The Hey its 2021 now guys MLB thread

[TSmith34, Inc.]

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/77a8f657-8365-485f-b028-ad941012f8f6

Was just going to say, did he learn nothing from Bull Durham?

[Uncle Rico]

I like Ashby a ton, who wouldn’t with his stuff.  I just think there needs to be a lot of caution assuming he’ll be a reliable, high leverage guy in postseason. That’s  what I’m trying to argue here. He’s 23, with all of 12 appearances in the big leagues, and didn’t perform well in a high leverage situation a week ago today against another playoff team in a game that was still important at the time for both teams.   High leverage spots in the regular season is hard, multiply that for postseason.

Those are fair and valid concerns.  A lot of guys didn’t perform against the Cardinals the last 3 weeks, too.  I doubt Ashby is the 8th inning guy all of a sudden but I’ll trust what Counsell does either way

[shoothoops]

shoothoops, degies.......

We got room on the bandwagon brothers!   

The Cardinals went 19-3 after this post. If only you had picked New York or L.A. or somewhere else I’ve lived. But from the looks of the posts the past few months while I haven’t been around, and really, the past 15 years here for some, The Stl remains pretty popular I have nothing against Dgies, but we don’t post the same, and we’d likely disagree on many things related to Stl or the Cardinals.

Before the season I posted that I thought the Cardinals would be a team in the mix in the NL Central, but they needed to add some pieces. (They didn’t). Before the season I posted to little interest that Kolten Wong was a good pickup for the Brewers with his GG defense and pop at the plate in a more hitter friendly place. He was. (The Cardinals wanted to play Edman there for. year before Nolan Gorman plays there.)

During the season I posted to explain their thought process behind a few starting pitching acquisitions (and relief) whether or not they would work remained to be seen. They were within 2nd WC reach, they needed to bridge a starting pitching gap due to injuries, and, they don’t tank as an organizational philosophy. They had used a dozen different starting pitchers because of it. It worked for them as Lester and Happ each had about 8 of 10, 9 of 11 good starts with an E.R.A. in the 2’s in those good starts. Part of it is being open to change as Lester was for example. He changed pitch selection and pitch sequence. He loves 4 seam fastballs, but, he was willing to throw changeups and sinkers earlier in the count. It worked for him. The Brewers had similar success with a different type of pitcher, Strickland.

How did they do it? It’s never one thing. But quality starts is a good place to start. Their record with and without it is eye poppingly different. Getting that while having a league best defense (even w/o Wong) helped. Adding two reliable relievers (Garcia, McFarland) to bullpen depth helped. Timely hitting helped. They have been successful in key hitting situations. And, some players had their luck even out a bit. Goldschmidt for example had less success earlier in he season even though his exit velocity, and all of those modern day hitting stats were in his favor. He’s raised his OPS every month of the season. (Lots of warm weather hitters on Stl). They now have a big 3 of hitters.

All of that “only” gets them in the playoffs as a 2nd WC. That’s because they weren’t very good earlier in the season. But historically the Cardinals have often been one of baseball’s best teams later in the season. Since 1985 the Cardinals have had 4 100 plus win teams, a dozen 90 plus win teams, etc…but the two of those playoff teams that won the WS were a WC team (2011) and an 83 win regular season team.(2006) A long 162 game regular season, and, short best of 7 playoff series are two different things.

And, if the Cardinals play the Dodgers and face Max Scherzer it will illustrate an additional point. There is some thought that when Uncle Walt and TLR ran the Cardinals, they would push ownership to take a good team and try to add to make it a great team. And, that post that era, and in the “MO” era, the (uneven) drafting and player development philosophy has been more about building teams to contend for NL Central and get in to the playoff mix. (more Tyler O’Neill’s and Dylan Carlson’s)  Some would suggest the middle. Anyway, Max Scherzer has dominated the Cardinals in recent years ever since they chose not to sign him long term in 2015, when he wanted to play for his home town team. (Cards  have had more success vs Kershaw historically, and even Buehler lately) They felt they were good enough w/o him and the cost was 7 years, $210 Million. The Cardinals won 100 games that year. But it was short sighted by the Cardinals as Scherzer has out performed his contract. (it’s all relative as we are talking big money here) So Max will be jacked up even more than normal if possible, if that happens.

The Cardinals would rather be in a different position, and they didn’t do enough before the season to do that, but, they are once again, in the mix.

The Brewers did a good job with player acquisition and building their team.
 

[Uncle Rico]

The Cardinals went 19-3 after this post. If only you had picked New York or L.A. or somewhere else I’ve lived. But from the looks of the posts the past few months while I haven’t been around, and really, the past 15 years here for some, The Stl remains pretty popular I have nothing against Dgies, but we don’t post the same, and we’d likely disagree on many things related to Stl or the Cardinals.

Before the season I posted that I thought the Cardinals would be a team in the mix in the NL Central, but they needed to add some pieces. (They didn’t). Before the season I posted to little interest that Kolten Wong was a good pickup for the Brewers with his GG defense and pop at the plate in a more hitter friendly place. He was. (The Cardinals wanted to play Edman there for. year before Nolan Gorman plays there.)

During the season I posted to explain their thought process behind a few starting pitching acquisitions (and relief) whether or not they would work remained to be seen. They were within 2nd WC reach, they needed to bridge a starting pitching gap due to injuries, and, they don’t tank as an organizational philosophy. They had used a dozen different starting pitchers because of it. It worked for them as Lester and Happ each had about 8 of 10, 9 of 11 good starts with an E.R.A. in the 2’s in those good starts. Part of it is being open to change as Lester was for example. He changed pitch selection and pitch sequence. He loves 4 seam fastballs, but, he was willing to throw changeups and sinkers earlier in the count. It worked for him. The Brewers had similar success with a different type of pitcher, Strickland.

How did they do it? It’s never one thing. But quality starts is a good place to start. Their record with and without it is eye poppingly different. Getting that while having a league best defense (even w/o Wong) helped. Adding two reliable relievers (Garcia, McFarland) to bullpen depth helped. Timely hitting helped. They have been successful in key hitting situations. And, some players had their luck even out a bit. Goldschmidt for example had less success earlier in he season even though his exit velocity, and all of those modern day hitting stats were in his favor. He’s raised his OPS every month of the season. (Lots of warm weather hitters on Stl). They now have a big 3 of hitters.

All of that “only” gets them in the playoffs as a 2nd WC. That’s because they weren’t very good earlier in the season. But historically the Cardinals have often been one of baseball’s best teams later in the season. Since 1985 the Cardinals have had 4 100 plus win teams, a dozen 90 plus win teams, etc…but the two of those playoff teams that won the WS were a WC team (2011) and an 83 win regular season team.(2006) A long 162 game regular season, and, short best of 7 playoff series are two different things.

And, if the Cardinals play the Dodgers and face Max Scherzer it will illustrate an additional point. There is some thought that when Uncle Walt and TLR ran the Cardinals, they would push ownership to take a good team and try to add to make it a great team. And, that post that era, and in the “MO” era, the (uneven) drafting and player development philosophy has been more about building teams to contend for NL Central and get in to the playoff mix. (more Tyler O’Neill’s and Dylan Carlson’s)  Some would suggest the middle. Anyway, Max Scherzer has dominated the Cardinals in recent years ever since they chose not to sign him long term in 2015, when he wanted to play for his home town team. (Cards  have had more success vs Kershaw historically, and even Buehler lately) They felt they were good enough w/o him and the cost was 7 years, $210 Million. The Cardinals won 100 games that year. But it was short sighted by the Cardinals as Scherzer has out performed his contract. (it’s all relative as we are talking big money here) So Max will be jacked up even more than normal if possible, if that happens.

The Cardinals would rather be in a different position, and they didn’t do enough before the season to do that, but, they are once again, in the mix.

The Brewers did a good job with player acquisition and building their team.

Molina sucks

[wadesworld]

The Cardinals went 19-3 after this post. If only you had picked New York or L.A. or somewhere else I’ve lived. But from the looks of the posts the past few months while I haven’t been around, and really, the past 15 years here for some, The Stl remains pretty popular I have nothing against Dgies, but we don’t post the same, and we’d likely disagree on many things related to Stl or the Cardinals.

Before the season I posted that I thought the Cardinals would be a team in the mix in the NL Central, but they needed to add some pieces. (They didn’t). Before the season I posted to little interest that Kolten Wong was a good pickup for the Brewers with his GG defense and pop at the plate in a more hitter friendly place. He was. (The Cardinals wanted to play Edman there for. year before Nolan Gorman plays there.)

During the season I posted to explain their thought process behind a few starting pitching acquisitions (and relief) whether or not they would work remained to be seen. They were within 2nd WC reach, they needed to bridge a starting pitching gap due to injuries, and, they don’t tank as an organizational philosophy. They had used a dozen different starting pitchers because of it. It worked for them as Lester and Happ each had about 8 of 10, 9 of 11 good starts with an E.R.A. in the 2’s in those good starts. Part of it is being open to change as Lester was for example. He changed pitch selection and pitch sequence. He loves 4 seam fastballs, but, he was willing to throw changeups and sinkers earlier in the count. It worked for him. The Brewers had similar success with a different type of pitcher, Strickland.

How did they do it? It’s never one thing. But quality starts is a good place to start. Their record with and without it is eye poppingly different. Getting that while having a league best defense (even w/o Wong) helped. Adding two reliable relievers (Garcia, McFarland) to bullpen depth helped. Timely hitting helped. They have been successful in key hitting situations. And, some players had their luck even out a bit. Goldschmidt for example had less success earlier in he season even though his exit velocity, and all of those modern day hitting stats were in his favor. He’s raised his OPS every month of the season. (Lots of warm weather hitters on Stl). They now have a big 3 of hitters.

All of that “only” gets them in the playoffs as a 2nd WC. That’s because they weren’t very good earlier in the season. But historically the Cardinals have often been one of baseball’s best teams later in the season. Since 1985 the Cardinals have had 4 100 plus win teams, a dozen 90 plus win teams, etc…but the two of those playoff teams that won the WS were a WC team (2011) and an 83 win regular season team.(2006) A long 162 game regular season, and, short best of 7 playoff series are two different things.

And, if the Cardinals play the Dodgers and face Max Scherzer it will illustrate an additional point. There is some thought that when Uncle Walt and TLR ran the Cardinals, they would push ownership to take a good team and try to add to make it a great team. And, that post that era, and in the “MO” era, the (uneven) drafting and player development philosophy has been more about building teams to contend for NL Central and get in to the playoff mix. (more Tyler O’Neill’s and Dylan Carlson’s)  Some would suggest the middle. Anyway, Max Scherzer has dominated the Cardinals in recent years ever since they chose not to sign him long term in 2015, when he wanted to play for his home town team. (Cards  have had more success vs Kershaw historically, and even Buehler lately) They felt they were good enough w/o him and the cost was 7 years, $210 Million. The Cardinals won 100 games that year. But it was short sighted by the Cardinals as Scherzer has out performed his contract. (it’s all relative as we are talking big money here) So Max will be jacked up even more than normal if possible, if that happens.

The Cardinals would rather be in a different position, and they didn’t do enough before the season to do that, but, they are once again, in the mix.

The Brewers did a good job with player acquisition and building their team.

19-3 since the post...and still 7 games back of the Brewers.

[Its DJOver]

Does that Scherzer performance last night make the Cy Young Corbin's to lose?

[dgies9156]

I have nothing against Dgies, but we don’t post the same, and we’d likely disagree on many things related to Stl or the Cardinals.

Strange as it may seem in here, you can disagree with me without disliking me.

[shoothoops]

Strange as it may seem in here, you can disagree with me without disliking me.

Right. That's why prefaced with that. And, I'm sure depending on the subtopic, I'm sure there would be some agreement mixed in as well.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

The Cardinals went 19-3 after this post. If only you had picked New York or L.A. or somewhere else I’ve lived. But from the looks of the posts the past few months while I haven’t been around, and really, the past 15 years here for some, The Stl remains pretty popular I have nothing against Dgies, but we don’t post the same, and we’d likely disagree on many things related to Stl or the Cardinals.

Before the season I posted that I thought the Cardinals would be a team in the mix in the NL Central, but they needed to add some pieces. (They didn’t). Before the season I posted to little interest that Kolten Wong was a good pickup for the Brewers with his GG defense and pop at the plate in a more hitter friendly place. He was. (The Cardinals wanted to play Edman there for. year before Nolan Gorman plays there.)

During the season I posted to explain their thought process behind a few starting pitching acquisitions (and relief) whether or not they would work remained to be seen. They were within 2nd WC reach, they needed to bridge a starting pitching gap due to injuries, and, they don’t tank as an organizational philosophy. They had used a dozen different starting pitchers because of it. It worked for them as Lester and Happ each had about 8 of 10, 9 of 11 good starts with an E.R.A. in the 2’s in those good starts. Part of it is being open to change as Lester was for example. He changed pitch selection and pitch sequence. He loves 4 seam fastballs, but, he was willing to throw changeups and sinkers earlier in the count. It worked for him. The Brewers had similar success with a different type of pitcher, Strickland.

How did they do it? It’s never one thing. But quality starts is a good place to start. Their record with and without it is eye poppingly different. Getting that while having a league best defense (even w/o Wong) helped. Adding two reliable relievers (Garcia, McFarland) to bullpen depth helped. Timely hitting helped. They have been successful in key hitting situations. And, some players had their luck even out a bit. Goldschmidt for example had less success earlier in he season even though his exit velocity, and all of those modern day hitting stats were in his favor. He’s raised his OPS every month of the season. (Lots of warm weather hitters on Stl). They now have a big 3 of hitters.

All of that “only” gets them in the playoffs as a 2nd WC. That’s because they weren’t very good earlier in the season. But historically the Cardinals have often been one of baseball’s best teams later in the season. Since 1985 the Cardinals have had 4 100 plus win teams, a dozen 90 plus win teams, etc…but the two of those playoff teams that won the WS were a WC team (2011) and an 83 win regular season team.(2006) A long 162 game regular season, and, short best of 7 playoff series are two different things.

And, if the Cardinals play the Dodgers and face Max Scherzer it will illustrate an additional point. There is some thought that when Uncle Walt and TLR ran the Cardinals, they would push ownership to take a good team and try to add to make it a great team. And, that post that era, and in the “MO” era, the (uneven) drafting and player development philosophy has been more about building teams to contend for NL Central and get in to the playoff mix. (more Tyler O’Neill’s and Dylan Carlson’s)  Some would suggest the middle. Anyway, Max Scherzer has dominated the Cardinals in recent years ever since they chose not to sign him long term in 2015, when he wanted to play for his home town team. (Cards  have had more success vs Kershaw historically, and even Buehler lately) They felt they were good enough w/o him and the cost was 7 years, $210 Million. The Cardinals won 100 games that year. But it was short sighted by the Cardinals as Scherzer has out performed his contract. (it’s all relative as we are talking big money here) So Max will be jacked up even more than normal if possible, if that happens.

The Cardinals would rather be in a different position, and they didn’t do enough before the season to do that, but, they are once again, in the mix.

The Brewers did a good job with player acquisition and building their team.

Are you Charlie Brown's teacher?

[Jockey]

You said he’s been “incredibly consistent” since his MLB debut.  I pointed out that isn’t accurate with evidence not even a week old.

So now you’re just being obtuse, or you’re incapable of following an argument. 

Have a lovely night Jockey.

One outing in which the pitcher gives up 2 runs absolutely does not mean a pitcher is inconsistent. You need to learn a bit more about the game of baseball.

[DegenerateDish]

Red Sox open the season getting swept by Baltimore, and now lose two of three to the Birds here at the end.

That’s no bueno.

[HouWarrior]

Red Sox open the season getting swept by Baltimore, and now lose two of three to the Birds here at the end.

That’s no bueno.

You are White Soxer, right?

Astros clinched tonight.
Homefield vs White Sox still to be decided.

This should be good series. Mutual respect here, I trust.

.. but the sting of watching the choke of our 2005 NL Astros lose to Wsox in WS 0-4 lingers. (Its a bit singular unfair to them,  but on the numbers, HOFers Bagwell and Biggio career underperformed  in all their playoff games)

..so 2021....its our turn ok?

[DegenerateDish]

You are White Soxer, right?

Astros clinched tonight.
Homefield vs White Sox still to be decided.

This should be good series. Mutual respect here, I trust.

.. but the sting of watching the choke of our 2005 NL Astros lose to Wsox in WS 0-4 lingers. (Its a bit singular unfair to them,  but on the numbers, HOFers Bagwell and Biggio career underperformed  in all their playoff games)

..so 2021....its our turn ok?

As a White Sox fan, I’m much more nervous than excited to be playing Houston. I think either Houston sweeps, or it goes 5. Houston typically hits Lance Lynn well. The Sox true lineup has only played together in the same lineup like 6 times this season, and they’ll all finally be together for the playoffs. My fingers are crossed, but I expect Houston to be a very tough out.

[MU82]

Red Sox open the season getting swept by Baltimore, and now lose two of three to the Birds here at the end.

I can just imagine the Red Sox losing on the final day on a bad call or something and then blaming the umps for them not making the playoffs.

When actually they should only blame themselves for losing twice to a Triple-A team.

[Billy Hoyle]

so since there is a lot of Cardinals talk here...is Wainwright a Hall of Famer considering the evolution of the starter position (watch the 1986 Mets 30 for 30 and seeing starters regularly go the distance in those days shows how different it is now), or would he need to get to 200 wins? Injuries pretty much took away three seasons and in 2006 he was a set up man (and lights out closer in the playoffs. His bender to freeze Beltran killed the Mets for a few years).

[Uncle Rico]

so since there is a lot of Cardinals talk here...is Wainwright a Hall of Famer considering the evolution of the starter position (watch the 1986 Mets 30 for 30 and seeing starters regularly go the distance in those days shows how different it is now), or would he need to get to 200 wins? Injuries pretty much took away three seasons and in 2006 he was a set up man (and lights out closer in the playoffs. His bender to freeze Beltran killed the Mets for a few years).

Only way he gets into cooperstown is with a ticket

[MU82]

I find myself rooting for Dusty Baker. He's done such a great job in so many difficult situations, and he has the incredible ability to make a team believe in itself and in each other. Yet, he's had precious little postseason success, and ultimately that's how any manager or coach is judged.

Maybe this year, with most of the attention being focused elsewhere, it will finally be his turn.

[DegenerateDish]

Mariners get a leadoff triple in the 7th, down 1 in an absolute must win game.

Never put the ball in play, walk, K, K, K, inning over.

Brutal.

And yes, I want a 4 way tie for the AL wild card.

[shoothoops]

so since there is a lot of Cardinals talk here...is Wainwright a Hall of Famer considering the evolution of the starter position (watch the 1986 Mets 30 for 30 and seeing starters regularly go the distance in those days shows how different it is now), or would he need to get to 200 wins? Injuries pretty much took away three seasons and in 2006 he was a set up man (and lights out closer in the playoffs. His bender to freeze Beltran killed the Mets for a few years).

Re:Wainwright.

You aren’t likely to get many objective responses here. The short answer is Adam has a good chance, yes. Is he going to get in as quickly as the Pujols and Molina? Probably not.

Adam has had a strong beginning, middle, and end to his career which helps his chances. He had a few untimely injuries right in the middle of his 4 top 3 or better CY Young seasons.

2009 (Tim Lincecum) 2010 Cy (Halladay), 2011 missed season with Tommy John Surgery. (Kershaw) 2014 (Kershaw) 2015 missed season with torn achilles. Adam is 1st in Cy Young shares of players to not have won the award.

Obviously he’s been a good post season pitcher as well, in 28 games, WS Titles etc..and he has a lot of intangibles. New Yorkers still talk about his 2006 strikeout of Beltran to clinch the pennant. He’s easily the most liked Cardinal by media, other teams, coaches, etc..and that won’t hurt his case with some.

He’s right at the number (might just miss) having 5 sub 3 E.R.A. seasons with 200 innings. Only Kershaw and Scherzer have done that in his era.

Instead of throwing too many cutters, especially early in the game, Adam figured out in recent years to throw your best pitch early and often. (Curveball) along with a sinker. Defense helps. The past 3 seasons the Cardinals have been among the league’s best defenses, while being among the worst the couple of seasons prior. And his numbers in part reflect that.

Even back in the day Adam wasn’t throwing 4 seam, high spin, top of zone stuff to get K’s. That isn’t how he pitched, and it wasn’t a Dave Duncan philosophy at the time, (pitch to contact).

But he reached 2000 K’s this season. And he has a chance for 200 wins next season. And he has several of those other stat padders such as leading the league in wins, shutouts, innings pitched, complete games, Silver Slugger, All Star appearances etc…

There are 15 pitchers in the MLB HOF with a worse bWAR than Adam.

So, Waino will certainly be in the discussion when he is finished. He re-signed for next season, (not necessarily his last.) We’ll see.

[🏀]

Wainwright belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

[Uncle Rico]

Wainwright belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

Wainwright makes the Hall of Fame?  Then close it down and end the sport.

[🏀]

Wainwright makes the Hall of Fame?  Then close it down and end the sport.

Not my Hall of Fame.

[Uncle Rico]

Not my Hall of Fame.

Not any Hall of Fame

[🏀]

Not any Hall of Fame

The Cardinals Hall of Fame?

[Uncle Rico]

The Cardinals Hall of Fame?

I’m sure he’ll be in that.  They put anyone in, excellence be damned