The Hey its 2021 now guys MLB thread

[WI_Inferiority_Complexes1]

But that's the thing, they have like 6 games they can afford to lose by the end of the year before being virtually eliminated.  This wasn't some "best of bad situation" , this was just what they decided to do, and it won't make a difference to their situation.

If the Brewers play .500 ball the rest of the way, the Cardinals will have to be 39-20 to force Game 163.

I understand hyperbole, and I don't think the Cards are going 39-20. I think it's even less likely the Brewers play .500. That said, I kinda understand the Cards mindset that we "aren't out until we are out."

As for the inherent smugness of the Best Fans in Baseball, the Cardinals stopped winning frequent World Series in the 1960's. A 50 year-old baseball fan had seen 3 Cardinals championships in his lifetime; it's not like their blueprint necessarily works.

[rocky_warrior]

I understand hyperbole, and I don't think the Cards are going 39-20. I think it's even less likely the Brewers play .500. That said, I kinda understand the Cards mindset that we "aren't out until we are out."

Sorry, it's not *really* hyperbole.  By my count, the Cards have 29 games left against .500+ squads, so we can fairly safely assume they lose at least 14 of those.  That gives them maybe 6 losses in the other 30 games to make the playoffs.  5 if they don't come back today.

edit:  Oh, and I don't think they play another .500+ team until the crew on Aug 17, so yeah, they'll lose 6 before then.

[shoothoops]

But that's the thing, they have like 6 games they can afford to lose by the end of the year before being virtually eliminated.  This wasn't some "best of bad situation" , this was just what they decided to do, and it won't make a difference to their situation.

1) They want their minor league pitching prospects to get their work in the minor leagues this year. i.e. Matthew Liberatore etc...

2) They did not want to give up certain prospects already mentioned earlier in this thread that they expect to use in 2022. They had many discussions, talk after talk, team after team. They thought the asking price was too high.

Most of the their discussions involved other teams asking for certain top prospects. In many years the Cardinals are doing well, have less holes to fill, etc..and they are more willing to trade a stockpile of prospects for impact stretch run players. We've seen it many times. But that isn't this year.

Unlike some if the past heavy free agents and trades, teams, the recent Cardinals strategy has preferred to build more these days through draft and player development.

3) They aren't selling their few veteran good players. They don't sell and start over as an organizational philosophy.

4) They aren't tanking for picks. Again, it's not an organizational philosophy.

5) They have used more than 10 starting pitchers this season because of injury. Multiple expected rotation starters haven't pitched a single inning. Others have missed a lot of time. They are getting back two of those missing starters soon.

6) They had a deal for a starting pitcher that fell through at the last minute.

7) They aren't going to sacrifice the 2022 season where they will be adding several players.

8) They wanted to rent low to no cost, last year of deal, veteran pitchers who can briefly fill a gap in their rotation.

I know some people are used to the Cardinals adding difference makers at the deadline many times over the years. 

You keep oddly, obsessively repeating the same thing without offering up a different strategy that's based on all of the factors present that you have to deal with when coming up with those alternatives.

[shoothoops]

If the Brewers play .500 ball the rest of the way, the Cardinals will have to be 39-20 to force Game 163.

I understand hyperbole, and I don't think the Cards are going 39-20. I think it's even less likely the Brewers play .500. That said, I kinda understand the Cards mindset that we "aren't out until we are out."

As for the inherent smugness of the Best Fans in Baseball, the Cardinals stopped winning frequent World Series in the 1960's. A 50 year-old baseball fan had seen 3 Cardinals championships in his lifetime; it's not like their blueprint necessarily works.

It isn't easy to win a World Series.

Only two teams have won more World Series Titles in your arbitrary time frame than the Cardinals. One is the Yankees of course. The other? Oakland has 1 more, and, all but one came before 1975. This is up there with some people on their couch who somehow feel disappointed seeing Silver and Bronze Medals.

30 playoff appearances 23 Pennants. 11 World Series Titles.

Since the current ownership bought the team in 1996, they have made the playoffs 15 times in 25 seasons. 8 NLCS, 4 World Series, 2 World Series Titles.

I'd say they're doing okay. I'm sure some other teams would take it.

It isn't a mindset of we aren't out until we are out. It's a mindset of playing for 2022 while not tanking, selling, giving away 2021.

Not sure why it's so difficult to understand for some. The current ownership has had just 3 losing seasons in 25 years. There is a big middle ground for them between World Series Title and having a losing record. They field competitive, winning, baseball teams most years. Try to be in the mix, add when warranted, make a run. And some of those teams have done so. That's how they do it. This is a year where they are stuck a bit which has been well documented. They did finish 47-26 two seasons ago. But that is less likely this year.

Using the Cardinals as an example, they have had several dominant 100 plus win teams that didn't win the World Series but came close. Historically they have also won big with some great teams, yes. But they have had some other World Series winning teams that didn't win as many games as the 100 win teams. And in 2011 they won the World Series with a Wild Card team, which has become more common.

The Cardinals aren't going to spend as much or draw similar tv revenue deals as L.A., Boston, New York etc...They'll he in that too dozen or so.

Every team has good, bad, and, indifferent fans.

[rocky_warrior]

Shoot, you also repeat a lot. There were cheaper options they had to close out a losing season. Sorry you can't see it.

[shoothoops]

Shoot, you also repeat a lot. There were cheaper options they had to close out a losing season. Sorry you can't see it.

I responded to your repeat posts by continuing to point out that you have yet to provide any alternatives based on their circumstances. Not one specific name, suggestion, example, alternative. Yet you keep posting the same thing. Perhaps if you had one, you would have posted it by now.

You very vaguely say there are cheaper options. Both of these two players came very cheap. That was part of the point. Lester's salary was mostly a signing bonus paid by Washington. Minnesota is paying the Cardinals cash to take Happ. The Cardinals players weren't in the Cardinals plans. They weren't protected prospects.

A losing season means their record is worse than 81-81. That may or may not happen. We'll see. They are mostly playing for 2022. They would rather keep what they have get it healthy, and add to that for 2022 than blow up the team. Seems pretty easy to understand.

They have had 3 losing seasons in 25 years. It is something their ownership doesn't prefer to do. It isn't an either or of winning World Series or lose a 100 games.

[WI_Inferiority_Complexes1]

Only two teams have won more World Series Titles in your arbitrary time frame than the Cardinals. One is the Yankees of course. The other? Oakland has 1 more, and, all but one came before 1975.

Your responses are So.Very.Long. But, stopping after your very first line We know you are excluding the Red Sox 4 titles since 2004.

I think maybe the Cardinals win more often in your head than they actually do on real life.

[rocky_warrior]

Shoot, you want names? I personally know a couple ex pitchers you could have signed off the street for cheaper. PM me and I'll give up their contact info. They'd be thrilled to take the money the cards spent.  Surprised you can't come up with better options on your own

You're clearly a fan or employed by the team. Stop trying to act like someone impartial. LoL

[MUBBau]

How many losing seasons have the Cardinals had in the last 25 years? I haven't been able to find this answer anywhere.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Your responses are So.Very.Long. But, stopping after your very first line We know you are excluding the Red Sox 4 titles since 2004.

I think maybe the Cardinals win more often in your head than they actually do on real life.

What?  Tolstoy would be impressed with shoothoops' brevity.

[rocky_warrior]

How many losing seasons have the Cardinals had in the last 25 years? I haven't been able to find this answer anywhere.

If you don't win.  You're a loser.  So apparently 23 of 25 years.

[WI_Inferiority_Complexes1]

How many losing seasons have the Cardinals had in the last 25 years? I haven't been able to find this answer anywhere.

What does the "we finished .500" trophy look like? Google Images shows nothing.

[shoothoops]

Your responses are So.Very.Long. But, stopping after your very first line We know you are excluding the Red Sox 4 titles since 2004.

I think maybe the Cardinals win more often in your head than they actually do on real life.

Good for Boston. Celebrate success.

I don't think that really helps the point you were trying to make. It actually illustrates just how difficult it is to win and be successful. Somehow the not so great Cardinals have played in more World Series, made the playoffs more years, have won more playoff games, than Boston during that same time frame. (and we haven't even gotten to other time frames yet)

[rocky_warrior]

Good for Boston. Celebrate success.

I don't think that really helps the point you were trying to make. It actually illustrates just how difficult it is to win and be successful. Somehow the not so great Cardinals have played in more World Series, made the playoffs more years, have won more playoff games, than Boston during that same time frame. (and we haven't even gotten to other time frames yet)

Oh, so the moves to acquire Lester and Happ were to retain historical significance!  Got it.  Good work!

[shoothoops]

Shoot, you want names? I personally know a couple ex pitchers you could have signed off the street for cheaper. PM me and I'll give up their contact info. They'd be thrilled to take the money the cards spent.  Surprised you can't come up with better options on your own

You're clearly a fan or employed by the team. Stop trying to act like someone impartial. LoL

I think you mistakenly think Lester and Happ are expensive options. They aren't. They are low cost, low risk, low commitment options. How many times do you think you can post the same thing without providing a specific alternative solution? I'm open to hearing any specific suggestion specific plan, specific alternative, anything specific. It's pretty wild how much the Cardinals occupy your headspace.

[rocky_warrior]

I think you mistakenly think Lester and Happ are expensive options. They aren't. They are low cost, low risk, low commitment options. How many times do you think you can post the same thing without providing a specific alternative solution? I'm open to hearing any specific suggestion specific plan, specific alternative, anything specific.

There's no mistake.  You're delusional.  I told you, PM me and I will give you a few of cheaper options for your losing season. 

[shoothoops]

If you don't win.  You're a loser.  So apparently 23 of 25 years.

Wow. How sad.

Has Marquette been a loser since 1977?

Are Olympians that don't win Gold Medals or Medals at all losers?

That's a pretty rough way to go through life. I feel bad for you. (sincerely)

[rocky_warrior]

Wow. How sad.

Has Marquette been a loser since 1977?

Are Olympians that don't win Gold Medals or Medals at all losers?

That's a pretty rough way to go through life. I feel bad for you. (sincerely)

Yes.

And Yes.

But I'm not sad.  It's just sports/entertainment.  As a cubs fan, I've been trying to offer you suggestions on how to deal with the fact the Cards have no chance this year.  Cubs and Brewers fans can help you.  Reach out if needed.  We can help.

[Jockey]

I think you mistakenly think Lester and Happ are expensive options. They aren't. They are low cost, low risk, low commitment options. How many times do you think you can post the same thing without providing a specific alternative solution? I'm open to hearing any specific suggestion specific plan, specific alternative, anything specific. It's pretty wild how much the Cardinals occupy your headspace.

You're acting like low cost is a good thing. They are low cost for a reason. If you want low cost players, become a Pirates fan.

Putting bad pitchers on the mound is also very high risk - not low risk as you claim. The only low risk is of winning.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Trade backs on this Curtiss cat? Oof.

[GB Warrior]

Trade backs on this Curtiss cat? Oof.

One game. This got off the rails cuz CB gonna CB. Curtiss has been good all year, and ATL is fighting for its playoff lives.

[shoothoops]

You're acting like low cost is a good thing. They are low cost for a reason. If you want low cost players, become a Pirates fan.

Putting bad pitchers on the mound is also very high risk - not low risk as you claim. The only low risk is of winning.

Maybe go back and read the back and forth of that in the thread.

Just read what's there. I never said it was good or bad.

Rocky said those two players were expensive adds. They weren't. They were low cost, low commitment, players. That's where to start and stop and not read into that any more than that.

Rocky says they are expensive. I say they aren't. I've already explained the thoughts behind that. I have still yet to give my opinion on it either way.

Just read what's on the page. Some others seem to be struggling with that.

[rocky_warrior]

Rocky said those two players were expensive adds. They weren't. They were low cost, low commitment, players. That's where to start and stop and not read into that any more than that.

Rocky says they are expensive. I say they aren't. I've already explained the thoughts behind that. I have still yet to give my opinion on it either way.

I said no such things.  I did say they make no sense and won't help the Cards postseason hope(lessness).

[Jockey]

Maybe go back and read the back and forth of that in the thread.

Just read what's there. I never said it was good or bad.

Rocky said those two players were expensive adds. They weren't. They were low cost, low commitment, players. That's where to start and stop and not read into that any more than that.

Rocky says they are expensive. I say they aren't. I've already explained the thoughts behind that. I have still yet to give my opinion on it either way.

Just read what's on the page. Some others seem to be struggling with that.

Maybe our views are clouded by knowing you are a Cards fan. If the Brewers picked up 2 guys like that, I wouldn't be talking about low cost and low risk (they are actually high risk to the team winning). I would be ranting about what an idiot Stearns was.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

One game. This got off the rails cuz CB gonna CB. Curtiss has been good all year, and ATL is fighting for its playoff lives.

No able to watch, no TV.  Trying to make a joke.  Sorry.