MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: MU82 on October 15, 2020, 12:45:48 PM
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I cast my ballot today, first day of early voting in North Carolina.
I'm always proud to do this civic duty for our great democratic republic.
No politics here, and certainly no partisan statements. Just hoping that everybody votes.
Peace out, my MU brothers and sisters.
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Is there an election?
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Is there an election?
how would we know this, we don't have a politics board
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Is there an election?
You'd never know by watching TV commercials in Wisconsin.
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Two weeks ago!
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Dropped my ballot at the elections office Monday.
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I'm voting in person. No way am I falling for some fake Russian ballots, drop boxes, websites.
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Took mine to the clerk's office in city hall.
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I’ve been voting everyday
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I’ve been voting everyday
(https://news.northeastern.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/AP_765662144653-1440x0-c-default.jpg)
My collection is getting quite impressive over here but I am running out of polling stations!
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I’ve been voting everyday
I've been stealing ballots and dumping them in rivers.
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I've got 10,000 ballots from China in my basement. They aren't filling themselves out ya know...
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Oh, to be in Chicago this election season. Voting early and often.
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My dog, dead Grandmother, and six year old son all cast votes here in Illinois. Early and often baby!
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North Carolina opened early voting yesterday and Mecklenburg County, the state's largest county (and the one where I reside), crushed its previous single-day record for early voting.
The total of 35,269 voters was nearly 20% higher than the previous record, 29,843, set on Nov. 4, 2016. That was 4 days before the '16 election, so it will be interesting to see if new records are yet to be set this year.
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Already voted. Needed to vote early so I can work the poll on Election Day.
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I have always voted in- person early by this time.
But not this year as Rs have restricted the time as part of their voter suppression efforts.
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I have always voted in- person early by this time.
But not this year as Rs have restricted the time as part of their voter suppression efforts.
IBTL.
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I have always voted in- person early by this time.
But not this year as Rs have restricted the time as part of their voter suppression efforts.
I know I'm painting the kettle black, but ...
Let's not do this in this thread, OK brand?
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I early voted today and something weird happened.
There's a polling place at A&M's student union where I went to cast my vote. When I got my ballot, I noticed it said that I was voting at a baptist church a few miles away instead of at the student union. I brought this up to the volunteers at the polling site and they said they were aware and said that the wrong ballots had been delivered there but it wasn't a problem. A few questions:
1. Are they right, is that not a problem?
2. If it is a problem, where do I report said problem?
3. If it is a problem, how do I make sure that my vote is going to be counted?
In the past, I probably would have shrugged my shoulders and trusted the volunteers. Given how much "emphasis" has been put on voter fraud this election, I just want to make sure that my vote isn't getting thrown out because of a delivery error.
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I early voted today and something weird happened.
There's a polling place at A&M's student union where I went to cast my vote. When I got my ballot, I noticed it said that I was voting at a baptist church a few miles away instead of at the student union. I brought this up to the volunteers at the polling site and they said they were aware and said that the wrong ballots had been delivered there but it wasn't a problem. A few questions:
1. Are they right, is that not a problem?
2. If it is a problem, where do I report said problem?
3. If it is a problem, how do I make sure that my vote is going to be counted?
In the past, I probably would have shrugged my shoulders and trusted the volunteers. Given how much "emphasis" has been put on voter fraud this election, I just want to make sure that my vote isn't getting thrown out because of a delivery error.
Super sketchy.
1. Call local elected official
2. report to the state offical
3. call local media
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In honesty, this is a reason I do not vote any other way than in person, on election day.
If you don't think there are 1000 different groups trying to peck away at election security, you are deluding yourself.
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Super sketchy.
1. Call local elected official
2. report to the state offical
3. call local media
Excellent suggestions.
I would do at least 2 of the 3 -- call an elected official you think can be trusted, and let the local newspaper know.
If you voted though, TAMU, I'm not sure if those steps will "save" your vote or not. Weird stuff, strange times.
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It's why we need a massive Voting Reform Bill among a zillion other things.
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It's why we need a massive Voting Reform Bill among a zillion other things.
In CT there is a website where I can already see that my ballot is received. Delivered to me by mail but I chose to hand deliver to Dropbox.
I can get used to this-it was nice to have it done on my own time but also to see some verification of receipt.
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Nads, what was your big hurry to register your vote? I haven't voted yet, but my vote will cancel yours out anyway, hey?
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I got mine in early because I would hate to be unable to vote because I was sick. Never know when a positive patient is going to hack up a lung on me.
Too much integrity to endanger others.b. But it would sure suck to plan to vote on November 3 and be quarantining.
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Nads, what was your big hurry to register your vote? I haven't voted yet, but my vote will cancel yours out anyway, hey?
Maybe yours will cancel my first vote, but not my second or third.
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In CT there is a website where I can already see that my ballot is received. Delivered to me by mail but I chose to hand deliver to Dropbox.
I can get used to this-it was nice to have it done on my own time but also to see some verification of receipt.
Same here in MN.
I put mine in the drop box at the county offices on Monday. The next day that it had been registered into the MN Secretary of State's system, with a verification that it will be counted. Great system.
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Anyone else get texts soliciting donations for candidates that live nowhere near you.
I've been getting texts asking me to donate to Tommy Tubervile. I live nowhere near Alabama.
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Anyone else get texts soliciting donations for candidates that live nowhere near you.
I've been getting texts asking me to donate to Tommy Tubervile. I live nowhere near Alabama.
The only thing I can think of is if you use a VPN that connects through a server in that area. If not, really strange.
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Same here in MN.
I put mine in the drop box at the county offices on Monday. The next day that it had been registered into the MN Secretary of State's system, with a verification that it will be counted. Great system.
Yup, Colorado's been that way for what feels like a decade. Ballot mailed to you early, drop in a box at your convenience, check status online. Easy.
OK, looked it up. It's been that way since 2014. And I guess other states have been bugging Colorado on "how to get it right": https://www.denverpost.com/2020/05/24/mail-vote-ballots-colorado-coronavirus/
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I early voted today and something weird happened.
There's a polling place at A&M's student union where I went to cast my vote. When I got my ballot, I noticed it said that I was voting at a baptist church a few miles away instead of at the student union. I brought this up to the volunteers at the polling site and they said they were aware and said that the wrong ballots had been delivered there but it wasn't a problem. A few questions:
1. Are they right, is that not a problem?
2. If it is a problem, where do I report said problem?
3. If it is a problem, how do I make sure that my vote is going to be counted?
In the past, I probably would have shrugged my shoulders and trusted the volunteers. Given how much "emphasis" has been put on voter fraud this election, I just want to make sure that my vote isn't getting thrown out because of a delivery error.
It’s called muddying the waters. If these votes are contested, it might be easy to get them tossed.
I would follow the suggestions you were given - especially notifying local media to get this on the record as this may involve hundreds or thousands of votes.
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#facepalm
IBTL
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Anyone else get texts soliciting donations for candidates that live nowhere near you.
I've been getting texts asking me to donate to Tommy Tubervile. I live nowhere near Alabama.
On my cell phone, I have been getting donation requests addressed not only to me, but also to Glow, Glow Jr. (who lives on the other side of the country), and someone named "Jenna".
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Anyone else get texts soliciting donations for candidates that live nowhere near you.
I've been getting texts asking me to donate to Tommy Tubervile. I live nowhere near Alabama.
I get easily 5-8 fundraising emails DAILY from the candidate in South Carolina who running against Lindsey Graham. I guess that kind of effort is why he recently set all time record for quarterly donations.
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My mom and dad were a split marriage .. she was a Democrat, he a Republican.
There were many years where we'd have a R candidate lawn sign on one side of the yard, their D opponent on the other.
Inevitably on election day, they'd go (separately) to the polls and announce "I'M GOING TO CANCEL OUT YOUR VOTE."
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My mom and dad were a split marriage .. she was a Democrat, he a Republican.
There were many years where we'd have a R candidate lawn sign on one side of the yard, their D opponent on the other.
Inevitably on election day, they'd go (separately) to the polls and announce "I'M GOING TO CANCEL OUT YOUR VOTE."
And they say Millenials and Gen Z invented Cancel Culture
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And they say Millenials and Gen Z invented Cancel Culture
(https://i.gifer.com/XtIT.gif)
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Nads, what was your big hurry to register your vote? I haven't voted yet, but my vote will cancel yours out anyway, hey?
Friend,
I’ve been on MU boards since I was in high school. I thought I had an idea of who you were, but this election season has me shocked more than normal.
Why of all people are you pushing T?
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On my cell phone, I have been getting donation requests addressed not only to me, but also to Glow, Glow Jr. (who lives on the other side of the country), and someone named "Jenna".
I'm "Alan".
Fück you, Al.
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I get easily 5-8 fundraising emails DAILY from the candidate in South Carolina who running against Lindsey Graham. I guess that kind of effort is why he recently set all time record for quarterly donations.
Jaime Harrison.
His campaign raised $57 million this past quarter. In addition, the Biden campaign has raised hundreds of millions of dollars, more than they can spend between now and the election.
Many people today have lived in several geographies, as well as have spent time in many geographies. Everything isn't hyper local. Many people care what is going on in other geographies. And people also pay attention to the work of elected officials that affect them nationally even if lthe elected official is located elsewhere.
These things of course work both ways. Larry Ellison of Oracle recently donated $250,000 to Lindsey Graham after Oracle was named a U.S. Tik Tok company. And of course Lindsey Graham has been on National television many times recently begging for money nationally.
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Friend,
I’ve been on MU boards since I was in high school. I thought I had an idea of who you were, but this election season has me shocked more than normal.
Why of all people are you pushing T?
O, I taught Nads hated Byedon, hey?
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O, I taught Nads hated Byedon, hey?
Why are you obsessed with me, even when you are talking to other Scoopers, and what the eff are you talking about?
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Be they Republicans, Democrats or Unaffiliateds, I'm proud of my fellow North Carolinians.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article246524703.html?ac_cid=DM304246&ac_bid=-1721422190
More than 425,000 votes were cast in person in North Carolina on Friday, about twice as many as on Thursday when polls opened for early voting.
The total number of votes cast in person was at 656,710, according to the N.C. State Board of Elections. That includes the ballots from people who stood outside in the rain Friday and those who lined up before sunrise and waited hours to vote on Thursday.
In addition to early votes cast in person, 592,176 absentee ballots had been cast as of Saturday morning.
That brings the total number of votes cast to nearly 1.25 million, more than 17% of the state’s registered voters.
Vote!
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On my cell phone, I have been getting donation requests addressed not only to me, but also to Glow, Glow Jr. (who lives on the other side of the country), and someone named "Jenna".
You should live in Florida to a divided household. We get calls from every possible side of the political spectrum.
What’s even more interesting is that I registered to vote in Florida in 2017. At the time, the State of Florida sent my voters registration to the Lake County, IL Board of Elections telling them I was a resident of Florida and to cancel my registration in Illinois. I still have a summer home in Lake County, IL and lo-and-behold, I received a voter registration card in the mail last week. My wife went through the same process and her registration was cancelled. Mine apparently wasn’t.
Another story was when we moved from Naperville to Libertyville in 1994, we moved out of a precinct that was at the time virtually all GOP. We had a week between homes and when we moved to our new home, the first piece of mail we received was a letter from the DuPage County Board of Elections telling my wife (and her alone) that the GOP Precinct Committeemen had brought to their attention that my wife (but not me) no longer lives in our house in Naperville and she should show cause as to why she should not be deleted from the voter roles. Needless to say, we both registered in Lake County.
My favorite though was still back in the 1980s when my parents moved to Wilmette. The local Republican precinct captain stopped by during the election and introduced himself and the Republican “team” to my Dad. My father was very polite and though a Democrat, promised to give serious consideration to the candidates. When my Dad told the precinct worker he was a Democrat, the precinct worker said, “I didn’t know a Democrat could get a mortgage on a home in this neighborhood.”
My Dad smiled and said, “I didn’t either. I paid cash. Look it up!”
No matter what your political party and beliefs, please vote. Too many people in this country died to preserve that right. And, for those of you who live in Illinois, one time is enough! OK?
Happy Election Day everyone.
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Jaime Harrison.
His campaign raised $57 million this past quarter. In addition, the Biden campaign has raised hundreds of millions of dollars, more than they can spend between now and the election.
Many people today have lived in several geographies, as well as have spent time in many geographies. Everything isn't hyper local. Many people care what is going on in other geographies. And people also pay attention to the work of elected officials that affect them nationally even if lthe elected official is located elsewhere.
These things of course work both ways. Larry Ellison of Oracle recently donated $250,000 to Lindsey Graham after Oracle was named a U.S. Tik Tok company. And of course Lindsey Graham has been on National television many times recently begging for money nationally.
538 (I think) had an interesting story on this race. Basically said that it will be very hard for Harrison to win, because in a good year, the Democratic candidate can pretty easily get to 45%, but it is extremely difficult to get to 50% because S.C. has the most consistent voters by party affiliation. That is, there are very few swing voters or voters that ever cross party lines. It would take a huge change in party turnout to overcome that advantage.
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The Secretary of State's office in Illinois can't afford to send out renewal notices for license plates or driver's licenses, but they sent both Glow and me notices via first class mail to our Wisconsin address (which we never directly provided to them) encouraging us to submit absentee ballots in Illinois. We had surrendered our Illinois driver's licenses months before.
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538 (I think) had an interesting story on this race. Basically said that it will be very hard for Harrison to win, because in a good year, the Democratic candidate can pretty easily get to 45%, but it is extremely difficult to get to 50% because S.C. has the most consistent voters by party affiliation. That is, there are very few swing voters or voters that ever cross party lines. It would take a huge change in party turnout to overcome that advantage.
I have read similar, and it would be one of the biggest upsets around if Harrison wins. Indeed, the latest reliable poll has Graham back in front by 6 points.
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538 (I think) had an interesting story on this race. Basically said that it will be very hard for Harrison to win, because in a good year, the Democratic candidate can pretty easily get to 45%, but it is extremely difficult to get to 50% because S.C. has the most consistent voters by party affiliation. That is, there are very few swing voters or voters that ever cross party lines. It would take a huge change in party turnout to overcome that advantage.
Harrison may or may not win, but he certainly has a legit chance. And he has the money to spend to try to do so. My point was more about how many people around the country are interested in and actively participating in political races across the country.
As for the also mentioned, getting texts, calls, emails, personally from several markets across the country, that is very different. It’s one thing to see a Jaime Harrison ad on tv or the internet in another state. It’s another to be personally contacted.
I am probably like many others that ai have been contacted a lot via phone calls, texting, and emails for specific political races, unsolicited. That is very different.
Much of the time I just ignore them and I don’t keep up with them. However, One time I answered because I thought I knew the number. It was a young adult polling me about a Congressional race. So I played along and answered a few questions, which turned into many questions. The caller at first asked pretty simple straight forward questions. Later as it became apparent I supported a different candidate, the questions had long set ups with false premises to elevate one candidate and to disparage the other. After the person saying repeatedly just a few more questions etc...I had gotten to the point where it was way too long and ended the call. I have been contacted by at least a half a dozen states. But I only answered the one time because I thought I knew the number. I won’t miss being contacted.
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Same here in MN.
I put mine in the drop box at the county offices on Monday. The next day that it had been registered into the MN Secretary of State's system, with a verification that it will be counted. Great system.
That’s the way Oregon has done it for 20 years. Had record primary turnout in the midst of the pandemic. That’s the problem for one side though, it helps people vote and we can’t have that.
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Another benefit to voting early is that I suspect that the militia types are going to be patrolling near polling sites with AR-15's. I avoid that crap.
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Another benefit to voting early is that I suspect that the militia types are going to be patrolling near polling sites with AR-15's. I avoid that crap.
Isn't that illegal in every state?
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So are kidnapping plots.
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Another benefit to voting early is that I suspect that the militia types are going to be patrolling near polling sites with AR-15's. I avoid that crap.
As do I. Concealed carry only.
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Another benefit to voting early is that I suspect that the militia domestic terrorist types are going to be patrolling near polling sites with AR-15's. I avoid that crap.
FIFY
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Dems got more votes in the South Carolina February primary than they did in 2 of the last 3 Senate elections (2016 was the exception, which was a presidential year). Turnout will be the key. I also think Graham may be uniquely qualified to lose voters. Worth watching is the Constitution Party candidate Bill Bledsoe, who dropped out and endorsed Graham but will still appear on the ballot. Low information voters may cast protest votes away from the unpopular Graham. Not likely, but no impossible.
Isn't that illegal in every state?
It is, but then it comes down to enforcement. Private militias patrolling or protecting property in public, like the one Kyle Rittenhouse was part of, are illegal, but police on scene were openly thanking them.
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Not so sure it's illegal in every state. Michigan's Secretary of State just had to release 'new restrictions' to prohibit guns at polling places, county clerk's offices and places where absentee ballots will be tallied.
https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/10/16/924515201/michigan-bans-open-carry-of-guns-at-polling-locations-on-election-day
And if it was technically legal in Michigan - at least before Friday - I can only imagine what the law might say in some of the really red states.
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Not so sure it's illegal in every state. Michigan's Secretary of State just had to release 'new restrictions' to prohibit guns at polling places, county clerk's offices and places where absentee ballots will be tallied.
https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/10/16/924515201/michigan-bans-open-carry-of-guns-at-polling-locations-on-election-day
And if it was technically legal in Michigan - at least before Friday - I can only imagine what the law might say in some of the really red states.
Private militias activating themselves are illegal in every state.
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-work/addressing-the-rise-of-unlawful-private-paramilitaries/state-fact-sheets/
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Private militias activating themselves are illegal in every state.
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-work/addressing-the-rise-of-unlawful-private-paramilitaries/state-fact-sheets/
An actual militia 'patrolling' the site as a group - absolutely.
But individuals availing themselves of conceal carry or open carry laws are not necessarily prevented from having guns at or near polling places. And since the burden would be on the state to prove that it was a group formally patrolling a site instead of a bunch of individuals 'exercising their Second Amendment rights,' there is still cause for concern. Hence, Michigan's new restrictions, which clearly apply to all individuals.
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Private militias activating themselves are illegal in every state.
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-work/addressing-the-rise-of-unlawful-private-paramilitaries/state-fact-sheets/
My guess is that there will be very few - if any - of these little cowards at polling places in black areas.
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Not so sure it's illegal in every state. Michigan's Secretary of State just had to release 'new restrictions' to prohibit guns at polling places, county clerk's offices and places where absentee ballots will be tallied.
https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/10/16/924515201/michigan-bans-open-carry-of-guns-at-polling-locations-on-election-day
And if it was technically legal in Michigan - at least before Friday - I can only imagine what the law might say in some of the really red states.
Good for them.
I just wonder if this directive will be challenged in court, perhaps backed by NRA $$$$.
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My guess is that there will be very few - if any - of these little cowards at polling places in black areas.
I'm not so sure of that. What's the point of them going into white suburbs? The militias in Portland, Louisville, and Kenosha all went into minority areas, did they not?
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I don't think we will see "militias," but will likely see a few people at a few sights causing trouble for various reasons.
My guess is that a number of them won't understand the process because they've never voted before either.
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I have read in some FB groups I belong to that there are issues at some early voting places with people showing up who refuse to wear masks. This can delay things while officials try to deal with it, and also cause other people to not want to stay if they Feel unsafe.
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I'm not so sure of that. What's the point of them going into white suburbs? The militias domestic terrorists in Portland, Louisville, and Kenosha all went into minority areas, did they not?
FTFY
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I have read in some FB groups I belong to that there are issues at some early voting places with people showing up who refuse to wear masks. This can delay things while officials try to deal with it, and also cause other people to not want to stay if they Feel unsafe.
In Texas, it is illegal to require people to wear masks to polling places. https://texasscorecard.com/state/texas-ag-reminds-election-officials-masks-not-mandated-at-polling-places/
The cynic in me says that this is done to try to scare people who take the pandemic more seriously away from the polls.
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In Wisconsin, we are not allowed to turn anyone away at the polling place. Even if they are sick with every symptom of Covid.
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In Wisconsin, we are not allowed to turn anyone away at the polling place. Even if they are sick with every symptom of Covid.
Then we should be advising all elderly voters to stay home.
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In Wisconsin, we are not allowed to turn anyone away at the polling place. Even if they are sick with every symptom of Covid.
Hate to say it, but this makes sense. Allowing election judges to arbitrarily deny someone the ability to vote based on a subjective, non-expert diagnosis would seem problematic.
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Hate to say it, but this makes sense. Allowing election judges to arbitrarily deny someone the ability to vote based on a subjective, non-expert diagnosis would seem problematic.
Yep. And then you have different standards across the state depending on who's watching the door.
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Then we should be advising all elderly voters to stay home.
We are. That's why the big push for early voting and mail in voting. If you're infected or afraid of getting infected, it's easy to vote without going to the polls on election day.
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The Secretary of State's office in Illinois can't afford to send out renewal notices for license plates or driver's licenses, but they sent both Glow and me notices via first class mail to our Wisconsin address (which we never directly provided to them) encouraging us to submit absentee ballots in Illinois. We had surrendered our Illinois driver's licenses months before.
And you are surprised by this because...?
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And you are surprised by this because...?
They are still registered to vote. They did a NCOA before they sent out the mailing. People often change addresses before they relocate for a temporary time (like snowbirds), so I really don't see the problem here.
If they vote illegally in Illinois, that's on them.
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The Secretary of State's office in Illinois can't afford to send out renewal notices for license plates or driver's licenses, but they sent both Glow and me notices via first class mail to our Wisconsin address (which we never directly provided to them) encouraging us to submit absentee ballots in Illinois. We had surrendered our Illinois driver's licenses months before.
Both your license plate and driver's license already have expiration dates on them. And everyone can sign up for email notices.
Do you think it's a wise use of your taxpayer money to snail mail people notices of what's already in front of their eyes and notices can be sent free?
Everyone is for government efficiency and cost-cutting until they're not.
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In Wisconsin, we are not allowed to turn anyone away at the polling place. Even if they are sick with every symptom of Covid.
That makes total sense to me. You can't have someone arbitrarily deciding if someone is sick or not. What doesn't make sense to me is not allowing polling places to require masks. There's nothing arbitrary about whether or not someone is wearing a mask.
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Both your license plate and driver's license already have expiration dates on them. And everyone can sign up for email notices.
Do you think it's a wise use of your taxpayer money to snail mail people notices of what's already in front of their eyes and notices can be sent free?
Everyone is for government efficiency and cost-cutting until they're not.
Everyone harps on the little things government spends money on - like first class postage!!!
Like they should send election notifications by bulk mail???
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Everyone harps on the little things government spends money on - like first class postage!!!
Like they should send election notifications by bulk mail???
Brother Fluff:
The issue is not the little things the government spends money on. It's the priorities on which they spend. The Illinois Secretary of State administers the records of the State of Illinois, including driver's licenses and vehicle registration. The proper administration of the voting rolls in Illinois is done at the county level.
What those who fuss about the Secretary of State are concerned about is not that the Secretary of State, by definition, is sending out voting reminders. Rather, that the Secretary of State is claiming poverty when it comes to doing his job but is spending significantly on something that is, at best, ancillary to his job.
When your State has a $146 billion public pension deficit and your public employees may lose their pensions because there is no money to pay them, then every expenditure matters. Every single one. Including the few dollars spent on get out the vote drives that's better spent by the two political parties.
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That makes total sense to me. You can't have someone arbitrarily deciding if someone is sick or not. What doesn't make sense to me is not allowing polling places to require masks. There's nothing arbitrary about whether or not someone is wearing a mask.
Agreed. Everyone should be required to wear a mask, sick or not. We are in the middle of a pandemic, for chrissakes!
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Brother Fluff:
The issue is not the little things the government spends money on. It's the priorities on which they spend. The Illinois Secretary of State administers the records of the State of Illinois, including driver's licenses and vehicle registration. The proper administration of the voting rolls in Illinois is done at the county level.
What those who fuss about the Secretary of State are concerned about is not that the Secretary of State, by definition, is sending out voting reminders. Rather, that the Secretary of State is claiming poverty when it comes to doing his job but is spending significantly on something that is, at best, ancillary to his job.
When your State has a $146 billion public pension deficit and your public employees may lose their pensions because there is no money to pay them, then every expenditure matters. Every single one. Including the few dollars spent on get out the vote drives that's better spent by the two political parties.
Yeah, I am not going to agree with this. It's a minor expense compared to the overall problem.
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Agreed. Everyone should be required to wear a mask, sick or not. We are in the middle of a pandemic, for chrissakes!
Thankfully, masks are required at polling places in Wisconsin.
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Brother Fluff:
The issue is not the little things the government spends money on. It's the priorities on which they spend. The Illinois Secretary of State administers the records of the State of Illinois, including driver's licenses and vehicle registration. The proper administration of the voting rolls in Illinois is done at the county level.
What those who fuss about the Secretary of State are concerned about is not that the Secretary of State, by definition, is sending out voting reminders. Rather, that the Secretary of State is claiming poverty when it comes to doing his job but is spending significantly on something that is, at best, ancillary to his job.
When your State has a $146 billion public pension deficit and your public employees may lose their pensions because there is no money to pay them, then every expenditure matters. Every single one. Including the few dollars spent on get out the vote drives that's better spent by the two political parties.
First, the Secretary of State is responsible for registering the great majority of Illinois voters, so I wouldn't say voting matters are "ancillary to his job."
But second, you can't complain about these letters while also griping about the lack of license plate and driver's license renewal letters. Well, you can, but comes off as complaining for complaining's sake.
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Thankfully, masks are required at polling places in Wisconsin.
Only for those working the polls. Not for those voting.
https://wqow.com/2020/07/31/masks-not-required-at-the-polls-on-election-day/
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Only for those working the polls. Not for those voting.
https://wqow.com/2020/07/31/masks-not-required-at-the-polls-on-election-day/
So the rule for voting directly contradicts Ever’s mask mandate.
Now that is a legit reason to criticize Evers.
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Frankly, much as I wish otherwise, I don’t believe you can require masks for voting, as a basic Constitutional right.
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Correct. And as a practical matter, you don't want poll workers enforcing that rule, and if you deny someone because of it, you have a lawsuit on your hands.
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Frankly, much as I wish otherwise, I don’t believe you can require masks for voting, as a basic Constitutional right.
I’m sure you are correct. But there is a way around it I would think. Have one line set up for outdoor voting - just like what I will deal with when I vote early this week.
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Frankly, much as I wish otherwise, I don’t believe you can require masks for voting, as a basic Constitutional right.
Wrong. Reasonable restrictions are placed on basic constitutional rights all the time.
You have a right to freedom of speech, but are prohibited from exercising that right to incite violence or possess/distribute child pornography. You have a right to 'bear arms,' but can be restricted if you are a convicted felon or want to own a functioning rocket launcher.
We are in the middle of a pandemic, and a state would be well within the confines of the Constitution to enact a rule requiring a simple mask to prevent spread of a deadly virus. Especially true given that there are easy alternatives, like absentee voting.
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Just voted. Two hour wait, not dressed for 45 degree and windy weather, plus started raining, get in only for them to have a breakdown about the fact that I reregistered at my new address but they had sent a mail in ballot to my old address because the new one wasn't updated in the system.
I feel for election judges, not really knowing what's going on and getting hit with a million weird technical glitches.
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Why would anyone wait in line for hours in the cold rain for EARLY VOTING???
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Wrong. Reasonable restrictions are placed on basic constitutional rights all the time.
You have a right to freedom of speech, but are prohibited from exercising that right to incite violence or possess/distribute child pornography. You have a right to 'bear arms,' but can be restricted if you are a convicted felon or want to own a functioning rocket launcher.
We are in the middle of a pandemic, and a state would be well within the confines of the Constitution to enact a rule requiring a simple mask to prevent spread of a deadly virus. Especially true given that there are easy alternatives, like absentee voting.
Not when the very order that requires a mask is under legal attack. This is a sensible way for dealing with this problem, especially if it prevents legal challenges to the vote. Considering few (if any) Covid cases were traced to the April elections, it's not tremendously risky anyway.
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Why would anyone wait in line for hours in the cold rain for EARLY VOTING???
I have my reasons
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I have my reasons
I'd like to hear them. Not trying to be a prick, I totally get why people want to vote early, but when you have a 2-week window, there can't always be lines.
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I'd like to hear them. Not trying to be a prick, I totally get why people want to vote early, but when you have a 2-week window, there can't always be lines.
wrote a sql query, on home internet they usually take an hour to fully load, polling place is around the corner and a neighbor said about 30minutes prior "there's only 4 people there", it was mid 50s and sunny when I went over, the line was long but figured "eh what the hell I have an hour" then by the time I was an hour in I was stubbornly too invested to turn around. But it got slower, darker, colder and wetter.
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wrote a sql query, on home internet they usually take an hour to fully load, polling place is around the corner and a neighbor said about 30minutes prior "there's only 4 people there", it was mid 50s and sunny when I went over, the line was long but figured "eh what the hell I have an hour" then by the time I was an hour in I was stubbornly too invested to turn around. But it got slower, darker, colder and wetter.
Thanks. Not how I roll, but I get it.
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Not when the very order that requires a mask is under legal attack. This is a sensible way for dealing with this problem, especially if it prevents legal challenges to the vote. Considering few (if any) Covid cases were traced to the April elections, it's not tremendously risky anyway.
Under legal attack, but currently still valid. Restrictions on speech and gun ownership are under legal attack all the time. And as I said, there is a very easy way to vote without wearing a mask - many of us here have done it ourselves. Sounds like WI is leading from behind again.
MN, on the other hand....
https://www.startribune.com/federal-judge-upholds-walz-mask-mandate-at-the-polls/572625761/
Anyhow, glad I already voted absentee....
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I voted while eating my lunch at my desk today. It actually took me nearly 20 minutes to do it as I researched info on various initiatives in the two voting guides sent out with my ballot. I felt I was fully informed in making my decision on which way to vote. I also pulled the trigger on a State Rep GOP candidate who had strong anti-Trump stances in his position guide, as well as fully acknowledging GCC. He'd be center-left anywhere else (he won't win here). I'll swing by a ballot dropbox on my way home, I registered my ballot for tracking, and in a few days, I'll know when it's been received and counted via text message.
Tell me again what's wrong with every American being able to vote in the same manner, Trumpers.
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I voted while eating my lunch at my desk today. It actually took me nearly 20 minutes to do it as I researched info on various initiatives in the two voting guides sent out with my ballot. I felt I was fully informed in making my decision on which way to vote. I also pulled the trigger on a State Rep GOP candidate who had strong anti-Trump stances in his position guide, as well as fully acknowledging GCC. He'd be center-left anywhere else (he won't win here). I'll swing by a ballot dropbox on my way home, I registered my ballot for tracking, and in a few days, I'll know when it's been received and counted via text message.
Tell me again what's wrong with every American being able to vote in the same manner, Trumpers.
As a fellow Oregon resident, I feel more informed about my local initiatives and politicians than ever because I can sit at my kitchen table and fill out the ballot, researching each one from the comfort of my own home. It is so, so much better. The only reason to oppose it is it means the wrong people will vote Billy.
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I voted yesterday in Chicago. I didn’t actually realize they were open on Sundays, my neighbor went and texted me, so I walked over. The dreary day combined with I think lack of knowledge the place was open meant no line. I returned my mail-in ballot to the judge and voted in-person instead.
Funniest part is the judge manning the door mentioned that his pastor gave him dispensation from Mass -I said that the Cardinal had already continued the dispensation, but he would only take it from his pastor because he is upset that his parish is being merged with another parish in about six weeks. So he wants nothing to do with the Archdiocesan proclamations lol.
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Yep. And then you have different standards across the state depending on who's watching the door.
The list of symptoms are a joke. I am doing PT at a medical facility twice a week and I am asked them every time. They are so ridiculously broad that it is almost impossible not to have any of them.
It's winter and I am an older woman. When do I not have body aches, a headache, and/or a runny nose?
BTW I was tested yesterday and I am still negative.
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My village .. is now at 65% voter turnout via mail. In-person starts tomorrow.
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I am still negative.
COVID or in general? ;D
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COVID or in general? ;D
Are you kidding me? Which Scooper has a more positive attitude than I do?
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My village .. is now at 65% voter turnout via mail. In-person starts tomorrow.
Very nice.
In Minnesota, 25% of all registered voters have already returned mail-in ballots. I can’t find numbers for early voting at the polls, but I have read plenty of stories of long lines since voting began.
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The list of symptoms are a joke. I am doing PT at a medical facility twice a week and I am asked them every time. They are so ridiculously broad that it is almost impossible not to have any of them.
It's winter and I am an older woman. When do I not have body aches, a headache, and/or a runny nose?
BTW I was tested yesterday and I am still negative.
The list of symptoms are the symptoms for the disease. Not sure why that's a "joke."
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Are you kidding me? Which Scooper has a more positive attitude than I do?
Me.
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About 150 million Americans are expected to vote.
Approximately 20% of them already have done so.
Some very interesting stats here:
https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/index.html
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The list of symptoms are the symptoms for the disease. Not sure why that's a "joke."
Perhaps I shouldn't have said "joke', but it is overly broad.
They are also symptoms of dozens of other diseases. Or no disease at all. Should everyone with a headache quarantine for two weeks?
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Perhaps I shouldn't have said "joke', but it is overly broad.
They are also symptoms of dozens of other diseases. Or no disease at all. Should everyone with a headache quarantine for two weeks?
IMO, the question of it being overly broad depends on what they do with positive answers...especially since you said it's a medical facility that would have the expertise to do so.
When they ask you the list of symptoms, do they tell you that you will have to quarantine if you answer any of them with a 'yes'? Or if you say 'yes,' do they ask for more context...like if you answer 'yes' to body aches, do they ask if they are constant or more than you might usually experience?
If any 'yes' leads to refused entry, then I agree it is overly broad.
But if a 'yes' just leads to further inquiry to flesh out the context, then it seems like a prudent step to take.
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Perhaps I shouldn't have said "joke', but it is overly broad.
They are also symptoms of dozens of other diseases. Or no disease at all. Should everyone with a headache quarantine for two weeks?
It's not about being quarantined for two weeks. It's about being tested. If you are feeling sick, even if you think its allergies, or just a cold, etc., that you should be tested. That's what they are getting people to do. And you should quarantine until the results come back.
My wife usually gets a bad cold around the beginning of fall. On Tuesday she started feeling bad, she was tested Wednesday morning, and got back the negative results by Friday afternoon. She felt better by Monday.
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My 75 year old mother was just admitted to the hospital. Unlikely she will be able to physically vote on 11/3. She talked about voting by mail, but never actually did it.
If you can vote early, do it.
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Is it too late for her to apply for a ballot?
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The deadline is nearing. She is not in good shape and can't have visitors. A fairly moot point.
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World Central Kitchen and Allie Boy's are at Washington Park Library in Milwaukee:
https://twitter.com/WCKitchen/status/1318557525869035520?s=19
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It's not about being quarantined for two weeks. It's about being tested. If you are feeling sick, even if you think its allergies, or just a cold, etc., that you should be tested. That's what they are getting people to do. And you should quarantine until the results come back.
Clearly you don't live with allergies, or any other "chronic" condition that causes similar symptoms. I'd have to be tested every day if I just went with things that I normally feel. I'd quarantine for until results come back and then have to go for another test immediately. It is important to be in tune with your body and things that aren't normal, but I've got allergies that cause asthma, and wouldn't be able to function with your specific guidelines.
Anyhow. Vote!
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My 75 year old mother was just admitted to the hospital. Unlikely she will be able to physically vote on 11/3. She talked about voting by mail, but never actually did it.
If you can vote early, do it.
Sorry to hear about your mom, tower. Be well, my friend.
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So glad I stumbled on this thread. I have been spending all my time on facebook and had no idea an election was coming up. I wish they would do some sort of announcement there.
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Excellent suggestions.
I would do at least 2 of the 3 -- call an elected official you think can be trusted, and let the local newspaper know.
If you voted though, TAMU, I'm not sure if those steps will "save" your vote or not. Weird stuff, strange times.
Oxymoron?
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Sorry to hear about your mom, tower. Be well, my friend.
Thanks.
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Sorry to hear about your mom, tower. Be well, my friend.
+1 be well tower
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Yes tower, hope she recovers
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Yes tower, hope she recovers
In and out in less than 10 minutes to vote early in-person in Racine.
Normally just one site citywide for this, but about 10 locations this year.
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That makes total sense to me. You can't have someone arbitrarily deciding if someone is sick or not. What doesn't make sense to me is not allowing polling places to require masks. There's nothing arbitrary about whether or not someone is wearing a mask.
They are required in Milwaukee and there will be masks on site for voters that show up without.
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They are required in Milwaukee and there will be masks on site for voters that show up without.
Again, I don't think that's the case. Unless this has changed...
https://elections.wi.gov/node/6981
Q: Can municipalities require voters to wear face coverings while voting at the polls on election day?
A: No, Commission staff have advised that only the Legislature can establish individual voter qualifications. The authority of the Legislature to establish voter qualifications is rooted in the Wisconsin Constitution. The WEC, along with state agencies, county or local governing bodies and/or election officials, cannot pass ordinances or establish rules that add qualifications for an eligible elector to cast a ballot. The Executive Order issued by the Governor on July 30, 2020 that requires face coverings in certain situations does not apply to voters. No voter should be refused a ballot for lack of wearing a face covering.
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Again, I don't think that's the case. Unless this has changed...
https://elections.wi.gov/node/6981
Q: Can municipalities require voters to wear face coverings while voting at the polls on election day?
A: No, Commission staff have advised that only the Legislature can establish individual voter qualifications. The authority of the Legislature to establish voter qualifications is rooted in the Wisconsin Constitution. The WEC, along with state agencies, county or local governing bodies and/or election officials, cannot pass ordinances or establish rules that add qualifications for an eligible elector to cast a ballot. The Executive Order issued by the Governor on July 30, 2020 that requires face coverings in certain situations does not apply to voters. No voter should be refused a ballot for lack of wearing a face covering.
I should've been more expansive. People without face coverings will not be allowed in polling locations. They may stay outside and have a ballot brought to them by a greeter. This is per the poll worker training I attended last week.
They cannot be prevented from casting a ballot, but they will not be allowed in the polling place.
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I should've been more expansive. People without face coverings will not be allowed in polling locations. They may stay outside and have a ballot brought to them by a greeter. This is per the poll worker training I attended last week.
They cannot be prevented from casting a ballot, but they will not be allowed in the polling place.
Gotcha. That makes sense.
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I should've been more expansive. People without face coverings will not be allowed in polling locations. They may stay outside and have a ballot brought to them by a greeter. This is per the poll worker training I attended last week.
They cannot be prevented from casting a ballot, but they will not be allowed in the polling place.
I like that plan. Good to hear voting officials have thought this through and come up with viable - and safe - plans.
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Oxymoron?
Who are you calling an oxy?
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This probably belongs in the "Vote - Humor" section, but...
Amy Barrett's response to written follow-up questions about whether things that are illegal are illegal.
“According to federal law, is it legal to vote twice in a single federal election?” asked Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.).
“As a sitting judge and as a judicial nominee, it would not be appropriate for me to offer an opinion on abstract legal issues or hypotheticals,” Barrett wrote.
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Annnnd ... here we go with armed thugs doing Trump's bidding to "watch" polling places.
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-pinellas/sheriffs-office-investigates-report-of-possible-voter-intimidation-at-st-pete-voting-location-pinellas-soe-says
Voter suppression is his only chance, and he very well might pull it off.
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Voter suppression is his only chance, and he very well might pull it off.
Fake news.
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Fake news.
Justin Turner disagrees.
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Boris and Natasha at it again.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/22/us/politics/russia-election-interference-hacks.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201022&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=41935&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
WASHINGTON — While senior Trump administration officials said this week that Iran has been actively interfering in the presidential election, many intelligence officials said they remained far more concerned about Russia, which in recent days has hacked into state and local computer networks in breaches that could allow Moscow broader access to American voting infrastructure.
The discovery of the hacks came as American intelligence agencies, infiltrating Russian networks themselves, have pieced together details of what they believe are Russia’s plans to interfere in the presidential race in its final days or immediately after the election on Nov. 3. Officials did not make clear what Russia planned to do, but they said its operations would be intended to help President Trump, potentially by exacerbating disputes around the results, especially if the race is too close to call.
There is no evidence that the Russians have changed any vote tallies or voter registration information, officials said. They added that the Russian-backed hackers had penetrated the computer networks without taking further action, as they did in 2016. But American officials expect that if the presidential race is not called on election night, Russian groups could use their knowledge of the local computer systems to deface websites, release nonpublic information or take similar steps that could sow chaos and doubts about the integrity of the results, according to American officials briefed on the intelligence.
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Annnnd ... here we go with armed thugs doing Trump's bidding to "watch" polling places.
I remember when the new Black Panther Party (unarmed but dressed in para military gear) were intimidating voters at polling places. Obama’s attorney general (and self proclaimed “wingman”) Eric Holder (unsurprisingly) declined to prosecute.
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I remember when the new Black Panther Party (unarmed but dressed in para military gear) were intimidating voters at polling places. Obama’s attorney general (and self proclaimed “wingman”) Eric Holder (unsurprisingly) declined to prosecute.
I know. For some people unarmed black people can be intimidating.
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I know. For some people unarmed black people can be intimidating.
I think for most people young guys (black or white) in para military garb (technically unarmed but at least one with a baseball bat) would be intimidating.
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I think for most people young guys (black or white) in para military garb (technically unarmed but at least one with a baseball bat) would be intimidating.
Paramilitary garb? Lots of armies wear black leather jackets, I guess.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Philadelphia_polling_place_security_patrols_2008.png/285px-Philadelphia_polling_place_security_patrols_2008.png)
Maybe you meant these bat-wielding young guys in paramilitary garb.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FWELjQUvWzg/Tb8z69R335I/AAAAAAAABkY/KyOJkliC6Bw/s1600/Camo.jpg)
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I think for most people young guys (black or white) in para military garb (technically unarmed but at least one with a baseball bat) would be intimidating.
So scary.
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I think for most people young guys (black or white) in para military garb (technically unarmed but at least one with a baseball bat) would be intimidating.
I would avoid anyone walking around with a baseball bat (or a gun for that matter)
But para military gear? That's business casual around here.
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Look at all the pics from Google (where Pak) got his) Pants tucked into army boots, a guy with what looks like a baseball bat, etc.
Look, I’m not trying to start a fight. If you guys honestly think those guys were there to hand out “Kiss me, I voted” stickers and not to intimidate people, so be it.
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Look at all the pics from Google (where Pak) got his) Pants tucked into army boots, a guy with what looks like a baseball bat, etc.
Look, I’m not trying to start a fight. If you guys honestly think those guys were there to hand out “Kiss me, I voted” stickers and not to intimidate people, so be it.
You've got a small leg to stand on but, and maybe it's just me, I'd personally find a bunch of people with assault weapons slightly more intimidating than a piece of sporting equipment. Maybe it's just a bit of false equivalency despite similar situations.
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Look at all the pics from Google (where Pak) got his) Pants tucked into army boots, a guy with what looks like a baseball bat, etc.
Look, I’m not trying to start a fight. If you guys honestly think those guys were there to hand out “Kiss me, I voted” stickers and not to intimidate people, so be it.
Just having some fun with your whataboutism, Lenny.
It shouldn't be hard to say, regardless of political leaning, that voter intimidation is bad, without dredging up something that happened more than a decade ago.
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Just having some fun with your whataboutism, Lenny.
It shouldn't be hard to say, regardless of political leaning, that voter intimidation is bad, without dredging up something that happened more than a decade ago.
No problem, Pak. And in the spirit of fairness, I was wrong about the baseball bat. It was actually a billy club.
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Fake news.
I mean, I don't think it's his only way. But if one of your overt tactics is to make it harder for people to cast their vote, and throw up a bunch of false fraud claims in the process, then you're really not much of a believer in the democratic process.
Socialists indeed.
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I just heard on NPR that military personnel stationed overseas can vote online.
Which means it can be done, safely and securely.
We all should be able to do it that way.
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I just heard on NPR that military personnel stationed overseas can vote online.
Which means it can be done, safely and securely.
We all should be able to do it that way.
ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... nope.
Too much room for chicanery. Unless we get a robust blockchain voting system.
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ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... nope.
Too much room for chicanery. Unless we get a robust blockchain voting system.
30 years ago, not long after Al Gore invented the interwebs, all of the stuff we are able to do online now sounded like something from The Jetsons or 2001: A Space Odyssey.
I'm hopeful that there will be a way.
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30 years ago, not long after Al Gore invented the interwebs, all of the stuff we are able to do online now sounded like something from The Jetsons or 2001: A Space Odyssey.
I'm hopeful that there will be a way.
Yep. I manage all my financial assets online, do the vast majority of my non-grocery shopping online, even bought a car online. I can find a hard-to-find old gizmo halfway around the world and have it at my front door in a couple of days without ever interacting with another human being.
In terms of governmental things, I complete and file my state and federal income taxes online. And if I wanted to pay a service fee, I could also pay my real estate taxes online.
And although I can't yet vote online, I went online to request an absentee ballot. Then after completing and returning the ballot, I went (surprise!) online to verify that the ballot had been authenticated and registered into the MN Secretary of State's voting system.
The fact that we can't actually vote online is a relic that will change before we know it. And someday our incredulous grandkids or great-grandkids will be amazed that grandma and grandpa actually had to go to a local school or church to fill out a paper form to vote.
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I know. For some people unarmed black people can be intimidating.
i'm just going to hang up and listen-
“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”
― Jesse Jackson
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More people have already voted early in Georgia than they did in all of 2016. Over a week of early voting to go there, also open Saturdays.
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i'm just going to hang up and listen-
“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”
― Jesse Jackson
At least you're unapologetically an a**hole.
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As of today, 47 million ballots have been cast, or 34% of the entire total in 2016.
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i'm just going to hang up and listen-
“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”
― Jesse Jackson
These days, the scariest thing is a white guy with a shaved head, beard, tats, an AR15, and access to the internet.
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Voter suppression continues unabated.
Republican lawsuits everywhere. Criminally slow mail delivery in democratic areas. Threats against democratic voters. Intimidation at the polls. Fewer polling places in black areas.
That is NOT democracy!
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At least you're unapologetically an a**hole.
Yes. Scoop has its racists.
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i'm just going to hang up and listen-
“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”
― Jesse Jackson
Lol. A quote from 27 years ago that makes you feel good.
You are something.
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i'm just going to hang up and listen-
“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”
― Jesse Jackson
Wow.
It’s sad that you are so proud of thinking that using some old Jesse Jackson quote gives you “permission” to be a total racist.
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Early voting numbers 18-29 year olds:
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If you are voting today, or if you know someone who is voting and in need of a free hot meal, these are some of the World Central Kitchen free hot meal locations today across the country:
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There have been nearly 60 million ballots cast so far, which is approaching 44% of the total vote count in 2016. And that’s without any report yet from New York (which began early voting yesterday), and with slightly delayed reports from most other states.
A total of 150 million or more seems very attainable. This level of engagement is a good thing for democracy.
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There have been nearly 60 million ballots cast so far, which is approaching 44% of the total vote count in 2016. And that’s without any report yet from New York (which began early voting yesterday), and with slightly delayed reports from most other states.
A total of 150 million or more seems very attainable. This level of engagement is a good thing for democracy.
Nate Silver has predicted 154 million voters.
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There have been nearly 60 million ballots cast so far, which is approaching 44% of the total vote count in 2016. And that’s without any report yet from New York (which began early voting yesterday), and with slightly delayed reports from most other states.
A total of 150 million or more seems very attainable. This level of engagement is a good thing for democracy.
But bad for the Republican Party.
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There have been nearly 60 million ballots cast so far, which is approaching 44% of the total vote count in 2016. And that’s without any report yet from New York (which began early voting yesterday), and with slightly delayed reports from most other states.
A total of 150 million or more seems very attainable. This level of engagement is a good thing for democracy.
One report I saw is an expected 66% voter turnout this election. 2008 was 62%. We’ll see.
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"There's no wrong way to get to the polls."
https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1320520594895622144?s=19
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Nate Silver has predicted 154 million voters.
I was just going to post that.
For perspective 2016 saw 137 million voters.
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45 is going to wind up being the worst thing to happen to both political parties. To Democrats because, well we are where we are now. And to Republicans because Democrats have waken up to the fact that we can wind up with an asshat in the White House if you don’t get out and use your vote.
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45 is going to wind up being the worst thing to happen to both political parties. To Democrats because, well we are where we are now. And to Republicans because Democrats have waken up to the fact that we can wind up with an asshat in the White House if you don’t get out and use your vote.
Dems should also learn that non-prez elections also matter. That’s when many statehouses are won, and they set the future through gerrymandering. The Dems did show up in 2018 to flip the House, but even that was motivated by disgust with the guy in the White House.
Just ... Vote!!
And that goes for Independents and Republicans, too.
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Indeed, this reminds me of a week after Gov. Walker lost in Wisconsin. He said something odd in a radio interview: It was his 3rd election in 4 years, and he'd gotten more votes in the loss than in the two wins.
I couldn't believe that, but he was right. Don't quote me on the numbers, but he found like 200k more votes than ever, but the Dems found 600k more, and that's all she wrote.
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My kinda-roommate MU '91 became a Jesuit .. he posted this tonight:
https://www.facebook.com/mcdsj/videos/10158706331623563
"On Voting and Hell." Worth a watch. Yes, it's on Facebook. No, you don't need an account.
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Some pretty amazing voting numbers here. In battleground states, 55% of the total votes in 2016 have already been recorded...with a full week to go before Election Day. In Texas, an incredible 82% of the 2016 total votes have already been cast.
Voters in Battleground States Are Driving Record Early Turnout
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/27/us/politics/election-voter-turnout.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
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With rampant voter suppression, it is important that as many people as possible vote as early as possible to make sure their votes count. Example, Supreme Court 5-3 decision yesterday in Wisconsin said absentee ballots will not be counted within six days after the election as a previously Federal Court ruled.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/supreme-court-wisconsin-absentee-ballots-ruling-against/
Today for example is the last day to vote early in person in Pennsylvania. Either bring your completed ballot and drop off or get a new one in person and vote today.
30 states require absentee ballots to be received by election day. Mail is only running 85% on time. Hand deliver those ballots if you can because it is just about too late to mail in many states.
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Attention Wisconsin Voters:
https://twitter.com/WisVoter/status/1321132711071895552?s=19
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Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't Wisconsin's vote-by-mail law always been that you had to have your ballot to the clerk by 8:00 PM on Election Day?
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I’m working a voter hotline and we are already telling people to drop off their ballots in person.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't Wisconsin's vote-by-mail law always been that you had to have your ballot to the clerk by 8:00 PM on Election Day?
Yes, but there was a proposal to extend it due to Covid (and the anticipated increase in absentee voting).
I would have liked to see the change...but don't see the Court's ruling as a huge deal. Anyone who has been paying attention should either have voted by now, turn their ballot in in person, or be planning to vote Nov. 3.
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Yes, but there was a proposal to extend it due to increased absentee voting because of Covid.
I would have liked to see the change...but don't see the Court's ruling as a huge deal. Anyone who has been paying attention should either have voted by now or be planning to vote Nov. 3.
I agree on both counts. I find the outrage over the Court's decision to be a little...much. My guess is that the outrage is more about spurning people to get off their ass and turn in their ballots in person.
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I agree on both counts. I find the outrage over the Court's decision to be a little...much. My guess is that the outrage is more about spurning people to get off their ass and turn in their ballots in person.
The decision actually is fine.
Kavanaugh's concurrence is trash. Gorsuch, regardless of his leanings, has so far proven to be a thoughtful, competent justice. Kavanaugh has proven to be a child allowed to sit at the grown ups table.
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The decision actually is fine.
Kavanaugh's concurrence is trash.
Agree on both counts.
It was alluded to a few posts ago, but I do think "suppression" and "disenfranchisement" get thrown around way too often after decisions like these. People had ample time to request and return absentee ballots, two weeks of in-person early voting, and election day. Plenty of opportunities to vote, at some point it has to be on the voter to actually do it.
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The decision actually is fine.
Kavanaugh's concurrence is trash. Gorsuch, regardless of his leanings, has so far proven to be a thoughtful, competent justice. Kavanaugh has proven to be a child allowed to sit at the grown ups table.
Nailed it. I think Gorsuch will continue to disappoint them by being principled (wrong, but consistently principled) on some landmark cases (like the decision whether or not to include illegal immigrants in the Census).
Kavanaugh (and ACB) are the worst sort of activist judges by which the law is distorted to reach their desired outcome
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Too bad RBG didn't resign during BO's time in office. Musta bin overly confident of a Hillary win or just plane selfish, aina?
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Why? McConnell would have just held up the vote until after the election. Like he did for Scalia. At least he is consistent about not wanting to have a Supreme Court nomination during an election year. Aina?
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Too bad RBG didn't resign during BO's time in office. Musta bin overly confident of a Hillary win or just plane selfish, aina?
Or maybe she had faith that the Republicans would have the best interest of the United States of America at heart, like the Democrats did in 1988 and 1991, and not turn the Supreme Court into a political organization, aina?
Now therein lies her mistake.
Is this where I play victim and say "IBTL?"
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Too bad RBG didn't resign during BO's time in office. Musta bin overly confident of a Hillary win or just plane selfish, aina?
Probably both tbh and that sucks for the left. Shame the right doesn't adhere to the standard they set months out from the end of Obama's 2nd term. Unless 250+ days out it's not ok to confirm a justice but it's ok 8days before an election with record votes having been cast.
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Supreme court OT -
We now have a majority of judges on the court appointed by presidents who did not win the popular vote during their election.
This doesn't feel like a representative democracy.
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Supreme court OT -
We now have a majority of judges on the court appointed by presidents who did not win the popular vote during their election.
This doesn't feel like a representative democracy.
Like pakuni says, the people that complain the loudest about representative democracy know the least about it.
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Like pakuni says, the people that complain the loudest about representative democracy know the least about it.
Thanks!
Please keep this in mind should the Dems move to expand the court.
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Thanks!
Please keep this in mind should the Dems move to expand the court.
Would this be a good idea?
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Like pakuni says, the people that complain the loudest about representative democracy know the least about it.
I'm no constitutional scholar, that's for sure.
Perhaps you, or someone else more knowledgeable than me, can explain why it's a good thing that the SC has judges with a majority of viewpoints not representative of the citizenry as a whole?
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Supreme court OT -
We now have a majority of judges on the court appointed by presidents who did not win the popular vote during their election.
This doesn't feel like a representative democracy.
We're not a representative democracy. We're a republic.
In a true Democracy, majority always rules. The majority tramples the rights of the minority because, well, they're the majority.
The electoral college is designed to give everyone a voice. Pure and simple. It means someone can't rack up a 60 percent plurality in California and trample the rights of Nebraskans, for example.
We have a court system to ensure the tyranny of the majority does not trample the inalienable rights of the minority. Just think of where we would be today without the courts and the federal government forcing Orval Faubus to uphold the law in Arkansas in the late 1950s. Or, if the President of the United States had not intervened in Alabama to ensure African Americans had the right to attend the University of Alabama.
That's what makes America great!!!!!
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Would this be a good idea?
I tend to think not, but fools that they are, Nancy and Chuck aren't seeking my opinion.
Breyer and Thomas ain't getting any younger.
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We're not a representative democracy. We're a republic.
In a true Democracy, majority always rules. The majority tramples the rights of the minority because, well, they're the majority.
Well thank God the founding fathers established a system where this doesn't happen.
The electoral college is designed to give everyone a voice. Pure and simple. It means someone can't rack up a 60 percent plurality in California and trample the rights of Nebraskans, for example.
The electoral college made a lot of sense when it was created, but it no longer does.
Rather than protecting the rights of smaller states, it now gives those states an outsized influence in the country's governance.
As a Florida resident, your vote counts less than a resident of any other state in the union. Your vote carries 1/4th the value as one from Wyoming.
We have a court system to ensure the tyranny of the majority does not trample the inalienable rights of the minority. Just think of where we would be today without the courts and the federal government forcing Orval Faubus to uphold the law in Arkansas in the late 1950s. Or, if the President of the United States had not intervened in Alabama to ensure African Americans had the right to attend the University of Alabama.
That's what makes America great!!!!!
I agree. But it's worth noting that the conservative voices of the day called this judicial activism and cried over the loss of states' rights.
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The electoral college is designed to give everyone a voice. Pure and simple. It means someone can't rack up a 60 percent plurality in California and trample the rights of Nebraskans, for example.
Actually, it was designed as a compromise between rights of individual citizens ('national powers') and the rights of the states ('federal powers').
Congress has two houses: members of the House of Representatives are apportioned based on population (a nod to individual citizens' rights to vote them in - national powers) and members of the Senate are apportioned equally to each state (a nod to states' rights - federal powers).
The Electoral College was intended to be a mixture of these two modes. Madison explains it better than I do in Federalist No. 39.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-10-02-0234
The next relation is to the sources from which the ordinary powers of government are to be derived. The house of representatives will derive its powers from the people of America, and the people will be represented in the same proportion, and on the same principle, as they are in the legislature of a particular state. So far the government is national not federal. The senate on the other hand will derive its powers from the states, as political and co-equal societies; and these will be represented on the principle of equality in the senate, as they now are in the existing congress. So far the government is federal, not national. The executive power will be derived from a very compound source. The immediate election of the president is to be made by the states in their political characters. The votes allotted to them, are in a compound ratio, which considers them partly as distinct and co-equal societies; partly as unequal members of the same society. The eventual election, again is to be made by that branch of the legislature which consists of the national representatives; but in this particular act, they are to be thrown into the form of individual delegations from so many distinct and co-equal bodies politic. From this aspect of the government, it appears to be of a mixed character, presenting at least as many federal as national features.
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The decision actually is fine.
Kavanaugh's concurrence is trash. Gorsuch, regardless of his leanings, has so far proven to be a thoughtful, competent justice. Kavanaugh has proven to be a child allowed to sit at the grown ups table.
Agree with this 100%.
Regarding the decision, I at first thought it was bad. Then red Robert's part of the decision and agreed with him. Kavanaugh's concurrence as you say, was trash.
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Would this be a good idea?
It’s not a great one.
But I think the hypocrisy of the Scalia v Ginsburg seats means a price will be enacted.
Honestly I think a better idea would be a gradual increase to 15 or so over the next decade. That way one seat is relatively less important.
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I don't think the Dems have the guts to do something so dramatic
They could have done just about anything when they had a supermajority under Obama and the gutsiest thing they did was pass a conservative healthcare bill.
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Move it to 13, to match it to the 13 Federal courts, just like when they moved from 7 -> 9.
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I don't think the Dems have the guts to do something so dramatic
They could have done just about anything when they had a supermajority under Obama and the gutsiest thing they did was pass a conservative healthcare bill.
That was all before the Republicans played “let the people decide“ in 2016, then ignored the people in 2020. Now that the Democrats have been stung, they might be more bold.
In hindsight, the Republicans may end up wishing they had confirmed Garland in 2016. With the two vacancies they have filled since then, that would still give them a 5-4 advantage, and make it less likely that the Democrats would expand the Court. Instead, if the Democrats decide to increase the number of seats now, the Republicans could quickly find themselves on the short end once again.
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I tend to think not, but fools that they are, Nancy and Chuck aren't seeking my opinion.
Breyer and Thomas ain't getting any younger.
what do you think the odds are that in the event of a Biden victory and Democratic capture of the Senate that Thomas steps down so Trump and McConnell can rush another appointment of a 30-year replacement?
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what do you think the odds are that in the event of a Biden victory and Democratic capture of the Senate that Thomas steps down so Trump and McConnell can rush another appointment of a 30-year replacement?
Not out of the realm of possibility, but the government will need to be open for that to happen. Current CR expires in early December, and if Trump and Rs in Senate lose, no reason for them to negotiate to keep the govt open.
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Supreme court OT -
We now have a majority of judges on the court appointed by presidents who did not win the popular vote during their election.
This doesn't feel like a representative democracy.
The bolded isn't really true. Alito was nominated during Bush's second term, and he won a majority of the popular vote in 2004.
Roberts and the three Trump justices are the only ones who were nominated by presidents who didn't win the popular vote during the term they were nominated.
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That was all before the Republicans played “let the people decide“ in 2016, then ignored the people in 2020. Now that the Democrats have been stung, they might be more bold.
In hindsight, the Republicans may end up wishing they had confirmed Garland in 2016. With the two vacancies they have filled since then, that would still give them a 5-4 advantage, and make it less likely that the Democrats would expand the Court. Instead, if the Democrats decide to increase the number of seats now, the Republicans could quickly find themselves on the short end once again.
I wasn't referring to just SC related moves. But also any legislation or other projects.
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The bolded isn't really true. Alito was nominated during Bush's second term, and he won a majority of the popular vote in 2004.
Roberts and the three Trump justices are the only ones who were nominated by presidents who didn't win the popular vote during the term they were nominated.
Mea culpa
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It took some voters 5.5 hours to vote in the Upper East Side of Manhattan today.
https://twitter.com/JeffHeckelman/status/1321163996641267715?s=19
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As a Florida resident, your vote counts less than a resident of any other state in the union. Your vote carries 1/4th the value as one from Wyoming.
Possibly, but because the Republicans and Democrats in my state are about equal, my vote matters.
Whatever my state decides may well elect the next President. That's because we're big and because our politics are lively.
The downside of this is we get bombarded with outright misrepresentations, lies, nonsense and glittering generalities on television. 24 hours a day of silly political ads. Would you guys PLEASE spend you money someplace else???!!!!
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That was all before the Republicans played “let the people decide“ in 2016, then ignored the people in 2020. Now that the Democrats have been stung, they might be more bold.
In hindsight, the Republicans may end up wishing they had confirmed Garland in 2016. With the two vacancies they have filled since then, that would still give them a 5-4 advantage, and make it less likely that the Democrats would expand the Court. Instead, if the Democrats decide to increase the number of seats now, the Republicans could quickly find themselves on the short end once again.
That would be perfect. Then, when the Republicans win next time, they could expand the court again. And then, when the Dems win the time after that, they could expand the court again. And so on and so on.
It will be cool to have 27 SCOTUS justices!
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Or maybe she had faith that the Republicans would have the best interest of the United States of America at heart, like the Democrats did in 1988 and 1991, and not turn the Supreme Court into a political organization, aina?
Now therein lies her mistake.
Is this where I play victim and say "IBTL?"
What a bunch of horse dung. The Democrats “Borked” out Reagan’s preferred nominee, forcing the next nominee to be a known moderate, in order for them to confirm anyone.
Then Thomas had to endure salacious accusations to try and nuke his nomination, and what he termed a “high tech lynching”.
Now Biden refuses to answer if the courts will be packed, the most brazenly political move that can be made to the S.C. He’s not even putting up the pretense of lying he and his fellow liberals won’t do so to shut our side up until the election.
Democrats just don’t want S.C. to be judicially conservative and rule by law. They’ve always wanted a liberal and activist court.
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It took some voters 5.5 hours to vote in the Upper East Side of Manhattan today.
https://twitter.com/JeffHeckelman/status/1321163996641267715?s=19
A friend who lives in Brooklyn voted on the first day (Saturday? Sunday?) and it took her a little over five hours.
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Now Biden refuses to answer if the courts will be packed, the most brazenly political move that can be made to the S.C. He’s not even putting up the pretense of lying he and his fellow liberals won’t do so to shut our side up until the election.
Democrats just don’t want S.C. to be judicially conservative and rule by law. They’ve always wanted a liberal and activist court.
You're so used to supporting a president who lies incessantly that you consider Biden's refusal to lie a character flaw.
Cult.
And you make a fool of yourself when you claim conservatives want a court that rules by law. They want every bit as much an activist court as the left. It's not a coincidence that they just nominated and confirmed a justice on record as being willing to ignore stare decisis. You can't get more activist.
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A friend who lives in Brooklyn voted on the first day (Saturday? Sunday?) and it took her a little over five hours.
P.J. Clarke's was passing out coffee and hot chocolate in the UWS in Manhattan today. They had about a 5 hour wait as well. (World Central Kitchen has also been all over the city with food and water)
Wait times have been significantly better in Queens. Going later in the day has had better lines too.
314,000 in first 3 days. Expanded hours now due to popular demand and added voting machines.
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Now Biden refuses to answer if the courts will be packed, the most brazenly political move that can be made to the S.C. He’s not even putting up the pretense of lying he and his fellow liberals won’t do so to shut our side up until the election.
Democrats just don’t want S.C. to be judicially conservative and rule by law. They’ve always wanted a liberal and activist court.
Regarding the first element. Maybe, he honestly hasn't decided yet. It is a massive decision with huge implications. It is something that wouldn't have even been a serious consideration 45 days ago. I'd hope he'd think long and hard about this before making a decision one way or the other.
Regarding the 2nd element. All judges say they "rule by law." Fact is, when push comes to shove on partisan issues, they all often "Rule by party." That's true whether it is a conservative or liberal judge.
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How's this...in an election year where one side will try their damnedest to win from behind and leverage the court if it has to, you have as many lawyers on the court who were involved with Bush v Gore as you do liberal justices.
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Eisenhower rued the day he appointed Earl Warren, and John Paul Stevens turned out much differently than expected. Somehow I don’t anticipate that happening here.
And I do regret that RBG didn’t retire when it was broached by Obama.
I suspect Breyer may well retire if Biden wins and the Senate flips, after the RBG experience.
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You're so used to supporting a president who lies incessantly that you consider Biden's refusal to lie a character flaw.
Cult.
And you make a fool of yourself when you claim conservatives want a court that rules by law. They want every bit as much an activist court as the left. It's not a coincidence that they just nominated and confirmed a justice on record as being willing to ignore stare decisis. You can't get more activist.
The liberal playbook just before a general election is to lie about their positions so they don’t expose themselves as the radicals they are. Biden’s already lied about not wanting to ban fracking, even though he’s on record proclaiming he wants to do exactly that, and he’s had to walk back his debate pledge to kill the oil industry. So why he’s not following suit about his position on packing the court is surprising because lying is what he does. And that’s solely why I brought that point up.
At least you admit the left wants an activist judiciary. You may not like arguments why liberal ideas you like aren’t constitutional, but that is not our sides version of judicial activism. The duty of The Supreme Court is to interpret and uphold our Constitution, not blindly follow legal precedent that goes against our Constitution.
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The liberal playbook just before a general election is to lie about their positions so they don’t expose themselves as the radicals they are. Biden’s already lied about not wanting to ban fracking, even though he’s on record proclaiming he wants to do exactly that, and he’s had to walk back his debate pledge to kill the oil industry. So why he’s not following suit about his position on packing the court is surprising because lying on his policy positions is what he does. And that’s solely why I brought that point up.
At least you admit the left wants an activist judiciary. You may not like arguments why liberal ideas you like aren’t constitutional, but that is not our sides version of judicial activism. The duty of The Supreme Court is to interpret and uphold our Constitution, not blindly follow legal precedent that goes against our Constitution.
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The liberal playbook just before a general election is to lie about their positions so they don’t expose themselves as the radicals they are. Biden’s already lied about not wanting to ban fracking, even though he’s on record proclaiming he wants to do exactly that, and he’s had to walk back his debate pledge to kill the oil industry. So why he’s not following suit about his position on packing the court is surprising because lying is what he does. And that’s solely why I brought that point up.
At least you admit the left wants an activist judiciary. You may not like arguments why liberal ideas you like aren’t constitutional, but that is not our sides version of judicial activism. The duty of The Supreme Court is to interpret and uphold our Constitution, not blindly follow legal precedent that goes against our Constitution.
You clearly don't understand Constitutional law or how the court works.
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Yes, Biden said he wanted to ban fracking...on federal lands. Kind of an important qualifier there.
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Yes, Biden said he wanted to ban fracking...on federal lands. Kind of an important qualifier there.
His campaign, as it usually has to in most things he says, clarified that aspect later, after he had said in primary debates no more fracking period.
Kind of an important qualifier there.
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You now have a Big Guy who's a traitor and sold out the U.S.A. for personal gain. Bobulinski is the 2020 version of Monica's blue dress, aina?
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The liberal playbook just before a general election is to lie about their positions so they don’t expose themselves as the radicals they are. Biden’s already lied about not wanting to ban fracking, even though he’s on record proclaiming he wants to do exactly that, and he’s had to walk back his debate pledge to kill the oil industry. So why he’s not following suit about his position on packing the court is surprising because lying is what he does. And that’s solely why I brought that point up.
At least you admit the left wants an activist judiciary. You may not like arguments why liberal ideas you like aren’t constitutional, but that is not our sides version of judicial activism. The duty of The Supreme Court is to interpret and uphold our Constitution, not blindly follow legal precedent that goes against our Constitution.
Lol!
You now have a Big Guy who's a traitor and sold out the U.S.A. for personal gain. Bobulinski is the 2020 version of Monica's blue dress, aina?
Also lol! I love this stuff. Let me know when the President of the United States of America is paying more in taxes to the USA than he is to China. Then I’ll worry about a sellout running our country.
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You now have a Big Guy who's a traitor and sold out the U.S.A. for personal gain. Bobulinski is the 2020 version of Monica's blue dress, aina?
Man, have I got some news for you about the family of grifters in the White House right now, aina?
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What a bunch of horse dung. The Democrats “Borked” out Reagan’s preferred nominee, forcing the next nominee to be a known moderate, in order for them to confirm anyone.
Then Thomas had to endure salacious accusations to try and nuke his nomination, and what he termed a “high tech lynching”.
Now Biden refuses to answer if the courts will be packed, the most brazenly political move that can be made to the S.C. He’s not even putting up the pretense of lying he and his fellow liberals won’t do so to shut our side up until the election.
Democrats just don’t want S.C. to be judicially conservative and rule by law. They’ve always wanted a liberal and activist court.
Any conservative who talks about "rule of law" with a straight face these days makes me laugh.
Anyway, I do agree with you on Bork. But Thomas should have never been nominated nor approved. Textbook sexual harrassment, not to mention he was under qualified as a judge.
Look, I know when Republicans are in power they are going to nominate justices whose rulings I am not going to particularly like. But I would much rather justices who have a judicial philosophy that is consistently applied to the case in front of them (Roberts and Gorsuch for example) than someone whose philosophy seems to ebb and flow depending on the politics involved. (Thomas and Kavanaugh)
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You now have a Big Guy who's a traitor and sold out the U.S.A. for personal gain. Bobulinski is the 2020 version of Monica's blue dress, aina?
This is exactly why I have lost faith in a good portion of our country right now. For anyone to say that Biden "sold out" when he has been very forthcoming about his income (he released his tax returns right?) while the evidence is pretty enormous that the current occupant of the White House has used his position to attempt to enrich himself, is just a great example of how people turn off their logic button to justify how they voted (or will vote.)
And anyway, you should be outraged at this as well.
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1321419565738397697?s=20
But at least he didn't park sideways in a Walgreen's parking lot ai''na?
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From the NYT morning brief so no link:
The fight over voting
Democrats and Republicans are engaged in a furious struggle over voting rights. In almost every instance, Democrats are trying to make it easier for Americans to cast ballots, and Republicans are trying to make it harder.
Much of the fight involves voting by mail, which many people would prefer to do this year, to minimize their risk of contracting the coronavirus at a polling place. Lawyers have already filed more than 300 lawsuits, across 44 states, over issues related to pandemic voting. The most important cases are in the battleground states on which the presidential election or Senate control could hinge.
Here are the latest developments:
Pennsylvania: The state’s highest court has ruled that election officials should count mailed ballots that arrive up to three days after Election Day. Pennsylvania Republicans are trying to get the Supreme Court to reverse the order, so that only ballots received by Election Day will count.
North Carolina: Republicans and the Trump campaign have asked the Supreme Court to block the state’s board of elections from extending the deadline to receive mail ballots. The board has said ballots can arrive until Nov. 12, as long as they were mailed by Election Day.
Wisconsin: The five Republican-appointed justices on the Supreme Court sided on Monday with Republican officials in Wisconsin, ruling that ballots must arrive by 8 p.m. on Election Day to count. (A lower-court ruling would have allowed state officials to count any mailed ballots postmarked by Election Day and received up to six days later.) In response, the state’s Democratic Party is urging voters to return mail ballots in person — to a drop box or clerk’s office — rather than mailing them.
Nevada: The Trump campaign has sued to stop the counting of absentee ballots in the Las Vegas area, evidently hoping to challenge the signatures on many ballots. Last night, the campaign and Nevada Republican Party filed a separate lawsuit, seeking detailed information on the vote-counting process.
Texas: The state’s top court yesterday upheld a policy announced by Greg Abbott, the Republican governor, which limits each county to a single drop-off box for mailed ballots. The state’s largest county — Harris, which includes Houston — is home to 4.7 million people.
Michigan: A conservative judge yesterday overturned an order by Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, a Democrat, and ruled that people could carry unconcealed guns at polling places on Election Day.
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I don't think the strategy of limiting those who can vote, making it harder for people to vote, and putting limits on how and when votes can be counted, is a long-term winner.
Eventually broadening your appeal is going to have to be the way to grow your party.
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The liberal playbook just before a general election is to lie about their positions so they don’t expose themselves as the radicals they are. Biden’s already lied about not wanting to ban fracking, even though he’s on record proclaiming he wants to do exactly that, and he’s had to walk back his debate pledge to kill the oil industry. So why he’s not following suit about his position on packing the court is surprising because lying is what he does. And that’s solely why I brought that point up.
At least you admit the left wants an activist judiciary. You may not like arguments why liberal ideas you like aren’t constitutional, but that is not our sides version of judicial activism. The duty of The Supreme Court is to interpret and uphold our Constitution, not blindly follow legal precedent that goes against our Constitution.
I just want to make sure I understand your position: Lying is bad, really, really bad, and no one should vote for a candidate that lies, is that correct?
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I just want to make sure I understand your position: Lying is bad, really, really bad, and no one should vote for candidate the lies, is that correct?
Absolutely hysterical that 45 is able to brainwash people like this. The things that have been staring them in the face with 45 are now becoming issues with our political leaders in this country?
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The need for people to not admit they were wrong, or to justify why they are going to act how they will act, is a strong one.
At least people who say say "F*ck it. I don't care about any of that. I want to own the libs." is being more consistent than someone who looks at the speck of sawdust in their brother’s eye and pays no attention to the plank in their own.
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The downside of this is we get bombarded with outright misrepresentations, lies, nonsense and glittering generalities on television. 24 hours a day of silly political ads. Would you guys PLEASE spend you money someplace else???!!!!
like that only happens in FL?
I can't wait for regular ads to return next week lol
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Pretty sure Scoop's second-most grammatically challenged plaque scraper is just trolling at this point.
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I don't think the strategy of limiting those who can vote, making it harder for people to vote, and putting limits on how and when votes can be counted, is a long-term winner.
Eventually broadening your appeal is going to have to be the way to grow your party.
Yep.
This sums up where Trump has put the GOP:
@JimVandeHei
🚨 Trump’s GOP relies almost exclusively on a shrinking demographic (white men), living in shrinking areas (small, rural towns), creating a reliance on people with shrinking incomes (white workers without college degrees) to survive.
https://www.axios.com/republican-voters-rural-suburbs-future-trump-38bd5273-7584-4d69-834d-dc4d9e3c8ac8.html
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Yep.
This sums up where Trump has put the GOP:
@JimVandeHei
🚨 Trump’s GOP relies almost exclusively on a shrinking demographic (white men), living in shrinking areas (small, rural towns), creating a reliance on people with shrinking incomes (white workers without college degrees) to survive.
https://www.axios.com/republican-voters-rural-suburbs-future-trump-38bd5273-7584-4d69-834d-dc4d9e3c8ac8.html
And weirdly dentists seem to be a big portion of those demographics. Even beyond scoop.
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The liberal playbook just before a general election is to lie about their positions so they don’t expose themselves as the radicals they are. Biden’s already lied about not wanting to ban fracking, even though he’s on record proclaiming he wants to do exactly that, and he’s had to walk back his debate pledge to kill the oil industry. So why he’s not following suit about his position on packing the court is surprising because lying is what he does. And that’s solely why I brought that point up.
At least you admit the left wants an activist judiciary. You may not like arguments why liberal ideas you like aren’t constitutional, but that is not our sides version of judicial activism. The duty of The Supreme Court is to interpret and uphold our Constitution, not blindly follow legal precedent that goes against our Constitution.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/01/joe-biden/fact-checkin-joe-biden-pa-his-fracking-policy/
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You now have a Big Guy who's a traitor and sold out the U.S.A. for personal gain. Bobulinski is the 2020 version of Monica's blue dress, aina?
AND, NO ONE COVERED THE STORY except fox news. this is exactly why i continue to say "journalism" is dead. people don't realize that if they can withhold this from the public, what else can they/do they withhold. are they telling the american people the truth? all i ask is that everything is presented so people can make an informed choice based on their belief system
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AND, NO ONE COVERED THE STORY except fox news. this is exactly why i continue to say "journalism" is dead. people don't realize that if they can withhold this from the public, what else can they/do they withhold. are they telling the american people the truth? all i ask is that everything is presented so people can make an informed choice based on their belief system
The news division of Fox passed on the story. The Wall Street Journal went through Bobulinski’s claims and shrugged their shoulders.
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Yeah butt, Biden will bring honor and stability to the presidency. He such a nice man. Devoted his entire life's work to the American people, hey?
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Yeah butt, Biden will bring honor and stability to the presidency. He such a nice man. Devoted his entire life's work to the American people, hey?
Yup
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Yeah butt, Biden will bring honor and stability to the presidency. He such a nice man. Devoted his entire life's work to the American people, hey?
Agreed.
AND, NO ONE COVERED THE STORY except fox news. this is exactly why i continue to say "journalism" is dead. people don't realize that if they can withhold this from the public, what else can they/do they withhold. are they telling the american people the truth? all i ask is that everything is presented so people can make an informed choice based on their belief system
What is Trump hiding by withholding his tax returns from the public? Is he telling the American people the truth? I'd love to make an informed choice based on my belief system, but I haven't been presented with the information I need.
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Only 43% of Philadelphia USPS first class mail is being delivered on time.
https://twitter.com/Dan_F_Jacobson/status/1321466466244403201?s=19
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AND, NO ONE COVERED THE STORY except fox news. this is exactly why i continue to say "journalism" is dead. people don't realize that if they can withhold this from the public, what else can they/do they withhold. are they telling the american people the truth? all i ask is that everything is presented so people can make an informed choice based on their belief system
Simple question: Do you believe Fox News to be fair, unbiased and properly fact checked news?
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Biden will never fulfill his term. Since it is evident he isn't physically or mentally capable, he's merely an electable conduit for the Squad and other radicals. He'll take their deal and buyout, Harris becomes da Prez and the U.S. and all it fought for and stands for, is flushed forever more, hey?
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AND, NO ONE COVERED THE STORY except fox news. this is exactly why i continue to say "journalism" is dead. people don't realize that if they can withhold this from the public, what else can they/do they withhold. are they telling the american people the truth? all i ask is that everything is presented so people can make an informed choice based on their belief system
The conservative-leaning, Rupert Murdoch-owned Wall Street Journal covered the story.
And determined it was false.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/hunter-bidens-ex-business-partner-alleges-father-knew-about-venture-11603421247
The notion that media organizations are somehow obliged to report every
scurrilous allegation, crackpot theory and baseless conspiracy theory - facts be damned - is about the dumbest thing posted in this thread. And that's quite an accomplishment.
Four years ago, every major media organization - from the Times to the Post to CNN - took a pass on reporting the Steele dossier just before the election because it couldn't be supported.
Do you believe they should have put it out there anyhow?
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Biden will never fulfill his term. Since it is evident he isn't physically or mentally capable, he's merely an electable conduit for the Squad and other radicals. He'll take their deal and buyout, Harris becomes da Prez and the U.S. and all it fought for and stands for, is flushed forever more, hey?
Been hitting the nitrous oxide a bit hard lately? Or is this something Q told you?
People who actually believe any of this are in no position to question the mental acuity of others.
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The conservative-leaning, Rupert Murdoch-owned Wall Street Journal covered the story.
And determined it was false.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/hunter-bidens-ex-business-partner-alleges-father-knew-about-venture-11603421247
Right. This is actually a great example of how journalism ISN'T dead. People looked at the story, determined it didn't hold up to facts, and didn't report it.
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Yeah butt, Biden will bring honor and stability to the presidency. He such a nice man. Devoted his entire life's work to the American people, hey?
Come' on, MAN 8-)
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The conservative-leaning, Rupert Murdoch-owned Wall Street Journal covered the story.
And determined it was false.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/hunter-bidens-ex-business-partner-alleges-father-knew-about-venture-11603421247
The notion that media organizations are somehow obliged to report every
scurrilous allegation, crackpot theory and baseless conspiracy theory - facts be damned - is about the dumbest thing posted in this thread. And that's quite an accomplishment.
Four years ago, every major media organization - from the Times to the Post to CNN - took a pass on reporting the Steele dossier just before the election because it couldn't be supported.
Do you believe they should have put it out there anyhow?
I can't believe the fake news media has covered up Pizzagate for this long. Terrifying.
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Come' on, MAN 8-)
You wanna do pushups?
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Removed. Not worth it.
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The conservative-leaning, Rupert Murdoch-owned Wall Street Journal covered the story.
And determined it was false.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/hunter-bidens-ex-business-partner-alleges-father-knew-about-venture-11603421247
The notion that media organizations are somehow obliged to report every
scurrilous allegation, crackpot theory and baseless conspiracy theory - facts be damned - is about the dumbest thing posted in this thread. And that's quite an accomplishment.
Four years ago, every major media organization - from the Times to the Post to CNN - took a pass on reporting the Steele dossier just before the election because it couldn't be supported.
Do you believe they should have put it out there anyhow?
but they continued to report russiarussiarussia without any substantiation for over 3 years. what is happening is NEWS regardless. your post pakman is beyond comprehension. what you are saying is exactly what has been happening for years except it is more blatant now. they have been reporting "facts be damned" on things they want(anti trump) and not reporting ANYTHING on biden except what flavor ice cream he picked out. they get some tough questions and their heads explode. why not ask uncle joe about mr bobolinski? when he has responded with another smear and russian disinformation campaign, that is another whopper
just saying, if we allow the media to censor their reporting, we've all lost our checks and balances.
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just saying, if we allow the media to censor their reporting, we've all lost our checks and balances.
So you're mad that the media isn't reporting on a story that has been proven false? Got it.
Answer my question ... should the media have reported on the Steele Dossier before the 2016 election? Or were you OK with them censoring their reporting then?
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AND, NO ONE COVERED THE STORY except fox news.
And you still can't understand why.
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but they continued to report russiarussiarussia without any substantiation for over 3 years.
There is plenty of substantiation that Donald Trump willingly solicited assistance from a foreign country to interfere in the 2016 election. There were multiple witnesses to attest to the discussions that took place. News organizations looked into them, and found them credible.
In this case, there is one person backing a claim. And that person has no credible evidence to back up his claim.
This is exactly what journalism is. Reporting credible news stories. Not reporting the ones that rocket the dentist wants reported.
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Since it is evident he isn't physically or mentally capable
The fact that you can watch him biking, jogging up to stages, and running up stairs, then delivering stump speeches and debate performances and truly believe this (if you do)...well, makes me wonder who the mentally capable one is.
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just saying, if we allow the media to censor their reporting, we've all lost our checks and balances.
What? Freedom of the press is all about "the media censoring their reporting." Do you understand the Constitution?
WTF do you think Fox News has been doing the last 20 years???
The media is allowed to report on whatever it wants. It's up to you as a consumer to determine what sources to follow to see if they are credible or not.
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NM.
Not worth it.
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And you still can't understand why.
Protecting the Big GUY. ;)
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but they continued to report russiarussiarussia without any substantiation for over 3 years.
False. But undoubtedly that's what you heard listening exclusively to Fox.
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Rocket and 4ever don't engage in discussion or dialogue.
Their posts are almost 100% trolling.
It's completely disingenuous.
Stop responding.
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That was all before the Republicans played “let the people decide“ in 2016, then ignored the people in 2020. Now that the Democrats have been stung, they might be more bold.
In hindsight, the Republicans may end up wishing they had confirmed Garland in 2016. With the two vacancies they have filled since then, that would still give them a 5-4 advantage, and make it less likely that the Democrats would expand the Court. Instead, if the Democrats decide to increase the number of seats now, the Republicans could quickly find themselves on the short end once again.
This.
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The decision actually is fine.
Kavanaugh's concurrence is trash. Gorsuch, regardless of his leanings, has so far proven to be a thoughtful, competent justice. Kavanaugh has proven to be a child allowed to sit at the grown ups table.
I actually agree with this statement also.
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Voter Suppression in:
Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Texas, Wisconsin.
https://twitter.com/AaronRHanlon/status/1321460351167352832?s=19
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Voter Suppression in:
Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Texas, Wisconsin.
https://twitter.com/AaronRHanlon/status/1321460351167352832?s=19
How is being allowed to carry guns to the polls an example of voter suppression? How is the Wisconsin example?
There are legit examples of voter suppression. Neither of these are examples.
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We're not a representative democracy. We're a republic.
In a true Democracy, majority always rules. The majority tramples the rights of the minority because, well, they're the majority.
The electoral college is designed to give everyone a voice. Pure and simple. It means someone can't rack up a 60 percent plurality in California and trample the rights of Nebraskans, for example.
We have a court system to ensure the tyranny of the majority does not trample the inalienable rights of the minority. Just think of where we would be today without the courts and the federal government forcing Orval Faubus to uphold the law in Arkansas in the late 1950s. Or, if the President of the United States had not intervened in Alabama to ensure African Americans had the right to attend the University of Alabama.
That's what makes America great!!!!!
I don't know what the answer is, but the current problem with the Electoral College that has only grown to become a problem the last 20-25 years is the size disparity between large and small states. There was always a disparity, but it was never this large a population size chasm so it wasn't an issue.
Since it seems states like Arizona, Texas, Georgia, North Carolina & South Carolina are trending "blue" albeit a little bit at a time that the issue may eventually correct itself.
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Biden will never fulfill his term. Since it is evident he isn't physically or mentally capable, he's merely an electable conduit for the Squad and other radicals. He'll take their deal and buyout, Harris becomes da Prez and the U.S. and all it fought for and stands for, is flushed forever more, hey?
you pay way too much attention to right wing news if you think "The Squad" has any real influence in the Democratic Party. They were all Bernie acolytes, how did Bernie lose if they run things?
The only thing AOC + 3 will accomplish is trying to make fetch happen.
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You now have a Big Guy who's a traitor and sold out the U.S.A. for personal gain. Bobulinski is the 2020 version of Monica's blue dress, aina?
we sure do:
NEW: Previously un-released documents show the government has paid $2.5 million to
@realdonaldtrump's businesses. Far more than we knew.
Trump Org charged $7,700 for a dinner, $6,000 for floral arrangements…and $3 for POTUS’s own glass of water.
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Sanders was never electable. As I said, Biden merely the vessel to move the process forward and then he'll exit stage left, hey?
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Sanders was never electable. As I said, Biden merely the vessel to move the process forward and then he'll exit stage left, hey?
Hah if his goal is to move centered Republicans more left and move the whole Democratic Party more left then he'll be exiting stage right
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How is being allowed to carry guns to the polls an example of voter suppression? How is the Wisconsin example?
There are legit examples of voter suppression. Neither of these are examples.
Anything that makes it more difficult to vote/to have your vote counted, is voter suppression.
Mail is not being delivered on time. Having something post marked no later than November 3rd needs to be counted. Some states don't even begin counting until November 3rd anyway.
Unconcealed weapons at voting locations have been used as a form of voter intimidation as well as voter suppression. Why does one bring an unconcealed weapon to a voting location?
Isn't goal to have as many people as possible vote, and, to have every vote counted?
Here's an additional year long investigation into Wisconsin voter suppression from PBS:
https://twitter.com/jelani9/status/1319629100563267584?s=19
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If you're looking for an all-too-easy metaphor for the Trump administration:
Hundreds of President Donald Trump's supporters were left in the freezing cold for hours after a rally at an airfield in Omaha, Nebraska, on Tuesday night, with some walking around 3 miles to waiting buses and others being taken away in ambulances.
Seven people were taken to area hospitals, suffering from a variety of conditions, and there were a total of 30 "contacted" for medical reasons, the Omaha Police Department said in a statement.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/hundreds-trump-supporters-stuck-freezing-cold-omaha-airfield-after-rally-n1245065
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Biden will never fulfill his term. Since it is evident he isn't physically or mentally capable, he's merely an electable conduit for the Squad and other radicals. He'll take their deal and buyout, Harris becomes da Prez and the U.S. and all it fought for and stands for, is flushed forever more, hey?
Stupid me! I always thought rocket was the dumb one. ;D
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There is plenty of substantiation that Donald Trump willingly solicited assistance from a foreign country to interfere in the 2016 election.
Hell, he asked for assistance live on TV during a debate with Clinton.
His campaign manager passed voter information to a Russian intelligence officer.
His son-in-law coordinated with Cambridge Analytica which passed the data on to another Russian intelligence officer.
In the middle of his term he said it would be perfectly fine to accept election aid from China and Russia.
He asked Ukraine to provide election aid to him this time around.
But I guess they never mentioned those things on Fox, they were too busy running stories NO ONE ELSE WOULD according to dental surgeon.
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Anything that makes it more difficult to vote/to have your vote counted, is voter suppression.
That's a really broad definition. So if I propose that early voting should start on July 4, but the courts for a variety of reasons don't agree, that's "voter suppression?"
There are legitimate reasons why certain regulations are in place. For instance, Wisconsin has always required ballots be returned by election day. In living here most of my life, this regulation has never presented a problem before. But Wisconsin also allows people to request absentee ballots pretty early, and has a lengthy in-person early voting rule.
People really can't complain that Wisconsin is making it "more difficult to vote" or "not have their vote counted" because the Court won't give them an extra few days to receive ballots. People have had a reasonable time to vote and make accommodations to do so.
By the way.... let's see what happens in cases such as Pennsylvania where state law allows ballots to come in after election day. In Wisconsin, the Court basically said "its up to the state and their regulations are fair." If the court proactively changes Pennsylvania law, THAT is an example of voter supression.
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Anything that makes it more difficult to vote/to have your vote counted, is voter suppression.
Mail is not being delivered on time. Having something post marked no later than November 3rd needs to be counted. Some states don't even begin counting until November 3rd anyway.
Unconcealed weapons at voting locations have been used as a form of voter intimidation as well as voter suppression. Why does one bring an unconcealed weapon to a voting location?
Isn't goal to have as many people as possible vote, and, to have every vote counted?
Here's an additional year long investigation into Wisconsin voter suppression from PBS:
https://twitter.com/jelani9/status/1319629100563267584?s=19
You are 100% correct.
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People really can't complain that Wisconsin is making it "more difficult to vote" or "not have their vote counted" because the Court won't give them an extra few days to receive ballots. People have had a reasonable time to vote and make accommodations to do so.
Mostly I agree with you, but this is the whole reason DeJoy was put into place to sabotage the post office. And it is working; see all the stories about how much on-time delivery has dropped.
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You are 100% correct.
Not really. Sure the goal is "to have as many people as possible vote and to have every vote counted," but there are REASONBLE regulations around every election. I think Wisconsin's regulations are reasonable. Showing up to drop an absentee ballot off in person prior to election day, when you have had WEEKS to return it, is perfectly reasonable.
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Mostly I agree with you, but this is the whole reason DeJoy was put into place to sabotage the post office. And it is working; see all the stories about how much on-time delivery has dropped.
I requested my ballot TWO MONTHS before the election. I received it on September 18. It was received by the clerk on September 30.
People have to have some responsibility to get their vote in on time.
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I requested my ballot TWO MONTHS before the election. I received it on September 18. It was received by the clerk on September 30.
People have to have some responsibility to get their vote in on time.
Dis right here.
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Not really. Sure the goal is "to have as many people as possible vote and to have every vote counted," but there are REASONBLE regulations around every election. I think Wisconsin's regulations are reasonable. Showing up to drop an absentee ballot off in person prior to election day, when you have had WEEKS to return it, is perfectly reasonable.
Actually, really.
Previously, WI was not having the current problem getting mail delivered on time. New problem, new solution.
Previously, people weren't voting during a Pandemic. New Problem, new solution.
Some voters for a wide variety of reasons are unable to vote in person and/or drop off in person. Also, in some areas receiving the ballot took much longer than expected.
Votes postmarked November 3 or earlier not counted just days after November 3rd? Again, it is reasonable to count those votes, yes. Is everyone supposed to guess how slow thr mail is, one week, two weeks, and so on...
I'm all for encouraging as many people to vote in person as early as possible or to drop off completed ballot early. But it is unreasonable to not count those that arrive later than November 3rd, yes.
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Anything that makes it more difficult to vote/to have your vote counted, is voter suppression.
Anything? I used to vote at an elementary school 2 blocks from my house. Several years back, they moved the polling place to a church about 1 1/2 miles from my house.
Q: Is this voter suppression?
A: Of course not.
"Anything" is way too broad. IMO, changes made with the intent to suppress votes would generally qualify as voter suppression.
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I requested my ballot TWO MONTHS before the election. I received it on September 18. It was received by the clerk on September 30.
People have to have some responsibility to get their vote in on time.
To be fair. A family member (registered democrat) in a historically red state requested their mail in ballot two months ago. It kept on not showing up, and they were told that there was a backlog...this despite friends all receiving theirs. They finally received it a few days ago, but instead of sending a ballot, they sent a "mail in ballot request form...again." They were told it was a clerical error.
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Stupid me! I always thought rocket was the dumb one. ;D
C'mon man, is this the best ya got? Bring it, hey?
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To be fair. A family member (registered democrat) in a historically red state requested their mail in ballot two months ago. It kept on not showing up, and they were told that there was a backlog...this despite friends all receiving theirs. They finally received it a few days ago, but instead of sending a ballot, they sent a "mail in ballot request form...again." They were told it was a clerical error.
I was specifically talking about Wisconsin.
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Not really. Sure the goal is "to have as many people as possible vote and to have every vote counted," but there are REASONBLE regulations around every election. I think Wisconsin's regulations are reasonable. Showing up to drop an absentee ballot off in person prior to election day, when you have had WEEKS to return it, is perfectly reasonable.
In a semi-perfect world, you are correct. In a world where the president is sabotaging mail delivery, things are not so black and white.
Stats are out there and we can plainly see hoe Dem areas are affected.
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To be fair. A family member (registered democrat) in a historically red state requested their mail in ballot two months ago. It kept on not showing up, and they were told that there was a backlog...this despite friends all receiving theirs. They finally received it a few days ago, but instead of sending a ballot, they sent a "mail in ballot request form...again." They were told it was a clerical error.
That totally sucks. Hope they still go to the polls on Tuesday....
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Anything? I used to vote at an elementary school 2 blocks from my house. Several years back, they moved the polling place to a church about 1 1/2 miles from my house.
Q: Is this voter suppression?
A: Of course not.
"Anything" is way too broad. IMO, changes made with the intent to suppress votes would generally qualify as voter suppression.
Intent is implied. Not counting votes this election that arrive shortly after Nov 3, is in my opinion voter suppression, yes. Slow mail (intentional) Pandemic circumstances. It comes back to why we are here, to maximize voter quantity. That's why we are here.
Bringing unconcealed weapons to a polling place with an intent to intimidate is a form of both voter intimidation and voter suppression.
Your example may help some voters vote more easily, or there may be a good reason for the change. There are of course examples of reduced polling locations or location changes which do suppress some voting. Yours is not an example of that. Again intent is implied.
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Anybody who isn't ignorant knows there is significant voter suppression going on right now in several states. Some know it but publicly pretend it isn't happening.
One party is doing everything possible to suppress, and now they have a Supreme Court that will aid and abet them.
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Anybody who isn't ignorant knows there is significant voter suppression going on right now in several states. Some know it but publicly pretend it isn't happening.
One party is doing everything possible to suppress, and now they have a Supreme Court that will aid and abet them.
No question it is rampant, and always has been. I only had trouble with the comment that "anything" that makes it more difficult is suppression.
I also don't think the WI case amounts to voter suppression, because the law has always required ballots to be in by Election Day. And everyone who has specifically commented about Wisconsin (like Fluffy) has said it was easy to get the ballots in early as long as you planned.
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How is being allowed to carry guns to the polls an example of voter suppression?
Michigan militias were involved in the OKC bombing. Michigan militias were involved in plotting to kidnap and murder their governor. Michigan militias shut down the Michigan gov’t in their capital building.
And you can’t figure out why having armed Michigan militias at the polls could intimidate and cause fear for voters?
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Pokemon go to the polls
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you pay way too much attention to right wing news if you think "The Squad" has any real influence in the Democratic Party. They were all Bernie acolytes, how did Bernie lose if they run things?
The only thing AOC + 3 will accomplish is trying to make fetch happen.
Spot on
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Michigan militias were involved in the OKC bombing. Michigan militias were involved in plotting to kidnap and murder their governor. Michigan militias shut down the Michigan gov’t in their capital building.
And you can’t figure out why having armed Michigan militias at the polls could intimidate and cause fear for voters?
People have been able to open carry firearms to the polls in the past. This isn't new.
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People have been able to open carry firearms to the polls in the past. This isn't new.
Head in the sand.
As trump’s hand picked FBI Director says - these militias are the biggest threat to democracy in the USA.
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Head in the sand.
As trump’s hand picked FBI Director says - these militias are the biggest threat to democracy in the USA.
Sure. And if they show up to the polls and prevent people from voting, that's voter suppression. And there are resources in place to address that if it occurs.
But simply open carrying a gun into the polling place is not voter suppression.
It's pretty easy to figure out if you use logic. Which excludes you I know - you'd rather just rant.
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BREAKING: Supreme Court *rejects* Pennsylvania Republicans’ second attempt to block extended ballot deadline.
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People have been able to open carry firearms to the polls in the past. This isn't new.
and yet Hannity spent months obsessing over two unarmed members of the Black Panthers, who were designated poll watchers. standing by a polling site in Philly and Propaganda Barbie (in her previous life) made it clear such "intimidation" should not be allowed:
Fox News played up the NBPP incident for ages.
And here was pro-Trump pundit Kayleigh McEnany explaining his "rigged" rhetoric on CNN last Thursday: "I think he's setting up a scenario where he wants supporters to be vigilant. He doesn't want a scenario where there's New Black Panthers outside with guns, essentially, like, intimidating people from coming into the polls."
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/politics/presidential/20161024_GOP_poll_watcher_behind_2008_New_Black_Panther_video_is_anti-Trump.html
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The liberal playbook just before a general election is to lie about their positions so they don’t expose themselves as the radicals they are. Biden’s already lied about not wanting to ban fracking, even though he’s on record proclaiming he wants to do exactly that, and he’s had to walk back his debate pledge to kill the oil industry. So why he’s not following suit about his position on packing the court is surprising because lying is what he does. And that’s solely why I brought that point up.
At least you admit the left wants an activist judiciary. You may not like arguments why liberal ideas you like aren’t constitutional, but that is not our sides version of judicial activism. The duty of The Supreme Court is to interpret and uphold our Constitution, not blindly follow legal precedent that goes against our Constitution.
Imagine being this stupid, or lost. Pure fantasy.
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BREAKING: Supreme Court *rejects* Pennsylvania Republicans’ second attempt to block extended ballot deadline.
So they are being logically consistent.
My guess is this won’t stop the “the Court is helping Trump win” type articles however.
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and yet Hannity spent months obsessing over two unarmed members of the Black Panthers, who were designated poll watchers. standing by a polling site in Philly and Propaganda Barbie (in her previous life) made it clear such "intimidation" should not be allowed:
Fox News played up the NBPP incident for ages.
And here was pro-Trump pundit Kayleigh McEnany explaining his "rigged" rhetoric on CNN last Thursday: "I think he's setting up a scenario where he wants supporters to be vigilant. He doesn't want a scenario where there's New Black Panthers outside with guns, essentially, like, intimidating people from coming into the polls."
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/politics/presidential/20161024_GOP_poll_watcher_behind_2008_New_Black_Panther_video_is_anti-Trump.html
Ok. Not sure what this has to do with voter suppression.
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Sure. And if they show up to the polls and prevent people from voting, that's voter suppression. And there are resources in place to address that if it occurs.
But simply open carrying a gun into the polling place is not voter suppression.
It's pretty easy to figure out if you use logic. Which excludes you I know - you'd rather just rant.
Logic?
You are saying that no one would be intimidated and leave the polls when they see an armed presence that they know supports a man who has openly called for violence from his supporters?
Wake up, dude.
BTW, I hope I am entirely wrong, but the president has refused to say he will accept the results of the election. This is not editorializing or ranting. It is fact.
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So they are being logically consistent.
My guess is this won’t stop the “the Court is helping Trump win” type articles however.
No.
Nor the "massive voter fraud" claims from the other side.
In other news, Brett Kavanaugh is still a dummy. Supreme Court justices ought to be able to get basic facts correct. He got several wrong in his Wisconsin concurrence.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/28/politics/vermont-kavanaugh-voting/index.html
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BREAKING: Supreme Court *rejects* Pennsylvania Republicans’ second attempt to block extended ballot deadline.
From the NYT article:
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Wednesday refused a plea from Pennsylvania Republicans to put their request to halt a three-day extension of the deadline for receiving absentee ballots on an extraordinarily fast track.
The move meant that the court would not consider the case, which could have yielded a major ruling on voting procedure, until after Election Day.
Justice Amy Coney Barrett, who joined the court on Tuesday and who might have broken an earlier deadlock in the case, did not cast a vote. A court spokeswoman said Justice Barrett “did not participate in the consideration of this motion because of the need for a prompt resolution of it and because she has not had time to fully review the parties’ filings.”
It's only a matter of time before she gets involved in these cases. Obviously, it was crazy to hope that Barrett would do the right thing and recuse herself from all election-related cases, especially those involving the person who nominated her just last month.
Anybody who doesn't believe that she promised Trump (who famously insists on total loyalty from all of his minions) that she would rule for him in any case deciding the presidency or Senate ... I've got a new Foxconn project for you.
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So they are being logically consistent.
My guess is this won’t stop the “the Court is helping Trump win” type articles however.
You'll want to note that Barrett didn't vote because she hadn't had time to read the brief. So as I understand it, the vote was 4-4 with Roberts voting with the liberal justices. Presuming Barrett does not recuse herself on future votes, would you care to guess how she'll vote?
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You'll want to note that Barrett didn't vote because she hadn't had time to read the brief. So as I understand it, the vote was 4-4 with Roberts voting with the liberal justices. Presuming Barrett does not recuse herself on future votes, would you care to guess how she'll vote?
There were no formal dissents, though mostly because the court decided it was too close to the election for them to get involved.
I think what we've consistently seen in these election rulings is that the court doesn't look terribly kindly at late changes to the election rules enacted without the full legislative process, but won't interfere with rules that already exist, regardless of how they were enacted.
The other thing we've consistently seen is that Kavanaugh is the justice sitting in a corner wearing a dunce cap. (In case I haven't made my feelings known on that).
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From the NYT article:
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Wednesday refused a plea from Pennsylvania Republicans to put their request to halt a three-day extension of the deadline for receiving absentee ballots on an extraordinarily fast track.
The move meant that the court would not consider the case, which could have yielded a major ruling on voting procedure, until after Election Day.
Justice Amy Coney Barrett, who joined the court on Tuesday and who might have broken an earlier deadlock in the case, did not cast a vote. A court spokeswoman said Justice Barrett “did not participate in the consideration of this motion because of the need for a prompt resolution of it and because she has not had time to fully review the parties’ filings.”
It's only a matter of time before she gets involved in these cases. Obviously, it was crazy to hope that Barrett would do the right thing and recuse herself from all election-related cases, especially those involving the person who nominated her just last month.
Anybody who doesn't believe that she promised Trump (who famously insists on total loyalty from all of his minions) that she would rule for him in any case deciding the presidency or Senate ... I've got a new Foxconn project for you.
I don't know what went on between her and Trump, but it's not realistic to argue that a justice should recuse him/herself from ruling on cases involving the president who appointed them.
I have reservations about ACB's legal philosophy, but I'm not ready to cast her as some kind of uber-villain.
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I don't know what went on between her and Trump, but it's not realistic to argue that a justice should recuse him/herself from ruling on cases involving the president who appointed them.
I have reservations about ACB's legal philosophy, but I'm not ready to cast her as some kind of uber-villain.
I'm not casting her as a villain, uber or otherwise.
We will agree to disagree on whether she should recuse herself. I mean, Jeff Effen Sessions recused himself, and that issue wasn't nearly as big as this one is. IMHO. I respect you having a different opinion.
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I don't know what went on between her and Trump, but it's not realistic to argue that a justice should recuse him/herself from ruling on cases involving the president who appointed them.
I have reservations about ACB's legal philosophy, but I'm not ready to cast her as some kind of uber-villain.
Under normal circumstances, I would agree. Nothing about trump is normal.
He said, “I think this will end up in the supreme court." Then after saying that, he nominates a Justice immediately before the election.
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If you're looking for an all-too-easy metaphor for the Trump administration:
Hundreds of President Donald Trump's supporters were left in the freezing cold for hours after a rally at an airfield in Omaha, Nebraska, on Tuesday night, with some walking around 3 miles to waiting buses and others being taken away in ambulances.
Seven people were taken to area hospitals, suffering from a variety of conditions, and there were a total of 30 "contacted" for medical reasons, the Omaha Police Department said in a statement.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/hundreds-trump-supporters-stuck-freezing-cold-omaha-airfield-after-rally-n1245065
https://twitter.com/blaireerskine/status/1321394578952495105?s=09
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https://twitter.com/blaireerskine/status/1321394578952495105?s=09
An obvious parody. The sad thing is that it is the way millions of people feel.
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Ok. Not sure what this has to do with voter suppression.
it's in response to right wingers saying it's not voter suppression to have armed militia members at the polls but a black guy with a baton, that was a major scandal and textbook voter suppression.
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😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
https://twitter.com/kt_so_it_goes/status/1321612933370171393?s=21
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😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
https://twitter.com/kt_so_it_goes/status/1321612933370171393?s=21
I mean this group is getting weirder and weirder.
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There were no formal dissents, though mostly because the court decided it was too close to the election for them to get involved.
I think what we've consistently seen in these election rulings is that the court doesn't look terribly kindly at late changes to the election rules enacted without the full legislative process, but won't interfere with rules that already exist, regardless of how they were enacted.
The other thing we've consistently seen is that Kavanaugh is the justice sitting in a corner wearing a dunce cap. (In case I haven't made my feelings known on that).
They held up North Carolina's extended deadline too - including Kavanaugh this time. Here is how it is being interpreted by a federal law professor at UT-Austin.
Steve Vladeck
@steve_vladeck
The difference appears to be that a majority of the Justices are unwilling to disturb *state court* rulings with respect to deadlines for receipt of mail-in ballots, but willing to intervene where it’s only because of a *federal* court’s intervention that the deadline changed.
I hope not be be proven wrong, but the Court is trying to stay out of politics here. They are letting the states determine the parameters of how votes are being counted.
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😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
https://twitter.com/kt_so_it_goes/status/1321612933370171393?s=21
They're losing their minds.
@GreggJarrett: I find it odd, if not curious, that the moment I hit “send” on my column that’s highly critical of Joe Biden my Wi-Fi service disconnected. Inexplicably, it will be out all day. Never happened before. Probably just a coincidence. I drove to the local store and sent the column .
@GreggJarrett: BTW... I had to leave the house to send this tweet.
@GreggJarrett: I’m standing in the middle of the street, but will return home now. Don’t want to get run over! So, I won’t be getting communications. Sorry. I’m sure it’s just a communications failure. Or not.
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In Philadelphia, 1st class mail is on time only 42% of the time. Cleveland, Detroit, Miami are all similar.
THAT is voter suppression.
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In Philadelphia, 1st class mail is on time only 42% of the time. Cleveland, Detroit, Miami are all similar.
THAT is voter suppression.
I can't imagine the Miracle on 34th Street defense working these days.
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😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
https://twitter.com/kt_so_it_goes/status/1321612933370171393?s=21
So.....they needed to send their damning documents from New York to LA....and rather than scanning or faxing them....they shipped them?.....And no one made copies of the damning documents before shipping them?
I can understand someone quoting anonymous sources. But quoting evidence that you swear you had but was mysteriously stolen from you? That's ballsy.
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So.....they needed to send their damning documents from New York to LA....and rather than scanning or faxing them....they shipped them?.....And no one made copies of the damning documents before shipping them?
I can understand someone quoting anonymous sources. But quoting evidence that you swear you had but was mysteriously stolen from you? That's ballsy.
Lol I literally texted my friends exactly this.
But given what we've heard from the dentists and ZFB on here, I don't know why I continue to be surprised by some of the stuff coming from the Fox News crowd.
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They're losing their minds.
@GreggJarrett: I find it odd, if not curious, that the moment I hit “send” on my column that’s highly critical of Joe Biden my Wi-Fi service disconnected. Inexplicably, it will be out all day. Never happened before. Probably just a coincidence. I drove to the local store and sent the column .
@GreggJarrett: BTW... I had to leave the house to send this tweet.
@GreggJarrett: I’m standing in the middle of the street, but will return home now. Don’t want to get run over! So, I won’t be getting communications. Sorry. I’m sure it’s just a communications failure. Or not.
I saw a meme on this with Biden laughing with another person saying, "And then we turned his wifi off so he'd get run over by a car."
I'd like to know how he knows his wifi will inexplicably out all day. Such dumb people.
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😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
https://twitter.com/kt_so_it_goes/status/1321612933370171393?s=21
Of all the tools on Fox News -- and there are so many to choose from -- Tucker is the tooliest. At least Hannity and O'Reilly and Ingraham have a little talent. Tucker is kind of a whiny, just-sit-there Geraldo.
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So.....they needed to send their damning documents from New York to LA....and rather than scanning or faxing them....they shipped them?.....And no one made copies of the damning documents before shipping them?
I can understand someone quoting anonymous sources. But quoting evidence that you swear you had but was mysteriously stolen from you? That's ballsy.
Why would you fax or email for free when you can spend big $$$ for overnight shipping?
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They're losing their minds.
@GreggJarrett: I find it odd, if not curious, that the moment I hit “send” on my column that’s highly critical of Joe Biden my Wi-Fi service disconnected. Inexplicably, it will be out all day. Never happened before. Probably just a coincidence. I drove to the local store and sent the column .
@GreggJarrett: BTW... I had to leave the house to send this tweet.
@GreggJarrett: I’m standing in the middle of the street, but will return home now. Don’t want to get run over! So, I won’t be getting communications. Sorry. I’m sure it’s just a communications failure. Or not.
I can picture Jarrett standing in the middle of the street with an old rabbit-ear antenna duct taped to his head.
But for an even better laugh, find the clip of Giuliani yelling at Kennedy telling her what a great man he is.
The best and the brightest the Rs have to offer.
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From the Charlotte Observer:
Young voters in North Carolina are much less trusting than everyone else that this year’s election will be fair, a new poll reveals.
Results from a new Elon Poll survey, commissioned by The (Raleigh) News & Observer and The Charlotte Observer, indicate that nearly 70% of North Carolina registered voters trust that the 2020 election will be fair. But voters between 18 and 24 years old, the poll found, are about twice as likely as all other age groups to say that they are “not at all confident” that it will.
What’s making Generation Z so disillusioned with the electoral process? Jason Husser, director of the Elon Poll, said he was surprised to see such a large age gap with young voters being distrustful of the process.
It could be a byproduct of growing up in an age of social media and misinformation, he said, or perhaps the explanation is more simple.
“It could also be that older voters have more of a ‘been there, done that’ approach,” he said. “They’ve seen plenty of elections that have been contentious, particularly older voters who were around during the civil rights movement.”
Other questions in the poll offered some clues as to what exactly has young voters concerned.
Young voters, for example, were more likely to express concern that legitimate voters are going to be stopped from voting. They were also more concerned about foreign governments interfering in the election, or that the vote count might not be legitimate.
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I'm not casting her as a villain, uber or otherwise.
No, you're just calling her a liar, under oath.
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No, you're just calling her a liar, under oath.
Correct ... as was Kavanaugh, who already is proving himself to be a toady.
It's a big leap from "liar" to "uber-villain." If they were the same, then pretty much every politician in history would be an uber-villain.
Gorsuch shows promise of being an independent arbiter IMHO.
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Correct ... as was Kavanaugh, who already is proving himself to be a toady.
It's a big leap from "liar" to "uber-villain." If they were the same, then pretty much every politician in history would be an uber-villain.
Gorsuch shows promise of being an independent arbiter IMHO.
Well, I think you've gone past mere lying, though. You're suggesting that she conspired with Trump on some sort of quid pro quo, in which she promised favorable rulings to ensure his re-election in exchange for her nomination.
That's pretty villainous, if you ask me. Not to mention felonious.
Your Sessions analogy doesn't work. Sessions was a part of the administration under investigation and worked for the president under investigation. A Supreme Court justice is neither a member of any administration nor subservient to any president.
As for Kavanaugh ... not sure he's proven to be a toady. After all, he just ruled against the GOP in your state. But he has proven to be not very good at his job.
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Well, I think you've gone past mere lying, though. You're suggesting that she conspired with Trump on some sort of quid pro quo, in which she promised favorable rulings to ensure his re-election in exchange for her nomination.
That's pretty villainous, if you ask me. Not to mention felonious.
Your Sessions analogy doesn't work. Sessions was a part of the administration under investigation and worked for the president under investigation. A Supreme Court justice is neither a member of any administration nor subservient to any president.
As for Kavanaugh ... not sure he's proven to be a toady. After all, he just ruled against the GOP in your state. But he has proven to be not very good at his job.
OK. Have a nice day, Pak!
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Voting update:
https://twitter.com/DomenicoNPR/status/1321843310038831104?s=19
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Well, I think you've gone past mere lying, though. You're suggesting that she conspired with Trump on some sort of quid pro quo, in which she promised favorable rulings to ensure his re-election in exchange for her nomination.
That's pretty villainous, if you ask me. Not to mention felonious.
Your Sessions analogy doesn't work. Sessions was a part of the administration under investigation and worked for the president under investigation. A Supreme Court justice is neither a member of any administration nor subservient to any president.
As for Kavanaugh ... not sure he's proven to be a toady. After all, he just ruled against the GOP in your state. But he has proven to be not very good at his job.
Trump told people to vote twice. Barrett refused to answer if voting twice was illegal.
They are on the same page. Asking if voting twice is illegal is not a hypothetical or something she may need to rule on in the future. It is illegal. Yet she was afraid to say anything that might contradict trump.
His pick was made only with the election in mind.
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Trump told people to vote twice. Barrett refused to answer if voting twice was illegal.
They are on the same page. Asking if voting twice is illegal is not a hypothetical or something she may need to rule on in the future. It is illegal. Yet she was afraid to say anything that might contradict trump.
His pick was made only with the election in mind.
Election, ACA and Roe (and likely Obergefell).
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https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/29/trump-suppress-vote-win-433460
A look at the quiet part out loud.
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Election, ACA and Roe (and likely Obergefell).
I include Roe in the election column. We all know he could care less about abortion. His pro-life stance is just a con for christians to help get him elected.
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Trump told people to vote twice. Barrett refused to answer if voting twice was illegal.
They are on the same page. Asking if voting twice is illegal is not a hypothetical or something she may need to rule on in the future. It is illegal. Yet she was afraid to say anything that might contradict trump.
His pick was made only with the election in mind.
LOL, you guys are hilarious.
Yes, I am sure that they have a side agreement, despite her refusing to participate in two discussions regarding cases that eventually went against his interests, that she'll hand the election to him.
Christ and I thought Fox news was full of wacko conspiracy guys. No shortage of tin foil to go around I guess....
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LOL, you guys are hilarious.
Yes, I am sure that they have a side agreement, despite her refusing to participate in two discussions regarding cases that eventually went against his interests, that she'll hand the election to him.
Christ and I thought Fox news was full of wacko conspiracy guys. No shortage of tin foil to go around I guess....
I mean, yeah.
It's enough to say that she's super conservative, has a questionable legal philosophy and I have concerns about how she'll rule on important issues. Why do we have to go with "she made a secret and illegal deal to steal the election!"
As you note, she's already had two chances to make voting more difficult and - in theory, I guess - help Trump and the GOP. She passed on both.
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Last Marquette law poll has Biden +5 in Wisconsin
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Trump told people to vote twice. Barrett refused to answer if voting twice was illegal.
They are on the same page. Asking if voting twice is illegal is not a hypothetical or something she may need to rule on in the future. It is illegal. Yet she was afraid to say anything that might contradict trump.
His pick was made only with the election in mind.
Confirmation hearings are political theater and should be treated as such. They exist for members of the Senate to ask questions that they know they will never get the answer to. Because the questions shouldn't be answered by any judge. Nothing of merit ever comes to light at the actual hearing. They're full of loaded questions that the Senator asking wishes the nominee to dodge. Kagan, Sotomayer, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh all used similar lines to dodge questions.
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LOL, you guys are hilarious.
Yes, I am sure that they have a side agreement, despite her refusing to participate in two discussions regarding cases that eventually went against his interests, that she'll hand the election to him.
Christ and I thought Fox news was full of wacko conspiracy guys. No shortage of tin foil to go around I guess....
Reading comprehension. I never said they have a “side agreement”.
Trump has said he nominated her with the election in mind. You can use the googles tubes to find this out.
I did say she was afraid to contradict trump. I did not do what you pulled out of thin air.
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Look, I am not saying there was a "side agreement," in which Trump said, "I will name you justice only if you promise to decide post-election controversies for me."
But I do believe that during the vetting, he asked her questions about the election, and I believe her answers satisfied him to a degree that he felt very good about nominating her.
This president has given a loyalty test to just about everybody he has appointed or nominated for any position. And going into the nominating process, he stated on several occasions, publicly, that he had the election expressly in mind when it came to SCOTUS. That he didn't feel reassured after interviewing her seems unlikely IMHO.
But sure, maybe I am wrong. Wouldn't be the first time, and won't be the last. Maybe not a single word about elections or loyalty or any of that ever came up in their discussions at all.
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Look, I am not saying there was a "side agreement," in which Trump said, "I will name you justice only if you promise to decide post-election controversies for me."
LOL what? This is what you said:
"Anybody who doesn't believe that she promised Trump (who famously insists on total loyalty from all of his minions) that she would rule for him in any case deciding the presidency or Senate ... I've got a new Foxconn project for you."
So she promised something to Trump but didn't have a side agreement??? :o :o :o
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LOL what? This is what you said:
"Anybody who doesn't believe that she promised Trump (who famously insists on total loyalty from all of his minions) that she would rule for him in any case deciding the presidency or Senate ... I've got a new Foxconn project for you."
So she promised something to Trump but didn't have a side agreement??? :o :o :o
MU82 being MU82.
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Look, I am not saying there was a "side agreement," in which Trump said, "I will name you justice only if you promise to decide post-election controversies for me."
But I do believe that during the vetting, he asked her questions about the election, and I believe her answers satisfied him to a degree that he felt very good about nominating her.
This president has given a loyalty test to just about everybody he has appointed or nominated for any position. And going into the nominating process, he stated on several occasions, publicly, that he had the election expressly in mind when it came to SCOTUS. That he didn't feel reassured after interviewing her seems unlikely IMHO.
But sure, maybe I am wrong. Wouldn't be the first time, and won't be the last. Maybe not a single word about elections or loyalty or any of that ever came up in their discussions at all.
And what could possibly force her to keep her half of this agreement? Hope?
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Last Marquette law poll has Biden +5 in Wisconsin
The last Marquette Law School poll before the 2016 presidential election had HC + 6 in Wisconsin (46 to 40) over DT.
I do think Biden takes Wisconsin in this election, primarily because of the gender gap.
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LOL what? This is what you said:
"Anybody who doesn't believe that she promised Trump (who famously insists on total loyalty from all of his minions) that she would rule for him in any case deciding the presidency or Senate ... I've got a new Foxconn project for you."
So she promised something to Trump but didn't have a side agreement??? :o :o :o
Fair criticism.
And what could possibly force her to keep her half of this agreement? Hope?
I suppose.
+++
OK, I give. The new justice to the U.S. Supreme Court is absolutely beyond reproach when it comes to any matters regarding the upcoming election.
All Americans should be confident that any ruling she makes in favor of Trump will have had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he nominated her and rushed to have her seated before Nov. 3.
There. I feel better already.
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LOL, you guys are hilarious.
Yes, I am sure that they have a side agreement, despite her refusing to participate in two discussions regarding cases that eventually went against his interests, that she'll hand the election to him.
Christ and I thought Fox news was full of wacko conspiracy guys. No shortage of tin foil to go around I guess....
Hear, hear. Ders hope four ewe yet, Fluffster, hey?
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The last Marquette Law School poll before the 2016 presidential election had HC + 6 in Wisconsin (46 to 40) over DT.
I do think Biden takes Wisconsin in this election, primarily because of the gender gap.
There were a lot more undecided voters in 2016 and they broke for Trump.
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There were a lot more undecided voters in 2016 and they broke for Trump.
Oh, there's that and plenty more reasons why we cannot compare the years, but I still think polling is tricky with Trump because he's so unlikable as a person that people are reluctant to admit that they will vote for him as a candidate. But women (suburban women in particular), are pissed off at the way he's handled the virus.
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I'm not reading all the quibbling in this thread, just wanted to comment on the original topic and share that it took me nearly 5 hours to vote in Indianapolis yesterday.
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*double post
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Oh, there's that and plenty more reasons why we cannot compare the years, but I still think polling is tricky with Trump because he's so unlikable as a person that people are reluctant to admit that they will vote for him as a candidate. But women (suburban women in particular), are pissed off at the way he's handled the virus.
This.
Moderates seem to be reluctant to admit they are voting for Trump, for fear of being labeled a misogynistic racist.
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Oh, there's that and plenty more reasons why we cannot compare the years, but I still think polling is tricky with Trump because he's so unlikable as a person that people are reluctant to admit that they will vote for him as a candidate.
This theory has been studied and found to be mostly untrue.
Which isn't to say Trump supporters weren't missed in the 2016 polling or that they couldn't be missed again. It's just that, if they are missed, it won't be because they're reluctant to own up to their leanings.
For the most part, as Hards said, Trump won on the basis of a huge, late swing in undecideds ... a group far larger in 2016 than 2020.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/shy-trump-voters-polls_n_5f20b168c5b66a5dd63690f6
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-supporters-arent-shy-but-polls-could-still-be-missing-some-of-them/
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This.
Moderates seem to be reluctant to admit they are voting for Trump, for fear of being labeled a misogynistic racist.
This is a wildcard that we won't know the answer to until the election is settled. In that vein, this election is no different than four years ago, when Candidate Trump's misogyny infuriated millions of women. Opponents of Mr. Trump labeled his voters racists, homophobes, misogynists and just about any other -ism you can see under the sun.
The difference this time is that Mr. Biden learned from Ms. Clinton's mistakes. He's spending more time in Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan and a few other swing states.
The second issue with polling is the gradual reduction in land lines in favor of cell phones. With a land line, you knew who and where you were calling. So the call to an area of so-called swing voters was to a group of folks who, were in fact, swing voters.
With cell phones, it's another story. When you call someone in the 715 area code, you assume you are getting a voter in, perhaps, a swing area of Northwestern Wisconsin. In fact, you may be reaching someone in central Alabama. Your results may quickly be invalidated.
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*double post
Did you double vote too? Vote early and often!
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There were a lot more undecided voters in 2016 and they broke for Trump.
I was "undecided" in 2016, didn't like either of DT or HC. That was the 1st time I didn't vote at all, that's not the problem this year.
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Actually, it was designed as a compromise between rights of individual citizens ('national powers') and the rights of the states ('federal powers').
Congress has two houses: members of the House of Representatives are apportioned based on population (a nod to individual citizens' rights to vote them in - national powers) and members of the Senate are apportioned equally to each state (a nod to states' rights - federal powers).
The Electoral College was intended to be a mixture of these two modes. Madison explains it better than I do in Federalist No. 39.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-10-02-0234
The next relation is to the sources from which the ordinary powers of government are to be derived. The house of representatives will derive its powers from the people of America, and the people will be represented in the same proportion, and on the same principle, as they are in the legislature of a particular state. So far the government is national not federal. The senate on the other hand will derive its powers from the states, as political and co-equal societies; and these will be represented on the principle of equality in the senate, as they now are in the existing congress. So far the government is federal, not national. The executive power will be derived from a very compound source. The immediate election of the president is to be made by the states in their political characters. The votes allotted to them, are in a compound ratio, which considers them partly as distinct and co-equal societies; partly as unequal members of the same society. The eventual election, again is to be made by that branch of the legislature which consists of the national representatives; but in this particular act, they are to be thrown into the form of individual delegations from so many distinct and co-equal bodies politic. From this aspect of the government, it appears to be of a mixed character, presenting at least as many federal as national features.
Thanks for the citation. Anytime one wishes to discuss what the founding founders intended the answer is so simple; read The Federalist Papers by James Madison. It is a relatively easy read explaining somewhat difficult points, But Madison's prose is clean and to the point.
BTW,...Curiously, Madison never argued over democracy vs republic...this is an argument I have only seen in recent times. Seems democrats prefer democracy and republicans like republic...I wonder why?
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The last Marquette Law School poll before the 2016 presidential election had HC + 6 in Wisconsin (46 to 40) over DT.
I do think Biden takes Wisconsin in this election, primarily because of the gender gap.
I think aggregate polls are more reliable than a single poll. According to Nate Silver's 538 site, Clinton was ahead in WI 49.4% to 44.9% (a 4.5% lead) with five days to go. And he gave her a 83.5% chance of winning.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/wisconsin/
In contrast, Biden is ahead 53.5% to 45.6% (a 7.9% lead) with five days to go, and Nate gives him a 93% chance of winning.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/wisconsin/
As Nate says, there is always a chance as long as the number isn't zero...but Trump has a dramatically higher hill to climb in WI this time.
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I think aggregate polls are more reliable than a single poll. According to Nate Silver's 538 site, Clinton was ahead in WI 49.4% to 44.9% (a 4.5% lead) with five days to go. And he gave her a 83.5% chance of winning.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/wisconsin/
In contrast, Biden is ahead 53.5% to 45.6% (a 7.9% lead) with five days to go, and Nate gives him a 93% chance of winning.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/wisconsin/
As Nate says, there is always a chance as long as the number isn't zero...but Trump has a dramatically higher hill to climb in WI this time.
Yes, and specific to Wisconsin, the dramatic spike in COVID makes that climb even more difficult I would think.
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AND, NO ONE COVERED THE STORY except fox news. this is exactly why i continue to say "journalism" is dead. people don't realize that if they can withhold this from the public, what else can they/do they withhold. are they telling the american people the truth? all i ask is that everything is presented so people can make an informed choice based on their belief system
Oops.
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1321942389045497861?s=21
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Oops.
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1321942389045497861?s=21
But Fox News is the real fair and fact checked news though
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But Fox News is the real fair and fact checked news though
But fact checking is censorship!!!
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Oops.
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1321942389045497861?s=21
No shyte, sherlock.
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https://www.instagram.com/tv/CG5LvGbLCZf/?igshid=1u34xt1f8k437
Love me some Wes.
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Oh, there's that and plenty more reasons why we cannot compare the years, but I still think polling is tricky with Trump because he's so unlikable as a person that people are reluctant to admit that they will vote for him as a candidate. But women (suburban women in particular), are pissed off at the way he's handled the virus.
Since we're going full on political with days to go before the election (I guess we're allowing it, for a few days...who knows what the rules are here, if I only knew who ran this place). I understand the political desire to boil it down to a single, or few issues, but I think it's simpler than that (!!).
A sitting president with the (bad) approval/disapproval numbers of Trump has never made it past his first term (since these things we tabulated). The only shocking part about Trump is that his have been generally awful all along- in most cases there was some peak above 50% and a drop nearer the election.
Scroll to the bottom graphs "How Trump compares with past presidents" and click 8 years.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
LBJ may be an exception, but again, he had > 50% approval numbers for a good part of his first term.
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https://www.instagram.com/tv/CG5LvGbLCZf/?igshid=1u34xt1f8k437
Love me some Wes.
Suppression continues unabated. Hundreds of republican lawsuits around the country to stop fair counting of votes.
Even trying to suppress military absentee ballots. Go amurica.
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https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-6bc5-d2df-adff-6fdfff5c0000
Good news guys! According to this White House press release, one of the Trump Administration’s accomplishments was ending the covid 19 pandemic! It’s over! Free at last!
Think I can get my mail in ballot back? Trump definitely gets my vote for finding a way to end this thing!
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More of this, please
https://twitter.com/keithedwards/status/1321914961505890304/video/1
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Oops.
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1321942389045497861?s=21
As if facts will change their minds
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But Fox News is the real fair and fact checked news though
Most mainstream media doesn't appear to do a lot of fact checking
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More of this, please
https://twitter.com/keithedwards/status/1321914961505890304/video/1
Don't know that I've seen something like that before. Love it.
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Most mainstream media doesn't appear to do a lot of fact checking
Maybe the TV networks are getting worse, but the major written media (AP, Reuter’s, NYT, WaPo, LA Times) does a good job IMO.
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I think aggregate polls are more reliable than a single poll. According to Nate Silver's 538 site, Clinton was ahead in WI 49.4% to 44.9% (a 4.5% lead) with five days to go. And he gave her a 83.5% chance of winning.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/wisconsin/
In contrast, Biden is ahead 53.5% to 45.6% (a 7.9% lead) with five days to go, and Nate gives him a 93% chance of winning.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/wisconsin/
As Nate says, there is always a chance as long as the number isn't zero...but Trump has a dramatically higher hill to climb in WI this time.
To be fair, it includes an NYT poll showing a 17 pt margin that we all can assume is the ceiling outlier.
There are a lot of reasons why Biden is in a better spot (close or over 50%, less undecideds, favorability, the pandemic). But until they get the monkey off their back, no liberals are going to sleep soundly.
I also don't think Trump has a reasonable chance of winning outright. But a polling error plus disenfranchisement and attacking mail in ballots might do it
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You now have a Big Guy who's a traitor and sold out the U.S.A. for personal gain. Bobulinski is the 2020 version of Monica's blue dress, aina?
Sucker
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Off the wall prediction.
If Trump wins, and the Dems win the Senate (controlling all of congress), Trump will turn on the GOP and pass liberal policies to protect himself and his legacy.
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Off the wall prediction.
If Trump wins, and the Dems win the Senate (controlling all of congress), Trump will turn on the GOP and pass liberal policies to protect himself and his legacy.
If trump wins and Dems win the Senate, well, it can’t happen.
If enough votes are suppressed for trump to win, how do Dems win?
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Off the wall prediction.
If Trump wins, and the Dems win the Senate (controlling all of congress), Trump will turn on the GOP and pass liberal policies to protect himself and his legacy.
Not entirely inconceivable, if he thinks it will enhance his brand. Because that’s all that matters - the brand.
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https://www.instagram.com/tv/CG5LvGbLCZf/?igshid=1u34xt1f8k437
Love me some Wes.
Played golf with his dad yesterday.
Told his dad how proud I am to call to Wesley a fellow Marquette alum.
Dad told me that all the MU hoop players (not just the one’s Wesley played with) text each other every day, multiple times a day.
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There are numerous reasons why 2016 is vastly different than 2020. Off the top of my head, here are a dozen of them ...
1. There is not a visceral hate for the 2020 Dem candidate. In 2016, a huge percentage of the population hated, hated, HATED Hillary. There are plenty of folks who think Biden is too old, or too handsy, or too much a part of the establishment, but relatively few Americans "hate" Biden. As Lindsey Graham said in the best political ad ever made: “If you can’t admire Joe Biden as a person then you’ve got a problem. He is as good a man as God ever created.”
2. In 2016, Trump was a "concept." He was the outsider, the non-politician, the anti-establishment candidate running against an ultimate Washington insider. There was a significant percentage of the population that said, "I don't know if this boorish reality TV star is going to be any good, but I don't like Hillary and I don't like politicians and I don't like Washington, so let's see what he can do." We now know everything about Trump. We know exactly who he is and what kind of president he is. He is a totally known quantity, and he is historically unpopular. For example ... My best friend, a fellow Marquette '82 grad, admitted to his wife and kids and me earlier this year that he voted for Trump in 2016 because he hated Hillary and thought he'd give Trump a shot. A lifelong Republican, he said it was the worst mistake he ever made, and he is not only voting for Biden this time but has actually campaigned some for him. There are a good number of stories like his.
3. There is no significant 3rd party presence. It might not seem like Jill Stein got many votes, but she got enough in key battleground states from Hillary haters to make a difference.
4. Bernie's early, sincere, enthusiastic support for Biden should help Biden get many of the votes that Bernie's people refused to give Hillary in 2016. Many of the Bernie bros and babes who voted for Stein or Trump or nobody in 2016 -- enough to cost Hillary the election -- will be voting for (or have already voted for) Biden this time.
5. Hillary assumed she would win Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Biden has not made a similar assumption, and has campaigned aggressively in those states either in person, through surrogates and/or via the airwaves.
6. A significant number of Republicans, especially women, are disgusted by Trump and are going with Biden this time. The Lincoln Project, Republican Voters Against Trump and a few other Never-Trump Republican operations have helped take votes away from Trump and give them to Biden.
7. Trump decisively won the white vote in 2016, and easily won the senior vote. By all available measurements so far, neither will be the case in 2020. The only demographic that Trump easily wins are white men without college degrees. Biden is way ahead with women, young people and minorities, and is leading among white people with college degrees and seniors.
8. The groundswell for the anti-Trump vote was set in 2018, when Dems flipped the House. A surprising number of House districts that had voted Republican for decades -- especially those with majority women -- turned blue.
9. The Dems succeeded in making health care a major issue in 2018 and have amplified that in 2020, with Trump's help. To many voters, trying to take health insurance away from millions of people during a deadly pandemic, with absolutely no replacement plan offered, is immoral. It's an easy "sell" for Dems and Independents, and even many Republicans.
10. More than ever, it's math. There are more Dems than Republicans and more Independents than either. The fastest growing "party" these last 4 years has been Independents. And poll after poll after poll, for months and months now, have shown that Independents disapprove strongly of Trump.
11. The pandemic obviously is a major drag on Trump, and there was nothing similar to it in 2016. Depending upon which poll one looks at, anywhere from 55% to 66% of Americans think Trump totally botched the handling of it. Independents are extremely critical of Trump's response to the coronavirus.
12. As hard as Trump has tried, he has been unable to create the kind of October surprise that badly hurt Hillary in 2016. Very few voters who were undecided or leaning Biden have changed their minds due to the conspiracy theories being peddled at the 11th hour by the desperate Trump team. Tens of millions of votes were cast, mostly by Dems and Independents, before the hard-to-believe Hunter Biden allegations even started getting peddled.
None of the above guarantees a darn thing. After all, another major difference is that the pandemic is keeping millions from voting in person even as one party is actively, admittedly, working OT to suppress the mail-in vote. Nobody knows how that dynamic will end up affecting the outcome.
As a Never-Trump Independent, I am a nervous nelly because of that last point, but I do get a little smile on my face every time a Trump supporter's main argument for why their guy will win is, "Everybody was wrong in 2016, too."
It is not 2016. Almost everything is different now, and almost all of those differences favor Biden. So if 2016 is the big hope of Trump supporters, that's cool with me.
Either way, can't wait for this election to be over, whenever that turns out to be.
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Played golf with his dad yesterday.
Told his dad how proud I am to call to Wesley a fellow Marquette alum.
Dad told me that all the MU hoop players (not just the one’s Wesley played with) text each other every day, multiple times a day.
Sometime this year there was a Tom Cream interview during BLM protests and he said there was a "former player text group from all eras" and they were in regular contact.
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Played golf with his dad yesterday.
Told his dad how proud I am to call to Wesley a fellow Marquette alum.
Dad told me that all the MU hoop players (not just the one’s Wesley played with) text each other every day, multiple times a day.
Sumwon oughta let Woj inn on it, hey?
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Sometime this year there was a Tom Cream interview during BLM protests and he said there was a "former player text group from all eras" and they were in regular contact.
There is definitely a text group with the FfF team, and it includes Crean. That group is very tight, and they love crean too.
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There is definitely a text group with the FfF team, and it includes Crean. That group is very tight, and they love crean too.
Tom Crean was one of the best things to happen to Marquette
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Crean sucks
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There are numerous reasons why 2016 is vastly different than 2020. Off the top of my head, here are a dozen of them ...
1. There is not a visceral hate for the 2020 Dem candidate. In 2016, a huge percentage of the population hated, hated, HATED Hillary. There are plenty of folks who think Biden is too old, or too handsy, or too much a part of the establishment, but relatively few Americans "hate" Biden. As Lindsey Graham said in the best political ad ever made: “If you can’t admire Joe Biden as a person then you’ve got a problem. He is as good a man as God ever created.”
2. In 2016, Trump was a "concept." He was the outsider, the non-politician, the anti-establishment candidate running against an ultimate Washington insider. There was a significant percentage of the population that said, "I don't know if this boorish reality TV star is going to be any good, but I don't like Hillary and I don't like politicians and I don't like Washington, so let's see what he can do." We now know everything about Trump. We know exactly who he is and what kind of president he is. He is a totally known quantity, and he is historically unpopular. For example ... My best friend, a fellow Marquette '82 grad, admitted to his wife and kids and me earlier this year that he voted for Trump in 2016 because he hated Hillary and thought he'd give Trump a shot. A lifelong Republican, he said it was the worst mistake he ever made, and he is not only voting for Biden this time but has actually campaigned some for him. There are a good number of stories like his.
3. There is no significant 3rd party presence. It might not seem like Jill Stein got many votes, but she got enough in key battleground states from Hillary haters to make a difference.
4. Bernie's early, sincere, enthusiastic support for Biden should help Biden get many of the votes that Bernie's people refused to give Hillary in 2016. Many of the Bernie bros and babes who voted for Stein or Trump or nobody in 2016 -- enough to cost Hillary the election -- will be voting for (or have already voted for) Biden this time.
5. Hillary assumed she would win Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Biden has not made a similar assumption, and has campaigned aggressively in those states either in person, through surrogates and/or via the airwaves.
6. A significant number of Republicans, especially women, are disgusted by Trump and are going with Biden this time. The Lincoln Project, Republican Voters Against Trump and a few other Never-Trump Republican operations have helped take votes away from Trump and give them to Biden.
7. Trump decisively won the white vote in 2016, and easily won the senior vote. By all available measurements so far, neither will be the case in 2020. The only demographic that Trump easily wins are white men without college degrees. Biden is way ahead with women, young people and minorities, and is leading among white people with college degrees and seniors.
8. The groundswell for the anti-Trump vote was set in 2018, when Dems flipped the House. A surprising number of House districts that had voted Republican for decades -- especially those with majority women -- turned blue.
9. The Dems succeeded in making health care a major issue in 2018 and have amplified that in 2020, with Trump's help. To many voters, trying to take health insurance away from millions of people during a deadly pandemic, with absolutely no replacement plan offered, is immoral. It's an easy "sell" for Dems and Independents, and even many Republicans.
10. More than ever, it's math. There are more Dems than Republicans and more Independents than either. The fastest growing "party" these last 4 years has been Independents. And poll after poll after poll, for months and months now, have shown that Independents disapprove strongly of Trump.
11. The pandemic obviously is a major drag on Trump, and there was nothing similar to it in 2016. Depending upon which poll one looks at, anywhere from 55% to 66% of Americans think Trump totally botched the handling of it. Independents are extremely critical of Trump's response to the coronavirus.
12. As hard as Trump has tried, he has been unable to create the kind of October surprise that badly hurt Hillary in 2016. Very few voters who were undecided or leaning Biden have changed their minds due to the conspiracy theories being peddled at the 11th hour by the desperate Trump team. Tens of millions of votes were cast, mostly by Dems and Independents, before the hard-to-believe Hunter Biden allegations even started getting peddled.
None of the above guarantees a darn thing. After all, another major difference is that the pandemic is keeping millions from voting in person even as one party is actively, admittedly, working OT to suppress the mail-in vote. Nobody knows how that dynamic will end up affecting the outcome.
As a Never-Trump Independent, I am a nervous nelly because of that last point, but I do get a little smile on my face every time a Trump supporter's main argument for why their guy will win is, "Everybody was wrong in 2016, too."
It is not 2016. Almost everything is different now, and almost all of those differences favor Biden. So if 2016 is the big hope of Trump supporters, that's cool with me.
Either way, can't wait for this election to be over, whenever that turns out to be.
Every election is “different”.
As a counterpoint, yes, Trump was only a “concept” in 2016. But by 2020, his list of accomplishments (a booming economy, higher wages, record low unemployment among Blacks and Latinos, prison reform, enterprise zones, etc.,) were tangibles. As for 2018, how many Dems deserted Obama in 2010? And he won handily in 2012.
Bottom line - Trump was a near shoe in pre Covid. Post Covid he’s a long shot. Black swan events change things.
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Every election is “different”.
As a counterpoint, yes, Trump was only a “concept” in 2016. But by 2020, his list of accomplishments (a booming economy, higher wages, record low unemployment among Blacks and Latinos, prison reform, enterprise zones, etc.,) were tangibles. As for 2018, how many Dems deserted Obama in 2010? And he won handily in 2012.
Bottom line - Trump was a near shoe in pre Covid. Post Covid he’s a long shot. Black swan events change things.
You forgot Trump's biggest accomplishment, ending the Covid 19 pandemic.
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-6bc5-d2df-adff-6fdfff5c0000
So, booming economy, shoe in before the pandemic, ended the pandemic...how will Sleepy Joe get a single vote? Trump's batting 1.000.
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Biden has been ahead in national polls since the beginning of the year, and above Clinton's margin effectively the entire time (caveat: national polls). It's tough to weed out the effects of the 'plague' against Biden simply officially being the nominee, but Trump has been behind for all of it.
None of that is to say he didn't have a good chance of winning the EC (esp when the margin was closer to 3-4 in the nationals), or that he can't now. He has a pretty obvious if narrow path, and it should be even more obvious given where he's laying groundwork in the courts.
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Every election is “different”.
As a counterpoint, yes, Trump was only a “concept” in 2016. But by 2020, his list of accomplishments (a booming economy, higher wages, record low unemployment among Blacks and Latinos, prison reform, enterprise zones, etc.,) were tangibles. As for 2018, how many Dems deserted Obama in 2010? And he won handily in 2012.
Bottom line - Trump was a near shoe in pre Covid. Post Covid he’s a long shot. Black swan events change things.
Our economy, for the majority of americans, is a joke.
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Harris County, Houston Texas, surpassed its 2016 voting turnout with one day of early voting to go:
https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/politics/election-2020/2020/10/29/385142/harris-county-surpasses-2016-voting-numbers-setting-new-turnout-record/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
9,009,850 people have voted so far in the state of Texas. Texas us expecting a 3 million vote increase this year.
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You forgot Trump's biggest accomplishment, ending the Covid 19 pandemic.
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-6bc5-d2df-adff-6fdfff5c0000
So, booming economy, shoe in before the pandemic, ended the pandemic...how will Sleepy Joe get a single vote? Trump's batting 1.000.
Here's the actual document, not some powerpoint from politico.com
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Trump-Administration-ST-Highlights-2017-2020.pdf (https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Trump-Administration-ST-Highlights-2017-2020.pdf)
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Our economy, for the majority of americans, is a joke.
Some facts about Trump's booming economy:
The economy added 6.6 million jobs during Trump's first three years. It added 8.1 million in the last three years under Obama.
Real GDP grew 2.6 percent during Trump's first three years. It grew 2.5 percent during Obama's final three.
Median income grew 7.8 percent during Trump's first three years. It grew 8.4 percent during Obama's final three.
The national deficit was about $500 billion in 2015 it was $984 billion in 2019.
The one area that Trump's economy has outperformed Obama's is the market. Of course, only 55 percent of Americans even own stock, and the top 1 percent owns 46 percent of the market.
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Our economy, for the majority of americans, is a joke.
Our economy was vastly better for Americans of every race, gender and class in January 2020 than it was in January 2017.
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Y'all don't know a wrecked economy. And, hopefully you never will. You think Purell is hard to get? The Big Guy, Radical Kamala, and Da Squad will cause a run on vasoline like never seen before.
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Y'all don't know a wrecked economy. And, hopefully you never will. You think Purell is hard to get? The Big Guy, Radical Kamala, and Da Squad will cause a run on vasoline like never seen before.
I was alive in 2008. I know a wrecked economy
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Attention Chester County, PA voters:
https://www.dailylocal.com/news/mail-in-voters-in-chester-county-urged-to-get-ballots-to-drop-boxes-ahead-of/article_356164a6-19f3-11eb-8228-071e9b1589de.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
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Bottom line - Trump was a near shoe in pre Covid. Post Covid he’s a long shot. Black swan events change things.
Lenny ... Trump was trailing Biden, Sanders and Klobuchar in January. He may have ultimately, but he was far from a shoe in.
As for black swan events, this was a golden opportunity for a leader to rally the country around a common purpose and come out a national hero. How'd that go?
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Y'all don't know a wrecked economy. And, hopefully you never will. You think Purell is hard to get? The Big Guy, Radical Kamala, and Da Squad will cause a run on vasoline like never seen before.
To be fair, neither do you then.
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Our economy was vastly better for Americans of every race, gender and class in January 2020 than it was in January 2017.
Where's Rodney Dangerfield to ask where is this factory, Fantasyland?
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Every election is “different”.
As a counterpoint, yes, Trump was only a “concept” in 2016. But by 2020, his list of accomplishments (a booming economy, higher wages, record low unemployment among Blacks and Latinos, prison reform, enterprise zones, etc.,) were tangibles. As for 2018, how many Dems deserted Obama in 2010? And he won handily in 2012.
Bottom line - Trump was a near shoe in pre Covid. Post Covid he’s a long shot. Black swan events change things.
He was on track to lose to anyone nominated by the Dems, but it was most likely going to be more of a squeaker.
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Our economy was vastly better for Americans of every race, gender and class in January 2020 than it was in January 2017.
Can I ask by what measure? I truly don't believe the gig economy is good for anyone long term.
Note, I'm talking about those without retirement savings, without significant personal savings, without decent benefits.... Things which a large percentage of US citizens are lacking (they were lacking them in 2017 too).
As things have been since 2008, there are certain groups benefitting greatly economically but it isn't the majority of americans or certainly the average american.
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As of today, more ballots have been cast in Texas than there were in the entire 2016 election. Amazing effort on the early voting.
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As of today, more ballots have been cast in Texas than there were in the entire 2016 election. Amazing effort on the early voting.
Numbers and link a few posts above. Pretty impressive.
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Bottom line - Trump was a near shoe in pre Covid. Post Covid he’s a long shot. Black swan events change things.
It's easy to solve manufactured crises -- even easier in a splintered society. We've gotten a good look in the mirror with all the things that have come to the surface with COVID. A portion of the country is ok with what they see - we will see how big that portion is in the coming weeks.
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Can I ask by what measure? I truly don't believe the gig economy is good for anyone long term.
Note, I'm talking about those without retirement savings, without significant personal savings, without decent benefits.... Things which a large percentage of US citizens are lacking (they were lacking them in 2017 too).
As things have been since 2008, there are certain groups benefitting greatly economically but it isn't the majority of americans or certainly the average american.
Unemployment and average wages
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Sumter County Florida has surpassed its 2016 voting numbers already, with 78,778 votes cast and counting. DT would need at least a 2 to 1 margin here to likely have a chance to win the state. This county and Pinellas County should have a very high total in Tuesday night which would say a lot about the direction of Florida.
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Unemployment and average wages
Exactly. Fewer people unemployed, workers wages rising = a better economy for everyone.
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Unemployment and average wages
In Obama's final three years, unemployment went from 6.7 percent to 4.7 percent.
Pre-COVID, unemployment under Trump went from 4.7 percent to 3.5 percent.
In Obama's final three years, median income grew 8.4 percent. In Trump's first three, it grew 7.8 percent.
The Trump "boom" merely is a continuation of what already was happening.
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Can we move some of the economy posts to the COVID-19 Economy thread, and keep this additional thread for voting? They are both worthy topics of discussion.
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First time ever MPS is giving teachers off so they can vote. I've told my GF repeatedly over the years that they legally have to allow them time but due to substitute shortages only a handful were ever actually approved. It's a good move and I hope that all districts do the same
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In Obama's final three years, unemployment went from 6.7 percent to 4.7 percent.
Pre-COVID, unemployment under Trump went from 4.7 percent to 3.5 percent.
In Obama's final three years, median income grew 8.4 percent. In Trump's first three, it grew 7.8 percent.
The Trump "boom" merely is a continuation of what already was happening.
You have to give people a reason to vote against an incumbent when things are going well. The pandemic was that reason.
I think Trump would have won handily without it.
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You have to give people a reason to vote against an incumbent when things are going well. The pandemic was that reason.
I think Trump would have won handily without it.
Maybe.
Trump's approval rating before the pandemic was 47 percent. An incumbent has never won with a rating that low.
And again, he was behind multiple potential challengers in.pre-COVID polls.
Doesn't mean he wouldn't have won. Incumbency has its benefits. But he was far from a lock, based on historical trends.
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Obama's administration turned around the 2008 recession and did an excellent job improving the American economy.
Trump's administration took what Obama's administration had started and continued improvement which is impressive given we were 8+ years into economic recovery.
I think there are stats both sides could point to as outliers. Trump did a lot more for average wages than Obama did. Under Obama, a record low amount of people weren't covered by health insurance which has trended the opposite way under Trump. Truth is, both presidents saw great economic growth (pre-pandemic).
Whichever party wins next week will be given a great gift. We are in recession again and the winning party will get to claim credit for a likely quick (and already started) recovery.
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People who didn't or couldn't vote in 2016:
17.5 million of them have already voted. (20% of the early voting numbers).
7.5 million registered Democrats
5.5 million registered Republicans.
4.46 million Independent voters.
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Did we ever find out what state Trump found all those absentee ballots floating down a river? Imagine the early voting numbers if those ballots hadn't been thrown into a river!
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People who didn't or couldn't vote in 2016:
17.5 million of them have already voted. (20% of the early voting numbers).
7.5 million registered Democrats
5.5 million registered Republicans.
4.46 million Independent voters.
There is always a chance that early voting is not a sign of enthusiasm and is just cannibalizing from election day votes, but if you're the Dems, you feel good about banking votes early and expecting to have a sizeable lead (on average, mileage will vary by state) of the independents.
Regardless, I'm sure we can all agree that high civic engagement and turnout is always a good thing - regardless your political persuasion - unless you're racist, classist or an autocrat.
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There is always a chance that early voting is not a sign of enthusiasm and is just cannibalizing from election day votes, but if you're the Dems, you feel good about banking votes early and expecting to have a sizeable lead (on average, mileage will vary by state) of the independents.
Regardless, I'm sure we can all agree that high civic engagement and turnout is always a good thing - regardless your political persuasion - unless you're racist, classist or an autocrat.
Yep, and of course, with different voting rules per state, means things will swing different ways. Example, Pennsylvania votes will likely be more for DT early and more for JB later.
I mentioned before that one conservative estimate had voter turnout this year at 66%. By comparison, 2008 higher election turnout had 62% voter turnout. We'll see. Maximizing voter turnout with ease of voting needs to be an improved priority moving forward.
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Obama's administration turned around the 2008 recession and did an excellent job improving the American economy.
Trump's administration took what Obama's administration had started and continued improvement which is impressive given we were 8+ years into economic recovery.
This is entirely fair. If anyone wants to make the case that Trump took a strong economy and it remained strong in his first three years, we agree. But he didn't build it. He inherited it, and all the trend data shows that.
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Trump's administration took what Obama's administration had started and continued improvement which is impressive given we were 8+ years into economic recovery.
Let's also be completely honest and indicate that he did this by pumping cash into the market through a tax cut that led to an over $1T deficit before COVID.
Long term, that is not good for the economy. It is an immediate bolus, that was going to lead to a downturn difficult to turn around as the measures employed to do so were already deployed.
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If Democrats aren't telling you they are VERY scared about the early voting totals that have been tracked in some states(particularly Florida), they are flat out lying to you. They should be terrified. They aren't running up nearly the leads they had anticipated in some of these states. And make no mistake about it, Republicans WILL flood the polls on Tuesday night.
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If Democrats aren't telling you they are VERY scared about the early voting totals that have been tracked in some states(particularly Florida), they are flat out lying to you. They should be terrified. They aren't running up nearly the leads they had anticipated in some of these states. And make no mistake about it, Republicans WILL flood the polls on Tuesday night.
Cool story, bro.
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Cool story, bro.
muguru has a source in Florida leaking results to him. Fact.
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If Democrats aren't telling you they are VERY scared about the early voting totals that have been tracked in some states(particularly Florida), they are flat out lying to you. They should be terrified. They aren't running up nearly the leads they had anticipated in some of these states. And make no mistake about it, Republicans WILL flood the polls on Tuesday night.
Well Tuesday night would be too late.
But anyway, we will see. I think a lot of people are seeing what they want to see in the numbers. But if you are right, it would be a monumental miss by polls of all sorts.
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Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
27m
FL In Person Early Vote
Rs +495,995
VBM-IPEV=D +142,453
In 2016 on election eve Ds led by 96,000
R Target #1: 46,453
I mean if you don't believe those numbers, you can check it out here for yourself, it live updates: https://joeisdone.github.io/florida/
Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
28m
AZ: Rs just slashed the D lead in half.
Ds +26,496
Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
44m
In early voting in CO, black vote -1.1% from 2016
Assuming that a higher proportion of the remaining 3% vote for Trump (say, 15% of that 3%) the Democrat black vote is -1.5% off 2016
Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
1h
Interesting data point: very blue OR 17% behind their absentee return rate from 2016.
Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
3h
NC
Ds +270,000 (2016 was 310,000)
ALARM BELLS!!
Black share dropped to 19.55 (dropped for 5th straight day)
In 2016 this was 21%.
This year Trump will take an additional 3-5% of that 19%.
Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
3h
Some other FL counties compared to 2016
*Osceola (blue) Ds -19 compared to 2016
*Duval -5
*Orange (blue) -14
*Leon (blue) -7
*Gadsden (blue) +3
Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
3h
Rs now 3,000 votes ahead in Palm Beach
Ds now a shocking 19 points behind their 2016 pace here.
In Miami Dade it's worse for Ds: down 7,000 in IPEV and off 2016 pace by nearly 30 points!
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Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
27m
FL In Person Early Vote
Rs +495,995
VBM-IPEV=D +142,453
In 2016 on election eve Ds led by 96,000
R Target #1: 46,453
I mean if you don't believe those numbers, you can check it out here for yourself, it live updates: https://joeisdone.github.io/florida/
Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
28m
AZ: Rs just slashed the D lead in half.
Ds +26,496
Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
44m
In early voting in CO, black vote -1.1% from 2016
Assuming that a higher proportion of the remaining 3% vote for Trump (say, 15% of that 3%) the Democrat black vote is -1.5% off 2016
Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
1h
Interesting data point: very blue OR 17% behind their absentee return rate from 2016.
Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
3h
NC
Ds +270,000 (2016 was 310,000)
ALARM BELLS!!
Black share dropped to 19.55 (dropped for 5th straight day)
In 2016 this was 21%.
This year Trump will take an additional 3-5% of that 19%.
Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
3h
Some other FL counties compared to 2016
*Osceola (blue) Ds -19 compared to 2016
*Duval -5
*Orange (blue) -14
*Leon (blue) -7
*Gadsden (blue) +3
Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
·
3h
Rs now 3,000 votes ahead in Palm Beach
Ds now a shocking 19 points behind their 2016 pace here.
In Miami Dade it's worse for Ds: down 7,000 in IPEV and off 2016 pace by nearly 30 points!
He’s not counting the buses of illegal voters I’ve been busing in with the Krassentein’s and Soros to tilt the count on Tuesday. It worked for Beto in 2018 like he reported then
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https://twitter.com/Peoples_Pundit/status/1322159611504435201?s=20
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^^^^
As I said, people will see what they want to see. He may be right. But it's hard to believe he's an independent thinker given his twitter feed.
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He’s not counting the buses of illegal voters I’ve been busing in with the Krassentein’s and Soros to tilt the count on Tuesday. It worked for Beto in 2018 like he reported then
Let me just say it would NOT surprise me in the least if the Krassenstein's would do this...talk about the shadiest of shady.
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^^^^
As I said, people will see what they want to see. He may be right. But it's hard to believe he's an independent thinker given his twitter feed.
I mean, Larry Schweikert uses the term DemoKKKrat
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^^^^
As I said, people will see what they want to see. He may be right. But it's hard to believe he's an independent thinker given his twitter feed.
He is taking the data right off the website I linked to...those are actual vote totals. Not made up.
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Let me just say it would NOT surprise me in the least if the Krassenstein's would do this...talk about the shadiest of shady.
As shady as Charlie Kirk?
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Larry Schweikart
@LarrySchweikart
Not sure where this Trumpster is getting his numbers, but they're wrong.
Also, he isn't taking into account independent voters. It may shock you to learn that not everyone heading to the polls identifies as a Republican or Democrat.
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As shady as Charlie Kirk?
Probably not quite as shady as Joe Biden as the laptop data has told us. But I digress.
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This thread was going pretty well...
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Not sure where this Trumpster is getting his numbers, but they're wrong.
Also, he isn't taking into account independent voters. It may shock you to learn that not everyone heading to the polls identifies as a Republican or Democrat.
I mean most people here watch this network and even they talk about it. I also provided al ink that he is pulling the #'s from. He has someone on the ground in Florida as well. I mean they do have party registration in Flroida, so it's not just estimates like it would be in a lot of places.
https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1322191016816947212?s=20
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Yep, and of course, with different voting rules per state, means things will swing different ways. Example, Pennsylvania votes will likely be more for DT early and more for JB later.
I mentioned before that one conservative estimate had voter turnout this year at 66%. By comparison, 2008 higher election turnout had 62% voter turnout. We'll see. Maximizing voter turnout with ease of voting needs to be an improved priority moving forward.
The mail in voting discrepancy is so large between D and R in Pennsylvania, that some pollsters are now saying DT could lead by as much as 16% there Tuesday night, and lose once all of the mail in votes are counted.
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He is taking the data right off the website I linked to...those are actual vote totals. Not made up.
Right. But he is interpreting what the data says a certain way, mostly by comparing to four years ago. I think there is a narrative that the early voting benefits the Democrats, but I don't think that's the case necessarily. I think a lot of people, both Republican and Democrat, are voting early because of the pandemic. So I think 2016 v. 2020 comparisons at this point are largely useless.
So we will see. It's four days away. The story will mostly be told then.
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Right. But he is interpreting what the data says a certain way, mostly by comparing to four years ago. I think there is a narrative that the early voting benefits the Democrats, but I don't think that's the case necessarily. I think a lot of people, both Republican and Democrat, are voting early because of the pandemic. So I think 2016 v. 2020 comparisons at this point are largely useless.
So we will see. It's four days away. The story will mostly be told then.
Please let this be true. I hope both sides can come together afterwards as well. We need that.
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Please let this be true. I hope both sides can come together afterwards as well. We need that.
They won't but I agree with you.
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Yes, but what do Stella Immanuel (aka Dr. Demon Seed) and the MyPillow guy say?
And has Todd Smith started following Trump? That's always a sure sign!
As Sultan said, it's fun to talk about this stuff -- hell I wrote a mega-post yesterday -- but we'll know in just a few days (or weeks).
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The mail in voting discrepancy is so large between D and R in Pennsylvania, that some pollsters are now saying DT could lead by as much as 16% there Tuesday night, and lose once all of the mail in votes are counted.
The term is called "Blue Drift".
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Maybe.
Trump's approval rating before the pandemic was 47 percent. An incumbent has never won with a rating that low.
And again, he was behind multiple potential challengers in.pre-COVID polls.
Doesn't mean he wouldn't have won. Incumbency has its benefits. But he was far from a lock, based on historical trends.
It was actually less than that. In the aggregate which is the best indicator he never made it over 45% approval which is is presidential first.
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Probably not quite as shady as Joe Biden as the laptop data has told us. But I digress.
LOL. I said elsewhere, like facts (the fact that the whole laptop story was from a made up person) will never change these peoples' so-called minds.
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LOL. I said elsewhere, like facts (the fact that the whole laptop story was from a made up person) will never change these peoples' so-called minds.
A made up person?? You're one of the worst at believing everything the networks tell you. If it was fake, why has the Homeland Security committee said it's 100% factual?? Why did the DOJ announce last night that there is an ACTIVE investigation into it and has been since 2019?? So what you're saying is Tony Bobulinski, a former navy vet, is a total liar?? Yet, Vindamann was/is an American hero to you, right?? Nice try, but you aren't winning this one. BTW, that "report" your citing isn't even referring to the laptop scandal. It's fabricated.
Most of all why has NO ONE and I mean NO ONE in the Biden camp denied that the emails etc are real?? Because they are. Now flip this around and if it were DJT and one of his sons, you(and many others) would be talking non stop about it 24/7 and how true it is etc. That is FACT. Oh and CNN would be covering it 24/7 as well.
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A made up person?? You're one of the worst at believing everything the networks tell you. If it was fake, why has the Homeland Security committee said it's 100% factual?? Why did the DOJ announce last night that there is an ACTIVE investigation into it and has been since 2019?? So what you're saying is Tony Bobulinski, a former navy vet, is a total liar?? Yet, Vindamann was/is an American hero to you, right?? Nice try, but you aren't winning this one. BTW, that "report" your citing isn't even referring to the laptop scandal. It's fabricated.
Most of all why has NO ONE and I mean NO ONE in the Biden camp denied that the emails etc are real?? Because they are. Now flip this around and if it were DJT and one of his sons, you(and many others) would be talking non stop about it 24/7 and how true it is etc. That is FACT. Oh and CNN would be covering it 24/7 as well.
Cool story, bro
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I'm glad your back, guru. Hones arguments. Prevents complacency. Reminds us all why it is so important to vote.
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Cool story, bro
It's so amazing how much you libs deny reality just to try to protect your candidate..CBS reporter good enough source?? nah.
https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1322257763192496129?s=20
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It's so amazing how much you libs deny reality just to try to protect your candidate..CBS reporter good enough source?? nah.
https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1322257763192496129?s=20
Cool story, bro
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A made up person?? You're one of the worst at believing everything the networks tell you. If it was fake, why has the Homeland Security committee said it's 100% factual?? Why did the DOJ announce last night that there is an ACTIVE investigation into it and has been since 2019?? So what you're saying is Tony Bobulinski, a former navy vet, is a total liar?? Yet, Vindamann was/is an American hero to you, right?? Nice try, but you aren't winning this one. BTW, that "report" your citing isn't even referring to the laptop scandal. It's fabricated.
Most of all why has NO ONE and I mean NO ONE in the Biden camp denied that the emails etc are real?? Because they are. Now flip this around and if it were DJT and one of his sons, you(and many others) would be talking non stop about it 24/7 and how true it is etc. That is FACT. Oh and CNN would be covering it 24/7 as well.
Q contacted me and said to tell you not to post anymore.
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Who remembers when the Clinton family was accused of murdering a number of people? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Body_Count
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LOL. I said elsewhere, like facts (the fact that the whole laptop story was from a made up person) will never change these peoples' so-called minds.
You guys are talking about 2 different things.
1. The Hunter Biden laptop/email story appears to be true.
2. The Hunter Biden China story appears to be fabricated.
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You guys are talking about 2 different things.
1. The Hunter Biden laptop/email story appears to be true.
2. The Hunter Biden China story appears to be fabricated.
Tsmith wrong? That's unpossible.
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You guys are talking about 2 different things.
1. The Hunter Biden laptop/email story appears to be true.
2. The Hunter Biden China story appears to be fabricated.
Furthermore...
1. Hunter Biden is a somewhat shady character who has often seemed to profit off his name.
2. The evidence doesn't suggest that Joe was an active participant or profited from Hunter's actions.
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Tsmith wrong? That's unpossible.
plausible deniability eyn'a?
all they gotta do is ask. our media trets it like don't ask, don't tell. they won't even ask uncle joe. "journalistic standards" are gone. they reported for 3 years, hell, they still report on an unverified dossier. once they found out DNC and hrc paid for it, they ran like hell. just ask that schiff faced senator from california
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plausible deniability eyn'a?
all they gotta do is ask. our media trets it like don't ask, don't tell. they won't even ask uncle joe. "journalistic standards" are gone. they reported for 3 years, hell, they still report on an unverified dossier. once they found out DNC and hrc paid for it, they ran like hell. just ask that schiff faced senator from california
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQvqpTgOgDLHffe6A-9h4_k-NCiDTvVaa_njA&usqp=CAU)
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If Democrats aren't telling you they are VERY scared about the early voting totals that have been tracked in some states(particularly Florida), they are flat out lying to you. They should be terrified. They aren't running up nearly the leads they had anticipated in some of these states. And make no mistake about it, Republicans WILL flood the polls on Tuesday night.
Actually...Florida numbers at the moment heavily favor Biden. While there is only a 2-point gap in registered D vs R ballots, Dems are breaking 94-4 for Biden while Republicans are just 85-13 for Trump. Independents are also going 60-24 for Biden, which would come out to a 17-point edge for Biden in Florida based on what's in so far. Nate Silver had a good tweet on this today.
That said, it's inferring polls and assuming votes will mirror them, but based on respective party support, things look very positive for Biden. That Donald Trump is spending resources to protect Georgia and Texas while pulling ads out of Wisconsin and Florida seems to indicate a very narrow path for Trump. They need all the toss-up states (Florida, NC, Georgia, Ohio, Iowa) while also pulling Pennsylvania to stay in the fight. If Trump pulls it out, he likely needs all 5 of Nebraska's votes and to come out of Maine with something.
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-30/biden-aides-see-warning-signs-in-black-latino-turnout-so-far?sref=dCXr1Xoe
I think the swing in the burbs will be enough to offset any issues there, but who knows.
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Actually...Florida numbers at the moment heavily favor Biden. While there is only a 2-point gap in registered D vs R ballots, Dems are breaking 94-4 for Biden while Republicans are just 85-13 for Trump. Independents are also going 60-24 for Biden, which would come out to a 17-point edge for Biden in Florida based on what's in so far. Nate Silver had a good tweet on this today.
That said, it's inferring polls and assuming votes will mirror them, but based on respective party support, things look very positive for Biden. That Donald Trump is spending resources to protect Georgia and Texas while pulling ads out of Wisconsin and Florida seems to indicate a very narrow path for Trump. They need all the toss-up states (Florida, NC, Georgia, Ohio, Iowa) while also pulling Pennsylvania to stay in the fight. If Trump pulls it out, he likely needs all 5 of Nebraska's votes and to come out of Maine with something.
I mean you could be right, but the numbers don't lie...look at the interactive map I linked. Dems are NOT performing nearly as well in heavy Dem areas(specifically Miami-dade) that they typically do. Dems are very concerned about it..It was on CNN this morning and there's also this article from Politico...https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/29/miami-voter-turnout-democrats-433643
Also, most of you democrats will scream that "they are heavily biased" but if you look at Trafalgar polls(only one that got the national race right last year), trump is up or right there in the states you listed. The polls were wrong in 2016, they will be wrong again. They don't capture the "hidden Trump voter" Trafalgar feels they do. Not to mention many Repubs lie to pollsters. We'll find out sometime in November(since it's apparently okay for PA to count votes several days after the election)
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plausible deniability eyn'a?
all they gotta do is ask. our media trets it like don't ask, don't tell. they won't even ask uncle joe. "journalistic standards" are gone. they reported for 3 years, hell, they still report on an unverified dossier. once they found out DNC and hrc paid for it, they ran like hell. just ask that schiff faced senator from california
Thanks, rocket. I laughed.
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I mean you could be right, but the numbers don't lie...look at the interactive map I linked. Dems are NOT performing nearly as well in heavy Dem areas(specifically Miami-dade) that they typically do. Dems are very concerned about it..It was on CNN this morning and there's also this article from Politico...https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/29/miami-voter-turnout-democrats-433643
Also, most of you democrats will scream that "they are heavily biased" but if you look at Trafalgar polls(only one that got the national race right last year), trump is up or right there in the states you listed. The polls were wrong in 2016, they will be wrong again. They don't capture the "hidden Trump voter" Trafalgar feels they do. Not to mention many Repubs lie to pollsters. We'll find out sometime in November(since it's apparently okay for PA to count votes several days after the election)
You know, I'm actually kinda glad you're back. You can be my pet.
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You guys are talking about 2 different things.
1. The Hunter Biden laptop/email story appears to be true.
Rudy Giuliani + Stave Bannon + New York Post story that the writer refused to put his name on + blind computer repairman? How could it not be true?
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Actually...Florida numbers at the moment heavily favor Biden. While there is only a 2-point gap in registered D vs R ballots, Dems are breaking 94-4 for Biden while Republicans are just 85-13 for Trump. Independents are also going 60-24 for Biden, which would come out to a 17-point edge for Biden in Florida based on what's in so far. Nate Silver had a good tweet on this today.
That said, it's inferring polls and assuming votes will mirror them, but based on respective party support, things look very positive for Biden. That Donald Trump is spending resources to protect Georgia and Texas while pulling ads out of Wisconsin and Florida seems to indicate a very narrow path for Trump. They need all the toss-up states (Florida, NC, Georgia, Ohio, Iowa) while also pulling Pennsylvania to stay in the fight. If Trump pulls it out, he likely needs all 5 of Nebraska's votes and to come out of Maine with something.
Considered it’s a state run by Ron deSandis and Pam Biondi I never put my hopes in Florida. Biden doesn’t need it though. He’ll get MI, WI, PA and AZ. Maybe even Ohio too.
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Rudy Giuliani + Stave Bannon + New York Post story that the writer refused to put his name on + blind computer repairman? How could it not be true?
You forgot 'story actually authored by Sean Hannity's former producer'. Because that really adds that added touch of believability and objectivity.
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The polls were wrong in 2016, they will be wrong again. They don't capture the "hidden Trump voter" Trafalgar feels they do. Not to mention many Repubs lie to pollsters. We'll find out sometime in November(since it's apparently okay for PA to count votes several days after the election)
The polls were wrong in 2016 because they didn't weight for non-college educated whites, that's true. I also think they will be wrong again, but because polling agencies are overcorrecting for 2016. There is no "hidden Trump voter" anymore. People that were ashamed to vote for him in 2016 are blaringly supportive this time around and polling firms are adding extra weight to non-college educated whites for fear of a 2016 redux.
Also, votes are always counted after Election Night. They always have been and always will be. That's how active military votes have always been counted. That's why no state certifies their votes on Election Night. The earliest any state will certify is November 10th (Louisiana, Vermont, Virginia, South Dakota, Oklahoma) and the vast majority won't certify until 2-4 weeks after the election is completed. That is how it has always been.
The only organizations that are ever rushing to get election results out on Election Night are the media. So I guess the issue isn't fake votes, but fake news.
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Rudy Giuliani + Stave Bannon + New York Post story that the writer refused to put his name on + blind computer repairman? How could it not be true?
Maybe because the FBI has been investigating it since 2019, and just did a 5 hour interview with Tony Bobulinksi?? But nah, that still makes it not true, right?? I guess you think Bobulinski isn't credible, even though he showed the FBI texts, and his phones to prove it all(and Yes Joe WAS involved every step of the way).
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Considered it’s a state run by Ron deSandis and Pam Biondi I never put my hopes in Florida. Biden doesn’t need it though. He’ll get MI, WI, PA and AZ. Maybe even Ohio too.
Nope, he's definitely not winning Ohio..Once he said at the last debate that he is essentially going to get away from oil etc...that finished him. That will go down as one of the biggest political mistakes in US history. If you don't think that won't resonate, you're just wrong. He's also down in Michigan by about 4 points, AZ is close(repubs just took the lead in Maricopa county in early voting). It's going to be close no doubt.
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Nope, he's definitely not winning Ohio..Once he said at the last debate that he is essentially going to get away from oil etc...that finished him. That will go down as one of the biggest political mistakes in US history. If you don't think that won't resonate, you're just wrong. He's also down in Michigan by about 4 points, AZ is close(repubs just took the lead in Maricopa county in early voting). It's going to be close no doubt.
So if Biden wins all those states will you admit you're wrong or will you say the election is fixed?
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Actually...Florida numbers at the moment heavily favor Biden. While there is only a 2-point gap in registered D vs R ballots, Dems are breaking 94-4 for Biden while Republicans are just 85-13 for Trump. Independents are also going 60-24 for Biden, which would come out to a 17-point edge for Biden in Florida based on what's in so far. Nate Silver had a good tweet on this today.
That said, it's inferring polls and assuming votes will mirror them, but based on respective party support, things look very positive for Biden. That Donald Trump is spending resources to protect Georgia and Texas while pulling ads out of Wisconsin and Florida seems to indicate a very narrow path for Trump. They need all the toss-up states (Florida, NC, Georgia, Ohio, Iowa) while also pulling Pennsylvania to stay in the fight. If Trump pulls it out, he likely needs all 5 of Nebraska's votes and to come out of Maine with something.
To add: voter registration data is largely presumed as useless (or at least, less than useful) in this regard. People are grabbing at it because it's the best we have, but I think we're going to have to wait and see. I would imagine that in places like the Villages, there are an awful lot of registered republicans, and Trump had a dominant edge there in '16. They will show up as early voting Republicans, but if there's erosion in Trump's support there and the senior demographic writ large, he's in trouble. Losing seniors and the suburbs will be tough to overcome.
I've seen the reports of low PoC turnout in Miami-Dade, so we just have to see. We don't know who will turn out on election day vs who just got it over with early. All of this is anecdotal, but if I were a PoC who is at heightened risk of disenfranchisement or having my vote delegitimized as Trump is doing w/ mail-in ballots, I can construct a world in which I would choose to turn out in person to circumvent all of that.
Fortunately for everyone, we will know Florida before anything else to determine how long of a night it will be. If Trump loses Florida, it's a virtual death knell. If Trump wins, we'll all be waiting a long, long time for Pennsylvania and North Carolina.
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about that Miami Dade:
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9654930920
https://twitter.com/kionnemcghee/status/1322214250413215744
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Nope, he's definitely not winning Ohio..Once he said at the last debate that he is essentially going to get away from oil etc...that finished him. That will go down as one of the biggest political mistakes in US history. If you don't think that won't resonate, you're just wrong. He's also down in Michigan by about 4 points, AZ is close(repubs just took the lead in Maricopa county in early voting). It's going to be close no doubt.
I have no clue where you get your polls or news from. I can tell you that they're utter garbage.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/michigan/
This is a compiler of polls. In the closest poll here, you can see that Biden is +7. Fox News has Biden +12.
You can click through each poll, and it explains the methodology how each is graded.
FWIW, I think Ohio goes for Trump by at least 3%
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about that Miami Dade:
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9654930920
https://twitter.com/kionnemcghee/status/1322214250413215744
I was referring to this: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/29/miami-voter-turnout-democrats-433643 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/29/miami-voter-turnout-democrats-433643).
Again, I think this is volatile because of the pandemic. It's conceivable the Republican door knocking campaigns have been significant.
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Good to have you back Guru. I was having some self esteem issues about my intellect lately.
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@kylegriffin1: Fox poll:
National: Likely voters
Joe Biden 52%
Donald Trump 44%
Independents favor Biden by 54-32%. Trump won that group by a single point in 2016. Seniors favor Biden by 10 points. Trump won that group by 9 points in 2016.
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@kylegriffin1: Fox poll:
National: Likely voters
Joe Biden 52%
Donald Trump 44%
Independents favor Biden by 54-32%. Trump won that group by a single point in 2016. Seniors favor Biden by 10 points. Trump won that group by 9 points in 2016.
Maybe we’re missing the “shy” trump voter. They’re a very quiet group
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It's so funny to hear folks who believe every single word that their pathologically lying emperor tells them accuse others of not searching out the truth.
Don't worry, though. On Feb. 26, we'll be down to zero cases within days.
White Power!
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I mean you could be right, but the numbers don't lie...look at the interactive map I linked. Dems are NOT performing nearly as well in heavy Dem areas(specifically Miami-dade) that they typically do. Dems are very concerned about it..It was on CNN this morning and there's also this article from Politico...https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/29/miami-voter-turnout-democrats-433643
Also, most of you democrats will scream that "they are heavily biased" but if you look at Trafalgar polls(only one that got the national race right last year), trump is up or right there in the states you listed. The polls were wrong in 2016, they will be wrong again. They don't capture the "hidden Trump voter" Trafalgar feels they do. Not to mention many Repubs lie to pollsters. We'll find out sometime in November(since it's apparently okay for PA to count votes several days after the election)
Yeah, about your beloved Trafalger poll:
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1322301003090268162
And what’s wrong with counting votes cast in time after Election Day? You know, like military ballots?
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Tsmith wrong? That's unpossible.
Sometimes you're correct.
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A made up person?? You're one of the worst at believing everything the networks tell you. If it was fake, why has the Homeland Security committee said it's 100% factual?? Why did the DOJ announce last night that there is an ACTIVE investigation into it and has been since 2019?? So what you're saying is Tony Bobulinski, a former navy vet, is a total liar?? Yet, Vindamann was/is an American hero to you, right?? Nice try, but you aren't winning this one. BTW, that "report" your citing isn't even referring to the laptop scandal. It's fabricated.
Most of all why has NO ONE and I mean NO ONE in the Biden camp denied that the emails etc are real?? Because they are. Now flip this around and if it were DJT and one of his sons, you(and many others) would be talking non stop about it 24/7 and how true it is etc. That is FACT. Oh and CNN would be covering it 24/7 as well.
LOL
Tucker Carlson gives up on Biden story after finding documents
https://www.thestreet.com/mishtalk/economics/tucker-carlson-gives-up-on-biden-story-after-finding-documents-Ltd4RO9to0WbojOepHTC1A
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Not to mention many Repubs lie
We agree!
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I have no clue where you get your polls or news from. I can tell you that they're utter garbage.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/michigan/
This is a compiler of polls. In the closest poll here, you can see that Biden is +7. Fox News has Biden +12.
You can click through each poll, and it explains the methodology how each is graded.
FWIW, I think Ohio goes for Trump by at least 3%
You say my polls are garbage and then use the VERY liberal 538 for your polls?? Well done..
*note* Rasmussen is NOT, I repeat NOT partisan republican like people think they are...they sample MORE democrats repeatedly than Repubs. They also do the ONLY daily presidential approval polls out there and he's at 51% as of today. No President has ever lost with an approval rating that high.
Here's one https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/north_carolina_trump_48_biden_462
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/arizona_trump_48_biden_45
And then a very good article...https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/29/2020-polls-trump-biden-prediction-accurate-2016-433619
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@kylegriffin1: Fox poll:
National: Likely voters
Joe Biden 52%
Donald Trump 44%
Independents favor Biden by 54-32%. Trump won that group by a single point in 2016. Seniors favor Biden by 10 points. Trump won that group by 9 points in 2016.
:D Kyle Griffin, is one of the biggest lib tools out there(and that list is plentiful). Yes, he is citing a Fox poll, but IDC, there's have always been terrible.
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NMM
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So are we supposed to be for or against (or both) presidential children profiting off their name?
I confused about where this roundabout is supposed to take me.
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So are we supposed to be for or against (or both) presidential children profiting off their name?
I confused about where this roundabout is supposed to take me.
Depends on whether or not you're blind to all of the Trump children and in laws have contributed to this country
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So are we supposed to be for or against (or both) presidential children profiting off their name?
I confused about where this roundabout is supposed to take me.
This is a typical response by the VERY few liberals(idk if you are one) that bring it up...it's NOT about Hunter, never has been. It's about Joe. Period. Yes, documents show Joe was VERY involved...read them. He is the "big guy" named in the documents, plus many other meetings etc. Joe Biden "I have NEVER talked about my son't overseas business dealings". That is a FLAT OUT LIE.
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This is a typical response by the VERY few liberals(idk if you are one) that bring it up...it's NOT about Hunter, never has been. It's about Joe. Period. Yes, documents show Joe was VERY involved...read them. He is the "big guy" named in the documents, plus many other meetings etc. Joe Biden "I have NEVER talked about my son't overseas business dealings". That is a FLAT OUT LIE.
That’s a game changer. Wow
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This is a typical response by the VERY few liberals(idk if you are one) that bring it up...it's NOT about Hunter, never has been. It's about Joe. Period. Yes, documents show Joe was VERY involved...read them. He is the "big guy" named in the documents, plus many other meetings etc. Joe Biden "I have NEVER talked about my son't overseas business dealings". That is a FLAT OUT LIE.
Even your beloved Fox disagrees. Grand Wizard Tucker says he is not releasing his "incriminating" papers.
If you can't see through that, you're even denser than people here accuse you of being.
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The Trumpsters say over and over and over again that polls don't matter ... until they stumble over one that favors their emperor. Then, all of a sudden, it's: "Look at this poll! All the others are fake, but this one is real!"
Fun times.
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This is a typical response by the VERY few liberals(idk if you are one) that bring it up...it's NOT about Hunter, never has been. It's about Joe. Period. Yes, documents show Joe was VERY involved...read them. He is the "big guy" named in the documents, plus many other meetings etc. Joe Biden "I have NEVER talked about my son't overseas business dealings". That is a FLAT OUT LIE.
So if the father is involved or profits with the business deal that is also wrong, correct?
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Even your beloved Fox disagrees. Grand Wizard Tucker says he is not releasing his "incriminating" papers.
If you can't see through that, you're even denser than people here accuse you of being.
LOL They do not, he had a full show with Tony Bobulinski(Hunter's business partner) on the other night. How come you haven't said a word about the FBI having an open investigation into it and have had the laptop since 2019?? Kills your narrative, maybe??
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LOL They do not, he had a full show with Tony Bobulinski(Hunter's business partner) on the other night. How come you haven't said a word about the FBI having an open investigation into it and have had the laptop since 2019?? Kills your narrative, maybe??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXgO7L0rcAQ&feature=emb_logo
Your brain is broken.
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You say my polls are garbage and then use the VERY liberal 538 for your polls?? Well done..
*note* Rasmussen is NOT, I repeat NOT partisan republican like people think they are...they sample MORE democrats repeatedly than Repubs. They also do the ONLY daily presidential approval polls out there and he's at 51% as of today. No President has ever lost with an approval rating that high.
Here's one https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/north_carolina_trump_48_biden_462
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/arizona_trump_48_biden_45
And then a very good article...https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/29/2020-polls-trump-biden-prediction-accurate-2016-433619
538 is a compilation of polls. I'm sorry this is hard for your tiny donkey brain to understand.
I'm pretty excited for your epic meltdown sometime in December.
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538 is a compilation of polls. I'm sorry this is hard for your tiny donkey brain to understand.
I'm pretty excited for your epic meltdown sometime in December.
I hope you, MU82 and Jockey are here on Election Night, I will be, and if things go as i hope/think they will...My presence will be WELL known, believe me. There will be NO mercy, none. :D
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They’ve had the laptop since 2019 and they still haven’t found anything?
Is this like the Zoolander scene? “The files are IN the computer!”
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I hope you, MU82 and Jockey are here on Election Night, I will be, and if things go as i hope/think they will...My presence will be WELL known, believe me. There will be NO mercy, none. :D
Your presence here is never doubted.
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They’ve had the laptop since 2019 and they still haven’t found anything?
Is this like the Zoolander scene? “The files are IN the computer!”
They never bothered to look at it...Wray is part of it. Tell ya what, everyone here needs to watch "the plot against the President". It's incredibly enlightening, and maybe just MAYBE some of you will understand what's really going on.
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They never bothered to look at it...Wray is part of it. Tell ya what, everyone here needs to watch "the plot against the President". It's incredibly enlightening, and maybe just MAYBE some of you will understand what's really going on.
LOL, you really aren't that aware of irony are you.
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LOL, you really aren't that aware of irony are you.
He's not. Concept evades him at every step.
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They never bothered to look at it...Wray is part of it. Tell ya what, everyone here needs to watch "the plot against the President". It's incredibly enlightening, and maybe just MAYBE some of you will understand what's really going on.
Stay gold, ponyboy
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538 is a compilation of polls. I'm sorry this is hard for your tiny donkey brain to understand.
I'm pretty excited for your epic meltdown sometime in December.
538 includes Rasmussen, Trafalgar, Fox News and all the other pollsters. So does another poll aggregator, Real Clear Politics. Not sure why that's so difficult for guru to understand.
I hope you, MU82 and Jockey are here on Election Night, I will be, and if things go as i hope/think they will...My presence will be WELL known, believe me. There will be NO mercy, none. :D
Some helpful advice for Tuesday, guru: Wait for facts.
Not the alternative facts that your emperor and his enablers and his easily conned sheeple have been trafficking for 5 years now, but actual factual facts.
You might want to remember how much you embarrassed yourself when you got giddy over Dr. Demon Seed pushing hydroxycloroquine, and how much you humiliated yourself when you went ga-ga over Todd Smith following some teenager on social media.
So when your emperor comes out on election night and declares victory, you might want to wait until respected news outlets (yes, even Fox News) declare the winners of the various states.
I know it will be difficult ... because if your emperor told you to inject yourself with disinfectant and then shoot yourself in the middle of 5th Avenue, you would grab the Lysol and the Luger.
But you might want to wait for all the touchdowns to be confirmed by the refs before you do the dopey end-zone dance you are planning.
You're welcome.
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LOL They do not, he had a full show with Tony Bobulinski(Hunter's business partner) on the other night. How come you haven't said a word about the FBI having an open investigation into it and have had the laptop since 2019?? Kills your narrative, maybe??
How come none of the people involved in the story will share materials, or be interviewed by anyone besides Foxnews and far-right media...then they complain no one is covering the story/materials.
How come it is repeatedly verified that they lie about important details, for instance, the FBI didn't seek out Tony Bobulinski for an interview, he asked to be interviewed by the FBI.
The FBI, has never confirmed any investigation into Biden, or the materials. That was a claim by a far-right media group and unconfirmed by anyone.
Why is the Meta data erased from all emails?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/here-s-what-happened-when-nbc-news-tried-report-alleged-n1245533
Why did the Wallstreet journal refuse to cover this?
The simple answer is, because this is all propaganda and a Giuliani/Russia fueled scam trying to recreate the scams perpetrated on Clinton and America in 2016.
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How come none of the people involved in the story will share materials, or be interviewed by anyone besides Foxnews and far-right media...then they complain no one is covering the story/materials.
How come it is repeatedly verified that they lie about important details, for instance, the FBI didn't seek out Tony Bobulinski for an interview, he asked to be interviewed by the FBI.
The FBI, has never confirmed any investigation into Biden, or the materials. That was a claim by a far-right media group and unconfirmed by anyone.
Why is the Meta data erased from all emails?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/here-s-what-happened-when-nbc-news-tried-report-alleged-n1245533
Why did the Wallstreet journal refuse to cover this?
The simple answer is, because this is all propaganda and a Giuliani/Russia fueled scam trying to recreate the scams perpetrated on Clinton and America in 2016.
That's what Soros wants you to think...
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538 includes Rasmussen, Trafalgar, Fox News and all the other pollsters. So does another poll aggregator, Real Clear Politics. Not sure why that's so difficult for guru to understand.
Some helpful advice for Tuesday, guru: Wait for facts.
Not the alternative facts that your emperor and his enablers and his easily conned sheeple have been trafficking for 5 years now, but actual factual facts.
You might want to remember how much you embarrassed yourself when you got giddy over Dr. Demon Seed pushing hydroxycloroquine, and how much you humiliated yourself when you went ga-ga over Todd Smith following some teenager on social media.
So when your emperor comes out on election night and declares victory, you might want to wait until respected news outlets (yes, even Fox News) declare the winners of the various states.
I know it will be difficult ... because if your emperor told you to inject yourself with disinfectant and then shoot yourself in the middle of 5th Avenue, you would grab the Lysol and the Luger.
But you might want to wait for all the touchdowns to be confirmed by the refs before you do the dopey end-zone dance you are planning.
You're welcome.
That's why I said IF(I capitalized it for emphasis), we know the results on election night. If not, I will wait until we do...but you're in my crosshairs Mike, you can count on that. You can run but you cannot hide. There will be NO mercy. NONE. After running your mouth constantly and spitting your bullsh*t for months on end, I am hopeful to finally be able to shut it for you. Believe me, this win means more to me than ANY MU win ever could/will. Winter is coming Mike...count on it.
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That's why I said IF(I capitalized it for emphasis), we know the results on election night. If not, I will wait until we do...but you're in my crosshairs Mike, you can count on that. You can run but you cannot hide. There will be NO mercy. NONE. After running your mouth constantly and spitting your bullsh*t for months on end, I am hopeful to finally be able to shut it for you. Believe me, this win means more to me than ANY MU win ever could/will. Winter is coming Mike...count on it.
I'm sure he's scared.
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That's why I said IF(I capitalized it for emphasis), we know the results on election night. If not, I will wait until we do...but you're in my crosshairs Mike, you can count on that. You can run but you cannot hide. There will be NO mercy. NONE. After running your mouth constantly and spitting your bullsh*t for months on end, I am hopeful to finally be able to shut it for you. Believe me, this win means more to me than ANY MU win ever could/will. Winter is coming Mike...count on it.
You’re an embarrassment to Marquette and their fans. Please don’t interact with anyone on social media with a Marquette handle.
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muguru, destroyer of threads.
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How come none of the people involved in the story will share materials, or be interviewed by anyone besides Foxnews and far-right media...then they complain no one is covering the story/materials.
How come it is repeatedly verified that they lie about important details, for instance, the FBI didn't seek out Tony Bobulinski for an interview, he asked to be interviewed by the FBI.
The FBI, has never confirmed any investigation into Biden, or the materials. That was a claim by a far-right media group and unconfirmed by anyone.
Why is the Meta data erased from all emails?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/here-s-what-happened-when-nbc-news-tried-report-alleged-n1245533
Why did the Wallstreet journal refuse to cover this?
The simple answer is, because this is all propaganda and a Giuliani/Russia fueled scam trying to recreate the scams perpetrated on Clinton and America in 2016.
LOL There are PLENTY of media people that have access to the hard drive that have offered ANYONE in the mainstream media(or anyone else important) to look at it anytime they want. Heck Jack Posobiec offered on twitter for Mark Cuban to come view it for himself (and he agreed)and to bring HIS IT guys with him if he chooses. You're as bad as the MSM. None of you want to believe it, because you want your candidate protected all in the name of power.
And I can ask you this: why has Joe or Hunter or anyone associated with the Biden campaign NOT flatly denied any of it?? Only said "it's a smear campaign". If you were being attacked like that, you would certainly issue at least a statement denying it, right?? I sure would(even if it wasn't).
No one is interviewing anyone with the materials, because MSM wants NO part of the story. They can't hang their preferred candidate out to dry like that. They all have contacts in the FBI/DOJ one 10 minute phonecall to them would verify it for them, yet they won't even do that. Or, more likely, they have and they didn't like what they heard.
Why did Twitter silence the 4th largest circulated newspaper in the country for so long if it wasn't true. Jack is a HUGE liberal(look at his donations). I don't care what side of the aisle you're on, NO ONE should think that's acceptable.
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You’re an embarrassment to Marquette and their fans. Please don’t interact with anyone on social media with a Marquette handle.
Don't you EVER try to tell me what to do EVER again Rico. Am I clear?? This right here is typical liberal...they want to CONTROL you, and anything other than 100% conformity will NOT be tolerated. You are also on my list, I will NOT let up on you either. GUARANTEED.
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Maybe we’re missing the “shy” trump voter. They’re a very quiet group
Shy on a Fox poll no less.
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Don't you EVER try to tell me what to do EVER again Rico. Am I clear?? This right here is typical liberal...they want to CONTROL you, and anything other than 100% conformity will NOT be tolerated. You are also on my list, I will NOT let up on you either. GUARANTEED.
Thank you for your service.
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Thank you for your service.
Air National Guard 8 years
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Believe me, this win means more to me than ANY MU win ever could/would.
Sorry guru, but that rainy night in Georgia in 1977 means more to me than any politician’s win or loss ever could.
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but you're in my crosshairs Mike, you can count on that. You can run but you cannot hide. There will be NO mercy. NONE.
guru is coming for you!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/565519210055757824/Jd0de_6v_400x400.jpeg)
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And I can ask you this: why has Joe or Hunter or anyone associated with the Biden campaign NOT flatly denied any of it?? Only said "it's a smear campaign". If you were being attacked like that, you would certainly issue at least a statement denying it, right?? I sure would(even if it wasn't).
Because:
"Legend has it that LBJ, in one of his early congressional campaigns, told one of his aides to spread the story that Johnson's opponent unnatural carnal knowledgeed pigs. The aide responded "Christ, Lyndon, we can't call the guy a pigunnatural carnal knowledgeer. It isn't true." To which LBJ supposedly replied "Of course it ain't true, but I want to make the son-of-a-bitch deny it.""
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What's with the "winter is coming" statement? You're essentially likening a potential trump second term with the 'great evil' from game of thrones... wait that checks out
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Best thread ever!
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Nate Silver @NateSilver538 8h
Gonna keep repeating this point, because it has a variety of implications for vote counting, what happens if some ballots come in after the deadline, etc.: There is lots of evidence that Democrats sent their ballots in sooner than Republicans.
Nate Silver @NateSilver538 8h
In Florida, for example, mail ballots received by the morning of Oct. 14 were +21 D by party registration. But ballots received in the past 48 hours were just +6 D.
Nate Silver @NateSilver538 8h
Particularly if Ds with outstanding mail ballots are hearing messages from the Biden campaign etc. and are also now more likely to use dropboxes, or to decide to vote in person instead, it's not clear what the partisan composition of late-arriving mail ballots will look like.
2:06 PM · Oct 30, 2020
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LOL There are PLENTY of media people that have access to the hard drive that have offered ANYONE in the mainstream media(or anyone else important) to look at it anytime they want. Heck Jack Posobiec offered on twitter for Mark Cuban to come view it for himself (and he agreed)and to bring HIS IT guys with him if he chooses. You're as bad as the MSM. None of you want to believe it, because you want your candidate protected all in the name of power.
And I can ask you this: why has Joe or Hunter or anyone associated with the Biden campaign NOT flatly denied any of it?? Only said "it's a smear campaign". If you were being attacked like that, you would certainly issue at least a statement denying it, right?? I sure would(even if it wasn't).
No one is interviewing anyone with the materials, because MSM wants NO part of the story. They can't hang their preferred candidate out to dry like that. They all have contacts in the FBI/DOJ one 10 minute phonecall to them would verify it for them, yet they won't even do that. Or, more likely, they have and they didn't like what they heard.
Why did Twitter silence the 4th largest circulated newspaper in the country for so long if it wasn't true. Jack is a HUGE liberal(look at his donations). I don't care what side of the aisle you're on, NO ONE should think that's acceptable.
I will not engage beyond this last post.
Read the link I provided. They will not share this with anyone. They don't want critical review.
Biden flat out denied it. He said he has never taken a penny of foreign money, and he has provided tax returns to prove it.
Twitter and other social media silenced it, because there is no evidence to support it and hundreds of bipartisan intelligence experts have verified that it looks like Russian propaganda.
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Guys Biden hasn't denied being the leader of a pedophile children eating sex cult amongst Hollywood A listers and top liberals. And social media censors that too. Coincidence? I think not
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Air National Guard 8 years
So which one were you? A sucker or a loser.
But you sound really tough. I warn everyone here - don’t mess with Guru.
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That's why I said IF(I capitalized it for emphasis), we know the results on election night. If not, I will wait until we do...but you're in my crosshairs Mike, you can count on that. You can run but you cannot hide. There will be NO mercy. NONE. After running your mouth constantly and spitting your bullsh*t for months on end, I am hopeful to finally be able to shut it for you. Believe me, this win means more to me than ANY MU win ever could/will. Winter is coming Mike...count on it.
So at this point, you're just a meme account. Nice.
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you're in my crosshairs Mike, you can count on that. You can run but you cannot hide. There will be NO mercy. NONE. After running your mouth constantly and spitting your bullsh*t for months on end, I am hopeful to finally be able to shut it for you. Believe me, this win means more to me than ANY MU win ever could/will. Winter is coming Mike...count on it.
You sound just like the false god you worship - a bully, a liar and a delusional, vindictive narcissist. And you certainly aren’t worthy of being a Marquette fan.
Do you think anybody here gives a rat’s rump if you “come for us” in a fan board comment stream? You’ll just get perma-banned and no Scooper will ever hear from you again.
Now stand back, stand by and grow the eff up.
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You sound just like the false god you worship - a bully, a liar and a delusional, vindictive narcissist. And you certainly aren’t worthy of being a Marquette fan.
Do you think anybody here gives a rat’s rump if you “come for us” in a fan board comment stream? You’ll just get perma-banned and no Scooper will ever hear from you again.
Now stand back, stand by and grow the eff up.
Mike we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Mike? POTUS has a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You root for America's death and you curse the President. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know; that DJT while unconventional, preserves our freedom. And his existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves America*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties,we want him on that wall. We need him on that wall. I use words like honor, code, loyalty. I use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something(my country). You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that DJT provides, and then questions the manner in which he provides it! I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pack up and pick another country. Either way, I don't give a *damn* what you think you are entitled to.
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I use words like honor, code, loyalty. I use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way,
None of those words would be used to describe President Pandemic. Honor? Code? Loyalty? Bone Spurs
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Mike we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Mike? POTUS has a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You root for America's death and you curse the President. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know; that DJT while unconventional, preserves our freedom. And his existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves America*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties,we want him on that wall. We need him on that wall. I use words like honor, code, loyalty. I use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something(my country). You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that DJT provides, and then questions the manner in which he provides it! I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pack up and pick another country. Either way, I don't give a *damn* what you think you are entitled to.
So you are comparing Trump to the bad guy from a Few Good Men....a man who ends up in prison at the end of the movie. I mean, if that's where you think he belongs....
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So you are comparing Trump to the bad guy from a Few Good Men....a man who ends up in prison at the end of the movie. I mean, if that's where you think he belongs....
If that's what you got out of that, I don't even know what to tell you.
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I mean, you literally quoted a fictional character whose bravado exceeded his actual abilities, illegally ordered an action that killed someone, and at the end of the film was arrested.
What exactly are we supposed to get out of that?
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I mean, you literally quoted a fictional character whose bravado exceeded his actual abilities, illegally ordered an action that killed someone, and at the end of the film was arrested.
What exactly are we supposed to get out of that?
That he believes "A Few Good Men" is a documentary?
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I mean, you literally quoted a fictional character whose bravado exceeded his actual abilities, illegally ordered an action that killed someone, and at the end of the film was arrested.
What exactly are we supposed to get out of that?
I’m not surprised he misses the entire point of that speech from that film
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I’m not surprised he misses the entire point of that speech from that film
Nope...i know exactly what it means. Anyone that is smart enough(which means NOT a liberal) would see what it means when you break it down line by line. But I wouldn't expect you to be intelligent enough to see it.
In fact, the key line is here...and this applies to EVERY single radical liberal here(Mike, Jockey, Rico..hell there's too many to name) You root for America's death . No truer words have ever been spoken. That is 100% factual and why you all vote the way you do. It's abhorrent and pathetic. There's 200+ countries in this world, go to one that you will be happier in...like say China or Venezuela.
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Uncle Rico is evil and must be destroyed
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Uncle Rico is evil and must be destroyed
He will be...I'm on it. ;)
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Nope...i know exactly what it means. Anyone that is smart enough(which means NOT a liberal) would see what it means when you break it down line by line. But I wouldn't expect you to be intelligent enough to see it.
In fact, the key line is here...and this applies to EVERY single radical liberal here(Mike, Jockey, Rico..hell there's too many to name) You root for America's death . No truer words have ever been spoken. That is 100% factual and why you all vote the way you do. It's abhorrent and pathetic. There's 200+ countries in this world, go to one that you will be happier in...like say China or Venezuela.
How someone votes is part of the very freedom you seem to think only one side of the aisle can protect. I’d pity you but you’re beneath that
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Uncle Rico is evil and must be destroyed
It’s true
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Are we sure this isn't Benny having a laugh with us?
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I got $10 when Guru dies (could be from on Nov 3 if things aren't going his way) they find the frozen bodies of left leaning people in his house or buried in his back yard.
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Nope...i know exactly what it means. Anyone that is smart enough(which means NOT a liberal) would see what it means when you break it down line by line. But I wouldn't expect you to be intelligent enough to see it.
In fact, the key line is here...and this applies to EVERY single radical liberal here(Mike, Jockey, Rico..hell there's too many to name) You root for America's death . No truer words have ever been spoken. That is 100% factual and why you all vote the way you do. It's abhorrent and pathetic. There's 200+ countries in this world, go to one that you will be happier in...like say China or Venezuela.
If by the death of America you mean putting an end to systemic racism and moving towards equality for all, yes, I’m rooting for America’s death.
I know there are a number of people here against that goal because they have benefitted from those things their entire life, but if wanting those things for all people is anti-American then I’m anti-American. Go Canada, or something.
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Code Red!
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Col. Jessup has officially lost his mind.
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Nope...i know exactly what it means. Anyone that is smart enough(which means NOT a liberal) would see what it means when you break it down line by line. But I wouldn't expect you to be intelligent enough to see it.
In fact, the key line is here...and this applies to EVERY single radical liberal here(Mike, Jockey, Rico..hell there's too many to name) You root for America's death . No truer words have ever been spoken. That is 100% factual and why you all vote the way you do. It's abhorrent and pathetic. There's 200+ countries in this world, go to one that you will be happier in...like say China or Venezuela.
This is why no one takes you seriously. People who love the country can vote for either candidate. Demonizing people who feel differently from you doesn’t solve any problems.
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A school district in Connecticut about 30 teachers dressed as RBG for Halloween. Some Trumpies are so hurt they are complaining to the school district.
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Hards, Guru (and probably a few others), tone down the rhetoric and insults. This here is for discussion. If you can't participate nicely, then we'll go on without you.
Hope everyone gets out there and votes! That's the real American thing to do. Yelling on the internet also *seems* to be American, but it's not very impactful.
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Mike we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Mike? POTUS has a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You root for America's death and you curse the President. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know; that DJT while unconventional, preserves our freedom. And his existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves America*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties,we want him on that wall. We need him on that wall. I use words like honor, code, loyalty. I use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something(my country). You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that DJT provides, and then questions the manner in which he provides it! I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pack up and pick another country. Either way, I don't give a *damn* what you think you are entitled to.
LMAO TOLD YOU GUYS, MEME ACCOUNT
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Hards, Guru (and probably a few others), tone down the rhetoric and insults. This here is for discussion. If you can't participate nicely, then we'll go on without you.
Hope everyone gets out there and votes! That's the real American thing to do. Yelling on the internet also *seems* to be American, but it's not very impactful.
Is it an insult to call shredded iceberg lettuce covered in ranch dressing a salad? Checking for a friend.
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How is being allowed to carry guns to the polls an example of voter suppression?
Have to call back to this. It's because in our history, black people have been intimidated and killed when they tried to use or gain the right to vote. In recent years, we have seen police murder citizens over and over. We have seen people like Kyle Rittenhouse murder lawful protestors and be propped up as heroes for those actions. Bringing guns to the polls, especially in the sense of illegal armed militias (private militias are not allowed to activate legally in any state in the Union) is voter intimidation and an attempt to disenfranchise Americans that are exercising their rights.
Call it intimidation, call it suppression, call it disenfranchisement, whatever. The clear intent is to stop voting.
Also, changing any laws regarding counting in the week before an election is a similarly clear attempt at disenfranchisement. Minnesota is the latest and best example. The rules for voting were in place for the past three months, clearly delineated, and everyone knew how it would be handled. Now at the eleventh hour there's a suit to change the rules everyone was previously clear on? There's obvious reasons why these lawsuits are coming now and not months ago, because one party wants to muddy the waters and understands it cannot win a fair election.
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I got $10 when Guru dies (could be from on Nov 3 if things aren't going his way) they find the frozen bodies of left leaning people in his house or buried in his back yard.
Left leaning? unnatural carnal knowledge, guru just called this guy a "HUGE liberal":
"John Michael Posobiec III is an American alt-right political activist and conspiracy theorist who is considered an Internet troll. Posobiec is best known for his pro-Donald Trump comments on Twitter, as well as using white-supremacist and anti-semitic symbols and talking points, including the white genocide conspiracy theory. He has promoted fake news, including the debunked Pizzagate conspiracy theory that high-ranking Democratic Party officials were involved in a child sex ring. As of 2018, he was working as a correspondent for One America News Network, a far-right cable news television channel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Posobiec
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North Carolina, now that early voting is complete:
Mail-in ballots received: 907,742
Early voting (16 days): 3,437,684
Total: 4,345,426
Party breakdown of those who have voted:
Democratic: 1,633,733
Republican: 1,378,537
Unaffiliated: 1,310,505
Libertarian: 18,905
Constitution: 1,946
Green: 1,760
59.2% of registered voters have already voted.
We have now reached 91.1% of the 2016 votes cast
Good job 82!
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What’s the turnout in Miami-Dade if these ballots are ever counted?
https://wsvn.com/news/politics/postal-distribution-center-audit-ordered-after-video-shows-ballots-in-bins-at-sw-miami-dade-branch/
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This is what Trump and DeJoy have been trying to engineer. It will be hilarious if it is the R votes that are getting held up, since as 538 said the R's have been returning theirs later.
Millions of Mail-in Ballots at Risk in Battleground States
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/millions-of-mail-in-ballots-at-risk-in-battleground-states/ar-BB1azk5n?ocid=msedgdhp
"Millions of mail-in ballots haven’t been received by election offices in critical battleground states, where recent slowdowns in mail deliveries risk some votes not arriving in time to count for the presidential election.
Nationwide, the Postal Service said just 62% of first-class mail was delivered on time on Tuesday, with Philadelphia and Detroit both seeing on-time delivery rates below 50% that day. Performance ticked up in those cities on Wednesday, with the national on-time delivery average currently hovering at 89%.
In the court filings, the Postal Service also gave a snapshot of mail-in ballot performance. Ballots arrived on time more often than regular first-class mail, though in some areas, a substantial number were late. On Thursday, 9% of returned mail-in ballots were late in Philadelphia and 20% were delivered late in Detroit. Overall, the Postal Service delivered 94% of returned ballots on time on Thursday, it said."
Gee, I wonder why the post office is holding up mail in those two cities? Election corruption, again.
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Are we sure this isn't Benny having a laugh with us?
That's funny, T. I thought the very same thing. Nobody can be that consistently stupid unless they are trying to be.
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What’s the turnout in Miami-Dade if these ballots are ever counted?
https://wsvn.com/news/politics/postal-distribution-center-audit-ordered-after-video-shows-ballots-in-bins-at-sw-miami-dade-branch/
This is what Rs have been fighting for. In a city like Philadelphia (large black Dem population), only 42% of 1st class mail is being delivered on time.
Voting is THE bedrock of democracy. This is an open attempt at a coup.
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The voting numbers are absolutely incredible.
Texas is already at 108% of the 2016 vote total, and several key states (GA, NC, FL and AZ) are all well above 85%. Clicking around the map, the overwhelming majority of states are well above 50%.
This is a great thing.
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The voting numbers are absolutely incredible.
Texas is already at 108% of the 2016 vote total, and several key states (GA, NC, FL and AZ) are all well above 85%. Clicking around the map, the overwhelming majority of states are well above 50%.
This is a great thing.
If only voting was easy.
Texas Republicans seek to throw out 100,000 Harris County (Houston) ballots:
https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1322602843661021184?s=19
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If only voting was easy.
Texas Republicans seek to throw out 100,000 Harris County (Houston) ballots:
https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1322602843661021184?s=19
It never stops.
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Have to call back to this. It's because in our history, black people have been intimidated and killed when they tried to use or gain the right to vote. In recent years, we have seen police murder citizens over and over. We have seen people like Kyle Rittenhouse murder lawful protestors and be propped up as heroes for those actions. Bringing guns to the polls, especially in the sense of illegal armed militias (private militias are not allowed to activate legally in any state in the Union) is voter intimidation and an attempt to disenfranchise Americans that are exercising their rights.
Call it intimidation, call it suppression, call it disenfranchisement, whatever. The clear intent is to stop voting.
I guess they should pass out comfy blankets too. Because if someone isn't 100% comfortable at the polls, it is clearly intimidation.
Look, open carry is legal in Michigan. It has been allowed at the polls in the past. The simple act of someone carrying a gun openly isn't intimidation.
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I guess they should pass out comfy blankets too. Because if someone isn't 100% comfortable at the polls, it is clearly intimidation.
Look, open carry is legal in Michigan. It has been allowed at the polls in the past. The simple act of someone carrying a gun openly isn't intimidation.
The bolded is just idiotic and fully chico-worthy. No one on this board has EVER said that. chico was the best at making something up and then arguing against it. You are now a very close second.
Secondly, you might want to read about the civil rights movement and the history of black voter intimidation by both police and whites through the use of guns. The act of carrying a gun may not always be intimidation, but wake up. When militias with military assault rifles show up the the polls, it is 100% an attempt at intimidation.
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If only it were easy to vote:
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article246861942.html
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The bolded is just idiotic and fully chico-worthy. No one on this board has EVER said that. chico was the best at making something up and then arguing against it. You are now a very close second.
Secondly, you might want to read about the civil rights movement and the history of black voter intimidation by both police and whites through the use of guns. The act of carrying a gun may not always be intimidation, but wake up. When militias with military assault rifles show up the the polls, it is 100% an attempt at intimidation.
The first was clearly hyperbole. Intelligent people would realize that. You didn't. Therefore....
Maybe you should read up on Michigan law. Carrying a holstered firearm openly isn't illegal. Waving or displaying a firearm in a threatening manner is considered brandishing and is therefore illegal. If brandishing a firearm at the polls takes place, it should be dealt with.
There are exceptions to the right to open carry in Michigan laid out in state law. The Michigan Secretary of State does not have the legal right to add to that list unilaterally.
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If only voting was easy:
https://twitter.com/ericcervini/status/1322336226792321025
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If only voting was easy:
https://twitter.com/ericcervini/status/1322336226792321025
So much for the hand-wringing over “cancel culture.”
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Texas GOP attempting to disenfranchise voters who voted via drive-through in Houston, where the plan was approved by the Republican Sec of State months ago. Really projecting strength here
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A sign the apocalypse is now:
https://twitter.com/glennkesslerwp/status/1322644157937127426
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https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/democrats-cancel-central-texas-events-after-trump-supporters-surround-follow-biden-bus-on-i-35/?fbclid=IwAR2Csg_lOb3S5Kc7R0yecGdfp3rUVh7zwBZgxt9HG23mxWRWiJ5A1HZkVC0
Texas.
I fear for next week, no matter what happens.
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I remember when the phrase “Not my President” triggered a bunch of MAGA snowflakes in 2016. I guess the proper response to a candidate or president you don’t support/vote for is intimidation. The real American, patriotic way.
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I hope every Scooper and his/her loved ones have voted.
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Ah, no ewe don't, hey?
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If only it were easy to vote:
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article246861942.html
Why didn’t they just put their comfy blankets over their heads to block the pepper spray?
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If only voting was easy:
https://twitter.com/ericcervini/status/1322336226792321025
Armed men surrounding a bus is just fine. They probably weren’t brandishing them.
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Why didn’t they just put their comfy blankets over their heads to block the pepper spray?
Armed men surrounding a bus is just fine. They probably weren’t brandishing them.
Man do I own you.
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Man do I own you.
You have provided some good laughs for me and my wife today. We thank you.
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Texas GOP attempting to disenfranchise voters who voted via drive-through in Houston, where the plan was approved by the Republican Sec of State months ago. Really projecting strength here
The right to vote is probably the most pro-American thing I can think of, it is so strange that a party that tries to promote itself as so "American" goes out of their way to suppress the vote.
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The right to vote is probably the most pro-American thing I can think of, it is so strange that a party that tries to promote itself as so "American" goes out of their way to suppress the vote.
MAGA, hey?
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If voting was easy PA version:
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1322712461724672000?s=19
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If voting was easy PA version:
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1322712461724672000?s=19
I think Trump runs the risk of over playing his hand if it gets to the Supreme Court with moves like these.
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New NYT poll shows Biden widening his lead in Wisconsin to 11 points, and also leading in the battleground states of PA, AZ and FL.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/01/us/politics/biden-trump-poll-florida-pennsylvania-wisconsin.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201101&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=43084&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
Joseph R. Biden Jr. holds a clear advantage over President Trump across four of the most important presidential swing states, a new poll shows, bolstered by the support of voters who did not participate in the 2016 election and who now appear to be turning out in large numbers to cast their ballots, mainly for the Democrat.
Mr. Biden, the former vice president, is ahead of Mr. Trump in the Northern battlegrounds of Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, as well as in the Sun Belt states of Florida and Arizona, according to a poll of likely voters conducted by The New York Times and Siena College. His strength is most pronounced in Wisconsin, where he has an outright majority of the vote and leads Mr. Trump by 11 points, 52 percent to 41 percent.
Mr. Biden’s performance across the electoral map appears to put him in a stronger position heading into Election Day than any presidential candidate since at least 2008, when in the midst of a global economic crisis Barack Obama captured the White House with 365 Electoral College votes and Mr. Biden at his side.
Mr. Trump’s apparent weakness in many of the country’s largest electoral prizes leaves him with a narrow path to the 270 Electoral College votes required to claim victory, short of a major upset or a systemic error in opinion polling surpassing even the missteps preceding the 2016 election. Should Mr. Biden’s lead hold in three of the four states tested in the survey, it would almost certainly be enough to win, and if he were to carry Florida, he would most likely need to flip just one more large state that Mr. Trump won in 2016 to clinch the presidency.
Yes, pollsters were wrong about Wisconsin in 2016. However, none had Clinton with a double-digit lead there 3 days before the election.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/raw-desperation-republican-party/616904/
Eventually the Republican Party is going to have to broaden their appeal. They are on the unpopular side of a lot of issues.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/raw-desperation-republican-party/616904/
Eventually the Republican Party is going to have to broaden their appeal. They are on the unpopular side of a lot of issues.
Jonah Goldberg is one of an unfortunately shrinking group of smart, rational conservatives out there. I don't agree with him on everything, but his arguments are usually well-reasoned and thoughtful.
Anyhow, piggybacking on this, he wrote a good piece this week about how the GOP's outright disdain for American cities will weaken the party in the long run.
https://www.stltoday.com/opinion/columnists/national/jonah-goldberg-gop-disdain-for-big-cities-is-a-losing-strategy/article_012f76e8-d2cf-561b-9ba5-e56b304d9505.html
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Jonah Goldberg is one of an unfortunately shrinking group of smart, rational conservatives out there. I don't agree with him on everything, but his arguments are usually well-reasoned and thoughtful.
Anyhow, piggybacking on this, he wrote a good piece this week about how the GOP's outright disdain for American cities will weaken the party in the long run.
https://www.stltoday.com/opinion/columnists/national/jonah-goldberg-gop-disdain-for-big-cities-is-a-losing-strategy/article_012f76e8-d2cf-561b-9ba5-e56b304d9505.html
Was going to post this as well. I did 7 years in rural Wisconsin and the disdain for big cities puzzled me. There is a symbiotic relationship that rural Wisconsin ignores at every turn. A lot of the same problems that plague rural Wisconsin is strikingly similar to what plagues Milwaukee and Madison.
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Yes, pollsters were wrong about Wisconsin in 2016. However, none had Clinton with a double-digit lead there 3 days before the election.
Nate Silver's 538 site reminds us that in 2016, Trump was only a 'normal-sized polling error' (less than one standard deviation) away from winning. So while it was clearly an upset, it wasn't the statistically unbelievable outcome it has been portrayed to be.
Silver has shown that Biden's lead is well beyond the 'normal-sized polling error' lead of Clinton in 2016. So even if the polls are off by as much as they were in 2016, Biden would still win 335 electoral votes. In fact, for Trump to have a chance, the polls would have to be off by nearly two standard deviations. He calls this - between one and two standard deviations - the 'zone of plausibility.' So in Silver's terms, it is not likely that Trump can overcome the polling deficit, but it is not implausible.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-can-still-win-but-the-polls-would-have-to-be-off-by-way-more-than-in-2016/
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Yes. Healthy, vital cities lift up entire regions. A vibrant Milwaukee improves the entire state. There is a reason that my home is one of the hottest real estate markets and on a whole bunch of hot lists, despite being in a snow belt. Money has been invested in the core city. Government has worked with investors.
It can work. It can also fail. All it takes is greed and/or stupidity.
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https://youtu.be/Wfun5G0pDos
Economics of Biden and Trump
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I think the problem with the Republican party is that they have become focused on "traditionalism." A rose-colored look at what America used to be, and a desire to go back there. Whatever "there" is. And therefore you have people like guru feel that those who are against Republicans, are therefore anti-American. There is no sense that change can actually be better. Or better said, that change within the bounds of what has made this country great could actually make it even greater.
I actually think this is the inevitable result of appealing to evangelical Christians. Largely rural (or suburban), whiter, older traditionalists.
Finally, I think the biggest mistake the Republicans made, was turning so sharply anti-immigrant. From a social and economic perspective, the Hispanic population by and large has more in common with the Republicans of 25-30 years ago than they do the Democrats of today. But again, when you bow to "traditional America" there is little room for people who speak a different language.
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I think the problem with the Republican party is that they have become focused on "traditionalism." A rose-colored look at what America used to be, and a desire to go back there. Whatever "there" is. And therefore you have people like guru feel that those who are against Republicans, are therefore anti-American. There is no sense that change can actually be better. Or better said, that change within the bounds of what has made this country great could actually make it even greater.
I actually think this is the inevitable result of appealing to evangelical Christians. Largely rural (or suburban), whiter, older traditionalists.
Finally, I think the biggest mistake the Republicans made, was turning so sharply anti-immigrant. From a social and economic perspective, the Hispanic population by and large has more in common with the Republicans of 25-30 years ago than they do the Democrats of today. But again, when you bow to "traditional America" there is little room for people who speak a different language.
Yep - the 'good old days' mindset.
The problem is that this doesn't allow for positive change or new demographics. And as Billy Joel once said "the good old days weren't always good."
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https://youtu.be/Wfun5G0pDos
Economics of Biden and Trump
Just remember that well-known liberal firm Moody's thinks Biden's plan is better for the American people: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.moodysanalytics.com/-/media/article/2020/the-macroeconomic-consequences-trump-vs-biden.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi1187U2OHsAhWpAp0JHansAzQQFjABegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw3aZuXw-OSn5aegUQiG6i5U (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.moodysanalytics.com/-/media/article/2020/the-macroeconomic-consequences-trump-vs-biden.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi1187U2OHsAhWpAp0JHansAzQQFjABegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw3aZuXw-OSn5aegUQiG6i5U)
Also, it seems that the Trump election strategy is coming into focus: https://twitter.com/saletan/status/1322912856153739266?s=19 (https://twitter.com/saletan/status/1322912856153739266?s=19)
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Finally, I think the biggest mistake the Republicans made, was turning so sharply anti-immigrant. From a social and economic perspective, the Hispanic population by and large has more in common with the Republicans of 25-30 years ago than they do the Democrats of today. But again, when you bow to "traditional America" there is little room for people who speak a different language.
And frankly, there's a good deal of the black community, especially those that are religious, that have a lot of conservative views.
What you said about immigration, and Goldberg's piece about the cities are bang on on the money. As someone who worked Republican campaigns, I don't recognize this party. The fact the party sold it's soul to Trump and the alt-right is so infuriating to me.
It will take generations to recover from the damage he's done, if the party recovers at all.
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And frankly, there's a good deal of the black community, especially those that are religious, that have a lot of conservative views.
What you said about immigration, and Goldberg's piece about the cities are bang on on the money. As someone who worked Republican campaigns, I don't recognize this party. The fact the party sold it's soul to Trump and the alt-right is so infuriating to me.
It will take generations to recover from the damage he's done, if the party recovers at all.
Trafficking in tin foil hattery doesn’t help them either.
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Nate Silver's 538 site reminds us that in 2016, Trump was only a 'normal-sized polling error' (less than one standard deviation) away from winning. So while it was clearly an upset, it wasn't the statistically unbelievable outcome it has been portrayed to be.
Silver has shown that Biden's lead is well beyond the 'normal-sized polling error' lead of Clinton in 2016. So even if the polls are off by as much as they were in 2016, Biden would still win 335 electoral votes. In fact, for Trump to have a chance, the polls would have to be off by nearly two standard deviations. He calls this - between one and two standard deviations - the 'zone of plausibility.' So in Silver's terms, it is not likely that Trump can overcome the polling deficit, but it is not implausible.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-can-still-win-but-the-polls-would-have-to-be-off-by-way-more-than-in-2016/
Right.
538 gave Trump a 30 percent chance in 2016. The site currently gives him a 10 percent chance. Certainly not impossible, but much more improbable than four years ago.
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Yep - the 'good old days' mindset.
The problem is that this doesn't allow for positive change or new demographics. And as Billy Joel once said "the good old days weren't always good."
Doesn’t “good old days” really mean good old days for whites?
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@chucklindell: The Texas Supreme Court on Sunday rejected, without comment, a bid by three Republican candidates and a GOP activist to toss out almost 127,000 votes cast in drive-thru lanes in the emerging Democratic stronghold of Harris County.
The developing story at:
https://www.statesman.com/news/20201101/texas-court-rejects-bid-to-toss-127000-harris-county-votes-but-fight-isnrsquot-over
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@chucklindell: The Texas Supreme Court on Sunday rejected, without comment, a bid by three Republican candidates and a GOP activist to toss out almost 127,000 votes cast in drive-thru lanes in the emerging Democratic stronghold of Harris County.
The developing story at:
https://www.statesman.com/news/20201101/texas-court-rejects-bid-to-toss-127000-harris-county-votes-but-fight-isnrsquot-over
They also filed in Federal courts, so it’s still kinda up in the air.
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I think the problem with the Republican party is that they have become focused on "traditionalism." A rose-colored look at what America used to be, and a desire to go back there. Whatever "there" is. And therefore you have people like guru feel that those who are against Republicans, are therefore anti-American. There is no sense that change can actually be better. Or better said, that change within the bounds of what has made this country great could actually make it even greater.
I actually think this is the inevitable result of appealing to evangelical Christians. Largely rural (or suburban), whiter, older traditionalists.
Finally, I think the biggest mistake the Republicans made, was turning so sharply anti-immigrant. From a social and economic perspective, the Hispanic population by and large has more in common with the Republicans of 25-30 years ago than they do the Democrats of today. But again, when you bow to "traditional America" there is little room for people who speak a different language.
Interesting post, and good point.
We’ve seen examples of this beyond politics, too. For example, in Col. Jessup’s posts in the Al, he constantly pines for the past and/or status quo in regards to basketball stuff; and he’s almost always against change, especially change favoring the powerless at the expense of the powerful. He’s not the only one, but probably the most vocal.
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They also filed in Federal courts, so it’s still kinda up in the air.
In the election cases that have gone to SCOTUS thus far, they have respected decisions by the states and their courts. If they are consistent, the TX Supreme Court's ruling should stand.
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https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article246877387.html
The president tweets video of the Biden bus being surrounded and harassed, and says ‘I love Texas’.
How people condone this is beyond me.
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@chucklindell: The Texas Supreme Court on Sunday rejected, without comment, a bid by three Republican candidates and a GOP activist to toss out almost 127,000 votes cast in drive-thru lanes in the emerging Democratic stronghold of Harris County.
The developing story at:
https://www.statesman.com/news/20201101/texas-court-rejects-bid-to-toss-127000-harris-county-votes-but-fight-isnrsquot-over
Not quite sure why they waited so long to file. If Texas law really does state that the legislature needs to change voting procedures, the case probably would have merit.
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https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article246877387.html
The president tweets video of the Biden bus being surrounded and harassed, and says ‘I love Texas’.
How people condone this is beyond me.
He said his supporters were trying to protect the bus.
After one of his aides said the Trump campaign doesn't condone the behavior
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He said his supporters were trying to protect the bus.
After one of his aides said the Trump campaign doesn't condone the behavior
Nobody undermines his own people quite like the President himself
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#terrorists
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https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article246877387.html
The president tweets video of the Biden bus being surrounded and harassed, and says ‘I love Texas’.
How people condone this is beyond me.
Yeah ... but Kamala Harris is a “monster.”
The emperor loves terrorists and gangs and thugs ... as long as they are white terrorists and gangs and thugs.
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Yeah ... but Kamala Harris is a “monster.”
The emperor loves terrorists and gangs and thugs ... as long as they are white terrorists and gangs and thugs.
He has a fondness for dictators, too
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https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article246877387.html
The president tweets video of the Biden bus being surrounded and harassed, and says ‘I love Texas’.
How people condone this is beyond me.
Because they're bad people?
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In the election cases that have gone to SCOTUS thus far, they have respected decisions by the states and their courts. If they are consistent, the TX Supreme Court's ruling should stand.
The last one was 4-4, without Justice Stepford ruling.
He said his supporters were trying to protect the bus.
After one of his aides said the Trump campaign doesn't condone the behavior
And if one believes that then they also believe dogs can speak fluent Portuguese if pet them in the right place.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/01/ben-ginsberg-voter-suppression-republicans/#click=https://t.co/Cien4D2tob
GOP Election Lawyer:
"Voter Fraud is a fraud devised to suppress votes "
"Proof of systematic voter fraud has become the Loch Ness Monster of the Republican Party. People have spent a lot of time looking for it, but it doesn't exist "
"The Trump campaign and Republican entities engaged in more than 40 voting and ballot and court cases around the country this year." In exactly none, zero, are they making it easier for citizens to vote. In many, they are seeking to erect barriers."
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In the election cases that have gone to SCOTUS thus far, they have respected decisions by the states and their courts. If they are consistent, the TX Supreme Court's ruling should stand.
There is a new judge waiting in the wings to break any ties. She quite possibly will be the deciding vote in this election.
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@JoeNBC: Florida update: Democrats added 12,000 today. They will go into Election Day with a 100,000+ advantage. Hillary was at 90,000. Florida will come down to the approximately 2.5 million “independents”. Both sides agree the race is extremely close & both sides think they’ll win.
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95 million people have already voted. Over 100 million people expected to vote before Tuesday:
https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1323087518112358400?s=19
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The last one was 4-4, without Justice Stepford ruling.
Fess up ... did you make that up, or do you just know a good line when you steal one (as do I)?
Because I gotta admit, I’m stealin’ “Justice Stepford”!
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Fess up ... did you make that up, or do you just know a good line when you steal one (as do I)?
Because I gotta admit, I’m stealin’ “Justice Stepford”!
I actually did make it up. Was thinking about Handmaiden too. Steal away!
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There is a new judge waiting in the wings to break any ties. She quite possibly will be the deciding vote in this election.
Which they have admitted is exactly why they rushed the confirmation.
If not through the courts they’ll try to steal it through the electors. Who wouldn’t put is past Vos and Fitzgerald to overrule the will of the voters and send their own electors?
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Regarding the incident in Texas with the Biden bus, Trump tweeted Sunday that those patriots did nothing wrong.
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I actually did make it up. Was thinking about Handmaiden too. Steal away!
I've seen a lot of references to Handmaid's Tale, so I really like Justice Stepford. Well done.
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Nebraska, Pennsylvania, and now Georgia last night leaving people stranded:
https://twitter.com/JulieNBCNews/status/1323140942623313920?s=19
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97% of votes expected to be in and counted on election night in North Carolina:
https://amp.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article246877117.html?__twitter_impression=true
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Nebraska, Pennsylvania, and now Georgia last night leaving people stranded:
https://twitter.com/JulieNBCNews/status/1323140942623313920?s=19
I don’t believe it. trump cares about his people.
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For those concerned about USPS delays of absentee ballots, or court rulings that restrict receipt dates, another possible option.
Here in Minnesota, a person can check the status of their absentee ballot online. In an MPR News article this morning, the Secretary of State clarified that you still can vote in person if it appears that your absentee ballot wasn't received in a timely manner. If you do that, your 'transit' ballot is overridden so it won't be counted when it is ultimately received.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/11/01/nearly-1-point-7-million-minnesotans-have-cast-ballots-in-early-voting
He urged people to check the status of their ballot at mnvotes.org, and consider voting in person if a ballot remains outstanding.
“You can override the in-transit ballot. And what happens then is you will vote in-person and when that ballot arrives say Wednesday, Thursday or Friday it just won’t be counted,” Simon said. “It will be invalidated. The voter will have been shown as already having voted in-person.”
----------------
I don't know what the rules are in other states, but I urge anyone who is concerned about mailing/receipt dates and deadlines to check with their state or local election officials.
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NC also accepting ballots received late, so the calculus will need to be margin + the ballots outstanding that theoretically could arrive late (unless those voters turned out in person instead)
Glad to see such a high percentage night of, though I think the NC margins are razor thin.
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For those concerned about USPS delays of absentee ballots, or court rulings that restrict receipt dates, another possible option.
Here in Minnesota, a person can check the status of their absentee ballot online. In an MPR News article this morning, the Secretary of State clarified that you still can vote in person if it appears that your absentee ballot wasn't received in a timely manner. If you do that, your 'transit' ballot is overridden so it won't be counted when it is ultimately received.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/11/01/nearly-1-point-7-million-minnesotans-have-cast-ballots-in-early-voting
He urged people to check the status of their ballot at mnvotes.org, and consider voting in person if a ballot remains outstanding.
“You can override the in-transit ballot. And what happens then is you will vote in-person and when that ballot arrives say Wednesday, Thursday or Friday it just won’t be counted,” Simon said. “It will be invalidated. The voter will have been shown as already having voted in-person.”
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I don't know what the rules are in other states, but I urge anyone who is concerned about mailing/receipt dates and deadlines to check with their state or local election officials.
I like this rule a lot. Very common sense way of making sure every voter's ballot is counted.
97% of votes expected to be in and counted on election night in North Carolina:
https://amp.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article246877117.html?__twitter_impression=true
(https://media.giphy.com/media/oX8uGU2kR9wxXBlZlk/giphy.gif)
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Submitted without comment:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/El1U1hPXIAMGRxp?format=png&name=900x900)
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One would think Karen would be 60-40 the other way.
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These people seem nice.
https://twitter.com/balleralert/status/1323305624214642693
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Looks like we have to change ‘Karen’ to Nancy or Jennifer.
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Nevada Judge denies Republican and Trump Campaign requests to change ballot processing and observing, to stop using the signature matching machine. The court found that if the machine was not used, the county would not be able to meet the canvas deadline.
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Pakuni, that Twitter link is why people march, and why this election is so important.
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These people seem nice.
https://twitter.com/balleralert/status/1323305624214642693
How dumb and trashy can people be that they think they have that right but don't see the similarities between the more aggressive protestors and rioters at the marches. I mean they're no better.
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How dumb and trashy can people be that they think they have that right but don't see the similarities between the more aggressive protestors and rioters at the marches. I mean they're no better.
Dumb/trashy/violent people are always going to display those traits.
My bigger concern is the police that we should be holding to a higher standard.
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Wow, I haven't read this thread since last week
muguru has returned?
Which of you posted his bail?
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These people seem nice.
https://twitter.com/balleralert/status/1323305624214642693
Bakersfield, CA.
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Dumb/trashy/violent people are always going to display those traits.
My bigger concern is the police that we should be holding to a higher standard.
Sadly it was just what I expected. Personally was just glad those cops didn't try to arrest the people who were harassed and prayed.
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Submitted without comment:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/El1U1hPXIAMGRxp?format=png&name=900x900)
The Karens are all just shy trump voters.
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These people seem nice.
https://twitter.com/balleralert/status/1323305624214642693
Trump did say he has the police on his side.
I fear there will be a lot more of this on Tuesday/Wednesday. Hoping some cops will actually do their job.
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Submitted without comment:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/El1U1hPXIAMGRxp?format=png&name=900x900)
I guess I'll take the low hanging fruit.
Im unsurprised to learn that there are bunch of trump supporters who are Dicks
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The jokes do write themselves sometimes.
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Bucks County (Philadelphia) PA line to correct absentee ballots:
https://twitter.com/CHueyBurns/status/1323284335798243330?s=19
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I guess I'll take the low hanging fruit.
Im unsurprised to learn that there are bunch of trump supporters who are Dicks
the names of my parents are both on there. No surprise.
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I fear there will be a lot more of this on Tuesday/Wednesday. Hoping some cops will actually do their job.
When I saw the highway stunts, my first thought was this is what they're gonna do in blue areas to try and impede voting.
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Trump did say he has the police on his side.
They certainly were working for him Saturday in NC, when they pepper-sprayed a rally that not only was peaceful but for which the participants had a permit.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/election-graham-north-carolina-protest/2020/11/01/beee5d8c-1c64-11eb-90dd-abd0f7086a91_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2c77a18%2F5fa03cd69d2fda0efb5ab8c2%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F40%2F71%2Fb3563592a6e9cbfdd26e210ad7669201
GRAHAM, N.C. — The voters came in black sweatshirts emblazoned with the mantra of the late Georgia congressman and civil rights icon John Lewis, who celebrated "good trouble."
Fists and iPhones raised, they chanted “Black lives matter” and promised “power to the people,” as they made their way from a Black church to the base of a monument to a Confederate soldier. In its shadow, they paused for 8 minutes and 46 seconds, honoring George Floyd, the Black man killed by a Minneapolis police officer who knelt on his neck for what was later determined to be 7 minutes and 46 seconds.
The participants in Saturday’s “I Am Change” march had intended to conclude at an early-voting site to emphasize turnout in the final days of the presidential campaign. Those plans were thrown into disarray when law-enforcement officers in riot gear and gas masks insisted demonstrators move off the street and clear county property, despite a permit authorizing their presence.
As tensions escalated, officers deployed pepper spray and began making arrests. Among those caught in clouds of the irritant were children as young as 3 years old, as well as elderly residents and a disabled woman, said participants in the march.
The episode, which was live-streamed on Facebook by the march’s organizer, the Rev. Greg Drumwright of nearby Greensboro, unfolded three days before an election that feels to many Americans like the edge of an abyss. It capped nearly a half-year of protests after the killing of Floyd. And it reflected efforts to channel indignation on the street into power at the ballot box in North Carolina, a critical battleground state, and other places deciding the country’s direction.
“The world wants to know what’s going on in Alamance County,” Drumwright said, invoking the rallying cry of anti-Vietnam War activists.
His outrage was echoed by state and national leaders, including North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper (D), who called the incident “unacceptable.” The Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law described the police response as a form of voter suppression.
In a statement, the Graham Police Department said its officers had made eight arrests, arguing that force had been justified by the refusal of demonstrators to disperse after the gathering had “reached a level of conduct that led to the rally being deemed unsafe and unlawful by unified command.”
The department also defended the deployment of what it called a “pepper-based vapor,” saying its officers did not “directly spray any participant in the march” — an account at odds with the statements of numerous participants.
The Alamance County Sheriff’s Office issued a one-line tweet, saying, “Unfortunately the rally in Graham ended due to concerns for the safety of all.” The office has previously faced scrutiny for what the Justice Department in 2012 called “discriminatory policing,” leading to a civil rights lawsuit against Terry S. Johnson, the county sheriff. After a Republican-appointed federal judge dismissed the suit, federal prosecutors agreed to drop the case in exchange for revisions. Since then, Johnson has twice won reelection, both times running unopposed.
In August, a U.S. district judge in the Middle District of North Carolina blocked county officials, including Johnson, from prohibiting protests in certain areas around the county courthouse in response to a lawsuit brought by the Lawyers’ Committee and the state branch of the American Civil Liberties Union.
These events were the backdrop against which the weekend’s conflict unfolded. Drumwright, who was arrested Saturday and ordered not to return to Graham for 72 hours, seemed to point to earlier struggles as he offered this assessment: “We’re tattered. We’re torn. We’re pressed on every side.”
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These people seem nice.
https://twitter.com/balleralert/status/1323305624214642693
They are brownshirts through and through, and one side is absolutely OK with that. I mean, they are very fine people according to POTUS. Their uniform of choice is trashy shirts and camo rather than brown, but that's the only difference.
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When I saw the highway stunts, my first thought was this is what they're gonna do in blue areas to try and impede voting.
Urging on the terrorists!
https://crooksandliars.com/2020/11/pirro-applauds-trump-supporters
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They certainly were working for him Saturday in NC, when they pepper-sprayed a rally that not only was peaceful but for which the participants had a permit.
....
Gotta pepper spray the kids so they learn their lesson early. At least they didn't gather them up and put them in cages.
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These terrorists aren't going away anytime soon.
https://crooksandliars.com/2020/11/how-noisy-jerks-blocking-traffic-helping
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jb looking ever more prescient.
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An essay on Trump's fake voter fraud, from lifelong conservative Benjamin Ginsberg, who spent many years helping Republicans root out actual voter fraud:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/01/ben-ginsberg-voter-suppression-republicans/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2c77a19%2F5fa03cd69d2fda0efb5ab8c2%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F42%2F71%2Fb3563592a6e9cbfdd26e210ad7669201
President Trump has failed the test of leadership. His bid for reelection is foundering. And his only solution has been to launch an all-out, multimillion-dollar effort to disenfranchise voters — first by seeking to block state laws to ease voting during the pandemic, and now, in the final stages of the campaign, by challenging the ballots of individual voters unlikely to support him.
This is as un-American as it gets. It returns the Republican Party to the bad old days of “voter suppression” that landed it under a court order to stop such tactics — an order lifted before this election. It puts the party on the wrong side of demographic changes in this country that threaten to make the GOP a permanent minority.
These are painful words for me to write. I spent four decades in the Republican trenches, representing GOP presidential and congressional campaigns, working on Election Day operations, recounts, redistricting and other issues, including trying to lift the consent decree.
Nearly every Election Day since 1984 I’ve worked with Republican poll watchers, observers and lawyers to record and litigate any fraud or election irregularities discovered.
The truth is that over all those years Republicans found only isolated incidents of fraud. Proof of systematic fraud has become the Loch Ness Monster of the Republican Party. People have spent a lot of time looking for it, but it doesn’t exist.
As he confronts losing, Trump has devoted his campaign and the Republican Party to this myth of voter fraud. Absent being able to articulate a cogent plan for a second term or find an attack against Joe Biden that will stick, disenfranchising enough voters has become key to his reelection strategy.
Perhaps this was the plan all along. The president’s unsubstantiated talk about “rigged” elections caused by absentee ballot “fraud” and “cheating” has been around since 2016; it’s just increased in recent weeks.
Trump has enlisted a compliant Republican Party in this shameful effort. The Trump campaign and Republican entities engaged in more than 40 voting and ballot court cases around the country this year. In exactly none — zero — are they trying to make it easier for citizens to vote. In many, they are seeking to erect barriers.
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@chucklindell: The Texas Supreme Court on Sunday rejected, without comment, a bid by three Republican candidates and a GOP activist to toss out almost 127,000 votes cast in drive-thru lanes in the emerging Democratic stronghold of Harris County.
The developing story at:
https://www.statesman.com/news/20201101/texas-court-rejects-bid-to-toss-127000-harris-county-votes-but-fight-isnrsquot-over
Federal Judge Andrew Hanen, a GW Bush appointee, also ruled today that the 127k Drive Thru votes must be counted.
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Federal Judge Andrew Hanen, a GW Bush appointee, also ruled today that the 127k Drive Thru votes must be counted.
Since taking my current job, I've grown to respect the judiciary more and more. Hanen is about as conservative of a judge as you can find at the federal level but he upheld the law over his party. You'll find a few "activist" judges on both sides but I've found most take their roles very seriously and keep the politics out of their decisions. It's a refreshing change of pace
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Since taking my current job, I've grown to respect the judiciary more and more. Hanen is about as conservative of a judge as you can find at the federal level but he upheld the law over his party. You'll find a few "activist" judges on both sides but I've found most take their roles very seriously and keep the politics out of their decisions. It's a refreshing change of pace
Yes. Also, the Supreme Court is also historically been concerned about the image of the Court. And throwing out ballots that were legally cast, to swing an election to a candidate (when that candidate has zero authority over them), isn't likely to happen IMO because of this.
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These terrorists aren't going away anytime soon.
https://crooksandliars.com/2020/11/how-noisy-jerks-blocking-traffic-helping
Shutting down highways is only an issue when the people shutting them down are fighting for equality in America. That's when the tear gas and riot gear comes out. Preventing people from getting to the polls? Nothing to see here!
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Since taking my current job, I've grown to respect the judiciary more and more. Hanen is about as conservative of a judge as you can find at the federal level but he upheld the law over his party. You'll find a few "activist" judges on both sides but I've found most take their roles very seriously and keep the politics out of their decisions. It's a refreshing change of pace
You know, you're right. For each of us, it's not easy to take our politics out of it, but I agree with what you're saying here.
Yes. Also, the Supreme Court is also historically been concerned about the image of the Court. And throwing out ballots that were legally cast, to swing an election to a candidate (when that candidate has zero authority over them), isn't likely to happen IMO because of this.
Here's hoping. I certainly have come to feel pretty good about Roberts in this vein. I know I caused a mini-firestorm with what I said about Justice Stepford a few days ago, so I won't repeat it here, but I hope you're right.
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Since taking my current job, I've grown to respect the judiciary more and more. Hanen is about as conservative of a judge as you can find at the federal level but he upheld the law over his party. You'll find a few "activist" judges on both sides but I've found most take their roles very seriously and keep the politics out of their decisions. It's a refreshing change of pace
I have known Hanen for three decades going back to his days as a corporate litigator; opposed him in few cases. I would disagree that he is "about as conservative of a judge as you can find at the federal level" - hyperbole. He certainly respects rule of law, he listens and is fair. He certainly prefers precedent over making new law and therefore is not an activist. Actually, He is typical of most federal judges appointed before our recent times...academic and professional skills/reputation were paramount. Smart guy hard worker
The recent round of federal appointees include many lacking those skills (a bunch that couldn't even garner ABA approval--long considered a minimum for senate approval--) and such now take a back seat to political connection/preconceptions . This has occurred before in our history and it takes about a generation to rotate them back out. These too shall pass
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Yes. A lot of things have happened in our history and have passed and rarely even thought of after.
Does anyone think of the 1876 election any longer? Probably the most corrupt in history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Commission_(United_States)
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Yes. A lot of things have happened in our history and have passed and rarely even thought of after.
Does anyone think of the 1876 election any longer? Probably the most corrupt in history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Commission_(United_States)
Maybe the election itself is forgotten, but the effects were dramatic and felt for a LONG time.
From the wiki:
One major outcome of the electoral commission and the Compromise of 1877 was the return of the South to "local rule" via the removal of federal troops, effectively ending the Reconstruction era and the federal government's enforcement of post-bellum equality in the South was no more.
This resulted in Democrat takeovers of the Southern legislatures, typically by the same kind of fraud and violence that had previously been counteracted by federal troops under President Grant's command. These new Democratic Party governments quickly implemented Jim Crow laws which imposed a legal system of racial discrimination that effectively reversed all the gains of Reconstruction, and also disenfranchised virtually all black people in the South until 1965.
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In summer 2019 I was out in NW Ohio for a few days and we visited the Rutherford Hayes home and museum. I really didn’t know many things about that election until then. Talk about deal-making!
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Someone hit me with this Sofie’s Choice about an hour ago: 8 more years of Wojo or 4 more years of Trump?
Gotta pick one.
No abstaining allowed.
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Someone hit me with this Sofie’s Choice about an hour ago: 8 more years of Wojo or 4 more years of Trump?
Gotta pick one.
No abstaining allowed.
That's actually pretty easy.
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Someone hit me with this Sofie’s Choice about an hour ago: 8 more years of Wojo or 4 more years of Trump?
Gotta pick one.
No abstaining allowed.
Wow, that's a tough one. Let me think....
8 more years of Wojo doesn't threaten my wife's citizenship. 8 more years of Wojo doesn't threaten the marriage status of friends. 8 more years of Wojo doesn't put my job and industry in jeopardy. 8 more years of Wojo won't implement a health policy that will kill millions of Americans.
I'll take 80 more years of Wojo if that's the choice.
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800 more years of Wojo.
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I reserve the right to change my mind the next time a first-round tournament loss costs tens of thousands of lives.
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Wednesday morning, back to commercials for hemorrhoid cream
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800 more years of Wojo.
Takes 500 to judge.
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What's interesting is that there are Scoopers who say Wojo has condemned MU to mediocrity, that they don't want to hear any excuses in defending him, and that as the leader of the program he has to take full responsibility ... while they also say that Trump is not at all responsible for the carnage taking place in the country - not the COVID-19 deaths, not the job losses, not the economy being in the crapper, not the racial unrest, none of it.
A basketball coach who has made the NCAA tourney 3 of the last 4 years = he's gotta go!
A politician who has the deaths of 230,000+ Americans on his watch and who has stoked the flames of the most fervent racial unrest since the 1960s = 4 more years!
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Almost 240,000 African Americans over the age of 65 have voted in Georgia.
That is 124% of the entire 2016 Senior African American total.
More Hispanic voters have already voted in Georgia than in the entire 2016 election.
https://twitter.com/tbonier/status/1323374653583360006?s=19
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Wednesday morning, back to commercials for hemorrhoid cream
Way, way, way better than the bogus commercials for Trump or Biden!
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Wow, what photos. COVID-19 positive voters vote curbside in St. Louis:
https://twitter.com/kodacohen/status/1323426563271069697?s=19
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Give me a lifetime full of Wojo coaching MU over 3 months more of Trump running any country in the world.
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Wow, that's a tough one. Let me think....
8 more years of Wojo doesn't threaten my wife's citizenship. 8 more years of Wojo doesn't threaten the marriage status of friends. 8 more years of Wojo doesn't put my job and industry in jeopardy. 8 more years of Wojo won't implement a health policy that will kill millions of Americans.
Wow. Trump is running on revoking people’s citizenship, revoking people’s marriage licenses, destroying jobs and committing wholesale genocide. Who knew? What a crock.
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Wow. Trump is running on revoking people’s citizenship, revoking people’s marriage licenses, destroying jobs and committing wholesale genocide. Who knew? What a crock.
He’s more running on scaring snowflakes into imagining how scary of a country we’ll live in by showing video of...things currently happening in the country he is running. Hell of a campaign. But what’s crazy is his followers eat it up.
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Wow. Trump is running on revoking people’s citizenship, revoking people’s marriage licenses, destroying jobs and committing wholesale genocide. Who knew? What a crock.
Nah, he's just trying to induce violence if he loses.
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800 more years of Wojo.
Yep. Not even close.
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Wednesday morning, back to commercials for hemorrhoid cream
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Wednesday morning, back to commercials for hemorrhoid cream
Agreed. I will have a new appreciation for commercials for products that might clear my skin or help me grow hair, but could cause every organ system in my body to fail.
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Wow, that's a tough one. Let me think....
8 more years of Wojo doesn't threaten my wife's citizenship. 8 more years of Wojo doesn't threaten the marriage status of friends. 8 more years of Wojo doesn't put my job and industry in jeopardy. 8 more years of Wojo won't implement a health policy that will kill millions of Americans.
I'll take 80 more years of Wojo if that's the choice.
This.
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Wow. Trump is running on revoking people’s citizenship, revoking people’s marriage licenses, destroying jobs and committing wholesale genocide. Who knew? What a crock.
Revoking birthright citizenship? Yes.
Having Obergfell overturned (a promise made by Justice Stepford), invalidating gay marriages? Yes
Continuing to ignore COVID and implementing herd immunity? Yes (which affects those of us in Higher Ed).
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Nah, he's just trying to induce violence if he loses.
Pak
I think we both know that the reason our cities are boarding up is in case Trump wins, not if he loses.
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Revoking birthright citizenship? Yes.
Having Obergfell overturned (a promise made by Justice Stepford), invalidating gay marriages? Yes
Continuing to ignore COVID and implementing herd immunity? Yes (which affects those of us in Higher Ed).
LOL
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LOL
Glad you can laugh at issues others find important including impacting their family members.
Sign of the times I guess... As long as it doesn’t impact you, who gives a sh*t right?
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Pro trump graffiti on Jewish gravestones in Grand Rapids
https://www.wzzm13.com/mobile/article/news/local/grand-rapids-north/trump-messages-grand-rapids-jewish-cemetery/69-701b2b31-2271-4bde-a09a-2629c5d7e171
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Pak
I think we both know that the reason our cities are boarding up is in case Trump wins, not if he loses.
The left may have a few idiots riot meanwhile the right has militias attempting to commit domestic terrorism and still being labeled patriots. I think the later is worse
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Pak
I think we both know that the reason our cities are boarding up is in case Trump wins, not if he loses.
Cool. That has nothing to do with what I wrote, of course.
Both sides, though, right?
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The left may have a few idiots riot meanwhile the right has militias attempting to commit domestic terrorism and still being labeled patriots. I think the later is worse
No, it's both sides!
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The left may have a few idiots riot meanwhile the right has militias attempting to commit domestic terrorism and still being labeled patriots. I think the later is worse
The left has been rioting in our cities for months. Sure, there are crazies on the right, but how much destruction have they wreaked in Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Chicago, etc., etc., etc.?
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The left has been rioting in our cities for months. Sure, there are crazies on the right, but how much destruction have they wreaked in Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Chicago, etc., etc., etc.?
Why aren’t you crying about the Trump supporters shutting down highways near polling stations?
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Revoking birthright citizenship? Yes.
I don’t like Trump and he’s an idiot but trumpeting this is as ludicrous as conservatives saying Biden will usher in socialism.
He mentioned doing away with it awhile ago , but even he’s not stupid enough to revoke citizenship. Even ending it would never pass and any BS executive order of that nature would get nuked on 14th amendment grounds.
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Why aren’t you crying about the Trump supporters shutting down highways near polling stations?
Because that’s just like shooting cops, looting and burning down businesses, right?
But, but, what about a highway being shut down? Weak sauce whataboutism.
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The left has been rioting in our cities for months. Sure, there are crazies on the right, but how much destruction have they wreaked in Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Chicago, etc., etc., etc.?
None of which has shown the audacity that trying to kidnap a governor has. And need I remind you this is not the first or second crazy right wing organized attack/attempt.
Look if we're both going to compare our dregs of the party i stand with Antifa, a loosely organized at best group of people who are against racism and fascism and bring bats and the like, I also side with a "Marxist organization" because you can't separate the movement and org. A few crazy murders like that lady MU had the brief mural of. And probably some other awful corrupt unions & politicians (apparently not the right ones since it seems the police unions and fire unions are now terrible.)
On your dregs side it's with Proud Boys, Hutaree, Boogaloos, Timothy Mcveigh, some people who have been show to have instigated portions of the riots you bring up, the the guys trying to kidnap a governor, harassing a campaign bus trying to run it off the road, anti maskers, Eric Allport, and a nut job who ran a peaceful protestor over at a rally.
Which is truly a deplorable crowd to be associated with? I personally commend the brave republicans against trump who stay true to moral values and don't find false equivalencies to sleep at night.
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The left has been rioting in our cities for months. Sure, there are crazies on the right, but how much destruction have they wreaked in Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Chicago, etc., etc., etc.?
Why, those crazies are practically harmless!
A new database of nearly 900 politically motivated attacks and plots in the United States since 1994 includes just one attack staged by an anti-fascist that led to fatalities. In that case, the single person killed was the perpetrator.
Over the same time period, American white supremacists and other rightwing extremists have carried out attacks that left at least 329 victims dead, according to the database.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa
White supremacists and other like-minded groups have committed a majority of the terrorist attacks in the United States this year, according to a report by a security think tank that echoed warnings made by the Department of Homeland Security this month.
The report, published Thursday by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, found that white supremacist groups were responsible for 41 of 61 “terrorist plots and attacks” in the first eight months of this year, or 67 percent.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/us/domestic-terrorist-groups.html
The Department of Homeland Security warned on Tuesday that violent white supremacy was the “most persistent and lethal threat in the homeland” in an annual assessment that a former intelligence chief had accused the agency of withholding in deference to President Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/homeland-security-white-supremacists-russia.html
Between 1994 and 2020, there were 893 terrorist attacks and plots in the United States. Overall, right-wing terrorists perpetrated the majority—57 percent—of all attacks and plots during this period, compared to 25 percent committed by left-wing terrorists, 15 percent by religious terrorists, 3 percent by ethnonationalists, and 0.7 percent by terrorists with other motives.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
Seriously, Lenny, it's time to leave the Fox News bubble,. or whatever bubble you've been living in these past 7-8 months. It's warping your brain.
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Because that’s just like shooting cops, looting and burning down businesses, right?
But, but, what about a highway being shut down? Weak sauce whataboutism.
Wait. You mean the stuff that right extremists are on trial for?
Oh.
Also, no whataboutism here. Conservatives cried when people shut down highways in protest for equality in America. Now that they’re shutting down highways to suppress votes it’s all good, apparently.
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Wait. You mean the stuff that right extremists are on trial for?
Oh.
Also, no whataboutism here. Conservatives cried when people shut down highways in protest for equality in America. Now that they’re shutting down highways to suppress votes it’s all good, apparently.
“
Not only did I not “cry“ about peaceful protests, I (and every Conservative I know) supported the protesters rights. When cops started getting attacked or shot, when businesses were burned and looted (and the “peaceful protesters” defended the destruction and looting as “reparations” that were justified) - and we heard crickets from folks like you and the “these are mostly peaceful protests, nothing to see here” media- you lost us.
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99,719,397 people have voted before election day.
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“
Not only did I not “cry“ about peaceful protests, I (and every Conservative I know) supported the protesters rights. When cops started getting attacked or shot, when businesses were burned and looted (and the “peaceful protesters” defended the destruction and looting as “reparations” that were justified) - and we heard crickets from folks like you and the “these are mostly peaceful protests, nothing to see here” media- you lost us.
Yes. They were mainly peaceful protests. They usually turned into looting when the far right extremists showed up. Then murder occurred and we found our new national hero.
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Given the opportunity to condemn terrorists who plotted to kidnap, torture and kill the governor of a U.S. state, the president of the United States instead criticized the intended victim.
I mean, talk about a sentence that perfectly captures what this “law and order” president stands for.
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Right wing extremists are out there killing people - including cops - and Lenny is outraged because a Wendy's got torched and the Apple store got looted.
Interesting priorities.
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Trump supporters have plotted the kidnapping of more than one governor because they have to wear masks, crossed state boarders with an assault rifle where they have wound up murdering two people, intentionally blended in with peaceful protests to start rioting and looting, started parades of pickup trucks that go around surrounding people with BLM signs on their car or buses that have Biden Harris signs on them, but thank god we only have to worry about unrest if Sleepy Joe loses. MAGAs aren’t violent in the least bit.
Oh and just about every one of these situations has come with (at least) a Tweet of support from 45. Excellent. No way there will be unrest from MAGAs if 45 doesn’t win. The inclusive, welcoming, friendly group of folks will clap for Joe Biden’s well deserved win as 45 gracefully steps down, I have no doubt about it now.
Thanks for putting my mind at ease Lenny.
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The left has been rioting in our cities for months. Sure, there are crazies on the right, but how much destruction have they wreaked in Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Chicago, etc., etc., etc.?
Like the looting and destruction of the precinct in Minnesota, and many of the businesses, that were later proven to be caused by right-wing extremists trying to create violence and terror.
Or Proud Boys and Boogaloo going to Portland, and Seattle to instigate violence and cause destruction?
If you think places are boarded up just because of people on the left, you are not seeing the big picture.
And remember, only one presidential candidate told militant right-wing groups to stand by, and has touted the fact that there will be violence if they count all the votes and deprive him of his election.
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And remember, only one presidential candidate told militant right-wing groups to stand by, and has touted the fact that there will be violence if they count all the votes and deprive him of his election.
And remember, only one presidential candidate said he opposed violence and looting by everybody, and challenged the other to do the same ... and the other wouldn't do it.
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Like the looting and destruction of the precinct in Minnesota, and many of the businesses, that were later proven to be caused by right-wing extremists trying to create violence and terror.
Yep.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd
https://m.startribune.com/charges-boogaloo-bois-fired-on-mpls-precinct-shouted-justice-for-floyd/572843802/
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Right wing extremists are out there killing people - including cops - and Lenny is outraged because a Wendy's got torched and the Apple store got looted.
Interesting priorities.
Left wing extremists:”what do we want? Dead cops! When do we want ‘em? Now!” Cops ambushed, cops shot in their squad cars, etc. - lots of “Missions accomplished!”
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Left wing extremists:”what do we want? Dead cops! When do we want ‘em? Now!” Cops ambushed, cops shot in their squad cars, etc. - lots of “Missions accomplished!”
What you describe, Tony ... I wish folks wouldn't riot or loot, because I believe it is usually counterproductive to their own cause.
However ...
One problem is that every time there is any violence anywhere, some folks immediately scream about left-wing radicals, antifa, BLM, "anarchists," etc. They never even CONSIDER that it could be right-wing agitators. And certainly their leader -- whose job description is that he is supposed to be the president for ALL Americans -- does not consider it.
Even after the police or FBI or other law enforcement confirm something has been done by right-wing terrorists, those folks don't want to believe it and continue to push that all violence in all cities is being done by leftists or Marxists or "thugs" (to use a racist code word).
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Left wing extremists:”what do we want? Dead cops! When do we want ‘em? Now!” Cops ambushed, cops shot in their squad cars, etc. - lots of “Missions accomplished!”
You're more concerned about left extremists who talk about dead cops than right wing extremists who actually kill cops.
Like I said, interesting priorities.
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Left wing extremists:”what do we want? Dead cops! When do we want ‘em? Now!” Cops ambushed, cops shot in their squad cars, etc. - lots of “Missions accomplished!”
The chant you are referring to refers to a chant by 15 people in 2014, that was disavowed by everyone, on all sides.
Boogaloo has been gunning down police officers this year, with the admitted goal of trying to blame it on BLM and left-wing protesters.
I'm not saying there isn't left-wing violence.
Just indicating that if you are not aware of the massive problem of right-wing extremism, that the FBI and intelligence agencies saying is the number 1 cause of domestic violence and extremism/terror.
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Thanks for putting my mind at ease Lenny.
You’re welcome.
As you (and all other Scoopers) know, I am not in any way, shape or form a Trump supporter. But I am an avowed capitalist who leans right on most issues. As “non political” Scoop has become uber political and devolved into a mostly left wing echo chamber, those sort of ideas are decidedly unwelcome here. I’ll get out of the way (as many others have generally done) so that Scoop can get one step closer to becoming MSNBC North. Not quite the “Duke North” that you promised, but whatever.
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You’re welcome.
As you (and all other Scoopers) know, I am not in any way, shape or form a Trump supporter. But I am an avowed capitalist who leans right on most issues. As “non political” Scoop has become uber political and devolved into a mostly left wing echo chamber, those sort of ideas are decidedly unwelcome here. I’ll get out of the way (as many others have generally done) so that Scoop can get one step closer to becoming MSNBC North. Not quite the “Duke North” that you promised, but whatever.
Lenny, just for the record. I was not trying to attack you for your statements. Just presenting other evidence, that you may or may not been aware of.
I hope you don't "get out of the way". I think people speaking their mind is important and helpful.
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It would be a shame if Lenny or any other Scooper left simply because he was presented with the facts. And it’s a shame when simply stating the facts is viewed as “political.“
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Lenny can come and go as he pleases, but I hope he sticks around.
At least long enough to explain what pointing out the violence of right wing extremists has to do with capitalism and MSNBC.
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Left wing extremists:”what do we want? Dead cops! When do we want ‘em? Now!” Cops ambushed, cops shot in their squad cars, etc. - lots of “Missions accomplished!”
Lenny, living in Portland, having seen my wife’s office building badly vandalized Saturday night by Antifa groups during their “capitalism is scary” riot, and being honestly worried about violence from left wing groups tomorrow night, understand that these people are extremist anarchists. They do not support Joe Biden nor the Democratic Party. They are radicals. However, the white supremacy groups and the militias are not only open and proud Trump supporters, but Trump openly encourages them.
It’s not binary. Those of us left of center can condemn all violent groups, not lower ourselves to “yeah, but they did this” to defend one side.
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I’m pretty sure they are boarding up buildings because of extremists and not those sincerely interested in the political or governance process. It’s profoundly sad that this is occurring in America and that the leader of the country is encouraging some and confronting other fringe groups with selfish intent and not for the good of us all.
The fact that ‘all sides’ are trying to put these people on a team is even sadder. I hope everyone stays safe today if you still have to exercise your right to vote.
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Cliven Bundy.
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Revoking birthright citizenship? Yes.
Having Obergfell overturned (a promise made by Justice Stepford), invalidating gay marriages? Yes
Continuing to ignore COVID and implementing herd immunity? Yes (which affects those of us in Higher Ed).
Where did she promise she would overturn this? She has always stated she will not bring her personal beliefs into her decisions. And BTW, your Justice Stepford is not original, and crap like that is what keeps people divided.
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You’re welcome.
As you (and all other Scoopers) know, I am not in any way, shape or form a Trump supporter. But I am an avowed capitalist who leans right on most issues. As “non political” Scoop has become uber political and devolved into a mostly left wing echo chamber, those sort of ideas are decidedly unwelcome here. I’ll get out of the way (as many others have generally done) so that Scoop can get one step closer to becoming MSNBC North. Not quite the “Duke North” that you promised, but whatever.
Aka I’ll claim only the left incites violence in this country, then when court cases are brought up show it’s actually the extreme right causing violence and destruction I’ll talk about a chant (oh no!) and take my ball and go home, rather than reflecting on what’s really happening in America because it challenges the views I’ve always held that have always benefitted me.
Not your fault. Everyone else’s for being an echo chamber.
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100,000,000 voters have voted, 73% of the 137.1 million voters of 2016.
https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1323594659717914631?s=19
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If you know anyone in these 20 states not registered to vote, they can get registered today and vote today:
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Iowa
Maine
Maryland
Michigan
Minnesota
Montana
Nevada
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Utah
Vermont
Washington
Wisconsin
Wyoming
and soon to be a state, Washington D.C.
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Wishing everyone a safe voting experience today left or right
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If you know anyone in these 20 states not registered to vote, they can get registered today and vote today:
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Iowa
Maine
Maryland
Michigan
Minnesota
Montana
Nevada
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Utah
Vermont
Washington
Wisconsin
Wyoming
and soon to be a state, Washington D.C.
Good list. I would also point out that eligible voters don't need to register to vote in North Dakota; they simply need to show up at the polls with a legal form of identification.
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On an individual state basis, more than 100% of the total voters from 2016 have already voted early/absentee in three states: Texas, Montana and Washington state. And more than 90% have already voted in another eight states: Oregon, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Georgia, North Carolina and Florida.
Wherever you are, if you're eligible and haven't voted yet, get out there today!
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So, generally speaking, why do states or local governments try to create barriers to voting? Don't we want as many people as possible voting? Don't we want to make the process easy?
As long as everything is legal, of course.
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So, generally speaking, why do states or local governments try to create barriers to voting? Don't we want as many people as possible voting? Don't we want to make the process easy?
As long as everything is legal, of course.
Because higher voter turnout tends to favor one party. It’s like gerrymandering for voting. It’s the Wisconsin creed.
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Because higher voter turnout tends to favor one party. It’s like gerrymandering for voting. It’s the Wisconsin creed.
It's also why, laughably, there is still an Electoral College.
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It's also why, laughably, there is still an Electoral College.
Nothing laughable about the Electoral College. Without it, California, New York, and Chicago would decide the elections and the great "flyover states" would become disenfranchised.
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Nothing laughable about the Electoral College. Without it, California, New York, and Chicago would decide the elections and the great "flyover states" would become disenfranchised.
I don't think you know what "disenfranchised" means.
Under the current system, some citizens' votes are more valuable than others.
Without the EC, all votes would count the same.
So, which method is really disenfranchising voters?
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“
Not only did I not “cry“ about peaceful protests, I (and every Conservative I know) supported the protesters rights. When cops started getting attacked or shot, when businesses were burned and looted (and the “peaceful protesters” defended the destruction and looting as “reparations” that were justified) - and we heard crickets from folks like you and the “these are mostly peaceful protests, nothing to see here” media- you lost us.
No no, you were lost a long time ago, old man.
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But, but antifa...
@gwupoe: Exclusive: This morning, FBI arrested Timothy Watson, a purported boogaloo member for selling “portable wall hangers” which can be converted to make a gun automatic. According to docs, he has sold to a number of Boogaloo members including one who shot and killed law enforcement
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It's also why, laughably, there is still an Electoral College.
I mean... It's laughable if you want the us to forget about everyone but coastal states.
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Nothing laughable about the Electoral College. Without it, California, New York, and Chicago would decide the elections and the great "flyover states" would become disenfranchised.
The Electoral College is a good thing if you think the value an individual's vote should be affected by where he or she lives.
I would prefer that each individual's vote count equally, but I know others disagree.
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Nothing laughable about the Electoral College. Without it, California, New York, and Chicago would decide the elections and the great "flyover states" would become disenfranchised.
So everyone's vote would count equally and the winner of the election would be the one that got the most votes?
That does sound horrible.
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Interesting day the market is having so far.
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I mean... It's laughable if you want the us to forget about everyone but coastal states.
How is counting everyone equally "forgetting" about anyone?
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Personally I have lived in states where the winner take all nature of the electoral college has made me feel equally disenfranchised (because of insurmountable majority by a party on both ends of the spectrum). It's our system, but it's not ridiculous to challenge it and it had nothing to do with living on a coast.
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You know I knew this already, but I don't think I've ever put together how astonishing this is. Democrats have won the popular vote in 6 out of the last 7 elections but have only won the presidency in 4 out of the last 7 elections.
I wonder what would happen if the tables were turned?
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I mean... It's laughable if you want the us to forget about everyone but coastal states.
Residents of Texas, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Arizona, etc., would still get to vote, I believe. Plus, the Senate would still give inordinate power to small states.
And, of course, all coastal states share a hive mind. California is just like Georgia. Oregon is exactly like New Jersey. Florida and Washington couldn't be more alike.
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Nothing laughable about the Electoral College. Without it, California, New York, and Chicago would decide the elections and the great "flyover states" would become disenfranchised.
This statement always bothers me greatly. As I've never once thought or heard this nor seen anyone else or read anywhere on "the coast" utter anything remotely similar. It some center of the USA population disinformation statement that is no where near correct.
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Nothing laughable about the Electoral College. Without it, California, New York, and Chicago would decide the elections and the great "flyover states" would become disenfranchised.
Why should a vote count more in flyover states (Illinois is a flyover state btw) than elsewhere? Spoiler alert it shouldn't.
4.5 million California votes in 2016 for Trump.
Almost 3 million in NY in 2016 for Trump.
Wisconsin had 1.4 million votes for DT.
So those far less Trump Wisconsin votes should count more than some other places elsewhere? Why? Isn't each person entitled to equal opportunity and representation regardless of their geography? People vote, not land.
One person, one vote.
We don't use the Electoral College system to decide state and other races. It isn't used in other countries.
This has the feel of Stick to sports when someone disagrees with someone's opinion on a non sports topic.
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Personally I have lived in states where the winner take all nature of the electoral college has made me feel equally disenfranchised. It's our system, but it's not ridiculous to challenge it and it had nothing to do with living on a coast.
This. During my lifetime I have lived in three traditional battleground states (Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota), one Democratic stronghold (Washington), and two traditional Republican strongholds (Utah and Texas). Personally, I always vote, but when I lived in the strongholds, I knew many people whose political views were opposite the state they lived in who never bother to vote because they feel like their vote is worthless. Its an unintended consequence of the electoral college.
My bold prediction is that within the next 20 years, Texas is going to become a democratic stronghold. The rural areas here are dying and the major cities are some of the fastest growing in the country. The rate of immigration and transplants from other states far exceeds the birth rate of native Texans. If that does happen, Democrats will start every election with close to 200 electoral votes in the bag. At that point, I think we will see some major changes to the current party systems.
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This statement always bothers me greatly. As I've never once thought or heard this nor seen anyone else or read anywhere on "the coast" utter anything remotely similar. It some center of the USA population disinformation statement that is no where near correct.
Jonah Goldberg had a good line in a column I linked earlier in the thread:
Real America is “flyover country,” a term used more by those who resent it than by those who actually use it as a term of derision. In today’s Republican mythology, New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and San Francisco and other major cities are home to the elites — or, if you include the shores of Lake Michigan, the even more hated “coastal elites.”
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A voter in Vermont has 3.67 times more Electoral power than a voter in Texas.
A voter in Wyoming has 3.72 times more Electoral power than a voter in California.
Time to end a process that is more outdated than a rotary landline.
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Many of those who argue for the Electoral College and against a popular-vote system that would have each vote count the exact same also argue for a flat income tax because "everybody should be taxed the same rate."
I think we have reached the point where the Electoral College has outlived its usefulness. Every 4 years, it gives a relatively small percentage of the population an out-of-proportion say in who the president will be. If it favored Democrats, Republicans would be crying every cycle about how "rigged" it is, and they would do everything in their power to change it.
Having said all that ...
The Electoral College IS the way we choose our president. So I have never been one to say something like, "Trump actually lost in 2016" or "Bush actually lost in 2000." They won what they had to win. They won using the method in place to determine a winner. They campaigned the way they needed to in order to win using the rules as they existed.
Of course, I do remember that in 2012, it looked for a little while like Obama might win the Electoral College while losing the popular vote, and the folks on Fox News talked about it as if Obama had just spread anthrax on the entire American population, but that's neither here nor there.
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Nothing laughable about the Electoral College. Without it, California, New York, and Chicago would decide the elections and the great "flyover states" would become disenfranchised.
This old trope is patently false. People always argue "politicians will ignore X, Y, and Z" if we eliminate the Electoral College, but there's no actual cogent argument for it. If that was the case, why would Trump or Biden go to anywhere but the largest cities in the states that matter? They go all over the states they prioritize.
Further, in this calendar year, Donald Trump has only visited 27 states. In the past two months, it's just 19 states. So the idea that other communities are ignored or disenfranchised is already a reality. 23 states received no presidential visit and 31 received none in the last two months of the so-called "most important election of our lifetimes."
Of his 162 visits, nearly half (80) went to just 5 states. So don't pretend the Electoral College doesn't already disenfranchise the vast majority of voters. It does by making some votes more important than others. It's a bald-faced lie designed to entrench minority rule in this country and to lessen the power of votes in large population states.
Feel free to check any of the math yourself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidential_trips_made_by_Donald_Trump_(2020)
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This. During my lifetime I have lived in three traditional battleground states (Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota), one Democratic stronghold (Washington), and two traditional Republican strongholds (Utah and Texas). Personally, I always vote, but when I lived in the strongholds, I knew many people whose political views were opposite the state they lived in who never bother to vote because they feel like their vote is worthless. Its an unintended consequence of the electoral college.
My bold prediction is that within the next 20 years, Texas is going to become a democratic stronghold. The rural areas here are dying and the major cities are some of the fastest growing in the country. The rate of immigration and transplants from other states far exceeds the birth rate of native Texans. If that does happen, Democrats will start every election with close to 200 electoral votes in the bag. At that point, I think we will see some major changes to the current party systems.
Georgia and North Carolina are on a similar path.
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This. During my lifetime I have lived in three traditional battleground states (Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota), one Democratic stronghold (Washington), and two traditional Republican strongholds (Utah and Texas). Personally, I always vote, but when I lived in the strongholds, I knew many people whose political views were opposite the state they lived in who never bother to vote because they feel like their vote is worthless. Its an unintended consequence of the electoral college.
This is what i was getting at. I actually don't care about the electoral college as much as the fact it should be applied proportionately (proportionately by state would be fine) vs. winner take all.
If Wyoming or RI gets some extra juice because we still like the idea of the importance of states, fine. The bigger issue is your vote doesn't really matter for president much of the time unless you live in a handful of states.
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You know I knew this already, but I don't think I've ever put together how astonishing this is. Democrats have won the popular vote in 6 out of the last 7 elections but have only won the presidency in 4 out of the last 7 elections.
I wonder what would happen if the tables were turned?
If Biden wins the popular vote, it would mark four straight years that the same party won the popular vote. I believe that either ties or breaks the record. It would also mark 7/8 elections where the same party won the popular vote, which I am certain is a record.
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My bold prediction is that within the next 20 years, Texas is going to become a democratic stronghold. The rural areas here are dying and the major cities are some of the fastest growing in the country. The rate of immigration and transplants from other states far exceeds the birth rate of native Texans. If that does happen, Democrats will start every election with close to 200 electoral votes in the bag. At that point, I think we will see some major changes to the current party systems.
It's not that bold a prediction, TAMU. It's simply happening, it's plain ol' math, and it will make it impossible for the Republicans to win the presidency. Impossible.
Then we'll see how many of the folks who are arguing in favor of the Electoral College now will be changing their tune.
"It's unfair how the leftists are using an outdated system to steal this election! It's rigged!"
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DC Federal Judge Emmet Sullivan USPS ruling:
https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1322245662705094667?s=19
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FBI investigating robocalls falsely telling people they can vote tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/ericgeller/status/1323682887502303236?s=19
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Jonah Goldberg had a good line in a column I linked earlier in the thread:
Real America is “flyover country,” a term used more by those who resent it than by those who actually use it as a term of derision. In today’s Republican mythology, New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and San Francisco and other major cities are home to the elites — or, if you include the shores of Lake Michigan, the even more hated “coastal elites.”
I'm sorry I missed that quote. Spot on.
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Milwaukee turnout:
https://twitter.com/AsteadWesley/status/1323690337152454662?s=19
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This. During my lifetime I have lived in three traditional battleground states (Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota), one Democratic stronghold (Washington), and two traditional Republican strongholds (Utah and Texas). Personally, I always vote, but when I lived in the strongholds, I knew many people whose political views were opposite the state they lived in who never bother to vote because they feel like their vote is worthless. Its an unintended consequence of the electoral college.
My bold prediction is that within the next 20 years, Texas is going to become a democratic stronghold. The rural areas here are dying and the major cities are some of the fastest growing in the country. The rate of immigration and transplants from other states far exceeds the birth rate of native Texans. If that does happen, Democrats will start every election with close to 200 electoral votes in the bag. At that point, I think we will see some major changes to the current party systems.
TAMU - It may even be as soon as this year. FWIW, Charlie Cook predicted Texas for Biden last night in his final pre-election crystal ball. Georgia & North Carolina headed the same direction as shoothoops said. (Florida will always be Florida.) When it happens it's game over for Republicans and they won't have the electoral college to save them anymore.
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If traditionally republican strongholds are leaking Democrat (GA, TX, AZ) then are any Democrat strongholds turning GOP?
Or is this a population trend? If so, I'd imagine GOP will try to suppress lots of local Dem votes or agree to a system change.
Lastly, I'd also argue the highest ranking Dems today - the more corporatist, neoliberal pols - are more 80s/90s moderate GOP in their policy platforms than actual left Dems. Which, IMO, is sad. But also makes them more palatable for TX, GA, AZ, etc conservative voters.
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For those saying the electoral college is good.
What happens when Biden gets over 50% of the popular vote. Wins the popular vote by 6-10M votes, and loses the election?
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For those saying the electoral college is good.
What happens when Biden gets over 50% of the popular vote. Wins the popular vote by 6-10M votes, and loses the election?
I think most of those saying the Electoral College is good would think Biden losing in that scenario is just peachy.
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For those saying the electoral college is good.
What happens when Biden gets over 50% of the popular vote. Wins the popular vote by 6-10M votes, and loses the election?
Sometime ago I saw a chart that laid-out percentage win vs. popular vote.
I seem to recall a 6-10M vote spread meant you were winning the electoral college also.
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Sometime ago I saw a chart that laid-out percentage win vs. popular vote.
I seem to recall a 6-10M vote spread meant you were winning the electoral college also.
I feel like I saw that too...but that's just a projection based on state by state polling and then extension of that to the Electoral College. We've seen before how wrong polls can be, so I would take any such projection with a grain of salt.
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Sometime ago I saw a chart that laid-out percentage win vs. popular vote.
I seem to recall a 6-10M vote spread meant you were winning the electoral college also.
I think normally that would be the case. But if projected turnout is as high as some people are saying, you might see Biden really run up numbers in states he wins, and then lose close elections in TX, Georgia, Florida, NC, and Pennsylvania.
The close margins, especially in places like TX, could allow him to easily double Clinton's margin of 3M votes, and then some.
Especially if reports of places like Milwaukee hitting 80-90% voter turnout.
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Results coming in
(https://meme-generator.com/wp-content/uploads/mememe/2020/03/mememe_6237bb7da6df53bc523c92c05944bcac-1.jpg)
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De Joy ignores court order, gives big middle finger to law. I mean, why not cheat when you are never held accountable?
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1323761876870705152
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De Joy ignores court order, gives big middle finger to law. I mean, why not cheat when you are never held accountable?
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1323761876870705152
Scott MacFarlane
@MacFarlaneNews
BREAKING: DC federal judge agrees to give US Postal Service more time to sweep for possible missing ballots in mail processing centers in Pennsylvania, Colorado, Michigan, etc. USPS said it couldn't complete sweeps by 3pm, as ordered
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Annnnd here we go ...
Armed Trump supporter told to leave NC voting site. He was arrested when he came back.
(https://www.charlotteobserver.com/latest-news/rj7o5/picture246927817/alternates/FREE_768/CLT_VOTING_ARREST_01%20(1).JPG)
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article246933672.html?ac_cid=DM315602&ac_bid=-1551549309
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Trump is down to -110 in the offshores, Biden from -210 to now -120. Exchanges have Biden as a 40 cent favorite, down from about 90 cents an hour ago.
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Trump is down to -110 in the offshores, Biden from -210 to now -120. Exchanges have Biden as a 40 cent favorite, down from about 90 cents an hour ago.
Because these returns are not good for Biden.
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Because these returns are not good for Biden.
If - and it's definitely an if - Ohio and North Carolina stay where they are, these returns are actually quite good for Biden. He'll trade those two for Florida 100 times out of 100.
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For the first time, Trump now betting favorite at the offshores and has a 40 cent lead in the exchanges.
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For the first time, Trump now betting favorite at the offshores and has a 40 cent lead in the exchanges.
Ya. This looks like a Trump win
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For the first time, Trump now betting favorite at the offshores and has a 40 cent lead in the exchanges.
People must be dumping cash on Trump the way that line is moving.
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Trump has gotten to as high as -900 in last 20 minutes. Exchanges have Trump at $3 over Biden (which for perspective is like the Globetrotters vs Generals).
I did not think the result would be convincing so early (for either side). I think Nate Silver needs to find a different job too.
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Pollsters are starting to look like the political equivalent to meteorologists.
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AZ's interesting. VA's disappointing. Not expecting anything by midnight
Fox: 129 Biden 109 Trump
Huffington Post: 131 Biden 98 Trump
Politico: 131 Biden 99 Trump
CNN: 94 Biden 72 Trump
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Republicans: Keep politics and sports separate
Also Republicans: Let's elect a mediocre college football coach to the U.S. Senate
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Trump has gotten to as high as -900 in last 20 minutes. Exchanges have Trump at $3 over Biden (which for perspective is like the Globetrotters vs Generals).
I did not think the result would be convincing so early (for either side). I think Nate Silver needs to find a different job too.
Not just Silver. But the dozens of polls that consistently under-estimate Trump’s support. Just like four years ago.
I don’t think this is over but it clearly won’t project the way most polls were saying.
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The polling needs to serious reform. So many states well past the margin of error two elections in a row. This looks like an easy trump win or a narrow biden win. lol so many metrics had biden winning 350 lol..
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The polling needs to serious reform. So many states well past the margin of error two elections in a row. This looks like an easy trump win or a narrow biden win. lol so many metrics had biden winning 350 lol..
This. I do think NC and WI are too early but Ohio Florida Texas etc etc were clearly wayyy off.
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Except for guru’s guy. 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
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Funniest tweet I saw tonight...
“He’s named Nate Silver because all his picks come in second place.”
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Republicans: Keep politics and sports separate
Also Republicans: Let's elect a mediocre college football coach to the U.S. Senate
Tuberville got elected not to Congress, but the damn Senate. One of 100 Senators was coaching football less than 5 years ago. Also crazy that it was in Alabama. He’s not from there, has no roots there, literally only spent his time at Auburn there. I could kind of see it as the Bama coach, but no, an Auburn coach who only had 1 great season. Just incredible
Funniest tweet I saw tonight...
“He’s named Nate Silver because all his picks come in second place.”
I saw tweets calling him Nate Aluminum and Nate Tin which made me laugh
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The Tubberville win is just absurd. I don’t care D or R, him winning a Senate (!!!) seat is crazy.
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The Tubberville win is just absurd. I don’t care D or R, him winning a Senate (!!!) seat is crazy.
I get that it's Alabama, which nearly sent a sexual predator to the Senate two years ago just because he had an 'R' next to his name. But still, tonight they chose a football coach over a man who prosecuted the Klan and other domestic terrorists.
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I get that it's Alabama, which nearly sent a sexual predator to the Senate two years ago just because he had an 'R' next to his name. But still, tonight they chose a football coach over a man who prosecuted the Klan and other domestic terrorists.
Well it's Alabama and he prosecuted the clan... to quote my favorite Alabaman "that's all I have to say about that"
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Lots of results will be in tomorrow, WI, MI, PA are going to be the deciders.
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The Illinois Fair Tax proposal does not pass.
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Lots of results will be in tomorrow, WI, MI, PA are going to be the deciders.
Is there actually a chance of the mail in votes making a big enough difference to give Trump any of those states?
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Is there actually a chance of the mail in votes making a big enough difference to give Trump any of those states?
Trump or Biden?
There are more than 500k uncounted mail-in ballots from Philly and Pittsburgh alone, so yeah, they're a long way from done in Pennsylvania.
Edit: 2.2 million mail-in ballots left to be counted in Pennsylvania.
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MI and Penn are essentially who knows with tons of mail in votes left to be counted. 77% in WI with 4pt plus trump lead. idk if there more mail in votes to be counted there or not. Hard to bleleive he wins WI by 4 plus
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MI and Penn are essentially who knows with tons of mail in votes left to be counted. 77% in WI with 4pt plus trump lead. idk if there more mail in votes to be counted there or not. Hard to bleleive he wins WI by 4 plus
Milwaukee county has barely started counting.
This election might end up being decided in the courts. Fighting over counting mail in ballots in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.
Regardless, the electoral college will again be decided by probably something like 100,000 total votes again. With possibly the loser having over 50% of the overall vote and 4-8M vote margin.
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Milwaukee county has barely started counting.
This election might end up being decided in the courts. Fighting over counting mail in ballots in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.
Regardless, the electoral college will again be decided by probably something like 100,000 total votes again. With possibly the loser having over 50% of the overall vote and 4-8M vote margin.
yeah wonderfull. Shi t storm
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Is there actually a chance of the mail in votes making a big enough difference to give Trump any of those states?
Yes, easily. Go to any electoral map online and see which counties are still counting. Plus there are plenty that have stopped counting for the night, and will resume tomorrow.
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Fox: Milwaukee county 99% reported
NY Times: Milwaukee county 41% reported
Same current numbers listed. Weird
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ap says 90 %
4 point trump lead. its a comfortable trump win unless mke county is like the last stuff count. polls way off on wisco. i see multple apparently credible metrics that gave biden a 95 % chance to win wisco and trump wins easily. polling sucks.
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The Hispanic/latino vote was kind of shocking
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Biden back to a heavy favorite on the betting sites.
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It looks like Biden is going to carry Nevada and Wisconsin (though I think we can expect recounts in both). It also looks like Trump will likely carry North Carolina and Georgia (though a higher than average blue shift with the last 5% could change both or either).
Assuming the above paragraph is correct. It's down to Michigan and Pennsylvania. Biden wins either, that's all she wrote. Trump leads in both but I expect significant blue shift in both states as absentee votes are counted....and his lead in Michigan is down to .3%.
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Sure looks like Biden at this point - WI, MI, PA. Even now the favorite on betting sites.
Barring a court decision from Trump, of course
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The Hispanic/latino vote was kind of shocking
Yeah, apparently the ads in South Florida making Biden/Harris seem the second coming of Castro/Guevara were effective.
Credit the Trump campaign. They aren't dummies.
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Yeah, apparently the ads in South Florida making Biden/Harris seem the second coming of Castro/Guevara were effective.
Credit the Trump campaign. They aren't dummies.
Doesn't quite explain other states like Ohio though
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The Hispanic/latino vote was kind of shocking
I actually don't think it's that shocking. As I mentioned earlier, the "family values" of many in that community line up pretty solid with Republicans. And immigration was nowhere near part of the national conversation on this election.
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I actually don't think it's that shocking. As I mentioned earlier, the "family values" of many in that community line up pretty solid with Republicans. And immigration was nowhere near part of the national conversation on this election.
So the immigration discussion in the last election is why Hillary won such a greater percentage?
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My observations from working the polls - in a ward that went about 60% Democratic.
**Very little "election gear" at all. I saw one MAGA hat and about three BLM shirts.
**Almost everyone was polite, if not just downright nice. No arguments. No one over-the-top. Very respectful.
**No guns. No militias. No one blocking access to the polls.
**It's very hard for people who move a lot to prove where they live.
**A significant portion of the population has no idea how to fill out a ballot. It was enlightening.
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So the immigration discussion in the last election is why Hillary won such a greater percentage?
That is what I am thinking. But WTF do I know.
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Pipe burst at the largest county in GA that happened to be a super polling place? Why does such weird stuff happen in this country for elections?
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The Hispanic vote is plural not singular. It is very diverse, and many different types of Hispanics in many different types of geographies vote differently for different reasons.
Biden was more successful in the Southwest, Nevada, Arizona, than some of the others, such as Cuban/Venezuelan parts of Florida. Even in Florida, that will differ with more Puerto Rican Orlando etc...
The first thing to know and understand about Hispanic voters is that it is a diverse group of many types of voters.
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So the immigration discussion in the last election is why Hillary won such a greater percentage?
If I'm not mistaken, Hillary lost Latino support as well, compared to 2012.
Fluffy hit the nail on the head about Latinos being more socially conservative than many groups.
I think another factor is that Latino men have a lot in common with Trump's base - white men without college degrees - and what appeals to them about Trump is largely the same.
That said, Biden is still going to win 60-65 percent of the Latino vote, it seems, in most places outside South Florida.
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The Hispanic vote is plural not singular. It is very diverse, and many different types of Hispanics in many different types of geographies vote differently for different reasons.
Biden was more successful in the Southwest, Nevada, Arizona, than some of the others, such as Cuban/Venezuelan parts of Florida. Even in Florida, that will differ with more Puerto Rican Orlando etc...
The first thing to know and understand about Hispanic voters is that it is a diverse group of many types of voters.
This exactly. My MIL was complaining about the Latino vote in Florida and started talking about Trump's comments on Mexicans. I had to explain that Mexicans and the Cubans in Miami-Dade are vastly different with different values and voting priorities.
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This exactly. My MIL was complaining about the Latino vote in Florida and started talking about Trump's comments on Mexicans. I had to explain that Mexicans and the Cubans in Miami-Dade are vastly different with different values and voting priorities.
Yep, and I would add that many people, including, those running for office, don't have a good enough grasp of the differences and complexities within the wide variances of Hispanic voting. It is very complex and nuanced and not simplistic. Who was talking about Evangelical Cubans in the past? etc...
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Short Bernie Sanders clip where he predicts the possible election outcome long before election night.
https://twitter.com/hannahhycho/status/1323851835199811587?s=19
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Well, regardless if Biden pulls this out or not, I will say that guru was more right than most pollsters were about the turnout and what that would mean. A better handling of the pandemic and Trump wins this in a landslide.
And if Biden loses, the Democrats need to understand why Obama and Trump were two time winners, and why their last two candidates were uninspired.
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Well, regardless if Biden pulls this out or not, I will say that guru was more right than most pollsters were about the turnout and what that would mean. A better handling of the pandemic and Trump wins this in a landslide.
And if Biden loses, the Democrats need to understand why Obama and Trump were two time winners, and why their last two candidates were uninspired.
This. Unfortunately the most inspiring are also probably too far left to have a legitimate shot right now
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Well, regardless if Biden pulls this out or not, I will say that guru was more right than most pollsters were about the turnout and what that would mean. A better handling of the pandemic and Trump wins this in a landslide.
And if Biden loses, the Democrats need to understand why Obama and Trump were two time winners, and why their last two candidates were uninspired.
We'll wait for all votes to be counted. But it would appear Biden will win, and, it's possible that number could get well into the 300's in the Electoral College.
I don't think one can say so simply that DT would have won in a landslide if not for the Pandemic. While the President and his administration's handling of the Pandemic has been an abomination, yes, I believe if we have learned one thing, it is that people vote for a wide variety of reasons.
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We'll wait for all votes to be counted. But it would appear Biden will win, and, it's possible that number could get well into the 300's in the Electoral College.
I don't think one can say so simply that DT would have won in a landslide if not for the Pandemic. While the President and his administration's handling of the Pandemic has been an abomination, yes, I believe if we have learned one thing, it is that people vote for a wide variety of reasons.
300s? I'm just hoping he edges things out in NV WI and MI to get to 270
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300s? I'm just hoping he edges things out in NV WI and MI to get to 270
Based on what's left, those three look solidly to be in Biden's camp. Not huge margins, but remaining votes are in urban centers.
He'll hit 270 and have a solid popular vote margin (5-7M) but it won't be the electoral landslide that looked possible, even if Georgia & Pennsylvania tip blue.
Regardless, seems unlikely the Senate will be aligned with Biden.
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What are you all using to track right now?
I've got cnn, Fox, and Huff post open. CNN seems like it's lagging. Fox seems to be most up to date with votes but if I can avoid using it I will.
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300s? I'm just hoping he edges things out in NV WI and MI to get to 270
290 seems possible, if early and mail ballots on PA trend the way they have so far.
300+ would take extraordinary numbers in the Atlanta suburbs, which is improbable.
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300s? I'm just hoping he edges things out in NV WI and MI to get to 270
I didn't say he would, but I said it is possible with NC and GA in play. Many of the Fulton County outstanding votes are expected to be heavy Biden for example. (JB needs 100k+ to win) NC allows mail in ballots post marked day of election. (JB needs 76k+)
I also should have added that Biden will win the popular vote by millions more than Hillary Clinton did four years ago.
And yes, under the current system 270 on the nose is all that matters and is all that is needed for someone to win.
Pennsylvania for example allows people to post mark their ballots on election day. 1.4 million votes are outstanding. Thus far 71% of those have been for Biden.
It will take several days and all of the votes will get counted.
I chose my clarifying words carefully, such as "possible" here or "likely" there etc...
We'll see. I will say that many polls and models have been off and incorrect while some others have been more accurate. It's important for people to identify the specifics of those things as opposed to broad statements. All models, all polls is too strong.
I believe that 65% of voters voted. That's more than the 62% of 2008. 1963 was 63%. So it's a historically high turnout.
It's fair to say that DT has had a consistent 40 plus percent approval rating popularity. Not better or worse, amazingly consistent. It's fair to say millions and millions of people voted for him twice. I don't discount any of that.
Republicans wouldn't allow mailed ballots to be counted as they came in this past month in some of the outstanding states to be counted. There really isn't any positive/productive reason to do that.
So we count all of the votes.
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Well none of what happens today matters if the Dem's don't pull off the Senate. Without the Senate, Biden is hamstrung with a tanked economy, covid, and general unrest. Without the senate he can't fix any of this, and the Dems will get rolled in 2022 and 2024 could be a total blowout.
Lose by winning.
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Will trump give up the presidency now? The next couple months should be fun.
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Well none of what happens today matters if the Dem's don't pull off the Senate. Without the Senate, Biden is hamstrung with a tanked economy, covid, and general unrest. Without the senate he can't fix any of this, and the Dems will get rolled in 2022 and 2024 could be a total blowout.
Lose by winning.
As long as they don't put someone in the same vein as Trump, I'll take the trade of avoiding 4 more years of Trump for losing the White House in 2024.
But I don't think it will play out as above.
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Well none of what happens today matters if the Dem's don't pull off the Senate. Without the Senate, Biden is hamstrung with a tanked economy, covid, and general unrest. Without the senate he can't fix any of this, and the Dems will get rolled in 2022 and 2024 could be a total blowout.
Lose by winning.
I think that's an overly pessimistic outlook. You're likely to get a 52-48 or even 51-49 Senate. There are enough centrist-leaning Rs (Romney, Collins and Murawski, at least) that there will be room for compromise. The Senate isn't simply going to block everything for the next two years.
As for 2022 Senate races, there are 20 Rs and 12 Ds up for re-election. Very few are in swing states. Those potentially at risk are Republicans Johnson (Wis.), Toomey (Penn.), Burr (NC) and Democrats Masto (Nev.) and Hassan (NH).
Either way, hard to see any significant change in 2022 either way.
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Another reason why the voting system needs to change and to be much easier moving forward. This is big and has possibly affected Senate races, President etc...look at these non delivered numbers.
https://twitter.com/johnkruzel/status/1324004554485211136?s=19
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Another reason why the voting system needs to change and to be much easier moving forward:
https://twitter.com/johnkruzel/status/1324004554485211136?s=19
Reason to doubt this is factual.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dppad/why-the-post-offices-last-minute-ballot-crisis-isnt-as-dire-as-it-seems
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This is what I was watching last night. It’s hard to fathom how Trump got up to -700. At some point, the money coming in should balance. Even if someone wanted to manipulate the market, that break even number should have been around -400. Could be just dumb money?
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This is what I was watching last night. It’s hard to fathom how Trump got up to -700. At some point, the money coming in should balance. Even if someone wanted to manipulate the market, that break even number should have been around -400. Could be just dumb money?
I am going to generalize. 1. Drinking, 2. Sophistication of watching returns and 3. liquidity.
Also is this thing open to international participants?
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Will trump give up the presidency now? The next couple months should be fun.
Yes he will.
I predict he runs again in 2024
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I think that's an overly pessimistic outlook. You're likely to get a 52-48 or even 51-49 Senate. There are enough centrist-leaning Rs (Romney, Collins and Murawski, at least) that there will be room for compromise. The Senate isn't simply going to block everything for the next two years.
As for 2022 Senate races, there are 20 Rs and 12 Ds up for re-election. Very few are in swing states. Those potentially at risk are Republicans Johnson (Wis.), Toomey (Penn.), Burr (NC) and Democrats Masto (Nev.) and Hassan (NH).
Either way, hard to see any significant change in 2022 either way.
You have far more faith in senate GOP and mcconnell than I do.
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Reason to doubt this is factual.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dppad/why-the-post-offices-last-minute-ballot-crisis-isnt-as-dire-as-it-seems
That's interesting. We'll see. This is also from Aaron Gordon:
https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/wx8ewq/usps-has-made-57-changes-to-mail-operations-since-louis-dejoy-took-over?__twitter_impression=true
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John Kruzel @johnkruzel
🚨BREAKING: New USPS data appears to show a failure to deliver mail ballots from voters across the country on Election Day. U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan will hold a noon hearing over USPS' non-compliance with his order yesterday to rush deliver all remaining mail ballots
https://twitter.com/johnkruzel/status/1324004554485211136
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John Kruzel @johnkruzel
🚨BREAKING: New USPS data appears to show a failure to deliver mail ballots from voters across the country on Election Day. U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan will hold a noon hearing over USPS' non-compliance with his order yesterday to rush deliver all remaining mail ballots
https://twitter.com/johnkruzel/status/1324004554485211136
Check out my back and forth with Fluffy just above this for more info. Maybe also check out Aaron Gordon's twitter which is @A_W_Gordon as well.
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According to data released on Wednesday, the United States Postal Service failed to deliver thousands of absentee ballots around the country before the cut-off times — and one of the worst failures occurred in South Florida, where 27 percent of mail-in votes may have never been received.
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/usps-failed-to-deliver-27-percent-of-mail-in-ballots-in-south-florida-report/#.X6LM4qK2mhk.twitter
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According to data released on Wednesday, the United States Postal Service failed to deliver thousands of absentee ballots around the country before the cut-off times — and one of the worst failures occurred in South Florida, where 27 percent of mail-in votes may have never been received.
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/usps-failed-to-deliver-27-percent-of-mail-in-ballots-in-south-florida-report/#.X6LM4qK2mhk.twitter
Read the article I posted above. There may be sound reason why the data is incomplete.
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I think that's an overly pessimistic outlook. You're likely to get a 52-48 or even 51-49 Senate. There are enough centrist-leaning Rs (Romney, Collins and Murawski, at least) that there will be room for compromise. The Senate isn't simply going to block everything for the next two years.
As for 2022 Senate races, there are 20 Rs and 12 Ds up for re-election. Very few are in swing states. Those potentially at risk are Republicans Johnson (Wis.), Toomey (Penn.), Burr (NC) and Democrats Masto (Nev.) and Hassan (NH).
Either way, hard to see any significant change in 2022 either way.
Pessimistic, yes, but also realistic.
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I think that's an overly pessimistic outlook. You're likely to get a 52-48 or even 51-49 Senate. There are enough centrist-leaning Rs (Romney, Collins and Murawski, at least) that there will be room for compromise. The Senate isn't simply going to block everything for the next two years.
As for 2022 Senate races, there are 20 Rs and 12 Ds up for re-election. Very few are in swing states. Those potentially at risk are Republicans Johnson (Wis.), Toomey (Penn.), Burr (NC) and Democrats Masto (Nev.) and Hassan (NH).
Either way, hard to see any significant change in 2022 either way.
Just a factual tidbit ... Burr already has announced he will not run for re-election, so that NC Senate seat figures to be totally up for grabs.
Had Cal Cunningham, the Dem challenger for the Senate seat held by Thom Tillis, not gotten caught sexting a couple months ago, he almost surely would have beaten Tillis last night. Cunningham's idiocy could cost the Dems the Senate. (At his closing rally Monday, Tillis really ripped Cunningham for adultery -- with Trump standing next to him, clapping.)
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Pessimistic, yes, but also realistic.
Given the Senate seats up for election in 2022, why is it realistic to think the Ds are going to get crushed? Which seats do you see them losing?
Bennett (Colo.)
Blumenthal (Conn.)
Masto (Nev.)
Duckworth (Ill.)
Harris* (Calif.)
Hassan (NH)
Leahy (VT)
Murray (Wash.)
Schatz (Hawaii)
Schumer (NY)
Van Hollen (Md)
Wyden (Ore)
I get that mid-terms are almost always bad for the party that holds the White House, but I just don't see many vulnerable seats above.
On the other hand, more Republican seats are at stake in 2020, and more of them are in battleground states. Nothing indicates either side is going to get crushed, and certainly not the Ds.
What am I missing?
The Rs will almost certainly gain some House seats in 2022, but it would have to be a once-in-a-century swing to take control.
* Or her replacement
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Just posted update on where things stand by the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/upshot/election-states-too-close-to-call.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201104&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=43491&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
The upshot: Biden is in very good shape in Wisconsin and Nevada, and also is likely to win Michigan, which would bring him to 270 on the button -- assuming he really did win AZ. NYT says call giving AZ to Biden might have been a little premature.
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This is a USPS explanation in court this morning:
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Nationally, Biden has now received more votes for president than any other candidate in U.S. election history, with over 69.5 million. He leads Trump by roughly 3 million votes total, with millions more left to be counted.
If the current trend holds, Democrats will have won the popular vote in 7 of the last 8 presidential elections (1992, 1996, 2000, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2020), despite not holding the White House for 12 of those years.
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Just posted update on where things stand by the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/upshot/election-states-too-close-to-call.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201104&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=43491&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
The upshot: Biden is in very good shape in Wisconsin and Nevada, and also is likely to win Michigan, which would bring him to 270 on the button -- assuming he really did win AZ. NYT says call giving AZ to Biden might have been a little premature.
Biden will win Wisconsin and Michigan. Arizona is going to be close, I think when all is said and done, Trump wins Arizona. Over 400,000 votes outstanding, a lot from suburbs and rural areas. Many ballots arriving last minute. I think Trump wins enough of them to close the gap.
That leaves lawsuits in Pennsylvania as the likely decider. Looks like Biden might have the numbers to close the gap. Might also have the numbers in Georgia.
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In Georgia, there are approx: 250,000 votes left to be counted. They are in heavy Biden areas. Biden needs to win 70% of them to win Georgia. He has a decent chance to do that.
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If anything, it looks like Trump may have underperformed compared to the Senate and House. More analysis is needed but not only is the Senate going to stay solidly red, but Rs picked up seats in the House.
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If you had Sharpie Gate on your Bingo Card...spoiler alert it isn't true:
https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/1324045463973203969?s=19
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Trump: Stop counting in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan!
Also Trump: Keep counting in Arizona!
Also also Trump: Count everything in Wisconsin again!
(Note: If Trump is entitled to a recount in Wisconsin, he absolutely should get one. Just noting the mixed messages).
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So if I am reading this right, if Biden wins AZ, WI, MI and NV, he doesn't need PA, GA or NC? He will lose one EV in Maine, but will gain one in Nebraska. That's 270.
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So if I am reading this right, if Biden wins AZ, WI, MI and NV, he doesn't need PA, GA or NC? He will lose one EV in Maine, but will gain one in Nebraska. That's 270.
Correct.
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The scariest thing about Trump losing, is the possibility that he can run again in 2024.
Trump v Biden II! The title bout that absolutely no one asked for! Sounds so gross.
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The scariest thing about Trump losing, is the possibility that he can run again in 2024.
He will not get the Republican nomination.
He has enough people brainwashed that maybe he could win as an independent!
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He will not get the Republican nomination.
He has enough people brainwashed that maybe he could win as an independent!
Why wouldn't he?
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So if I am reading this right, if Biden wins AZ, WI, MI and NV, he doesn't need PA, GA or NC? He will lose one EV in Maine, but will gain one in Nebraska. That's 270.
Also, if Trump takes AZ, NV, and PA. And Biden flips Georgia. We have a tie.
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Also, if Trump takes AZ, NV, and PA. And Biden flips Georgia. We have a tie.
Which means the Republicans would win because the House votes for the President, with each state's delegation counting as one vote, and the Vice President is decided by a straight vote by the Senate.
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The scariest thing about Trump losing, is the possibility that he can run again in 2024.
Trump v Biden II! The title bout that absolutely no one asked for! Sounds so gross.
I would bet substantial money neither are running in 2024 even if Biden pulls this out. Trump will stamp and shout and then move on to his own TV network or the like. He has what he needs to keep giving himself a platform and adoration.
Biden will be on the wrong side of 80 and he’s already seemed to be burned out. There is a far better chance of him stepping down before the end of his term than running for re-election
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Also, if Trump takes AZ, NV, and PA. And Biden flips Georgia. We have a tie.
Many of the outstanding votes in Nevada are in metro Vegas and Reno. Many of the outstanding votes in Arizona are Metro Phoenix and Tucson. Anything can happen, but these are areas where Biden is more successful. They are expected to break for Biden. Little to zero reason to believe right now that Biden will not win both Arizona and Nevada.
The expectation in Pennsylvania is that Biden will win with a higher number than DT did in 2016.
We'll see.
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Trump will be 78 in 2024, and will likely need to spend the next four years cashing in on his name. The big race will be which Republican he will deem as his successor. (It won't be Pence.)
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I would bet substantial money neither are running in 2024 even if Biden pulls this out. Trump will stamp and shout and then move on to his own TV network or the like. He has what he needs to keep giving himself a platform and adoration.
Biden will be on the wrong side of 80 and he’s already seemed to be burned out. There is a far better chance of him stepping down before the end of his term than running for re-election
This. Plus Trump would be 78, I mean Biden clearly shows that that's a big four years in terms of energy and mental acuity
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Trump will be 78 in 2024, and will likely need to spend the next four years cashing in on his name. The big race will be which Republican he will deem as his successor. (It won't be Pence.)
My guess is it's the Q nut job from Georgia.
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I would bet substantial money neither are running in 2024 even if Biden pulls this out. Trump will stamp and shout and then move on to his own TV network or the like. He has what he needs to keep giving himself a platform and adoration.
Biden will be on the wrong side of 80 and he’s already seemed to be burned out. There is a far better chance of him stepping down before the end of his term than running for re-election
I concur.
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Many of the outstanding votes in Nevada are in metro Vegas and Reno. Many of the outstanding votes in Arizona are Metro Phoenix and Tucson. Anything can happen, but these are areas where Biden is more successful. They are expected to break for Biden. Little to zero reason to believe right now that Biden will not win both Arizona and Nevada.
The expectation in Pennsylvania is that Biden will win with a higher number than DT did in 2016.
We'll see.
Re: Arizona:
Biden's lead is about 93,500 votes.
There are an estimated 450,000 votes left to be counted. So Trump needs about 328,500 of the remaining votes, i.e. 73 percent, to make up that gap. The only counties in which he's come close to that big of a margin, Mohave and Graham counties, have 96 and 94 percent of their votes in, respectively. So he's not getting much help there
Of the six counties with the most uncounted ballots, four have Biden leading: Apache (+35), Maricopa (+6), Coconino (+28) and Pima (+22).
It's not impossible for Trump to stage a comeback and win Arizona, but it sure seems a longshot.
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I would bet substantial money neither are running in 2024 even if Biden pulls this out. Trump will stamp and shout and then move on to his own TV network or the like. He has what he needs to keep giving himself a platform and adoration.
Biden will be on the wrong side of 80 and he’s already seemed to be burned out. There is a far better chance of him stepping down before the end of his term than running for re-election
JWags hits the nail on the head. Trump Media Network will be up and running next year and he'll find himself much happier (I would imagine) being able to use that platform.
The 2024 election potentially could be radically different on a few levels. Assuming Biden wins, I can't see him possibly wanting a second term at his age. Pelosi is 80 right now, McConnell turns 79 in a couple months, Pence won't run in 2024. I have no idea how the ideology of America will or won't change over the next four years, but I do know that father time is undefeated.
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JWags hits the nail on the head. Trump Media Network will be up and running next year and he'll find himself much happier (I would imagine) being able to use that platform.
The 2024 election potentially could be radically different on a few levels. Assuming Biden wins, I can't see him possibly wanting a second term at his age. Pelosi is 80 right now, McConnell turns 79 in a couple months, Pence won't run in 2024. I have no idea how the ideology of America will or won't change over the next four years, but I do know that father time is undefeated.
Agreed on Mitch, Nancy and Pence. 2024 will also be too late for Bernie, and possibly Warren (she'd be 75).
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So if I am reading this right, if Biden wins AZ, WI, MI and NV, he doesn't need PA, GA or NC? He will lose one EV in Maine, but will gain one in Nebraska. That's 270.
Correct
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Re: Arizona:
Biden's lead is about 93,500 votes.
There are an estimated 450,000 votes left to be counted. So Trump needs about 328,500 of the remaining votes, i.e. 73 percent, to make up that gap. The only counties in which he's come close to that big of a margin, Mohave and Graham counties, have 96 and 94 percent of their votes in, respectively. So he's not getting much help there
Of the six counties with the most uncounted ballots, four have Biden leading: Apache (+35), Maricopa (+6), Coconino (+28) and Pima (+22).
It's not impossible for Trump to stage a comeback and win Arizona, but it sure seems a longshot.
Yep. I would also add that Biden is ahead roughly 71-27 percent with Hispanic voters in AZ. Huge considering the quantity of voters.
Contrast this with 55% Florida Cuban voters for Trump. And 30% Puerto Rican Florida voters voted for Trump.
Wisconsin was 77-22 percent Hispanic voters for Biden. Colorado was 73-24 percent Hispanic voters for Biden.
One can see that Hispanic voters vary across the country.
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Many of the outstanding votes in Nevada are in metro Vegas and Reno. Many of the outstanding votes in Arizona are Metro Phoenix and Tucson. Anything can happen, but these are areas where Biden is more successful. They are expected to break for Biden. Little to zero reason to believe right now that Biden will not win both Arizona and Nevada.
The expectation in Pennsylvania is that Biden will win with a higher number than DT did in 2016.
We'll see.
From what I read in Pennsylvania, the absentee ballots being counted were about 75%+ for Biden and they expect the trend to hold. If holds then Biden wins PA by well over 100,000+ votes.
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He will not get the Republican nomination.
He has enough people brainwashed that maybe he could win as an independent!
And Trump and his entourage will most likely be investigated for various corruption charges (those not already charged) and he won't have executive privilege to hide behind nor an Attorney General covering him up.
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There's always a tweet.
@EricTrump
The Sad Truth: The Cost Of Stein/Clinton's #Wisconsin Vote Recount Could Have Saved At Least 5,000 Children's Lives
3:01pm · 4 Dec 2016
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Even Scott Walker is essentially saying a recount in Wisconsin would be a waste of time.
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I'm going to put a rational conservative spin on the whole thing, if you folks promise not to shoot me!
1) Trump's only hope is to carry Nevada and maintain his leads in Pennsylvania, Georgia and Florida. Possible but not easy and certainly less than likely given where the votes probably are.
2) Mr. Biden, at best, is a one-termer. His mental acuity does not appear to be what it once was and I'm frightened that he won't make it through his entire term. If he does and he maintains the effort he did when he was Vice President, we have the potential for a new era of collaborative politics. Something we haven't seen since the Clinton era. If Ms. Harris becomes President, many of us conservatives will have severe indigestion.
3) The GOP's probable retention of the Senate means coalition government is a MUST. Coupled with a conservative Supreme Court likely to look askance on excessive Executive Actions, I'm hopeful that the result will be more of a brake on unilateral executive action and more of an effort to go back to Washington horsetrading. I see a divided legislature as a blessing (as it was during the Reagan and Clinton administrations).
4) The fact that a candidate as flawed and divisive as Donald Trump is drove the Democrats to defeat in 2016 and may get within an eyelash of doing it again in 2020 should tell the Democrats that they need to come back from the edge and move more toward the needs and expectations of every American. Had Bernie been nominated, the Orange One would have ended up back in the White House and we wouldn't be worried as I write this about Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Georgia! Really, we would not be. Middle America is still out there and it aint going away. Not now, nor when the Millennials age.
5) One of the most frustrating elements of the Republican party is its inability to reach out to African-Americans, most Hispanics, gay and lesbian people and others. Look, conservatives have a good story, when they sell it right. And most of us agree with the notion of compassion for our fellow man and woman. But how many African Americans have been asked for their vote by the Republicans? Honestly? Donald Trump, when he wasn't aggravating people, started down this path four years ago. He turned back almost as fast as he headed down it. Conservatives -- and nonconservative Republicans -- have to sell the notion that our capitalistic ideas and commitment to rising the tide will help everyone, regardless of color, religion orientation or anything else. It's OK to embrace Conservative Christians but you do so by reminding them that God commanded us to love our neighbor as ourselves! Not to be self-centered or bigoted.
6) The GOP has to move past its excessive focus on guns. Defend the second amendment, OK. But this irrational fixation on guns does relatively little good.
7) A final thought -- If The Donald is truly vanquished, it opens the way for a new breed of GOPers. You're up Nikki Haley!
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Trump will be 78 in 2024, and will likely need to spend the next four years cashing in on his name. The big race will be which Republican he will deem as his successor. (It won't be Pence.)
TUCKER CARLSON!!!
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For the most part, I was with you until #7. Want nothing to do with Haley or anyone that worked in this administration.
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That neither party is likely happy with the outcome yesterday, makes me happy.
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From what I read in Pennsylvania, the absentee ballots being counted were about 75%+ for Biden and they expect the trend to hold. If holds then Biden wins PA by well over 100,000+ votes.
Yep. Philly has 3 counties. Philadelphia County still needs to count 36% of their vote. Biden is winning it at 78%. (this may go even higher considering mailed in ballots overwhelmingly favor Biden. The other two counties need to count about 15% each. Again, these are favorable for Biden.) And then you add needing to count Allegheny County in Pittsburgh, etc ..and Pennsylvania looks very good for Biden.
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Yep. Philly has 3 counties. Philadelphia County still needs to count 36% of their vote. Biden is winning it at 78%. (this may go even higher considering mailed in ballots overwhelmingly favor Biden. The other two counties need to count about 15% each. Again, these are favorable for Biden.) And then you add needing to count Allegheny County in Pittsburgh, etc ..and Pennsylvania looks very good for Biden.
the whole Trump brood is calling Pennsylvania for them. All a part of their "it was stolen from us" narrative.
Right now Trump is demanding an end to counting in GA (Trump leading) MI (trailing now) and PA (leading) and yet demanding additional counting in AZ (trailing) and NV (trailing).
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For the most part, I was with you until #7. Want nothing to do with Haley or anyone that worked in this administration.
Same. I'd vote for a Republican again, but I'll never vote for anyone who's served any role in the Trump Administration or anyone who's served as a Trump promoter or apologist.
Some possibilities (who probably would stand little chance in a primary):
Charlie Baker
Larry Hogan
Paul Ryan
John Kasich
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I'm going to put a rational conservative spin on the whole thing, if you folks promise not to shoot me!
1) Trump's only hope is to carry Nevada and maintain his leads in Pennsylvania, Georgia and Florida. Possible but not easy and certainly less than likely given where the votes probably are.
2) Mr. Biden, at best, is a one-termer. His mental acuity does not appear to be what it once was and I'm frightened that he won't make it through his entire term. If he does and he maintains the effort he did when he was Vice President, we have the potential for a new era of collaborative politics. Something we haven't seen since the Clinton era. If Ms. Harris becomes President, many of us conservatives will have severe indigestion.
3) The GOP's probable retention of the Senate means coalition government is a MUST. Coupled with a conservative Supreme Court likely to look askance on excessive Executive Actions, I'm hopeful that the result will be more of a brake on unilateral executive action and more of an effort to go back to Washington horsetrading. I see a divided legislature as a blessing (as it was during the Reagan and Clinton administrations).
4) The fact that a candidate as flawed and divisive as Donald Trump is drove the Democrats to defeat in 2016 and may get within an eyelash of doing it again in 2020 should tell the Democrats that they need to come back from the edge and move more toward the needs and expectations of every American. Had Bernie been nominated, the Orange One would have ended up back in the White House and we wouldn't be worried as I write this about Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Georgia! Really, we would not be. Middle America is still out there and it aint going away. Not now, nor when the Millennials age.
5) One of the most frustrating elements of the Republican party is its inability to reach out to African-Americans, most Hispanics, gay and lesbian people and others. Look, conservatives have a good story, when they sell it right. And most of us agree with the notion of compassion for our fellow man and woman. But how many African Americans have been asked for their vote by the Republicans? Honestly? Donald Trump, when he wasn't aggravating people, started down this path four years ago. He turned back almost as fast as he headed down it. Conservatives -- and nonconservative Republicans -- have to sell the notion that our capitalistic ideas and commitment to rising the tide will help everyone, regardless of color, religion orientation or anything else. It's OK to embrace Conservative Christians but you do so by reminding them that God commanded us to love our neighbor as ourselves! Not to be self-centered or bigoted.
6) The GOP has to move past its excessive focus on guns. Defend the second amendment, OK. But this irrational fixation on guns does relatively little good.
7) A final thought -- If The Donald is truly vanquished, it opens the way for a new breed of GOPers. You're up Nikki Haley!
Respectfully,
You may want to see the Forest for the Trees. I believe right now, in front of your very eyes, many Americans have voted their opinion of Donald Trump's mental acuity. I didn't see anything in your post about Trump's mental acuity.
Some of the Democratic supporters believe Biden, Harris, Obama, H Clinton, etc ..have all been far too conservative in their record. But that isn't what you will hear in tunnel vision partisan spin talking points. But records speak for themselves.
No one knows who would have won this or that if this or that person would have been here or there. This is a head to head all can see and make conclusions from it.
It is also misrepresentative that the GOP is the party of capitalism. If your paragraph there was code for trickle down economics. We are all aware that doesn't work. Maybe try to focus more on systemic issues, of which there are many.
I may be alone here but I don't believe in political parties. Problem solving yes, political parties no.
Reach out to minorities LGBTQ? etc...lol....uh I believe not advocating their persecution would be a good place to start. Words matter. They mattered to tens of millions of people. Policies matter too.
Good luck with all of that.
PS maybe try get some of those Christians to understand what pro life really means.
PSS...I am all good with a different approach or take or opinion on anything. But a large part of GOP strategy has been lying. It has been intentionally mischaracterizing Democrat positions, prey upon some people's irrational fears etc...this is not a feasible long term strategy in my opinion. It can and has had short term success here and there. That's your party. It is what it is.
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For the most part, I was with you until #7. Want nothing to do with Haley or anyone that worked in this administration.
Every new administration has left-overs from previous Republican or Democratic administrations. Expect the Biden Administration to be populated with Obama Alums, just as the Obama Administration was populated with Clinton alums and the Bush Administration was population with Reagan-Bush alums.
Maybe Haley isn't the answer. She will do well with suburban women, educated conservatives and even southerners. There may be someone out there we don't know about fully, yet. And don't tell me Ron DeSantis. He has a long way to go yet.
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Michigan is going nuts right now
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Re: Arizona:
Biden's lead is about 93,500 votes.
There are an estimated 450,000 votes left to be counted. So Trump needs about 328,500 of the remaining votes, i.e. 73 percent, to make up that gap. The only counties in which he's come close to that big of a margin, Mohave and Graham counties, have 96 and 94 percent of their votes in, respectively. So he's not getting much help there
Of the six counties with the most uncounted ballots, four have Biden leading: Apache (+35), Maricopa (+6), Coconino (+28) and Pima (+22).
It's not impossible for Trump to stage a comeback and win Arizona, but it sure seems a longshot.
1. I don't think your math is right regarding needing 328,500 votes.
2. Arizona is now saying there are over 600,000 votes left uncounted, over 400,000 in Maricopa county. They keep finding more votes that were either hand delivered, or mail in arriving late in the day on Election Day.
We'll know more at 8:00 CST. But I expect Arizona to flip to Trump.
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I'm going to put a rational conservative spin on the whole thing, if you folks promise not to shoot me!
1) Trump's only hope is to carry Nevada and maintain his leads in Pennsylvania, Georgia and Florida. Possible but not easy and certainly less than likely given where the votes probably are.
2) Mr. Biden, at best, is a one-termer. His mental acuity does not appear to be what it once was and I'm frightened that he won't make it through his entire term. If he does and he maintains the effort he did when he was Vice President, we have the potential for a new era of collaborative politics. Something we haven't seen since the Clinton era. If Ms. Harris becomes President, many of us conservatives will have severe indigestion.
3) The GOP's probable retention of the Senate means coalition government is a MUST. Coupled with a conservative Supreme Court likely to look askance on excessive Executive Actions, I'm hopeful that the result will be more of a brake on unilateral executive action and more of an effort to go back to Washington horsetrading. I see a divided legislature as a blessing (as it was during the Reagan and Clinton administrations).
4) The fact that a candidate as flawed and divisive as Donald Trump is drove the Democrats to defeat in 2016 and may get within an eyelash of doing it again in 2020 should tell the Democrats that they need to come back from the edge and move more toward the needs and expectations of every American. Had Bernie been nominated, the Orange One would have ended up back in the White House and we wouldn't be worried as I write this about Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Georgia! Really, we would not be. Middle America is still out there and it aint going away. Not now, nor when the Millennials age.
5) One of the most frustrating elements of the Republican party is its inability to reach out to African-Americans, most Hispanics, gay and lesbian people and others. Look, conservatives have a good story, when they sell it right. And most of us agree with the notion of compassion for our fellow man and woman. But how many African Americans have been asked for their vote by the Republicans? Honestly? Donald Trump, when he wasn't aggravating people, started down this path four years ago. He turned back almost as fast as he headed down it. Conservatives -- and nonconservative Republicans -- have to sell the notion that our capitalistic ideas and commitment to rising the tide will help everyone, regardless of color, religion orientation or anything else. It's OK to embrace Conservative Christians but you do so by reminding them that God commanded us to love our neighbor as ourselves! Not to be self-centered or bigoted.
6) The GOP has to move past its excessive focus on guns. Defend the second amendment, OK. But this irrational fixation on guns does relatively little good.
7) A final thought -- If The Donald is truly vanquished, it opens the way for a new breed of GOPers. You're up Nikki Haley!
These are all great thoughts dgles I applaud your intentions and dreams.
5 isn't going to happen any time soon while there's sitting R's in power who are avidly against Obergfell v or are unwilling to even sit at a table with African Americans because the police is too synonymous with the pro gun and pro military spending messages.
7 I'm all ears on a new breed. Nikki Haley is not the answer. Sasse might be though.
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Fox news exit poll questions were VERY interesting
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1. I don't think your math is right regarding needing 328,500 votes.
2. Arizona is now saying there are over 600,000 votes left uncounted, over 400,000 in Maricopa county. They keep finding more votes that were either hand delivered, or mail in arriving late in the day on Election Day.
We'll know more at 8:00 CST. But I expect Arizona to flip to Trump.
Again, the votes outstanding are largely in Maricopa County as well as Pima County, etc which favor Biden. Not sure why you think places performing well for Biden would flip. More votes means more Biden votes too.
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Again, the votes outstanding are largely in Maricopa County as well as Pima County, etc which favor Biden. Not sure why you think places performing well for Biden would flip. More votes means more Biden votes too.
On top of that, the AP called it for Joey. They are very conservative in their calls and also very accurate. They had Florida called in 2000 correctly. It would take a lot to swing Zona based upon whats outstanding and the way trends go.
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Michigan is going nuts right now
yep, the emails went out this morning imploring Trump supporters to storm the building. Give it time, armed militia members will be there too.
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1. I don't think your math is right regarding needing 328,500 votes.
2. Arizona is now saying there are over 600,000 votes left uncounted, over 400,000 in Maricopa county. They keep finding more votes that were either hand delivered, or mail in arriving late in the day on Election Day.
We'll know more at 8:00 CST. But I expect Arizona to flip to Trump.
I'm working off the numbers the NY Times has.
The fact most of these votes are coming from Maricopa AND mailed in is NOT good news for Trump. He's been down there consistently and even if he replicates his numbers there from 2016 - an unlikely feat given results in most major city/suburban areas so far - it won't be enough.
Maybe you're right, but I stand by my belief that Trump flipping the script is a longshot.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/results-arizona-president.html
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The mitten goes to Joe.
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yep, the emails went out this morning imploring Trump supporters to storm the building. Give it time, armed militia members will be there too.
And they have stormed the building and are demanding to be let in to stop the counting...with Biden 37,000 votes ahead. Genius.
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And they have stormed the building and are demanding to be let in to stop the counting...with Biden 37,000 votes ahead. Genius.
Anyone have links to stories on this?
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Anyone have links to stories on this?
https://twitter.com/PattersonNBC/status/1324086177885003778?s=19
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Anyone have links to stories on this?
https://twitter.com/annalise_frank/status/1324079313176678402
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I'm going to put a rational conservative spin on the whole thing, if you folks promise not to shoot me!
1) Trump's only hope is to carry Nevada and maintain his leads in Pennsylvania, Georgia and Florida. Possible but not easy and certainly less than likely given where the votes probably are.
2) Mr. Biden, at best, is a one-termer. His mental acuity does not appear to be what it once was and I'm frightened that he won't make it through his entire term. If he does and he maintains the effort he did when he was Vice President, we have the potential for a new era of collaborative politics. Something we haven't seen since the Clinton era. If Ms. Harris becomes President, many of us conservatives will have severe indigestion.
3) The GOP's probable retention of the Senate means coalition government is a MUST. Coupled with a conservative Supreme Court likely to look askance on excessive Executive Actions, I'm hopeful that the result will be more of a brake on unilateral executive action and more of an effort to go back to Washington horsetrading. I see a divided legislature as a blessing (as it was during the Reagan and Clinton administrations).
4) The fact that a candidate as flawed and divisive as Donald Trump is drove the Democrats to defeat in 2016 and may get within an eyelash of doing it again in 2020 should tell the Democrats that they need to come back from the edge and move more toward the needs and expectations of every American. Had Bernie been nominated, the Orange One would have ended up back in the White House and we wouldn't be worried as I write this about Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Georgia! Really, we would not be. Middle America is still out there and it aint going away. Not now, nor when the Millennials age.
5) One of the most frustrating elements of the Republican party is its inability to reach out to African-Americans, most Hispanics, gay and lesbian people and others. Look, conservatives have a good story, when they sell it right. And most of us agree with the notion of compassion for our fellow man and woman. But how many African Americans have been asked for their vote by the Republicans? Honestly? Donald Trump, when he wasn't aggravating people, started down this path four years ago. He turned back almost as fast as he headed down it. Conservatives -- and nonconservative Republicans -- have to sell the notion that our capitalistic ideas and commitment to rising the tide will help everyone, regardless of color, religion orientation or anything else. It's OK to embrace Conservative Christians but you do so by reminding them that God commanded us to love our neighbor as ourselves! Not to be self-centered or bigoted.
6) The GOP has to move past its excessive focus on guns. Defend the second amendment, OK. But this irrational fixation on guns does relatively little good.
7) A final thought -- If The Donald is truly vanquished, it opens the way for a new breed of GOPers. You're up Nikki Haley!
OK, so I'm not a conservative at all but a few thoughts:
1) True, but he's not going to win Nevada. Nor Pennsylvania and Georgia is a coin flip at this point. Trump will win Florida.
2) 2nd term? Way too early to say now. His mental acuity is fine. People are confusing his life-long stuttering issue with mental acuity.
3) True. And Dems still have a longshot for a tie in the Senate which will still lead to needed dealmaking.
4) Trump is a religious cult. He's unique. Democrat defeat came in 2016 simply because Dems & Dem leaners didn't show up vote. Period. Mitt Romney got more votes for President in 2012 than Trump did in 2016. Think about that. I'm no Bernie fan and you're probably right on that one.
5) Very fair statement. We'll all be better for it if they do. Can the Republicans stop obsessing over abortion too. There has to be some compromise somewhere along the lines of the Clintonian doctrine of "safe but rare."
6) Very fair statement. We'll all be better for it if they do. Don't like 80-85% of gun owners what the gun loophole closed and few other safety issues passed?
7) Trump won't go quietly, but it may be in his best interest to. Nikki Haley served in the Trump Administration. No one from this administration should ever be allowed to serve in public office again.
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Absolutely bungled election by the Democrats. Biden will win, but it was far too close. No senate, and there are currently some House losses. Can we fire Pelosi out of a cannon already?
Pollsters better find a new method otherwise people should just ignore them.
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Seeing how divided we are, this could be the best outcome for the country. Trump gone but divided govt and slim majorities.
No one with any mandate.
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Seeing how divided we are, this could be the best outcome for the country. Trump gone but divided govt and slim majorities.
No one with any mandate.
Yeah probably the best situation to rebuild in the short term.
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Same. I'd vote for a Republican again, but I'll never vote for anyone who's served any role in the Trump Administration or anyone who's served as a Trump promoter or apologist.
Some possibilities (who probably would stand little chance in a primary):
Charlie Baker
Larry Hogan
Paul Ryan
John Kasich
Charlie Baker & Larry Hogan are Northeast Republicans which kind of makes them Democrats anywhere else in the country. You're right, if they somehow got through a primary they would have broad appeal.
Paul Ryan - barf, vomit - he thinks he so smart but he's not really. A co-architect of the least popular tax bill ever.
John Kasich - I don't agree with a lot of his views but he's a sane Republican and I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the Biden Administration.
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The mitten goes to Joe.
Arizona+Nevada and it's ovah.
Which would spare us the drama of all the lawsuits coming out of Pennsylvania.
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Charlie Baker & Larry Hogan are Northeast Republicans which kind of makes them Democrats anywhere else in the country. You're right, if they somehow got through a primary they would have broad appeal.
Paul Ryan - barf, vomit - he thinks he so smart but he's not really. A co-architect of the least popular tax bill ever.
John Kasich - I don't agree with a lot of his views but he's a sane Republican and I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the Biden Administration.
Larry Hogan voting for a dead person this election as a joke disqualifies him from being taken seriously. This and his terrible record with black and poor people, and gerrymandering.
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Absolutely bungled election by the Democrats. Biden will win, but it was far too close. No senate, and there are currently some House losses. Can we fire Pelosi out of a cannon already?
Pollsters better find a new method otherwise people should just ignore them.
The polling really was crazy? How did so many respected pollsters get so far off?
I'm thinking there are way more conservative people refusing to take polls, so they are not really indicative and because pollsters don't know what they don't know the numbers get way skewed.
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Some Pennsylvania stats:
Current Biden margin (vs. Clinton '16):
Lackawanna: 8.4 (3.5)
Luzerne: -16.6 (-19.3)
Washington: -22.9 (-24.5)
Northampton: 0.4 (-3.8)
More PA counties:
Dauphin 8.2 (2.9)
Lancaster -17.2 (-19.1)
York -25.0 (-28.9)
Schuylkill -39.8 (42.9)
Pike -19.0 (-25.9%)
Still waiting on Philly Counties which will be big for Biden.
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Charlie Baker & Larry Hogan are Northeast Republicans which kind of makes them Democrats anywhere else in the country. You're right, if they somehow got through a primary they would have broad appeal.
The last Republican to win the White House is from New York.
But yeah, I know what you mean. I think Hogan would have a shot, if there's some kind of GOP reckoning (not hopeful for that). He's more mid-Atlantic than Northeast, and doesn't come off as an elitist.
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OK, so I'm not a conservative at all but a few thoughts:
1) True, but he's not going to win Nevada. Nor Pennsylvania and Georgia is a coin flip at this point. Trump will win Florida.
2) 2nd term? Way too early to say now. His mental acuity is fine. People are confusing his life-long stuttering issue with mental acuity.
3) True. And Dems still have a longshot for a tie in the Senate which will still lead to needed dealmaking.
4) Trump is a religious cult. He's unique. Democrat defeat came in 2016 simply because Dems & Dem leaners didn't show up vote. Period. Mitt Romney got more votes for President in 2012 than Trump did in 2016. Think about that. I'm no Bernie fan and you're probably right on that one.
5) Very fair statement. We'll all be better for it if they do. Can the Republicans stop obsessing over abortion too. There has to be some compromise somewhere along the lines of the Clintonian doctrine of "safe but rare."
6) Very fair statement. We'll all be better for it if they do. Don't like 80-85% of gun owners what the gun loophole closed and few other safety issues passed?
7) Trump won't go quietly, but it may be in his best interest to. Nikki Haley served in the Trump Administration. No one from this administration should ever be allowed to serve in public office again.
1) Correct
2) You're delusional. He probably won't make it a full term. Plus, mental drop off only GAINS speed with each year.
3) If you guys think there will be civility, I have a bridge to sell you. I'd look to Wisconsin for a preview of politics for the next two years... maybe 4.
4) Trump is a terrible candidate that has sleepwalked the last four years. This should have been a bloodbath in the wake of Covid19. Yet, it was close. Democrats are totally uninspiring outside of a few young candidates.
5) Trump made gains with minorities everywhere compared to '16. Democrats will continue to treat minorities as a monolith. Dems need to do a much better job of speaking about their ideas. Again, their messaging is garbage. Want an example? Biden is going to lose FL. Meanwhile, FL voters passed a ballot measure by over 20 points that raises the minimum wage to $15/hr. That is a god damned Democratic policy... THAT EASILY PASSED AND DEMS STILL LOST FLORIDA.
6) That'd be nice, but it won't happen. It has been ingrained in almost every Republican that I know that if the Dems gain power, they'll take your guns. Despite how preposterous it is. Wedge issue that will continue to be used.
7) Maybe. Depends. His kids will run at some point. There isn't a post DJT world with all of the new Republican's he has brought into office. Nikki Haley is okay.
Look brother, we are screwed as a country for quite some time. Our politicians say really dangerous crap with impunity. None of these guys face any consequences for their actions. And we elect them term after term.
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These are quite the tweets.
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1324108200141082624?s=21
He’s living in an alternate reality.
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6) That'd be nice, but it won't happen. It has been ingrained in almost every Republican that I know that if the Dems gain power, they'll take your guns. Despite how preposterous it is. Wedge issue that will continue to be used.
Most Republicans I know - and I live in a county that voted Trump - aren't even gun owners (to be fair, I live in the burbs).
The few who are don't stomp around muttering "from my cold dead hands." I'm not saying those people aren't out there - clearly, they are - but you paint with far too broad of a brush.
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1) Correct
2) You're delusional. He probably won't make it a full term. Plus, mental drop off only GAINS speed with each year.
3) If you guys think there will be civility, I have a bridge to sell you. I'd look to Wisconsin for a preview of politics for the next two years... maybe 4.
4) Trump is a terrible candidate that has sleepwalked the last four years. This should have been a bloodbath in the wake of Covid19. Yet, it was close. Democrats are totally uninspiring outside of a few young candidates.
5) Trump made gains with minorities everywhere compared to '16. Democrats will continue to treat minorities as a monolith. Dems need to do a much better job of speaking about their ideas. Again, their messaging is garbage. Want an example? Biden is going to lose FL. Meanwhile, FL voters passed a ballot measure by over 20 points that raises the minimum wage to $15/hr. That is a god damned Democratic policy... THAT EASILY PASSED AND DEMS STILL LOST FLORIDA.
6) That'd be nice, but it won't happen. It has been ingrained in almost every Republican that I know that if the Dems gain power, they'll take your guns. Despite how preposterous it is. Wedge issue that will continue to be used.
7) Maybe. Depends. His kids will run at some point. There isn't a post DJT world with all of the new Republican's he has brought into office. Nikki Haley is okay.
Look brother, we are screwed as a country for quite some time. Our politicians say really dangerous crap with impunity. None of these guys face any consequences for their actions. And we elect them term after term.
Biden's mental acuity is good now and has been up until now moving forward. It is not in question at this time. Anything saying otherwise is a manufactured agenda, whether it is from Bernie Sanders supporters or from Fox News etc...it's pretty difficult to even have a conversation if people can't accept this.
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Arizona+Nevada and it's ovah.
Which would spare us the drama of all the lawsuits coming out of Pennsylvania.
But man is Pennsylvania going to be close. Still over 1M mail in ballots to be counted.
https://www.votespa.com/About-Elections/Pages/Counting-Dashboard.aspx
But also a lot of mail in ballots not returned. Will any still arrive? If so, how many?
Not to mention that over 6% of the Philly precincts still haven't reported.
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Most Republicans I know - and I live in a county that voted Trump - aren't even gun owners (to be fair, I live in the burbs).
The few who are don't stomp around muttering "from my cold dead hands." I'm not saying those people aren't out there - clearly, they are - but you paint with far too broad of a brush.
The ones I know are from the Fox Valley, and the counties that surround Dane. I'm not painting with a broad brush. Guns don't have to motivate every Republican, but they won't be divorced from the main Republican platform anytime soon.
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Biden's mental acuity is good now and has been up until now moving forward. It is not in question at this time. Anything saying otherwise is a manufactured agenda, whether it is from Bernie Sanders supporters or from Fox News etc...it's pretty difficult to even have a conversation if people can't accept this.
What do you base this on? Emotion? Even most casual observers would tell you that neither candidate is operating on the same level they were 4 years ago.
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Trump is a lifetime grifter but my god, the Lincoln Project just pulled off the nicest grift I've ever seen
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Any discussion of cognitive decline that doesn't include Rudy Giuliani is woefully incomplete.
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Any discussion of cognitive decline that doesn't include Rudy Giuliani is woefully incomplete.
But he is irrelevant.
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I hereby claim, for banner hanging purposes, the 2020 NCAA Men's Basketball Championship on behalf of Marquette University.
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What do you base this on? Emotion? Even most casual observers would tell you that neither candidate is operating on the same level they were 4 years ago.
I base it on what I see and hear. People can agree or disagree with his record, political positions, opinions, etc.. have at it, but I haven't seen anything that would make me question his mental acuity up until now. I am not a Neurologist, nor am I an expert, but I have spent considerable time with the Washington University Memory Clinic, where I learned some basic things. But again I am not an expert.
What you are saying here in your post is a far cry from having the mental acuity for his job. Mental acuity is the term. I haven't seen anything to show me that he doesn't have it to do the job. I am open to take a look at anything. I am open to the idea that it could be subject to change in the future. And again I am not an expert.
Trump in my opinion has shown ample evidence of multiple disorders (some of which I have studied at length).
I have seen many strategies and efforts to misconstrue and misrepresent Biden's mental acuity from opponents as a strategic tactic. It is often regurgitated talking points.
Do you have any evidence, or examples you can share? The assumption is an earned one that he doesn't unless shown otherwise.
If I thought and felt otherwise I would say so. I would need to see something to change that.
I am virtually emotionless on the subject. Not sure if you are projecting "emotion" or not. I do see this mentioned often with Biden as if it is somehow accepted without evidence. This for me is the old if you make something up and repeat it endlessly, more and more people may believe its truth.
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Apparently networks are now calling Michigan & Wisconsin for Biden.
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I wasn't sure if I should post this video here or in the NM thread.
Get this guy some Arby's, stat.
https://twitter.com/BrodyLogan/status/1324099928667291648
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These are quite the tweets.
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1324108200141082624?s=21
He’s living in an alternate reality.
"We hereby claim the state of Michigan."
I'm trying to remember Civics 101, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it works.
Every day, several times a day, for months before the election: "Waaaa! It's gonna be rigged! It will be the biggest fraud ever! I will take it to the Supreme Court! Waaaa!"
Now: "Waaaa! It's rigged! It's the biggest fraud ever! I will take it to the Supreme Court! Waaaa!"
Man, is Bill Maher right about Donnie being a "whiny little b!tch."
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I wasn't sure if I should post this video here or in the NM thread.
Get this guy some Arby's, stat.
https://twitter.com/BrodyLogan/status/1324099928667291648
I love the official after the rant, turning to the mic and calmly saying: "Where were we?"
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Maricopa County, AZ will have an update at 8pm Central time, and, another one later in the evening. Nevada will also have an update tonight. Previously the Georgia Secretary of State said they could conclude Georgia ballot counting tonight but I am not sure where that stands now.
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These are quite the tweets.
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1324108200141082624?s=21
He’s living in an alternate reality.
But Joe Biden’s mental acuity should be scaring the nation.
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I base it on what I see and hear. People can agree or disagree with his record, political positions, opinions, etc.. have at it, but I haven't seen anything that would make me question his mental acuity up until now. I am not a Neurologist, nor am I an expert, but I have spent considerable time with the Washington University Memory Clinic, where I learned some basic things. But again I am not an expert.
What you are saying here in your post is a far cry from having the mental acuity for his job. Mental acuity is the term. I haven't seen anything to show me that he doesn't have it to do the job. I am open to take a look at anything. I am open to the idea that it could be subject to change in the future. And again I am not an expert.
Trump in my opinion has shown ample evidence of multiple disorders (some of which I have studied at length).
I have seen many strategies and efforts to misconstrue and misrepresent Biden's mental acuity from opponents as a strategic tactic. It is often regurgitated talking points.
Do you have any evidence, or examples you can share? The assumption is an earned one that he doesn't unless shown otherwise.
If I thought and felt otherwise I would say so. I would need to see something to change that.
I am virtually emotionless on the subject. Not sure if you are projecting "emotion" or not. I do see this mentioned often with Biden as if it is somehow accepted without evidence. This for me is the old if you make something up and repeat it endlessly, more and more people may believe its truth.
You can find it anywhere. But no matter what I show you, you're going to attack the source material, attack the bias of the video, or say that things were clipped or fake. So, I'll challenge you to do a little bit of looking on your own. Biden of 2020 isn't the man he was even a few years ago. Look, Jack, if Donald can get through it, I'm sure Biden will sleepwalk his way through a couple of years, but if he runs in 2024... I won't be voting for an 82 year old man. That is stupid, and shouldn't even be on the table.
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But Joe Biden’s mental acuity should be scaring the nation.
No, Trump is acting in bad faith. This has nothing to do with anything but his world is crumbling around him, and he is about to be embarrassed by a guy that he nicknamed Sleepy Joe. His ego is about to take the hit of a lifetime, and he is doing anything and everything he can to stop it. If you thought the last 3.75 years were a wild ride, you ain't seen nothing yet.
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These are quite the tweets.
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1324108200141082624?s=21
He’s living in an alternate reality.
Sadly enough, I think he actually believes he can just ‘claim’ victory and it will happen.
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Trump is a lifetime grifter but my god, the Lincoln Project just pulled off the nicest grift I've ever seen
This.
Dems leaned into "never-trumpers" as a hope to be more "inclusive" to their voting base (at the expense of alienating the left). Well, trump won conservative voters more solidly than 2016.
Sheesh
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I hereby claim a new Lexus from the local dealer!
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This.
Dems leaned into "never-trumpers" as a hope to be more "inclusive" to their voting base (at the expense of alienating the left). Well, trump won conservative voters more solidly than 2016.
Sheesh
Yup, and people threw money at those guys because they had pretty ads and they wanted to believe that they'd make a difference. LP guys are laughing all the way to the bank.
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You can find it anywhere. But no matter what I show you, you're going to attack the source material, attack the bias of the video, or say that things were clipped or fake. So, I'll challenge you to do a little bit of looking on your own. Biden of 2020 isn't the man he was even a few years ago. Look, Jack, if Donald can get through it, I'm sure Biden will sleepwalk his way through a couple of years, but if he runs in 2024... I won't be voting for an 82 year old man. That is stupid, and shouldn't even be on the table.
“Look, Jack” on paper implies emotion to me. You asked if my reaction was out of emotion.
I am genuine, sincere, and open minded. But you made the allegation. And you now want me to provide the evidence for it too. Why would I look for it? I haven’t seen it. It isn’t a premise I believe. Again, I would be happy to look at something.
Apples to oranges comparison for the sake of discussion. Was RBG capable of still doing her job, based on mental acuity? I believe that answer was yes by many accounts. Was she vulnerable to
to physical challenges based on her age and medical history? Yes.
You literally had an opponent recently try to attack Biden in debates, interrupting at all times to try to rattle him because of his stutter history for two hours at a time. That didn’t go so well.
The discussion of age limits etc for various jobs is a whole other discussion. And my opinion there may be very different. But that isn’t the topic.
The discussion also isn’t how how someone is vs some time in the past. The question is does he or she have the mental acuity to do the job now. I believe that is a clear yes to many people. Always subject to change of course aa we are all day to day in life.
Lastly you mentioned 82. He is 78. We’ll take a look at 82 at 82. I am talking about today.
Feel free to show me something I am missing.Otherwise we can agree to disagree and move forward. 👍
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“Look, Jack” on paper implies emotion to me. You asked if my reaction was out of emotion.
I am genuine, sincere, and open minded. But you made the allegation. And you now want me to provide the evidence for it too. Why would I look for it? I haven’t seen it. It isn’t a premise I believe. Again, I would be happy to look at something.
Apples to oranges comparison for the sake of discussion. Was RBG capable of still doing her job, based on mental acuity? I believe that answer was yes by many accounts. Was she vulnerable to
to physical challenges based on her age and medical history, yes.
You literally had an opponent recently try to attack Biden in debates, interrupting at all times to try to rattle him because of his stutter history for two hours at a time. That didn’t go so well.
The discussion of age limits etc for various jobs is a whole other discussion. And my opinion there may be very different. But that isn’t the topic.
The discussion also isn’t how how someone is vs some time in the past. The question is does he or she have the mental acuity to do the job now. I believe that is a clear yes to many people. Always subject to change of course aa we are all day to day in life.
Feel free to show me something I am missing.Otherwise we can agree to disagree and move forward. 👍
Look, Jack, if you want my opinion about RGB, that's fine. She should have retired when Obama was president. There should be term limits for SCOTUS justices. Furthermore, being President is FAR AND AWAY more taxing than being a SC justice. Don't be silly.
I told you to find it so we don't have an endless discussion about other BS. If you can't be arsed to google a couple of videos of Biden's decline then why are we even talking? I already said that the bar that Trump set is pretty low, so just let it go if you're not willing to take a look into it. I'm not going to sift through the videos I googled in two seconds to appease your lack of desire to do the same.
You can disagree, I really don't care.
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This.
Dems leaned into "never-trumpers" as a hope to be more "inclusive" to their voting base (at the expense of alienating the left). Well, trump won conservative voters more solidly than 2016.
Sheesh
Regarding the Lincoln Project, I never was under the impression that their mission was to pull conservatives from Trump. That was never going to happen.
They were trying to pull moderate Republicans, R-leaning independents and conservative Democrats from Trump.
To that end, among self-identified moderates, Trump won 33 percent this year compared to 41 percent in 2016.
Among Democrats, Trump won 6 percent this year compared to 9 percent in 2016.
It would be pure speculation to suggest this was a result of the Lincoln Project. But clearly a portion of the people they were trying to sway turned on Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html
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Look, Jack, if you want my opinion about RGB, that's fine. She should have retired when Obama was president. There should be term limits for SCOTUS justices. Furthermore, being President is FAR AND AWAY more taxing than being a SC justice. Don't be silly.
I told you to find it so we don't have an endless discussion about other BS. If you can't be arsed to google a couple of videos of Biden's decline then why are we even talking? I already said that the bar that Trump set is pretty low, so just let it go if you're not willing to take a look into it. I'm not going to sift through the videos I googled in two seconds to appease your lack of desire to do the same.
You can disagree, I really don't care.
I said I would look at various things you presented. You made the allegation, I didn't. That puts the burden of proof on you, not me. That is like saying "Such and such" ran a child trafficking ring out of the back of a pizzeria, Prove me wrong. It doesn't work that way.
Take Donald Trump. As I said he has multiple disorders. But take any random example. When Donald Trump says something such as Tim Apple, that is more likely because of a lack of preparation than lack of cognition or mental acuity, in that type of example. Things like that.
We can move on. By the way, I like the name Jack. I have had friends and relatives with that name. Jack, Jackie, Jackson. 👍
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Look, Jack, if you want my opinion about RGB, that's fine. She should have retired when Obama was president. There should be term limits for SCOTUS justices. Furthermore, being President is FAR AND AWAY more taxing than being a SC justice. Don't be silly.
I told you to find it so we don't have an endless discussion about other BS. If you can't be arsed to google a couple of videos of Biden's decline then why are we even talking? I already said that the bar that Trump set is pretty low, so just let it go if you're not willing to take a look into it. I'm not going to sift through the videos I googled in two seconds to appease your lack of desire to do the same.
You can disagree, I really don't care.
Do you own a Feel the Bern bumper sticker, by chance? That is, after all, where the "Biden is in cognitive decline" stuff originated. Not very nice of the Bernie Bros, but they're the MAGA cap wearers of the Left, right?
Anyhow, I know it's not as powerful evidence as your casual observers and YouTube videos, but there is this:
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump may call Joe Biden “sleepy,” but the former vice president’s physician states that the 77-year-old is in good health and nowhere near slowing down.
Dr. Kevin O’Connor of The George Washington University released a three-page medical summary of Biden's health on Tuesday at the request of his patient, in which he described Biden as a “healthy, vigorous, 77-year-old male, who is fit to successfully execute the duties of the Presidency to include those as Chief Executive, Head of State and Commander in Chief.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/blog/meet-press-blog-latest-news-analysis-data-driving-political-discussion-n988541/ncrd1103456#blogHeader
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Charlie Baker & Larry Hogan are Northeast Republicans which kind of makes them Democrats anywhere else in the country. You're right, if they somehow got through a primary they would have broad appeal.
Paul Ryan - barf, vomit - he thinks he so smart but he's not really. A co-architect of the least popular tax bill ever.
John Kasich - I don't agree with a lot of his views but he's a sane Republican and I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the Biden Administration.
If I were to pick a northeast+ republican gov that would be accepted by the broader country for president, I would go Sununu.
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I'm going to show my ignorance when it comes to stutters, but is it possible that the idea that "Sleepy Joe" is not all there cognitively comes from the fact that he has a stutter, but it's not an obvious stutter? Like if you knew nothing about Joe Biden and you just heard him give a speech, I don't think you'd have a clue that he had a stutter (unless you work with have studied speech impediments or are in some way familiar with them) and there were just times he struggled to come up with a word or a phrase. Is it possible that there are people who just didn't (or still don't) even realize Joe Biden had a stutter and then just put it in their own mind that he's losing it?
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I'm going to show my ignorance when it comes to stutters, but is it possible that the idea that "Sleepy Joe" is not all there cognitively comes from the fact that he has a stutter, but it's not an obvious stutter? Like if you knew nothing about Joe Biden and you just heard him give a speech, I don't think you'd have a clue that he had a stutter (unless you work with have studied speech impediments or are in some way familiar with them) and there were just times he struggled to come up with a word or a phrase. Is it possible that there are people who just didn't (or still don't) even realize Joe Biden had a stutter and then just put it in their own mind that he's losing it?
Here's the thing, confusing Biden's occasional stutter with cognitive decline was and is an intentional strategic tactic by some opponents in multiple parties.
For me it is about being fair. Lying, stealing, cheating, manufacturing information etc isn't fair.
If someone wants to discuss past record or policies or actual factual things, about Biden or anyone else, that'd be fair and different.
If there was any evidence, I would say okay there appears to be some evidence here etc...but I have yet to see any.
As I mentioned before, some research shows constant interrupting and attacking can have an affect on someone with a stutter in those moments. It doesn't mean that person doesn't have mental acuity. It just means that he or she has a stutter and someone is trying to exploit that for personal gain.
Muddying the waters is an intentional strategy to sow doubt. It has been a frequent effective Trump strategy on a variety of topics. Make something up, repeat it endlessly, and some people might believe it because either they want to, or they don't take the time to learn differently.
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Biden is down 46k votes in Georgia, 1%.(I have heard it is now 36k down but need to take a look soon.)
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The conventional wisdom when JBiden debated PRyan in 2016 was that Ryan was going to clean Biden’s clock. He did not. Biden fared quite well. But there was never any mention, that I recall, of any stuttering issues in his entire career until this year.
And I believe he will be up to the task. God willing.
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Is he ok? I was just thinking about his insane rants a few days ago and worried he may have had a stroke/aneurism/heart attack none of which seem unlikely with how tightly he was wound up. Even if Trump pulls it out I'm worried Guru might not be there to see it.
I hope you, MU82 and Jockey are here on Election Night, I will be, and if things go as i hope/think they will...My presence will be WELL known, believe me. There will be NO mercy, none. :D
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Has Biden suffered cognitive decline? Is he just fine? I have no idea.
But I do know this: I would rather have a humane and well–intentioned statesman in the office than a smooth-talking sociopath.
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Here's the thing, confusing Biden's occasional stutter with cognitive decline was and is an intentional strategic tactic by some opponents in multiple parties.
For me it is about being fair. Lying, stealing, cheating, manufacturing information etc isn't fair.
If someone wants to discuss past record or policies or actual factual things, about Biden or anyone else, that'd be fair and different.
If there was any evidence, I would say okay there appears to be some evidence here etc...but I have yet to see any.
As I mentioned before, some research shows constant interrupting and attacking can have an affect on someone with a stutter in those moments. It doesn't mean that person doesn't have mental acuity. It just means that he or she has a stutter and someone is trying to exploit that for personal gain.
Muddying the waters is an intentional strategy to sow doubt. It has been a frequent effective Trump strategy on a variety of topics. Make something up, repeat it endlessly, and some people might believe it because either they want to, or they don't take the time to learn differently.
I agree wholeheartedly. Obviously Trump knows he has a stutter and instead of acknowledging it he tries to expose it and then explain it away as Joe losing his cognitive ability. My question is whether your average person even knows he deals with a stutter. My honest guess is that most people don’t even know it. So when he does sometimes struggle to get a certain thought out they could be viewing it with a different mindset.
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Biden now down only 196k in Pennsylvania. It does not appear Pennsylvania is going to be all that close in the end, or as close as some of the others.
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It's probably a combination of both, he's definitely had some "senior moments" but he also has a stutter which is likely under a microscope as well to pile on evidence that senior moments are actually full on cognitive decline
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Do you own a Feel the Bern bumper sticker, by chance? That is, after all, where the "Biden is in cognitive decline" stuff originated. Not very nice of the Bernie Bros, but they're the MAGA cap wearers of the Left, right?
Anyhow, I know it's not as powerful evidence as your casual observers and YouTube videos, but there is this:
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump may call Joe Biden “sleepy,” but the former vice president’s physician states that the 77-year-old is in good health and nowhere near slowing down.
Dr. Kevin O’Connor of The George Washington University released a three-page medical summary of Biden's health on Tuesday at the request of his patient, in which he described Biden as a “healthy, vigorous, 77-year-old male, who is fit to successfully execute the duties of the Presidency to include those as Chief Executive, Head of State and Commander in Chief.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/blog/meet-press-blog-latest-news-analysis-data-driving-political-discussion-n988541/ncrd1103456#blogHeader
Nope, didn't vote for Bernie, and bumper stickers should be called chumper stickers because they make it easy to spot the chumps.
Curious that you believe the VP's doctor, but I doubt you believe Trump's doctor. Just sayin'.
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Just a bunch of white people in Detroit demanding officials stop counting mostly black people's votes.
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1324164998474727433
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I said I would look at various things you presented. You made the allegation, I didn't. That puts the burden of proof on you, not me. That is like saying "Such and such" ran a child trafficking ring out of the back of a pizzeria, Prove me wrong. It doesn't work that way.
Take Donald Trump. As I said he has multiple disorders. But take any random example. When Donald Trump says something such as Tim Apple, that is more likely because of a lack of preparation than lack of cognition or mental acuity, in that type of example. Things like that.
We can move on. By the way, I like the name Jack. I have had friends and relatives with that name. Jack, Jackie, Jackson. 👍
I'm not asking for the moon and the stars. Saying "Look, Jack" is just me imitating Biden. lol
Also, I've said they both are experiencing it.
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Just a bunch of white people in Detroit demanding officials stop counting mostly black people's votes.
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1324164998474727433
anti democracy
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Has Biden suffered cognitive decline? Is he just fine? I have no idea.
But I do know this: I would rather have a humane and well–intentioned statesman in the office than a smooth-talking sociopath.
Absolutely. Unequivocally. Just trying to call an apple an apple.
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Ha my favorite comment under the tweet is that they should start playing the national anthem on a loop so that the protesters will stand with their hands over their hearts.....
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Biden now down only 196k in Pennsylvania. It does not appear Pennsylvania is going to be all that close in the end, or as close as some of the others.
I hope that is true. I think Biden is still going to lose Arizona.
Pennsylvania would make that all moot.
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AZ and GA are both going to be razor thin, I wouldn't be surprised if both end up under a 10K difference. I think PA will by Biden by 80,000+ which would make the other two moot.
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I heard tonight, yesterday was the largest voter turnout since the 1900 election.
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AZ and GA are both going to be razor thin, I wouldn't be surprised if both end up under a 10K difference. I think PA will by Biden by 80,000+ which would make the other two moot.
This is my thinking also. For PA, the outstanding votes are all mail in. In PA, those have consistently went Biden by close to a 4-1 margin. That would be more than enough. It is trending like Michigan, where a seemingly huge margin was not only overcome, but blown away.
Georgia and Arizona is going to be close.
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Good read from The Atlantic. April 2020
What Joe Biden Can’t Bring Himself to Say
His verbal stumbles have voters worried about his mental fitness. Maybe they’d be more understanding if they knew he’s still fighting a stutter.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/joe-biden-stutter-profile/602401/
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If I were to pick a northeast+ republican gov that would be accepted by the broader country for president, I would go Sununu.
Back in the early 90s just after HW Bush lost, my friend and I were on prop flight from White Plains to DC. His dad was on our flight crunched into a seat with a briefcase wedged in there somehow too. We remarked how he"s probably missing Air Force One.
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Back in the early 90s just after HW Bush lost, my friend and I were on prop flight from White Plains to DC. His dad was on our flight crunched into a seat with a briefcase wedged in there somehow too. We remarked how he"s probably missing Air Force One.
Either speaker at my MU graduation (1990) or received an honorary degree. As you can tell I was in no shape to remember which one.
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This is my thinking also. For PA, the outstanding votes are all mail in. In PA, those have consistently went Biden by close to a 4-1 margin. That would be more than enough. It is trending like Michigan, where a seemingly huge margin was not only overcome, but blown away.
Georgia and Arizona is going to be close.
From what's been reported, Biden has won the last 600,000 Pennsylvania votes by 50 points. He needs what's left by 22 points to win the state. So, the trend is there, but we'll see.
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418K ballots remain in Arizona. Biden up 79,173 votes.
340k left in Maricopa County (currently Biden +5, but tightening)
46k in Pima County (Biden +21)
18k in Yuma County (Trump +8)
<1k in La Paz County (Trump +37)
13k in Coconino County ( Biden +28)
Still winnable for Trump, but tough. Would need nearly 60 percent of what remains, and most of what remains are in blue/purple counties.
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418K ballots remain in Arizona. Biden up 79,173 votes.
340k left in Maricopa County (currently Biden +5, but tightening)
46k in Pima County (Biden +21)
18k in Yuma County (Trump +8)
<1k in La Paz County (Trump +37)
13k in Coconino County ( Biden +28)
Still winnable for Trump, but tough. Would need nearly 60 percent of what remains, and most of what remains are in blue/purple counties.
One of the reasons I've worried about Arizona is that a lot are using the bolded logic in making the call earlier. That in combination with them being "mail in" votes.
I think these are different than the rest of the places. I think these are last minute GOP "get out the vote" canvassing mail in votes, when the GOP really started to worry they didn't have the numbers. Because of that they won't necessarily follow the county current totals. Essentially, the opposite of the DEM early early votes in PA and Michigan.
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Biden needs to win the remaining 800k Pennsylvania votes by a 22% margin. He has won the most recent 600k votes by a 40% margin.
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Fox News and AP have declared Biden the winner in AZ. I think it will be tough for Trump to pull ahead there.
Biden Just needs NV and then PA, GA and NC don't matter.
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One of the reasons I've worried about Arizona is that a lot are using the bolded logic in making the call earlier. That in combination with them being "mail in" votes.
I think these are different than the rest of the places. I think these are last minute GOP "get out the vote" canvassing mail in votes, when the GOP really started to worry they didn't have the numbers. Because of that they won't necessarily follow the county current totals. Essentially, the opposite of the DEM early early votes in PA and Michigan.
Agree. If they rest of the outstanding votes go as the first batch, Trump probably wins. Pima is more Democratic than Maricopa, though, so if those votes are < 60% for Trump, then Maricopa will need to go to Trump at a higher rate than the first batch, maybe 62%.
Hoping Biden pulls ahead in PA overnight and we don't have to worry about AZ.
I am becoming pessimistic about AZ at almost exactly the same rate as I am becoming optimistic about GA.
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One of the reasons I've worried about Arizona is that a lot are using the bolded logic in making the call earlier. That in combination with them being "mail in" votes.
I think these are different than the rest of the places. I think these are last minute GOP "get out the vote" canvassing mail in votes, when the GOP really started to worry they didn't have the numbers. Because of that they won't necessarily follow the county current totals. Essentially, the opposite of the DEM early early votes in PA and Michigan.
I get what you're saying and you may very well be right. That said, the last vote dump in Maricopa tonight was 57-43 Trump. As good as that is for him, even if that trend continues, it's not enough, especially with the votes left in Pima and Coconino.
Trump can win, but it’s tough.
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Fulton County batch update 10 minutes ago....
https://twitter.com/BrendanKeefe/status/1324187070198353920?s=19
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I doubt that Trump wins in AZ. The Latino(Mexican-American) vote showed up big in AZ. I would love it if Mexican Americans and loyal McCain voters cost Trump AZ and the general election. That would be fricking karma.
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Good for the Steelers:
@PaulRRigney: At the Allegheny County ballot counting site here in Pittsburgh, I can report that the Pittsburgh Steelers are buying dinner for all the workers here this evening.
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Maybe I spoke too soon, not sure how Biden can win now.
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1324175651515949056
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I get what you're saying and you may very well be right. That said, the last vote dump in Maricopa tonight was 57-43 Trump. As good as that is for him, even if that trend continues, it's not enough, especially with the votes left in Pima and Coconino.
Trump can win, but it’s tough.
Last batch was
43,966 Trump 59.18%
30,322 Biden 40.82%
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Count the votes here, stop the counting there,... Fox news is great one day, chants of Fox News Sucks the next ....pick a lane, ...pick a lane:
https://twitter.com/KimPowellTV/status/1324185235743932419?s=19
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1324194510046289920?s=19
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Maybe I spoke too soon, not sure how Biden can win now.
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1324175651515949056
might as well try it all eh
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Count the votes here, stop the counting there,... Fox news is great one day, chants of Fox News Sucks the next ....pick a lane, ...pick a lane:
https://twitter.com/KimPowellTV/status/1324185235743932419?s=19
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1324194510046289920?s=19
Shameless hypocrisy is a Republican strong suit.
(https://www.politicususa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/mitch-mcconnell-turtle-power.jpg)
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Shameless hypocrisy is a Republican strong suit.
(https://www.politicususa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/mitch-mcconnell-turtle-power.jpg)
I also have the side by side chants version:
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1324200240694648834?s=19
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What is interesting about Pennsylvania, is it doesn't seem to matter what county the mail in votes are coming from. Biden is winning them 4:1 even in Trump counties.
Likely an artifact of focusing on getting out the in person vote. The only difference is the number of mail in votes, margin seems to be consistent.
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Fulton County batch update 10 minutes ago....
https://twitter.com/BrendanKeefe/status/1324187070198353920?s=19
another Fulton County batch update:
https://twitter.com/brendankeefe/status/1324207280443793409
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another Fulton County batch update:
https://twitter.com/brendankeefe/status/1324207280443793409
Getting closer every time they report new vote counts in Georgia...
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What is interesting about Pennsylvania, is it doesn't seem to matter what county the mail in votes are coming from. Biden is winning them 4:1 even in Trump counties.
Likely an artifact of focusing on getting out the in person vote. The only difference is the number of mail in votes, margin seems to be consistent.
Sources saying Biden could win PA by 200K+ when all votes are counted.
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another Fulton County batch update:
https://twitter.com/brendankeefe/status/1324207280443793409
Confused by these updates as the numbers haven't shifted that much.
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Confused by these updates as the numbers haven't shifted that much.
He is getting his numbers on the ground from the Georgia Secretary of State in person, in Fulton County, in person. He is not watching a ticker.
He also says all Fulton County numbers excluding adjudicated ballots will be in by 3am. 17k left. But Gwinnett and DeKalb not likely in before tomorrow.
Apparently the state staff that reports the numbers online went home for the night. So he is saying he has numbers online people don’t.
We’ll see.
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He is getting his numbers on the ground from the Georgia Secretary of State in person, in Fulton County, in person. He is not watching a ticker.
He also says all Fulton County numbers excluding adjudicated ballots will be in by 3am. 17k left. But Gwinnett and DeKalb not likely in before tomorrow.
Apparently the state staff that reports the numbers online went home for the night. So he is saying he has numbers online people don’t.
We’ll see.
Dekalb is now done. Don't know if the votes are in the totals. Thinking there isn't enough runway to flip Georgia.
Looking at the outstanding ballots in PA. The majority of outstanding ballots are either in contested counties or Trump counties. For Biden to pull it out in PA, it appears he is going to have to hope that the majority of mail in ballots go his way regardless of county.
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Dekalb is now done. Don't know if the votes are in the totals. Thinking there isn't enough runway to flip Georgia.
Looking at the outstanding ballots in PA. The majority of outstanding ballots are either in contested counties or Trump counties. For Biden to pull it out in PA, it appears he is going to have to hope that the majority of mail in ballots go his way regardless of county.
The AJC is reporting 23k lead for Trump with over 80k ti 99k ballots left to count in Atlanta and Savannah, strong locations for Biden.
Many of the ballots remaining to be counted in Pennsylvania are strong locations for Biden, including Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and some others. Biden may win Pennsylvania with Philadelphia alone. Many are predicting a very comfortable 3% Biden win in Pennsylvania.
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It appears everything is in in GA from what I can see and Trump held by .4%
So NV and PA will decide it.
EDIT: Well, the map I was looking at showed 100% reporting, but I am now seeing there are still votes left to count. Not sure which one is accurate.
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NY Times Morning Brief:
The president versus democracy
This is a dark and dangerous moment for American democracy.
A sitting president has spent months telling lies about non-existent voter fraud. Now that his re-election bid is in deep trouble — but with the outcome still uncertain — he has unleashed a new torrent of falsehoods claiming that the other side cheated. He has demanded the Supreme Court intervene to decide the election in his favor.
His supporters are staging protests in Arizona, Michigan, Nevada and Pennsylvania meant to interfere with legitimate vote counting. In Phoenix, some have showed up at the State Capitol with guns (as you can see in this short video taken by my colleague Simon Romero).
The worst democratic outcome — in which judges appointed by the president’s political party intervene to overrule the apparent will of voters — seems likely to be avoided. The Supreme Court has shown no signs of halting vote counts, and Joe Biden’s leads in the decisive states may end up being large enough to avoid the election hinging on the sort of ballot-counting minutiae (like hanging chads) that decided the 2000 result in Florida.
But President Trump’s actions are still causing significant damage. They undermine his supporters’ faith in the country’s government. They also undermine the credibility of the United States around the world. And they force election officials, journalists and social-media platforms to choose between telling the truth and sounding nonpartisan; it is impossible to do both about Trump’s election claims.
In the simplest terms, the president of the United States is attacking American democracy in an effort to remain in office.
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.
[/quote]It appears everything is in in GA from what I can see and Trump held by .4%
So NV and PA will decide it.
25k to go with a 18,540 spread. Done by noon.
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.
25k to go with a 18,540 spread. Done by noon.
Friendly reminder that the Georgia Sec of State has downplayed the quantity if remaining votes at various points. He is very conservative with his numbers. This says 50k plus votes left. I am seeing multiple places saying there are way more than 25k votes left to be counted.
https://twitter.com/bluestein/status/1324331236198932480?s=19
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About 51K ballots left in Georgia, most in Fulton (Atlanta) and Chatham (Savannah) counties.
https://www.ajc.com/politics/about-200000-absentee-ballots-still-need-to-be-counted-in-georgia/BYGJAXV5FRBGBAMA6JPIC7ZL34/?D
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About 51K ballots left in Georgia, most in Fulton (Atlanta) and Chatham (Savannah) counties.
https://www.ajc.com/politics/about-200000-absentee-ballots-still-need-to-be-counted-in-georgia/BYGJAXV5FRBGBAMA6JPIC7ZL34/?D
Yes. (Biden says it is even higher over 70k)
The number discrepancy seems to be votes counted vs votes reported.
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Shameless hypocrisy is a Republican strong suit.
(https://www.politicususa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/mitch-mcconnell-turtle-power.jpg)
Why do we still have to deal with him. He's the main agitator of disfunction.
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Not a shocker, Georgia Secretary of State corrects his votes left number:
https://twitter.com/bluestein/status/1324346056499486720?s=19
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Why do we still have to deal with him. He's the main agitator of disfunction.
Well, we have to deal with him because the Republican controlled senate chose him as SML. Quickest way to get Mitch out of power is to vote out Republican senators. But that is too hard, apparently.
Mitch McConnell catches all the heat because he isn't afraid of the criticism. Keep in mind he serves as SML because the other Republican senators have chosen him. We can blame Mitch all we want, but he merely represents all of them. If they wanted to or were pressured enough, they could relegate him to being just another senator. But they want him in power. It allows them to dip responsibility for his actions. It's why you see senators like Romney, Collins, and Murkowski appear to be 'bipartisan' when they aren't. When their votes don't tip the scales in the favor of things (SCOTUS confirmations especially) they're allowed this appearance. But make no mistake, if their votes are needed, Mitch will whip the votes.
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CNN is reporting 140K left in Philadelphia and 28K in Bucks County (suburban Philly). Mostly mail-ins in both places.
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Mitch is the "bad cop." He will take all the sh*t because he knows his seat is safe, and doesn't really care.
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Mitch is the "bad cop." He will take all the sh*t because he knows his seat is safe, and doesn't really care.
Correct, and he proved it on Tuesday. Despite Democrats throwing piles of cash at some of these senate races, they came up woefully short.
Almost as if candidates matter more than money! Money helps, but if the candidate's platform is, "I'm not that guy" then they're going to lose.
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Much of today’s Mitch McConnell types are often traced back to Newt Gingrich in the 90’s.
So what is Newt up to during the election?
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Well, Trump was right about "anarchy" in American cities.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/us/politics/trump-supporters-protest-arizona.html
PHOENIX — More than 150 supporters of President Trump, some of them armed, gathered outside the Maricopa County election office on Wednesday and chanted “Count the vote,” as officials did just that under the protection of sheriff’s deputies.
Early results in Arizona show Joseph R. Biden Jr. in the lead, but Trump supporters believe that could change as the last votes are counted.
Keely Varvel, chief deputy recorder for Maricopa County, said counting would continue despite the protest. “We are still planning to finish up our scheduled ballot processing work and report out more results tonight,” Ms. Varvel said.
Without citing evidence, some Republicans have accused election officials of manipulating the results to indicate that Mr. Trump is losing in Maricopa County, which is home to about 60 percent of Arizona’s population.
“The only way Biden can win Arizona is through fraud,” said Jim Williams, 67, a welder who attended the protest. “I won’t accept a Biden victory. I don’t want to live under Communist rule.”
Many in the crowd were holding Trump flags, and numerous people were wielding AR-15 rifles and other firearms. Some also chanted “Fox News sucks,” reflecting their displeasure with the network’s decision on Tuesday to call Arizona for Mr. Biden, a move that some other news outlets later followed.
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Georgia voters sure seem to remember 2018:
https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/1324115650177048577?s=19
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A couple of follow-up thoughts to Tuesday's elections:
1) The lawsuits need to stop. Judges need to ask a simple set of questions: "Do you have any credible evidence of widespread fraud that you can present to this court right now?" The lawyers will hem and haw but if the judge is firm, their answer will be "no." The second is, "Do you have any credible evidence of a violation of a voting law by a commissioner of elections in our state?" Again, hemming and hawing will be the order of the day but, the answer likely will be "no." In both cases, just dismiss the damn lawsuit and go home.
2) Believe it or not, Florida had it right on election day. After the disastrous 2016 mid-term election, Governor Ron DeSantis used his constitutional authority in our state to fire the Palm Beach County Commissioner of Elections. Broward County cleaned up their act. As a result, everything went off without a hitch. Our races were close but by 11:30 p.m., Tuesday, we knew results. What happened was that Florida counted ballots as they came in. Our County Election Commissioners allowed you to go on their website to see if they had received a ballot and if it had been counted. If it had not by election day, you go vote. Second, in most media markets, there were PSAs from County election officials outlining the rules. Those started back in May and have been broadcast ever since. Early voting started in mid-October and ended Sunday. The procedures at the polls were clear and well broadcast. Oh, and you were required to bring a government issue photo ID which had to be presented to a voting official.
3) To Brother Hoops and others who had advocated that Mr. Biden was not suffering from diminished capacity, I sure hope you're right. In fact, I pray you are. We elected a man for four years and his supporters deserve the right to have his wisdom, his visions and his hopes executed. I'm not a fan of the platform on which Mr. Biden ran and as a former Amtrak finance professional, I had some real problems with "Amtrak Joe", but assuming the expectations bear out, he will be my President. I think he's a decent man who truly cares about our country. As a Republican, I'm confident that if Mr. Biden is elected President, he'll be wheeling and dealing with the Republicans in the Senate. I think that will be good for our country.
4) If President Trump loses, and I think he will, he needs to set into the west. He needs to head down here for Mar Lago and enjoy life as a retired President. Write another darn book if you will, but do what honorable former Presidents do -- give your successor a chance. Recommended role model: George W. Bush or Jimmy Carter. The latter had a tough loss to a ideological opposite but he showed a great deal of dignity and class and exemplified the best of what our country is about.
OK, I know Item 4 aint going to happen! Item 1 probably is a lost cause too, but I can hope we rise above bitterness in this country and do something profound.
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Georgia voters sure seem to remember 2018:
https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/1324115650177048577?s=19
They also ousted the county DA who declined to prosecute Ahmaud Arbery's killers.
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PHOENIX — More than 150 supporters of President Trump, some of them armed, gathered outside the Maricopa County election office on Wednesday and chanted “Count the vote,” as officials did just that under the protection of sheriff’s deputies.
So Trump supporters are chanting "count the vote," while Trump is suing to get vote counts stopped in PA and GA. And I'll bet none of them see the irony....
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They also ousted the county DA who declined to prosecute Ahmaud Arbery's killers.
Yep, I saw that one too.
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Well, Trump was right about "anarchy" in American cities.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/us/politics/trump-supporters-protest-arizona.html
PHOENIX — More than 150 supporters of President Trump, some of them armed, gathered outside the Maricopa County election office on Wednesday and chanted “Count the vote,” as officials did just that under the protection of sheriff’s deputies.
Early results in Arizona show Joseph R. Biden Jr. in the lead, but Trump supporters believe that could change as the last votes are counted.
Keely Varvel, chief deputy recorder for Maricopa County, said counting would continue despite the protest. “We are still planning to finish up our scheduled ballot processing work and report out more results tonight,” Ms. Varvel said.
Without citing evidence, some Republicans have accused election officials of manipulating the results to indicate that Mr. Trump is losing in Maricopa County, which is home to about 60 percent of Arizona’s population.
“The only way Biden can win Arizona is through fraud,” said Jim Williams, 67, a welder who attended the protest. “I won’t accept a Biden victory. I don’t want to live under Communist rule.”
Many in the crowd were holding Trump flags, and numerous people were wielding AR-15 rifles and other firearms. Some also chanted “Fox News sucks,” reflecting their displeasure with the network’s decision on Tuesday to call Arizona for Mr. Biden, a move that some other news outlets later followed.
Even though Arizona is an open carry state, you would think legislators would pass some sort of law to keep guns away from polling places, schools etc.
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A couple of follow-up thoughts to Tuesday's elections:
1) The lawsuits need to stop. Judges need to ask a simple set of questions: "Do you have any credible evidence of widespread fraud that you can present to this court right now?" The lawyers will hem and haw but if the judge is firm, their answer will be "no." The second is, "Do you have any credible evidence of a violation of a voting law by a commissioner of elections in our state?" Again, hemming and hawing will be the order of the day but, the answer likely will be "no." In both cases, just dismiss the damn lawsuit and go home.
2) Believe it or not, Florida had it right on election day. After the disastrous 2016 mid-term election, Governor Ron DeSantis used his constitutional authority in our state to fire the Palm Beach County Commissioner of Elections. Broward County cleaned up their act. As a result, everything went off without a hitch. Our races were close but by 11:30 p.m., Tuesday, we knew results. What happened was that Florida counted ballots as they came in. Our County Election Commissioners allowed you to go on their website to see if they had received a ballot and if it had been counted. If it had not by election day, you go vote. Second, in most media markets, there were PSAs from County election officials outlining the rules. Those started back in May and have been broadcast ever since. Early voting started in mid-October and ended Sunday. The procedures at the polls were clear and well broadcast. Oh, and you were required to bring a government issue photo ID which had to be presented to a voting official.
3) To Brother Hoops and others who had advocated that Mr. Biden was not suffering from diminished capacity, I sure hope you're right. In fact, I pray you are. We elected a man for four years and his supporters deserve the right to have his wisdom, his visions and his hopes executed. I'm not a fan of the platform on which Mr. Biden ran and as a former Amtrak finance professional, I had some real problems with "Amtrak Joe", but assuming the expectations bear out, he will be my President. I think he's a decent man who truly cares about our country. As a Republican, I'm confident that if Mr. Biden is elected President, he'll be wheeling and dealing with the Republicans in the Senate. I think that will be good for our country.
4) If President Trump loses, and I think he will, he needs to set into the west. He needs to head down here for Mar Lago and enjoy life as a retired President. Write another darn book if you will, but do what honorable former Presidents do -- give your successor a chance. Recommended role model: George W. Bush or Jimmy Carter. The latter had a tough loss to a ideological opposite but he showed a great deal of dignity and class and exemplified the best of what our country is about.
OK, I know Item 4 aint going to happen! Item 1 probably is a lost cause too, but I can hope we rise above bitterness in this country and do something profound.
Tell your Republican friends that in several states Republicans have been the reason votes have not been counted as they come in. That is a Republican policy in several states. I agree with you that counting votes as they come in is the better way to go. 👍
(I will repeat my disclaimer again, not that it matters, that I don't personally believe in political parties.)
The other thing I would point out is misrepresentation of people's positions. Biden, Harris, Clinton, Obama, etc....on down the line are Moderate Centrist people. Many Presidents are this. Too often I see partisan talking points. As Bill Parcells said, "You are what your record says you are."
Many of course believe they have been and will be waaaaaaaaay too conservative moving forward, especially Biden and Harris. I am well aware there has been much spin and revisionist history that may say otherwise.
The big question many have for Biden is can he, be a bit more progressive on some key things knowing overall he will be what he is, a moderate, conservative Democrat. He will get other types of supporters, fellow moderates etc...but that is the big question for him.
I have yet to see you say a single thing about Donald Trump's mental acuity despite repeated ly bringing it up about Biden. It comes across as if you are simply regurgitating manufactured Fox News talking points.
It isn't simply Biden's job to bring people together. Any time Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Donald Trump etc...want to take part in the process as well, that'd be great too.
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A short time ago, Donald Trump tweeted "STOP THE COUNT!"
If the count stopped now, Joe Biden wins.
Such a stable genius.
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OK, I know Item 4 aint going to happen! Item 1 probably is a lost cause too, but I can hope we rise above bitterness in this country and do something profound.
I wish I could share your optimism, but I don't think 3 is going happen either. There is no evidence that McConnell is willing to compromise on anything. Unless by compromise you mean Biden pass legislation that McConnell has written.
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Amy Gardner
@AmyEGardner
UPDATE: 61k votes are outstanding in Georgia. 17,157 from Chatham; 11,200 from Fulton; 7,338 from Gwinnett; 4,713 from Forsyth; 3,641 from Harris; 1,797 from Laurens; 1,552 from Putnam; 1,202 from Sumter; 700 from Cobb. FEAST
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Amy Gardner
@AmyEGardner
UPDATE: 61k votes are outstanding in Georgia. 17,157 from Chatham; 11,200 from Fulton; 7,338 from Gwinnett; 4,713 from Forsyth; 3,641 from Harris; 1,797 from Laurens; 1,552 from Putnam; 1,202 from Sumter; 700 from Cobb. FEAST
So if the 61K is correct, and the 18,144 vote different reported by the AP tracker is correct, that would mean that Biden needs to win ~78% of the remaining vote correct? Is that doable?
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So if the 61K is correct, and the 18,144 vote different reported by the AP tracker is correct, that would mean that Biden needs to win ~78% of the remaining vote correct? Is that doable?
He's been winning ~80% with the last couple updates but it's a tall task to expect.
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So if the 61K is correct, and the 18,144 vote different reported by the AP tracker is correct, that would mean that Biden needs to win ~78% of the remaining vote correct? Is that doable?
Yes, but it’ll be a close and a recount will happen.
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Wanted to check in and congratulate those dirty democrats for stealing the presidency. Luckily for us, they were too incompetent to steal the senate or any state legislature. I’d like to congratulate them for also buying off republican secretary of states who keep counting. It’s one of the most incredible frauds in the history of this country
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So if the 61K is correct, and the 18,144 vote different reported by the AP tracker is correct, that would mean that Biden needs to win ~78% of the remaining vote correct? Is that doable?
68% of 61k would be 41,000 to 20,000.
70% of 50k would be 35,000 to 15,000.
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Wanted to check in and congratulate those dirty democrats for stealing the presidency. Luckily for us, they were too incompetent to steal the senate or any state legislature. I’d like to congratulate them for also buying off republican secretary of states who keep counting. It’s one of the most incredible frauds in the history of this country
Uncle Rico is evil and must be destroyed
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I have yet to see you say a single thing about Donald Trump's mental acuity despite repeatedly bringing it up about Biden. It comes across as if you are simply regurgitating manufactured Fox News talking points.
OK, fair point on The Trumpster. Not sure where his mental acuity is, but I have said many times in private he's a narcissist. His ego has run amuck and probably is the single biggest factor in his perilous hold on the Presidency. A more balanced candidate would have shown empathy and had the courage to reach beyond himself. Had he thrown away his Twitter account, stopped the verbal harassment of people and focused on things that didn't have orange hair -- aka, his record -- he might be basking in the afterglow of an election well done.
One thing the Donald never learned was that when the President says something, it's very different than when anyone else says something. When a President fires back at his critics, he gives them legitimacy. When a President accuses someone of a crime or makes judgment on their character, he causes rash judgment and harsh backlash that's largely unnecessary. That's why the dignity of the office is so important and why many of us grimaced when President Trump tweeted.
President Nixon figured that out when he publicly commented on the Charles Manson trial and led defense attorneys to ask for a mistrial.
Another thing Trump never understood but his predecessors and Mr. Biden did -- a President and Presidential candidates never make direct accusations. They let their henchmen do it. President Obama, for example, never accused anyone (to my knowledge) of being racist. But his supporters and his "henchmen" weren't afraid to. In fact, the old beer summit President Obama had was a brilliant move designed to separate the President from that kind of ugliness. President Trump never did this.
Oh, and one other thing. I RARELY watch Fox News. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC either. None of them are objective.
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Wanted to check in and congratulate those dirty democrats for stealing the presidency. Luckily for us, they were too incompetent to steal the senate or any state legislature. I’d like to congratulate them for also buying off republican secretary of states who keep counting. It’s one of the most incredible frauds in the history of this country
It’s been very civil in this thread, let’s keep it that way yea?
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OK, fair point on The Trumpster. Not sure where his mental acuity is, but I have said many times in private he's a narcissist. His ego has run amuck and probably is the single biggest factor in his perilous hold on the Presidency. A more balanced candidate would have shown empathy and had the courage to reach beyond himself. Had he thrown away his Twitter account, stopped the verbal harassment of people and focused on things that didn't have orange hair -- aka, his record -- he might be basking in the afterglow of an election well done.
One thing the Donald never learned was that when the President says something, it's very different than when anyone else says something. When a President fires back at his critics, he gives them legitimacy. When a President accuses someone of a crime or makes judgment on their character, he causes rash judgment and harsh backlash that's largely unnecessary. That's why the dignity of the office is so important and why many of us grimaced when President Trump tweeted.
President Nixon figured that out when he publicly commented on the Charles Manson trial and led defense attorneys to ask for a mistrial.
Another thing Trump never understood but his predecessors and Mr. Biden did -- a President and Presidential candidates never make direct acquisitions. They let their henchmen do it. President Obama, for example, never accused anyone (to my knowledge) of being racist. But his supporters and his "henchmen" weren't afraid to. In fact, the old beer summit President Obama had was a brilliant move designed to separate the President from that kind of ugliness. President Trump never did this.
Oh, and one other thing. I RARELY watch Fox News. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC either. None of them are objective.
BBC?
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OK, fair point on The Trumpster. Not sure where his mental acuity is, but I have said many times in private he's a narcissist. His ego has run amuck and probably is the single biggest factor in his perilous hold on the Presidency. A more balanced candidate would have shown empathy and had the courage to reach beyond himself. Had he thrown away his Twitter account, stopped the verbal harassment of people and focused on things that didn't have orange hair -- aka, his record -- he might be basking in the afterglow of an election well done.
One thing the Donald never learned was that when the President says something, it's very different than when anyone else says something. When a President fires back at his critics, he gives them legitimacy. When a President accuses someone of a crime or makes judgment on their character, he causes rash judgment and harsh backlash that's largely unnecessary. That's why the dignity of the office is so important and why many of us grimaced when President Trump tweeted.
President Nixon figured that out when he publicly commented on the Charles Manson trial and led defense attorneys to ask for a mistrial.
Another thing Trump never understood but his predecessors and Mr. Biden did -- a President and Presidential candidates never make direct acquisitions. They let their henchmen do it. President Obama, for example, never accused anyone (to my knowledge) of being racist. But his supporters and his "henchmen" weren't afraid to. In fact, the old beer summit President Obama had was a brilliant move designed to separate the President from that kind of ugliness. President Trump never did this.
Oh, and one other thing. I RARELY watch Fox News. I don't watch CNN, MSNBC either. None of them are objective.
Fair enough. What I would say about media is to break every single individual person down individually. That is way too broad of a brush. Top of head example...Take MSNBC/NBC.....Lester Holt has been a long time Registered Republican, Chuck Todd is king of both sides. Nicolle Wallace is former Communications Director for GW Bush and now has a two hour show and lots of other on air times. Michael Steele is former Chair of Republican Party and he is very conservative. We could go on and on here. Andrea Mitchell has been married a long time to Alan Greenspan, a very conservative Republican former Chair of Federal Reserve. That is just one top of head media outlet. Joe Scarborough is a firmer Republican Congressman from Alabama. These people all have shows all day long on MSNBC or NBC etc...
So whether it is a publication or tv station etc...my advice would be to take each person and situation on an individual basis.
These broad brushes are often super incorrect. Go to a wide variety of people and places for info.
I don't want to get off track but intentionally keeping kids from their parents only for kicks, Being Racist, Xenophobic, Mysogonistic etc...being this way for many decades.....is a non-starter for many people. It is disqualifying, as is lying tens kf thousands of times and so on. Some people say well if you look past that...etc ..well....no.
There will be more QAnon Republicans in the House in 2021 than African Americans. Wow. Long long long way to go there. Good luck.
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It’s been very civil in this thread, let’s keep it that way yea?
I thought he was making a joke...?
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So we've often heard the line about "there are bad people on both sides" very often. Most often from conservatives trying to minimize actions taken by far right extremists.
Honest question, I promise I'm not being snarky, are there any liberal leaning groups out there demanding to stop the count in places where Biden is winning? The fact that there are people demanding that legally cast votes not be counted so their candidate can win is terrifying to me. I understand we can disagree on a lot of key issues but I thought the democratic process was something both sides firmly endorsed.
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68% of 61k would be 41,000 to 20,000.
70% of 50k would be 35,000 to 15,000.
I have heard 60k outstanding which would mean Biden needs 65%. If it is 50k, he would need 68%. Both are very doable for Biden bases on how he has been doing so far.
(I believe that math is correct)
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Sources saying Biden could win PA by 200K+ when all votes are counted.
I hope this is right. I'm concerned by how many of the remaining ballots are in Trump counties.
I think Arizona and Georgia will end up narrowly for Trump. PA is going to be key.
Now Pittsburg area stopping counting because of 30,000 ballots hung up in legal proceedings.
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Biden just picked up about +3,290 in Fulton County (4,633-1,364 margin from about 6,000 new votes).
About 5,000 votes still to be counted there.
Trump lead now below 15K in Georgia.
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NPR
@NPR
·
23m
Estimated number of uncounted votes left, as of 9:30 a.m. ET:
• Georgia: 50,000 uncounted; Trump leads by 18,148
• North Carolina: 348,000; Trump leads by 76,701
• Nevada: 398,000; Biden leads by 7,647
• Pennsylvania: 784,000; Trump leads by 164,418
I guess I am not fully on-board with the Biden optimism here, especially since his lead in Arizona is shrinking.
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NPR
@NPR
·
23m
Estimated number of uncounted votes left, as of 9:30 a.m. ET:
• Georgia: 50,000 uncounted; Trump leads by 18,148
• North Carolina: 348,000; Trump leads by 76,701
• Nevada: 398,000; Biden leads by 7,647
• Pennsylvania: 784,000; Trump leads by 164,418
I guess I am not fully on-board with the Biden optimism here, especially since his lead in Arizona is shrinking.
Trumps lead in GA has shrunk to 14.8k since this tweet but I'm in agreement. Especially given how many ballots are frozen in Pittsburg due to legal challenges.
*14.2k via Fox
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NPR
@NPR
·
23m
Estimated number of uncounted votes left, as of 9:30 a.m. ET:
• Georgia: 50,000 uncounted; Trump leads by 18,148
• North Carolina: 348,000; Trump leads by 76,701
• Nevada: 398,000; Biden leads by 7,647
• Pennsylvania: 784,000; Trump leads by 164,418
I guess I am not fully on-board with the Biden optimism here, especially since his lead in Arizona is shrinking.
I obviously see the logic behind why Biden has a strong position.
But when I dive into the numbers, I see major cause for concern. The numbers suggest that he will run out of runway in PA, and Georgia. Trump has plenty of runway in Arizona. That would be enough.
Now the professionals are seeing places like PA differently, so I'm hopeful the pros know what is going on. But the pros also had polls saying a landslide for Biden.
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NPR
@NPR
·
23m
Estimated number of uncounted votes left, as of 9:30 a.m. ET:
• Georgia: 50,000 uncounted; Trump leads by 18,148
• North Carolina: 348,000; Trump leads by 76,701
• Nevada: 398,000; Biden leads by 7,647
• Pennsylvania: 784,000; Trump leads by 164,418
I guess I am not fully on-board with the Biden optimism here, especially since his lead in Arizona is shrinking.
Jake Tapper
@jaketapper
·
2m
Updated data: Biden lead over Trump in Nevada expands from 7,647 to 12,042
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I obviously see the logic behind why Biden has a strong position.
But when I dive into the numbers, I see major cause for concern. The numbers suggest that he will run out of runway in PA, and Georgia. Trump has plenty of runway in Arizona. That would be enough.
Now the professionals are seeing places like PA differently, so I'm hopeful the pros know what is going on. But the pros also had polls saying a landslide for Biden.
I don't see any numbers suggesting he'll run out of runway in PA. I agree on GA. I just don't think there are enough votes left there.
In PA, there are 784K votes left with a deficit of 165K. 62% (486,080) to 38% (297,920) of the remaining vote would put Biden ahead by ~20K votes. He is hovering around 73% of the vote in every update.
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@RalstonReports: NEWS: First batch of new votes from NV, from Clark, shows Biden lead up to 12K.
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@RalstonReports: NEWS: First batch of new votes from NV, from Clark, shows Biden lead up to 12K.
Small gain for trump it's down to 11k
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I don't see any numbers suggesting he'll run out of runway in PA. I agree on GA. I just don't think there are enough votes left there.
In PA, there are 784K votes left with a deficit of 165K. 62% (486,080) to 38% (297,920) of the remaining vote would put Biden ahead by ~20K votes. He is hovering around 73% of the vote in every update.
My concern come from this dashboard.
https://www.votespa.com/About-Elections/Pages/Counting-Dashboard.aspx
Still a lot of votes to count in places like Cumberland County, which is a Trump stronghold. Also, Philly burbs where at best it's a push. So the question is whether Biden can keep running the margins.
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My concern come from this dashboard.
https://www.votespa.com/About-Elections/Pages/Counting-Dashboard.aspx
Still a lot of votes to count in places like Cumberland County, which is a Trump stronghold. Also, Philly burbs where at best it's a push. So the question is whether Biden can keep running the margins.
Take into consideration the early/mail votes will still run 70% Biden, even from Trump strongholds.
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Trump's lead in GA down to 14k.
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My concern come from this dashboard.
https://www.votespa.com/About-Elections/Pages/Counting-Dashboard.aspx
Still a lot of votes to count in places like Cumberland County, which is a Trump stronghold. Also, Philly burbs where at best it's a push. So the question is whether Biden can keep running the margins.
From everything I'm hearing, there are still tens of thousands of votes to count in Philadelphia and perhaps as many as 30K in Alleghany (but they need to be reviewed, so who knows).
Trump does do well in Cumberland County, but are you assuming the mail-in ballots there are going to go against state trends (i.e. Dems do relatively better compared to in-person votes)?
As for the Philly burbs ... not a push. So far:
Chester County - Biden +51K votes
Delaware County - Biden +70K votes
Montgomery County - Biden +130K votes
Bucks County - Biden +6,500 votes
Lancaster County - Trump +44K votes
Berks County - Trump +16K votes
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Slightly off topic, but I wonder what someone like Ann Richards would say about Trump.
Her and Bentsen campaigning around Texas if they were still alive would have been quite a sight to see.
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Trump lead is 13,500 over Biden in Georgia with over 50k absentee votes left.
https://twitter.com/bluestein/status/1324411276269887495?s=19
This is a list of county by county. I know that Fulton County will have an additional few thousand or more provisional ballots added as well among others:
https://twitter.com/RichardFausset/status/1324362209745604608?s=19
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Trump lead is 13,500 over Biden in Georgia with over 50k absentee votes left.
https://twitter.com/bluestein/status/1324411276269887495?s=19
This is a list of county by county. I know that Fulton County will have an additional few thousand or more provisional ballots added as well among others:
https://twitter.com/RichardFausset/status/1324362209745604608?s=19
military ballots as well, not sure how many there are
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military ballots as well, not sure how many there are
Secretary of State implied that those were being counted in with absentee.
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Secretary of State implied that those were being counted in with absentee.
Those are considered in addition to if you read the comment from the AJC first link in my post above.
GA Sec of State has been wrong a lot and it is always saying there are only xyz ballots left and it is always more.
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military ballots as well, not sure how many there are
Or which way they will break. Normally we would be pretty sure, but after the "suckers and losers" comments its not so clear this year.
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For what it's worth, one Pennsylvania Senator believes Biden will win by around 100k votes, and the other, with a larger consensus says Biden will win Pennsylvania by about 175k votes. They said this within the half hour
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Or which way they will break. Normally we would be pretty sure, but after the "suckers and losers" comments its not so clear this year.
A poll of active duty members by Military Times in August showed 41 percent to 37 percent in favor of Biden. This was before "Suckers and losers."
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/
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So we've often heard the line about "there are bad people on both sides" very often. Most often from conservatives trying to minimize actions taken by far right extremists.
Honest question, I promise I'm not being snarky, are there any liberal leaning groups out there demanding to stop the count in places where Biden is winning? The fact that there are people demanding that legally cast votes not be counted so their candidate can win is terrifying to me. I understand we can disagree on a lot of key issues but I thought the democratic process was something both sides firmly endorsed.
Brother TAMU:
1) Why would you stop the count when you're benefitting from every newly counted vote?
2) Nobody -- except maybe hard cores -- want to stop counting legally cast ballots. That's why I say what I say about credible evidence of misbehavior or of election violation. I don't think there is any. If there's not, keep counting.
Brother Hoops:
I get you don't like Trump's record. There's things I find about it that are sad and in some cases sick. But I would note that regardless of what happens, 100,000 more votes in the right places and we don't have a "controversy" and Donald Trump is re-elected. There's a lot of people that see enough in him who aren't right wing nutcases, reactionary anarchists, hoodlums etc., and voted for him. You can't ignore that or the consideration it requires in the legislative process.
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Take into consideration the early/mail votes will still run 70% Biden, even from Trump strongholds.
I saw this exactly reported last night. Even in major Trump vote counties, the absentee ballots were favoring Biden at the 70%+ rate.
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A poll of active duty members by Military Times in August showed 41 percent to 37 percent in favor of Biden. This was before "Suckers and losers."
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/
Yeah, family members in the military told me that the idea of the military being hard core Republicans is largely false. (Mostly because the military is quite diverse.)
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Brother TAMU:
1) Why would you stop the count when you're benefitting from every newly counted vote?
2) Nobody -- except maybe hard cores -- want to stop counting legally cast ballots. That's why I say what I say about credible evidence of misbehavior or of election violation. I don't think there is any. If there's not, keep counting.
Brother Hoops:
I get you don't like Trump's record. There's things I find about it that are sad and in some cases sick. But I would note that regardless of what happens, 100,000 more votes in the right places and we don't have a "controversy" and Donald Trump is re-elected. There's a lot of people that see enough in him who aren't right wing nutcases, reactionary anarchists, hoodlums etc., and voted for him. You can't ignore that or the consideration it requires in the legislative process.
While we differ ideologically, I respect your opinions. Thanks for being cool.
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Brother TAMU:
1) Why would you stop the count when you're benefitting from every newly counted vote?
I think Arizona goes against this assumption.
2) Nobody -- except maybe hard cores -- want to stop counting legally cast ballots. That's why I say what I say about credible evidence of misbehavior or of election violation. I don't think there is any. If there's not, keep counting.
I wasn't suggesting anyone besides the hard cores want to stop counting votes. But I was genuinely curious if there was evidence of liberal "hard cores" trying to disrupt the democratic process or asking that the democratic process be disrupted.
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Brother TAMU:
1) Why would you stop the count when you're benefitting from every newly counted vote?
2) Nobody -- except maybe hard cores -- want to stop counting legally cast ballots. That's why I say what I say about credible evidence of misbehavior or of election violation. I don't think there is any. If there's not, keep counting.
Brother Hoops:
I get you don't like Trump's record. There's things I find about it that are sad and in some cases sick. But I would note that regardless of what happens, 100,000 more votes in the right places and we don't have a "controversy" and Donald Trump is re-elected. There's a lot of people that see enough in him who aren't right wing nutcases, reactionary anarchists, hoodlums etc., and voted for him. You can't ignore that or the consideration it requires in the legislative process.
To be fair 100k in the right places as trumps never even president in the first place. It breaks both ways.
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According to Pennsylvania Sec of State:
About 550K ballots remain. Most should be counted today.
About 100K are in Philly, with another 10-40K in each of the collar counties.
About 37K in Alleghany County.
Because of legal challenges, late-arriving ballots are being segregated in the event they're thrown out. But based on trends, they're not expecting those ballots to decide the race either way.
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Brother TAMU:
1) Why would you stop the count when you're benefitting from every newly counted vote?
2) Nobody -- except maybe hard cores -- want to stop counting legally cast ballots. That's why I say what I say about credible evidence of misbehavior or of election violation. I don't think there is any. If there's not, keep counting.
Brother Hoops:
I get you don't like Trump's record. There's things I find about it that are sad and in some cases sick. But I would note that regardless of what happens, 100,000 more votes in the right places and we don't have a "controversy" and Donald Trump is re-elected. There's a lot of people that see enough in him who aren't right wing nutcases, reactionary anarchists, hoodlums etc., and voted for him. You can't ignore that or the consideration it requires in the legislative process.
I can't speak for TAMU but he is referencing the actions of Trump etc and stopping counts here and not doing it there. Zero integrity.
As for me, I 100% acknowledge that Trump is getting millions and millions of votes. That doesn't make it good or okay to me. It means that you and whomever votes for him enables and condones all of those things. Example, the wealthy individual or corporation that is more concerned with tax cuts and deregulation first. Yes, I think very poorly of these people, and some (some not) of those both 1% and regular people are in my family and friends etc...
I like making money, stocks, and so on like many other people, but some things come first.
By definition, malignant narcissists don't have an ideology. They are chameleons that constantly change adding and dropping people after getting what they want.
But words matter, actions matter, policy matters, truth matters, hate matters and on and on. Trump is far from Conservative as you know.
But it's the politicians, business people, voters, that enable and condone and encourage for their own interests and personal gain.
I'm far from perfect, but maybe begin with a basic set of standards.
It's pretty simple, all of those things I mentioned and more don't matter as much to his voters and enablers than their own $ and personal gain. Raise the Bar.
We can sit here and debate and disagree about policies, beliefs etc ....but we are nowhere near that point. It's not okay to lie tens of thousands of times, to not do the work, to be Racist, Mysogonistic, a Xenophobe. It's basic respect for people.
Gotta get to that first. Until then the Trumps McConnell's and so on gotta go for me.
I am well aware 40 plus percent of people do not care about these things. I am not in that group. Too many people act like it is a game. Separating kids from parents for kicks and then losing them. PTSD for life right there. Sure let's vote for that because maybe someone is anti abortion or insert reason here. I would say pro life but these people are not pro life.
But I calmly, matter of factly digress. Back to the voting numbers. I am pretty consistent about one thing, ask yourself is this fair? Basic fairness isn't much to ask.
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These fu*king people ...
David Corn @DavidCornDC
The Trump family is now calling on GOP-controlled state legislatures to nullify the actual vote and push for Trump electors. This is a dangerous moment.
https://twitter.com/DavidCornDC/status/1324415365439463424
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So based on how Trump's campaign is acting, would this race have been called by now if it was any other incumbent basically in the history of the country? I mean, if you think there's still a chance you win the election it doesn't seem like you'd act the way Trump's campaign is.
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To be fair 100k in the right places as trumps never even president in the first place. It breaks both ways.
Very true :-).
But my point in bringing this out is that he has a sizeable constituency, not all of whom are deplorables.
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I can't speak for TAMU but he is referencing the actions of Trump etc and stopping counts here and not doing it there. Zero integrity.
As for me, I 100% acknowledge that Trump is getting millions and millions of votes. That doesn't make it good or okay to me. It means that you and whomever votes for him enables and condones all of those things. Example, the wealthy individual or corporation that is more concerned with tax cuts and deregulation first. Yes, I think very poorly of these people, and some (some not) of those both 1% and regular people are in my family and friends etc...
By definition, malignant narcissists don't have an ideology. They are chameleons that constantly change adding and dropping people after getting what they want.
But words matter, actions matter, policy matters, truth matters, hate matters and on and on. Trump is far from Conservative as you know.
But it's the politicians, business people, voters, that enable and condone and encourage for their own interests and personal gain.
I'm far from perfect, but maybe begin with a basic set of standards.
It's pretty simple, all of those things I mentioned and more don't matter as much to his voters and enablers than their own $ and personal gain. Raise the Bar.
We can sit here and debate and disagree about policies, beliefs etc ....but we are nowhere near that point. It's not okay to lie tens of thousands of times, to not do the work, to be Racist, Mysogonistic, a Xenophobe. It's basic respect for people.
Gotta get to that first. Until then the Trumps McConnell's and so on gotta go for me.
I am well aware 40 plus percent of people do not care about these things. I am not in that group. Too many people act like it is a game. Separating kids from parents for kicks and then losing them. PTSD for life right there. Sure let's vote for that because maybe someone is anti abortion or insert reason here. I would say pro life but these people are not pro life.
But I calmly, matter of factly digress. Back to the voting numbers. I am pretty consistent about one thing, ask yourself is this fair? Basic fairness isn't much to ask.
my sister is a now-former teacher (taking this year off due to COVID) and her kids are unable to go back to school. She asked my parents why were so gung ho about Trump (my mom flew a flag) and the answers they had were "look at our retirement" and "no more political correctness." My dad lectured my 16-year-old nephew as to why he needed to take down "in this house..." sign my sister put up. Socialism was also brought up. Granted, this is just anecdotal evidence of one couple, but these are retired, highly educated, and successful suburbanites. They occasionally go to a nondenominational church, are pro-choice having worked in the medical field but are full time Fox News viewers and listen to Limbaugh and local right wing radio.
I don't think they are that far off from many Trump voters.
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I'm seeing a few talking heads say that given the most recent results, Nevada can be called for Biden.
This presents an interesting dilemma for Fox News and the AP. Both called the Arizona election early but it seems like that may have been premature. Nevada looks a lot more secure than Arizona does at the moment....but if they call Nevada, they would have to either uncall Arizona or call the election for Biden. My guess is that they just drag their feet on calling Nevada until either Pennsylvania or Georgia get called for Biden, or Arizona gets deeper into their count with Biden still ahead.
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Trump's suit in Georgia thrown out. Which lead to this fun tweet.
"mo
@mo87mo87
the only problems with trump's suit, according to the judge, is that it was based on hearsay, brought the wrong party to court, couldn't give names of any of the ppl or locations they said broke the law and the relief sought is unavailable because the counting is over."
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These fu*king people ...
David Corn @DavidCornDC
The Trump family is now calling on GOP-controlled state legislatures to nullify the actual vote and push for Trump electors. This is a dangerous moment.
https://twitter.com/DavidCornDC/status/1324415365439463424
I'm no election law specialist, but as I understand it, that's not how electors work. If a state votes R, republican electors are used, if a state votes D, democrat electors are used:
https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/the-electoral-college.aspx
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my sister is a now-former teacher (taking this year off due to COVID) and her kids are unable to go back to school. She asked my parents why were so gung ho about Trump (my mom flew a flag) and the answers they had were "look at our retirement" and "no more political correctness." My dad lectured my 16-year-old nephew as to why he needed to take down "in this house..." sign my sister put up. Socialism was also brought up. Granted, this is just anecdotal evidence of one couple, but these are retired, highly educated, and successful suburbanites. They occasionally go to a nondenominational church, are pro-choice having worked in the medical field but are full time Fox News viewers and listen to Limbaugh and local right wing radio.
I don't think they are that far off from many Trump voters.
Because it's a cult and until they get help on understanding the depth of their brainwash they know not what they spew.
A good place to start is explain socialism to them and how wrong they are at what they call socialism isn't remotely.
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I'm no election law specialist, but as I understand it, that's not how electors work. If a state votes R, republican electors are used, if a state votes D, democrat electors are used:
https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/the-electoral-college.aspx
Yes. By federal law, the electors have already been chosen. Here are Georgia's. This is just another example of how people THINK they understand how the Constitution works, but they really don't.
https://sos.ga.gov/admin/uploads/2020PresidentialElectors.pdf
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I'm no election law specialist, but as I understand it, that's not how electors work. If a state votes R, republican electors are used, if a state votes D, democrat electors are used:
https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/the-electoral-college.aspx
The Atlantic always thinking ahead and has a story on. From September issue.
The Election That Could Break America
If the vote is close, Donald Trump could easily throw the election into chaos and subvert the result. Who will stop him?
Story by Barton Gellman
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/
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Because it's a cult and until they get help on understanding the depth of their brainwash they know not what they spew.
A good place to start is explain socialism to them and how wrong they are at what they call socialism isn't remotely.
A good way to start this is to ask them how they feel about the New Deal and go from there.
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Very true :-).
But my point in bringing this out is that he has a sizeable constituency, not all of whom are deplorables.
You're right of course, to some on the left if you're willing to overlook what trump says, the supports he caters to, and things he has done (especially before president) then you're as bad as the worst of them. Obviously on the same note not every democrat is a corrupt socialist or communist union boss bought out by the mob who moonlights as an Antifa member but, there's even members on this board who think if you lean left you are exactly that. So again it's not just us making trump supporter associations
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Georgia vote hold up reason presented without comment:
https://twitter.com/AlanJudd3000/status/1324430631690973186?s=19
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Maybe I spoke too soon, not sure how Biden can win now.
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1324175651515949056
Worth watching
https://twitter.com/goldengateblond/status/1324179774474915842
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Rick Santorum on cnn has been very entertaining
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These fu*king people ...
David Corn @DavidCornDC
The Trump family is now calling on GOP-controlled state legislatures to nullify the actual vote and push for Trump electors. This is a dangerous moment.
https://twitter.com/DavidCornDC/status/1324415365439463424
Pretty sure you only do that if you think you're gonna lose....
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A good place to start is explain socialism to them and how wrong they are at what they call socialism isn't remotely.
Facts don't matter, not so long as they continue to watch and listen to Fox and Limbaugh.
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Because it's a cult and until they get help on understanding the depth of their brainwash they know not what they spew.
A good place to start is explain socialism to them and how wrong they are at what they call socialism isn't remotely.
I've tried! My mom is full on in the cult. The last time I was home I overheard my dad telling some friends about AOC because Fox pushes the hell out her as a scare tactic. I just stay away from them now (a 5 hour flight away is a positive).
The thing that gets me about my mom is that her dad worked for Eisenhower, who would be a raging socialist in Trump's GOP. Even when you correct her she doesn't care. She started going off on the KKK being "Democrat" and I brought up realignment and her response was "the kid knows too much." She started ripping immigrants and my wife, an anchor baby daughter of immigrants, snapped back at her and there was no response. My dad is much more highly educated (M.D.) so he doesn't get into the social issues, it's all "stock market and taxes."
They just don't want to know facts outside of their own version of facts.
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Very true :-).
But my point in bringing this out is that he has a sizeable constituency, not all of whom are deplorables.
That's a matter of opinion. Trump is proving the past couple of days he has no interest in democracy and he's been telegraphing it all year. You still support him for any reason you're deplorable to me because at the very best you're complicit.
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I've tried! My mom is full on in the cult. The last time I was home I overheard my dad telling some friends about AOC because Fox pushes the hell out her as a scare tactic. I just stay away from them now (a 5 hour flight away is a positive).
The thing that gets me about my mom is that her dad worked for Eisenhower, who would be a raging socialist in Trump's GOP. Even when you correct her she doesn't care. She started going off on the KKK being "Democrat" and I brought up realignment and her response was "the kid knows too much." She started ripping immigrants and my wife, an anchor baby daughter of immigrants, snapped back at her and there was no response. My dad is much more highly educated (M.D.) so he doesn't get into the social issues, it's all "stock market and taxes."
They just don't want to know facts outside of their own version of facts.
Try reframing the argument. Facts won't convince people. For a lot of people, you have to personalize it. Involving your wife, and her family's story would be important. You can't yank them over to your side, you have to change their hearts first then their minds will come along eventually.
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Georgia vote hold up reason presented without comment:
https://twitter.com/AlanJudd3000/status/1324430631690973186?s=19
(https://y.yarn.co/231504c8-ce51-4110-bbd2-cdcacb3fc678_text.gif)
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Biden inside 13k behind in Georgia
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So apparently this court order holding up the ballots in Pittsburgh isn't recent. They have to be segregated because they were sent the voters in question were sent the wrong ballot. I think the implication is they are definitely going to be counted.
https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020/11/05/allegheny-county-29000-mail-in-ballots-friday/
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According to Pennsylvania Sec of State:
About 550K ballots remain. Most should be counted today.
About 100K are in Philly, with another 10-40K in each of the collar counties.
About 37K in Alleghany County.
Because of legal challenges, late-arriving ballots are being segregated in the event they're thrown out. But based on trends, they're not expecting those ballots to decide the race either way.
Is that including ballots arriving late, their dashboard says only 360k votes still to be counted.
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Is that including ballots arriving late, their dashboard says only 360k votes still to be counted.
This was earlier today. The latest reports have it at 370K.
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Latest from Georgia Sec of State:
41K 47K votes left to count.
About 35K of them are in Chatham, Clayton, Fulton and Gwinnett counties.
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Latest from Georgia Sec of State:
41K votes left to count.
About 35K of them are in Chatham, Clayton, Fulton and Gwinnett counties.
Thought he said 47k left?
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Thought he said 47k left?
You're correct. I misheard. Fixed.
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You're correct. I misheard. Fixed.
Seems doable. Not convinced on PA, but GA I have some cautious optimism.
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My Georgia napkin math:
If 65% of outstanding ballots go for Biden, he'll win by about 1k.
70% puts it about 5-6k for Biden.
75%, Biden wins by 10k.
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Snapshot of Georgia County percentages thus far. Biden took Harris County 50-48, was expected to lose it. Much of the remaining votes should be heavy Biden geographies.
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Try reframing the argument. Facts won't convince people. For a lot of people, you have to personalize it. Involving your wife, and her family's story would be important. You can't yank them over to your side, you have to change their hearts first then their minds will come along eventually.
I tried that with my wife's sister, a middle-class daughter of immigrants who got into Harvard. While debating Legacy Admissions I was asked her if she would have liked it if she lost her spot to a Legacy admit and just said "that would have never happened to me." Head, meet wall!
Some, like her and my parents, are just set in their ways.
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My Georgia napkin math:
If 65% of outstanding ballots go for Biden, he'll win by about 1k.
70% puts it about 5-6k for Biden.
75%, Biden wins by 10k.
Both will be below 50.0%, and will have to go at it again in a January run-off election, per Georgia law. The Electoral College is Dec.14th, so Congress will have to meet to reschedule, per constitution.
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Biden keeps overtaking Trump in county after county in Pennsylvania. Bucks, Erie, Lehigh etc....those are super close until...mail votes.....Biden 73% Erie mail votes. 91% Philly mail in votes to Biden etc...
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Both will be below 50.0%, and will have to go at it again in a January run-off election, per Georgia law. The Electoral College is Dec.14th, so Congress will have to meet to reschedule, per constitution.
I don't believe that applies to the presidential elections, just the others.
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Both will be below 50.0%, and will have to go at it again in a January run-off election, per Georgia law. The Electoral College is Dec.14th, so Congress will have to meet to reschedule, per constitution.
I think that's only for their congressional seats. Not presidential elections.
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Both will be below 50.0%, and will have to go at it again in a January run-off election, per Georgia law. The Electoral College is Dec.14th, so Congress will have to meet to reschedule, per constitution.
Those races should be interesting considering they may be for the power of the Senate. And what will turnout be without Trump? What will it be if Trump pulls some sort of hail mary comeback?
They will be the biggest races over the next two years... and they happen in TWO MONTHS.
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PA is weird. The Biden camp thinks they have it solidly. Trump camp thinks they will win it by 40k votes, and are more worried about Georgia.
They can't both be right, and you'd assume they both are basing things off internal numbers.
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Another batch of votes came in for Georgia, unsure which counties they were from.
Biden: 4,708 (76.3%)
Trump: 1,462 (23.7%)
Net Gain of 3,246 for Biden.
Assuming there weren't that many third party votes, that puts Trump's lead at 9,525 with ~41,000 votes left to be counted.
If my math is right, Biden now needs ~61.5% of the remaining votes to win by a threadbare count
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PA is weird. The Biden camp thinks they have it solidly. Trump camp thinks they will win it by 40k votes, and are more worried about Georgia.
They can't both be right, and you'd assume they both are basing things off internal numbers.
Ignore the noise coming from either candidate.
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PA is weird. The Biden camp thinks they have it solidly. Trump camp thinks they will win it by 40k votes, and are more worried about Georgia.
They can't both be right, and you'd assume they both are basing things off internal numbers.
If we only knew which of those two groups had integrity...
Biden has an easier chance to win Pennsylvania.
In Georgia, w/the DT lead down to 9k, Chatham County still has 17k plus. It's heavy Biden, Savannah etc...small batches elsewhere...Clayton, Fulton, dominant Biden locations.
https://twitter.com/tbonier/status/1324472051873255429?s=19
In Pennsylvania, their Secretary of State said there was 550,000 plus votes to be counted today. This amount would give Biden more than enough total vote quantity to win.
Georgia will be closer. But it appears if these numbers are correct, Biden will win both and eventually get into the 300 plus Electoral Vote range.
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Those races should be interesting considering they may be for the power of the Senate. And what will turnout be without Trump? What will it be if Trump pulls some sort of hail mary comeback?
They will be the biggest races over the next two years... and they happen in TWO MONTHS.
If you have some spare cash lying around, go buy a TV station in Georgia. Going to be a bazillion dollars of ads flooding the state for the next two months.
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Pennsylvania Sec of State just now said very few provisional ballots have been counted thus far. That number will be unusually high this year. Many Biden voters requested mail ballots but instead did provisional ballots in person due to USPS concerns. Another big thing for vote quantity and Biden.
This will also help Biden in Georgia too.
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Apparently still 326k left to count in PA.
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Pennsylvania Sec of State just now said very few provisional ballots have been counted thus far. That number will be unusually high this year. Many Biden voters requested mail ballots but instead did provisional ballots in person due to USPS concerns. Another big thing for vote quantity and Biden.
This will also help Biden in Georgia too.
People are going to be pissed and there will be a TON of conspiracy theories (deep state, dems cheat) because of all the tracking sites. For a while it has looked like almost all the votes are counted, and now people keep hearing about more ballots being found. The next couple of months will not be fun.
This is why we needed all received ballots to be counted as they came in.
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Today's vote county out of reliably red Cumberland County, Penn.
Biden - 20K
Trump - 9K
So, he picked up 11,000 votes in a county Trump was +17.
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Today's vote county out of reliably red Cumberland County, Penn.
Biden - 20K
Trump - 9K
So, he picked up 11,000 votes in a county Trump was +17.
Biden is winning mail in votes in just about every single county in the state of Pennsylvania. And in many, he is destroying DT in those results.
Many votes still out there as well. Biden will possibly take the lead just by Philly alone, let alone the 25k in Lehigh where he is crushing it etc ..and several places elsewhere.
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People are going to be pissed and there will be a TON of conspiracy theories (deep state, dems cheat) because of all the tracking sites. For a while it has looked like almost all the votes are counted, and now people keep hearing about more ballots being found. The next couple of months will not be fun.
This is why we needed all received ballots to be counted as they came in.
States: can we count ballots before election day?
GOP: no
States: can we count ballots after election day?
GOP: also no
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That press briefing was....something.
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That press briefing was....something.
(https://pa1.narvii.com/6743/c45bf719fba77dd634a793ec9470e01660e969b0_hq.gif)
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That press briefing was....something.
Holy unnatural carnal knowledge that was the whiny-est speech from an elected official, ever. Forget Presidents, I doubt there has ever been a person running for school board that was so pathetic.
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No kidding...wtf
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/85/e4/kr4x0QjU_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/kr4x0QjU)
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/85/e4/kr4x0QjU_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/kr4x0QjU)
Honestly I think it was so over the top pathetic that it probably cost him support among his allies. I don’t think it will lead to anything but rats jumping off the sinking ship.
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@popehat
That was like a small-town community theater production of Death of A Salesman where the director insists on casting his clinically depressed great-uncle as Willy Loman
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70 million people thought that man fit to be the leader of the free world. That is a sobering thought
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Holy unnatural carnal knowledge that was the whiny-est speech from an elected official, ever. Forget Presidents, I doubt there has ever been a person running for school board that was so pathetic.
unhinged does not start to describe it. My favorite was the line about poll watchers being made to stand so away they need binoculars to see what's going on. OMFG.
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Georgia is 3,635 vote margin and here is what Biden needs to do to win Georgia:
https://twitter.com/BrendanKeefe/status/1324508294321446914?s=19
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Turned on Fox News just out of curiosity, they are putting football fields worth of distance between them and Trump real quick.
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He acts utterly helpless. As if he isnt president and has no power what so ever. And yeah of course every damn key state that he lost or is close is obviously rigged. either he wins or its rigged. Zero other possibility.
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Georgia is less than 4k vote margin and here is what Biden needs to do to win Georgia:
https://twitter.com/BrendanKeefe/status/1324508294321446914?s=19
from CNN:
Georgia: The state is one Trump cannot afford to lose with its 16 electoral votes, Biden's mail-in ballot advantage has pulled him to less than 4,000 votes of the President, as results came in from Fulton County around Atlanta with 98% of the state vote count reported. There are approximately 18,936 ballots still outstanding across the state as of 7:15 p.m. ET, according to a statement by Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. Almost all of the outstanding ballots are absentee ballots, Raffensperger told CNN earlier today.
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Trump was winning Forsyth County, GA by 34%. However, in that last batch Biden had 5% more mail in votes there than Trump. The discrepancy in mail in voters D vs R is huge, pretty much in many states.
More Forsyth coming but 5,700 or so Clayton, County and that could be 80 plus percent for Biden.
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Trump was winning Forsyth County, GA by 34%. However, in that last batch Biden had 5% more mail in votes there than Trump. The discrepancy in mail in voters D vs R is huge, pretty much in many states.
More Forsyth coming but 5,700 or so Clayton, County and that could be 80 plus percent for Biden.
Part of this is because Trump told his voters NOT to vote by mail.
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Part of this is because Trump told his voters NOT to vote by mail.
Also Harris and Laurens Counties are red and coming but small and again, if Biden keeps up his performance in these small red counties while crushing it in the blue ones, he will win Georgia.
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Part of this is because Trump told his voters NOT to vote by mail.
And yet he can't fathom why mail-in ballots so heavily favor Biden.
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Obviously, lots of long-time, "mainstream" pollsters had nowhere near the right formula in so many states. But before we crown Trafalgar as the geniuses of geniuses ...
They had Trump winning Georgia +4.
They had Trump winning Arizona +2.5 (and the other main right-leaning pollster, Rasmussen, had Trump winning AZ +4).
They had Trump winning in Michigan +2.5.
They had Trump winning Pennsylvania +2.
They had Trump winning Nevada narrowly.
They had Biden barely scraping by in Minnesota, where he won by 7.
And while I don't see a national poll for Trafalgar, Trump probably would have won the popular vote if he had won all the states Trafalgar said he would. Biden is going to win it pretty decisively.
So while a crap-ton of pollsters ended up embarrassing themselves by failing to account for the "quiet Trump voters" and other Trumpian stuff, Trafalgar seemingly didn't account enough for the "pandemic mail-in factor" or something.
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Another thing is that if Pennsylvania would have counted its votes as they came in, it would not be this big of a deal. It would have been called for Biden long ago.
Biden is winning 76% of all Pennsylvania mail in ballots across all counties in Pennsylvania.
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"Are you being a sore loser" at the end of the briefing was hilarious. I just don't get MAGAs. How anyone can support that guy...whoooeeee.
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Part of this is because Trump told his voters NOT to vote by mail.
Former GOP Congress Rep:
https://twitter.com/BarbaraComstock/status/1324502986417201152?s=19
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Lotta Republicans are getting ready to throw their hat into the ring.
They must be getting info it ain’t going well.
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Are there still people that think Trump is the Republican’s man come 2024?
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Former GOP Congress Rep:
https://twitter.com/BarbaraComstock/status/1324502986417201152?s=19
And it should be pointed out that she's no RINO (because that's now required any time a real Republican criticizes anything the emperor does).
She voted with Trump's position 97.8% of the time and was the second-most partisan Trump supporter versus her district's own voting patterns in the U.S. House. She supported a ban on abortion except in cases of rape, incest, or when the mother's life is in danger. While in the Virginia legislature, she voted in favor of HB 462, which required women to have transvaginal ultrasounds before receiving an abortion.
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Georgia.
There are 3,900 Fulton County Provisional Ballots. 1,600 DeKalb County Provisional Ballots. These of course are huge Biden counties. Other counties amounts unknown.
There are 2,000 absentee votes with either missing or mismatched signatures that can be corrected by tomorrow's deadline.
There are just under 8,899 military and overseas ballots not yet returned. Tomorrow is the deadline for those.
Most provisional ballots will be counted without fixing, but, tomorrow is last chance last dance for that too if it is required.
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Obviously, lots of long-time, "mainstream" pollsters had nowhere near the right formula in so many states. But before we crown Trafalgar as the geniuses of geniuses ...
I don't mean this in a snarky way at all, but it may just be that polling - especially in an era of cell phones, caller ID and mistrust - is really, really hard.
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I don't mean this in a snarky way at all, but it may just be that polling - especially in an era of cell phones, caller ID and mistrust - is really, really hard.
I think this is a big part of it. Also, a lot of traditional Trump voters aren't going to actually partake even if they do answer the phone.
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I think this is a big part of it. Also, a lot of traditional Trump voters aren't going to actually partake even if they do answer the phone.
fixed
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How can Nevada operate all those casinos and be the slowest counters in the USA , esp. with only a million plus ballots. Did their counters simply clap out?
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unhinged does not start to describe it. My favorite was the line about poll watchers being made to stand so away they need binoculars to see what's going on. OMFG.
He's become Capt. Queeg, the ballots are his strawberries, and the Caine is sinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KekChFdIe00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KekChFdIe00)
"Ah, but the strawberries. That's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes. But I proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, and with geometric logic, that a duplicate key to the ward-room icebox did exist. And I'd have produced that key if they hadn't pulled the Caine out of action."
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How can Nevada operate all those casinos and be the slowest counters in the USA , esp. with only a million plus ballots. Did their counters simply clap out?
Thank you. Absurd.
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How can Nevada operate all those casinos and be the slowest counters in the USA , esp. with only a million plus ballots. Did their counters simply clap out?
Humor. I laughed when I saw this about Nevada:
https://twitter.com/ej11lizzie/status/1324218622751830019?s=19
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Defends confederate traitors. Defends vigilante killers. Defends white supremacists. Defends conspiracy theorists. Defends Putin.
Condemns our most sacred democratic process.
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Thank you. Absurd.
I've been watching this - and maybe there's no hurry since nothing is in doubt but the ones that are shameful:
California: 77%
Mississippi: 78%
Maryland: 70%
New Jersey: 71%
New York: 84%
Alaska: 56%
Illinois: 87%
Thankfully we're not waiting for any of them to count ::)
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I've been watching this - and maybe there's no hurry since nothing is in doubt but the ones that are shameful:
California: 77%
Mississippi: 78%
Maryland: 70%
New Jersey: 71%
New York: 84%
Alaska: 56%
Illinois: 87%
Thankfully we're not waiting for any of them to count ::)
But the numbers are lower in Nevada, true?
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Clayton County, Georgia votes batch:
Biden gets 1,154 out of 1,319 ballots.
DT lead down to 2,497.
4400, to 5,726 more from Clayton County cominv. Also, Gwinnett has 4,800 to add to that. These will be big for Biden.
Biden should overtake the Georgia lead later tonight with the Midnight Eastern batch.
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But the numbers are lower in Nevada, true?
In terms of # of votes to count...Mississippi is similar. Alaska is way lower.
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But the numbers are lower in Nevada, true?
Less poll workers too.
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I've been watching this - and maybe there's no hurry since nothing is in doubt but the ones that are shameful:
California: 77%
Mississippi: 78%
Maryland: 70%
New Jersey: 71%
New York: 84%
Alaska: 56%
Illinois: 87%
Thankfully we're not waiting for any of them to count ::)
Illinois is a result of some funky reporting practices by individual counties. Lake County, for example, doesn't report results regularly after election night. They won't provide another update until next week. Then they'll give a final count Nov. 17.
Makes no sense, but county clerks have a lot of discretion.
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Less poll workers too.
I'd think NV would have LOT more pole workers than MS.
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I'd think NV would have LOT more pole workers than MS.
You’re on a roll tonight.
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Clayton County, Georgia votes batch:
Biden gets 1,154 out of 1,319 ballots.
DT lead down to 2,497.
4400, to 5,726 more from Clayton County cominv. Also, Gwinnett has 4,800 to add to that. These will be big for Biden.
Biden should overtake the Georgia lead later tonight with the Midnight Eastern batch.
1,902 is the Trump lead after a Rockdale (Red) batch for Biden.
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Ok to have a man crush on John King? Works that map like he created the software himself
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Ok to have a man crush on John King? Works that map like he created the software himself
Haha he’s been the biggest winner this week.
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Revoke his bail, please.
@FrankFigliuzzi1: Steve Bannon calls for beheading Dr. Fauci and FBI Director Wray:
https://twitter.com/peltzmadeline/status/1324471538310127618/video/1 @FBI #Bannon
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Revoke his bail, please.
@FrankFigliuzzi1: Steve Bannon calls for beheading Dr. Fauci and FBI Director Wray:
https://twitter.com/peltzmadeline/status/1324471538310127618/video/1 @FBI #Bannon
Guys a f*ckin lunatic. good youtube cut his show off.
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MUGuru watch 2020
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MUGuru watch 2020
I think the mods may have given him an early vacation for his own sake.
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Revoke his bail, please.
@FrankFigliuzzi1: Steve Bannon calls for beheading Dr. Fauci and FBI Director Wray:
https://twitter.com/peltzmadeline/status/1324471538310127618/video/1 @FBI #Bannon
This is totally appalling. And Bannon is an appalling person.
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I'd think NV would have LOT more pole workers than MS.
Boom goes the dynamite!
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I think the mods may have given him an early vacation for his own sake.
Rocket watch? 4ever watch?
I mean even if by miracle trump pulls this out they were wayyyyy too cocky
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John Lewis' district poised to push Biden over the top in Georgia. How fitting.
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John Lewis' district poised to push Biden over the top in Georgia. How fitting.
That would be perfect.
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Sounds like the Trump campaign sent Lionel Hutz to argue their case in federal court today.
@alanfeuer: Judge asks campaign lawyer if GOP observers are in the room or not.
Lawyer says there "is a non-zero number" of them in the room.
Judge, losing patience, asks, "Are people repping DJT Trump for President in that room?"
Yes.
"Then what's the problem?" judge asks.
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John Lewis' district poised to push Biden over the top in Georgia. How fitting.
It’s a good race between Lewis’ district and McCain’s state.
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So who's buying a gun for the civil war that breaks out tomorrow?
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So who's buying a gun for the civil war that breaks out tomorrow?
Not happening. We were told violence and disturbances would only come if Trump won.
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Clayton County has been cranking out 85% for Biden. Biden could be ahead by at least a few thousand later tonight. Come through John Lewis. Cue the Louis Armstrong and Ray Charles.
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Not happening. We were told violence and disturbances would only come if Trump won.
Good point. I feel safer already.
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I do think AZ goes back to Trump but man, John Lewis’ district giving Biden Georgia would be unbelievable
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There's always a tweet. Never forget:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/820251730407473153?s=19
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Think we know the count by tomorrow?
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Good point. I feel safer already.
Me too. At least COVID is done.
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Me too. At least COVID is done.
Yep. That and now we can stop watching the election since Trump won all the "legal" votes.
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Not happening. We were told violence and disturbances would only come if Trump won.
Now that the anarchists have taken over so many of our American cities, I'm sure the president will send in the secret military police to throw the rioters into unmarked vans.
Oh wait ... these anarchists are white "patriots." Never mind.
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Stacey Abrams had the 2018 Georgia Governor race stolen from her by the current Georgia Governor's voter suppression.
What did she do next?
Abrams then founded "Fair Fight" raising $32 million and registering 800,000 new voters.
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Now that the anarchists have taken over so many of our American cities, I'm sure the president will send in the secret military police to throw the rioters into unmarked vans.
Oh wait ... these anarchists are white "patriots." Never mind.
In Portland they’re the same far left groups that were rioting all summer. Last night it was “f—k Trump, f—k Biden” being chanted while a Catholic Church was trashed. The violence had been planned and promoted for a week regardless of who won.
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As a tease, Clayton County GA dropped 129 votes just now. 117 were for Biden.
The bigger one coming shortly.
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"Do not get lost in a sea of despair. Do not become bitter or hostile. Be hopeful, be optimistic. Never, ever be afraid to make some noise and get in good trouble, necessary trouble. We will find a way to make a way out of no way. #goodtrouble"
https://twitter.com/repjohnlewis/status/1151155571757867011?s=19
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Look! Actual evidence of potential voter fraud:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/06/trumps-wisconsin-campaign-asks-pennsylvania-cast-late-ballots/6182506002/
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PA looks like it may hold for trump. Must be Voter fraud!!! Every state my guy didnt win is cuz fraud damnit! every state my guy won was legit though. I cant stand the garbage people spew.. ugh jesus.
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Biden is now ahead in Georgia by 1,096 votes.
Biden is closing in Pennsylvania and there are far more than enough ballots left in Philadelphia alone to cover the gap.
Biden almost certain to hold on in Nevada based on where the remaining votes are, they plan to have them all counted by February.
Biden will likely hold Arizona, but with Georgia and Pennsylvania both going blue, he doesn't need it anymore.
Of course, the political wheel will still turn as all eyes shift to the two Georgia Senate run-offs.
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Stacey Abrams had the 2018 Georgia Governor race stolen from her by the current Georgia Governor's voter suppression.
What did she do next?
Abrams then founded "Fair Fight" raising $32 million and registering 800,000 new voters.
Fun fact: Born in Madison
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Georgia, with its Republican governor, Republican secretary of state (who is in charge of the election) and Republican voting system implementation manager, is obviously trying to steal the election for Democrats. I mean, duh.
There are more important things to do right now, but when it's all said and done, numerous hard-working election and state officials in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Michigan, Nevada and Wisconsin should file slander lawsuits against Citizen Trump and the Trump puppets who have publicly impugned their integrity.
Truly a disgusting performance by a small, hate-filled, desperate bully who is losing his lunch money to a 593-year-old man.
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Biden now up in the Keystone State.
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Here's some interesting stuff from the NYT on all the lawsuits Trump has filed or will file ...
The Trump campaign and its allies have filed so many election challenges that it requires litigation trackers. This litany of lawsuits is typical of the president’s strategy in his business career — make claims and see what sticks — but it’s unlikely to clinch the election, legal experts say. However, it may serve other purposes.
“‘Sue everyone all the time’ is not going to get him anywhere” in stopping vote counts, Garrett Epps, a constitutional law scholar at the University of Baltimore, told DealBook. Mr. Trump was famously litigious in business, but as president he’s been “better at getting into court than performing,” he said. Republican lawyers have noted flaws in the approach. “You need a legal violation to go to court. It depends on state law and on the facts,” the former White House counsel Don McGahn said this week after the president invoked the Supreme Court in a tweet.
The big picture: Lawsuits matter only if the vote margins are very thin and there’s fraud or procedural problems; so far, these haven’t been issues, said Josh Blackman of the South Texas College of Law. Yesterday, judges in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Georgia resisted requests to stop counts, saying they found no threats to election integrity. But Mr. Trump has regularly used legal complaints to buy time, so Mr. Blackman posits that he is “hoping something breaks,” which would allow for more cases. This isn’t likely, given “the number of eyeballs” on the process, he added.
What about the Supreme Court? The president asked to intervene in a case about a ballot count extension in Pennsylvania that state Republicans twice requested the justices review, unsuccessfully. Mr. Blackman believes that the top court probably won’t agree to hear the case now, either, unless the vote count is so close that a decision is critical to certifying Pennsylvania’s winner. “They don’t unnecessarily decide difficult constitutional questions,” he said. Mr. Epps said the justices “have to think about their legacy and reputation,” especially the newest member of the court, confirmed quickly ahead of the election. “If I were Amy Coney Barrett, I would not want my 40 years to start with this case,” he said.
What happens next? The lawsuits can be effective for Mr. Trump without succeeding or being valid, Mr. Epps added, simply by showing that he’s fighting, providing fund-raising motivation and cultivating a narrative of unfair treatment. This could serve him well should the votes ultimately go against him and he moves on to lead a media empire or act as a Republican kingmaker (or candidate) in 2024.
I thought the comment about Barrett, which I bolded, was especially interesting and rings true.
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Andrew Yang speaks the truth about the disconnect between Democrats and the working class. Worth watching the full clip, if you're interested.
"In there minds the Democratic party unfortunately has taken on this role of the coastal urban elites who are more concerned about policing various cultural issues than improving their way of life."
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1324517436469760007/pu/vid/1314x720/GcjgKXrd6QucRXMA.mp4?tag=10
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Biden now up in the Keystone State.
Yeah, its all over but the cryin'. Hopefully momentum can be held through January for those two GA senate races. They're essential.
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Andrew Yang speaks the truth about the disconnect between Democrats and the working class. Worth watching the full clip, if you're interested.
"In there minds the Democratic party unfortunately has taken on this role of the coastal urban elites who are more concerned about policing various cultural issues than improving their way of life."
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1324517436469760007/pu/vid/1314x720/GcjgKXrd6QucRXMA.mp4?tag=10
Andrew Yang is awesome, hope he runs again or gets a prominent spot in the new administration.
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Stacey Abrams had the 2018 Georgia Governor race stolen from her by the current Georgia Governor's voter suppression.
What did she do next?
Abrams then founded "Fair Fight" raising $32 million and registering 800,000 new voters.
She should run the DNC. She should also continue pushing for paper ballots nationwide.
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Yeah, its all over but the cryin'. Hopefully momentum can be held through January for those two GA senate races. They're essential.
IMHO, it's important for the national psyche that Biden win Georgia. Win a state whose election officials and governor are Republican, and win Nevada as expected to get to 275, and then Pennsylvania doesn't really "matter" in the outcome.
That wouldn't stop Trump from whining and litigating, but it would render his baseless claims meaningless.
As for the Senate races, I have trouble believing that Dems will get out the vote with Trump not on the ballot. That sucks, but I think history has shown that to be true.
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Andrew Yang speaks the truth about the disconnect between Democrats and the working class. Worth watching the full clip, if you're interested.
"In there minds the Democratic party unfortunately has taken on this role of the coastal urban elites who are more concerned about policing various cultural issues than improving their way of life."
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1324517436469760007/pu/vid/1314x720/GcjgKXrd6QucRXMA.mp4?tag=10
This is fascinating to me. I mean at a certain point you have to be straight forward with small town America "look a lot of your jobs and way of life is dying out" but you still need their vote and they won't accept that small town America is disappearing message. How do you fix it?
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IMHO, it's important for the national psyche that Biden win Georgia. Win a state whose election officials and governor are Republican, and win Nevada as expected to get to 275, and then Pennsylvania doesn't really "matter" in the outcome.
That wouldn't stop Trump from whining and litigating, but it would render his baseless claims meaningless.
As for the Senate races, I have trouble believing that Dems will get out the vote with Trump not on the ballot. That sucks, but I think history has shown that to be true.
Absolutely, I think Biden gets 306 when this is all said and done.
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Excited to watch the numerous interviews of Black people today (especially Women) today in Philadelphia, Atlanta, Detroit, Milwaukee, as well as Hispanic people in AZ, NV, about their interests and needs and wants for the future.
Insert your blue font here.
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“Democracy is sometimes messy. It sometimes requires a little patience as well. But that patience has been rewarded now for more than 240 years with a system of governance that’s been the envy of the world.”
The definition of "presidential."
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Andrew Yang speaks the truth about the disconnect between Democrats and the working class. Worth watching the full clip, if you're interested.
"In there minds the Democratic party unfortunately has taken on this role of the coastal urban elites who are more concerned about policing various cultural issues than improving their way of life."
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1324517436469760007/pu/vid/1314x720/GcjgKXrd6QucRXMA.mp4?tag=10
Yes. I have been saying this for the past four years. I have family members who grew up in staunchly Democratic, union households, who voted Republican for the first time in their life four years ago - and repeated it earlier this week.
Writing those people off as stupid, racist or members of a cult, is demeaning and dumb.
Who is that next Democrat that is going to inspire these people to move back to the Democrats? It certainly won't be Bernie or Elizabeth Warren.
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Yes. I have been saying this for the past four years. I have family members who grew up in staunchly Democratic, union households, who voted Republican for the first time in their life four years ago - and repeated it earlier this week.
Writing those people off as stupid, racist or members of a cult, is demeaning and dumb.
Who is that next Democrat that is going to inspire these people to move back to the Democrats? It certainly won't be Bernie or Elizabeth Warren.
Interesting, as some of the more progressive Dem candidates had more election success than some who were more moderate.
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Only the Best People, part 7,432:
"Said one administration official: “When Bush had this issue [fighting over ballot counts] they tapped arguably the pre-eminent statesman of his generation, James Baker, to spearhead their legal and PR efforts, to great effect. … We rolled out Rudy Giuliani, Corey Lewandowski and Pam Bondi. You can draw your own conclusions.”
https://politicalwire.com/2020/11/06/trumpworld-rages-behind-the-scenes/
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This is fascinating to me. I mean at a certain point you have to be straight forward with small town America "look a lot of your jobs and way of life is dying out" but you still need their vote and they won't accept that small town America is disappearing message. How do you fix it?
It's not just small towns. And telling a 60 some year old who set out on a certain path trying to make a living 40 years ago that "their way of life is dying out" is not a productive discussion.
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Interesting because some of the more progressive Dem candidates had more election success than some who were more moderate.
I'm not sure they need to necessarily be moderate. They need to be more relatable. I think Biden is the type of candidate I am talking about, and would have been much stronger than Hillary was.
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IMHO, it's important for the national psyche that Biden win Georgia. Win a state whose election officials and governor are Republican, and win Nevada as expected to get to 275, and then Pennsylvania doesn't really "matter" in the outcome.
It's also important to have multiple paths to victory in case recounts or court challenges upend one of them.
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I'm not sure they need to necessarily be moderate. They need to be more relatable. I think Biden is the type of candidate I am talking about, and would have been much stronger than Hillary was.
Biden and H Clinton are similar in beliefs, policies etc....Some people didn't like H Clinton because they are sexist and mysogonistic and believe women need to look a certain way, and contort themselves a certain way. Men do not have these same thresholds by a long shot. Reducing and eliminating this moving forward would be a good priority.
Electorates are complex and varied. Aggressively reaching out to all aspects of it instead of just some is a key to improvement. We have discussed Hispanic voters previously for example. That is a very diverse, varied group that requires micro attention. Etc .m
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Stat of the day:
Biden is on track to win the popular vote by more than 7 million votes.
35 states have a population of less than 7 million.
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Biden and H Clinton are similar in beliefs, policies etc....Some people didn't like H Clinton because they are sexist and Mysogonistic and believe women need to look a certain way, and contort themselves a certain way. Men do not have these same thresholds by a long shot. Reducing and eliminating this moving forward would a good priority.
Electorates are complex and varied. Aggressively reaching out to all aspects of it instead of just some is a key to improvement. We have discussed Hispanic voters previously for example. That is a very diverse, varied group that requires micro attention. Etc .m
You are definitely correct that sexism has a lot to do with this.
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Who is that next Democrat that is going to inspire these people to move back to the Democrats? It certainly won't be Bernie or Elizabeth Warren.
Interestingly, some of the key the messages of Sanders and Warren in particular (financial reform, health care) play quite well with the working class. They might not be the best mediums for those messages, but speaking only to the issues, they're not why the Democrats have been losing the working class.
It's the old guard led by Pelosi, Schumer, Feinstein, Leahy, etc., that have done the real damage.
And, the other side has media partners that are very skilled at amplifying the "coastal elite" message, don't they?
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This is fascinating to me. I mean at a certain point you have to be straight forward with small town America "look a lot of your jobs and way of life is dying out" but you still need their vote and they won't accept that small town America is disappearing message. How do you fix it?
Again, messaging. Ask them why the Republicans keep promising them that manufacturing jobs are coming back? And when those plants DO come back, what makes them believe that they won't be automated?
There has to be a way to convince rural voters that they're voting against their children's futures. Stop identifying or creating a narrative of opposition and conflict. Anger and fear fuel Republican voters. They see the Democrats as the 'elites' and they're angry at them for looking down on the things they enjoy. They're afraid of losing 'their way of life' when it died decades ago back in the 80s when China realized they had a country of poor people and a ton of natural resources they could exploit.
I think a major problem that the Democratic party has is that they are constantly on the defensive. Republicans paint them as baby killing, gun taking, socialists that want to take over their lives. And instead treating those smears are legitimate they should laugh them off and not bother to address them. Demonstrate that their policies will save rural America. By and large, progressive policies are very popular to most Americans.
Democrats used to be the party of the working class, and now the working class rejects them. It's high time to bring them back, but for that to happen, messaging has to change.
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You are definitely correct that sexism has a lot to do with this.
I am not naive. i realize outward appearing people skills doesn't hurt. So hire them. Apples to Oranges. Rick Majerus had Donny Daniels and Porter Moser, relationship people, etc...But really, many already have those things. They just don't get the chance out of fear.
But if you ask Bob Gates, former Defense Secretary, he would (and has) go on and on about how smart, prepared, effective, good H Clinton was when he worked with her, etc...
And H Clinton is just one example of women who had to put up with that stuff. Even now AOC has literally had many White Republican men in office sadly compliment her physical appearance while attacking her views. Or other women perceived to be less attractive are too this or that.
Some smart, capable, ambitious Women scare some sexist and mysogonistic White men. These types of men care about their $ and power. Out of fear they try to attack these women, a perceived smaller group, hoping they have the numbers backing them to keep their power over them etc...
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What about the Supreme Court? The president asked to intervene in a case about a ballot count extension in Pennsylvania that state Republicans twice requested the justices review, unsuccessfully. Mr. Blackman believes that the top court probably won’t agree to hear the case now, either, unless the vote count is so close that a decision is critical to certifying Pennsylvania’s winner. “They don’t unnecessarily decide difficult constitutional questions,” he said. Mr. Epps said the justices “have to think about their legacy and reputation,” especially the newest member of the court, confirmed quickly ahead of the election. “If I were Amy Coney Barrett, I would not want my 40 years to start with this case,” he said.
What happens next? The lawsuits can be effective for Mr. Trump without succeeding or being valid, Mr. Epps added, simply by showing that he’s fighting, providing fund-raising motivation and cultivating a narrative of unfair treatment. This could serve him well should the votes ultimately go against him and he moves on to lead a media empire or act as a Republican kingmaker (or candidate) in 2024.[/i]
I thought the comment about Barrett, which I bolded, was especially interesting and rings true.
Although the bolded is a great point. I don't think it will be relevant. Right now Biden is trending to have more than enough votes on Election Day. No need to even count the contested votes in PA. So no legitimacy for a lawsuit.
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GA and PA today:
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/QazAqN1wtdQRO/giphy.gif)
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Interestingly, some of the key the messages of Sanders and Warren in particular (financial reform, health care) play quite well with the working class. They might not be the best mediums for those messages, but speaking only to the issues, they're not why the Democrats have been losing the working class.
It's the old guard led by Pelosi, Schumer, Feinstein, Leahy, etc., that have done the real damage.
And, the other side has media partners that are very skilled at amplifying the "coastal elite" message, don't they?
I think we are saying the same thing. That is why I don't think having liberal policies is the issue. But being relatable and inspiring is.
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Biden and H Clinton are similar in beliefs, policies etc....Some people didn't like H Clinton because they are sexist and mysogonistic and believe women need to look a certain way, and contort themselves a certain way. Men do not have these same thresholds by a long shot. Reducing and eliminating this moving forward would be a good priority.
I agree with your point ... but I did laugh as I tried to imagine these poor women having to contort themselves into certain shapes or positions to get elected.
Now, if they had to comport themselves a certain way, that's a different story!
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Biden and H Clinton are similar in beliefs, policies etc....Some people didn't like H Clinton because they are sexist and mysogonistic and believe women need to look a certain way, and contort themselves a certain way. Men do not have these same thresholds by a long shot. Reducing and eliminating this moving forward would be a good priority.
Electorates are complex and varied. Aggressively reaching out to all aspects of it instead of just some is a key to improvement. We have discussed Hispanic voters previously for example. That is a very diverse, varied group that requires micro attention. Etc .m
Hilary Clinton is the exact person who is smart enough to lead this country really effectively, but not be able to have any self awareness to realize why people don't care for her. She has always seemed to be a person who isn't comfortable enough with who they are to actually be themselves. She had a carefully calculateda personality, temperament, and platform that made her entirely unrelatable to the average person. I'd be willing to bet that the people who actually know her as a person love her, but she never let that charisma shine through to the general public.
I give her a ton of credit for being able to deal with so much misogyny her entire life. But she just isn't terribly likeable. She is absolutely one of the smartest people in government, and probably the most brilliant woman to ever be in office. But she is nowhere as genuine as someone like Michelle Obama, Stacey Abrams, or Tammy Duckworth.
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I think we are saying the same thing. That is why I don't think having liberal policies is the issue. But being relatable and inspiring is.
Like Hards said, it's the messaging. In the past two years, Florida has passed felon enfranchisement and $15/hour minimum wage in ballot measures while also electing politicians like De Santis, Scott, & Trump that will (and have) deliberately worked to undermine those measures.
Even right wing voters want left wing policies.
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This is fascinating to me. I mean at a certain point you have to be straight forward with small town America "look a lot of your jobs and way of life is dying out" but you still need their vote and they won't accept that small town America is disappearing message. How do you fix it?
You invest in the future of these communities. There are severe structural problems in the country and everyone is refighting the culture wars from 50 years ago.
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Andrew Yang speaks the truth about the disconnect between Democrats and the working class. Worth watching the full clip, if you're interested.
"In there minds the Democratic party unfortunately has taken on this role of the coastal urban elites who are more concerned about policing various cultural issues than improving their way of life."
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1324517436469760007/pu/vid/1314x720/GcjgKXrd6QucRXMA.mp4?tag=10
That’s my guy
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You invest in the future of these communities. There are severe structural problems in the country and everyone is refighting the culture wars from 50 years ago.
I've been arguing for awhile.
You go into the coal and oil communities and tell them that, you understand their plight, and you want to make sure that their lives are not negatively impacted by policy changes, or economic evolution.
And yes, I'm going to cut oil and gas subsidies, but every dollar of that cut is going to go into a fund, to provide free college, new tech schools, money for new small businesses and startups, specifically ear-marked for oil and coal communities impacted by the changing economy. So that for every job lost in their communities is matched with two new opportunities.
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Like Hards said, it's the messaging. In the past two years, Florida has passed felon enfranchisement and $15/hour minimum wage in ballot measures while also electing politicians like De Santis, Scott, & Trump that will (and have) deliberately worked to undermine those measures.
Even right wing voters want left wing policies.
Yep a variety of things here. It isn't helped by some, not all media that is preoccupied with both sides instead of facts. Whatever happened to not covering things that are not credible? $ bottom line more important.
As Hards said, playing prevent defense isn't going to win you a lot of football games. Positively, proactively, aggressively, approach change and solutions to problems.
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I knew a number of people who did not like Trump but ‘couldn’t vote for Hillary’. Yet none could actually articulate why not.
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I've been arguing for awhile.
You go into the coal and oil communities and tell them that, you understand their plight, and you want to make sure that their lives are not negatively impacted by policy changes, or economic evolution.
And yes, I'm going to cut oil and gas subsidies, but every dollar of that cut is going to go into a fund, to provide free college, new tech schools, money for new small businesses and startups, specifically ear-marked for oil and coal communities impacted by the changing economy. So that for every job lost in their communities is matched with two new opportunities.
This is why a true Green New Deal (under any name) is so essential. Provide Green energy jobs to rural America that will struggle without old energy. Open up broadband nationwide. But even if they address rural concerns, I'm not sure that will change electoral minds because partisanship has made this all a cultural battle rather than an actual economic one.
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I knew a number of people who did not like Trump but ‘couldn’t vote for Hillary’. Yet none could actually articulate why not.
I knew A LOT of women who couldn't vote for HRC but could vote for Trump. Trump's indiscretions were waived off as "boys will be boys". HRC's deal with the devil that she made with Bill was seen as either weak or complicit in his issues.
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IMHO, it's important for the national psyche that Biden win Georgia. Win a state whose election officials and governor are Republican, and win Nevada as expected to get to 275, and then Pennsylvania doesn't really "matter" in the outcome.
That wouldn't stop Trump from whining and litigating, but it would render his baseless claims meaningless.
As for the Senate races, I have trouble believing that Dems will get out the vote with Trump not on the ballot. That sucks, but I think history has shown that to be true.
Conversely, without Trump directly on the ballot Republicans may have trouble getting people to vote a la 2018.
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Andrew Yang speaks the truth about the disconnect between Democrats and the working class. Worth watching the full clip, if you're interested.
"In there minds the Democratic party unfortunately has taken on this role of the coastal urban elites who are more concerned about policing various cultural issues than improving their way of life."
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1324517436469760007/pu/vid/1314x720/GcjgKXrd6QucRXMA.mp4?tag=10
He directly joined the Biden team, so I think you will see him in the Biden administration. I don't know where?
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Whichever side embraces economic populism will dominate.
Go look at the fox news exit polling. Conservative voters support progressive ideas overwhelmingly
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Hilary Clinton is the exact person who is smart enough to lead this country really effectively, but not be able to have any self awareness to realize why people don't care for her. She has always seemed to be a person who isn't comfortable enough with who they are to actually be themselves. She had a carefully calculateda personality, temperament, and platform that made her entirely unrelatable to the average person. I'd be willing to bet that the people who actually know her as a person love her, but she never let that charisma shine through to the general public.
I give her a ton of credit for being able to deal with so much misogyny her entire life. But she just isn't terribly likeable. She is absolutely one of the smartest people in government, and probably the most brilliant woman to ever be in office. But she is nowhere as genuine as someone like Michelle Obama, Stacey Abrams, or Tammy Duckworth.
Tammy Duckworth is incredibly smart as well as charismatic. I've was hoping like crazy to have her be the VP candidate just to see all the "patriots" on the right attacking a double amputee veteran.
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If trump's concern is voter fraud as evidenced by late arriving ballots and ballots that already haven't been counted, why isn't he attacking other states like california or alaska?
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Whichever side embraces economic populism will dominate.
Go look at the fox news exit polling. Conservative voters support progressive ideas overwhelmingly
They do, and yet socialist labels keep them from voting for the same candidates that support those popular ideas. I know there is a lot of talk about how Bernie wouldn't have won and that the progressive wing is killing the rest of the Democratic party, but I wonder if the case is the opposite. Do they need more from candidates like AOC and Elizabeth Warren that represent big structural change (similar to the "drain the swamp" promises of 4 years ago) or is tacking closer to the middle like Biden the answer?
Right now, I'm really not sure.
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Whichever side embraces economic populism will dominate.
Go look at the fox news exit polling. Conservative voters support progressive ideas overwhelmingly
I think that the Dems need to ensure that there is no slippery slope argument. Public option does equate to socialized health care. Gun regulations does not equate to taking your guns. And they desperately need to get separated from the abortion tie in. As long as abortion is on the table to be repealed or made more strict then many people won't care about other policies. Also the increasing cancel culture won't attract many small town or blue collar people.
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They do, and yet socialist labels keep them from voting for the same candidates that support those popular ideas. I know there is a lot of talk about how Bernie wouldn't have won and that the progressive wing is killing the rest of the Democratic party, but I wonder if the case is the opposite. Do they need more from candidates like AOC and Elizabeth Warren that represent big structural change (similar to the "drain the swamp" promises of 4 years ago) or is tacking closer to the middle like Biden the answer?
Right now, I'm really not sure.
Corporate Democrat party doesn't want/support progressive policy.
So, you're beating your head against a wall to try and get Dems to support those
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They do, and yet socialist labels keep them from voting for the same candidates that support those popular ideas. I know there is a lot of talk about how Bernie wouldn't have won and that the progressive wing is killing the rest of the Democratic party, but I wonder if the case is the opposite. Do they need more from candidates like AOC and Elizabeth Warren that represent big structural change (similar to the "drain the swamp" promises of 4 years ago) or is tacking closer to the middle like Biden the answer?
Right now, I'm really not sure.
More of a mix and balance, yes. You mention minimum wage, climate etc....there will always be some people not or less afraid of change, and/or early adopters of change than others. Name the topic. National minimum wage hasn't budged this past decade. In some individual states, and pockets it has. Even your Florida example isn't what I would call progressive considering it is 2020.
Black people, Women, on and on, historically slow to change to improve these topics. Some are slow to change because they don't want to make a mistake. (Mistakes of course can be again, changed and corrected, but the irrational fear is there w/some.) Some are slow to change to protect his own self interests. Looking at you White Men. etc...
So, you have people that see the patterns and needs for change early, some in the middle, some slower, some never. You need enough people w/progressive ideas to move the needle.
60% or more of Americans believe there is a climate change problem. That number was about 45% 10 years ago etc...it was there, but it took time to become more mainstream.
But we can't always be reactionary and slow to recognize things. And we can't have one group uninterested in compromise and problem solving and another overly so. That slows change as well.
Need to find, encourage and $ support people with good new ideas and that can problem solve. Embrace them.
There's an old saying that is incorrect, Defense wins Championships. That of course is not true. Balance wins. You could have a great offense and just good enough defense or vice versa. You could be equally balanced on all phases of the game etc...as well.
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Corporate Democrat party doesn't want/support progressive policy.
So, you're beating your head against a wall to try and get Dems to support those
This. Get. The. Lobbyists. Out.
As for abortion, you tell the Republican voters that are hung up on it that if the GOP wanted to ban abortions they could have done it back in 2016 when they controlled the Legislative and Executive branches. They literally could have written a law and passed it... but they didn't. Because they need USE YOUR FEAR AND ANGER against you to keep themselves in power. They don't care about abortion at all, they care about using your votes to pass legislation that lines their and their financial master's pockets. Stop letting them use your emotions against you.
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The Republicans still seem quite a bit less likely to be cannibalized by their extremes than the Dems are.
I thought that might be changing with the efforts of The Lincoln Project, Republican Voters Against Trump, etc. But I think that once the vast, vast, vast majority of Republicans entered the voting booth (or filled out their mail-in ballot), they couldn't bring themselves to vote for even a moderate Dem like Biden -- especially not with a running mate who is a perceived ultra-liberal (and a Black female ultra-liberal, at that).
Meanwhile, in 2016, the progressives were so upset with the way they felt Bernie was treated and so uninspired by Clinton, that they let Trump win the presidency. And so, Trump got to name 3 SCOTUS justices, each less progressive than the one before, and name a couple hundred other ultra-conservative judges all around the country.
The progressives sure showed the Dems, didn't they?!?!
Good luck getting any real progressive initiatives past those courts. The progressives didn't just cut off their noses to spite their faces (as the old saying goes), they cut off their heads to spite their bodies.
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I think that the Dems need to ensure that there is no slippery slope argument. Public option does equate to socialized health care. Gun regulations does not equate to taking your guns. And they desperately need to get separated from the abortion tie in. As long as abortion is on the table to be repealed or made more strict then many people won't care about other policies. Also the increasing cancel culture won't attract many small town or blue collar people.
My counterargument to the bolded is that the democrats should do more to quietly embolden the far left wing of the party, especialy congresspeople from safe districts and states. For the last 20 years, the Democrats have been trying to head off disingenuous slippery slope arguments before they come up, while far right Republicans have been legitimizing illegitmate ideas by just Yosemite Samm-ing in broad daylight. Time to fight that fire with fire. The Dems aren't going to prevent the slippery slope arguments, so just steer into them and pull the Overton Window left. It will temporarily endanger some Democrats in swing districts, but that's just the medicine you have to take to win the war.
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The further illustrate the "messaging" point, I was reminded in a tweet today that when Barack Obama first ran, he was rated the second-most liberal member of the senate. His opponent was a popular, likeable, centrist Republican.
And yet Obama won 365 electoral votes and was +10 million in the popular vote, in no small measure because of the support of the working class voters who didn't support Hillary.
Message > Policy
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The Republicans still seem quite a bit less likely to be cannibalized by their extremes than the Dems are.
I thought that might be changing with the efforts of The Lincoln Project, Republican Voters Against Trump, etc. But I think that once the vast, vast, vast majority of Republicans entered the voting booth (or filled out their mail-in ballot), they couldn't bring themselves to vote for even a moderate Dem like Biden -- especially not with a running mate who is a perceived ultra-liberal (and a Black female ultra-liberal, at that).
Meanwhile, in 2016, the progressives were so upset with the way they felt Bernie was treated and so uninspired by Clinton, that they let Trump win the presidency. And so, Trump got to name 3 SCOTUS justices, each less progressive than the one before, and name a couple hundred other ultra-conservative judges all around the country.
The progressives sure showed the Dems, didn't they?!?!
Good luck getting any real progressive initiatives past those courts. The progressives didn't just cut off their noses to spite their faces (as the old saying goes), they cut off their heads to spite their bodies.
Cool story, bro. Progressives didn't lose the election for Hilary.
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So with the latest out of Arizona, it looks as though Biden will hold on there. That means assuming he hold onto Nevada as well, AND that he wins PA, he has two routes to 270+ that don't include Georgia. Georgia might not survive a legit recount with that margin.
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He directly joined the Biden team, so I think you will see him in the Biden administration. I don't know where?
Commerce seems a natural fit.
Speaking of the cabinet, rumors circulating that Trump may soon fire SecDef Mark Esper.
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My guess on Trump's strategy moving forward:
1. Hope Arizona and Georgia end up in your totals. Then Biden's total would be at 279. Try to get the Supreme Court to throw out Detroit votes for not allowing proper poll watchers (extremely long-shot), to flip Michigan back.
2. If Arizona or Georgia also go Biden. Try the same strategy in both Detroit and Philly.
Ronna McDaniel is already pushing this logic/strategy.
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My guess on Trump's strategy moving forward:
1. Hope Arizona and Georgia end up in your totals. Then Biden's total would be at 279. Try to get the Supreme Court to throw out Detroit votes for not allowing proper poll watchers (extremely long-shot), to flip Michigan back.
2. If Arizona or Georgia also go Biden. Try the same strategy in both Detroit and Philly.
Ronna McDaniel is already pushing this logic/strategy.
It's an extreme long shot because he already HAD poll watchers in both locations, despite what he said yesterday.
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My guess on Trump's strategy moving forward:
1. Hope Arizona and Georgia end up in your totals. Then Biden's total would be at 279. Try to get the Supreme Court to throw out Detroit votes for not allowing proper poll watchers (extremely long-shot), to flip Michigan back.
2. If Arizona or Georgia also go Biden. Try the same strategy in both Detroit and Philly.
Ronna McDaniel is already pushing this logic/strategy.
It's a pipe dream. 150k votes aren't getting tossed in Michigan.
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Three Oh Six.
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It's an extreme long shot because he already HAD poll watchers in both locations, despite what he said yesterday.
I agree. In Philly their claim is they made them stand more than 6 feet away, which nullified their independent observer ability. Absurd.
But Trump will be out campaigning next week rallying troops to his cause and pushing this through courts. The courts won't have receptive ears, but his people will buy in hook, line, and sinker.
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This. Get. The. Lobbyists. Out.
As for abortion, you tell the Republican voters that are hung up on it that if the GOP wanted to ban abortions they could have done it back in 2016 when they controlled the Legislative and Executive branches. They literally could have written a law and passed it... but they didn't. Because they need USE YOUR FEAR AND ANGER against you to keep themselves in power. They don't care about abortion at all, they care about using your votes to pass legislation that lines their and their financial master's pockets. Stop letting them use your emotions against you.
Roe v Wade says abortion is a right protected by the Constitution. Any federal legislation that would outright ban abortions, as you suggest, would be unconstitutional. (Roe does leave room for some limits, but not a ban).
A majority Republican congress could no sooner ban abortions than it could take away women's right to vote or re-institute segregation. It would require a Constitutional amendment.
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Commerce seems a natural fit.
Speaking of the cabinet, rumors circulating that Trump may soon fire SecDef Mark Esper.
I was thinking Commerce or Treasury in some capacity.
I read that Esper had already drafted his resignation letter and before he did his last act was to send the plan to rename all military bases currently named for Confederates.
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Roe v Wade says abortion is a right protected by the Constitution. Any federal legislation that would outright ban abortions, as you suggest, would be unconstitutional. (Roe does leave room for some limits, but not a ban).
A majority Republican congress could no sooner ban abortions than it could take away women's right to vote or re-institute segregation. It would require a Constitutional amendment.
Ah, so you're saying that there is no chance abortion becomes illegal in the US. ;) ;D :D ;) ;D
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It’s over. The moonbats can peddle their vast conspiracies until the sun explodes, won’t matter.
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I agree. In Philly their claim is they made them stand more than 6 feet away, which nullified their independent observer ability. Absurd.
But Trump will be out campaigning next week rallying troops to his cause and pushing this through courts. The courts won't have receptive ears, but his people will buy in hook, line, and sinker.
There's no hanging chads this time where it's confusing as to who the vote went for.
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Ah, so you're saying that there is no chance abortion becomes illegal in the US. ;) ;D :D ;) ;D
My other country, Poland, is going through this right now.
The "Law and Justice Party" was pushing through a law that outright bans abortion with no exceptions. So many people have been loudly protesting all over the country that they have pulled for now. They basically have the equivalent of Mike Pence in charge.
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Ah, so you're saying that there is no chance abortion becomes illegal in the US. ;) ;D :D ;) ;D
No, I'm saying the Republicans in 2016 couldn't have outlawed abortion like you suggested. The whole point of Roe is that it prevents states and the federal government from passing legislation making abortion illegal, the same as they can't pass legislation making Buddhism illegal or same-sex marriage illegal.
It would require either a reversal of Roe or an amendment.
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No, I'm saying the Republicans in 2016 couldn't have outlawed abortion like you suggested. The whole point of Roe is that it prevents states and the federal government from passing legislation making abortion illegal, the same as they can't pass legislation making Buddhism illegal or same-sex marriage illegal.
It would require either a reversal of Roe or an amendment.
Of course the Congress or state legislatures can do the bolded. They can pass legislation to do pretty much anything.
That doesn't mean said legislation would stand up to a court test however.
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My other country, Poland, is going through this right now.
The "Law and Justice Party" was pushing through a law that outright bans abortion with no exceptions. So many people have been loudly protesting all over the country that they have pulled for now. They basically have the equivalent of Mike Pence in charge.
Not to bring up a long dead argument but Hards has made it clear to me that if you're American you can't have a "second country" to have pride in. Whether it's citizens of said country, living in said country, married into it, etc etc. so he might not buy into your second country argument.
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Of course the Congress or state legislatures can do the bolded. They can pass legislation to do pretty much anything.
That doesn't mean said legislation would stand up to a court test however.
I mean, if you want to be pedantic and intentionally miss the point, OK.
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No, I'm saying the Republicans in 2016 couldn't have outlawed abortion like you suggested. The whole point of Roe is that it prevents states and the federal government from passing legislation making abortion illegal, the same as they can't pass legislation making Buddhism illegal or same-sex marriage illegal.
It would require either a reversal of Roe or an amendment.
Just to clarify. This is because they rooted it in protecting free speech right? It's been a long time since I read the cliff notes on the case.
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I mean, if you want to be pedantic and intentionally miss the point, OK.
My point is that I don't think fear of Roe v. Wade is why Republicans don't do something on the national level against abortion.
Fear of the backlash from suburban, white women is.
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Just to clarify. This is because they rooted it in protecting free speech right? It's been a long time since I read the cliff notes on the case.
Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment
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My recollection is that Roe was based on Griswold vs Connecticut, which established the right to privacy as being more or less the ‘penumbra’ of rights granted in the Bill of Rights.
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Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment
Got it thanks
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My recollection is that Roe was based on Griswold vs Connecticut, which established the right to privacy as being more or less the ‘penumbra’ of rights granted in the Bill of Rights.
Which was based on the Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment.
Pretty much every court decided civil liberty case is based on the same clause including Brown v. Board of Ed, Loving v. Virginia, and Obergefell v. Hodges
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Not to bring up a long dead argument but Hards has made it clear to me that if you're American you can't have a "second country" to have pride in. Whether it's citizens of said country, living in said country, married into it, etc etc. so he might not buy into your second country argument.
Sure you can. Makes sense if you're a direct immigrant, or your parents are. Beyond that, it's a strange way to define your personality. I have a coworker whose 4 grandparents all have VERY German last names, yet she is very proud of her Irish heritage. Makes zero sense to me, but I guess whatever floats your boat.
BUT THANKS FOR BRINGING THIS UP AGAIN.
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Of course the Congress or state legislatures can do the bolded. They can pass legislation to do pretty much anything.
That doesn't mean said legislation would stand up to a court test however.
Might now.
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My point is that I don't think fear of Roe v. Wade is why Republicans don't do something on the national level against abortion.
Fear of the backlash from suburban, white women is.
I don’t think Roe will ever be overturned...it’s too valuable to the GOP. Without that, what do they have to attract single issue evangelicals?
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I don’t think Roe will ever be overturned...it’s too valuable to the GOP. Without that, what do they have to attract single issue evangelicals?
That and the fact it would be mostly meaningless. Overturning Roe just puts the decision to the states, the majority of which aren't going to enact a ban (77 percent of Americans support Roe, including 59 percent of Republicans).
So, yeah, some women might have to drive from Alabama to Florida or Kansas to Colorado for the procedure (which is unfair), but it's not going to end abortion.
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I don’t think Roe will ever be overturned...it’s too valuable to the GOP. Without that, what do they have to attract single issue evangelicals?
If you want a trip down memory lane...
Democrats imposing Sharia Law
"Happy Holidays!"/War on Christmas
Communism = antitheism
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Cool story, bro. Progressives didn't lose the election for Hilary.
Hillary ran a poor campaign and she is primarily to blame for her own loss. However, if you don't think progressives contributed quite a bit to the loss -- and probably would have been able to help her cross the finish line despite herself if they were motivated to keep a cancer like Trump out of the WH -- I don't know what to say.
Thousands upon thousands of progressives either stayed home or voted for Jill Effen Stein. They can congratulate themselves for their role on those 3 new SCOTUS justices.
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Sure you can. Makes sense if you're a direct immigrant, or your parents are. Beyond that, it's a strange way to define your personality. I have a coworker whose 4 grandparents all have VERY German last names, yet she is very proud of her Irish heritage. Makes zero sense to me, but I guess whatever floats your boat.
BUT THANKS FOR BRINGING THIS UP AGAIN.
I’m with George Carlin in this one. https://youtu.be/mIG4-03Gru4
My wife is first gen Filipina. She feels greater identity with her heritage than I do mind, but much because she’s been seen as “different” most of her life. A MU some referred to her as “that Chinese girl.” Me, being Scot and Irish (a McMac) nobody ever judged me based upon heritage, so it’s very different for non-white groups.
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Hillary ran a poor campaign and she is primarily to blame for her own loss. However, if you don't think progressives contributed quite a bit to the loss -- and probably would have been able to help her cross the finish line despite herself if they were motivated to keep a cancer like Trump out of the WH -- I don't know what to say.
Thousands upon thousands of progressives either stayed home or voted for Jill Effen Stein. They can congratulate themselves for their role on those 3 new SCOTUS justices.
12 percent of Bernie primary voters voted for Trump in 2016 to “prove a point” and “start a revolution” too. That was the difference in WI, MI, and PA.
If you want a trip down memory lane...
Democrats imposing Sharia Law
"Happy Holidays!"/War on Christmas
Communism = antitheism
None of those have been as successful as abortion though. It’s been huge in keeping Catholics with the GOP as well.
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I’m with George Carlin in this one. https://youtu.be/mIG4-03Gru4
My wife is first gen Filipina. She feels greater identity with her heritage than I do mind, but much because she’s been seen as “different” most of her life. A MU some referred to her as “that Chinese girl.” Me, being Scot and Irish (a McMac) nobody ever judged me based upon heritage, so it’s very different for non-white groups.
I was just teasing Hards because he once told me to cut the Irish pride which I took to mean cut out my second citizenship. As opposed to your average 6th gen John [insert Irish surname] from any south side neighborhood around the country. I don't honestly care anymore but it was too good an opportunity to pass up. Again wasn't trying to hijack thread only trying to tease when it was available.
So anyways. Any concern about the military ballots in Georgia breaking so hard for Trump they'd swing the state back to Red?
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Good for Fox News' Eric Shawn, who went on air today to say the Trump campaign is lying about what's happening in Philly.
Hope he still has a job next week.
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/that-is-a-lie-fox-news-anchor-dismantles-a-series-of-trump-conspiracy-theories-about-election-cheating/
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That’s my guy
Me, too. A Yang/Tulsi Gabbard ticket would have been my ideal ticket (Despite my insult of Kamala, I am not a misogynist, nor a Republican).
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I was just teasing Hards because he once told me to cut the Irish pride which I took to mean cut out my second citizenship. As opposed to your average 6th gen John [insert Irish surname] from any south side neighborhood around the country. I don't honestly care anymore but it was too good an opportunity to pass up. Again wasn't trying to hijack thread only trying to tease when it was available.
So anyways. Any concern about the military ballots in Georgia breaking so hard for Trump they'd swing the state back to Red?
There is less support for Trump among the rank and file military members than many realize.
But, with PA it won’t matter
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12 percent of Bernie primary voters voted for Trump in 2016 to “prove a point” and “start a revolution” too. That was the difference in WI, MI, and PA.
None of those have been as successful as abortion though. It’s been huge in keeping Catholics with the GOP as well.
Yep. Three states that were decided by a razor's edge needed every vote. Unless Dems are able to pack the court at some time in the future, the cost of progressives making their point is a SCOTUS that will give progressives zero victories for next generation or two.
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Hillary ran a poor campaign and she is primarily to blame for her own loss. However, if you don't think progressives contributed quite a bit to the loss -- and probably would have been able to help her cross the finish line despite herself if they were motivated to keep a cancer like Trump out of the WH -- I don't know what to say.
Thousands upon thousands of progressives either stayed home or voted for Jill Effen Stein. They can congratulate themselves for their role on those 3 new SCOTUS justices.
This implies that they were ever voting for Hilary. She and the DNC are responsible for getting those progressives to vote. This is another huge problem with Democrats, they take voting blocks for granted. Why should people who are fundamentally opposed to war vote for Hilary Clinton? Her track record is littered with endless wars and dead bodies. "Bernie bros" saw a few things they liked that Donald Trump offered that were better than what Hilary had, and so they broke for him. I don't blame them. Democrats assume they have votes, and don't work for them. Again, message.
Just so it's on the record, I voted for HRC despite my reservations.
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I saw a short story that Democrats can somewhat thank the vile disgusting coal slurper, Don Blankenship, for Georgia. He ran on the Constitution Party ticket for president and received like 2,800 votes in Georgia.
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I saw a short story that Democrats can somewhat thank the vile disgusting coal slurper, Don Blankenship, for Georgia. He ran on the Constitution Party ticket for president and received like 2,800 votes in Georgia.
Again, this implies that those votes would have broken 100% for DJT.
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Yep. Three states that were decided by a razor's edge needed every vote. Unless Dems are able to pack the court at some time in the future, the cost of progressives making their point is a SCOTUS that will give progressives zero victories for next generation or two.
Would court packing be received well by the public? I can't imagine it would be and might set us up for failure later on.
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I was just teasing Hards because he once told me to cut the Irish pride which I took to mean cut out my second citizenship. As opposed to your average 6th gen John [insert Irish surname] from any south side neighborhood around the country. I don't honestly care anymore but it was too good an opportunity to pass up. Again wasn't trying to hijack thread only trying to tease when it was available.
So anyways. Any concern about the military ballots in Georgia breaking so hard for Trump they'd swing the state back to Red?
Military ballots are usually more blue than red. I don't know if that hold true for Georgia though.
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"Bernie bros" saw a few things they liked that Donald Trump offered that were better than what Hilary had, and so they broke for him. I don't blame them. Democrats assume they have votes, and don't work for them. Again, message.
Jeopardizing democracy to own the not-lib-enoughs.
How'd that turn out for the Bernie Bros? Their candidate did substantially worse in 2020 and the country is a mess. They sure taught the Democratic Party, alright.
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Jeopardizing democracy to own the not-lib-enoughs.
How'd that turn out for the Bernie Bros? Their candidate did substantially worse in 2020 and the country is a mess. They sure taught the Democratic Party, alright.
"Get in line even if you don't agree with our policies" is a bad way to govern, and a sure way to lose. Unless, you're a Republican.
ORRRRRRRRRRR the DNC and HRC could have fed the Bernie bros some red meat and then ignored them after the election. I'm just saying that I don't blame hard line ideologues for sticking to their guns. It was entirely foreseeable, but as usual, the Democratic party ignored that bloc and they saw something they liked in DJT.
Sucks to suck
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Would court packing be received well by the public? I can't imagine it would be and might set us up for failure later on.
I thought I saw a polling story that people were not happy with the Merrick Garland stunt then forcing Amy Coney Barret through and that Court Reform would be welcome.
But I could be misremembering and I would have to try and re-find. Could be that people were for court reform but that meant term limits or other changes instead.
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Would court packing be received well by the public? I can't imagine it would be and might set us up for failure later on.
Who cares? I assure you, that if the roles were reversed, Republicans would be packing that court. The high road seems to just lead the Dems off a higher cliff.
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Military ballots are usually more blue than red. I don't know if that hold true for Georgia though.
Military Times' poll was 41% to 37% pro-Biden among active-duty troops. Trumps disrespect of the military didn't really fly with them.
Veterans, on the other hand, were pro-Trump as an aggregate. The older ones, 55+ years old, polled for trump ~60/40. Young ones were pro biden at 50/40. Lots more older vets, though.
Female/Male confidence was telling. 60% of female vets had No Confidence in Trump as Commander in Chief. Misogyny really hurt the guy. Thankfully he probably doesn't know what that means so my comment won't hurt him any further.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/10/26/poll-trump-backed-by-majority-of-veterans-but-not-younger-ones/
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Who cares? I assure you, that if the roles were reversed, Republicans would be packing that court. The high road seems to just lead the Dems off a higher cliff.
Agreed.
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Would court packing be received well by the public? I can't imagine it would be and might set us up for failure later on.
Court REFORM. Words matter. And if you add justices, but do so in a way that insures future justices are to be picked to avoid partisan hacks, you can bring the public in.
For instance, expand the court to 12 first to balance it on partisan lines, then expand to 15 and say that going forward, all appointees passing the Senate must be universally agreed on by sitting SCOTUS members. That way presidents of both parties would have to make SCOTUS appointments that actually looked at fair decisions rather than partisan lines in their thought process.
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Court REFORM. Words matter. And if you add justices, but do so in a way that insures future justices are to be picked to avoid partisan hacks, you can bring the public in.
For instance, expand the court to 12 first to balance it on partisan lines, then expand to 15 and say that going forward, all appointees passing the Senate must be universally agreed on by sitting SCOTUS members. That way presidents of both parties would have to make SCOTUS appointments that actually looked at fair decisions rather than partisan lines in their thought process.
Requiring the consent of all justices would require a Constitutional amendment. And I'm not sure it's a good idea anyway.
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Requiring the consent of all justices would require a Constitutional amendment. And I'm not sure it's a good idea anyway.
Set term limits and/or a mandatory retirement age.
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Set term limits and/or a mandatory retirement age.
Which would require the same amendment.
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Out-of-state, Q-Anon terrorists with guns try to make trouble at Philly vote-counting site, but thankfully are intercepted by the police.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/06/philadelphia-attack-plot-vote-count-election/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2c900c6%2F5fa586009d2fda0efb5ebb66%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F20%2F69%2Fb3563592a6e9cbfdd26e210ad7669201
In general, though, I've been pleased at how few of these kinds of things there have been. So far, anyway.
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Three Oh Six.
I understand that qualifies as a landslide.
(https://images2.imgbox.com/4a/e4/fGPwlOea_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/fGPwlOea)
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Military Times' poll was 41% to 37% pro-Biden among active-duty troops. Trumps disrespect of the military didn't really fly with them.
Veterans, on the other hand, were pro-Trump as an aggregate. The older ones, 55+ years old, polled for trump ~60/40. Young ones were pro biden at 50/40. Lots more older vets, though.
Female/Male confidence was telling. 60% of female vets had No Confidence in Trump as Commander in Chief. Misogyny really hurt the guy. Thankfully he probably doesn't know what that means so my comment won't hurt him any further.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/10/26/poll-trump-backed-by-majority-of-veterans-but-not-younger-ones/
The 41% to 37% BIden poll was done before The Atlantic article came out where Trump called military members "Losers and Suckers."
There are up to, meaning possible 8900 outstanding combined overseas military and non military ballots in Georgia. Non-military ballots are expected to favor Biden. Military are expected to be a mix. 17k of these were already counted and reported before today.
Today is last day they are allowed to arrive to be counted, and, they must have been post marked no later than Tuesday. The total added military/overseas ballots could be anywhere from zero to 8900 or in between. If they arrive later than today they will not count.
4800 Gwinnett County.....where Biden leads 58-40 thus far.....will increase Biden's lead today. The numbers for the small counties are just that, small and mixed.
Biden is expected to win Georgia and have 306 Electoral Votes.
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Progressives cost Dems 2016? We're going to do this again?
If a party/candidate wants someone's vote, they need to do something to make that individual want to vote for them.
Carrot, not stick.
"I'm not Trump/republican/whomever" is not a good incentive to vote. DNC/HRC/Biden all have had opportunity to reach out and involve the progressives with legislation aimed at them. But they don't. So why should a progressive vote for someone who doesn't represent them?
Dems (corporate neoliberal) will never vote/push progressive economic legislation as they listen to wall street money and silicon valley technocrats. Dems (congressional progressives/the squad) fall in line with the neolibs and are significantly outnumbered. GOP will never push for economic populist ideas because they won't leave trickle down economics.
New party, anyone?
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Will Trump try to pardon himself? Flynn?
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Progressives cost Dems 2016? We're going to do this again?
If a party/candidate wants someone's vote, they need to do something to make that individual want to vote for them.
Carrot, not stick.
I agree. If a candidate doesn't represent your values, or at least not enough of them to earn your support, do not vote for that person.
But to vote for the other candidate, one who opposes nearly everything in which you claim to believe, just because you want to have a ballot booth temper tantrum is stupid and destructive.
I ask again, Bernie Bros, how did it work out for you? You got four years of Trump tearing down what you hold dear and then your candidate did worse in the next election cycle.
Do they give pyrrhic victory trophies? Cause they've got one coming.
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Will Trump try to pardon himself? Flynn?
A president can't pardon someone who hasn't been charged and convicted, so no on Trump.
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Tomorrow's Washington Post piece coming out spoke with 42 people inside the West Wing. Reality is settling in there about Biden's victory, and, many are looking for jobs. They are doing this while managing DT.
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Progressives cost Dems 2016? We're going to do this again?
Yeah I'm truly at a loss that the lesson we're taking from watching the dynamics of the two parties is "better to clear the field for one candidate and then try to guilt everyone into getting behind them with fire and brimstone threats about how bad the other candidate is." Primary battles for the soul of a party aren't just good in the long term, they've proven beneficial to the candidate in the general time after time. Trump in 2016, Obama in 2008, Bush in 2000. Elections to replace a termed out president favor hotly-contested primaries. Heck even challengers to incumbents like Bill Clinton and now Biden have arguably benefitted from the newsworthiness of the primaries. Those primaries don't damage the candidate that wins - they remind everyone how big the tent of the party can be. The way in which the Democratic establishiment dealt with Bernie in 2016 made their tent appear smaller, because they were more paranoid about getting swing votes that are actually a myth than increasing turnout among their own base. Turning back on the part of the base that didn't turn out mistakes the symptom for the disease.
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A president can't pardon someone who hasn't been charged and convicted, so no on Trump.
So he'll have Barr charge him and then pardon himself?
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I agree. If a candidate doesn't represent your values, or at least not enough of them to earn your support, do not vote for that person.
But to vote for the other candidate, one who opposes nearly everything in which you claim to believe, just because you want to have a ballot booth temper tantrum is stupid and destructive.
I ask again, Bernie Bros, how did it work out for you? You got four years of Trump tearing down what you hold dear and then your candidate did worse in the next election cycle.
Do they give pyrrhic victory trophies? Cause they've got one coming.
Some of them will certainly say yes. Sometimes you have to burn it all down to start over. The party is too moderate, so you let the moderates have their fun. When it blows up then you say, "See, I told you that you can't ignore us." The country will certainly survive 4 years of Trump... and it did.
Who won their elections this time? Progressives. Who lost their seats? Blue dogs and moderates. Obviously, where these races are matter. But now that we've seen the results of what happens when the DNC runs moderates for these seats, maybe try something different.
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A president can't pardon someone who hasn't been charged and convicted, so no on Trump.
Didn't Ford pardon Nixon for any crimes "he may have committed"?
There are predictions that Trump will resign at the last minute, an have Pence issue a similar pardon.
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OK folks. The troop of statisticians at MUScoop has been working around the clock since Tuesday, and thy tell me a winner has been decided.
Happy to have so many members that participated by voting, and we're happy that the discourse here has mostly been civil.
Nonetheless, we do try to avoid too much political talk, and it's time to shut this thread down.
Goodnight, and [religious deity of your choice] bless.