Another day ... / mass shooting

[lawdog77]

At least one of them.

I mean, let's stop the dance. Either you think the proliferation of guns in the U.S. is not a problem and/or you believe there is nothing that can be done about it, or you believe the opposite of those two things.

Every data point available indicates that reducing the number of firearms reduces the number of firearm deaths. There are dozens of suggestions on how to reduce the number of firearms in the country, many on this site, as well as how to make society safer both for gun owners and the general populace. But instead of focusing on that, you want to narrow the discussion to a single case in order, it would appear, to argue that it is a bridge too far to enact reasonable gun legislation. In the meantime, another 40 people are going to be murdered with firearms today.

No, you are misinterpreting what I am saying. I believe the proliferation of guns is a serious problem, and there should be a solution. I was trying to focus on this case to see what happened  here. Either he used an illegal gun  or the laws are broken in Georgia that prohibits violent offenders from owning a gun. Heck, I would go as far as anything more than a speeding ticket=no gun.ownership, and your PO with the police  and your attorney can do random checks of your home for guns.Spend time doing tjat instead of writing speeding tickets.

[MU82]

Nice work not going into hypotheticals.

What? We clearly need more guns in America ... although I did learn today that we can all kill each other more efficiently with our fists!

[TSmith34, Inc.]

No, you are misinterpreting what I am saying. I believe the proliferation of guns is a serious problem, and there should be a solution. I was trying to focus on this case to see what happened  here. Either he used an illegal gun  or the laws are broken in Georgia that prohibits violent offenders from owning a gun. Heck, I would go as far as anything more than a speeding ticket=no gun.ownership, and your PO with the police  and your attorney can do random checks of your home for guns.Spend time doing tjat instead of writing speeding tickets.

Fair enough then, I apologize for misinterpreting where you were going.

[Jockey]

Guns are just good clean fun. It's especially charming how high speed bullets from assault rifles tear apart organs when they enter the body.

And, please, regarding earlier posts, let's not pretend violent felons don't have easy access to guns.

[JWags85]

Good thing we can keep every thread on topic and it doesn't dissolve into partisan screeching, hyperbole, and posts that add nothing to the discussion.  But I know I know "just don't read"

[lawdog77]

Guns are just good clean fun. It's especially charming how high speed bullets from assault rifles tear apart organs when they enter the body.

And, please, regarding earlier posts, let's not pretend violent felons don't have easy access to guns.

I don't think anyone has claimed they don't. That's part of the problem, I believe. Either individuals who should be felons, and therefore not allowed to buy guns legally, are given a lesser offense to expedite the courts, or there are too many legal guns (mass purchased at gun shows with no background check) being sold to felons.

If we were to try to have a serious discussion here, every gun needs to be registered. If you are convicted of certain level of crime, the courts can come into your home and take away your guns. Bullets cannot be bought without showing proof of a registered handgun. No need to have any type of assault rifles. Mandatory life sentences for committing a crime with a gun.

[Jockey]

I don't think anyone has claimed they don't. That's part of the problem, I believe. Either individuals who should be felons, and therefore not allowed to buy guns legally, are given a lesser offense to expedite the courts, or there are too many legal guns (mass purchased at gun shows with no background check) being sold to felons.

If we were to try to have a serious discussion here, every gun needs to be registered. If you are convicted of certain level of crime, the courts can come into your home and take away your guns. Bullets cannot be bought without showing proof of a registered handgun. No need to have any type of assault rifles. Mandatory life sentences for committing a crime with a gun.

I think we agree other than the last point. Although there should be a minimum mandatory sentence that gets added onto the sentence for the crime.

[lawdog77]

Fair enough then, I apologize for misinterpreting where you were going.

No worries. I misinterpret stuff all the time, and I am not always the most clear on my points.

[Billy Hoyle]

I don't think anyone has claimed they don't. That's part of the problem, I believe. Either individuals who should be felons, and therefore not allowed to buy guns legally, are given a lesser offense to expedite the courts, or there are too many legal guns (mass purchased at gun shows with no background check) being sold to felons.

If we were to try to have a serious discussion here, every gun needs to be registered. If you are convicted of certain level of crime, the courts can come into your home and take away your guns. Bullets cannot be bought without showing proof of a registered handgun. No need to have any type of assault rifles. Mandatory life sentences for committing a crime with a gun.

I'm going to add one more layer: liability if your gun is found to have been used in the commission of a crime or confiscated from someone other than you.

[Pakuni]

I'm going to add one more layer: liability if your gun is found to have been used in the commission of a crime or confiscated from someone other than you.

What if your gun was stolen? And what kind of liability? Civil? Criminal? Would I be charged with a crime if a criminal steals my gun and gets arrested holding up a liquor store two hours later?

At the end of the day, we can propose all the reasonable restrictions we want, but as long as the vastly oversized influence of the NRA exists in American politics, nothing is going to change.

[MU82]

Since Walt Disney World reopened from its Covid closure, 14 people have been caught trying to enter with guns.

Cuz nuthin says "Happiest Place On Earth" better than a loaded Glock!

[JWags85]

What if your gun was stolen? And what kind of liability? Civil? Criminal? Would I be charged with a crime if a criminal steals my gun and gets arrested holding up a liquor store two hours later?

I think a critical element of responsible gun ownership would be knowing where your gun/guns were at all times and reporting them lost or stolen ASAP.  If you don't, and something happens with your gun, tough

[lawdog77]

What if your gun was stolen? And what kind of liability? Civil? Criminal? Would I be charged with a crime if a criminal steals my gun and gets arrested holding up a liquor store two hours later?

At the end of the day, we can propose all the reasonable restrictions we want, but as long as the vastly oversized influence of the NRA exists in American politics, nothing is going to change.

I've always been told the NRA was a GOP thing. Now's the time to test that theory.

[Billy Hoyle]

What if your gun was stolen? And what kind of liability? Civil? Criminal? Would I be charged with a crime if a criminal steals my gun and gets arrested holding up a liquor store two hours later?

At the end of the day, we can propose all the reasonable restrictions we want, but as long as the vastly oversized influence of the NRA exists in American politics, nothing is going to change.

definitely something to think about. That's where proper storage comes into effect. If it's stolen, report it. Of course, one could falsely report a gun stolen.

I got thinking about this after reading that 95% of guns confiscated in Chicago are not registered to the individual to whom it was registered or sold to. That would crackdown on strawman buyers.

It's not perfect but a start.

[Pakuni]

I think a critical element of responsible gun ownership would be knowing where your gun/guns were at all times and reporting them lost or stolen ASAP.  If you don't, and something happens with your gun, tough

Hmmm. I just don't think it's feasible, at least not criminally. A civil suit alleging negligence, sure, but that already can be done. Most criminal law - especially if alleging culpability for the behavior of another - requires some knowledge of criminal intent.

[JWags85]

Hmmm. I just don't think it's feasible, at least not criminally. A civil suit alleging negligence, sure, but that already can be done. Most criminal law - especially if alleging culpability for the behavior of another - requires some knowledge of criminal intent.

What's the consequences or procedure if the same happens with a car that is not reported stolen?

[tower912]

Locks on every new gun sold.  Make it like unlocking your phone.   It takes a swipe and 6 numbers before you can fire.   As many hours of training and classes as are required to drive a car.    Serial numbers on every bullet.  Raise the taxes on it like they did on tobacco products.   Make it an obscenely expensive obsession.    Quit selling guns at retail stores.   Only through state run outlets, like they do alcohol in some states.   Have no product on site.  So the processes have to be observed in order to get a very expensive mechanism of death in 7-10 days.    And the guns come from heavily guarded vaults to cut down on break-ins.

You can still belong to the gun cult, errrrr, get to enjoy your second amendment rights.   But you pay a lot of money to participate and you have to observe all of the rules.

[Pakuni]

What's the consequences or procedure if the same happens with a car that is not reported stolen?

None. There's no legal obligation to report your car stolen, or to do anything to prevent its theft.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Locks on every new gun sold.  Make it like unlocking your phone.   It takes a swipe and 6 numbers before you can fire.   As many hours of training and classes as are required to drive a car.    Serial numbers on every bullet.  Raise the taxes on it like they did on tobacco products.   Make it an obscenely expensive obsession.    Quit selling guns at retail stores.   Only through state run outlets, like they do alcohol in some states.   Have no product on site.  So the processes have to be observed in order to get a very expensive mechanism of death in 7-10 days.    And the guns come from heavily guarded vaults to cut down on break-ins.

You can still belong to the gun cult, errrrr, get to enjoy your second amendment rights.   But you pay a lot of money to participate and you have to observe all of the rules.

The latest trend in getting your drivers license is to either have the driver training school sign off on your license or have the parent just sign off that the kid is ready to drive.  Just sayin.

[tower912]

That's dumb, too.

[MU82]

The latest trend in getting your drivers license is to either have the driver training school sign off on your license or have the parent just sign off that the kid is ready to drive.  Just sayin.

Wasn't that a Covid thing, Zig? I think that's how they framed it in NC, anyway.

And as tower said ... dumb.

[Galway Eagle]

The latest trend in getting your drivers license is to either have the driver training school sign off on your license or have the parent just sign off that the kid is ready to drive.  Just sayin.

There's been parents skirting the rules on that stuff for years. My best friend maybe did 10hours overall. I wouldn't say it's the trend so much as there's always holes people will find.

[Billy Hoyle]

Locks on every new gun sold.  Make it like unlocking your phone.   It takes a swipe and 6 numbers before you can fire.   As many hours of training and classes as are required to drive a car.    Serial numbers on every bullet.  Raise the taxes on it like they did on tobacco products.   Make it an obscenely expensive obsession.    Quit selling guns at retail stores.   Only through state run outlets, like they do alcohol in some states.   Have no product on site.  So the processes have to be observed in order to get a very expensive mechanism of death in 7-10 days.    And the guns come from heavily guarded vaults to cut down on break-ins.

You can still belong to the gun cult, errrrr, get to enjoy your second amendment rights.   But you pay a lot of money to participate and you have to observe all of the rules.

you're from MI, right? And you went to college in WI, correct? Are hunters who use shotguns a cult?

[tower912]

    Make them go through training, heavily tax guns and ammo.     And locks for their long guns.    Just like everybody else.   

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Wasn't that a Covid thing, Zig? I think that's how they framed it in NC, anyway.

And as tower said ... dumb.

Started out that way. But states are passing laws making that permanent.