MUScoop

MUScoop => The Superbar => COVID-19 => Topic started by: Keithtisbarf on July 02, 2020, 11:02:31 PM

Title: Masks
Post by: Keithtisbarf on July 02, 2020, 11:02:31 PM
Are we all wearing masks when shopping and in crowds? If not, why not?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 02, 2020, 11:10:59 PM
I have worn a mask in public since April. It is such an easy and obvious way to fight this pandemic. It makes no sense to me that people fight the obvious answer.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 02, 2020, 11:58:46 PM
I am.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: BM1090 on July 03, 2020, 12:03:48 AM
Yes in any public indoor place, although I don't venture to many besides the grocery store.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 03, 2020, 05:53:54 AM
Yes, mandatory in Connecticut.  I put one on when stepping out of my office to go on the factory floor.  Any store I go in.  Picking up my take out food.  I have not worn one outside but I haven't been anywhere crowded.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on July 03, 2020, 06:10:10 AM
We all know why some Scoopers aren’t wearing masks. It’s very difficult to be a mouth breather and wear a mask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 03, 2020, 06:45:25 AM
I have not been in a public building without one in 3.5 months. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on July 03, 2020, 07:08:09 AM
Yes in any public indoor place, although I don't venture to many besides the grocery store.

This is where I’m at too.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 03, 2020, 07:30:34 AM
I have not been in a public building without one in 3.5 months.

Same.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 03, 2020, 07:36:07 AM
I have occasionally forgotten it, but ditto.  I don't like it but you get used to it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 03, 2020, 08:53:40 AM
Yes every time I enter a building that isn't my house it goes on and stays on.  Only exception is my office at work.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: reinko on July 03, 2020, 09:16:49 AM
Yup.

Only buildings I frequent are grocery stores occasionally and masks are required here in Maryland.

Outside on walks/bike rides I have a gaiter type mask that I wear around my neck, but keep it down mostly unless I cant keep my distance.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 03, 2020, 09:22:52 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on July 03, 2020, 09:48:49 AM
It’s great to read all the mask wearing, but at the same time, a relative in Northern Wisconsin posted this. That type of mindset is unfortunately fairly prevalent and makes me think we will continue to shoot ourselves in the foot.

(https://i0.wp.com/politicallyincorrecthumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/covid-19-solution-you-do-you-ill-do-me-not-afraid.jpg?w=500&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 03, 2020, 11:19:41 AM
Throughout time, man has thought he could beat Mother Nature. The more uneducated they are, the more they are convinced they can beat her.

Your northern relative isn’t tough. Just ignorant.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: injuryBug on July 03, 2020, 11:36:56 AM
I do wear a mask 90% of the time if i get take out and have prepraid and just grabbing a bag i will not.

I waiver at times at wearing it when in the grocery store or picking up a few items in a big box store.  The reason is from what I have read and seen in interviews with Fauci he has said several times this is spread through prolonged contact between individuals.  I have even heard him talk about a mark of 5 minutes or more.
I still wear it cause i may bump into a friend and have a long conversation with them.  But those statements that have been put out there are what makes some people feel safe without one.
Just like many of us when this first started left groceries in the garage for several hours.

Simply put each state should mandate a mask indoors and outdoors when at large gatherings.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 03, 2020, 12:00:38 PM
One of my daughters gave three Marquette masks for Father’s Day. All different, all stylish!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 03, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Y'all should try wearin' an N95, faceshield, loupes, and all the udder Martian (can ya say dat here?) gear all dey. It sucks major ass. Butt its da world in witch wee live, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 03, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Y'all should try wearin' an N95, faceshield, loupes, and all the udder Martian (can ya say dat here?) gear all dey. It sucks major ass. Butt its da world in witch wee live, aina?


That kind of puts into perspective how freakin' easy it is for the rest of us to take the simple step of wearing a cloth mask when we go out.

Glad to see that most here do. Sad to know that many others still don't....
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on July 03, 2020, 01:01:24 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/40vyd7.jpg)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GB Warrior on July 03, 2020, 01:25:43 PM
Has anyone purchased or made Marquette ones? I saw fanatics had the behind-ear ones, but the ones that tie behind my head are the only ones that really feel comfortable. At present, I'm still rocking the floral patterned ones from family friends.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 03, 2020, 01:59:17 PM
Y'all should try wearin' an N95, faceshield, loupes, and all the udder Martian (can ya say dat here?) gear all dey. It sucks major ass. Butt its da world in witch wee live, aina?

No kidding?   Wow.   I haven't been doing just that since St Patrick's day.   You have got to do it with A/C.   I have got to do it in the 90 degree heat at car accidents, shootings, stabbings, civil unrest.   I have got to do CPR in 85 degree heat with a N95 and face shield on.   I feel your pampered pain.

Pull up your big boy depends and wear a mask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 03, 2020, 02:53:48 PM
No kidding?   Wow.   I haven't been doing just that since St Patrick's day.   You have got to do it with A/C.   I have got to do it in the 90 degree heat at car accidents, shootings, stabbings, civil unrest.   I have got to do CPR in 85 degree heat with a N95 and face shield on.   I feel your pampered pain.

Pull up your big boy depends and wear a mask.

Thanks for the perspective.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: wadesworld on July 03, 2020, 02:59:30 PM
I have been told that masks don’t help at all and actually make you sick. This is the land of the free, so I can choose what I put on my face or don’t. ‘Merica!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 03, 2020, 03:03:01 PM
I don't.... freaking.... get it.      If only there was a vaccine.    If only there was a treatment.    If only there was a simple way we could stop the vast majority of transmission...   oh, wait....   there is.       Wear the masks.    Avoid large crowds. 
 
  But....  that infringes on my right to be me.      Meh.   Getting COVID will infringe on a lot of things.   

 Returning to a spirit of all for one and one for all versus this version of Rand-ian narcissism might actually help society.    Americans love to pitch in and help after snowstorms.     After tornadoes and wind storms when there is a job to do.     People willing to help others come out of the woodwork.     Channel that attitude into wearing masks.    Instead of thinking of the imposition, think of the good you are doing for yourself, your family, and the community around you.      By putting on a piece of cloth.   



Plus, I am so friggin' ugly that a mask is actually a benefit.       
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Aughnanure on July 03, 2020, 03:17:21 PM
Yes, of course.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 03, 2020, 03:44:21 PM
Visited a Home Depot and Binny's today and only saw one person without a mask. That was a kid, maybe 12, what I assume was his mother, who was wearing one. Maybe the kid has a medical issue? Otherwise, tough to figure what was going on there.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on July 03, 2020, 04:00:39 PM
Marion county in Indiana just passed mandatory masks if in public buildings or when outside and unable to social distance.

I'm on the Nextdoor app for my neighborhood. Hoo boy. It's worse than Facebook
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on July 03, 2020, 05:39:00 PM
No masks or social distancing required for tonight’s  actionable 4th celebration.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 03, 2020, 07:05:13 PM
Marion county in Indiana just passed mandatory masks if in public buildings or when outside and unable to social distance.

I'm on the Nextdoor app for my neighborhood. Hoo boy. It's worse than Facebook


Never tried that. I like the idea promoting neighborhood security and such, but I imagine it could also turn neighbors into enemies pretty quickly when a hot-button issue comes up...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 03, 2020, 11:20:23 PM
I am in my neighborhood NextDoor group too. Sometimes it is jaw-dropping.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Keithtisbarf on July 04, 2020, 12:15:57 AM
I do believe wearing a mask has helped me save money by spending less time shopping and impulse buying. I just go in to stores get what I need and get out.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 05, 2020, 09:10:46 PM
Why can't we get more people to wear masks? Hmmm...


A Kansas county Republican Party chairman who owns a weekly newspaper apologized Sunday for a cartoon posted on the paper's Facebook page that equated the Democratic governor's coronavirus-inspired order for people to wear masks in public with the mass murder of Jews by the Nazis during the Holocaust.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUfan12 on July 06, 2020, 10:16:44 AM
Wear one 90% of the time when in public indoor spaces. The other 10% being times I forget it, or will be in for a matter of seconds while picking something up.

Outdoors I don't, mainly because I avoid anything that would make distancing difficult. It's easy enough to give a wide berth when out for a walk/hike/at the park.

While I wear it, I don't get upset if I encounter people not wearing one, unless they refuse to keep distance. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on July 07, 2020, 05:36:28 PM
Can anyone explain to me the argument against masks?

And I'm not referring to government overreach/violation of rights.

I'm asking about the individual choice to not wear one.

From my POV, it simply boils down to an individual being extremely selfish. As the point of the mask is to protect the community at large. Society>self.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 07, 2020, 06:10:30 PM
Can anyone explain to me the argument against masks?


Trump. That’s all.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 07, 2020, 06:25:55 PM
Other than a very small percentage who can't wear them due to physical or psychological reasons, it is pure selfishness.  Narcissism.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GB Warrior on July 07, 2020, 06:48:05 PM
Can anyone explain to me the argument against masks?

And I'm not referring to government overreach/violation of rights.

I'm asking about the individual choice to not wear one.

From my POV, it simply boils down to an individual being extremely selfish. As the point of the mask is to protect the community at large. Society>self.

They know their personality is so abhorrent no one wants to be within 6 feet anyway
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 07, 2020, 06:50:43 PM
Why won't some people wear masks?

Tribalists are gonna tribe.

When leaders of the tribe prey upon the irrational anticipatory fears of the tribe, the tribe listens and responds accordingly.

This is the majority of non mask wearers above. The legit medical reasons people is a very small group. The other small group are selfish self absorbed people that don't want to be inconvenienced. It took years for most to wear seat belts etc...there are always a few late adjusters to change. But most in my opinion are the tribe.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 07, 2020, 07:56:37 PM
Well said.     
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 07, 2020, 09:18:57 PM
<sigh> No wonder we have issues.

https://twitter.com/bad_takes/status/1280662317139742722?s=21
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 07, 2020, 10:01:00 PM
<sigh> No wonder we have issues.

https://twitter.com/bad_takes/status/1280662317139742722?s=21

And yet somehow this was not the dumbest thing Tucker said tonight.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 08, 2020, 06:46:09 AM
Ohio GOP state lawmaker says "Never Get Tested!" and that he is against wearing masks because the face is the “image and likeness of God.”

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/ohio-nino-vitale-coronavirus-facebook-rant-085910141.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on July 08, 2020, 07:50:33 AM
Speaking of masks, make a donation, get a Marquette-logo mask, and they will also donate a mask to a Marquette student:

https://give.marquette.edu/mask-social
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 08, 2020, 10:06:31 AM
Speaking of masks, make a donation, get a Marquette-logo mask, and they will also donate a mask to a Marquette student:

https://give.marquette.edu/mask-social


Is Marquette not providing masks for its students?  Almost every school that I know of is distributing one, if not multiple cloth masks for each student free of charge, and Marquette is out here soliciting donations for a product that costs a few dollars?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GB Warrior on July 08, 2020, 10:49:47 AM
I'm sure that they will ensure all of their students are masked (or just not on campus), and don't think they're soliciting donations for masks, but for the huge budget shortfall they're projecting.

Masks are just a relevant (fun?) opportunity for community engagement and for those who can donate to do so. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 08, 2020, 10:55:46 AM
I need to know if it has a nose wire. So if someone has one, let me know. I did not see it mentioned ( unless I missed it due to my glasses fogging up😀).
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 08, 2020, 11:57:43 AM
I need to know if it has a nose wire. So if someone has one, let me know. I did not see it mentioned ( unless I missed it due to my glasses fogging up😀).

I've cut holes in the top hem of our fabric masks and installed picture hanging wire, then sewed the hole back up. Takes a few minutes, but it improves the mask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 08, 2020, 01:55:28 PM
My company makes nose wire.  We're shipping 1000s of pounds a month.  Walmart is one of our customers.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 08, 2020, 04:03:45 PM
I'm sure that they will ensure all of their students are masked (or just not on campus), and don't think they're soliciting donations for masks, but for the huge budget shortfall they're projecting.

Masks are just a relevant (fun?) opportunity for community engagement and for those who can donate to do so.


I have to believe this is the case. Essentially, a fund-raising opportunity that people can directly relate to.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on July 08, 2020, 04:58:25 PM

Is Marquette not providing masks for its students?  Almost every school that I know of is distributing one, if not multiple cloth masks for each student free of charge, and Marquette is out here soliciting donations for a product that costs a few dollars?

Lighten up, Francis.  ;D

It’s for a good cause, benefiting  students who are training to be on the frontlines of healthcare.

And don’t be a cheapskate if you can afford it and throw in more than the 20 bucks they are asking for for four masks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on July 08, 2020, 05:15:41 PM

I have to believe this is the case. Essentially, a fund-raising opportunity that people can directly relate to.

Yeah, I am pretty sure they are not relying on this fundraiser to supply all the needed masks for students.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: drewm88 on July 09, 2020, 01:19:01 PM
I need to know if it has a nose wire. So if someone has one, let me know. I did not see it mentioned ( unless I missed it due to my glasses fogging up😀).

Wash your glasses with hand or dish soap and let them air dry (or gently wipe dry). Does wonders for fogging.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 09, 2020, 01:20:51 PM
Yeah I know about that. Though the nose wire helps it stay up as well. Thanks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 09, 2020, 02:36:37 PM
Fookin' idiot

https://apple.news/AmvyVpNY6RLGYpx12EC1BGw
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 09, 2020, 02:42:40 PM
Fookin' idiot

https://apple.news/AmvyVpNY6RLGYpx12EC1BGw

I don’t envy anyone that has to deal with these type of people
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 09, 2020, 03:00:56 PM
I don’t envy anyone that has to deal with these type of people

Seriously.  We have now birthed the 'adult tantrum'.

Apparently, an ice cream stand had to post a plea to people to stop yelling at the high school aged girls who were enforcing their mask requirement.  ugh.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 09, 2020, 03:12:50 PM
Seriously.  We have now birthed the 'adult tantrum'.

Apparently, an ice cream stand had to post a plea to people to stop yelling at the high school aged girls who were enforcing their mask requirement.  ugh.

I think it has always existed, but now we get to see it in all its glory thanks to everyone having a video camera on them.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 09, 2020, 03:35:43 PM
Seriously.  We have now birthed the 'adult tantrum'.

Apparently, an ice cream stand had to post a plea to people to stop yelling at the high school aged girls who were enforcing their mask requirement.  ugh.

Speaking of adult tantrums ... this woman sits on floor of Costco and refuses to leave after being asked to wear a mask. Literally the behavior of a toddler.

https://fox6now.com/2020/07/06/costco-karen-throws-fit-over-face-mask-policy-twitter-video-shows/
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 09, 2020, 03:38:40 PM
Speaking of adult tantrums ... this woman sits on floor of Costco and refuses to leave after being asked to wear a mask. Literally the behavior of a toddler.

https://fox6now.com/2020/07/06/costco-karen-throws-fit-over-face-mask-policy-twitter-video-shows/

Imagine being this ridiculous.  You sit on the floor until the police arrive, and then are removed from the premises and handed a ticked for trespassing.

Congrats!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 09, 2020, 03:41:49 PM
So many people who choose to be infantile.   So much narcissism.    Probably complains about the lack of respect from kids these days, missing the irony entirely.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on July 09, 2020, 05:20:03 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/costco-mask-florida-daniel-maples-video-job-fired-a9609041.html

Costing people their jobs too
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 09, 2020, 05:48:39 PM
Symir has spoken:

Symir Torrence @Syboogie10
Wear your mask, so athletes can wear their jerseys
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on July 09, 2020, 06:09:15 PM
Symir has spoken:

Symir Torrence @Syboogie10
Wear your mask, so athletes can wear their jerseys

I don’t know if that’s off the dome or if he saw it somewhere else, but that’s pretty profound. Love it
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 09, 2020, 06:18:40 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/costco-mask-florida-daniel-maples-video-job-fired-a9609041.html

Costing people their jobs too


Good. It's time people learn that bad behavior has consequences.

Pretty scary that his bio listed 'mentoring others' as one of his interests.  ?-(
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 11, 2020, 06:44:38 AM
Very sad. Wear a mask.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1281812477077073920?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on July 11, 2020, 10:27:50 AM
Very sad. Wear a mask.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1281812477077073920?s=19

Galatians 6:7
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 11, 2020, 10:46:22 AM
Thoughts and prayers.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 11, 2020, 05:25:47 PM
26 Mississippi Legislators test positive for COVID-19 because for weeks, they would not wear a mask.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/10/us/mississippi-coronavirus-legislature-trnd/index.html?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 11, 2020, 06:31:04 PM
26 Mississippi Legislators test positive for COVID-19 because for weeks, they would not wear a mask.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/10/us/mississippi-coronavirus-legislature-trnd/index.html?__twitter_impression=true


We have yet to find a cure for stupid.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 11, 2020, 09:22:28 PM
Tribalism, Mask Edition:

https://twitter.com/FirenzeMike/status/1282099967738478592?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 11, 2020, 09:27:09 PM
Tribalism, Mask Edition:

https://twitter.com/FirenzeMike/status/1282099967738478592?s=19

Either that or the products of a Russian bot farm.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 11, 2020, 09:48:48 PM
https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1282068536731611142?s=21

Is this a game changer or not?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 11, 2020, 10:24:05 PM
I don’t know. In his comments, he only referenced that wearing a mask in a hospital is appropriate. But I hope for the sake of the rest of us  that it becomes a game changer.
After all, there was the governor ( I can’t remember if it was Florida or Georgia) who decided to take some action only because the President’s demeanor changed.
He does not look like the Lone Ranger though.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 11, 2020, 11:07:48 PM
https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1282068536731611142?s=21

Is this a game changer or not?


Maybe…but only if he continues to wear one, and unequivocally states that everybody should wear masks in public. If he backtracks or equivocates, it may just be a blip on the screen.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 11, 2020, 11:24:09 PM
https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1282068536731611142?s=21

Is this a game changer or not?

No.

He has ignored the virus - and more often lied about it, so wearing a mask one time means he is doing something right?

Still the worst leader in U.S. history. His actions have led to the deaths of tens of thousands of people.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 12, 2020, 06:15:28 AM

We have yet to find a cure for stupid.

Theoretically, education.    But tribalism trumps even that, sometimes.

Hopefully, he continues to wear one.   Hopefully, his continued wearing of a mask convinces more of the mask-averse to wear one, too.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 12, 2020, 08:51:51 AM
https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1282068536731611142?s=21

Is this a game changer or not?

He literally said in an interview that there is a time and place for masks, implying that some of the time, perhaps much of the time wearing one isn't it.

He hasn't wore a mask for two reasons in my opinion:

1) Straight up Vanity.
2) He sees mask wearing for himself as a sign of weakness, a sign of failure, a sign of losing. He doesn't want to wear that reminder daily. A more secure person would have been wearing a mask for months.

This was Walter Reed, high risk category people in the military. Do you really believe he'll go from not wearing one at all, to every day with great frequency? I don't. If he does, good, better late than never. But as we have seen his unwillingness to wear a mask and unwillingness to encourage his tribe to wear a mask has had deadly consequences for some. That can never be erased.

https://twitter.com/Marmel/status/1282152323104468992?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on July 12, 2020, 10:57:58 AM
https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1282068536731611142?s=21

Is this a game changer or not?

This? No
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 12, 2020, 11:11:03 AM
Ha, I'm highly amused (and very concerned) when  see folks pulling the mask under their nose.

Sure, it makes breathing easier, doesn't fog up glasses.

But it's about as useful as putting a band-aid below a cut to catch the blood coming out.  :o
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 12, 2020, 12:02:39 PM
Ha, I'm highly amused (and very concerned) when  see folks pulling the mask under their nose.

Sure, it makes breathing easier, doesn't fog up glasses.

But it's about as useful as putting a band-aid below a cut to catch the blood coming out.  :o

Some people know masks are required certain places. So they wear them to those places but they have the masks pulled down often knowing there will be little to no enforcement, and/or they could always wear it properly when need be. This is a category of people.

This unfortunately puts more unnecessary pressure on some workers and people out there just trying to do their jobs, save lives, and get through the day.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 13, 2020, 08:24:57 AM
Cleveland Tennessee Pastor has "Given Up Counting" COVID-19 cases in his congregation. Says they should have worn masks and social distanced.

"It slipped in on us...It's nobody's fault."

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2020/jul/12/pastor-says-he-got-covid-19-gave-counting-chu/527332/#/questions/
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 13, 2020, 09:35:25 AM
Cleveland Tennessee Pastor has "Given Up Counting" COVID-19 cases in his congregation. Says they should have worn masks and social distanced.

"It slipped in on us...It's nobody's fault."

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2020/jul/12/pastor-says-he-got-covid-19-gave-counting-chu/527332/#/questions/

Typical lying religious creep. Trying to lie his way out of taking responsibility.

He is wrong that "It's nobody's fault". It is all on him. He made his congregation sick.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 13, 2020, 09:59:18 AM
(https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/apGNrO9_700b.jpg)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 13, 2020, 11:41:31 AM

Texas Senator Ted Cruz refuses to wear a mask both while waiting for his commercial American Airlines flight and on the flight itself:

https://twitter.com/hossehenad/status/1282498098858786818?s=19

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 13, 2020, 11:49:15 AM
Missouri Governor Mike Parson not wearing a mask at a Missouri Cattle Association event, just after he tweeted for others to wear a mask and socially distance.

https://twitter.com/GovParsonMO/status/1282137611805523969?s=19

https://twitter.com/GovParsonMO/status/1281713307498340352?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on July 13, 2020, 12:43:51 PM
This? No

Just another day in the life of a normal person who has fully mastered the art of standing upright.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 14, 2020, 10:28:44 AM
https://www.cityofkeywest-fl.gov/egov/documents/1594659922_43254.pdf

Key West is requiring masks whenever you leave your home ( except when eating, drinking, or in your own vehicle, basically)
inside or outside, whether Social distance can be maintained or not.
In plain language, you must wear a mask even if just walking down the street. Ability to social distance does not matter.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 14, 2020, 10:37:28 AM
https://www.cityofkeywest-fl.gov/egov/documents/1594659922_43254.pdf

Key West is requiring masks whenever you leave your home ( except when eating, drinking, or in your own vehicle, basically)
inside or outside, whether Social distance can be maintained or not.
In plain language, you must wear a mask even if just walking down the street. Ability to social distance does not matter.


Makes sense, if they're working towards enforcement that is way easier to enforce.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 14, 2020, 11:23:26 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 14, 2020, 02:57:47 PM
https://www.cityofkeywest-fl.gov/egov/documents/1594659922_43254.pdf

Key West is requiring masks whenever you leave your home ( except when eating, drinking, or in your own vehicle, basically)
inside or outside, whether Social distance can be maintained or not.
In plain language, you must wear a mask even if just walking down the street. Ability to social distance does not matter.

How to do they determine if some people can't wear them due to medical condition.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on July 14, 2020, 02:59:01 PM
How to do they determine if some people can't wear them due to medical condition.

Because those medical conditions don't exist?

Or because if they do exist, and the person in question has that medical condition, they maybe shouldn't be wandering around Key West?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: withoutbias on July 14, 2020, 03:14:56 PM
This? No

Well, he is a mouth breather, so this probably is actually quite effective.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 14, 2020, 04:04:03 PM
Because those medical conditions don't exist?

Or because if they do exist, and the person in question has that medical condition, they maybe shouldn't be wandering around Key West?


Yep. If they are wearing a mask so tightly that it really limits their air supply, they need to reevaluate how they are wearing it. And if they are so anxious that wearing a mask might trigger a panic attack, it probably isn't a good idea to be wandering around during a global pandemic.

And before someone criticizes me for being insensitive of those with anxiety issues - I have had many panic attacks. Like full-scale 'take me to the ER, I'm having a heart attack' panic attacks, so I know how debilitating they can be. I also know that you can manage them with practice, and learn to live with them when they happen (sit down, close your eyes, breathe deeply, etc).

I applaud Key West's action.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on July 14, 2020, 05:08:54 PM


I am sure that the same doctors that work in medical marijuana "clinics" and prescribe for anyone who tell them they have anxiety will gladly write a note for anyone who wants one exempting them from masks.  It's easy money.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Mutaman on July 15, 2020, 12:47:06 AM
https://www.cityofkeywest-fl.gov/egov/documents/1594659922_43254.pdf

Key West is requiring masks whenever you leave your home ( except when eating, drinking, or in your own vehicle, basically)
inside or outside, whether Social distance can be maintained or not.
In plain language, you must wear a mask even if just walking down the street. Ability to social distance does not matter.

Watching the Duval Street web cam I'd say about 99% of the people were not wearing masks. On the UWS of NYC I'd say about 90 % wear them and you can't get into a store without one.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 09:28:37 AM
Because those medical conditions don't exist?

Or because if they do exist, and the person in question has that medical condition, they maybe shouldn't be wandering around Key West?

They actually do exist, so don't be so dismissive.  I work with plenty of at risk individuals who cannot wear a mask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 15, 2020, 09:35:23 AM
Walmart will require masks at all of their stores beginning Monday. (This was already in place a while, even months in some geographies in various cities and states with mask mandates.)  Enforcement has been so so. And of course there have been some who wear a mask only to have it pulled down the entire time they are in the store.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/15/business/walmart-masks/index.html?__twitter_impression=true



Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 15, 2020, 09:48:51 AM
Anybody see the study about mask effectiveness? Since the numbers went down I've been using a bandana. Didn't know it was essentially useless.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 09:55:46 AM
Anybody see the study about mask effectiveness? Since the numbers went down I've been using a bandana. Didn't know it was essentially useless.

You'll notice more and more people call them face coverings
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on July 15, 2020, 10:06:24 AM
They actually do exist, so don't be so dismissive.  I work with plenty of at risk individuals who cannot wear a mask.

MY 95 yo father requires oxygen and wears a mask in public. Not sure I have seen many people that can't put a mask on for brief periods of time.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on July 15, 2020, 10:14:46 AM
They actually do exist, so don't be so dismissive.  I work with plenty of at risk individuals who cannot wear a mask.

Maybe they shouldn't walk around Key West during a pandemic that primarily attacks the respiratory system?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUfan12 on July 15, 2020, 10:34:56 AM
Anybody see the study about mask effectiveness? Since the numbers went down I've been using a bandana. Didn't know it was essentially useless.

Have a link? I'd be interested in seeing the study.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 15, 2020, 11:26:19 AM
Have a link? I'd be interested in seeing the study.

https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/efficacy-facemasks-coronavirus.php
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on July 15, 2020, 12:11:49 PM
https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/efficacy-facemasks-coronavirus.php

The bandana is useless, they're cheap, thin pieces of cloth.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 12:50:01 PM
Maybe they shouldn't walk around Key West during a pandemic that primarily attacks the respiratory system?

Yeah we don't live in a vacuum here.  I don't think that Key West is the only city doing this.

Since all of Dane County requires masks as well.

MY 95 yo father requires oxygen and wears a mask in public. Not sure I have seen many people that can't put a mask on for brief periods of time.

That's nice for your father, but you do what anecdotal means, right?  I'm telling you, I have a few developmentally disabled people who cannot.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 15, 2020, 12:51:04 PM
Disagree about "useless". With a bandana the 6ft guideline is still in play as opposed to without. Sure there are more effective options, but wearing a bandana is still protecting others with distancing.

From the study:
Quote
Without a mask, droplets traveled more than 8 feet; with a bandana, they traveled 3 feet, 7 inches; with a folded cotton handkerchief, they traveled 1 foot, 3 inches; with the stitched quilting cotton mask, they traveled 2.5 inches; and with the cone-style mask, droplets traveled about 8 inches. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on July 15, 2020, 01:08:15 PM
Yeah we don't live in a vacuum here.  I don't think that Key West is the only city doing this.

Since all of Dane County requires masks as well.

That's nice for your father, but you do what anecdotal means, right?  I'm telling you, I have a few developmentally disabled people who cannot.

not sure if trolling or...

But in all seriousness, yes, the world is large and the population is massive enough that there will invariably be a statistically miniscule number of people who "cannot" wear masks for one reason or another. My response to them does not change: If you have a medical condition that renders you incapable of wearing a mask, then you should not be in public during a pandemic.

The larger issue that was implicit in your "how will they tell who has a legitimate excuse and cannot wear a mask" concern post is that it gives cover to people who want an excuse to not wear a mask because they're too selfish to do so. I've seen enough fake service dog vests on dachsunds to know that the shamelessness of some of my fellow Americans knows no depths, so I'm confident there are people out there using your legitimate concern for your coworkers to evade wearing a mask. Heck, there's even a mask exemption card grift floating around citing nonsense laws that do not apply and do not provide a legal exemption to mask requirements.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 01:14:10 PM
not sure if trolling or...

But in all seriousness, yes, the world is large and the population is massive enough that there will invariably be a statistically miniscule number of people who "cannot" wear masks for one reason or another. My response to them does not change: If you have a medical condition that renders you incapable of wearing a mask, then you should not be in public during a pandemic.

The larger issue that was implicit in your "how will they tell who has a legitimate excuse and cannot wear a mask" concern post is that it gives cover to people who want an excuse to not wear a mask because they're too selfish to do so. I've seen enough fake service dog vests on dachsunds to know that the shamelessness of some of my fellow Americans knows no depths, so I'm confident there are people out there using your legitimate concern for your coworkers to evade wearing a mask. Heck, there's even a mask exemption card grift floating around citing nonsense laws that do not apply and do not provide a legal exemption to mask requirements.

I'm sorry you read into something incorrectly.

You think it's right to require people who absolutely cannot wear a mask to stay home?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on July 15, 2020, 01:29:38 PM
I'm sorry you read into something incorrectly.

You think it's right to require people who absolutely cannot wear a mask to stay home?

I was simply pointing out that you pointed out one person's anecdote and then replied with one of your own.

And, again, my position has not changed: If you have some kind of condition that prohibits you from wearing a mask, going out during a pandemic is an unwise decision.

It's probably unwise for a person who needs contacts to drive without them, and just because they got pink eye and can't wear those lenses doesn't grant them an exemption from doing the thing that is actively risky to themselves and society.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 01:46:01 PM
I was simply pointing out that you pointed out one person's anecdote and then replied with one of your own.

And, again, my position has not changed: If you have some kind of condition that prohibits you from wearing a mask, going out during a pandemic is an unwise decision.

It's probably unwise for a person who needs contacts to drive without them, and just because they got pink eye and can't wear those lenses doesn't grant them an exemption from doing the thing that is actively risky to themselves and society.

Ah, unwise now.  I was asking about enforcement.

Also, my point wasn't anecdotal... you may want to figure out what that means.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on July 15, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
Ah, unwise now.  I was asking about enforcement.

Also, my point wasn't anecdotal... you may want to figure out what that means.

Unwise to the point where enforcement is warranted. There are external costs associated with perpetuating the myth that there are many people wandering around who cannot tolerate wearing masks. Forcing everyone to wear masks and allowing no exceptions is a means of addressing those costs.

So, yes, sorry, but the vanishingly small number of people who are unable to wear masks should stay indoors. Many people stay indoors and manage to survive, so somehow, I suspect they'll make it.

And... what do you think anecdotal means? Because "I have a few developmentally disabled people who cannot [wear masks]" is... uh... an anecdote.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 15, 2020, 01:58:16 PM
I'm sorry you read into something incorrectly.

You think it's right to require people who absolutely cannot wear a mask to stay home?

In a pandemic, hopefully they would be smart enough to stay home.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 15, 2020, 02:11:50 PM
Those who claim they can't wear a mask because of a medical condition are almost certainly lying.

"There are no known medical conditions aside from a severe skin condition [like a very severe burn that needs medical attention] on your face that would prevent a person from wearing this type of mask,” David Kaufman, MD, pulmonologist and director of the medical ICU at Tisch Hospital, tells Health. “If you can wear a scarf to keep your face warm in the winter, you can wear a mask to prevent the spread of disease.”


https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/can-you-be-medically-exempt-from-wearing-a-face-mask
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 15, 2020, 02:15:40 PM
BBC did a segment on masks the other night and it was interesting.  They asked Americans, Canadians, Australians, and Brits about their opinions on mask wearing then asked Japanese and Koreans (whom obviously have a much higher rate of wearing masks).

Multiple Japanese had a simple response why Asians wear masks more:  "In Asia other's lives outweighs individual freedom.  In some parts of the West,  individual freedom outweighs other people's lives".

Can explain so many things about our culture.  What is interesting is no one in the Western countries owned up to this exact thing when they were asked why.  It was always word salad non-sense,  about mask wearing rules are confusing, or about Asians following rules, etc..

So not only do we value our individual freedom than our fellow compatriot's life,  we don't even have the integrity to admit it.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUBurrow on July 15, 2020, 02:24:21 PM
Multiple Japanese had a simple response why Asians wear masks more:  "In Asia other's lives outweighs individual freedom.  In some parts of the West,  individual freedom outweighs other people's lives".

Can explain so many things about our culture.  What is interesting is no one in the Western countries owned up to this exact thing when they were asked why.  It was always word salad non-sense,  about mask wearing rules are confusing, or about Asians following rules, etc..

So not only do we value our individual freedom than our fellow compatriot's life,  we don't even have the integrity to admit it.

But the bolded might be the better way to look at it! I hate slippery slope arguments because they are all logic fallacies, but there's a legitimate and unresolvable debate to be had around individualism vs collectivism.  I still can't fathom why some deem wearing a mask during a pandemic to be the place to make this stand (I think if you boil it down, its a sad commentary on the lack of purpose most Americans see in their own lives, and this is as close a chance as they'll get to risking their lives for what they perceive to be any kind of reasonable purpose, but that's a deeper debate for another day).  But I'm not sure the root position of valuing an conception of individual freedom over compatriot's lives is prima facie devoid of integrity as your last sentence seems to infer.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 15, 2020, 02:29:12 PM
  But I'm not sure the root position of valuing an conception of individual freedom over compatriot's lives is prima facie devoid of integrity as your last sentence seems to infer.

Maybe it isn't integrity?  Maybe is a lack of self awareness?  Either way those Japanese succinctly stated something that we rarely admit.  If we can do what we want,  then we don't care if someone else suffers as a result.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on July 15, 2020, 02:38:35 PM


That's nice for your father, but you do what anecdotal means, right?  I'm telling you, I have a few developmentally disabled people who cannot.

Thank you for your perfect example of anecdotal.  ;D
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 02:43:34 PM
Unwise to the point where enforcement is warranted. There are external costs associated with perpetuating the myth that there are many people wandering around who cannot tolerate wearing masks. Forcing everyone to wear masks and allowing no exceptions is a means of addressing those costs.

So, yes, sorry, but the vanishingly small number of people who are unable to wear masks should stay indoors. Many people stay indoors and manage to survive, so somehow, I suspect they'll make it.

And... what do you think anecdotal means? Because "I have a few developmentally disabled people who cannot [wear masks]" is... uh... an anecdote.

But I'm not perpetuating that myth.  If you want to require face coverings, there needs to be exceptions.  I'm not talking about people who clearly flaunt rules like jackasses.  I'm talking about people who shouldn't be forced to be locked up over a mask.  What do you suggest someone with no family, no friends, and no means to get necessities do? 

My statement wasn't anecdotal because there are hundreds of people in Dane County alone that can't wear masks.  That is a far cry from a personal story about someone's 95 year old father.  Learn the difference.  My statement has nothing to do with personal experience, it is other people's verifiable experience.

Those who claim they can't wear a mask because of a medical condition are almost certainly lying.

"There are no known medical conditions aside from a severe skin condition [like a very severe burn that needs medical attention] on your face that would prevent a person from wearing this type of mask,” David Kaufman, MD, pulmonologist and director of the medical ICU at Tisch Hospital, tells Health. “If you can wear a scarf to keep your face warm in the winter, you can wear a mask to prevent the spread of disease.”


https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/can-you-be-medically-exempt-from-wearing-a-face-mask

I have customers who salivate/drool to the point that they need to wear a bib or towel in public tied around their neck.  A mask could cause them problems with breathing easily.  I guess I'm just pointing out that all of this isn't so cut and dry (no pun intended).
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 02:44:40 PM
Thank you for your perfect example of anecdotal.  ;D

Except it isn't.  I can't tell you their names.  You'd only need to meet one in person to realize that it isn't anecdotal. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 15, 2020, 03:01:30 PM
I have customers who salivate/drool to the point that they need to wear a bib or towel in public tied around their neck.  A mask could cause them problems with breathing easily.  I guess I'm just pointing out that all of this isn't so cut and dry (no pun intended).

That shouldn't prevent someone from wearing a mask. I can't imagine it would be comfortable or convenient. It probably would require frequent changing or cleaning. But, IMO, you don't get to put everyone around you at risk because a mask would be uncomfortable or inconvenient.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 03:04:37 PM
That shouldn't prevent someone from wearing a mask. I can't imagine it would be comfortable or convenient. It probably would require frequent changing or cleaning. But, IMO, you don't get to put everyone around you at risk because a mask would be uncomfortable or inconvenient.

https://publichealthmdc.com/documents/2020-07-07_Order_8.pdf

Quote
While the majority of people are able to wear cloth face coverings, some people may not be
able to due to a medical condition, mental condition, or disability. Additionally, some people of
color in the U.S. have experienced harassment and racism due to wearing a face covering in
public. The following Order should not be used as justification to harass or harm another
person who is either wearing or not wearing a face covering. People should assume others have
valid reasons for wearing or not wearing a face covering

Quote
The following individuals are exempt from the requirement to
wear a face covering:
1. Individuals for whom wearing a face covering would
create a risk to the person related to their work, as
determined by government safety guidelines.
2. Individuals with a medical condition, mental health
condition, or disability that prevents them from wearing
a face covering.

I guess public officials agree there should be exceptions.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 15, 2020, 03:09:23 PM
Except it isn't.  I can't tell you their names.  You'd only need to meet one in person to realize that it isn't anecdotal.


I don't question your point at all, Hards. But I think even you would admin this applies to maybe 1% of the population, if that.

I think when someone here said most people are lying when they said they cant wear masks, he was correct. Both points can be correct.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 15, 2020, 03:10:09 PM
Saw an interview of a group down in Florida protesting masks saying "my body my right" I don't think they picked up on the hilarious irony
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 03:12:37 PM

I don't question your point at all, Hards. But I think even you would admin this applies to maybe 1% of the population, if that.

I think when someone here said most people are lying when they said they cant wear masks, he was correct. Both points can be correct.

Oh, absolutely, I'm merely pointing out that 1% exists.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 15, 2020, 03:14:36 PM
https://publichealthmdc.com/documents/2020-07-07_Order_8.pdf

I guess public officials agree there should be exceptions.

So now we're ignoring the science?
Look, just because public officials are allowing for exceptions doesn't mean there are, in fact, medical conditions that prevent mask wearing. I'll stand with the doctors who say there are virtually none. And by my remark that anyone who claims a medical condition prevents him/her from wearing a mask is almost certainly lying.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 03:16:00 PM
So now we're ignoring the science?
Look, just because public officials are allowing for exceptions doesn't mean there are, in fact, medical conditions that prevent mask wearing. I'll stand with the doctors who say there are virtually none. And by my remark that anyone who claims a medical condition prevents him/her from wearing a mask is almost certainly lying.

Thanks.  I'm not saying that people shouldn't wear masks.  Merely stating that for a very select few people it isn't an option to wear one.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 15, 2020, 03:25:41 PM
Thanks.  I'm not saying that people shouldn't wear masks.  Merely stating that for a very select few people it isn't an option to wear one.

Then we agree. If someone claims they have a medical condition that prevents them from wearing a mask, they're almost certainly lying.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 03:42:57 PM
Then we agree. If someone claims they have a medical condition that prevents them from wearing a mask, they're almost certainly lying.

Thanks for the qualifiers  ;)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 15, 2020, 04:00:30 PM
Those who claim they can't wear a mask because of a medical condition are almost certainly lying.

"There are no known medical conditions aside from a severe skin condition [like a very severe burn that needs medical attention] on your face that would prevent a person from wearing this type of mask,” David Kaufman, MD, pulmonologist and director of the medical ICU at Tisch Hospital, tells Health. “If you can wear a scarf to keep your face warm in the winter, you can wear a mask to prevent the spread of disease.”


https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/can-you-be-medically-exempt-from-wearing-a-face-mask

I found out this week a co-worker in our other Connecticut facility apparently terribly bloodied himself good while shaving and spent the day wearing the mask at work.  He came down with an infection on his face that required antibiotics.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 15, 2020, 04:14:29 PM
I found out this week a co-worker in our other Connecticut facility apparently terribly bloodied himself good while shaving and spent the day wearing the mask at work.  He came down with an infection on his face that required antibiotics.

Maybe he should have put a mask on his wound.  I think they are commonly known as Band-Aids. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 15, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
I found out this week a co-worker in our other Connecticut facility apparently terribly bloodied himself good while shaving and spent the day wearing the mask at work.  He came down with an infection on his face that required antibiotics.

Did he wear a band aid? Did he put antibiotic lotion on his terrible cut? Did he clean his mask or put on a new/clean one?
Unless he did these things, the fault is his, not the mask's. Being dumb is not a medical condition.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 15, 2020, 04:18:44 PM
Thanks for the qualifiers  ;)

You're welcome. I wrote the exact same thing in the earlier post.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 15, 2020, 05:14:18 PM
Being dumb is not a medical condition.

Yes, but I'm hopeful some day we'll have a vaccine for that!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 15, 2020, 07:11:59 PM
Saw an interview of a group down in Florida protesting masks saying "my body my right" I don't think they picked up on the hilarious irony

Yes, I noticed all those people marching recently protesting seatbelts.

Yes, I know you were referring to abortion.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 15, 2020, 08:31:01 PM
San Diego, California (Stay Classy)

Denied service at Starbucks, a pelvic exam, a chiropractor, $100,000, education and dancing.....if you had all that on today's segment of wear a mask, you are in luck:

https://www.fox4now.com/news/national/woman-who-refused-to-wear-mask-wants-half-of-100k-donated-to-starbucks-barista
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Cfollow on July 15, 2020, 08:52:34 PM
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

By all means wear a mask every second you leave the house.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 15, 2020, 09:36:58 PM
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

By all means wear a mask every second you leave the house.

1) from Apr 1!
2) "perspective", "commentary" - not science
3) actually science, published 3 months later: https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/efficacy-facemasks-coronavirus.php
4) but since you seem to respect Dr Brosseau, here's some of her more recent commentary: https://www.boston25news.com/news/health/aerosol-covid-19-transmission-could-impact-reopenings/S2ZPLRHDKNA3ZH5XRWIQRMAC2A/
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 15, 2020, 10:15:56 PM
1) from Apr 1!
2) "perspective", "commentary" - not science
3) actually science, published 3 months later: https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/efficacy-facemasks-coronavirus.php
4) but since you seem to respect Dr Brosseau, here's some of her more recent commentary: https://www.boston25news.com/news/health/aerosol-covid-19-transmission-could-impact-reopenings/S2ZPLRHDKNA3ZH5XRWIQRMAC2A/

Hold up, Cfollow is a scientist.  Let's allow him to explain himself.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 15, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
Hold up, Cfollow is a scientist.  Let's allow him to explain himself.

Actually, I think it was his dad who was a scientist.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 15, 2020, 11:16:23 PM
Well if Amber had a fibroid in 2015 large enough to cause a breathing problem, one presumes it would have been taken care of by now. 
I can't speak to asthma, but certainly mask acne would not qualify for a medical exemption. 
And a chiropractor writes a handwritten note that says contact me if you have any questions, but then won't actually answer any questions? Then why did he say to contact him? 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 16, 2020, 05:25:49 AM
Did he wear a band aid? Did he put antibiotic lotion on his terrible cut? Did he clean his mask or put on a new/clean one?
Unless he did these things, the fault is his, not the mask's. Being dumb is not a medical condition.

Pak,
I totally agree.  He is supposed to be visiting my location this week and we already collectively decided to break his stones about it because it never should have happened.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 16, 2020, 07:43:59 AM
Georgia Governor Brian Kemp bans masks in 15 local Georgia governments:

https://apnews.com/71bc07efaebc1b2d3b9aaf9bdc795d5d?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 16, 2020, 07:58:53 AM
Kemp is waiting for Trump’s demeanor to change in a press conference again. Or perhaps he still doesn’t actually realize that it is spread person-to-person. Or he just wants to kill his own constituents. Who knows.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 16, 2020, 08:06:16 AM
Georgia Governor Brian Kemp bans masks in 15 local Georgua governments:

https://apnews.com/71bc07efaebc1b2d3b9aaf9bdc795d5d?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow


This is the dumbest thing I ever heard.  FFS.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: #UnleashSean on July 16, 2020, 09:13:23 AM
Georgia Governor Brian Kemp bans masks in 15 local Georgua governments:

https://apnews.com/71bc07efaebc1b2d3b9aaf9bdc795d5d?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

Lol
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 16, 2020, 09:23:09 AM

This is the dumbest thing I ever heard.  FFS.

If Georgia was its own country (no pun intended!),  at 77.7 years life expectancy it would rank 60th in the world with neighbors Thailand, Ecuador,  Colombia, and Bosnia.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 16, 2020, 09:41:24 AM

This is the dumbest thing I ever heard.  FFS.

Obviously you have never heard of a guy named trump. Mainlining bleach ring a bell?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on July 16, 2020, 10:02:23 AM

This is the dumbest thing I ever heard.  FFS.

(https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.flyertalk.com-vbulletin/311x162/thisisfine_82578ffda0a780299ebaef50d0a5ab76c98615fe.jpg)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Lens on July 16, 2020, 10:34:09 AM
He is an idiot but let's not just post he banned masks.  What he did is void / ban the mandatory order and then tepidly said he encouraged people to wear them.   

Quote
Georgia’s Gov. Brian Kemp is explicitly banning Georgia’s cities and counties from ordering people to wear masks in public places. He voided orders on Wednesday that at least 15 local governments across the state had adopted even though Kemp had earlier said cities and counties had no power to order masks.

An increasing number of other states order residents to wear masks in public, including Alabama, which announced such a ban Wednesday.

The Republican governor has instead been trying to encourage voluntary mask wearing, including telling fans that reduced infections from mask-wearing would make college football season possible.

Kemp’s move is likely to infuriate local officials in communities that had acted, including Atlanta, Augusta, Savannah, Rome and the governor’s hometown of Athens-Clarke County. Overall, mask orders by Wednesday were covering 1.4 million of Georgia’s more than 10 million residents.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 16, 2020, 10:46:55 AM
He is an idiot but let's not just post he banned masks.  What he did is void / ban the mandatory order and then tepidly said he encouraged people to wear them.

Thank you for the clarification.  Though, it's still not "the american way" to take powers away from local governments - unless it's a constitutional issue...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 16, 2020, 10:51:53 AM
He is an idiot but let's not just post he banned masks.  What he did is void / ban the mandatory order and then tepidly said he encouraged people to wear them.

True.  He did encourage people to still wear masks.  But this sends the wrong signal at a critical time.  Plus localities now have lost any bite they had to increase mask usage.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 16, 2020, 10:58:04 AM
Leaders lead. Actions speak louder than words. It would help if elected officials would wear masks.

Missouri Governor tweet last weekend encouraging mask wearing and social distancing:

https://twitter.com/govparsonmo/status/1281713307498340352

This is the Governor, ONE day later:

https://twitter.com/govparsonmo/status/1282137611805523969
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 16, 2020, 11:14:19 AM
Happy to see large private businesses taking matters into their own hands...

https://www.ksl.com/article/46777040/walmart-sams-club-kroger-and-kohls-latest-retailers-to-require-customers-to-wear-masks
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 16, 2020, 11:23:29 AM
Happy to see large private businesses taking matters into their own hands...

https://www.ksl.com/article/46777040/walmart-sams-club-kroger-and-kohls-latest-retailers-to-require-customers-to-wear-masks

I was hopeful that Costco was going to be the catalyst back when they mandated masks.  Hopefully, Walmart becomes that catalyst.

Looking at you, Target.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on July 16, 2020, 11:28:40 AM
I was hopeful that Costco was going to be the catalyst back when they mandated masks.  Hopefully, Walmart becomes that catalyst.

Looking at you, Target.

CVS and Target join other major retailers in requiring masks in US stores

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/16/business/cvs-target-masks-required/index.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 16, 2020, 11:46:45 AM
CVS and Target join other major retailers in requiring masks in US stores

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/16/business/cvs-target-masks-required/index.html

Ha!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 16, 2020, 12:23:34 PM
Waiting on Walgreens.
I was in my local store Sunday morning and 3/4 in line weren’t wearing masks, and we have a mask mandate in Illinois. Employees said corporate told them not to enforce it. And Walgreens is an Illinois company.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 16, 2020, 12:31:49 PM
https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1283813432614170624?s=19

"Why America is losing the fight against Covid" ...Crowded maskless parents demand to know why their kids have to wear masks to school...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 16, 2020, 12:59:14 PM
https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1283813432614170624?s=19

"Why America is losing the fight against Covid" ...Crowded maskless parents demand to know why their kids have to wear masks to school...
From the article:

"They packed into the small boardroom to talk, pulling tape off the seats meant to maintain social distancing and crowding in against the walls. They wore “Trump 2020” hats and carried little American flags, and every time someone said “freedom” or “constitutional rights” the whole room cheered. Almost no one wore a mask; those who did had them pulled under their chins."

Covidiots. If they just wanted to Darwin themselves it would be fine, but instead we have to share a country with these mouthbreathers.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 16, 2020, 03:06:49 PM
From the article:

"They packed into the small boardroom to talk, pulling tape off the seats meant to maintain social distancing and crowding in against the walls. They wore “Trump 2020” hats and carried little American flags, and every time someone said “freedom” or “constitutional rights” the whole room cheered. Almost no one wore a mask; those who did had them pulled under their chins."

Covidiots. If they just wanted to Darwin themselves it would be fine, but instead we have to share a country with these mouthbreathers.


Elections have consequences. Deadly consequences.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 16, 2020, 06:15:28 PM
Masks are exactly like yellow stars forced on Jews during the Holocaust. Also, slavery.

https://t.co/BmUd61nSVu
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 16, 2020, 08:36:20 PM
Masks are exactly like yellow stars forced on Jews during the Holocaust. Also, slavery.

https://t.co/BmUd61nSVu

Take her to DC and make her go to the Holocaust museum.  It's the only cure for idiots like this.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 16, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
Take her to DC and make her go to the Holocaust museum.  It's the only cure for idiots like this.
Nah, they'll just call it fake news.

Hey, remember when keefe plagiarized a holocaust denier? Ahhh, good times.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 17, 2020, 09:19:34 AM
Kemp is now suing the Mayor of Atlanta over mask mandate:

https://twitter.com/KeishaBottoms/status/1283891470190206987?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on July 17, 2020, 12:46:35 PM
Kemp is now suing the Mayor of Atlanta over mask mandate:

https://twitter.com/KeishaBottoms/status/1283891470190206987?s=19

This is the same guy who rigged his own election, right?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 17, 2020, 01:48:28 PM
This is the same guy who rigged his own election, right?

Yes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Mutaman on July 18, 2020, 12:56:03 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/17/upshot/coronavirus-face-mask-map.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 18, 2020, 07:27:12 AM
Ah, Missouri ...

https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article244274647.html?

One woman wore a wedding veil as a face shield and warned against moving toward a socialist society. Another brought a sign calling out the mayor for his “mask asphyxiation orders.”

At a meeting Thursday on a proposed mask ordinance in Branson, resident after resident repeated deep suspicions of public health experts, the healthcare system and data tracking the spread of COVID-19. They invoked the Bible, rejected research showing masks can slow the spread of the virus and embraced conspiracy theories about everything from the so-called “deep state” to Bill Gates.

In the end, after nearly 8½ hours, the board of aldermen voted unanimously late Thursday to postpone a vote on whether the southwest Missouri tourist town should be the latest to adopt a mask ordinance to fend off and contain the coronavirus.

“Excuse me if I sound a little punch drunk, I’m freaking tired,” said Branson Alderman Bill Skains about 7½ hours in and after nearly 40 members of the public had spoken. “It is just absurd the things that I’ve heard. … Some of the wackiest stuff I’ve ever heard in my life — over wearing a mask.”
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 18, 2020, 08:34:17 AM
At a meeting Thursday on a proposed mask ordinance in Branson, resident after resident repeated deep suspicions of public health experts, the healthcare system and data tracking the spread of COVID-19. They invoked the Bible, rejected research showing masks can slow the spread of the virus and embraced conspiracy theories about everything from the so-called “deep state” to Bill Gates.
The right wing has been extraordinarily successful in instilling this stupidity into their followers. Heck, we have several "healthcare professionals" right here on scoop that fit this category.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 18, 2020, 09:05:27 AM
The right wing has been extraordinarily successful in instilling this stupidity into their followers. Heck, we have several "healthcare professionals" right here on scoop that fit this category.

The personal attacks are unnecessary, TS. The article speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 18, 2020, 09:18:29 AM
Ah, Missouri ...

https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article244274647.html?

One woman wore a wedding veil as a face shield and warned against moving toward a socialist society. Another brought a sign calling out the mayor for his “mask asphyxiation orders.”

At a meeting Thursday on a proposed mask ordinance in Branson, resident after resident repeated deep suspicions of public health experts, the healthcare system and data tracking the spread of COVID-19. They invoked the Bible, rejected research showing masks can slow the spread of the virus and embraced conspiracy theories about everything from the so-called “deep state” to Bill Gates.

In the end, after nearly 8½ hours, the board of aldermen voted unanimously late Thursday to postpone a vote on whether the southwest Missouri tourist town should be the latest to adopt a mask ordinance to fend off and contain the coronavirus.

“Excuse me if I sound a little punch drunk, I’m freaking tired,” said Branson Alderman Bill Skains about 7½ hours in and after nearly 40 members of the public had spoken. “It is just absurd the things that I’ve heard. … Some of the wackiest stuff I’ve ever heard in my life — over wearing a mask.”


Missouri is interesting because the rural parts of the state often hold the power over the two larger metro areas of the state, and they often do not support those areas.

The maskless non-elected Gov has recently publicly supported the McCloskeys (as has the President).

Stl and KC have long had mask mandates etc at the local level. Branson is a whole other place. Recently they were in the news because of their Confederate Flag store. In a different year they would be known for their theme park, lakes, shows. But this has exposed some of the people there to a wider audience.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: injuryBug on July 18, 2020, 10:40:15 AM
The latest big push for masks has worked in my area.  Was at Walmart, Target and local grocery store over the past 2 days.  None require masks at this time but last week I would say it was close to 50/50 on masks this week it was easily 90%+ masks
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on July 18, 2020, 06:51:04 PM
The right wing has been extraordinarily successful in instilling this stupidity into their followers. Heck, we have several "healthcare professionals" right here on scoop that fit this category.

https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/05/27/anti-vaccine-republican-mainstream-1344955?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 20, 2020, 10:31:05 PM
Having zero experience, getting paid a $34.5 million contract for masks and other medical supplies, but delivering zero while people die:


https://www.propublica.org/article/how-profit-and-incompetence-delayed-n95-masks-while-people-died-at-the-va/amp?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on July 21, 2020, 04:46:59 PM
Trump has now reversed course and said he’s fine with masks and carries one to wear in groups. Better late than never I guess
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 21, 2020, 06:44:33 PM
Trump has now reversed course and said he’s fine with masks and carries one to wear in groups. Better late than never I guess

My wife noticed that yesterday.  I was really excited to hear it.  And then I read his tweet she had heard about second hand and literally facepalmed.  Hopefully the "good" of masks keeps getting spread.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1285299379746811915
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 21, 2020, 07:10:39 PM
Trump doesn't wear a mask. He lies, and lies, and lies. He has others lie for him, about him. He will say whatever is convenient at the time.

He has worn a mask once, at Walter Reed. That's it.

Last night, at the Trump Hotel fundraiser, Trump wore no mask, had no social distance.

He will publicly say he is not anti-mask. He will say publicly that there is nothing wrong with masks. He will say publicly that he looks good in masks, like the lone ranger. He will say publicly that there is a time and place to wear a mask.

He will very rarely wear one moving forward, only when it is of the utmost important of situations, for a brief time.

The President of the United States, and the Vice President of the United States don't wear masks, not to protect others, not to set a good example for others. He doesn't wear one because 1) Vanity. 2) To him it is a symbol of losing and weakness.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 21, 2020, 07:18:43 PM
NC governor Roy Cooper:

“For those who continue to defy basic decency and common sense because they refuse to wear a mask — either wear one or don’t go in the store. The refusal to wear a mask is selfish. It infringes on the life and liberty of everyone else in the store.”
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 22, 2020, 07:32:25 AM
Write on, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 22, 2020, 06:35:17 PM
Huntington Beach:

https://twitter.com/BigEastSilver/status/1283186665440153600?s=19

https://twitter.com/kkay_laa/status/1283271479174414336?s=19

https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/1285944837657616384?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 22, 2020, 07:29:59 PM
Huntington Beach:

https://twitter.com/BigEastSilver/status/1283186665440153600?s=19

https://twitter.com/kkay_laa/status/1283271479174414336?s=19

https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/1285944837657616384?s=19

Shocking that California has more cases than any other state.  ::)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mu_hilltopper on July 23, 2020, 11:39:37 AM
I was going to ask "can someone play a lawyer and explain why people say 'being forced to wear a mask is unconstitutional!' from a legal perspective?"

Then I googled it:

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/can-the-government-legally-force-you-to-wear-a-mask/#
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 23, 2020, 12:17:42 PM
I have read comments in some of my legal groups ( this not being my area) that ADA does not require stores to allow a maskless person claiming a disability in, if they provide alternative accomodation , ie offering to shop for the person and deliver to their car, for example. They do not have to accommodate the person in the exact way requested.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 24, 2020, 03:32:36 PM
Trump has now reversed course and said he’s fine with masks and carries one to wear in groups. Better late than never I guess


Might want to re-think this one.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 25, 2020, 08:57:16 AM
Huntington Beach:

https://twitter.com/BigEastSilver/status/1283186665440153600?s=19

https://twitter.com/kkay_laa/status/1283271479174414336?s=19

https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/1285944837657616384?s=19

I'm no longer surprised by the abject stupidity but it's still infuriating.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 25, 2020, 09:10:41 AM
I'm no longer surprised by the abject stupidity but it's still infuriating.

For me, it's less about the tribe and tribalists (who are very important don't get me wrong).....but more about the people who intentionally prey upon the fears already existing within the tribe. This lady in Springfield, MO is suing about masks. A woman mentioned her son has cancer and asked if people would wear masks. The response: It's not my responsibility your son has cancer.

https://twitter.com/AishaS/status/1286743719606128646?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 25, 2020, 09:55:10 AM
For me, it's less about the tribe and tribalists (who are very important don't get me wrong).....but more about the people who intentionally prey upon the fears already existing within the tribe. This lady in Springfield, MO is suing about masks. A woman mentioned her son has cancer and asked if people would wear masks. The response: It's not my responsibility your son has cancer.

https://twitter.com/AishaS/status/1286743719606128646?s=19

Yep. It's not just a lack of intelligence and common sense. The completely lack of empathy and pure selfishness is just as disturbing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GB Warrior on July 25, 2020, 10:59:27 AM
Yep. It's not just a lack of intelligence and common sense. The completely lack of empathy and pure selfishness is just as disturbing.

The lack of shared identity among Americans is why I don't see how America comes back from this ('this' is broadly construed to the pandemic, racial tensions, this presidency, this political environment).

Incidentally, I think it's part of why other nations have fared better, in addition to competent leadership.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 25, 2020, 11:43:19 AM
'What if I don't comply?' Indiana Republican lawmaker posts a photo of a .45-caliber handgun in response to GOP governor's mask order
https://news.yahoo.com/dont-comply-indiana-republican-lawmaker-165928594.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 25, 2020, 12:10:01 PM
'What if I don't comply?' Indiana Republican lawmaker posts a photo of a .45-caliber handgun in response to GOP governor's mask order
https://news.yahoo.com/dont-comply-indiana-republican-lawmaker-165928594.html

Guy is just the typical gun nut. He is unable to get the rush from blowing someone away, so he try to kill people another way.

He can quote the entire U.S. Constitution: "Blah, Blah, Blah, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, Blah, Blah, Blah".

He should be arrested on terrorism charges.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 25, 2020, 12:15:46 PM
Republicans are already saying they are going to court to stop this. Yes, the pro-lifers are going to court for the right to kill people. Would they be doing that if the order only covered pregnant women? I think not.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 25, 2020, 02:13:09 PM
The lack of shared identity among Americans is why I don't see how America comes back from this ('this' is broadly construed to the pandemic, racial tensions, this presidency, this political environment).

Incidentally, I think it's part of why other nations have fared better, in addition to competent leadership.

Good post, albeit sad.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: BM1090 on July 25, 2020, 08:41:30 PM
Was in Door County for the day, all businesses required masks inside. Makes sense but still was somewhat surprised to see.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mu_hilltopper on July 25, 2020, 08:44:27 PM
The lack of shared identity among Americans is why I don't see how America comes back from this ('this' is broadly construed to the pandemic, racial tensions, this presidency, this political environment).


This is an interesting question to be probed, no doubt.  I think though, that  there is a concept of "shared identity" in the US .. it's just that it's now two identities, split by party, struggling to live in one reality.

I do think the 2H of 2020 will be titled "The Comeuppening."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on July 25, 2020, 09:46:42 PM
Was in Door County for the day, all businesses required masks inside. Makes sense but still was somewhat surprised to see.

Y were you surprised to see that?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 25, 2020, 10:01:41 PM
I do think the 2H of 2020 will be titled "The Comeuppening."

Please expound on this. I'm intrigued.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 25, 2020, 10:01:54 PM
The lack of shared identity among Americans is why I don't see how America comes back from this ('this' is broadly construed to the pandemic, racial tensions, this presidency, this political environment).

Incidentally, I think it's part of why other nations have fared better, in addition to competent leadership.



Agreed. It’s sad, but too many Americans identify with the country, but not the other people in it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: HutchwasClutch on July 25, 2020, 10:55:55 PM
This is an interesting question to be probed, no doubt.  I think though, that  there is a concept of "shared identity" in the US .. it's just that it's now two identities, split by party, struggling to live in one reality.

Well, it’s kind of difficult to find common ground when one of the two major political parties has gone so far off the rails as trying to peddle agendas like letting non violent criminals out of prison, defunding the police, The Green New Deal, Medicare For All, etc., etc.   How can you live in reality with that level of stupid and/or dangerous platforms being pushed?!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: wadesworld on July 25, 2020, 11:03:15 PM
Well, it’s kind of difficult to find common ground when one of the two major political parties has gone so far off the rails as trying to peddle agendas like letting non violent criminals out of prison, defunding the police, The Green New Deal, Medicare For All, etc., etc.   How can you live in reality with that level of stupid and/or dangerous platforms being pushed?!

Ahh yes. Conservatives, the definition of reason and steady. Just look at our president.

Lol.

What’s hilarious is those radical, terrifying, insane, completely impossible, off the rails agendas work in many other parts of the world. But the “greatest nation in the world” can’t figure it out. So instead they’re only whack job ideas that could never be reality.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 25, 2020, 11:18:50 PM
Marshall, MN...couple wears swastika masks to Walmart.

https://m.startribune.com/couple-flaunts-swastika-facemasks-at-marshall-walmart/571909142/
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 25, 2020, 11:31:22 PM
https://www.thelocal.ch/20200715/only-those-with-plastic-visors-were-infected-swiss-government-warns-against-face-shields

Masks > face shields
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 25, 2020, 11:31:32 PM
He sells masks...but...he won't wear one. Calls it the "Scamdemic" and he says mask mandates are Communist. But yes he'll stand there without a mask and sell you masks to make a buck. Amarillo, TX:

https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1287042678757171200?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 08:19:59 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/business/masks-walmart-home-depot-lowes-cvs/index.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on July 26, 2020, 09:25:41 AM
So really we have ceded control to the anti-science selfish people. Because no one can be bothered to tell them ‘no’.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 26, 2020, 09:33:10 AM
Marshall, MN...couple wears swastika masks to Walmart.

https://m.startribune.com/couple-flaunts-swastika-facemasks-at-marshall-walmart/571909142/

Freedom of speech, no?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 09:34:31 AM
If you're referring to the article guru posted, it's understandable.  These companies already have designated minimum wage workers as "essential", now your asking them to remind people to wear masks.    Asking them to enforce that is putting them in the way of both physical harm, and a risk to their health.  In the case of Walmart (and probably most larger stores), the employees are supposed to report non-maskers to their superiors.  I'm sure that gets to store security which is responsible for enforcement.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 26, 2020, 09:38:12 AM
Freedom of speech, no?

I support their right to wear offensive masks.

I also support the right of people to be upset and speak out against it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 26, 2020, 09:45:15 AM
I support their right to wear offensive masks.

I also support the right of people to be upset and speak out against it.

Agree 100%.

This is why the obvious follow-up question when the purported leader of our nation was calling the confederate flag a "freedom of speech" issue was, "How would you feel if they were flying flags with swastikas?" I'd have loved to have heard his answer. And then the follow-up to that would be, "Why do you criticize kneeling ahtletes, the vast majority of whom are Black, for peacefully expressing their freedom of speech? Didn't you say in a national speech that you're 'an ally of all peaceful protesters'? Was that lip service or do you really mean it?"

These companies already have designated minimum wage workers as "essential", now your asking them to remind people to wear masks.    Asking them to enforce that is putting them in the way of both physical harm, and a risk to their health.  In the case of Walmart (and probably most larger stores), the employees are supposed to report non-maskers to their superiors.  I'm sure that gets to store security which is responsible for enforcement.

Agree 100%.

A shelf-stocker or cashier at Walmart or Target or Lowes or Kroger didn't sign up to be an enforcer. I don't want some 17-year-old kid or some 70-year-old woman (or anybody in between) to get seriously hurt or killed because he or she confronted a selfish, law-breaking mouth-breather. Report it to a supervisor, who then can call in those who are paid to enforce store rules and/or state laws.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 10:15:23 AM
Hm, looking for opinions here...lately folks have been latching onto the idea that masks with ventilators are bad (including my workplace).  Here's an example:

https://healthnewshub.org/health-news-hub/top-news/do-not-use-a-mask-with-a-filtered-valve-it-can-spread-covid-19/

Now, I understand that the ventilator allows "unfiltered" air out, and that *could* be bad.  But a cloth mask also allows a lot of unfiltered air out - and that's why they're more comfortable.  But - this should  only matter if the virus is airborne - correct?  Both the cloth mask, and ventilated 95 stop a majority of "droplets" which is their purpose. 

I mentioned in another thread, I have a couple ventilated N95's, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by wearing them.  Am I being jerk? 

I feel like this guidance is going overboard, and the only risk of using a ventilated mask (or cloth mask) is in "sterile" environments.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: BM1090 on July 26, 2020, 10:24:35 AM
Y were you surprised to see that?

Because people in every city I've been to in Wisconsin outside of Milwaukee have been blatantly disregarding mask recommendations.

Anecdotal but that's been my experience.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mu_hilltopper on July 26, 2020, 10:26:03 AM
Now, I understand that the ventilator allows "unfiltered" air out, and that *could* be bad.  But a cloth mask also allows a lot of unfiltered air out - and that's why they're more comfortable.  But - this should  only matter if the virus is airborne - correct?  Both the cloth mask, and ventilated 95 stop a majority of "droplets" which is their purpose. 


Whoa, thanks for posting that, I had no idea.   Back in February, I bought some of these on eBay, I thought they were the gold standard. 

That being said .. only *some* of your exhalation is going through the valve.  My glasses still fog up, meaning air is escaping upwards .. frankly, I wasn't even sure the valve was working at all as you can feel the mask bulge out and leak as you exhale. .. Just like a non-vented mask would do.

Seemed more like a marketing gimmick, frankly.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 10:37:52 AM
Hm, looking for opinions here...lately folks have been latching onto the idea that masks with ventilators are bad (including my workplace).  Here's an example:

https://healthnewshub.org/health-news-hub/top-news/do-not-use-a-mask-with-a-filtered-valve-it-can-spread-covid-19/

Now, I understand that the ventilator allows "unfiltered" air out, and that *could* be bad.  But a cloth mask also allows a lot of unfiltered air out - and that's why they're more comfortable.  But - this should  only matter if the virus is airborne - correct?  Both the cloth mask, and ventilated 95 stop a majority of "droplets" which is their purpose. 

I mentioned in another thread, I have a couple ventilated N95's, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by wearing them.  Am I being jerk? 

I feel like this guidance is going overboard, and the only risk of using a ventilated mask (or cloth mask) is in "sterile" environments.

I think you come to a conclusion on this based on why are you wearing a mask.  If you believe masks are there to lower your risk You fall one way.  If you are trying to stop collective spread, you fall elsewhere.  Or of course you just didn’t know. 

I will tell you we had a friend go into a health clinic and they would not allow that mask for the reason in the article.  Gave her a new surgical mask instead. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GB Warrior on July 26, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
If you're referring to the article guru posted, it's understandable.  These companies already have designated minimum wage workers as "essential", now your asking them to remind people to wear masks.    Asking them to enforce that is putting them in the way of both physical harm, and a risk to their health.  In the case of Walmart (and probably most larger stores), the employees are supposed to report non-maskers to their superiors.  I'm sure that gets to store security which is responsible for enforcement.

This is why national, state, or municipal policy is so important in this context. They can be the unseen bad guy. 'I'm sorry, but the state is telling me you can't come in here without a mask', is a different confrontation.

Also, if anyone wants to talk about what 'freedom' means in the context of a civilized citizens, it's not getting to make choices that deny others' right to make my own. Just a harrowing read.
https://nyti.ms/3g1o1CP (https://nyti.ms/3g1o1CP)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 10:40:32 AM
Agree 100%.

This is why the obvious follow-up question when the purported leader of our nation was calling the confederate flag a "freedom of speech" issue was, "How would you feel if they were flying flags with swastikas?" I'd have loved to have heard his answer. And then the follow-up to that would be, "Why do you criticize kneeling ahtletes, the vast majority of whom are Black, for peacefully expressing their freedom of speech? Didn't you say in a national speech that you're 'an ally of all peaceful protesters'? Was that lip service or do you really mean it?"

Agree 100%.



A shelf-stocker or cashier at Walmart or Target or Lowes or Kroger didn't sign up to be an enforcer. I don't want some 17-year-old kid or some 70-year-old woman (or anybody in between) to get seriously hurt or killed because he or she confronted a selfish, law-breaking mouth-breather. Report it to a supervisor, who then can call in those who are paid to enforce store rules and/or state laws.

Honest question, not looking for an argument or anything like that, do you believe there are other( more effective) ways to "protest" than kneeling during a national anthem?? Or is that the only option they have to get their point across??
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 10:46:09 AM
This is why national, state, or municipal policy is so important in this context. They can be the unseen bad guy. 'I'm sorry, but the state is telling me you can't come in here without a mask', is a different confrontation.

Also, if anyone wants to talk about what 'freedom' means in the context of a civilized citizens, it's not getting to make choices that deny others' right to make my own. Just a harrowing read.
https://nyti.ms/3g1o1CP (https://nyti.ms/3g1o1CP)

I will read the article.  I would say though we make these choices everyday as a society.  No shirt, no shoes, no service.  Vaccines for entry into elementary schools.  Education requirements to be a certified professional.  Also businesses are allowed to set standards as long as they are higher than the minimum required by law.  That is their right. 

Everything doesn’t need to become Armageddon or the last stand.  Sometimes things that make sense for most become what makes sense for all. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 10:59:04 AM
Because people in every city I've been to in Wisconsin outside of Milwaukee have been blatantly disregarding mask recommendations.

Anecdotal but that's been my experience.

Another question which again, I am not looking to start an argument by any means, just want your opinion..Using the CDC #'s we see that Milwaukee county has 37.4% of the States cases a total of 17,537 cases and 422 deaths(.02%). The next closest is Dane county with 8% of the total cases statewide(3732 total) and 33 deaths (.008%). There are only 8 counties in the entire state that have over 1,000 cases, and those same 8 are the only ones with 20+ deaths. In fact you see the drop off in death total from #1 Milwaukee county(422), to the next closest being Dane county(33), that's pretty stark.

So my question is, isn't it reasonable to assume(based on the data/science) that in a vast majority of counties in Wisconsin, the cases/deaths are so low per 100,000, that masks really won't accomplish much anyway?? Point being, the spread doesn't seem to be terrible to begin with, nor is the death count(though 1 is too many), so in studying the data it would appear that as a whole Wisconsin hasn't been terrible to begin with since covid started, are masks serving any purpose in some areas or is it more "out of abundance of caution"??
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on July 26, 2020, 11:06:01 AM
Another question which again, I am not looking to start an argument by any means, just want your opinion..Using the CDC #'s we see that Milwaukee county has 37.4% of the States cases a total of 17,537 cases and 422 deaths(.02%). The next closest is Dane county with 8% of the total cases statewide(3732 total) and 33 deaths (.008%). There are only 8 counties in the entire state that have over 1,000 cases, and those same 8 are the only ones with 20+ deaths. In fact you see the drop off in death total from #1 Milwaukee county(422), to the next closest being Dane county(33), that's pretty stark.

So my question is, isn't it reasonable to assume(based on the data/science) that in a vast majority of counties in Wisconsin, the cases/deaths are so low per 100,000, that masks really won't accomplish much anyway?? Point being, the spread doesn't seem to be terrible to begin with, nor is the death count(though 1 is too many), so in studying the data it would appear that as a whole Wisconsin hasn't been terrible to begin with since covid started, are masks serving any purpose in some areas or is it more "out of abundance of caution"??

Maybe it's an abundance of caution, but the way I see it is that it's not asking much of society to demand mask compliance. It's a mask. It's not a space suit. It is not that hard to wear one when you're outside, so what possible reason could one have to not do it?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 11:13:18 AM
Guru - Masks are not going to save any one person.  The issue with this thing is not any-ONE.  It is solely an issue of collective spread.  This issue is compounded by the fact that you are contagious before you feel sick - if you feel sick at all. 

Said a different way, I dont care if you get it, but I do care that you will likely infect three people who then infect three people, etc.

So, based on what we now know, it is not reasonable to think that you shouldn't wear a mask if you are going to be in contact with people you are not podding with indoors or close proximity for long periods of time.  If you are in a rural area, you are probably lower risk of becoming a vector for spread, but when the virus comes, like it has in many rural counties, you will extend the lifetime of the epidemic.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on July 26, 2020, 11:15:12 AM
I bet most car wrecks and drunk driving incidents take place in Milwaukee county.
Would it make sense to only enforce dui and seat belt laws in SE Wisconsin?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on July 26, 2020, 11:16:31 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/business/masks-walmart-home-depot-lowes-cvs/index.html

To be fair...a lot of you get your news from CNN, and I just wish you'd call them what they are

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/exposecnnpart1/

Ironic, no?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 11:40:14 AM
Guru - Masks are not going to save any one person.  The issue with this thing is not any-ONE.  It is solely an issue of collective spread.  This issue is compounded by the fact that you are contagious before you feel sick - if you feel sick at all. 

Said a different way, I dont care if you get it, but I do care that you will likely infect three people who then infect three people, etc.

So, based on what we now know, it is not reasonable to think that you shouldn't wear a mask if you are going to be in contact with people you are not podding with indoors or close proximity for long periods of time.  If you are in a rural area, you are probably lower risk of becoming a vector for spread, but when the virus comes, like it has in many rural counties, you will extend the lifetime of the epidemic.

If you can properly social distance should masks still be a necessity?? I understand both have their place, but I guess I've never heard it really stated that IF it were too be one or the other(ie masks or social distancing), what is MORE effective?? I hear people talk about wearing masks with the caveat "if you can't properly social distance", so if you can, a mask isn't necessarily needed/required??
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 11:46:05 AM
I think you come to a conclusion on this based on why are you wearing a mask.  If you believe masks are there to lower your risk You fall one way.  If you are trying to stop collective spread, you fall elsewhere.  Or of course you just didn’t know. 

I will tell you we had a friend go into a health clinic and they would not allow that mask for the reason in the article.  Gave her a new surgical mask instead.

Right, and I knew some unfiltered air was getting out, but like I said - it's the same with a surgical mask.  Scientifically - I don't see the difference, and I'd be interested to see a study on "droplet release" from both kinds of masks.

I will be nice and comply with my work and any other requirements (I mostly wear cloth there anyway - the breath much easier!  Hah.).  But I'm not sure the science is adding up on this one.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 11:49:51 AM
If you can properly social distance should masks still be a necessity?? I understand both have their place, but I guess I've never heard it really stated that IF it were too be one or the other(ie masks or social distancing), what is MORE effective?? I hear people talk about wearing masks with the caveat "if you can't properly social distance", so if you can, a mask isn't necessarily needed/required??

I will preface this by saying I am no expert, but all of this can be found on the internet with multiple sources and opinions.  In fact i bet you can find someone that says anything you want, but here is my takeaway.

Depends on location.  Outdoors you can probably find many locations where you can socially distance easily.  Indoors not conclusive--six feet may not a good rule of thumb--air quality matters, etc.  Also time and amount matters.  So there are people studying whether or masks help reduce severity of illness if you do get exposure (remember masks arent perfect, just a significant risk reducer). 

This doesnt have to be hard.  Bring a mask, wear a mask, if you are by yourself and you encounter someone, put your mask on. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 26, 2020, 11:52:35 AM
Right, and I knew some unfiltered air was getting out, but like I said - it's the same with a surgical mask.  Scientifically - I don't see the difference, and I'd be interested to see a study on "droplet release" from both kinds of masks.

I will be nice and comply with my work and any other requirements (I mostly wear cloth there anyway - the breath much easier!  Hah.).  But I'm not sure the science is adding up on this one.

I haven't seen it either, only the study that did uncovered, single ply cloth, cloth surgical, surgical and non-valve N95.  What I can tell you is from a containment standpoint a cloth mask, N95 and two ply cloth contained a ton (not all).  I can imagine a sneeze or cough shooting through the valve.  It would be interesting to see what it looked like with talking...as that is the majority that we are likely trying to catch.

Hey maybe you can get a tiny mask for your valve  :)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 26, 2020, 12:01:16 PM
Because people in every city I've been to in Wisconsin outside of Milwaukee have been blatantly disregarding mask recommendations.

Anecdotal but that's been my experience.

Absolutely true. Racine, Kenosha, Baraboo, Dells, reedsburg - majority of people are not wearing mass except in some stores.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 26, 2020, 12:57:15 PM
Hm, looking for opinions here...lately folks have been latching onto the idea that masks with ventilators are bad (including my workplace).  Here's an example:

https://healthnewshub.org/health-news-hub/top-news/do-not-use-a-mask-with-a-filtered-valve-it-can-spread-covid-19/

Now, I understand that the ventilator allows "unfiltered" air out, and that *could* be bad.  But a cloth mask also allows a lot of unfiltered air out - and that's why they're more comfortable.  But - this should  only matter if the virus is airborne - correct?  Both the cloth mask, and ventilated 95 stop a majority of "droplets" which is their purpose. 

I mentioned in another thread, I have a couple ventilated N95's, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by wearing them.  Am I being jerk? 

I feel like this guidance is going overboard, and the only risk of using a ventilated mask (or cloth mask) is in "sterile" environments.

valve or vents are bad.  It isn't overboard.  Analogous to having your fly open and your dick out and still saying you're wearing pants.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 01:12:17 PM
Analogous to having your fly open and your dick out and still saying you're wearing pants.

Uh, that's not Analogous, that it isn't very similar and doesn't clarify the science.  But I'll accept your opinion that it's bad :)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 01:13:20 PM
Would you do this??


https://www.theblaze.com/news/miami-mayor-wear-face-masks-home
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 26, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
So my question is, isn't it reasonable to assume(based on the data/science) that in a vast majority of counties in Wisconsin, the cases/deaths are so low per 100,000, that masks really won't accomplish much anyway??
No. The U.S. is still suffering through one, long, near-continuous outbreak because we handled it just as you are suggesting. If we had had a consistent, uniformly enforced shutdown across the country we'd be where virtually every other western country is in terms of the virus. Instead, we did the opposite.

Places like Texas, Arizona, and Florida, amongst others, were making the same argument that you are. 'New York and New Jersey, and Washington have it, but we don't, so why should we shut down, why should we wear masks, why should we social distance?'  Because people travel. And because if you wait until you have it it is too late.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 26, 2020, 01:39:21 PM
Honest question, not looking for an argument or anything like that, do you believe there are other( more effective) ways to "protest" than kneeling during a national anthem?? Or is that the only option they have to get their point across??

The answer is both, or, all of the above.

One can easily say, peacefully kneeling during a National Anthem has brought quite a bit of attention to the topic, which is the point.

A better question is do we need to play National Anthems every day at sporting events. And at least for me, that answer is no.

This, one of many examples, is what the legendary baseball player Bob Gibson said about it this weekend.

https://twitter.com/Ben_Fred/status/1287049116128870407?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 01:45:26 PM
No. The U.S. is still suffering through one, long, near-continuous outbreak because we handled it just as you are suggesting. If we had had a consistent, uniformly enforced shutdown across the country we'd be where virtually every other western country is in terms of the virus. Instead, we did the opposite.

Places like Texas, Arizona, and Florida, amongst others, were making the same argument that you are. 'New York and New Jersey, and Washington have it, but we don't, so why should we shut down, why should we wear masks, why should we social distance?'  Because people travel. And because if you wait until you have it it is too late.

Honest question for you, and really anyone else that cares to answer...Okay I understand a vast majority of people think how this was handled was completely bungled by bad orange man. Fair enough. My question for you is, and please be honest, were you satisfied/pleased with how Barry and Biden handled H1N1??
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 26, 2020, 01:59:23 PM
Honest question for you, and really anyone else that cares to answer...Okay I understand a vast majority of people think how this was handled was completely bungled by bad orange man. Fair enough. My question for you is, and please be honest, were you satisfied/pleased with how Barry and Biden handled H1N1??
Sure
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 26, 2020, 01:59:38 PM
Made fighting it a federal and national priority.  12,000 died from it.   


No organized effort at the federal level.  140,000 dead in 6 months with no end in sight.


One is a lamentable tragedy, but America eventually stopped it.


One is a a completed dereliction of duty and failure of leadership.


I'm not saying which, as that would be political.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 02:17:15 PM
Made fighting it a federal and national priority.  12,000 died from it.   


No organized effort at the federal level.  140,000 dead in 6 months with no end in sight.


One is a lamentable tragedy, but America eventually stopped it.


One is a a completed dereliction of duty and failure of leadership.


I'm not saying which, as that would be political.

Okay, I'm glad you and Tony responded...the reason i asked that is because...https://www.theblaze.com/news/ready-top-biden-aide-admits-botched-response-to-swine-flu-just-luck-it-wasnt-mass-casualty-event

Ron Klain, who served as chief of staff to Biden before being appointed to serve as President Barack Obama's "Ebola Czar," said at the National Press Club in 2019:

    I was in the White House in 2009 and 2010, and I was working for Vice President Biden. I wasn't involved directly in the H1N1 response, but I lived through it as a White House staffer, and what I would say about it is: A bunch of really great, really talented people were working on it and we did every possible thing wrong.

Klain continued, "Sixty million Americans got H1N1 in that period of time, and it's just purely a fortuity that this isn't one of the great mass casualty events in American history."

He added, "It had nothing to do with us doing anything right. It just had to do with luck."

As TheBlaze pointed out last week, Biden has been highly critical of President Donald Trump's handling of the coronavirus. But the Obama administration was exposed in 2009 by then-CBS News reporter Sharyl Attkisson for shutting down H1N1 testing.

"The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking was," Attkisson wrote, "why waste resources testing for H1N1 flue when the government has already confirmed there's an epidemic?"

Maybe most importantly, because I know most people have accused bad orange man of lying when he says the cupboards were bare:

Townhall further noted that H1N1 depleted America's stockpile of PPE supplies, and that Obama failed to refill it. The outlet cited a Los Angeles Times report that stated:

    After the swine flu epidemic in 2009, a safety-equipment industry association and a federally sponsored task force both recommended that depleted supplies of N95 respirator masks, which filter out airborne particles, be replenished by the stockpile, which is maintained by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

    That didn't happen, according to Charles Johnson, president of the International Safety Equipment Assn.
    The stockpile drew down about 100 million masks during the 2009 epidemic, Johnson said.

    "Our association is unaware of any major effort to restore the stockpile to cover that drawdown," he said.


Huh...Now I'm sure the Barry/Biden truthers will say this is a nothing burger(like they do with any facts you present them), but this was a Biden staffer. So maybe, just maybe people's flat out HATE for the POTUS makes them see things that aren't actually there?? Or their love for another POTUS makes them want to/blind them to the simple realization that you can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 02:18:08 PM
were you satisfied/pleased with how Barry and Biden handled H1N1??

This isn't the H1N1 board.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 26, 2020, 02:25:28 PM
Okay, I'm glad you and Tony responded...the reason i asked that is because...https://www.theblaze.com/news/ready-top-biden-aide-admits-botched-response-to-swine-flu-just-luck-it-wasnt-mass-casualty-event

Ron Klain, who served as chief of staff to Biden before being appointed to serve as President Barack Obama's "Ebola Czar," said at the National Press Club in 2019:

    I was in the White House in 2009 and 2010, and I was working for Vice President Biden. I wasn't involved directly in the H1N1 response, but I lived through it as a White House staffer, and what I would say about it is: A bunch of really great, really talented people were working on it and we did every possible thing wrong.

Klain continued, "Sixty million Americans got H1N1 in that period of time, and it's just purely a fortuity that this isn't one of the great mass casualty events in American history."

He added, "It had nothing to do with us doing anything right. It just had to do with luck."

As TheBlaze pointed out last week, Biden has been highly critical of President Donald Trump's handling of the coronavirus. But the Obama administration was exposed in 2009 by then-CBS News reporter Sharyl Attkisson for shutting down H1N1 testing.

"The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking was," Attkisson wrote, "why waste resources testing for H1N1 flue when the government has already confirmed there's an epidemic?"

Maybe most importantly, because I know most people have accused bad orange man of lying when he says the cupboards were bare:

Townhall further noted that H1N1 depleted America's stockpile of PPE supplies, and that Obama failed to refill it. The outlet cited a Los Angeles Times report that stated:

    After the swine flu epidemic in 2009, a safety-equipment industry association and a federally sponsored task force both recommended that depleted supplies of N95 respirator masks, which filter out airborne particles, be replenished by the stockpile, which is maintained by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

    That didn't happen, according to Charles Johnson, president of the International Safety Equipment Assn.
    The stockpile drew down about 100 million masks during the 2009 epidemic, Johnson said.

    "Our association is unaware of any major effort to restore the stockpile to cover that drawdown," he said.


Huh...Now I'm sure the Barry/Biden truthers will say this is a nothing burger(like they do with any facts you present them), but this was a Biden staffer. So maybe, just maybe people's flat out HATE for the POTUS makes them see things that aren't actually there?? Or their love for another POTUS makes them want to/blind them to the simple realization that you can't have it both ways.

The Blaze?   ::)  ;D
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 26, 2020, 02:28:34 PM
Sometimes, the answer is in the question.   Or in this case, the source.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on July 26, 2020, 02:52:11 PM
Ironic, no?

Ah, Guru was citing Project Veritas so none of this was serious at any point, was it?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 26, 2020, 02:54:23 PM
Veritas and The Blaze.  Both paragons of unbiased reporting.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 26, 2020, 03:03:20 PM
Veritas and The Blaze.  Both paragons of unbiased reporting.

Anyone using Project Veritas as a source isn’t to be taken seriously
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 03:05:29 PM
The Blaze?   ::)  ;D

LMAO knew this was coming...this is EXACTLY how any of you radical lefts respond to anything when presented with facts you simply don't like. Or as Biden said "we use truth over facts"  ?-(

But...maybe just maybe(doubtful) this will be enough for you..

Maybe an actual youtube video is proof enough?? Nah...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POX9FtQF0pY

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 26, 2020, 03:22:05 PM
It is text over a still photo.  Do Michael Cohen or John Bolton carry weight with you?

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/04/joe-biden-contain-h1n1-virus-232992



So, I did a little google search and came up with this story that references your favorite quote.     In it, the person says his quote refers to being able to get enough of the vaccine to meet public demand.       

Context matters.     

Oh, and by the way, the above article also points out mistakes that Biden and the Obama administration made.      A shame that their mistakes couldn't be learned from, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 26, 2020, 03:28:30 PM
LMAO knew this was coming...this is EXACTLY how any of you radical lefts respond to anything when presented with facts you simply don't like. Or as Biden said "we use truth over facts"  ?-(

But...maybe just maybe(doubtful) this will be enough for you..

Maybe an actual youtube video is proof enough?? Nah...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POX9FtQF0pY

*sighs*
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 26, 2020, 03:31:40 PM
LMAO knew this was coming...this is EXACTLY how any of you radical lefts respond to anything when presented with facts you simply don't like. Or as Biden said "we use truth over facts"  ?-(

But...maybe just maybe(doubtful) this will be enough for you..

Maybe an actual youtube video is proof enough?? Nah...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POX9FtQF0pY

Is every person that thinks Trump sucks part of the "radical left", guru?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 26, 2020, 04:14:01 PM
Ron Klain, who served as chief of staff to Biden before being appointed to serve as President Barack Obama's "Ebola Czar," said at the National Press Club in 2019:
To add to what Tower posted, here is the full quote:
"Klain now says his comments, which were made at a biosecurity summit, referred solely to the administration’s difficulties in producing enough of an H1N1 vaccine to meet public demand. The Obama team, he says, quickly adapted to the situation, making choices that were starkly different from those the Trump administration would make 11 years later, such as quickly distributing emergency equipment from the federal stockpile, deferring to public health experts and having them take the lead on messaging."

So the question now is, guru, since you now know The Blaze lied to you by taking a quote out of context, does it change your mind? Because earlier you were complaining about people not accepting facts that didn't match what they wanted to believe...

If you are actually open to learning the facts, here is a NY Times article that points out the missteps and mistakes the Obama administration made in fighting H1N1. You'll note that despite the mistakes, the experts call the overall response "at least a B-plus" and "excellent".
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/02/health/02flu.html

Townhall further noted that H1N1 depleted America's stockpile of PPE supplies, and that Obama failed to refill it. The outlet cited a Los Angeles Times report that stated:

    After the swine flu epidemic in 2009, a safety-equipment industry association and a federally sponsored task force both recommended that depleted supplies of N95 respirator masks, which filter out airborne particles, be replenished by the stockpile, which is maintained by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

Well this is partially true at least. It's true that a lot of the PPE was used up fighting swine flu and other outbreaks and never replaced, but the reason it wasn't replaced is a little more complex than the Obama administration saying, "Ahhhh, F it, we don't need those."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/
"Again according to NIH, the stockpile's resources were also used during hurricanes Alex, Irene, Isaac and Sandy. Flooding in 2010 in North Dakota also called for stockpile funds to be deployed. The 2014 outbreaks of the ebola virus and botulism, as well as the 2016 outbreak of the zika virus, continued to significantly tax the stockpile with no serious effort from the Obama administration to replenish the fund.

ProPublica reported on April 3 that congressional budget battles in the early years of the Obama administration contributed to stockpile shortages. But the article notes available funds were used not to replenish masks: "With limited resources, officials in charge of the stockpile tend to focus on buying lifesaving drugs from small biotechnology firms that would, in the absence of a government buyer, have no other market for their products, experts said. Masks and other protective equipment are in normal times widely available and thus may not have been prioritized for purchase, they said."

But if you are going to blame Obama for not replacing the stockpile, shouldn't Trump also be blamed for not replacing it in over three years as President?

The thing that is really amazing, however, is Trump trying to point the finger at Obama for not leaving him any COVID-19 tests.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 26, 2020, 07:08:51 PM
Veritas and The Blaze.  Both paragons of unbiased reporting.

Glen Beck.  Have met him and knew his current wife at one time.  What a D-bag.
 And the story of how they met is pure Glen Beck
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on July 26, 2020, 08:10:02 PM
Veritas and The Blaze.  Both paragons of unbiased reporting.

No different than MSDNC, CNN, the NYT or Wapo, right?? Prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 26, 2020, 08:32:53 PM
No different than MSDNC, CNN, the NYT or Wapo, right?? Prove me wrong.

A 6 year old could prove you wrong.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 26, 2020, 08:34:02 PM
The majority of republicans support wearing masks.

Most people who are against masks are republicans.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 08:38:10 PM
No different than MSDNC, CNN, the NYT or Wapo, right?? Prove me wrong.

Blaze, clearly right. 
MSNBC clearly left. 
CNN, NYT, Washington Post moderate left.

So yes, different.

(https://www.allsides.com/sites/default/files/AllSidesMediaBiasChart-Version2.jpg)

Oh, and for the record for everyone, if politics apply to the current topic -fine.  But we've all clearly veered from that path.

Now back to the masks...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 26, 2020, 08:46:26 PM
No different than MSDNC, CNN, the NYT or Wapo, right?? Prove me wrong.
This is what you choose to fixate on?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 09:05:42 PM
So trying to dig into my question about valves.  I found a video (from a UW Madison professor nonetheless).  But before you watch, I'll give you some of my quick thoughts:

- It's not entirely clear what the "fog" represents.  On the first demo they say the fog and cough sound were "added".
- The fancy laser seems to only be used with no mask, and cloth mask with nose wire.
- It's clear that cloth with wire is the best solution.
- vented exhausts down
- mask without wire exhausts up
- my contention, is that vented is approximately as effective as mask without wire
- and since we still believe this is droplet transmission, both of those probably still are fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwNU4jgAhvY
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: HutchwasClutch on July 26, 2020, 09:59:32 PM
Blaze, clearly right. 
MSNBC clearly left. 
CNN, NYT, Washington Post moderate left.

So yes, different.

(https://www.allsides.com/sites/default/files/AllSidesMediaBiasChart-Version2.jpg)

Oh, and for the record for everyone, if politics apply to the current topic -fine.  But we've all clearly veered from that path.

Now back to the masks...

NPR is a center news organization?!? 😂😂
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: HutchwasClutch on July 26, 2020, 10:02:54 PM
Blaze, clearly right. 
MSNBC clearly left. 
CNN, NYT, Washington Post moderate left.

So yes, different.

(https://www.allsides.com/sites/default/files/AllSidesMediaBiasChart-Version2.jpg)

Oh, and for the record for everyone, if politics apply to the current topic -fine.  But we've all clearly veered from that path.

Now back to the masks...

AP news and USA Today are almost as laughable calling both center as NPR.  Not quite as ridiculous, pretty close though.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 26, 2020, 10:19:36 PM
AP news and USA Today are almost as laughable calling both center as NPR.  Not quite as ridiculous, pretty close though.

You're right, I am usually upset when my worldview is challenged as well.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on July 26, 2020, 10:24:37 PM
NPR is a center news organization?!? 😂😂

It says NPR news. NPR opinion, which makes up much of their programming, is correctly lean left. I could buy it being fully Left tho
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: HutchwasClutch on July 26, 2020, 10:38:42 PM
It says NPR news. NPR opinion, which makes up much of their programming, is correctly lean left. I could buy it being fully Left tho

Both are full left.  And I understood the chart was considering their news center.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 26, 2020, 10:56:02 PM
Both are full left.  And I understood the chart was considering their news center.

The chart has separate labels for "news" and for "opinion".

Now back to masks please...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: HutchwasClutch on July 26, 2020, 11:09:10 PM
The chart has separate labels for "news" and for "opinion".

Now back to masks please...

You and Wags have now both clarified something I wasn’t confused on in the first place. But thanks anyway 🙄
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 27, 2020, 06:41:34 AM
You and Wags have now both clarified something I wasn’t confused on in the first place. But thanks anyway 🙄


Well then I guess you're just wrong. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on August 02, 2020, 10:59:22 PM
Oshkosh, Wisconsin, Sand Bar Bash:

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1290117595161452544?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 02, 2020, 11:28:10 PM
Oshkosh, Wisconsin, Sand Bar Bash:

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1290117595161452544?s=19

Sickening. This is the reason this is going to get worse.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 02, 2020, 11:36:46 PM
Oshkosh, Wisconsin, Sand Bar Bash:

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1290117595161452544?s=19

I think the most disgusting part is how much of a sausage fest that is.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2020, 09:23:26 AM
I think the most disgusting part is how much of a sausage fest that is.

Honestly thought it was scenes from Fire Island out east.

Though, FWIW, this is similar to the situation in the Ozarks that thankfully didn’t result in any substantial spread
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MarquetteDano on August 03, 2020, 09:46:07 AM
AP news and USA Today are almost as laughable calling both center as NPR.  Not quite as ridiculous, pretty close though.

The Economist as left is unbelievable.  Only one country in the world would it be considered left... the United States.  The other 95% of the world it would be considered centrist.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 03, 2020, 10:11:00 AM
The Economist as left is unbelievable.  Only one country in the world would it be considered left... the United States.  The other 95% of the world it would be considered centrist.

I tend to think that if one believes 'everything' is 'left/right' or 'biased', it says more about that person than anything else. 

I don't know about others, but I have no issues finding a broad range of media and multiple sources to be informed on any relevant topic in the US. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 03, 2020, 04:21:20 PM
https://wbbm780.radio.com/articles/annual-boat-party-goes-ahead-in-east-peoria-despite-covid-19

Not just Wisconsin and Michigan.
Masks? Masks? I don’t need no stinking  I want to party!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on August 03, 2020, 05:47:23 PM
I was on a plane today and the millenials sitting across from me slipped their masks down under their noses whenever the flight attendants weren't in the cabin. What a bunch of as$$holes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on August 04, 2020, 10:04:02 AM
"How profit and incompetence delayed N95 masks while people died at the VA"

"A contractor with zero experience received a $34.5 million contract to supply the VA with masks and other medical supplies. He flew around the country on a private jet trying to track everything down. He ultimately dis not deliver a single mask to the VA"

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-profit-and-incompetence-delayed-n95-masks-while-people-died-at-the-va/amp?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 04, 2020, 10:45:58 AM
"How profit and incompetence delayed N95 masks while people died at the VA"

"A contractor with zero experience received a $34.5 million contract to supply the VA with masks and other medical supplies. He flew around the country on a private jet trying to track everything down. He ultimately dis not deliver a single mask to the VA"

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-profit-and-incompetence-delayed-n95-masks-while-people-died-at-the-va/amp?__twitter_impression=true


I hope no one is surprised by this.

Whether it is open corruption or explicitly choosing to let people in blue states die, the monster in the WH has been completely unmasked (sorry, bad pun).

We shut down the economy for nothing. We squandered everything for lack of any leadership from POTUS or the Veep. When Biden takes over in January, he is going to have to go back to step 1. The difference is that trump was at step 1 with 15 cases. Biden will be at step 1 with hundreds of thousands of cases.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 04, 2020, 11:55:54 AM

I hope no one is surprised by this.

Whether it is open corruption or explicitly choosing to let people in blue states die, the monster in the WH has been completely unmasked (sorry, bad pun).

We shut down the economy for nothing. We squandered everything for lack of any leadership from POTUS or the Veep. When Biden takes over in January, he is going to have to go back to step 1. The difference is that trump was at step 1 with 15 cases. Biden will be at step 1 with hundreds of thousands of cases.
Unfortunately in January you will have 25% of the population that will actively try to undermine the efforts to improve the situation.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 04, 2020, 12:07:14 PM
"How profit and incompetence delayed N95 masks while people died at the VA"

"A contractor with zero experience received a $34.5 million contract to supply the VA with masks and other medical supplies. He flew around the country on a private jet trying to track everything down. He ultimately dis not deliver a single mask to the VA"

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-profit-and-incompetence-delayed-n95-masks-while-people-died-at-the-va/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Yay capitalism!

How Profit and Incompetence Delayed N95 Masks While People Died at the VA
https://www.propublica.org/article/how-profit-and-incompetence-delayed-n95-masks-while-people-died-at-the-va/
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 04, 2020, 01:28:51 PM
Unfortunately in January you will have 25% of the population that will actively try to undermine the efforts to improve the situation.

True. But we will have leaders who won’t flippantly say “it is what it is” when reminded how many people have died.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on August 04, 2020, 03:33:20 PM
Yay capitalism!

How Profit and Incompetence Delayed N95 Masks While People Died at the VA
https://www.propublica.org/article/how-profit-and-incompetence-delayed-n95-masks-while-people-died-at-the-va/

I don't believe there is anything at all wrong with capitalism.

But we don't have capitalism in this country.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 06, 2020, 08:18:39 AM
Back to masks... I received my Marquette masks for my 'donation' yesterday.

They're kind of crummy.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 06, 2020, 08:38:14 AM
Probably do two crummy donation, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 06, 2020, 04:07:28 PM
Back to masks... I received my Marquette masks for my 'donation' yesterday.

They're kind of crummy.  Oh well.

Agreed. But I'm not disappointed I donated anyway.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on August 08, 2020, 09:26:49 AM
Glow and I are in Las Vegas. They are taking masking very seriously. I would say compliance is close to 100%.

No one is allowed to sit at an actual bar. There is only table service. There was one lounge open at the Golden Nugget and we were asked to pull our masks up in between sips of our drink.

Not surprisingly, it is a ghost town.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 08, 2020, 10:33:01 PM
In Georgia after road tripping through northern Florida. Minimal mask wearing. Those that are usually have them below the nose.
The park ranger at a Fl state park entrance didn’t have a mask. Neither did the very large group of 20 something year olds at the park.
Getting take out, the people preparing the food had their masks under their chin here in Georgia. The person giving us the food was sans mask.
Glad to be in an isolated cabin for the next week.

ETA: Interestingly enough, the place we saw the most mask wearing was the University of Florida.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 08, 2020, 11:31:35 PM
Fall & winter are gonna be bad
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 09, 2020, 08:05:58 AM
Dr. Murphy on the WGN morning news said that wearing the mask below the nose destroys 80% of its effectiveness.
It is disheartening to read about all the masklessness. I fear we will never get out from under.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 09, 2020, 10:52:30 AM
Georgia governor bans cities from ordering people to wear face masks
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-governor-brian-kemp-bans-city-face-mask-orders-coronavirus-pandemic/


Georgia's Governor Brian Kemp is explicitly banning Georgia's cities and counties from ordering people to wear masks in public places. He voided orders on Wednesday that at least 15 local governments across the state had adopted even though Kemp had earlier said cities and counties had no power to order masks during the coronavirus pandemic.

Kemp's new order also bans local governments from requiring masks on public property, which void requirements that some governments have imposed for citizens to wear masks inside city and county buildings.

Moron.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 09, 2020, 01:28:24 PM
Georgia governor bans cities from ordering people to wear face masks
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-governor-brian-kemp-bans-city-face-mask-orders-coronavirus-pandemic/


Georgia's Governor Brian Kemp is explicitly banning Georgia's cities and counties from ordering people to wear masks in public places. He voided orders on Wednesday that at least 15 local governments across the state had adopted even though Kemp had earlier said cities and counties had no power to order masks during the coronavirus pandemic.

Kemp's new order also bans local governments from requiring masks on public property, which void requirements that some governments have imposed for citizens to wear masks inside city and county buildings.

Moron.

I can think of another 'm" word. Redrum! Redrum!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 10, 2020, 09:58:09 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/neck-gaiters-may-actually-increase-covid-19-transmission-study-finds-183034882.html

Neck gaiters are actually worse than useless.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 11, 2020, 12:10:17 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/neck-gaiters-may-actually-increase-covid-19-transmission-study-finds-183034882.html

Neck gaiters are actually worse than useless.

Thank you for posting this!  It actually helps answer my "valved 95" question I had asked earlier...

Hm, looking for opinions here...lately folks have been latching onto the idea that masks with ventilators are bad (including my workplace).  Here's an example:

https://healthnewshub.org/health-news-hub/top-news/do-not-use-a-mask-with-a-filtered-valve-it-can-spread-covid-19/

Now, I understand that the ventilator allows "unfiltered" air out, and that *could* be bad.  But a cloth mask also allows a lot of unfiltered air out - and that's why they're more comfortable.  But - this should  only matter if the virus is airborne - correct?  Both the cloth mask, and ventilated 95 stop a majority of "droplets" which is their purpose. 

I mentioned in another thread, I have a couple ventilated N95's, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by wearing them.  Am I being jerk? 

I feel like this guidance is going overboard, and the only risk of using a ventilated mask (or cloth mask) is in "sterile" environments.

The study linked actually has a nice chart showing total droplet count released (attached).  Turns out, vented 95 is on par with most cotton masks.  Fitted N95 and surgical come out on top, a bunch of others are reasonable (cotton, vented n95, etc) many are worse.

valve or vents are bad.  It isn't overboard.  Analogous to having your fly open and your dick out and still saying you're wearing pants.

You're wrong (as is related to my vented n95 question).  Unless you also think all those with cotton masks are the same.

Edit: here's the link to the supplementary data:
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/suppl/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083.DC1/abd3083_SM.pdf

Edit 2: funny enough, this just showed up in my news feed.  So hard to get accurate information!
https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-face-mask-vent-valve-cdc.amp
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 11, 2020, 04:43:19 AM
Based on those graphs, any mask is better than NONE and some are a little better than others.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 11, 2020, 07:23:21 AM
Okay help me out here please - does cotton1,2 etc refer to layers? If so, why does it look like cotton3 is worse than the others? Or does it refer to something else?
It looks like cotton/poly blends are the best, aside from surgical and N95’s?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 11, 2020, 07:32:25 AM
Okay help me out here please - does cotton1,2 etc refer to layers? If so, why does it look like cotton3 is worse than the others? Or does it refer to something else?
It looks like cotton/poly blends are the best, aside from surgical and N95’s?

Page 8 in rocky’s link has a more in-depth description, even though it leaves a non mask expert like me with some more questions.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 11, 2020, 07:56:18 AM
There’s a reason I didn’t go into a scientific career 😁....
I was out walking with friends last week and one had a mask with a valve. I kept meandering around trying to avoid it lol.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 11, 2020, 08:09:44 AM
There’s a reason I didn’t go into a scientific career 😁....
I was out walking with friends last week and one had a mask with a valve. I kept meandering around trying to avoid it lol.

Sorry I thought that was the full Duke study.  Here is the link with the descriptions on page 8

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083.full.pdf (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083.full.pdf)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 11, 2020, 08:24:25 AM
[/shadow]
Sorry I thought that was the full Duke study.  Here is the link with the descriptions on page 8

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083.full.pdf (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083.full.pdf)


Nice to see some actual data. I had been wearing an unfitted, vented N95 mask (used once, from an old woodworking project) until a week or two ago, when I read reports that I was protecting myself but potentially infecting others. I then switched to my pleated cotton mask to protect others from spread. Guess I will be switching back to my vented N95.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 11, 2020, 09:46:14 AM
I have some masks that don’t seem to fit the pictures. I also can’t figure out why the one-later pleated would perform better than the two-layer, if I read this chart right.
What is an Olson mask?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 11, 2020, 10:28:26 AM
Based on those graphs, any mask is better than NONE and some are a little better than others.

Some masks are an order of magnitude better than others.

They really should have made all of those charts on the same x-axis scale. It take time to compare them to each other because each chart's scale is different.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 11, 2020, 10:49:40 AM
Some masks are an order of magnitude better than others.

They really should have made all of those charts on the same x-axis scale. It take time to compare them to each other because each chart's scale is different.

Yes, and I even had trouble figuring out whether mask descriptions were on top or bottom of the chart.  Nonetheless, good data.

Nice to see some actual data. I had been wearing an unfitted, vented N95 mask (used once, from an old woodworking project) until a week or two ago, when I read reports that I was protecting myself but potentially infecting others. I then switched to my pleated cotton mask to protect others from spread. Guess I will be switching back to my vented N95.

Agreed on data, BUT I'll caution about using the vented still.  CDC has been issuing guidance to avoid them, so on flights, some restaurants, etc you'll sill be denied entrance.  Keep your neck gator around for those situations!  lol.

I mean, it's a shame official mask guidance hasn't been based on studies, but that's what we get these days.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 11, 2020, 10:56:36 AM
Descriptions from the study:

1, ‘Surgical’ * Surgical mask, 3-layer
2, ‘Valved N95’ N95 mask with exhalation valve
3, ‘Knitted’ Knitted mask
4, ‘PolyProp’ 2-layer polypropylene apron mask
5, ‘Poly/Cotton’ Cotton-polypropylene-cotton mask
6, ‘MaxAT’ 1-layer Maxima AT mask
7, ‘Cotton2’ 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask
8, ‘Cotton4’ 2-layer cotton, Olson style mask
9, ‘Cotton3′ 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask
10, ‘Cotton1’ 1-layer cotton, pleated style mask
11, ‘Fleece’ Gaiter type neck fleece
12, ‘Bandana’ * Double-layer bandana
13, ‘Cotton5′ * 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask
14, ‘Fitted N95’ N95 mask, no exhalation valve, fitted
‘Swath’ Swath of mask material, polypropylene
‘None’ * Control experiment, no mask
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on August 11, 2020, 11:11:19 AM
Descriptions from the study:

1, ‘Surgical’ * Surgical mask, 3-layer
2, ‘Valved N95’ N95 mask with exhalation valve
3, ‘Knitted’ Knitted mask
4, ‘PolyProp’ 2-layer polypropylene apron mask
5, ‘Poly/Cotton’ Cotton-polypropylene-cotton mask
6, ‘MaxAT’ 1-layer Maxima AT mask
7, ‘Cotton2’ 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask
8, ‘Cotton4’ 2-layer cotton, Olson style mask
9, ‘Cotton3′ 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask
10, ‘Cotton1’ 1-layer cotton, pleated style mask
11, ‘Fleece’ Gaiter type neck fleece
12, ‘Bandana’ * Double-layer bandana
13, ‘Cotton5′ * 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask
14, ‘Fitted N95’ N95 mask, no exhalation valve, fitted
‘Swath’ Swath of mask material, polypropylene
‘None’ * Control experiment, no mask

Save us all time and rank all these in order of best to worst
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 11, 2020, 11:25:40 AM
Save us all time and rank all these in order of best to worst

Here someone did this with the pictures.  I don’t know if they did it right/accurately

https://twitter.com/alirendara/status/1292524052125495297?s=21 (https://twitter.com/alirendara/status/1292524052125495297?s=21)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 11, 2020, 11:36:10 AM
Here someone did this with the pictures.  I don’t know if they did it right/accurately

https://twitter.com/alirendara/status/1292524052125495297?s=21 (https://twitter.com/alirendara/status/1292524052125495297?s=21)

Also, NY Post with pics and descriptions:
https://nypost.com/2020/08/11/duke-university-face-mask-researchers-share-more-on-study/
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 11, 2020, 11:50:28 AM
Why has nobody studied the N100 respirators in these comparisons?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 11, 2020, 01:35:14 PM

Agreed on data, BUT I'll caution about using the vented still.  CDC has been issuing guidance to avoid them, so on flights, some restaurants, etc you'll sill be denied entrance.  Keep your neck gator around for those situations!  lol.

I mean, it's a shame official mask guidance hasn't been based on studies, but that's what we get these days.



Yep. I always have a couple of simple cloth masks in the car just in case.

And the neck gator stays home until I need it for the cold weather.  ;)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: injuryBug on August 11, 2020, 01:42:37 PM
Also, NY Post with pics and descriptions:
https://nypost.com/2020/08/11/duke-university-face-mask-researchers-share-more-on-study/

so it is better to not have a mask than to have a neck gaiter interesting
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on August 11, 2020, 01:51:37 PM
so it is better to not have a mask than to have a neck gaiter interesting

I just got one and it seems really thin. Also, when watching the Brewers, it’s crazy how many times people touch it. Then the pulling and pulling down. I can see how that would be worse for spread than no mask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 11, 2020, 04:04:23 PM
There was a reference to this in the Washington post that makes total sense as a skier.  It catches lager droplets then let’s you aerosolize them...thereby increasing the spread and distance of the droplets. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: injuryBug on August 11, 2020, 07:49:05 PM
There was a reference to this in the Washington post that makes total sense as a skier.  It catches lager droplets then let’s you aerosolize them...thereby increasing the spread and distance of the droplets.

interesting i have had one since may and just about all i wear.  Had to wear a an over the ear one the other day when i went into a disney store as they only allow over the ear as part of the disney corp.  Definitely can breathe easier with the gaiter on
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 11, 2020, 08:10:56 PM
I got a number of gaiters from Mission a couple of months ago.  I have worn them all summer.  Even through a week in the hot spot that is Myrtle Beach.   Cool and convenient.   I am going to have to research their fabric.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: injuryBug on August 11, 2020, 10:07:19 PM
I got a number of gaiters from Mission a couple of months ago.  I have worn them all summer.  Even through a week in the hot spot that is Myrtle Beach.   Cool and convenient.   I am going to have to research their fabric.

I can only see them getting more popular as people see them on mlb games.  Like you said it is all about the material
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 12, 2020, 06:26:40 AM
I have talked with several doctors about gaiters, and they are convinced that the worries about them being "worse than not wearing anything" are BS.

And FWIW, I don't own one myself.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 12, 2020, 06:39:58 AM
I have talked with several doctors about gaiters, and they are convinced that the worries about them being "worse than not wearing anything" are BS.

And FWIW, I don't own one myself.

Honest question.  They don’t trust the study that showed this with droplets and a laser?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on August 12, 2020, 07:24:24 AM
Marion County, Florida:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/12/masks-florida-ban-billy-woods/#click=https://t.co/Bfmf116FJv
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 12, 2020, 08:01:37 AM
Marion County, Florida:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/12/masks-florida-ban-billy-woods/#click=https://t.co/Bfmf116FJv

Florida, man.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 12, 2020, 01:20:14 PM
Honest question.  They don’t trust the study that showed this with droplets and a laser?

There are a lot of stubborn and hard headed doctors.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 13, 2020, 10:12:22 AM
CDC says valved or vented masks do not prevent spread... article behind WaPo paywall.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 13, 2020, 11:04:48 AM
Well, of course not. I don't want your exhale invading my inhale, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 13, 2020, 11:50:23 AM
Well, of course not. I don't want your exhale invading my inhale, hey?

I only bring it up because of the study posted earlier this week.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 13, 2020, 09:31:44 PM
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2020/08/christian-parents-call-wisconsin-school-districts-face-mask-requirement-satanic/?fbclid=IwAR0jt2FTXcTW6vhEcLEaWf_gGvJ1AAuIh6Xt9IreXySq7_ihARBxWXKu-38

The truth is out about those satanic school boards.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: BM1090 on August 13, 2020, 09:35:32 PM
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2020/08/christian-parents-call-wisconsin-school-districts-face-mask-requirement-satanic/?fbclid=IwAR0jt2FTXcTW6vhEcLEaWf_gGvJ1AAuIh6Xt9IreXySq7_ihARBxWXKu-38

The truth is out about those satanic school boards.

That's sounds about right for my former high school.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 13, 2020, 11:25:00 PM
Some additional thoughts about the recent mask study.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid19-neck-gaiters-masks-droplets-study

Basically, it provided a good baseline for how to test masks, but perhaps too much is being interpreted from the individual results.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on August 14, 2020, 08:05:38 AM
https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1294242977209081856?s=19

"How QAnon rode the pandemic to new heights — and fueled the viral anti-mask phenomenon"

"Facebook now has over 1,000 of these QAnon groups, totalling millions of members"

Come for the mask talk. Stay for the "Satan Worshiping baby eaters"

Few things in life worse than people who know better preying upon vulnerable people's fears and emotional instability for self serving gain.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MarquetteDano on August 14, 2020, 11:25:50 AM
https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1294242977209081856?s=19

"How QAnon rode the pandemic to new heights — and fueled the viral anti-mask phenomenon"

"Facebook now has over 1,000 of these QAnon groups, totalling millions of members"

Come for the mask talk. Stay for the "Satan Worshiping baby eaters"

Few things in life worse than people who know better preying upon vulnerable people's fears and emotional instability for self serving gain.

I used to find this stuff humorous but with COVID they are not only killing their own with their behavior, but others too.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on August 14, 2020, 11:52:00 AM
https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1294242977209081856?s=19

"How QAnon rode the pandemic to new heights — and fueled the viral anti-mask phenomenon"

"Facebook now has over 1,000 of these QAnon groups, totalling millions of members"

Come for the mask talk. Stay for the "Satan Worshiping baby eaters"

Few things in life worse than people who know better preying upon vulnerable people's fears and emotional instability for self serving gain.

We've definitely got some Q folks on this board, Aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 14, 2020, 09:36:44 PM
The wife and I made the drive out to Cincy yesterday.  Moved the kid into the dorm today.  Everyone wearing masks at rest stops on the way and downtown and on campus also.  The wife and I have been pleasantly surprised.  All seem to be taking it seriously. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on August 15, 2020, 07:49:26 AM
Not sure if people have seen this yet, but it's someone critiquing the reaction to "that mask study."

https://twitter.com/katherineefoley/status/1293937327279157250?s=20

"4/x A group from Duke thought it would be great to have a cheaper way to evaluate masks. They came up w one using lasers! They had a speaker wear different kinds of masks and speak a sentence + measured the ways the laser light refracted around any particles (droplets) emitted [...] The authors didn't compare this new method with any existing method! Should they have? Maybe! But that wasn't really the point of their work. This was a proof-of-concept paper that got blown up."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 15, 2020, 08:14:31 AM
I wonder how social distancing/lack of plays into this.
Yesterday I was in a line outside to buy ice cream in the Ravenswood area of Chicago from a walk up window. I’m masked, second in line, standing well behind the people actually at the window. Five cops get in line behind me, ‘special function’ in fatigues. None of them masked. Unfortunately for me the overly-friendly type, (at least while buying ice cream), chatting away with a family passing by. One even insisted I had to see his pictures of Devils Tower on his phone  from his family trip.
I mean, I’m all for good community relations, but aside from me and the employees, no one else was masked ( in fairness I can’t remember about the couple in front of me), nor keeping social distance. I kept inching back.  Now I am like aghhh, and wish I had pretended I had a phone call, stepped out of the line and let them go ahead, but I did not think of that.  Once I placed my order, I was able to step six feet away, at least.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on August 15, 2020, 08:57:56 AM
Bill Plaschke is the long time sports columnist at the L.A. Times. He wrote a column recently about his experience being COVID-19 positive.

He is very much a take precautions, take it seriously person. But after months of doing everything well, he made a mistake. He went to dinner with another couple, sitting outside, distanced. Instead of wearing a mask before and after eating, they didn't wear masks because they thought being outside, distanced would be okay. He believes this where he got the virus.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2020-08-12/column-bill-plaschke-covid-19-experience?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on August 16, 2020, 03:54:58 PM
Tuscaloosa, Alabama:

https://twitter.com/bgchrisowens/status/1295053211120873474
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 16, 2020, 04:42:06 PM
Tuscaloosa, Alabama:

https://twitter.com/bgchrisowens/status/1295053211120873474

Alabama's AD has thoughts:


Greg Byrne
@Greg_Byrne
Who wants college sports this fall?? 🏈⚽️🏐🏃🏼‍♀️🏃🏿
Obviously not these people!! 🤦🏼‍♂️

We’ve got to do better than this for each other and our campus community.  Please wear your masks!😷
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 16, 2020, 05:55:44 PM
Here's all kinds of mask fun!

https://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/national/article244999605.html?ac_cid=DM260952&ac_bid=1792226956

A security guard in St. Louis was beaten early Saturday after he told three men they had to put on face masks to enter a Shell gas station, Missouri police say.

Three men tried to enter a Shell gas station around 2:30 a.m. without wearing masks, according to police documents.

When the security guard told the men they weren’t allowed inside without face coverings, they refused to put on masks and left the store, police said.

Not long after, they opened the exit door and started “taunting” the security guard, police said. The security guard told the men to leave, but they surrounded him and started punching him in the head and face, according to police.

One of the men grabbed the security guard’s baton from his hip and used it to hit him several times, police said.


Meanwhile, in Kansas ...

Mask orders appear to be slowing the spread of infections in Kansas, according to an analysis by The Kansas City Star and The Wichita Eagle.

Cases in 16 counties with a mask order trended down since last month, while cases in 89 counties without an order trended up, the analysis found.

Kansas’ Democratic governor mandated masks across the largely conservative state but signed a law in June that gave county commissions the power to opt out — and most did.

The resulting patchwork of local rules kicked off an experiment to learn whether ordering the use of masks is effective policy.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on August 19, 2020, 07:13:56 PM
Former member of Seal Team 6 during Bin Laden raid, faces Delta Air Lines ban, for refusal to wear a mask:


https://theintercept.com/2020/08/19/robert-oneill-bin-laden-coronavirus-mask-delta/


Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 19, 2020, 07:46:29 PM
Former member of Seal Team 6 during Bin Laden raid, faces Delta Air Lines ban, for refusal to wear a mask:


https://theintercept.com/2020/08/19/robert-oneill-bin-laden-coronavirus-mask-delta/

That’s the kind of thing that d-bags do.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on August 19, 2020, 08:37:05 PM
Former member of Seal Team 6 during Bin Laden raid, faces Delta Air Lines ban, for refusal to wear a mask:


https://theintercept.com/2020/08/19/robert-oneill-bin-laden-coronavirus-mask-delta/

I assume this guy will be hailed as a hero by some. Much like the seal who committed war crimes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on August 20, 2020, 06:41:41 AM
I assume this guy will be hailed as a hero by some. Much like the seal who committed war crimes.

Pretty sure that's why he did it. He's a media-personality for hire now, this just raises his profile with the set of people he sells to.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 20, 2020, 07:27:18 AM
Pretty sure that's why he did it. He's a media-personality for hire now, this just raises his profile with the set of people he sells to.

It is why anyone does things like this.  They can cash in on other people's outrage.  He will be some network's "military expert" in a week, and then there will be a book deal, and then a run for office.

All of this behavior is so predictable.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 20, 2020, 07:47:34 AM
Karen.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on August 20, 2020, 08:36:42 AM
It is why anyone does things like this.  They can cash in on other people's outrage.  He will be some network's "military expert" in a week, and then there will be a book deal, and then a run for office.

All of this behavior is so predictable.

A.B.G. baby. Always. Be. Grifting.

I'm not positive, but I think that dude was flying home after campaigning for a GOP candidate in Wisconsin, and tweeted "I shook thousands of hands and gave thousands of hugs this week. I flew on some planes. I’ll be alive next week." He's welly and truly plugged into the outrage grift complex.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 20, 2020, 02:13:00 PM
Pretty sure that's why he did it. He's a media-personality for hire now, this just raises his profile with the set of people he sells to.

He’s also been outed as a dishonest POS for quite awhile now
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Macallan 18 on August 21, 2020, 09:08:56 AM
Thought this was a well done video encouraging the Marquette community to mask up.

https://youtu.be/XmcuAxDyWog (https://youtu.be/XmcuAxDyWog)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on August 23, 2020, 03:56:37 PM
Economic value of wearing a mask:

https://twitter.com/StratGleeson/status/1297613468674035713?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 24, 2020, 01:10:42 PM
Predictably, despite promising repeatedly that they would adhere to the mask-wearing and social-distancing rules if we would let them stage some of the RNC here in Charlotte, they instead did whatever they wanted.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/rnc-2020/article245196385.html?

Face masks were supposed to be worn at the Republican National Convention in Charlotte. In addition to North Carolina’s COVID-19 statewide mask mandate, RNC staff agreed to enforce the rule inside the convention center.

But on the floor of the RNC, strict coronavirus protocols quickly fell by the wayside Monday.

Social distancing was expected too — in addition to COVID-19 symptom screening and testing — to prevent a virus flareup as more than 300 delegates gathered at the Charlotte Convention Center Monday, in a dramatically scaled-down RNC to renominate President Donald Trump.

But many inside were seen not wearing masks and some attendees shook hands and huddled in tight-knit circles as the RNC recessed awaiting the arrival of Vice President Mike Pence. Among delegates and convention staff, some people did wear masks. Still others did not or were seen wearing face coverings ineffectively, such as having the mask slung below their chins.


I have gotten to the point where I don't care what happens to the mouth-breathers themselves in the name of "freedom." They want to court sickness and death, that's on them. Hundreds got sick after Tulsa, and several died, including Herman Cain. All preventable, all needless, but it was their choice.

But then they go out into the community and infect others. Just totally selfish, stupid and dangerous.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 24, 2020, 04:06:56 PM
Well bars and restaurants get shut down for not complying.....
300 people? Does NC not have capacity restrictions?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 24, 2020, 04:15:53 PM
Well bars and restaurants get shut down for not complying.....
300 people? Does NC not have capacity restrictions?

Yeah, the article goes into that later, but it's not that easy to enforce and they don't want to cause a riot or anything.

NC gave the RNC permission to have more than current coronavirus meeting laws allow because we wanted to be open-minded hosts and they promised to social distance and wear masks. I guess that falls in line with promises like, "Mexico will pay for it."

The big part of the meeting is over, they've conducted their business, and the president told about an hour worth of lies, so it shouldn't be an issue from here on out.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on August 25, 2020, 10:37:02 AM
Usain Bolt, is COVID-19 positive after "Mask Free" birthday party. (several other athletes in attendance)

https://www.ibtimes.com/usain-bolt-tests-positive-covid-19-self-isolation-after-mask-free-birthday-party-3034158?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 27, 2020, 08:12:09 AM
Few who attended Vice Hypocrite Pence's speech last night wore masks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 27, 2020, 09:55:15 PM
"Addressing a maskless crowd of supporters seated close together on the South Lawn of the White House, President Trump on Thursday night accepted his party’s presidential nomination ... "

Sigh.

And then, when a dozen or more of them get infected (though hopefully none of them meet the fate of Herman Cain after the Tulsa travesty), President Pandemic's sycophants can again say he did a "solid" job and that nobody could have prevented those infections.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 28, 2020, 11:34:59 AM
And so it begins (or, should I say, continues) ...

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article245322115.html?

Two attendees and two support staff at the Republican National Convention tested positive for COVID-19, Mecklenburg County officials announced Friday morning.

Those people were instructed to isolate immediately, and close contacts were also told to quarantine, officials said in a statement.

The disclosures come after county health officials raised concerned about a lack of social distancing and mask wearing during the business meeting of the RNC in Charlotte on Monday — despite strict coronavirus protocols that were supposed to be followed.

But the public may need to wait weeks for an “after-action” report detailing the true scope of infections linked to the RNC. For now, Mecklenburg Public Health Director Gibbie Harris has said the convention posed no infection risk to the greater Charlotte area.


I wish they had taken their entire Infection Fest 2020 completely onto the interwebs.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 28, 2020, 11:55:16 AM
I wish they had taken their entire Infection Fest 2020 completely onto the interwebs.

The "we ain't afeared of science" crowd wouldn't have liked that.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on August 30, 2020, 07:32:28 AM
Alaska:

https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1299874056318210050?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 30, 2020, 07:48:02 AM
Alaska:

https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1299874056318210050?s=19

The Longhorns are back!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: reinko on August 30, 2020, 07:50:38 AM
Alaska:

https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1299874056318210050?s=19

The UT hat, gloves, and sweatpants is a helluva combo.

🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 30, 2020, 10:19:07 AM
Alaska:

https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1299874056318210050?s=19
Angry older white dude, spitting on people as he threatens them? Check.

I will not shed a tear if his behavior causes him to blow a gasket.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 30, 2020, 10:24:35 AM
Call the police.  Arrest him for trespass, and assault.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 30, 2020, 01:57:22 PM
Had the misfortune of traveling to WI today. Surprising number of people not wearing masks in the gas station and on the street.

Nice to be back in Chicago again.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on August 30, 2020, 03:49:32 PM
Had the misfortune of traveling to WI today. Surprising number of people not wearing masks in the gas station and on the street.

Nice to be back in Chicago again.

By on the street do you mean people walking outside? I guess taking the dog for a walk I don’t wear one since even if I do see someone to talk to, we make sure to stay 6 ft. If I’m walking to a store or shop, I’d wear a mask since I’m anticipating going somewhere I’ll need it.

Just curious as that doesn’t seem to be where a mask is needed.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 30, 2020, 04:59:27 PM
Had the misfortune of traveling to WI today. Surprising number of people not wearing masks in the gas station and on the street.

Nice to be back in Chicago again.

Masks are not required when filling up your car.

If they went into the station, they are breaking the law.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 30, 2020, 05:13:41 PM
Masks are not required when filling up your car.

If they went into the station, they are breaking the law.

Inside the gas station down by Ryan Rd. It was really odd to experience after having not left Chicago for a few months where everyone has been excellent with masks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: HutchwasClutch on August 30, 2020, 05:28:50 PM
Masks are not required when filling up your car.

If they went into the station, they are breaking the law.

Breaking a law? No they wouldn’t be. A governor’s order is not law. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 30, 2020, 05:56:05 PM
Inside the gas station down by Ryan Rd. It was really odd to experience after having not left Chicago for a few months where everyone has been excellent with masks.

The decline of Wisconsin has been swift and embarrassing
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 30, 2020, 06:29:29 PM
The decline of Wisconsin has been swift and embarrassing

I can't believe how many times WI has made international news in the past year. It's turned into Florida North.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 30, 2020, 08:59:31 PM
Inside the gas station down by Ryan Rd. It was really odd to experience after having not left Chicago for a few months where everyone has been excellent with masks.

Sad to hear, Skat. But living here, I am not surprised.

On Friday, my next store neighbor (who I have been friends with for years) came over and walked right up to me, arm extended to shake hands. Big grin on his face. I just told him to get off my property. I am through with these people.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 30, 2020, 09:01:06 PM
The decline of Wisconsin has been swift and embarrassing

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/BrwHJ6d26YKmAicqr1OsszXkuwKTrrwfdSLCqgd_fDgdMEqPKCeadtYW3H7DXUS_89DgUioH_-tJez3oatqajvHGeUjmLu5hVNJrEXLks9wzYq6wFO_bmfc61Jjo0on5s3n8JmZ-r9i0YlVp6RgvE769lw=w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 30, 2020, 10:17:39 PM
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/BrwHJ6d26YKmAicqr1OsszXkuwKTrrwfdSLCqgd_fDgdMEqPKCeadtYW3H7DXUS_89DgUioH_-tJez3oatqajvHGeUjmLu5hVNJrEXLks9wzYq6wFO_bmfc61Jjo0on5s3n8JmZ-r9i0YlVp6RgvE769lw=w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu)

"I encourage other Republican presidential candidates to consider doing the same so that the voters can focus on a limited number of candidates who can offer a positive, conservative alternative to the current front-runner," said Walker, referencing businessman Donald Trump. "This is fundamentally important to the future of our party, and, more important, the future of the country."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 30, 2020, 10:19:17 PM
Sad to hear, Skat. But living here, I am not surprised.

On Friday, my next store neighbor (who I have been friends with for years) came over and walked right up to me, arm extended to shake hands. Big grin on his face. I just told him to get off my property. I am through with these people.

So you told someone, who you supposedly have been friends with for years, to “get off your property” like you would an annoying door to door salesman, instead of politely asking if he’d wear a mask or mentioning you’re not comfortable with him being mask-less?  :o
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 30, 2020, 11:02:16 PM
So you told someone, who you supposedly have been friends with for years, to “get off your property” like you would an annoying door to door salesman, instead of politely asking if he’d wear a mask or mentioning you’re not comfortable with him being mask-less?  :o

Seems like a perfect jockitch response.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 31, 2020, 08:33:38 AM
So you told someone, who you supposedly have been friends with for years, to “get off your property” like you would an annoying door to door salesman, instead of politely asking if he’d wear a mask or mentioning you’re not comfortable with him being mask-less?  :o

No mask
Within 6 feet
Attempting physical contact
During a pandemic

That's no accident.

Would you really be polite to someone intentionally putting your health and the health of your family at risk? Really odd sentiment. Most people have a greater sense of self preservation. Or are you just uncomfortable with conflict?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: injuryBug on August 31, 2020, 08:49:43 AM
So you told someone, who you supposedly have been friends with for years, to “get off your property” like you would an annoying door to door salesman, instead of politely asking if he’d wear a mask or mentioning you’re not comfortable with him being mask-less?  :o

and its his neighbor, makes a lot more sense to ask nicely.  Always good to make enemies with your neighbors
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 31, 2020, 09:03:56 AM

No mask
Within 6 feet
Attempting physical contact
During a pandemic

That's no accident.


Would you really be polite to someone intentionally putting your health and the health of your family at risk? Really odd sentiment. Most people have a greater sense of self preservation. Or are you just uncomfortable with conflict?



Yeah - that sounds like a neighbor who is either oblivious to the situation, or intentionally trying to create a confrontation in a passive-aggressive way (the smile, the attempted handshake). I have been friends with my neighbors for years - the people to my east have been there for the entire 22 years I have lived here - and they are respectful enough to know not to get right up in my grill and attempt physical contact in the middle of the pandemic.

A polite request seems like the better approach, but I don't know enough about the situation to judge the appropriateness of the response.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 31, 2020, 09:27:55 AM
Who goes out of their way to walk up and shake a long-standing neighbors hand? I have been friends with my neighbors for decades, and we routinely walk over to say hi , or yell across the street, and since March if we walk over we wear masks and/or keep distanced, but shaking hands would seem weird. Totally intentional.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 31, 2020, 09:34:44 AM
Few folks like confrontation, and this is not an easy topic.

My wife and I went to a brewery Saturday and sat outside with our dog. At one point, an older gentleman who we think was either the owner or manager came over, brought our dog a bowl of water and petted her.

He couldn't have been nicer ... but he also wasn't wearing a mask. And neither were we, as we were enjoying malt beverages and sitting at our table, which was at least 20 feet away from the nearest table.

So you have just a few seconds to think, "This guy is being so nice. Do I turn a nice thing into a potential confrontation by asking him to put on a mask? Maybe he's just about ready to leave, and even if I ask as politely as possible, he might take it personally and create a scene ... which will then pull me in and get me to turn ornery?"

I could tell that my wife, who REALLY hates it when insensitive mouth-breathers refuse to wear masks and invade her space, was starting to get upset. Thankfully, the guy left a few seconds later, and conflict was avoided.

My wife later told me she was just about ready to ask the guy to PLEASE wear a mask. And then some would have painted her as the mean one.

FWIW, an NC mandate requires all restaurant/bar/store employees to wear masks when at work, whether inside or outside.

Just wear an effen mask. It isn't too much to ask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 31, 2020, 10:46:31 AM
So you told someone, who you supposedly have been friends with for years, to “get off your property” like you would an annoying door to door salesman, instead of politely asking if he’d wear a mask or mentioning you’re not comfortable with him being mask-less?  :o

Yes. He’s a far right republican who makes fun of wearing masks. Much as I disagree, I recognize that is his right. But he knows exactly where I stand as we have talked about it.

To blatantly show that much disrespect may also be his right, but it is not something I’ll be a part of.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 31, 2020, 10:53:40 AM
Yes. He’s a far right republican who makes fun of wearing masks. Much as I disagree, I recognize that is his right. But he knows exactly where I stand as we have talked about it.

To blatantly show that much disrespect may also be his right, but it is not something I’ll be a part of.

Well thats a very different piece of the story. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on August 31, 2020, 11:51:29 AM
Few folks like confrontation, and this is not an easy topic.

My wife and I went to a brewery Saturday and sat outside with our dog. At one point, an older gentleman who we think was either the owner or manager came over, brought our dog a bowl of water and petted her.

He couldn't have been nicer ... but he also wasn't wearing a mask. And neither were we, as we were enjoying malt beverages and sitting at our table, which was at least 20 feet away from the nearest table.

So you have just a few seconds to think, "This guy is being so nice. Do I turn a nice thing into a potential confrontation by asking him to put on a mask? Maybe he's just about ready to leave, and even if I ask as politely as possible, he might take it personally and create a scene ... which will then pull me in and get me to turn ornery?"

I could tell that my wife, who REALLY hates it when insensitive mouth-breathers refuse to wear masks and invade her space, was starting to get upset. Thankfully, the guy left a few seconds later, and conflict was avoided.

My wife later told me she was just about ready to ask the guy to PLEASE wear a mask. And then some would have painted her as the mean one.

FWIW, an NC mandate requires all restaurant/bar/store employees to wear masks when at work, whether inside or outside.

Just wear an effen mask. It isn't too much to ask.

I also worry that if you ask someone to put on a mask, they linger to have a passioned discussion about why they don’t need a mask. Usually I just try to keep my distance as best as possible and hurry the conversation.

It’s certainly a delicate balance of my normal tendency of being non-confrontational but also standing up for my health.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mu03eng on August 31, 2020, 01:30:24 PM
The transmission risk for "normal interactions" is at the highest under the following conditions:
-Indoors
-Talking face to face for 15+ minutes
-One person is symptomatic
-Minimal handwashing is taking place.
-No masks

If any of those things switches to the safer side of things (ie the interaction is outdoor vs indoor) the transmission risk goes down. I tend to temper my reaction based on the risk side. So if I'm having a very brief conversation with someone not in a mask that is outdoors, I'm leaving well enough alone (because mentioning it is more than likely to create a longer conversation and by extension longer risk).

Side note, it may not be a scientifically provable outcome, but anecdotally masks work. My wife and her co-worker (both Physical Therapists) have had face to face, indoor, 50 minute interactions with patients who were both mildly symptomatic at the time of interaction (co-worker's spouse died of Covid two weeks later) but hadn't yet been tested or examined at the time of the appointments. These patients tested positive within 4 days of the latest visit......both my wife and co-worker tested negative when they went in on their own to get tested just to have piece of mind.

Why, because everyone in the encounter was wearing masks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 31, 2020, 01:35:27 PM
Side note, it may not be a scientifically provable outcome, but anecdotally masks work. My wife and her co-worker (both Physical Therapists) have had face to face, indoor, 50 minute interactions with patients who were both mildly symptomatic at the time of interaction (co-worker's spouse died of Covid two weeks later) but hadn't yet been tested or examined at the time of the appointments. These patients tested positive within 4 days of the latest visit......both my wife and co-worker tested negative when they went in on their own to get tested just to have piece of mind.

I think about the Great Clips example too...

I think all the 'mask stuff' is just so dumb at this point.  I would paint my face florescent green every morning if it meant being able to have some semblance of a normal environment/choice of activities.  To each there own I guess.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 31, 2020, 01:39:56 PM
The transmission risk for "normal interactions" is at the highest under the following conditions:
-Indoors
-Talking face to face for 15+ minutes
-One person is symptomatic
-Minimal handwashing is taking place.
-No masks

If any of those things switches to the safer side of things (ie the interaction is outdoor vs indoor) the transmission risk goes down. I tend to temper my reaction based on the risk side. So if I'm having a very brief conversation with someone not in a mask that is outdoors, I'm leaving well enough alone (because mentioning it is more than likely to create a longer conversation and by extension longer risk).

Side note, it may not be a scientifically provable outcome, but anecdotally masks work. My wife and her co-worker (both Physical Therapists) have had face to face, indoor, 50 minute interactions with patients who were both mildly symptomatic at the time of interaction (co-worker's spouse died of Covid two weeks later) but hadn't yet been tested or examined at the time of the appointments. These patients tested positive within 4 days of the latest visit......both my wife and co-worker tested negative when they went in on their own to get tested just to have piece of mind.

Why, because everyone in the encounter was wearing masks.

All very logical and rooted in science, so naturally I agree.

As much as anything, a person wearing a mask when he or she approaches another person simply signals, "I care about you and your health." In addition to being good health practice, it's good manners - akin to not coughing or sneezing into somebody's face.

There probably aren't 2 Americans who think it's patriotic or "freedom" to sneeze into another person's face. That millions of people think it's somehow patriotic to not wear a mask when encountering a fellow American during a deadly pandemic ... it's more than a little infuriating.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 31, 2020, 01:46:01 PM
Well thats a very different piece of the story.

To add one more piece - he did this the day after Evers mandated masks.

I have never in my life had any problem with anyone's politics - until now. As I'm sure you know when working in corporate America, you run into more republicans than Dems. So I would guess that I had more R friends than D friends. For many, I had no idea what their politics were.

But that has changed, somewhat. I try not to associate with trumpers. At all. I wouldn't even call them Rs as they no longer espouse what they have have always said they believed it. It is just a cult of personality now, no longer a "political party".
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mu03eng on August 31, 2020, 02:07:47 PM
All very logical and rooted in science, so naturally I agree.

As much as anything, a person wearing a mask when he or she approaches another person simply signals, "I care about you and your health." In addition to being good health practice, it's good manners - akin to not coughing or sneezing into somebody's face.

There probably aren't 2 Americans who think it's patriotic or "freedom" to sneeze into another person's face. That millions of people think it's somehow patriotic to not wear a mask when encountering a fellow American during a deadly pandemic ... it's more than a little infuriating.


I don't disagree about the signaling, but I also assume that some people are forgetful, especially outdoors. This is a simple application of Hanlon's Razor.

I mean I know I'm super anal about having and wearing a mask and even I've forgotten to mask up during a brief outdoor interface (mostly golf courses). humans are humans after all.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Johnny B on August 31, 2020, 02:09:27 PM
i guess that freindships going on hiatus eh
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mu03eng on August 31, 2020, 02:12:18 PM
To add one more piece - he did this the day after Evers mandated masks.

I have never in my life had any problem with anyone's politics - until now. As I'm sure you know when working in corporate America, you run into more republicans than Dems. So I would guess that I had more R friends than D friends. For many, I had no idea what their politics were.

But that has changed, somewhat. I try not to associate with trumpers. At all. I wouldn't even call them Rs as they no longer espouse what they have have always said they believed it. It is just a cult of personality now, no longer a "political party".

Probably shouldn't discuss this point as I've largely walked away from the board as unreadable for all sorts of reasons......but ostracizing and/or ignoring a whole class of people is part of how we get into these messes. Just because someone is a Trump supporter doesn't mean A) they can't be talked to reasonably or B) that they are right or wrong. I'd make the same argument if someone was on here talking about ignoring Antifa or AOC followers or whatever the equivalent is on the other side. All this tribalism is exactly why the science of things like masks, treatments, etc has become twisted and perverted.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 31, 2020, 03:23:33 PM
Probably shouldn't discuss this point as I've largely walked away from the board as unreadable for all sorts of reasons......but ostracizing and/or ignoring a whole class of people is part of how we get into these messes.


Am I the only person who sees the contradiction here?

I for one hope you don't give up and leave, as I generally respect your posts even when I don't agree with them. But c'mon - you can't admit you may leave out of frustration and then criticize people who ignore 'the other side' out of the exact same type of frustration.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mu03eng on August 31, 2020, 03:33:49 PM

Am I the only person who sees the contradiction here?

I for one hope you don't give up and leave, as I generally respect your posts even when I don't agree with them. But c'mon - you can't admit you may leave out of frustration and then criticize people who ignore 'the other side' out of the exact same type of frustration.

distinction is one is talking to real people and the other is typing on a message board that really doesn't matter much in the grand order of things (especially when the covid board is like the tertiary purpose of MUScoop at best). Additionally, this isn't about me ignoring any one side, this is about removing myself from all sides in what has become a pretty toxic and unproductive discussion (even by Scoop standards)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on August 31, 2020, 03:45:12 PM
distinction is one is talking to real people and the other is typing on a message board that really doesn't matter much in the grand order of things (especially when the covid board is like the tertiary purpose of MUScoop at best). Additionally, this isn't about me ignoring any one side, this is about removing myself from all sides in what has become a pretty toxic and unproductive discussion (even by Scoop standards)


I don't disagree about how toxic some of the threads have become. But then why do people have to pay attention to 'real people' who are Trump or AOC supporters, when discussions between those groups become equally (probably even more) toxic?

Sometimes, it's easier just to cast your vote and let the chips fall where they may....
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 31, 2020, 04:37:02 PM
My town newspaper that gets mailed to everyone ran this cartoon a few weeks ago.
I thought it was pretty creative.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 31, 2020, 09:34:42 PM
Probably shouldn't discuss this point as I've largely walked away from the board as unreadable for all sorts of reasons......but ostracizing and/or ignoring a whole class of people is part of how we get into these messes. Just because someone is a Trump supporter doesn't mean A) they can't be talked to reasonably or B) that they are right or wrong. I'd make the same argument if someone was on here talking about ignoring Antifa or AOC followers or whatever the equivalent is on the other side. All this tribalism is exactly why the science of things like masks, treatments, etc has become twisted and perverted.

You’re post taking down surgeon is a Scoop masterpiece. That is how I feel about all trumpers.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Mutaman on August 31, 2020, 10:08:43 PM
I'd make the same argument if someone was on here talking about ignoring Antifa or AOC followers or whatever the equivalent is on the other side.

I'd be interested in hearing someone support an argument that there is an "equivalent ... on the other side".
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on August 31, 2020, 11:14:05 PM
Seoul, South Korea 3 story Powerful Banner Ad for Masks:

https://twitter.com/vicjkim/status/1300646503950594048?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 01, 2020, 11:19:06 AM
I'd be interested in hearing someone support an argument that there is an "equivalent ... on the other side".
The media's willingness to make false equivalences has had a disastrous effect on the U.S., IMO.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 01, 2020, 09:20:59 PM
Right, and I knew some unfiltered air was getting out, but like I said - it's the same with a surgical mask.  Scientifically - I don't see the difference, and I'd be interested to see a study on "droplet release" from both kinds of masks.

I will be nice and comply with my work and any other requirements (I mostly wear cloth there anyway - the breath much easier!  Hah.).  But I'm not sure the science is adding up on this one.

Ask and you shall receive. Not damning, but not great.

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0022968

> Overall, the visuals presented here indicate that face shields and masks with exhale valves may not be as effective as regular face masks in restricting the spread of aerosolized droplets.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 02, 2020, 07:39:53 AM
Face shields ans valved masks:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1301006981226999808?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 02, 2020, 12:37:41 PM
Ask and you shall receive. Not damning, but not great.

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0022968

> Overall, the visuals presented here indicate that face shields and masks with exhale valves may not be as effective as regular face masks in restricting the spread of aerosolized droplets.

Agreed (not damning., not great).  The more surprising part was the difference in the 2 surgical masks:

Quote
On the other hand, the second surgical mask (brand “B”), which is shown in Fig. 7 (Multimedia view) displays significantly higher leakage of droplets through the mask material, and does not appear to be as effective as the first surgical mask (brand “A”) in the restricting droplet spread. This indicates that even among commercially available masks, which may appear to be similar superficially, there can be significant underlying differences in the quality and type of materials used for manufacturing the masks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 03, 2020, 09:14:15 PM
Iowa.

https://twitter.com/TheTattooedProf/status/1301700888772435968?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 03, 2020, 11:19:23 PM
At an airport hangar, in Latrobe, Pennsylvania:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1301668168805552128
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 04, 2020, 06:38:32 AM
Remember when the emperor FINALLY started saying all Americans, including his supporters, need to start wearing masks?

That was a heck of a 15 minutes, hey?

Now it's back to Mouth-Breathers R Us. Who will be the next Herman Cain? Who will be the next hundred or thousand Herman Cains?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 04, 2020, 08:30:56 AM
Our effen "leader":

At the rally, Mr. Trump also mocked his Democratic opponent, former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., for wearing a mask, and suggested it was a sign he has a psychological need to feel safe.

“Did you ever see a man who likes to mask as much as him?” Mr. Trump asked the crowd, to laughter, after offering a caveat that people should wash their hands and wear masks in close quarters.

“A lot of times he has it hanging down because it gives him a feeling of security,” Mr. Trump said, bringing his hand to his ear to imitate how Mr. Biden’s mask drapes one side of his face when he takes it off.

“If I was a psychiatrist, I would say this guy has some big issues. I don’t know. Hanging down,” Mr. Trump said. Until Thursday night, Mr. Trump had been more subdued about mask-wearing to prevent the coronavirus. After months of playing down the coronavirus and making fun of people who wore protective masks, the president had to be persuaded to advocate mask-wearing, which top health experts have said is crucial to limiting the spread of Covid-19.


That's funny, because a shrink would have a field day with the Narcissist In Chief.

187K dead Americans on his watch. Millions with medical conditions that might be permanent on his watch. Tens of millions unemployed on his watch.

"They are dying. That's true. It is what it is."

But sure, let's make fun of a leader being a good role model for mask-wearing. No wonder the VAST majority of Americans in every single poll say they trust Biden more on handing the pandemic.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 04, 2020, 08:33:37 AM
A new USA Today poll today shows 2/3 of Americans will be hesitant to get a vaccine.

I know for sure that I will not get the vaccine under trump’s watch.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 04, 2020, 08:36:25 AM
Remember when the emperor FINALLY started saying all Americans, including his supporters, need to start wearing masks?

That was a heck of a 15 minutes, hey?

Now it's back to Mouth-Breathers R Us. Who will be the next Herman Cain? Who will be the next hundred or thousand Herman Cains?

I think he just meant that you don’t need a mask when you vote from home by mail.

He supports them when you go to the polls to cast your second ballot.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 04, 2020, 08:48:37 AM
A new USA Today poll today shows 2/3 of Americans will be hesitant to get a vaccine.

I know for sure that I will not get the vaccine under trump’s watch.

 ::)

If the scientists say it is safe and effective and you don't get it because of Trump, maybe it is time for some self reflection.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 04, 2020, 08:49:26 AM
::)

If the scientists say it is safe and effective and you don't get it because of Trump, maybe it is time for some self reflection.


Yeah.  Follow the science...until it conflicts with my political beliefs.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 04, 2020, 09:12:06 AM
::)

If the scientists say it is safe and effective and you don't get it because of Trump, maybe it is time for some self reflection.

Hahn (head of the FDA) gained some points with me when he walked back his plasma therapy comments.

The FDA has sped up the timeline for a COVID vaccine compared to normal drug approval, and as long as I can trust Hahn then it doesn't matter whatever the rest of the administration is getting themselves into.

To come to Jockey's defense, though, accelerated medicine rollouts when under tremendous pressure by anti-science politians to get something done by the election cycle doesn't engender confidence. I do not believe that the larger administration cares about the health and wellbeing of Americans.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 04, 2020, 02:32:11 PM
::)

If the scientists say it is safe and effective and you don't get it because of Trump, maybe it is time for some self reflection.


You know as well as anyone that trump controls both the CDC and FDA and they say whatever trump tells them to say. It hasn't even been a week since the CDC said it is no longer necessary to get tested if you have been exposed to Covid. If you fall for THAT science, then maybe you will fall for anything.

If you are ready to put up with the same consequences as when Pres. Ford rushed a vaccine IN AN ELECTION YEAR, then go for it. More people died from taking the vaccine (the scientists, under pressure from the White House, said it was safe) than from the Swine flu that the vaccine was supposed to prevent.

Until then, I WILL trust real science. I WILL NOT trust science that is pushed out by a lying, science denier who manipulates any data he receives to glorify himself.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 04, 2020, 03:29:50 PM
I trust Dr. Murphy who has been appearing each morning on WGN -tv on their morning news, he is an expert in infectious diseases from Northwestern and he said this week that he was ‘done’ with the CDC. When he says it’s ok, then I will happily line up.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 04, 2020, 03:36:11 PM

You know as well as anyone that trump controls both the CDC and FDA and they say whatever trump tells them to say. It hasn't even been a week since the CDC said it is no longer necessary to get tested if you have been exposed to Covid. If you fall for THAT science, then maybe you will fall for anything.

If you are ready to put up with the same consequences as when Pres. Ford rushed a vaccine IN AN ELECTION YEAR, then go for it. More people died from taking the vaccine (the scientists, under pressure from the White House, said it was safe) than from the Swine flu that the vaccine was supposed to prevent.

Until then, I WILL trust real science. I WILL NOT trust science that is pushed out by a lying, science denier who manipulates any data he receives to glorify himself.

Right.  And I know who to trust and who to not trust.  Don't worry about me.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 04, 2020, 04:43:55 PM
None of youse knows squat.

When Dr. MyPillow Guy gives the thumbs up, it’s time to rock and roll!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 04, 2020, 05:10:17 PM
None of youse knows squat.

When Dr. MyPillow Guy gives the thumbs up, it’s time to rock and roll!
He's fine for general medical advice, but when taking something as serious as a vaccine into consideration I prefer to rely on a specialist like Dr. Stella.
(https://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/styles/cd_large/public/headlines/immanuel.jpg?itok=roePfENd)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 04, 2020, 06:27:41 PM
He's fine for general medical advice, but when taking something as serious as a vaccine into consideration I prefer to rely on a specialist like Dr. Stella.

Oh come on, why bring that up. I had already forgotten about Trump's crack team of experts.

I love that they're all wearing brand new lab coats. They're not even trying to be clever with the gift, just like the Nigerian prince that's about to wire me my money.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 04, 2020, 06:34:34 PM
For anyone who doesn't think American officials wouldn't rush a vaccine approval decision without knowing the full scope of the risks, a little history lesson:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/opinion/coronavirus-vaccine-trump.html?searchResultPosition=5

As it turned out, the H1N1 strain never made it out of Fort Dix, where only one Army recruit died. And, as it also turned out, this swine flu was not nearly as virulent as the 1918 influenza.

But fast-tracking the vaccine for broad distribution among the public carried risks. Of the 45 million vaccinated against the swine flu, an estimated 450 people developed the paralyzing syndrome Guillain-Barré and of those, more than 30 died. The National Academy of Medicine subsequently concluded that people who received the 1976 swine flu vaccine had an increased risk for developing Guillain-Barré.

The emergence of Guillain-Barré led the government to suspend and effectively end its mass vaccination effort in December.


----------------

I have always been very proactive in getting vaccinated, but in this case, I will get a vaccine only after it has been approved by both the FDA and the EMA (EU drug approval agency).
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 04, 2020, 09:30:06 PM
None of youse knows squat.

When Dr. MyPillow Guy gives the thumbs up, it’s time to rock and roll!

This one just made my night!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 06, 2020, 07:49:24 AM
The Band and their instrument's are masked:

https://twitter.com/geoff_calkins/status/1302395854490406917?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 06, 2020, 12:05:32 PM
See what happens when you don't use social distancing?

Several boats sink at pro-Trump parade in Texas

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/B08B/production/_114259154_c51ca830-e816-4d8f-84fd-ec9374a22943.jpg)

Metaphor of the Year!

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54045115
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 06, 2020, 02:06:49 PM

Metaphor of the Year!



That was the first thing I thought when I saw the story this morning. Not the we needed a metaphor, but sometimes it's right there, staring you in the face.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 06, 2020, 02:33:51 PM
See what happens when you don't use social distancing?

Several boats sink at pro-Trump parade in Texas

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/B08B/production/_114259154_c51ca830-e816-4d8f-84fd-ec9374a22943.jpg)

Metaphor of the Year!

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54045115

Sinking   How appropriate of anything Trumpy
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 06, 2020, 02:55:23 PM
Authorities say the choppy water was likely caused by the large number of vessels moving closely together

There were no reports of anybody dying or even getting injured, so it's just a plain ol' hilarious story, featuring the Metaphor of the Year.

I chuckle every time I think about it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: bananahammock on September 06, 2020, 03:19:58 PM
Starting to wonder how much mask wearing helps. Plenty of other variables but not the drop in positive cases I’d hoped for in WI.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on September 06, 2020, 05:03:59 PM
Starting to wonder how much mask wearing helps. Plenty of other variables but not the drop in positive cases I’d hoped for in WI.

I don’t know that things have changed much even with the mandate. Feels like those who weren’t wearing masks still aren’t. Sure if they go into a store, but I’m guessing in most social situations people aren’t.

Plus, you got the places that aren’t enforcing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 06, 2020, 05:33:39 PM
I don’t know that things have changed much even with the mandate. Feels like those who weren’t wearing masks still aren’t. Sure if they go into a store, but I’m guessing in most social situations people aren’t.

Plus, you got the places that aren’t enforcing.


Yep. You don’t have to look very hard to find pictures of large crowds without masks at social events. I’m guessing many people only wear masks inside businesses because they have to, and take them off the moment they leave.

Goes to show that you can’t mandate common sense.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 06, 2020, 05:50:24 PM
Authorities say the choppy water was likely caused by the large number of vessels moving closely together
Fake news!

It was a stealth strike by the Antifa Naval Force firing bags of soup.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 06, 2020, 08:51:29 PM
Masks, not Masts, gentlemen... 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 06, 2020, 10:21:12 PM
Masks, not Masts, gentlemen...

I laughed.

But seriously, I was looking at mask’s cousin - social distancing.

That it also was the Metaphor of the Year was just a bonus!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Keithtisbarf on September 06, 2020, 11:44:24 PM
Sinking   How appropriate of anything Trumpy

The Battle of Dumbkirk
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 08, 2020, 10:20:11 AM
At yesterday's Narcissistic Propaganda Fest that he called a press conference, President Pandemic refused to take a question from a reporter wearing a mask, and later complimented a different reporter who wasn't wearing a mask.

Yes, he has done a wonderful job leading the country during the pandemic.

"I'll be right eventually."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 08, 2020, 10:58:46 AM
3 time Olympic Gold Medalist Kerri Walsh Jennings:

Spoiler alert .....sigh.
Spoiler alert Brett Favre cameo.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/olympian-kerri-walsh-jennings-no-mask-store-coronavirus-protest/2359141/?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_BAYBrand&amp&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 08, 2020, 11:29:20 AM
3 time Olympic Gold Medalist Kerri Walsh Jennings:

Spoiler alert .....sigh.
Spoiler alert Brett Favre cameo.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/olympian-kerri-walsh-jennings-no-mask-store-coronavirus-protest/2359141/?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_BAYBrand&amp&__twitter_impression=true

Wow!! She is really brave.

And ignorant.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 11, 2020, 09:03:08 AM
Michigan:

Journalist covering Trump rally is escorted out by Trump security because she sent this tweet showing that there were not many masks in the crowd. They literally tracked her down from social media and escorted her out.

https://twitter.com/michpoligal/status/1304192444465123339?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 11, 2020, 10:26:35 AM
Some people answer on video at DT rally why they are not wearing a mask:

https://twitter.com/donie/status/1304425414568411137?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 11, 2020, 10:42:34 AM
Some people answer on video at DT rally why they are not wearing a mask:

https://twitter.com/donie/status/1304425414568411137?s=19

Death cult.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 14, 2020, 01:21:43 PM
St. George, Utah:

https://twitter.com/jared_carrabis/status/1305521504365535232
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: naginiF on September 14, 2020, 01:45:22 PM
St. George, Utah:

https://twitter.com/jared_carrabis/status/1305521504365535232
We're screwed! I don't know what part of that is more depressing (paraphrased):
- "George Floyd couldn't breath and he died, now we have to wear masks and can't breath"
- "You know why I don't like masks? Most child molesters like them!"
- the 'I identify as a fresh air breather' t-shirts
- 'all agreed that masks are bad for children's health

I'm sure I'm missing some.

We spent a little over 2 weeks in that area this summer, stayed NE of Zion so opposite of St. George, and you could 100% tell the tourists from the locals - our provisioning trip to the closest Wal-Mart traumatized the kids.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 14, 2020, 01:48:35 PM
St. George, Utah:

https://twitter.com/jared_carrabis/status/1305521504365535232


You just can't fake that kind of stupid.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 14, 2020, 01:58:18 PM
We're screwed! I don't know what part of that is more depressing (paraphrased):
- "George Floyd couldn't breath and he died, now we have to wear masks and can't breath"
- "You know why I don't like masks? Most child molesters like them!"
- the 'I identify as a fresh air breather' t-shirts
- 'all agreed that masks are bad for children's health

I'm sure I'm missing some.

We spent a little over 2 weeks in that area this summer, stayed NE of Zion so opposite of St. George, and you could 100% tell the tourists from the locals - our provisioning trip to the closest Wal-Mart traumatized the kids.

The most concerning part for me is that it is an obligation of ABC 4 News in Utah to separate fact from fiction instead of just presenting the piece as it is. While many people may believe it is SNL parity, it’s real life, and needs a disclaimer from the television station.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 14, 2020, 02:08:09 PM
You know the brainwashing is working when a young boy says "The flu kills more people".  Sigh.  Depressing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 14, 2020, 02:19:10 PM
That video was very depressing.
In my thirty years as a public defender, I represented accused child molesters. Not one case involved a mask.
What is so discouraging to me is that with so many of those delusional people around, and with no one wanting to actually enforce mask mandates, we are letting them control the response. Which means we are never getting out of this.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 14, 2020, 02:27:04 PM
St. George, Utah:

https://twitter.com/jared_carrabis/status/1305521504365535232

Death cult.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 14, 2020, 02:32:03 PM
I wonder where they get it from. Hmm...leaders lead. This short clip is from today, just after the President is informed that the vast majority of Forest land in California is Federal, and, when the discussion switches to Science and Climate Change:



https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1305580235941974017
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on September 14, 2020, 02:55:51 PM
You know the brainwashing is working when a young boy says "The flu kills more people".  Sigh.  Depressing.

Stupidity kills more people.  Depressing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 14, 2020, 03:17:59 PM
We're screwed! I don't know what part of that is more depressing (paraphrased):
- "George Floyd couldn't breath and he died, now we have to wear masks and can't breath"
- "You know why I don't like masks? Most child molesters like them!"
- the 'I identify as a fresh air breather' t-shirts
- 'all agreed that masks are bad for children's health

I'm sure I'm missing some.

We spent a little over 2 weeks in that area this summer, stayed NE of Zion so opposite of St. George, and you could 100% tell the tourists from the locals - our provisioning trip to the closest Wal-Mart traumatized the kids.

The way to combat mask wearing child molesters and child sex trafficking is to...checks notes...hire them to run your state campaigns in Kentucky and Oklahoma?

https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/1148992332680896520

Wear a mask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 14, 2020, 04:44:06 PM
In comparison to the other challenges posed by the virus, wearing a mask is one of the easiest and most innocuous.

People can deal with job losses, food insecurity, long lines for testing, stay at home orders, business closures, restaurant and bar closures, and other restrictions…but wearing a simple mask is a bridge too far?

 ::)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on September 14, 2020, 05:50:07 PM
We're screwed! I don't know what part of that is more depressing (paraphrased):
- "George Floyd couldn't breath and he died, now we have to wear masks and can't breath"
- "You know why I don't like masks? Most child molesters like them!"
- the 'I identify as a fresh air breather' t-shirts
- 'all agreed that masks are bad for children's health

I'm sure I'm missing some.

We spent a little over 2 weeks in that area this summer, stayed NE of Zion so opposite of St. George, and you could 100% tell the tourists from the locals - our provisioning trip to the closest Wal-Mart traumatized the kids.

Straight outta Qanon
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 14, 2020, 05:56:34 PM
I wonder where they get it from. Hmm...leaders lead. This short clip is from today, just after the President is informed that the vast majority of Forest land in California is Federal, and, when the discussion switches to Science and Climate Change:



https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1305580235941974017

Trump on climate change: "It'll start getting cooler. You just watch ... I don't think science knows, actually."

I think it is gonna happen the same day that Covid “just disappears”.

You can’t make up this kind of stupid.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 14, 2020, 06:15:13 PM

"Local authorities in Indonesia ordered eight people who broke the country’s face mask laws to dig graves for COVID-19 victims, according to a report."


https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/anti-maskers-forced-to-dig-graves-for-covid-19-victims-in-indonesia/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 14, 2020, 06:23:26 PM
Paul Rudd Public Service Anouncement to wear a mask, is gold:

https://twitter.com/seanseaevans/status/1305597203688435714?s=09
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mu_hilltopper on September 14, 2020, 06:35:52 PM
- "George Floyd couldn't breath and he died, now we have to wear masks and can't breath"
- "You know why I don't like masks? Most child molesters like them!"

Being forced to wear masks also reminds me of internment camps and the holocaust.  Surprised they didn't mention that.

So, so doomed. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 14, 2020, 06:49:11 PM
I’m trying to organize a mass rally against the government seat belt mandate. I can’t get the sheep to stand up with me for their god given freedom to be free of government oppression.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 14, 2020, 08:33:51 PM
Gotta love the my body my choice sign one lady's holding... just assuming some stuff from demographic trends here but I don't think she sees the irony.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 14, 2020, 08:44:44 PM
Being forced to wear masks also reminds me of internment camps and the holocaust.  Surprised they didn't mention that.

So, so doomed.
40 years of intentionally making people dumb through talk radio is really paying dividends.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 14, 2020, 08:53:10 PM
Gotta love the my body my choice sign one lady's holding... just assuming some stuff from demographic trends here but I don't think she sees the irony.

Seems to be a popular meme among people too dumb to understand that you wear a mask to protect others, not yourself.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 14, 2020, 09:33:42 PM
Trump on climate change: "It'll start getting cooler. You just watch ... I don't think science knows, actually."

I think it is gonna happen the same day that Covid “just disappears”.


Like a miracle.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on September 15, 2020, 01:12:35 PM
You know the brainwashing is working when a young boy says "The flu kills more people".  Sigh.  Depressing.

That wasn't brainwashing, that was a kid 100% parroting what his parents told him to say cause he'd be on camera.  That was the same delivery as when you tell a kid to go up to someone and say "thank you for the birthday gift, i really liked it"
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 15, 2020, 01:50:21 PM
That wasn't brainwashing, that was a kid 100% parroting what his parents told him to say cause he'd be on camera.  That was the same delivery as when you tell a kid to go up to someone and say "thank you for the birthday gift, i really liked it"


In the moment, you are right - he was just parroting his parents.

But what do think he will say if the cameras are off and he's chatting with friends online? I'm gonna guess it'd be the same thing...and he would believe it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 15, 2020, 02:45:54 PM
That wasn't brainwashing, that was a kid 100% parroting what his parents told him to say cause he'd be on camera.  That was the same delivery as when you tell a kid to go up to someone and say "thank you for the birthday gift, i really liked it"

Parenting is essentially brainwashing (mostly in a good way!), But even if it's just parroting, it's not like he is learning differently or knows differently.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 15, 2020, 11:37:41 PM
At his town hall tonight, trump trashed wearing masks and blamed Biden for not issuing a national mandate for their usage.


Yup.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on September 16, 2020, 08:03:53 AM

A few weeks ago, I had a waiter in Utah tell me that more people have died of abortions than Covid-19.

Yikes. Not exactly polite dinner conversation.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 16, 2020, 08:12:29 AM
A few weeks ago, I had a waiter in Utah tell me that more people have died of abortions than Covid-19.

Yikes. Not exactly polite dinner conversation.

(https://i.gifer.com/7x4x.gif)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 16, 2020, 08:16:52 AM
A few weeks ago, I had a waiter in Utah tell me that more people have died of abortions than Covid-19.

Yikes. Not exactly polite dinner conversation.

Moms or babies?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 16, 2020, 01:14:59 PM
Robert Redfield (head of CDC) to the Senate committee today:

"...I might even go so far as to say that this facemask is more guaranteed to protect me against COVID than when I take COVID vaccine."

The inconsistency of messaging of this administration is so frustrating and maddening.  Plus now I am sure months down the road, no one will read into the vaccine side of this attempt at stressing importance and misinterpret its meaning.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 17, 2020, 07:50:06 AM
Robert Redfield (head of CDC) to the Senate committee today:

"...I might even go so far as to say that this facemask is more guaranteed to protect me against COVID than when I take COVID vaccine."

The inconsistency of messaging of this administration is so frustrating and maddening.  Plus now I am sure months down the road, no one will read into the vaccine side of this attempt at stressing importance and misinterpret its meaning.

I get what he is trying to say, but that sounds very off the cuff.  Anyone running messaging for the CDC probably cringed when he said that.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 17, 2020, 12:59:53 PM
The United States Postal Service drafted an ambitious proposal in April to send a pack of five face masks to every residential address in the U.S. before trump killed the idea, according to an analysis by the Washington Post of documents acquired by the watchdog organization American Oversight.


I keep telling you guys he is intentionally killing people. Negligent manslaughter.

That is what catastrophic leadership has done to America. The worst crisis leadership in our history.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 17, 2020, 02:53:01 PM
The United States Postal Service drafted an ambitious proposal in April to send a pack of five face masks to every residential address in the U.S. before trump killed the idea, according to an analysis by the Washington Post of documents acquired by the watchdog organization American Oversight.


I keep telling you guys he is intentionally killing people. Negligent manslaughter.

That is what catastrophic leadership has done to America. The worst crisis leadership in our history.

“There was concern that households receiving masks might create a concern or panic.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/09/17/usps-trump-coronavirus-amazon-foia/#click=https://t.co/pYABjdzTCM
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on September 17, 2020, 03:07:23 PM
“There was concern that households receiving masks might create a concern or panic.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/09/17/usps-trump-coronavirus-amazon-foia/#click=https://t.co/pYABjdzTCM

I only skimmed the article, but didn’t we have barely enough masks for healthcare professionals at that time? Did we have that many masks to distribute to households?

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 17, 2020, 03:14:09 PM
I only skimmed the article, but didn’t we have barely enough masks for healthcare professionals at that time? Did we have that many masks to distribute to households?


There weren't enough N95 masks...but general cloth masks have always been available (or could be quickly made).
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 17, 2020, 03:37:25 PM
“There was concern that households receiving masks might create a concern or panic.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/09/17/usps-trump-coronavirus-amazon-foia/#click=https://t.co/pYABjdzTCM


I guess you shouldn't yell fire in a theater that is actually on fire because you could create panic.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GB Warrior on September 17, 2020, 07:12:50 PM

I guess you shouldn't yell fire in a theater that is actually on fire because you could create panic.

Obviously entirely unsurprising, but this story made me as mad as any that's come out on the pandemic.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 17, 2020, 07:56:40 PM
The United States Postal Service drafted an ambitious proposal in April to send a pack of five face masks to every residential address in the U.S. before trump killed the idea, according to an analysis by the Washington Post of documents acquired by the watchdog organization American Oversight.


I keep telling you guys he is intentionally killing people. Negligent manslaughter.

That is what catastrophic leadership has done to America. The worst crisis leadership in our history.

This guy needs a timeout...quickly please
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on September 17, 2020, 08:04:07 PM
In some countries , they'd cut your balls off for idiotic statements like this. We have, thus far, freedom of speech. God bless America, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 17, 2020, 08:04:19 PM
This guy needs a timeout...quickly please

He’s made the Covid board unreadable.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 17, 2020, 08:09:59 PM
He’s made the Covid board unreadable.


Hey hey sully, I’m taking a screen shot of this to remind me that you and I actually have something in common and agree👍🕺🏾
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 17, 2020, 08:12:57 PM
He’s made the Covid board unreadable.

Simple question.

Have trump’s lies and his refusal to push for masks caused people to die of Covid?

A simple yes or no will do.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 17, 2020, 08:19:37 PM
Simple question.

Have trump’s lies and his refusal to push for masks caused people to die of Covid?

A simple yes or no will do.

Yes.

But you know what you’re saying and why you are saying it. Using this board to backdoor your political mantra makes this unreadable.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 17, 2020, 08:47:14 PM
He’s made the Covid board unreadable.

I actually login just to read his insanity, comical at this point....and what’s with Biden saying yesterday he’d sign an EO mandating masks and then tonight he says he can’t!?!?!?  Why the flip flopping
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Mutaman on September 18, 2020, 12:12:55 AM
..and what’s with Biden saying yesterday he’d sign an EO mandating masks and then tonight he says he can’t!?!?!?  Why the flip flopping

links ?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on September 18, 2020, 02:00:33 AM
I actually login just to read his insanity, comical at this point....and what’s with Biden saying yesterday he’d sign an EO mandating masks and then tonight he says he can’t!?!?!?  Why the flip flopping
You're not far behind
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on September 18, 2020, 07:26:51 AM
Actually far ahead.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on September 18, 2020, 08:08:01 AM
Problem solved:

https://realchilimilwaukee.square.site/product/warrior-food-face-mask-/168?fbclid=IwAR2-0SK6mOxWMimfSuGReM000KPzbytj4sOfCOPnHj4U9QEfZ2hHVYbdiY4
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 18, 2020, 08:21:50 AM
Problem solved:

https://realchilimilwaukee.square.site/product/warrior-food-face-mask-/168?fbclid=IwAR2-0SK6mOxWMimfSuGReM000KPzbytj4sOfCOPnHj4U9QEfZ2hHVYbdiY4

Perfect!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 18, 2020, 08:32:04 AM
Idaho:

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1306918332185088015?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on September 18, 2020, 08:36:09 AM
Jamie must have left early.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 18, 2020, 08:37:53 AM
You're not far behind

🤙
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 18, 2020, 11:18:03 AM
I actually login just to read his insanity, comical at this point....and what’s with Biden saying yesterday he’d sign an EO mandating masks and then tonight he says he can’t!?!?!?  Why the flip flopping
Russian disinformation troll says what?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 18, 2020, 11:26:22 AM
From the article Zig posted in the main thread:

https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/30430384e5a5
Quote
A clear example of the benefits of masks is a recent outbreak in South Korea, in which one woman at a Starbucks infected 27 other customers — whom officials assume were not wearing masks because they were eating and drinking — but none of the employees, all of whom were masked the entire time.

So, I hadn't seen this yet, but also confirms a myth that started early "mask are to protect others, they do little to protect you". I've repeated those words, though usually modified the phrase  to say "mostly to protect others".  I always suspected official guidance was underplaying how much a mask could also protect *you* from others. 

Healthcare professionals are wearing masks to protect themselves from getting sick, why wouldn't it magically work for the common public too? Of course, type of mask, fit, and handling are important.  So it's ignorant to say they don't protect you at all, but it's also foolish to assume they provide 100% protection.

/rant
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 18, 2020, 12:32:12 PM
Russian disinformation troll says what?

I guess I’ll ask you again....can you point to a piece of disinformation from that post.  Was it a bad choice in the source of the link absolutely but I posted another link shortly after from the actual study.  The information in the RT link was consistent and accurate from the findings of the study. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: naginiF on September 18, 2020, 01:29:55 PM
I guess I’ll ask you again....can you point to a piece of disinformation from that post.  Was it a bad choice in the source of the link absolutely but I posted another link shortly after from the actual study.  The information in the RT link was consistent and accurate from the findings of the study.
Do you even know if TSmith holds the appropriate socioeconomic position to be allowed to post? I'd assume you'd want to validate that before you acknowledge his right to be here.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 18, 2020, 01:59:04 PM
Do you even know if TSmith holds the appropriate socioeconomic position to be allowed to post? I'd assume you'd want to validate that before you acknowledge his right to be here.

WTF??
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 18, 2020, 02:07:12 PM
Herman Cain’s team and family:

“It’s time for the obsessive mask wearing to wear off.”

https://twitter.com/thehermancain/status/1307017174188351488
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 18, 2020, 02:23:03 PM
Homeland Security, Atlanta, GA, Chipotle:

https://twitter.com/charlesbethea/status/1306997119157444610?s=19

https://twitter.com/charlesbethea/status/1307000684248805376?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: naginiF on September 18, 2020, 02:24:51 PM
WTF??
My mistake, confused you with ElonMusk. Sorry
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on September 18, 2020, 02:29:32 PM
Herman Cain’s team and family:

“It’s time for the obsessive mask wearing to wear off.”

https://twitter.com/thehermancain/status/1307017174188351488

Well, it isn't his problem anymore.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 18, 2020, 04:09:38 PM
My mistake, confused you with ElonMusk. Sorry
👍👍
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 18, 2020, 05:52:54 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/anti-mask-demonstrator-ejected-disney-211712646.html

So this conspiracy nut was not only maskless at Disney World, but misquoted A Bug’s Life..
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GB Warrior on September 18, 2020, 06:30:23 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/anti-mask-demonstrator-ejected-disney-211712646.html

So this conspiracy nut was not only maskless at Disney World, but misquoted A Bug’s Life..

In his defense I try to forget that movie exists
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 23, 2020, 06:23:17 PM
San Antonio, Texas.

Teacher fired for declining to stop wearing Black Lives Matter Mask:

https://www.10tv.com/amp/article/news/national/former-charter-school-teacher-fired-after-declining-to-stop-wearing-black-lives-matter-mask/273-3c42e74a-1572-444e-a798-68e7b541e0a4?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 23, 2020, 06:52:54 PM
"Despite being told not to wear the mask more than once, White continued doing so, stressing she’s committed to the cause surrounding Black Lives Matter."

"“It was really stressful because I have a financial obligation to help support my family,” White said."


Well I mean cmon...

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 23, 2020, 08:08:29 PM
Well, there's a lawsuit coming...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 23, 2020, 10:00:49 PM
Meanwhile in North Dakota....

https://www.inforum.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6668415-Why-some-North-Dakotans-wont-wear-masks

A group known as the North Dakota Freedom Fighters recently changed its name to North Dakota Freedom Defenders online. With about 1,900 members, the group’s goal is to discuss and carry out actions they can take as citizens to defend their freedoms, according to the group's Facebook page.

Julie Neidlinger, a freelance artist and author, is listed as an administrator of North Dakota Freedom Defenders. In an email response to questions, Neidlinger said six months of mask wearing has done little to slow the spread of the virus.


——————

Shocking that they are leading the country in cases per capita over the past seven days…and pulling away.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 24, 2020, 06:36:47 AM
Meanwhile in North Dakota....

https://www.inforum.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6668415-Why-some-North-Dakotans-wont-wear-masks

A group known as the North Dakota Freedom Fighters recently changed its name to North Dakota Freedom Defenders online. With about 1,900 members, the group’s goal is to discuss and carry out actions they can take as citizens to defend their freedoms, according to the group's Facebook page.

Julie Neidlinger, a freelance artist and author, is listed as an administrator of North Dakota Freedom Defenders. In an email response to questions, Neidlinger said six months of mask wearing has done little to slow the spread of the virus.


——————

Shocking that they are leading the country in cases per capita over the past seven days…and pulling away.

"six months"

I bet this guy takes himself seriously.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 29, 2020, 07:53:50 PM
Or that Wisconsin is catching up. Religious freedom? Yup.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/west/news/brookfield/2020/09/29/federal-court-rules-favor-brookfield-resident-lawsuit/3561068001/
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on September 29, 2020, 07:57:42 PM
Or that Wisconsin is catching up. Religious freedom? Yup.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/west/news/brookfield/2020/09/29/federal-court-rules-favor-brookfield-resident-lawsuit/3561068001/

Wow, she's quite the bigot

> After being told by school board president Scott Wheeler that defamatory comments should be avoided, Anderson directly addressed board member Hassan, who is Muslim.

> “This is not defamatory,” Anderson said. “I’m stating facts. You’re a leader of the Islamic community, are you not? My kids are Christians. They are not subject to face coverings. Christian children should not be forced to wear face coverings any more than children who are Islamic or Muslim should be forced to — as you’ve put it — be subject to the American style of sexualization of children that have to wear less clothing than you’re comfortable with your children wearing.”
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 29, 2020, 09:10:47 PM
Wow, she's quite the bigot

> After being told by school board president Scott Wheeler that defamatory comments should be avoided, Anderson directly addressed board member Hassan, who is Muslim.

> “This is not defamatory,” Anderson said. “I’m stating facts. You’re a leader of the Islamic community, are you not? My kids are Christians. They are not subject to face coverings. Christian children should not be forced to wear face coverings any more than children who are Islamic or Muslim should be forced to — as you’ve put it — be subject to the American style of sexualization of children that have to wear less clothing than you’re comfortable with your children wearing.”


Unbelievable. And enough people share similar opinions about masks to stretch this thing straight through to next spring, with no significant reprieve. Any sense of community and the common good is dying in this country, replaced by me, me, me.... :(
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 29, 2020, 09:47:17 PM
Cleveland, Ohio


https://twitter.com/tylerpager/status/1311109824189534208
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on September 30, 2020, 07:46:26 AM
Cleveland, Ohio


https://twitter.com/tylerpager/status/1311109824189534208
'Murica, land of the free, home of the stupid!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on September 30, 2020, 08:35:18 AM
Cleveland, Ohio


https://twitter.com/tylerpager/status/1311109824189534208

If it's a requirement of that facility, shouldn't they have been forced to leave?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on September 30, 2020, 08:46:52 AM
If it's a requirement of that facility, shouldn't they have been forced to leave?

Yes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 30, 2020, 08:46:58 AM
If it's a requirement of that facility, shouldn't they have been forced to leave?


Ideally, yes; practically speaking, hard to say.

Mayo Clinic took a lot of crap earlier for allowing Pence in despite his refusal to wear a mask. And while critics understandably said 'they should have just kicked him out,' the reality is that HHS holds a lot of power over healthcare entities. Anything from research funding to threats of costly site visits and more. Even if the entity had done nothing wrong and might ultimately prevail, the administration can cause nightmarish and costly problems out of spite. Under most administrations, I wouldn't compromise safety over a fear of spiteful reprisals. Under this one, I might.

So should Cleveland Clinic handled it differently? Ideally, yes; practically speaking, hard to say....
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 30, 2020, 10:55:18 PM
ahhh, this is good stuff.  you can find this conversation just about anywhere, but cnn.  the sad thing is, they aren't laughing WITH you


"The two officials were preparing to take part in a news conference in Doylestown, Pennsylvania, Tuesday, when Wolf remarked to Ullman that he would be removing his mask when speaking onstage. At the time, Ullman was standing near the microphone with her mask still on.

"So Wendy, I'm gonna take — I'm gonna take my mask off when I speak," Wolf is heard saying.

Ullman then walks toward Wolf and off camera, responding, "I will as well, just, I'm waiting so that we can do a little political theater."

Wolf replies, "OK," as the two officials share a laugh and Ullman walks back toward the podium. She then adds for clarification: "So that it's on camera."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq_I0F8iBOs
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on September 30, 2020, 11:22:52 PM
ahhh, this is good stuff.  you can find this conversation just about anywhere, but cnn.  the sad thing is, they aren't laughing WITH you


"The two officials were preparing to take part in a news conference in Doylestown, Pennsylvania, Tuesday, when Wolf remarked to Ullman that he would be removing his mask when speaking onstage. At the time, Ullman was standing near the microphone with her mask still on.

"So Wendy, I'm gonna take — I'm gonna take my mask off when I speak," Wolf is heard saying.

Ullman then walks toward Wolf and off camera, responding, "I will as well, just, I'm waiting so that we can do a little political theater."

Wolf replies, "OK," as the two officials share a laugh and Ullman walks back toward the podium. She then adds for clarification: "So that it's on camera."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq_I0F8iBOs


The more people see their leaders wearing masks (call it ‘political theater‘ or ‘leading by example‘), the more likely they will take masks seriously.

Morons who are afraid to wear masks in public are the ones who send the wrong message.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 01, 2020, 05:59:57 AM

The more people see their leaders wearing masks (call it ‘political theater‘ or ‘leading by example‘), the more likely they will take masks seriously.

Morons who are afraid to wear masks in public are the ones who send the wrong message.

  sir, i don't think it is a "fear" of wearing masks in public.  and "it" is being shared by our "leaders" too.  eyn'a nance and claire? 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 01, 2020, 07:40:52 AM
  sir, i don't think it is a "fear" of wearing masks in public.  and "it" is being shared by our "leaders" too.  eyn'a nance and claire?

Okay, it's not fear, then what is it?  The inability to give a crap about your fellow man?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 01, 2020, 08:09:53 AM
Okay, it's not fear, then what is it?  The inability to give a crap about your fellow man?

Spreading a deadly disease to own the libs.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 01, 2020, 08:29:47 AM
It's very obvious that political and government officials are wearing maks while giving interviews in certain situations where it isn't actually necessary.  No idea why those people should be ridiculed.  It's called leading by example.

Better than openly defying public health orders instead right?

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-family-members-not-wear-masks-during-debate-joe-biden-2020-9
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 01, 2020, 08:45:23 AM
  sir, i don't think it is a "fear" of wearing masks in public.  and "it" is being shared by our "leaders" too.  eyn'a nance and claire?

Big win!  Congrats!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 01, 2020, 08:53:47 AM
  sir, i don't think it is a "fear" of wearing masks in public.  and "it" is being shared by our "leaders" too.  eyn'a nance and claire?


Fear of being seen as weak, stubbornness, stupidity, whatever. Whatever it is, anything our leaders can do to try to change that is a good thing.

They won't change everyone, but if even a few change their behavior because they see leaders wearing masks, it's a good thing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 01, 2020, 09:15:52 AM
Wearing a mask is of course a national health and safety issue, not a political issue. 

Some political leaders have set dangerous personal and professional examples that have cost many lives, caused potential long term health and many economic problems etc...

Why? To obtain, increase, and hold on to personal political power and $$$. It's that simple. Downplaying the virus, and manufacturing reasons against it, preys upon those particular voters fears to join them. It works for them with certain voters. To many rationale observers it is unforgivable because they know better and have since early this year.

Interestingly enough a possibly more effective strategy would have been to listen to science, data, experts about the virus, and change and adjust accordingly as needed, and to be aggressive early, reacting to it. Once they picked the original strategy, they decided to stick with it until the end.

These leaders are people with better personal access to better healthcare, tests, safer environments etc...as opposed to the general public, and decisions have been made based on what will help their individual and collective personal political power and economic gain.

These leaders will wear a mask or even suggest it only in certain few specifically chosen moments while much of the time not doing so.

The physical, mental, emotional health and the economic well being of others isn't of interest to them. For some people this is not okay at all, for some others it is okay because these voters don't care about others either, and for some others these voters don't know any better and they are easily duped by their tribal leaders.

Wearing a mask is an easy, simple inconvenient thing to do to help others and yourself. Nobody likes masks, nobody wants to wear a mask. But it is a very simple, easy thing to do to protect others and yourself.



Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 01, 2020, 09:22:13 AM

Wearing a mask is an easy, simple inconvenient thing to do to help others and yourself. Nobody likes masks, nobody wants to wear a mask. But it is a very simple, easy thing to do to protect others and yourself.



This should have been the beginning, middle and end of the 'debate.' Unfortunately, politics intervened.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 01, 2020, 09:25:07 AM

This should have been the beginning, middle and end of the 'debate.' Unfortunately, politics intervened.

Yep. Unfortunately some of the people with the most political power made a choice to make it a political issue when of course it wasn't and isn't one. They have chosen to do that for all of 2020.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 01, 2020, 09:48:10 AM
I am much better looking with a mask on.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 01, 2020, 05:11:19 PM
Yep. Unfortunately some of the people with the most political power made a choice to make it a political issue when of course it wasn't and isn't one. They have chosen to do that for all of 2020.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/pennsylvania-democrats-caught-on-hot-mic-laughing-about-wearing-masks-as-political-theater%3f_amp=true

Really is unfortunate.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 01, 2020, 05:11:58 PM
Welcome back.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 01, 2020, 05:15:02 PM
Welcome back.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 01, 2020, 05:55:48 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/pennsylvania-democrats-caught-on-hot-mic-laughing-about-wearing-masks-as-political-theater%3f_amp=true

Really is unfortunate.

Literally the first post on this page is about this.  But I knew you wouldn't be able to resist.

For the record, those two are trash bag nobodies that just killed their careers in the Democratic party.  My guess is they'll be Republicans by the end of the week.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 01, 2020, 06:01:34 PM
Literally the first post on this page is about this.  But I knew you wouldn't be able to resist.

For the record, those two are trash bag nobodies that just killed their careers in the Democratic party.  My guess is they'll be Republicans by the end of the week.

Oops, apologies for the repeated information!  I missed rockets post above, sorry that oversight hit home for you.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 01, 2020, 06:47:36 PM
Cornell University Study.

.... ‘Single Largest Driver’ Of Covid-19 Misinformation, Cornell Study Finds.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/10/01/trump-is-single-largest-driver-of-covid-19-misinformation-cornell-study-finds/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Wear a mask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 01, 2020, 07:35:53 PM
Hope Hicks, one of the closest aides to President Trump tested positive for COVID-19, and, is experiencing symptoms. She recently traveled with the President on Air Force One to both the debate and recent Minnesota rally. She was seen often not wearing a mask.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-10-02/trump-aide-hope-hicks-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-infection?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 01, 2020, 07:38:21 PM
Hope Hicks, one of the closest aides to President Trump tested positive for COVID-19, and, is experiencing symptoms. She recently traveled with the President on Air Force One to both the debate and recent Minnesota rally. She was seen often not wearing a mask.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-10-02/trump-aide-hope-hicks-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-infection?__twitter_impression=true

Thoughts and prayers
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 01, 2020, 07:39:34 PM
Hope Hicks, one of the closest aides to President Trump tested positive for COVID-19, and, is experiencing symptoms. She recently traveled with the President on Air Force One to both the debate and recent Minnesota rally. She was seen often not wearing a mask.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-10-02/trump-aide-hope-hicks-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-infection?__twitter_impression=true


You reap what you sow....
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 01, 2020, 08:35:38 PM
Photo, yesterday of COVID-19 positive Hope Hicks boarding Marine one closely with Stephen Miller, Jared Kushner, others. No masks anywhere.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 01, 2020, 09:03:29 PM
I’ve got thoughts, but really not prayers.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 01, 2020, 09:31:55 PM
Thoughts and prayers

I LOVE sarcasm!

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 01, 2020, 09:40:18 PM
I just hope Evers doesn't allow trump to enter our state until he has quarantined.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GB Warrior on October 01, 2020, 09:40:55 PM
Photo, yesterday of COVID-19 positive Hope Hicks boarding Marine one closely with Stephen Miller, Jared Kushner, others. No masks anywhere.

She quarantined on her return back from the MN rally, which means she likely found out while there. It's unknown when she took the positive test.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on October 01, 2020, 10:06:31 PM
Hope Hicks, one of the closest aides to President Trump tested positive for COVID-19, and, is experiencing symptoms. She recently traveled with the President on Air Force One to both the debate and recent Minnesota rally. She was seen often not wearing a mask.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-10-02/trump-aide-hope-hicks-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-infection?__twitter_impression=true

Interesting that Trump does not know his results yet. They typically take the 15 minute tests. Since he doesn't know his results, it would seem that they are needing to run the PCR test.

Not sure if that is because of an inclusive (or positive) in the 15 minute test, or if simply because of such close contact wanting to verify with the more accurate test.

Regardless, Trump won't know if he is COVID free for 2 more weeks. He should be quarantined for the next two weeks. Not quarantining would be grossly inappropriate and dangerous.

The incident around Hicks highlights why. She tested negative many times, until she didn't. She was symptomatic by the time she tested positive. Given that you are contagious for 48 hours before symptoms, that means for 2 days she was testing negative and possibly spreading the disease.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GB Warrior on October 01, 2020, 10:12:25 PM
Interesting that Trump does not know his results yet. They typically take the 15 minute tests. Since he doesn't know his results, it would seem that they are needing to run the PCR test.

Not sure if that is because of an inclusive (or positive) in the 15 minute test, or if simply because of such close contact wanting to verify with the more accurate test.

Regardless, Trump won't know if he is COVID free for 2 more weeks. He should be quarantined for the next two weeks. Not quarantining would be grossly inappropriate and dangerous.

The incident around Hicks highlights why. She tested negative many times, until she didn't. She was symptomatic by the time she tested positive. Given that you are contagious for 48 hours before symptoms, that means for 2 days she was testing negative and possibly spreading the disease.

Which would have included debate night, which she was at, maskless.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 01, 2020, 10:18:29 PM

Regardless, Trump won't know if he is COVID free for 2 more weeks. He should be quarantined for the next two weeks. Not quarantining would be grossly inappropriate and dangerous.

The incident around Hicks highlights why. She tested negative many times, until she didn't. She was symptomatic by the time she tested positive. Given that you are contagious for 48 hours before symptoms, that means for 2 days she was testing negative and possibly spreading the disease.



Unfortunately, we all know that Trump will not quarantine for 2 days, much less 2 weeks.

And you are correct; the Hicks example shows why a negative test is not a panacea for walking around without a mask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 01, 2020, 10:19:56 PM
Tomorrow, Trump is scheduled for an indoor DC Hotel Donor event as well as a rally in Florida.

We'll see if he stays home or if he attends these events.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 01, 2020, 10:26:22 PM
Thoughts and prayers
Nope. Tots and pears for these people at this point.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on October 01, 2020, 10:34:11 PM
I just hope Evers doesn't allow trump to enter our state until he has quarantined.

Lmao at thinking Evers would make a powerful stance against Trump.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 01, 2020, 11:12:34 PM
Wow — looks like Trump is going to quarantine.

Trump quarantining after White House adviser Hope Hicks tests positive for COVID-19

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/5889312002?__twitter_impression=true

Edit: also adding this to the main thread.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 01, 2020, 11:18:22 PM
Interesting that Trump does not know his results yet. They typically take the 15 minute tests. Since he doesn't know his results, it would seem that they are needing to run the PCR test.




My guess would be that he did get the quick test and possibly got a positive? But you or Goo could speak about this better than I. Since the quick tests can give false positives up to 50% of the time, they probably gave him the PCR test and will wait for results.

But this is the trump WH, so it's doubtful we will ever know the truth.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 01, 2020, 11:19:22 PM
Wow — looks like Trump is going to quarantine.

Trump quarantining after White House adviser Hope Hicks tests positive for COVID-19

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/5889312002?__twitter_impression=true

Edit: also adding this to the main thread.

As long as he's taking his HCL everything'll be fine
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 01, 2020, 11:19:29 PM
Lmao at thinking Evers would make a powerful stance against Trump.

I'm not expecting it - just hoping.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 02, 2020, 05:54:45 AM
Well, he and Melania are positive.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 02, 2020, 07:58:02 AM
Tuesday night, Trump in his own words about masks:

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1311119323503747073?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 02, 2020, 09:37:10 AM
October 2nd, 2020.

In an internal email, Trump Campaign staffers are encouraged to ........................................wear a mask.

https://twitter.com/NicoleSganga/status/1312037177786851328?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 02, 2020, 12:11:43 PM
October 2nd, 2020.

In an internal email, Trump Campaign staffers are encouraged to ........................................wear a mask.

https://twitter.com/NicoleSganga/status/1312037177786851328?s=19


A day late and a dollar short for Fat Donny.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 03, 2020, 08:51:11 PM
Sanford Stadium, Athens, Georgia.

Between the hedges:

Georgia v Auburn

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 03, 2020, 09:04:25 PM
Sanford Stadium, Athens, Georgia.

Between the hedges:

Georgia v Auburn


One of the commentators (can’t recall which one) commented that everything looked like “business as usual“ in the bars and restaurants around Athens. Wonderful.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 03, 2020, 09:16:16 PM

One of the commentators (can’t recall which one) commented that everything looked like “business as usual“ in the bars and restaurants around Athens. Wonderful.

Meanwhile, the entire SMU student section was kicked out of their game v Memphis today by police, for failure to wear masks and social distance.


https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/smu-mustangs/2020/10/03/police-kick-out-smu-student-section-mid-game-after-crowd-didnt-adhere-to-mask-wearing-social-distancing-protocols/?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 03, 2020, 10:53:26 PM
Well, at least the president and half his entourage contracting COVID-19 has changed attitudes about wearing masks and social distancing on college campuses.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 05, 2020, 06:17:01 AM

A day late and a dollar short for Fat Donny.

weren't you one those carrying the gas cans in kenosha?  "fat donny's" people want to talk to you
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 05, 2020, 06:21:45 AM
Is that what you learned on Qanon?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GB Warrior on October 05, 2020, 12:39:56 PM
weren't you one those carrying the gas cans in kenosha?  "fat donny's" people want to talk to you

I was carrying soup for my family
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 05, 2020, 02:29:19 PM
weren't you one those carrying the gas cans in kenosha?  "fat donny's" people want to talk to you

Why do you defend a person who attended a fundraiser knowing he was infected with a highly contagious, deadly disease? Why do you defend a selfish turd who had total disregard for his fellow humans -- his supporters, for chrissake -- because he wanted to fleece them for $250K apiece? Why?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 06, 2020, 12:20:31 PM
Jason Kander:

https://twitter.com/JasonKander/status/1313479171381829634?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on October 06, 2020, 12:44:20 PM
Jason Kander:

https://twitter.com/JasonKander/status/1313479171381829634?s=19

Should be more pointing out how dumb Tomi is
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 07, 2020, 08:55:56 AM
Michigan:

https://twitter.com/HillaryScholten/status/1313539207743320065?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on October 07, 2020, 09:31:31 AM
Michigan:

https://twitter.com/HillaryScholten/status/1313539207743320065?s=19

Little curious about what’s on the other side of that. If it’s “Just because she’s wearing one of these.......it doesn’t mean she actually cares about your health,” and goes into things she voted for that is against the interest of public health, I don’t think that’s making fun of her for wearing a mask. Tough to really tell what the message is with half.

However, the messaging of Trump/Pence and crew making fun of Biden/Harris taking extra precautions for debates with people exposed to many positives is head scratching. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like we will get the coming together on masks that we hoped based on Trump having Covid.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 07, 2020, 10:21:27 AM
If I ever run from office, I am going to make fun of my opponent who wears a seatbelt while driving. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 07, 2020, 10:22:50 AM
Trump is anti-mask. Why do people keep thinking he will change?  212,000 dead Americans have not changed his mind. Being hospitalized hasn’t changed his mind.

It ain’t gonna happen.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 07, 2020, 10:41:08 AM
If I ever run from office, I am going to make fun of my opponent who wears a seatbelt while driving.

If I ever run for office, I'm going to make fun of my opponent for cooking chicken before eating it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 07, 2020, 01:41:57 PM
CDC study on masks.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6940e3.htm?s_cid=mm6940e3_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6940e3.htm?s_cid=mm6940e3_w)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 07, 2020, 02:33:16 PM
CDC study on masks.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6940e3.htm?s_cid=mm6940e3_w (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6940e3.htm?s_cid=mm6940e3_w)


Uh oh. Somebody's gonna be mad.

Regarding that somebody, I agree with those who say he will never change his tune on masks. He has made such a big deal about criticizing them that a reversal would require him to admit he was dead wrong...something he will never do. Even on HCQ, he never admitted he made a mistake - he just stopped talking about it. But the topic of masks isn't going to just go away, so if he has to take a position - and he does - he will be anti-mask 'til the end.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 07, 2020, 06:34:14 PM

Uh oh. Somebody's gonna be mad.

Regarding that somebody, I agree with those who say he will never change his tune on masks. He has made such a big deal about criticizing them that a reversal would require him to admit he was dead wrong...something he will never do. Even on HCQ, he never admitted he made a mistake - he just stopped talking about it. But the topic of masks isn't going to just go away, so if he has to take a position - and he does - he will be anti-mask 'til the end.

I'm guessing he'll keep doing what he's been doing.

"I have no problem with masks. People probably should wear them. I have one here (reaches into pocket and pulls out) and I wear it when I think I should. But you know, even the doctors and scientists were saying for a long time that masks actually are bad. So there's been a lot of different opinions. And waiters don't like them. And ... "

That way, he can say, "I say masks are important all the time!" without ever having actually said masks are important or having served as any kind of national leader whatsoever.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 08, 2020, 07:24:01 PM
White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows hosted lavish Atlanta wedding for his daughter, over 70 guests, no masks, no distance. (May 2020, Jim Jordan was in attendance.)

https://www.ajc.com/politics/top-white-house-aide-hosted-lavish-atlanta-wedding-in-may-despite-virus-restrictions/EM4USUMCRFBJLJNC52WXR7EWIY/
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 08, 2020, 07:49:50 PM
Donald Trump Jr. hosting crowded maskless indoor event in Florida.

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1314311186800939010?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 08, 2020, 08:02:35 PM
Donald Trump Jr. hosting crowded maskless indoor event in Florida.

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1314311186800939010?s=19

They. Do. Not. Care.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 08, 2020, 08:25:07 PM
Uneducated white boys.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 09, 2020, 09:42:27 AM
"We're not sheep"...Watch the video.

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1314567189341630465?s=19

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 09, 2020, 09:28:23 PM
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1314702986564767746?s=19

Planes, Trains and ...Buses.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 10, 2020, 04:29:13 PM
Dallas,Texas. End of 4OT Oklahoma c Texas...I have your mask right here:

https://twitter.com/rodger/status/1315031935576616961

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Marquette Fan on October 10, 2020, 08:26:27 PM
Judge Brad Schimel was banished from his own courtroom for a bit for not wearing a mask:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/10/09/chief-justice-banished-judge-brad-schimel-his-courtroom-mask-dispute/5936488002/?fbclid=IwAR3qIGrWbZv0vsKAMnIsG5N032YpYzK2b5fq07igd6pzR9q0aIS-YwwBids

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 10, 2020, 08:34:40 PM
Dallas,Texas. End of 4OT Oklahoma c Texas...I have your mask right here:

https://twitter.com/rodger/status/1315031935576616961


We’re number one, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 11, 2020, 02:43:46 PM
Dallas,Texas. End of 4OT Oklahoma c Texas...I have your mask right here:

https://twitter.com/rodger/status/1315031935576616961

Superb.

I feel bad for her soon to be dead grandma, though. Granny was a nice old gal before she caught COVID-19 from her selfish, stupid, superspreader-event attending granddaughter.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on October 11, 2020, 06:08:21 PM
Michigan:

https://twitter.com/HillaryScholten/status/1313539207743320065?s=19

Her punctuation is atrocious.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 11, 2020, 07:54:13 PM
Mask sign:
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Sir Lawrence on October 11, 2020, 08:35:05 PM
Mask sign:

That’s great. Where at?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 11, 2020, 08:58:07 PM
That’s great. Where at?

Los Angeles.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 12, 2020, 11:34:48 AM
Leaders lead:

https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1315687359564976136?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 12, 2020, 12:00:11 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf

70% of folks in this CDC study said they always wore masks and an additional 14% said they almost always wore a mask prior to coming down with Covid.  84% of folks in this study were disciplined mask wearers and yet still fell ill with the virus, aside from calling them all liars how could this be?

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on October 12, 2020, 12:11:44 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf

70% of folks in this CDC study said they always wore masks and an additional 14% said they almost always wore a mask prior to coming down with Covid.  84% of folks in this study were disciplined mask wearers and yet still fell ill with the virus, aside from calling them all liars how could this be?

I believe the thinking is the mask doesn’t stop you from getting the virus, but rather spreading. So if you are wearing a mask and close to someone that’s infected and not wearing a mask, it won’t stop you from contracting the disease.

That’s why if you don’t wear a mask, you are putting others at risk much more than yourself.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 12, 2020, 12:15:06 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf

70% of folks in this CDC study said they always wore masks and an additional 14% said they almost always wore a mask prior to coming down with Covid.  84% of folks in this study were disciplined mask wearers and yet still fell ill with the virus, aside from calling them all liars how could this be?

This exhibits complete ignorance of the purpose of masks. You wear a mask because it greatly limits the chance of you spreading the disease to others, not because it guarantees that you won't get it yourself.
Anti-maskers aren't just dumb. They're selfish.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Lens on October 12, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf

70% of folks in this CDC study said they always wore masks and an additional 14% said they almost always wore a mask prior to coming down with Covid.  84% of folks in this study were disciplined mask wearers and yet still fell ill with the virus, aside from calling them all liars how could this be?

I know 35 or so people who have contracted COVID.  All of them can point to a time where they were unmasked as to how they got it.  Many before masks were being encouraged, others who refused to wear them and other to lapses in judgement (ie having a contractor in your home and not masking up).
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 12, 2020, 12:18:39 PM
Mark Meadows storms off and refuses to speak with reporters when they ask him to wear a mask while indoors.
This is why the administration's claims that they've encouraged safety protocols is so much hot air. They model completely opposite behavior and their cult members adherents follow their cues.

https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1315687359564976136
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 12, 2020, 12:54:42 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf

70% of folks in this CDC study said they always wore masks and an additional 14% said they almost always wore a mask prior to coming down with Covid.  84% of folks in this study were disciplined mask wearers and yet still fell ill with the virus, aside from calling them all liars how could this be?

As others have said, both Scoopers before me and scientists, masks are most useful at helping OTHERS not get infected by the mask-wearer. So if one likes being a selfish d-bag, don't wear a mask.

Also, even many well-intentioned people wear masks that don't fit right, or they don't keep them pulled over their noses like they are supposed to.

Also, I'm guessing that a lot of people who think they "always" wear masks in public really don't. They take them off when they're at the bar, or at a restaurant, or when they're golfing, etc.

But I'd bet that if two people are both wearing masks, even if they aren't perfect, and they spend a few minutes in close proximity with each other, the likelihood of one catching COVID from the other is very low.

So don't be like President Science Denier and his merry band of Infected Minions. Wear a mask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 12, 2020, 12:59:30 PM
This exhibits complete ignorance of the purpose of masks. You wear a mask because it greatly limits the chance of you spreading the disease to others, not because it guarantees that you won't get it yourself.
Anti-maskers aren't just dumb. They're selfish.
Nah, it exhibits the desire to be a disruptive troll.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 12, 2020, 02:03:33 PM
Beware of self-reported data. 73% of drivers (and 80% of male drivers) claim to be 'above average.'

https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-overconfident-in-their-driving-skills-2018-1
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on October 12, 2020, 02:37:21 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf

70% of folks in this CDC study said they always wore masks and an additional 14% said they almost always wore a mask prior to coming down with Covid.  84% of folks in this study were disciplined mask wearers and yet still fell ill with the virus, aside from calling them all liars how could this be?



Jams, did you read the study or just take the cherry-picked stats making social media rounds today?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 12, 2020, 04:01:36 PM
Orlando, Florida:

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1315754840182665216?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 12, 2020, 08:55:07 PM
Jams, did you read the study or just take the cherry-picked stats making social media rounds today?

Read the study, y?  Are my %s off?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 12, 2020, 11:12:17 PM
Read the study, y?  Are my %s off?

It's not that your percentages are wrong, it's that they're cherry-picked to give a misleading impression that masks aren't effective.
What you chose not to mention were the opening paragraphs of the study authors' discussion of their findings. There they wrote:

"In this investigation, participants with and without COVID-19 reported generally similar community exposures, with the exception  of  going  to  locations  with  on-site  eating  and  drinking  options. Adults with confirmed COVID-19 (case-patients) were approximately twice as likely as were control-participants to have reported dining at a restaurant in the 14 days before becoming ill. In addition to dining at a restaurant, case-patients were more likely to report going to a bar/coffee shop, but only when the analysis was restricted to participants without close contact with persons with known COVID-19 before illness onset."

In other words, the study found that those who went to public gathering spots where people don't wear masks - i.e. restaurants and bars - were twice as likely to contract COVID as those who avoid those places.
That sure seems a testament to the efficacy of mask wearing, right?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on October 13, 2020, 05:42:05 AM
Read the study, y?  Are my %s off?

Maybe look into what Breitbart is tweeting before posting it here.

It makes you look a lot more dense than you actually are.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 13, 2020, 07:42:10 AM


It makes you look a lot more dense than you actually are.

Posting history brings that into question.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 13, 2020, 10:30:31 AM
Maybe look into what Breitbart is tweeting before posting it here.

It makes you look a lot more dense than you actually are.

Because I made an accurate post, that yes I saw on twitter (not breitbart but RT) makes me dense?

I’ve always advocated for masks, I and my family wear them whenever outside the home .  I was just surprised to see the data from that study so thought I would throw it out for discussion since I hadn’t seen it brought up on Scoop.  Not much room for decent back and forth discussion on here though.  Thank you to Cheebs for a somewhat reasoned/leveled response.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on October 13, 2020, 11:53:17 AM
Because I made an accurate post, that yes I saw on twitter (not breitbart but RT) makes me dense?

I’ve always advocated for masks, I and my family wear them whenever outside the home .  I was just surprised to see the data from that study so thought I would throw it out for discussion since I hadn’t seen it brought up on Scoop.  Not much room for decent back and forth discussion on here though.  Thank you to Cheebs for a somewhat reasoned/leveled response.

> not breitbart but RT

Wants a reasoned discussion. Is posting literal russian propaganda lol
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 13, 2020, 01:28:32 PM
> not breitbart but RT

Wants a reasoned discussion. Is posting literal russian propaganda lol

I was obviously poking fun at myself for unfortunately choosing to post a link to RT story a few weeks back. 

It was a joke.  I saw it from neither Breitbart nor RT.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 13, 2020, 01:35:56 PM
Because I made an accurate post, that yes I saw on twitter (not breitbart but RT) makes me dense?

I’ve always advocated for masks, I and my family wear them whenever outside the home .  I was just surprised to see the data from that study so thought I would throw it out for discussion since I hadn’t seen it brought up on Scoop.  Not much room for decent back and forth discussion on here though.  Thank you to Cheebs for a somewhat reasoned/leveled response.

Herein lies the problem though.  I saw the same tweet (a friend from MU retweeted it).  Instead of knee jerk re-posting (like she did) because it fits a certain narrative, you could have done a cursory search or read the article. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 13, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
Herein lies the problem though.  I saw the same tweet (a friend from MU retweeted it).  Instead of knee jerk re-posting (like she did) because it fits a certain narrative, you could have done a cursory search or read the article.

I did read it to confirm the data I saw on social media was actually accurate from what the study showed.  The overall findings of the study showing that you are more likely to catch rona if you are spending time in a bar, restaurant, etc is widely known and had been discussed at length here so I didn’t feel like it’d worth rehashing that on Scoop.

The part I found interesting and previously undiscussed was what I posted cause I was genuinely interested in others thoughts as to why.  That’s it.

Wasn’t a post attacking the idea of wearing a mask cause as I’ve stated a hundred times, masks are muy bueno.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 13, 2020, 07:58:45 PM
   "So don't be like President Science Denier and his merry band of Infected Minions. Wear a mask."


  i try to stop by just to see what's happening, but these are the types of posts that make this board tough to read.  come on nads, get to a meeting or something
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 13, 2020, 10:51:56 PM
   "So don't be like President Science Denier and his merry band of Infected Minions. Wear a mask."


  i try to stop by just to see what's happening, but these are the types of posts that make this board tough to read.  come on nads, get to a meeting or something

Sorry rocket. From now on, I'll give your emperor all the credit he deserves.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: SERocks on October 14, 2020, 09:57:27 AM
Sorry rocket. From now on, I'll give your emperor all the credit he deserves.

If this means you won't be posting anymore we'll miss you.  :)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on October 14, 2020, 10:19:58 AM
I did read it to confirm the data I saw on social media was actually accurate from what the study showed.  The overall findings of the study showing that you are more likely to catch rona if you are spending time in a bar, restaurant, etc is widely known and had been discussed at length here so I didn’t feel like it’d worth rehashing that on Scoop.

The part I found interesting and previously undiscussed was what I posted cause I was genuinely interested in others thoughts as to why.  That’s it.

Wasn’t a post attacking the idea of wearing a mask cause as I’ve stated a hundred times, masks are muy bueno.

Again, if you read the study the answer is there. Masks are effective in bars and restaurants because they aren't worn. The people that 'always' wear masks have to take them off to eat and drink.

Instead, effing idiots like yourself and all over Facebook run with that 70% like it's the gospel that masks are not effective when the study is not focused on that at all.

Love that the study was posted over a month ago, but only the radical right picked up on it yesterday.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 14, 2020, 10:26:34 AM
If this means you won't be posting anymore we'll miss you.  :)

Made me laugh ... but alas (or yay, depending upon one's POV), it doesn't mean that!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 14, 2020, 03:46:24 PM
Des Moines, Iowa ahead of tonight's Trump rally:


https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1316476489974648841?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 14, 2020, 04:25:29 PM
Des Moines, Iowa ahead of tonight's Trump rally:


https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1316476489974648841?s=19


At least people are getting fair warning....
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 14, 2020, 04:48:10 PM

At least people are getting fair warning....

You’re assuming they can read :-\
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 14, 2020, 05:07:21 PM
my wife was contacted about teaching yoga and spin again. After this she's going to pass:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/13/world/spinco-canada-covid-19-outbreak-trnd/index.html

A spin studio that public health officials say followed all Covid-19 protocols is now reporting 61 positive cases of Covid-19, and as many as 100 staff, clients and family members may have been exposed.

This is why we turned our second bedroom/office into an exercise room.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 14, 2020, 05:51:14 PM
my wife was contacted about teaching yoga and spin again. After this she's going to pass:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/13/world/spinco-canada-covid-19-outbreak-trnd/index.html

A spin studio that public health officials say followed all Covid-19 protocols is now reporting 61 positive cases of Covid-19, and as many as 100 staff, clients and family members may have been exposed.

This is why we turned our second bedroom/office into an exercise room.


Yeah, the notion of reopening gyms concerns me. Given that people are working at high intensity, masks aren’t feasible. And since they’re breathing very heavily, the normal six–foot radius doesn’t seem like it would be sufficient. The link you provided seems to support  this concern.

Out of curiosity, what equipment do you have in your home gym? I have a NordicTrack, a LeMond spinning bike, a Smooth treadmill that my wife uses (all 15+ years old and still going strong), and a few dumbbells.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 14, 2020, 06:01:09 PM

Yeah, the notion of reopening gyms concerns me. Given that people are working at high intensity, masks aren’t feasible. And since they’re breathing very heavily, the normal six–foot radius doesn’t seem like it would be sufficient. The link you provided seems to support  this concern.

Out of curiosity, what equipment do you have in your home gym? I have a NordicTrack, a LeMond spinning bike, a Smooth treadmill that my wife uses (all 15+ years old and still going strong), and a few dumbbells.

I have a Peloton bike and use the app for other classes like strength, yoga and HIIT. We've got resistance bands, a few dumbells as well (3, 5, 10, 15 and one 20), and a full compliment of yoga equipment (since my wife is certified in that).

I had some classes left at Orange Theory from March so I went in August. Good god, running on a treadmill at high speeds while wearing a mask was brutal (I didn't go back until masks were required). I know my OTF was taking as many precautions as they could but still didn't feel comfortable continuing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 14, 2020, 06:29:35 PM
https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/covid-19-outbreak-at-orangetheory-in-elmhurst/

Orangetheory outbreak in Elmhurst.
I have not been back to my Lifetime. The owner is on one of Trump’s reopening committees, and word on the street is that they don’t enforce masks on recalcitrant patrons. I work out in a park with my trainer once a week for now, but I miss going, I was being really diligent.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 14, 2020, 06:40:11 PM
Wear an effen mask!

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article246445680.html?ac_cid=DM302012&ac_bid=-1757227681

At a revealing 5,000 frames per second, a camera captured how talking produces tiny droplets of saliva that rupture and disperse into the air in the blink of an eye, according to a new study from Princeton University.

It’s these same aerosolized droplets that can carry coronavirus particles and be inhaled by others. Certain sounds can exacerbate this explosive effect, so researchers say a better understanding of the process may inform new ways to mitigate viral spread.

Detailed videos of the speech spittle offer some good news: face masks can “effectively contain a significant portion of expelled aerosols,” and even wearing lip balm can reduce how many droplets form during speaking.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 14, 2020, 09:40:55 PM

At least people are getting fair warning....

https://twitter.com/brooklynmutt/status/1316490014533054465?s=19

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1316520314554265600?s=19

https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1316571566751322117?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 15, 2020, 07:16:02 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-10-12/transit-agencies-should-focus-on-masks-not-crowds?__twitter_impression=true

Public Transit and masks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 15, 2020, 01:58:06 PM
85%

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1316800466798489602?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 15, 2020, 02:54:30 PM
85%

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1316800466798489602?s=19

Are you saying he lies? I hadn't heard that before.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on October 15, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
my wife was contacted about teaching yoga and spin again. After this she's going to pass:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/13/world/spinco-canada-covid-19-outbreak-trnd/index.html

A spin studio that public health officials say followed all Covid-19 protocols is now reporting 61 positive cases of Covid-19, and as many as 100 staff, clients and family members may have been exposed.

This is why we turned our second bedroom/office into an exercise room.

I call shenanigans on “following all protocol and procedures”. At the very least i bet they had “normal” class sizes.  My GF’s Pilates studio in WI has never closed and has been mask mandatory the last 6 months. They have also reduced class sizes and added spacing during classes.

My gym has been open and while staff was masked, they didn’t go to mask mandatory till the MKE County mandate. As of this week, there have been no cases within the gym over the last 5 months since I’ve been back.

In normal circumstances gyms are a risk, but with proper measures I don’t buy that they inevitable outbreak havens 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 15, 2020, 08:23:48 PM
Revisiting Missouri Governor Mike COVID-19 Parson.

https://twitter.com/michelemunz/status/1316830566218633219?s=19

Missouri, record hospitalizations, 4th nationally in deaths over the last 7 days, 17.9% positivity rate, 

"Hospitalizations have risen dramatically since mid June, quadrupled in July."

All of the state is affected by this... EXCEPT...wait for it...St. Louis City and County which have had had strict mask and distance mandates since earlier in the Pandemic that are still in effect.

Wear a mask. Physical distance.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 16, 2020, 08:08:36 AM
Chris Christie: "Wear an effen mask!" (Disclosure: I added the effen for effen emphasis.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/15/us/politics/chris-christie-face-masks-covid.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20201016&instance_id=23195&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=41255&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Chris Christie, the former New Jersey governor who was recently battling a coronavirus infection, said on Thursday that he was “wrong” not to wear a mask at an event honoring Judge Amy Coney Barrett and in his debate preparation sessions with President Trump, and that people should take the threat of the virus seriously.

In an interview with The New York Times and in a written statement, Mr. Christie said that he had believed he was in a “safe zone” at the White House while he was there.  He urged people to follow best practices, like mask wearing and social distancing, but argued there’s a middle ground between extensive, large-scale shutdowns and reopening cities and states without taking proper precautions.

Mr. Christie said he had spent days in the intensive care unit of the Morristown Medical Center in New Jersey, after taking himself there on Oct. 3 at the insistence of his doctor. Mr. Christie, who was at high risk for negative effects of the coronavirus because of his weight and because he is an asthmatic, was one of several people around Mr. Trump, who announced early on Oct. 2 that he had tested positive, to contract the virus.

Mr. Christie had led Mr. Trump’s debate preparation sessions, and attended the Sept. 26 event honoring Ms. Barrett, the president’s nominee for the Supreme Court, in the Rose Garden. White House officials are looking at that event as a cause of the spread of the virus to more than a dozen people.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on October 16, 2020, 08:30:45 AM

New CDC Study Finds Majority of Those Infected with COVID-19 ‘Always’ Wore Masks
https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/new-cdc-study-finds-majority-of-those-infected-with-covid-19-always-wore-masks/


The study found 74.2% reported wearing masks “always” while 14.5% wore masks “often,” or 85% ;) almost always woremasks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 16, 2020, 08:35:04 AM
New CDC Study Finds Majority of Those Infected with COVID-19 ‘Always’ Wore Masks
https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/new-cdc-study-finds-majority-of-those-infected-with-covid-19-always-wore-masks/


The study found 74.2% reported wearing masks “always” while 14.5% wore masks “often,” or 85% ;) almost always woremasks.

Been discussed heavily in the last 3 pages.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on October 16, 2020, 08:38:52 AM
Been discussed heavily in the last 3 pages.
My mistake, I don't read what people write on here. Just sniff on the lies.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 16, 2020, 08:45:06 AM
New CDC Study Finds Majority of Those Infected with COVID-19 ‘Always’ Wore Masks
https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/new-cdc-study-finds-majority-of-those-infected-with-covid-19-always-wore-masks/


The study found 74.2% reported wearing masks “always” while 14.5% wore masks “often,” or 85% ;) almost always woremasks.

"COVID-19 Participants reported being at least twice as likely to go to a bar, restaurant, coffee shop"...where...wait for it....wait for it...I said wait for it...still waiting...you can't eat and drink while wearing a mask. And many people in general are not wearing a mask the entire time at the restaurant, at the table before and after eating, while dining outdoors, ...which still isn't good enough because even the best practice people are exposing themselves and others at least part of the time.

And of course we have known for most of the Pandemic that wearing a mask is first and foremost to protect others than yourself, meaning if you are wearing a mask and hanging out at a bar or restaurant or coffee shop or gym etc...where others aren't, your risk goes up.

California Globe is unsurprisingly a Conservative publication.


Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 16, 2020, 08:56:04 AM
"COVID-19 Participants reported being at least twice as likely to go to a bar, restaurant, coffee shop"...where...wait for it....wait for it...I said wait for it...still waiting...you can't eat and drink while wearing a mask. And many people in general are not wearing a mask the entire time at the restaurant, at the table before and after eating, while dining outdoors, ...which still isn't good enough because even the best practice people are exposing themselves and others at least part of the time.

And of course we have known for most of the Pandemic that wearing a mask is first and foremost to protect others than yourself, meaning if you are wearing a mask and hanging out at a bar or restaurant or coffee shop or gym etc...where others aren't, your risk goes up.

California Globe is unsurprisingly a Conservative publication.

The real story here, IMO, is how certain media outlets are willing to spin a misleading narrative about this report, and therefore discourage people from making healthy decisions, not because they believe masks don't work, but because it serves partisan political interests.
Politics > Lives.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 16, 2020, 08:57:05 AM
Politics > Lives.

Disgusting, but true.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 16, 2020, 03:27:36 PM
New CDC Study Finds Majority of Those Infected with COVID-19 ‘Always’ Wore Masks
https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/new-cdc-study-finds-majority-of-those-infected-with-covid-19-always-wore-masks/


The study found 74.2% reported wearing masks “always” while 14.5% wore masks “often,” or 85% ;) almost always woremasks.

It’s the CDC!! I’ll believe them about as often as I’ll belive trump. Oh, yeah. All the CDC’s messaging goes through the White House.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 16, 2020, 05:32:17 PM
  mask or no mask, who knows the exact moment someone picked enough particles to allow for the infection. then there is the asymptomatic and symptomatic infections.  regardless...there are those who take all the precautions in the world and get ill and vice versa, but it seems,  depending on who gets infected, if they aren't on your team, they are treated like they have an STD.  do we treat those who get influenza the same? 

  china's amazing numbers-under 100k infections with under 5k deaths...seriously? 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 16, 2020, 06:17:25 PM
If true, it can be traced to enforcing a shutdown, masks, and distancing.   A government willing to dictate life's minutiae and a society that accepts it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 16, 2020, 07:27:24 PM
@JohnnyHeatWave: is tucker ok? https://twitter.com/JohnnyHeatWave/status/1317111329099042821/video/1
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 16, 2020, 09:13:20 PM
but it seems,  depending on who gets infected, if they aren't on your team, they are treated like they have an STD.  do we treat those who get influenza the same? 

It seems that when the leader of the country spends 8 months lying to Americans, repeatedly says it’s nothing even though he knows it’s “deadly stuff,” mocks those who have the temerity to wear masks, holds deadly superspreader rallies against his own experts’ advice ... and then, just days after claiming “it affects virtually nobody,” he gets infected so badly that he has to be hospitalized ... yes, we treat him worse than “those who get influenza.”

I wasn’t rooting for your emperor to die BTW. The last thing I want is for him to be a martyr.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 17, 2020, 07:53:27 AM
It seems that when the leader of the country spends 8 months lying to Americans, repeatedly says it’s nothing even though he knows it’s “deadly stuff,” mocks those who have the temerity to wear masks, holds deadly superspreader rallies against his own experts’ advice ... and then, just days after claiming “it affects virtually nobody,” he gets infected so badly that he has to be hospitalized ... yes, we treat him worse than “those who get influenza.”

I wasn’t rooting for your emperor to die BTW. The last thing I want is for him to be a martyr.

  you're a lying dog faced pony soldier man, let's do some push ups, come on man!  what we have to do is listen to the science man and number 1, i would get out and ya see it's dignity for all of us, all of us and why the luhan province needs follow the 10 point plan check list and we have to do at least several things, one we have to depend on what the president is going to do right now and first of all we have to tell, ah wait to, umm wait till the cases before anything happens to see what happens  look the whole idea is we gotta get in place the things that were shortages of and if that's not clear you can go on my web site at 30...30..330
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 17, 2020, 07:56:53 AM
  you're a lying dog faced pony soldier man, let's do some push ups, come on man!  what we have to do is listen to the science man and number 1, i would get out and ya see it's dignity for all of us, all of us and why the luhan province needs follow the 10 point plan check list and we have to do at least several things, one we have to depend on what the president is going to do right now and first of all we have to tell, ah wait to, umm wait till the cases before anything happens to see what happens  look the whole idea is we gotta get in place the things that were shortages of and if that's not clear you can go on my web site at 30...30..330

Was this post made with a random word generator?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 17, 2020, 11:03:56 AM
  you're a lying dog faced pony soldier man, let's do some push ups, come on man!  what we have to do is listen to the science man and number 1, i would get out and ya see it's dignity for all of us, all of us and why the luhan province needs follow the 10 point plan check list and we have to do at least several things, one we have to depend on what the president is going to do right now and first of all we have to tell, ah wait to, umm wait till the cases before anything happens to see what happens  look the whole idea is we gotta get in place the things that were shortages of and if that's not clear you can go on my web site at 30...30..330

person ... woman ... man ... camera ... tv.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 17, 2020, 01:00:22 PM
  you're a lying dog faced pony soldier man, let's do some push ups, come on man!  what we have to do is listen to the science man and number 1, i would get out and ya see it's dignity for all of us, all of us and why the luhan province needs follow the 10 point plan check list and we have to do at least several things, one we have to depend on what the president is going to do right now and first of all we have to tell, ah wait to, umm wait till the cases before anything happens to see what happens  look the whole idea is we gotta get in place the things that were shortages of and if that's not clear you can go on my web site at 30...30..330

covfefe
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on October 17, 2020, 01:18:34 PM
Arby’s doesn’t serve hamberders.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on October 17, 2020, 03:16:08 PM
Arby’s doesn’t serve hamberders.

Which is weird for a company whose slogan is "We got the Beef". If they got the beef, show me the hamberder.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 17, 2020, 06:08:45 PM
  you're a lying dog faced pony soldier man, let's do some push ups, come on man!  what we have to do is listen to the science man and number 1, i would get out and ya see it's dignity for all of us, all of us and why the luhan province needs follow the 10 point plan check list and we have to do at least several things, one we have to depend on what the president is going to do right now and first of all we have to tell, ah wait to, umm wait till the cases before anything happens to see what happens  look the whole idea is we gotta get in place the things that were shortages of and if that's not clear you can go on my web site at 30...30..330




Nah man, we have to control the virus, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Lennys Tap on October 17, 2020, 07:29:13 PM
If true, it can be traced to enforcing a shutdown, masks, and distancing.   A government willing to dictate life's minutiae and a society that accepts it.

Accepts it? Seriously? A government can get a society to “accept” pretty much anything if the penalty for not accepting is draconian enough.

If true? That’s a good one.




Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 17, 2020, 09:04:30 PM



Nah man, we have to control the virus, hey?

Yeah we can do absolutely nothing to make this better hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 18, 2020, 01:02:12 AM
Accepts it? Seriously? A government can get a society to “accept” pretty much anything if the penalty for not accepting is draconian enough.

If true? That’s a good one.

China is laughing at the US because they've got this under control.

Have they lied? Probably, but they've also go this under better control than the US.

Do I want the US to have draconian control over people like china? Of course not.

Do I wish the US would have used the past 5 months to more effectively control this virus when we all could have been masked up and largely outdoors (numbers should slow drastically in summer!). Of course. It's embarrassing, and sad that this fall is going to be a repeat of Easter. Maybe worse.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 18, 2020, 08:09:39 AM
Accepts it? Seriously? A government can get a society to “accept” pretty much anything if the penalty for not accepting is draconian enough.

If true? That’s a good one.
Made me chuckle.   Thanks, Lenny.

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-case-increases-hit-record-191755557.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 18, 2020, 08:17:48 AM
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1317815115543175168?s=19

This was the tweet removed about masks:

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 18, 2020, 09:20:48 AM
Yeah we can do absolutely nothing to make this better hey?
[/quote


Control the virus? Nice catch phrase from a challenger in an election year. Controllable? It either runs its course or an effective vaccine is developed. Pfizer will have the ladder by the end of November. That's very fast approval for an effective treatment, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 18, 2020, 09:33:28 AM
Control the virus? Nice catch phrase from a challenger in an election year. Controllable? It either runs its course or an effective vaccine is developed. Pfizer will have the ladder by the end of November. That's very fast approval for an effective treatment, aina?

Oh I see.  You think this is all about one man.  Ok.  And if vaccine speed is all about one man too I guess someone is myopically viewing a global problem through a political lens.  It’s what has killed us from the start with this thing. 

We’ve got a long way to go on this even if a vaccine gets approved tomorrow.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on October 18, 2020, 09:35:01 AM
https://twitter.com/Atul_Gawande/status/1317619168703905792?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on October 18, 2020, 09:40:44 AM
Yeah we can do absolutely nothing to make this better hey?
[/quote


Control the virus? Nice catch phrase from a challenger in an election year. Controllable? It either runs its course or an effective vaccine is developed. Pfizer will have the ladder by the end of November. That's very fast approval for an effective treatment, aina?

Sad.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2020, 09:42:11 AM
Oh I see.  You think this is all about one man. 


That's how cults of personality work.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on October 18, 2020, 11:10:51 AM
Oh I see.  You think this is all about one man.  Ok.  And if vaccine speed is all about one man too I guess someone is myopically viewing a global problem through a political lens.  It’s what has killed us from the start with this thing. 

We’ve got a long way to go on this even if a vaccine gets approved tomorrow.

Strange that in many countries, the virus has run its course, since they don’t have the spreading that the US has.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 18, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
Strange that in many countries, the virus has run its course, since they don’t have the spreading that the US has.

The chief advisor for the epidemic has zero background in epidemiology.

How’s that for great leadership?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 18, 2020, 03:21:25 PM
The chief advisor for the epidemic has zero background in epidemiology.

How’s that for great leadership?
Atlas has the only qualification that matters: Absolute loyalty.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 18, 2020, 04:47:56 PM
The chief advisor for the epidemic has zero background in epidemiology.

How’s that for great leadership?


"We're gonna get the best people in the world."

Seems like he speaks in teal....
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 19, 2020, 12:43:28 PM
That's how cults of personality work.

Death cult
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 19, 2020, 01:55:07 PM

"We're gonna get the best people in the world."

Seems like he speaks in teal....

Now, THAT made me laugh.

Rather than flag his twits with warning notes, Twitter should change all the lies to teal!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 19, 2020, 02:24:22 PM
Death cult

And I got criticized for calling him a killer?  ::)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 19, 2020, 08:17:57 PM
https://www.southbendtribune.com/news/local/maskless-clerk-in-indiana-doesnt-back-down-despite-covid-surge-warning-from-state/article_4d725468-109a-11eb-8e07-9f29ae7769b4.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 19, 2020, 09:50:13 PM
Fauci is pissed that Trump keeps saying stuff like, "Even Dr. Fauci has said people shouldn't wear masks. It's very confusing," and he finally set the record straight on 60 Minutes -- for all those too dense to realize it before now.

Yes, very early on, Fauci and others in his field were very concerned that if they advocated mask-wearing, there would be such a panic-run on masks that there wouldn't be enough for first responders and other medical personnel. So they lied about it to protect the meager supplies America had available.

But by mid-March, it had become accepted science that folks should wear masks, even cloth masks they make themselves. And Fauci promoted mask-wearing strongly after that.

Meanwhile, Trump has not. Indeed, it's worse than that. Not only does he fail to urge Americans to do the single best thing to protect themselves from COVID-19 when in public, he actively mocks mask-wearing. To this day, he STILL mocks it.

Filming one campaign ad showing him wearing a mask once will not fool those who know that he even refused to wear a mask while visiting a mask factory that required every visitor to wear a mask.

Fauci was great on 60 Minutes. He did not directly attack POTUS but he let it be known that he did not appreciate scientists being silenced and ignored, that he did not appreciate the Trump campaign knowingly taking his comments out of context and without his permission, and that he especially did not appreciate his statements on the importance of mask-wearing being purposely misconstrued for political purposes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 23, 2020, 08:47:12 AM
Mask chart:

"The Powerful case for wearing a mask"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/23/pandemic-data-chart-masks/#click=https://t.co/IE0TIGDZm8
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 23, 2020, 08:53:37 AM
I think it would be interesting to capture an additional question in these polls/studies.

Do you wear a mask when in 'close proximity' with family members or close friends that do not live in your household
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 23, 2020, 09:17:40 AM
Mask chart:

"The Powerful case for wearing a mask"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/23/pandemic-data-chart-masks/#click=https://t.co/IE0TIGDZm8

But ... but ... but ... Freedom!

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 23, 2020, 06:50:07 PM
Pensacola, Florida:

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1319777669043585024?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 08:39:47 PM
Fauci says tonight it “might” be time to start mandating masks.  Suggesting it wasn’t necessary up until now?

For being the leading voice on infectious disease he’s been all over the place.  He should have been fighting for this mandate 7 months ago, why now during our third wave “might” it be time? 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 08:45:45 PM
He has been saying it for months. Here is one example from more than two months ago.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fauci-says-he-favors-mask-mandate-in-interview-with-matthew-mcconaughey

In the interviews where he waffled, he was clear that everyone should wear a mask, and was mostly concerned with the ability to enforce a mandate. That is very different from not saying people should wear masks.

But you knew that…
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 08:48:42 PM
He has been saying it for months. Here is one example from more than two months ago.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fauci-says-he-favors-mask-mandate-in-interview-with-matthew-mcconaughey

In the interviews where he waffled, he was clear that everyone should wear a mask, and was mostly concerned with the ability to enforce a mandate. That is very different from not saying people should wear masks.

But you knew that…

My point is there should be no waffling from the leading voice in infectious disease.  Mandate masks!!!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 08:52:15 PM
He has been saying it for months. Here is one example from more than two months ago.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fauci-says-he-favors-mask-mandate-in-interview-with-matthew-mcconaughey

In the interviews where he waffled, he was clear that everyone should wear a mask, and was mostly concerned with the ability to enforce a mandate. That is very different from not saying people should wear masks.

But you knew that…

And you know there is a very big difference in encouraging everyone to wear a mask and mandating it.  In that very interview he never once says he supports a mandate.  Just that he supports universal mask wearing, mandate with penalty for not wearing now!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 08:59:53 PM
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/released-emails-show-fauci-signed-who-statement-approving-chinas?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Everyone said early on listen to the experts.  This is what our leading expert was doing early on.  Our biggest mistake was giving him the keys to the car.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 23, 2020, 09:12:56 PM
Sigh. We’ve been over this at least a dozen times.

A lot of people - even Fauci - made mistakes the first couple months.

By mid- to late-March, however, so much more was known. Fauci and every other expert was saying masks and social distancing were musts.

But your emperor decided that masks were “weak,” and he did everything to undermine and mock.

He actually visited a mask factory - at which every visitor and employee had to wear a mask - and didn’t wear one. He sent his VP to the Mayo Clinic and didn’t let him wear one. He wouldn’t let his staff wear masks at meetings. He refused to answer questions from reporters wearing masks. He made fun of Biden for wearing a mask. He held superspreader rallies without masks or social distancing (RIP Herman Cain).

All of this after it was accepted science. And he’s STILL doing it.

But, like you, he justifies it by referring to shyte from Jan and Feb.

Stop. Please.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 09:20:31 PM
Sigh. We’ve been over this at least a dozen times.

A lot of people - even Fauci - made mistakes the first couple months.

By mid- to late-March, however, so much more was known. Fauci and every other expert was saying masks and social distancing were musts.

But your emperor decided that masks were “weak,” and he did everything to undermine and mock.

He actually visited a mask factory - at which every visitor and employee had to wear a mask - and didn’t wear one. He sent his VP to the Mayo Clinic and didn’t let him wear one. He wouldn’t let his staff wear masks at meetings. He refused to answer questions from reporters wearing masks. He made fun of Biden for wearing a mask. He held superspreader rallies without masks or social distancing (RIP Herman Cain).

All of this after it was accepted science. And he’s STILL doing it.

But, like you, he justifies it by referring to shyte from Jan and Feb.

Stop. Please.

I’m talking about today!  In an interview today Fauci couldn’t even bring himself to whole heartedly supporting a mask mandate.  What do we have to do to convince that guy that without a mandate enforced with financial penalty (maybe a short stint in jail?) for lack of compliance that we’ll just be spinning our tires. 

If he’s not going to be supporting it in his public interviews how in the hell can you expect Trump to support it?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 09:21:14 PM
My point is there should be no waffling from the leading voice in infectious disease.  Mandate masks!!!


We all know what has happened to people in this administration who have contradicted Trump. The fact that he has said it several times shows that he is being far more bold than virtually anyone else.

I know you’re here just to be a contrarian, but this is getting silly.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 09:22:05 PM
Sigh. We’ve been over this at least a dozen times.

A lot of people - even Fauci - made mistakes the first couple months.

By mid- to late-March, however, so much more was known. Fauci and every other expert was saying masks and social distancing were musts.

But your emperor decided that masks were “weak,” and he did everything to undermine and mock.

He actually visited a mask factory - at which every visitor and employee had to wear a mask - and didn’t wear one. He sent his VP to the Mayo Clinic and didn’t let him wear one. He wouldn’t let his staff wear masks at meetings. He refused to answer questions from reporters wearing masks. He made fun of Biden for wearing a mask. He held superspreader rallies without masks or social distancing (RIP Herman Cain).

All of this after it was accepted science. And he’s STILL doing it.

But, like you, he justifies it by referring to shyte from Jan and Feb.

Stop. Please.

By not mandating masks Trump is listening to the end all be all Fauci.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 09:23:43 PM

We all know what has happened to people in this administration who have contradicted Trump. The fact that he has said it several times shows that he is being far more bold than virtually anyone else.

I know you’re here just to be a contrarian, but this is getting silly.

He said today (TODAY!!!!) a mandate would be a waste of time because of having to enforce it.  How is this getting silly?  These are lives on the line Gooo?!?!?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 09:38:10 PM
He said today (TODAY!!!!) a mandate would be a waste of time because of having to enforce it.  How is this getting silly?  These are lives on the line Gooo?!?!?


Of course there should be a mask mandate. I have been saying that for a long time.

But with regard to Fauci, if he said what he really believes, he would be fired for contradicting Trump. You know that, and playing dumb about it is just silly.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 09:44:20 PM

Of course there should be a mask mandate. I have been saying that for a long time.

But with regard to Fauci, if he said what he really believes, he would be fired for contradicting Trump. You know that, and playing dumb about it is just silly.

So he’s more worried about keeping his position on the task force then speaking truth in these interviews which would result in saving thousands of lives?  Great.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 09:51:02 PM
So he’s more worried about keeping his position on the task force then speaking truth in these interviews which would result in saving thousands of lives?  Great.


People who have been shut down by Trump have been shut down for good. He is trying to keep his job so that he can spread the word as best he can. But again, you knew that.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 09:58:13 PM

People who have been shut down by Trump have been shut down for good. He is trying to keep his job so that he can spread the word as best he can. But again, you knew that.

Whose been shut down for good?  Are you suggesting Trump is axing people ?

Also, I really liked Biden’s requirement of truckers and anyone driving over state lines to have to wear masks while in their 18 wheelers/cars.  Little bit of low hanging fruit with that policy suggestion but a no brainer for immediate impact.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 09:58:48 PM
Whose been shut down for good?  Are you suggesting Trump is axing people ?

Also, I really liked Biden’s requirement of truckers and anyone driving over state lines to have to wear masks while in their 18 wheelers/cars.  Little bit of low hanging fruit with that policy suggestion but a no brainer for immediate impact.

Surprised Pakuni didn’t have this on that hard hitting list.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU11W on October 23, 2020, 10:01:02 PM
Whose been shut down for good?  Are you suggesting Trump is axing people ?

Also, I really liked Biden’s requirement of truckers and anyone driving over state lines to have to wear masks while in their 18 wheelers/cars.  Little bit of low hanging fruit with that policy suggestion but a no brainer for immediate impact.

At what point do you just shut the unnatural carnal knowledge up? I know this is an act, but holy crap grow up Peter Pan.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 10:03:31 PM
At what point do you just shut the unnatural carnal knowledge up? I know this is an act, but holy crap grow up Peter Pan.

???

Are you against masks bruh or why you so fired up?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 23, 2020, 10:17:00 PM
You’re a bot, I guess. Later.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 10:28:04 PM
Classic.

I make a few posts essentially agreeing with everyone’s wish on this board for a mask mandate and I get called a bot and to shut the unnatural carnal knowledge up.

I just wish Fauci was on the same page as us!! You think we can convince our local leadership to attach jail time to people being caught not wearing a mask once Biden gets in?  I fear public pressure won’t be enough.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 10:42:51 PM

Whose been shut down for good?  Are you suggesting Trump is axing people?


Remember Nancy Messonnier?

CDC official who made early warning about coronavirus silenced by Trump, documentary reveals

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/cdc-trump-coronavirus-documentary-nancy-messonnier-b1205877.html

———————

Fauci is trying to do his job to protect people, while avoiding being silenced. It is a very fine line with this president.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 10:51:01 PM
Remember Nancy Messonnier?

CDC official who made early warning about coronavirus silenced by Trump, documentary reveals

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/cdc-trump-coronavirus-documentary-nancy-messonnier-b1205877.html

———————

Fauci is trying to do his job to protect people, while avoiding being silenced. It is a very fine line with this president.

Nancy wasn’t fired.  I don’t get it.

And it doesn’t change the fact that if you believe Fauci isn’t speaking his whole truth that means he’s putting his job at the ripe old age of 80+ in front of trying to save lives.  Your conspiracy theory is a bit of a stretch.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 10:53:34 PM
Remember Nancy Messonnier?

CDC official who made early warning about coronavirus silenced by Trump, documentary reveals

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/cdc-trump-coronavirus-documentary-nancy-messonnier-b1205877.html

———————

Fauci is trying to do his job to protect people, while avoiding being silenced. It is a very fine line with this president.

You should change your profile name to Fauci Whisperer.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 10:59:59 PM
Nancy wasn’t fired.  I don’t get it.

And it doesn’t change the fact that if you believe Fauci isn’t speaking his whole truth that means he’s putting his job at the ripe old age of 80+ in front of trying to save lives.  Your conspiracy theory is a bit of a stretch.


Silenced. Trump has done it a number of times. If the story about Nancy Messonnier isn’t enough, try this:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-silenced-meet-the-climate-whistle-blowers-muzzled-by-the-trump-administration/

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 23, 2020, 11:08:51 PM
When is the last time a bureaucrat was blamed for a national crisis. Let alone one subservient to the vp in a crisis structure. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 23, 2020, 11:13:57 PM
When is the last time a bureaucrat was blamed for a national crisis. Let alone one subservient to the vp in a crisis structure.


Job #1 is to protect Dear Leader. Same as in China, Russia, N. Korea, etc.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 11:16:42 PM
When is the last time a bureaucrat was blamed for a national crisis. Let alone one subservient to the vp in a crisis structure.

I’m not blaming Fauci.  I’m blaming trump for listening to Fauci primarily on the early feedback of lockdowns and no masks. 

Just trying to highlight Fauci has been wrong a lot and continue to be wrong by prioritizing his job over stressing the truth and urgency of a mask mandate.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 11:21:56 PM

Silenced. Trump has done it a number of times. If the story about Nancy Messonnier isn’t enough, try this:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-silenced-meet-the-climate-whistle-blowers-muzzled-by-the-trump-administration/

https://blogs.webmd.com/webmd-interviews/20200921/cdc-messionnier-says-she-trusts-covid-vaccine-process

Silenced?  Just cause Trump didn’t choose her to be the administrations messenger or voice on Covid doesn’t mean she was silenced.  Seems she’s been doing interviews and speaking at consulting this whole time.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 23, 2020, 11:24:24 PM
I’m not blaming Fauci.  I’m blaming trump for listening to Fauci primarily on the early feedback of lockdowns and no masks. 

Just trying to highlight Fauci has been wrong a lot and continue to be wrong by prioritizing his job over stressing the truth and urgency of a mask mandate.

That’s misguided. Fauci while incredibly knowledgeable changed his public position very early and isn’t charge of the national response to coronavirus (its pence, I guess). 

The buck stops where?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 11:25:15 PM

Silenced?


Yes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 23, 2020, 11:30:45 PM
That’s misguided. Fauci while incredibly knowledgeable changed his public position very early and isn’t charge of the national response to coronavirus (its pence, I guess). 

The buck stops where?


I will let you continue the battle against Pace’s doublespeak from here. I just think it’s funny that in a single post, he said “I’m not blaming Fauci,“ then contradicted that with “Fauci has been wrong a lot and continues to be wrong.”🤔

Bonne chance, mon ami.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 11:31:28 PM
Yes.

If working in partnership with operation warp speed is being silenced then we have different definitions of being silenced.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on October 23, 2020, 11:40:33 PM
There’s three guys I know from high school that are big Trump guys. Donald could get peed on tomorrow night in front of the Lincoln Memorial and they would still go vote in person for Trump.

Every time Jamie goes on a tirade here, it’s the actual same topic the three Trumpeteers are arguing with everyone about on Facebook.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 11:42:24 PM

I will let you continue the battle against Pace’s doublespeak from here. I just think it’s funny that in a single post, he said “I’m not blaming Fauci,“ then contradicted that with “Fauci has been wrong a lot and continues to be wrong.”🤔

Bonne chance, mon ami.

Maybe an analogy will help.  When Biden suggested not to go forward with the bin laden raid it would be accurate to say that it was crap advice.  It would also have been accurate to lay ultimate blame on Obama if he had taken that advice, thankfully he didn’t and moved forward.

So it’s not double speak to say the advice Fauci gave was bad while still placing the final blame on Trump for heeding that advice.  Like Obama did to Biden, Trump should have ignored Fauci. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 23, 2020, 11:44:29 PM
There’s three guys I know from high school that are big Trump guys. Donald could get peed on tomorrow night in front of the Lincoln Memorial and they would still go vote in person for Trump.

Every time Jamie goes on a tirade here, it’s the actual same topic the three Trumpeteers are arguing with everyone about on Facebook.

What’s this Jamie thing you keep calling me? 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on October 23, 2020, 11:48:32 PM
What’s this Jamie thing you keep calling me? 

👍🏻
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 24, 2020, 12:02:26 AM
👍🏻

👍
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 24, 2020, 12:28:47 AM
You guys will have to excuse pace, this was his first experience with beer and he doesn't know his limits yet.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on October 24, 2020, 03:45:13 AM
What’s this Jamie thing you keep calling me?

What’s a Chicos?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 24, 2020, 07:30:57 AM
It hurts the feelings of the tribe that Fauci is more popular and more respected than their tribal leader.

Fauci named Federal Employee of the Year.

https://ourpublicservice.org/publications/anthony-fauci-2020-federal-employee-of-the-year/

Fauci receives first ever Presidential Citation for exemplary leadership from the National Academy of Medicine.

https://nam.edu/nam-awards-first-ever-presidential-citation-for-exemplary-leadership-to-anthony-fauci/

He received the linehard award for Advancement of Healthcare

https://nam.edu/nam-awards-first-ever-presidential-citation-for-exemplary-leadership-to-anthony-fauci/


Attacking Fauci is gaslighting, which by definition is to change the subject, to distract and to aggressively attack a different subject or person. Why distract, why attack someone else? The President does it to change the subject from his audio tapes and other documentation that he knew about the virus in January and he knew all about its dangers, but intentionally did nothing about it. He didn't care. He still doesn't care.

Instead of aggressively attacking the virus as his war that he wanted, Trump was unable to recognize that. He easily could have sold the war on COVID-19 to his tribe. Had Trump had a national plan (still doesn't), actually read the info about Pandemic Response left behind by the previous administration, less people would be dead and less people would be sick.

Trump of course isn't interested in governing, the actually doing the work part, he never was. Some, many, tribal followers want to listen to a self assured sounding (spoiler alert he isn't in actuality) that talks tough. Why? because it helps alleviate their endless uncertainty of who and what to believe. You see this is a big issue with the non-self assured, paranoid, fearful types. If they listen to the bombastic one, they don't have to think for themselves, and, to the tribe, that is much easier and less stressful than going around in circles thinking for themselves.

So no, it isn't about Fauci. It's about following the lead of the tribal leader like sheep. Distract, attack, change subject from why we are here. We are here today with record cases approaching November because of the failures or the President of the United States, and his intentionally endangering the lives of many. Those are the facts.



Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 24, 2020, 07:33:06 AM
You guys will have to excuse pace, this was his first experience with beer and he doesn't know his limits yet.

Geez, you’d think I was the one telling people to shut the unnatural carnal knowledge up or name calling all night.

Sorry for fighting for a mask mandate, thought you were on board rocky. 

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 24, 2020, 07:34:42 AM
It hurts the feelings of the tribe that Fauci is more popular and more respected than their tribal leader.

Fauci named Federal Employee of the Year.

https://ourpublicservice.org/publications/anthony-fauci-2020-federal-employee-of-the-year/

Fauci receives first ever Presidential Citation for exemplary leadership from the National Academy of Medicine.

https://nam.edu/nam-awards-first-ever-presidential-citation-for-exemplary-leadership-to-anthony-fauci/

He received the linehard award for Advancement of Healthcare

https://nam.edu/nam-awards-first-ever-presidential-citation-for-exemplary-leadership-to-anthony-fauci/


Attacking Fauci is gaslighting, which by definition is to change the subject, to distract and to aggressively attack a different subject or person. Why distract, why attack someone else? The President does it to change the subject from his audio tapes and other documentation that he knew about the virus in January and he knew all about its dangers, but intentionally did nothing about it. He didn't care. He still doesn't care.

Instead of aggressively attacking the virus as his war that he wanted, Trump was unable to recognize that. He easily could have sold the war on COVID-19 to his tribe. Had Trump had a national plan (still doesn't), actually read the info about Pandemic Response left behind by the previous administration, less people would be dead and less people would be sick.

Trump of course isn't interested in governing, the actually doing the work part, he never was. Some, many, tribal followers want to listen to a self assured sounding (spoiler alert he isn't in actuality) that talks tough. Why? because it helps alleviate their endless uncertainty of who and what to believe. You see this is a big issue with the non-self assured, paranoid, fearful types. If they listen to the bombastic one, they don't have to think for themselves, and, to the tribe, that is much easier and less stressful than going around in circles thinking for themselves.

So no, it isn't about Fauci. It's about following the lead of the tribal leader like sheep. Distract, attack, change subject from why we are here. We are here today with record cases approaching November because of the failures or the President of the United States, and his intentionally endangering the lives of many. Those are the facts.

And what did Fauci do to deserve all those awards?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 24, 2020, 07:43:37 AM
And what did Fauci do to deserve all those awards?

Why don't you ask the people who gave them to him? Those are just a few of the ones he's received from this year alone. Literally named Federal Employee of the Year. I know it hurts the tribe.

Mask thread. Trump wouldn't wear a mask. He has had all year to promote it, nothing. He even toured mask required facilities without wearing one. He has held rallies where people have later died. They weren't wearing masks. Blood on his hands.

This is your tribal leader. And this is only the mask thread, one small category of his failures. He even made fun of other people who wear masks.

You see this failure is about the person in charge, the person who doesn't listen to science and scientists. global warming, he said recently, you wait it will get cooler.

All he had to do was wear a mask often and encourage America to do so. He couldn't do it, and he wouldn't do it. That's on Trump. Meanwhile Fauci still has massively high approval from his peers, the American people even though Trump has spent a year being jealous of his noteriety and trying to turn the tribe against him. Narcissism 101.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 24, 2020, 08:09:26 AM
Ah.  ChicosArrow02 shows his true colors.

It makes sense.  His latest persona WarriorDad has been mothballed for awhile. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 24, 2020, 08:30:44 AM
Ah.  ChicosArrow02 shows his true colors.

It makes sense.  His latest persona WarriorDad has been mothballed for awhile.

The lack of fresh air is getting to you guys.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 24, 2020, 08:37:10 AM
The lack of fresh air is getting to you guys.


No, what's getting to us is your logically inconsistent "points" with cherry-picked data and out of context quotes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 24, 2020, 08:43:14 AM

No, what's getting to us is your logically inconsistent "points" with cherry-picked data and out of context quotes.

Such as?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 24, 2020, 08:50:05 AM
Such as?

Pretty much every post you made over the last 24 hours.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 24, 2020, 08:55:06 AM
Florida Governor DeSantis:

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1319792702553313280?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 24, 2020, 08:55:58 AM
Pretty much every post you made over the last 24 hours.

My disappointment in Fauci has been inconsistent?  My support in mask wearing? 

That’s all been the same for about 5-6 months.  My stance on mask being mandated has changed a bit but that’s a hat tip to you guys for the convincing arguments made on scoop.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 24, 2020, 10:48:22 AM
My disappointment in Fauci has been inconsistent?  My support in mask wearing? 

That’s all been the same for about 5-6 months.  My stance on mask being mandated has changed a bit but that’s a hat tip to you guys for the convincing arguments made on scoop.

Since you seem obsesses with Fauci and masks, give this a watch.  A really good demonstration, and interview with Fauci!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ66wJFD3bs
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 24, 2020, 12:04:48 PM
Suburban Nashville.

There is a "Mask Free Tennessee" event in Franklin, TN today.

Signs include: "Masks are for morons" "Don't Take away my oxygen" "Let me breathe Let me be free" "My mask is on the inside. It's called the Immune System" "The Bible is the only essential" "Pro Constitutional Freedom"
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 24, 2020, 12:32:52 PM
Suburban Nashville.

There is a "Mask Free Tennessee" event in Franklin, TN today.

Signs include: "Masks are for morons" "Don't Take away my oxygen" "Let me breathe Let me be free" "My mask is on the inside. It's called the Immune System" "The Bible is the only essential" "Pro Constitutional Freedom"

Everyone wore government mandated seatbelts to get to the rally.

As I always say, please don't waste tax dollars on these people when they get sick. The gene pool will thank you.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 24, 2020, 08:58:32 PM
Waukesha, Wisconsin:

https://twitter.com/colvinj/status/1320173816895725569?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 24, 2020, 09:29:40 PM
Waukesha, Wisconsin:

https://twitter.com/colvinj/status/1320173816895725569?s=19


Not far from the field hospital.

Serendipity.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 25, 2020, 10:15:29 AM
Waukesha, Wisconsin:

https://twitter.com/colvinj/status/1320173816895725569?s=19

The best part of this is it is a rally for Trump who is 7 points behind... in the hottest Covid state in the US.  And there is people who are willing to risk their lives to see this sideshow carnival barker.

These people are truly lost.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 25, 2020, 11:09:14 AM
Gospel reading today was about the new commandment.   Love God... Love your neighbor as yourself.

Homily was about how wearing masks is showing you love your neighbor as yourself.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 25, 2020, 11:36:28 AM
Excellent. Counterbalance to the one my cousin approvingly posted from Minnesota where the priest railed  on about it being a conspiracy, hardly anyone gets it, etc etc.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 25, 2020, 11:36:37 AM
The best part of this is it is a rally for Trump who is 7 points behind... in the hottest Covid state in the US.  And there is people who are willing to risk their lives to see this sideshow carnival barker.

These people are truly lost.

“I think the Senate is tough actually. The Senate is very tough,” Trump said at a fundraiser Thursday at the Nashville Marriott, according to an attendee. “There are a couple senators I can’t really get involved in. I just can’t do it. You lose your soul if you do. I can’t help some of them. I don’t want to help some of them.”

So, the guy who asked (and got) Republican senators to sell their souls to him says that supporting those people now that they desperately need him would cause him to lose his soul?

Their main offense? They don't bend the knee and kiss the emperor's ... um ... ring?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 26, 2020, 05:50:53 AM
Everyone wore government mandated seatbelts to get to the rally.

As I always say, please don't waste tax dollars on these people when they get sick. The gene pool will thank you.


  but these people are ok? gene pool?  weird, couldn't find this anywhere else-called the "blunt bloc"?  excellent  ?-(

   https://www.foxnews.com/us/antifa-coronavirus-portland-popsicle-party-report
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 26, 2020, 07:34:14 AM

  but these people are ok? gene pool?  weird, couldn't find this anywhere else-called the "blunt bloc"?  excellent  ?-(

   https://www.foxnews.com/us/antifa-coronavirus-portland-popsicle-party-report

That 1 person is as stupid as the thousands of people who refuse to wear masks and knowingly attend superspreader events. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 26, 2020, 07:54:53 AM
For a guy who claims he doesn't get his news from Fox, he definitely posts a lot of his whataboutism link from Fox.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on October 26, 2020, 09:29:00 AM
For a guy who claims he doesn't get his news from Fox, he definitely posts a lot of his whataboutism link from Fox.

I THINK he's trolling. But, based on his history of posting, this may be his genuine outlook.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 26, 2020, 10:08:41 AM

  but these people are ok? gene pool?  weird, couldn't find this anywhere else-called the "blunt bloc"?  excellent  ?-(

   https://www.foxnews.com/us/antifa-coronavirus-portland-popsicle-party-report

Bad behavior.  Now admit that the superspreader events that Trump holds several times a week are bad behavior.

I'll take my answer off the air.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on October 26, 2020, 03:46:30 PM

  but these people are ok? gene pool?  weird, couldn't find this anywhere else-called the "blunt bloc"?  excellent  ?-(

   https://www.foxnews.com/us/antifa-coronavirus-portland-popsicle-party-report

A singular dumb event, should be fined and discouraged. but you seem genuinely unconcerned with gatherings that are just as large, if not larger every single day in this country. You are posting this because it said "Portland" and "Antifa".
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 26, 2020, 03:56:09 PM
A singular dumb event, should be fined and discouraged. but you seem genuinely unconcerned with gatherings that are just as large, if not larger every single day in this country. You are posting this because it said "Portland" and "Antifa".


Agreed.

Covid-spreading events like that are reckless and irresponsible, whether they are to support Antifa or Trump.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 26, 2020, 08:07:21 PM
For a guy who claims he doesn't get his news from Fox, he definitely posts a lot of his whataboutism link from Fox.

 i claimed that i don't get my news from fox? teal?  show me

 it's not "whataboutism"  many times i look for the same story on "other news sites" and it's either not there(shocker) or spun completely different.  believe me, if i find the same story on "another news source", and it's similar to the fox news story,  i will link it because you guys get diarrhea every time you see a fox news link. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 26, 2020, 08:15:18 PM
i claimed that i don't get my news from fox? teal?  show me

 it's not "whataboutism"  many times i look for the same story on "other news sites" and it's either not there(shocker) or spun completely different.  believe me, if i find the same story on "another news source", and it's similar to the fox news story,  i will link it because you guys get diarrhea every time you see a fox news link. 

No. I just shake my head and feel sorry for your brain. It didn’t ask to be turned into mush.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on October 26, 2020, 08:25:21 PM
i claimed that i don't get my news from fox? teal?  show me

it's not "whataboutism"  many times i look for the same story on "other news sites" and it's either not there(shocker) or spun completely different.  believe me, if i find the same story on "another news source", and it's similar to the fox news story,  i will link it because you guys get diarrhea every time you see a fox news link. 

Dude you're like 90% of the way there lol
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 26, 2020, 08:30:17 PM
Dude you're like 90% of the way there lol

Right. He can’t quuuiiittteee figure it out.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 27, 2020, 07:33:39 AM
Floriduh

So many people have been turned into drooling idiots completely devoid of any notion of citizenship or basic decency that they are willing to risk killing others because of politics.

Mask burning ceremony held in Florida
https://www.wfsb.com/mask-burning-ceremony-held-in-florida/article_f61f920d-5162-5b87-937b-6f47bd9b7f25.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=meredithHub&utm_campaign=1130&fbclid=IwAR0Rjhpvso93YBjR7vkLf7t96nOrwHsg0st8Iwi9ozCkXfG21hreyalPDnM

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 27, 2020, 08:11:09 AM
Floriduh

So many people have been turned into drooling idiots completely devoid of any notion of citizenship or basic decency that they are willing to risk killing others because of politics.

Mask burning ceremony held in Florida
https://www.wfsb.com/mask-burning-ceremony-held-in-florida/article_f61f920d-5162-5b87-937b-6f47bd9b7f25.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=meredithHub&utm_campaign=1130&fbclid=IwAR0Rjhpvso93YBjR7vkLf7t96nOrwHsg0st8Iwi9ozCkXfG21hreyalPDnM

Same people, different  millennium.

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-24-2017/l-uq5L.gif)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 27, 2020, 09:33:31 AM
Why wear a mask? Hartford, CT:
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 27, 2020, 11:17:22 AM
Of the 10 states with the highest rates of new coronavirus cases per capita according to a White House Coronavirus Task Force report this month, seven do not require residents to wear masks.

These seven states ALL have republican govs.


Yes, fighting Covid is a purely political war.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 27, 2020, 11:31:07 AM
Exactly, its why Rocket can't just type out, "yeah this is somewhat Trump's fault"

It would break his brain.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 27, 2020, 11:35:20 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/10/27/russia-implements-nationwide-mask-mandate-amid-covid-19-spike/#1168cb8e6952

Russia has issued a mask mandate.     (Insert obvious political joke here)      Hopefully, now America can do the same. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 27, 2020, 11:44:37 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/10/27/russia-implements-nationwide-mask-mandate-amid-covid-19-spike/#1168cb8e6952

Russia has issued a mask mandate.     (Insert obvious political joke here)      Hopefully, now America can do the same.

This is teed up for Trump.  BIDEN WANTS TO FORCE MASKS JUST LIKE THEY DO IN RUSSER.

And then the hogs go wild like they do at every rally.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 27, 2020, 01:26:05 PM
Well, if Putin says it is OK, I assume DJT will change his tune. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 27, 2020, 02:02:38 PM
Well, if Putin says it is OK, I assume DJT will change his tune.


But only if Vlad tells him to....
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 27, 2020, 06:07:10 PM
Store worker stabbed 27 times for asking customers to wear masks.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/10/27/21536171/jessica-jayla-hill-stabbing-store-west-side-homan-square-roosevelt-face-mask-covid
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 27, 2020, 07:00:38 PM
Store worker stabbed 27 times for asking customers to wear masks.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/10/27/21536171/jessica-jayla-hill-stabbing-store-west-side-homan-square-roosevelt-face-mask-covid

regardless of what happens next week, it's stuff like this that continues to convince me the country is too far gone to ever be "normal" again. People being stabbed, beat up, shot, etc. because they're asked to wear a mask? Seriously, this is beyond messed up. But why would we be surprised, the extremists have won the cultural wars on both sides (and hijacked the GOP). I am honestly fearful of what will likely happen in Portland next week. The antifa groups have already announced plans for "mobilization" and "direct action" via social media and we all know the white supremacists will be in down Election Night.  Cities are already boarding up and gun sales are up. Seriously, did you ever imagine this happening in the United States?

https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2020/10/police-fbi-prepare-for-potential-election-day-violence-as-gun-sales-up-businesses-board-windows.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 27, 2020, 08:34:00 PM
regardless of what happens next week, it's stuff like this that continues to convince me the country is too far gone to ever be "normal" again. People being stabbed, beat up, shot, etc. because they're asked to wear a mask? Seriously, this is beyond messed up. But why would we be surprised, the extremists have won the cultural wars on both sides (and hijacked the GOP). I am honestly fearful of what will likely happen in Portland next week. The antifa groups have already announced plans for "mobilization" and "direct action" via social media and we all know the white supremacists will be in down Election Night.  Cities are already boarding up and gun sales are up. Seriously, did you ever imagine this happening in the United States?

https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2020/10/police-fbi-prepare-for-potential-election-day-violence-as-gun-sales-up-businesses-board-windows.html

The country is broken in many respects and we don’t have the will to fix it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on October 27, 2020, 11:42:05 PM
regardless of what happens next week, it's stuff like this that continues to convince me the country is too far gone to ever be "normal" again. People being stabbed, beat up, shot, etc. because they're asked to wear a mask? Seriously, this is beyond messed up. But why would we be surprised, the extremists have won the cultural wars on both sides (and hijacked the GOP). I am honestly fearful of what will likely happen in Portland next week. The antifa groups have already announced plans for "mobilization" and "direct action" via social media and we all know the white supremacists will be in down Election Night.  Cities are already boarding up and gun sales are up. Seriously, did you ever imagine this happening in the United States?

https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2020/10/police-fbi-prepare-for-potential-election-day-violence-as-gun-sales-up-businesses-board-windows.html

Stay safe Billy. I’ll be hunkered down in far North well away from downtown.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 28, 2020, 08:27:12 AM
regardless of what happens next week, it's stuff like this that continues to convince me the country is too far gone to ever be "normal" again. People being stabbed, beat up, shot, etc. because they're asked to wear a mask? Seriously, this is beyond messed up. But why would we be surprised, the extremists have won the cultural wars on both sides (and hijacked the GOP). I am honestly fearful of what will likely happen in Portland next week. The antifa groups have already announced plans for "mobilization" and "direct action" via social media and we all know the white supremacists will be in down Election Night.  Cities are already boarding up and gun sales are up. Seriously, did you ever imagine this happening in the United States?

https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2020/10/police-fbi-prepare-for-potential-election-day-violence-as-gun-sales-up-businesses-board-windows.html


Stay safe, Billy!

I have a Canadian friend who has been visiting her mom in Ontario. She is planning to get back to the US by Election Day because she wants to be here for an historic day. While I understand the desire to witness history first hand, this seems like a day that could go scary wrong in so many ways. Frankly, I'd rather go visit her in Canada for a couple weeks, if I only could get across the border....
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 28, 2020, 12:25:43 PM
Stay safe Billy. I’ll be hunkered down in far North well away from downtown.

Thanks.  I'm in Goose Hollow, easy walking distance to the museum destroyed during the last "night of rage."

I was recently thinking back to 2008 when my wife and I were with thousands of others, packed together in Rockafeller Center. The feeling of excitement that night. The celebration when Barack Obama was declared the winner was so cool to be a part of. Even during McCain's concession speech people in the crowd were quiet and respectful. Down in East Village, there were celebrations in the streets, absolutely no damage, violence, or injuries. 12 years later we're anticipating violence, destruction, and legitimate concern about the election being stolen and a sitting President refusing the accept the results should he lose. It's unbelievable our country has devolved to this point in just four years.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 28, 2020, 12:29:20 PM
I'm a little freaked after reading the current Atlantic at lunchtime.

Article is titled: If the vote is close, Donald Trump could easily throw the election into chaos.  Who would stop him?



Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 28, 2020, 01:54:33 PM
I'm a little freaked after reading the current Atlantic at lunchtime.

Article is titled: If the vote is close, Donald Trump could easily throw the election into chaos.  Who would stop him?


Doubt it will be very close. At this point in 2016, Clinton's numbers were fading fast. Today, most of Biden's polling numbers are getting better.

And if the Covid numbers continue on their current path, in the weeks following the election we will be in a full-scale sh!tstorm of full hospitals, rationing of care, and even rural areas realizing it isn't a hoax.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 28, 2020, 01:55:31 PM
I'm a little freaked after reading the current Atlantic at lunchtime.

Article is titled: If the vote is close, Donald Trump could easily throw the election into chaos.  Who would stop him?

Why, patriotic republicans, of course.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 28, 2020, 01:58:15 PM
Why, patriotic republicans, of course.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
The last of the species seems to be Bob Dole, and he is like 106 years old.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 28, 2020, 02:17:09 PM

Doubt it will be very close. At this point in 2016, Clinton's numbers were fading fast. Today, most of Biden's polling numbers are getting better.

And if the Covid numbers continue on their current path, in the weeks following the election we will be in a full-scale sh!tstorm of full hospitals, rationing of care, and even rural areas realizing it isn't a hoax.

I agree.  I think it's headed to a Biden blowout which the article states would be the best case scenario as there would be little legal recourse.  The opinion in the article (after talking to a lot of people) seems to be that Trump still won't concede even if it's a blowout.  Apparently "conceding" only became a thing in 1896 when WJ Bryan conceded to William McKinley.  It became standard practice after that.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 28, 2020, 02:36:49 PM
I agree.  I think it's headed to a Biden blowout which the article states would be the best case scenario as there would be little legal recourse.  The opinion in the article (after talking to a lot of people) seems to be that Trump still won't concede even if it's a blowout.  Apparently "conceding" only became a thing in 1896 when WJ Bryan conceded to William McKinley.  It became standard practice after that.


Totally agree he won't go out gracefully. He could lose the biggest landslide in history, and would still go to his grave muttering about voter fraud and blaming Obama. It's just who he is.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 28, 2020, 03:04:13 PM

Totally agree he won't go out gracefully. He could lose the biggest landslide in history, and would still go to his grave muttering about voter fraud and blaming Obama. It's just who he is.

I think he vanishes and lets Pence run things for the next couple of months.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on October 28, 2020, 03:11:19 PM
I think he vanishes and lets Pence run things for the next couple of months.

That'll allow him some time to cover his tracks and escape some of the debtors.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 28, 2020, 03:13:58 PM
I think he vanishes and lets Pence run things for the next couple of months.

If only he had done that 3 1/2 years ago....

Seriously, that may be a possibility. He may take off (but not necessarily vanish) and spend the rest of the time tweeting about how he didn’t really want to be reelected anyway.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on October 28, 2020, 03:16:14 PM
That'll allow him some time to cover his tracks and escape some of the debtors.
as well as allow Pence to pardon him rather than pardoning himself.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on October 28, 2020, 03:28:48 PM
Thanks.  I'm in Goose Hollow, easy walking distance to the museum destroyed during the last "night of rage."

I was recently thinking back to 2008 when my wife and I were with thousands of others, packed together in Rockafeller Center. The feeling of excitement that night. The celebration when Barack Obama was declared the winner was so cool to be a part of. Even during McCain's concession speech people in the crowd were quiet and respectful. Down in East Village, there were celebrations in the streets, absolutely no damage, violence, or injuries. 12 years later we're anticipating violence, destruction, and legitimate concern about the election being stolen and a sitting President refusing the accept the results should he lose. It's unbelievable our country has devolved to this point in just four years.

Love that part of town. Goose Hollow Inn rules
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 28, 2020, 03:33:30 PM
Leaders lead:

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1321543754059231234?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 28, 2020, 03:37:52 PM
Leaders lead:

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1321543754059231234?s=19


I think its clear that Trump is using these last few days to fly around on his big plane and appeal to his base, because these rallies, and what he says at them, isn't going to inspire many to vote for him who haven't already decided to do so.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 28, 2020, 03:48:51 PM


I was recently thinking back to 2008 when my wife and I were with thousands of others, packed together in Rockafeller Center. The feeling of excitement that night. The celebration when Barack Obama was declared the winner was so cool to be a part of. Even during McCain's concession speech people in the crowd were quiet and respectful. Down in East Village, there were celebrations in the streets, absolutely no damage, violence, or injuries. 12 years later we're anticipating violence, destruction, and legitimate concern about the election being stolen and a sitting President refusing the accept the results should he lose. It's unbelievable our country has devolved to this point in just four years.

I was in Rockefeller Center that night as well. You are spot on as to the atmosphere there.

A really fun thing we did was going into the Rockefeller Center (surprisingly there was no security keeping people out). We went to a couple rooms where “experts” were talking on live TV. We also went up to a 3rd floor Internet cafe they had set up and sat on the window sill. Hundreds of people down below in the crowd waved at us as we waved out the window. We were even able to take the elevator up to where they record The Tonight Show (i believe).

This was obviously after 9/11 and I’m still surprised how little security there was as we wandered from floor to floor.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 28, 2020, 03:51:54 PM
Leaders lead:

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1321543754059231234?s=19

The word “buffoon” comes to mind. When his people wonder why we look at them as not too bright, this could be exhibit #1.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on October 28, 2020, 03:54:22 PM
I think he vanishes and lets Pence run things for the next couple of months.

He likes being a celebrity. He likes adoration and being on camera.

Perhaps starting or buying a TV network that he can star on?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 28, 2020, 04:25:33 PM
I was in Rockefeller Center that night as well. You are spot on as to the atmosphere there.

A really fun thing we did was going into the Rockefeller Center (surprisingly there was no security keeping people out). We went to a couple rooms where “experts” were talking on live TV. We also went up to a 3rd floor Internet cafe they had set up and sat on the window sill. Hundreds of people down below in the crowd waved at us as we waved out the window. We were even able to take the elevator up to where they record The Tonight Show (i believe).

This was obviously after 9/11 and I’m still surprised how little security there was as we wandered from floor to floor.

That's awesome you were able to roam around inside.

Two things I'll never forget about that night:

1 - this girl in front of us was boozing it up and freaking out over everything up on the screen. When the Kentucky polls closed that went up and with less than 1% Obama was up. She called her mom and started screaming and jumping up and down "Oh my god, we won Kentucky!!"

2 - we were all waiting on Ohio.  If Obama wins Ohio it's over. Well, NBC has yet to call it and my buddy calls me and says "Fox just called Ohio for Obama. It's f-ing over!!" I turn to my wife and say "Matt said Fox just called Ohio for Obama." Someone hears me and suddenly it's running through the crowd like wildfire. About 2 minutes later NBC calls Ohio. I was so glad he was right!!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 28, 2020, 04:38:01 PM
That's awesome you were able to roam around inside.

Two things I'll never forget about that night:

1 - this girl in front of us was boozing it up and freaking out over everything up on the screen. When the Kentucky polls closed that went up and with less than 1% Obama was up. She called her mom and started screaming and jumping up and down "Oh my god, we won Kentucky!!"

2 - we were all waiting on Ohio.  If Obama wins Ohio it's over. Well, NBC has yet to call it and my buddy calls me and says "Fox just called Ohio for Obama. It's f-ing over!!" I turn to my wife and say "Matt said Fox just called Ohio for Obama." Someone hears me and suddenly it's running through the crowd like wildfire. About 2 minutes later NBC calls Ohio. I was so glad he was right!!

I was in Grant Park. My buddy, who became a professional photographer, won awards from the photos he took that night. We then marched up Lake Michigan Ave chanting. what a night. In retrospect Palin cost McCain that election, if he'd picked a moderate R he wins IMO. Of course now days Palin would be considered a moderate R lol.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on October 28, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
Love that part of town. Goose Hollow Inn rules

their Reubens are incredible!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 29, 2020, 12:48:24 AM
Several of us were doing voter protection stuff in Milwaukee. We were on our way home to Chicago, sitting in the Brat Stop for a beer and some food, when Ohio was called.
We were also there in 2012. Covid is keeping me from being in Wisconsin this year.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 29, 2020, 08:17:38 AM
https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/florida-parents-sue-over-mask-mandate-for-students/

Florida gonna Florida
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 29, 2020, 08:26:31 AM
A room, a bar, a classroom. How the Coronavirus is spread through the air. This is well done:

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html?ssm=TW_CC
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 29, 2020, 01:54:27 PM
From one weather extreme in Omaha, to another in Tampa:

https://twitter.com/albamonica/status/1321883419673038860?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 29, 2020, 03:05:28 PM

I think its clear that Trump is using these last few days to fly around on his big plane and appeal to his base, because these rallies, and what he says at them, isn't going to inspire many to vote for him who haven't already decided to do so.

yeah right, cuz it didn't work for hillary either...no, wait...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 29, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
yeah right, cuz it didn't work for hillary either...no, wait...


Hillary was losing support for a couple of weeks prior to the election.  Biden's margins have been consistent since just after the first debate.  I also think with all of the early voting going on, that it really doesn't matter what either of them do because so many have already voted.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 29, 2020, 03:29:12 PM

Hillary was losing support for a couple of weeks prior to the election.  Biden's margins have been consistent since just after the first debate.  I also think with all of the early voting going on, that it really doesn't matter what either of them do because so many have already voted.

Worse yet, her favorability rating was terrible. People did not like her.

Biden does not suffer these problems. And worse yet for trump, seniors KNOW Biden.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on October 29, 2020, 03:48:17 PM
Worse yet, her favorability rating was terrible. People did not like her.

Biden does not suffer these problems. And worse yet for trump, seniors KNOW Biden.
And even worser for Trump, seniors now know Trump.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 29, 2020, 04:31:31 PM

Hillary was losing support for a couple of weeks prior to the election.  Biden's margins have been consistent since just after the first debate.  I also think with all of the early voting going on, that it really doesn't matter what either of them do because so many have already voted.


Yep. According to Nate Silver's site, Clinton had a 2.9% lead on Nov. 3 (five days before the election). As of today, Biden holds an 8.8% lead. That is exactly 3 times Clinton's lead.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/

And as you said, there's a lot less room for Trump to do damage in the last 5 days this year, given the mind-blowing number of ballots that have been accepted. We are at over 80 million as I type this - almost 60% of the total 2016 turnout, and about 53% of projected turnout this year.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 29, 2020, 05:11:52 PM
Yep. According to Nate Silver's site, Clinton had a 2.9% lead on Nov. 3 (five days before the election). As of today, Biden holds an 8.8% lead. That is exactly 3 times Clinton's lead.



She won by 2.1%. Wow, the polls were really way off. Only a once in a lifetime fluke of 77,000 meant a loss.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 29, 2020, 05:46:50 PM
In 2016, Trump failed to get 50% in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan.   The Greens and the libertarians peeled off a large number of votes.    Now that Trump has a record, this election really comes down to Trump and his record.   The Greens and Libertarians aren't going to get 5 % of the vote nationally.   So, this election is about unifying the 54% of Americans who voted 'not Trump' in 2016.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on October 29, 2020, 06:11:39 PM
In 2016, Trump failed to get 50% in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan.   The Greens and the libertarians peeled off a large number of votes.    Now that Trump has a record, this election really comes down to Trump and his record.   The Greens and Libertarians aren't going to get 5 % of the vote nationally.   So, this election is about unifying the 54% of Americans who voted 'not Trump' in 2016.

While this may be true based on statistics, I hate the implication.

If the outside parties obtained votes that Dems or GOP felt should have gone to them, then they should have done more to earn those votes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 29, 2020, 06:17:05 PM
While this may be true based on statistics, I hate the implication.

If the outside parties obtained votes that Dems or GOP felt should have gone to them, then they should have done more to earn those votes.


No question. There is little Hillary could have done down the stretch to make more people ‘like’ her, but the fact that she essentially ignored the rust belt was totally on her. Biden is not making the same mistake.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on October 29, 2020, 08:29:50 PM

No question. There is little Hillary could have done down the stretch to make more people ‘like’ her, but the fact that she essentially ignored the rust belt was totally on her. Biden is not making the same mistake.

Either party/candidate last year or this year could pick some pretty populist economic policies to offer and earn way more votes. Instead we're just gonna shout about cultural/social issues
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 29, 2020, 08:39:21 PM
Either party/candidate last year or this year could pick some pretty populist economic policies to offer and earn way more votes. Instead we're just gonna shout about cultural/social issues

I saw a graphic the other day showing  that every presidential election since the 1940s has gone to the candidate that is viewed as better on the top issue on voters‘ minds. In this election, that’s Covid. As a result, Biden is smart to continue talking about how poorly Trump has done, and Trump has no choice but to try to convince people he is doing a good job.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on October 29, 2020, 10:18:58 PM
Yep. According to Nate Silver's site, Clinton had a 2.9% lead on Nov. 3 (five days before the election). As of today, Biden holds an 8.8% lead. That is exactly 3 times Clinton's lead.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/

And as you said, there's a lot less room for Trump to do damage in the last 5 days this year, given the mind-blowing number of ballots that have been accepted. We are at over 80 million as I type this - almost 60% of the total 2016 turnout, and about 53% of projected turnout this year.

Also, many of the polls that were off admitted their polling strategy was off, they've adjusted their sampling to account for the errors in 2016, so there should be less polls that are significantly off.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 29, 2020, 10:26:52 PM
Also, many of the polls that were off admitted their polling strategy was off, they've adjusted their sampling to account for the errors in 2016, so there should be less polls that are significantly off.

NBC - and probably other networks are doing some interesting and innovative things on election night.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Mutaman on October 29, 2020, 10:46:06 PM

No question. There is little Hillary could have done down the stretch to make more people ‘like’ her, but the fact that she essentially ignored the rust belt was totally on her.

Russ Feingold didn't ignore it- how'd that work out?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 29, 2020, 10:47:37 PM
Also, many of the polls that were off admitted their polling strategy was off, they've adjusted their sampling to account for the errors in 2016, so there should be less polls that are significantly off.

The beautiful thing is that we’ll get to find out on Nov. 3 (or Dec 3 or ... ).
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 29, 2020, 10:51:38 PM
Russ Feingold didn't ignore it- how'd that work out?


He was running for a Senate seat in Wisconsin so he focused on the only state that mattered...and on the only state his opponent focused on.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Mutaman on October 29, 2020, 10:58:08 PM

He was running for a Senate seat in Wisconsin so he focused on the only state that mattered...and on the only state his opponent focused on.

So what?

In any event:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2016/11/11/why-hillary-clinton-lost-pennsylvania-the-real-story/
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 29, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
So what?

In any event:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2016/11/11/why-hillary-clinton-lost-pennsylvania-the-real-story/


I don’t know anything about the race in Pennsylvania. I was only talking about Wisconsin.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 30, 2020, 12:19:17 AM
A Michigan church that did not require masks has been linked to 58 cases, health officials say. Many were exposed to the virus at a youth service on Oct. 11, according to the local health department. Others might have been exposed at events the week before and after. Five people were hospitalized and four remain in inpatient care, the health department said. “The number of cases and hospitalizations may rise in the coming days due to further spread of COVID-19 and discovery of additional cases,” the health department said.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/coronavirus/article246808282.html?ac_cid=DM312405&ac_bid=-1599210424

Or, as the president says, it affects virtually nobody.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on October 30, 2020, 07:52:22 AM
A Michigan church that did not require masks has been linked to 58 cases, health officials say. Many were exposed to the virus at a youth service on Oct. 11, according to the local health department. Others might have been exposed at events the week before and after. Five people were hospitalized and four remain in inpatient care, the health department said. “The number of cases and hospitalizations may rise in the coming days due to further spread of COVID-19 and discovery of additional cases,” the health department said.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/coronavirus/article246808282.html?ac_cid=DM312405&ac_bid=-1599210424

Or, as the president says, it affects virtually nobody.

a 99.9% survival rate if you are under 70, and if you are over 70, it's still almost 95%. Now, do me a favor and go to the CDC website and tell me what the data says for people that have died of ONLY the virus. I don't want to hear any other garbage about "well but"...just tell me how many people have died from ONLY the virus and report back to me. By the way...winter is coming Mike.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2020, 08:07:46 AM
a 99.9% survival rate if you are under 70, and if you are over 70, it's still almost 95%. Now, do me a favor and go to the CDC website and tell me what the data says for people that have died of ONLY the virus. I don't want to hear any other garbage about "well but"...just tell me how many people have died from ONLY the virus and report back to me. By the way...winter is coming Mike.

People don't typically die from one thing, ever.  Even deaths counted as the flu in a typical season aren't JUST the flu.  This year there are 300,000 more deaths in the US this year than there would be in a typical year.

Statistically speaking, nearly all of those deaths are Covid related.  And this is after we have done quite a bit to reduce spread.  1% of people die if we do everything the way we have and mitigate the spread and have available hospital space.  1% of the US population is 3.2 million people.  You're cool with 3.2 million?  I'm not.  That's half the god damned holocaust.  WITH US DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN DO TO STOP THIS (or rather some of us are willing to do).  If you want society to just pretend it's the flu, then we can't possibly treat everyone who shows up to the hospital.  Many, many more people will die without health care.   Not to mention the doctors and nurses we lose in the process.  How do you propose we deal with this problem?  Hire more docs and nurses?  Find more beds?  What fantasy world do you live in?

I'm sorry you don't understand these things.  I'm sorry you don't wish to learn about them.  I'm sorry your donkey brain is broken and refuses to critically think.

We can't help you, if you're not willing to help yourself.  Go play in the street with the other mouth breathers.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on October 30, 2020, 08:25:18 AM
a 99.9% survival rate if you are under 70, and if you are over 70, it's still almost 95%. Now, do me a favor and go to the CDC website and tell me what the data says for people that have died of ONLY the virus. I don't want to hear any other garbage about "well but"...just tell me how many people have died from ONLY the virus and report back to me. By the way...winter is coming Mike.

How many people die from ONLY HIV/AIDS?

How many people die from ONLY high cholesterol?

How many people die from ONLY high blood pressure?

How many people die from ONLY diabetes?

The answer is not very many. So why do we work so hard in medicine to treat/control these problems?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 30, 2020, 08:28:07 AM
a 99.9% survival rate if you are under 70, and if you are over 70, it's still almost 95%. Now, do me a favor and go to the CDC website and tell me what the data says for people that have died of ONLY the virus. I don't want to hear any other garbage about "well but"...just tell me how many people have died from ONLY the virus and report back to me. By the way...winter is coming Mike.

I don't believe you understand how death works.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 30, 2020, 09:18:34 AM
In 2016, Trump failed to get 50% in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan.   The Greens and the libertarians peeled off a large number of votes.    Now that Trump has a record, this election really comes down to Trump and his record.   The Greens and Libertarians aren't going to get 5 % of the vote nationally.   So, this election is about unifying the 54% of Americans who voted 'not Trump' in 2016.

And in addition to the record number of people who didn't vote at all in 2016, but are in 2020.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 30, 2020, 09:31:00 AM
And in addition to the record number of people who didn't vote at all in 2016, but are in 2020.

100 million eligible voters didn't vote in 2016.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 30, 2020, 10:01:01 AM
100 million eligible voters didn't vote in 2016.

20 million illegal immigrants did, though
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 30, 2020, 10:17:24 AM
a 99.9% survival rate if you are under 70, and if you are over 70, it's still almost 95%. Now, do me a favor and go to the CDC website and tell me what the data says for people that have died of ONLY the virus. I don't want to hear any other garbage about "well but"...just tell me how many people have died from ONLY the virus and report back to me. By the way...winter is coming Mike.


So you're going to come back here after three-plus months, with hospitals nearing capacity in Wisconsin, STILL posting this garbage???
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 30, 2020, 10:18:02 AM
And in addition to the record number of people who didn't vote at all in 2016, but are in 2020.


Well many of those will vote for Trump.  That's how he won in 2016.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on October 30, 2020, 10:24:33 AM

So you're going to come back here after three-plus months, with hospitals nearing capacity in Wisconsin, STILL posting this garbage???

Wisconsin isn't going to continue breaking records without people like him!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 30, 2020, 11:15:42 AM
An intensive care nurse from Wisconsin called into WGN yesterday. His account was sobering and chilling, talking about the amount of people that have been admitted to the his ICU in recent days. It was staggering.
He also mentioned that he had recently treated a denier, who at the beginning was sure they wanted to give him drugs as an experiment, until they had to treat him with so much stuff that he realized this wasn’t fake, and literally asked if he was going to die.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: SERocks on October 30, 2020, 11:34:52 AM
An intensive care nurse from Wisconsin called into WGN yesterday. His account was sobering and chilling, talking about the amount of people that have been admitted to the his ICU in recent days. It was staggering.
He also mentioned that he had recently treated a denier, who at the beginning was sure they wanted to give him drugs as an experiment, until they had to treat him with so much stuff that he realized this wasn’t fake, and literally asked if he was going to die.

Any idea if that interview is available anywhere?  I would love to listen to it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on October 30, 2020, 11:43:43 AM
People don't typically die from one thing, ever.  Even deaths counted as the flu in a typical season aren't JUST the flu.  This year there are 300,000 more deaths in the US this year than there would be in a typical year.

Statistically speaking, nearly all of those deaths are Covid related.  And this is after we have done quite a bit to reduce spread.  1% of people die if we do everything the way we have and mitigate the spread and have available hospital space.  1% of the US population is 3.2 million people.  You're cool with 3.2 million?  I'm not.  That's half the god damned holocaust.  WITH US DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN DO TO STOP THIS (or rather some of us are willing to do).  If you want society to just pretend it's the flu, then we can't possibly treat everyone who shows up to the hospital.  Many, many more people will die without health care.   Not to mention the doctors and nurses we lose in the process.  How do you propose we deal with this problem?  Hire more docs and nurses?  Find more beds?  What fantasy world do you live in?

I'm sorry you don't understand these things.  I'm sorry you don't wish to learn about them.  I'm sorry your donkey brain is broken and refuses to critically think.

We can't help you, if you're not willing to help yourself.  Go play in the street with the other mouth breathers.

In case you haven't noticed, we are nowhere near 3.2 million deaths right now from covid. Dr. Birx early on said herself that if we did EVERYTHING perfectly, we could still expect a minumum of 200,000 deaths. That's fact. She said that. What I don't like is all of you people sit here and run your mouths but don't offer a single solution of how to improve it. This isn't just a US problem, it's a world problem. Cases are spiking all over the world and this is in some countries that have had STRICT mask mandates for several months now. Lock downs are NOT the answer, there's enough medical experts on record now that have stated as such. Masks are NOT the answer(or cases wouldn't be spiking the way they are). It's tragic, one death is too many(something our President has said MANY times) but the fact is, this was always going to be a problem one way or another until a vaccine came along to at least help with that. That's coming soon.

But when some people focus entirely on # of CASES(and yes, many many many people do that) it baffles me, when you consider the fact it has a 99% survival rate.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on October 30, 2020, 11:55:45 AM
In case you haven't noticed, we are nowhere near 3.2 million deaths right now from covid. Dr. Birx early on said herself that if we did EVERYTHING perfectly, we could still expect a minumum of 200,000 deaths. That's fact. She said that. What I don't like is all of you people sit here and run your mouths but don't offer a single solution of how to improve it. This isn't just a US problem, it's a world problem. Cases are spiking all over the world and this is in some countries that have had STRICT mask mandates for several months now. Lock downs are NOT the answer, there's enough medical experts on record now that have stated as such. Masks are NOT the answer(or cases wouldn't be spiking the way they are). It's tragic, one death is too many(something our President has said MANY times) but the fact is, this was always going to be a problem one way or another until a vaccine came along to at least help with that. That's coming soon.

But when some people focus entirely on # of CASES(and yes, many many many people do that) it baffles me, when you consider the fact it has a 99% survival rate.
Dr. Birx early on said herself that if we did EVERYTHING perfectly, we could still expect a minumum of 200,000 deaths. Well we've burned through that level with no end in site so I guess even you might have to admit that we didn't do everything perfectly aina?

In your experience does everyone wear a mask? I'm invited to a wedding reception @ The Golden Mast in 5 weeks. When we called the Golden Mast to find what measures they are taking I was asked if I was familiar with the Lake country because per them on a good day only 25% are masked out there.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 30, 2020, 11:58:44 AM
In case you haven't noticed, we are nowhere near 3.2 million deaths right now from covid. Dr. Birx early on said herself that if we did EVERYTHING perfectly, we could still expect a minumum of 200,000 deaths. That's fact. She said that. What I don't like is all of you people sit here and run your mouths but don't offer a single solution of how to improve it. This isn't just a US problem, it's a world problem. Cases are spiking all over the world and this is in some countries that have had STRICT mask mandates for several months now. Lock downs are NOT the answer, there's enough medical experts on record now that have stated as such. Masks are NOT the answer(or cases wouldn't be spiking the way they are). It's tragic, one death is too many(something our President has said MANY times) but the fact is, this was always going to be a problem one way or another until a vaccine came along to at least help with that. That's coming soon.

But when some people focus entirely on # of CASES(and yes, many many many people do that) it baffles me, when you consider the fact it has a 99% survival rate.


People focus on cases because it leads to deaths.

Even if you use your 99% figure, that means that 1 in 100 of the people diagnosed will die.  Over the last week, nearly 30,000 new cases were diagnosed in Wisconsin.  Even with a 99% survival rate, 300 of those people will die.  300 a week would dwarf how many people die historically on average each week from other causes - 50% more than all cancers combined.  (Now my guess is that death rates will continue to decrease because of our ability to treat it...but still.)

So that's why people focus on number of cases.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 30, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
I laughed, sad on both parts:

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1322233547319660546?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2020, 12:52:33 PM
In case you haven't noticed, we are nowhere near 3.2 million deaths right now from covid. Dr. Birx early on said herself that if we did EVERYTHING perfectly, we could still expect a minumum of 200,000 deaths. That's fact. She said that. What I don't like is all of you people sit here and run your mouths but don't offer a single solution of how to improve it. This isn't just a US problem, it's a world problem. Cases are spiking all over the world and this is in some countries that have had STRICT mask mandates for several months now. Lock downs are NOT the answer, there's enough medical experts on record now that have stated as such. Masks are NOT the answer(or cases wouldn't be spiking the way they are). It's tragic, one death is too many(something our President has said MANY times) but the fact is, this was always going to be a problem one way or another until a vaccine came along to at least help with that. That's coming soon.

But when some people focus entirely on # of CASES(and yes, many many many people do that) it baffles me, when you consider the fact it has a 99% survival rate.

I have noticed we aren't near 3.2 million deaths.  But you JUST IN THIS POST said you're fine with 1% of people dying.  YOU SAID YOU'RE FINE WITH IT.  YOUR WORDS. 1% of 320 million people is 3.2 million.  That's what you're fine with.  Your words, not mine.

I'm not surprised that things baffle you.  I imagine your daily existence is filled with this sentiment.  Europe is blowing up with cases now because they got lazy in August and everyone traveled for their yearly holiday.  They flattened their curve and curtailed cases, and then got lazy.  I wish we had that sort of discipline.  Instead, we have insane people like you who claim (without scientific evidence) that masks don't work.  And that lockdowns don't work (they do).  You ingest that garbage from your preferred media that swears that it is everyone else that is lying to you. 

You're hopeless, bro.  Stick to MU basketball recruiting news.  Science and politics aren't your forte.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 30, 2020, 12:57:54 PM
Dr. Birx early on said herself that if we did EVERYTHING perfectly, we could still expect a minumum of 200,000 deaths. Well we've burned through that level with no end in site so I guess even you might have to admit that we didn't do everything perfectly aina?

In your experience does everyone wear a mask? I'm invited to a wedding reception @ The Golden Mast in 5 weeks. When we called the Golden Mast to find what measures they are taking I was asked if I was familiar with the Lake country because per them on a good day only 25% are masked out there.

And if you look at their rate of infection it’s no different, actually lower then a lot of the surrounding counties.  🤷‍♂️  I’m not arguing that masks are useless or shouldn’t be worn but if you look at infection rates locally, nationally, or even globally it doesn’t seem to make much of a difference. 

It’s common sense that they don’t hurt anything So why not wear one but the obsession around it is a little confusing to me.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 30, 2020, 01:16:36 PM
In case you haven't noticed, we are nowhere near 3.2 million deaths right now from covid. Dr. Birx early on said herself that if we did EVERYTHING perfectly, we could still expect a minumum of 200,000 deaths. That's fact. She said that. What I don't like is all of you people sit here and run your mouths but don't offer a single solution of how to improve it. This isn't just a US problem, it's a world problem. Cases are spiking all over the world and this is in some countries that have had STRICT mask mandates for several months now. Lock downs are NOT the answer, there's enough medical experts on record now that have stated as such. Masks are NOT the answer(or cases wouldn't be spiking the way they are). It's tragic, one death is too many(something our President has said MANY times) but the fact is, this was always going to be a problem one way or another until a vaccine came along to at least help with that. That's coming soon.

But when some people focus entirely on # of CASES(and yes, many many many people do that) it baffles me, when you consider the fact it has a 99% survival rate.

You're right, guru. Your emperor has handled the pandemic absolutely perfectly. Every single step of the way, every decision, pure genius.

The 60%+ of Americans who feel otherwise are losers, as are all the dead and sick people.

I mean, all it took to get your emperor healthy last month was the around-the-clock attention of two dozen top medical personnel at one of the best hospitals in the country, and all of the best medication, including experimental drugs. In other words, just the kind of care available to any of the folks who get sick attending his super-spreader rallies.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 30, 2020, 01:22:17 PM
SERicks, the nurse called in during an interview on WGN radio that Anna Davlantes was doing with McHenry County Board chair Jack Franks about the new restrictions- it is possible that it may get posted at some point on the WGN site.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Big Papi on October 30, 2020, 01:42:52 PM
IAnd that lockdowns don't work (they do).

Of course lockdowns work.  If everyone stayed at home 100% of the time for who knows how long, no one would get or die from COVID.  So no food, no doctor appointments, no nothing but as soon as you list one exception, its over.

Trump is an idiot but lets not fool ourselves.  No one got it right.  Biden wouldn't of got it right either.  Less deaths?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  More economic hardship?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Saving grace for golden boy Biden is that he wasn't the president when this occurred. 

Its easy to say Trump got it wrong.  Yeah he did.  So has everyone else.  It would be different if every other country had minimal cases except us right now but that doesn't look to be the case.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2020, 02:06:11 PM
Of course lockdowns work.  If everyone stayed at home 100% of the time for who knows how long, no one would get or die from COVID.  So no food, no doctor appointments, no nothing but as soon as you list one exception, its over.

Trump is an idiot but lets not fool ourselves.  No one got it right.  Biden wouldn't of got it right either.  Less deaths?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  More economic hardship?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Saving grace for golden boy Biden is that he wasn't the president when this occurred. 

Its easy to say Trump got it wrong.  Yeah he did.  So has everyone else.  It would be different if every other country had minimal cases except us right now but that doesn't look to be the case.   

Sure it does.  Everyone else did better than the US.  Literally every other country.  We have the most cases.  The most deaths.  We did a terrible job.  And the guy in charge has hurt our response from day zero.

We can play the maybe/maybe not game all day, but worst in the world isn't something I'd like associated with the US. 

I have said this from the very start of this pandemic.  Here is what the plan should have been.

1.  Close borders.
2.  Allow people a month to prepare for 3 week total lockdown.  Medical only.  Groceries are delivery only, and people should have prepared.
3.  If you're sick, you stay at your house and ride it out if you can.  If you get too sick, you get to the hospital.

and then after the 3 weeks we are DONE.  We keep borders closed, and test anyone coming into the country, and force them to quarantine for two weeks.  Longer if they're positive.

My plan would have had us out of the woods in May.  Instead, here we are in October, with a ton of dead people, and a shattered economy, and we aren't even looking at the light at the end of the tunnel.

Problem is, people don't want to do what is hard.  They have to limp our society to it's doom instead of doing a two month wartime mobilization... because 'muh freedums'.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on October 30, 2020, 02:12:39 PM
I have noticed we aren't near 3.2 million deaths.  But you JUST IN THIS POST said you're fine with 1% of people dying.  YOU SAID YOU'RE FINE WITH IT.  YOUR WORDS. 1% of 320 million people is 3.2 million.  That's what you're fine with.  Your words, not mine.

I'm not surprised that things baffle you.  I imagine your daily existence is filled with this sentiment.  Europe is blowing up with cases now because they got lazy in August and everyone traveled for their yearly holiday.  They flattened their curve and curtailed cases, and then got lazy.  I wish we had that sort of discipline.  Instead, we have insane people like you who claim (without scientific evidence) that masks don't work.  And that lockdowns don't work (they do).  You ingest that garbage from your preferred media that swears that it is everyone else that is lying to you. 

You're hopeless, bro.  Stick to MU basketball recruiting news.  Science and politics aren't your forte.


NEVER EVER EVER said that, but you and many others seem to perpetuate this myth, that if things were done right(in your views) there would have NEVER been a single death. That's what you are implying. A total and complete impossibility. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 30, 2020, 02:21:38 PM
And if you look at their rate of infection it’s no different, actually lower then a lot of the surrounding counties.  🤷‍♂️  I’m not arguing that masks are useless or shouldn’t be worn but if you look at infection rates locally, nationally, or even globally it doesn’t seem to make much of a difference. 



This just isn't true. There is tons of date to support the statement that masks make a difference.

To be clear, the science supports using masks, with recent studies suggesting that they could save lives in different ways: research shows that they cut down the chances of both transmitting and catching the coronavirus, and some studies hint that masks might reduce the severity of infection if people do contract the disease.


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 30, 2020, 02:27:12 PM
This just isn't true. There is tons of date to support the statement that masks make a difference.

To be clear, the science supports using masks, with recent studies suggesting that they could save lives in different ways: research shows that they cut down the chances of both transmitting and catching the coronavirus, and some studies hint that masks might reduce the severity of infection if people do contract the disease.


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

Agree 100%, in theory it makes all the sense in the world.  Was just pointing out that when it comes to results and actual infection rate data that communities are seeing it doesn’t appear to make much of a difference.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUfan12 on October 30, 2020, 02:32:24 PM
To be clear, the science supports using masks, with recent studies suggesting that they could save lives in different ways: research shows that they cut down the chances of both transmitting and catching the coronavirus, and some studies hint that masks might reduce the severity of infection if people do contract the disease.


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

I'm becoming more and more convinced that the real value in masks is more reducing the inoculum rather than truly limiting spread.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: SERocks on October 30, 2020, 03:12:55 PM
SERicks, the nurse called in during an interview on WGN radio that Anna Davlantes was doing with McHenry County Board chair Jack Franks about the new restrictions- it is possible that it may get posted at some point on the WGN site.

Thanks.  I'll watch for it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 30, 2020, 03:29:07 PM
Replaying right now!!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 30, 2020, 03:32:05 PM
One of his points is that when they get slammed with new admits, they cannot spend the time needed with the patients they already have.
Replay done now.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 30, 2020, 03:36:03 PM
Sure it does.  Everyone else did better than the US.  Literally every other country.  We have the most cases.  The most deaths.  We did a terrible job.  And the guy in charge has hurt our response from day zero.

We can play the maybe/maybe not game all day, but worst in the world isn't something I'd like associated with the US. 

I have said this from the very start of this pandemic.  Here is what the plan should have been.

1.  Close borders.
2.  Allow people a month to prepare for 3 week total lockdown.  Medical only.  Groceries are delivery only, and people should have prepared.
3.  If you're sick, you stay at your house and ride it out if you can.  If you get too sick, you get to the hospital.

and then after the 3 weeks we are DONE.  We keep borders closed, and test anyone coming into the country, and force them to quarantine for two weeks.  Longer if they're positive.

My plan would have had us out of the woods in May.  Instead, here we are in October, with a ton of dead people, and a shattered economy, and we aren't even looking at the light at the end of the tunnel.

Problem is, people don't want to do what is hard.  They have to limp our society to it's doom instead of doing a two month wartime mobilization... because 'muh freedums'.


Right.  I have said it since the Spring.  Discipline on the front end would get us out of this earlier.  But we chose not to take the tough, short route.  We had to "LIBERATE" and all that did was make the short-term easier but make the road much longer and deadlier.

Look at what Germany is doing.  They are paying bars, restaurants, and other businesses where people congregate without masks to close for the next month, while keeping schools and shops open.  And when things get better, they will reopen.  This is an incredibly reasonable approach.

Our approach OTOH, is believing we are "turning the corner" and hoping and praying for an effective vaccine.  It's not a plan.

This is why other countries pity us.  This is why our "America First!" language is met with eyerolls around the world.  We'd be a laughingstock if it weren't so tragic.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 30, 2020, 03:56:53 PM
I'm becoming more and more convinced that the real value in masks is more reducing the inoculum rather than truly limiting spread.


It doesn't have to be an either/or. Reducing the inoculum might very well lead to reduced spread, because if you breathe in a tiny amount of virus, you might clear it so quickly you'd never be contagious or test positive.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2020, 04:07:47 PM

NEVER EVER EVER said that, but you and many others seem to perpetuate this myth, that if things were done right(in your views) there would have NEVER been a single death. That's what you are implying. A total and complete impossibility.

You're too stupid to argue with.  You said 99% of people survive.  Which means 1% don't.  And you also said it baffles you that people care about case numbers.  Well 1% of those people are going to die.  And you're fine with that.  God forbid you or someone you love is part of that 1%.

What is your solution?  Herd immunity?  Keep up the shlt show we have until we have a vaccine that 1/3 of the population won't take? 

You've already said masks and lockdowns don't work (you're wrong) so what do you propose?  You've got no plan.  Your leader has no plan.

#trump2020voter
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUfan12 on October 30, 2020, 04:15:49 PM
It doesn't have to be an either/or. Reducing the inoculum might very well lead to reduced spread, because if you breathe in a tiny amount of virus, you might clear it so quickly you'd never be contagious or test positive.

Good point.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on October 30, 2020, 04:51:22 PM

Right.  I have said it since the Spring.  Discipline on the front end would get us out of this earlier.  But we chose not to take the tough, short route.  We had to "LIBERATE" and all that did was make the short-term easier but make the road much longer and deadlier.

Look at what Germany is doing.  They are paying bars, restaurants, and other businesses where people congregate without masks to close for the next month, while keeping schools and shops open.  And when things get better, they will reopen.  This is an incredibly reasonable approach.

Our approach OTOH, is believing we are "turning the corner" and hoping and praying for an effective vaccine.  It's not a plan.

This is why other countries pity us.  This is why our "America First!" language is met with eyerolls around the world.  We'd be a laughingstock if it weren't so tragic.

Can you imagine the reaction if a politician even proposed the idea of nationalizing wages?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 30, 2020, 05:11:16 PM
Can you imagine the reaction if a politician even proposed the idea of nationalizing wages?

It’s just the PPP expanded.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: #UnleashSean on October 30, 2020, 05:56:19 PM
Sure it does.  Everyone else did better than the US.  Literally every other country.  We have the most cases.  The most deaths. 

USA actually ranks 13th in total cases when calculating ratio of infected per million and 10 in deaths (with plenty of other countries very close) and let's not get started with the whole who's reporting what.

So there's at least 9 countries worse.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 30, 2020, 06:22:23 PM
USA actually ranks 13th in total cases when calculating ratio of infected per million and 10 in deaths (with plenty of other countries very close) and let's not get started with the whole who's reporting what.

So there's at least 9 countries worse.

Yeah, but among them are San Marino and Andorra.
Anyhow, we're pretty much in the bottom 10 percent. Given our resources, that's pitiful.

Of course, things probably would be much better if we weren't playing doctors more for every dead COVID patient.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muguru on October 30, 2020, 06:47:22 PM
You're too stupid to argue with.  You said 99% of people survive.  Which means 1% don't.  And you also said it baffles you that people care about case numbers.  Well 1% of those people are going to die.  And you're fine with that.  God forbid you or someone you love is part of that 1%.

What is your solution?  Herd immunity?  Keep up the shlt show we have until we have a vaccine that 1/3 of the population won't take? 

You've already said masks and lockdowns don't work (you're wrong) so what do you propose?  You've got no plan.  Your leader has no plan.

#trump2020voter

Locking down the country will NOT work. Look what Sweden did...no lock downs, no mask mandates and wah lah...they became the envy of other countries. Yes, they started out with a very high death rate, but it dissipated by doing nothing different. Just because you couldn't care less for those people/businesses that would lose their jobs/livelihoods with your mandated strict 3 month lock down, doesn't mean others don't. Not to mention the higher suicide rates(that's been proven), the drinking and drug abuse increases, the emotional trauma that comes from lock downs. These are ALL VERY real and proven things. Besides I can 100% guarantee you EVEN after your mandated 3 month strict lock down and mask wearing, that people would still get it. It's not a magic bullet.

My dad had covid about 3 weeks ago...had slight fever some sniffles for a couple days and it was done. Yes, he's one example, but still just sayin'. Life is a risk, everything we do daily is a risk, right??

I mean just because you wear a mask in your car alone and likely when you go to bed, doesn't mean everyone should have to do exactly like you do, or that it's the best way.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 30, 2020, 07:01:45 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-herd-immunity-sweden-covid-cases-anders-tegnell-b1421541.html

Sweden’s version of Dr. Fauci blasts the idea of herd immunity without a vaccine. Also, their cases are rising, and on their TripAdvisor board, a local reported that some museums are closed, and guidelines have been issued telling people not to socialize outside their households, to limit trips from home, to not go to indoor places like restaurants, shops and museums, keep social distance....guidelines instead of rules because the Swedes will abide by them voluntarily ( the poster’s words, not mine). Unlike here.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 30, 2020, 07:04:06 PM
Look what Sweden did...no lock downs, no mask mandates and wah lah...they became the envy of other countries. Yes, they started out with a very high death rate, but it dissipated by doing nothing different.

Sweden's done with it?  Certainly looks like their cases have spiked and deaths will follow in about 3 weeks unfortunately.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

I don't think many countries envied Sweden's approach.  Even Sweden admitted their initial strategy was wrong, and started recommending people take more precautions.

Glad to hear your father recovered without incident.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on October 30, 2020, 07:11:56 PM
Sweden's done with it?  Certainly looks like their cases have spiked and deaths will follow in about 3 weeks unfortunately.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

I don't think many countries envied Sweden's approach.  Even Sweden admitted their initial strategy was wrong, and started recommending people take more precautions.

Glad to hear your father recovered without incident.


Yep. And the data showed that their economy did not fare any better than the other countries in Scandinavia.

Bad experiment.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 30, 2020, 07:14:16 PM
Sweden's done with it?  Certainly looks like their cases have spiked and deaths will follow in about 3 weeks unfortunately.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

I don't think many countries envied Sweden's approach.  Even Sweden admitted their initial strategy was wrong, and started recommending people take more precautions.

This.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-herd-immunity-sweden-covid-cases-anders-tegnell-b1421541.html

Sweden’s version of Dr. Fauci blasts the idea of herd immunity without a vaccine. Also, their cases are rising, and on their TripAdvisor board, a local reported that some museums are closed, and guidelines have been issued telling people not to socialize outside their households, to limit trips from home, to not go to indoor places like restaurants, shops and museums, keep social distance....guidelines instead of rules because the Swedes will abide by them voluntarily ( the poster’s words, not mine). Unlike here.
And this.

Beyond that ... even after saying, "Let our people die; we're going to save our economy," Sweden's economy STILL tanked.

It turns out that most sensible folks change their behavior when there is a deadly, highly contagious virus out there. Even if a city or state or country says, "Go wild," so many people opt not to go wild that the economy can't help but be adversely affected.

Control the virus, save the economy. There are no shortcuts. Sorry, not even the miraculous hydroxycloroquine that Trump and guru's girlfriend, Dr. Demon Seed, was pushing.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 30, 2020, 07:29:57 PM
Locking down the country will NOT work. Look what Sweden did...no lock downs, no mask mandates and wah lah...they became the envy of other countries. Yes, they started out with a very high death rate, but it dissipated by doing nothing different. Just because you couldn't care less for those people/businesses that would lose their jobs/livelihoods with your mandated strict 3 month lock down, doesn't mean others don't. Not to mention the higher suicide rates(that's been proven), the drinking and drug abuse increases, the emotional trauma that comes from lock downs. These are ALL VERY real and proven things. Besides I can 100% guarantee you EVEN after your mandated 3 month strict lock down and mask wearing, that people would still get it. It's not a magic bullet.

My dad had covid about 3 weeks ago...had slight fever some sniffles for a couple days and it was done. Yes, he's one example, but still just sayin'. Life is a risk, everything we do daily is a risk, right??

I mean just because you wear a mask in your car alone and likely when you go to bed, doesn't mean everyone should have to do exactly like you do, or that it's the best way.

First things first, Sweden has been beaten to death here.  You're out of your element.  You can look at the numbers yourself, but you'd rather listen to what a couple of freaks on the internet say.  And they're liars.  They're bait for objectively stupid people (you).  Second, I said 3 WEEKS.  Reading is fundamental.  Third, we've been at this for 7 months at this point, and you still can't come up with a plan.  My plan had this basically over in May.

As for the bolded part, they don't have to, but yes, it is the best way.  If people acted like me, maybe we could have had a summer.  And no I don't wear a mask in my car, home, or to bed.  I went to school for science.  Two things you didn't.  So kindly, screw off with your idiotic opinions.  You add nothing to the conversation, and you're arguing with people who are actually qualified, and far far more intelligent than you can dream of.  The problem here, is you thinking you're winning this argument instead of making a total fool of yourself.

You're the dumbest person I don't know.  May God have mercy on your black soul for wishing death on 3.2 million of your fellow Americans.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 31, 2020, 10:14:05 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd-sA_XuMYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbIYm-yS_d0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXT3AFpj7UU
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 31, 2020, 10:23:25 AM
Green Bay, WI yesterday:

https://twitter.com/JDiamond1/status/1322273081507880961?s=19

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 31, 2020, 11:14:56 AM
Suburban Atlanta.

Kelly Loeffler said everyone was wearing a mask at her 50 person steakhouse gathering. Let's check the video:

https://twitter.com/alizaslav/status/1322569246958866438?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on October 31, 2020, 12:17:28 PM
Green Bay, WI yesterday:

https://twitter.com/JDiamond1/status/1322273081507880961?s=19

Honestly, more masks than I expected. At least they are outside. I wonder how many of those people will be hosting a big group for Thanksgiving in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 31, 2020, 01:25:01 PM
First things first, Sweden has been beaten to death here.  You're out of your element.  You can look at the numbers yourself, but you'd rather listen to what a couple of freaks on the internet say.  And they're liars.  They're bait for objectively stupid people (you).  Second, I said 3 WEEKS.  Reading is fundamental.  Third, we've been at this for 7 months at this point, and you still can't come up with a plan.  My plan had this basically over in May.

As for the bolded part, they don't have to, but yes, it is the best way.  If people acted like me, maybe we could have had a summer.  And no I don't wear a mask in my car, home, or to bed.  I went to school for science.  Two things you didn't.  So kindly, screw off with your idiotic opinions.  You add nothing to the conversation, and you're arguing with people who are actually qualified, and far far more intelligent than you can dream of.  The problem here, is you thinking you're winning this argument instead of making a total fool of yourself.

You're the dumbest person I don't know.  May God have mercy on your black soul for wishing death on 3.2 million of your fellow Americans.

Even I would have a hard time coming up with a rant that is this spot on.

Trump is a killer. It should be no surprise that his supporters wish to rain death on Americans, as well.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 31, 2020, 03:01:45 PM
Even I would have a hard time coming up with a rant that is this spot on.

Of course you would.  His is laid out logically and with facts.  Yours are mindless talking points.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 31, 2020, 06:04:43 PM
Of course you would.  His is laid out logically and with facts.  Yours are mindless talking points.

Wow. You’re really quick with a cutting comeback.  ::)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on October 31, 2020, 09:18:30 PM
Is this Omaha? No, it's rural Pittsburgh, PA:

https://twitter.com/DJJudd/status/1322688676170735616?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 01, 2020, 08:00:50 PM
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/pope-francis-has-had-enough-of-people-complaining-about-coronavirus-restrictions-11604246429?siteid=yhoof2


Even the pope wants you to wear a mask. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 01, 2020, 09:50:39 PM
Ironically, he doesn’t generally wear one himself. Which is why it is concerning when Covid has shown up in the Vatican.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on November 02, 2020, 06:29:25 PM
A photo used to slam Biden for not wearing a mask on an airplane was taken before the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article246896047.html?ac_cid=DM314868&ac_bid=-1561356074

On Sunday, Richard Grenell, a Republican and former acting director of national intelligence, tweeted out the photo showing Biden talking to his traveling press secretary on a plane, along with a photo of Biden wearing a mask outside.

“@JoeBiden doesn’t wear a mask on a plane — but wears one OUTSIDE?!” Grenell tweeted, calling the former vice president a “phony.”

Conservative radio host Mark Levin retweeted the post and called Biden a “fraud.”

But the photo on the plane was taken in 2019, before COVID-19 was a concern, according to Snopes and PolitiFact.

It was shot last November by Biden campaign photographer Adam Schultz and was featured in an October 2020 Vogue magazine profile of Biden’s traveling press secretary, Remi Yamamoto, PolitiFact reported.

“Yamamoto and Biden huddle on a flight to South Carolina in November 2019,” the photo caption reads in Vogue.

The COVID-19 outbreak was first reported in China in December 2019, according to the World Health Organization. The first confirmed case in the United States was in late January, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.


You gotta love that d-bags whose leader just about never wears a mask and keeps killing his own supporters by holding mask-less, no-social-distancing, super-spreader rallies, is making up crud about a politician who actually does wear a mask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 02, 2020, 07:39:50 PM
Misdirection is the only thing remaining.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 02, 2020, 09:47:53 PM
A photo used to slam Biden for not wearing a mask on an airplane was taken before the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article246896047.html?ac_cid=DM314868&ac_bid=-1561356074

On Sunday, Richard Grenell, a Republican and former acting director of national intelligence, tweeted out the photo showing Biden talking to his traveling press secretary on a plane, along with a photo of Biden wearing a mask outside.

“@JoeBiden doesn’t wear a mask on a plane — but wears one OUTSIDE?!” Grenell tweeted, calling the former vice president a “phony.”

Conservative radio host Mark Levin retweeted the post and called Biden a “fraud.”

But the photo on the plane was taken in 2019, before COVID-19 was a concern, according to Snopes and PolitiFact.
Lies, lies, and more lies. Altered photos, misleading photos, just plain fabricated stories. Yet many here are perfectly OK with their party's constant lies. No morals, no ethics.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on November 02, 2020, 10:01:06 PM
Morals and ethics are for losers and suckers.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 03, 2020, 11:19:04 AM
Palm Beach, FL, Melania Trump:

https://twitter.com/MikeMadden/status/1323653516834021377?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 03, 2020, 11:21:27 AM
Fundamentally elementary, she's already had da chit, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on November 03, 2020, 11:22:58 AM
Fundamentally elementary, she's already had da chit, aina?

Does that mean she can’t still spread it?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 03, 2020, 11:25:18 AM
If you don't have it, you can't spread it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 03, 2020, 11:41:21 AM
Palm Beach, FL, Melania Trump:

https://twitter.com/MikeMadden/status/1323653516834021377?s=19

She probably wrote in Stormy Daniels
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 03, 2020, 11:43:22 AM
She should set the example.
But that’s beyond this crew to do.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 03, 2020, 01:03:52 PM
Lies, lies, and more lies. Altered photos, misleading photos, just plain fabricated stories. Yet many here are perfectly OK with their party's constant lies. No morals, no ethics.

from the same group that distributed the Fauci photo of his mask down at a Nationals game...which was taken while he was drinking a beer.

Palm Beach, FL, Melania Trump:

https://twitter.com/MikeMadden/status/1323653516834021377?s=19

with the amount of botox, plastic and silicon in her body she is likely immune.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on November 03, 2020, 01:20:04 PM


with the amount of botox, plastic and silicon in her body she is likely immune.

Lotta empty space in that head to store all that stuff.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 03, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
We'll never know of course, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Melania voted for Biden. Everything I've ever read indicates that she hates being FLOTUS. She certainly never looks happy.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 03, 2020, 01:39:30 PM
We'll never know of course, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Melania voted for Biden. Everything I've ever read indicates that she hates being FLOTUS. She certainly never looks happy.

It's too easy to find that out, hell when I was an intern on the Baldwin campaign I was able to look up voting history (party not names) of my aunts and uncles so I'd assume she wouldn't risk her reputation on just one vote against Trump even if she didn't wanna be FLOTUS.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 03, 2020, 01:47:46 PM
We'll never know of course, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Melania voted for Biden. Everything I've ever read indicates that she hates being FLOTUS. She certainly never looks happy.
I have seen in many places, many times this desire to humanize Melania and say that she doesn't really agree with Trump she just married him for the money. Well she almost certainly married him for the money, but she is also cut from the very same cloth as her husband.

She was all in on the birther crap, famously wore the "I really don't care do U" jacket, and fully supported the family separation policy. She is just as vile as he is, and let's not forget "Faaaack Kreees-mas".
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on November 03, 2020, 01:50:23 PM
I have seen in many places, many times this desire to humanize Melania and say that she doesn't really agree with Trump she just married him for the money. Well she almost certainly married him for the money, but she is also cut from the very same cloth as her husband.

She was all in on the birther crap, famously wore the "I really don't care do U" jacket, and fully supported the family separation policy. She is just as vile as he is, and let's not forget "Faaaack Kreees-mas".

Yes. Yes. Yes.

High paid escorts generally care about little other than themselves.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 03, 2020, 01:50:42 PM
It's too easy to find that out, hell when I was an intern on the Baldwin campaign I was able to look up voting history (party not names) of my aunts and uncles so I'd assume she wouldn't risk her reputation on just one vote against Trump even if she didn't wanna be FLOTUS.


Really? I had no idea you could find that out.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 03, 2020, 01:53:15 PM
I have seen in many places, many times this desire to humanize Melania and say that she doesn't really agree with Trump she just married him for the money. Well she almost certainly married him for the money, but she is also cut from the very same cloth as her husband.

She was all in on the birther crap, famously wore the "I really don't care do U" jacket, and fully supported the family separation policy. She is just as vile as he is, and let's not forget "Faaaack Kreees-mas".


I don't disagree that they are cut from the same cloth. Still, I think the negativity that Trump brings out make it much less 'fun' for her than for him. And she always gives me the vibe that she'd rather be hanging out in Manhattan than DC.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 03, 2020, 01:54:56 PM

Really? I had no idea you could find that out.

Only what primary they voted in. You can’t tie a voter to a ballot. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 03, 2020, 02:07:39 PM
I have seen in many places, many times this desire to humanize Melania and say that she doesn't really agree with Trump she just married him for the money. Well she almost certainly married him for the money, but she is also cut from the very same cloth as her husband.

She was all in on the birther crap, famously wore the "I really don't care do U" jacket, and fully supported the family separation policy. She is just as vile as he is, and let's not forget "Faaaack Kreees-mas".

She was going to divorce him until he won. Why do you think she was crying on election night? That's when she renegotiated the prenup. She doesn't even live with him and it's well known she has her lover, Hank, back in NYC. That's why she goes back to NYC frequently to "get her hair done."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 03, 2020, 02:11:48 PM
She was going to divorce him until he won. Why do you think she was crying on election night? That's when she renegotiated the prenup. She doesn't even live with him and it's well known she has her lover, Hank, back in NYC. That's why she goes back to NYC frequently to "get her hair done."

I pity the kid
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 03, 2020, 02:29:30 PM
I pity the kid

My teenager daughters tell me there is this whole "Support Baron" group based supposedly on school friends of Baron who say he's a normal kid and just wants to play video games with his friends but is not allowed.  (along those lines)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 03, 2020, 02:50:00 PM
I pity the kid

for sure. I'm glad the media has left him alone, other than comments about how freakin' tall he is.

Some in social media who can't help themselves refer call him an "anchor baby" when the go after Melania. Not only is that not true (dad gets him citizenship) but any attack of a kid who does not put themselves in the spotlight is uncalled for.

Besides, dad probably doesn't know who he is.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 03, 2020, 03:14:38 PM
Only what primary they voted in. You can’t tie a voter to a ballot.



That's what I thought. So if Melania went into the booth today and filled in the 'Biden/Harris' circle then stuck her ballot into the machine without anyone seeing, nobody would be the wiser.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 03, 2020, 03:45:07 PM
Mrs. Trump has recovered from the virus.   Going after first spouses is beyond the pale.    I know that one group has taken great pleasure in doing it under presidents 42 and 44.   But I will not lower myself into the gutter with them.   And she has already suffered enough otherwise.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: lawdog77 on November 03, 2020, 04:32:06 PM
Yes. Yes. Yes.

High paid escorts generally care about little other than themselves.
We talking about Kamala now?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on November 03, 2020, 05:15:06 PM
Gentlemen ... the topic is masks, not misogyny.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 12, 2020, 10:30:14 AM
Staten Island, NY:

https://twitter.com/patkiernan/status/1326815054176661504?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: lawdog77 on November 12, 2020, 10:58:52 AM
Staten Island, NY:

https://twitter.com/patkiernan/status/1326815054176661504?s=19
It is Staten Island

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEN1pcn3oAw&list=RD4pF5ClsvP_0&index=9 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEN1pcn3oAw&list=RD4pF5ClsvP_0&index=9)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 13, 2020, 10:45:37 AM
Rand Paul being Rand Paul.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1327285861310984193?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 13, 2020, 02:39:45 PM
Sadly, and inexplicably, this person is a member of Congress:

https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1327299859804729345
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on November 13, 2020, 02:57:39 PM
Sadly, and inexplicably, this person is a member of Congress:

https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1327299859804729345

How ironic that she tweets “my body, my choice”.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 13, 2020, 03:02:21 PM
How ironic that she tweets “my body, my choice”.

Every time I've seen those signs re Covid I crack up laughing
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 13, 2020, 03:24:19 PM
How ironic that she tweets “my body, my choice”.


I had no idea the GOP was now pro-choice.  ?-(
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 13, 2020, 03:47:35 PM

I had no idea the GOP was now pro-choice.  ?-(

Exactly!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on November 13, 2020, 03:55:27 PM
Sadly, and inexplicably, this person is a member of Congress:

https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1327299859804729345

Is she one of the qanon reps?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 13, 2020, 04:21:23 PM
I can’t see the tweet, but if it’s Marjorie Greene, the answer is yes. Newly elected. Total q-anon believer.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 13, 2020, 05:38:11 PM
Is she one of the qanon reps?

Yes she is. The Republicans have more QAnon reps than Black people.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on November 13, 2020, 08:54:03 PM
How ironic that she tweets “my body, my choice”.

It's things like this that make me wonder if we really are living in a code/game. And the original developer has now stepped away, and it has been taking over by a 16 year old, that is just trolling us.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2020, 08:53:09 PM
https://www.freep.com/story/news/health/2020/11/16/beaumont-study-shows-effectiveness-masks-covid-19-spread/6314336002/

Mask.    Science.     Sure to be ignored.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 16, 2020, 09:07:24 PM
The Wisconsin Supreme Court began hearing arguments on Monday oon whether to strike down the state's mask mandate:

https://www.wisn.com/article/coronavirus-wisconsin-supreme-court-considers-face-mask-mandate-challenge/34688417
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 16, 2020, 09:10:12 PM
Iowa.

https://twitter.com/KETVRob/status/1328490352232325131?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on November 16, 2020, 11:24:17 PM
Iowa.

https://twitter.com/KETVRob/status/1328490352232325131?s=19

A true trumper. She took no responsibility and blamed it on her constituents.

Stayin’ classy.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 17, 2020, 08:08:41 AM
"Once again, I asked my Republican colleagues to stop endangering all the Senate workers, and simply wear a mask when presiding over the Senate. Once again they refused."


https://twitter.com/SenSherrodBrown/status/1328494242210209793?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 08:47:42 AM
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

Would you look at that.  Turns out Fauci was right way back in March, apologies to him.

Should have stuck to his guns!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 18, 2020, 08:55:15 AM
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

Would you look at that.  Turns out Fauci was right way back in March, apologies to him.

Should have stuck to his guns!

Daily death rates rising.  Don’t wear masks!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 18, 2020, 08:59:49 AM
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

Would you look at that.  Turns out Fauci was right way back in March, apologies to him.

Should have stuck to his guns!

Oh Cheeks.  You didn't read the link did you.  This was a study that tested mask wearing in controlled settings where distancing and other factors were already in place.  And even then it was inconclusive.

But as for the overall effectiveness of mask wearing, it says this:

"Thus, these findings do not provide data on the effectiveness of widespread mask wearing in the community in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections. They do, however, offer evidence about the degree of protection mask wearers can anticipate in a setting where others are not wearing masks and where other public health measures, including social distancing, are in effect. The findings also suggest that persons should not abandon other COVID-19 safety measures regardless of the use of masks."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 09:00:39 AM
Daily death rates rising.  Don’t wear masks!

Science denier!!!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on November 18, 2020, 09:05:09 AM
Oh Cheeks.  You didn't read the link did you.  This was a study that tested mask wearing in controlled settings where distancing and other factors were already in place.  And even then it was inconclusive.

But as for the overall effectiveness of mask wearing, it says this:

"Thus, these findings do not provide data on the effectiveness of widespread mask wearing in the community in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections. They do, however, offer evidence about the degree of protection mask wearers can anticipate in a setting where others are not wearing masks and where other public health measures, including social distancing, are in effect. The findings also suggest that persons should not abandon other COVID-19 safety measures regardless of the use of masks."

L.O.L.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 09:26:49 AM
Oh Cheeks.  You didn't read the link did you.  This was a study that tested mask wearing in controlled settings where distancing and other factors were already in place.  And even then it was inconclusive.

But as for the overall effectiveness of mask wearing, it says this:

"Thus, these findings do not provide data on the effectiveness of widespread mask wearing in the community in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections. They do, however, offer evidence about the degree of protection mask wearers can anticipate in a setting where others are not wearing masks and where other public health measures, including social distancing, are in effect. The findings also suggest that persons should not abandon other COVID-19 safety measures regardless of the use of masks."

Oh Fluffy, sweetie.  You’re twisting yourself in knots.

To ignore the findings of this study, the stories we’ve all heard from friends/families/fellow scoopers of instances where infection happened despite disciplined mask wearing, and the fact that we are at record levels of infection despite better then ever mask compliance across the country as evidence to possibly doubt the effectiveness of masks lacks logic.

But you do you Fluffy, I suggest doubling up the mask to offer twice the protection.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 18, 2020, 09:30:49 AM
Oh Fluffy, sweetie.  You’re twisting yourself in knots.

To ignore the findings of this study, the stories we’ve all heard from friends/families/fellow scoopers of instances where infection happened despite disciplined mask wearing, and the fact that we are at record levels of infection despite better then ever mask compliance across the country as evidence to possibly doubt the effectiveness of masks lacks logic.

But you do you Fluffy, I suggest doubling up the mask to offer twice the protection.

You’re correct.  What we need is a complete shutdown across the nation.  Glad you’ve recovered after the trumping of your dear leader two weeks ago
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 09:34:45 AM
You’re correct.  What we need is a complete shutdown across the nation.  Glad you’ve recovered after the trumping of your dear leader two weeks ago

A complete shutdown until everyone is vaccinated would certainly do the trick and if Biden doesn’t impose this measure he’ll have blood of innocent people in his hands.  That’s how this works right?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/health/coronavirus-masks-denmark.html#click=https://t.co/xrP6wLl3SW

Nice article outlining both sides of the argument coming from this study.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 18, 2020, 09:43:13 AM
A complete shutdown until everyone is vaccinated would certainly do the trick and if Biden doesn’t impose this measure he’ll have blood of innocent people in his hands.  That’s how this works right?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/health/coronavirus-masks-denmark.html#click=https://t.co/xrP6wLl3SW

Nice article outlining both sides of the argument coming from this study.

I see you didn’t read the article again
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 18, 2020, 09:45:43 AM
Oh Fluffy, sweetie.  You’re twisting yourself in knots.

To ignore the findings of this study, the stories we’ve all heard from friends/families/fellow scoopers of instances where infection happened despite disciplined mask wearing, and the fact that we are at record levels of infection despite better then ever mask compliance across the country as evidence to possibly doubt the effectiveness of masks lacks logic.

But you do you Fluffy, I suggest doubling up the mask to offer twice the protection.


Uh...what?  What you are claiming is not a conclusion that can be drawn from this study.  What CAN be drawn, is that mask wearing may not provide extra benefits where other mitigating procedures are already in place.

It SPECIFICALLY STATES that it doesn't provide any conclusions as to the effectiveness of widespread mask wearing.

I mean, can you read???
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 09:50:56 AM
I see you didn’t read the article again

I see you’re wrong....again
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: lawdog77 on November 18, 2020, 09:55:18 AM
I thought the primary purpose of a mask was to protect others from you, so therefore, if everyone wears masks, the Covid rate should plummet.. Or is Pace just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 09:57:08 AM
I thought the primary purpose of a mask was to protect others from you, so therefore, if everyone wears masks, the Covid rate should plummet.. Or is Pace just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse?

You would think, that’s what we were told at least.

Doesn’t appear to be the case.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on November 18, 2020, 09:59:27 AM
You would think, that’s what we were told at least.

Doesn’t appear to be the case.

Further proof you didn't read your link.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 18, 2020, 10:01:13 AM
Don't argue with fools...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: SERocks on November 18, 2020, 10:04:21 AM
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm

I prefer to believe stories like this rather than attempt to discredit mask use by obfuscating other studies that seem to on their face say they cannot draw conclusions from the data in the study.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: lostpassword on November 18, 2020, 10:14:11 AM
I thought the primary purpose of a mask was to protect others from you, so therefore, if everyone wears masks, the Covid rate should plummet.. Or is Pace just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse?

I only skimmed the link but it specifically says this: "no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others."

I've yet to see anything that indicates wearing a mask is a net-negative for myself but lots that says it is good for the community should I become infected.  I'm confused as to how this study could be used to support not wearing masks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 10:14:42 AM
Further proof you didn't read your link.

Further proof you are also wrong....again.

I know the study looked at the efficacy of mask wearing as it relates to protecting yourself and not the spread to others.

I’m referring to the spike in infections in the last 6 weeks or so when mask wearing is at an all time high. That would suggest it’s not working in limiting the spread to others.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 10:15:10 AM
Don't argue with fools...

Didn’t take long for the name calling to start, par for the course.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 18, 2020, 10:19:43 AM
I see you’re wrong....again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXmnmvDl-ao
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 18, 2020, 10:19:59 AM

I’m referring to the spike in infections in the last 6 weeks or so when mask wearing is at an all time high. That would suggest it’s not working in limiting the spread to others.

Or different way of looking at it, as businesses returned to larger capacities, offices started opening again, restaurants and bars were allowed to have indoor diners and drinkers again.

If you have a bunch of people who wear masks to go to their seat and watch the football game that's good till every one of them removes said mask to drink their beer once at the bar.

You also assume people are wearing their masks correctly and/or have effective masks. Plenty of studies have shown your nose needs to be covered and many many people don't. And we've seen the study about which masks are most effective, yet people still wear bandanas or those nylon things that do nothing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 18, 2020, 10:23:56 AM
Further proof you are also wrong....again.

I know the study looked at the efficacy of mask wearing as it relates to protecting yourself and not the spread to others.

I’m referring to the spike in infections in the last 6 weeks or so when mask wearing is at an all time high. That would suggest it’s not working in limiting the spread to others.


1. So you wanted to make a point. 
2. Did a Google search for a study you hope would make it for you. 
3. Found something that you either didn't read or understand
4. Now that this has been pointed out to you, are making your point regardless.

So very Chicos. <chef's kiss> 

Anyway, the drive up in cases has largely been traced to bars or family events where mask compliance...isn't great.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on November 18, 2020, 10:27:40 AM
Further proof you are also wrong....again.

I know the study looked at the efficacy of mask wearing as it relates to protecting yourself and not the spread to others.

I’m referring to the spike in infections in the last 6 weeks or so when mask wearing is at an all time high. That would suggest it’s not working in limiting the spread to others.

Nope. The surges are tied to a lack of mask wearing, especially at social gatherings.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/11/12/covid-social-gatherings/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/mask-wearing-coronavirus-hot-spots/2020/10/27/71001546-1883-11eb-82db-60b15c874105_story.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 18, 2020, 10:29:31 AM
People like PaceArrow are why we have failed as a society.  Instead of working together to mitigate a pandemic, too many people look for reasons not to be better
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 18, 2020, 10:30:58 AM
https://www.freep.com/story/news/health/2020/11/16/beaumont-study-shows-effectiveness-masks-covid-19-spread/6314336002/

Mask.    Science.     Sure to be ignored.   

Bump.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 10:36:39 AM
Or different way of looking at it, as businesses returned to larger capacities, offices started opening again, restaurants and bars were allowed to have indoor diners and drinkers again.

If you have a bunch of people who where masks to go to their seat and watch the football game that's good till every one of them removes said mask to drink their beer once at the bar.

You also assume people are wearing their masks correctly and/or have effective masks. Plenty of studies have shown your nose needs to be covered and many many people don't. And we've seen the study about which masks are most effective, yet people still wear bandanas or those nylon things that do nothing.

Wear*
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 18, 2020, 10:39:10 AM
People like PaceArrow are why we have failed as a society.  Instead of working together to mitigate a pandemic, too many people look for reasons not to be better

To repeat, "the modern U.S. right doesn’t believe in evidence-based policy, it believes in policy-based evidence"

Cheeks doesn't want to wear a mask, so he mischaracterizes evidence to support what he wants to do, making us all fail.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 10:39:55 AM
People like PaceArrow are why we have failed as a society.  Instead of working together to mitigate a pandemic, too many people look for reasons not to be better

I wear a mask everyday, anytime I am out of the home and have for the better part of 8 months.

I’m doing as I’m told so point your finger somewhere else.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 10:40:28 AM
To repeat, "the modern U.S. right doesn’t believe in evidence-based policy, it believes in policy-based evidence"

Cheeks doesn't want to wear a mask, so he mischaracterizes evidence to support what he wants to do, making us all fail.

You could not be more wrong. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 18, 2020, 10:42:35 AM

Wear*


Thank you for your grammatical correction. I would hate for my point to get lost by such distractions. You should try it rather than get upset.

Any thoughts on the rest of the post?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 18, 2020, 10:44:10 AM
To repeat, "the modern U.S. right doesn’t believe in evidence-based policy, it believes in policy-based evidence"

Cheeks doesn't want to wear a mask, so he mischaracterizes evidence to support what he wants to do, making us all fail.

If Trump came out and said the moon was made of cheese, we’d have people debating that as fact with the same type of “evidence” being used in this discussion
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 18, 2020, 10:47:08 AM
You could not be more wrong.
How's northern Idaho?

Have the last word, chicos, as always.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on November 18, 2020, 10:56:04 AM
People like PaceArrow are why we have failed as a society.  Instead of working together to mitigate a pandemic, too many people look for reasons not to be better

They prefer to buck the trend to garner attention. I call them asshats. Cheeks/WarriorDad/PaceArrow is an asshat.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 11:07:53 AM
Thank you for your grammatical correction. I would hate for my point to get lost by such distractions. You should try it rather than get upset.

Any thoughts on the rest of the post?

I agreed with a lot of it and appreciate you having an adult conversation with a rational argument/conclusion.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 11:09:04 AM
If Trump came out and said the moon was made of cheese, we’d have people debating that as fact with the same type of “evidence” being used in this discussion

How do you know for certain parts of it are not?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 18, 2020, 11:15:19 AM
Oh Fluffy, sweetie.  You’re twisting yourself in knots.

To ignore the findings of this study, the stories we’ve all heard from friends/families/fellow scoopers of instances where infection happened despite disciplined mask wearing, and the fact that we are at record levels of infection despite better then ever mask compliance across the country as evidence to possibly doubt the effectiveness of masks lacks logic.

But you do you Fluffy, I suggest doubling up the mask to offer twice the protection.

This is incorrect.

There are many examples of people who are pretty good disciplined mask wearers that get infected because they are not wearing their mask at all times when in exposed environments inside or outside, just pretty good much of the time. That isn't quite good enough.

So many tales of people who make that one time mistake of not being diligent, maybe eating at the restaurant inside or outside instead of getting take out, etc...is all it takes. I shared yesterday the example of those Mayo Clinic workers taking their masks off to eat in thr break room. Etc...

There have been many studies shared here that show the effectiveness of wearing a mask, both for the benefit of others, and even oneself. Many.

But your angle is to come back long after a previous discussion to play gotcha and to place blame on someone (Fauci). These are the regurgitation of partisan talking points, that of course, are also incorrect. The approval rating of said person is extremely high, the qualifications, and success of the person throughout the Pandemic, have been also high.  You are giving yourself, and, your intentions away by focusing on that person.



Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on November 18, 2020, 11:19:20 AM
Or different way of looking at it, as businesses returned to larger capacities, offices started opening again, restaurants and bars were allowed to have indoor diners and drinkers again.

If you have a bunch of people who wear masks to go to their seat and watch the football game that's good till every one of them removes said mask to drink their beer once at the bar.

You also assume people are wearing their masks correctly and/or have effective masks. Plenty of studies have shown your nose needs to be covered and many many people don't. And we've seen the study about which masks are most effective, yet people still wear bandanas or those nylon things that do nothing.

I agree. Purely my opinion, but I would guess non-masked social interactions are higher now than since the lockdowns stopped. A lot of those spring and summer weddings were pushed to fall and are going forward. We have kids back at school and college. Organized sports have picked up. Even with mask mandates, there’s not really a way to police in the home. Also, the COVID fatigue makes me think people are getting a little sloppier with masks (myself included).
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mu_hilltopper on November 18, 2020, 11:23:07 AM
Don't argue with fools...

People like PaceArrow are why we have failed as a society. 

+2
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 18, 2020, 11:24:35 AM
This is incorrect.

There are many examples of people who are pretty good disciplined mask wearers that get infected because they are not wearing their mask at all times when in exposed environments inside or outside, just pretty good much of the time. That isn't quite good enough.

So many tales of people who make that one time mistake of not being diligent, maybe eating at the restaurant inside or outside instead of getting take out, etc...is all it takes. I shared yesterday the example of those Mayo Clinic workers taking their masks off to eat in thr break room. Etc...

There have been many studies shared here that show the effectiveness of wearing a mask, both for the benefit of others, and even oneself. Many.

But your angle is to come back long after a previous discussion to play gotcha and to place blame on someone (Fauci). These are the regurgitation of partisan talking points, that of course, are also incorrect. The approval rating of said person is extremely high, the qualifications, and success of the person throughout the Pandemic, have been also high.  You are giving yourself, and, your intentions away by focusing on that person.

Agree 100%.  There have been many studies showing masks efficacy.  There are some that don’t.  I take them all into account while some ignore certain ones and explain them away.

I should not have posted it cause it’s lead to a predictable response and thread.  A good analogy to your “slip up” when it comes to mask wearing and getting infected, this was my scoop “slip up”.

Season starts in a week, thank god.  I hope to wear my scoop mask until then and see ya guys over there to point out how wrong you are with your hoop takes as well.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 18, 2020, 11:24:45 AM
People like PaceArrow are why we have failed as a society.  Instead of working together to mitigate a pandemic, too many people look for reasons not to be better

It's the state of political discourse. One side is engaged in disingenuous arguments. Much like internet trolling it's hard to beat because not everyone is willing to ignore trolls and engaging in discourse with them actually increases the validity of their inane stance.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: lawdog77 on November 18, 2020, 11:28:55 AM
I agree. Purely my opinion, but I would guess non-masked social interactions are higher now than since the lockdowns stopped. A lot of those spring and summer weddings were pushed to fall and are going forward. We have kids back at school and college. Organized sports have picked up. Even with mask mandates, there’s not really a way to police in the home. Also, the COVID fatigue makes me think people are getting a little sloppier with masks (myself included).
How many people still sanitize their groceries?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 18, 2020, 11:41:06 AM
Agree 100%.  There have been many studies showing masks efficacy.  There are some that don’t.  I take them all into account while some ignore certain ones and explain them away.

I should not have posted it cause it’s lead to a predictable response and thread.  A good analogy to your “slip up” when it comes to mask wearing and getting infected, this was my scoop “slip up”.

Season starts in a week, thank god.  I hope to wear my scoop mask until then and see ya guys over there to point out how wrong you are with your hoop takes as well.

You "agreed" but then you tried to say "both sides" which again is incorrect. Masks work. That has been proven. You also agreed that your reasons for posting were really about regurgitating anti-Fauci talking points.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 18, 2020, 11:53:12 AM
How many people still sanitize their groceries?




Sum folks spray der utensils and food wit Everclear. Eye'm figurin' day're ether nuts orr alkies, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: naginiF on November 18, 2020, 12:26:28 PM
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

Would you look at that.  Turns out Fauci was right way back in March, apologies to him.

Should have stuck to his guns!
Are you having this same exact argument in multiple forums?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TopMindsOfReddit/comments/jwj4kg/ive_become_the_latest_victim_of_axolotl_peyotls/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/TopMindsOfReddit/comments/jwj4kg/ive_become_the_latest_victim_of_axolotl_peyotls/)
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/jwgmtk/the_highly_anticipated_danish_study_on_masks_was/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/jwgmtk/the_highly_anticipated_danish_study_on_masks_was/)


Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 18, 2020, 12:28:44 PM
Are you having this same exact argument in multiple forums?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TopMindsOfReddit/comments/jwj4kg/ive_become_the_latest_victim_of_axolotl_peyotls/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/TopMindsOfReddit/comments/jwj4kg/ive_become_the_latest_victim_of_axolotl_peyotls/)
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/jwgmtk/the_highly_anticipated_danish_study_on_masks_was/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/jwgmtk/the_highly_anticipated_danish_study_on_masks_was/)

> OP prolly reads PAGE 2 results on google until they find a matching narrative.

I lol'd
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 18, 2020, 12:33:36 PM
Agree 100%.  There have been many studies showing masks efficacy.  There are some that don’t.  I take them all into account while some ignore certain ones and explain them away.



So according to you "explaining them away" means actually reading them and drawing from them the conclusions that they drew themselves AND MORE IMPORTANTLY the conclusions that they DIDN'T draw.

Unlike you, I don't pretend the study said something it didn't say.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 18, 2020, 01:27:09 PM
Tennessee reported 72 new deaths yesterday.

Governor Bill Lee?

https://twitter.com/BrettKelman/status/1329075526321913864?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 18, 2020, 02:40:51 PM
Agree 100%.  There have been many studies showing masks efficacy.  There are some that don’t.  I take them all into account while some ignore certain ones and explain them away.
500 mask studies...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: lostpassword on November 18, 2020, 02:59:45 PM
Pace Arrow - legitimate question.  If you were "king" and could mandate such things, what would you do relative to masks?  I'm really interested as I don't understand the "so what" behind your posts today.  How would you have us behave?

[1] Mandate mask wearing.  You believe there is evidence that they are beneficial to self and/or community.
[2] Mandate mask wearing.  You aren't sure if they are helpful, but believe the "possible" benefits are worth the mandate.
[3] Optional.  You do not believe there is any evidence of community benefit.
[4] Optional.  You believe there are benefits to self and/or community but personal freedom trumps that evidence.
[5] Mandate against masks.  You believe there is evidence that they cause harm to self and/or the community.
[6] Mandate against masks.  You bleieve there are benefits, but let's watch it burn.

Something other than one of these?

I suspect most in this thread are #1.  Myself included.  The study posted doesn't do anything to change that position which is why I think many (myself included) are confused on the point trying to be made.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 18, 2020, 03:04:20 PM
Tennessee reported 72 new deaths yesterday.

Governor Bill Lee?

https://twitter.com/BrettKelman/status/1329075526321913864?s=19


Solid leadership.  >:(
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 18, 2020, 03:41:04 PM
woooo the last two pages were quite the ride.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 18, 2020, 07:05:10 PM
woooo the last two pages were quite the ride.


Your mom's a ride
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 18, 2020, 09:12:29 PM

Solid leadership.  >:(


https://fox17.com/amp/news/local/come-and-see-nashville-doctor-invites-tennessee-governor-bill-lee-to-work-er-shift-during-covid-19-pandemic-emergency-room-coronavirus-hospital-capacity?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on November 18, 2020, 11:00:07 PM

Solid leadership.  >:(

They just do not care.

People like us and many, many others on this board take all precautions, isolate as much as possible, always wear masks, avoid gatherings and bars, etc.

And what good does it all do when we have people like the president and these governors pleading for more people to get sick.

I'm just utterly disgusted with the stupidity of our fellow citizens and "leaders".

F trump and F the whiners who are going to complain to the mods about this.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 07:51:01 AM
New Monmouth Poll, 77% of DT voters say JB won due to fraud. That's about 56 million people.

And we wonder why so many won't wear a mask and won't physically distance.

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_US_111820/
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 19, 2020, 08:05:19 AM
New Monmouth Poll, 77% of DT voters say JB won due to fraud. That's about 56 million people.

And we wonder why so many won't wear a mask and won't physically distance.

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_US_111820/
Cult
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 01:16:52 PM
Singapore:

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-11-19/singapore-safe-distancing-ambassadors?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: naginiF on November 19, 2020, 01:45:51 PM
Singapore:

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-11-19/singapore-safe-distancing-ambassadors?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true
Where, according to the picture, the distancing ambassadors monitor everyone but themselves. With power comes privilege I guess.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 19, 2020, 01:55:43 PM
Where, according to the picture, the distancing ambassadors monitor everyone but themselves. With power comes privilege I guess.


To be fair, they are both wearing masks, and the offenders referred to in the article were busted for being maskless.

Maybe a better title would be 'mask ambassadors.'
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2020, 02:19:44 PM
Singapore:

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-11-19/singapore-safe-distancing-ambassadors?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true

Singapore is a wonderful place.  But based on their laws and more importantly the harsh punishments for breaking them, I'm not sure it's really a model that would work many other places.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 02:35:44 PM
Singapore is a wonderful place.  But based on their laws and more importantly the harsh punishments for breaking them, I'm not sure it's really a model that would work many other places.

People aren't wearing masks there out of fear of punishment. They are wearing masks because they know doing so protects others and themselves. Any fines, punishment etc are more symbolic gestures.

More people have died in South Dakota, population 800,000 than South Korea, population 52 million from COVID-19.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2020, 03:11:52 PM
People aren't wearing masks there out of fear of punishment. They are wearing masks because they know doing so protects others and themselves. Any fines, punishment etc are more symbolic gestures.

Did you even read the article you posted?  Singapore is known for their punishments.  Sure most people do it out of compassion for their fellow humans, just like many in the US.  But don't try to sugarcoat the authoritarian hand of Singapore!

"There’s no politically tinged anti-science movement that eschews masks or claims the pandemic is a hoax. Singaporeans are so inured to surveillance in the single party-dominated state that contact tracers had little trouble rooting out clusters. Citizens even have an app for snitching on safe-distancing scofflaws, who can face hefty fines or jail time.

"“Fear of penalties are a major motivating factor behind compliance, as is the sense that nothing much can be done about such intrusive measures,” said Ja Ian Chong, a political scientist at the National University of Singapore."

" In May, a safe-distancing officer working for the National Parks Board was stabbed by a 61-year-old man trimming pandan leaves in a park without a mask on. The assailant faces life in imprisonment, though because of his more advanced age, he’ll be spared a caning."

"One 48-year-old man was fined $2,600 for cursing at a safe-distancing officer after he ordered the man’s wife to stop loitering outside a mall."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 03:30:18 PM
Did you even read the article you posted?  Singapore is known for their punishments.  Sure most people do it out of compassion for their fellow humans, just like many in the US.  But don't try to sugarcoat the authoritarian hand of Singapore!

"There’s no politically tinged anti-science movement that eschews masks or claims the pandemic is a hoax. Singaporeans are so inured to surveillance in the single party-dominated state that contact tracers had little trouble rooting out clusters. Citizens even have an app for snitching on safe-distancing scofflaws, who can face hefty fines or jail time.

"“Fear of penalties are a major motivating factor behind compliance, as is the sense that nothing much can be done about such intrusive measures,” said Ja Ian Chong, a political scientist at the National University of Singapore."

" In May, a safe-distancing officer working for the National Parks Board was stabbed by a 61-year-old man trimming pandan leaves in a park without a mask on. The assailant faces life in imprisonment, though because of his more advanced age, he’ll be spared a caning."

"One 48-year-old man was fined $2,600 for cursing at a safe-distancing officer after he ordered the man’s wife to stop loitering outside a mall."

Maybe read your own post before posting. Seems you are trying to disagree to simply to disagree here.

You say, "Did you even read the article you posted?" (yep, I posted it)

You then say, "Sure most people do it out of compassion for their fellow humans."

Compliance elsewhere including Singapore is much better than the U.S. for a variety of reasons. Much of it is because they respect basic science for their own self benefit and others. The majority of people don't do so out of fear of punishment. However there are fines and punishments that exist in some places as well.



Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 19, 2020, 03:34:02 PM
Maybe read your own post before posting. Seems you are trying to disagree to simply to disagree here.

You say, "Did you even read the article you posted?" (yep, I posted it)

You then say, "Sure most people do it out of compassion for their fellow humans."

Compliance elsewhere including Singapore is much better than the U.S. for a variety of reasons. Much of it is because they respect basic science for their own self benefit and others. The majority of people don't do so out of fear of punishment. However there are fines and punishments that exist in some places as well.



But the article mentioned Singapore...then you compared South Dakota to South Korea.

Singapore and South Korea aren't the same place. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 03:38:27 PM

But the article mentioned Singapore...then you compared South Dakota to South Korea.

Singapore and South Korea aren't the same place.

Yes, I posted the article about Singapore. I also compared a different country COVID-19 dead bodies to a single American State in a different place, yes. ?

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 19, 2020, 04:05:43 PM
After having spent a few days in Singapore last year, my first reaction as the engineer in me was how over-organized the place is.  Smoking boxes - lines painted on the sidewalk.  Where to stand getting on the SMRT. 
On my morning runs I recall seeing people sleeping on the sidewalk by the open onion shaped museum and my Singapore friends said the police have been getting lax lately. 
That being said I was on my best behavior because I didn't want caned.  Besides the alcohol was expensive too.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 19, 2020, 04:13:02 PM

After having spent a few days in Singapore last year, my first reaction as the engineer in me was how over-organized the place is.  Smoking boxes - lines painted on the sidewalk.  Where to stand getting on the SMRT. 
On my morning runs I recall seeing people sleeping on the sidewalk by the open onion shaped museum and my Singapore friends said the police have been getting lax lately. 
That being said I was on my best behavior because I didn't want caned.  Besides the alcohol was expensive too.



It has been over 10 years since I have been there, but my favorite Singapore sight was a 'no trespassing' sign that had a picture of a guard aiming a rifle at a trespasser. They mean business.

By the way, the museum is shaped like a Durian. If you haven't tried one, they are quite an...ummm...treat. ?-(
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2020, 04:46:55 PM
By the way, the museum is shaped like a Durian. If you haven't tried one, they are quite an...ummm...treat. ?-(

As opposed to Durian, try the carrot cake (Chai tow kway).  It is neither carrot, nor cake, but it's *actually* a delicious meal!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2020, 04:49:48 PM
The majority of people don't do so out of fear of punishment.

Seriously - read!

"“Fear of penalties are a major motivating factor behind compliance, as is the sense that nothing much can be done about such intrusive measures,” said Ja Ian Chong, a political scientist at the National University of Singapore."

Why should I trust you over him?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 05:08:06 PM
Seriously - read!

"“Fear of penalties are a major motivating factor behind compliance, as is the sense that nothing much can be done about such intrusive measures,” said Ja Ian Chong, a political scientist at the National University of Singapore."

Why should I trust you over him?

You, yes you not me, literally said that "sure most people do it out of compassion for their fellow humans."

So now you are changing your previous response?

I posted the Singapore link as it was without comment or opinion.

It is my opinion (and previously was yours) that many people are wearing masks and social distancing primarily for reasons other than punishment fear. However, for those that don't, punishments can and do exist there.






Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on November 19, 2020, 05:44:13 PM
2 of my closest business friends/associates are Singapore residents. It is 100% motivated by punishment. In terms of community and selflessness, Singapore doesn’t standout compared to other Asian nations. Excessive government control and risk of punishment is ingrained in anyone there. My buddy went to university in London and his friends made fun of him cause for years he wouldn’t cross a street without a signal and clear “permission”, even if deserted of cars.

Much like kids at a old school strict Catholic grade school being diligent and well behaved. It’s not cause they are just naturally sweet and polite children, they are conditioned by strict and borderline oppressive overlords
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 19, 2020, 07:30:55 PM
As opposed to Durian, try the carrot cake (Chai tow kway).  It is neither carrot, nor cake, but it's *actually* a delicious meal!





Tastes like chicken, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2020, 07:49:27 PM
People aren't wearing masks there out of fear of punishment. They are wearing masks because they know doing so protects others and themselves. Any fines, punishment etc are more symbolic gestures.

It is my opinion (and previously was yours) that many people are wearing masks and social distancing primarily for reasons other than punishment fear. However, for those that don't, punishments can and do exist there.

Is is symbolic, or are the punishments real?  I can't keep up with your story.  I'll close with my original response which originally got you on this tangent, and is 100% true.

Singapore is a wonderful place.  But based on their laws and more importantly the harsh punishments for breaking them, I'm not sure it's really a model that would work many other places.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 19, 2020, 08:49:56 PM

It has been over 10 years since I have been there, but my favorite Singapore sight was a 'no trespassing' sign that had a picture of a guard aiming a rifle at a trespasser. They mean business.

By the way, the museum is shaped like a Durian. If you haven't tried one, they are quite an...ummm...treat. ?-(

I compromised and bought durian chips in the supermarket.  Potato chips made of durian instead.  Quite surprisingly good.

I ran by the museum every morning I was there.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 19, 2020, 11:08:27 PM
Is is symbolic, or are the punishments real?  I can't keep up with your story.  I'll close with my original response which originally got you on this tangent, and is 100% true.

Lol. I'm not on a tangent. I believe that would be you here. You are also projecting.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on November 20, 2020, 07:34:54 AM
My buddy went to university in London and his friends made fun of him cause for years he wouldn’t cross a street without a signal and clear “permission”, even if deserted of cars.

You sure he was from Singapore? Maybe he just went to Marquette at the same time I did.

I'm not sure what the situation is now, but Milwaukee officers strictly enforced jaywalking laws back when I was at MU. They'd hang around campus, looking for opportunities to hand out $10 tickets. I have little doubt they were told to do so by their overlords.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 20, 2020, 07:45:56 AM
I thought the same thing, about the jaywalking. Once a cop followed a friend into Boston Store-she evaded him, however.
I, too, would catch myself standing on corners waiting for lights on empty streets, until I would  remember that I wasn’t on campus.....
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 20, 2020, 08:05:06 AM
There were a few mornings that the police officers would be slowly cruising up and down Wisconsin Avenue at 08:55 just waiting to pounce.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 20, 2020, 09:12:11 AM
Florida Senator Rick Scott was at this rally last week:

https://twitter.com/ChenueHer/status/1327339798525308928?s=19

He tested positive for COVID-19 this week.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on November 20, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
2 of my closest business friends/associates are Singapore residents. It is 100% motivated by punishment. In terms of community and selflessness, Singapore doesn’t standout compared to other Asian nations. Excessive government control and risk of punishment is ingrained in anyone there. My buddy went to university in London and his friends made fun of him cause for years he wouldn’t cross a street without a signal and clear “permission”, even if deserted of cars.

Much like kids at a old school strict Catholic grade school being diligent and well behaved. It’s not cause they are just naturally sweet and polite children, they are conditioned by strict and borderline oppressive overlords

Remember the American college kid who was got caught vandalizing and was sentenced to caning? 

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1915352_1915354_1915337,00.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 20, 2020, 12:24:43 PM
Remember the American college kid who was got caught vandalizing and was sentenced to caning? 

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1915352_1915354_1915337,00.html

That was 26 years ago already, damn!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 20, 2020, 12:29:17 PM
Remember the American college kid who was got caught vandalizing and was sentenced to caning? 

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1915352_1915354_1915337,00.html

Of course he's a Cardinals fan.

https://mustsharenews.com/michael-fay-today/
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on November 20, 2020, 12:55:39 PM
Of course he's a Cardinals fan.

https://mustsharenews.com/michael-fay-today/

Maybe he was just trying to write down all the unwritten rules for baseball fans in Singapore.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 20, 2020, 01:10:15 PM
Florida Senator Rick Scott was at this rally last week:

https://twitter.com/ChenueHer/status/1327339798525308928?s=19

He tested positive for COVID-19 this week.

Same people, new event today:

https://twitter.com/PriscillaWT/status/1329861714305814533?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 21, 2020, 10:36:22 PM
Florida Senator Rick Scott was at this rally last week:

https://twitter.com/ChenueHer/status/1327339798525308928?s=19

He tested positive for COVID-19 this week.

Georgia Senate candidate Kelly Loeffler tested positive for COVID-19 yesterday. She was at the same event as Rick Scott, seen here:

https://twitter.com/KLoeffler/status/1329883604651024384?s=19

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 22, 2020, 12:47:17 AM
The best part about that Twitter thread is Scott Baio threatening to move to Utah  to unseat Romney.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 22, 2020, 03:41:59 PM
Kansas:

24 Counties with mask compliance saw negative 6% decrease average 7 day average COVID-19 infections.

81 counties without mask mandate? Saw 100% increase in weekly average cases.

https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1330488426068660226?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: lawdog77 on November 23, 2020, 11:10:21 AM
The best part about that Twitter thread is Scott Baio threatening to move to Utah  to unseat Romney.
He was my hero awhile back for another reason-before the ugly truth came out.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 23, 2020, 11:16:51 AM
He was my hero awhile back for another reason.

You wanted to bang Joanie Cunningham?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: lawdog77 on November 23, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
You wanted to bang Joanie Cunningham?
Brooke Shields
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 23, 2020, 11:31:28 AM
Brooke Shields

That's older than my Happy Days reference.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 24, 2020, 08:21:58 AM
ICU Doc encourages mask wearing by simulating the last moments of a COVID-19 death, and posting it online:

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/columns/tony-messenger/messenger-icu-doc-urges-mask-wearing-by-simulating-the-last-moments-of-a-covid-19/article_c68b15a9-b994-5cf4-8e60-866885d87153.amp.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on November 24, 2020, 08:53:00 AM
Pretty amazing there is still a shortage of N95 masks at this point.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/10/27/3m-making-more-n95-masks-than-ever-as-covid-cases-rise.html?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 24, 2020, 11:04:58 AM
Pretty amazing there is still a shortage of N95 masks at this point.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/10/27/3m-making-more-n95-masks-than-ever-as-covid-cases-rise.html?__twitter_impression=true

My company is going to start making mask wire for 3M.  We heard they have multiple locations and had three or four idle lines (in addition to the ones that were running) when the pandemic started that were quickly ramped back up on 3 shifts.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 24, 2020, 11:23:21 AM
Pretty amazing there is still a shortage of N95 masks at this point.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/10/27/3m-making-more-n95-masks-than-ever-as-covid-cases-rise.html?__twitter_impression=true

Yes, it is nearly impossible for health care centers that are NOT emergency or hospitals / treating active covid patients to get them still. At least not the medical grade.  Some industrial grade is available, but still not enough to meet demand.  Think privately owned heath care, family doctors, dentists,  walgreens, cvs, etc.  All those providers cannot get them and are left hanging.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 24, 2020, 11:48:51 AM
Would seem to be an important thing to have a lot of if we were following Atlas’ run the herd off the cliff plan. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 24, 2020, 11:51:43 AM
Would seem to be an important thing to have a lot of if we were following Atlas’ run the herd off the cliff plan. 

Yeah, that's why Biden is talking about invoking the defense production act.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-20/biden-eyes-more-muscular-use-of-defense-law-to-boost-ppe-output
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on November 24, 2020, 01:15:59 PM
Yes, it is nearly impossible for health care centers that are NOT emergency or hospitals / treating active covid patients to get them still. At least not the medical grade.  Some industrial grade is available, but still not enough to meet demand.  Think privately owned heath care, family doctors, dentists,  walgreens, cvs, etc.  All those providers cannot get them and are left hanging.

I just had a procedure in a hospital yesterday. Nurse said they get one mask a day. It did not look like an N95 mask. This hospital has an entire floor for covid patients.
There was a scrubs vending machine in the lobby too. Nurses are the new teachers when it comes to supplies.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Chili on November 24, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
I just had a procedure in a hospital yesterday. Nurse said they get one mask a day. It did not look like an N95 mask. This hospital has an entire floor for covid patients.
There was a scrubs vending machine in the lobby too. Nurses are the new teachers when it comes to supplies.

Those scrubs vending machines have been around forever. It's standard practice. Essentially you put dirty scrubs in and they give clean ones. It's a very safe and effective way to handle it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on November 24, 2020, 02:41:41 PM
I just had a procedure in a hospital yesterday. Nurse said they get one mask a day. It did not look like an N95 mask. This hospital has an entire floor for covid patients.
There was a scrubs vending machine in the lobby too. Nurses are the new teachers when it comes to supplies.

Scrubs machines are common and are used for all OR staff
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 24, 2020, 03:09:33 PM
Those scrubs vending machines have been around forever. It's standard practice. Essentially you put dirty scrubs in and they give clean ones. It's a very safe and effective way to handle it.


In addition to the cleanliness factor, it probably minimizes 'losing' scrubs to become PJs for docs and nurses.

I remember the old days, when there'd be a big bin full of clean scrubs, and another bin to toss your dirty ones in.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 24, 2020, 03:13:53 PM
The show scrubs did a whole bit on the scrubs vending machine years ago and also about doctors stealing them
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on November 24, 2020, 03:17:08 PM
Maybe I just don't know any of them...

But I don't know any healthcare worker who has stolen scrubs. I know a ton who take a stack to wear into the hospital from home - some change when they get to the hospital, some don't.

Note, this only applies to OR staff. Not floor staff, ER, etc.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on November 25, 2020, 11:12:09 PM
Most coronavirus clusters at NC schools have been at private schools, which had been exempt from mask mandates for whatever reason.

The governor says, OK that's enough. Masks are now required at such schools.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/education/article247397165.html?ac_cid=DM331580&ac_bid=-1322971583
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 26, 2020, 06:16:37 AM
Most coronavirus clusters at NC schools have been at private schools, which had been exempt from mask mandates for whatever reason.

The governor says, OK that's enough. Masks are now required at such schools.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/education/article247397165.html?ac_cid=DM331580&ac_bid=-1322971583

It's crazy to me that any school would be in session now without a mask requirement. 

There was some talk in our District about not having a mask requirement to start the year since Wisconsin had a mask mandate.  But I'm glad they put in their own mask rule as the state mask mandate may get overturned.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on November 27, 2020, 08:01:45 AM
For public high schools in Mecklenburg County, NC's largest, volleyball and swimming seasons have begun and basketball will start practice in about a week, with play starting Jan. 4.

Volleyball players have to wear masks during competition, as will basketball players. Swimmers don't have to wear masks in the water but must wear them immediately before and after.

“It is not fun,” Ardrey Kell junior volleyball player Alexis Shelton said. “In the beginning, it wasn’t that bad but once you get sweaty, the mask gets wet and it’s hard to breathe. I feel like I got used to it in a week or two, but in the beginning it was really hard to get used to it. It’s difficult for all of us, but it’s way better than not playing."

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/high-school/article247422090.html?ac_cid=DM332253&ac_bid=-1315223283
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on November 27, 2020, 07:39:54 PM
Scrubs machines are common and are used for all OR staff

Good to know. The fact that the staff gets one mask a day, a non N95 one at that, is disturbing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 27, 2020, 07:54:44 PM
Good to know. The fact that the staff gets one mask a day, a non N95 one at that, is disturbing.


Agreed. Trump’s refusal to invoke the DPA for production of N95 masks is a travesty. Every frontline healthcare worker and first responder in the country should have ready access to N95 or similar masks by now.

Seeing video of providers in emergency rooms wearing simple paper masks is so sad.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 27, 2020, 08:51:17 PM
my assistant of 3 months quit her job as a phlebotomist at children's hospital.  i still find this very hard to believe and asked her 14 times, but i did hear it repeated somewhere else-they share masks?????

  pleasepleaseplease tell me that my assistant is confused or missing something but we sure in the hell don't share masks in my office. hell, we don't even share the same coffee mugs  :o ?-( :-[
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 27, 2020, 08:52:41 PM
She is not confused.   It is that bad.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 27, 2020, 08:59:49 PM
She is not confused.   It is that bad.

  okey dokey, but we ain't sharing masks-period

  hope your dad is doing better
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 27, 2020, 09:08:50 PM
She is not confused.   It is that bad.

+10  Near impossible for medical professionals to get medical grade masks.  In fact, I know of one shipment by a well-known medically provider, with an impeccable reputation turned out to be  cheap knock-offs - not medically certified.  There are problems in the supply chain.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 27, 2020, 09:24:28 PM
+10  Near impossible for medical professionals to get medical grade masks.  In fact, I know of one shipment by a well-known medically provider, with an impeccable reputation turned out to be  cheap knock-offs - not medically certified.  There are problems in the supply chain.

  color me weird, but i'd rather wear a double level 3 with a cheap knock off than share a mask with a stranger.  we sterilize and change our nitrous oxide nose inserts between patients. we don't wash our light handles or suction tips, etc.   hope they ain't sharing gloves

 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 27, 2020, 09:35:51 PM
  color me weird, but i'd rather wear a double level 3 with a cheap knock off than share a mask with a stranger.  we sterilize and change our nitrous oxide nose inserts between patients. we don't wash our light handles or suction tips, etc.   hope they ain't sharing gloves


In normal times, no reputable hospital would remotely consider it either. Unfortunately, these are not normal times, and they are desperately short of PPE in many places.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on November 27, 2020, 11:35:59 PM

In normal times, no reputable hospital would remotely consider it either. Unfortunately, these are not normal times, and they are desperately short of PPE in many places.

Yep, despite the emperor's claims to the contrary, this is a huge problem. It's become an especially big problem in rural hospitals.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 28, 2020, 12:07:40 AM

In normal times, no reputable hospital would remotely consider it either. Unfortunately, these are not normal times, and they are desperately short of PPE in many places.

i understand gooo, but if it's "acceptable" to pretty much wear anything you can fashion into a "mask" and it is "mandated" to wear in order to be "safe", then strapping any form of cloth, with one or two level 3"s (which are in abundance) has got to be way more sanitary than sharing anything.  what if the co worker was assymptomatically covid positive and/or a carrier?  this just does not make any sense to me at all.  you can get cheap level 2 and/or 3's by the case!  with the exception of medical grade n95's, it has been established that masks are only so effective.  a couple of multi-ply paper towels are safer than sharing
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 28, 2020, 12:52:48 AM
  color me weird, but i'd rather wear a double level 3 with a cheap knock off than share a mask with a stranger.

i understand gooo, but if it's "acceptable" to pretty much wear anything you can fashion into a "mask" and it is "mandated" to wear in order to be "safe", then strapping any form of cloth, with one or two level 3"s (which are in abundance) has got to be way more sanitary than sharing anything.

you can get cheap level 2 and/or 3's by the case!  with the exception of medical grade n95's, it has been established that masks are only so effective.  a couple of multi-ply paper towels are safer than sharing

I don't disagree with you, but clearly you're part of a "small time" medical operation.  Try getting "cheap level 2 and/or 3's by the case"  to pass muster in a multi-state level organization with several layers of oversight and several state OSHA organizations to deal with.  They'd shut you down in a second. 

Also, maybe your employees are on board, but many medical employees know the difference between medically qualified equipment and cheap knock-offs.  There's a high likelihood they'd report you for endangering their safety for that too.

That's all to say - I think we agree.  There's still a severe shortage of medical grade PPE - and that's a bad thing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on November 28, 2020, 08:50:41 AM
My wife watched the poor mask-wearing (often no mask-wearing) by Spoonhour and his staff and most players on the EIU bench last night and said, "I am gonna be so pissed if Marquette has a COVID flare-up in the next 1-2 weeks because these a-holes refused to wear their masks."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 28, 2020, 09:35:27 AM
i understand gooo, but if it's "acceptable" to pretty much wear anything you can fashion into a "mask" and it is "mandated" to wear in order to be "safe", then strapping any form of cloth, with one or two level 3"s (which are in abundance) has got to be way more sanitary than sharing anything.  what if the co worker was assymptomatically covid positive and/or a carrier?  this just does not make any sense to me at all.  you can get cheap level 2 and/or 3's by the case!  with the exception of medical grade n95's, it has been established that masks are only so effective.  a couple of multi-ply paper towels are safer than sharing


My understanding is that hospitals are sterilizing N95s between uses. That should eliminate the question of cross-contamination between providers. I suspect this strategy is based on hospitals' assumptions that a reused (sterilized) N95 is still more effective than a fresh cloth mask. I don't know if this assumption is correct, but that seems to be their calculus.

In any event, I do not believe any hospitals are allowing staff to share masks that haven't been sterilized between uses.

Either way, the shortage of medical-grade PPE is leading hospitals to make very difficult choices...in this case, between sterilizing a medical-grade mask that wasn't meant to be sterilized, our using a non-medical-grade mask. Neither option is ideal, nor would either be used in normal times, but the choice is being made because of a severe shortage that should not exist.

Trump should invoke the DPA now, so frontline workers don't have to make this impossible choice....

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 28, 2020, 10:11:19 AM
UV light is yur friend, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on November 28, 2020, 06:51:20 PM

My understanding is that hospitals are sterilizing N95s between uses. That should eliminate the question of cross-contamination between providers. I suspect this strategy is based on hospitals' assumptions that a reused (sterilized) N95 is still more effective than a fresh cloth mask. I don't know if this assumption is correct, but that seems to be their calculus.

In any event, I do not believe any hospitals are allowing staff to share masks that haven't been sterilized between uses.

Either way, the shortage of medical-grade PPE is leading hospitals to make very difficult choices...in this case, between sterilizing a medical-grade mask that wasn't meant to be sterilized, our using a non-medical-grade mask. Neither option is ideal, nor would either be used in normal times, but the choice is being made because of a severe shortage that should not exist.

Trump should invoke the DPA now, so frontline workers don't have to make this impossible choice....

This is my understanding as well.

One of my former students was originally developing partnerships with local clinics/hospitals etc., to repurpose unused (because of COVID shutdowns) biosafety cabinets to use their sterilization setups to sterilize N95s. They later switched to providing technical information to these small clinics for how they can get sterilization systems, or build their own (they were originally working to develop their own, low cost system; but so many alternatives were out there they thought just providing guidance was more helpful). The alternative was people reusing/sharing masks, or going without.

I actually have a friend who worked in NYC, in March/April, at one point she had to treat patients without a mask, as there was no available PPE.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 28, 2020, 07:32:47 PM
The Rockettes did just fine wearing a mask while performing in the Macy's Parade on Thanksgiving:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/26/us/rockettes-macys-thanksgiving-parade-masks-trnd/index.html

"If the Rockettes can wear a mask in the Macy's parade... you can wear one in Target for 10 minutes," wrote one Twitter user.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 28, 2020, 08:02:32 PM
https://www.king5.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/mayo-study-proves-effectiveness-of-masks-and-social-distancing/89-c5afee25-f2a3-4923-a41c-996ad0ff0373?fbclid=IwAR3jOp3h8K5925alwKj1F6VcZZ2ZDtn9sW1lEoq3kJglvcTz6o-MNw94c4g

Mayo study says masks are effective. Also distancing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 28, 2020, 08:52:19 PM
The Rockettes did just fine wearing a mask while performing in the Macy's Parade on Thanksgiving:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/26/us/rockettes-macys-thanksgiving-parade-masks-trnd/index.html

"If the Rockettes can wear a mask in the Macy's parade... you can wear one in Target for 10 minutes," wrote one Twitter user.

B.S.  no target visit is under 10 minutes or $100.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Marquette Fan on November 28, 2020, 09:12:22 PM
B.S.  no target visit is under 10 minutes or $100.

Very true normally :).

But I did have a rare trip to Target yesterday to pick up some medicine - went in and got that and one other little thing I wanted and got out of there in less than 10 minutes spending only $16 total.  But I live one mile from a Target and have had a few other recent visits there that lasted longer and cost me more money of course :).  I should have picked up my limit of one for toilet paper yesterday though as people seem to be back to hoarding that - there's not much TP to be found there or at the local grocery store.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 29, 2020, 08:13:19 AM
 I can. I don’t particularly like to shop, and I don’t like large stores. If I know what I want, I can head right there and back out again.
My only-ever trip to IKEA, I did just that. I went to get something particular as a gift, one of my friends told me precisely how to do that, so I never went to the display area at all. I admit to buying something additional at the check-out line, but I was in and out in a flash.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 29, 2020, 10:01:46 AM
I can. I don’t particularly like to shop, and I don’t like large stores. If I know what I want, I can head right there and back out again.
My only-ever trip to IKEA, I did just that. I went to get something particular as a gift, one of my friends told me precisely how to do that, so I never went to the display area at all. I admit to buying something additional at the check-out line, but I was in and out in a flash.


Yep. My typical (very infrequent) trip to a Target or Walmart is exactly like that. I only go because something I need is on sale and not available (or more expensive) online. So I plan exactly what I want, grab it, go through the express checkout, and leave. I get that people like you and me are exceptions, but it certainly can be done. And for those who claim mask wearing impedes their breathing, it eliminates that excuse.

Also for the anti-mask snowflakes, there is online grocery shopping and delivery. Some even offer free delivery if you meet the minimum purchase, like Costco's online service, which includes free delivery for orders over $75 (very easy at Costco).

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 29, 2020, 10:07:37 AM
I haven’t spent $100 at Target visit in years.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: reinko on November 29, 2020, 12:36:34 PM


Also for the anti-mask snowflakes, there is online grocery shopping and delivery. Some even offer free delivery if you meet the minimum purchase, like Costco's online service, which includes free delivery for orders over $75 (very easy at Costco).

While technically true, it’s really just Instacart, which at Costco, I’ve seen the price inflation easily 20-25 percent.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on November 29, 2020, 02:29:17 PM
While technically true, it’s really just Instacart, which at Costco, I’ve seen the price inflation easily 20-25 percent.


Depends on what you buy. For perishables, you are correct.

But I buy many non-perishable foods from Costco (nuts, granola, dried fruits, salsa, canned tomatoes, pasta and such), and they ship directly from Costco with no markup and no involvement with Instacart.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: reinko on November 29, 2020, 02:30:49 PM

Depends on what you buy. For perishables, you are correct.

But I buy many non-perishable foods from Costco (nuts, granola, dried fruits, salsa, canned tomatoes, pasta and such), and they ship directly from Costco with no markup and no involvement with Instacart.

Ah, interesting.  Good to know!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on December 05, 2020, 07:50:22 AM
Bill Nye:

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1335016787641946114?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on December 05, 2020, 08:15:18 AM
Anecdotal but true, and shows the importance of masks and social distancing. One of my former students had a grandparent die, and the family held a small funeral (40-45 people). They and their partner were two of only 3 people that didn't get COVID at the funeral. They were the only two who wore masks and tried their best to socially distance.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on December 05, 2020, 12:00:43 PM
Anecdotal but true, and shows the importance of masks and social distancing. One of my former students had a grandparent die, and the family held a small funeral (40-45 people). They and their partner were two of only 3 people that didn't get COVID at the funeral. They were the only two who wore masks and tried their best to socially distance.

I have been at one small funeral - about 50 people. Everybody wore a mask. Everybody social distanced. Zero people were infected.

I really hope the deaths stop, but I just can't care anymore when people won't even take the most basic, proven steps to prevent themselves from getting sick.

Can't we even expect people to take personal responsibility anymore? We have people on this board who traveled and got together over Thanksgiving. I assume many will do the same for Christmas. What is wrong here? These aren't stupid people, yet they act as though they are.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: burger on December 05, 2020, 02:41:03 PM
For those who care......

Cloth masks.....50% effective.....

KN95 masks......75ish%

N95 masks......90ish%

KN95 are about 20 for $10......I use 1 a week.....I have the N95's but only use those in long exposure/higher risks settings.....N95's are expensive and are about $8-$9......

Walmart sells 70% isopropyl alcohol online for under $3 a bottle.....But it in an old Windex bottle and use it after you touch anything.....Go through a bottle every week or so.....I just carry it with me everywhere.....I honestly don't give a $hit.....I have a "high risk condition"......
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on December 05, 2020, 03:50:25 PM
For those who care......

Cloth masks.....50% effective.....

KN95 masks......75ish%

N95 masks......90ish%

KN95 are about 20 for $10......I use 1 a week.....I have the N95's but only use those in long exposure/higher risks settings.....N95's are expensive and are about $8-$9......

Walmart sells 70% isopropyl alcohol online for under $3 a bottle.....But it in an old Windex bottle and use it after you touch anything.....Go through a bottle every week or so.....I just carry it with me everywhere.....I honestly don't give a $hit.....I have a "high risk condition"......

Are those percentages of particles going out or in?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on December 05, 2020, 08:14:45 PM
I have been at one small funeral - about 50 people. Everybody wore a mask. Everybody social distanced. Zero people were infected.

I really hope the deaths stop, but I just can't care anymore when people won't even take the most basic, proven steps to prevent themselves from getting sick.

Can't we even expect people to take personal responsibility anymore? We have people on this board who traveled and got together over Thanksgiving. I assume many will do the same for Christmas. What is wrong here? These aren't stupid people, yet they act as though they are.

The former student comes from a part of the country where everyone (except for them and the sig other) proudly wear red colored hats with a specific slogan on them.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 05, 2020, 08:41:20 PM
The former student comes from a part of the country where everyone (except for them and the sig other) proudly wear red colored hats with a specific slogan on them.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxoUgYA1dqHedvDriO1qupoRkVO5vc-y5lAjf0V_Rr--jneXsUDXJU6lVx_MMPOIyUxxCWe6im&usqp=CAc)  ???
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on December 05, 2020, 09:19:39 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxoUgYA1dqHedvDriO1qupoRkVO5vc-y5lAjf0V_Rr--jneXsUDXJU6lVx_MMPOIyUxxCWe6im&usqp=CAc)  ???

That's the hat!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on December 08, 2020, 10:13:01 AM
CDC Director Nominee:

https://twitter.com/RWalensky/status/1336341842837827589?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on December 08, 2020, 11:15:19 AM
A great choice. Great track record. She will restore the CDC back to its rightful place as the premier organization of its type in the world.

It will once again be about disease control instead of politics.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 08, 2020, 09:59:31 PM
"In Idaho, officials had to shut down a *virtual* public meeting on covid b/c anti-mask protestors were banging on the doors at their houses during the call."
https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1336483828349751296

Chicos, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on December 08, 2020, 10:50:48 PM
"In Idaho, officials had to shut down a *virtual* public meeting on covid b/c anti-mask protestors were banging on the doors at their houses during the call."
https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1336483828349751296

Chicos, hey?

All because of one man.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 09, 2020, 06:06:28 AM
All because of one man.


Hardly.  Cmon.  Have you not been paying attention?

That one man could have helped, but people not trusting in government expertise has been a rot in this country for the last few decades.  How many people even on this board have uttered the "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" phrase in jest? 

The fact is that even when the government is actually trying to be helpful, it has been undermined for years.  It's going to take a LONG time for that to wash out of the system.  And likely never will because it's politically beneficial for some.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 09, 2020, 09:30:49 AM

Hardly.  Cmon.  Have you not been paying attention?

That one man could have helped, but people not trusting in government expertise has been a rot in this country for the last few decades.  How many people even on this board have uttered the "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" phrase in jest? 

The fact is that even when the government is actually trying to be helpful, it has been undermined for years.  It's going to take a LONG time for that to wash out of the system.  And likely never will because it's politically beneficial for some.

Hahaha I thought he was making a joke about Chicos
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 09, 2020, 10:14:12 AM

Hardly.  Cmon.  Have you not been paying attention?

That one man could have helped, but people not trusting in government expertise has been a rot in this country for the last few decades.  How many people even on this board have uttered the "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" phrase in jest? 

The fact is that even when the government is actually trying to be helpful, it has been undermined for years.  It's going to take a LONG time for that to wash out of the system.  And likely never will because it's politically beneficial for some.



You are right that it is not all because of one man. But rather than trying to help, that one man is aggressively trying to make an existing problem far worse.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on December 09, 2020, 02:45:46 PM
The governor of South Dakota -- where people are dying of COVID-19 at a stunning pace (deaths per capita) -- might be more criminally negligent than even Trump and Rudy. Naturally, she's a hero to some.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/12/09/south-dakota-mitchell-covid-masks/?arc404=true

MITCHELL, S.D. — A cold wind whipped through the prairie as they laid Buck Timmins to rest.

Timmins, a longtime coach and referee, was not the first person in Mitchell, S.D., pop. 15,600, to die of the coronavirus. He was not even the first that week.

As the funeral director tucked blankets over the knees of Timmins’s wife, Nanci, Pastor Rhonda Wellsandt-Zell told the small group of masked mourners that just as there had been seasons in the coach’s life — basketball season, football season, volleyball season — Mitchell was now enduring a phase of its own.

Pandemic season.

In a state where the Republican governor, Kristi L. Noem, has defied calls for a statewide mask mandate even as cases hit record levels, many in this rural community an hour west of Sioux Falls ignored the virus for months, not bothering with masks or social distancing. Restaurants were packed. Big weddings and funerals went on as planned.

Then people started dying. The wife of the former bank president. A state legislator. The guy whose family has owned the bike shop since 1959. Then Timmins, a mild-spoken 72-year-old who had worked with hundreds of local kids during six decades as a Little League and high school coach and referee.

His death shook Mitchell just as its leaders were contemplating something previously denounced and dismissed: a requirement that its staunchly conservative residents wear masks.

As Wellsandt-Zell led those mourning Timmins in the hymn “Jesus Loves Me,” the rumble of an approaching helicopter cut through the sound of the singing and the mourners’ soft tears. In Mitchell, the medical emergency helicopter, once a rare occurrence, now comes nearly every day, ferrying the growing number of people desperately ill with covid-19 to a hospital that might be able to save them.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on December 09, 2020, 04:51:45 PM
An American tragedy. All of the deaths. That's obvious.

But just as much of an American tragedy is that people won't even take 3 seconds to don a mask to save their own lives and the lives of their loved ones.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on December 09, 2020, 05:06:47 PM
An American tragedy. All of the deaths. That's obvious.

But just as much of an American tragedy is that people won't even take 3 seconds to don a mask to save their own lives and the lives of their loved ones.

And that they won’t do it for political reasons.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 09, 2020, 05:31:08 PM
yes, yes the horse is thoroughly beaten and has been dead for some time guys.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on December 09, 2020, 07:07:38 PM
Apparently not beaten near enough.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 10, 2020, 06:13:05 AM
Apparently not beaten near enough.

You're right, this is the place that people come to learn that you're upset that people don't wear masks, and that it is political.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 10, 2020, 08:38:22 AM
You're right, this is the place that people come to learn that you're upset that people don't wear masks, and that it is political.


The Covid board has gotten near unreadable because every other statement is a political one without substance. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 10, 2020, 09:34:38 AM

The Covid board has gotten near unreadable because every other statement is a political one without substance.



Agree that the political statements without substance are getting out of hand.

The other thing that makes this board unreadable are posters who make claims, then post links that directly contradict those claims. I wish people would look past the headline and read the actual article before they post something. I won't give examples because it would just reopen previous, fruitless arguments.

(And FWIW, I am not accusing you of this.)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on December 10, 2020, 11:29:58 AM
You're right, this is the place that people come to learn that you're upset that people don't wear masks, and that it is political.

It is not political. Try common sense.

I am upset because 3,100+ people died yesterday. I am upset that about 3,000 people died the day before. I am upset that more will die tomorrow and the tomorrows to follow. I am upset that many of these deaths could be prevented if people wore masks.

That is why I am beating the carcass of a horse. The fact is that the reason this many people are dying is because of politics. Pretend it doesn't exist or whine that you don't want to hear about it anymore, if you want.

That doesn't change the facts.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 10, 2020, 11:32:26 AM
It is not political. Try common sense.

I am upset because 3,100+ people died yesterday. I am upset that about 3,000 people died the day before. I am upset that more will die tomorrow and the tomorrows to follow. I am upset that many of these deaths could be prevented if people wore masks.

That is why I am beating the carcass of a horse. The fact is that the reason this many people are dying is because of politics. Pretend it doesn't exist or whine that you don't want to hear about it anymore, if you want.

That doesn't change the facts.

Yeah, we all know.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 10, 2020, 11:32:42 AM
Agreed its political. But, we differ on which party to blame, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 10, 2020, 11:34:01 AM
Agreed its political. But, we differ on which party to blame, hey?

never change.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 10, 2020, 12:01:01 PM
It is not political. Try common sense.

I am upset because 3,100+ people died yesterday. I am upset that about 3,000 people died the day before. I am upset that more will die tomorrow and the tomorrows to follow. I am upset that many of these deaths could be prevented if people wore masks.

That is why I am beating the carcass of a horse. The fact is that the reason this many people are dying is because of politics. Pretend it doesn't exist or whine that you don't want to hear about it anymore, if you want.

That doesn't change the facts.

“I’m so upset that I am endlessly posting the same thing on a message board.”
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 10, 2020, 12:02:38 PM
never change.

He didn't use aina.

Which is interesting in only that I have been doing Finnish on Duolingo and "aina" is the Finnish word for "always".
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 10, 2020, 12:17:09 PM
Agreed its political. But, we differ on which party to blame, hey?
JFC
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mu_hilltopper on December 10, 2020, 02:37:17 PM
Ok, back to masks now.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Plaque Lives Matter! on December 11, 2020, 03:50:46 AM
Agreed its political. But, we differ on which party to blame, hey?

You'd be screaming foul punching someone in the nuts, ala brad. TBH
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on December 11, 2020, 01:02:57 PM
A group calling itself Trump Event Images is organizing a "Trash the Mask" event in Charlotte. I wonder how many will end up very sick or dead because of it.

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/concord-mills-trash-the-mask-event-police-response/275-8b65d51c-925e-4f37-90c9-c435aca74476

CONCORD, N.C. — Officials in Concord, North Carolina, issued a statement saying they are aware of a "Trash the Mask" event being organized by anti-mask advocates at Concord Mills Mall Friday.

The event, which was organized on Facebook by Amy Moore Benjamin and a group called Trump Event Images, is in response to Gov. Roy Cooper's new COVID-19 restrictions, including the statewide nightly curfew that begins Friday. North Carolina is experiencing a major surge in COVID-19 cases that health officials project will only get worse as more infections linked to Thanksgiving are reported.

Organizers are asking supporters to show up at Concord Mills and meet in the food court Friday evening before going shopping, all while not wearing face masks. in November, Cooper issued an executive order that tightened North Carolina's mandate on face masks and top state health officials have asked the general public to wear masks to help slow the spread of COVID-19.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Marquette Fan on December 11, 2020, 09:06:39 PM
A group calling itself Trump Event Images is organizing a "Trash the Mask" event in Charlotte. I wonder how many will end up very sick or dead because of it.

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/concord-mills-trash-the-mask-event-police-response/275-8b65d51c-925e-4f37-90c9-c435aca74476

CONCORD, N.C. — Officials in Concord, North Carolina, issued a statement saying they are aware of a "Trash the Mask" event being organized by anti-mask advocates at Concord Mills Mall Friday.

The event, which was organized on Facebook by Amy Moore Benjamin and a group called Trump Event Images, is in response to Gov. Roy Cooper's new COVID-19 restrictions, including the statewide nightly curfew that begins Friday. North Carolina is experiencing a major surge in COVID-19 cases that health officials project will only get worse as more infections linked to Thanksgiving are reported.

Organizers are asking supporters to show up at Concord Mills and meet in the food court Friday evening before going shopping, all while not wearing face masks. in November, Cooper issued an executive order that tightened North Carolina's mandate on face masks and top state health officials have asked the general public to wear masks to help slow the spread of COVID-19.

Wow - that's about all I can say.  This event never ended up taking place at least - https://statesville.com/news/state-and-regional/trash-the-mask-event-at-concord-mills-fizzles-out/article_18185b4b-081a-595d-8879-0b647762f857.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on December 12, 2020, 10:26:32 PM
Looking out at the largely-maskless throng of attendees at a pro-Trump rally in Washington, D.C., on Saturday, Republican congressman-elect Bob Good dismissed the coronavirus pandemic as “phony” and lauded the crowd as “a group of people that gets it.”

“I can’t tell you how great it is to look out there and see your faces,” said Good, who won Virginia’s 5th Congressional District seat last month. “This looks like a group of people that gets it. This is a phony pandemic.”



These people are f’in crazy.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on December 12, 2020, 10:28:58 PM
3,100+ phony deaths yesterday. Now almost 300K phony dead Americans.

They. Simply. Don't. Care.

The biggest abdication of leadership in U.S. history. Disgusting.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on December 12, 2020, 11:49:45 PM
3,100+ phony deaths yesterday. Now almost 300K phony dead Americans.

They. Simply. Don't. Care.

The biggest abdication of leadership in U.S. history. Disgusting.

You sound like me now.

I’m sure Sultan will be admonishing you in the morning.  :-\
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 13, 2020, 08:09:40 AM
The biggest abdication of leadership in U.S. history. Disgusting.
No--best president in some people's lives doncha know.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on December 16, 2020, 09:48:17 AM
Dodge City, Kansas Mayor resigns because she no longer feels safe. She no longer feels safe due to the threats she received after issuing a mask mandate Nov 16th.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1339212351925592064?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 16, 2020, 11:04:27 AM
Dodge City, Kansas Mayor resigns because she no longer feels safe. She no longer feels safe due to the threats she received after issuing a mask mandate Nov 16th.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1339212351925592064?s=19

So she got the hell outta Dodge, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Marquette Fan on December 16, 2020, 08:45:15 PM
Looking out at the largely-maskless throng of attendees at a pro-Trump rally in Washington, D.C., on Saturday, Republican congressman-elect Bob Good dismissed the coronavirus pandemic as “phony” and lauded the crowd as “a group of people that gets it.”

“I can’t tell you how great it is to look out there and see your faces,” said Good, who won Virginia’s 5th Congressional District seat last month. “This looks like a group of people that gets it. This is a phony pandemic.”



These people are f’in crazy.

I fail to comprehend how anyone can stay with a straight face that this is pandemic is phony and it made me a little sick to my stomach when I read this story.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Marquette Fan on December 16, 2020, 09:16:03 PM
Parents charged with renting a party bus for their 14 year old's Birthday that had 60 kids on it without masks:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/16/us/party-bus-ohio-trnd/index.html

Besides the Covid implications there were fights when the kids got off the bus at the shopping mall and the police had to deal with it after the bus driver fled the scene.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on January 04, 2021, 09:53:48 AM
Century City Mall:

https://twitter.com/SamBraslow/status/1345916823951167488?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on January 04, 2021, 12:10:32 PM
Parents charged with renting a party bus for their 14 year old's Birthday that had 60 kids on it without masks:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/16/us/party-bus-ohio-trnd/index.html

Besides the Covid implications there were fights when the kids got off the bus at the shopping mall and the police had to deal with it after the bus driver fled the scene.

Ironically, this happened in a town called Mt. Healthy.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 04, 2021, 12:35:55 PM
hIronically, this happened in a town called Mt. Healthy.


That town name didn't age well....
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Marquette Fan on January 04, 2021, 07:18:56 PM
Ironically, this happened in a town called Mt. Healthy.

I didn't even pay attention to that part when I first read the story :) - that's probably because I grew up in Cincinnati though and have even been to Mt. Healthy before...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on January 04, 2021, 08:38:12 PM
I don’t blame the bus driver for fleeing. I’d have fled too.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: NWarsh on January 20, 2021, 05:43:06 PM
Not sure if this is the place for it or not, but we finally have a federal mandate on masks and social distancing.  Of course the scope is only at any federal buildings, but it is a start.  More importantly it sets the tone for how we should be talking about precautions from a national level.  Finally some leadership and direction from the top, only 8 months and 400K+ American lives too late.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on January 20, 2021, 06:44:00 PM
Not sure if this is the place for it or not, but we finally have a federal mandate on masks and social distancing.  Of course the scope is only at any federal buildings, but it is a start.  More importantly it sets the tone for how we should be talking about precautions from a national level.  Finally some leadership and direction from the top, only 8 months and 400K+ American lives too late.


Yep, he’s doing what he can. I fear, however, that he won’t reach many of the people who have been refusing to wear masks up until now. Only one person could have changed that, and he decided not to.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 20, 2021, 07:05:00 PM
Not sure if this is the place for it or not, but we finally have a federal mandate on masks and social distancing.  Of course the scope is only at any federal buildings, but it is a start.  More importantly it sets the tone for how we should be talking about precautions from a national level.  Finally some leadership and direction from the top, only 8 months and 400K+ American lives too late.

Interesting that while announcing the mandate WH spokeswoman was breaking the mandate already.  Not sure when it goes into effect but strange optic nonetheless
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 21, 2021, 06:56:32 AM
Interesting that while announcing the mandate WH spokeswoman was breaking the mandate already.  Not sure when it goes into effect but strange optic nonetheless

Yes, please post this type of stuff every time you see it.  We need the hypocrisy police out in full force now that we have a new administration.

Thank you for your service.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on January 21, 2021, 06:58:50 AM
Interesting that while announcing the mandate WH spokeswoman was breaking the mandate already.  Not sure when it goes into effect but strange optic nonetheless
You go, girl.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on January 22, 2021, 07:32:54 AM
Not sure if this is the place for it or not, but we finally have a federal mandate on masks and social distancing.  Of course the scope is only at any federal buildings, but it is a start.  More importantly it sets the tone for how we should be talking about precautions from a national level.  Finally some leadership and direction from the top, only 8 months and 400K+ American lives too late.

12 months - but who’s counting?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on February 03, 2021, 08:00:12 PM
Naples, Florida:

https://twitter.com/SamBrockNBC/status/1357047400548950023?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 03, 2021, 08:06:35 PM
Naples, Florida:

https://twitter.com/SamBrockNBC/status/1357047400548950023?s=19


Just saw that on the CNBC evening news. They interviewed the store owner, and he believes the death toll from Covid is dramatically overstated.🤦‍♂️
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on February 09, 2021, 12:32:50 PM
South Dakota:

https://twitter.com/govkristinoem/status/1359178756519321601?s=19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 09, 2021, 12:51:29 PM
South Dakota:

https://twitter.com/govkristinoem/status/1359178756519321601?s=19


Noem is the person primarily responsible for the dramatically higher the per capita Covid death rate in SD than in bordering states. In addition to her criminally irresponsible position on masks, there was the Sturgis rally, the July 4 Mt. Rushmore rally, and just all around general stupidity.

SD: 204/100K
ND: 187/100K
IA: 161/100K
MT: 122/100K
MN: 112/110K
WY: 107/100K
NE: 101/100K

She must be so proud that SD is 'winning' this.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 09, 2021, 04:42:29 PM

Noem is the person primarily responsible for the dramatically higher the per capita Covid death rate in SD than in bordering states. In addition to her criminally irresponsible position on masks, there was the Sturgis rally, the July 4 Mt. Rushmore rally, and just all around general stupidity.

SD: 204/100K
ND: 187/100K
IA: 161/100K
MT: 122/100K
MN: 112/110K
WY: 107/100K
NE: 101/100K

She must be so proud that SD is 'winning' this.

I'm shocked a Governor who signed off on this advertising campaign would be so bad when it comes to managing COVID in her state:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/18/south-dakota-meth-were-on-it-addiction-campaign
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 10, 2021, 05:05:18 PM
Interesting information in CDC's new guidance on masks. I'm not at all surprised by the general tenor - that more layers and better fit reduce risk. But I hadn't read about 'mask fitters' before, and hadn't suspected that there would be no benefit to wearing an additional layer over a KN-95 mask.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/effective-masks.html

I just ordered a $12.99 mask fitter to see how much better it makes my masks fit. Seems like a cheap way to reduce risk.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 10, 2021, 05:14:18 PM
II just ordered a $12.99 mask fitter to see how much better it makes my masks fit. Seems like a cheap way to reduce risk.

Don't tell me you ordered a "Badger Seal"!?!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on February 10, 2021, 06:39:01 PM
I’ve been doing the double mask in stores, cloth over disposable.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 10, 2021, 07:09:49 PM
Don't tell me you ordered a "Badger Seal"!?!


Yes, but I am renaming it. When it goes over my mask, it will be the Warrior Seal!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: injuryBug on February 11, 2021, 10:43:51 AM
So what happens when we no longer wear masks?  Will we see cold and flu of epic proportions?

With the way cold and flu have been controlled in schools this year does it make sense to wear masks in schools going forward or does it do more harm than good to our immune system down the road?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 11, 2021, 10:49:57 AM
Why worry 'bout dis wen wee got a coachin' crisis on hour handz, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUfan12 on February 11, 2021, 11:21:10 AM
does it do more harm than good to our immune system down the road?

Good question, and something I've wondered about as well. Anecdotally, the first cold I got this winter put me on my ass for almost a week. I felt so bad I went and got a COVID test to be sure it wasn't that. I do think it has something to do with the fact that my immune system hasn't been exposed to much in almost a year.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on February 11, 2021, 11:26:23 AM
Good question, and something I've wondered about as well. Anecdotally, the first cold I got this winter put me on my ass for almost a week. I felt so bad I went and got a COVID test to be sure it wasn't that. I do think it has something to do with the fact that my immune system hasn't been exposed to much in almost a year.

I’m in the same spot. Been pretty healthy but got a bug from my daughter’s daycare and it’s been brutal. Got my first Covid test (negative) out of it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 11, 2021, 12:29:56 PM
Good question, and something I've wondered about as well. Anecdotally, the first cold I got this winter put me on my ass for almost a week. I felt so bad I went and got a COVID test to be sure it wasn't that. I do think it has something to do with the fact that my immune system hasn't been exposed to much in almost a year.


It might be the lack of exposure to anything...but IMO it's more likely due to the effects of stress and anxiety on the immune system.

Regular exposure to a variety of stuff is critical for kids when they are first building up their immune systems, but it is less of a factor in adults. On the other hand, it is well known that prolonged stress and anxiety can weaken your immune system. Given the myriad of issues we have all been dealing with over the past year or so, I suspect most everybody is more stressed than usual.

https://www.apa.org/research/action/immune

For stress of any significant duration - from a few days to a few months or years, as happens in real life - all aspects of immunity went downhill. Thus long-term or chronic stress, through too much wear and tear, can ravage the immune system.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on February 11, 2021, 01:52:18 PM
I have my second Moderna  shot March 4, and after next week when I have some appointments, I intend to lie low in an effort to avoid picking any bugs up that could prevent me from getting it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 11, 2021, 02:00:38 PM
I have my second Moderna  shot March 4, and after next week when I have some appointments, I intend to lie low in an effort to avoid picking any bugs up that could prevent me from getting it.


Light at the end of the tunnel!

👍
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on February 12, 2021, 05:03:35 AM
IMO, masks should become a regular part of individual hygiene similar to washing hands.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 12, 2021, 06:15:34 AM
IMO, masks should become a regular part of individual hygiene similar to washing hands.

I wish you luck with this.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2021, 06:32:04 AM
IMO, masks should become a regular part of individual hygiene similar to washing hands.

That’s never going to happen. I am all for pandemic masking but when this is done, the masks get tossed.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on February 12, 2021, 06:51:32 AM
That’s never going to happen. I am all for pandemic masking but when this is done, the masks get tossed.

I think you’ll be surprised the amount of business that will make it part of the no shirt, no shoes,....now add no mask, no business policy.

I for one am all for it.  If we can’t take the lessons learned from the last year and move forward to improve in how we handle and mitigate seasonal influenza seasoning then we are admitting we’re ok with upwards of 80,000 annual preventable deaths. 

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 12, 2021, 07:02:58 AM
I think you’ll be surprised the amount of business that will make it part of the no shirt, no shoes,....now add no mask, no business policy.

I for one am all for it.  If we can’t take the lessons learned from the last year and move forward to improve in how we handle and mitigate seasonal influenza seasoning then we are admitting we’re ok with upwards of 80,000 annual preventable deaths.

1.  People won't comply with this since they don't comply with covid masking
2.  People will die no matter what you try to do prophylactically,
3.  It would be nice if people with influenza would/could stay home when sick, but we don't value labor in our society.
4.  Most people who die from Influenza have gotten medical treatment at the hospital, and our hospitals are not overwhelmed by Influenza cases every year.


I know you're trying really hard at this, and I just want you to know, you're doing a great job
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on February 12, 2021, 07:48:34 AM
I wish you luck with this.

Oh. It won't happen. Hence "should".

Lots of other nations/citizens use masks appropriately.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 12, 2021, 08:22:36 AM
Hilarious

https://youtu.be/tGjAL5ceFF4 (https://youtu.be/tGjAL5ceFF4)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 12, 2021, 08:24:00 AM
Hilarious

https://youtu.be/tGjAL5ceFF4 (https://youtu.be/tGjAL5ceFF4)

Hah nice
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on February 12, 2021, 09:13:27 AM
Oh. It won't happen. Hence "should".

Lots of other nations/citizens use masks appropriately.

In non-pandemic times?  And what is “appropriately”?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 12, 2021, 09:14:06 AM
IMO, masks should become a regular part of individual hygiene similar to washing hands.
[/




Are you Asian, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 12, 2021, 09:29:13 AM
IMO, masks should become a regular part of individual hygiene similar to washing hands.

I could see an argument that if the US persists with the work first no matter how you feel culture that masks should be worn by those with any pending ailment. However, I definitely don't think they're better for society to become a part of hygiene in general. That to me rings like when the world became obsessed with hand sanitizer and antibiotics and now a few strands of super bugs exists
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 12, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
Humans still have immune systems too. Or, has that been taken away also, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 12, 2021, 10:07:25 AM
I don't think masks will - or should - become required or generally expected in non-pandemic times. However, I suspect we will see more people voluntarily wearing masks, especially in higher-risk (crowded indoor) situations. Maybe like places in Asia, maybe less so...but very likely more than we have seen here in the past.

I live in Rochester, where the Mayo Clinic is the dominant employer and immunocompromised patients are everywhere. So in my 22+ years here, I have gotten used to seeing a few masked people most anytime I go shopping or walking around downtown. Well under 1% in pre-pandemic times (higher if I happen to be near the Cancer Center), but still common enough not to be surprising or unexpected. My hunch is that this will happen most everywhere, with mask use becoming an everyday thing for a small slice of the population.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on February 12, 2021, 10:18:42 AM
Getting rid of the work through any illness culture would be a start.
When I was still working I woke up one morning feeling truly awful, but was going to drag myself in because I had a case actually set for a pretrial hearing, not just status cases. Until I realized that I was doing my client no favors, with a criminal case involved, by showing up in the less-than-stellar condition I was in, aside from spreading germs around. The judge wanted my supervisor to do the motions instead, but luckily I had the file  with me at home. It was the right decision. I was in no shape to provide effective representation.
It will be interesting to see what next winter brings in terms of masks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on February 12, 2021, 10:28:16 AM
Pre pandemic, I spent significant time each year in Asia (HK, China, Singapore, Japan).  Post-SARS, masks became a bit of a thing in the region, which is what I imagine Jesu is referring to.  But again, it’s very small.  Outside of airports where it may be a handful of people you see, you may see a couple on the street, amongst millions of people.  It’s far from a standard or regular thing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUBurrow on February 12, 2021, 10:36:39 AM
I don't think masks will - or should - become required or generally expected in non-pandemic times. However, I suspect we will see more people voluntarily wearing masks, especially in higher-risk (crowded indoor) situations.

This. Not being half sick all winter has kicked ass, and I'm going to try to remind myself of that post-covid.  Once covid fades, I have a feeling most people will be back to mocking stereotypical asian mask wearing, but I don't have the hubris for that. I'll be wearing a mask at the airport, crowded shopping areas, etc., during the winter months for sure, and maybe year round for the forseeable future.

Idk if I mentioned this earlier in this thread, but I know a lot of US healthcare providers have had zoom calls and presentations from southeast asian healthcare providers about hospital traffic flow, PPE usage, etc., throughout the pandemic.  There are a lot of lessons we have been ignoring from those folks that its not too late to take to heart.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on February 12, 2021, 03:31:30 PM
1.  People won't comply with this since they don't comply with covid masking
2.  People will die no matter what you try to do prophylactically,
3.  It would be nice if people with influenza would/could stay home when sick, but we don't value labor in our society.
4.  Most people who die from Influenza have gotten medical treatment at the hospital, and our hospitals are not overwhelmed by Influenza cases every year.


I know you're trying really hard at this, and I just want you to know, you're doing a great job

1) I’m not saying it’ll be perfect compliance but I imagine a lot of businesses will post signage asking at least which is certainly the businesses right to do.
2) I’m not expecting zero deaths with masking during flu season, but 50% reduction would be huge!!  Follow the science
3) With folks and businesses now being much more comfortable with work from home hopefully we get chip away at the “work at all costs” mentality.
4) That’s not true.

Thank you for your support in my hope that masking/social gathering limitations etc will make its way into our normal routine during influenza season, as stated above it is what the science supports.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on February 12, 2021, 03:44:42 PM
If healthy people want to wear masks when in risky situations (height of flu season, indoors, for example), then fine.

I'm more thinking of those who are symptomatic (coughing, sneezing, etc) with a potentially contagious illness who are going to be in close proximity to others. Those are the folks who, in my scenario, should be wearing masks.

Again, this would be completely voluntary. But, seeing as how poor hand hygiene is, I don't see this catching on anytime soon.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on February 12, 2021, 04:01:18 PM
If healthy people want to wear masks when in risky situations (height of flu season, indoors, for example), then fine.

I'm more thinking of those who are symptomatic (coughing, sneezing, etc) with a potentially contagious illness who are going to be in close proximity to others. Those are the folks who, in my scenario, should be wearing masks.

Again, this would be completely voluntary. But, seeing as how poor hand hygiene is, I don't see this catching on anytime soon.

Fair point, and I tend to agree with your conclusion, but again, I’m curious as to where this sort of behavior is commonplace that we should aspire to, cause I’ve yet to experience it
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 12, 2021, 04:11:57 PM
Ever been in a men's bathroom at a busy airport?  Next time you're there, watch how many people don't wash their hands after shaking hands with the mare!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on February 12, 2021, 05:52:23 PM
Fair point, and I tend to agree with your conclusion, but again, I’m curious as to where this sort of behavior is commonplace that we should aspire to, cause I’ve yet to experience it

Mostly, I've seen it across various asian countries. Certainly not a majority, however.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Chili on February 13, 2021, 07:08:49 PM
Pre pandemic, I spent significant time each year in Asia (HK, China, Singapore, Japan).  Post-SARS, masks became a bit of a thing in the region, which is what I imagine Jesu is referring to.  But again, it’s very small.  Outside of airports where it may be a handful of people you see, you may see a couple on the street, amongst millions of people.  It’s far from a standard or regular thing.

And a few of those are just hiding plastic surgery bruising too. Especially in Korea.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on February 13, 2021, 07:11:08 PM
And a few of those are just hiding plastic surgery bruising too. Especially in Korea.

masks on der boobies?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 14, 2021, 09:54:23 AM
masks on der boobies?

I know you're just joking, but plastic surgery is very common in SK.  Noses and eyes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 06, 2021, 11:54:25 AM
IMO, masks should become a regular part of individual hygiene similar to washing hands.

Do you mean when someone is out and about when they are sick? Or are you just that crazy?  8-)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on March 06, 2021, 12:08:55 PM
Pre pandemic, I spent significant time each year in Asia (HK, China, Singapore, Japan).  Post-SARS, masks became a bit of a thing in the region, which is what I imagine Jesu is referring to.  But again, it’s very small.  Outside of airports where it may be a handful of people you see, you may see a couple on the street, amongst millions of people.  It’s far from a standard or regular thing.

Honestly, in places like crowded airports, and subways during flu season. A mask would be a smart thing.

I don't think it becomes a common aspect of life here, but in those types of situations, I could see it become more common and accepted.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on March 06, 2021, 12:12:51 PM
Honestly, in places like crowded airports, and subways during flu season. A mask would be a smart thing.

I don't think it becomes a common aspect of life here, but in those types of situations, I could see it become more common and accepted.

After all this, I'll probably keep a KN95 in my backpack when I travel (I have plenty of them now..).  Covid has gotten rid of most of the "that's weird" stigma of wearing a mask - and if end up on a plane sitting next to someone sniffling/coughing/sneezing, I'd even consider putting it on.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUfan12 on March 16, 2021, 10:23:17 AM
Yesterday, Biden said we will all need to wear masks until everyone is vaccinated.

I've been a good soldier this whole time, but this rhetoric is wearing on me. What is the endgame here? Zero-COVID is completely unrealistic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/15/us/politics/joe-biden-vaccine-republicans.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 16, 2021, 10:25:44 AM
Yesterday, Biden said we will all need to wear masks until everyone is vaccinated.

I've been a good soldier this whole time, but this rhetoric is wearing on me. What is the endgame here? Zero-COVID is completely unrealistic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/15/us/politics/joe-biden-vaccine-republicans.html

My understanding is it's till we've had 70% vaccination rate in the country. Isn't that what it takes for herd immunity?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 16, 2021, 11:35:14 AM
If anyone thinks people will be masking significantly after Memorial Day, they're kidding themselves.  Especially if the "third wave" never really materializes.

We will know in just a few days if lifting orders in places like Texas had much of an impact.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on March 16, 2021, 11:50:53 AM
If anyone thinks people will be masking significantly after Memorial Day, they're kidding themselves.  Especially if the "third wave" never really materializes.

We will know in just a few days if lifting orders in places like Texas had much of an impact.

While I sadly agree with you about masks, the current plateau is at the level of last summer’s wave. And no sign of it going down significantly, especially with more contagious variants.
In Georgia right now. Masks are being worn by about 60% of prying the grocery store despite constant announcements and signs saying they are required.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 16, 2021, 11:54:56 AM
Let's see where we are in a few weeks.  My guess is that we will see an uptick in cases, but not nearly as much as some would have thought.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 16, 2021, 06:58:24 PM
Let's see where we are in a few weeks.  My guess is that we will see an uptick in cases, but not nearly as much as some would have thought.

  you betcha fluff, all those covid positive illegals coming in with no masks, then being released somewhere.  talk about "superspreaders", holy schnikees man...you guys all good with this?  i'm going to sit back and watch the excuse makers for this one.  and their "experts" are saying they're trying to fix an inherited "broken system"?  not a crisis...yet?  this is just wrong and dangerous for all of us
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2021, 08:03:04 PM
  you betcha fluff, all those covid positive illegals coming in with no masks, then being released somewhere.  talk about "superspreaders", holy schnikees man...you guys all good with this?  i'm going to sit back and watch the excuse makers for this one.  and their "experts" are saying they're trying to fix an inherited "broken system"?  not a crisis...yet?  this is just wrong and dangerous for all of us

Can you update us on hydroxy?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 16, 2021, 08:52:00 PM
Can you update us on hydroxy?

Give it a rest.  Jaysus Christ, Jacky boy.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on March 16, 2021, 09:12:23 PM
Give it a rest.  Jaysus Christ, Jacky boy.

What's wrong with asking?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on March 17, 2021, 06:34:32 AM
  you betcha fluff, all those covid positive illegals coming in with no masks, then being released somewhere.  talk about "superspreaders", holy schnikees man...you guys all good with this?  i'm going to sit back and watch the excuse makers for this one.  and their "experts" are saying they're trying to fix an inherited "broken system"?  not a crisis...yet?  this is just wrong and dangerous for all of us

The people running around wearing no mask all have something in common. They are white, and wear red hats.

Fortunately, in some of the areas where they have removed mask ordinances and capacity limits, most have stores/restaurants have kept them in place, because it is better for business.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 17, 2021, 07:47:38 PM
Can you update us on hydroxy?

  dr harvey risch, epidemiology professor yale school of public health

"“It's a political drug now, not a medical drug, and that's caused the complete population's ignorance. And I think we're basically fighting a propaganda war against the medical facts, and that color is not just the population of people, how they think about it, but doctors as well,” Risch said earlier in the interview.

Risch also addressed colleagues who have denounced using the drug as a treatment for coronavirus patients.

“There are many doctors that I’ve gotten hostile remarks about, saying that all the evidence is bad for it, and, in fact, that is not true at all,” Risch said, claiming the medication can be used as a "prophylactic" for front-line workers.

“All the evidence is actually good for it when it is used in outpatient uses. Nevertheless, the only people who actually see that are a whole pile of doctors who are on the front lines treating those patients across the country, and they are the ones who are at risk of being forced not to do it,” Risch said.


  ok jesu guy, now 'splain to me when our "administration" is going to stop the superspreaders from illegally invading our country including the human traffickers, sex traffickers, drug traffickers, child porn rings etc  they are getting making bank on this crisis that isn't a crisis but FEMA needs to be involved.  otherwise, no biggee eyn'a? 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on March 17, 2021, 09:19:26 PM
Well, at least you’ve moved on from that other esteemed doctor, Stella Immanuel.

Demon Seed Forever, oona?

Obviously, Tucker is your new go-to.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 18, 2021, 09:00:06 AM
Well, at least you’ve moved on from that other esteemed doctor, Stella Immanuel.

Demon Seed Forever, oona?

Obviously, Tucker is your new go-to.
Facts? Overrated!
Scientific studies? Ignore them!
Anecdotal evidence? The gold standard for healthcare "professionals".

Fortunately rocket and Louie Gohmert are on top of the southern border issue as well. With that kind of intellectual horsepower...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 18, 2021, 10:55:49 AM
  note no one wants to address the newest real double bonus- superspreaders coming into this country illegally by the thousands. including drug runners, child predators, terrorists, sex trade traffickers... seems this new transparency is about as clear as chit about what's going on except that it's a "challenge"?  let the reporters and politicians in to see and report on what is really going on!

      the lack of transparency is alarming and should scare the bejesus out of all of us.  what are they afraid to show us?  they've re-created a problem(multiplied) that we were well on our way to fixing in the most humane way possible.  now, under the guise of being humane, we are putting so many people into harms way in multiple ways.  walls do work btw
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on March 18, 2021, 11:09:42 AM
Lol
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 18, 2021, 11:15:28 AM
  note no one wants to address the newest real double bonus- superspreaders coming into this country illegally by the thousands. including drug runners, child predators, terrorists, sex trade traffickers... seems this new transparency is about as clear as chit about what's going on except that it's a "challenge"?  let the reporters and politicians in to see and report on what is really going on!

      the lack of transparency is alarming and should scare the bejesus out of all of us.  what are they afraid to show us?  they've re-created a problem(multiplied) that we were well on our way to fixing in the most humane way possible.  now, under the guise of being humane, we are putting so many people into harms way in multiple ways.  walls do work btw

You're becoming a charicature.  Just stop.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on March 18, 2021, 11:16:12 AM
Yes rocket.  Separating children from their parents for months was quite humane.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on March 18, 2021, 11:20:09 AM
  note no one wants to address the newest real double bonus- superspreaders coming into this country illegally by the thousands. including drug runners, child predators, terrorists, sex trade traffickers... seems this new transparency is about as clear as chit about what's going on except that it's a "challenge"?  let the reporters and politicians in to see and report on what is really going on!

      the lack of transparency is alarming and should scare the bejesus out of all of us.  what are they afraid to show us?  they've re-created a problem(multiplied) that we were well on our way to fixing in the most humane way possible.  now, under the guise of being humane, we are putting so many people into harms way in multiple ways.  walls do work btw

dude.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: withoutbias on March 18, 2021, 11:51:47 AM
At least SOMETHING opened his eyes to covid being a real issue. I’m sure he’ll take it very seriously now with all the scary aliens we are allowing to roam freely throughout our great country.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on March 18, 2021, 11:55:21 AM
Thanks, Rudy.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on March 18, 2021, 12:17:32 PM
You're becoming a charicature.  Just stop.


He forgot to mention the part about Muslim terrorists sneaking in with these rapists and drug dealers.

His ignorance is absolutely stunning.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 26, 2021, 06:53:22 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1375253401647341569

So far so good despite the doom and gloom predictions.  Still early but 🤞🤞
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on March 26, 2021, 07:42:22 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1375253401647341569

So far so good despite the doom and gloom predictions.  Still early but 🤞🤞

Let's hope that's accurate.

But we've seen how things developed in NY and FL...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2021, 07:50:05 AM
Fingers crossed is a great way to characterize our 2020 plan.  We've fingers crossed our way to 560K deaths - just a staggering number of people.   

Clearly is one more surge left (before mass vaccine/summer).  Hopefully much less strain on the hospitals this time with a lot of the vulnerable now fully vaccinated.  It's not like any of these preventative items are fool proof and each counter-measure we erode (masks, bars, full in person dining, people just sick of being cooped up and mixing) increases the likelihood.  It's already started in the northeast.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on March 26, 2021, 08:47:22 AM
You're becoming a charicature.  Just stop.

you dont seem to want to honestly address the issue hards.  just because it wasn't on his "cheat sheet note cards" they aren't allowing press down there until they get it all cleaned up. they are bringing in unknown numbers of covid infected people and releasing them back into our country as our numbers were showing a drop in positive tests and hospitalizations. not to mention the STD's they are also carrying in  the guy we have is the caricature: my God he can't talk extemporaneously at all, looks to his guys for when to talk, walks like a stiff board. at least the latest reports show he was able to dodge that sniper fire climbing the steps of air force one pretty good sustaining only a dog bite injury 
    reminds me of when stalin didn't allow
 the outsiders in until they could get the cardboard cutouts in place, the streets cleaned up and the people to smile...nothing the matter here
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2021, 09:03:06 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1375253401647341569

So far so good despite the doom and gloom predictions.  Still early but 🤞🤞


Excellent news. And early evidence that the unaccompanied minors being allowed to cross the southern border aren't likely bringing a new wave of Covid.

Great to see positive trends.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 26, 2021, 09:09:53 AM
you dont seem to want to honestly address the issue hards.  just because it wasn't on his "cheat sheet note cards" they aren't allowing press down there until they get it all cleaned up. they are bringing in unknown numbers of covid infected people and releasing them back into our country as our numbers were showing a drop in positive tests and hospitalizations. not to mention the STD's they are also carrying in  the guy we have is the caricature: my God he can't talk extemporaneously at all, looks to his guys for when to talk, walks like a stiff board. at least the latest reports show he was able to dodge that sniper fire climbing the steps of air force one pretty good sustaining only a dog bite injury 
    reminds me of when stalin didn't allow
 the outsiders in until they could get the cardboard cutouts in place, the streets cleaned up and the people to smile...nothing the matter here

I'm always happy to honestly discuss any topic.  You're just easily scared of brown people.  I get it.  I called you a caricature because you're espousing the same views that the American population of the mid 1800s had towards the Irish immigrants. 

I don't think that the border crisis you've been told about is nearly as bad as you've been lead to believe.  The media has nothing to talk about, no new scandal for the week, and they're happy to push whatever xenophobic nonsense people like you love to gobble up.  It's all out of the same playbook and you're a sucker for buying it.  Notice how they've largely moved on from that story to the gun control debate?  It's like watching a rerun for the 100th time.  The same points come from both sides, and nothing changes.  And in a couple of months they'll play it again, Sam.  Slop for the hogs.  Dig in, buddy!

I think your strange obsession with Joe Biden's ability to walk up stairs is pretty hilarious considering Trump had trouble with a ramp, and raising a glass to his mouth.  Its all BS anyway.  If we wanted someone who could do those things we should probably stop electing old farts to run the country.

Though, none of this has anything to do with Masks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 26, 2021, 09:16:04 AM

Excellent news. And early evidence that the unaccompanied minors being allowed to cross the southern border aren't likely bringing a new wave of Covid.

Great to see positive trends.

Imagine how much lower there %positive would be without the documented Covid + immigrants crossing the border and being released into communities across Texas is what I think you were trying to say.

If they had 0% positivity rate your comment would make sense.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 26, 2021, 09:26:51 AM
Imagine how much lower there %positive would be without the documented Covid + immigrants crossing the border and being released into communities across Texas is what I think you were trying to say.

If they had 0% positivity rate your comment would make sense.


No - that is not what I said.

You assume the %positive is higher among immigrants than the native Texas population. Do you have any data to back that up, or do you just assume that Fox News is guessing correctly?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on March 26, 2021, 02:47:55 PM

No - that is not what I said.

You assume the %positive is higher among immigrants than the native Texas population. Do you have any data to back that up, or do you just assume that Fox News is guessing correctly?

Sorry got distracted, what a great day!!!

But to your question HHS data shows about 1 in 10 are testing positive. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on March 26, 2021, 02:55:14 PM
Michigan has a 15% positivity rate right now.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on March 26, 2021, 03:05:35 PM
Michigan has a 15% positivity rate right now.

Are people still paying attention to this metric?  It's just as meaningless as it was a year ago. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on March 26, 2021, 03:34:03 PM
Are people still paying attention to this metric?  It's just as meaningless as it was a year ago. 

It's one of the only leading indicators we have, and it has been a good-to-great predictor of hospital admittances a few weeks out.

What leading indicator do you use?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on March 26, 2021, 04:33:39 PM
It's one of the only leading indicators we have, and it has been a good-to-great predictor of hospital admittances a few weeks out.

What leading indicator do you use?

Hospitalizations and deaths.

Unless the population of who is getting tested remains consistent, the percentage positive doesn't mean anything.

Do you think that the same types of people are getting tests now for the same reasons?  You have to take a test to go to Hawaii, for example.  That wasn't a thing even a few months ago.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on March 26, 2021, 05:37:49 PM
Hospitalizations and deaths.

Unless the population of who is getting tested remains consistent, the percentage positive doesn't mean anything.

Do you think that the same types of people are getting tests now for the same reasons?  You have to take a test to go to Hawaii, for example.  That wasn't a thing even a few months ago.

So your leading indicator is a lagging indicator? Got it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on March 26, 2021, 06:16:23 PM
So your leading indicator is a lagging indicator? Got it.

It's certainly a more accurate gauge of the severity of the problem at a certain point in time.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2021, 07:45:41 PM
This is the best leading indicator.

https://yalecovidwastewater.com/reports (https://yalecovidwastewater.com/reports)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on March 27, 2021, 11:27:48 AM
This is the best leading indicator.

https://yalecovidwastewater.com/reports (https://yalecovidwastewater.com/reports)
That's fascinating and brilliant.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on March 27, 2021, 11:48:48 AM
That's fascinating and brilliant.

Price aside, this would be much easier to roll out nationwide than mandatory randomized testing. More ethical, too.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on June 07, 2021, 12:24:19 PM
Not shocking, but good confirmation:

COVID-19 positivity rate is lowest among those who always wore a mask (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-masks-fewer-positive-tests-87a97b0f-6d30-4440-a16f-ef73bb859c2b.html)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 07, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
Not shocking, but good confirmation:

COVID-19 positivity rate is lowest among those who always wore a mask (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-masks-fewer-positive-tests-87a97b0f-6d30-4440-a16f-ef73bb859c2b.html)

How could this have been affected by those who always wore masks also were the most likely to stay home and avoid public places? I've heard from people who hadn't been to a restaurant in 14 months and those who worked from home the entire time. Those are the people most likely to say they always wore a mask.

I did always wear a mask where it was required or encouraged. I was also tested weekly.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 07, 2021, 09:04:06 PM
Nice to see the majority of Walgreens' employees sans masks the last 2 weeks.  The drug store leading the way in following the science and showing people its OK to be vaccinated and maskless.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: HansMoleman on June 07, 2021, 09:24:38 PM
Just got back from two weeks in FL with the fam.  It was glorious.  Busch gardens, Disney (outdoors), the Trop, Marlins Park... smiling faces everywhere!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 07, 2021, 09:29:23 PM
Just got back from two weeks in FL with the fam.  It was glorious.  Busch gardens, Disney (outdoors), the Trop, Marlins Park... smiling faces everywhere!

First time in written history that The Trop was included in a paragraph with the word glorious.   ;D
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: HansMoleman on June 07, 2021, 09:34:24 PM
First time in written history that The Trop was included in a paragraph with the word glorious.   ;D
Ha! It was actually quite enjoyable.  Great game, good food, and the staff was super friendly.  A few stopped and chatted with us and answered all our questions.  And my boys got 5 balls during batting practice and between innings!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 08, 2021, 04:57:25 AM
First time in written history that The Trop was included in a paragraph with the word glorious.   ;D

While this may be true, it's not as bad a place to see a game as always joked about.  There something to be said for going from 95 deg to always 75.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on June 08, 2021, 08:44:32 AM
Just got back from two weeks in FL with the fam.  It was glorious.  Busch gardens, Disney (outdoors), the Trop, Marlins Park... smiling faces everywhere!
[/b]
Must have been fans of the other team then.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 08, 2021, 10:13:35 AM
Of course they were smiling because as everyone knows, Florida has no cases......
I’ve been to the Trop. I don’t care what the circumstances are, it’s not glorious.....
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on June 08, 2021, 01:05:44 PM
Not shocking, but good confirmation:

COVID-19 positivity rate is lowest among those who always wore a mask (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-masks-fewer-positive-tests-87a97b0f-6d30-4440-a16f-ef73bb859c2b.html)

Surprised to see that number so high honestly, 11% still tested positive after social distancing and wearing a mask religiously but only 23% tested positive who did neither? 

And wasn’t the whole social distancing thing proven recently to be a waste of time since the virus was airborne and not primarily passed via respiratory droplets?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on June 08, 2021, 01:32:54 PM
Surprised to see that number so high honestly, 11% still tested positive after social distancing and wearing a mask religiously but only 23% tested positive who did neither? 

And wasn’t the whole social distancing thing proven recently to be a waste of time since the virus was airborne and not primarily passed via respiratory droplets?

Not entirely surprising. I would consider myself a religious mask wearer and was mostly a hermit, but still did things that put me at risk. Looking back, there were a few events I’d probably do differently. We were just lucky others weren’t positive.

I’m guessing people probably say they were being super cautious, but then you hear the same people say they went to a friends house or went out to dinner, but took all the precautions. It’s human nature and I’m guilty of doing that. I don’t think anyone could completely take the risk away. I’d say cutting your odds in half is pretty significant.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on June 10, 2021, 09:41:12 PM
Curious Scoopers thoughts on this one. Our daycare just removed masks being mandatory for everyone in the center, regardless of vaccination status. Our daughter is under a year and it makes me a bit nervous an unvaccinated teacher could be caring for her without a mask.

Anyone else have daycares doing similar things?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 11, 2021, 05:51:27 AM
Curious Scoopers thoughts on this one. Our daycare just removed masks being mandatory for everyone in the center, regardless of vaccination status. Our daughter is under a year and it makes me a bit nervous an unvaccinated teacher could be caring for her without a mask.

Anyone else have daycares doing similar things?

I wouldn't like it if it was my child at daycare.  But then I look at the current infection rates in WI, and hope that we can continue our trend.

Definitely a hard place you've been put in.  You could always just ask the staff if they've been vaccinated.  Anyone with a strong negative response or "I don't have to tell you" is probably not.  Likely a reasonable way to judge compliance within the facility without stepping on too many toes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 11, 2021, 10:35:04 AM
Curious Scoopers thoughts on this one. Our daycare just removed masks being mandatory for everyone in the center, regardless of vaccination status. Our daughter is under a year and it makes me a bit nervous an unvaccinated teacher could be caring for her without a mask.

Anyone else have daycares doing similar things?

Agree, you should be concerned.  If I were you, I'd see if I could grab the attention of other parents at the daycare.   Get a 'union' together with the simple decree:  Vaccinate all workers or we're leaving.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUfan12 on June 11, 2021, 11:08:28 AM
Curious Scoopers thoughts on this one. Our daycare just removed masks being mandatory for everyone in the center, regardless of vaccination status. Our daughter is under a year and it makes me a bit nervous an unvaccinated teacher could be caring for her without a mask.

Anyone else have daycares doing similar things?

So this is interesting... MU's child care center is still requiring everyone to wear masks, including kids 3 and up because of what their state licensor is asking of them.

I'm honestly not thrilled that they're requiring kids that young to wear them, but hey, at least they get to take them off outside after wearing them in 90 degree weather last week...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on June 11, 2021, 11:13:39 AM
Agree, you should be concerned.  If I were you, I'd see if I could grab the attention of other parents at the daycare.   Get a 'union' together with the simple decree:  Vaccinate all workers or we're leaving.

Looks like many other parents had the same thought as we just got the email reversing the decision.

MUFan12, I agree. Ours is 5 and up for masks, but don’t believe they need them outside. Nor should they in my opinion.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 11, 2021, 02:29:05 PM
My daughters work a summer camp in our hometown in Connecticut.  Kids up to Grade 6.
Last year the counselors had to wear masks but the kids did not.  This summer both kids and counselors need to wear masks even though they and the other counselors they know are already vaccinated.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on June 12, 2021, 07:20:48 AM
My daughters work a summer camp in our hometown in Connecticut.  Kids up to Grade 6.
Last year the counselors had to wear masks but the kids did not.  This summer both kids and counselors need to wear masks even though they and the other counselors they know are already vaccinated.

That seems over the top, something the camp is doing for appearances.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 12, 2021, 08:39:29 AM
That seems over the top, something the camp is doing for appearances.

My kids shrug it off.  We had to wear to work last year, well just do it again this year.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 13, 2021, 08:37:54 AM
I have now gone two straight weeks without wearing a mask anywhere.  Always have it with me when I go to the store or out to eat, but no one is requiring it for people who are vaccinated like me.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jsglow on June 13, 2021, 08:57:33 AM
I have now gone two straight weeks without wearing a mask anywhere.  Always have it with me when I go to the store or out to eat, but no one is requiring it for people who are vaccinated like me.

Trying to remember my last time wearing one. I'm thinking it was doctor's office around May 21st. I think I wore one about 4-5 times back in May including early month trips to Costco and Menards when it was still policy.  I don't have a flight scheduled for about 2 months.  At my advanced age, I give myself a 50% chance to forget one on the way to the airport!  ::)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 13, 2021, 11:12:41 AM
I have now gone two straight weeks without wearing a mask anywhere.  Always have it with me when I go to the store or out to eat, but no one is requiring it for people who are vaccinated like me.

I've been a week. I had to wear one to my daughter's graduation last Sunday. Aside from that, it's been a couple weeks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on June 15, 2021, 08:48:42 AM
I have now gone two straight weeks without wearing a mask anywhere.  Always have it with me when I go to the store or out to eat, but no one is requiring it for people who are vaccinated like me.

It is a strange new world we live in. I just had my first plane trip since covid. Masks obviously required. Same for Uber/Lyft trips. But then I was in crowded bars, casinos, and other venues. No mask. 
Was interesting to see the social distancing spots still in place, yet no masks required.

Wish more people would get jabbed though.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 15, 2021, 08:52:23 AM
I predicted back in May that the mask requirements for airports and airplanes would be dropped by July 4.  I don't think that looks like a good prediction now.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on June 15, 2021, 09:38:04 AM
I predicted back in May that the mask requirements for airports and airplanes would be dropped by July 4.  I don't think that looks like a good prediction now.

I am not sure you will be that far off. But likely airports/airplanes and medical facilities will be the last places they are required.
Actually, I was happy I had a mask on in the plane. Guy next to me was coughing up a lung the entire flight. Maybe I won't get sick.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 16, 2021, 12:09:08 PM
I am not sure you will be that far off. But likely airports/airplanes and medical facilities will be the last places they are required.
Actually, I was happy I had a mask on in the plane. Guy next to me was coughing up a lung the entire flight. Maybe I won't get sick.

Add all public transportation to that and you've got a bingo
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 16, 2021, 02:32:49 PM
I predicted back in May that the mask requirements for airports and airplanes would be dropped by July 4.  I don't think that looks like a good prediction now.

I'm flying to Mexico in 10 days, I'll be bringing multiple masks and mints for the flights. My buddy warned me about mask breath during long flights.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Lens on June 16, 2021, 02:35:43 PM
I'm flying to Mexico in 10 days, I'll be bringing multiple masks and mints for the flights. My buddy warned me about mask breath during long flights.

I'm all for masks on flights and have worn on two separate trips to FLA.  But it's kind of ridiculous that they keep serving drinks and all of a sudden the entire plane is de-masked, eating pretzels and drinking.   I usually waited.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on June 16, 2021, 04:36:40 PM
Add all public transportation to that and you've got a bingo

I give it about 3 months post-full mask restriction lifting on all forms of travel before seeing a mask is a rarity.

As for flights, I’ve specifically been holding off  on booking a few longer flights till I get a better sense for masking on flights being lifted.  It is what it is for like a 2 hour flight from Midwest out east, but I was on a 3.5 hour flight and by the end it was getting pretty annoying.  A trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific flight in a mask sounds like absolute hell.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 16, 2021, 05:08:47 PM
I give it about 3 months post-full mask restriction lifting on all forms of travel before seeing a mask is a rarity.

As for flights, I’ve specifically been holding off  on booking a few longer flights till I get a better sense for masking on flights being lifted.  It is what it is for like a 2 hour flight from Midwest out east, but I was on a 3.5 hour flight and by the end it was getting pretty annoying.  A trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific flight in a mask sounds like absolute hell.

Yeah, I'm guessing Labor day... or July 4th if we can get our vaccination numbers up.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on June 17, 2021, 08:26:20 AM
Yeah, I'm guessing Labor day... or July 4th if we can get our vaccination numbers up.

By Labor Day, we'll be hearing about the need for booster shots.

My wife and her fellow RNs, who received their vaccinations in January, already are being told that September is a likely timeline for boosters; lots of talk for them about getting their annual flu shots at the same time.

Given how the vaccine went over like a lead balloon for an unfortunately large swath of American society, just trying to imagine how well booster shots will go over.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on June 17, 2021, 08:42:09 AM
Dr. Murphy on WGN just said this morning that the preliminary data looking out  six months and longer is looking pretty good, it was in response to a question from someone who was in a Moderna trial last September/October worried that the vaccine has worn off. He didn’t tell the questioner to run out and get a booster shot, which is good news so far. Though it might be simpler to combine boosters if they think they might be needed with a flu shot.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 22, 2021, 03:29:19 PM
https://www.channel3000.com/mmsd-shares-covid-19-safety-plan-for-2021-22-school-year/?alert=2660940&alert_type=banner

Key practices from the plan include the following:

    Masks will be required for students and staff while inside school buildings and on buses
    No masks required during outdoor activities or while eating or drinking
    Maintaining a minimum three feet of physical distancing (when possible) for all individuals
    Scheduled cleaning of district buildings throughout the day
    Following practices of proper handwashing, respiratory etiquette and monitoring symptoms
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 22, 2021, 08:15:36 PM
Sounds reasonable. Hopefully, vaccines are approved and mandated for children before the holidays.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 23, 2021, 05:55:50 PM
New mask mandate for St. Louis City and County. Kansas City likely to announce theirs shortly, ages 5 and up.

Springfield, MO has 544 hospitalizations and 222 ICU patients. They are trying to convert a hotel to medical space. 2,865 new state cases today.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 23, 2021, 06:57:22 PM
New mask mandate for St. Louis City and County. Kansas City likely to announce theirs shortly, ages 5 and up.

Springfield, MO has 544 hospitalizations and 222 ICU patients. They are trying to convert a hotel to medical space. 2,865 new state cases today.

All 222 patients in ICU (many who will die) could have prevented this if they wanted.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: naginiF on July 23, 2021, 07:03:56 PM
New mask mandate for St. Louis City and County. Kansas City likely to announce theirs shortly, ages 5 and up.

Springfield, MO has 544 hospitalizations and 222 ICU patients. They are trying to convert a hotel to medical space. 2,865 new state cases today.
KC citizens already moving in that direction - some businesses are back to mask mandates, our local grocery store is over 50% masked, obvious social distancing between pedestrians, etc.

Can't wait for people in the burbs to get mad at the local gov and not at their fellow citizens who acted totally irresponsible.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on July 23, 2021, 08:01:14 PM
I find it funny that those who won’t get vaccinated are causing another mask mandate. Especially when I’m guessing they are unlikely to wear masks anyways.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUfan12 on July 27, 2021, 10:23:25 AM
No doubt in my mind that the CDC will be kicking off the next round of mask mandates with this guidance.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/27/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on July 27, 2021, 11:40:01 AM
No doubt in my mind that the CDC will be kicking off the next round of mask mandates with this guidance.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/27/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine

I’m sure that will go over swimmingly. Is it right to infer that there’s not really a change to the science, but rather vaccinated people should wear masks so it will be easier for stores, bars, etc. to enforce a mask mandate?

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 27, 2021, 11:51:48 AM
I’m sure that will go over swimmingly. Is it right to infer that there’s not really a change to the science, but rather vaccinated people should wear masks so it will be easier for stores, bars, etc. to enforce a mask mandate?


Yep.  Since places aren't allowed to use vaccine passports, everyone might have to mask up again because people won't get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUfan12 on July 27, 2021, 03:24:24 PM
What a terribly disheartening day.

We're shifting the burden back onto the 70% of adults who have been, or are in the process of becoming fully vaccinated. And we're increasing it on kids, which really irritates me. All while going back to the vaccine undercutting rhetoric from March.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on July 27, 2021, 03:31:42 PM
We needed vaccine passports 6 months ago.

So, everyone has to wear masks - except for those who refuse - because people refuse to get a vaccine and we have an outbreak amongst the unvaccinated (which is the same group who will refuse mask).

This is so, so dumb.

The unvaccinated have had their chances. The rest of us shouldn't be punished to protect them when they won't protect themselves.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 27, 2021, 03:39:07 PM
I suspect that outside governmental entities and places with mask requirements already in place (health care facilities, transportation), this new guidance will be met largely with a collective shrug. The vaccinated aren't going to embrace mask wearing to the benefit of those who refuse to get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on July 27, 2021, 03:40:08 PM
What a terribly disheartening day.

We're shifting the burden back onto the 70% of adults who have been, or are in the process of becoming fully vaccinated. And we're increasing it on kids, which really irritates me. All while going back to the vaccine undercutting rhetoric from March.



Shouldn't the unvaccinated kids be masked anyway?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 27, 2021, 03:40:23 PM
The unvaccinated have had their chances. The rest of us shouldn't be punished to protect them when they won't protect themselves.
Which is why we should have a vaccine passport system (as you said)...which unsurprisingly the same people are having a tantrum about.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on July 27, 2021, 03:45:03 PM
<sigh>
Anti-mask Huntington Beach restaurant says it will only serve unvaccinated diners
https://www.ocregister.com/2021/07/26/anti-mask-huntington-beach-restaurant-says-it-will-only-serve-unvaccinated-diners/
While the emergence of the Delta variant of COVID-19 has many businesses and consumers proceeding with caution, Basilico’s Pasta E Vino in Huntington Beach continues with its campaign of noncompliance with state safety recommendations. It recently posted a sign saying it will be asking diners for “proof” of being unvaccinated.
It’s the latest in a series of defiant actions from the restaurant, which started with an anti-masking campaign in May 2020. The restaurant asked customers to remove masks when they were inside.
A message from ownership posted Saturday, June 27, 2020 (https://www.ocregister.com/2020/06/29/huntington-beach-restaurant-stirs-controversy-online-with-anti-mask-stance/) on social media explained, “So to be clear, if you enter the restaurant for dine in, and want to wear a mask, you must remove it when sitting down. If you are standing around inside and waiting for a table, or waiting inside to pick up food for yourself or as a third party delivery driver, and you are wearing a mask, you will be asked to wait outside.”


Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 27, 2021, 03:46:47 PM
<sigh>
Anti-mask Huntington Beach restaurant says it will only serve unvaccinated diners
https://www.ocregister.com/2021/07/26/anti-mask-huntington-beach-restaurant-says-it-will-only-serve-unvaccinated-diners/
While the emergence of the Delta variant of COVID-19 has many businesses and consumers proceeding with caution, Basilico’s Pasta E Vino in Huntington Beach continues with its campaign of noncompliance with state safety recommendations. It recently posted a sign saying it will be asking diners for “proof” of being unvaccinated.
It’s the latest in a series of defiant actions from the restaurant, which started with an anti-masking campaign in May 2020. The restaurant asked customers to remove masks when they were inside.
A message from ownership posted Saturday, June 27, 2020 (https://www.ocregister.com/2020/06/29/huntington-beach-restaurant-stirs-controversy-online-with-anti-mask-stance/) on social media explained, “So to be clear, if you enter the restaurant for dine in, and want to wear a mask, you must remove it when sitting down. If you are standing around inside and waiting for a table, or waiting inside to pick up food for yourself or as a third party delivery driver, and you are wearing a mask, you will be asked to wait outside.”
Darwinism at its finest, except their stupidity affects everyone not just their selfish selves.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 27, 2021, 03:51:34 PM
Darwinism at its finest, except their stupidity affects everyone not just their selfish selves.

They are prolonging the epidemic.

They are killing people.

We need to treat them with the disdain they deserve.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 27, 2021, 04:27:56 PM
Predictable.   Oh, wait, I did.   I blame the Biden administration for not pushing mandates and passports as soon as they took office.    The only way this was going to be stopped was to get to herd immunity, and the science said that was a minimum 70% vaccination rate.    There were too many death cult disinformation believers to get there without mandates.  The Biden administration was naive to believe that 70+% would do the right thing.   

So, back to masks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 27, 2021, 05:02:01 PM
Well as a side note, the aluminum mask wire that my company makes should pick back up after petering out 2 months ago
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: BM1090 on July 27, 2021, 07:23:20 PM
Predictable.   Oh, wait, I did.   I blame the Biden administration for not pushing mandates and passports as soon as they took office.    The only way this was going to be stopped was to get to herd immunity, and the science said that was a minimum 70% vaccination rate.    There were too many death cult disinformation believers to get there without mandates.  The Biden administration was naive to believe that 70+% would do the right thing.   

So, back to masks.

73.3% of adults in the US have received at least one dose.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 27, 2021, 07:30:21 PM
CDC's latest says that 56.4% of Americans have received at least one shot.    48.8% are fully vaccinated.     This includes children.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: reinko on July 27, 2021, 07:46:53 PM
73.3% of adults in the US have received at least one dose.

Would love a source on this one.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on July 27, 2021, 08:03:58 PM
Would love a source on this one.

Washington Post reported at the end of June that 66% of adults had at least one dose.  So another 7% in the last month wouldn't shock me
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: BM1090 on July 27, 2021, 08:58:02 PM
Would love a source on this one.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

"The introduction of J&J’s one-shot option should make it easier to vaccinate hard-to-reach populations. So far, 189 million Americans have received at least one dose of a vaccine—73.3% of the adult population."

This website is updated daily.

Maybe I'm misreading it. Does it mean that 189 million Americans are vaccinated, which would be enough to cover 73.3% of the adult population? Odd to throw that line in there, if so.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: BM1090 on July 27, 2021, 08:58:33 PM
CDC's latest says that 56.4% of Americans have received at least one shot.    48.8% are fully vaccinated.     This includes children.   

Including those who are ineligible, correct?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on July 27, 2021, 09:07:33 PM
health care worker here... despite being vaccinated I tested positive yesterday after sudden onset of fever and chills.  I'm actually surprised I haven't been infected sooner due to continual exposure at work.  This strain is no joke as vaccinated people are supposed to get milder illness and I have never been so sick with fever, chills and borderline pulse-ox.   My employee health is seeing cases in vaccinated employees skyrocket due to delta variant.  Delta variant causes 1200 times higher viral load than original sars-cov-2 virus.  This is what viruses do to survive... they mutate into more pathogenic variants.  If more people got vaccinated we would have avoided this, but now we are screwed.  We will be back to lockdowns and mask mandates again due to the unvaccinated folks.  If more were vaccinated to the point of herd immunity, the delta variant would have never happened.  Now it's too late. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 28, 2021, 05:15:21 AM
Good luck to you.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 28, 2021, 07:29:22 AM
health care worker here... despite being vaccinated I tested positive yesterday after sudden onset of fever and chills.  I'm actually surprised I haven't been infected sooner due to continual exposure at work.  This strain is no joke as vaccinated people are supposed to get milder illness and I have never been so sick with fever, chills and borderline pulse-ox.   My employee health is seeing cases in vaccinated employees skyrocket due to delta variant.  Delta variant causes 1200 times higher viral load than original sars-cov-2 virus.  This is what viruses do to survive... they mutate into more pathogenic variants.  If more people got vaccinated we would have avoided this, but now we are screwed.  We will be back to lockdowns and mask mandates again due to the unvaccinated folks.  If more were vaccinated to the point of herd immunity, the delta variant would have never happened.  Now it's too late.

So sad to hear this, BRMT.

COVID-19 is NOT over, even for the fully vaccinated, because selfish people just don't care about their fellow human beings.

I hope that other health-care heroes are somehow spared what you are going through, and I wish you a swift, full recovery from this effen virus.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on July 28, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
So sad to hear this, BRMT.

COVID-19 is NOT over, even for the fully vaccinated, because selfish people just don't care about their fellow human beings.

I hope that other health-care heroes are somehow spared what you are going through, and I wish you a swift, full recovery from this effen virus.

Why shouldn't it be?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on July 28, 2021, 08:37:01 AM
Why shouldn't it be?

My only thought would be if the vaccinated can pass on the Delta variant or if the vaccines are no longer protecting against serious illness. Previous guidance made it sound like it was very unlikely to pass along, so if that hasn’t changed, then I agree.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 28, 2021, 08:40:08 AM
My only thought would be if the vaccinated can pass on the Delta variant or if the vaccines are no longer protecting against serious illness. Previous guidance made it sound like it was very unlikely to pass along, so if that hasn’t changed, then I agree.

This has changed from what I understand (vaccinated transmission) the protection has not.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 28, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
Why shouldn't it be?

Did you not read BRMT's post, jes?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 28, 2021, 09:23:28 AM
The delta variant emerged in Dec 2020,  we'll before vaccinations were available to most people.

Honestly surprised that an E variant hasn't been discovered yet. 

BRMT, what's worse:  covid or giving Bo a back rub?  Get well soon, pardner.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on July 28, 2021, 09:34:09 AM
The delta variant emerged in Dec 2020,  we'll before vaccinations were available to most people.

Honestly surprised that an E variant hasn't been discovered yet.

BRMT, what's worse:  covid or giving Bo a back rub?  Get well soon, pardner.

I am sure they are out there, but if this is 1000X more contagious like has been thrown about, that seems like a really high bar for something to out-compete it, right?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 28, 2021, 09:52:17 AM
Unvaccinated people kill.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUBurrow on July 28, 2021, 10:08:48 AM
Did you not read BRMT's post, jes?

If we define "over" as "the vaccinated never get sick" then this will never be over.  To borrow from the earlier erroneous comparison, so long as the vaccine makes this like the flu and anyone who wants a vaccine can get one, then this is over for the vaccinated.  I don't say that to undermine how much it sucks to be as sick as BRMT is right now - BRMT, my well wishes for a speedy and full recovery.  But covid is here to stay, and if we don't think this is over until its been eradicated, it will never be "over."

My only thought would be if the vaccinated can pass on the Delta variant or if the vaccines are no longer protecting against serious illness. Previous guidance made it sound like it was very unlikely to pass along, so if that hasn’t changed, then I agree.

This I agree with.  My only hesitation to declare this over is that we still don't have a vaccine that is approved for kids.  If the vaccinated can spread delta to unvaccinated children, then even the vaccinated gotta be adults and do what we have to do.  This is already falling disproportionately on kids, so re-masking up isn't too much to ask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on July 28, 2021, 10:37:32 AM
Did you not read BRMT's post, jes?

I did.

Breakthrough illness will happen in the vaccinated.

But, as far as we know, the vaccines are preventing serious illness/death. Even with Delta.

Therefore, this should, for all intents and purposes, be over for vaccinated with regards to pandemic level restrictions.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Its DJOver on July 28, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
Going to a Covid-19 board to declare that Covid-19 is over has similarities with going to a UW-Madison basketball board to declare that there is no rivalry with MU right after MU beats UW-M.  The fact that this board still has activity kind of proves that this is not over. 

To be clear, I'm not of the opinion that in order to classify Covid-19 as over there need to be zero cases.  Remember when the biggest virus threat to an Olympics was the Zika virus?  There were still confirmed Zika cases in the US in 2020, but the fact that no one has posted on the Zika thread in 5 years suggests that that threat is over for all intents and purposes.  I'm not sure what my exact criteria for declaring this over would be, but we certainly aren't there yet.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 28, 2021, 11:18:58 AM
I did.

Breakthrough illness will happen in the vaccinated.

But, as far as we know, the vaccines are preventing serious illness/death. Even with Delta.

Therefore, this should, for all intents and purposes, be over for vaccinated with regards to pandemic level restrictions.

Yes, it "should" be over.

Of course I'm heartened by the research that most vaccinated people aren't getting hospitalization-level sick and definitely that they're not dying. But not all that long ago, none of us had even heard of the Delta variant. Viruses find ways to mutate and invade. What will the next variant be like?

I guess I'm just uncomfortable with the certainty, because I don't think we're anywhere near certain.

Having said all that, as a vaccinated person, I have not been living in a bunker. I have been enjoying as close to a level of "normalcy" as we can have given the circumstances, and I've not been wearing a mask.

It looks like mask-wearing indoors again will be a thing, and if so I'll go back to wearing one. As a couple others have said, it does piss me off that the acts of selfish twats make those of us who are doing the right thing have to take a big step backward -- especially since those twats will continue to refuse to get vaccinated and to wear masks -- but that's life when you share a country with selfish twats.

I feel especially bad for red-state residents who have been doing the right thing. Not only are their "friends" and neighbors letting them down, but in many cases the leaders of those states have been actively working to undermine the life-saving vaccines.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 28, 2021, 11:21:10 AM
Yes, it "should" be over.

Of course I'm heartened by the research that most vaccinated people aren't getting hospitalization-level sick and definitely that they're not dying. But not all that long ago, none of us had even heard of the Delta variant. Viruses find ways to mutate and invade. What will the next variant be like?

I guess I'm just uncomfortable with the certainty, because I don't think we're anywhere near certain.

Having said all that, as a vaccinated person, I have not been living in a bunker. I have been enjoying as close to a level of "normalcy" as we can have given the circumstances, and I've not been wearing a mask.

It looks like mask-wearing indoors again will be a thing, and if so I'll go back to wearing one. As a couple others have said, it does piss me off that the acts of selfish twats make those of us who are doing the right thing have to take a big step backward -- especially since those twats will continue to refuse to get vaccinated and to wear masks -- but that's life when you share a country with selfish twats.

I feel especially bad for red-state residents who have been doing the right thing. Not only are their "friends" and neighbors letting them down, but in many cases the leaders of those states have been actively working to undermine the life-saving vaccines.

For example, news in Connecticut last week said of 2.4mil fully vaccinated state residents there were only 936 recorded breakthrough infections.
Get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on July 28, 2021, 11:41:27 AM
I did.

Breakthrough illness will happen in the vaccinated.

But, as far as we know, the vaccines are preventing serious illness/death. Even with Delta.

Therefore, this should, for all intents and purposes, be over for vaccinated with regards to pandemic level restrictions.

That will be such good news to our fully vaxxed next door neighbor who is currently in the ICU with Covid. I’ll be sure and pass along your assurances. I’m sure it will be a huge comfort to him and his wife.
He is older, but that was his only issue.
We are starting to see more and more break through cases. Ignoring that isn’t a wise move.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 28, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
That will be such good news to our fully vaxxed next door neighbor who is currently in the ICU with Covid. I’ll be sure and pass along your assurances. I’m sure it will be a huge comfort to him and his wife.
He is older, but that was his only issue.
We are starting to see more and more break through cases. Ignoring that isn’t a wise move.


Yes, we should base all of our public health decisions on your next door neighbor.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 28, 2021, 12:51:13 PM
Dose of reality here, guys.  If delta was breaking through vaccinated people and getting them hospitalized, we'd see the numbers that show it.  But we don't.  99% of people who are ending up in the hospital with covid are unvaccinated.  Period.  While I don't dispute what our fellow doctor claims to see, the numbers don't lie.

There is a section of this board that doesn't want to follow science anymore, and I find it a tad disturbing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 28, 2021, 01:03:59 PM
Dose of reality here, guys.  If delta was breaking through vaccinated people and getting them hospitalized, we'd see the numbers that show it.  But we don't.  99% of people who are ending up in the hospital with covid are unvaccinated.  Period.  While I don't dispute what our fellow doctor claims to see, the numbers don't lie.

There is a section of this board that doesn't want to follow science anymore, and I find it a tad disturbing.


The only reason vaccinated people are likely going to be masking up again is because unvaccinated people can't be trusted to do it on their own.  So yet again, the people who follow the science are being dragged down by those who won't.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 28, 2021, 01:05:26 PM

The only reason vaccinated people are likely going to be masking up again is because unvaccinated people can't be trusted to do it on their own.  So yet again, the people who follow the science are being dragged down by those who won't.

Correct. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 28, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

"The introduction of J&J’s one-shot option should make it easier to vaccinate hard-to-reach populations. So far, 189 million Americans have received at least one dose of a vaccine—73.3% of the adult population."

This website is updated daily.

Maybe I'm misreading it. Does it mean that 189 million Americans are vaccinated, which would be enough to cover 73.3% of the adult population? Odd to throw that line in there, if so.

That's a source, but I don't know where they got the data.  I always go right to the CDC:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations
As of today

% of Total Population
At Least One Dose
57.1%
Fully Vaccinated
49.3%

% of Population ≥ 12 Years of Age
At Least One Dose
66.8%
Fully Vaccinated
57.6%

% of Population ≥ 18 Years of Age
At Least One Dose
69.3%
Fully Vaccinated
60.2%

% of Population ≥ 65 Years of Age
At Least One Dose
89.6%
Fully Vaccinated
79.9%
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 28, 2021, 04:50:05 PM
That's a source, but I don't know where they got the data.  I always go right to the CDC:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations
As of today

% of Total Population
At Least One Dose
57.1%
Fully Vaccinated
49.3%

% of Population ≥ 12 Years of Age
At Least One Dose
66.8%
Fully Vaccinated
57.6%

% of Population ≥ 18 Years of Age
At Least One Dose
69.3%
Fully Vaccinated
60.2%

% of Population ≥ 65 Years of Age
At Least One Dose
89.6%
Fully Vaccinated
79.9%

So if 70% is the magic number for herd immunity, the buffalo theory should kick in about now, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on July 28, 2021, 05:39:12 PM
Yes, it "should" be over.

Of course I'm heartened by the research that most vaccinated people aren't getting hospitalization-level sick and definitely that they're not dying. But not all that long ago, none of us had even heard of the Delta variant. Viruses find ways to mutate and invade. What will the next variant be like?

I guess I'm just uncomfortable with the certainty, because I don't think we're anywhere near certain.

Having said all that, as a vaccinated person, I have not been living in a bunker. I have been enjoying as close to a level of "normalcy" as we can have given the circumstances, and I've not been wearing a mask.

It looks like mask-wearing indoors again will be a thing, and if so I'll go back to wearing one. As a couple others have said, it does piss me off that the acts of selfish twats make those of us who are doing the right thing have to take a big step backward -- especially since those twats will continue to refuse to get vaccinated and to wear masks -- but that's life when you share a country with selfish twats.

I feel especially bad for red-state residents who have been doing the right thing. Not only are their "friends" and neighbors letting them down, but in many cases the leaders of those states have been actively working to undermine the life-saving vaccines.

A group of this country will never mask or get vaccines or follow pandemic protocols.

So, with regards to fear of new variants (which are driven by spread from those not following protocols/getting vaccines), how long do we need to go through this? Until every non-compliant person gets the illness?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 28, 2021, 08:25:11 PM
Yes, it "should" be over.

Of course I'm heartened by the research that most vaccinated people aren't getting hospitalization-level sick and definitely that they're not dying. But not all that long ago, none of us had even heard of the Delta variant. Viruses find ways to mutate and invade. What will the next variant be like?

I guess I'm just uncomfortable with the certainty, because I don't think we're anywhere near certain.

Having said all that, as a vaccinated person, I have not been living in a bunker. I have been enjoying as close to a level of "normalcy" as we can have given the circumstances, and I've not been wearing a mask.

It looks like mask-wearing indoors again will be a thing, and if so I'll go back to wearing one. As a couple others have said, it does piss me off that the acts of selfish twats make those of us who are doing the right thing have to take a big step backward -- especially since those twats will continue to refuse to get vaccinated and to wear masks -- but that's life when you share a country with selfish twats.

I feel especially bad for red-state residents who have been doing the right thing. Not only are their "friends" and neighbors letting them down, but in many cases the leaders of those states have been actively working to undermine the life-saving vaccines.




Let's just let those unvaccinated come right over the Mexican border, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 28, 2021, 08:30:33 PM
Yeah, that is the problem in Arkansas, Missouri, Alaska.    Reddest of red herrings.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 28, 2021, 08:40:30 PM
Yeah, that is the problem in Arkansas, Missouri, Alaska.    Reddest of red herrings.

The 2 aren't mutually exclusive, but nice try.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 28, 2021, 08:43:41 PM
The 2 aren't mutually exclusive, but nice try.

When I hear 4ever complain about the people in Arkansas and Missouri, I’ll believe that he believes that. Especially since that’s exactly where the problems are focused right now.  Until then….
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 28, 2021, 08:51:58 PM
Yeah, that is the problem in Arkansas, Missouri, Alaska.    Reddest of red herrings.

this is being widely reported.  i think your herring just went from "red" to poof.  gotta pay attention to the inconvenient news too tower.  and hey, even the "main stream journalists" are reporting. 

what about giving them a couple of jabs on there way in as a part of their welcome wagon package...USA...USA...USA...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/whistleblowers-say-they-were-told-downplay-covid-outbreak-among-migrant-n1275261
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on July 28, 2021, 08:54:42 PM
Yes...immigrants are why red America won't get vaccinated. So true.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on July 28, 2021, 08:55:37 PM
this is being widely reported.  i think your herring just went from "red" to poof.  gotta pay attention to the inconvenient news too tower.  and hey, even the "main stream journalists" are reporting. 

what about giving them a couple of jabs on there way in as a part of their welcome wagon package...USA...USA...USA...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/whistleblowers-say-they-were-told-downplay-covid-outbreak-among-migrant-n1275261

Yep. Too bad we couldn’t do our moral duty to keep them safe.

And I think your idea is a great one!  Free J&J shots to all migrants would be an excellent way to slow spread.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: naginiF on July 28, 2021, 10:24:32 PM
this is being widely reported.  i think your herring just went from "red" to poof.  gotta pay attention to the inconvenient news too tower.  and hey, even the "main stream journalists" are reporting. 

what about giving them a couple of jabs on there way in as a part of their welcome wagon package...USA...USA...USA...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/whistleblowers-say-they-were-told-downplay-covid-outbreak-among-migrant-n1275261
Have you apologized to Reinko and his family yet?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 28, 2021, 10:31:15 PM



Let's just let those unvaccinated come right over the Mexican border, aina?

Them damn rapists are streaming over the Mexican border -- despite the big, beautiful wall that Mexico paid for -- and really causing COVID-19 numbers to spike in Florida, Arkansas and Missouri, nu?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: reinko on July 29, 2021, 02:23:12 AM
Have you apologized to Reinko and his family yet?

He has.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 29, 2021, 05:04:37 AM



Let's just let those unvaccinated come right over the Mexican border, aina?

Wait until the Irish get here
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: naginiF on July 29, 2021, 08:04:28 AM
He has.
Thanks
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 29, 2021, 09:06:09 AM
Can't find enough workers! Worker shortage! Nobody will take our crappy, low-paying jobs!

Don't let in any of those immigrants who are trying to escape violence and poverty ... they'll take all of our crappy, low-paying jobs ... not to mention make more anti-vax Missourians sick with COVID-19.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on July 29, 2021, 09:09:37 AM
When in doubt, blame "the other."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUBurrow on July 29, 2021, 09:11:57 AM
nm
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 29, 2021, 03:37:45 PM
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0025619621004018?dgcid=author


Mayo clinic with a study about the effectiveness of masks.   (Hint:  they help a lot)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 29, 2021, 04:15:06 PM
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0025619621004018?dgcid=author


Mayo clinic with a study about the effectiveness of masks.   (Hint:  they help a lot)

That should convince anti-vaxxers.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on July 29, 2021, 04:23:11 PM
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0025619621004018?dgcid=author


Mayo clinic with a study about the effectiveness of masks.   (Hint:  they help a lot)

I'm glad you posted this; it's nice to see scientific evidence, and nice to see BS debunked.

But everybody who is willing to wear a mask will wear one without knowing what this study says ... and people who are opposed wouldn't wear them if scientific studies said masks would save their own mothers' lives.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on July 29, 2021, 04:39:57 PM
I'm glad you posted this; it's nice to see scientific evidence, and nice to see BS debunked.

But everybody who is willing to wear a mask will wear one without knowing what this study says ... and people who are opposed wouldn't wear them if scientific studies said masks would save their own mothers' lives.

Yea. The Facebook posts I see from relatives that say they are anti-vax and anti-mask because it’s their choice what risks they take are so infuriating. They’ve also lost people close to them from Covid, but don’t seem to want to do anything to stop it.

I’m not sure what it will take for people to change. I’m sure a full approval from the FDA will influence some, but probably not enough.

Just frustrating how we’ve taken it seriously and done our part by sacrificing time with friends and family, not gone on trips, etc. now that we are so close to the finish line, others screwed it up.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 30, 2021, 05:58:52 AM
Yea. The Facebook posts I see from relatives that say they are anti-vax and anti-mask because it’s their choice what risks they take are so infuriating. They’ve also lost people close to them from Covid, but don’t seem to want to do anything to stop it.

I’m not sure what it will take for people to change.
I’m sure a full approval from the FDA will influence some, but probably not enough.

Just frustrating how we’ve taken it seriously and done our part by sacrificing time with friends and family, not gone on trips, etc. now that we are so close to the finish line, others screwed it up.

A much higher percentage of people will have to die for this to happen.  Just the sad reality of humans.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on July 30, 2021, 06:09:45 AM
Yea. The Facebook posts I see from relatives that say they are anti-vax and anti-mask because it’s their choice what risks they take are so infuriating. They’ve also lost people close to them from Covid, but don’t seem to want to do anything to stop it.

I’m not sure what it will take for people to change. I’m sure a full approval from the FDA will influence some, but probably not enough.

Just frustrating how we’ve taken it seriously and done our part by sacrificing time with friends and family, not gone on trips, etc. now that we are so close to the finish line, others screwed it up.

Why would it? I don't understand this line of thinking. So many folks, including those who point out the vaccine is emergency use only, put non-FDA approved stuff in their bodies every day.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 30, 2021, 06:28:57 AM
Why would it? I don't understand this line of thinking. So many folks, including those who point out the vaccine is emergency use only, put non-FDA approved stuff in their bodies every day.

Because it’s a culture war now
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: shoothoops on July 30, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
There’s a difference between the categories of people not getting the vaccine.

Underserved minority communities that have a long deep justified of medicine/healthcare. Anti-vax. And, Trumper group think political fanatics. The vaccine compliance strategies vary depending on the type.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 30, 2021, 09:59:44 AM
A Republican-controlled committee in Madison plans to block the University of Wisconsin from instituting COVID-19 testing, masking and vaccination protocols on campuses across the state.


We know who the killers are.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 30, 2021, 12:12:28 PM
A Republican-controlled committee in Madison plans to block the University of Wisconsin from instituting COVID-19 testing, masking and vaccination protocols on campuses across the state.


We know who the killers are.

Yikes, I suppose UW-Madison will go remote in retaliation? It's weird seeing Wisconsin be so regressive in the past few years. Not the same Wisconsin I grew up in.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on July 30, 2021, 12:15:29 PM
A Republican-controlled committee in Madison plans to block the University of Wisconsin from instituting COVID-19 testing, masking and vaccination protocols on campuses across the state.


We know who the killers are.
Pro-virus.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on July 30, 2021, 12:27:55 PM
Yikes, I suppose UW-Madison will go remote in retaliation? It's weird seeing Wisconsin be so regressive in the past few years. Not the same Wisconsin I grew up in.

It's what happens when the state is gerrymandered to hell.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on July 30, 2021, 05:37:44 PM
Pro-virus.

And these same people are opening numerous probes to "prove" the Wisconsin election was a fraud.

Killers AND traitors for the price of one.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on July 31, 2021, 10:11:13 PM
DeSantis bans mask mandates in Florida.

Also Florida:

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 31, 2021, 10:12:40 PM
DeSantis bans mask mandates in Florida.

Also Florida:

I've heard hospitals want covid patients because the can make so much more money
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on July 31, 2021, 11:08:27 PM
DeSantis bans mask mandates in Florida.

Also Florida:

Desantis vs Disney should be fun to watch
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 01, 2021, 11:13:31 AM
DeSantis bans mask mandates in Florida.

Also Florida:

And they have the highest number of 1 day cases since the pandemic began.  Yuck
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 01, 2021, 12:01:29 PM
At least he is raising money selling beer koozies that disparage Fauci.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 01, 2021, 01:07:41 PM
At least he is raising money selling beer koozies that disparage Fauci.

And he has stopped any effort to get people vaccinated. Winning!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2021, 12:38:35 PM
Thoughts on the NIH director recommending parents wear masks at home around their children?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 03, 2021, 01:06:02 PM
Thoughts on the NIH director recommending parents wear masks at home around their children?

i didnt see this, but it just is mind boggling that we have not embraced cheap, rapid antigen testing.  I think they are like a buck a test in concept and in practice.  I would rather do that from time to time to see if I am shedding rather than adopt countermeasures at home.

edit: I would do the above if I was symptomatic until I could get tested....even though I am vaccinated.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 03, 2021, 01:32:27 PM
Thoughts on the NIH director recommending parents wear masks at home around their children?

Delta variant is that bad and it affects children far worse than the other variants.    If I had unvaccinated children at home, especially doing what I do, I would seriously consider it at this point.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on August 03, 2021, 02:37:38 PM
Maybe a silly question, but as a vaccinated person, am I any more protected going into a store with a mask if no one else is wearing a mask? I thought a mask didn’t have much protection in stopping the virus. I would assume with Delta being more contagious, a mask still only protects others and not me.

If I was knowingly around someone with Covid, I’d probably wear a mask at home and avoid my daughter. For sure if I started having a cough. I don’t know that it’s feasible to do it all the time regardless of exposure.

Granted, I could probably count on one hand the number of times I’m indoors and in close contact with someone per week. Much less someone unvaccinated. We will see what happens when the weather changes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 03, 2021, 06:10:26 PM
Thoughts on the NIH director recommending parents wear masks at home around their children?

He clarified that statement.

@NIHDirector: Let me clarify the masking message that I garbled on @NewDay this morning. Vaccinated parents who live in communities with high COVID transmission rates should mask when out in public indoor settings to minimize risks to their unvaccinated kids. No need to mask at home.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 03, 2021, 06:18:21 PM
He clarified that statement.

@NIHDirector: Let me clarify the masking message that I garbled on @NewDay this morning. Vaccinated parents who live in communities with high COVID transmission rates should mask when out in public indoor settings to minimize risks to their unvaccinated kids. No need to mask at home.

@Tower912 stand down, you can stay maskless while at home guilt free. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 03, 2021, 07:20:42 PM
He clarified that statement.

@NIHDirector: Let me clarify the masking message that I garbled on @NewDay this morning. Vaccinated parents who live in communities with high COVID transmission rates should mask when out in public indoor settings to minimize risks to their unvaccinated kids. No need to mask at home.

Thats a much more reasonable take that I have no issue with.  Good on him for clarifying because his point this morning was nowhere near that.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: SERocks on August 04, 2021, 07:58:46 AM
Maybe a silly question, but as a vaccinated person, am I any more protected going into a store with a mask if no one else is wearing a mask?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0025619621004018?dgcid=author
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 04, 2021, 09:10:38 AM
Arkansas Governor Regrets Banning Mask Mandates
Newsweek: “Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson (R) said he regrets signing a bill into law that bans state and local government authorities from implementing mask mandates amid a surge in COVID-19 cases in the state.”

“Hutchinson said now that cases are increasing in Arkansas, he wishes the ban ‘had not become law.’”

https://www.newsweek.com/arkansas-governor-hutchinson-regrets-signing-mask-ban-law-state-sees-delta-surge-1615904
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 04, 2021, 11:27:50 AM
Arkansas Governor Regrets Banning Mask Mandates
Newsweek: “Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson (R) said he regrets signing a bill into law that bans state and local government authorities from implementing mask mandates amid a surge in COVID-19 cases in the state.”

“Hutchinson said now that cases are increasing in Arkansas, he wishes the ban ‘had not become law.’”

https://www.newsweek.com/arkansas-governor-hutchinson-regrets-signing-mask-ban-law-state-sees-delta-surge-1615904

Sorry, but that doesn’t make him one of the good guys.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUBurrow on August 04, 2021, 11:55:27 AM
Arkansas Governor Regrets Banning Mask Mandates
Newsweek: “Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson (R) said he regrets signing a bill into law that bans state and local government authorities from implementing mask mandates amid a surge in COVID-19 cases in the state.”

“Hutchinson said now that cases are increasing in Arkansas, he wishes the ban ‘had not become law.’”

https://www.newsweek.com/arkansas-governor-hutchinson-regrets-signing-mask-ban-law-state-sees-delta-surge-1615904

Sowing remains undefeated vs. reaping.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 04, 2021, 12:15:42 PM
Sorry, but that doesn’t make him one of the good guys.
Asa occasionally has his clear-headed, rational moments. They tend to be quickly reversed however. He seems like a guy you could actually have a substantive policy discussion with, but he also knows his voters have no such interest.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 04, 2021, 12:48:57 PM
Asa occasionally has his clear-headed, rational moments. They tend to be quickly reversed however. He seems like a guy you could actually have a substantive policy discussion with, but he also knows his voters have no such interest.

He wishes the thing that became law because he sat down and signed "didn't become law."  ::)

"Well well well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions!"


Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 04, 2021, 02:14:06 PM
He wishes the thing that became law because he sat down and signed "didn't become law."  ::)

"Well well well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions!"
Yeah, he will occasionally do the decent thing, but he'll immediately follow it with doing 15 terrible things to stay in the good graces of the heehaws that keep him in office.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 04, 2021, 03:53:28 PM
Illinois' Governor announced mask mandates in public and private schools, preschool through 12th grade, for both teachers and students. Seems like common sense.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on August 04, 2021, 09:02:36 PM
Illinois' Governor announced mask mandates in public and private schools, preschool through 12th grade, for both teachers and students. Seems like common sense.

It is common sense, unless you’re in a Facebook parent group.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 05, 2021, 05:36:56 PM
Because of course he does.

Republican lawmaker Ralph Norman, who's suing Pelosi over a $500 fine for not wearing a mask during a floor vote, says he has Covid-19  (via AP)
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/1423369555775090688
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 06, 2021, 07:41:09 AM
It is common sense, unless you’re in a Facebook parent group.

Or governor of Florida.

Or congressman from NC:
 GOP Lawmaker Calls Mask Mandate ‘Child Abuse’

Rep. Madison Cawthorn (R-NC) spoke against a school mask mandate during a school board meeting, equating it to “psychological child abuse,” The Hill reports.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 06, 2021, 07:46:51 AM
It is common sense, unless you’re in a Facebook parent group.


This is so accurate, it is making me twitch.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 06, 2021, 11:14:31 AM
Or governor of Florida.

Or congressman from NC:
 GOP Lawmaker Calls Mask Mandate ‘Child Abuse’

Rep. Madison Cawthorn (R-NC) spoke against a school mask mandate during a school board meeting, equating it to “psychological child abuse,” The Hill reports.

It's fun to see that the "f*ck your feelings " crowd thinks they've raised children who are such snowflakes that wearing a mask in school does psychological damage.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 06, 2021, 11:37:17 AM
It's fun to see that the "f*ck your feelings " crowd thinks they've raised children who are such snowflakes that wearing a mask in school does psychological damage.



Not just the "f*ck your feelings" crowd, but the ones who claim that we have been too soft on our children.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 06, 2021, 11:57:37 AM
It's fun to see that the "f*ck your feelings " crowd thinks they've raised children who are such snowflakes that wearing a mask in school does psychological damage.

I had to reroute from a highway accident on my way to work this morning, and I almost barfed when I saw a homemade billboard with an awful picture of a 7 year with a mask on with verbiage stating "Let us breathe."
Puhhleezze. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 06, 2021, 12:09:14 PM
I had to reroute from a highway accident on my way to work this morning, and I almost barfed when I saw a homemade billboard with an awful picture of a 7 year with a mask on with verbiage stating "Let us breathe."
Puhhleezze.

i hope that's not supposed to be a play on last summer's unrest.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 06, 2021, 01:16:40 PM
i hope that's not supposed to be a play on last summer's unrest.

There's a reason their 'gotcha' sayings like "I can't breathe" or "My body my choice" are squarely aimed at denigrating BIPOC and women. White male supremacy is a core tenant of their belief system.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 06, 2021, 02:48:47 PM
i hope that's not supposed to be a play on last summer's unrest.

No it's one of those "Call our governor and tell him to unmask our kids this school year!" signs.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 06, 2021, 05:11:39 PM
Or governor of Florida.

Or congressman from NC:
 GOP Lawmaker Calls Mask Mandate ‘Child Abuse’

Rep. Madison Cawthorn (R-NC) spoke against a school mask mandate during a school board meeting, equating it to “psychological child abuse,” The Hill reports.

Yeah, I just saw this.

Another effen moron.

All competing to be loved by those who worship the previous president.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 06, 2021, 05:17:47 PM
Masks In school.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 06, 2021, 05:37:22 PM
Yeah, I just saw this.

Another effen moron.

All competing to be loved by those who worship the previous president.

At least he didn’t compare the mask mandates to Nazi Germany like a lot of them are doing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 06, 2021, 07:31:33 PM
At least he didn’t compare the mask mandates to Nazi Germany like a lot of them are doing.
Of course not. That's only because Cawthorn is quite pro-Nazi.

Republican Rep. Madison Cawthorn deletes swastika tweet after criticism, media questions
https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2021/07/12/swastika-tweet-deleted-after-posting-gop-rep-madison-cawthorn/7935989002/

"The American flag symbolizes unity, patriotism, independence, pride, and love for our country. BLM continues to expose their radical hatred of this country," tweeted Cawthorn, who represents North Carolina's far-western 11th District, including Asheville.

He linked to a July 8 New York Post story "BLM chapter calls American flag ‘symbol of hatred’ only used by racists."

The main image for the article — and the main one for his tweet — showed members of the National Socialist Movement in 2008 marching from the Washington Monument to the grounds of the United States Capitol Building. One man wears a shirt that says "skinhead" while he holds the hand of a boy with a shirt with a large swastika, the symbol of Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany during the World War II."

Young GOP Candidate, Madison Cawthorn, Vacationed At Hitler's Retreat
https://crooksandliars.com/2020/08/young-gop-candidate-madison-cawthorn
"Photos from his Instagram showed his glee at vacationing at Adolf Hitler's favorite retreat - Eagle's Nest in 2017. He also called Hitler by a term of reverence - "Führer.” Oh, and he also displays a flag that is often used by far-right extremists (aka Nazis) in his home."

(https://www.mediaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Screen-Shot-2020-08-11-at-11.28.49-AM.png)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 06, 2021, 11:53:31 PM
I forgot all about that, T.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: naginiF on August 07, 2021, 07:23:03 PM
Just got back to KC after 2+ weeks away.....stopped for last gas/sugar between Topeka and Lawrence and there was only one other person in the rest stop complex with a mask on. After unpacking we hit 3 carryout restaurants and the grocery store and there was 100% masking indoors.

This pandemic, and the last 5 years, have made me so appreciative of living in a metro core.

I forgot all about that, T.
Waiting for Arrow to pine in with "but both sides have extremes so please ignore it"
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 10, 2021, 09:15:28 AM
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, who is threatening to deny state funding for public schools that require masks, sends his kids to a private school in Tallahassee that ... wait for it ... requires masks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 10, 2021, 09:32:57 AM
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, who is threatening to deny state funding for public schools that require masks, sends his kids to a private school in Tallahassee that ... wait for it ... requires masks.



He is also now threatening to withhold pay from district administrators that defy his mask policy.  Which is likely not legal but whatever...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 10, 2021, 10:04:47 AM

He is also now threatening to withhold pay from district administrators that defy his mask policy.  Which is likely not legal but whatever...

That'll play great in the sticks, though.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 10, 2021, 10:16:24 AM
That'll play great in the sticks, though.

Again, DeSantis is actively, aggressively working against protecting his constituents from COVID-19.

Meanwhile, in other "I'm a governor who doesn't give a shyte about my constituents' health" news ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/09/us/dallas-school-masks-abbott.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210810&instance_id=37549&nl=the-morning&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=65833&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

The Dallas Independent School District said on Monday that everyone — students, employees and visitors — must wear a mask while on school property, starting Tuesday.

The mandate, which officials said was temporary, was imposed in defiance of an executive order by Gov. Greg Abbott that prohibits school districts from requiring masks.

The public school district, the second-largest in Texas according to its website, appears to be the first in the state to defy the order.


Good on Dallas.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on August 10, 2021, 10:39:21 AM
BURLINGTON — A group of anti-mask mandate parents are walking the hallways of Burlington High School, hunting for the school board that had just abruptly adjourned a meeting, when the crowd is stopped by police.

Two hours prior, Burlington citizens and parents filled the school’s auditorium for a school board meeting Monday night to speak out about what they believe the district’s mask policy should be for the upcoming school year amid a surge in COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations.


At the start of the meeting, School Board President Peter Turke reminded attendees on public comment policy.

“I'm responsible as the board president for running the meeting and I want to make sure things go smoothly and want to make sure everyone has a chance to be heard,” Turke said.

Things did not go smoothly.

Throughout the hour of public comment, Turke on several occasions asked the audience to quiet down so the board could hear speakers and so the meeting could flow smoothly from one speaker to the next.

Regardless, audience members continued to clap and cheer as parents — all of whom spoke in opposition to a mask requirement despite local health leaders saying mask mandates in schools will likely save lives — gave impassioned pleas for the board to not require masks to start the 2021-22 school year. Audience members often interrupted the very speaker they were cheering for.


“The masks, this is simple, silence you. And our kids have no voice. These kids come home to their families in tears, spilling out their guts. Parents felt hopeless. We’re not going to tolerate another year, please, of torture and abuse on our children to attend the public education system,” one speaker, Stacie Coleman, said.

The crowd grew more animated, and got louder and angrier as the minutes ticked on.

“Grow up and get a pair!” a man shouted at the board after being reprimanded for his public comment; he was met with shouts of support.

“We’re trying to have a civilized conversation,” Turke said before being interrupted by the same man, who yelled again: “We’re all trying to be civil here! We all have no masks on!”

The meeting devolved. Shouts overlapped one another. Communication failed.

A motion was made to suspend public comments as those gathered continued to yell. When board members Taylor Wishau and Marlo Brown said they wanted public comment to continue, they were met with cheers from the crowd. But Wishau’s and Brown’s five fellow board members overruled them, to the displeasure of the crowd.

Turke was unable to regain control.

He said, “I’d like to continue the meeting, but we can only do it if we have an organized—” He was then cut off by someone in the crowd, shouting interruptions. When he was able to briefly try and continue the meeting again, Turke said, “we cannot do so … if we have chaos. This is not working for us. We are at that point now.”

A man in the audience grabbed a standing microphone and yelled while pointing at Turke: “We are going to take over this board right now!”

While the board attempted to ask for the meeting to go on recess, many refused to leave and continued to shout at the board members. The board adjourned to a different meeting spot. Initially board members said they were moving to the school library, but when parents minutes later searched the halls, they found the library empty.

2 crazy meetings 9 months apart
Monday’s brouhaha was the second Burlington Area School District meeting to involve a police presence and school board members exiting the room while being shouted at by a crowd in nine months.

However, the makeup of the two crowds was drastically different.

On Nov. 9, 2020, pro-Black Lives Matter demonstrators shut down a meeting, expressing their disapproval of the board’s alleged slowness to implement anti-racism measures in the district.

After that day, the board wouldn’t meet in person again until summer 2021. In addition to COVID-19 concerns, the board had feared more unrest.

While their first few in-person meetings this year had been calmer, board members again faced duress Monday, this time from anti-mask mandate parents.



Some parents left, but dozens stayed.

Those who stayed decided to elect their own school board, claiming that the actual board breached public meeting law.

Choosing to allow Brown and Wishau to remain on their new board, the group held an impromptu election in the hallway where they elected one too many members, including Aaron Melby as “chairman.”

Under Wisconsin law, this “election” is by no means legal or binding.

Regardless, the “newly elected” board met in the high school's cafeteria, where public comment continued and adjourned when pressed by police at 9 p.m., but not before picking their next meeting date: Aug. 16.

Meanwhile, the official school board meeting resumed elsewhere in the building — not in the library. They moved through a few regular business items in less than six minutes while foregoing major agenda items such as the mask decision. Information that was to be discussed regarding Elementary and Secondary School Emergency Relief (ESSER) funding was also skipped, according to livestreamed video.

While Melby said he still has to look into whether there was legal standing for the board, he said he felt good about the outcome of the night.

“But,” Melby said to a reporter after the meeting, “if nothing else, if it’s legal or not, we made a statement tonight.”
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on August 10, 2021, 10:40:23 AM
BURLINGTON — A group of anti-mask mandate parents are walking the hallways of Burlington High School, hunting for the school board that had just abruptly adjourned a meeting, when the crowd is stopped by police.

Two hours prior, Burlington citizens and parents filled the school’s auditorium for a school board meeting Monday night to speak out about what they believe the district’s mask policy should be for the upcoming school year amid a surge in COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations.


At the start of the meeting, School Board President Peter Turke reminded attendees on public comment policy.

“I'm responsible as the board president for running the meeting and I want to make sure things go smoothly and want to make sure everyone has a chance to be heard,” Turke said.

Things did not go smoothly.

Throughout the hour of public comment, Turke on several occasions asked the audience to quiet down so the board could hear speakers and so the meeting could flow smoothly from one speaker to the next.

Regardless, audience members continued to clap and cheer as parents — all of whom spoke in opposition to a mask requirement despite local health leaders saying mask mandates in schools will likely save lives — gave impassioned pleas for the board to not require masks to start the 2021-22 school year. Audience members often interrupted the very speaker they were cheering for.


“The masks, this is simple, silence you. And our kids have no voice. These kids come home to their families in tears, spilling out their guts. Parents felt hopeless. We’re not going to tolerate another year, please, of torture and abuse on our children to attend the public education system,” one speaker, Stacie Coleman, said.

The crowd grew more animated, and got louder and angrier as the minutes ticked on.

“Grow up and get a pair!” a man shouted at the board after being reprimanded for his public comment; he was met with shouts of support.

“We’re trying to have a civilized conversation,” Turke said before being interrupted by the same man, who yelled again: “We’re all trying to be civil here! We all have no masks on!”

The meeting devolved. Shouts overlapped one another. Communication failed.

A motion was made to suspend public comments as those gathered continued to yell. When board members Taylor Wishau and Marlo Brown said they wanted public comment to continue, they were met with cheers from the crowd. But Wishau’s and Brown’s five fellow board members overruled them, to the displeasure of the crowd.

Turke was unable to regain control.

He said, “I’d like to continue the meeting, but we can only do it if we have an organized—” He was then cut off by someone in the crowd, shouting interruptions. When he was able to briefly try and continue the meeting again, Turke said, “we cannot do so … if we have chaos. This is not working for us. We are at that point now.”

A man in the audience grabbed a standing microphone and yelled while pointing at Turke: “We are going to take over this board right now!”

While the board attempted to ask for the meeting to go on recess, many refused to leave and continued to shout at the board members. The board adjourned to a different meeting spot. Initially board members said they were moving to the school library, but when parents minutes later searched the halls, they found the library empty.

2 crazy meetings 9 months apart
Monday’s brouhaha was the second Burlington Area School District meeting to involve a police presence and school board members exiting the room while being shouted at by a crowd in nine months.

However, the makeup of the two crowds was drastically different.

On Nov. 9, 2020, pro-Black Lives Matter demonstrators shut down a meeting, expressing their disapproval of the board’s alleged slowness to implement anti-racism measures in the district.

After that day, the board wouldn’t meet in person again until summer 2021. In addition to COVID-19 concerns, the board had feared more unrest.

While their first few in-person meetings this year had been calmer, board members again faced duress Monday, this time from anti-mask mandate parents.



Some parents left, but dozens stayed.

Those who stayed decided to elect their own school board, claiming that the actual board breached public meeting law.

Choosing to allow Brown and Wishau to remain on their new board, the group held an impromptu election in the hallway where they elected one too many members, including Aaron Melby as “chairman.”

Under Wisconsin law, this “election” is by no means legal or binding.

Regardless, the “newly elected” board met in the high school's cafeteria, where public comment continued and adjourned when pressed by police at 9 p.m., but not before picking their next meeting date: Aug. 16.

Meanwhile, the official school board meeting resumed elsewhere in the building — not in the library. They moved through a few regular business items in less than six minutes while foregoing major agenda items such as the mask decision. Information that was to be discussed regarding Elementary and Secondary School Emergency Relief (ESSER) funding was also skipped, according to livestreamed video.

While Melby said he still has to look into whether there was legal standing for the board, he said he felt good about the outcome of the night.

“But,” Melby said to a reporter after the meeting, “if nothing else, if it’s legal or not, we made a statement tonight.”

School board insurrections now.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on August 10, 2021, 10:54:55 AM
Aren't the people who are anti-mask, also the ones normally screaming snowflake?

If your kids can't wear a simple mask in school, without coming home in tears, spilling out their guts...they might be a snowflake.

If you are a grown adult who completely looses their crap, over having to wear a mask in public...you might be a snowflake.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 10, 2021, 10:58:44 AM
Under Wisconsin law, this “election” is by no means legal or binding.

Funny that the reporter thought it necessary to include this line.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 10, 2021, 11:00:58 AM
That's just so f*cking insane.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on August 10, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
I have to think kids watching their parents breathlessly argue against a mask to protect them in school has a more negative longterm effect on them than the mask will. Not to mention the risk of getting the virus.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 10, 2021, 11:35:54 AM
I have to think kids watching their parents breathlessly argue against a mask to protect them in school has a more negative longterm effect on them than the mask will. Not to mention the risk of getting the virus.


I have mentioned this before, but we have multiple students asking us if we still provide vaccinations (we do), and want to make sure their parents won't find out.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 10, 2021, 11:44:20 AM
BURLINGTON — A group of anti-mask mandate parents are walking the hallways of Burlington High School, hunting for the school board that had just abruptly adjourned a meeting, when the crowd is stopped by police.

Two hours prior, Burlington citizens and parents filled the school’s auditorium for a school board meeting Monday night to speak out about what they believe the district’s mask policy should be for the upcoming school year amid a surge in COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations.


At the start of the meeting, School Board President Peter Turke reminded attendees on public comment policy.

“I'm responsible as the board president for running the meeting and I want to make sure things go smoothly and want to make sure everyone has a chance to be heard,” Turke said.

Things did not go smoothly.

Throughout the hour of public comment, Turke on several occasions asked the audience to quiet down so the board could hear speakers and so the meeting could flow smoothly from one speaker to the next.

Regardless, audience members continued to clap and cheer as parents — all of whom spoke in opposition to a mask requirement despite local health leaders saying mask mandates in schools will likely save lives — gave impassioned pleas for the board to not require masks to start the 2021-22 school year. Audience members often interrupted the very speaker they were cheering for.


“The masks, this is simple, silence you. And our kids have no voice. These kids come home to their families in tears, spilling out their guts. Parents felt hopeless. We’re not going to tolerate another year, please, of torture and abuse on our children to attend the public education system,” one speaker, Stacie Coleman, said.

The crowd grew more animated, and got louder and angrier as the minutes ticked on.

“Grow up and get a pair!” a man shouted at the board after being reprimanded for his public comment; he was met with shouts of support.

“We’re trying to have a civilized conversation,” Turke said before being interrupted by the same man, who yelled again: “We’re all trying to be civil here! We all have no masks on!”

The meeting devolved. Shouts overlapped one another. Communication failed.

A motion was made to suspend public comments as those gathered continued to yell. When board members Taylor Wishau and Marlo Brown said they wanted public comment to continue, they were met with cheers from the crowd. But Wishau’s and Brown’s five fellow board members overruled them, to the displeasure of the crowd.

Turke was unable to regain control.

He said, “I’d like to continue the meeting, but we can only do it if we have an organized—” He was then cut off by someone in the crowd, shouting interruptions. When he was able to briefly try and continue the meeting again, Turke said, “we cannot do so … if we have chaos. This is not working for us. We are at that point now.”

A man in the audience grabbed a standing microphone and yelled while pointing at Turke: “We are going to take over this board right now!”

While the board attempted to ask for the meeting to go on recess, many refused to leave and continued to shout at the board members. The board adjourned to a different meeting spot. Initially board members said they were moving to the school library, but when parents minutes later searched the halls, they found the library empty.

2 crazy meetings 9 months apart
Monday’s brouhaha was the second Burlington Area School District meeting to involve a police presence and school board members exiting the room while being shouted at by a crowd in nine months.

However, the makeup of the two crowds was drastically different.

On Nov. 9, 2020, pro-Black Lives Matter demonstrators shut down a meeting, expressing their disapproval of the board’s alleged slowness to implement anti-racism measures in the district.

After that day, the board wouldn’t meet in person again until summer 2021. In addition to COVID-19 concerns, the board had feared more unrest.

While their first few in-person meetings this year had been calmer, board members again faced duress Monday, this time from anti-mask mandate parents.



Some parents left, but dozens stayed.

Those who stayed decided to elect their own school board, claiming that the actual board breached public meeting law.

Choosing to allow Brown and Wishau to remain on their new board, the group held an impromptu election in the hallway where they elected one too many members, including Aaron Melby as “chairman.”

Under Wisconsin law, this “election” is by no means legal or binding.

Regardless, the “newly elected” board met in the high school's cafeteria, where public comment continued and adjourned when pressed by police at 9 p.m., but not before picking their next meeting date: Aug. 16.

Meanwhile, the official school board meeting resumed elsewhere in the building — not in the library. They moved through a few regular business items in less than six minutes while foregoing major agenda items such as the mask decision. Information that was to be discussed regarding Elementary and Secondary School Emergency Relief (ESSER) funding was also skipped, according to livestreamed video.

While Melby said he still has to look into whether there was legal standing for the board, he said he felt good about the outcome of the night.

“But,” Melby said to a reporter after the meeting, “if nothing else, if it’s legal or not, we made a statement tonight.”

Sounds like a Madison school board meeting.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 10, 2021, 11:44:58 AM
I have to think kids watching their parents breathlessly argue against a mask to protect them in school has a more negative longterm effect on them than the mask will. Not to mention the risk of getting the virus.

Superb point.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 10, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
I have to think kids watching their parents breathlessly argue against a mask to protect them in school has a more negative longterm effect on them than the mask will. Not to mention the risk of getting the virus.

They've turned "Parents embarrassing their kids in public" up to 11.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 10, 2021, 06:25:28 PM
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, who is threatening to deny state funding for public schools that require masks, sends his kids to a private school in Tallahassee that ... wait for it ... requires masks.

New reports indicate DeSantis kids no longer attend this school. Mea culpa.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 11, 2021, 01:06:20 PM
The phrase "ignorant hillbillies" came to mind while watching the video. Doctors and nurses being threatened for trying to keep kids safe.

https://crooksandliars.com/2021/08/anti-maskers-terrorize-medical
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUBurrow on August 11, 2021, 01:37:09 PM
The phrase "ignorant hillbillies" came to mind while watching the video. Doctors and nurses being threatened for trying to keep kids safe.

https://crooksandliars.com/2021/08/anti-maskers-terrorize-medical

You're posting links from a website called crooksandliars.com.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 11, 2021, 01:47:02 PM
You're posting links from a website called crooksandliars.com.

Your point?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 11, 2021, 01:59:34 PM
You're posting links from a website called crooksandliars.com.

If it matters, here's the same report from the Nashville Tennessean, as well as the video from the reporter who recorded it.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/williamson/2021/08/10/williamson-county-schools-board-meeting-covid-19-protocols-live/5540109001/

https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/1425449438202548224

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on August 11, 2021, 02:01:54 PM
If it matters, here's the same report from the Nashville Tennessean, as well as the video from the reporter who recorded it.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/williamson/2021/08/10/williamson-county-schools-board-meeting-covid-19-protocols-live/5540109001/

https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/1425449438202548224



Guys, it's cool Jay Cutler is going to run for school board.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 11, 2021, 02:34:15 PM
Guys, it's cool Jay Cutler is going to run for school board.

Yeah, but if he gets a paper cut, that’s at least 6 weeks of meetings he will miss.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on August 11, 2021, 02:42:36 PM
Guys, it's cool Jay Cutler is going to run for school board.

I’m sure his, “Guys, smoking makes you look REALLY cool,” campaign will go really well.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 11, 2021, 02:51:10 PM
Guys, it's cool Jay Cutler is going to run for school board.

Roll call ...

"Mr. Smith?"
"Aye"
"Mrs. Jones?"
"Nay"
"Mr. Cutler?"
"Don't care"
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 11, 2021, 02:58:33 PM
Good lord I just watched the video from Tennessee.
They’ll be lucky if those health care workers don’t just get fed up and quit.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on August 11, 2021, 03:00:55 PM
Roll call ...

"Mr. Smith?"
"Aye"
"Mrs. Jones?"
"Nay"
"Mr. Cutler?"
"Don't care"

My whole family lives in Williamson County. There are already tons of celebrities who live there. They won't be impressed with his star power enough to vote for him.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUBurrow on August 11, 2021, 03:21:33 PM
Your point?

We have met the enemy and they are ours.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 11, 2021, 03:30:09 PM
Good lord I just watched the video from Tennessee.
They’ll be lucky if those health care workers don’t just get fed up and quit.

Can you imagine being a health-care worker who literally has put his or her life on the line for a year and a half now ... and that's the kind of shyte you have to go through now in your own community?

I'd say I was stunned ... but how can we be stunned by anything anymore?

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 11, 2021, 04:41:51 PM
Do the anti-maskers think they are helping their cause by actions like that? But that’s not the point, I guess.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 11, 2021, 04:44:38 PM
Half of the people in the world have below average IQ's.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 11, 2021, 06:22:50 PM
Half of the people in the world have below average IQ's.

Channeling your inner George Carlin?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on August 11, 2021, 07:34:01 PM
If it matters, here's the same report from the Nashville Tennessean, as well as the video from the reporter who recorded it.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/williamson/2021/08/10/williamson-county-schools-board-meeting-covid-19-protocols-live/5540109001/

https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/1425449438202548224

Hogs everywhere
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 11, 2021, 08:21:16 PM
more and more studies("the science") are coming out about kids and masks while our own CDC is saying the opposite.   

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/children-should-not-be-forced-to-wear-masks-due-to-co2-levels-new-study-suggests/ar-AALFKTk

https://www.wsj.com/articles/masks-children-parenting-schools-mandates-covid-19-coronavirus-pandemic-biden-administration-cdc-11628432716
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 11, 2021, 08:24:58 PM
Half of the people in the world have below average IQ's.

Just to be pedantic, half the people have below median IQs…. ;D
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 11, 2021, 08:34:39 PM
more and more studies("the science") are coming out about kids and masks while our own CDC is saying the opposite.   

These are two opinion articles not “the science”.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 11, 2021, 08:34:49 PM
more and more studies("the science") are coming out about kids and masks while our own CDC is saying the opposite.   

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/children-should-not-be-forced-to-wear-masks-due-to-co2-levels-new-study-suggests/ar-AALFKTk

https://www.wsj.com/articles/masks-children-parenting-schools-mandates-covid-19-coronavirus-pandemic-biden-administration-cdc-11628432716

The first link “suggests” and isn’t conclusive.  The second link is an opinion piece.  Are you really a dentist?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on August 11, 2021, 08:37:16 PM
more and more studies("the science") are coming out about kids and masks while our own CDC is saying the opposite.   

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/children-should-not-be-forced-to-wear-masks-due-to-co2-levels-new-study-suggests/ar-AALFKTk

https://www.wsj.com/articles/masks-children-parenting-schools-mandates-covid-19-coronavirus-pandemic-biden-administration-cdc-11628432716

You mean the CO2 based study that had to be retracted due to faulty research?

Here is the link to the actual paper. Note the retractions across the entire paper.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2781743
 (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2781743)
Yeah, no.

And a opinion piece indicating talking about how dirty masks can harbor bacteria, and fungi. Then don't wear dirty masks. That's like saying pants and underwear are bad and making a kid wear them is child abuse, because if you don't wash or change them, it can lead to skin infections. Just plain stupid.

Do you know what is bad for children's health...COVID. People need to wear a damn mask.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on August 11, 2021, 08:42:44 PM
You mean the CO2 based study that had to be retracted due to faulty research?

Here is the link to the actual paper. Note the retractions across the entire paper.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2781743
 (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2781743)
Yeah, no.

And a opinion piece indicating talking about how dirty masks can harbor bacteria, and fungi. Then don't wear dirty masks. That's like saying pants and underwear are bad and making a kid wear them is child abuse, because if you don't wash or change them, it can lead to skin infections. Just plain stupid.

Do you know what is bad for children's health...COVID. People need to wear a damn mask.

laughing.gif
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 11, 2021, 08:56:43 PM
Just to be pedantic, half the people have below median IQs…. ;D
If i was smarter i would know that.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 11, 2021, 09:02:20 PM
The first link “suggests” and isn’t conclusive.  The second link is an opinion piece.  Are you really a dentist?
Healthcare "professional". Who of course will never admit that his facts were once again wrong.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 11, 2021, 10:31:04 PM
Entertaining.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 12, 2021, 06:26:55 AM
Ronald Reagan said that the most terrifying words in the English language were "I'm from the government and I am here to help."   

Those have been replaced by "I read it on my facebook group that"...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 12, 2021, 10:46:18 AM
Ronald Reagan said that the most terrifying words in the English language were "I'm from the government and I am here to help."   

Those have been replaced by "I read it on my facebook group that"...

Bit off topic but this thread is worthy of some levity...I was at my sister in law's house in NJ for a long weekend to celebrate my mother in law's birthday back in June.  It was in the immediate aftermath of the apartment collapse in Miami.  My wife's maternal side of the family is Jewish, her sister in law is married to an Israeli guy and they are pretty plugged into the Jewish community in NY/NJ, so they were obviously following the stories closely cause at the time it was reported there was a significant amount of tri-state Jewish residents who had apartments there.

Well my mother in law is reading on her phone and goes "oh wow, turns out John McAfee had a condo in that building!"  Mind you his death and the apartment collapse were within 24 hours of each other.  So I immediately react with shock and intrigue, ask her to show me the article...and she hands me the phone to reveal a FB post with nothing substantial behind it other than some pictures and diagrams and a dumpster fire of a comment thread below it.  The person who posted it had a headline banner picture that had some nonsense like "Seeker of the Truth" in it. 

I told her, with all due respect, don't show me any news from FB ever again...while my wife's sister taunted her from the kitchen saying "YOU'RE EMBARRASSING OUR BLOODLINE MOM".
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 12, 2021, 12:55:15 PM
Bit off topic but this thread is worthy of some levity...I was at my sister in law's house in NJ for a long weekend to celebrate my mother in law's birthday back in June.  It was in the immediate aftermath of the apartment collapse in Miami.  My wife's maternal side of the family is Jewish, her sister in law is married to an Israeli guy and they are pretty plugged into the Jewish community in NY/NJ, so they were obviously following the stories closely cause at the time it was reported there was a significant amount of tri-state Jewish residents who had apartments there.

Well my mother in law is reading on her phone and goes "oh wow, turns out John McAfee had a condo in that building!"  Mind you his death and the apartment collapse were within 24 hours of each other.  So I immediately react with shock and intrigue, ask her to show me the article...and she hands me the phone to reveal a FB post with nothing substantial behind it other than some pictures and diagrams and a dumpster fire of a comment thread below it.  The person who posted it had a headline banner picture that had some nonsense like "Seeker of the Truth" in it. 

I told her, with all due respect, don't show me any news from FB ever again...while my wife's sister taunted her from the kitchen saying "YOU'RE EMBARRASSING OUR BLOODLINE MOM".

Epstein didn't kill himself (there).
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 12, 2021, 01:24:22 PM
Since we're on to online misinformation ... QAnon strikes again, tragically.

A Santa Barbara father suspected of killing his two children in Mexico told the FBI he was a QAnon adherent and had to kill them because they had been infected with serpent DNA and he was saving the world from monsters, according to a criminal complaint filed in Los Angeles federal court Wednesday.


https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-11/coleman-charged-mexico-killings-qanon
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 12, 2021, 01:38:48 PM
Since we're on to online misinformation ... QAnon strikes again, tragically.

A Santa Barbara father suspected of killing his two children in Mexico told the FBI he was a QAnon adherent and had to kill them because they had been infected with serpent DNA and he was saving the world from monsters, according to a criminal complaint filed in Los Angeles federal court Wednesday.


https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-11/coleman-charged-mexico-killings-qanon

A killer cult with millions of adherents, including some so warped they'd kill their own children. What an effed-up time in America.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 12, 2021, 02:01:16 PM
A killer cult with millions of adherents, including some so warped they'd kill their own children. What an effed-up time in America.

100 years of planned parenthood, hey.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on August 12, 2021, 02:31:36 PM
100 years of planned parenthood, hey.

I'll admit, I honestly don't get the impulse when faced with something that is unequivocally bad to point at something else and say "but that thing is bad too." It's baffling. Many things can be bad simultaneously. The fact that many things are bad does not absolve any one of those bad things of being bad.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 12, 2021, 02:33:19 PM
I'll admit, I honestly don't get the impulse when faced with something that is unequivocally bad to point at something else and say "but that thing is bad too." It's baffling. Many things can be bad simultaneously. The fact that many things are bad does not absolve any one of those bad things of being bad.


It's just a way to deflect rather than address the actual topic.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on August 12, 2021, 02:37:43 PM
100 years of planned parenthood, hey.

Good for lower crime rates.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on August 12, 2021, 02:38:42 PM
Bit off topic but this thread is worthy of some levity...I was at my sister in law's house in NJ for a long weekend to celebrate my mother in law's birthday back in June.  It was in the immediate aftermath of the apartment collapse in Miami.  My wife's maternal side of the family is Jewish, her sister in law is married to an Israeli guy and they are pretty plugged into the Jewish community in NY/NJ, so they were obviously following the stories closely cause at the time it was reported there was a significant amount of tri-state Jewish residents who had apartments there.

Well my mother in law is reading on her phone and goes "oh wow, turns out John McAfee had a condo in that building!"  Mind you his death and the apartment collapse were within 24 hours of each other.  So I immediately react with shock and intrigue, ask her to show me the article...and she hands me the phone to reveal a FB post with nothing substantial behind it other than some pictures and diagrams and a dumpster fire of a comment thread below it.  The person who posted it had a headline banner picture that had some nonsense like "Seeker of the Truth" in it. 

I told her, with all due respect, don't show me any news from FB ever again...while my wife's sister taunted her from the kitchen saying "YOU'RE EMBARRASSING OUR BLOODLINE MOM".

I always chuckle at the idea that the same generation that used to say "Don't trust the internet for research for your school projects" now believes everything they read on social media.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on August 12, 2021, 02:45:47 PM

It's just a way to deflect rather than address the actual topic.

I mean I *know* that, but I don't really *get* that. Like do people realize they're deflecting? Is it an unconscious reflex like a defense mechanism or impulse to resolve cognitive dissonance that never registers to the person? Or is it just cold Machiavellian manipulation effort? Do people think it works or is helpful?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 12, 2021, 02:47:16 PM
100 years of planned parenthood, hey.

Yeah, who will ever forget that march to the Capitol where the Planned Parenthood supporters tried to subvert democracy, injured 100+ cops, and threatened to hang the vice president? That was awful!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 12, 2021, 03:24:30 PM
I'll admit, I honestly don't get the impulse when faced with something that is unequivocally bad to point at something else and say "but that thing is bad too." It's baffling. Many things can be bad simultaneously. The fact that many things are bad does not absolve any one of those bad things of being bad.

You guys need to stop taking every single thing posted on here so literally and seriously.

Nads made an open ended comment, and I made a (true) crack.  That's it. 

Lighten up, the hypertension is gonna give some of you mofos a gripper.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 12, 2021, 03:41:35 PM
A killer cult with MILLIONS?? of adherents, including some so warped they'd kill their own children. What an effed-up time in America.

  i hope you were kidding.  you guys love to use this "group" as a false narrative to justify the existence "domestic terrorism" as anything you are against.  might as well throw in some racism while you're at it.  this qanon thing isn't even a pimple on the fat lady's arse of conventional thinking.  most rational people see this and run from it faster than a jeffrey toobin zoom meeting
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on August 12, 2021, 03:43:05 PM
I mean I *know* that, but I don't really *get* that. Like do people realize they're deflecting? Is it an unconscious reflex like a defense mechanism or impulse to resolve cognitive dissonance that never registers to the person? Or is it just cold Machiavellian manipulation effort? Do people think it works or is helpful?

It's manipulation.

And then, as he just demonstrated, it results in gaslighting.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 12, 2021, 03:52:00 PM
  i hope you were kidding.  you guys love to use this "group" as a false narrative to justify the existence "domestic terrorism" as anything you are against.  might as well throw in some racism while you're at it.  this qanon thing isn't even a pimple on the fat lady's arse of conventional thinking.  most rational people see this and run from it faster than a jeffrey toobin zoom meeting

I'll just leave this here ...

Fifteen percent of Americans agree with the central false tenet of the QAnon conspiracy theory: that the government and other entities are controlled by Satan-worshipping pedophiles running a child sex trafficking ring, according to a new poll.
Among Republicans the survey, released Wednesday by the Public Religion Research Institute, found that 23 percent of respondents agreed with the statement that “the government, media and financial worlds in the U.S. are controlled by a group of Satan-worshipping pedophiles who run a global child sex trafficking operation.”


https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/555699-15-percent-of-americans-believe-central-qanon-theory-poll
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 12, 2021, 03:59:36 PM
And the venn diagram with them and anti-vaxxers and believers of the big lie is remarkable.   15% of the population is 50 million.  So, yes, millions.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 12, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
A large percentage of Americans are delusional.
(https://scontent.fmia1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/237134813_10158708793822804_3640614525135569804_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=yrFmkyti3qoAX_ty9MC&_nc_ht=scontent.fmia1-2.fna&oh=9c23af0782c2172a1f956c63e0ab2d9d&oe=611AD3A6)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 12, 2021, 04:37:30 PM
Curling, I get.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 12, 2021, 04:46:28 PM
Curling, I get.

Well, not to brag, but in college I hit the gym with stunning regularity.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 12, 2021, 05:03:09 PM
A large percentage of Americans are delusional.
(https://scontent.fmia1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/237134813_10158708793822804_3640614525135569804_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=yrFmkyti3qoAX_ty9MC&_nc_ht=scontent.fmia1-2.fna&oh=9c23af0782c2172a1f956c63e0ab2d9d&oe=611AD3A6)

Wow. We really are a nation of idiots.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 12, 2021, 05:27:50 PM
Golf is an Olympic sport, so, yeah, 40 percent of Americans are fit enough to be an Olympic athlete.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on August 12, 2021, 05:33:18 PM
Golf is an Olympic sport, so, yeah, 40 percent of Americans are fit enough to be an Olympic athlete.

75% of Americans also take a cart, so that’s takes a lot of people out of the equation.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 12, 2021, 07:00:18 PM
  i hope you were kidding.  you guys love to use this "group" as a false narrative to justify the existence "domestic terrorism" as anything you are against.  might as well throw in some racism while you're at it.  this qanon thing isn't even a pimple on the fat lady's arse of conventional thinking.  most rational people see this and run from it faster than a jeffrey toobin zoom meeting


At the Capitol, there were only thousands of treasonous Trump terrorists attacking police officers and waging war against the United States on behalf of their deposed king. But yes, there are millions of Americans who follow QAnon's batshyte crud, and they've even infiltrated the House of Representatives with Whack Job No. 1.

From the NYT:

QAnon, an outlandish and ever-evolving conspiracy theory spread by some of Mr. Trump’s most ardent followers, has significant traction with a segment of the public — particularly Republicans and Americans who consume news from far-right sources.

Those are the findings of a poll released today by the Public Religion Research Institute and the Interfaith Youth Core, which found that 15 percent of Americans say they think that the levers of power are controlled by a cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles, a core belief of QAnon supporters. The same share said it was true that “American patriots may have to resort to violence” to depose the pedophiles and restore the country’s rightful order.

And fully 20 percent of respondents said that they thought a biblical-scale storm would soon sweep away these evil elites and “restore the rightful leaders.”

“These are words I never thought I would write into a poll question, or have the need to, but here we are,” Robby Jones, the founder of P.R.R.I., said in an interview.

The teams behind the poll determined that 14 percent of Americans fall into the category of “QAnon believers,” composed of those who agreed with the statements in all three questions. Among Republicans only, that rises to roughly one in four. (Twelve percent of independents and 7 percent of Democrats were categorized as QAnon believers.)

But the analysts went a level further: They created a category labeled “QAnon doubters” to include respondents who had said they “mostly disagreed” with the outlandish statements, but didn’t reject them outright. Another 55 percent of Republicans fell into this more ambivalent category.

Which means that just one in five Republicans fully rejected the premises of the QAnon conspiracy theory. For Democrats, 58 percent were flat-out QAnon rejecters.

Mr. Jones said he was struck by the prevalence of QAnon’s adherents. Overlaying the share of poll respondents who expressed belief in its core principles over the country’s total population, “that’s more than 30 million people,” he said.

“Thinking about QAnon, if it were a religion, it would be as big as all white evangelical Protestants, or all white mainline Protestants,” he added. “So it lines up there with a major religious group.”


But yes, Tucker Carlson defends QAnon. A lot. So how bad could they be, right?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 12, 2021, 07:21:23 PM
Honestly, that survey or study sounds like it was poorly worded.  Thats not defending QAnon or its loyal followers, but if nearly 40% of Democrats supported the premise in some way, thats not super convincing. 

Does "not fully rejecting" mean you'd respond yes to "i believe there are pedophiles or sex traffickers in positions of power in the US Government"?  I don't know, but as absurd as QAnon is at a top level and being a politically driven cult of the far right, you'd think less than 2 out of 5 Democrats would support it in any way.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on August 12, 2021, 07:24:41 PM
Wow. We really are a nation of idiots.

Depends on what country anyou are competing for and which event.

My time in the 100 meter freestyle isn't that far off from the woman who came in last place, and I am old and out of shape.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 12, 2021, 07:28:03 PM
  i hope you were kidding.  you guys love to use this "group" as a false narrative to justify the existence "domestic terrorism" as anything you are against.  might as well throw in some racism while you're at it.  this qanon thing isn't even a pimple on the fat lady's arse of conventional thinking.  most rational people see this and run from it faster than a jeffrey toobin zoom meeting
30% of Republicans report believing in part or all of the Q crap. So, while *you* may not be a Qer, it doesn't mean a huge swath of Republics aren't.

And the person with the racist screen name doesn't want people to point out racism...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 12, 2021, 07:37:38 PM
Honestly, that survey or study sounds like it was poorly worded.  Thats not defending QAnon or its loyal followers, but if nearly 40% of Democrats supported the premise in some way, thats not super convincing. 

Does "not fully rejecting" mean you'd respond yes to "i believe there are pedophiles or sex traffickers in positions of power in the US Government"?  I don't know, but as absurd as QAnon is at a top level and being a politically driven cult of the far right, you'd think less than 2 out of 5 Democrats would support it in any way.

I also was flabbergasted by the number of Independents and Dems who supposedly believe in Q's idiocy.

But I have little doubt that there are multiple millions -- as in more than 1.999M -- of Americans lapping up what Q is serving. Do you think that's wrong, Wags?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 12, 2021, 07:50:03 PM
Writing questions for surveys is an art form.

With bad surveys, sometimes it is on purpose to aim for a specific result; sometimes it is unqualified people writing the survey questions. When I see results like these, I just chalk it up to one of those two things.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 12, 2021, 08:08:38 PM
30% of Republicans report believing in part or all of the Q crap. So, while *you* may not be a Qer, it doesn't mean a huge swath of Republics aren't.

And the person with the racist screen name doesn't want people to point out racism...

tell me what's racist about my screen name-nice try

show me where the hell you pulled the 30% from old t-man!  that's a steaming pile of bull chit.  you're saying approximately 20-25 million or more believe in all or part???  no f"ing way!  i had never heard of them until a year ago and i thought it was outer limits then.   just stop with the crap

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 12, 2021, 08:15:56 PM
Honestly, that survey or study sounds like it was poorly worded.  Thats not defending QAnon or its loyal followers, but if nearly 40% of Democrats supported the premise in some way, thats not super convincing. 

Does "not fully rejecting" mean you'd respond yes to "i believe there are pedophiles or sex traffickers in positions of power in the US Government"?  I don't know, but as absurd as QAnon is at a top level and being a politically driven cult of the far right, you'd think less than 2 out of 5 Democrats would support it in any way.

That's fair, but other polls have shown alarming - not just as alarming - numbers.
Like this one showing that 36% of Republican men have a favorable opinion of QAnon.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/10/23/what-do-americans-make-qanon

Or this one showing that half of Trump supporters believe Democrats are engaged in child sex trafficking. And 7 percent of people overall (and 15 percent of Trump supporters) believe QAnon is true.
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/10/20/half-trump-supporters-believe-qanon-theory-child-s

Or this one showing that 15% of respondents believe "the government, media, and financial worlds in the U.S. are controlled by a group of Satan-worshipping pedophiles who run a global child sex trafficking operation.”

https://www.prri.org/research/qanon-conspiracy-american-politics-report/

Regardless of the exact figure, can we agree that there's a scary number of Americans who believe that nonsense and it's not merely a "pimple on the fat lady's arse," as rocket so eloquently put it?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 12, 2021, 09:01:03 PM

At the Capitol, there were only thousands of treasonous Trump terrorists attacking police officers and waging war against the United States on behalf of their deposed king. But yes, there are millions of Americans who follow QAnon's batshyte crud, and they've even infiltrated the House of Representatives with Whack Job No. 1.

From the NYT:

QAnon, an outlandish and ever-evolving conspiracy theory spread by some of Mr. Trump’s most ardent followers, has significant traction with a segment of the public — particularly Republicans and Americans who consume news from far-right sources.

Those are the findings of a poll released today by the Public Religion Research Institute and the Interfaith Youth Core, which found that 15 percent of Americans say they think that the levers of power are controlled by a cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles, a core belief of QAnon supporters. The same share said it was true that “American patriots may have to resort to violence” to depose the pedophiles and restore the country’s rightful order.

And fully 20 percent of respondents said that they thought a biblical-scale storm would soon sweep away these evil elites and “restore the rightful leaders.”

“These are words I never thought I would write into a poll question, or have the need to, but here we are,” Robby Jones, the founder of P.R.R.I., said in an interview.

The teams behind the poll determined that 14 percent of Americans fall into the category of “QAnon believers,” composed of those who agreed with the statements in all three questions. Among Republicans only, that rises to roughly one in four. (Twelve percent of independents and 7 percent of Democrats were categorized as QAnon believers.)

But the analysts went a level further: They created a category labeled “QAnon doubters” to include respondents who had said they “mostly disagreed” with the outlandish statements, but didn’t reject them outright. Another 55 percent of Republicans fell into this more ambivalent category.

Which means that just one in five Republicans fully rejected the premises of the QAnon conspiracy theory. For Democrats, 58 percent were flat-out QAnon rejecters.

Mr. Jones said he was struck by the prevalence of QAnon’s adherents. Overlaying the share of poll respondents who expressed belief in its core principles over the country’s total population, “that’s more than 30 million people,” he said.

“Thinking about QAnon, if it were a religion, it would be as big as all white evangelical Protestants, or all white mainline Protestants,” he added. “So it lines up there with a major religious group.”


But yes, Tucker Carlson defends QAnon. A lot. So how bad could they be, right?

i won't even use the ny times for tp.  that paper is a pos and has lost most/all of its credibility.  until you acknowledge the burning down of police precincts and all of the other violence that cost people their lives and their businesses during the "peaceful" protests -have a good night

you must watch a lot of tucker carlson-i'm proud of you.  i like him a lot and i don't remember him wasting much time on his show about them

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 12, 2021, 09:11:02 PM
tell me what's racist about my screen name-nice try

It has been explained to you time and time again why your screen name is racist. Your head is so far up your rectum that I really don't think another explanation will be useful, do you?

show me where the hell you pulled the 30% from old t-man!  that's a steaming pile of bull chit.  you're saying approximately 20-25 million or more believe in all or part???  no f"ing way!  i had never heard of them until a year ago and i thought it was outer limits then.   just stop with the crap

Here you go:
30% of Republicans have 'favorable' view of QAnon conspiracy theory, YouGov poll finds
https://www.businessinsider.com/30-of-republicans-have-favorable-view-of-qanon-conspiracy-theory-poll-2021-1

Not that you'll ever acknowledge facts you don't like, but there you  go.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 12, 2021, 09:29:00 PM
Depends on what country anyou are competing for and which event.

My time in the 100 meter freestyle isn't that far off from the woman who came in last place, and I am old and out of shape.

During on Winter Olympics long ago, there was a downhill skier from some small warm weather country, essentially snow plowing down the mountain. I aspired to move to a country like that and become an Olympic athlete. Then Eddie the Eagle came along and forced them to set standards.  >:( >:(
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 12, 2021, 10:20:24 PM
That's fair, but other polls have shown alarming - not just as alarming - numbers.
Like this one showing that 36% of Republican men have a favorable opinion of QAnon.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/10/23/what-do-americans-make-qanon

Or this one showing that half of Trump supporters believe Democrats are engaged in child sex trafficking. And 7 percent of people overall (and 15 percent of Trump supporters) believe QAnon is true.
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/10/20/half-trump-supporters-believe-qanon-theory-child-s

Or this one showing that 15% of respondents believe "the government, media, and financial worlds in the U.S. are controlled by a group of Satan-worshipping pedophiles who run a global child sex trafficking operation.”

https://www.prri.org/research/qanon-conspiracy-american-politics-report/

Regardless of the exact figure, can we agree that there's a scary number of Americans who believe that nonsense and it's not merely a "pimple on the fat lady's arse," as rocket so eloquently put it?

Oh I wasn't meaning it to say it wasn't a significant issue.  I think that 20-30% range of GOP supporters range is probably close, and disturbingly high as it is.  Just commenting how wildly out of whack those numbers seemed, across the board.  But as Jockey said, it was likely done with intent
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 12, 2021, 10:22:56 PM
i won't even use the ny times for tp.  that paper is a pos and has lost most/all of its credibility.  until you acknowledge the burning down of police precincts and all of the other violence that cost people their lives and their businesses during the "peaceful" protests -have a good night

you must watch a lot of tucker carlson-i'm proud of you.  i like him a lot and i don't remember him wasting much time on his show about them

It wasn't a NYT survey. The survey was by the Public Religion Research Institute and the Interfaith Youth Core; the NYT was just the messenger. But you be you.

Regarding protests last summer turning violent, of course I condemn those that did; Biden also repeatedly condemned them -- he didn't tell the violent protesters to "stand by" or tell them, "I love you."

Look, I know y'all have no real defense for the previous president fomenting a violent coup attempt against the U.S. government. That's why you have to counter with totally unrelated incidents. But yes, although the vast majority of protests last summer were peaceful, some turned violent and that obviously was bad.

Now, as for Tucker and QAnon ...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/06/fox-news-host-tucker-carlson-qanon-followers

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/01/tucker-carlson-goes-qanon-cult

https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5gq93/bill-gates-jeffrey-epstein-used-by-tucker-carlson-to-push-qanon

Plenty more out there.

But don't worry ... although you often have problems with truth and facts and reality, everybody totally believes that you "like tucker a lot."

You have a good night, too!

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 13, 2021, 02:34:37 PM
Mandatory masks 24-7 for me at work.   City wide policy.   I remove mine to eat and sleep.    Even exercising with one on.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 13, 2021, 05:19:39 PM
What we're up against.

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1426052750383648768/pu/vid/960x720/AjpvMJXrgIzLkrNJ.mp4?tag=12
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 13, 2021, 05:26:48 PM
Ok, guys. Who tipped them off that we are coming for the children? Don't they understand that liberals just get hungry sometimes?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 13, 2021, 05:33:41 PM
Ok, guys. Who tipped them off that we are coming for the children? Don't they understand that liberals just get hungry sometimes?

I'm just trying to reconcile how COVID is both a bioweapon and something that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 13, 2021, 05:35:01 PM
What we're up against.

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1426052750383648768/pu/vid/960x720/AjpvMJXrgIzLkrNJ.mp4?tag=12

Was that The Penguin?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 13, 2021, 05:42:24 PM
At the local health department today, there was dueling protests.   Those who think that the health department's mask guidelines for children are too extreme and those who don't think they are stringent enough.   Separated by a driveway.   Kind of fun to drive past.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 13, 2021, 07:04:28 PM
Mandatory masks 24-7 for me at work.   City wide policy.   I remove mine to eat and sleep.    Even exercising with one on.

We’ve lost our collective minds. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 13, 2021, 07:44:15 PM
DeSantis has spent weeks threatening to do all kinds of things not in his power to keep Fla. schools from enacting mask mandates. He even threatened to withhold salaries of any school officials who tried to enact mandates.

At least 2 ignored his threats and went through with mandates because they actually care about the health and safety of the students and teachers and families.

And now DeSantis’ office is basically saying, “Whatever - he couldn’t legally take away salaries anyway.”

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 13, 2021, 08:17:13 PM
DeSantis has spent weeks threatening to do all kinds of things not in his power to keep Fla. schools from enacting mask mandates. He even threatened to withhold salaries of any school officials who tried to enact mandates.

At least 2 ignored his threats and went through with mandates because they actually care about the health and safety of the students and teachers and families.

And now DeSantis’ office is basically saying, “Whatever - he couldn’t legally take away salaries anyway.”

Thanks for the daily update on the inner workings of FL.  A state you don’t even live in but I’ve been tracking your state, not a great looking trend line going on in NC.  What’s the local reporting attributing that to?  Death Santis??
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 13, 2021, 08:27:57 PM
Thanks for the daily update on the inner workings of FL.  A state you don’t even live in but I’ve been tracking your state, not a great looking trend line going on in NC.  What’s the local reporting attributing that to?  Death Santis??
Well ,it is my state and right now, my very MAGA centric town is ground zero for Covid. And while the opt out rate for masks in schools in our county is a mere 4%, our local high school, where my son goes, the most overcrowded in the county is at a whopping 27% opt out rate and growing. And multiple positives.

But hey, let’s ignore it and go fund raising in other states. And mess with the numbers so it doesn’t look as bad as it is.

Florida changed how it reports COVID statistics. The result? The pandemic appears to look less severe, with fewer recent deaths - Orlando Sentinel

"Just as a highly contagious new delta variant sent Florida into a vicious COVID-19 surge, the state Department of Health changed the way it reports cases and deaths attributed to the virus.

The result: Florida no longer provides a real-time picture of how COVID is impacting the state.The most dramatic example is that Florida’s daily death count had been trending upward since the end of June, but with the recent adjustments made by the state Department of Health, the number of deaths due to COVID appeared to decline dramatically over the past week. At least on paper.

Experts say the downward trend is not at all what’s really happening with COVID deaths in a state that continues to set records for the growing number of daily COVID cases and hospitalizations."



Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 13, 2021, 09:07:17 PM
Well ,it is my state and right now, my very MAGA centric town is ground zero for Covid. And while the opt out rate for masks in schools in our county is a mere 4%, our local high school, where my son goes, the most overcrowded in the county is at a whopping 27% opt out rate and growing. And multiple positives.

But hey, let’s ignore it and go fund raising in other states. And mess with the numbers so it doesn’t look as bad as it is.

Florida changed how it reports COVID statistics. The result? The pandemic appears to look less severe, with fewer recent deaths - Orlando Sentinel

"Just as a highly contagious new delta variant sent Florida into a vicious COVID-19 surge, the state Department of Health changed the way it reports cases and deaths attributed to the virus.

The result: Florida no longer provides a real-time picture of how COVID is impacting the state.The most dramatic example is that Florida’s daily death count had been trending upward since the end of June, but with the recent adjustments made by the state Department of Health, the number of deaths due to COVID appeared to decline dramatically over the past week. At least on paper.

Experts say the downward trend is not at all what’s really happening with COVID deaths in a state that continues to set records for the growing number of daily COVID cases and hospitalizations."

As a resident your input on Florida makes sense.  Olberman’s man crush on Death Santis just confuses me.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 13, 2021, 09:41:57 PM
As a resident your input on Florida makes sense.  Olberman’s man crush on Death Santis just confuses me.

Yeah, because no one in the country ever visits Florida. We have no impact in the rest of the country.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 13, 2021, 09:47:54 PM
As a resident your input on Florida makes sense.  Olberman’s man crush on Death Santis just confuses me.

You’re funny, Tucker.

But really … stop supporting someone who doesn’t care if you live or die.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 13, 2021, 10:37:28 PM
You’re funny, Tucker.

But really … stop supporting someone who doesn’t care if you live or die.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Still need to scroll pretty far down to find Death Santis on the list of governors who don’t give a rip if you live or die.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 13, 2021, 11:44:01 PM
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Still need to scroll pretty far down to find Death Santis on the list of governors who don’t give a rip if you live or die.

In the last week, we only fall below Louisiana in cases per capita. And as noted above, his new death stats are bogus.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 14, 2021, 12:23:38 PM
I'm just trying to reconcile how COVID is both a bioweapon and something that doesn't exist.
She seems nice. But her bioweapon comment was about "the jab".

Oh, and Trump won...though I'm wondering why Trump created a bioweapon vaccine?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Johnny B on August 14, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
What we're up against.

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1426052750383648768/pu/vid/960x720/AjpvMJXrgIzLkrNJ.mp4?tag=12
monkeys with microphones. this is utter insanity. wtffff
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 14, 2021, 02:10:30 PM
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Still need to scroll pretty far down to find Death Santis on the list of governors who don’t give a rip if you live or die.

He is actively and aggressively fighting anyone who is trying to use readily available, proven means to limit the spread of a highly contagious, often debilitating, sometimes deadly virus.

He doesn't give a shyte about you.

But hey, at least he's begging the feds for extra ventilators to try to save the Floridians who get severe COVID-19 on his watch, so maybe I'm being too hard on him.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 14, 2021, 02:15:59 PM
Governor Deathsentence said this week that he was unaware of the request to the federales for more ventilators.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 14, 2021, 02:57:15 PM
Governor Deathsentence said this week that he was unaware of the request to the federales for more ventilators.

Good to know that he's up on what's happening in his administration.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 18, 2021, 01:55:47 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/nearly-two-thirds-americans-support-195726766.html

Roughly the same number of people who support vaccinations support mask mandates.      Odd.     
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 18, 2021, 07:19:54 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/nearly-two-thirds-americans-support-195726766.html

Roughly the same number of people who support vaccinations support mask mandates.      Odd.     

I call them the “silent majority”
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 18, 2021, 08:14:00 PM
I call them the “silent majority”

I call them the "sane majority."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 18, 2021, 08:47:34 PM
I call them the "sane majority."

I agree with your sentiment but as I hike along SF Bay this afternoon, 80% of the people out for a walk/hike are alone and masked up. These are not people in gathering groups. As the NYT and the CDC have said, you have near zero chance catching COVID like this outside and even less of a chance if double vaccinated. I may have better odds catching gonnorrhea from a toilet seat.

Let me preface this to say that this is young and old, all ethnicities, all genders, no kids around. SF isn't even a hotspot. Are people this crazed all over outside?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Johnny B on August 18, 2021, 08:49:43 PM
I agree with your sentiment but as I hike along SF Bay this afternoon, 80% of the people out for a walk/hike are alone and masked up. These are not people in gathering groups. As the NYT and the CDC have said, you have near zero chance catching COVID like this outside and even less of a chance if double vaccinated. I may have better odds catching gonnorrhea from a toilet seat.

Let me preface this to say that this is young and old, all ethnicities, all genders, no kids around. SF isn't even a hotspot. Are people this crazed all over outside?
yeah thats way over the top. wear masks indoors in crowded areas. get vaxxed but this is wierd. might as well wear a helmet at all times walking around NYC in case somthing falls off a building.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 18, 2021, 09:08:57 PM
I agree with your sentiment but as I hike along SF Bay this afternoon, 80% of the people out for a walk/hike are alone and masked up. These are not people in gathering groups. As the NYT and the CDC have said, you have near zero chance catching COVID like this outside and even less of a chance if double vaccinated. I may have better odds catching gonnorrhea from a toilet seat.

Let me preface this to say that this is young and old, all ethnicities, all genders, no kids around. SF isn't even a hotspot. Are people this crazed all over outside?

That’s more intense than the northeast.  I would say that since people have been facing breakthroughs masking indoors is way up even before the cdc reversed course or local govt acted. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 18, 2021, 09:14:29 PM
That’s more intense than the northeast.  I would say that since people have been facing breakthroughs masking indoors is way up even before the cdc reversed course or local govt acted.

I may add we also have the fires, but the smoke is not really here. Folks are unduly paranoid and I think it affects mental health to be honest.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 18, 2021, 09:17:06 PM
I may add we also have the fires, but the smoke is not really here. Folks are unduly paranoid and I think it affects mental health to be honest.

I was in Cleveland a few weeks ago and it looked like I was in Delhi.  The fires have had a crazy impact across the nation so I can’t imagine what it looks like closer to the impacted area.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 18, 2021, 09:24:57 PM
I was in Cleveland a few weeks ago and it looked like I was in Delhi.  The fires have had a crazy impact across the nation so I can’t imagine what it looks like closer to the impacted area.

The Santa Ana's haven't started yet (September) so not bad in SF (the Chico fire two years ago was bad as the winds shift from East to West and then the Pacific vacuums that smoke right down the Golden Gate). I heard it's bad in The Valley, though.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 18, 2021, 10:44:14 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheLeadCNN/status/1428132783717855237

Jake Tapper in a rare journalistic moment, gently calling out the absolute hypocrisy of having mask mandates in schools but not vaccines mandates.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 18, 2021, 11:44:00 PM
I agree with your sentiment but as I hike along SF Bay this afternoon, 80% of the people out for a walk/hike are alone and masked up. These are not people in gathering groups. As the NYT and the CDC have said, you have near zero chance catching COVID like this outside and even less of a chance if double vaccinated. I may have better odds catching gonnorrhea from a toilet seat.

Let me preface this to say that this is young and old, all ethnicities, all genders, no kids around. SF isn't even a hotspot. Are people this crazed all over outside?

That's daily in Madison.   Plus the people alone in their car, windows up, and masked.

People want to be afraid of something.  And have something to rely upon the government for to run their lives.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 19, 2021, 12:20:38 AM
I may add we also have the fires, but the smoke is not really here. Folks are unduly paranoid and I think it affects mental health to be honest.

Totally agree.  A woman in my complex, who I know from previous conversations is both vaccinated and had COVID in April pre-vaccination, was sitting on her front patio, reading in a mask.  A younger couple down the hall from me we are friendly with, also fully vaxxed, have been wearing masks when walking their dogs on the trail each day.  My fiancee had a chat with them and the BF mentioned that they "just thought we should".  Its all a bit flying in the face of "following the science" and definitely trending towards paranoia as you say.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 19, 2021, 04:32:22 AM
nm
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 19, 2021, 05:43:44 AM
That's daily in Madison.   Plus the people alone in their car, windows up, and masked.

People want to be afraid of something.  And have something to rely upon the government for to run their lives.



Its like a baby's pacifier for an adult, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 19, 2021, 05:52:09 AM
I was actually going to use the security blanket metaphor.  I don't think people want to "rely on the government" for something, but I do think its a combination between paranoia and security - which can be a fine line.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 19, 2021, 08:04:52 AM
That's daily in Madison.   Plus the people alone in their car, windows up, and masked.

I know several people who do this. Not because they're afraid of anything, but because they wear a mask all day at work, get used to it and forget to take it off.
I know you're super smart, but don't assume you know what's going on in everyone else's minds.

Quote
People want to be afraid of something.  And have something to rely upon the government for to run their lives.

Crisis at the Border!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUfan12 on August 19, 2021, 09:17:58 AM
I was actually going to use the security blanket metaphor.  I don't think people want to "rely on the government" for something, but I do think its a combination between paranoia and security - which can be a fine line.

Yep.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GrimmReaper33 on August 19, 2021, 10:33:23 AM
It's amazing how different areas & parts of the country/state are.  Obviously, politics and the news that people choose to consume has a huge influence on how they perceive Covid and just act in general.

At my employer people have been coming back as normal for months, with no mask/vaccine/distancing requirements.  At least 200+ people a day in the same building for the last 3 months, and more like 400+ for the past month.  Masks are voluntary but strongly suggested if not vaccinated.  Employees are not required to be vaccinated or provide their vaccination status, but all corporate messaging strongly encourages vaccination.  Meeting rooms, lunch rooms, cubicle & office set ups are completely as they were in 2019.  On a daily basis, you'll maybe see 1 or 2 people walking around common areas with a mask.  Around the community and local public places, I would say masking is maybe 10-20%? 

I know positive cases in the area are higher but I don't believe local hospitals are being overrun with ICU patients or anything like that.  My wife who is a RN at one of the hospitals has said there has been no message of capacity concerns. 

Not making a statement one way or another, regarding which 'way' I agree with- just fascinating how difference things can be and feel from one area to another, a total opposite example from the SF and Madison areas.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 19, 2021, 12:39:25 PM
It's amazing how different areas & parts of the country/state are.  Obviously, politics and the news that people choose to consume has a huge influence on how they perceive Covid and just act in general.

At my employer people have been coming back as normal for months, with no mask/vaccine/distancing requirements.  At least 200+ people a day in the same building for the last 3 months, and more like 400+ for the past month.  Masks are voluntary but strongly suggested if not vaccinated.  Employees are not required to be vaccinated or provide their vaccination status, but all corporate messaging strongly encourages vaccination.  Meeting rooms, lunch rooms, cubicle & office set ups are completely as they were in 2019.  On a daily basis, you'll maybe see 1 or 2 people walking around common areas with a mask.  Around the community and local public places, I would say masking is maybe 10-20%? 

I know positive cases in the area are higher but I don't believe local hospitals are being overrun with ICU patients or anything like that.  My wife who is a RN at one of the hospitals has said there has been no message of capacity concerns. 

Not making a statement one way or another, regarding which 'way' I agree with- just fascinating how difference things can be and feel from one area to another, a total opposite example from the SF and Madison areas.

Either:
1. Your place of employment has a very high vaccination rate
2. Your place of employment has been very fortunate
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 19, 2021, 01:20:55 PM
It's amazing how different areas & parts of the country/state are.  Obviously, politics and the news that people choose to consume has a huge influence on how they perceive Covid and just act in general.

At my employer people have been coming back as normal for months, with no mask/vaccine/distancing requirements.  At least 200+ people a day in the same building for the last 3 months, and more like 400+ for the past month.  Masks are voluntary but strongly suggested if not vaccinated.  Employees are not required to be vaccinated or provide their vaccination status, but all corporate messaging strongly encourages vaccination.  Meeting rooms, lunch rooms, cubicle & office set ups are completely as they were in 2019.  On a daily basis, you'll maybe see 1 or 2 people walking around common areas with a mask.  Around the community and local public places, I would say masking is maybe 10-20%? 

I know positive cases in the area are higher but I don't believe local hospitals are being overrun with ICU patients or anything like that.  My wife who is a RN at one of the hospitals has said there has been no message of capacity concerns. 

Not making a statement one way or another, regarding which 'way' I agree with- just fascinating how difference things can be and feel from one area to another, a total opposite example from the SF and Madison areas.

Thanks for that interesting info, Grimm.

Where do you live? If you'd rather not give the city, maybe just the state?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 19, 2021, 06:58:24 PM
Or maybe mitigation steps work?  We can make fun of the extremes because it is quite funny.  But it’s not like we don’t know how to tamp this down at this point. 

https://twitter.com/bob_wachter/status/1428411925315031047?s=21 (https://twitter.com/bob_wachter/status/1428411925315031047?s=21)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GrimmReaper33 on August 20, 2021, 07:58:09 AM
Either:
1. Your place of employment has a very high vaccination rate
2. Your place of employment has been very fortunate

1)  Probably.  It's probably considered a 'white collar' employer and a vast majority of employees have at least a bachelor's degree so most are 'educated.'  If I had to guesstimate, I'm assuming at least 75% are probably vaccinated.

2)  Maybe, maybe not.  As I said, it's pretty much back to normal in my whole area & community.  My employer is not the only place in the area that has people back to work without requiring masks, distancing, or proof of vaccination.  I would bet if you were to mass test everyone, there would be employees, or people in the community, who would test positive but have minor or no symptoms, especially if they have the vaccine.  Seems like that is going to be the new normal.  It's also clearly the case since case counts are up.  Thankfully, hospitals aren't being overrun and the death count isn't piling up like crazy in our area, again probably because most people that are high risk have gotten the vaccine.

Again, not choosing sides just sharing the opposite end of the spectrum compared to other areas that were mentioned here.

 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: GrimmReaper33 on August 20, 2021, 08:00:11 AM
Thanks for that interesting info, Grimm.

Where do you live? If you'd rather not give the city, maybe just the state?

Wisconsin- not Dane County though, as I said. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 20, 2021, 08:17:18 AM
Wisconsin- not Dane County though, as I said.

Thanks. I obviously missed that. Stay well.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 20, 2021, 11:21:55 AM
My town's board of commissioners just mandated that masks be worn in any indoor public place, business, or establishment, starting at 5 p.m. today "due to the increase in Covid-19 cases, hospitalizations, and positivity rate in our community."

The county's mandate was gonna kick in soon, anyway, so I'm glad my town was more proactive.

I'm also glad we don't have a governor who has tried to forbid our town and county from doing this.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 20, 2021, 02:12:18 PM
No words for this.

I take that back: there are plenty of words. If you are pissed off about mask mandates, or are whining about your "freedom" in anyway, these are the people to blame...and yourself if you support them politically.

Maine Lawmaker Whose Wife Just Died of COVID Joins Anti-Vaxx Rally
https://www.thedailybeast.com/chris-johansen-maine-lawmaker-whose-wife-cindy-johansen-died-of-covid-joins-anti-vaxx-rally?ref=home

"A Republican legislator in Maine who lost his wife to COVID-19 last week appeared at a rally on Tuesday that featured a GOP colleague who compared the state’s Democratic governor to a Nazi doctor who performed deadly experiments on Jews during the Holocaust.

State Rep. Heidi Sampson delivered a speech to the crowd that baselessly accused Gov. Janet Mills, who has introduced a vaccine mandate for health-care workers, of operating a government campaign to test “experimental” vaccines on unknowing citizens.

She described Mills as the “reincarnated” Nazi doctor Josef Mengele, who performed deadly experiments on Jewish people in Auschwitz death camps during the Holocaust.

“Do I need to remind you of the late 1930s and into the 40s in Germany. And the experiments with Josef Mengele,” Sampson said according to a video from the event posted online. “What was it? A shot. And these were crimes against humanity. And what came out of that? The Nuremberg Code. The Nuremberg Trial. Informed consent is at the top and violating that is punishable by death.”

According to the Bangor Daily News, neither Chris Johansen nor his wife Cindy, who served as corresponding secretary for the Aroostook County Republicans, had been vaccinated against COVID when she first began describing her symptoms on Facebook last month."

Oh yeah, and thrown in this unnatural carnal knowledgeer while you we're at it

GOP Leader Who Fought Against Vaccine Dies After Weekslong Battle With Coronavirus

'Pressley Stutts, a Republican leader in South Carolina who fought COVID-19 vaccination efforts, died on Thursday of the coronavirus after a weekslong battle, including six days spent on a ventilator, The Greenville News reported.

Stutts, a 64-year-old veteran, frequently shared conspiracy theories about the virus, the vaccines and the 2020 election on Facebook, including in posts made from his ICU bed."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: cheebs09 on August 20, 2021, 02:15:24 PM
No words for this.

I take that back: there are plenty of words. If you are pissed off about mask mandates, or are whining about your "freedom" in anyway, these are the people to blame...and yourself if you support them politically.

Maine Lawmaker Whose Wife Just Died of COVID Joins Anti-Vaxx Rally
https://www.thedailybeast.com/chris-johansen-maine-lawmaker-whose-wife-cindy-johansen-died-of-covid-joins-anti-vaxx-rally?ref=home

"A Republican legislator in Maine who lost his wife to COVID-19 last week appeared at a rally on Tuesday that featured a GOP colleague who compared the state’s Democratic governor to a Nazi doctor who performed deadly experiments on Jews during the Holocaust.

State Rep. Heidi Sampson delivered a speech to the crowd that baselessly accused Gov. Janet Mills, who has introduced a vaccine mandate for health-care workers, of operating a government campaign to test “experimental” vaccines on unknowing citizens.

She described Mills as the “reincarnated” Nazi doctor Josef Mengele, who performed deadly experiments on Jewish people in Auschwitz death camps during the Holocaust.

“Do I need to remind you of the late 1930s and into the 40s in Germany. And the experiments with Josef Mengele,” Sampson said according to a video from the event posted online. “What was it? A shot. And these were crimes against humanity. And what came out of that? The Nuremberg Code. The Nuremberg Trial. Informed consent is at the top and violating that is punishable by death.”

According to the Bangor Daily News, neither Chris Johansen nor his wife Cindy, who served as corresponding secretary for the Aroostook County Republicans, had been vaccinated against COVID when she first began describing her symptoms on Facebook last month."

It honestly makes me wonder what it will take to change people’s minds. Deaths of friends and family don’t seem to be a motivation for many to go get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 20, 2021, 02:28:18 PM
No words for this.

I take that back: there are plenty of words. If you are pissed off about mask mandates, or are whining about your "freedom" in anyway, these are the people to blame...and yourself if you support them politically.

Maine Lawmaker Whose Wife Just Died of COVID Joins Anti-Vaxx Rally
https://www.thedailybeast.com/chris-johansen-maine-lawmaker-whose-wife-cindy-johansen-died-of-covid-joins-anti-vaxx-rally?ref=home

"A Republican legislator in Maine who lost his wife to COVID-19 last week appeared at a rally on Tuesday that featured a GOP colleague who compared the state’s Democratic governor to a Nazi doctor who performed deadly experiments on Jews during the Holocaust.

State Rep. Heidi Sampson delivered a speech to the crowd that baselessly accused Gov. Janet Mills, who has introduced a vaccine mandate for health-care workers, of operating a government campaign to test “experimental” vaccines on unknowing citizens.

She described Mills as the “reincarnated” Nazi doctor Josef Mengele, who performed deadly experiments on Jewish people in Auschwitz death camps during the Holocaust.

“Do I need to remind you of the late 1930s and into the 40s in Germany. And the experiments with Josef Mengele,” Sampson said according to a video from the event posted online. “What was it? A shot. And these were crimes against humanity. And what came out of that? The Nuremberg Code. The Nuremberg Trial. Informed consent is at the top and violating that is punishable by death.”

According to the Bangor Daily News, neither Chris Johansen nor his wife Cindy, who served as corresponding secretary for the Aroostook County Republicans, had been vaccinated against COVID when she first began describing her symptoms on Facebook last month."

Oh yeah, and thrown in this unnatural carnal knowledgeer while you we're at it

GOP Leader Who Fought Against Vaccine Dies After Weekslong Battle With Coronavirus

'Pressley Stutts, a Republican leader in South Carolina who fought COVID-19 vaccination efforts, died on Thursday of the coronavirus after a weekslong battle, including six days spent on a ventilator, The Greenville News reported.

Stutts, a 64-year-old veteran, frequently shared conspiracy theories about the virus, the vaccines and the 2020 election on Facebook, including in posts made from his ICU bed."

Is this lunacy? Or just effen scary? I worry about the future of our once-great democratic republic.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on August 20, 2021, 02:47:15 PM
Finally a little good news out of Texas, as Abbott's mandate ban hits a judicial wall ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/20/texas-court-masks-schools-abbott/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3473d46%2F611fd2389d2fda2f47ffdd48%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F27%2F76%2F611fd2389d2fda2f47ffdd48

The Texas Supreme Court on Thursday denied Gov. Greg Abbott’s request to block temporary restraining orders on his ban on mask mandates, allowing schools that are requiring face coverings in defiance of the state to proceed.

The court, whose justices are elected and currently all Republicans, cited a provision of the Texas Rules of Appellate Procedure for why the request was denied. The one-sentence order provided no additional details.

The state’s high court rejected the efforts of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) to block temporary restraining orders issued by Travis County Judge Jan Soifer. Parents in Travis County, home to Austin, with children under age 12 who are not eligible to receive a coronavirus vaccine, filed the orders, saying the Republican governor’s ban on mask mandates was a threat to public health. Soifer barred enforcement of Abbott’s ban, clearing the way for mask requirements in Harris County and eight school districts.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 20, 2021, 04:11:54 PM
Finally a little good news out of Texas, as Abbott's mandate ban hits a judicial wall ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/20/texas-court-masks-schools-abbott/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3473d46%2F611fd2389d2fda2f47ffdd48%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F27%2F76%2F611fd2389d2fda2f47ffdd48

The Texas Supreme Court on Thursday denied Gov. Greg Abbott’s request to block temporary restraining orders on his ban on mask mandates, allowing schools that are requiring face coverings in defiance of the state to proceed.

The court, whose justices are elected and currently all Republicans, cited a provision of the Texas Rules of Appellate Procedure for why the request was denied. The one-sentence order provided no additional details.

The state’s high court rejected the efforts of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) to block temporary restraining orders issued by Travis County Judge Jan Soifer. Parents in Travis County, home to Austin, with children under age 12 who are not eligible to receive a coronavirus vaccine, filed the orders, saying the Republican governor’s ban on mask mandates was a threat to public health. Soifer barred enforcement of Abbott’s ban, clearing the way for mask requirements in Harris County and eight school districts.


Abbott got what he wanted
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 20, 2021, 04:47:44 PM
Abbott got what he wanted

Yep. Abbott doesn't care whether kids wear masks or not. He just wants the base to think he cares.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 20, 2021, 05:08:39 PM
Yep. Abbott doesn't care whether kids wear masks or not. He just wants the base to think he cares.

He has to try to maintain his poll numbers within striking distance of DiSantis somehow.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on August 20, 2021, 07:32:11 PM
Yep. Abbott doesn't care whether kids wear masks or not. He just wants the base to think he cares.

He's in a potentially serious re-election fight, because a lot of the GOP base thinks he is too liberal.

Let that sink in for a moment.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 22, 2021, 02:41:28 PM
Study on mask efficacy:  Use a good one

https://uwaterloo.ca/news/media/study-supports-widespread-use-better-masks-curb-covid-19
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 22, 2021, 08:04:54 PM
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html?utm_source=tw&utm_campaign=nym&utm_medium=s1

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 22, 2021, 08:43:28 PM
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html?utm_source=tw&utm_campaign=nym&utm_medium=s1

Given the exponential growth of infections among children in the past four weeks, how valid is a report published in May that's based on data collected in NovemberandDecember?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 22, 2021, 08:57:30 PM
Given the exponential growth of infections among children in the past four weeks, how valid is a report published in May that's based on data collected in NovemberandDecember?

Ok, mark  Pakuni down in the column of not following the science.   Unless schools mandate N95s it’s all political theater.  I’m ok with the argument of encouraging masks  because why not, but to suggest there’s overwhelming peer reviewed evidence out there would not be correct.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 22, 2021, 09:04:40 PM
Ok, mark  Pakuni down in the column of not following the science.   Unless schools mandate N95s it’s all political theater.  I’m ok with the argument of encouraging masks  because why not, but to suggest there’s overwhelming peer reviewed evidence out there would not be correct.

Aside from lame rhetorical tricks that display your puerilirty, can you answer the question?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 22, 2021, 09:08:23 PM
Aside from lame rhetorical tricks that display your puerilirty, can you answer the question?

What was my question?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 22, 2021, 09:12:12 PM
Data collected before delta existed seems useless.

Amazing fact, before the civil war, there was never a single plane crash!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 22, 2021, 09:13:05 PM
What was my question?

You're not good at this.
Can you answer my question, please?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 22, 2021, 09:27:36 PM
You're not good at this.
Can you answer my question, please?

If you can’t figure out that I think the data was relevant, hence me posting it and you now need me to spell that out for you here you go.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 22, 2021, 09:28:06 PM
Given the exponential growth of infections among children in the past four weeks, how valid is a report published in May that's based on data collected in NovemberandDecember?

"That was 4 or 5 days ago."

Maybe the study was peer reviewed?  Maybe the NYer just published the article?

Can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 22, 2021, 09:30:29 PM
"That was 4 or 5 days ago."

Maybe the study was peer reviewed?  Maybe the NYer just published the article?

Can't have it both ways.

You guys are trying way too hard not to answer what I thought was a simple question. Makes me suspect you know the answer, but would rather not write it.
Perhaps one of our more informed posters will fill us in.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 23, 2021, 08:26:53 AM
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html?utm_source=tw&utm_campaign=nym&utm_medium=s1
(https://images2.imgbox.com/0e/27/VNbh0MLo_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/VNbh0MLo)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 23, 2021, 11:23:13 AM
Looks like NC State and Georgia Tech answered the question Ziggy and Pace couldn't.

Students are returning to classrooms at a time when the Delta variant of Covid-19 is circulating. The Delta variant is about 50% more infectious than the Alpha variant, which was as much as 50% more infectious than earlier strains in the US. That means Covid-19 is now significantly more transmissible than it was in the previous school year.
Our modeling found that without masks or regular testing, up to 90% of susceptible students may become infected by the end of the semester. This high rate of infection would result in frequent quarantines of students and transmission to others. 


https://covsim.hosted-wordpress.oit.ncsu.edu/school-level-modeling-results/


Without interventions in place, the vast majority of susceptible students will become infected through the semester. Universal masking can reduce student infections by 26-78%, and biweekly testing along with masking reduces infections by another 50%. To prevent new infections in the community, limit school absences, and maintain in-person learning, interventions such as masking and testing must be implemented widely, especially among elementary school settings in which children are not yet eligible for the vaccine.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.10.21261726v1
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUfan12 on August 23, 2021, 01:33:31 PM
Looks like NC State and Georgia Tech answered the question Ziggy and Pace couldn't.

I'm fine with it as a minimum precaution until kids can get vaxxed, but I wouldn't say those were answers. They're guesses, just as all the other models have been during this thing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 23, 2021, 02:13:19 PM
I'm fine with it as a minimum precaution until kids can get vaxxed, but I wouldn't say those were answers. They're guesses, just as all the other models have been during this thing.

Yup.

Science is just make-believe.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUfan12 on August 23, 2021, 02:26:46 PM
Yup.

Science is just make-believe.

I'm all for science. Got the shot the first day I was eligible.

But because I take a critical eye to a non-peer reviewed paper, I think science is make-believe. Got it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 23, 2021, 02:30:15 PM
I'm all for science. Got the shot the first day I was eligible.

But because I take a critical eye to a non-peer reviewed paper, I think science is make-believe. Got it.

It was a joke.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 23, 2021, 02:40:15 PM
I'm fine with it as a minimum precaution until kids can get vaxxed, but I wouldn't say those were answers. They're guesses, just as all the other models have been during this thing.

My question was whether data from last fall - pre-Delta and pre-90+ percent case increase in children - is still timely and valid when making public health decisions for school this fall.
This passage seems to say "no" and is not just guesses.

Students are returning to classrooms at a time when the Delta variant of Covid-19 is circulating. The Delta variant is about 50% more infectious than the Alpha variant, which was as much as 50% more infectious than earlier strains in the US. That means Covid-19 is now significantly more transmissible than it was in the previous school year.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on August 23, 2021, 05:41:27 PM
My question was whether data from last fall - pre-Delta and pre-90+ percent case increase in children - is still timely and valid when making public health decisions for school this fall.
This passage seems to say "no" and is not just guesses.

Students are returning to classrooms at a time when the Delta variant of Covid-19 is circulating. The Delta variant is about 50% more infectious than the Alpha variant, which was as much as 50% more infectious than earlier strains in the US. That means Covid-19 is now significantly more transmissible than it was in the previous school year.

What does the transmissibility of Delta have to do with mandating a measure that hasnt proven to do much of anything to prevent transmission.  I never argued that Delta wasn’t more contagious.  Mandating masks in schools where 99% of the masks worn are nothing more then specially cut cloths with elastic ear bands to prevent the spread of Delta isn’t backed by peer reviewed data/analysis.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on August 23, 2021, 06:05:10 PM
What does the transmissibility of Delta have to do with mandating a measure that hasnt proven to do much of anything to prevent transmission.  I never argued that Delta wasn’t more contagious.  Mandating masks in schools where 99% of the masks worn are nothing more then specially cut cloths with elastic ear bands to prevent the spread of Delta isn’t backed by peer reviewed data/analysis.

Your assertion that 99% of masks do not prevent the spread is false. Even the assertion that masks do not prevent the spread of COVID is false.

Both have been proven ad nauseam in peer-reviewed literature.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 23, 2021, 06:11:54 PM
Chico is here strictly to argue. I am amazed so many of you indulge him.

He knows the facts. He is playing you.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 23, 2021, 06:12:03 PM
Your assertion that 99% of masks do not prevent the spread is false. Even the assertion that masks do not prevent the spread of COVID is false.

Both have been proven ad nauseam in peer-reviewed literature.
He knows that. It was also noted in the 2nd paragraph: Universal masking can reduce student infections by 26-78%, and biweekly testing along with masking reduces infections by another 50%.

Bad faith trolling.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 27, 2021, 09:11:32 PM
Chuck Darwin on Line 1. Yay, Freedumb!

‘It’s not looking in our favor’: Man who organized anti-mask Freedom Rally now on a ventilator after catching COVID
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/it-s-not-looking-in-our-favor-man-who-organized-anti-mask-freedom-rally-now-on-a-ventilator-after-catching-covid/ar-AANOPmv?ocid=msedgntp

"A Texas man who had organized a “Freedom Rally” in protest of COVID-19 restrictions is now on a ventilator after becoming infected with COVID, according to his pregnant wife.

Caleb helped organize the "Freedom Rally" on July 4, 2020 for those “sick of the government being in control of our lives,” and with attendees who held signs against masking and business closures during the pandemic, the Standard-Times reported."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on August 27, 2021, 10:24:22 PM
Very sad, three little girls with one on the way..  I read that they were trying to get him transferred to a hospital with an Ecmo machine, but none were available - couldn't even get on a waiting list.  Couldn't FT often because the staff is slammed. 

This is an illustration of how refusal to vaccinate and take mitigation measures does indeed affect others. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 28, 2021, 11:20:06 AM
Chuck Darwin on Line 1. Yay, Freedumb!

‘It’s not looking in our favor’: Man who organized anti-mask Freedom Rally now on a ventilator after catching COVID
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/it-s-not-looking-in-our-favor-man-who-organized-anti-mask-freedom-rally-now-on-a-ventilator-after-catching-covid/ar-AANOPmv?ocid=msedgntp

"A Texas man who had organized a “Freedom Rally” in protest of COVID-19 restrictions is now on a ventilator after becoming infected with COVID, according to his pregnant wife.

Caleb helped organize the "Freedom Rally" on July 4, 2020 for those “sick of the government being in control of our lives,” and with attendees who held signs against masking and business closures during the pandemic, the Standard-Times reported."

Terrible for his family. Good for society as a whole. Takes a certain kind of lowlife to encourage others to risk the lives of their family members.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 29, 2021, 09:05:54 AM
Terrible for his family. Good for society as a whole. Takes a certain kind of lowlife to encourage others to risk the lives of their family members.
Well, he's dead now.

Feel sorry for the family, though not for this pretty boy. Kids didn't ask for a dumbass dad, and the wife wore a mask against his wishes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 29, 2021, 09:21:37 AM
Well, he's dead now.

Feel sorry for the family, though not for this pretty boy. Kids didn't ask for a dumbass dad, and the wife wore a mask against his wishes.

I don't want to say this guy doesn't bear responsibility for this outcome, because clearly he does. But whenever a case like this happens - and they're happening a lot lately - it's worth remembering that there's a massive right-wing (and, if we're being honest, Russian) misinformation campaign behind these anti-maskers and many of the anti-vaxxers.
Those are the real evil-doers here. This is just a guy foolish enough to fall for it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on August 29, 2021, 09:53:59 AM
I don't want to say this guy doesn't bear responsibility for this outcome, because clearly he does. But whenever a case like this happens - and they're happening a lot lately - it's worth remembering that there's a massive right-wing (and, if we're being honest, Russian) misinformation campaign behind these anti-maskers and many of the anti-vaxxers.
Those are the real evil-doers here. This is just a guy foolish enough to fall for it.

This guy was one of the people spreading the false info. No sympathy for him.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muwarrior69 on August 29, 2021, 11:14:53 AM
Your assertion that 99% of masks do not prevent the spread is false. Even the assertion that masks do not prevent the spread of COVID is false.

Both have been proven ad nauseam in peer-reviewed literature.

Citations, please. I'm not being snarky. I would like to read the literature that actually can demonstrate that with non anecdotal data.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on August 29, 2021, 11:20:47 AM
Citations, please. I'm not being snarky. I would like to read the literature that actually can demonstrate that with non anecdotal data.



https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/do-face-masks-work-here-are-49-scientific-studies-that-explain-why-they-do/
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muwarrior69 on August 29, 2021, 11:36:06 AM
Looks like NC State and Georgia Tech answered the question Ziggy and Pace couldn't.

Students are returning to classrooms at a time when the Delta variant of Covid-19 is circulating. The Delta variant is about 50% more infectious than the Alpha variant, which was as much as 50% more infectious than earlier strains in the US. That means Covid-19 is now significantly more transmissible than it was in the previous school year.
Our modeling found that without masks or regular testing, up to 90% of susceptible students may become infected by the end of the semester. This high rate of infection would result in frequent quarantines of students and transmission to others. 


https://covsim.hosted-wordpress.oit.ncsu.edu/school-level-modeling-results/


Without interventions in place, the vast majority of susceptible students will become infected through the semester. Universal masking can reduce student infections by 26-78%, and biweekly testing along with masking reduces infections by another 50%. To prevent new infections in the community, limit school absences, and maintain in-person learning, interventions such as masking and testing must be implemented widely, especially among elementary school settings in which children are not yet eligible for the vaccine.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.10.21261726v1

These are based on modeling, not hard data of kids infected without masks vs with masks. Those infection rates are for the most part of non-immune people who are symptomatic. If you want to wear a mask fine but I'm dubious as to how much protection it offers until I can see a study with hard data of actual subjects. I'm vaccinated and going to my choir summer sing this afternoon. I will wear a mask as requested though I'm not sure it matters much one way or the other.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on August 29, 2021, 11:39:22 AM
Citations, please. I'm not being snarky. I would like to read the literature that actually can demonstrate that with non anecdotal data.

As a general review, I kind of like this article, as it goes through the problems with data etc from previous studies, then highlights why masks should be used.

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 (https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118)

In general through if you want to come to your own conclusions, pubmed is a free searchable database of articles.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=covid%20mask%20efficacy
 (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=covid%20mask%20efficacy)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 29, 2021, 11:42:06 AM
This guy was one of the people spreading the false info. No sympathy for him.

Something or someone made him believe that the false information was true. I very much doubt he was knowingly spreading false information. He was a true believer. On the other hand, the entities (right-wing media figures, Russia) pushing the misinformation know it's false, but are putting it out there. They're the arch villains here.
You're in no way obligated to feel sympathy for this guy, but he was just a useful idiot. Laugh at, mock and belittle him all you want, but he's the rube here, not the con.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 29, 2021, 11:45:41 AM
Something or someone made him believe that the false information was true. I very much doubt he was knowingly spreading false information. He was a true believer. On the other hand, the entities (right-wing media figures, Russia) pushing the misinformation know it's false, but are putting it out there. They're the arch villains here.
You're in no way obligated to feel sympathy for this guy, but he was just a useful idiot. Laugh at, mock and belittle him all you want, but he's the rube here, not the con.

While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, I have a hard time believing the bolded part.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 29, 2021, 11:46:39 AM

https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/do-face-masks-work-here-are-49-scientific-studies-that-explain-why-they-do/

Won't do a thing to convince him. Facts are irrelevant to these people.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on August 29, 2021, 11:59:09 AM
While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, I have a hard time believing the bolded part.

To believe that, you'd have to believe he knew wearing masks, social distancing, etc. would keep people safe, but he not only chose not to do those things himself, but didn't want his wife and children doing it either.
That's pretty monstrous.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on August 29, 2021, 12:03:13 PM
The problem is that the virus is relentless and doesn't care.   All it wants is a receptive host and to spread.    Humans think they are smarter than the virus and live in denial about it.   They think there are shortcuts to beating the virus.   There aren't.   And if you think there are, the virus is smarter than you, too.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 29, 2021, 02:02:16 PM
I’m currently in Vegas for a convention and the Nevada mask mandate and it’s nuances is baffling.

They are MILITANT about enforcement on the convention floor.  Multiple times I’ve seen people near me be asked to fix their mask or cover their nose.  However, on the casino floor, you need to be masked unless drinking or smoking.  If you have your mask hanging off of one ear while taking a drink, you will be approached and scolded by staff or security.  The preferred method is pulling it under your chin.  If you keep it under to it chin indefinitely, even if there isn’t a drink or smoke on your lips, staff won’t approach you.

And bars/restaurants? Free for all.  The minute you enter either, not sit at your table, just enter the establishment, the only people wearing masks are staff.   I went to a nightclub last night, 2000 people or so, the only people in masks were the bartenders.

I personally haven’t been skeeved out or worried, I’ve just found it interesting and amusing
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 29, 2021, 02:07:42 PM
To believe that, you'd have to believe he knew wearing masks, social distancing, etc. would keep people safe, but he not only chose not to do those things himself, but didn't want his wife and children doing it either.
That's pretty monstrous.

Common sense says that you are right.

But…., politics changes people. People who claimed to be patriotic Americans tried to overthrow our government. So, it’s not a big reach to believe people are denying Covid reality because of politics.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on August 29, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
Common sense says that you are right.

But…., politics changes people. People who claimed to be patriotic Americans tried to overthrow our government. So, it’s not a big reach to believe people are denying Covid reality because of politics.

You just agreed with him. Denying reality or willful ignorance as a result of politics is a stark difference than not caring.

There is a difference between not wearing a seatbelt because a politician you align with is anti-seatbelt and has convinced/brainwashed you into thinking they are a hoax and don’t work and someone who knows seatbelts are proven and safely effective but do not use them cause they hate seatbelt supporters. Pakuni is (rightly) assuming this guy was the former. As many of these naive idiots are
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: muwarrior69 on August 29, 2021, 02:47:41 PM
Won't do a thing to convince him. Facts are irrelevant to these people.

Wow! The first paper had a table of mask mandated places where people gather. The first was 169 clients from a hair salon where two contracted COVID. Where was the data from a hair salon that had no mask mandate. None, but I'm suppose to conclude that masks work with those facts.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on August 29, 2021, 02:52:09 PM
You just agreed with him. Denying reality or willful ignorance as a result of politics is a stark difference than not caring.

There is a difference between not wearing a seatbelt because a politician you align with is anti-seatbelt and has convinced/brainwashed you into thinking they are a hoax and don’t work and someone who knows seatbelts are proven and safely effective but do not use them cause they hate seatbelt supporters. Pakuni is (rightly) assuming this guy was the former. As many of these naive idiots are

He may have been right. You really don't know. As a matter of fact, by saying "As many of these naive idiots are", you are admitting that many are not.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on August 29, 2021, 04:23:51 PM
Wow! The first paper had a table of mask mandated places where people gather. The first was 169 clients from a hair salon where two contracted COVID. Where was the data from a hair salon that had no mask mandate. None, but I'm suppose to conclude that masks work with those facts.
The link is to 49 studies. But no amount of data will change your mind, so what is the point?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 01, 2021, 08:22:22 AM
Mask evidence. Also seems like an interesting trial on the strategies they tested for increasing mask use. 

https://twitter.com/jabaluck/status/1433036923610742789?s=21 (https://twitter.com/jabaluck/status/1433036923610742789?s=21)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 01, 2021, 04:40:12 PM
Mask evidence. Also seems like an interesting trial on the strategies they tested for increasing mask use. 

https://twitter.com/jabaluck/status/1433036923610742789?s=21 (https://twitter.com/jabaluck/status/1433036923610742789?s=21)

Sure, that sounds like "science," but counterpoint:

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1432728173293211650

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 01, 2021, 05:58:00 PM
Seriously, even freaking story like this is in Florida. I'm undecided if all the stupid is being magically drawn there, or people there are being radicalized. Probably a heavy mix of both.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on September 01, 2021, 06:10:10 PM
The morons are loose on Michigan, too.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 01, 2021, 06:50:41 PM
The morons are loose on Michigan, too.

It's anywhere naive, gullible and vulnerable people can get an internet connection and fall down a rabbit hole of QAnon, Pizzagate and other conspiracy theories that literally ruin lives and families.
There really ought to be a special place in hell for the Alex Jones, Ron Watkins and Michael Flynns of the world.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on September 01, 2021, 07:42:49 PM
It's anywhere naive, gullible and vulnerable people can get an internet connection and fall down a rabbit hole of QAnon, Pizzagate and other conspiracy theories that literally ruin lives and families.
There really ought to be a special place in hell for the Alex Jones, Ron Watkins and Michael Flynns of the world.

Even moreso the first 2 for me.  Their nonsense feels more parapolitical than anything else to me. I’ve always thought Alex Jones is playing an absurd character for his own financial gain at the expense of hundreds of thousands of lemmings.  Meanwhile, Watkins and his dad are worse cause they’ve always struck me as sociopaths who want to watch the world burn as opposed to actual radicalized political idealists
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on September 01, 2021, 08:01:30 PM
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1432728173293211650?s=20

MDs need to go back to school
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 01, 2021, 08:27:37 PM
One of my favorite comments on that thread is the guy who asked if this was the Crusades now.
She’s so Christian  but has no problem swearing🤣
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on September 01, 2021, 09:28:06 PM
It's anywhere naive, gullible and vulnerable people can get an internet connection and fall down a rabbit hole of QAnon, Pizzagate and other conspiracy theories that literally ruin lives and families.
There really ought to be a special place in hell for the Alex Jones, Ron Watkins and Michael Flynns of the world.


As exceptionally varied are opinions on Joe Rogan, here’s one thing we all now have to agree on: Joe Rogan does not have cow worms.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 01, 2021, 09:35:53 PM

As exceptionally varied are opinions on Joe Rogan, here’s one thing we all now have to agree on: Joe Rogan does not have cow worms.

What's a little ivermectin compared to the gallons of dianabol and HGH he's injected over the years?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 01, 2021, 09:40:33 PM
Mask evidence. Also seems like an interesting trial on the strategies they tested for increasing mask use. 

https://twitter.com/jabaluck/status/1433036923610742789?s=21 (https://twitter.com/jabaluck/status/1433036923610742789?s=21)

Not sure this study is the silver bullet needed to justify mask mandates of any sort.  Essentially says cloth masks are pointless and even surgical masks sowed no statistical improvement or advantage in people under 50?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUDPT on September 01, 2021, 10:16:03 PM
Not sure this study is the silver bullet needed to justify mask mandates of any sort.  Essentially says cloth masks are pointless and even surgical masks sowed no statistical improvement or advantage in people under 50?

You can read the paper here.  It says masks work and surgical work better then cloth.  https://www.poverty-action.org/sites/default/files/publications/Mask_RCT____Symptomatic_Seropositivity_083121.pdf
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on September 01, 2021, 10:18:16 PM
You can read the paper here.  It says masks work and surgical work better then cloth.  https://www.poverty-action.org/sites/default/files/publications/Mask_RCT____Symptomatic_Seropositivity_083121.pdf

He's not interested in information.

He hasn't changed a single stance of his from the beginning of covid regardless of data/evidence presented.

The goalposts will continue to move.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 01, 2021, 10:29:33 PM
You can read the paper here.  It says masks work and surgical work better then cloth.  https://www.poverty-action.org/sites/default/files/publications/Mask_RCT____Symptomatic_Seropositivity_083121.pdf

Thanks, I did.  Did you?

“No statistically significant decrease”
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 01, 2021, 10:32:03 PM
He's not interested in information.

He hasn't changed a single stance of his from the beginning of covid regardless of data/evidence presented.

The goalposts will continue to move.

Did you read the study?  Nothing I said was inaccurate if you actually read it.

And I’m the uninterested one?!?!?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 01, 2021, 10:37:30 PM
Thanks, I did.  Did you?

“No statistically significant decrease”

So, are making the case that mask mandates should require surgical masks, since they've been proven effective?
I'm all ears.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 01, 2021, 10:40:26 PM
So, are making the case that mask mandates should require surgical masks, since they've been proven effective?
I'm all ears.

Goodness, can you read?  That table I attached to the last post shows no statistical difference for people 50 and under who wore surgical masks numb nuts.  Just like my original post said.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 01, 2021, 11:37:51 PM
Goodness, can you read?  That table I attached to the last post shows no statistical difference for people 50 and under who wore surgical masks numb nuts.  Just like my original post said.

Uh oh. Somebody's triggered.
Of course, as is always the case, you're ignoring facts that don't suit your narrative.

The researchers emphasize that this reduction in infections was achieved with just 42% of people wearing masks. The effect of near-universal mask-wearing may be several times larger, they estimate. The increased protection from infection for older individuals, who are more at risk, is also significant.
“It would be a big mistake to infer from our paper that masks can only prevent 10% of infections,” says Abaluck. “We think what the results show is that masks are an incredibly powerful tool to reduce symptomatic COVID infections and particularly to reduce symptomatic COVID infections in the people who are most vulnerable to death or very serious illness.”


https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/in-first-randomized-study-shows-that-masks-reduce-covid-19-infections
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 02, 2021, 06:19:32 AM
Thanks, I did.  Did you?

“No statistically significant decrease”

You didn't read sh!t, or you can't comprehend it.  Stop looking to twitter clip chimps to explain things for you. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 02, 2021, 06:24:48 AM
You didn't read sh!t, or you can't comprehend it.  Stop looking to twitter clip chimps to explain things for you.

Now you’re projecting.  Pages 22-30 is the good stuff big boy.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 02, 2021, 06:26:24 AM

As exceptionally varied are opinions on Joe Rogan, here’s one thing we all now have to agree on: Joe Rogan does not have cow worms.

But he probably does have a ton of brain trauma.

Where we really went wrong as a society is when people started trusting a comedian who masquerades as an MMA fighter who masquerades as a pseudo-intellectual.

But then I look at his fervent audience and remember that Joe is literally the physical manifestation of internet culture.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on September 02, 2021, 06:35:53 AM
But he probably does have a ton of brain trauma.

Where we really went wrong as a society is when people started trusting a comedian who masquerades as an MMA fighter who masquerades as a pseudo-intellectual.

But then I look at his fervent audience and remember that Joe is literally the physical manifestation of internet culture.

Guy has concerns about the vaccine.

Then uses monoclonal antibodies that only have emergency use....

?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 02, 2021, 06:44:53 AM
Now you’re projecting.  Pages 22-30 is the good stuff big boy.

Again, I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you... But I'd better try or you'll have another tantrum.  I'll entitle this response, "How to get sh!t on, intellectually, in three acts"

ACT I

Quote
We found clear evidence that surgical masks are effective in reducing symptomatic seropreva-
lence of SARS-CoV-2; while cloth masks clearly reduce symptoms, we cannot reject that they have
zero or only a small impact on symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections (perhaps reducing symptoms
of other respiratory diseases). Additionally, we found evidence that surgical masks were no less
likely to be adopted than cloth masks (perhaps slightly more likely). Thus, surgical masks have
higher filtration efficiency, are cheaper, are consistently worn, and are better supported by our
evidence as tools to reduce COVID-19.

This means that surgical masks work better than cloth masks based on their data.

ACT II

Quote
Our results should not be taken to imply that masks can prevent only 10% of COVID-19 cases,
let alone 10% of COVID-19 mortality. Our intervention induced 29 more people out of every
100 to wear masks, with 42% of people wearing masks in total. The total impact with near-
universal masking–perhaps achievable with alternative strategies or stricter enforcement–may be
several times larger than our 10% estimate. Additionally, the intervention reduced symptomatic
seroprevalence more when surgical masks were used, and even more for the highest-risk individu-
als in our sample (23% for ages 50-60 and 35% for ages 60+). These numbers likely give a better
sense of the impact of our intervention on severe morbidity and mortality, since most of the disease
burden is borne by the elderly. Where achievable, universal mask adoption is likely to have still
larger impacts.

This says masks work.

ACT III

Quote
In summary, we found that mask distribution, role modeling, and promotion in a LMIC setting
increased mask-wearing and physical distancing, leading to lower illness, particularly in older
adults. We find stronger support for the use of surgical masks than cloth masks to prevent COVID-
19. Whether people with respiratory symptoms should generally wear masks to prevent respiratory
virus transmission—including for viruses other than SARS-CoV-2—is an important area for future
research. Our findings suggest that such a policy may benefit public health

In summary, I stand by my original comment.  You didn't read the study, couldn't understand it if you did, and you relied on a biased twitter thread for your information.  I'm truly shocked.

Just kidding.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 02, 2021, 06:47:44 AM
Guy has concerns about the vaccine.

Then uses monoclonal antibodies that only have emergency use....

?

Don't forget that he used a bunch of other garbage to attempt to give his previous beliefs credibility... So that when he feels better he can say 'they all helped'.  It's what intellectually dishonest people do all the time.

Realistically, monoclonal antibodies are amazing and that was all he probably needed.  But yes, it is nice to be able to get them... because you're wealthy.

He's an amazing example of a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on September 02, 2021, 08:30:41 AM
But he probably does have a ton of brain trauma.

Where we really went wrong as a society is when people started trusting a comedian who masquerades as an MMA fighter who masquerades as a pseudo-intellectual.

But then I look at his fervent audience and remember that Joe is literally the physical manifestation of internet culture.

COVID aside, Rogan’s biggest strengths are that he is inquisitive/curious about a lot of stuff, a good interviewer, and attempts to engage with his guests, even if he’s out of his depth.  It makes for entertaining listening and I’m sure is good conversation otherwise.  However, his rabid fans have somehow morphed that into him being some brilliant modern Davinci renaissance man. I enjoy him depending on the guest but the deification is kind of weird
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 02, 2021, 08:36:31 AM
Guy has concerns about the vaccine.

Then uses monoclonal antibodies that only have emergency use....

?

He has no vaccine worries. It’s all political posturing for his audience.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 02, 2021, 09:39:37 AM
He has no vaccine worries. It’s all political posturing for his audience.

It's not political with him.  You might find this hard to believe, but not everything is.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on September 02, 2021, 10:22:45 AM
It's not political with him.  You might find this hard to believe, but not everything is.

Yea, he's far more of a libertarian than some MAGA champion which his critics like to make him out to be.  Hell, he endorsed Bernie.  I don't agree with a lot of his COVID takes, but he's flat out said "if you want to get the vaccine, you should get the vaccine".  He's gotten a bit galaxy brained worrying about how hard the government/media is pushing it but he's far from some alt-right angled demon seed vax hater.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 02, 2021, 10:37:24 AM
Did you read the study?  Nothing I said was inaccurate if you actually read it.

And I’m the uninterested one?!?!?
(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/california-sea-lion-zanophus-vintage-images.jpg)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 02, 2021, 10:39:12 AM
Yea, he's far more of a libertarian than some MAGA champion which his critics like to make him out to be.  Hell, he endorsed Bernie.  I don't agree with a lot of his COVID takes, but he's flat out said "if you want to get the vaccine, you should get the vaccine".  He's gotten a bit galaxy brained worrying about how hard the government/media is pushing it but he's far from some alt-right angled demon seed vax hater.

I'm not a listener, so I have no particular thoughts on him one way or another.
But I do find it ironic that a straight white man who gets paid $100 million to talk to an audience of millions uses that platform to complain that straight white men aren't being allowed to talk.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: naginiF on September 02, 2021, 10:48:31 AM
I'm not a listener, so I have no particular thoughts on him one way or another.
But I do find it ironic that a straight white man who gets paid $100 million to talk to an audience of millions uses that platform to complain that straight white men aren't being allowed to talk.
I'm not a listener either but he strikes me as one prime example of American's equating fame/platform with intelligence/authority on any subject. He realizes this and positions many of his POVs to rile his listeners and/or play into their victimhood in order to make money..........he's a grifter.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on September 02, 2021, 11:09:25 AM
I'm not a listener, so I have no particular thoughts on him one way or another.
But I do find it ironic that a straight white man who gets paid $100 million to talk to an audience of millions uses that platform to complain that straight white men aren't being allowed to talk.

I'm not a Rogan fanatic, just want to put it out there, but I think the Devil's Advocate angle is, he comes from the comedy world where for a long time, you could say whatever you want as long as its funny.  And now that's no longer the case, right or wrong.  Its a little different than just feeling fragile and personally aggrieved.  It doesn't make it any less off base, but its a bit more nuanced.

I'm not a listener either but he strikes me as one prime example of American's equating fame/platform with intelligence/authority on any subject. He realizes this and positions many of his POVs to rile his listeners and/or play into their victimhood in order to make money..........he's a grifter.

I agree with your first part, but I think people overuse "grifter" these days.  I don't often get the impression he doesn't believe what he says and he's playing some schtick for money.  I do, however, think that he's got an inflated view of himself and his viewpoints and the intellectual force he feels he possesses...because of how people hang on his every word and view him as a tastemaking expert.  He feels he's super knowledgeable and right in his views, so he shares them often, and when people push back, he gets miffed and strikes out, which riles up his fanboys.  I honestly think he's authentic to a fault.  Cause he mixes some really good entertaining stuff with great guests with his wacky, "thought way too hard about this when I was high" nonsense.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 02, 2021, 11:20:25 AM
I'm not a Rogan fanatic, just want to put it out there, but I think the Devil's Advocate angle is, he comes from the comedy world where for a long time, you could say whatever you want as long as its funny.  And now that's no longer the case, right or wrong.  Its a little different than just feeling fragile and personally aggrieved.  It doesn't make it any less off base, but its a bit more nuanced.

I think it's more a matter that jokes made at the expense of others' race, ethnicity, gender, disability, etc., are no longer considered funny, in particular when the joke is made from a position of privilege (i.e. punching down vs punching up).
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 02, 2021, 11:54:54 AM
Yea, he's far more of a libertarian than some MAGA champion which his critics like to make him out to be.  Hell, he endorsed Bernie.  I don't agree with a lot of his COVID takes, but he's flat out said "if you want to get the vaccine, you should get the vaccine".  He's gotten a bit galaxy brained worrying about how hard the government/media is pushing it but he's far from some alt-right angled demon seed vax hater.

I never said he was MAGA. He goes for the same audience as all the FM radio shocks jocks. Pseudo-macho men. Still a very political audience.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: naginiF on September 02, 2021, 01:21:16 PM
I agree with your first part, but I think people overuse "grifter" these days.  I don't often get the impression he doesn't believe what he says and he's playing some schtick for money.  I do, however, think that he's got an inflated view of himself and his viewpoints and the intellectual force he feels he possesses...because of how people hang on his every word and view him as a tastemaking expert.  He feels he's super knowledgeable and right in his views, so he shares them often, and when people push back, he gets miffed and strikes out, which riles up his fanboys.  I honestly think he's authentic to a fault.  Cause he mixes some really good entertaining stuff with great guests with his wacky, "thought way too hard about this when I was high" nonsense.

We're in agreement on 95+%.

My use of 'grift' is because he directly benefits financially by riling up a large portion of his audience specifically in areas where they are susceptible to being mislead or riled up. In contrast to others (athletes for example) that do not directly benefit financially by using their platform.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 10, 2021, 09:11:31 AM
I never said he was MAGA. He goes for the same audience as all the FM radio shocks jocks. Pseudo-macho men. Still a very political audience.

At least rogan put his money where his mouth is when he was fighting. Unlike a lot of the other guys who talk big to rile people up.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on September 10, 2021, 09:33:32 AM
At least rogan put his money where his mouth is when he was fighting. Unlike a lot of the other guys who talk big to rile people up.

How did Rogan do that?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 10, 2021, 10:53:51 AM
How did Rogan do that?

vs someone like rush being a fat blob talking about how he'd like to hit (insert left leaning political figure) at least Rogan genuinely got in shape and trained to throw punches and what not. The general point that I was making was that a lot of radio psuedo macho guys are out of shape guys that talk big whereas Joe actually competed and trained etc.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on September 10, 2021, 11:26:27 AM
Between someone like rush being a fat blob talking about how he'd like to hit (insert left leaning political figure) at least Rogan genuinely got in shape and trained to throw punches and what not. The general point that I was making was that a lot of radio psuedo macho guys are out of shape guys that talk big whereas Joe actually competed and trained etc.

Not even "got into shape", he was a very accomplished martial artist in his youth, won a bunch of competitions and was a kickboxer for awhile.  As he got into MMA, he picked up multiple jujitsu black belts as an adult.

There is a reason Rogan does color commentary for MMA fights.  He's extremely knowledgeable and respected in and around the sport.  There are multiple fighters who have said his leg kicks are as strong and powerful as any pro.

You can say what you will about Rogan, and sure he is conscious that he is riling people up, but he's authentic to a fault.  Everything he repeatedly drones on about, topics he continually revists, he absolutely believes in and walks the walk to back the talk.  Doesn't mean he's right or some of those beliefs aren't moronic or looney, but he's much more authentic than most talking heads.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 10, 2021, 12:44:47 PM
At least rogan put his money where his mouth is when he was fighting. Unlike a lot of the other guys who talk big to rile people up.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 10, 2021, 12:55:39 PM
vs someone like rush being a fat blob talking about how he'd like to hit (insert left leaning political figure) at least Rogan genuinely got in shape and trained to throw punches and what not. The general point that I was making was that a lot of radio psuedo macho guys are out of shape guys that talk big whereas Joe actually competed and trained etc.

Better living through chemistry
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 11, 2021, 08:06:31 AM
The board of our county, the largest in NC, voted to eliminate the mask mandate exemption for houses of worship -- meaning people who attend indoor church services must comply with the same order covering everybody else. The change takes effect Sept. 22.

Some churches are responding appropriately, with a few even saying they would urge their congregations to wear masks starting this weekend, before the order even takes effect.

"Of course we will comply," said Lal Rodawla, assistant pastor at Providence Presbyterian Church in Charlotte. "This is a health crisis. We want to keep our congregation safe. This isn't an unreasonable request."

"We have been working hard to get our congregation vaccinated," said Judy Schindler, senior rabbi at Temple Beth El in Charlotte. "And we recognize this as another important step to protect our people. God helps those who help themselves."

Predictably, the loudest reactions have come from those who are "outraged" by the order.

"It's not the job of government to play God!" said David Bass, executive pastor at Carmel Baptist Church in Charlotte.

Penny Maxwell, a senior pastor at Freedom House Church, told her congregation in an Instagram post that “Mecklenburg County is messing with the wrong people,” and that, “Our lawyers are ready to go.”


Perfect!

(Quotes in above post culled from the Charlotte Observer.)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on September 11, 2021, 09:28:41 AM
Accurate
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 11, 2021, 11:15:05 AM
How on earth does mandating masks interfere with the right to worship?
How is that even remotely playing God?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 11, 2021, 11:32:37 AM
How on earth does mandating masks interfere with the right to worship?
How is that even remotely playing God?

Part of the War on Xmas. Duh!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 11, 2021, 03:29:49 PM
So it is just the whitey, white christian churches that are fighting back?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 11, 2021, 04:42:10 PM
So it is just the whitey, white christian churches that are fighting back?

I don't know enough about the make-up of the churches, and it wasn't as if there was a survey or anything.

 I will take a wild stab that the Temple Beth El, whose rabbi said they will comply, has a mostly white congregation!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on September 11, 2021, 05:09:27 PM
So it is just the whitey, white christian churches that are fighting back?

says the gate keeper of racism??
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on September 13, 2021, 09:07:02 AM
Thoughts and prayers!
https://twitter.com/Roshan_Rinaldi/status/1437389432584298498?s=20
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 13, 2021, 10:02:22 AM
Thoughts and prayers!
https://twitter.com/Roshan_Rinaldi/status/1437389432584298498?s=20
Sow. Reap.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 13, 2021, 10:38:50 AM
Thoughts and prayers!
https://twitter.com/Roshan_Rinaldi/status/1437389432584298498?s=20

Does Covid get an "I closed wolski's" sticker for taking her down?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on September 13, 2021, 11:22:48 AM
She showed us.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 13, 2021, 11:59:42 AM
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/covid-patient-at-center-of-ivermectin-debate-dies-at-chicago-area-hospital/2611024/

She used to hang banners over the Kennedy about Covid. I heard on the radio that Lin Wood is now stating that the hospital killed her because of its refusal to give her Ivermectin.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on September 13, 2021, 12:05:45 PM
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/covid-patient-at-center-of-ivermectin-debate-dies-at-chicago-area-hospital/2611024/

She used to hang banners over the Kennedy about Covid. I heard on the radio that Lin Wood is now stating that the hospital killed her because of its refusal to give her Ivermectin.

Yeah, Wood put out videos of himself calling a threatening the hospital for not administering Ivermectin. Just amazing stuff.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on September 13, 2021, 03:25:32 PM
Does Covid get an "I closed wolski's" sticker for taking her down?
how has nobody remarked on how good this was?

This was very good.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on September 13, 2021, 03:30:41 PM
Props. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 13, 2021, 05:25:13 PM
how has nobody remarked on how good this was?

This was very good.

Thanks, thought it would get some applause so very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on September 13, 2021, 10:03:07 PM
Covid kills Pastor Bob Enyart who sued Colorado over mask mandates & capacity limits

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/09/13/bob-enyart-dies-covid-19/

On his old TV show, Bob Enyart Live, the host would “gleefully read obituaries of AIDS sufferers while cranking ‘Another One Bites the Dust’ by Queen,” Westword reported.

WWJD indeed.

Let’s find comfort from the holy scriptures. Turn to Galatians 6:7.



Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 13, 2021, 11:27:51 PM
Covid kills Pastor Bob Enyart who sued Colorado over mask mandates & capacity limits

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/09/13/bob-enyart-dies-covid-19/

On his old TV show, Bob Enyart Live, the host would “gleefully read obituaries of AIDS sufferers while cranking ‘Another One Bites the Dust’ by Queen,” Westword reported

Hmm. Maybe there is a god.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 14, 2021, 09:24:15 AM
Covid kills Pastor Bob Enyart who sued Colorado over mask mandates & capacity limits

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/09/13/bob-enyart-dies-covid-19/

On his old TV show, Bob Enyart Live, the host would “gleefully read obituaries of AIDS sufferers while cranking ‘Another One Bites the Dust’ by Queen,” Westword reported.

WWJD indeed.

Let’s find comfort from the holy scriptures. Turn to Galatians 6:7.

This just gave me an idea for a TV similar show with a different virus. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on September 14, 2021, 10:34:55 AM
This just gave me an idea for a TV similar show with a different virus.

Like Dexter, except COVID takes the form of a tall dark and handsome man (like the dude from Lucifer) who stabs anti-vaxxers and Karens in the neck with a syringe.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 14, 2021, 10:56:24 AM
Covid kills Pastor Bob Enyart who sued Colorado over mask mandates & capacity limits

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/09/13/bob-enyart-dies-covid-19/

On his old TV show, Bob Enyart Live, the host would “gleefully read obituaries of AIDS sufferers while cranking ‘Another One Bites the Dust’ by Queen,” Westword reported.

WWJD indeed.

Let’s find comfort from the holy scriptures. Turn to Galatians 6:7.

Can we get a volunteer to organize a Scoop "Dance on your Grave" party to honor this man?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 14, 2021, 11:16:10 AM
Wow. I did not know about that show.
I don’t think I can even muster thoughts, much less prayers.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 14, 2021, 11:26:22 AM
Anti-maskers in the Chicago suburb Glen Ellyn are confronting kids and parents as they walk into school because of their school district's mask mandate.
These f*cking people ...

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/illinoisplaybook
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 14, 2021, 11:38:22 AM
Anti-maskers in the Chicago suburb Glen Ellyn are confronting kids and parents as they walk into school because of their school district's mask mandate.
These f*cking people ...

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/illinoisplaybook

A-holes.

Wow. I did not know about that show.
I don’t think I can even muster thoughts, much less prayers.

Yeah, I'm not big on celebrating the death of people. It's immoral, and also bad karma. And yet, it's hard to feel too sorry for a guy like that. He was a truly reprehensible human being.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 14, 2021, 11:42:22 AM
Not celebrating. Just don’t care.
Re: Glen Ellyn protests - why am I not surprised Jeanne Ives is promoting it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on September 14, 2021, 11:57:02 AM
There is no bottom.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 14, 2021, 12:23:44 PM
Re: Glen Ellyn protests - why am I not surprised Jeanne Ives is promoting it.

Might be because she's not a good person.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 14, 2021, 01:54:30 PM
Can we get a volunteer to organize a Scoop "Dance on your Grave" party to honor this man?

That's your area.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: dgies9156 on September 14, 2021, 11:50:36 PM
Let me lay out a theory about masks.

I hate them and wish they would go away. I honor mask mandates in Illinois but I think we're protecting the STUPID!!!

In Illinois, Florida and most other states in this country, between 60 percent and 65 percent of the population has been fully vaccinated. The statistics indicate this cohort, if it contracts Covid-19, almost universally has mild cold-like symptoms for a day or two. The virus is defeated and the appropriately vaccinated goes on with life.

The idiot cohort is the bulk of the remaining population. These morons refuse to get vaccinated on some suspicious grounds, even though the vaccine is free, readily available and generally convenient. In most cases, if you can't come to the vaccine, counties, cities and states will bring the vaccine almost to your doorstep. These unvaccinated dopes are filling our ICUs to the gills, crowding out other patients with serious illness and generally causing havoc. Pick your state -- the Delta variant of Covid-19 almost exclusively is making the unvaccinated moron sick.

We need to tell people that come November 1, no more mask mandates. All Covid-19 related disease control steps are gone. You can wear a mask in public if you want -- your right. But we expect people to get vaccinations and we're through coddling the idiots. You want to be unvaccinated because of stupid political beliefs or uninformed internet crap, plan on spending a lot of time at home because society will be asking for an electronic vaccination certificate. If you get sick, we'll reopen some closed hospitals and send you to a Covid-19 sanitorium. Mandatory, like the old TB hospitals.

I'm not a big fan of President Biden but his order that employers who have 100 or more employees have to have vaccinated workforces is spot on. If we have to take the stupid and all but shove the vaccine down their throats, then do it. Most of us are tired of this crap and believe the debilitating impact has to go away.

 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on September 15, 2021, 08:02:38 AM
Let me lay out a theory about masks.

I hate them and wish they would go away. I honor mask mandates in Illinois but I think we're protecting the STUPID!!!

In Illinois, Florida and most other states in this country, between 60 percent and 65 percent of the population has been fully vaccinated. The statistics indicate this cohort, if it contracts Covid-19, almost universally has mild cold-like symptoms for a day or two. The virus is defeated and the appropriately vaccinated goes on with life.

The idiot cohort is the bulk of the remaining population. These morons refuse to get vaccinated on some suspicious grounds, even though the vaccine is free, readily available and generally convenient. In most cases, if you can't come to the vaccine, counties, cities and states will bring the vaccine almost to your doorstep. These unvaccinated dopes are filling our ICUs to the gills, crowding out other patients with serious illness and generally causing havoc. Pick your state -- the Delta variant of Covid-19 almost exclusively is making the unvaccinated moron sick.

We need to tell people that come November 1, no more mask mandates. All Covid-19 related disease control steps are gone. You can wear a mask in public if you want -- your right. But we expect people to get vaccinations and we're through coddling the idiots. You want to be unvaccinated because of stupid political beliefs or uninformed internet crap, plan on spending a lot of time at home because society will be asking for an electronic vaccination certificate. If you get sick, we'll reopen some closed hospitals and send you to a Covid-19 sanitorium. Mandatory, like the old TB hospitals.

I'm not a big fan of President Biden but his order that employers who have 100 or more employees have to have vaccinated workforces is spot on. If we have to take the stupid and all but shove the vaccine down their throats, then do it. Most of us are tired of this crap and believe the debilitating impact has to go away.

 

All those 12 and under dopes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: dgies9156 on September 15, 2021, 08:07:48 AM
All those 12 and under dopes.

What is the percentage of hospitalizations and deaths attributable to the 12 and under population? I get it is higher than it was but it is extremely small.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on September 15, 2021, 08:31:54 AM
What is the percentage of hospitalizations and deaths attributable to the 12 and under population? I get it is higher than it was but it is extremely small.

Yes, but those 12 and under go home and infect family. I have a friend, prior COVID and vaccinated, currently hospitalized because their child (under 12) got COVID at school (no mask mandate) and brought it home.

They have prior health issues (e.g. autoimmune disease, and asthma) that makes them more vulnerable.

The mask mandates protect these people too.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on September 15, 2021, 08:49:11 AM
What is the percentage of hospitalizations and deaths attributable to the 12 and under population? I get it is higher than it was but it is extremely small.

So we're all good with defaulting on the margin children? COVID is defeated.

Maybe instead, wear a unnatural carnal knowledgeing mask, stop being a selfish pretty boy until the vaccine is available for everyone.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: dgies9156 on September 15, 2021, 09:19:08 AM
Gang

You are doing what disappoints me in the Covid-19 debate from every side since the onset of the disease. We're picking an anecdote or a possibility with no statistical support (the inevitable "what if..." question) and building public policy around what seems to be the extreme.

What I do for a living and what I've been trained to do in my profession is to follow data. I expect data driven decisions with strong probability analyses and good assessments of current market conditions. Admittedly, emotions and politics have largely engulfed critical, rational thinking.

The data and reporting I've seen since the onset of Covid-19 says the impact of the virus on the 12-and-under crowd is very negligible. In the Chicago Catholic School System, they met in person and there, to my knowledge, was no material outbreak of Covid-19 among either the students or teachers. Everybody screams about Florida as of late. I'd sure like to see where the outbreak is occurring -- whether it is 12-and-under set or whether it's the unvaccinated morons. Until such data is available, everything is speculation. In my case, I default toward the mean and look 1 standard deviation to the left or right. That's something we have not seen in this pandemic.

And incidentally, when someone comes out with the "it will kill us all" models, I'd sure like to see someone validate the assumptions that went into those models. That and a sensitivity analysis around the most critical variables.

I'd sure like to see the vaccine for 12-and-under as well.

Finally, Brother Retire0, I'm honored that you would consider me a pretty boy!  Maybe it's because you have never seen me in person!

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on September 15, 2021, 09:42:04 AM


Finally, Brother Retire0, I'm honored that you would consider me a pretty boy!  Maybe it's because you have never seen me in person!



That was not directed at you, just the general idiots that fight masks and vaccines.

I don't believe the pandemic is over for the vaccinated until everyone can be vaccinated. Data be damned, everyone American needs access before we claim mission accomplished. I'm vaccinated, but still dealing with outbreaks at schools. The virus is still a very real thing for those vaccinated with children.

(https://c.tenor.com/isrmdo9Xr9EAAAAC/mission-accomplished.gif)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: dgies9156 on September 15, 2021, 10:20:37 AM
That was not directed at you, just the general idiots that fight masks and vaccines.
(https://c.tenor.com/isrmdo9Xr9EAAAAC/mission-accomplished.gif)

I went from pretty boy to idiot!

Here's the reality: We're never going to have 100 percent. And Covid-19 is never going away either. Smallpox, mumps, polio etc., all have unvaccinated pockets of idiots running around the country. The virus doesn't go away but hopefully enough people will get vaccinated that the problem is minimal.

Where I respectfully disagree with you is that I believe, for what it's worth, we're going to have to live with Covid-19 the way we do with other viruses. We can't lock the country down and at some point, people will tire of the emergency actions. I think the tiring point is coming soon, if it is not here already. I agree that we're going to have to make decisions on vaccinating school-age children but at some point, we need to develop a break point.

We need desperately to get back to normal.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 15, 2021, 10:23:50 AM
I went from pretty boy to idiot!

Here's the reality: We're never going to have 100 percent. And Covid-19 is never going away either. Smallpox, mumps, polio etc., all have unvaccinated pockets of idiots running around the country. The virus doesn't go away but hopefully enough people will get vaccinated that the problem is minimal.

Where I respectfully disagree with you is that I believe, for what it's worth, we're going to have to live with Covid-19 the way we do with other viruses. We can't lock the country down and at some point, people will tire of the emergency actions. I think the tiring point is coming soon, if it is not here already. I agree that we're going to have to make decisions on vaccinating school-age children but at some point, we need to develop a break point.

We need desperately to get back to normal.

Ill agree with you once a decent vaccine for kids is made.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 15, 2021, 11:00:32 AM
I went from pretty boy to idiot!

Here's the reality: We're never going to have 100 percent. And Covid-19 is never going away either. Smallpox, mumps, polio etc., all have unvaccinated pockets of idiots running around the country. The virus doesn't go away but hopefully enough people will get vaccinated that the problem is minimal.
Small quibble, we have a lot of unvaccinated smallpox people running around because the vaccine is no longer given--because smallpox was eradicated.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 15, 2021, 11:01:40 AM
We need desperately to get back to normal.

When you say something like this, I wonder why you find wearing a mask in public indoor spaces to be some affront to the "normal," but not overflowing ICUs, health care rationing and thousands of excess deaths a day? Are these things normal to you?

We agree on the need to get back to normal, but the path back to normality is controlling the virus, not pretending it doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: dgies9156 on September 15, 2021, 11:15:23 AM
When you say something like this, I wonder why you find wearing a mask in public indoor spaces to be some affront to the "normal," but not overflowing ICUs, health care rationing and thousands of excess deaths a day? Are these things normal to you?

We agree on the need to get back to normal, but the path back to normality is controlling the virus, not pretending it doesn't exist.

Brother Pakuni:

Normal is getting a frickin vaccine!

Quantify how much of the current health care problem is due to the under 12-set and how much is due to idiots whose political, social or internet reading has misguided them into putting their damn head in the sand and not getting vaccinated? I'll bet you two seats at future Marquette game that the vast majority of the problem is the latter and is stupidity driven!!!!!!

It is an insult to our country that between 35 percent and 40 percent of our country is unvaccinated. At some point, these idiots need to stay home and bunker down while the rest of us go about our normal lives.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 15, 2021, 11:20:05 AM

It is an insult to our country that between 35 percent and 40 percent of our country is unvaccinated. At some point, these idiots need to stay home and bunker down while the rest of us go about our normal lives.

They don't care that they insult you, me and our country. Indeed, it seems they rather enjoy it. Have you listened to the anti-vax politicians rail on about the indignity of the "Fauci Ouchie"?

They are the ones who absolutely will not bunker down just because they should.

Unless, of course, they are forced to because every employer, every entertainment venue, every grocery store, every restaurant, every school, every everything mandates the vaccine. Even then, they'll probably cheat and get fake documentation, but at least they'd have to work for it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on September 15, 2021, 11:22:22 AM
Mask your kids.   And, following the science, I believe that in a couple of years that COVID will be all but defeated and that there will be far more effective treatments for the infected.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on September 15, 2021, 11:24:12 AM
Gang

You are doing what disappoints me in the Covid-19 debate from every side since the onset of the disease. We're picking an anecdote or a possibility with no statistical support (the inevitable "what if..." question) and building public policy around what seems to be the extreme.

What I do for a living and what I've been trained to do in my profession is to follow data. I expect data driven decisions with strong probability analyses and good assessments of current market conditions. Admittedly, emotions and politics have largely engulfed critical, rational thinking.

The data and reporting I've seen since the onset of Covid-19 says the impact of the virus on the 12-and-under crowd is very negligible. In the Chicago Catholic School System, they met in person and there, to my knowledge, was no material outbreak of Covid-19 among either the students or teachers. Everybody screams about Florida as of late. I'd sure like to see where the outbreak is occurring -- whether it is 12-and-under set or whether it's the unvaccinated morons.]I'd sure like to see where the outbreak is occurring -- whether it is 12-and-under set or whether it's the unvaccinated morons. Until such data is available, everything is speculation. In my case, I default toward the mean and look 1 standard deviation to the left or right. That's something we have not seen in this pandemic.

And incidentally, when someone comes out with the "it will kill us all" models, I'd sure like to see someone validate the assumptions that went into those models. That and a sensitivity analysis around the most critical variables.

I'd sure like to see the vaccine for 12-and-under as well.

Finally, Brother Retire0, I'm honored that you would consider me a pretty boy!  Maybe it's because you have never seen me in person!

The outbreak is known to be originating and propagating in schools. The wave of infections in Florida and TX occurred in conjunction with two things, end of summer trips, and school starting (no masks). That caused a rapid rise in infections in school aged children who then propagated it through entire families (both vaccinated and unvaccinated).

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-schools-positive-pediatric-covid-19-cases/
 (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-schools-positive-pediatric-covid-19-cases/)

https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/covid-19-impacting-children-teens-more-than-any-other-age-group-in-florida/ (https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/covid-19-impacting-children-teens-more-than-any-other-age-group-in-florida/)

https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-child-hospitalizations-at-68-per-day-as-childrens-hospitals-under-an-unprecedented-strain/ (https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-child-hospitalizations-at-68-per-day-as-childrens-hospitals-under-an-unprecedented-strain/)

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/12/1036387346/more-public-school-students-are-getting-covid-in-texas-as-fights-over-masks-ensu (https://www.npr.org/2021/09/12/1036387346/more-public-school-students-are-getting-covid-in-texas-as-fights-over-masks-ensu)

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/300-kids-have-tested-positive-for-covid-19-in-the-last-24-hours/285-ce0b546d-8f85-4fa5-bc9d-9052bf7db6c4 (https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/300-kids-have-tested-positive-for-covid-19-in-the-last-24-hours/285-ce0b546d-8f85-4fa5-bc9d-9052bf7db6c4)

So with all due respect, you are not following the data at this point. Infections amongst unvaccinated children are driving the current surge, and overwhelming hospitals, both in children and adults.

I agree with you that we need mandates on vaccines for everyone (where it is approved), but until it available in children, we will not be returning to normal. Further, all those against masks, and vaccines are providing a breeding ground for more variants that are even more infectious and which may evade our current vaccines.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on September 15, 2021, 12:01:55 PM
I went from pretty boy to idiot!

Here's the reality: We're never going to have 100 percent. And Covid-19 is never going away either. Smallpox, mumps, polio etc., all have unvaccinated pockets of idiots running around the country. The virus doesn't go away but hopefully enough people will get vaccinated that the problem is minimal.

Where I respectfully disagree with you is that I believe, for what it's worth, we're going to have to live with Covid-19 the way we do with other viruses. We can't lock the country down and at some point, people will tire of the emergency actions. I think the tiring point is coming soon, if it is not here already. I agree that we're going to have to make decisions on vaccinating school-age children but at some point, we need to develop a break point.

We need desperately to get back to normal.

You're vaccinated, it's not directed at you.

School kids get vaccinated and I'm 100% with your thoughts.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mix it up on September 15, 2021, 12:20:44 PM
Does Covid get an "I closed wolski's" sticker for taking her down?

The winner! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on September 15, 2021, 12:29:05 PM
What I do for a living and what I've been trained to do in my profession is to follow data. I expect data driven decisions with strong probability analyses and good assessments of current market conditions. Admittedly, emotions and politics have largely engulfed critical, rational thinking.

The data and reporting I've seen since the onset of Covid-19 says the impact of the virus on the 12-and-under crowd is very negligible. In the Chicago Catholic School System, they met in person and there, to my knowledge, was no material outbreak of Covid-19 among either the students or teachers. Everybody screams about Florida as of late. I'd sure like to see where the outbreak is occurring -- whether it is 12-and-under set or whether it's the unvaccinated morons. Until such data is available, everything is speculation.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime (https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime)

Nationwide data if you want it.

And new hospitalization data. Look at what happened end of summer/early school year for 0-17 data (especially in the southern states).

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions
 (https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions)

Or compare Florida (no masks in schools) to any of the states that did mandate masks.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: dgies9156 on September 15, 2021, 01:40:45 PM
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime (https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime)

Nationwide data if you want it.

And new hospitalization data. Look at what happened end of summer/early school year for 0-17 data (especially in the southern states).

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions
 (https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions)

Or compare Florida (no masks in schools) to any of the states that did mandate masks.

OK, but of you look at the national statistics in August, when they spiked, and compare them to now, you have a very different picture. For the week of 9/11 and 9/18, the spikes tailed off and the surge is much, much less, including young children.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jfmu on September 15, 2021, 02:15:09 PM
When you say something like this, I wonder why you find wearing a mask in public indoor spaces to be some affront to the "normal," but not overflowing ICUs, health care rationing and thousands of excess deaths a day? Are these things normal to you?

We agree on the need to get back to normal, but the path back to normality is controlling the virus, not pretending it doesn't exist.

You know the ICUs are actually flooded due to covid, right?

https://www.dph.illinois.gov/covid19/hospitalization-utilization

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 15, 2021, 02:16:23 PM
Brother Pakuni:

Normal is getting a frickin vaccine!

Quantify how much of the current health care problem is due to the under 12-set and how much is due to idiots whose political, social or internet reading has misguided them into putting their damn head in the sand and not getting vaccinated? I'll bet you two seats at future Marquette game that the vast majority of the problem is the latter and is stupidity driven!!!!!!

It is an insult to our country that between 35 percent and 40 percent of our country is unvaccinated. At some point, these idiots need to stay home and bunker down while the rest of us go about our normal lives.

Brother d,

We agree on all this, but none of it answers what I asked. Why do you consider occasional mask wearing an affront to the normal, but not any of the other things I mentioned (i.e. overwhelmed ICUs, thousands of deaths, etc.).
Is what you're saying is that you want to get back to yournormal?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 15, 2021, 02:17:26 PM
You know the ICUs are actually flooded due to covid, right?

https://www.dph.illinois.gov/covid19/hospitalization-utilization

Huh?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 15, 2021, 04:30:53 PM
Today’s paper said that far southern Illinois has no ICU beds open.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jfmu on September 16, 2021, 02:30:13 AM
Huh?

Typo. Should have said “aren’t”.

There’s this narrative that the ICUs are flooded with Covid patients but if you look at the link the overwhelming amount of beds are not with covid patients (in Illinois). I’m using Illinois bc that’s one place where they actually have the breakdown to see. You can also see the amount of icu beds has dropped since the beginning of the pandemic.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 16, 2021, 05:06:46 AM
Sweden update.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/swedens-pandemic-experiment?utm_campaign=falcon&utm_source=facebook&utm_brand=tny&mbid=social_facebook&utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=cm_paid_social_tny_paid_content_broad_swedens-pandemic-experiment&utm_social-type=paid&utm_brand=thenewyorker&fbclid=IwAR1KqedVEMwmxpPcRECQzv1BXvgq-5Jr1c5L9sGbpQklkudvBp-5X2PobLY
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 16, 2021, 06:06:36 AM
Typo. Should have said “aren’t”.

There’s this narrative that the ICUs are flooded with Covid patients but if you look at the link the overwhelming amount of beds are not with covid patients (in Illinois). I’m using Illinois bc that’s one place where they actually have the breakdown to see. You can also see the amount of icu beds has dropped since the beginning of the pandemic.

The issue is that we need our icu beds.  They aren’t just sitting there open and waiting, people have disease that requires hospital care. 

So yeah covid isn’t all the beds but it is the reason we are forced to and above capacity.  Also this isn’t a narrative, it’s happening in hot spots.  It’s not happening in areas that aren’t hot spots for the reason you describe…they are handling it with the capacity available. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 16, 2021, 07:23:01 AM
This ain't gonna go over big in South Cackalacky ...

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/college/article254271153.html?

Masks will be required at South Carolina’s Williams-Brice Stadium due to Columbia’s citywide mask mandate.

In an email sent to students Wednesday, the university said that Williams-Brice Stadium falls under the “crowded outdoor spaces” guideline in the mask mandate enacted on Sept. 8. The ordinance is in effect for 30 days.

USC’s email to students notes that the “City of Columbia is solely responsible” for enforcing the mandate. Those not wearing masks can be fined up to $100.

The email was initially shared to social media by The Daily Gamecock and was confirmed by a USC spokesperson.

Last week, more people were hospitalized in South Carolina from COVID-19 than at any point since the virus hit last March, according to data from the state’s Department of Health and Environmental Control. From Sept. 4-10, DHEC reported 30,757 new cases of COVID-19, an average of about 4,394 cases a day.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on September 16, 2021, 08:50:04 AM
That Sweden article is from April.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 16, 2021, 08:51:49 AM
That Sweden article is from April.

 :o

Sorry. No idea why it was on my FB newsfeed this AM. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 16, 2021, 09:05:16 AM
Typo. Should have said “aren’t”.

There’s this narrative that the ICUs are flooded with Covid patients but if you look at the link the overwhelming amount of beds are not with covid patients (in Illinois). I’m using Illinois bc that’s one place where they actually have the breakdown to see. You can also see the amount of icu beds has dropped since the beginning of the pandemic.

On the other hand ...


An Illinois region reported Monday and Tuesday that it ran out of intensive care unit beds, a milestone that has meant delayed surgeries and, in some cases, longer waits for appropriate care.
In the latest Illinois Department of Public Health count released Tuesday, the state’s southern region reported that, overnight Monday, its hospitals had no available ICU beds in an area that includes roughly 400,000 people. As of Tuesday morning, 19 hospitals in that region still had zero open ICU beds, said Arien Herrmann, regional hospital coordinating center manager for the area.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-zero-icu-beds-covid-20210915-k672qydhsfbqfpmg52yyjpv2wy-story.html

But yes, unlike some southern parts of the state (and country), ICUs are not being overwhelmed in northern Illinois.
I wonder why that is.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jfmu on September 16, 2021, 09:08:07 AM
The issue is that we need our icu beds.  They aren’t just sitting there open and waiting, people have disease that requires hospital care. 

So yeah covid isn’t all the beds but it is the reason we are forced to and above capacity.  Also this isn’t a narrative, it’s happening in hot spots.  It’s not happening in areas that aren’t hot spots for the reason you describe…they are handling it with the capacity available.

I understand but that's not the way these arguments are being framed. The general population is acting like hospitals don't normally run their ICUs at high capacity.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jfmu on September 16, 2021, 09:12:13 AM
On the other hand ...


An Illinois region reported Monday and Tuesday that it ran out of intensive care unit beds, a milestone that has meant delayed surgeries and, in some cases, longer waits for appropriate care.
In the latest Illinois Department of Public Health count released Tuesday, the state’s southern region reported that, overnight Monday, its hospitals had no available ICU beds in an area that includes roughly 400,000 people. As of Tuesday morning, 19 hospitals in that region still had zero open ICU beds, said Arien Herrmann, regional hospital coordinating center manager for the area.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-zero-icu-beds-covid-20210915-k672qydhsfbqfpmg52yyjpv2wy-story.html

But yes, unlike some southern parts of the state (and country), ICUs are not being overwhelmed in northern Illinois.
I wonder why that is.

Got it...Let's continue to make a big deal that all 87 of the ICU beds in Region 5 of Illinois are utilized. Especially when you have no idea the breakdown...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 16, 2021, 09:19:31 AM
I understand but that's not the way these arguments are being framed. The general population is acting like hospitals don't normally run their ICUs at high capacity.

Ahh got it.  My guess is its because people can't handle complexity.  I've heard people say things like 'we're supposed to use our hospital capacity' and I just shake my head because you are right -- people don't understand that we already do.

Maybe everyone should binge ER for a month to remind themselves how busy the ED/ICU usually is :)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 16, 2021, 09:59:04 AM
Got it...Let's continue to make a big deal that all 87 of the ICU beds in Region 5 of Illinois are utilized. Especially when you have no idea the breakdown...

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Is it your belief that ICU beds in southern Illinois are filling up with non-COVID patients? That'd be a pretty astounding coincidence, don't you think?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jfmu on September 16, 2021, 10:09:37 AM
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Is it your belief that ICU beds in southern Illinois are filling up with non-COVID patients? That'd be a pretty astounding coincidence, don't you think?

What I'm getting at is that its likely the greater majority are non-covid. Even if its half covid that's double the Illinois rate currently.

There's also a total of 87 ICU beds in the region that's currently out of ICU beds. You article mentioned 400,000 people in the area.

If you want to have the argument that as an area/state/country we don't have enough ICU beds, that's fine. But sounding the alarm that 87 ICU beds for a place with 400,000 people is a little much.

Before looking into it i was surprised that the entire state if illinois has just over 3,000 ICU beds.

I get it - it sucks but the hyperbole from both sides of the covid environment need to relax. We just need to move on and get back to normal...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 16, 2021, 10:41:23 AM

If you want to have the argument that as an area/state/country we don't have enough ICU beds, that's fine. But sounding the alarm that 87 ICU beds for a place with 400,000 people is a little much.


...unless you live in that area.

Honestly we haven't proved anywhere yet that we can not impact quality of care or capacity....thus the need for mitigation.  The high vax states this summer may have found the balance (will be tested this winter).

Should that not be reported so people can 'relax and get back to normal'? That hasnt worked out for every place in the last three months that have epidemics that have over-filled their hospitals.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 16, 2021, 12:11:04 PM
Typo. Should have said “aren’t”.

There’s this narrative that the ICUs are flooded with Covid patients but if you look at the link the overwhelming amount of beds are not with covid patients (in Illinois). I’m using Illinois bc that’s one place where they actually have the breakdown to see. You can also see the amount of icu beds has dropped since the beginning of the pandemic.

Wisconsin does a pretty good job of breaking down who is in the ICU right now.

Currently in whole state ICU beds are 94% occupied with 75% of those not having Covid.  Throw in maybe 5% of the Patients categorized as Covid positive but in the ICU for primarily other reasons that puts the ICU census around 80% of non-Covid which is around the normal avg.  The additional 15% occupancy from Covid patients certainly stresses those teams a little more because of isolation/PPE protocols that need to followed but like you said these units are always jam packed which is why it’s rare to see a nurse who spends decades at the bedside in an ICU environment, high stress always!!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on September 16, 2021, 12:20:00 PM
Wisconsin does a pretty good job of breaking down who is in the ICU right now.

Currently in whole state ICU beds are 94% occupied with 75% of those not having Covid.  Throw in maybe 5% of the Patients categorized as Covid positive but in the ICU for primarily other reasons that puts the ICU census around 80% of non-Covid which is around the normal avg.  The additional 15% occupancy from Covid patients certainly stresses those teams a little more because of isolation/PPE protocols that need to followed but like you said these units are always jam packed which is why it’s rare to see a nurse who spends decades at the bedside in an ICU environment, high stress always!!


There are about 1,360 ICU beds in the state, and as of two days ago, are occupied by 320 Covid patients.  That's 23.5%.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on September 16, 2021, 01:09:00 PM
I don't get this argument of "most of the ICU beds are occupied by other things than COVID so people are over-reacting".

A single illness never takes up over 20% of ICU beds. That is unheard of and is a massive deal leading to people dying because they can't get a bed.

If over 20% of ICU beds were due to food poisoning, or a chickenpox outbreak...it would be national catastrophic news, and the entire nation would be undergoing special protocols to stem the tide.

I don't get the mindset of the people that push this narrative. It is a huge deal and is being reported as such. We need to do everything we can to mitigate further spread and stress on the system.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 16, 2021, 01:26:49 PM

There are about 1,360 ICU beds in the state, and as of two days ago, are occupied by 320 Covid patients.  That's 23.5%.

Right….so 75% non Covid, like I said
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on September 16, 2021, 01:39:32 PM
Right….so 75% non Covid, like I said

Now how does that affect staffing and resources?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 16, 2021, 02:10:22 PM
Now how does that affect staffing and resources?

It affects both as you would imagine, the good news is that hospitals now know what resources it takes to care for a Covid patient so it’s a little more predictable and they can plan for it.

The bigger concern I’m hearing from hospital administrators is the unknown percentage of there workforce that will quit/fired once the vaccine mandates go into place and how that will affect their health systems ability to handle the inevitable fall surge.  Some are estimating 1% while others are fearing as much as 10% would leave during a time where nursing shortages are being felt at all levels and corners of the country.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 16, 2021, 02:33:23 PM
It affects both as you would imagine, the good news is that hospitals now know what resources it takes to care for a Covid patient so it’s a little more predictable and they can plan for it.

The bigger concern I’m hearing from hospital administrators is the unknown percentage of there workforce that will quit/fired once the vaccine mandates go into place and how that will affect their health systems ability to handle the inevitable fall surge.  Some are estimating 1% while others are fearing as much as 10% would leave during a time where nursing shortages are being felt at all levels and corners of the country.

If United Airlines' experience is any indication, it's probably nothing to worry about.


@AllisonLHedges
United Airlines says almost 90% of its workers have been vaccinated since the airline instituted a company-wide mandate last month, and CEO Scott Kirby says resignations over the mandate are "in single digits."
https://twitter.com/AllisonLHedges/status/1438470178304663558
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warrior2008 on September 16, 2021, 02:45:17 PM
I don't get this argument of "most of the ICU beds are occupied by other things than COVID so people are over-reacting".

A single illness never takes up over 20% of ICU beds. That is unheard of and is a massive deal leading to people dying because they can't get a bed.

If over 20% of ICU beds were due to food poisoning, or a chickenpox outbreak...it would be national catastrophic news, and the entire nation would be undergoing special protocols to stem the tide.

I don't get the mindset of the people that push this narrative. It is a huge deal and is being reported as such. We need to do everything we can to mitigate further spread and stress on the system.

What's even more annoying are people who have never spent a day working in a hospital who assume all ICU beds are equal, they aren't.  States list the total number of ICU beds, but hospitals separate general ICU's where sick people might go from other ICU's like cardiac, surgical, trauma, pediatric, etc.  You don't want your recovering hip surgery patient in a SICU coming down with a nosocomial infection because they were sharing the same staff as a covid patient.  You can't put an adult covid patient on a ventilator in a NICU just because there is an available staffed ICU bed.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 16, 2021, 02:55:17 PM
The bigger concern I’m hearing ...

This sounds like the previous president, who loved to say, "I'm hearing" or "people say" or "people tell me" when he was making stuff up.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not just making this up and that you have a pipeline to numerous hospital administrators who have voiced this concern to you ...

Don't you think patients and their families should have the expectation that when they step into a hospital, the nurses, doctors and support staff have been vaccinated for a highly contagious virus that already has killed 650K Americans? Wouldn't you and your loved ones have that expectation every time you step into a hospital?

What is your solution other than terminating selfish, irrational employees who refuse to get vaccinated? Restrict unvaccinated staff to areas where they can never come face-to-face with patients or vaccinated co-workers? Establish separate COVID-19 wards for unvaccinated patients staffed strictly by unvaccinated medical personnel?

I'll tell you what the largest hospital network in the southeast is doing because their CEO sent an email to all employees a couple weeks ago explaining it:

They're going to fire every employee who isn't vaccinated by Oct. 31 - period. Meanwhile, they've been hiring hundreds of recent grads to be RNs and nursing aides, stipulating that those employees must be vaccinated to get hired. And they have increased the pay for current and incoming staff.

So yes, they will be trading experienced nurses who are willing to get infected with a deadly virus for inexperienced nurses who are willing to follow life-saving rules. If I or a loved one had to go to that hospital, it sounds like a reasonable trade-off to me.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 16, 2021, 03:16:36 PM
This sounds like the previous president, who loved to say, "I'm hearing" or "people say" or "people tell me" when he was making stuff up.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not just making this up and that you have a pipeline to numerous hospital administrators who have voiced this concern to you ...

Don't you think patients and their families should have the expectation that when they step into a hospital, the nurses, doctors and support staff have been vaccinated for a highly contagious virus that already has killed 650K Americans? Wouldn't you and your loved ones have that expectation every time you step into a hospital?

What is your solution other than terminating selfish, irrational employees who refuse to get vaccinated? Restrict unvaccinated staff to areas where they can never come face-to-face with patients or vaccinated co-workers? Establish separate COVID-19 wards for unvaccinated patients staffed strictly by unvaccinated medical personnel?

I'll tell you what the largest hospital network in the southeast is doing because their CEO sent an email to all employees a couple weeks ago explaining it:

They're going to fire every employee who isn't vaccinated by Oct. 31 - period. Meanwhile, they've been hiring hundreds of recent grads to be RNs and nursing aides, stipulating that those employees must be vaccinated to get hired. And they have increased the pay for current and incoming staff.

So yes, they will be trading experienced nurses who are willing to get infected with a deadly virus for inexperienced nurses who are willing to follow life-saving rules. If I or a loved one had to go to that hospital, it sounds like a reasonable trade-off to me.

I meet with hospital staff all day every day, from c-suite all the way down to the bedside nurse so when I say this is what I’m hearing, it is indeed what I’m hearing.

Did anywhere in my original post say that I agree with these nurses who would rather be fired then get vaccinated?  So you’re acknowledging the largest health system is anticipating having to fire hundreds of nurses by getting out in front of it and hiring hundreds of nurses straight out of school.

So you agree (through your own personal experience it seems) with what I’m hearing even though you’re skeptical as to whether or not I’m actually hearing it.  Is that right? 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 16, 2021, 03:23:19 PM
I don't get this argument of "most of the ICU beds are occupied by other things than COVID so people are over-reacting".
Perhaps because the argument is not in good faith.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 16, 2021, 04:59:34 PM
I meet with hospital staff all day every day, from c-suite all the way down to the bedside nurse so when I say this is what I’m hearing, it is indeed what I’m hearing.

Did anywhere in my original post say that I agree with these nurses who would rather be fired then get vaccinated?  So you’re acknowledging the largest health system is anticipating having to fire hundreds of nurses by getting out in front of it and hiring hundreds of nurses straight out of school.

So you agree (through your own personal experience it seems) with what I’m hearing even though you’re skeptical as to whether or not I’m actually hearing it.  Is that right?

A lot of people talk a tough game when they can get away with it.  When their paycheck and financial well being is on the line, they shut up real quickly.

Do you honestly think that Doctors (lol) and nurses (what we're really talking about here) are going to walk away from their professional careers over not getting vaccinated and take pay cuts across the board and sling burgles at Mac Ds?  No shot.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Lens on September 16, 2021, 05:07:55 PM
I read an article last week where a Gunderson Hospital spokesperson implored people to get vaxxed bc they were near limits on ICUs.  An interesting pointed he made was not all beds are created equal.  COVID ICU beds can require double to triple the manpower for care so going to 94% beds full doesn't always mean 6% is open bc they may no longer have the doc / nurses to staff bc they are stretched thin with COVID.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 16, 2021, 05:09:27 PM
A lot of people talk a tough game when they can get away with it.  When their paycheck and financial well being is on the line, they shut up real quickly.

Do you honestly think that Doctors (lol) and nurses (what we're really talking about here) are going to walk away from their professional careers over not getting vaccinated and take pay cuts across the board and sling burgles at Mac Ds?  No shot.

No I don’t.  Concern is the CNAs, techs, HUCs, etc.  Lower level support staff who are getting paid peanuts for what they have to do all day but without them the RNs will not be able to handle the additional workload.

Also non-medical staff.  Bio-Med, facilities maintenance, custodial etc…
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 16, 2021, 06:28:27 PM
Survey of 1.6 million employers finds that less than 2% of workers have resigned over vaccine mandates.
Now, given the labor issues out there, every worker counts, but its seems that concerns over any kind of mass exodus so far has failed to materialize.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/958586#vp_2
 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 16, 2021, 06:34:21 PM
Survey of 1.6 million employers finds that less than 2% of workers have resigned over vaccine mandates.
Now, given the labor issues out there, every worker counts, but its seems that concerns over any kind of mass exodus so far has failed to materialize.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/958586#vp_2

Yup some think as low as 1% some fear higher but no one really knows til the mandates go fully into effect.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on September 16, 2021, 06:45:44 PM
It affects both as you would imagine, the good news is that hospitals now know what resources it takes to care for a Covid patient so it’s a little more predictable and they can plan for it.

The bigger concern I’m hearing from hospital administrators is the unknown percentage of there workforce that will quit/fired once the vaccine mandates go into place and how that will affect their health systems ability to handle the inevitable fall surge.  Some are estimating 1% while others are fearing as much as 10% would leave during a time where nursing shortages are being felt at all levels and corners of the country.

Lol.

You have an apparently incorrect understanding of healthcare in America re: covid admission implications
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 16, 2021, 06:59:24 PM
Lol.

You have an apparently incorrect understanding of healthcare in America re: covid admission implications

Wrong.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 16, 2021, 07:38:56 PM
Wrong.

No, he’s right and you’re wrong.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 16, 2021, 09:06:08 PM
I meet with hospital staff all day every day, from c-suite all the way down to the bedside nurse so when I say this is what I’m hearing, it is indeed what I’m hearing.

Did anywhere in my original post say that I agree with these nurses who would rather be fired then get vaccinated?  So you’re acknowledging the largest health system is anticipating having to fire hundreds of nurses by getting out in front of it and hiring hundreds of nurses straight out of school.

So you agree (through your own personal experience it seems) with what I’m hearing even though you’re skeptical as to whether or not I’m actually hearing it.  Is that right?

People make all kinds of claims on the interwebs. I mean, some say the only thing the previous president did wrong regarding the pandemic was "bad messaging," and some of those same people think DeSantis has been wonderful for the Floridians his policies are killing.

But we actually agree on some of this stuff, or so it would seem if you're telling the truth instead of trolling, and I hope that it doesn't strain the fragile hospital system too much. But again, what's the alternative? Anybody who goes to a hospital does not want to be face-to-face with infected mouth-breathers who refuse to be vaccinated.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 17, 2021, 05:41:20 AM
No I don’t.  Concern is the CNAs, techs, HUCs, etc.  Lower level support staff who are getting paid peanuts for what they have to do all day but without them the RNs will not be able to handle the additional workload.

Also non-medical staff.  Bio-Med, facilities maintenance, custodial etc…

The concern is unfounded, I assure you.  As I've said before, what are they going to do?  Lay bricks?  They paid for their degrees and certs.  They're not walking away from those jobs to lay bricks, serve food, or make beds.  Don't be ridiculous.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 17, 2021, 07:24:18 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/new-york-hospital-staff-resignation-vaccine-mandate-maternity-pause/

Wrong.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 17, 2021, 07:35:14 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/new-york-hospital-staff-resignation-vaccine-mandate-maternity-pause/

Wrong.

Blame the effen unvaccinated, not the policy.

What mother who cares about her own health and that of her baby would want a bunch of selfish, misinformed, unvaccinated mouth-breathers in the delivery room or on the support staff?

Again, you claim to be for vaccines, so what is your solution? Separate unvaccinated maternity wards, where unvaccinated mothers can be treated by unvaccinated medical staff?

You're good at criticizing everybody (except DeSantis and Tucker), but where is your solution? What are all the administrators you talk to suggesting hospitals do in this kind of situation?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 17, 2021, 07:53:25 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/new-york-hospital-staff-resignation-vaccine-mandate-maternity-pause/

Wrong.

This is a small upstate NY hospital that performs about 200 deliveries a year.
If a temporary pause in births at a hospital that does fewer than four of them in a week is the worst you can find, then I remain entirely unconcerned. A few expectant moms will have to be driven a little further to give birth. An inconvenience for a tiny segment of the population? Sure. Reason to believe hospital systems won't be able to handle a fall surge in COVID because of mass resignations? Not close.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 17, 2021, 08:40:21 AM
Blame the effen unvaccinated, not the policy.

What mother who cares about her own health and that of her baby would want a bunch of selfish, misinformed, unvaccinated mouth-breathers in the delivery room or on the support staff?

Again, you claim to be for vaccines, so what is your solution? Separate unvaccinated maternity wards, where unvaccinated mothers can be treated by unvaccinated medical staff?

You're good at criticizing everybody (except DeSantis and Tucker), but where is your solution? What are all the administrators you talk to suggesting hospitals do in this kind of situation?

My original response about staff shortages was it being a larger concern for administrators then the lack of resources from a Covid surge.  I don’t disagree that these nurses should be vaccinated band if they’re not should be fired.  It was simply saying that was the larger concern that I’m hearing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on September 17, 2021, 09:11:05 AM
My original response about staff shortages was it being a larger concern for administrators then the lack of resources from a Covid surge.  I don’t disagree that these nurses should be vaccinated band if they’re not should be fired.  It was simply saying that was the larger concern that I’m hearing.

From what I've read, those administrators' concerns are not the norm, at least when it comes to big-city hospitals. Here, more are concerned about the availability of ICU beds and about their employees being spread too thin because they have to spend so much time treating unvaccinated COVID-19 patients.

But I'm not shooting the messenger, PA02, as you say you were only relaying what you've heard. I actually appreciate what might have been your most reasonable Scoop post ever, and I look forward to more.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 17, 2021, 09:17:02 AM
This is a small upstate NY hospital that performs about 200 deliveries a year.
If a temporary pause in births at a hospital that does fewer than four of them in a week is the worst you can find, then I remain entirely unconcerned. A few expectant moms will have to be driven a little further to give birth. An inconvenience for a tiny segment of the population? Sure. Reason to believe hospital systems won't be able to handle a fall surge in COVID because of mass resignations? Not close.

Phew!!  I’ll make sure my customers know their concerns are unwarranted.  Pakuni said everything will be fine.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 17, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
Phew!!  I’ll make sure my customers know their concerns are unwarranted.  Pakuni said everything will be fine.

Your make believe customers will be fine
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jsglow on September 17, 2021, 10:38:14 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/new-york-hospital-staff-resignation-vaccine-mandate-maternity-pause/

Wrong.

Pace, you know as well as I do that one will ALWAYS be able to find stories to support any narrative.  Well here's one more.  Our daughter is now in administration at Aurora St. Luke's after serving several years at the bedside, including in the Covid unit. That fine institution is one of two Tier 1 hospitals in MKE, certainly serving a decent percentage of the Scoopers you interact with here so real world and directly applicable, wouldn't you agree? 

She knows of ONE departure over their corporate vaccine mandate.  One.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 17, 2021, 11:03:28 AM
Phew!!  I’ll make sure my customers know their concerns are unwarranted.  Pakuni said everything will be fine.

Your customers can worry about an imminent nuclear attack from France or anything else, for all I care. There's just as much reason to believe that as it there to believe some kind of system failure is imminent due to a critical mass of mandate-driven resignations.
Might there be some hiccups, like at a maternity ward  in middle-of-nowhere New York? Sure. But that's not what you claimed was the concern. For what you claimed was there concern, there's no evidence to date to believe it will happen.


 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on September 17, 2021, 03:39:25 PM
Pace, you know as well as I do that one will ALWAYS be able to find stories to support any narrative.  Well here's one more.  Our daughter is now in administration at Aurora St. Luke's after serving several years at the bedside, including in the Covid unit. That fine institution is one of two Tier 1 hospitals in MKE, certainly serving a decent percentage of the Scoopers you interact with here so real world and directly applicable, wouldn't you agree? 

She knows of ONE departure over their corporate vaccine mandate.  One.

I know ASLMC very well, amazing hospital with amazing people!!  Very good chance your daughter and I paths have crossed at some point.  Hope that there remains just one nurse that leaves after the mandate deadline goes out into effect but that’s great news!! 🙏
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 17, 2021, 03:42:01 PM
I know ASLMC very well, amazing hospital with amazing people!!  Very good chance your daughter and I paths have crossed at some point.  Hope that there remains just one nurse that leaves after the mandate deadline goes out into effect but that’s great news!! 🙏

You’ve never crossed paths with his daughter
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on September 17, 2021, 05:11:11 PM
Masks smasks. Overrated. Ask this guy.

Anti-Mask Florida Official Dies of COVID—and Takes GOP Software Secrets With Him

https://www.thedailybeast.com/gregg-prentice-anti-mask-florida-election-official-dies-of-covid-and-takes-gop-software-secrets-with-him

Just a day after testing positive for COVID-19, a Florida Republican official who battled against mask mandates, attacked the vaccine, and railed at CDC officials has died in Tampa.

Gregg Prentice, who was 61, led the Hillsborough County Election Integrity Committee—and his sudden death has sent the local GOP scrambling as it no longer has access to essential campaign finance software without his help.

Along with others in the Hillsborough County Election Integrity Committee, Prentice was a vociferous critic of the vaccine, mask mandates, and COVID-prevention measures. He railed against top infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci, vowing in a Twitter post to “end Faucism.” He also insisted the U.S. needs “more socialist distancing than we do social distancing” and that the pandemic was created to destroy small businesses.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 17, 2021, 05:15:53 PM
Masks smasks. Overrated. Ask this guy.

Anti-Mask Florida Official Dies of COVID—and Takes GOP Software Secrets With Him

https://www.thedailybeast.com/gregg-prentice-anti-mask-florida-election-official-dies-of-covid-and-takes-gop-software-secrets-with-him

Just a day after testing positive for COVID-19, a Florida Republican official who battled against mask mandates, attacked the vaccine, and railed at CDC officials has died in Tampa.

Gregg Prentice, who was 61, led the Hillsborough County Election Integrity Committee—and his sudden death has sent the local GOP scrambling as it no longer has access to essential campaign finance software without his help.

Along with others in the Hillsborough County Election Integrity Committee, Prentice was a vociferous critic of the vaccine, mask mandates, and COVID-prevention measures. He railed against top infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci, vowing in a Twitter post to “end Faucism.” He also insisted the U.S. needs “more socialist distancing than we do social distancing” and that the pandemic was created to destroy small businesses.
Unmasked. Unmuzzled. Unvaccinated. Unafraid...is definitely the way to go. Literally.
https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/kristen-lowery-40-escalon-california-anti-vaxxer-ex-vaxxer-died-of-covid

Surprised the flag motif didn't protect her.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on September 18, 2021, 08:10:22 PM
Your make believe customers will be fine

Is he selling DirecTV to new mothers in the hospital now?

Tough racket.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on September 22, 2021, 11:03:14 AM
Well, at least the US hasn't cornered the market on crazy.  Germany jumping in too:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-germany-mask-murder-gas-station-attendant/
Quote
Berlin — Senior politicians in Germany expressed shock over the weekend killing of a young gas station clerk who asked a customer to wear a face mask, and they warned Tuesday against the radicalization of people who oppose the country's coronavirus pandemic restrictions. A 49-year-old German man was arrested in the fatal Saturday shooting of the clerk in the western town of Idar-Oberstein. The suspect is being held on suspicion of murder.
 
Authorities said the man told officers he acted "out of anger" after being refused service for not wearing a mask while trying to buy beer.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on September 22, 2021, 12:13:12 PM
Well, at least the US hasn't cornered the market on crazy.  Germany jumping in too:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-germany-mask-murder-gas-station-attendant/

At my trade show in Vegas a couple weeks ago, the most flagrant violators and objectors to the mask mandate indoors and at the show was surprisingly Israelis and assorted Europeans.  Nobody liked it, obviously, but of the nearby booths that I saw get scolded multiple times and the people walking around reprimanded by security, those were the primary groups.  When in Rome I guess
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on September 24, 2021, 02:12:05 PM
You don't say ...

@washingtonpost
Pediatric covid-19 cases rose faster in counties without school mask requirements, CDC says wapo.st/3ubLEA9
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on September 24, 2021, 02:30:49 PM
1+1=2
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on September 24, 2021, 02:46:24 PM
You don't say ...

@washingtonpost
Pediatric covid-19 cases rose faster in counties without school mask requirements, CDC says wapo.st/3ubLEA9

Covid or RSV?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jay Bee on October 01, 2021, 06:29:43 PM
You don't say ...

@washingtonpost
Pediatric covid-19 cases rose faster in counties without school mask requirements, CDC says wapo.st/3ubLEA9

What does a count of “(known) cases” tell you? For me - nada. Might as well conclude based on # of dandelions in each county.

#CasesNoMatta
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 01, 2021, 07:01:58 PM
What does a count of “(known) cases” tell you? For me - nada. Might as well conclude based on # of dandelions in each county.

#CasesNoMatta

Yeah actually it does. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Boozemon Barro on October 02, 2021, 09:29:11 AM
https://ianmsc.substack.com/p/every-comparison-shows-masks-are?r=3r9a2&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=

Here's an interesting article comparing neighboring states and counties where one had mask mandates and the other did not. The results are unsurprising.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 02, 2021, 10:00:29 AM
https://ianmsc.substack.com/p/every-comparison-shows-masks-are?r=3r9a2&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=

Here's an interesting article comparing neighboring states and counties where one had mask mandates and the other did not. The results are unsurprising.


That’s cause most mandates didn’t cover the private spaces where much of the spread occurs. So it’s unsurprising that mandates don’t really work.

But masks themselves do.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 02, 2021, 10:42:30 AM
https://ianmsc.substack.com/p/every-comparison-shows-masks-are?r=3r9a2&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=

Here's an interesting article comparing neighboring states and counties where one had mask mandates and the other did not. The results are unsurprising.

Can't speak for the entire article, but the portion concerning the Chicago area is about as intellectually dishonest as it gets.
First, it pretends that living conditions in terms of factors like density and public interaction between Cook and, say, Kendall or McHenry are equal. Obviously they are not.
Second, it ignores the vast amount of travel that occurs between the suburbs and city, and suburb to suburb. Apparently he'd be surprised to learn that there aren't walls separating Cook from the collar counties.
And lastly, he/she conveniently fails to mention  Cook's mask mandate  went into effect a whole seven days before the state's, which is hardly enough time to make the sweeping judgements being made.

Again, can't speak for the entire article, other than pointing out its author isn't above misleading his/her audience.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 02, 2021, 11:53:18 AM
can't speak for the entire article, other than pointing out its author isn't above misleading his/her audience.

I mean, it's from a paid subscription email newsletter, from an *ahem* completely unbiased source!
https://substack.com/profile/34957737-im

Seriously, this is the depths that "covid deniers" need to seek out to prove they are right.   Because. Truth. Hurts.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Boozemon Barro on October 02, 2021, 01:11:22 PM
Can't speak for the entire article, but the portion concerning the Chicago area is about as intellectually dishonest as it gets.
First, it pretends that living conditions in terms of factors like density and public interaction between Cook and, say, Kendall or McHenry are equal. Obviously they are not.
Second, it ignores the vast amount of travel that occurs between the suburbs and city, and suburb to suburb. Apparently he'd be surprised to learn that there aren't walls separating Cook from the collar counties.
And lastly, he/she conveniently fails to mention  Cook's mask mandate  went into effect a whole seven days before the state's, which is hardly enough time to make the sweeping judgements being made.

Again, can't speak for the entire article, other than pointing out its author isn't above misleading his/her audience.

Those factors were present before and after mask mandates in both areas. Mask mandates don't work.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 02, 2021, 01:13:09 PM
Those factors were present before and after mask mandates in both areas. Mask mandates don't work.

We extend previous studies on the impact of masks on COVID-19 outcomes by investigating an unprecedented breadth and depth of health outcomes, geographical resolutions, types of mask mandates, early versus later waves and controlling for other government interventions, mobility testing rate and weather. We show that mask mandates are associated with a statistically significant decrease in new cases (-3.55 per 100K), deaths (-0.13 per 100K), and the proportion of hospital admissions (-2.38 percentage points) up to 40 days after the introduction of mask mandates both at the state and county level. These effects are large, corresponding to 14% of the highest recorded number of cases, 13% of deaths, and 7% of admission proportion. We also find that mask mandates are linked to a 23.4 percentage point increase in mask adherence in four diverse states.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0252315
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 02, 2021, 01:26:53 PM
We extend previous studies on the impact of masks on COVID-19 outcomes by investigating an unprecedented breadth and depth of health outcomes, geographical resolutions, types of mask mandates, early versus later waves and controlling for other government interventions, mobility testing rate and weather. We show that mask mandates are associated with a statistically significant decrease in new cases (-3.55 per 100K), deaths (-0.13 per 100K), and the proportion of hospital admissions (-2.38 percentage points) up to 40 days after the introduction of mask mandates both at the state and county level. These effects are large, corresponding to 14% of the highest recorded number of cases, 13% of deaths, and 7% of admission proportion. We also find that mask mandates are linked to a 23.4 percentage point increase in mask adherence in four diverse states.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0252315

Careful now, facts and data don't matter to this guy.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 08, 2021, 10:35:24 PM
Summer school data from nearly 800 K-12 schools in North Carolina shows mask mandates have the power to curb COVID-19 outbreaks and reduce the average infection rate, even when the general community is experiencing more rapid coronavirus spread due to the highly contagious delta variant.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article254859122.html

Data has shown that just one person infected with this variant, on average, can be expected to infect about seven to eight other people in the surrounding community. But it took 13 people who contracted the virus from their community to, on average, infect just one person inside the masked schools, which also had an optional but recommended guideline of at least three feet of physical distancing between people.

The secondary attack rate, or the probability that someone in the schools became infected with the coronavirus, was 2.6%, according to the study, which is “slightly higher” than the attack rate in the general community (1%) before the delta variant gained speed. Researchers say this “likely [reflects] the more infectious nature of delta.”

The study, published Oct. 1 in the journal Pediatrics, was conducted by the Duke University School of Medicine in Durham and the ABC Science Collaborative, a program that pairs scientists and physicians with school and community leaders to understand COVID-19 information.

“The findings of this study are extremely encouraging for the health and safety of students and staff attending schools where universal masking is in place,” study co-author Dr. Kanecia Zimmerman, co-chair of the ABC Science Collaborative, said in a news release. “The delta variant is more transmissible than previous ancestral variants, but transmission in schools can continue to be low with vaccination among those who are eligible, strict adherence to masking, and avoidance of pandemic fatigue.”


Here's the actual study: https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2021/10/07/peds.2021-054396
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Jockey on October 09, 2021, 12:05:49 PM
We already knew from studies years ago that outside of vaccines, there are two ways to mitigate the spread of a virus - masks & social distancing.

This is just one more truth that the nut jobs on the right have tried to eliminate.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 08:14:35 AM
And we also know that our President and "Dr Jill Biden" just violated the DC Mask mandate at a Georgetown restaurant.  You want to know why people are pissed about masks?  Epecially on their three year old kids?  See Gavin Newsom and Joey Biden.  #Clowns #Hypocrites #Clearly Dumber Than a Bag of Rocks. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 18, 2021, 08:21:07 AM
And we also know that our President and "Dr Jill Biden" just violated the DC Mask mandate at a Georgetown restaurant.  You want to know why people are pissed about masks, especially on their three year old kids?  See Gavin Newsom and Joey Biden.  #Clowns #Hypocrites #Clearly Dumber Than a Bag of Rocks.


1.  They clearly made a mistake

2.  Not sure why you are putting Dr. Jill Biden in quotes.  She is a legitimate doctor.

3.  People here were making fun of Biden for wearing masks in situations that didn't call for them.  I guess whatever talking point works aiina?

4.  No one outside the conservative media universe is going to care about any of this.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 08:29:26 AM

1.  They clearly made a mistake

2.  Not sure why you are putting Dr. Jill Biden in quotes.  She is a legitimate doctor.

3.  People here were making fun of Biden for wearing masks in situations that didn't call for them.  I guess whatever talking point works aiina?

4.  No one outside the conservative media universe is going to care about any of this.

Maybe Dr. Jill should have worn  a mask?  Regardless, Dr. Osterholm along with many other experts believe cloth masks have minimal impact.  I think it's safer than not wearing them but the virus is endemic and we were unprepared.  When politicians are forcing kindergartners to wear masks, especially considering the filth and bacteria on those things, I don't think the net positive is greater than the negative.  Of course no one outside "the conservative media" will care.  Will they even report it? 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 08:39:52 AM
Fluffy,  with all due respect I deal with PHD professors in bio-chemistry almost every day and none of them refer to themselves as doctors.  In fact outside the Acadrmic environment I have never met any professor wiith a PHD in their field that referred to themselves as Dr. so-and-so.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 18, 2021, 08:41:08 AM
Maybe Dr. Jill should have worn  a mask?  Regardless, Dr. Osterholm along with many other experts believe cloth masks have minimal impact.  I think it's safer than not wearing them but the virus is endemic and we were unprepared.  When politicians are forcing kindergartners to wear masks, especially considering the filth and bacteria on those things, I don't think the net positive is greater than the negative.  Of course no one outside "the conservative media" will care.  Will they even report it?
Closing in on two years in this public health crisis and despite years and years of proof that masks help to mitigated the spread of deadly diseases, the right wing endlessly resurrects the idea that masks are terrible. No matter how much proof is offered, the same debunked lies are spun up again and again. The cockroaches never die.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 18, 2021, 08:44:19 AM
Fluffy,  with all due respect I deal with PHD professors in bio-chemistry almost every day and none of them refer to themselves as doctors.  In fact outside the Acadrmic environment I have never met any professor wiith a PHD in their field that referred to themselves as Dr. so-and-so.

She is a legit doctor who worked in an academic environment.

Such a silly criticism that devalues any point you are trying to make.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 08:45:57 AM
Closing in on two years in this public health crisis and despite years and years of proof that masks help to mitigated the spread of deadly diseases, the right wing endlessly resurrects the idea that masks are terrible. No matter how much proof is offered, the same debunked lies are spun up again and again. The cockroaches never die.

Is Dr. Osterholm right wing?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 18, 2021, 08:46:10 AM
Closing in on two years in this public health crisis and despite years and years of proof that masks help to mitigated the spread of deadly diseases, the right wing endlessly resurrects the idea that masks are terrible. No matter how much proof is offered, the same debunked lies are spun up again and again. The cockroaches never die.


Yep.  And the same group is complaining about kids learning remotely without any sort of understanding that the two things go hand in hand.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 08:50:25 AM
She is a legit doctor who worked in an academic environment.

Such a silly criticism that devalues any point you are trying to make.

Actually it isn't  silly.  The designation is silly. Education or any humanities professor do not consider themselves "legitimate doctors" unless they're  crazy smug and delusional.  Do you actually think real doctors believe there is no difference between them and their work vs a academic doctor?    Please.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 18, 2021, 08:56:25 AM
Actually it isn't  silly.  The designation is silly. Education or any humanities professor do not consider themselves "legitimate doctors" unless they're  crazy smug and delusional.  Do you actually think real doctors believe there is no difference between them and their work vs a academic doctor?    Please.


Education and Humanities doctors consider themselves "real doctors."  Whether or not they decide to use the title is a personal choice, but it is hardly unwarranted when they do.  What do you think PhD or EdD stands for? 

Whether or not medical doctors believe they should refer to themselves as doctors isn't really relevant.  And if they get bent out of shape about it, it says more about them than anything.

So silly.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 08:59:08 AM
Actually it isn't  silly.  The designation is silly. Education or any humanities professor do not consider themselves "legitimate doctors" unless they're  crazy smug and delusional.  Do you actually think real doctors believe there is no difference between them and their work vs a academic doctor?    Please.

It's weird that no one ever complained about PhDs being called doctors until about 9 months ago.
Like, where were all these gripes over "Doctor" Henry Kissinger?
I'm sure there's a reason why. I just can't quite put my finger on it.

And if you've never come across anyone outside of MDs referring to themselves, or being referred to, as doctors, you need to get out more.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 09:00:55 AM
Actually it isn't  silly.  The designation is silly. Education or any humanities professor do not consider themselves "legitimate doctors" unless they're  crazy smug and delusional.  Do you actually think real doctors believe there is no difference between them and their work vs a academic doctor?    Please.

💯 when nurses get their doctorate degree in nursing they don’t all of a sudden walk around calling themselves doctor so and so…..they add DNP to their email signature/business cards and that’s about it because they know walking around calling themselves Dr. would be ridiculous.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 18, 2021, 09:02:59 AM
It's weird that no one ever complained about PhDs being called doctors until about 9 months ago.
Like, where were all these gripes over "Doctor" Henry Kissinger?
I'm sure there's a reason why. I just can't quite put my finger on it.


The accent?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 09:07:54 AM
It's weird that no one ever complained about PhDs being called doctors until about 9 months ago.
Like, where were all these gripes over "Doctor" Henry Kissinger?
I'm sure there's a reason why. I just can't quite put my finger on it.

And if you've never come across anyone outside of MDs referring to themselves, or being referred to, as doctors, you need to get out more.

Uhhh....no. I work with PHD chemists almost every day.  Some of us have MS degrees, many have PHD's, and they literally couldn't give a flying fk about being called Dr. 

And I'll tell you something else:  If you polled 1000 academics who have a PHD in a humanities discipline, and asked which field is the easiest as far as getting a doctorate, I would bet the only ones who would not say Education are the Education professors.  So not only is there a vast, vast, difference between "Legitimate doctors:" and Ed. Professors,  there's a vast difference between every humanities PHD prof and Education professors.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 18, 2021, 09:09:17 AM
Uhhh....no. I work with PHD chemists almost every day.  Some of us have MS degrees, many have PHD's, and they literally couldn't give a flying fk about being called Dr. 

And I'll tell you something else:  If you polled 1000 academics who have a PHD in a humanities discipline, and asked which field is the easiest as far as getting a doctorate, I would bet the only ones who would not say Education are the Education professors.  So not only is there a vast, vast, difference between "Legitimate doctors:" and Ed. Professor, there's a vast difference between every humanities discipline and Education professors.

Who cares
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 18, 2021, 09:09:55 AM
Uhhh....no. I work with PHD chemists almost every day.  Some of us have MS degrees, many have PHD's, and they literally couldn't give a flying fk about being called Dr. 

And I'll tell you something else:  If you polled 1000 academics who have a PHD in a humanities discipline, and asked which field is the easiest as far as getting a doctorate, I would bet the only ones who would not say Education are the Education professors.  So not only is there a vast, vast, difference between "Legitimate doctors:" and Ed. Professor, there's a vast difference between every humanities discipline and Education professors.


All of this is likely true.

But doesn't mean Jill Biden isn't a legit doctor and shouldn't use the title if she wants.

So silly.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 09:10:49 AM
Who cares

People care that the Biden's, plural, are assclowns.   Just like they care that the Trump's  are assclowns. They're  totally incompetent.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 18, 2021, 09:12:35 AM
People care that the Biden's, plural, are assclowns.   Just like they care that the Trump's  are assclowns. They're  totally incompetent.

Great, have a grape soda
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 18, 2021, 09:14:01 AM
Are two people really sitting here arguing people who literally have a doctorate degree aren't doctors?

The Websters dictionary literally defines Doctor as someone who holds a PHD, just because you inaccurately developed an association with the term doctor being only for MD's doesn't mean it's correct. Dr Biden hasn't been walking into hospitals saying "it's ok I got this as I'm a doctor" like you two seem to believe.

This whole "legitimate" argument reeks of the legitimate rape thing years ago. Their logic is that in order to meet the definition something has to be in line with their pre defined ideal of what that word means. And if they're wrong, then that something isn't "legitimate..."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 09:14:47 AM

All of this is likely true.

But doesn't mean Jill Biden isn't a legit doctor and shouldn't use the title if she wants.

So silly.

She can do whatever she wants it's just a little strange.  And frankly as a doctor and wife of our President, clearly a woman with some intelligence, it's embarrassing that she didn't wear a mask or tell her husband to do so.  Especially in light of his  messaging about the subject.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 18, 2021, 09:19:42 AM
I'm still waiting for Dr Jill to be named Surgeon General.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 09:26:23 AM
Are two people really sitting here arguing people who literally have a doctorate degree aren't doctors?

The Websters dictionary literally defines Doctor as someone who holds a PHD, just because you inaccurately developed an association with the term doctor being only for MD's doesn't mean it's correct. Dr Biden hasn't been walking into hospitals saying "it's ok I got this as I'm a doctor" like you two seem to believe.

This whole "legitimate" argument reeks of the legitimate rape thing years ago. Their logic is that in order to meet the definition something has to be in line with their pre defined ideal of what that word means. And if they're wrong, then that something isn't "legitimate..."

Galway, you're a smart person.  I'm simply pointing out there is a vast difference between a doctor of medicine and a doctor academic.  Both sides are more than well aware of this fact regardless of "definitions".  Now maybe it doesn't bother anyone and that's fine but it's odd for Academic professors, from my experience, to refer to themselves as Dr. so-and-so.  My brother-in-law is an Anthropology prof and I have never, in any social setting, heard my sister introduce himself as Dr. or him refer to himself as Dr.  I know many, many, other profs with PHD'S in a variety of fields, that also do not use this distinction unless in the classroom.  But whatever.  I do feel for Jill Biden. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 09:27:12 AM
I'm still waiting for Dr Jill to be named Surgeon General.

Why not nominate her for the World Bank?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 18, 2021, 09:35:27 AM
I'm still waiting for Dr Jill to be named Surgeon General.

Why would she be? The requirement specify a medical doctor. See how this is again your prescribing what a definition should be vs what a definition is? 

Galway, you're a smart person.  I'm simply pointing out there is a vast difference between a doctor of medicine and a doctor academic. Both sides are more than well aware of this fact regardless of "definitions".   Now maybe it doesn't bother anyone and that's fine but it's odd for Academic professors, from my experience, to refer to themselves as Dr. so-and-so.  My brother-in-law is an Anthropology prof and I have never, in any social setting, heard my sister introduce himself as Dr. or him refer to himself as Dr.  I know many, many, other profs with PHD'S in a variety of fields, that also do not use this distinction unless in the classroom.  But whatever.  I do feel for Jill Biden. 

Bolded: Yes absolutely, no dr of education is going to claim otherwise and she hasn't.

Everything else in your statement is anecdotal. The bottom line is she has a doctorate, a doctoral degree she is a doctor. She earned the title and means the definition. Just because in your mind only medical doctors are worthy of using the title doesn't make you right.

As an aside, what is the predefined definition of legitimate doctor? Does psychiatry & psychology fit in? Physical therapy? Is it the broad spectrum of medicine in general? Does that mean PAs and NPs that have doctorates are allowed to be legitimate doctors? Are pharmacists legitimate doctors? What's about someone with a doctorate in public health?

The "bin" you've made for legitimate doctor isn't one that works, the actual definition does.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 18, 2021, 09:58:21 AM
I'm still waiting for Dr Jill to be named Surgeon General.

the incessant need for the media to use the "doctor card" when introducing the 1st lady, given her degree smells of an inferiority complex given the shallowness of her real "degree"  by the way, she is not a PH.D.!  she has an Ed.D and only sought out that "degree" for the title.  judging by her dissertation, someone should have sent her back to school for  "do over"

https://news.yahoo.com/jill-biden-doctorate-garbage-because-212259558.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 18, 2021, 10:03:40 AM
the incessant need for the media to use the "doctor card" when introducing the 1st lady, given her degree smells of an inferiority complex given the shallowness of her real "degree"  by the way, she is not a PH.D.!  she has an Ed.D and only sought out that "degree" for the title.  judging by her dissertation, someone should have sent her back to school for  "do over"

https://news.yahoo.com/jill-biden-doctorate-garbage-because-212259558.html

5 of 10.  Appreciate the air quotes but the lack of personal attacks and total poor grammar hampers the effort.  Knew this topic was a bat signal for you.  We’d all appreciate a better effort. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 18, 2021, 10:08:09 AM
the incessant need for the media to use the "doctor card" when introducing the 1st lady, given her degree smells of an inferiority complex given the shallowness of her real "degree"  by the way, she is not a PH.D.!  she has an Ed.D and only sought out that "degree" for the title.  judging by her dissertation, someone should have sent her back to school for  "do over"

https://news.yahoo.com/jill-biden-doctorate-garbage-because-212259558.html

With all due respect any Trump voter saying that they dislike someone over the authenticity of their degree is extremely ironic. I'm not saying hers is fully earned, or not. I don't care either way but surely you have to see the irony of turning a blind eye to your side and twisting the knife on the other?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 10:17:17 AM
With all due respect any Trump voter saying that they dislike someone over the authenticity of their degree is extremely ironic. I'm not saying hers is fully earned, or not. I don't care either way but surely you have to see the irony of turning a blind eye to your side and twisting the knife on the other?

I mean, the obvious is no one really cares about the quality of her degree or who should or should not be allowed to be called doctor. It's entirely political.
Again, nobody whined about Dr. Henry Kissinger or Dr. Martin Luther King or Dr. Billy Graham.
Or, for that matter, Trump aide Dr. Sebastian Gorka.

Fun fact ... "doctor" comes from the Latin word for "teacher." People were called academicians "Doctor" long before it became the chosen phrase for M.D.s.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 18, 2021, 10:18:14 AM
The Dr. designation clearly should be reserved only for medical professionals who believe horse de-wormer is a miracle COVID-19 cure while defending those who undermine a proven, life-saving vaccine.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 10:20:51 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveKrak/status/1450102883773411333

How such a miraculous turnaround while school is in full swing without gov’t intervention or mandates put in place defies logic!! 

MU82, where is the praise for DeSantis in getting things turned around? 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 10:39:00 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveKrak/status/1450102883773411333

How such a miraculous turnaround while school is in full swing without gov’t intervention or mandates put in place defies logic!! 

MU82, where is the praise for DeSantis in getting things turned around?

Still top 10 in death rate over the past seven days. Not sure that's something to celebrate, but you do you.
And feel free to ignore what's occurred over the past two months, I guess. And Florida's consistent fudging of its COVID numbers.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on October 18, 2021, 10:46:18 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveKrak/status/1450102883773411333

How such a miraculous turnaround while school is in full swing without gov’t intervention or mandates put in place defies logic!! 

MU82, where is the praise for DeSantis in getting things turned around? 

Florida is currently following the same trajectory as last year. Peak in July/August, trough in cases in October. Picking back up to high new highs between the holidays.

The midwest is following the same trajectory as last year, too, picking up now and peaking in December.

It's easy for humans to see patterns where there are none, though, so I suppose we'll see.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 18, 2021, 10:59:39 AM
the incessant need for the media to use the "doctor card" when introducing the 1st lady, given her degree smells of an inferiority complex given the shallowness of her real "degree"  by the way, she is not a PH.D.!  she has an Ed.D and only sought out that "degree" for the title.  judging by her dissertation, someone should have sent her back to school for  "do over"

https://news.yahoo.com/jill-biden-doctorate-garbage-because-212259558.html


Someone has an inferiority complex, but it certainly aint Jill Biden.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 11:03:19 AM
Still top 10 in death rate over the past seven days. Not sure that's something to celebrate, but you do you.
And feel free to ignore what's occurred over the past two months, I guess. And Florida's consistent fudging of its COVID numbers.

Instead of choosing an arbitrary cut off of two months I’ve been arguing for state by state evaluations looking at the totality from start to now.  With the hope of trying to learn what worked and what didn’t when it comes to managing a pandemic. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 11:05:15 AM
Florida is currently following the same trajectory as last year. Peak in July/August, trough in cases in October. Picking back up to high new highs between the holidays.

The midwest is following the same trajectory as last year, too, picking up now and peaking in December.

It's easy for humans to see patterns where there are none, though, so I suppose we'll see.

💯 I tried to make the seasonality argument a couple weeks ago and per usual was shouted down.  Midwest and northeast up next as you pointed out.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 18, 2021, 11:07:02 AM
Why would she be? The requirement specify a medical doctor. See how this is again your prescribing what a definition should be vs what a definition is? 

Bolded: Yes absolutely, no dr of education is going to claim otherwise and she hasn't.

Everything else in your statement is anecdotal. The bottom line is she has a doctorate, a doctoral degree she is a doctor. She earned the title and means the definition. Just because in your mind only medical doctors are worthy of using the title doesn't make you right.

As an aside, what is the predefined definition of legitimate doctor? Does psychiatry & psychology fit in? Physical therapy? Is it the broad spectrum of medicine in general? Does that mean PAs and NPs that have doctorates are allowed to be legitimate doctors? Are pharmacists legitimate doctors? What's about someone with a doctorate in public health?

The "bin" you've made for legitimate doctor isn't one that works, the actual definition does.

It's not my wish for her to be the SG, but rather your peeps.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/whoopi-goldberg-thinks-jill-biden-not-a-medical-doctor-should-be-surgeon-general (https://www.thedailybeast.com/whoopi-goldberg-thinks-jill-biden-not-a-medical-doctor-should-be-surgeon-general)

(I know Whoopi is a no talent ass clown, but she still has a TV show watched by hundreds, if not thousands of people.)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 18, 2021, 11:11:16 AM
It's not my wish for her to be the SG, but rather your peeps.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/whoopi-goldberg-thinks-jill-biden-not-a-medical-doctor-should-be-surgeon-general (https://www.thedailybeast.com/whoopi-goldberg-thinks-jill-biden-not-a-medical-doctor-should-be-surgeon-general)

(I know Whoopi is a no talent ass clown, but she still has a TV show watched by hundreds, if not thousands of people.)

Ain't my peeps, my peeps are purple pink or blue and usually microwaved by EoD Easter Sunday.

Clearly someone hasn't seen Ghost
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 18, 2021, 11:12:51 AM
With all due respect any Trump voter saying that they dislike someone over the authenticity of their degree is extremely ironic. I'm not saying hers is fully earned, or not. I don't care either way but surely you have to see the irony of turning a blind eye to your side and twisting the knife on the other?

eagle, i understand your point.  you can call it "dislike", but questioning the validity of her credentials when they try to use it for a power position is a legitimate question.  upon further review, one must admit her weak dissertation fraught with errors and weak arguments cheapens those who have worked hard to earn their Ed.D's or PH.D's.  this is all fair game.  in this case, i believe introducing or referring to her as first lady, jill biden is sufficient.  once you insert the dr prefix in, all bets are off. 


 just as an aside, or reference,  i only use my prefix when calling other offices, pharmacies and other appropriate venues, but MOST times refer to myself by my first name including the introducing of myself to patients.  i often tell my staff to refer to me by my first name.  people who introduce me to others as dr....i often correct to,  please call me(first name) rocket ;)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 18, 2021, 11:13:59 AM
eagle, i understand your point.  you can call it "dislike", but questioning the validity of her credentials when they try to use it for a power position is a legitimate question.  upon further review, one must admit her weak dissertation fraught with errors and weak arguments cheapens those who have worked hard to earn their Ed.D's or PH.D's.  this is all fair game.  in this case, i believe introducing or referring to her as first lady, jill biden is sufficient.  once you insert the dr prefix in, all bets are off. 


 just as an aside, or reference,  i only use my prefix when calling other offices, pharmacies and other appropriate venues, but MOST times refer to myself by my first name including the introducing of myself to patients.  i often tell my staff to refer to me by my first name.  people who introduce me to others as dr....i often correct to,  please call me(first name) rocket ;)


Just be honest.... 

You are discounting her because of her political affiliation and that's about it.  You have no idea about the quality of her dissertation.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 18, 2021, 11:14:23 AM

Someone has an inferiority complex, but it certainly aint Jill Biden.

you clearly do not know me sully
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 11:16:42 AM
💯 I tried to make the seasonality argument a couple weeks ago and per usual was shouted down.  Midwest and northeast up next as you pointed out.

And by "shouted down," you mean people pointed out facts to the contrary.
The fact is, contrary to what you said then, case numbers were declining and continue to decline in most of the Midwest ... in double digits in Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas and Nebraska over the past two weeks.
The only Midwestern states not seeing a decline are Michigan and Minnesota, but they're not seeing anything close to the late summer surge in Florida.

I have no idea what the next couple of months may bring, but any claim that cases are trending upward in the Midwest at this time, or when you first made the claim a week or two ago, is incorrect.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 11:21:11 AM
And by "shouted down," you mean people pointed out facts to the contrary.
The fact is, contrary to what you said then, case numbers were declining and continue to decline in most of the Midwest ... in double digits in Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas and Nebraska over the past two weeks.
The only Midwestern states not seeing a decline are Michigan and Minnesota, but they're not seeing anything close to the late summer surge in Florida.

I have no idea what the next couple of months may bring, but any claim that cases are trending upward in the Midwest at this time is incorrect.

I pointed to case numbers in northeast at the time, not the midwest.  The general point of the conversation was that we’re starting at a higher baseline this year when compared to last year almost across the board in all of the states.  If you look at 7 day avgs of cases and or deaths it’s worse in 2021 then in 2020 at the same time so if the seasonal trend follows that of 2020 it could get pretty bleak and will be no matter what the local mandates are or are not.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 18, 2021, 11:30:33 AM
eagle, i understand your point.  you can call it "dislike", but questioning the validity of her credentials when they try to use it for a power position is a legitimate question.  upon further review, one must admit her weak dissertation fraught with errors and weak arguments cheapens those who have worked hard to earn their Ed.D's or PH.D's.  this is all fair game.  in this case, i believe introducing or referring to her as first lady, jill biden is sufficient.  once you insert the dr prefix in, all bets are off. 


 just as an aside, or reference,  i only use my prefix when calling other offices, pharmacies and other appropriate venues, but MOST times refer to myself by my first name including the introducing of myself to patients.  i often tell my staff to refer to me by my first name.  people who introduce me to others as dr....i often correct to,  please call me(first name) rocket ;)

Yes, I agree with your points regarding reviewing her dissertation and questioning the validity of her degree. To me though, it was up to U of Delaware to decide whether or not it met their standards and whether awarding her a doctorate cheapened the accomplishment as a whole.

In a similar light, does awarding MPS grads a diploma who can barely write a paper cheapen the degree of someone who graduates from say Homestead? Does university of Phoenix online BA/BS cheapen the degree of IVY league grads?

The point I'm making is I don't think it necessarily cheapens the title of Dr or any Medical or non Medical carrier of that title. What it does is cheapen the degrees of any University of Delaware grads who genuinely worked hard to receive their degree.

I think people get degrees for all sorts of reasons and she wouldn't be the first or the last to do it purely for title and you aren't the first or last to drop the Dr when not needed.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 11:30:49 AM
I pointed to case numbers in northeast at the time, not the midwest.

You were also wrong there, and I brought the receipts.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60399.msg1375101#msg1375101

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 11:38:44 AM
You were also wrong there, and I brought the receipts.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60399.msg1375101#msg1375101

And as you know I clarified/apologized for the broad brush generalizations of “record surge”.

If you want to categorize going from 70 cases a day to 450-500 a day over the last 4 months a statistical increase that’s fair I’m just cautioning of what the fall/winter months might have in store for the northeast/Midwest.  CT’s 7 day avg of positive cases in early October of this year is higher then at the same point in October of 2020, same with 7 day avg of deaths in CT (4x’s higher now then same time last year) so🤞it doesn’t follow the same seasonality trend line as 12 months ago.

I should have been more clear in my original post.  Hovering around record highs/breaking record highs despite a great vaccination rate are being seen in Vermont and Maine with worrying trends in CT and MA along with WI, MN, MI and those states just coming up on their indoor seasons.  I should have been more careful, my apologies.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 11:47:28 AM

Just be honest.... 

You are discounting her because of her political affiliation and that's about it.  You have no idea about the quality of her dissertation.

No, I'm not.  I know what education courses are like both undergrad and postgrad and her political affiliation has nothing to do with my point of view..  But if it did I would "discount" 99% of professors on the planet which is patently false.   Uh-huh, she could have written a brilliant dissertation.  That's great.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
And as you know I clarified/apologized for the broad brush generalizations of “record surge”.

If you want to categorize going from 70 cases a day to 450-500 a day over the last 4 months a statistical increase that’s fair I’m just cautioning of what the fall/winter months might have in store for the northeast/Midwest.  CT’s 7 day avg of positive cases in early October of this year is higher then at the same point in October of 2020, same with 7 day avg of deaths in CT (4x’s higher now then same time last year) so🤞it doesn’t follow the same seasonality trend line as 12 months ago.

I should have been more clear in my original post.  Hovering around record highs/breaking record highs despite a great vaccination rate are being seen in Vermont and Maine with worrying trends in CT and MA along with WI, MN, MI and those states just coming up on their indoor seasons.  I should have been more careful, my apologies.

Why the red?

Anyhow, I don't think it's going out on much of a limb to say cases might rise when people are stuck indoors. But that's still a far cry from suggesting that Northern/Midwestern states are due for a Florida-like surge. And I would be stunned if we see the death totals approach what we saw in Florida in late August and September.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 18, 2021, 11:55:22 AM
No, I'm not.  I know what education courses are like both undergrad and postgrad and her political affiliation has nothing to do with my point of view..  But if it did I would "discount" 99% of professors on the planet which is patently false.   Uh-huh, she could have written a brilliant dissertation.  That's great.


I wasn't quoting you.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 12:03:24 PM
Fluffy, I know you said Biden "made a mistake" by not wearing a mask with a DC mandate but don't you think it goes beyond that?  Like seriously how freaking dumb do you have to be to do this with all of his masked Zoom conferences?  Is it conceivable he chose to go maskless to outdo the inauthenticity of Kamala and her little space talk with the kids....I mean actors?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 12:03:50 PM
Why the red?

Anyhow, I don't think it's going out on much of a limb to say cases might rise when people are stuck indoors. But that's still a far cry from suggesting that Northern/Midwestern states are due for a Florida-like surge. And I would be stunned if we see the death totals approach what we saw in Florida in late August and September.

Out of curiosity why would it shock you?  Florida was top 10 I believe in vaccination rate for their 65+ population and still got ravaged.  I’m hoping you’re right of course but would be far from shocked.  Red was an effort to show what my post was back then 🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 18, 2021, 12:07:30 PM
Fluffy, I know you said Biden "made a mistake" by not wearing a mask with a DC mandate but don't you think it goes beyond that?  Like seriously how freaking dumb do you have to be to do this with all of his masked Zoom conferences?  Is it conceivable he chose to go maskless to outdo the inauthenticity of Kamala and her little space talk with the kids....I mean actors?

Kamala and the actors genuinely bothered me. I hope it was aids who made the choice and not her but either way someone they hold in high regard did it and it's bad.

The masks thing not nearly as much, we've all forgotten or skirted the rules here or there. I'm as disappointed in him as I am of myself when it's happened  but not going to throw him to the wolves or make it out to be a bigger thing than it is.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 12:10:40 PM
Kamala and the actors genuinely bothered me.

The masks thing not nearly as much, we've all forgotten or skirted the rules here or there. I'm as disappointed in him as I am of myself when it's happened  but not going to throw him to the wolves or make it out to be a bigger thing than it is.

I get that somewhat but it's still astounding to me he or his team wouldn't recognize he forgot or whatever happened.  It's just weird to me Galway. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 18, 2021, 12:15:58 PM
Fluffy, I know you said Biden "made a mistake" by not wearing a mask with a DC mandate but don't you think it goes beyond that?  Like seriously how freaking dumb do you have to be to do this with all of his masked Zoom conferences?  Is it conceivable he chose to go maskless to outdo the inauthenticity of Kamala and her little space talk with the kids....I mean actors?

I have no idea what you are talking about with the VP.

But I think the Biden’s have been pretty good with mask wearing so I’m just writing this incident off as a mistake.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 12:23:48 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about with the VP.

But I think the Biden’s have been pretty good with mask wearing so I’m just writing this incident off as a mistake.

You're too kind Fluffy.  More power to you, I can hold grudges.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 18, 2021, 12:24:48 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about with the VP.

But I think the Biden’s have been pretty good with mask wearing so I’m just writing this incident off as a mistake.

Harris made a weird video where she claimed she was talking about NASA and Space to kids who were really enthusiastic about science but it turned out that it was a group of child actors. Not a good look 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 18, 2021, 12:35:32 PM
Actually it isn't  silly.  The designation is silly. Education or any humanities professor do not consider themselves "legitimate doctors" unless they're  crazy smug and delusional.  Do you actually think real doctors believe there is no difference between them and their work vs a academic doctor?    Please.

My mother is a Doctor of Education, and has always referred to herself as such.  You're grasping at really weird straws here, Mugs.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 18, 2021, 12:37:33 PM
She's a fookin' joke and a disaster. Basically duzant no her ass from a hole in da ground, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 18, 2021, 12:37:38 PM
Galway, you're a smart person.  I'm simply pointing out there is a vast difference between a doctor of medicine and a doctor academic.  Both sides are more than well aware of this fact regardless of "definitions".  Now maybe it doesn't bother anyone and that's fine but it's odd for Academic professors, from my experience, to refer to themselves as Dr. so-and-so.  My brother-in-law is an Anthropology prof and I have never, in any social setting, heard my sister introduce himself as Dr. or him refer to himself as Dr.  I know many, many, other profs with PHD'S in a variety of fields, that also do not use this distinction unless in the classroom.  But whatever.  I do feel for Jill Biden.

So let's do degrees of doctors like we do degrees of black belt so you can move on to the next manufactured outrage.

lmao.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 18, 2021, 12:39:36 PM
I would just like mugs to clarify if we can call a DDS a Dr, or is it reserved for MDs?  ;D
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 18, 2021, 12:40:56 PM

Just be honest.... 

You are discounting her because of her political affiliation and that's about it.  You have no idea about the quality of her dissertation.
100%  If she was Dr. Jill Trump, we all know how he'd respond.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 18, 2021, 12:43:36 PM
I refer to my chiropractor and dentist as 'Doc.'    The weather is warm, and yet we have a veritable blizzard of snowflakes today.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 18, 2021, 12:46:11 PM
I would just like mugs to clarify if we can call a DDS a Dr, or is it reserved for MDs?  ;D


Dude, let's kall a tuba playa, a tuba playa. Lotsa frustrated doctors on dis bored, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 18, 2021, 01:08:42 PM
I would just like mugs to clarify if we can call a DDS a Dr, or is it reserved for MDs?  ;D

I never call my dentist, Dr.  They haven’t earned that title. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 01:10:14 PM
I would just like mugs to clarify if we can call a DDS a Dr, or is it reserved for MDs?  ;D

I call my dentist doctor Rocky.  Let's not compare Dr.Jill to my outstanding dentist who is extremely gifted and talented in a variety of fields.  She's also a businesswoman and artist.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 18, 2021, 01:33:37 PM
I call my dentist doctor Rocky.  Let's not compare Dr.Jill to my outstanding dentist who is extremely gifted and talented in a variety of fields.  She's also a businesswoman and artist.

Pharmacist? Psychologist? I'm waiting for definitive parameters on how involved in medicine they have to be and in what positions to have earned this right because as it is you seem to be making arbitrary rules for who is and isnt
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 18, 2021, 01:45:45 PM
Since Dr is now arbitrary I'm just gonna call my NP or PA a doctor now and call my radiologist by their first name. Screw it maybe I'll call my RN doctor as well
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 18, 2021, 01:47:29 PM
Yes, I agree with your points regarding reviewing her dissertation and questioning the validity of her degree. To me though, it was up to U of Delaware to decide whether or not it met their standards and whether awarding her a doctorate cheapened the accomplishment as a whole.

In a similar light, does awarding MPS grads a diploma who can barely write a paper cheapen the degree of someone who graduates from say Homestead? Does university of Phoenix online BA/BS cheapen the degree of IVY league grads?

The point I'm making is I don't think it necessarily cheapens the title of Dr or any Medical or non Medical carrier of that title. What it does is cheapen the degrees of any University of Delaware grads who genuinely worked hard to receive their degree.

I think people get degrees for all sorts of reasons and she wouldn't be the first or the last to do it purely for title and you aren't the first or last to drop the Dr when not needed.

i guess, getting a degree or a diploma is a baseline.  after that, the free market usually decides.  we can all show a piece of paper, but when the rubber hits the road, is the person qualified for fill in the blank position.  for us, first or last in the class, we  get tested with every patient we see.

btw, guys like rico get a little letter telling them to go somewhere else. 

let me get this straight...rico sees a dentist or denturist or whatever whom he doesn't think is qualified?  sounds about right.  surprised you still have any teeth left?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on October 18, 2021, 01:58:35 PM
i guess, getting a degree or a diploma is a baseline.  after that, the free market usually decides.  we can all show a piece of paper, but when the rubber hits the road, is the person qualified for fill in the blank position.  for us, first or last in the class, we  get tested with every patient we see.

btw, guys like rico get a little letter telling them to go somewhere else. 

let me get this straight...rico sees a dentist or denturist or whatever whom he doesn't think is qualified?  sounds about right.  surprised you still have any teeth left?

Dental hygienists do all the work anyway.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 18, 2021, 02:43:01 PM
Dental hygienists do all the work anyway.

I always thank my dental hygienist for a job well done.  When I see my family doctor, I always thank him, too.  The dentist?  That one minute they spend poking around?  Hard pass
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 18, 2021, 03:05:54 PM
This has become quite an amusing thread. Well done, everybody.

And yes, pace, DeSantis has the unnecessary deaths of thousands of Floridians on his hands. He actively, aggressively worked to undermine vaccines and mitigation techniques that have proved to save lives, all for the sake of scoring political points.

Thanks for asking!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 18, 2021, 05:03:31 PM
For the record, the following people have called John McAdams, "Dr. McAdams"

Galway Eagle
Fluffy Blue Monster
dgies9156
Billy Holy
rocket ALM surgeon
Eldon
Ellenson Guerrero
keefe (rip)
ChicosBailBonds
classof2k

Just for FULL transparancy.

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo which is it, rocks for brains? 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 18, 2021, 05:33:41 PM
She's a fookin' joke and a disaster. Basically duzant no her ass from a hole in da ground, hey?

Thats no way to talk about Hards' mom, hey.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
100%  If she was Dr. Jill Trump, we all know how he'd respond.

Not true at all.  You're grasping at straws but give your mom a hug. Why don't you search and see if you find one single positive comment I made about Donald Trump.  I'll save you the time, I haven't.  This is a fact despite many scoopers labeling me as a Trump-humper.  Don't blame me for Trump being a disaster but his successor being monumentally worse. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 05:46:56 PM
This has become quite an amusing thread. Well done, everybody.

And yes, pace, DeSantis has the unnecessary deaths of thousands of Floridians on his hands. He actively, aggressively worked to undermine vaccines and mitigation techniques that have proved to save lives, all for the sake of scoring political points.

Thanks for asking!

Is Cuomo responsible for any COVID deaths in NYC.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 05:56:49 PM
Harris made a weird video where she claimed she was talking about NASA and Space to kids who were really enthusiastic about science but it turned out that it was a group of child actors. Not a good look

It was actually worse than that because she was talking to these 10-12 year old kids as if they were 4.  It was weird and awkward as fk even beyond them being actors. But if they were not actors the kids would have looked at her like she's a whack job. Even though they are  kid actors, they should get some sort of freedom medal for enduring the whole thing and not vomiting.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on October 18, 2021, 06:02:53 PM
Is Cuomo responsible for any COVID deaths in NYC.

Yes.  A lot of them as a matter of fact.  His handling of nursing homes was an abject failure and he should be held accountable for that.  His being championed as a covid leader was a disgrace and a lesson no one will heed
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 18, 2021, 06:13:05 PM
Not true at all.  You're grasping at straws but give your mom a hug. Why don't you search and see if you find one single positive comment I made about Donald Trump.  I'll save you the time, I haven't.  This is a fact despite many scoopers labeling me as a Trump-humper.  Don't blame me for Trump being a disaster but his successor being monumentally worse.

That was directed at rockforbrains, but go off, king.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 18, 2021, 06:13:53 PM
Thats no way to talk about Hards' mom, hey.

You heard I posted about something and came running, got it.  ;)

sweeeeeeeeeatyyyyyyyy
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 06:14:40 PM
That was directed at rockforbrains, but go off, king.

Oh, my bad. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 18, 2021, 06:15:55 PM
Oh, my bad.

All good, my man.  I'm only a first degree doctor anyway, so I still make mistakes, too.   :P
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on October 18, 2021, 06:36:20 PM
I find it funny that we have a multi-page discussion of who earned the title doctor. For the record, I never insist on anyone referring to me as Dr., and almost never use the title for any purpose, even professional purposes. Frankly, the only place the title should be used is at a medical workplace where the title differentiates staff and roles in medicine.

For me as a PhD, in any professional environment, I'm already well known by everyone, so the title serves no benefit, my name is a better indicator of my accomplishments. When young people in my field see my name, they immediately know what I've done, there is no need for a title of authority.

But just because I find this area fascinating I'll chime in a bit.

Actually it isn't  silly.  The designation is silly. Education or any humanities professor do not consider themselves "legitimate doctors" unless they're  crazy smug and delusional.  Do you actually think real doctors believe there is no difference between them and their work vs a academic doctor?    Please.

Love the "real doctors" reference. The origin of the word doctor is from latin, it means to teach. It was originally used to refer to the eminent scholars of a field, who were well suited to teach. It later was used to refer to teachers at Universities. The first formal doctorate degrees were actually in divinity, so neither PhD's or MDs can claim the original "real doctor" title.

Physicians, or medical professionals, thinking an MD is a "real doctor" are narcissists with superiority complexes. A good MD, like a good PhD don't care about titles.

There is an exception. Typically women MD's and PhD's are more likely to insist on the title, that is often because, despite being in charge they are often dismissed by peers and outside individuals as "assistants" or "nurses" or somehow not their peers' equivalent, simply because they are a woman. That is not narcissism...it is demanding equal respect.

When you suddenly attack a woman for insisting on the use of the title they earned, it is a very bad look.

If you polled 1000 academics who have a PHD in a humanities discipline, and asked which field is the easiest as far as getting a doctorate, I would bet the only ones who would not say Education are the Education professors. 

You'd be wrong though. The completion rate for humanities PhD's is around 50%. The completion rate of medical school is 96%. That means 96% of the people who enroll in medical school get their degree, by far the highest rate of completion amongst all Doctorate granting degrees.

The difference between the person at the top of the medical class, and bottom of the class is massive...but they all earned the title doctor. Same for every PhD or EdD, not all dissertations are equal, but all have earned the title of doctor. A lay person having an issue with someone using the title they earned reeks of an inferiority complex.



Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on October 18, 2021, 06:41:37 PM
Is Cuomo responsible for any COVID deaths in NYC.
Hell yes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 18, 2021, 06:46:33 PM
Is Cuomo responsible for any COVID deaths in NYC.
Yes.  Mismanaged the nursing homes.   Glad he was accountable for sexual harassment   .   I hold him to the same standard that I held Trump.   The country is better with them both out of office
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on October 18, 2021, 06:54:27 PM
A good MD, like a good PhD don't care about titles.

There is an exception. Typically women MD's and PhD's are more likely to insist on the title, that is often because, despite being in charge they are often dismissed by peers and outside individuals as "assistants" or "nurses" or somehow not their peers' equivalent, simply because they are a woman. That is not narcissism...it is demanding equal respect.

When you suddenly attack a woman for insisting on the use of the title they earned, it is a very bad look.

The difference between the person at the top of the medical class, and bottom of the class is massive...but they all earned the title doctor. Same for every PhD or EdD, not all dissertations are equal, but all have earned the title of doctor. A lay person having an issue with someone using the title they earned reeks of an inferiority complex.

Lot of good stuff in here.  I grew up with a lot of doctors.  For whatever reason, my neighborhood growing up was very popular with young doctors in the (formerly) Aurora system fresh out of residency.  I remember multiple times saying to a parent "Mr" or "Mrs So and so" and being like "oops, I mean Doctor" and to a person they would usually laugh and say either is fine.  The only people I knew who were super insistent about their title in a non professional setting were usually unpleasant or cantankerous people otherwise, especially with children.  Or the principal at my grade school who would scold kids severely if not called Doctor and would use it as a weird prop at parent teacher conferences.

But they all earned the title, no matter what school, specialty, or program.  I think the funniest though was a guy who worked with my Dad on the earliest iteration of his company.  He was, at that time in the mid 90s, one of the top few back surgeons in the US.  He introduced and always referred himself to me (as a young teen) and every one else in his personal life by his first name.  "I have everyone all day in the hospital, the office, the operating room, calling my house calling me Dr. X, it's nice to hear my actual name for a change".

If you have an issue with someone as it relates to their title, have an issue with them being a tool or whatever otherwise, no need to disparage their accomplishment or earned credential.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 18, 2021, 06:56:20 PM
Yep.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 18, 2021, 07:21:37 PM
You heard I posted about something and came running, got it.  ;)

sweeeeeeeeeatyyyyyyyy

Sorry, I read the board and responded.  That's kinda how it works.

And the kids don't say "sweaty" anymore, but nice try on being hip.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 07:29:58 PM
I find it funny that we have a multi-page discussion of who earned the title doctor. For the record, I never insist on anyone referring to me as Dr., and almost never use the title for any purpose, even professional purposes. Frankly, the only place the title should be used is at a medical workplace where the title differentiates staff and roles in medicine.

For me as a PhD, in any professional environment, I'm already well known by everyone, so the title serves no benefit, my name is a better indicator of my accomplishments. When young people in my field see my name, they immediately know what I've done, there is no need for a title of authority.

But just because I find this area fascinating I'll chime in a bit.

Love the "real doctors" reference. The origin of the word doctor is from latin, it means to teach. It was originally used to refer to the eminent scholars of a field, who were well suited to teach. It later was used to refer to teachers at Universities. The first formal doctorate degrees were actually in divinity, so neither PhD's or MDs can claim the original "real doctor" title.

Physicians, or medical professionals, thinking an MD is a "real doctor" are narcissists with superiority complexes. A good MD, like a good PhD don't care about titles.

There is an exception. Typically women MD's and PhD's are more likely to insist on the title, that is often because, despite being in charge they are often dismissed by peers and outside individuals as "assistants" or "nurses" or somehow not their peers' equivalent, simply because they are a woman. That is not narcissism...it is demanding equal respect.

When you suddenly attack a woman for insisting on the use of the title they earned, it is a very bad look.

You'd be wrong though. The completion rate for humanities PhD's is around 50%. The completion rate of medical school is 96%. That means 96% of the people who enroll in medical school get their degree, by far the highest rate of completion amongst all Doctorate granting degrees.

The difference between the person at the top of the medical class, and bottom of the class is massive...but they all earned the title doctor. Same for every PhD or EdD, not all dissertations are equal, but all have earned the title of doctor. A lay person having an issue with someone using the title they earned reeks of an inferiority complex.

Thank you for your comments.  But I'd be interested to know the specifics of completion of phd rates per humanities in all disciplines.  Is the 50% those who enter PhD programs and don't finish for whatever reason or are all grad students pursuing Master's including in this number because some choose to continue?  There also could be financial reasons as to why some don't complete their PHD.  Lastly, I would not group the humanities with a broad brush.  Some fields are far more challenging imao.  Getting a PHD in Classics for example doesn't sound like a walk in the park.  No one disputes a Classics prof is a scholar among many other disciplines.  Education profs??  I'm curious what the honest take is there and I'm not attacking anyone.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on October 18, 2021, 08:12:16 PM
Yes.  A lot of them as a matter of fact.  His handling of nursing homes was an abject failure and he should be held accountable for that.  His being championed as a covid leader was a disgrace and a lesson no one will heed

Then I’m guessing you think Whitmer should also be held accountable/voted out?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2021/03/11/michigan-gov-whitmer-stands-by-covid-nursing-home-policy-amid-threats-of-legal-action/%3foutputType=amp
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on October 18, 2021, 09:33:39 PM
Thank you for your comments.  But I'd be interested to know the specifics of completion of phd rates per humanities in all disciplines.  Is the 50% those who enter PhD programs and don't finish for whatever reason or are all grad students pursuing Master's including in this number because some choose to continue?  There also could be financial reasons as to why some don't complete their PHD.  Lastly, I would not group the humanities with a broad brush.  Some fields are far more challenging imao.  Getting a PHD in Classics for example doesn't sound like a walk in the park.  No one disputes a Classics prof is a scholar among many other disciplines.  Education profs??  I'm curious what the honest take is there and I'm not attacking anyone.

The 50% is those who apply and enroll as PhD students, who fail to complete their degree in 8-years. Often they fail to complete it, simply because researching, writing, and defending a dissertation is immensely hard.

For the humanities, the highest completion rates are in Theatre and performance studies (55.6%), and the lowest in Languages, Societies, and Cuutres (33.3%)...at least for one study.

https://www.amacad.org/humanities-indicators/higher-education/attrition-humanities-doctorate-programs (https://www.amacad.org/humanities-indicators/higher-education/attrition-humanities-doctorate-programs)

Now there are two Doctorate level degrees in education, a PhD in education, and an EdD, the former is for those interested in staying in academia, the latter is a professional degree just like medicine, law, dentistry, etc. It is designed essentially for those who want to stay in educational leadership.

Beyond that, it is not for me to judge the relative merits of each. Fact of the matter is we need educators, and education, and the PhD in education and EdD train these individuals at the highest level. I'll let their own respective communities police the merits of those granting the degrees, and respect those who have completed the requirements.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 09:59:29 PM
The 50% is those who apply and enroll as PhD students, who fail to complete their degree in 8-years. Often they fail to complete it, simply because researching, writing, and defending a dissertation is immensely hard.

For the humanities, the highest completion rates are in Theatre and performance studies (55.6%), and the lowest in Languages, Societies, and Cuutres (33.3%)...at least for one study.

https://www.amacad.org/humanities-indicators/higher-education/attrition-humanities-doctorate-programs (https://www.amacad.org/humanities-indicators/higher-education/attrition-humanities-doctorate-programs)

Now there are two Doctorate level degrees in education, a PhD in education, and an EdD, the former is for those interested in staying in academia, the latter is a professional degree just like medicine, law, dentistry, etc. It is designed essentially for those who want to stay in educational leadership.

Beyond that, it is not for me to judge the relative merits of each. Fact of the matter is we need educators, and education, and the PhD in education and EdD train these individuals at the highest level. I'll let their own respective communities police the merits of those granting the degrees, and respect those who have completed the requirements.

Would you agree that there are certain humanities degrees that are more scholarly than anything studied in Education classes?  Like say you are Phil PHD with an expertise in Nietzsche?  Am I being an ass by saying these people are more scholarly?  I can't understand his stuff at all.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 18, 2021, 10:06:27 PM
Is Cuomo responsible for any COVID deaths in NYC.

Of course.

And like DeSantis, Cuomo tried to cover up the way he mishandled COVID-19 in his state. And actually worse than DeSantis, he tried to pass himself off as the Great Covid Mastermind.

But again, DeSantis and Abbott have blood on their hands for actively, aggressively trying (and succeeding) to undermine COVID-19 vaccination efforts and mask-wearing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 18, 2021, 10:26:34 PM
Sorry, I read the board and responded.  That's kinda how it works.

And the kids don't say "sweaty" anymore, but nice try on being hip.

Thanks for the update, pops!

Also, keep sweating me, sweaty.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 18, 2021, 10:26:50 PM
Would you agree that there are certain humanities degrees that are more scholarly than anything studied in Education classes?  Like say you are Phil PHD with an expertise in Nietzsche?  Am I being an ass by saying these people are more scholarly?  I can't understand his stuff at all.

I don't know if you're being an ass, but you're definitely being ridiculous.
I mean, it's a lot harder to become a neurosurgeon than a family practitioner, but they're both doctors, right? We don't go around insisting one is more "doctor" than the other because their field is more challenging.
You're trying to create completely arbitrary caste system among people with doctorates for no purpose other than to defend your unnecessary, mean-spirited and politically motivated denigration of one person.
So, yeah, maybe you are being an ass.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 10:27:13 PM
Of course.

And like DeSantis, Cuomo tried to cover up the way he mishandled COVID-19 in his state. And actually worse than DeSantis, he tried to pass himself off as the Great Covid Mastermind.

But again, DeSantis and Abbott have blood on their hands for actively, aggressively trying (and succeeding) to undermine COVID-19 vaccination efforts and mask-wearing.

I've never understood this obsession state to state about how the Governors are handling COVID.  There have been times when Blue states have done better statistically and vice versa.  Both before and after vaccinations.  But if you look at the 10 most populated states right now the numbers per capita are not drastically different.

Also, there have been Weatern European countries that have been far more rigid than the USA, especially with mask mandates, and they have gotten resurgences and pretty heavy numbers. We're dealing with a virus that's endemic and unlike say Taiwan and Singapore we responded much later and were unprepared.  Maybe it's me but Democrat Gov's, competing with Republican Gov's, over death rates and hospitalizations, seems incredibly divisive and stupid. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 18, 2021, 10:28:17 PM
Would you agree that there are certain humanities degrees that are more scholarly than anything studied in Education classes?  Like say you are Phil PHD with an expertise in Nietzsche?  Am I being an ass by saying these people are more scholarly?  I can't understand his stuff at all.

How about we just call people who complete doctorate programs, Doctors. 

Like the rest of society.  We can argue the merits, but if we haven't completed the requisites MAYBE we should sit this one out.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MuggsyB on October 18, 2021, 10:29:16 PM
How about we just call people who complete doctorate programs, Doctors. 

Like the rest of society.  We can argue the merits, but if we haven't completed the requisites MAYBE we should sit this one out.

That's fine but I think we should exclude Jill Biden.  :)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 18, 2021, 10:30:23 PM
That's fine but I think we should exclude Jill Biden.  :)

For what reason, exactly?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on October 18, 2021, 10:39:34 PM
I've never understood this obsession state to state about how the Governors are handling COVID.  There have been times when Blue states have done better statistically and vice versa.  Both before and after vaccinations.  But if you look at the 10 most populated states right now the numbers per capita are not drastically different.

Also, there have been Weatern European countries that have been far more rigid than the USA, especially with mask mandates, and they have gotten resurgences and pretty heavy numbers. We're dealing with a virus that's endemic and unlike say Taiwan and Singapore we responded much later and were unprepared.  Maybe it's me but Democrat Gov's, competing with Republican Gov's, over death rates and hospitalizations, seems incredibly divisive and stupid.

Muggs, in DeSantis and Abbott, you have two governors who weren't simply indifferent to the vaccine and masks. They actually signed executive orders barring private companies, schools, etc, from trying to protect their employees, customers, teachers, students, families, etc. It would be like if a governor told a restaurant owner, "I just signed an executive order barring you from enforcing 'No shirt, no shoes, no service.' From this day forward, you must allow diners to come in with bare feet."

DeSantis and Abbott made the conscious, brazenly political decision to appeal to their base -- the kind of nuts who show up at rallies and boo the mere mention of COVID-19 vaccines, or scream at people who wear masks. These "leaders" have actively, aggressively undermined distribution of a life-saving vaccine, and they've done it only for political gain. It's pretty sad.

As for Cuomo, he was a fraud who made things worse for the residents of his state. He deserves to be mocked, and he might deserve to go to jail.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: SERocks on October 19, 2021, 07:35:41 AM
How about we just call people who complete doctorate programs, Doctors.

I have a JD.   You can refer to me as Dr. if you wish.  Or not.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 19, 2021, 09:58:54 AM
I have a JD.   You can refer to me as Dr. if you wish.  Or not.

So Dr Rocks, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on October 19, 2021, 06:08:53 PM


Jill Biden has the same degree as Bill Cosby. Both of them have referred to themselves as "Dr.", even though the degree was not directly related to their current profession.

 If you are going to call one of them "Doctor", you should refer to the other one by the same.

FTR, I think that anyone who insists on being called Doctor in non-professional situations is a pompous ass.  That includes MDs and Dentists. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 19, 2021, 07:21:45 PM

Jill Biden has the same degree as Bill Cosby. Both of them have referred to themselves as "Dr.", even though the degree was not directly related to their current profession.

 If you are going to call one of them "Doctor", you should refer to the other one by the same.

FTR, I think that anyone who insists on being called Doctor in non-professional situations is a pompous ass.  That includes MDs and Dentists. 

I think people who get bent out of shape over what titles people want to use are annoying.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 19, 2021, 08:14:09 PM
Folks like Dr. Dre, Dr. J, Doc Rivers, and Dr. Doolittle are da reel doktors. Neva new der were so many frustrated doctors on this board. If ya can't be with the one you love, love da one you're with, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on October 19, 2021, 08:29:11 PM
I think people who get bent out of shape over what titles people want to use are annoying.

I don't get bent out of shape. I just roll my eyes when it happens.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 19, 2021, 08:36:19 PM
I don't get bent out of shape. I just roll my eyes when it happens.

🙄🙄🙄
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Lennys Tap on October 20, 2021, 10:01:04 AM
I think people who get bent out of shape over what titles people want to use are annoying.

Coming from a self proclaimed Sultan I’m not particularly surprised.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 20, 2021, 10:40:50 AM
Coming from a self proclaimed Sultan I’m not particularly surprised.

outdated response, now he's a self proclaimed Fluffy Blue Monster.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on October 20, 2021, 11:09:56 AM
outdated response, now he's a self proclaimed Fluffy Blue Monster.

I've heard he isn't even fluffy or blue and is simply claiming untrue titles.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on October 20, 2021, 11:20:41 AM
I've heard he isn't even fluffy or blue and is simply claiming untrue titles.

this implies you believe is is, in fact, a monster though.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 20, 2021, 12:15:57 PM
I am not blue.  I am not a monster.

I might be fluffy depending on how you define the word.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on October 20, 2021, 12:17:46 PM
this implies you believe is is, in fact, a monster though.

Or I'm just forgetful, and forgot the third element.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 20, 2021, 12:31:44 PM

I might be fluffy depending on how you define the word.

Manscape.com
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 20, 2021, 01:20:40 PM
May he he means it in the Gabriel Iglesias context.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on October 20, 2021, 02:26:00 PM
Fluffy BM seems about write, aina?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on October 21, 2021, 09:20:31 PM
Latest mask silliness-

Today I witnessed several incidences of people wearing masks while bicycling in Yosemite National Park.  In every case, they were at least 50 feet away from any other person.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 21, 2021, 09:55:47 PM
Latest mask silliness-

Today I witnessed several incidences of people wearing masks while bicycling in Yosemite National Park.  In every case, they were at least 50 feet away from any other person.

1. Why were they wearing the masks?
2. Why do you care?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on October 22, 2021, 08:48:59 AM
1. Why were they wearing the masks?
2. Why do you care?

I don't, except for purposes of my own amusement.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Galway Eagle on October 22, 2021, 08:52:54 AM
Latest mask silliness-

Today I witnessed several incidences of people wearing masks while bicycling in Yosemite National Park.  In every case, they were at least 50 feet away from any other person.

Maybe they're K Pop fans? Masks were in for that subculture before Covid.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 22, 2021, 09:22:07 AM
I don't, except for purposes of my own amusement.

You're in Yosemite, and your chosen source of amusement is mocking people who may be acting with a little too much caution?
To each their own, but maybe look around a bit. You might see things more worthy of your amusement.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on October 22, 2021, 11:11:41 AM
You're in Yosemite, and your chosen source of amusement is mocking people who may be acting with a little too much caution?
To each their own, but maybe look around a bit. You might see things more worthy of your amusement.

"Cameron is so tight, that is you stuck a lump of coal up his ass, and twisted, you'd have a diamond."

You are Cameron.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: naginiF on October 22, 2021, 11:23:31 AM
"Cameron is so tight, that is you stuck a lump of coal up his ass, and twisted, you'd have a diamond."

You are Cameron.
This you?

Saw a new one in Madison today.  Guy on a motorcycle, solo, wearing a helmet with a full faceshield (clear).  So he was protected from bugs and other road debris. 

Also had a covid mask on under the faceshield.  Illogical.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on October 22, 2021, 11:41:10 AM
"Cameron is so tight, that is you stuck a lump of coal up his ass, and twisted, you'd have a diamond."

You are Cameron.

Better Cameron than Principal Rooney, right Ed?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on October 22, 2021, 01:12:04 PM
Latest mask silliness-

Today I witnessed several incidences of people wearing masks while bicycling in Yosemite National Park.  In every case, they were at least 50 feet away from any other person.

Check out this silly man wearing a mask while running.

https://www.oregonlive.com/trackandfield/2011/06/caption_required_galen_rupp_ma.html (https://www.oregonlive.com/trackandfield/2011/06/caption_required_galen_rupp_ma.html)

If you don't want to click, it is Galen Rupp (an Olympian) in 2011. He ran in a mask often because of allergies and sensitivities to particles that induced asthma. There are others like this, that wear masks when exercising because of non-COVID health issues.

I've known people that have discovered they have similar sensitivities post COVID and wear a mask when exercising outdoors (in spring and fall). So these people may have been doing something similar.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 22, 2021, 05:26:40 PM
I was walking on the lakefront in Chicago this summer, and sand was blowing lightly around - it did help to put on my mask. I’ve done it a couple times now when I can feel something irritating my nose and it does help.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 22, 2021, 08:13:47 PM
This you?

My favorite type of burn.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on October 22, 2021, 09:30:17 PM
You're in Yosemite, and your chosen source of amusement is mocking people who may be acting with a little too much caution?
To each their own, but maybe look around a bit. You might see things more worthy of your amusement.

i doubt she ran up to them, pointed and laughed...just a shake your head moment.  that's what i love about vegas-people watching and many a "shake your head" moments
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: real chili 83 on October 24, 2021, 10:50:19 AM
Latest mask silliness-

Today I witnessed several incidences of people wearing masks while bicycling in Yosemite National Park.  In every case, they were at least 50 feet away from any other person.

Tops is folks who wear a mask while in a car alone.  😱😱😱
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 24, 2021, 10:59:45 AM
Meh.  Going errand to errand at places that warrant or require masks.    Simpler to leave it on.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jfmu on October 25, 2021, 12:26:57 PM
Meh.  Going errand to errand at places that warrant or require masks.    Simpler to leave it on.

You forgot the teal...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 25, 2021, 12:41:32 PM
Nope. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on October 25, 2021, 01:52:00 PM
Nope.

Yeah, but have you seen the weirdos that wear socks...in the SUMMER!?!?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 25, 2021, 02:01:25 PM
With sandals?!?!?!?!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 25, 2021, 02:47:39 PM
My friend and I were going in and out of places at Open House Chicago. Sometimes it was easier to leave the mask on, and sometimes one of us would plain forget it was on. Same thing happened when we followed a mural walk app this summer.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on October 25, 2021, 04:48:46 PM
My friend and I were going in and out of places at Open House Chicago. Sometimes it was easier to leave the mask on, and sometimes one of us would plain forget it was on. Same thing happened when we followed a mural walk app this summer.

But thats a bit different than going into a store, out into your car, driving somewhere else...

Listen, if people want to wear them all the time, thats fine.  Maybe you forget once and awhile, I don't get it, but hey. 

But the idea that is "easier" to never take it off when driving around is what seems silly to some.

But then again Ive heard multiple people say they would be fine always wearing a mask on a plane or public transportation in the future, so who the F knows.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on October 25, 2021, 05:06:38 PM
But thats a bit different than going into a store, out into your car, driving somewhere else...

Listen, if people want to wear them all the time, thats fine.  Maybe you forget once and awhile, I don't get it, but hey. 

But the idea that is "easier" to never take it off when driving around is what seems silly to some.

But then again Ive heard multiple people say they would be fine always wearing a mask on a plane or public transportation in the future, so who the F knows.


Right, but why do people want to label this as "silliness."  If someone wants to wear a mask, just let them do so.  They don't need to be judged.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 25, 2021, 05:15:42 PM
But thats a bit different than going into a store, out into your car, driving somewhere else...

Listen, if people want to wear them all the time, thats fine.  Maybe you forget once and awhile, I don't get it, but hey. 

But the idea that is "easier" to never take it off when driving around is what seems silly to some.

But then again Ive heard multiple people say they would be fine always wearing a mask on a plane or public transportation in the future, so who the F knows.

It had not occurred to me to do so before now,  but perhaps I will start to drive around with a mask on just to see what kind of road rage that could engender.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on October 25, 2021, 05:27:20 PM
🤣🤣tower
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on October 25, 2021, 05:44:32 PM

Right, but why do people want to label this as "silliness."  If someone wants to wear a mask, just let them do so.  They don't need to be judged.

I guess its because we've spent the last 18 months with some blend of very necessary caution, fear mongering, some excess of caution, and a whole lot of virtue signaling (WEAR A MASK!) that when we're in a position where lots of mask wearing has subsided, stuff that feels excessive is reminiscent of daily news items that sought to terrify people for eyeballs and had people wearing 2 masks and a faceshield to get the paper.

There is plenty of non-COVID stuff that people do that is illogical or silly to many people yet nobody feels the need to go out of the way to justify it.  And the idea that "oh they are protecting themselves and others" just seems excessive and this whole need to push back against the anti-mask/anti-vaxx crowd.  In my experience, the ones still with overabundance of caution are also the most vocal complaining about the actions of everyone else not mirroring their caution, some in my own extended family.

It had not occurred to me to do so before now,  but perhaps I will start to drive around with a mask on just to see what kind of road rage that could engender.

Enjoy!  And be sure to post complaining about anyone that makes a comment or gives you a look!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on October 25, 2021, 06:02:20 PM
No complaining.  Stories.  Unless they shoot me.  In which case, enjoy the silence.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on October 25, 2021, 06:10:03 PM
But thats a bit different than going into a store, out into your car, driving somewhere else...

Listen, if people want to wear them all the time, thats fine.  Maybe you forget once and awhile, I don't get it, but hey. 

But the idea that is "easier" to never take it off when driving around is what seems silly to some.

But then again Ive heard multiple people say they would be fine always wearing a mask on a plane or public transportation in the future, so who the F knows.

When I'm not required to wear one, I can't wait to rip mine off my face.  I will never understand wearing a mask alone in your car.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on November 10, 2021, 09:36:27 PM
Federal judge says Abbott had no right to ban mask mandates in schools. Because, of course he didn't.

It would be nice if the governors of Texas and Florida actually worked as hard to keep their residents safe as they do to put them in harm's way.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on November 11, 2021, 03:32:40 AM
Federal judge says Abbott had no right to ban mask mandates in schools. Because, of course he didn't.

It would be nice if the governors of Texas and Florida actually worked as hard to keep their residents safe as they do to put them in harm's way.

if he said NO MASKS ALLOWED, that would be putting people in harms way.  oh, and whatever happened to follow the science. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on November 11, 2021, 04:47:53 AM
if he said NO MASKS ALLOWED, that would be putting people in harms way.  oh, and whatever happened to follow the science.

What does the science say about masks?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 11, 2021, 07:56:28 AM
oh, and whatever happened to follow the science.
You mean like the science on ivermectin?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on November 11, 2021, 10:49:55 AM
if he said NO MASKS ALLOWED, that would be putting people in harms way.  oh, and whatever happened to follow the science.

For months, the governors of Texas and Florida have actively, aggressively undermined measures that would have improved medical outcomes in their states ... and they've done so for purely political reasons.

But sure, roQQet, I'm looking forward to you starting to follow the science any day now.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: statnik on November 13, 2021, 09:18:09 AM
What does the science say about masks?

That if you’re going to mandate them it’s pointless to have a lot of people use the cheap blue cloth masks, but our supply of N95 and K95 masks is probably not high enough for everyone to have one (or several as they’d need to be able to regularly use).
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 18, 2021, 08:24:31 AM
Facts, data, science. I know they don't sway a certain faction, but here is more of what we already knew:


Mask-wearing cuts Covid incidence by 53%, says global study
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/17/wearing-masks-single-most-effective-way-to-tackle-covid-study-finds

"Now a systematic review and meta analysis of non-pharmaceutical interventions has found for the first time that mask wearing, social distancing and handwashing are all effective measures at curbing cases – with mask wearing the most effective.

Results from more than 30 studies from around the world were analysed in detail, showing a statistically significant 53% reduction in the incidence of Covid with mask wearing and a 25% reduction with physical distancing.

Handwashing also indicated a substantial 53% reduction in Covid incidence, although this was not statistically significant after adjusting for the small number of handwashing studies included.

Detailed analysis was not possible for other measures, including quarantine and isolation, universal lockdowns, and closures of borders, schools, and workplaces, due to differences in study design, outcome measures and quality, the researchers said."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 18, 2021, 02:53:02 PM
Masking and distancing.  Huh.  Who knew?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 23, 2021, 02:59:17 PM
https://www.channel3000.com/dane-co-health-officials-change-course-extend-mask-order-into-new-year/?alert=3228171&alert_type=banner

neat.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 23, 2021, 03:04:06 PM
Smarter than most.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 23, 2021, 03:10:17 PM
I can't tell if my new eye doctor is hot or not because of the mask. I'm considering changing my views on public health.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 23, 2021, 03:16:12 PM
Pretend she is.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 23, 2021, 03:32:19 PM
Orr ax 'im, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 23, 2021, 03:39:34 PM
Orr ax 'im, hey?

Gottem, lol

"Are you hot? Cause I'm like 50/50 on if you're hot."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: BrewCity83 on November 23, 2021, 03:53:26 PM
https://www.channel3000.com/dane-co-health-officials-change-course-extend-mask-order-into-new-year/?alert=3228171&alert_type=banner

neat.

How does this affect the MU-UW game next week?  Are fans required to be masked at all times?  Proof of vaccination required?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 23, 2021, 03:59:36 PM
How does this affect the MU-UW game next week?  Are fans required to be masked at all times?  Proof of vaccination required?


Masks are required at the Kohl Center.  No vaccine requirement.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 23, 2021, 04:49:36 PM
Smarter than most.

Sooooooooo we're never going to move on then?  What is the criteria for ending this?

Obviously, you work in a unique situation and run into the worst of humanity on a daily basis.  But for a county that is 72.4% fully vaccinated, and 75.5% with at least one dose... and 98% of residents 65+ who are partially vaccinated.... Where does this end?  Pfizer Covid19 vaccine was approved for children 5-11 on 10/29.  Nearly a month ago.  Long enough for people to have ample time to get their children vaccinated if they so choose to.

There are 86 people who are hospitalized in Dane County.  In a county with a population of 546,695 (as of 2019).  15 people died in October.  5 so far in November.

Again, I ask.  What is the threshold to say masks aren't needed?  Pick a number.  Instead, Dane Co has moved the mandate back, month after month without giving any scientific reason for doing so.  Unless they plan to extend this mandate until the year 2100 they need to pick a threshold to give their constituents a finish line.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 23, 2021, 04:52:39 PM
Sooooooooo we're never going to move on then?  What is the criteria for ending this?

Obviously, you work in a unique situation and run into the worst of humanity on a daily basis.  But for a county that is 72.4% fully vaccinated, and 75.5% with at least one dose... and 98% of residents 65+ who are partially vaccinated.... Where does this end?  Pfizer Covid19 vaccine was approved for children 5-11 on 10/29.  Nearly a month ago.  Long enough for people to have ample time to get their children vaccinated if they so choose to.

There are 86 people who are hospitalized in Dane County.  In a county with a population of 546,695 (as of 2019).  15 people died in October.  5 so far in November.

Again, I ask.  What is the threshold to say masks aren't needed?  Pick a number.  Instead, Dane Co has moved the mandate back, month after month without giving any scientific reason for doing so.  Unless they plan to extend this mandate until the year 2100 they need to pick a threshold to give their constituents a finish line.


They did give them a finish line.  Then promptly moved it again. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 23, 2021, 05:16:58 PM
Local hospitals are again turning people away.    Highest numbers ever.  Highest daily number of cases statewide since a year ago. 80 deaths a day, statewide. 
 School districts shutting down, too many teacher and student illnesses to even go virtual.  Why on  earth would anyone think it is safe to  be unmasked and unvaccinated?

Dane County is choosing prudence.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 23, 2021, 06:27:41 PM
Local hospitals are again turning people away.    Highest numbers ever.  Highest daily number of cases statewide since a year ago. 80 deaths a day, statewide. 
 School districts shutting down, too many teacher and student illnesses to even go virtual.  Why on  earth would anyone think it is safe to  be unmasked and unvaccinated?

Dane County is choosing prudence.

Are you talking about Wisconsin or Michigan?  The dooms day scenario you’re describing doesn’t match the day to day reality here in Wisconsin at least. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 23, 2021, 07:48:35 PM
Local hospitals are again turning people away.    Highest numbers ever.  Highest daily number of cases statewide since a year ago. 80 deaths a day, statewide. 
 School districts shutting down, too many teacher and student illnesses to even go virtual.  Why on  earth would anyone think it is safe to  be unmasked and unvaccinated?

Dane County is choosing prudence.

I don't live there.  I'm sorry those people are too stupid to get vaccinated, but this is the path they've chosen.  Pick the number, tower.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 23, 2021, 08:49:47 PM
I don't live there.  I'm sorry those people are too stupid to get vaccinated, but this is the path they've chosen.  Pick the number, tower.

Pick a number or at least use real numbers.  Assuming he was talking hospitalizations, deaths, etc as it relates to Wisconsin we are nowhere near 80 deaths a day, record hospitalizations, or needing to turn patients away.  I’m sure there have been an instance or two of schools temporarily shutting down but nothing that I’ve seen or I’m the surrounding area that I live.  Tower has had some hot takes this week as it relates to what’s going on in a state that he doesn’t live in that’s for sure.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 23, 2021, 09:29:03 PM
Pick a number.
Vaccination %?
Number of new cases per day?
Number of deaths per day?
Number of new cases among children?
Between 1-10?
Number of things shown to slow spread?  OK, that number is three.

Minnesota and Michigan are now where Florida was during late summer and early fall.   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 23, 2021, 09:32:13 PM
Pick a number.
Vaccination %?
Number of new cases per day?
Number of deaths per day?
Number of new cases among children?
Between 1-10?
Number of things shown to slow spread?  OK, that number is three.

Minnesota and Michigan are now where Florida was during late summer and early fall.

You still aren’t picking a number. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 24, 2021, 07:01:08 AM
Pick a number.
Vaccination %?
Number of new cases per day?
Number of deaths per day?
Number of new cases among children?
Between 1-10?
Number of things shown to slow spread?  OK, that number is three.

Minnesota and Michigan are now where Florida was during late summer and early fall.   


And Florida, with zero mask mandates and a rather average vaccination rate considering the age of its population, has seen their case counts drop significantly since then.

Eventually burdening the entire population because a segment won't take the steps necessary to keep themselves healthy isn't a tenable position.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 24, 2021, 07:22:30 AM
I disagree with the premise that a mask is a burden.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 24, 2021, 07:31:28 AM
I disagree with the premise that a mask is a burden.

Many people don’t.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 24, 2021, 07:36:52 AM
Clearly.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on November 24, 2021, 08:14:30 AM
Many people don’t.

Many of those same think vaccines are a burden and ivermectin is a wonder drug…..
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on November 24, 2021, 08:30:32 AM
Many of those same think vaccines are a burden and ivermectin is a wonder drug…..

See I don't think thats fair and thats not at all what FBM is talking about.  We're all in agreement that people that haven't gotten the vaccine yet are some form of stubborn/stupid/willfully ignorant.  But its unfair to continue to assume that those who have taken all the steps, distanced, gotten vaccines and boosters, etc... are in the same bucket as anti-vaxxers cause they don't see mask wearing in perpetuity as NBD. 

Its not unreasonable to ask when does it stop?  First it was vaccines, then vaccines for kids, so now what?  Its not going to be eradicated and we're not going to get to 95%+ vaccination, so what are we waiting for?  Applauding "prudence" or abundance of caution without a plan seems excessive at this point.  Just some people have no issue with a mask for whatever reason, I'm gonna take issue with being deemed some form of selfish/impatient/whatever because I don't want to wear one anymore after 3 shots when everyone and anyone who wants one can get one.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 24, 2021, 08:44:32 AM
I disagree with the premise that a mask is a burden.

You're welcome to wear an N95 for the rest of your life then.

See I don't think thats fair and thats not at all what FBM is talking about.  We're all in agreement that people that haven't gotten the vaccine yet are some form of stubborn/stupid/willfully ignorant.  But its unfair to continue to assume that those who have taken all the steps, distanced, gotten vaccines and boosters, etc... are in the same bucket as anti-vaxxers cause they don't see mask wearing in perpetuity as NBD. 

Its not unreasonable to ask when does it stop?  First it was vaccines, then vaccines for kids, so now what?  Its not going to be eradicated and we're not going to get to 95%+ vaccination, so what are we waiting for?  Applauding "prudence" or abundance of caution without a plan seems excessive at this point.  Just some people have no issue with a mask for whatever reason, I'm gonna take issue with being deemed some form of selfish/impatient/whatever because I don't want to wear one anymore after 3 shots when everyone and anyone who wants one can get one.

Yup.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUBurrow on November 24, 2021, 09:27:56 AM
See I don't think thats fair and thats not at all what FBM is talking about.  We're all in agreement that people that haven't gotten the vaccine yet are some form of stubborn/stupid/willfully ignorant.  But its unfair to continue to assume that those who have taken all the steps, distanced, gotten vaccines and boosters, etc... are in the same bucket as anti-vaxxers cause they don't see mask wearing in perpetuity as NBD. 

Its not unreasonable to ask when does it stop?  First it was vaccines, then vaccines for kids, so now what?  Its not going to be eradicated and we're not going to get to 95%+ vaccination, so what are we waiting for?  Applauding "prudence" or abundance of caution without a plan seems excessive at this point.  Just some people have no issue with a mask for whatever reason, I'm gonna take issue with being deemed some form of selfish/impatient/whatever because I don't want to wear one anymore after 3 shots when everyone and anyone who wants one can get one.

+2

And as Fluff mentions with the Florida comp, and as was outined in that NYT article a couple weeks back, we are seeing policies like mask mandates having less and less of a correlative impact with surges.  That isn't anti science - masks definitely help prevent spread.  But with the vaccines as established as they are, from a public health standpoint, the only thing mask mandates do is protect a rounding error percentile of the unvaccinated from dying (those people aren't being safe in the other 99% of their lives when they aren't in a place actively mandating masks) and vaccinated folks from potentially having to call into work for a few days.  I was all aboard mandates before kids could get vaxxed, because kids have been wearing the brunt of adult stupidity this whole time - but at this point this thing is what it is.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 24, 2021, 09:34:01 AM
You're welcome to wear an N95 for the rest of your life then.



Honestly, as often as I come into contact with people with active COVID (20 minutes ago), that would be the considerate thing to do.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MUBurrow on November 24, 2021, 09:44:29 AM
Honestly, as often as I come into contact with people with active COVID (20 minutes ago), that would be the considerate thing to do.

Tower, I feel for you man, I really do.  You and folks in your field continue to be face to face with the most anti-social among us, and are at increased risk of catching covid in your professional life every day. First responders, health care professionals, and relevant to this board, dentists, are going to be dealing with covid aftershocks longer and more directly than the rest of us. Professionally, you folks are going to be in masks for a long, long time. A lot of best practices are never going to be the same.  I remember early in the pandemic a lot of hospital systems were on zoom calls with southeast asian health care facilities to learn how to route hospital traffic to try to prevent spread. Those are lessons we can't afford for them to unlearn.

But the people who are trying to give you covid every day are going to keep trying to give you covid every day.  Its what they do and who they are.  Enforcing mask mandates at the coffee shop has less and less of an impact on that. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on November 24, 2021, 10:42:08 AM
See I don't think thats fair and thats not at all what FBM is talking about.  We're all in agreement that people that haven't gotten the vaccine yet are some form of stubborn/stupid/willfully ignorant.  But its unfair to continue to assume that those who have taken all the steps, distanced, gotten vaccines and boosters, etc... are in the same bucket as anti-vaxxers cause they don't see mask wearing in perpetuity as NBD. 

Its not unreasonable to ask when does it stop?  First it was vaccines, then vaccines for kids, so now what?  Its not going to be eradicated and we're not going to get to 95%+ vaccination, so what are we waiting for?  Applauding "prudence" or abundance of caution without a plan seems excessive at this point.  Just some people have no issue with a mask for whatever reason, I'm gonna take issue with being deemed some form of selfish/impatient/whatever because I don't want to wear one anymore after 3 shots when everyone and anyone who wants one can get one.

But that is not what he said. He said people believe masks are a burden. Not that masks are unnecessary for some people. Different discussion. Calling masks a burden is hyperbole. Just like calling vaccines dangerous or ivermectin a cure for Covid.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 24, 2021, 11:48:19 AM
But that is not what he said. He said people believe masks are a burden. Not that masks are unnecessary for some people. Different discussion. Calling masks a burden is hyperbole. Just like calling vaccines dangerous or ivermectin a cure for Covid.


Fine.  They are a nuisance.  And as Wags says, at what point do we stop having everyone endure this nuisance for the sake of a few people who won't get vaccinated? 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 24, 2021, 12:02:33 PM
But that is not what he said. He said people believe masks are a burden. Not that masks are unnecessary for some people. Different discussion. Calling masks a burden is hyperbole. Just like calling vaccines dangerous or ivermectin a cure for Covid.

I see we're playing the semantics game now.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 24, 2021, 12:06:32 PM

Fine.  They are a nuisance.  And as Wags says, at what point do we stop having everyone endure this nuisance for the sake of a few people who won't get vaccinated?
When it is somewhere in the same time zone as over.   Currently, it is not
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 24, 2021, 12:14:05 PM
When it is somewhere in the same time zone as over.   Currently, it is not

People have a safe and effective tool to end this, but refuse to use it, so I disagree. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on November 24, 2021, 12:33:01 PM
I see we're playing the semantics game now.
No, when people call wearing a mask a burden, they are dismissed by most people. They are grouped with those comparing it to nazi death camps. Can’t have a serious discussion with them.
I want this pandemic over. Those calling wearing a mask a “burden” don’t want to do anything to help end it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 24, 2021, 12:36:59 PM
No, when people call wearing a mask a burden, they are dismissed by most people. They are grouped with those comparing it to nazi death camps. Can’t have a serious discussion with them.
I want this pandemic over. Those calling wearing a mask a “burden” don’t want to do anything to help end it.

Seriously?  Go over my posting history in this topic and if you can continue claim I "don't want to do anything to help end it," then you're an idiot. 

Honestly, making a conclusion like that cause I used one word.  ::)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 24, 2021, 12:44:09 PM
People have a safe and effective tool to end this, but refuse to use it, so I disagree. 

Disagree that we're there (but we're getting close). My friends have kids that are sub-5 with other issues that are unable to get vaccinated because of their age.

Thankfully we live in Chicago where we've been able to keep the spread lower than rural areas because the mask mandates are enforced. Just like Madison. Despite the high population density, both cities have low infection rate per 100k residents.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 24, 2021, 01:03:59 PM
People have a safe and effective tool to end this, but refuse to use it, so I disagree.
I know.   As my coworker is busy changing his Thanksgiving plans since his pre-school aged niece brought it home and infected his sister and brother in law.   

You can believe anything you want.   This ongoing pandemic has proven that.  What do the current numbers say?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 24, 2021, 01:07:32 PM
Disagree that we're there (but we're getting close). My friends have kids that are sub-5 with other issues that are unable to get vaccinated because of their age.

Thankfully we live in Chicago where we've been able to keep the spread lower than rural areas because the mask mandates are enforced. Just like Madison. Despite the high population density, both cities have low infection rate per 100k residents.

What if told you the reported number of children under 11 that have died from covid19 in the US is 276 as of October since the start of the pandemic.  I can't find information about children under 5.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/data-shows-more-children-are-getting-sick-dying-covid-n1281616

I'm not attempting to minimize the loss felt by those 276 families, but regardless of their vaccination rate, we will still lose people to this virus every single year for the rest of the existence of humanity (short of an absolute cure that is available worldwide).  More people die from car accidents to deer.  Around 50 children die every year from chickenpox.  There is a vaccine for that, but what percent of children have had it?  Surely you can see where I'm going with this.  Covid19 poses a near zero fatal risk to children under 11 who contract it.  If society is deciding to wait until kids under 5 can get vaccinated, that's fine, but it is a decision that is based on misplaced fear instead of facts.

What are we doing here?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 24, 2021, 01:14:18 PM
I know.   As my coworker is busy changing his Thanksgiving plans since his pre-school aged niece brought it home and infected his sister and brother in law.   

You can believe anything you want.   This ongoing pandemic has proven that.  What do the current numbers say?


Hmmm your coworker's preschool aged niece is probably over the age of 5 and therefore has had ample opportunity to be vaccinated under 5 and at a extremely low risk of hospitalization and even less for death.  Just like the adults have had plenty of time to become vaccinated as well.  So they're as protected as they can be.

Likely no one will be hospitalized, and even less likely someone will die.

What exactly do you expect to happen?  We aren't ever going to zero.

edit:  apparently I think preschoolers are older than they are.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on November 24, 2021, 01:17:37 PM


Hmmm your coworker's preschool aged niece is probably over the age of 5 and therefore has had ample opportunity to be vaccinated.  Just like the adults have had plenty of time to become vaccinated as well.  So they're as protected as they can be.




Preschool means ages 3-4.  Maybe barely 5 if they have an early birthday.  And unless they immediately jumped on it, a barely-5-year-old with next to no chance of being fully vaccinated.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: larrym on November 24, 2021, 01:31:32 PM
My eight and nine-year-old kids got their first shot the first week that they could.  That was two weeks ago Saturday. Because their clinic is putting in an extra week due to Thanksgiving, they won’t be two weeks out from the second shot until Christmas Day.  We’re getting there, but it takes a while from the time the vaccine is approved until that age group can be fully vaccinated.



Hmmm your coworker's preschool aged niece is probably over the age of 5 and therefore has had ample opportunity to be vaccinated under 5 and at a extremely low risk of hospitalization and even less for death.  Just like the adults have had plenty of time to become vaccinated as well.  So they're as protected as they can be.

Likely no one will be hospitalized, and even less likely someone will die.

What exactly do you expect to happen?  We aren't ever going to zero.

edit:  apparently I think preschoolers are older than they are.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 24, 2021, 01:35:35 PM
Disagree that we're there (but we're getting close). My friends have kids that are sub-5 with other issues that are unable to get vaccinated because of their age.

Thankfully we live in Chicago where we've been able to keep the spread lower than rural areas because the mask mandates are enforced. Just like Madison. Despite the high population density, both cities have low infection rate per 100k residents.

I get that. But I question if mask mandates are going to significantly change numbers at this point.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 24, 2021, 01:37:44 PM
I know.   As my coworker is busy changing his Thanksgiving plans since his pre-school aged niece brought it home and infected his sister and brother in law.   

You can believe anything you want.   This ongoing pandemic has proven that.  What do the current numbers say?

Your friend would have changed plans in the past had the pre schooler brought home the flu or a cold. We aren’t going to ever get to Zero Covid so bringing up anecdotal stories isn’t very useful.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on November 24, 2021, 02:20:44 PM
Mask wearing cuts the number of new Covid-19 infections by 53%, according to a new peer reviewed study in the British Medical Journal, which found the controversial and highly politicized precaution to be the single most effective tool against the coronavirus.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/11/18/mask-wearing-cuts-new-covid-19-cases-by-53-its-the-best-public-health-measure-against-the-virus-study-finds/?sh=24f3d26912ab&utm_term=OZY&utm_campaign=daily-dose&utm_content=Wednesday_11.24.21&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email

I agree that there does need to be an end eventually. I'm sure many (most?) states have specific benchmarks identified as to when there need not be mask mandates. NC requires a positivity rate of 5% or less, and that seems reasonable to me. I think it would be helpful to have some kind of guideline everywhere so governors aren't just saying, "Yay" or "nay." And should any governor really be making executive orders barring companies from establishing their own mandates?

I just got home from Publix. I wish I didn't have to wear a mask. But that 25 minutes in the store with a mask on wasn't really a "burden."
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 24, 2021, 02:24:47 PM
My eight and nine-year-old kids got their first shot the first week that they could.  That was two weeks ago Saturday. Because their clinic is putting in an extra week due to Thanksgiving, they won’t be two weeks out from the second shot until Christmas Day.  We’re getting there, but it takes a while from the time the vaccine is approved until that age group can be fully vaccinated.

The current Dane County mask mandate (which is what I was originally referring to) was set to expire 11/27. 

Also, if they would say 1/3/22 is the line in the sand where we can drop the mandate and stick to it, I'd have no problem.

I have a problem with Dane Co arbitrarily pushing the expiration date back without a clear goal.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on November 24, 2021, 02:34:01 PM
Seriously?  Go over my posting history in this topic and if you can continue claim I "don't want to do anything to help end it," then you're an idiot. 

Honestly, making a conclusion like that cause I used one word.  ::)

You said many people. I wasn’t referring specifically to you, but obviously you were.
Interesting.
Ironic when you are calling me an idiot.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 24, 2021, 02:44:08 PM
You said many people. I wasn’t referring specifically to you, but obviously you were.
Interesting.
Ironic when you are calling me an idiot.

You clearly have trouble with the English language pal. Go back and figure it out.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: larrym on November 24, 2021, 02:51:20 PM
I’m in Dane County.  I think you are too.  When they brought back the mask order over the summer I believe they said they were following the CDC guidelines of masking when transmission in the area was high.  The latest numbers here are more than double of what the threshold for high transmission is.  My guess is the mask order will expire before we get back under the high threshold, but hopefully will be trending that way. 

It sounds like they were saying yesterday that they were extending this just long enough to get to the other side of the holidays and for the kids 5 to 11 to get vaccinated. I don’t expect any more extensions.


The current Dane County mask mandate (which is what I was originally referring to) was set to expire 11/27. 

Also, if they would say 1/3/22 is the line in the sand where we can drop the mandate and stick to it, I'd have no problem.

I have a problem with Dane Co arbitrarily pushing the expiration date back without a clear goal.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 24, 2021, 02:59:29 PM
I’m in Dane County.  I think you are too.  When they brought back the mask order over the summer I believe they said they were following the CDC guidelines of masking when transmission in the area was high.  The latest numbers here are more than double of what the threshold for high transmission is.  My guess is the mask order will expire before we get back under the high threshold, but hopefully will be trending that way. 

It sounds like they were saying yesterday that they were extending this just long enough to get to the other side of the holidays and for the kids 5 to 11 to get vaccinated. I don’t expect any more extensions.

Yes, I am.  If that was going to be the case all along, then just say that.  What they're doing is absolutely foolish and it will burn people out even faster. 

Furthermore, the use of transmission is also foolish, considering vaccination rates are very high in Dane Co. 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that they're not being logical about this, nor are they following the science.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on November 24, 2021, 04:27:07 PM
You clearly have trouble with the English language pal. Go back and figure it out.

Buddy, this was your quote:

Many people don’t.

Many does not equal you. I’m not the one that has language issues sparky.



Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 24, 2021, 04:29:03 PM
Buddy, this was your quote:

Many does not equal you. I’m not the one that has language issues sparky.

Nope. Read what you wrote and what I responded to.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on November 24, 2021, 05:09:28 PM
People have a safe and effective tool to end this, but refuse to use it, so I disagree.

Define "end this". What about in high risk environments (e.g. schools), where parents send, or kids go to class despite exhibiting cold/flu symptoms often.

Vaccines work and will help mitigate death, but what about missing 2-weeks of work (which means a 2nd illness of any type results in going unpaid), and possibly dealing with long-term lung issues, mental health issues, or a number of other long-COVID symptoms that still can occur in the vaccinated.

I know teachers that were hospitalized for weeks, despite being vaccinated, because they worked in districts that do not mandate masking.

Schools have classrooms with too high of densities, and too poor of ventilation to mitigate spread.

Right now, spread is too high in most areas to responsibly remove mask mandates in these settings.

Unless, they want to allow Workman's comp, and the possibility of suing employers for damages due to getting COVID on the job, it isn't fair to high-risk workers to have to be exposed to unmasked individuals. If people are ok with employer liability lawsuits, then fine remove mask mandates.

But if you open up employers/venues to liability, guess what...they will institute mask mandates, because it is less burdensome.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 24, 2021, 05:24:27 PM
The current Dane County mask mandate (which is what I was originally referring to) was set to expire 11/27. 

Also, if they would say 1/3/22 is the line in the sand where we can drop the mandate and stick to it, I'd have no problem.

I have a problem with Dane Co arbitrarily pushing the expiration date back without a clear goal.

These are your kinda politicians, hey? 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 24, 2021, 05:33:42 PM
These are your kinda politicians, hey?

I don't vote for Madison politicians.  8-)

Also, it's far better than the alternative in general.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 24, 2021, 06:43:56 PM
Define "end this". What about in high risk environments (e.g. schools), where parents send, or kids go to class despite exhibiting cold/flu symptoms often.

Vaccines work and will help mitigate death, but what about missing 2-weeks of work (which means a 2nd illness of any type results in going unpaid), and possibly dealing with long-term lung issues, mental health issues, or a number of other long-COVID symptoms that still can occur in the vaccinated.

I know teachers that were hospitalized for weeks, despite being vaccinated, because they worked in districts that do not mandate masking.

Schools have classrooms with too high of densities, and too poor of ventilation to mitigate spread.

Right now, spread is too high in most areas to responsibly remove mask mandates in these settings.

Unless, they want to allow Workman's comp, and the possibility of suing employers for damages due to getting COVID on the job, it isn't fair to high-risk workers to have to be exposed to unmasked individuals. If people are ok with employer liability lawsuits, then fine remove mask mandates.

But if you open up employers/venues to liability, guess what...they will institute mask mandates, because it is less burdensome.

What about manslaughter charges though if mandates are removed or not put back in place?  That seems reasonable, right forgetful!! 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 24, 2021, 06:51:35 PM
Define "end this". What about in high risk environments (e.g. schools), where parents send, or kids go to class despite exhibiting cold/flu symptoms often.

Vaccines work and will help mitigate death, but what about missing 2-weeks of work (which means a 2nd illness of any type results in going unpaid), and possibly dealing with long-term lung issues, mental health issues, or a number of other long-COVID symptoms that still can occur in the vaccinated.

I know teachers that were hospitalized for weeks, despite being vaccinated, because they worked in districts that do not mandate masking.

Schools have classrooms with too high of densities, and too poor of ventilation to mitigate spread.

Right now, spread is too high in most areas to responsibly remove mask mandates in these settings.

Unless, they want to allow Workman's comp, and the possibility of suing employers for damages due to getting COVID on the job, it isn't fair to high-risk workers to have to be exposed to unmasked individuals. If people are ok with employer liability lawsuits, then fine remove mask mandates.

But if you open up employers/venues to liability, guess what...they will institute mask mandates, because it is less burdensome.

So your suggestion is what exactly?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 24, 2021, 07:49:18 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/anish_koka/status/1463562466961633284

🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 24, 2021, 09:20:08 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/anish_koka/status/1463562466961633284

🤷‍♂️

You can't find reliable sources to save your life.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on November 24, 2021, 09:29:46 PM
So your suggestion is what exactly?

1. Vaccine mandates in schools.

2. Employer liability/Workman's comp for long lasting COVID issues if contracted at work, with low proof threshold for work acquired illnesses.

3. Then let employer's decide what they want to do regarding masks at their workplace/school/store.

For schools, if you ensure #1 is done, then you can escape legal culpability in regards to item #3 as you did your due diligence to protect your employees.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 25, 2021, 06:38:41 AM
BTW, forgetful I am not for lifting mask mandates everywhere.  Schools, health care, certain workplaces, etc. are all fine.  I have issues with the continuous nature of the health department mandates at places like restaurants, events, etc. where IMO it should be left to the people who run those venues.  With no clear criteria for when it should end.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: forgetful on November 25, 2021, 11:42:43 AM
BTW, forgetful I am not for lifting mask mandates everywhere.  Schools, health care, certain workplaces, etc. are all fine.  I have issues with the continuous nature of the health department mandates at places like restaurants, events, etc. where IMO it should be left to the people who run those venues.  With no clear criteria for when it should end.

I think we are actually largely in agreement. I've personally been ok with these private venues making their own choices, and patrons being able to assume their own risk as they choose.

The only caveat I would have is potential exploitation of the workers, like we saw at meat processing plants early in the pandemic. There should be some legal culpability for putting workers in danger, when there are simple and obvious controls that could be executed.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: dgies9156 on November 25, 2021, 11:26:54 PM
OK gang, I'll take this the other way. I'm in favor of lifting mask mandates and the sooner the better.

If you want to wear a mask, go right ahead. I have no problem with it. But the challenge is, when do we stop changing our lives for Covid? I'm of the view that Covid in various forms and mutations is always going to be with us. The only defense we have is vaccination. In my case, I've had two shots of Modera plus the booster. Yes, vaccinated people get Covid, but if they do they are ill for a few days and then are fine.

If you aren't vaccinated, please be vaccinated. There's no excuse not to be. It's free, available everywhere and chances are, if you can't come to a clinic, the clinic will come to you!

All that said, I'd like to see the following done:

1) Set a "vaccinate by" sometime in the first quarter of 2022.

2) After that, take all the mask mandates off. Take any other Covid related restrictions off.

3) Then, either permit health insurers to either not cover Covid for those who are not vaccinated or jack premiums sky high and;

4) Require proof of a Covid vaccination to board an airplane, train, bus, go to certain public places etc.

It's just time to get back to normal -- to go to the office, arenas, entertainment etc. We've done everything we can do for Covid and now it's time to either jump in and be vaccinated or face the consequences.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 26, 2021, 09:34:54 AM
There is no return to the former definition of 'normal' any time soon.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 26, 2021, 09:57:06 AM
OK gang, I'll take this the other way. I'm in favor of lifting mask mandates and the sooner the better.

If you want to wear a mask, go right ahead. I have no problem with it. But the challenge is, when do we stop changing our lives for Covid? I'm of the view that Covid in various forms and mutations is always going to be with us. The only defense we have is vaccination. In my case, I've had two shots of Modera plus the booster. Yes, vaccinated people get Covid, but if they do they are ill for a few days and then are fine.

If you aren't vaccinated, please be vaccinated. There's no excuse not to be. It's free, available everywhere and chances are, if you can't come to a clinic, the clinic will come to you!

All that said, I'd like to see the following done:

1) Set a "vaccinate by" sometime in the first quarter of 2022.

2) After that, take all the mask mandates off. Take any other Covid related restrictions off.

3) Then, either permit health insurers to either not cover Covid for those who are not vaccinated or jack premiums sky high and;

4) Require proof of a Covid vaccination to board an airplane, train, bus, go to certain public places etc.

It's just time to get back to normal -- to go to the office, arenas, entertainment etc. We've done everything we can do for Covid and now it's time to either jump in and be vaccinated or face the consequences.




Fear and control. Never going to happen because FD Joe or whomever is making decisions in this country, will not let it happen. Also, too much money at stake. Again, fear and control in its purest form, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pacearrow02 on November 26, 2021, 10:23:25 AM
There is no return to the former definition of 'normal' any time soon.

Aside from having to wear a mask while I’m at work I can’t think of a single thing that hasn’t returned to normal from a day to day perspective for myself and my family.

Kids school is back to doing Christmas concerts, grandparents day, etc type activities with no mask requirements.  County I live in does not have a mask mandate in place so aside from the couple vacations a year where the kids will have to wear a mask I can’t think of a single thing that hasn’t returned to normal for us at least.

So not returning to normal anytime soon must largely depend on where you live or what you personal risk tolerance is I suppose.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 26, 2021, 10:32:23 AM



Fear and control. Never going to happen because FD Joe or whomever is making decisions in this country, will not let it happen. Also, too much money at stake. Again, fear and control in its purest form, hey?
Paranoia, conspiracy theories. Totally real and not mental illness, no sir!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 26, 2021, 10:33:49 AM
OK gang, I'll take this the other way. I'm in favor of lifting mask mandates and the sooner the better.

If you want to wear a mask, go right ahead. I have no problem with it. But the challenge is, when do we stop changing our lives for Covid? I'm of the view that Covid in various forms and mutations is always going to be with us. The only defense we have is vaccination. In my case, I've had two shots of Modera plus the booster. Yes, vaccinated people get Covid, but if they do they are ill for a few days and then are fine.

If you aren't vaccinated, please be vaccinated. There's no excuse not to be. It's free, available everywhere and chances are, if you can't come to a clinic, the clinic will come to you!

All that said, I'd like to see the following done:

1) Set a "vaccinate by" sometime in the first quarter of 2022.

2) After that, take all the mask mandates off. Take any other Covid related restrictions off.

3) Then, either permit health insurers to either not cover Covid for those who are not vaccinated or jack premiums sky high and;

4) Require proof of a Covid vaccination to board an airplane, train, bus, go to certain public places etc.

It's just time to get back to normal -- to go to the office, arenas, entertainment etc. We've done everything we can do for Covid and now it's time to either jump in and be vaccinated or face the consequences.

All very reasonable.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 26, 2021, 10:44:27 AM



Fear and control. Never going to happen because FD Joe or whomever is making decisions in this country, will not let it happen. Also, too much money at stake. Again, fear and control in its purest form, hey?

😂
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on November 26, 2021, 12:44:42 PM
BTW, forgetful I am not for lifting mask mandates everywhere.  Schools, health care, certain workplaces, etc. are all fine.  I have issues with the continuous nature of the health department mandates at places like restaurants, events, etc. where IMO it should be left to the people who run those venues.  With no clear criteria for when it should end.
I agree with this position. Unfortunately our big government, anti capitalism governor disagrees.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 26, 2021, 02:43:21 PM
I agree with this position. Unfortunately our big government, anti capitalism governor disagrees.

LOL
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on November 26, 2021, 04:00:32 PM
LOL

What else would you call government imposing rules on private businesses?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 26, 2021, 04:05:34 PM
What else would you call government imposing rules on private businesses?
Is this a serious question?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on November 26, 2021, 04:09:18 PM
pbi is mocking Desantis.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 26, 2021, 04:18:54 PM
What else would you call government imposing rules on private businesses?

It's called regulation, dumbass.

You want to be a true libertarian?  Haiti awaits.

And if you want to talk about 'big government, anti-capitalism' former governor Walker gave billions of dollars to Foxxconn.  Your money, and mine.

It's a tired trope, and utter bullsh1t, that is what I LOLed.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on November 26, 2021, 04:34:07 PM
It's called regulation, dumbass.

You want to be a true libertarian?  Haiti awaits.

And if you want to talk about 'big government, anti-capitalism' former governor Walker gave billions of dollars to Foxxconn.  Your money, and mine.

It's a tired trope, and utter bullsh1t, that is what I LOLed.

Regulation on businesses used to be something conservatives were against, but now it is something they cheer.  Calling out their hypocrisy isn’t tired trope unless you are the one being called out.
Sorry if that offends you. Conservatives are awful sensitive these days.
And no, wasn’t my money that went to a company that actually had their motives in their name. I told people it was a scam. But conservatives cheered it and praised Walker.
I am firmly against corporate welfare. Yah capitalism!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on November 26, 2021, 05:52:48 PM
The funny thing about this exchange is that Hards and pbi actually agree.

(I think.)
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Pakuni on December 03, 2021, 11:23:47 AM
Missouri tried to bury a state health department analysis that showed mask mandates are effective at curbing community spread and reducing deaths.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/missouri-withheld-data-showing-effectiveness-132036581.html
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 06, 2021, 11:57:31 AM
NYC with the private business vaccine mandate



Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 06, 2021, 11:05:49 PM
NYC with the private business vaccine mandate

Idiot lame duck mayor grandstanding - won’t ever be actually enforced.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 07, 2021, 07:25:22 AM
Idiot lame duck mayor grandstanding - won’t ever be actually enforced.

When I was in NYC last month, the restaurant rule was definitely being enforced and most private businesses I dealt with had their own mandates. Very little masking. It was great.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 07, 2021, 07:54:49 AM
When I was in NYC last month, the restaurant rule was definitely being enforced and most private businesses I dealt with had their own mandates. Very little masking. It was great.

Fluff - ditto.  I was in NYC Thanksgiving weekend and the restaurant I went into, the bartender demanded we show vax card and ID to prove it matched the card.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 07, 2021, 08:25:04 AM
Fluff - ditto.  I was in NYC Thanksgiving weekend and the restaurant I went into, the bartender demanded we show vax card and ID to prove it matched the card.


And you know what was most awesome about it?  Not a single complaint.  People are being responsible, loving their neighbor as themselves, and pretty much living as normal.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on December 07, 2021, 08:32:28 AM

And you know what was most awesome about it?  Not a single complaint.  People are being responsible, loving their neighbor as themselves, and pretty much living as normal.

I can't believe you'd try to bring religion into this
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 07, 2021, 08:48:19 AM
I can't believe you'd try to bring religion into this


Yeah I know.  Actually applying the Christian values I learned as a child in a real life situation.  Shame on me.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 07, 2021, 08:57:54 AM

And you know what was most awesome about it?  Not a single complaint.  People are being responsible, loving their neighbor as themselves, and pretty much living as normal.

100% yes.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jficke13 on December 07, 2021, 09:01:34 AM
NYC with the private business vaccine mandate

Good. Laboratory of democracy and all. Would love to see it spread.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 07, 2021, 10:45:50 AM
Idiot lame duck mayor grandstanding - won’t ever be actually enforced.

Alternatively, you should go to NYC and see it for yourself.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 07, 2021, 12:18:57 PM
Alternatively, you should go to NYC and see it for yourself.

See what for myself? How things are now in NYC is beside the point and has nothing to do with the new mandates. Nobody will be able to see for themselves how they work out because they’ll never be adopted.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 07, 2021, 01:59:49 PM
See what for myself? How things are now in NYC is beside the point and has nothing to do with the new mandates. Nobody will be able to see for themselves how they work out because they’ll never be adopted.


Why wouldn't they be adopted? They're going into effect before the new mayor takes office.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 07, 2021, 04:46:26 PM
Why wouldn't they be adopted? They're going into effect before the new mayor takes office.

I would be very surprised if there’s not a delay due to a court filing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on December 07, 2021, 06:19:59 PM
In NOLA last weekend. No masks required, but you do need to show your vax card or negative test result to go into a bar or restaurant. Even though we had both, it's a total pain.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: reinko on December 07, 2021, 06:54:41 PM
In NOLA last weekend. No masks required, but you do need to show your vax card or negative test result to go into a bar or restaurant. Even though we had both, it's a total pain.

🙄
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on December 07, 2021, 07:34:20 PM
In NOLA last weekend. No masks required, but you do need to show your vax card or negative test result to go into a bar or restaurant. Even though we had both, it's a total pain.
Stay home then.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 07, 2021, 07:37:40 PM
In NOLA last weekend. No masks required, but you do need to show your vax card or negative test result to go into a bar or restaurant. Even though we had both, it's a total pain.

Did they accept one from a phone pic?  Cause I used that in NYC and it was like a five second thing.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on December 07, 2021, 08:12:13 PM
Did they accept one from a phone pic?  Cause I used that in NYC and it was like a five second thing.

Yep, but Glow had gotten a new phone and his albums did not switch over. We found it, but it took a while. We weren't aware of the rules before we got there.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 07, 2021, 08:18:27 PM
Yep, but Glow had gotten a new phone and his albums did not switch over. We found it, but it took a while. We weren't aware of the rules before we got there.

So the pain in the ass was of your own doing then.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on December 07, 2021, 08:20:24 PM
In NOLA last weekend. No masks required, but you do need to show your vax card or negative test result to go into a bar or restaurant. Even though we had both, it's a total pain.

Did they force you to show an age document to get into the bar? Now that's some real authoritarian garbage
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on December 07, 2021, 08:33:46 PM
So the pain in the ass was of your own doing then.

Rule #8 of hospitality: Never inconvenience a retired mom.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on December 07, 2021, 08:43:29 PM
Was it a pain because of how it was done?  Or just cause you had to do it?

We had vax QR codes scanned in Europe entering any restaurant.  It was efficient and smooth. 

However, we showed physical vax cards at a train station.  The attendant was clearly not versed in it and didn't know where to look and it was clumsy and sometimes took minutes per person. 
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on December 07, 2021, 10:56:28 PM
Did they force you to show an age document to get into the bar? Now that's some real authoritarian garbage

Yep. And I hear they actually make parents put toddlers in car seats designed for toddlers ... and parents even have to buckle them in. So intrusive! Freedom now!!!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: reinko on December 08, 2021, 02:02:06 AM
Yep, but Glow had gotten a new phone and his albums did not switch over. We found it, but it took a while. We weren't aware of the rules before we got there.

😂, imagine complaining about waiting to get into restaurant in an effort to help keep yourself, staff, and other patrons safe in the middle of deadly pandemic because you don’t how to use iCloud, AND not bothering to educate yourself on local rules and ordinances.

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on December 08, 2021, 08:06:36 AM
😂, imagine complaining about waiting to get into restaurant in an effort to help keep yourself, staff, and other patrons safe in the middle of deadly pandemic because you don’t how to use iCloud, AND not bothering to educate yourself on local rules and ordinances.



Imagine the world not revolving around themselves.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 08, 2021, 12:39:23 PM
I had a friend who didn’t bring her vax card to the Goodman, despite my forwarding each and every email they sent about their protocols🤷‍♀️
Took us close to half an hour ( we were an hour early as we usually get a drink) to be able to verify her vax status so she could get in, but we of course were doing that off to the side.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: lawdog77 on December 09, 2021, 11:33:22 AM
In NOLA last weekend. No masks required, but you do need to show your vax card or negative test result to go into a bar or restaurant. Even though we had both, it's a total pain.
Did you need to have proof of a booster shot as well, or was it just the first 2 shots (or 1 for  J &J). On a side note, listening to NPR today and they talked about people are not "fully vaccinated", so stop using that term.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: warriorchick on December 09, 2021, 01:06:22 PM
Did you need to have proof of a booster shot as well, or was it just the first 2 shots (or 1 for  J &J). On a side note, listening to NPR today and they talked about people are not "fully vaccinated", so stop using that term.

The photo I had of my Vax card was before my booster was added to it, and they let me in, so I assume it's not required.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 09, 2021, 05:04:55 PM
Not yet. Will be at some point, some other countries have already gotten to that point.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on December 09, 2021, 05:30:27 PM
Not yet. Will be at some point, some other countries have already gotten to that point.

Such as?  I know nowhere other than Israel.  Maybe one of the Balkan nations if I recall.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 09, 2021, 05:57:30 PM
France, for one, is changing their Covid pass requirements. As of December 15, over 65’s need the booster, and over 18’s need it as of January 15.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on December 09, 2021, 07:24:38 PM
France, for one, is changing their Covid pass requirements. As of December 15, over 65’s need the booster, and over 18’s need it as of January 15.

So nowhere else notable has “gotten to that point” just that a fairly strict country with some outdoor masking mandates will require it in over a month. Got it.

I don’t foresee compulsory boosters in the US in the very near future, FWIW. At least for gen pop
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 09, 2021, 07:38:33 PM
That’s one that I remembered offhandedly.
I don’t think they’re alone.
Austria is putting a 270 day limit on the two-dose vaccines, after that a booster is required to be fully vaccinated. The J&J single dose is only valid until January .
I believe I have read of other countries starting to at least look at adopting similar regulations, but I’ not keeping a running list.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 09, 2021, 07:40:43 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/apple/apple-store-texas-closes-covid-outbreak-rcna8000

Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 09, 2021, 08:30:19 PM
I don’t foresee compulsory boosters in the US in the very near future, FWIW. At least for gen pop

Depending on your definition of "very near future", I disagree completely.  I mean, everyone will be free to not vax, or boost, but their social options will start getting more limited.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: #UnleashSean on December 09, 2021, 08:56:44 PM
Damn lot of hatred on warriorchick for saying nothing more then it was a pain. wow boys, wow.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 09, 2021, 10:00:17 PM
Damn lot of hatred on warriorchick for saying nothing more then it was a pain. wow boys, wow.

Parrott the official line or the mope squad will decend on you with keyboard fury.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on December 09, 2021, 10:05:55 PM
Depending on your definition of "very near future", I disagree completely.  I mean, everyone will be free to not vax, or boost, but their social options will start getting more limited.

I mean, 2 dose vaccines have been widely available for almost a year.  And I still find it more uncommon than common to present proof of vaccination for admittance (stuff in NYC and international travel are all that Ive done since I was vaxxed 7 months ago).  So I think that would come first before boosters.  If you're talking boosters being mandatory for restaurants and sporting events before, say, end of Q1 2022, id be very surprised.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 09, 2021, 10:27:21 PM
If you're talking boosters being mandatory for restaurants and sporting events before, say, end of Q1 2022, id be very surprised.

I guess I'm talking metropolitan areas, and if you're mostly based in WI (? I don't know), then anything is fair game, that's basically Idaho in my book.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 10, 2021, 01:55:55 AM
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/missouri-schools-mask-mandates-parents-email/63-19d85ed9-30f7-494f-a2c1-06dd1b2a6fd1

Missouri AG asks parents to turn in school districts enforcing their own  mask or quarantine policies.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: reinko on December 10, 2021, 05:40:04 AM
Damn lot of hatred on warriorchick for saying nothing more then it was a pain. wow boys, wow.

I just made the point that someone whining about waiting in line about showing a vax card, and it turns out that it is 100% THEIR fault because 1.) They blamed a new cell phone their husband had, and didn’t back up their photos properly 2.) Didn’t bother read up on local ordinances

I would call it being personally responsible, but hey you and Zig seemed to think it’s hatred.  🙄
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 10, 2021, 06:14:23 AM
Parrott the official line or the mope squad will decend on you with keyboard fury.

riiiiiiiiiight Zigs, right.  Not that she was making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 10, 2021, 06:21:02 AM
Damn lot of hatred on warriorchick for saying nothing more then it was a pain. wow boys, wow.


Well I asked how it was a pain because that wasn’t my experience in NYC. Only to find that it was because they didn’t know the rules before they left and weren’t prepared. So the pain wasn’t because of the rules, but because of their lack of preparation.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on December 10, 2021, 06:43:10 AM
The Clear app allows you to upload your vaccine information for free and gives you a readable QR code.
You do not have to be a paying Clear member to use it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 10, 2021, 08:02:34 AM
I was able to transfer my Walgreens record to my Apple Wallet. It shows a QR code, but I don’t know where that QR code can be used, honestly. I mean, not that I’m traveling to Europe, but our QR codes aren’t compatible with the EU Covid passes. NYC has their own app, I think Hawaii does too.
It looks really neat though.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 10, 2021, 08:05:53 AM
pretty soon we will be following the science, eyn'a?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on December 10, 2021, 08:39:14 AM
We can only hope.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 10, 2021, 11:02:57 AM
pretty soon we will be following the science, eyn'a?
Some of us. The other 20% of you will be following Tucker.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on December 10, 2021, 11:09:57 AM
I guess I'm talking metropolitan areas, and if you're mostly based in WI (? I don't know), then anything is fair game, that's basically Idaho in my book.

Chicago, Denver, Dallas, DC.  All metro spots Ive been to in the last 6 months where I didn't see it with any regularity.

Do I think more proof of vaxx is coming/will be more common?  Yes.  Do I think that will be a 2+1 shot minimum anytime soon?  No.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 10, 2021, 11:39:20 AM
pretty soon we will be following the science, eyn'a?

I'm still waiting on that conclusive evidence that ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are effective treatments you've been promising us for the last year.

Guess you should reconsider who you 'follow'.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 10, 2021, 12:10:59 PM
Chicago, Denver, Dallas, DC.  All metro spots Ive been to in the last 6 months where I didn't see it with any regularity.

Do I think more proof of vaxx is coming/will be more common?  Yes.  Do I think that will be a 2+1 shot minimum anytime soon?  No.

I mean most of the west coast, NYC are already doing it without booster (restaurants).  Denver requires it for large indoor gatherings.  Once the CDC changes "fully vaccinated" to include boosters, it will happen in those places.   That covers at least 1/4 of all US population.  And I expect it will "spread".
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 10, 2021, 01:09:44 PM
Chicago doesn’t have a citywide vax mandate, though it’s under consideration. Most live Theaters and some bars/restaurants do. We did at my church’s Christmas concert last week.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 11, 2021, 07:22:10 AM
I'm still waiting on that conclusive evidence that ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are effective treatments you've been promising us for the last year.

Guess you should reconsider who you 'follow'.



Read Kennedy's book, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 11, 2021, 07:34:20 AM


Read Kennedy's book, hey?

Read Lewis’s book, hey?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 11, 2021, 07:39:47 AM
The pandemic has turned 4ever into a Kennedy fan.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 11, 2021, 07:45:01 AM
Imagine being THAT devoted to minimizing a pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans that you would start touting the work of noted antivaxxer Robert Kennedy, Jr.  Despite the fact that empirical evidence suggests that vaccinations are both incredibly safe and incredibly effective.

Not our proudest moments as Americans and Marquette alumni.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 11, 2021, 07:49:40 AM
Imagine being THAT devoted to minimizing a pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans that you would start touting the work of noted antivaxxer Robert Kennedy, Jr.  Despite the fact that empirical evidence suggests that vaccinations are both incredibly safe and incredibly effective.

Not our proudest moments as Americans and Marquette alumni.

Just gargle some mouthwash.  Pandemic over
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on December 11, 2021, 07:58:22 AM


Read Kennedy's book, hey?

It can be found in the fiction section.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: 🏀 on December 11, 2021, 09:10:31 AM
Read Lewis’s book, hey?

Read Meadows’s PowerPoint, eh?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Billy Hoyle on December 14, 2021, 04:50:56 PM
Is anyone following the same rules that Santa Cruz County put out and masking inside your own home when you have guests over?  How does this get reasonably enforced? Are neighbors calling the mask police on each other? Better not give Newsom any ideas.

http://www.santacruzhealth.org/HSAHome/HealthAlerts.aspx

Masks must be worn in private settings, including your home, when non-household members are present.

This feeds into the right wing paranoia of government overreach and suddenly doesn't make them look all that paranoid if your behavior inside your own house is being policed.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 14, 2021, 06:03:39 PM
Is anyone following the same rules that Santa Cruz County put out and masking inside your own home when you have guests over?  How does this get reasonably enforced? Are neighbors calling the mask police on each other? Better not give Newsom any ideas.

http://www.santacruzhealth.org/HSAHome/HealthAlerts.aspx

Masks must be worn in private settings, including your home, when non-household members are present.

This feeds into the right wing paranoia of government overreach and suddenly doesn't make them look all that paranoid if your behavior inside your own house is being policed.

In an open casket wake what’s the fine if the deceased isn’t
masked?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on December 14, 2021, 06:07:55 PM
He isn't breathing on anyone.  Plus, he probably just had it.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 14, 2021, 06:15:25 PM
Science on that is evolving.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on December 14, 2021, 06:26:37 PM
Dead people are breathing?   
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 14, 2021, 08:18:41 PM
Your teal antenna broken?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: tower912 on December 14, 2021, 08:59:20 PM
I thought I was responding to teal with teal.
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 14, 2021, 09:12:07 PM
FWIW, I just unlocked after it's political pause today.  And Billy immediately replies will a politically inciting post.  I mean...I can lock it again.  It only takes fractions of a second...
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on December 14, 2021, 09:14:06 PM
Dammit guys, Dad will turn the car RIGHT BACK AROUND
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 14, 2021, 09:15:06 PM
Dammit guys, Dad will turn the car RIGHT BACK AROUND

Well, I pull off the road and stop the car.  For real!  lol
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: pbiflyer on December 14, 2021, 09:38:00 PM
Dammit guys, Dad will turn the car RIGHT BACK AROUND

That made me laugh!
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: jesmu84 on December 14, 2021, 10:14:15 PM
Is anyone following the same rules that Santa Cruz County put out and masking inside your own home when you have guests over?  How does this get reasonably enforced? Are neighbors calling the mask police on each other? Better not give Newsom any ideas.

http://www.santacruzhealth.org/HSAHome/HealthAlerts.aspx

Masks must be worn in private settings, including your home, when non-household members are present.

This feeds into the right wing paranoia of government overreach and suddenly doesn't make them look all that paranoid if your behavior inside your own house is being policed.

Behavior inside your own home shouldn't be subject to law?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 14, 2021, 10:27:02 PM
Who knew the same folks who wanted to dismantle police force would come up with a policy a few months later that would require imbedding a cop in every home and apartment?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 14, 2021, 10:29:21 PM
FWIW, I just unlocked after it's political pause today.  And Billy immediately replies will a politically inciting post.  I mean...I can lock it again.  It only takes fractions of a second...
Hoopalooped
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: MU82 on December 14, 2021, 10:41:14 PM
Who knew the same folks who wanted to dismantle police force would come up with a policy a few months later that would require imbedding a cop in every home and apartment?

Yeah ... what kind of state would pass a law encouraging residents to go after other residents who are trying to make health-care decisions about their own bodies?
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: JWags85 on December 14, 2021, 11:00:49 PM
Thought you hated whataboutism
Title: Re: Masks
Post by: mu_hilltopper on March 02, 2023, 09:57:29 PM
I've followed this doc for a while on Youtube. 

TL;DR: Large study on masks.  Cloth/Surgical masks do nothing.  N95s might have a tiny benefit.

I disagree with him at the end, suggesting all the pro-mask people "apologize."   

The theory was that masks would help.  That .. made sense.  Nothing to apologize for, it was the best thought out there at the time. 

Looks like now science has advanced and they it has low efficacy, and we're totally focked for the next airborne disease.  #arbys

https://www.youtube.com/v/S3vY2LyQn1A