Sweden?

[mu_hilltopper]

Dr. John Campbell has a Youtube popular channel where he discusses COVID related topics every day.

He's done several on Vitamin D .. same conclusions as the above video:  Take it.   There's decent enough theory and evidence that it reduces death, reduces severity of COVID.

Frankly, I'm bewildered why this advice isn't broadcast heavily, e.g., Vitamin D should be given out like candy.  It's so cheap .. $4 bucks is a YEAR supply.   It should be plastered all over the news.

https://youtu.be/GCSXNGc7pfs

[Hards Alumni]

100% agree.

[MU82]

Sounds like Vitamin D is something about which we really can ask:

What the hell do you have to lose?

Seriously.

[pbiflyer]

Sounds like Vitamin D is something about which we really can ask:

What the hell do you have to lose?

Seriously.

While it is a far sight safer than HQC,  there are issues with excessive doses. Given Americans penchant for more is better, it should be advised not to take excessive amounts.  But yeah, probably not a lot of downside.

6 Side Effects of Too Much Vitamin D

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-side-effects#8

[MU82]

While it is a far sight safer than HQC,  there are issues with excessive doses. Given Americans penchant for more is better, it should be advised not to take excessive amounts.  But yeah, probably not a lot of downside.

6 Side Effects of Too Much Vitamin D

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-side-effects#8

Dang it!

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

While it is a far sight safer than HQC,  there are issues with excessive doses. Given Americans penchant for more is better, it should be advised not to take excessive amounts.  But yeah, probably not a lot of downside.

6 Side Effects of Too Much Vitamin D

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-side-effects#8

Crap

[pbiflyer]

 

[WarriorDad]

While it is a far sight safer than HQC,  there are issues with excessive doses. Given Americans penchant for more is better, it should be advised not to take excessive amounts.  But yeah, probably not a lot of downside.

6 Side Effects of Too Much Vitamin D

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-side-effects#8

If you drink too much water you can die, too.

Too much of anything is a problem

[WarriorDad]

I was going to post that earlier, but at this point it almost feels like piling on.
The Swedish experiment to date has been a disaster. No evidence they're developing herd immunity more quickly than anyone else (if at all). No evidence that staying open has spared the economy. Death rates are worsening relative not only to their Nordic neighbors, but Europe as a whole.
Feel bad for those suffering as a result of what seems to be a terrible miscalculation.

Cue Cheeks arriving to say we can't possibly know if Sweden acted recklessly ...

Sweden’s economy grew.  There is your evidence.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-29/sweden-s-economy-posts-surprise-upside-amid-lax-covid-19-plan

[MarquetteDano]

Sweden’s economy grew.  There is your evidence.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-29/sweden-s-economy-posts-surprise-upside-amid-lax-covid-19-plan

That makes sense.  I was a bit surprised when all of the GDP forecasts had Sweden's economy shrinking about the same as their neighbors.  To me this does not really settle the argument at all though as on the one hand the economy didn't get hit as bad as their neighbors,  but it isn't like people think where if everything is open the economy does not still take a hit.

[Pakuni]

Sweden’s economy grew.  There is your evidence.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-29/sweden-s-economy-posts-surprise-upside-amid-lax-covid-19-plan

Evidence of what?
The economy grew 0.1 percent. In the first quarter. Want to wager that all of that growth occurred before March?
Their full-year forecast remains grim like the rest of the world.

In the meantime, Sweden now has 4,395 COVID deaths, compared to 1,127 in Denmark, Finland and Norway combined.
Sweden's death rate is four times greater than Denmark, 7.5 times greater than Finland and 10 times greater than Norway.
Those countries economies, by the way, shrank between 0.9 and 1.9 percent in the first quarter.

So, Sweden traded thousands of lives for a 0.1 percent growth rate and a fantasy about speedy acquisition of herd immunity.
Hurray?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Sweden’s economy grew.  There is your evidence.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-29/sweden-s-economy-posts-surprise-upside-amid-lax-covid-19-plan

It grew in the first quarter. So January through March. That’s not really a surprise since they didn’t shut things down. And the article says they aren’t going to escape a recession.

[WarriorDad]

That makes sense.  I was a bit surprised when all of the GDP forecasts had Sweden's economy shrinking about the same as their neighbors.  To me this does not really settle the argument at all though as on the one hand the economy didn't get hit as bad as their neighbors,  but it isn't like people think where if everything is open the economy does not still take a hit.

Everything is a trade off at the moment.  Bloomberg News wrote an article two weeks ago predicting savage economic situation to Sweden.  Forgive more for thinking it was some more cheerleading by people hoping for a bad outcome.  Everything is so political today.  Everything.

[Pakuni]

Everything is a trade off at the moment.  Bloomberg News wrote an article two weeks ago predicting savage economic situation to Sweden.  Forgive more for thinking it was some more cheerleading by people hoping for a bad outcome.  Everything is so political today.  Everything.

Stop being such a phony. You're the most political Scooper ever. Your posts on this topic from the very beginning, along with your ongoing refusal to concede Sweden very likely got it wrong, are entirely about your personal politics. You don't care about Sweden. You care about finding a way to be critical of (mostly Democratic) governors who enacted lockdowns.
The Swedish strategy cost thousands of lives. Fact.
You cavalierly call those deaths a "trade off." Some of us call it a tragedy. For you, Sweden is nothing more than a political talking point and the people there are nothing more than guinea pigs whose lives are all part of a grand experiment to see who's right (lest we forget your "somebody had to try it" remarks). The reality is the Swedish government chose a reckless path and its people have paid dearly for it.

[Hards Alumni]

Stop being such a phony. You're the most political Scooper ever. Your posts on this topic from the very beginning, along with your ongoing refusal to concede Sweden very likely got it wrong, are entirely about your personal politics. You don't care about Sweden. You care about finding a way to be critical of (mostly Democratic) governors who enacted lockdowns.
The Swedish strategy cost thousands of lives. Fact.
You cavalierly call those deaths a "trade off." Some of us call it a tragedy. For you, Sweden is nothing more than a political talking point and the people there are nothing more than guinea pigs whose lives are all part of a grand experiment to see who's right (lest we forget your "somebody had to try it" remarks). The reality is the Swedish government chose a reckless path and its people have paid dearly for it.

+1

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Everything is a trade off at the moment.  Bloomberg News wrote an article two weeks ago predicting savage economic situation to Sweden.  Forgive more for thinking it was some more cheerleading by people hoping for a bad outcome.  Everything is so political today.  Everything.

"The desire to be right all the time, push buttons, get the last word in, etc.  Just not good… UGH. Embarrassing.” –Jams

And congratulations on getting two more threads locked, Cheeks, and extending your Scoop all-time record.

[Jockey]

"The desire to be right all the time, push buttons, get the last word in, etc.  Just not good… UGH. Embarrassing.” –Jams

And congratulations on getting two more threads locked, Cheeks, and extending your Scoop all-time record.

Yet people argue with Chico and Elon every day. That’s all they are here for.

If everyone stopped responding to them, they would go away.

[Hards Alumni]

Yet people argue with Chico and Elon every day. That’s all they are here for.

If everyone stopped responding to them, they would go away.

I mean, are you self aware?

[WarriorDad]

Stop being such a phony. You're the most political Scooper ever. Your posts on this topic from the very beginning, along with your ongoing refusal to concede Sweden very likely got it wrong, are entirely about your personal politics. You don't care about Sweden. You care about finding a way to be critical of (mostly Democratic) governors who enacted lockdowns.
The Swedish strategy cost thousands of lives. Fact.
You cavalierly call those deaths a "trade off." Some of us call it a tragedy. For you, Sweden is nothing more than a political talking point and the people there are nothing more than guinea pigs whose lives are all part of a grand experiment to see who's right (lest we forget your "somebody had to try it" remarks). The reality is the Swedish government chose a reckless path and its people have paid dearly for it.

There is nothing to concede on Sweden. It is much too early to tell, but you are hellbent on being right all the time and cheering for an outcome.  I am not.  You are not a epidemiologist nor am I.  Scientists, their scientists, chose a path.  It may be right, and it may not.  We will find out down the road, but part of the analysis does have to factor in those tradeoffs.  You aren't factoring in deaths of suicides from economic hardships, or other lingering damage caused by decisions other countries chose.

I'm not a hyperpartisan like so many of you.  It is your way and anyone that disagrees is an idiot and wrong.  OK, that is your right to think that way.  We disagree.  It would be nice to see this play out, however, without all the cheerleading.

Several more articles yesterday and today about HCQ, including Yale University saying they will continue to push for it to be used early in prevention of the disease.  Also a forced correction by the Lancet in their test results that was barely mentioned because.   I'm an optimist, I want some of these things to work.  Some of you are absolutely thrilled they aren't.  You want Sweden to fail, you want some medical therapies to fail.  What an awful place we are in when politics drives everything you do.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

“I’ll stand up and be the first to admit being an epic hypocrite on this over the years.  100%.  OWNING IT! The worst at times.” –Jams

[Pakuni]

OK, Cheeks.

[Lennys Tap]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong

Sweden’s head epidemiologist admits he’s got it wrong.

[tower912]

Any leader worth his salt will admit that he made some mistakes and miscalculations on this.     Sweden, with a society and culture vastly different from the ours, tried a different path.     There has been a price to pay.     Their death rate is much higher than that of their neighbors.   

'Some' keep obsessing about Sweden.     I would look at the 4 countries of Russia, England, Brazil, and the United States.    What are their infection and death rates compared to the rest of the world.     What do they have in common?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Any leader worth his salt will admit that he made some mistakes and miscalculations on this.     Sweden, with a society and culture vastly different from the ours, tried a different path.     There has been a price to pay.     Their death rate is much higher than that of their neighbors.   

'Some' keep obsessing about Sweden.     I would look at the 4 countries of Russia, England, Brazil, and the United States.    What are their infection and death rates compared to the rest of the world.     What do they have in common?

I think this is a little too narrow....there should be a cut of all Western/Latin countries.  Clearly though whenever there is untracked our uncontrolled spread of this virus, bad things happen.... 

Now that lack of control can come through ignorance, willful or otherwise.  I hope we have learned our lesson there.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I would look at the 4 countries of Russia, England, Brazil, and the United States.    What are their infection and death rates compared to the rest of the world.     What do they have in common?

Posted this yesterday in the main thread:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/briefing/coronavirus-populist-leaders.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200602&instance_id=19010&nl=the-morning&regi_id=98421546&segment_id=29853&te=1&user_id=65badcb7c07b4cd4815fe5e758510381

"The four leaders — Jair Bolsonaro, Donald J. Trump, Vladimir V. Putin and Boris Johnson — also have a lot of differences, of course, as do their countries. Yet all four subscribe to versions of what Daniel Ziblatt, a government professor at Harvard and co-author of the book “How Democracies Die,” calls “radical right illiberal populism.”

"The connection between populist leaders and bad outbreaks is not perfect. Viktor Orban in Hungary and Rodrigo Duterte in the Philippines are also illiberal populists who responded quickly. Case counts appear to be relatively low in both countries. Both Mr. Orban and Mr. Duterte have used the crisis as an excuse to crack down further on political opponents.
But global patterns usually include exceptions. “There is in fact a pattern,” Mr. Levitsky said. “Populists don’t like experts — or relying on experts — and an anti-expertise response to the new coronavirus is deadly.”