Superspreader event

[Jockey]

Look man, I'm not defending them, but you can't prove contact with their republican colleagues caused them to get covid.  There were a ton of moving pieces that day.

Stop looking for the answers you want, and think for yourself.  Of COURSE they're going to blame their non-mask wearing constituents.  It's called politics.  Lordy.

So you're a big believer in coincidence. I'm not. The virus doesn't consider politics.

[GooooMarquette]

Look man, I'm not defending them, but you can't prove contact with their republican colleagues caused them to get covid.  There were a ton of moving pieces that day.

Stop looking for the answers you want, and think for yourself.  Of COURSE they're going to blame their non-mask wearing constituents.  It's called politics.  Lordy.

You are correct that it may not be possible to prove the source of infection. But you are also bright enough to understand that much of epidemiology is about probabilities, like the assessment of likely exposures and the relative risks of various situations.

So let's look at the situation: (1) In a tight enclosed space (2) for several hours; (3) with people who refused to wear masks; (4) and tested positive shortly thereafter.

While that may not be absolute proof, it's a textbook case of an extremely high risk situation, such that most reputable epidemiologists would likely conclude it to be the origin of the infection.

Put your science hat back on....

[wadesworld]

In conclusion: Wear a damn mask.

Honestly.  It's not that hard.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

In conclusion: Wear a damn mask.

Or wear two!

https://twitter.com/NYTNational/status/1349100095497768968?s=20

[Jockey]

You are correct that it may not be possible to prove the source of infection. But you are also bright enough to understand that much of epidemiology is about probabilities, like the assessment of likely exposures and the relative risks of various situations.

So let's look at the situation: (1) In a tight enclosed space (2) for several hours; (3) with people who refused to wear masks; (4) and tested positive shortly thereafter.

While that may not be absolute proof, it's a textbook case of an extremely high risk situation, such that most reputable epidemiologists would likely conclude it to be the origin of the infection.

Put your science hat back on....

Thanks, Goo.

I thought that would be obvious,  but...

[Eldon]

I wonder if the mentality of "I've been vaccinated" may actually lead to an initial increase in spread. If it is true, that the vaccinated can still spread COVID (unknown still), then I think it is a distinct possibility.

I've seen a lot of people who have been vaccinated adopt this idea of "protection" leading them to abandon many of they prior habits to avoid COVID. Essentially they believe this gives them permission to return to life as normal. But they may actually be far more likely to spread COVID as an asymptomatic carrier.

I'm hoping that the vaccine protects both from getting sick and from acquiring and transmitting COVID, otherwise I think we may see an initial increase in spread as a result of vaccination.

This was in the news recently:

‘I Am Immortal!’ Screams 90-Year-Old British Woman Embarking On Epic Post-Vaccination Bender
https://www.theonion.com/i-am-immortal-screams-90-year-old-british-woman-emba-1845834963

[shoothoops]

New:

Any member of Congress on House Floor not wearing a mask gets $500 deducted from their pay. 2nd offense is $2500.

The House Office Building Commission is considering the same fine system.

Here is an op-ed from one of three members who tested positive for the virus:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/12/bonnie-watson-coleman-covid-republicans-masks/#click=https://t.co/GBil9pn3iA

[MU82]

You know, when I first saw this thread, I chuckled. I mean, with everything else going on, are we really gonna go off on whether this was a superspreader event?

But this was just so effen inconsiderate. It was people they work with saying, "Screw you. I don't believe in masks, and I really don't care if you get a potentially deadly infection."

I don't even know what to say about these kind of people any more.

[shoothoops]

Two time Olympic Swimming Gold Medalist Klete Keller was identified as part of the pro Trump Mob Capitol Rioters.

His teammates and coaches identified him.

"The 6'6 Keller, seen pushing and shoving police officers....was wearing his Olympic Team Jacket."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/sports/olympics/klete-keller-capitol-trump.html#click=https://t.co/srEIG09vRP

[Marquette Fan]

New:

Any member of Congress on House Floor not wearing a mask gets $500 deducted from their pay. 2nd offense is $2500.

The House Office Building Commission is considering the same fine system.

Here is an op-ed from one of three members who tested positive for the virus:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/12/bonnie-watson-coleman-covid-republicans-masks/#click=https://t.co/GBil9pn3iA

I'm glad to hear they are making this rule since so many people are so frickin selfish and can't be bothered to wear a mask.

I read the op-ed earlier - thought it was well written and I feel so bad for her as she worked so hard to avoid Covid and then got stuck last Wednesday with some people who wouldn't wear masks while sheltering in place during the domestic terrorism at the Capital.

[Hards Alumni]

You are correct that it may not be possible to prove the source of infection. But you are also bright enough to understand that much of epidemiology is about probabilities, like the assessment of likely exposures and the relative risks of various situations.

So let's look at the situation: (1) In a tight enclosed space (2) for several hours; (3) with people who refused to wear masks; (4) and tested positive shortly thereafter.

While that may not be absolute proof, it's a textbook case of an extremely high risk situation, such that most reputable epidemiologists would likely conclude it to be the origin of the infection.

Put your science hat back on....

My science hat is on, but my blinders are not.  You do realize how many people work in that building?  Security?  Staffers?  And then add general public to the HVAC system.  The number of vectors on that day is enormous.  Be reasonable.  This is politics and nothing more.  I have sincere doubts that congresspeople (who have been vaccinated) were the sources of transmission considering ALL of the facts.  Is it possible that they got it directly from their colleagues?  Sure, that is possible.

But we live in a world of optics, and that is what this is.

[JWags85]

My science hat is on, but my blinders are not.  You do realize how many people work in that building?  Security?  Staffers?  And then add general public to the HVAC system.  The number of vectors on that day is enormous.  Be reasonable.  This is politics and nothing more.  I have sincere doubts that congresspeople (who have been vaccinated) were the sources of transmission considering ALL of the facts.  Is it possible that they got it directly from their colleagues?  Sure, that is possible.

But we live in a world of optics, and that is what this is.

That’s my thought. Also, we all know people who have taken proper steps and always mask up...yet contracted COVID.  The variables are endless (not even including vaccines) but the narrative with its optics and political implications is clean and easy to come to, it’s totally unsurprising.

[pbiflyer]

Look man, I'm not defending them, but you can't prove contact with their republican colleagues caused them to get covid.  There were a ton of moving pieces that day.

Stop looking for the answers you want, and think for yourself.  Of COURSE they're going to blame their non-mask wearing constituents.  It's called politics.  Lordy.

One group not only refused to wear masks but made fun of those that did, all while their supporters were attacking causing them to hide in the first place. Not at all surprising you are defending them. Sad, really.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

New:

Any member of Congress on House Floor not wearing a mask gets $500 deducted from their pay. 2nd offense is $2500.

The House Office Building Commission is considering the same fine system.

Here is an op-ed from one of three members who tested positive for the virus:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/12/bonnie-watson-coleman-covid-republicans-masks/#click=https://t.co/GBil9pn3iA

Hopefully next up: the metal detector rule. Same fines for refusing to pass through the detectors.

Seriously, why do these people need to be such pretty boys?

[GooooMarquette]

My science hat is on, but my blinders are not.  You do realize how many people work in that building?  Security?  Staffers?  And then add general public to the HVAC system.  The number of vectors on that day is enormous.  Be reasonable.  This is politics and nothing more.  I have sincere doubts that congresspeople (who have been vaccinated) were the sources of transmission considering ALL of the facts.  Is it possible that they got it directly from their colleagues?  Sure, that is possible.

But we live in a world of optics, and that is what this is.

It is more than possible; it is highly probable. Cramped space; several hours; no masks; and subsequent positive tests. And the security people and staffers are required to wear masks, or risk getting fired. Only the GOP Congresspeople can get away with refusing.

Try doing the math again and then tell me who is wearing blinders.

[shoothoops]

It is more than possible; it is highly probable. Cramped space; several hours; no masks; and subsequent positive tests. And the security people and staffers are required to wear masks, or risk getting fired. Only the GOP Congresspeople can get away with refusing.

Try doing the math again and then tell me who is wearing blinders.

https://twitter.com/Grace4NY/status/1348914463018278913?s=19

[jesmu84]

They don't wanna go through metal detectors either.

If I have kids, I'm gonna tell them it's their right just to walk right around them if there's one at the entrance to their school.

[MU82]

Two time Olympic Swimming Gold Medalist Klete Keller was identified as part of the pro Trump Mob Capitol Rioters.

His teammates and coaches identified him.

"The 6'6 Keller, seen pushing and shoving police officers....was wearing his Olympic Team Jacket."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/sports/olympics/klete-keller-capitol-trump.html#click=https://t.co/srEIG09vRP

Pushing and shoving police officers? What a lightweight. Why wasn't he bashing their heads in with flagpoles holding American flags like video showed several other terrorists doing?

Actually, I shouldn't call them terrorists. It's not like they were doing anything really horrible involving the flag.

Like quietly and peacefully kneeling during the anthem.

[Jockey]

My science hat is on, but my blinders are not.  You do realize how many people work in that building?  Security?  Staffers?  And then add general public to the HVAC system.  The number of vectors on that day is enormous.  Be reasonable.  This is politics and nothing more.  I have sincere doubts that congresspeople (who have been vaccinated) were the sources of transmission considering ALL of the facts.  Is it possible that they got it directly from their colleagues?  Sure, that is possible.

But we live in a world of optics, and that is what this is.

Stop already and just accept the simple, obvious answer. Most people who work in the building wear masks. The general public wear masks in the building. You are the only one who is making this political by denying the most likely answer as you support the mouth breathers.

[wadesworld]

Even if they could prove with 100% certainty nobody got covid from the people refusing to wear a mask, it's still irresponsible and inconsiderate for people not to be wearing masks indoors with people they don't live with right now.  Even if you're vaccinated.  It's possible you can still spread the virus as an asymptomatic carrier even after you are vaccinated.

So again.  Wear a damn mask.

[Hards Alumni]

Stop already and just accept the simple, obvious answer. Most people who work in the building wear masks. The general public wear masks in the building. You are the only one who is making this political by denying the most likely answer as you support the mouth breathers.

Yeah, okay bud.  You win, I feel so owned.

I look forward to the talking points you've been handed for tomorrow's political posting.

[Hards Alumni]

One group not only refused to wear masks but made fun of those that did, all while their supporters were attacking causing them to hide in the first place. Not at all surprising you are defending them. Sad, really.

Please point to where I defended anyone not wearing a mask.  You must be new around here, or lack the fundamental ability to read or retain information.

Furthermore, I'm more left leaning than probably 99% of this board.  I just can smell BS when the scent is wafting in from the farms.

[Hards Alumni]

It is more than possible; it is highly probable. Cramped space; several hours; no masks; and subsequent positive tests. And the security people and staffers are required to wear masks, or risk getting fired. Only the GOP Congresspeople can get away with refusing.

Try doing the math again and then tell me who is wearing blinders.

The space had more than 6 ft between the group who didn't want to wear masks, and who did if that was wanted.  It was a big room, and while it may not have been PROPERLY spaced I'm pretty sure I could have found a way to stay away from the maskless jackasses.  They were locked up for less than two hours.  The congress people who got covid here were wearing masks, right?  That should offer quite a bit of protection.  I see masks being worn wrong all the time.  Why did only these 3 congress people contract covid?  Why were they anywhere near the people without masks?Security and staffers might be required to wear masks, but were they wearing them?  You can't answer that with certainty.  Now, add the hundreds of people who stormed the building to the mix.

Again, I'm not making excuses for anyone's terrible behavior, I just wish people could figure out that most of politics is grandstanding and performance art.  It is meant to evoke emotions, and as you can see from folks like Jockey and rocket, it works really well.  Then add the cable news commentary to the emotions and people become tribal.  And that's where we are at politically in our country.  Absolute polarization.

Both the Democrats, and Republicans wanted that video of them in the shelter room to come out.  Just for different reasons.  That stupid video shot from a phone has probably already raised millions of dollars for each side.  What is outrageous and unsafe to one side is rebellion and freedom to another.

[shoothoops]

Lots of these photos floating around since last night. (All wearing masks, and others not pictured stationed outside of individual offices, visitor areas etc, hundreds of them):


https://twitter.com/ESCochrane/status/1349369986624712705?s=19

[GooooMarquette]

The space had more than 6 ft between the group who didn't want to wear masks, and who did if that was wanted.  It was a big room, and while it may not have been PROPERLY spaced I'm pretty sure I could have found a way to stay away from the maskless jackasses.  They were locked up for less than two hours.  The congress people who got covid here were wearing masks, right?  That should offer quite a bit of protection.  I see masks being worn wrong all the time.  Why did only these 3 congress people contract covid?  Why were they anywhere near the people without masks?Security and staffers might be required to wear masks, but were they wearing them?  You can't answer that with certainty.  Now, add the hundreds of people who stormed the building to the mix.

Again, I'm not making excuses for anyone's terrible behavior, I just wish people could figure out that most of politics is grandstanding and performance art.  It is meant to evoke emotions, and as you can see from folks like Jockey and rocket, it works really well.  Then add the cable news commentary to the emotions and people become tribal.  And that's where we are at politically in our country.  Absolute polarization.

Both the Democrats, and Republicans wanted that video of them in the shelter room to come out.  Just for different reasons.  That stupid video shot from a phone has probably already raised millions of dollars for each side.  What is outrageous and unsafe to one side is rebellion and freedom to another.

I have said from the beginning that we won't know with certainty.

I am just going based on the risk factors, and pointing to the far most likely possibility. Nothing more, nothing less.