Racism at Talladega

[shoothoops]

I am certainly not defending the practice, but if that is the case, why has this never been brought up before like the Confederate flags were?  No one thought, "Hey, as long as we are getting rid of racist symbols, let's lose all the noose garage door pulls?"

Also, if it were a common practice, no one said, "Oh, yeah, I forgot that people do this.  Let's get rid of it"? Instead, they immediately call the FBI?

I don't know.

But what I do know is if the end result is less racism and more empowerment for black people and people of color in Nascar, I'm all for it. No one was falsely accused, the story wasn't manufactured by Wallace.

I don't know enough of the specifics of this case nor Nascar. But I've seen many noose defenders suggesting it isn't the first time or completely unheard of in the sport. This time it happened to involve a black driver. It would make sense the response would be more significant.

The extra racial attention and scrutiny is w good thing here.

[MU82]

I don't know.

But what I do know is if the end result is less racism and more empowerment for black people and people of color in Nascar, I'm all for it. No one was falsely accused, the story wasn't manufactured by Wallace.

I don't know enough of the specifics of this case nor Nascar. But I've seen many noose defenders suggesting it isn't the first time or completely unheard of in the sport. This time it happened to involve a black driver. It would make sense the response would be more significant.

The extra racial attention and scrutiny is w good thing here.

Wallace says noose-like garage pulls are not common in NASCAR.

“The image that I have seen of what was hanging in my garage is not a garage pull. I’ve been racing all my life. We’ve raced out of hundreds of garages that never had garage pulls like that. It was a noose. Wasn’t directed at me, but somebody tied a noose.”

[shoothoops]

Wallace says noose-like garage pulls are not common in NASCAR.

“The image that I have seen of what was hanging in my garage is not a garage pull. I’ve been racing all my life. We’ve raced out of hundreds of garages that never had garage pulls like that. It was a noose. Wasn’t directed at me, but somebody tied a noose.”

And, all it takes is one noose. All it takes is one Confederate flag, etc...

I saw video early this morning of what was clearly a noose.

[warriorchick]

And, all it takes is one noose racist idiot.

FIFY

I am glad to hear that this is not common practice, and anyone who uses this incident to confirm their biases of southerners or NASCAR is also an idiot.

[mu_hilltopper]

Not sure why this is a thing any more.   Some asshat might have made a noose for whatever reason and 9 months later it's a huge deal. 

I guarantee it was not the only noose created in the past 9 months.  Sure, it's a terrible symbol of inhumanity.  Meanwhile the over/under of people getting Nazi tattoos today is 100.   

Not to belittle either .. just saying, plenty of every-day awful to go around.

[keefe]

I'm not entirely convinced it was "fashioned" as a noose....the noose knot is a self-constricting knot(which is why it's used the way it is) not sure why a garage pull would be tied in that type of knot unless you wanted to re-tie it every day. A bowline would be a much more appropriate knot.

*as an Eagle Scout, avid sailor, and enthusiastic kinbaku aficionado I know lots of things about knots

Eng's Eagle Scout Project: Operation Shibari

[shoothoops]

Not sure why this is a thing any more.   Some asshat might have made a noose for whatever reason and 9 months later it's a huge deal. 

I guarantee it was not the only noose created in the past 9 months.  Sure, it's a terrible symbol of inhumanity.  Meanwhile the over/under of people getting Nazi tattoos today is 100.   

Not to belittle either .. just saying, plenty of every-day awful to go around.

Viewers. Several million people watched the race. What channel carries the Nazi tattoo sport?

The noose, the flags, etc....the culture of the sport, .....there is timing and opportunity for long overdue big changes across the sport to change both perception and reality. Hopefully the race topic is a daily thing moving forward with the sport. That would be great.

Gotta start somewhere instead of saying oh well these things happen daily in a variety of ways in society. One by one keep topics alive until changes are made. This is a good thing.

It isn't an either/or situation. But less people will physically see those 100 nazi tattoos today.

[MU82]

Not sure why this is a thing any more.   Some asshat might have made a noose for whatever reason and 9 months later it's a huge deal. 

I guarantee it was not the only noose created in the past 9 months.  Sure, it's a terrible symbol of inhumanity.  Meanwhile the over/under of people getting Nazi tattoos today is 100.   

Not to belittle either .. just saying, plenty of every-day awful to go around.

Well, it's a thing today because 24 hours ago everybody was abuzz about what happened Monday and still thought the noose really was a racial epithet aimed at Wallace. So just naturally, from a news-cycle standpoint, it's a thing.

It's also a thing because the d-bags who think "reverse racism" actually is worse than real racism got to celebrate: "Yay! It's another Smollett! The coloreds were trying to trap us - they're such racists."

Otherwise, I agree mostly with what shoothoops says. One thing I don't want us all to do now is  shrug our shoulders and say, "Whatever." Some momentum has built up. Actual change, albeit it small so far, is taking place all over the country. I don't want that momentum stalled.

[mu_hilltopper]

I think my point is .. this episode has gone from "holy crap, a NASCAR driver was targeted with a racist symbol, let's all rally around him and make a huge statement" .. to "someone 9 months ago made a noose or something, but it's not aimed at anyone .. it might be just some rope .. which the FBI calls a garage pull."

It went from a grand slam to a foul ball.

[shoothoops]

I think my point is .. this episode has gone from "holy crap, a NASCAR driver was targeted with a racist symbol, let's all rally around him and make a huge statement" .. to "someone 9 months ago made a noose or something, but it's not aimed at anyone .. it might be just some rope .. which the FBI calls a garage pull."

It went from a grand slam to a foul ball.

And I think some others, (at least me) are saying.....that doesn't matter. A noose is a noose left 9 months ago or today, intentionally racist or ignorant, it doesn't matter. It presents an opportunity to address racism in Nascar. It really isn't a foul ball in any way in my opinion.

[mu03eng]

You aren't wrong

[real chili 83]

Has anyone published a picture of the noose?

[MU82]

I think my point is .. this episode has gone from "holy crap, a NASCAR driver was targeted with a racist symbol, let's all rally around him and make a huge statement" .. to "someone 9 months ago made a noose or something, but it's not aimed at anyone .. it might be just some rope .. which the FBI calls a garage pull."

It went from a grand slam to a foul ball.

I'll split the difference and say it went from a grand slam to a line-drive double into the gap.

Even in the aftermath of the "non-story," we still get to further the discussion because the "non-story" was a story for a news cycle or 2.

[panda]

Has anyone published a picture of the noose?

Yes. It was posted earlier in the thread. It’s either the most unique garage door rope ever or it’s a noose. You can decide.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Has anyone published a picture of the noose?

I saw it on cnn’s website this morning. This article has a still. I think there is a video that is a little crisper.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/bubba-wallace-response-fbi-hate-crime-investigation/index.html

[Billy Hoyle]

I saw it on cnn’s website this morning. This article has a still. I think there is a video that is a little crisper.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/bubba-wallace-response-fbi-hate-crime-investigation/index.html

that's a goddamn noose.

[rocket surgeon]

I think my point is .. this episode has gone from "holy crap, a NASCAR driver was targeted with a racist symbol, let's all rally around him and make a huge statement" .. to "someone 9 months ago made a noose or something, but it's not aimed at anyone .. it might be just some rope .. which the FBI calls a garage pull."

It went from a grand slam to a foul ball.

  thank you topper-good analogy. 

  i am glad our FBI got to the bottom of this and clarified it.  i believe most of us would all agree that a noose is not a good look for anyone symbolizing torture and death

   wouldn't bubba have noticed it as he was assigned garage #4?  the "noose" had been there since october 2019 and i did hear that these "rope arrangements" are present in many of the garages as a means to open and close the doors, i'm assuming, if the automatic door opener was malfunctioning

[keefe]

  thank you topper-good analogy. 

  i am glad our FBI got to the bottom of this and clarified it.  i believe most of us would all agree that a noose is not a good look for anyone symbolizing torture and death

   wouldn't bubba have noticed it as he was assigned garage #4?  the "noose" had been there since october 2019 and i did hear that these "rope arrangements" are present in many of the garages as a means to open and close the doors, i'm assuming, if the automatic door opener was malfunctioning

You sonuvabitchin' racist! How dare you stray from the path of truth! How dare you!

Q: A collection of nooses or rope properly stowed for a zesty kinbaku-bi session?

[rocky_warrior]

  thank you topper-good analogy. 

  i am glad our FBI got to the bottom of this and clarified it.  i believe most of us would all agree that a noose is not a good look for anyone symbolizing torture and death

   wouldn't bubba have noticed it as he was assigned garage #4?  the "noose" had been there since october 2019 and i did hear that these "rope arrangements" are present in many of the garages as a means to open and close the doors, i'm assuming, if the automatic door opener was malfunctioning

Why do you hesitate to call it a noose?  Instead you say "rope arrangement(s)"- From the FBI and US Attorney:

In a joint statement, U.S. Attorney Jay E. Town and FBI Special Agent in Charge Johnnie Sharp, Jr. said, "Although the noose is now known to have been in garage number 4 in 2019, nobody could have known Mr. Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week."

This wasn't a "rope pull" being mistaken for a noose.  It was a noose, being used as a rope pull.  You have to be dense to be claiming otherwise, when, well, facts.

[MU82]

Why do you hesitate to call it a noose?  Instead you say "rope arrangement(s)"- From the FBI and US Attorney:

In a joint statement, U.S. Attorney Jay E. Town and FBI Special Agent in Charge Johnnie Sharp, Jr. said, "Although the noose is now known to have been in garage number 4 in 2019, nobody could have known Mr. Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week."

This wasn't a "rope pull" being mistaken for a noose.  It was a noose, being used as a rope pull.  You have to be dense to be claiming otherwise, when, well, facts.

This. Obviously.

It gets frustrating when so many embrace alternative facts, deny that systemic racism exists, and believe "reverse racism" is worse than actual racism. So wrapped up in their denial that they can't even call a noose a noose.

It's difficult to have conversations that move our country forward when tens of millions of people long for the pre-Civil Rights Era days.

But the country IS moving forward, no matter how much those tens of millions of people don't like it.

[rocket surgeon]

Why do you hesitate to call it a noose?  Instead you say "rope arrangement(s)"- From the FBI and US Attorney:

In a joint statement, U.S. Attorney Jay E. Town and FBI Special Agent in Charge Johnnie Sharp, Jr. said, "Although the noose is now known to have been in garage number 4 in 2019, nobody could have known Mr. Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week."

This wasn't a "rope pull" being mistaken for a noose.  It was a noose, being used as a rope pull.  You have to be dense to be claiming otherwise, when, well, facts.

first off, i called it a noose.  secondly, because the word noose has mainly one connotation,  that being an instrument of death and torture.   i secondarily referred to it as a "rope arrangement".   the rope arrangement term is essentially what they were as they were throughout the nascar garages.  do you refer to all the rope loops you have around your house as nooses?  hey ma, could you give my noose a pull because the garage door opener seems to be jammed.  i don't think i've ever thought of rope loops as nooses.  if you do, you're a racist.  don't get me started on the use of euphemisms.  you guys are the masters of them. 

  one more thing-when others do not think the way you do or have alternate opinions, are they all "dense"?  your elitist attitude is one of the reasons  civil conversations are difficult if not impossible to come by here.  you as one of the mods, could help foster more civil dialogue by refraining from the personal attacks on those you may disagree with.  you just gave your guys the "thumbs up" to belittle those who don't hold the same opinion or think the same way.  in other words insult us.  it's no wonder this board is deteriorating fast 

[Hards Alumni]

first off, i called it a noose.  secondly, because the word noose has mainly one connotation,  that being an instrument of death and torture.   i secondarily referred to it as a "rope arrangement".   the rope arrangement term is essentially what they were as they were throughout the nascar garages.  do you refer to all the rope loops you have around your house as nooses?  hey ma, could you give my noose a pull because the garage door opener seems to be jammed.  i don't think i've ever thought of rope loops as nooses.  if you do, you're a racist.  don't get me started on the use of euphemisms.  you guys are the masters of them. 

  one more thing-when others do not think the way you do or have alternate opinions, are they all "dense"?  your elitist attitude is one of the reasons  civil conversations are difficult if not impossible to come by here.  you as one of the mods, could help foster more civil dialogue by refraining from the personal attacks on those you may disagree with.  you just gave your guys the "thumbs up" to belittle those who don't hold the same opinion or think the same way.  in other words insult us.  it's no wonder this board is deteriorating fast

You seem to think that there is a reasonable disagreement in this situation.  There isn't.  There is racism, and there isn't.   Not all rope loops are nooses, but all nooses are rope loops.  If you can't see the difference, you aren't trying to.  This is why you were called dense.  What would you prefer to be called, so that we can continue a civil conversation?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

first off, i called it a noose.  secondly, because the word noose has mainly one connotation,  that being an instrument of death and torture.   i secondarily referred to it as a "rope arrangement".   the rope arrangement term is essentially what they were as they were throughout the nascar garages.  do you refer to all the rope loops you have around your house as nooses?  hey ma, could you give my noose a pull because the garage door opener seems to be jammed.  i don't think i've ever thought of rope loops as nooses.  if you do, you're a racist.  don't get me started on the use of euphemisms.  you guys are the masters of them. 

  one more thing-when others do not think the way you do or have alternate opinions, are they all "dense"?  your elitist attitude is one of the reasons  civil conversations are difficult if not impossible to come by here.  you as one of the mods, could help foster more civil dialogue by refraining from the personal attacks on those you may disagree with.  you just gave your guys the "thumbs up" to belittle those who don't hold the same opinion or think the same way.  in other words insult us.  it's no wonder this board is deteriorating fast 

First, according to one of the mods, it actually has more traffic than any other time in the summer, so it isn't deteriorating fast by any means.

Second, you put "noose" in quotes.  When you do that, you it sounds like you are suggesting it isn't actually a noose.  Above, you made comments about "assuming guilt before innocence" despite the fact that no one had been assumed guilty of anything.  And then you brought up statues.  And that's why you get called out on things.  You often devolve into a series of talking points.  That's not "civil conversation."  That's being a parrot. 

The fact that it was a noose is not a dispute.  It was a noose.  The motivations behind whomever tied the noose, and whether or not he/she undersood why it was a problem is the question.  And I think everyone is relieved that it wasn't directed specifically at Wallace.

[rocket surgeon]

You seem to think that there is a reasonable disagreement in this situation.  There isn't.  There is racism, and there isn't.   Not all rope loops are nooses, but all nooses are rope loops.  If you can't see the difference, you aren't trying to.  This is why you were called dense.  What would you prefer to be called, so that we can continue a civil conversation?

actually, i'm glad there isn't much disagreement here with the exception of some wanting to jump to conclusions before all the facts come out.  then, once the original narrative is discounted, they want to continue as if it were a noose.  the reason i called it something other than a noose is just as i stated.  call it a rope handle then.  a noose is an instrument of terror and death.  this turned out not to be a noose.  no need to call anyone anything

[Hards Alumni]

actually, i'm glad there isn't much disagreement here with the exception of some wanting to jump to conclusions before all the facts come out.  then, once the original narrative is discounted, they want to continue as if it were a noose.  the reason i called it something other than a noose is just as i stated.  call it a rope handle then.  a noose is an instrument of terror and death.  this turned out not to be a noose.  no need to call anyone anything

But it is a noose.