Kenosha

[Elonsmusk]

What are YOU talking about?

Less than 2 minutes after your emperor finished a Rose Garden speech in which he said he was "an ally of all peaceful protesters," he had his militia attack the peaceful protesters in Lafayette Square. He needed the park cleared so he could walk through it in an "Eff you, I'm the effen Emperor" show of strength, a walk he concluded by standing in front of the church and holding a bible upside-down. Even Pat Robertson called it cruel and blasphemous.

Just the most grotesque example, and one that could go a long way toward costing him this election. Only the most mindless, easily conned sheeple try to defend it, and it's been a rallying cry for all those who want a return to decency in this country. His opponents -- including Republican groups -- have used it extensively in attack ads, which is smart.

In Portland, your emperor's militia infamously tear-gassed a "wall of moms" who were peacefully protesting, attacked and injured a veteran who was just trying to talk to them, and even tear-gassed the mayor, who was part of a totally non-violent protest. Among the many other peaceful protesters he had attacked.

Some other protests, in Portland and elsewhere, indeed became violent, but just about all of those turned even more violent after he dispatched his militia because the protests then became about him. He had successfully (albeit briefly) deflected attention away from his horrific handling of the coronavirus.

Oh, and there have been several examples of white supremacists -- dressed nearly head to toe in black -- trying to make it look like Black folks were looting and committing violent acts.

The vast majority of protests in this country have been peaceful. It's been especially heartening to see all the white, suburban folks taking part, realizing how racism has ratcheted up significantly under your emperor's watch.

They've been peaceful despite your emperor's attempts to gin things up in his pathetic attempt to frame himself as the "law and order president."

Which is pretty amazing given how many criminals he has surrounded himself with. We need a scorecard to identify all the felons in this corrupt lunatic's inner circle.

#triggered

Guess we have a different definition of peaceful.  Seeing buildings burned and stores destroyed in Minneapolis (before Trump did his infamous walk), sure didn't seem very peaceful.  That aside all of your above examples are silly - property damage was inflicted by some dipsh$t protestors - and as a result peaceful protesters got caught in some crossfire.  Cost of doing business, you can say.

BTW Were race relations crumbling under Obama?  Ferguson.  Baltimore. Were all of those Obama's fault or are those episodes of individual cops using poor judgement?

It is amusing to read how an ignorant person like you associates any and all trouble to Trump. I'm genuinely concerned for your well-being should Trump gets re-elected in November.  Might want to get in to see a doctor for some preventative measures prior to the election.  Sure doesn't seem your troubled and triggered liberal heart will be able to survive.

PM your mailing address, and I'll send you some Kleenex in advance of the election.  You don't need to return the favor, because even if senile Joe and crazy Kamala win, I won't be crying,  nor out in the streets shutting down freeways #resisting, because I am a grown man. 

[Uncle Rico]

I know this, after what happened in Kenosha last night, the decision by Marquette and the Big East to wear BLM patches resonates even more.  It’s too bad those patches will trigger some people into rants instead of taking the time to understand the fear so many minorities live with on a daily basis. 

[panda]

I’d be afraid to be black in America right now after watching that video....

Who’s to say that won’t happen to someone you know?

[MU82]

#triggered

Guess we have a different definition of peaceful.  Seeing buildings burned and stores destroyed in Minneapolis (before Trump did his infamous walk), sure didn't seem very peaceful.  That aside all of your above examples are silly - property damage was inflicted by some dipsh$t protestors - and as a result peaceful protesters got caught in some crossfire.  Cost of doing business, you can say.

BTW Were race relations crumbling under Obama?  Ferguson.  Baltimore. Were all of those Obama's fault or are those episodes of individual cops using poor judgement?

It is amusing to read how an ignorant person like you associates any and all trouble to Trump. I'm genuinely concerned for your well-being should Trump gets re-elected in November.  Might want to get in to see a doctor for some preventative measures prior to the election.  Sure doesn't seem your troubled and triggered liberal heart will be able to survive.

PM your mailing address, and I'll send you some Kleenex in advance of the election.  You don't need to return the favor, because even if senile Joe and crazy Kamala win, I won't be crying,  nor out in the streets shutting down freeways #resisting, because I am a grown man.

Your posting history does not suggest you are a grown man, but a frustrated, pathetic, lonely racist who feels the world he knew slipping away from him. I fully understand why you fell for the whole maga con.

I actually feel sorry for you, with all the non-Caucasian folks you loathe about to put people like you on the scrap heap of history.

But for now, you are lucky to have a racist emperor to worship, and it’s certainly possible he’ll get 4 more years. Enjoy bending the knee while you can, though. Whether it’s 2020, 2024 or 2028, the times they are a’changin’.

Black Lives Matter. We Are Marquette!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

#triggered

Guess we have a different definition of peaceful.  Seeing buildings burned and stores destroyed in Minneapolis (before Trump did his infamous walk), sure didn't seem very peaceful.  That aside all of your above examples are silly - property damage was inflicted by some dipsh$t protestors - and as a result peaceful protesters got caught in some crossfire.  Cost of doing business, you can say.

BTW Were race relations crumbling under Obama?  Ferguson.  Baltimore. Were all of those Obama's fault or are those episodes of individual cops using poor judgement?

It is amusing to read how an ignorant person like you associates any and all trouble to Trump. I'm genuinely concerned for your well-being should Trump gets re-elected in November.  Might want to get in to see a doctor for some preventative measures prior to the election.  Sure doesn't seem your troubled and triggered liberal heart will be able to survive.

PM your mailing address, and I'll send you some Kleenex in advance of the election.  You don't need to return the favor, because even if senile Joe and crazy Kamala win, I won't be crying,  nor out in the streets shutting down freeways #resisting, because I am a grown man. 

Your posting history does not suggest you are a grown man, but a frustrated, pathetic, lonely racist who feels the world he knew slipping away from him. I fully understand why you fell for the whole maga con.

I actually feel sorry for you, with all the non-Caucasian folks you loathe about to put people like you on the scrap heap of history.

But for now, you are lucky to have a racist emperor to worship, and it’s certainly possible he’ll get 4 more years. Enjoy bending the knee while you can, though. Whether it’s 2020, 2024 or 2028, the times they are a’changin’.

Black Lives Matter. We Are Marquette!

These are both examples of posts that add nothing to the conversation and are simply the same old crap that got two threads locked down. 

[GooooMarquette]

There is a false equivalency.  ( don't you love it when I sound like a lawyer?) (Plausible deniability, sovereign immunity, reasonable doubt, ambiguities, etc.)  Blah, blah, blah.

All protests are legitimate, is that a new concept?
Oh, I'm on the side of this one, but not the other one.
Who is to draw the line?
Thank God for violent opportunists.
Only DAT can use violence?

An unarmed guy get shot in the back by a thug, and we debate legitimate and illegitimate.
With that kind of thinking this is not going to end well.

The First Amendment gives us a right to express our views, so no, it isn’t a new concept. We draw the line at whether protesters are expressing their views peacefully or through violence or destruction. And the line has nothing to do with the content of the message.

You are making this harder than it really is.

[#UnleashSean]

- No body cams (of course)

As someone who got into some BS in New Berlin (Thankfully thrown out in court) cops not having body cams, cruiser cams, or audio in 2020 is insane. Luckily I had a camera in my car in both the rear and front they didn't know about (cost $50)

[vogue65]

Your posting history does not suggest you are a grown man, but a frustrated, pathetic, lonely racist who feels the world he knew slipping away from him. I fully understand why you fell for the whole maga con.

I actually feel sorry for you, with all the non-Caucasian folks you loathe about to put people like you on the scrap heap of history.

But for now, you are lucky to have a racist emperor to worship, and it’s certainly possible he’ll get 4 more years. Enjoy bending the knee while you can, though. Whether it’s 2020, 2024 or 2028, the times they are a’changin’.

Black Lives Matter. We Are Marquette!

NO JUSTICE , NO PEACE.

When they come for you and me, don't say I didnt warn you.

BLM, laws matter, the constitution matters, American traditions matter, American institutions matter, honesty matters, principles matter.

I am as concerned that if DAT loses it might be worse.  I'll have to get over that.

[#UnleashSean]

These are both examples of posts that add nothing to the conversation and are simply the same old crap that got two threads locked down.

You mean the same old same old from all of them? I wished for 82 to get a vacation like chicos. He's a nice guy, but damn does he derail threads.

[MU82]

You mean the same old same old from all of them? I wished for 82 to get a vacation like chicos. He's a nice guy, but damn does he derail threads.

I have gotten Scoopcations; I deserved them. But sorry, I won't let Ners post racist crap without calling him out. (And I'm not the only one, thankfully.) I also am not the one who "derailed" this thread. I mean, look at rocky's first post -- which I agree with, of course.

Holy crap.  For those that don't like seeing black men shot in the back, don't watch.

Don't tell certain folks here, they've assured us that all live matter, and black people are given business opportunities that white people can't get, and that Marxists are trying to take over the country, and that protesters are trying to destroy cities, and that most violent crimes are committed by black people, and  that calling something "white fragility" is racist, and that Wendy's franchises' lives matter too.

I'm not necessarily "woke", but wake up folks.

But thanks for the kind words, UD, and have a great evening.

[WarriorFan]

What about the cops in this case... Why haven't they been named?  Why are they on "administrative" (paid) leave rather than unpaid leave.  IMHO, the problem here is the police unions who protect these clowns and perpetuate the racism, violence and general lack of integrity of a few amongst a larger group of well meaning people.  Some simple ways to end this:

- shoot someone, you go on unpaid leave until cleared.  If it takes 10 years, tough... go work at Wal-Mart.
- must pay for your own defense, no help from police unions or any outside agency
- officers who shoot someone get named and published (with photos) immediately (why not, the victims are)
- A national register of violent policemen needs to be in place, with a federal law prohibiting any police force from hiring anyone on the list.

I'm not sure these clowns are capable of thinking, let alone thinking twice... but right now the paradigm of the bad cop is that they'll get away with it because of the protection they get from their union.  Take that away and make them individually accountable and probably most will just choose another career. 

By the way, in most of the rest of the world, cops don't have guns. 

[JWags85]

What about the cops in this case... Why haven't they been named?  Why are they on "administrative" (paid) leave rather than unpaid leave.  IMHO, the problem here is the police unions who protect these clowns and perpetuate the racism, violence and general lack of integrity of a few amongst a larger group of well meaning people.  Some simple ways to end this:

- shoot someone, you go on unpaid leave until cleared.  If it takes 10 years, tough... go work at Wal-Mart.
- must pay for your own defense, no help from police unions or any outside agency
- officers who shoot someone get named and published (with photos) immediately (why not, the victims are)
- A national register of violent policemen needs to be in place, with a federal law prohibiting any police force from hiring anyone on the list.

I'm not sure these clowns are capable of thinking, let alone thinking twice... but right now the paradigm of the bad cop is that they'll get away with it because of the protection they get from their union.  Take that away and make them individually accountable and probably most will just choose another career. 

By the way, in most of the rest of the world, cops don't have guns.

Not to take away from the very bad policing that took place in Kenosha and is the root of this, but this is some WILD reactionary stuff.

Point 1: how will you ever expect to police high crime areas? How will police handle hostage situations? Police being shot at should now just bunker down or flee cause if they return fire they lose pay and maybe miss a mortgage payment. Unless, the minute the shooting is under investigation for improper use of force or whatnot, then they get switched, leading to point 2.

2: I don’t have a problem with this, within reason.

3: cause let’s say a cop shoots someone with a gun, the community/family/friends say it was a misunderstanding and he was innocent. The name is immediately published and a mob burns the dudes house down, or worse. Look what happened not long ago in Tosa.  Again, you’re operating under the notion that ALL cops are bad and evil and criminal and ALL police shootings are unjust.

4: this works for me though. No more burying of records or hiding behind unions. Bad cops shouldn’t be cops. Just like any other profession. If you’re a bus driver and you keep crashing your bus, I don’t care what your union says, you shouldn’t be driving a damn bus.


This country has a serious policing problem. And reform is needed. But broad brush punishing all cops will only make things worse. I do wish policing was more like the UK. I think they do a lot of things right there, and watching the cops dealing with “violent” protesters in London was actually really refreshing. People full on throwing haymakers at cops trying to defend a barricade and the cops just pushed them back into the crowd. That would have led to brutal ends in the US.

[MU82]

This country has a serious policing problem. And reform is needed. But broad brush punishing all cops will only make things worse. I do wish policing was more like the UK. I think they do a lot of things right there, and watching the cops dealing with “violent” protesters in London was actually really refreshing. People full on throwing haymakers at cops trying to defend a barricade and the cops just pushed them back into the crowd. That would have led to brutal ends in the US.

Like this very much. Well stated, Wags.

[Jockey]

As white people who never have to worry about police treating us this way, it is so easy to be philosophical about what needs to be done.

For blacks who have to watch this behavior from police over and over and over again, not quite as easy.

[WarriorFan]

Not to take away from the very bad policing that took place in Kenosha and is the root of this, but this is some WILD reactionary stuff.

Point 1: how will you ever expect to police high crime areas? How will police handle hostage situations? Police being shot at should now just bunker down or flee cause if they return fire they lose pay and maybe miss a mortgage payment. Unless, the minute the shooting is under investigation for improper use of force or whatnot, then they get switched, leading to point 2.

2: I don’t have a problem with this, within reason.

3: cause let’s say a cop shoots someone with a gun, the community/family/friends say it was a misunderstanding and he was innocent. The name is immediately published and a mob burns the dudes house down, or worse. Look what happened not long ago in Tosa.  Again, you’re operating under the notion that ALL cops are bad and evil and criminal and ALL police shootings are unjust.

4: this works for me though. No more burying of records or hiding behind unions. Bad cops shouldn’t be cops. Just like any other profession. If you’re a bus driver and you keep crashing your bus, I don’t care what your union says, you shouldn’t be driving a damn bus.


This country has a serious policing problem. And reform is needed. But broad brush punishing all cops will only make things worse. I do wish policing was more like the UK. I think they do a lot of things right there, and watching the cops dealing with “violent” protesters in London was actually really refreshing. People full on throwing haymakers at cops trying to defend a barricade and the cops just pushed them back into the crowd. That would have led to brutal ends in the US.

I sincerely appreciate all of your points and, having lived in the UK, can reinforce that their model for policing works far better than the US model. 

As for point 3, however, I'm pretty sure that if you or I shot someone 7 times in the back our mug(s) would be on the front page of every paper and web site.  No cop should get any identity protection when they do it, justified or unjustified.  Accountability drives behavior, and long term, accountability fixes problems. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I have gotten Scoopcations; I deserved them. But sorry, I won't let Ners post racist crap without calling him out. (And I'm not the only one, thankfully.) I also am not the one who "derailed" this thread. I mean, look at rocky's first post -- which I agree with, of course.

But thanks for the kind words, UD, and have a great evening.

You were the first to call out someone specifically by name. It lended nothing to the topic.

[MU82]

You were the first to call out someone specifically by name. It lended nothing to the topic.

Fair. I shouldn't have done it.

Meanwhile, on a related note:

NYT report shows that Black homeowners face discrimination during house appraisals.

Valuations of Black-owned homes tend to come in far lower than those of white-owned houses, even in mixed-race and predominantly white neighborhoods, The Times reports.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/25/realestate/blacks-minorities-appraisals-discrimination.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20200825&instance_id=21587&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=36877&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Thankfully, there's no such thing as systemic racism.

[Coleman]

Fair. I shouldn't have done it.

Meanwhile, on a related note:

NYT report shows that Black homeowners face discrimination during house appraisals.

Valuations of Black-owned homes tend to come in far lower than those of white-owned houses, even in mixed-race and predominantly white neighborhoods, The Times reports.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/25/realestate/blacks-minorities-appraisals-discrimination.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20200825&instance_id=21587&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=36877&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Thankfully, there's no such thing as systemic racism.

You do derail threads and get obnoxious at times, but you are the only one who owns it and apologies. Kudos

[injuryBug]

it is disgusting what was done in Kenosha.  Something needs to be done with the police and the way they handle these situations.  This has gone on for so many years black men are scared of what the police will do to them.  They want know part of being in police custody.

The looting and rioting does not help the issue.  Leaders need to emerge on both sides

[4everwarriors]

No easy answers. Pessimistically, hoping we're not moving to civil war.

[Galway Eagle]

No easy answers. Pessimistically, hoping we're not moving to civil war.

Same. Still unsure what it is that would actually spark a civil war barring the far right militias going and trying to occupy a minority area of a city but whenever it happens I'm dipping out of here.

[shoothoops]

Man shot in back 7 times by Kenosha Police while walking away is now paralyzed from the waist down according to his father:

https://twitter.com/JonLemire/status/1298236506155266049?s=19

[vogue65]

What about the cops in this case... Why haven't they been named?  Why are they on "administrative" (paid) leave rather than unpaid leave.  IMHO, the problem here is the police unions who protect these clowns and perpetuate the racism, violence and general lack of integrity of a few amongst a larger group of well meaning people.  Some simple ways to end this:

- shoot someone, you go on unpaid leave until cleared.  If it takes 10 years, tough... go work at Wal-Mart.
- must pay for your own defense, no help from police unions or any outside agency
- officers who shoot someone get named and published (with photos) immediately (why not, the victims are)
- A national register of violent policemen needs to be in place, with a federal law prohibiting any police force from hiring anyone on the list.

I'm not sure these clowns are capable of thinking, let alone thinking twice... but right now the paradigm of the bad cop is that they'll get away with it because of the protection they get from their union.  Take that away and make them individually accountable and probably most will just choose another career. 

By the way, in most of the rest of the world, cops don't have guns.

They are not clowns, they are thugs, bullies and murderers.

[dgies9156]

Let's not rush to judgment. We need to wait for the full story to emerge. I'm not convinced we've heard or seen it all. People who think they know, including Wisconsin's governor, are way ahead of the investigation and I fear they are trying to influence the outcome before the facts are known.

Patience is a virtue, especially if the goal is to get it right. I understand the anger and the bad feelings but do you want justice or retribution? Those are two very different things!

Look, if the police officers violated the civil rights of a Kenosha resident, by all means, throw the book at them. But let's make sure they acted outside the law and outside their training. If they didn't, then the broader question is whether the rules they followed were appropriate and if not, how do we change them. But don't deprive them of their legal protections. Don't deprive them of their union, to which they have a right, and above all, make sure the results of the investigation are agents of positive change.

If we strip away their union rights and reduce administrative protections against officers who parts of society believe have done them wrong, then a community will have an entirely different type of policing and an entirely different level of protection. What we really have to do is define what we want our police departments to do and then hire people who best fit the mission and develop training to imprint that mission on every officer.

 

[vogue65]

it is disgusting what was done in Kenosha.  Something needs to be done with the police and the way they handle these situations.  This has gone on for so many years black men are scared of what the police will do to them.  They want know part of being in police custody.

The looting and rioting does not help the issue.  Leaders need to emerge on both sides

Wrong, first things first.  No justice no peace.  The leaders on the left have done all they can do.  The "leaders" on the right have done NOTHING.

The right has to clean up the criminal/political justice system.  At this point the policing has not changed ( the cause) so the (effect) will not change. 

When the IRA laid down their weapons Great Britain did the same.  And BTW, the mothers did it.

The right wants more guns, more police militarization, more jails, more gated communities, and more agressive control.

For starts, the left wants police to stop shooting black men in the back.  BLM