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The Sultan

I think the problem with the Republican party is that they have become focused on "traditionalism."  A rose-colored look at what America used to be, and a desire to go back there.  Whatever "there" is.  And therefore you have people like guru feel that those who are against Republicans, are therefore anti-American.  There is no sense that change can actually be better.  Or better said, that change within the bounds of what has made this country great could actually make it even greater. 

I actually think this is the inevitable result of appealing to evangelical Christians.  Largely rural (or suburban), whiter, older  traditionalists. 

Finally, I think the biggest mistake the Republicans made, was turning so sharply anti-immigrant.  From a social and economic perspective, the Hispanic population by and large has more in common with the Republicans of 25-30 years ago than they do the Democrats of today.  But again, when you bow to "traditional America" there is little room for people who speak a different language.
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

GooooMarquette

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 01, 2020, 09:50:20 AM

I think the problem with the Republican party is that they have become focused on "traditionalism."  A rose-colored look at what America used to be, and a desire to go back there.  Whatever "there" is.  And therefore you have people like guru feel that those who are against Republicans, are therefore anti-American.  There is no sense that change can actually be better.  Or better said, that change within the bounds of what has made this country great could actually make it even greater. 

I actually think this is the inevitable result of appealing to evangelical Christians.  Largely rural (or suburban), whiter, older  traditionalists. 

Finally, I think the biggest mistake the Republicans made, was turning so sharply anti-immigrant.  From a social and economic perspective, the Hispanic population by and large has more in common with the Republicans of 25-30 years ago than they do the Democrats of today.  But again, when you bow to "traditional America" there is little room for people who speak a different language.


Yep - the 'good old days' mindset.

The problem is that this doesn't allow for positive change or new demographics. And as Billy Joel once said "the good old days weren't always good."


MUfan12

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 01, 2020, 09:50:20 AM
Finally, I think the biggest mistake the Republicans made, was turning so sharply anti-immigrant.  From a social and economic perspective, the Hispanic population by and large has more in common with the Republicans of 25-30 years ago than they do the Democrats of today.  But again, when you bow to "traditional America" there is little room for people who speak a different language.

And frankly, there's a good deal of the black community, especially those that are religious, that have a lot of conservative views.

What you said about immigration, and Goldberg's piece about the cities are bang on on the money. As someone who worked Republican campaigns, I don't recognize this party. The fact the party sold it's soul to Trump and the alt-right is so infuriating to me.

It will take generations to recover from the damage he's done, if the party recovers at all.

The Sultan

Quote from: MUfan12 on November 01, 2020, 10:17:57 AM
And frankly, there's a good deal of the black community, especially those that are religious, that have a lot of conservative views.

What you said about immigration, and Goldberg's piece about the cities are bang on on the money. As someone who worked Republican campaigns, I don't recognize this party. The fact the party sold it's soul to Trump and the alt-right is so infuriating to me.

It will take generations to recover from the damage he's done, if the party recovers at all.


Trafficking in tin foil hattery doesn't help them either.
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

Pakuni

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 01, 2020, 09:31:46 AM

Nate Silver's 538 site reminds us that in 2016, Trump was only a 'normal-sized polling error' (less than one standard deviation) away from winning. So while it was clearly an upset, it wasn't the statistically unbelievable outcome it has been portrayed to be.

Silver has shown that Biden's lead is well beyond the 'normal-sized polling error' lead of Clinton in 2016. So even if the polls are off by as much as they were in 2016, Biden would still win 335 electoral votes. In fact, for Trump to have a chance, the polls would have to be off by nearly two standard deviations. He calls this - between one and two standard deviations - the 'zone of plausibility.' So in Silver's terms, it is not likely that Trump can overcome the polling deficit, but it is not implausible.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-can-still-win-but-the-polls-would-have-to-be-off-by-way-more-than-in-2016/

Right.
538 gave Trump a 30 percent chance in 2016. The site currently gives him a 10 percent chance. Certainly not impossible, but much more improbable than four years ago.

Jockey

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 01, 2020, 10:06:02 AM
Yep - the 'good old days' mindset.

The problem is that this doesn't allow for positive change or new demographics. And as Billy Joel once said "the good old days weren't always good."

Doesn't "good old days" really mean good old days for whites?

Pakuni

@chucklindell: The Texas Supreme Court on Sunday rejected, without comment, a bid by three Republican candidates and a GOP activist to toss out almost 127,000 votes cast in drive-thru lanes in the emerging Democratic stronghold of Harris County.
The developing story at:
https://www.statesman.com/news/20201101/texas-court-rejects-bid-to-toss-127000-harris-county-votes-but-fight-isnrsquot-over

Jockey

Quote from: Pakuni on November 01, 2020, 02:49:00 PM
@chucklindell: The Texas Supreme Court on Sunday rejected, without comment, a bid by three Republican candidates and a GOP activist to toss out almost 127,000 votes cast in drive-thru lanes in the emerging Democratic stronghold of Harris County.
The developing story at:
https://www.statesman.com/news/20201101/texas-court-rejects-bid-to-toss-127000-harris-county-votes-but-fight-isnrsquot-over

They also filed in Federal courts, so it's still kinda up in the air.

MU82

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 01, 2020, 09:50:20 AM
I think the problem with the Republican party is that they have become focused on "traditionalism."  A rose-colored look at what America used to be, and a desire to go back there.  Whatever "there" is.  And therefore you have people like guru feel that those who are against Republicans, are therefore anti-American.  There is no sense that change can actually be better.  Or better said, that change within the bounds of what has made this country great could actually make it even greater. 

I actually think this is the inevitable result of appealing to evangelical Christians.  Largely rural (or suburban), whiter, older  traditionalists. 

Finally, I think the biggest mistake the Republicans made, was turning so sharply anti-immigrant.  From a social and economic perspective, the Hispanic population by and large has more in common with the Republicans of 25-30 years ago than they do the Democrats of today.  But again, when you bow to "traditional America" there is little room for people who speak a different language.

Interesting post, and good point.

We've seen examples of this beyond politics, too. For example, in Col. Jessup's posts in the Al, he constantly pines for the past and/or status quo in regards to basketball stuff; and he's almost always against change, especially change favoring the powerless at the expense of the powerful. He's not the only one, but probably the most vocal.

"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

GooooMarquette

Quote from: Jockey on November 01, 2020, 03:01:07 PM
They also filed in Federal courts, so it's still kinda up in the air.


In the election cases that have gone to SCOTUS thus far, they have respected decisions by the states and their courts. If they are consistent, the TX Supreme Court's ruling should stand.

Warriors4ever

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article246877387.html

The president tweets video of the Biden bus being surrounded and harassed, and says 'I love Texas'.
How people condone this is beyond me.

lawdog77

Quote from: Pakuni on November 01, 2020, 02:49:00 PM
@chucklindell: The Texas Supreme Court on Sunday rejected, without comment, a bid by three Republican candidates and a GOP activist to toss out almost 127,000 votes cast in drive-thru lanes in the emerging Democratic stronghold of Harris County.
The developing story at:
https://www.statesman.com/news/20201101/texas-court-rejects-bid-to-toss-127000-harris-county-votes-but-fight-isnrsquot-over
Not quite sure why they waited so long to file. If Texas law really does state that the legislature needs to change voting procedures, the case probably would have merit.

jesmu84

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 01, 2020, 03:37:20 PM
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article246877387.html

The president tweets video of the Biden bus being surrounded and harassed, and says 'I love Texas'.
How people condone this is beyond me.

He said his supporters were trying to protect the bus.

After one of his aides said the Trump campaign doesn't condone the behavior

Uncle Rico

Quote from: jesmu84 on November 01, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
He said his supporters were trying to protect the bus.

After one of his aides said the Trump campaign doesn't condone the behavior

Nobody undermines his own people quite like the President himself
Guster is for Lovers

Jockey


MU82

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 01, 2020, 03:37:20 PM
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article246877387.html

The president tweets video of the Biden bus being surrounded and harassed, and says 'I love Texas'.
How people condone this is beyond me.

Yeah ... but Kamala Harris is a "monster."

The emperor loves terrorists and gangs and thugs ... as long as they are white terrorists and gangs and thugs.


"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Uncle Rico

Quote from: MU82 on November 01, 2020, 06:39:39 PM
Yeah ... but Kamala Harris is a "monster."

The emperor loves terrorists and gangs and thugs ... as long as they are white terrorists and gangs and thugs.

He has a fondness for dictators, too
Guster is for Lovers

GB Warrior

Quote from: Warriors4ever on November 01, 2020, 03:37:20 PM
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article246877387.html

The president tweets video of the Biden bus being surrounded and harassed, and says 'I love Texas'.
How people condone this is beyond me.

Because they're bad people?

Billy Hoyle

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 01, 2020, 03:05:01 PM

In the election cases that have gone to SCOTUS thus far, they have respected decisions by the states and their courts. If they are consistent, the TX Supreme Court's ruling should stand.

The last one was 4-4, without Justice Stepford ruling.

Quote from: jesmu84 on November 01, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
He said his supporters were trying to protect the bus.

After one of his aides said the Trump campaign doesn't condone the behavior

And if one believes that then they also believe dogs can speak fluent Portuguese if pet them in the right place.
"Kevin thinks 'mother' is half a word." - Mike Deane

shoothoops

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/01/ben-ginsberg-voter-suppression-republicans/#click=https://t.co/Cien4D2tob

GOP Election Lawyer:

"Voter Fraud is a fraud devised to suppress votes "

"Proof of systematic voter fraud has become the Loch Ness Monster of the Republican Party. People have spent a lot of time looking for it, but it doesn't exist "

"The Trump campaign and Republican entities engaged in more than 40 voting and ballot and court cases around the country this year." In exactly none, zero, are they making it easier for citizens to vote. In many, they are seeking to erect barriers."


forgetful

Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 01, 2020, 03:05:01 PM

In the election cases that have gone to SCOTUS thus far, they have respected decisions by the states and their courts. If they are consistent, the TX Supreme Court's ruling should stand.

There is a new judge waiting in the wings to break any ties. She quite possibly will be the deciding vote in this election.

Pakuni

@JoeNBC: Florida update: Democrats added 12,000 today. They will go into Election Day with a 100,000+ advantage. Hillary was at 90,000. Florida will come down to the approximately 2.5 million "independents". Both sides agree the race is extremely close & both sides think they'll win.

shoothoops

95 million people have already voted. Over 100 million people expected to vote before Tuesday:

https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1323087518112358400?s=19

MU82

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 01, 2020, 07:02:16 PM
The last one was 4-4, without Justice Stepford ruling.

Fess up ... did you make that up, or do you just know a good line when you steal one (as do I)?

Because I gotta admit, I'm stealin' "Justice Stepford"!
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

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