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Author Topic: Kenosha  (Read 73341 times)

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2020, 11:29:25 AM »
The irony here is that according to witnesses, the man who was shot here wasn't directly involved in the incident that brought police there in the first place. Apparently he was trying to break up a fight.
Obviously there are a lot of unanswered questions here, and the cop's actions may end being justified. But regardless, it's troubling.

I'm with you, don't believe your lyin eyes.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 01:20:24 PM by vogue65 »

Coleman

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2020, 11:32:03 AM »
::) I'm not saying it was justified. Yet, i did see a man walking away from the cops when guns were on him. We need more answers.

Walking away from a cop is not, has never been, and never will be, a justifiable reason for deadly use of force.

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2020, 11:33:20 AM »
Until the day comes that unarmed black men aren't shot in the back by police, I support BLM.

And to you who say 'Marxism', I say to you that racism is a far worse scourge.

Marx"ism" died a long time ago.
Get with the program.
Dictators, oligarchs, war lords, and social democracies are here. 

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2020, 11:35:37 AM »
That's one of the worst caught on video police shootings I've ever seen. Every part of this is terrible. I'm sure in their report it says something about resisting arrest as that seems to be a constant in every police report post shooting.

I agree, even if true, why is resisting a capital crime?

MU82

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #54 on: August 24, 2020, 11:36:07 AM »
Gonna be a rough night in the streets of this country tonight.

This conduct by police isn’t going to stop until we make it stop. What we need to figure out quickly is how to do this nonviolently. Cuz we are on the edge right now and it can go either way.

We have a leader who has shown he is ruthless with peaceful protesters. We also know he won’t step up to try deal with these systemic issues.

We are on the edge of the cliff - at this moment, today. The next step will be taken. Will it be to step away or to go over the edge.

This will not be a Kenosha story. It is going to affect the entire country (and world) in a serious, serious way.

Yep.

Folks will decry any violence that takes place because of this. And obviously, none of us want violence. But the violence that took place after the Floyd situation actually WORKED. It sent the message: "This time is different. We're not just gonna protest for a couple days and then forget about it." It made lots of people -- importantly, lots of white people -- examine what is going on in this country.

So no, I am not advocating violence. I do understand it, though. When you are pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed, you sometimes feel you must push back hard.

Here in Charlotte, where the RNC started today, things are on edge. The emperor, he of the "we must dominate" and "when the looting starts the shooting starts" rhetoric and the overt call for cops to use violence, is in town. There already has been unrest and arrests. 

“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2020, 11:39:08 AM »
Since your triggered soul can't help yourself...I'll indulge you:  Please go quote where I've posted white males are oppressed.

Unlike you, I simply don't associate the actions of individual police officers with the entirety of the profession, nor the entirety of their race. 

As I've posted before, my solution to this continued problem of officer involved shootings is to simply make the entire police department Black.  Simple solution.

Not a solution, there are bad black cops also.
The solution in NYC was to hire Irish cops, who proceeded to persecute the Irish. 
It's an old trick of the colonizers used all over the world, India for example.

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2020, 11:40:17 AM »
I don't (want to) know the prior dialogue that lead to this suggestion or how serious its meant to be, but if the demographics of police departments reflected the communities they serve, a vast majority of these problems would disappear.

Wrong, the fish rots from the top down.

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #57 on: August 24, 2020, 11:41:58 AM »
I see an unarmed guy getting capped 7 times in the back from point blank distance. What do you see?

And if they were worried about the presence of a weapon, they easily could have cuffed him prior to that. Or used a taser instead of likely lethal force.

Even a good old pistol whip.

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #58 on: August 24, 2020, 11:43:50 AM »
::) I'm not saying it was justified. Yet, i did see a man walking away from the cops when guns were on him. We need more answers.

If the so-called legal profession, and the socalled criminal justice ststem, can't fix this obvious problem, God Help America.

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #59 on: August 24, 2020, 11:45:26 AM »
We do. Like why did the cops need to have guns drawn on an unarmed individual?

That's easy, because they can.  Second, they are terrified cowards.  Bullies tend to act in gangs.

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2020, 11:48:50 AM »
Ok...so a man acted irresponsibly or defiantly at worst. To which the officers were completely fine with calmly doing nothing but point their guns at him. 3-4 officers with their full compliment of support and gear and they did NOTHING. Doesn’t matter what was in his front seat, them allowing him to get there, moving as slowly and non aggressively as he was, shows a complete incompetence and complacency at very best

That's why my local cops carry lay down weapons in their attache cases.

Jockey

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #61 on: August 24, 2020, 11:50:16 AM »
If it looks bad it is bad.


What was going before smart phones?


That’s a scary thought. To think these actions were anything but commonplace is to have your heads in the sand.


MUfan12

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #62 on: August 24, 2020, 11:51:41 AM »
I really want to know how this played out prior to the shooting. He has an arrest warrant out on him based on a CCAP search. Were they going to bring him in? Maybe that's why he went to the car, to get a phone to call someone to take his kids?

Of course, there's no bodycam footage. So who knows.

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #63 on: August 24, 2020, 11:54:54 AM »
Gonna be a rough night in the streets of this country tonight.

This conduct by police isn’t going to stop until we make it stop. What we need to figure out quickly is how to do this nonviolently. Cuz we are on the edge right now and it can go either way.
Ft
We have a leader who has shown he is ruthless with peaceful protesters. We also know he won’t step up to try deal with these systemic issues.

We are on the edge of the cliff - at this moment, today. The next step will be taken. Will it be to step away or to go over the edge.

This will not be a Kenosha story. It is going to affect the entire country (and world) in a serious, serious way.

Kenosha and Wisconsin are considered the backwater of the rest of the civilized world.   The problem is that Wisconsinites love it. 

This shooting could have happened in dozens of Wisconsin towns. 

We spend too much time worrying about our image in the world than justice.

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #64 on: August 24, 2020, 11:57:43 AM »
Yep.

Folks will decry any violence that takes place because of this. And obviously, none of us want violence. But the violence that took place after the Floyd situation actually WORKED. It sent the message: "This time is different. We're not just gonna protest for a couple days and then forget about it." It made lots of people -- importantly, lots of white people -- examine what is going on in this country.

So no, I am not advocating violence. I do understand it, though. When you are pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed, you sometimes feel you must push back hard.

Here in Charlotte, where the RNC started today, things are on edge. The emperor, he of the "we must dominate" and "when the looting starts the shooting starts" rhetoric and the overt call for cops to use violence, is in town. There already has been unrest and arrests.

Good luck, and well said. 

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #65 on: August 24, 2020, 11:59:30 AM »
I really want to know how this played out prior to the shooting. He has an arrest warrant out on him based on a CCAP search. Were they going to bring him in? Maybe that's why he went to the car, to get a phone to call someone to take his kids?

Of course, there's no bodycam footage. So who knows.

Who cares, he is dead or dying?

Elonsmusk

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #66 on: August 24, 2020, 12:02:41 PM »
Gonna be a rough night in the streets of this country tonight.

This conduct by police isn’t going to stop until we make it stop. What we need to figure out quickly is how to do this nonviolently. Cuz we are on the edge right now and it can go either way.

We have a leader who has shown he is ruthless with peaceful protesters. We also know he won’t step up to try deal with these systemic issues.

We are on the edge of the cliff - at this moment, today. The next step will be taken. Will it be to step away or to go over the edge.

This will not be a Kenosha story. It is going to affect the entire country (and world) in a serious, serious way.

What are you talking about.  There was nothing peaceful about what happened in Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, NYC.  Protesting is fine, but to suggest it was all peaceful is ridiculous.

Portland can't get its "peaceful" protesters out of the streets after 80+ days.  We were told when the Feds left, all would be well - even though it wasn't before their arrival.  And of course, not shockingly after they left, the protesting didn't stop.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #67 on: August 24, 2020, 12:29:14 PM »
Heresy only:

Police were said to hear he was returning to his vehicle to get his gun.


Even if that is true, there were plenty of things they should have done before resorting to shooting him in the back.

C'mon, man.

vogue65

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #68 on: August 24, 2020, 12:38:03 PM »
I was adding to my comment. Response noted.  ;)

SOP, call for backup, draw your Glock, shoot the mother, check his rap sheet, and perhaps laydown a weapon, then call your union lawyer.

If you think of it, there is a lot to think about, call an ambulance, but don't hurry too much.

Coleman

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #69 on: August 24, 2020, 12:42:21 PM »
What are you talking about.  There was nothing peaceful about what happened in Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, NYC.  Protesting is fine, but to suggest it was all peaceful is ridiculous.

Portland can't get its "peaceful" protesters out of the streets after 80+ days.  We were told when the Feds left, all would be well - even though it wasn't before their arrival.  And of course, not shockingly after they left, the protesting didn't stop.

What was happening in Washington DC, where protesters were gassed for a photo op with a bible and a church used as props, was undeniably peaceful.

MU82

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #70 on: August 24, 2020, 12:52:23 PM »
What are you talking about.  There was nothing peaceful about what happened in Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, NYC.  Protesting is fine, but to suggest it was all peaceful is ridiculous.

Portland can't get its "peaceful" protesters out of the streets after 80+ days.  We were told when the Feds left, all would be well - even though it wasn't before their arrival.  And of course, not shockingly after they left, the protesting didn't stop.

What are YOU talking about?

Less than 2 minutes after your emperor finished a Rose Garden speech in which he said he was "an ally of all peaceful protesters," he had his militia attack the peaceful protesters in Lafayette Square. He needed the park cleared so he could walk through it in an "Eff you, I'm the effen Emperor" show of strength, a walk he concluded by standing in front of the church and holding a bible upside-down. Even Pat Robertson called it cruel and blasphemous.

Just the most grotesque example, and one that could go a long way toward costing him this election. Only the most mindless, easily conned sheeple try to defend it, and it's been a rallying cry for all those who want a return to decency in this country. His opponents -- including Republican groups -- have used it extensively in attack ads, which is smart.

In Portland, your emperor's militia infamously tear-gassed a "wall of moms" who were peacefully protesting, attacked and injured a veteran who was just trying to talk to them, and even tear-gassed the mayor, who was part of a totally non-violent protest. Among the many other peaceful protesters he had attacked.

Some other protests, in Portland and elsewhere, indeed became violent, but just about all of those turned even more violent after he dispatched his militia because the protests then became about him. He had successfully (albeit briefly) deflected attention away from his horrific handling of the coronavirus.

Oh, and there have been several examples of white supremacists -- dressed nearly head to toe in black -- trying to make it look like Black folks were looting and committing violent acts.

The vast majority of protests in this country have been peaceful. It's been especially heartening to see all the white, suburban folks taking part, realizing how racism has ratcheted up significantly under your emperor's watch.

They've been peaceful despite your emperor's attempts to gin things up in his pathetic attempt to frame himself as the "law and order president."

Which is pretty amazing given how many criminals he has surrounded himself with. We need a scorecard to identify all the felons in this corrupt lunatic's inner circle.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 12:55:30 PM by MU82 »
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

cheebs09

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #71 on: August 24, 2020, 12:56:00 PM »
Is there a justification for no body cameras? Do not all officers have them? As others have mentioned, without the cell phone video, no one would know about this.

Feels like penalties need to be harsh if you have a body camera but don’t use it.

Coleman

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #72 on: August 24, 2020, 01:04:07 PM »
Is there a justification for no body cameras? Do not all officers have them? As others have mentioned, without the cell phone video, no one would know about this.

Feels like penalties need to be harsh if you have a body camera but don’t use it.

Depends on the department. Sadly, not all have them. Should be required to carry a gun, and required to be turned on to use a gun.

cheebs09

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #73 on: August 24, 2020, 01:07:41 PM »
Depends on the department. Sadly, not all have them. Should be required to carry a gun, and required to be turned on to use a gun.

Thanks for the info. Just saw a reddit post saying Kenosha PD gets them next year.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Kenosha
« Reply #74 on: August 24, 2020, 01:13:12 PM »
Depends on the department. Sadly, not all have them. Should be required to carry a gun, and required to be turned on to use a gun.


With everything that has happened the last few years, it is inexcusable that always-on body cams aren't mandatory nationwide. You would think that 'good' cops would want them, because if they really are doing the right thing, the footage could exonerate them.

And as several here have said, it really is chilling to imagine what we never even heard about in the days before cellphones.

#BLM