The Hey its 2021 now guys MLB thread

[shoothoops]

Talk about projecting...

Nah. Your posts continue to be vague and generalized as opposed to being specific to the individual discussion.

It would have been a pretty short conversation if you had a specific suggestion. You didn't and you still don't. But I didn't realize until later that your post was insincere and not really interested in an alternative solution.

[rocky_warrior]

your post was insincere and not really interested in an alternative solution.

You make up things I don't say "Rocky says".  You put me down because you don't like what I have to say.  You blather on about things irrelevant to the conversation.

But yes, I'm the problem. 

Should be an interesting end of to the baseball season. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Nah. Your post illustrated the point about a less supported subject.

And, it isn't St. Louis fandom as much as it is not saying frequent negative things about it.

I've posted neutral or positive about many places. The difference is some of those places are more supported by more people here, or they are often met with indifference.

But if I post anything short of negative scapegoating about St. Louis as a place, its sports teams, anything about it, the insecure knee jerk people come out seeking group support. That doesn't really affect me or how I post.

I like St. Louis. It's a great place. I've lived there. I also like many other places. And I have lived many other places. (NYC, DC, L.A., Milwaukee, Chicago and so on etc..let alone places visited) None of them are perfect places. There aren't any of those. But I enjoy several aspects of each place.

When some of the NYC and CT people here talk places or pizza with me, we don't seem to have this sort of an issue. I wonder why that is. I talk about Texas too. Wherever. Insert example here.

It's pretty wild how threatened some people are by anything neutral (as was this example) or positive about St. Louis.

The same can be said for posting about other sports as well. The difference is there aren't many posters that either scapegoat that sport or specific people in it on a regular basis

I really don't think think St. Louis has anything to do with it. I think this is in the same vein as the people who say "you just don't like me because of my political party".

[Dr. Blackheart]

It's St. Louis, It's St. Louis!!!

[jficke13]

[...]
And, it isn't St. Louis fandom as much as it is not saying frequent negative things about it.

I've posted neutral or positive about many places. The difference is some of those places are more supported by more people here, or they are often met with indifference.

[...]

Look, this is a fool's errand because you've made a pathos-commitment to whatever your whole St. Louis thing is here on this board, but people aren't reacting to St. Louis the place or even you defending/promoting St. Louis. You claim that you post "neutral or positive about many places," but only St. Louis-related issues cause you to write thousands of words in long extended threads engaging with people who dared level even the mildest of criticism toward the city or any of its cultural touchstones or sports teams.

I love Boston, and Chicago, and New York. But if someone were to write the way you write defending Southie, Bucktown, or Queens, I would laugh at the silly disproportionate response. That's what people are doing here and they know that all they have to do to send you "Even Herman Melville thinks you need to cool it with the word count" mode is criticize *anything* St. Louis related to any degree.

And so, having raged at the sun rising yet again in the East, I bid you farewell until the next time someone analyzes historic hitters and omits, for some reason or another, Stan Musial. Doubtless then you will appear where you are needed most, spilling three thousand words in defense of a hall of fame baseball player from the disrespect of people on the internet.

[shoothoops]

I really don't think think St. Louis has anything to do with it. I think this is in the same vein as the people who say "you just don't like me because of my political party".

St. Louis is the example here because they have won a lot often at the expense of some other teams here that many people follow or support.

Fanaticism is a trait related to personality type and temperament. It includes a hero worship of some thing or some place or someone to feel more secure. Many cling tight to it, to feel more secure, and scapegoating less supported places or things comes with that to feel more secure. Just as there are good bad indifferent fans, good bad and indifferent aspects to any place, fanaticism only applies to some.

It isn't a new phenomenon. We see it with vaccine compliance (or non compliance)

The example can be religion, politics, a sports team, a city, many things. We see examples on this board of it often.

In any example, anything short of putting the place or thing down to lift oneself up isn't going to suffice for some of the tribe.

The conversations are often more positive, indifferent, shorter, when the subject isn't a scapegoated person place or thing.

There are some here that dislike U Wisconsin or Notre Dame etc... all it would take is one person speaking about Notre Dame in any way that isn't negative. And if hypothetically Marquette played Notre Dame more regularly in basketball in recent memory, there would be more of those conversations more often. (I'm counting on the inevitable ND sucks post from someone).

You'll also notice that this happens less often here with people who don't live in WI/IL, (two other places I enjoyed) or who don't have those fandoms.

[Billy Hoyle]

What does the "we finished .500" trophy look like? Google Images shows nothing.

The same fan base used to brag about having the longest playoff streak in the NHL despite never even making the SC Finals because that was a greater accomplishment than actually winning a title. What do you expect?

[Uncle Rico]

Cardinals suck

[shoothoops]

Cardinals suck

Thank you.

The New York Mets are trying to go toe to toe with Scott Boras.

They have 1 hour and and 38 minutes left to sign Kumar Rocker.

[CreightonWarrior]

Brewers took 2 of 3 on the road against the Braves and are now 20 games over .500.

Edit: woof

[cheebs09]

Brewers took 2 of 3 on the road against BBC the Braces and are now 20 games over .500.

Not sure if there's an auto-correct going on here or if I missed a reference. Honestly, not sure which one I prefer.

[Jockey]

Brewers took 2 of 3 on the road against BBC the Braces and are now 20 games over .500.

Just keep winning series and they'll have 2 weeks at the end of September for guys to get a little rest.

[CreightonWarrior]

Not sure if there's an auto-correct going on here or if I missed a reference. Honestly, not sure which one I prefer.

LOL whoops!

[shoothoops]

Mets Owner Steve Cohen's thoughts after his team didn't sign Kumar Rocker:

"Education time - Baseball draft picks are worth up to 5x their slot value to clubs. I never shy away from investments that can make me that type of return."

https://twitter.com/stevenacohen2/status/1421962862377963521?s=21

[GB Warrior]

Mets Owner Steve Cohen's thoughts after his team didn't sign Kumar Rocker:

"Education time - Baseball draft picks are worth up to 5x their slot value to clubs. I never shy away from investments that can make me that type of return."

https://twitter.com/stevenacohen2/status/1421962862377963521?s=21

Good point, Steve. Maybe we can pay our minor leaguers a living wage...

[cheebs09]

Good point, Steve. Maybe we can pay our minor leaguers a living wage...

No need to start talking crazy.

[The Sultan]

Mets Owner Steve Cohen's thoughts after his team didn't sign Kumar Rocker:

"Education time - Baseball draft picks are worth up to 5x their slot value to clubs. I never shy away from investments that can make me that type of return."

https://twitter.com/stevenacohen2/status/1421962862377963521?s=21

So were the Mets legitimately worried about Rocker's arm and that's why they weren't shelling out the big $$$?

To be honest, the risk is way higher on the player than it is the organization.  Rocker will have to play independent ball somewhere next year and hope the arm problems aren't real.  The Mets just get their draft pick back right?

[shoothoops]

It's just an unnecessary comment at an unnecessary time for Cohen to make. By all accounts Rocker is well liked on and off the field. If he wants to go back and forth with Boras that's a bit different.

Even if the Mets thought they saw something other doctors didn't, it still would have been a good investment.

In the past Boras has had clients go the Independent League. Rocker isn't going back to school. He's done and shown enough there. For now Rocker will work out until next year's draft.

His college teammate Jack Leiter (signed) will attend classes at Vandy while doing a Texas Rangers throwing program. Vandy has a baseball building separate facility, locker room etc for its pro baseball players, that was started and donated in part by David Price.

[The Sultan]

I get that the comment was unnecessary, but I don't know why it would have been a good investment if they had concerns.  They get the pick back next year right?

[shoothoops]

I get that the comment was unnecessary, but I don't know why it would have been a good investment if they had concerns.  They get the pick back next year right?

They do.

The Mets were paying Rocker over slot. So they cannot use the money to pay Rocker, anywhere else. Next year's 11th pick isn't likely to have anywhere near that value.

it isn't unprecedented. The Mets maneuvered to get Rocker. But they chose not to sign.

By rule, Mets get 11th pick next year and Rocker does not get to sign anywhere else. And he will re-enter next year's draft.

[MUBurrow]

The Mets were paying Rocker over slot. So they cannot use the money to pay Rocker, anywhere else. Next year's 11th pick isn't likely to have anywhere near that value.

One thing I'm having trouble tracking - did the Mets ultimately offer Rocker a contract at all?  I get that the plan was to sign him over slot, but once they found the issues with his arm (whatever they are and however real they are), did they offer him any deal, even at or below slot?  It seems like they found the issues and then walked away.  If so, that seems to be a real hole in the system if now Rocker has to go back and play in the independent league or whatever. Like, can you draft a guy you have no intention of signing and effectively take an entire year off his career?

[jficke13]

One thing I'm having trouble tracking - did the Mets ultimately offer Rocker a contract at all?  I get that the plan was to sign him over slot, but once they found the issues with his arm (whatever they are and however real they are), did they offer him any deal, even at or below slot?  It seems like they found the issues and then walked away.  If so, that seems to be a real hole in the system if now Rocker has to go back and play in the independent league or whatever. Like, can you draft a guy you have no intention of signing and effectively take an entire year off his career?

It seems like the answer is "yes, a team can do this," but it begs the question: "why would they?" As in, where's the incentive to push a This Year pick into a Next Year compensatory pick one spot lower just to screw over some kid? The only thing I can think of is some next level 76ers Trust The Process thing taken way too far. But even then... even as the Mets owner said -- signing the pick has a great deal of value, so somehow the value from sabotage and hoarding compensatory picks needs to exceed the value of signing for it make sense... right?

Plus, I have no idea what the deal is with Rocker's health/arm, but the Mets at least have a plausible story as to why they did this. If there's ZERO health concerns and a team just decided to spike a top draft pick for whatever reason, that seems like it would have fallout among the players and agents, no?

[shoothoops]

Rocker made 42 straight starts in his career at Vanderbilt. He often dominated the toughest league in college baseball. He helped lead his college team to a National Title, and a National Runner Up Finish. His coach is one of the highest respected coaches in college baseball, who has a very conservative approach to handling pitchers, injury etc..

The were going to Rocker $6 million at 10. By comparison, Rocker's teammate Jack Leiter received just under $8 Million at pick 2 with Texas. The Mets went from $ 6 Million to zero.

[The Sultan]

Yeah it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to draft a guy that high you aren't expecting to sign.  It can't just be he wanted too much money and the Mets refused to pay it though right?  I mean, it's still not a lot of money in the grand scheme of baseball.

By the way, the Red Sox didn't sign their top pick either and he went back to school.

[CTWarrior]

Yeah it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to draft a guy that high you aren't expecting to sign.  It can't just be he wanted too much money and the Mets refused to pay it though right?  I mean, it's still not a lot of money in the grand scheme of baseball.

By the way, the Red Sox didn't sign their top pick either and he went back to school.

The Red Sox signed their top pick.  Their second round pick (40) did not sign and they will be compensated in next year's draft (41).