Masks

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Given the exponential growth of infections among children in the past four weeks, how valid is a report published in May that's based on data collected in NovemberandDecember?

"That was 4 or 5 days ago."

Maybe the study was peer reviewed?  Maybe the NYer just published the article?

Can't have it both ways.

[Pakuni]

"That was 4 or 5 days ago."

Maybe the study was peer reviewed?  Maybe the NYer just published the article?

Can't have it both ways.

You guys are trying way too hard not to answer what I thought was a simple question. Makes me suspect you know the answer, but would rather not write it.
Perhaps one of our more informed posters will fill us in.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html?utm_source=tw&utm_campaign=nym&utm_medium=s1

[Pakuni]

Looks like NC State and Georgia Tech answered the question Ziggy and Pace couldn't.

Students are returning to classrooms at a time when the Delta variant of Covid-19 is circulating. The Delta variant is about 50% more infectious than the Alpha variant, which was as much as 50% more infectious than earlier strains in the US. That means Covid-19 is now significantly more transmissible than it was in the previous school year.
Our modeling found that without masks or regular testing, up to 90% of susceptible students may become infected by the end of the semester. This high rate of infection would result in frequent quarantines of students and transmission to others. 

https://covsim.hosted-wordpress.oit.ncsu.edu/school-level-modeling-results/


Without interventions in place, the vast majority of susceptible students will become infected through the semester. Universal masking can reduce student infections by 26-78%, and biweekly testing along with masking reduces infections by another 50%. To prevent new infections in the community, limit school absences, and maintain in-person learning, interventions such as masking and testing must be implemented widely, especially among elementary school settings in which children are not yet eligible for the vaccine.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.10.21261726v1

[MUfan12]

Looks like NC State and Georgia Tech answered the question Ziggy and Pace couldn't.

I'm fine with it as a minimum precaution until kids can get vaxxed, but I wouldn't say those were answers. They're guesses, just as all the other models have been during this thing.

[Jockey]

I'm fine with it as a minimum precaution until kids can get vaxxed, but I wouldn't say those were answers. They're guesses, just as all the other models have been during this thing.

Yup.

Science is just make-believe.

[MUfan12]

Yup.

Science is just make-believe.

I'm all for science. Got the shot the first day I was eligible.

But because I take a critical eye to a non-peer reviewed paper, I think science is make-believe. Got it.

[Jockey]

I'm all for science. Got the shot the first day I was eligible.

But because I take a critical eye to a non-peer reviewed paper, I think science is make-believe. Got it.

It was a joke.

[Pakuni]

I'm fine with it as a minimum precaution until kids can get vaxxed, but I wouldn't say those were answers. They're guesses, just as all the other models have been during this thing.

My question was whether data from last fall - pre-Delta and pre-90+ percent case increase in children - is still timely and valid when making public health decisions for school this fall.
This passage seems to say "no" and is not just guesses.

Students are returning to classrooms at a time when the Delta variant of Covid-19 is circulating. The Delta variant is about 50% more infectious than the Alpha variant, which was as much as 50% more infectious than earlier strains in the US. That means Covid-19 is now significantly more transmissible than it was in the previous school year.

[pacearrow02]

My question was whether data from last fall - pre-Delta and pre-90+ percent case increase in children - is still timely and valid when making public health decisions for school this fall.
This passage seems to say "no" and is not just guesses.

Students are returning to classrooms at a time when the Delta variant of Covid-19 is circulating. The Delta variant is about 50% more infectious than the Alpha variant, which was as much as 50% more infectious than earlier strains in the US. That means Covid-19 is now significantly more transmissible than it was in the previous school year.

What does the transmissibility of Delta have to do with mandating a measure that hasnt proven to do much of anything to prevent transmission.  I never argued that Delta wasn’t more contagious.  Mandating masks in schools where 99% of the masks worn are nothing more then specially cut cloths with elastic ear bands to prevent the spread of Delta isn’t backed by peer reviewed data/analysis.

[forgetful]

What does the transmissibility of Delta have to do with mandating a measure that hasnt proven to do much of anything to prevent transmission.  I never argued that Delta wasn’t more contagious.  Mandating masks in schools where 99% of the masks worn are nothing more then specially cut cloths with elastic ear bands to prevent the spread of Delta isn’t backed by peer reviewed data/analysis.

Your assertion that 99% of masks do not prevent the spread is false. Even the assertion that masks do not prevent the spread of COVID is false.

Both have been proven ad nauseam in peer-reviewed literature.

[Jockey]

Chico is here strictly to argue. I am amazed so many of you indulge him.

He knows the facts. He is playing you.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Your assertion that 99% of masks do not prevent the spread is false. Even the assertion that masks do not prevent the spread of COVID is false.

Both have been proven ad nauseam in peer-reviewed literature.

He knows that. It was also noted in the 2nd paragraph: Universal masking can reduce student infections by 26-78%, and biweekly testing along with masking reduces infections by another 50%.

Bad faith trolling.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Chuck Darwin on Line 1. Yay, Freedumb!

‘It’s not looking in our favor’: Man who organized anti-mask Freedom Rally now on a ventilator after catching COVID
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/it-s-not-looking-in-our-favor-man-who-organized-anti-mask-freedom-rally-now-on-a-ventilator-after-catching-covid/ar-AANOPmv?ocid=msedgntp

"A Texas man who had organized a “Freedom Rally” in protest of COVID-19 restrictions is now on a ventilator after becoming infected with COVID, according to his pregnant wife.

Caleb helped organize the "Freedom Rally" on July 4, 2020 for those “sick of the government being in control of our lives,” and with attendees who held signs against masking and business closures during the pandemic, the Standard-Times reported."

[Warriors4ever]

Very sad, three little girls with one on the way..  I read that they were trying to get him transferred to a hospital with an Ecmo machine, but none were available - couldn't even get on a waiting list.  Couldn't FT often because the staff is slammed. 

This is an illustration of how refusal to vaccinate and take mitigation measures does indeed affect others. 

[Jockey]

Chuck Darwin on Line 1. Yay, Freedumb!

‘It’s not looking in our favor’: Man who organized anti-mask Freedom Rally now on a ventilator after catching COVID
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/it-s-not-looking-in-our-favor-man-who-organized-anti-mask-freedom-rally-now-on-a-ventilator-after-catching-covid/ar-AANOPmv?ocid=msedgntp

"A Texas man who had organized a “Freedom Rally” in protest of COVID-19 restrictions is now on a ventilator after becoming infected with COVID, according to his pregnant wife.

Caleb helped organize the "Freedom Rally" on July 4, 2020 for those “sick of the government being in control of our lives,” and with attendees who held signs against masking and business closures during the pandemic, the Standard-Times reported."

Terrible for his family. Good for society as a whole. Takes a certain kind of lowlife to encourage others to risk the lives of their family members.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Terrible for his family. Good for society as a whole. Takes a certain kind of lowlife to encourage others to risk the lives of their family members.

Well, he's dead now.

Feel sorry for the family, though not for this pretty boy. Kids didn't ask for a dumbass dad, and the wife wore a mask against his wishes.

[Pakuni]

Well, he's dead now.

Feel sorry for the family, though not for this pretty boy. Kids didn't ask for a dumbass dad, and the wife wore a mask against his wishes.

I don't want to say this guy doesn't bear responsibility for this outcome, because clearly he does. But whenever a case like this happens - and they're happening a lot lately - it's worth remembering that there's a massive right-wing (and, if we're being honest, Russian) misinformation campaign behind these anti-maskers and many of the anti-vaxxers.
Those are the real evil-doers here. This is just a guy foolish enough to fall for it.

[pbiflyer]

I don't want to say this guy doesn't bear responsibility for this outcome, because clearly he does. But whenever a case like this happens - and they're happening a lot lately - it's worth remembering that there's a massive right-wing (and, if we're being honest, Russian) misinformation campaign behind these anti-maskers and many of the anti-vaxxers.
Those are the real evil-doers here. This is just a guy foolish enough to fall for it.

This guy was one of the people spreading the false info. No sympathy for him.

[muwarrior69]

Your assertion that 99% of masks do not prevent the spread is false. Even the assertion that masks do not prevent the spread of COVID is false.

Both have been proven ad nauseam in peer-reviewed literature.

Citations, please. I'm not being snarky. I would like to read the literature that actually can demonstrate that with non anecdotal data.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Citations, please. I'm not being snarky. I would like to read the literature that actually can demonstrate that with non anecdotal data.

https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/do-face-masks-work-here-are-49-scientific-studies-that-explain-why-they-do/

[muwarrior69]

Looks like NC State and Georgia Tech answered the question Ziggy and Pace couldn't.

Students are returning to classrooms at a time when the Delta variant of Covid-19 is circulating. The Delta variant is about 50% more infectious than the Alpha variant, which was as much as 50% more infectious than earlier strains in the US. That means Covid-19 is now significantly more transmissible than it was in the previous school year.
Our modeling found that without masks or regular testing, up to 90% of susceptible students may become infected by the end of the semester. This high rate of infection would result in frequent quarantines of students and transmission to others. 

https://covsim.hosted-wordpress.oit.ncsu.edu/school-level-modeling-results/


Without interventions in place, the vast majority of susceptible students will become infected through the semester. Universal masking can reduce student infections by 26-78%, and biweekly testing along with masking reduces infections by another 50%. To prevent new infections in the community, limit school absences, and maintain in-person learning, interventions such as masking and testing must be implemented widely, especially among elementary school settings in which children are not yet eligible for the vaccine.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.10.21261726v1

These are based on modeling, not hard data of kids infected without masks vs with masks. Those infection rates are for the most part of non-immune people who are symptomatic. If you want to wear a mask fine but I'm dubious as to how much protection it offers until I can see a study with hard data of actual subjects. I'm vaccinated and going to my choir summer sing this afternoon. I will wear a mask as requested though I'm not sure it matters much one way or the other.

[forgetful]

Citations, please. I'm not being snarky. I would like to read the literature that actually can demonstrate that with non anecdotal data.

As a general review, I kind of like this article, as it goes through the problems with data etc from previous studies, then highlights why masks should be used.

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

In general through if you want to come to your own conclusions, pubmed is a free searchable database of articles.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=covid%20mask%20efficacy

[Pakuni]

This guy was one of the people spreading the false info. No sympathy for him.

Something or someone made him believe that the false information was true. I very much doubt he was knowingly spreading false information. He was a true believer. On the other hand, the entities (right-wing media figures, Russia) pushing the misinformation know it's false, but are putting it out there. They're the arch villains here.
You're in no way obligated to feel sympathy for this guy, but he was just a useful idiot. Laugh at, mock and belittle him all you want, but he's the rube here, not the con.

[Jockey]

Something or someone made him believe that the false information was true. I very much doubt he was knowingly spreading false information. He was a true believer. On the other hand, the entities (right-wing media figures, Russia) pushing the misinformation know it's false, but are putting it out there. They're the arch villains here.
You're in no way obligated to feel sympathy for this guy, but he was just a useful idiot. Laugh at, mock and belittle him all you want, but he's the rube here, not the con.

While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, I have a hard time believing the bolded part.