The Hey its 2021 now guys MLB thread

[shoothoops]

Hearing about losers isn't particularly of interest to most in this thread.  But I'll throw a few things out since you asked.

What's happening with Rafael Ortega is incredible right now.  I doubt he keeps it up, and  unlikely he gets a roster spot next year.  But if he does keep it up, that's amazing.

In the end, super impressed with what the Cubs got for some rental players.  Based on what I see in the NL central, they're fairly well positioned for so .500ish year next year, pending offseason moves.  And lots of talent in the pipe for 2024, 2025.

But honestly, we should all just be happy for the crew this year., They're getting it done, even if a WS title is a long shot.

That’s great. Still a bit vague and generalized, but that’s great. But this isn’t what you posted about over and over again. You posted about two Cardinal players. The topic originally was cost of the players which I answered specifically. (Lester’s money is mostly a Nationals paid signing bonus. The Twins are paying Stl cash to take Happ.)

Again with the losers thing. as I’ve said, I’ve been very fortunate from playing, coaching, and a from fan standpoint in sports. Take the Cardinals for example, I’m sure their team, organization, fans etc would like to win every game every year. But I’m sure they would also say they’ve done okay.

There’s so much more to the Olympics than whomever wins the gold medal. The athletes that don’t win one aren’t losers.

Did you see the video of the two high jumpers choosing to share the Gold Medal instead of a tie breaking jump? Qatar and Italy?

https://twitter.com/nbcolympics/status/1421923479805386756?s=21

And it doesn’t just have to be the Olympics.

How can you not be thrilled for Brandon Nakashima this weekend? 89th in the World EIGHTY-NINE. Tremendous. Back to back ATP Tourney Finals Runner Up. Wish him a happy birthday tomorrow. He turns 20.

[wadesworld]

Keefer would have a field day with some HR departments if he was following this thread.

Where is that guy, anyway?

[cheebs09]

Cardinals fun are a funny bunch.

I have a certain perception of Cardinals fans. I enjoy encounters that reinforce that perception.

ETA: Brewers

[Uncle Rico]

Katie has always had a good sense of humor. Did you happen to read the first reply to her tweet? Well look right here, it’s from Katie herself, and, she was kind of enough to provide link to the article that explains why they made those trades.

Here ya go:

https://twitter.com/katiejwoo/status/1422240785664249860?s=21

I sometimes to forget to ask posters the question, Cubs or Brewers? Maybe just put in your posts to make it easier, thanks.

Luckily for the rest of the world, Cardinals fans make it easy to identify them

[dgies9156]

I have a certain perception of Cardinals fans. I enjoy encounters that reinforce that perception.

ETA: Brewers

EXCUSE ME!!!!!!

Here's reality -- Cardinal fans expect to win. 12 World Series and a boatload of NL pennants get ya a little spoiled. The "blow the roster up" move that the Cubs made this week would never be tolerated in St. Louis. Ever.

As to Brother Shoot's comments, the probability this year's Cardinal team makes the playoffs is about the same as me making an NBA roster this fall -- 0. They're just not going to do it, so as Brother Shoot pointed out, why blow up some young prospects for a very, very long shot chance at facing Los Angeles in a winner-take-all playoff. Add to that that the Cardinals were burned trading Luke Voit to New York, Sandy Alcantara to Miami or Randy Arozarena to Tampa Bay and you have a conservative, stand-pat management.

The Cardinals had a lot of injuries this year. That's part of the game and it's on management to have a strong enough roster to compensate. In 1967 (ancient history, I know, but significant), Bob Gibson went down with a hairline fracture of his right leg due to a line drive by Roberto Clemente. A young Steve Carlton, Nelson Briles and Dick Hughes picked up and carried the team until late August, when Gibson returned. That did not happen this year when Flaherty and Dakota Hudson went down, so the Cardinals never got off the ground.

I'm happy for the Brewers and their fans. Good franchise, down-to-earth good baseball fans. I'm always welcome in red when I visit CouMilAmFam Park. They're knowledgeable and fun to be around.

[jficke13]

Again I don't think the last three pages of this thread about the Cards' deadline moves (or lack of moves) would exist if it weren't for the fact that one person drops massive walls of text to defend those moves.

Honestly, if it were "odds of making the playoffs are zero, they don't do the full tear down thing, they have good prospects and there's no need to pull a Marlins so they held pat" everyone would be like "yep, sounds about right."

But since the teeniest, tiniest, tweak of the cardinal beak sends one person into murder mode, surprise surprise people tweak him.

[tower912]

Again I don't think the last three pages of this thread about the Cards' deadline moves (or lack of moves) would exist if it weren't for the fact that one person drops massive walls of text to defend those moves.

Honestly, if it were "odds of making the playoffs are zero, they don't do the full tear down thing, they have good prospects and there's no need to pull a Marlins so they held pat" everyone would be like "yep, sounds about right."

But since the teeniest, tiniest, tweak of the cardinal beak sends one person into CHICO'Smode, surprise surprise people tweak him.

fify

[jficke13]

On the "hopefully Axford eats a couple innings during the Covid outbreak" front... well Hader just landed on the Covid list.

[shoothoops]

Again I don't think the last three pages of this thread about the Cards' deadline moves (or lack of moves) would exist if it weren't for the fact that one person drops massive walls of text to defend those moves.

Honestly, if it were "odds of making the playoffs are zero, they don't do the full tear down thing, they have good prospects and there's no need to pull a Marlins so they held pat" everyone would be like "yep, sounds about right."

But since the teeniest, tiniest, tweak of the cardinal beak sends one person into murder mode, surprise surprise people tweak him.

But I didn’t defend their moves. I explained their specific moves to someone else who brought that up specifically first. There’s a difference. Some others understood them. And I even asked for specific alternative suggestions. I also referenced their off season before this season even started let alone the past few days.

Some people see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear to reinforce their previously established opinions. Often times these are fanatics or fanatical people which I previously  spoke about.

Every team has good, bad, indifferent fans. Every city has good, bad, and indifferent aspects to it.

Ask yourself how many times you or some of the other like posters, post either positively or neutrally about St. Louis as a place, or one of its sports teams?

Clearly Chicago and Milwaukee, two other places I have live and spent time have good, bad, and indifferent aspects to their cities. And they have good, bad, and indifferent sports teams. I’m happy to discuss what I believe are some positive aspects of these places with anyone any time.

I post about many other places and things too. But there are two big differences:

1) Lots of other people also post about say…New York City or somewhere else I’ve lived or spent time. Many others others can and do provide back and forth discussion. This allows for more posts from various people, or not even needing to post if someone else is covering a topic. And much of those posts by all parties about a particular place are either neutral or positive. There are plenty of people here that can and do post about Milwaukee or Chicago for example.

2) Those get noticed less or have less polarizing reaction or long term traction because they are often not about either the tribal groups locales or, those they scapegoat.

Some people here have been scapegoating St. Louis as a place or its sports teams long before I ever cane here. What’s changed is having a poster that doesn’t do that. (just as I don’t about anywhere else)

I’ve seen the negative, critical posts. Where are yours and others positive and neutral posts about St. Louis as a place or its teams? I’ll wait.

When the discussion is about other professional sports or the Olympics or Nashville or L.A. or NYC or wherever the discussion is decidedly different. I wonder why that is. Anything short of being critical of St. Louis as a place isn’t going to be good enough for the fanatical tribe that scapegoats less supported groups. Some people don’t like being called out on it. Not hating St. Louis as a place or their sports teams, seems to bother some people a lot. That’s really not a me problem.

[Uncle Rico]

But I didn’t defend their moves. I explained their specific moves to someone else who brought that up specifically first. There’s a difference. Some others understood them. And I even asked for specific alternative suggestions. I also referenced their off season before this season even started let alone the past few days.

Some people see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear to reinforce their previously established opinions. Often times these are fanatics or fanatical people which I previously  spoke about.

Every team has good, bad, indifferent fans. Every city has good, bad, and indifferent aspects to it.

Ask yourself how many times you or some of the other like posters, post either positively or neutrally about St. Louis as a place, or one of its sports teams?

Clearly Chicago and Milwaukee, two other places I have live and spent time have good, bad, and indifferent aspects to their cities. And they have good, bad, and indifferent sports teams. I’m happy to discuss what I believe are some positive aspects of these places with anyone any time.

I post about many other places and things too. But there are two big differences:

1) Lots of other people also post about say…New York City or somewhere else I’ve lived or spent time. Many others others can and do provide back and forth discussion. This allows for more posts from various people, or not even needing to post if someone else is covering a topic. And much of those posts by all parties about a particular place are either neutral or positive. There are plenty of people here that can and do post about Milwaukee or Chicago for example.

2) Those get noticed less or have less polarizing reaction or long term traction because they are often not about either the tribal groups locales or, those they scapegoat.

Some people here have been scapegoating St. Louis as a place or its sports teams long before I ever cane here. What’s changed is having a poster that doesn’t do that. (just as I don’t about anywhere else)

I’ve seen the negative, critical posts. Where are yours and others positive and neutral posts about St. Louis as a place or its teams? I’ll wait.

When the discussion is about other professional sports or the Olympics or Nashville or L.A. or NYC or wherever the discussion is decidedly different. I wonder why that is. Anything short of being critical of St. Louis as a place isn’t going to be good enough for the fanatical tribe that scapegoats less supported groups. Some people don’t like being called out on it. Not hating St. Louis as a place or their sports teams, seems to bother some people a lot. That’s really not a me problem.

🙄

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Luckily for the rest of the world, Cardinals fans make it easy to identify them

They are all the same too.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I agree that it is different when St. Louis is discussed than when other cities are discussed on Scoop. What could that difference be? I feel like it should be obvious.

[cheebs09]

I agree that it is different when St. Louis is discussed than when other cities are discussed on Scoop. What could that difference be? Is it possible that it's the only city that has a poster willing to deflect every slight, real or perceived, aimed at said city or its occupants?

I’d say it’s half that and the makeup of this board being mostly Cubs and Brewers fans. I’m sure the SLU board makes fun of Milwaukee for inferior beer and fans that weirdly cling to a second place team from 1982. It’s kind of the nature of being a fan.

[shoothoops]

I agree that it is different when St. Louis is discussed than when other cities are discussed on Scoop. What could that difference be? Is it possible that it's the only city that has a poster willing to deflect every slight, real or perceived, aimed at said city or its occupants?

This has been going on long before I ever arrived. How could that be if it was because of me? Difficult to explain that one. Every place I’ve ever lived or been has had good bad and indifferent  aspects to it. Every team has had good, bad, indifferent fans.

It’s pretty interesting when every post is negative. One would imagine there would be a mix and balance of good, bad, indifferent posts from posters.

The current example is a good one. I spoke in neutral fashion to respond to someone else. That isn’t feeling slighted or defending. That’s you seeing what you want to see because the response wasn’t apparently negative enough to go along with the crowd.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This has been going on long before I ever arrived. How could that be if it was because of me? Difficult to explain that one.

It's actually easy to explain. It's not true.

[jficke13]

But I didn’t defend their moves. I explained their specific moves to someone else who brought that up specifically first. There’s a difference. Some others understood them. And I even asked for specific alternative suggestions. I also referenced their off season before this season even started let alone the past few days.

Some people see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear to reinforce their previously established opinions. Often times these are fanatics or fanatical people which I previously  spoke about.

Every team has good, bad, indifferent fans. Every city has good, bad, and indifferent aspects to it.

Ask yourself how many times you or some of the other like posters, post either positively or neutrally about St. Louis as a place, or one of its sports teams?

Clearly Chicago and Milwaukee, two other places I have live and spent time have good, bad, and indifferent aspects to their cities. And they have good, bad, and indifferent sports teams. I’m happy to discuss what I believe are some positive aspects of these places with anyone any time.

I post about many other places and things too. But there are two big differences:

1) Lots of other people also post about say…New York City or somewhere else I’ve lived or spent time. Many others others can and do provide back and forth discussion. This allows for more posts from various people, or not even needing to post if someone else is covering a topic. And much of those posts by all parties about a particular place are either neutral or positive. There are plenty of people here that can and do post about Milwaukee or Chicago for example.

2) Those get noticed less or have less polarizing reaction or long term traction because they are often not about either the tribal groups locales or, those they scapegoat.

Some people here have been scapegoating St. Louis as a place or its sports teams long before I ever cane here. What’s changed is having a poster that doesn’t do that. (just as I don’t about anywhere else)

I’ve seen the negative, critical posts. Where are yours and others positive and neutral posts about St. Louis as a place or its teams? I’ll wait.

When the discussion is about other professional sports or the Olympics or Nashville or L.A. or NYC or wherever the discussion is decidedly different. I wonder why that is. Anything short of being critical of St. Louis as a place isn’t going to be good enough for the fanatical tribe that scapegoats less supported groups. Some people don’t like being called out on it. Not hating St. Louis as a place or their sports teams, seems to bother some people a lot. That’s really not a me problem.

Buddy, you prove the point over, and over, and over again. It's honestly amazing.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It's actually easy to explain. It's not true.

Yep.

[shoothoops]

I’d say it’s half that and the makeup of this board being mostly Cubs and Brewers fans. I’m sure the SLU board makes fun of Milwaukee for inferior beer and fans that weirdly cling to a second place team from 1982. It’s kind of the nature of being a fan.

Part of it is some people have a tendency to say some things, and, to say them in certain way, in a place such as here, that perhaps they wouldn’t say the same way elsewhere.

I have some friends who may say strong or harsh things somewhere  like here about a team or place maybe even St. Louis. (Let’s say they are Cubs or Brewers fans) But they might not say those things in person to either those same people or others (unless they knew them or were friends with them and felt comfortable doing so).

I don’t really do all that. I actually like Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Louis, many other places. I don’t get a lot of posts aimed my way here about Milwaukee or Chicago. And there are plenty of people here that can and do cover those topics. It’s like threads, some I read, many I skip over, some I read and comment, some I read only, if I don’t think or feel I have anything to add.

And, I don’t really dislike a lot of places or teams. I’m pretty indifferent at worst. I just don’t have vitriol for Madison or Notre Dame. It just isn’t my thing. I can enjoy the games and rivalries just fine. I can want MUBB to win every time. But that’s as far as it goes often times.

If people pay attention I mention in threads the places to see or things to do or places to eat that I like in Milwaukee or Chicago. And I also point out things that can be improved with a St. Louis sports team or place.

[shoothoops]

It's actually easy to explain. It's not true.

Nah. People didn’t all of a sudden decide to dislike a city and its sports teams as a group because of me. To use Cheebs09’s post example, he referenced 1982. I wasn’t here in 1982.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Nah. People didn’t all of a sudden decide to dislike a city and its sports teams as a group because of me. To use Cheebs09’s post example, he referenced 1982. I wasn’t here in 1982.

I never said that. Of course people on this site dislike cities and their sports teams and make comments about them, both fair and unfair.  It's just not unique to St. Louis.

[WI_Inferiority_Complexes1]

On the "hopefully Axford eats a couple innings during the Covid outbreak" front... well Hader just landed on the Covid list.

I have been leading my roto fantasy league by a hair for months. I have the RP trio of I. Kennedy (who was traded to PHI but should still get at least as many saves as we would’ve in TEX) Barnes in BOS, and Kimbrel.

I just dropped my “streaming” SP to pick up Devin Williams, who will hopefully get saves the next 10 days or so.

[shoothoops]

I never said that. Of course people on this site dislike cities and their sports teams and make comments about them, both fair and unfair.  It's just not unique to St. Louis.

Gotcha. I think there is a misunderstanding as to what I said or meant. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I am saying that when I do see comments about St. Louis, they don’t seem to be balanced between neutral, negative, positive from some to many.

I’ll give you an example. Dgies is a Cards fan. And sometimes he will post about the Cardinals before a season saying they will go 162-0 or whatever. If and when I’ve seen that (you can go look) I point out that he may be over optimistic and that they might need to add this or that, or that they don’t have enough this or that. etc…

His post in the example was a positive post. My reply wasn’t as positive. This has happened before multiple times.

Or, someone could post more neutral and there would be a wide range back and forth constructive discussion that eventually fizzles out.

If an initial post is negative every time or close to it, it has less of a chance to be a positive, neutral, negative balance of any kind.

It’s really less about St. Louis than it is about less supported groups places people or things.

There are many Cubs and Brewers fans here. It’s a pretty high percentage here. As I said I’ve lived in all 3 places. It’s not the first time I have seen this. There are good bad and indifferent Cardinals fans just as there are good bad and indifferent Cubs and Brewers fans.

This doesn’t come up as often (or at all) when I am in New York City or L.A. And I am sure if any of these Cubs or Cardinals fans lived in St. Louis, I’m sure it would be a bit different for some of them.

I’m not going to either start threads or make posts speaking negatively 100% of the time or close to it about a place or team in Milwaukee or Chicago, just as I wouldn’t with St. Louis. It’s as though some people can dish it out but not take the fact I’m not going to do that about any of them.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Dude. Time to give it a rest.

[🏀]

The Cardinals acquired two well-known aging pitchers to keep the fan base interested in a losing season.

Full stop.

[jesmu84]

Fans criticize other teams/cities all the time. Most fans can handle criticism by other fans. Most fans can also self-reflect on their own teams/cities honestly, at least a little.

St. Louis fans on the other hand....well, just look at the last several pages.