Kenosha

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'm not saying it was justified. Yet, i did see a man walking away from the cops when guns were on him. We need more answers.

I agree we need more answers.

But walking away from the cops isn't a justification for shooting someone. 

[MUfan12]

I'm not saying it was justified. Yet, i did see a man walking away from the cops when guns were on him. We need more answers.

We do. Like why did the cops need to have guns drawn on an unarmed individual?

[JWags85]

I'm not saying it was justified. Yet, i did see a man walking away from the cops when guns were on him.

Ok...so a man acted irresponsibly or defiantly at worst. To which the officers were completely fine with calmly doing nothing but point their guns at him. 3-4 officers with their full compliment of support and gear and they did NOTHING. Doesn’t matter what was in his front seat, them allowing him to get there, moving as slowly and non aggressively as he was, shows a complete incompetence and complacency at very best

[Mr. Nielsen]

I agree we need more answers.

But walking away from the cops isn't a justification for shooting someone.

It's might not be. We don't know what was said. We also need to listen to the cops demands as well. We can't put ourselves in a bad spot. Not good for anyone.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It's might not be. We don't know what was said. We also need to listen to the cops demands as well. We can't put ourselves in a bad spot. Not good for anyone.

Actually it doesn't matter what was said or what the cops demands were.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Actually it doesn't matter what was said or what the cops demands were.

What? I hope your joking. We can't do just what we want.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

What? I hope your joking. We can't do just what we want.

Of course not.  But the appropriate response to not obeying a cop's demand isn't getting shot in the back multiple times.

[Elonsmusk]

Anybody who sees anything but how its being portrayed here should probably have a long look in the mirror.  Because if anybody thinks that this was justified, unless he had a gun on the front seat of his car that he was reaching for, it most certainly wasn't.

I agree with this.  It seems hard to fathom they would shoot this guy if he hadn't threatened to pull a gun out of his car.  Of course the whole thing could have been alleviated if he did just comply with officers.  That being said it of course doesn't justify getting shot.

Hopefully they had bodycams on and audio will surface to eliminate any questions about justification.

[Elonsmusk]

Ok...so a man acted irresponsibly or defiantly at worst. To which the officers were completely fine with calmly doing nothing but point their guns at him. 3-4 officers with their full compliment of support and gear and they did NOTHING. Doesn’t matter what was in his front seat, them allowing him to get there, moving as slowly and non aggressively as he was, shows a complete incompetence and complacency at very best

You can make this point, yet Police are in some ways in a Catch 22.  Say they escalate and take this guy down, as we saw in Atlanta case, its possible they can be overpowered.  Or that take him down too aggressively and are accused of police brutality.

All Black police forces in cities needed. 

[Galway Eagle]

Quick question, if he was trying to escape by ignoring the cops orders why could they not have shot out the tires? I know I haven't fired a gun, but at point blank range, for a stopped vehicle, between the two of them is imagine they'd manage at least one if not two tires to go out. Barring gun, which also could have been prevented if the second officer had cut him off around back of the car rather than slowly walking behind him with a gun drawn, I just don't see how 6 shots to the back were necessary.

[rocky_warrior]

Info emerging.  His 3 sons we in the car - watched it all.  Reportedly only stopped there to break up a fight between two unrelated women.   

[MU82]

Since your triggered soul can't help yourself...I'll indulge you:  Please go quote where I've posted white males are oppressed.

Unlike you, I simply don't associate the actions of individual police officers with the entirety of the profession, nor the entirety of their race. 

As I've posted before, my solution to this continued problem of officer involved shootings is to simply make the entire police department Black.  Simple solution.

You have become a caricature of yourself.

[4everwarriors]

Heresy only:

Police were said to hear he was returning to his vehicle to get his gun.

[MU82]

Heresy only:

Police were said to hear he was returning to his vehicle to get his gun.

Link?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Heresy only:

Police were said to hear he was returning to his vehicle to get his gun.

Assuming you mean hearsay and not heresy. 

[JWags85]

Heresy only:

Police were said to hear he was returning to his vehicle to get his gun.

Ok, so why did they make ZERO effort to stop him? Not “I’m grabbing this gun from my waist and”...but “I’m going to get a gun”...thus we should slowly walk after him and make no maneuvers, between the 3 of us with guns drawn, to get between him and a deadly weapon.

[Pakuni]

It's might not be. We don't know what was said. We also need to listen to the cops demands as well. We can't put ourselves in a bad spot. Not good for anyone.

Blame the victim all you want, but refusal to do as a police officer demands is not punishable by extrajudicial killing via gunshots to the back.
And there is no law enforcement standard that justifies shooting an unarmed person in the back. If there's evidence the person had a gun, this is a different discussion, but I suspect that if that were the case here, the Kenosha PD would be screaming it from the rooftops by now.

Here's the Kenosha PD's policy on use of deadly force. As you can see, in no way does it justify what we see on that video:

VII. USE OF DEADLY FORCE
A. Deadly force is force that is intended to or likely to cause death. Whenever safety
permits, police officers should identify themselves and state their intent to shoot prior to
using a firearm. Officers are to discharge their weapons to stop an assailant from
completing a potentially deadly act as described. Officers should shoot to stop the threat
and to minimize danger to innocent bystanders.
An officer may use deadly force:
1. As a last resort in the defense of oneself, when there is reasonable cause to believe
that the officer is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.
2. As a last resort in the defense of another person, whom the officer has reasonable
cause to believe is being unlawfully attacked and is in imminent danger of death or
great bodily harm.
3. As a last resort to prevent escape of a suspect, where the officer has probable cause
to believe that the person to be arrested has used deadly force in the commission of a
felony, and the officer reasonably believes there is no other way to make the arrest or
retain custody of the person once arrested, or the person to be arrested can
reasonably be thought to be intent on endangering human life or upon inflicting
serious bodily harm. In any event, the officer should not use deadly force unless
he/ she believes it is necessary and then only as a last resort.

https://www.kenosha.org/images/police/policies/1.3_Use_of_Force.pdf

[rocky_warrior]

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/watch-now-state-doj-will-probe-officer-involved-shooting-man-in-serious-condition/article_f1adbd13-3a15-5cdd-bd4e-95113ca36de4.html

- Seems he had stopped to break up a fight (plenty of folks reporting that)
- No body cams (of course)
- He had already been tasered
- Neighbors saying he had no gun

[Pakuni]

Heresy only:

Police were said to hear he was returning to his vehicle to get his gun.

But they made no effort to tackle him or block him from the door while they knew he was unarmed?

[shoothoops]

It's might not be. We don't know what was said. We also need to listen to the cops demands as well. We can't put ourselves in a bad spot. Not good for anyone.

It is not okay for a police officer to shoot "Everyone" that does not follow demands. This is a subject that requires more discussion.

There are way too many people out there that think it is okay for a police officer to shoot anyone/everyone that doesn't follow demands. There are of course, life and death situation exceptions, but way too often too many people think this okay. It isn't. The police does not have unlimited authority. Was this police officer protecting and serving when he shot an unarmed man, calmly, walking away from him/them?

[Jockey]

Gonna be a rough night in the streets of this country tonight.

This conduct by police isn’t going to stop until we make it stop. What we need to figure out quickly is how to do this nonviolently. Cuz we are on the edge right now and it can go either way.

We have a leader who has shown he is ruthless with peaceful protesters. We also know he won’t step up to try deal with these systemic issues.

We are on the edge of the cliff - at this moment, today. The next step will be taken. Will it be to step away or to go over the edge.

This will not be a Kenosha story. It is going to affect the entire country (and world) in a serious, serious way.

[rocky_warrior]

People are looking for the justification for shooting, I'm still waiting to hear a good justification that police officers were trying to detain him in the first place.  He was there breaking up a fight.  Maybe the police wanted to question him about the fight, but if he said "I'm gonna get gone" (see what I did there...) he should have been allowed to leave.

[vogue65]

Looks very bad.

@davenewworld_2: WARNING GRAPHIC ⚠️ Police in Kenosha, Wisconsin shoot an unarmed man in the back https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1297698630875385856/video/1

If it looks bad it is bad.

Armed thug misses the arms tackel, so you shoot him in the back, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ,6, 7 times?

Looks like the reality is comming closer to home.   

What was going before smart phones?

BLM  or the whole country goes down.

[vogue65]

Probably IBTL, but here is my biggest thought with this whole video...even if he had a button to unleash a nuclear warhead towards downtown Milwaukee in his center console so him opening the door and entering the car is clear and imminent life threatening danger...how do THREE officers allow him slowly and methodically round the car and get to the door and open it? No tasers, no attempt at physical force to stop him, just train your weapon on him and wait for “justification” to open fire? He could have been armed or attempting to arm himself and it’s STILL just comically inept and lackadaisically policing IMO.

Not comical, criminal.  Please change the word, this is not a laughing matter.

[vogue65]

The irony here is that according to witnesses, the man who was shot here wasn't directly involved in the incident that brought police there in the first place. Apparently he was trying to break up a fight.
Obviously there are a lot of unanswered questions here, and the cop's actions may end being justified. But regardless, it's troubling.

Wrong, only cowards shoot an unarmed man in the back.
Yes, after the union get's thru with it.