Masks

[shoothoops]

Marshall, MN...couple wears swastika masks to Walmart.

https://m.startribune.com/couple-flaunts-swastika-facemasks-at-marshall-walmart/571909142/

[Warriors4ever]

https://www.thelocal.ch/20200715/only-those-with-plastic-visors-were-infected-swiss-government-warns-against-face-shields

Masks > face shields

[shoothoops]

He sells masks...but...he won't wear one. Calls it the "Scamdemic" and he says mask mandates are Communist. But yes he'll stand there without a mask and sell you masks to make a buck. Amarillo, TX:

https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1287042678757171200?s=19

[muguru]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/business/masks-walmart-home-depot-lowes-cvs/index.html

[Warriors4ever]

So really we have ceded control to the anti-science selfish people. Because no one can be bothered to tell them ‘no’.

[MU82]

Marshall, MN...couple wears swastika masks to Walmart.

https://m.startribune.com/couple-flaunts-swastika-facemasks-at-marshall-walmart/571909142/

Freedom of speech, no?

[rocky_warrior]

If you're referring to the article guru posted, it's understandable.  These companies already have designated minimum wage workers as "essential", now your asking them to remind people to wear masks.    Asking them to enforce that is putting them in the way of both physical harm, and a risk to their health.  In the case of Walmart (and probably most larger stores), the employees are supposed to report non-maskers to their superiors.  I'm sure that gets to store security which is responsible for enforcement.

[Jockey]

Freedom of speech, no?

I support their right to wear offensive masks.

I also support the right of people to be upset and speak out against it.

[MU82]

I support their right to wear offensive masks.

I also support the right of people to be upset and speak out against it.

Agree 100%.

This is why the obvious follow-up question when the purported leader of our nation was calling the confederate flag a "freedom of speech" issue was, "How would you feel if they were flying flags with swastikas?" I'd have loved to have heard his answer. And then the follow-up to that would be, "Why do you criticize kneeling ahtletes, the vast majority of whom are Black, for peacefully expressing their freedom of speech? Didn't you say in a national speech that you're 'an ally of all peaceful protesters'? Was that lip service or do you really mean it?"

These companies already have designated minimum wage workers as "essential", now your asking them to remind people to wear masks.    Asking them to enforce that is putting them in the way of both physical harm, and a risk to their health.  In the case of Walmart (and probably most larger stores), the employees are supposed to report non-maskers to their superiors.  I'm sure that gets to store security which is responsible for enforcement.

Agree 100%.

A shelf-stocker or cashier at Walmart or Target or Lowes or Kroger didn't sign up to be an enforcer. I don't want some 17-year-old kid or some 70-year-old woman (or anybody in between) to get seriously hurt or killed because he or she confronted a selfish, law-breaking mouth-breather. Report it to a supervisor, who then can call in those who are paid to enforce store rules and/or state laws.

[rocky_warrior]

Hm, looking for opinions here...lately folks have been latching onto the idea that masks with ventilators are bad (including my workplace).  Here's an example:

https://healthnewshub.org/health-news-hub/top-news/do-not-use-a-mask-with-a-filtered-valve-it-can-spread-covid-19/

Now, I understand that the ventilator allows "unfiltered" air out, and that *could* be bad.  But a cloth mask also allows a lot of unfiltered air out - and that's why they're more comfortable.  But - this should  only matter if the virus is airborne - correct?  Both the cloth mask, and ventilated 95 stop a majority of "droplets" which is their purpose. 

I mentioned in another thread, I have a couple ventilated N95's, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by wearing them.  Am I being jerk? 

I feel like this guidance is going overboard, and the only risk of using a ventilated mask (or cloth mask) is in "sterile" environments.

[BM1090]

Y were you surprised to see that?

Because people in every city I've been to in Wisconsin outside of Milwaukee have been blatantly disregarding mask recommendations.

Anecdotal but that's been my experience.

[mu_hilltopper]

Now, I understand that the ventilator allows "unfiltered" air out, and that *could* be bad.  But a cloth mask also allows a lot of unfiltered air out - and that's why they're more comfortable.  But - this should  only matter if the virus is airborne - correct?  Both the cloth mask, and ventilated 95 stop a majority of "droplets" which is their purpose. 

Whoa, thanks for posting that, I had no idea.   Back in February, I bought some of these on eBay, I thought they were the gold standard. 

That being said .. only *some* of your exhalation is going through the valve.  My glasses still fog up, meaning air is escaping upwards .. frankly, I wasn't even sure the valve was working at all as you can feel the mask bulge out and leak as you exhale. .. Just like a non-vented mask would do.

Seemed more like a marketing gimmick, frankly.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Hm, looking for opinions here...lately folks have been latching onto the idea that masks with ventilators are bad (including my workplace).  Here's an example:

https://healthnewshub.org/health-news-hub/top-news/do-not-use-a-mask-with-a-filtered-valve-it-can-spread-covid-19/

Now, I understand that the ventilator allows "unfiltered" air out, and that *could* be bad.  But a cloth mask also allows a lot of unfiltered air out - and that's why they're more comfortable.  But - this should  only matter if the virus is airborne - correct?  Both the cloth mask, and ventilated 95 stop a majority of "droplets" which is their purpose. 

I mentioned in another thread, I have a couple ventilated N95's, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by wearing them.  Am I being jerk? 

I feel like this guidance is going overboard, and the only risk of using a ventilated mask (or cloth mask) is in "sterile" environments.

I think you come to a conclusion on this based on why are you wearing a mask.  If you believe masks are there to lower your risk You fall one way.  If you are trying to stop collective spread, you fall elsewhere.  Or of course you just didn’t know. 

I will tell you we had a friend go into a health clinic and they would not allow that mask for the reason in the article.  Gave her a new surgical mask instead. 

[GB Warrior]

If you're referring to the article guru posted, it's understandable.  These companies already have designated minimum wage workers as "essential", now your asking them to remind people to wear masks.    Asking them to enforce that is putting them in the way of both physical harm, and a risk to their health.  In the case of Walmart (and probably most larger stores), the employees are supposed to report non-maskers to their superiors.  I'm sure that gets to store security which is responsible for enforcement.

This is why national, state, or municipal policy is so important in this context. They can be the unseen bad guy. 'I'm sorry, but the state is telling me you can't come in here without a mask', is a different confrontation.

Also, if anyone wants to talk about what 'freedom' means in the context of a civilized citizens, it's not getting to make choices that deny others' right to make my own. Just a harrowing read.
https://nyti.ms/3g1o1CP

[muguru]

Agree 100%.

This is why the obvious follow-up question when the purported leader of our nation was calling the confederate flag a "freedom of speech" issue was, "How would you feel if they were flying flags with swastikas?" I'd have loved to have heard his answer. And then the follow-up to that would be, "Why do you criticize kneeling ahtletes, the vast majority of whom are Black, for peacefully expressing their freedom of speech? Didn't you say in a national speech that you're 'an ally of all peaceful protesters'? Was that lip service or do you really mean it?"

Agree 100%.



A shelf-stocker or cashier at Walmart or Target or Lowes or Kroger didn't sign up to be an enforcer. I don't want some 17-year-old kid or some 70-year-old woman (or anybody in between) to get seriously hurt or killed because he or she confronted a selfish, law-breaking mouth-breather. Report it to a supervisor, who then can call in those who are paid to enforce store rules and/or state laws.

Honest question, not looking for an argument or anything like that, do you believe there are other( more effective) ways to "protest" than kneeling during a national anthem?? Or is that the only option they have to get their point across??

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

This is why national, state, or municipal policy is so important in this context. They can be the unseen bad guy. 'I'm sorry, but the state is telling me you can't come in here without a mask', is a different confrontation.

Also, if anyone wants to talk about what 'freedom' means in the context of a civilized citizens, it's not getting to make choices that deny others' right to make my own. Just a harrowing read.
https://nyti.ms/3g1o1CP

I will read the article.  I would say though we make these choices everyday as a society.  No shirt, no shoes, no service.  Vaccines for entry into elementary schools.  Education requirements to be a certified professional.  Also businesses are allowed to set standards as long as they are higher than the minimum required by law.  That is their right. 

Everything doesn’t need to become Armageddon or the last stand.  Sometimes things that make sense for most become what makes sense for all. 

[muguru]

Because people in every city I've been to in Wisconsin outside of Milwaukee have been blatantly disregarding mask recommendations.

Anecdotal but that's been my experience.

Another question which again, I am not looking to start an argument by any means, just want your opinion..Using the CDC #'s we see that Milwaukee county has 37.4% of the States cases a total of 17,537 cases and 422 deaths(.02%). The next closest is Dane county with 8% of the total cases statewide(3732 total) and 33 deaths (.008%). There are only 8 counties in the entire state that have over 1,000 cases, and those same 8 are the only ones with 20+ deaths. In fact you see the drop off in death total from #1 Milwaukee county(422), to the next closest being Dane county(33), that's pretty stark.

So my question is, isn't it reasonable to assume(based on the data/science) that in a vast majority of counties in Wisconsin, the cases/deaths are so low per 100,000, that masks really won't accomplish much anyway?? Point being, the spread doesn't seem to be terrible to begin with, nor is the death count(though 1 is too many), so in studying the data it would appear that as a whole Wisconsin hasn't been terrible to begin with since covid started, are masks serving any purpose in some areas or is it more "out of abundance of caution"??

[jficke13]

Another question which again, I am not looking to start an argument by any means, just want your opinion..Using the CDC #'s we see that Milwaukee county has 37.4% of the States cases a total of 17,537 cases and 422 deaths(.02%). The next closest is Dane county with 8% of the total cases statewide(3732 total) and 33 deaths (.008%). There are only 8 counties in the entire state that have over 1,000 cases, and those same 8 are the only ones with 20+ deaths. In fact you see the drop off in death total from #1 Milwaukee county(422), to the next closest being Dane county(33), that's pretty stark.

So my question is, isn't it reasonable to assume(based on the data/science) that in a vast majority of counties in Wisconsin, the cases/deaths are so low per 100,000, that masks really won't accomplish much anyway?? Point being, the spread doesn't seem to be terrible to begin with, nor is the death count(though 1 is too many), so in studying the data it would appear that as a whole Wisconsin hasn't been terrible to begin with since covid started, are masks serving any purpose in some areas or is it more "out of abundance of caution"??

Maybe it's an abundance of caution, but the way I see it is that it's not asking much of society to demand mask compliance. It's a mask. It's not a space suit. It is not that hard to wear one when you're outside, so what possible reason could one have to not do it?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Guru - Masks are not going to save any one person.  The issue with this thing is not any-ONE.  It is solely an issue of collective spread.  This issue is compounded by the fact that you are contagious before you feel sick - if you feel sick at all. 

Said a different way, I dont care if you get it, but I do care that you will likely infect three people who then infect three people, etc.

So, based on what we now know, it is not reasonable to think that you shouldn't wear a mask if you are going to be in contact with people you are not podding with indoors or close proximity for long periods of time.  If you are in a rural area, you are probably lower risk of becoming a vector for spread, but when the virus comes, like it has in many rural counties, you will extend the lifetime of the epidemic.

[pbiflyer]

I bet most car wrecks and drunk driving incidents take place in Milwaukee county.
Would it make sense to only enforce dui and seat belt laws in SE Wisconsin?

[pbiflyer]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/business/masks-walmart-home-depot-lowes-cvs/index.html

To be fair...a lot of you get your news from CNN, and I just wish you'd call them what they are

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/exposecnnpart1/

Ironic, no?

[muguru]

Guru - Masks are not going to save any one person.  The issue with this thing is not any-ONE.  It is solely an issue of collective spread.  This issue is compounded by the fact that you are contagious before you feel sick - if you feel sick at all. 

Said a different way, I dont care if you get it, but I do care that you will likely infect three people who then infect three people, etc.

So, based on what we now know, it is not reasonable to think that you shouldn't wear a mask if you are going to be in contact with people you are not podding with indoors or close proximity for long periods of time.  If you are in a rural area, you are probably lower risk of becoming a vector for spread, but when the virus comes, like it has in many rural counties, you will extend the lifetime of the epidemic.

If you can properly social distance should masks still be a necessity?? I understand both have their place, but I guess I've never heard it really stated that IF it were too be one or the other(ie masks or social distancing), what is MORE effective?? I hear people talk about wearing masks with the caveat "if you can't properly social distance", so if you can, a mask isn't necessarily needed/required??

[rocky_warrior]

I think you come to a conclusion on this based on why are you wearing a mask.  If you believe masks are there to lower your risk You fall one way.  If you are trying to stop collective spread, you fall elsewhere.  Or of course you just didn’t know. 

I will tell you we had a friend go into a health clinic and they would not allow that mask for the reason in the article.  Gave her a new surgical mask instead.

Right, and I knew some unfiltered air was getting out, but like I said - it's the same with a surgical mask.  Scientifically - I don't see the difference, and I'd be interested to see a study on "droplet release" from both kinds of masks.

I will be nice and comply with my work and any other requirements (I mostly wear cloth there anyway - the breath much easier!  Hah.).  But I'm not sure the science is adding up on this one.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

If you can properly social distance should masks still be a necessity?? I understand both have their place, but I guess I've never heard it really stated that IF it were too be one or the other(ie masks or social distancing), what is MORE effective?? I hear people talk about wearing masks with the caveat "if you can't properly social distance", so if you can, a mask isn't necessarily needed/required??

I will preface this by saying I am no expert, but all of this can be found on the internet with multiple sources and opinions.  In fact i bet you can find someone that says anything you want, but here is my takeaway.

Depends on location.  Outdoors you can probably find many locations where you can socially distance easily.  Indoors not conclusive--six feet may not a good rule of thumb--air quality matters, etc.  Also time and amount matters.  So there are people studying whether or masks help reduce severity of illness if you do get exposure (remember masks arent perfect, just a significant risk reducer). 

This doesnt have to be hard.  Bring a mask, wear a mask, if you are by yourself and you encounter someone, put your mask on. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Right, and I knew some unfiltered air was getting out, but like I said - it's the same with a surgical mask.  Scientifically - I don't see the difference, and I'd be interested to see a study on "droplet release" from both kinds of masks.

I will be nice and comply with my work and any other requirements (I mostly wear cloth there anyway - the breath much easier!  Hah.).  But I'm not sure the science is adding up on this one.

I haven't seen it either, only the study that did uncovered, single ply cloth, cloth surgical, surgical and non-valve N95.  What I can tell you is from a containment standpoint a cloth mask, N95 and two ply cloth contained a ton (not all).  I can imagine a sneeze or cough shooting through the valve.  It would be interesting to see what it looked like with talking...as that is the majority that we are likely trying to catch.

Hey maybe you can get a tiny mask for your valve