Sweden?

[pbiflyer]

One small flaw in  Sweden's plan. If you don't get immunity, they are screwed.

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-still-don-t-know-if-recovering-from-covid-19-confers-immunity-or-not


Scientists Still Don't Know if Recovering From COVID-19 Confers Immunity or Not

Even as virologists zero in on the virus that causes COVID-19, a very basic question remains unanswered: do those who recover from the disease have immunity?

There is no clear answer to this question, experts say, even if many have assumed that contracting the potentially deadly disease confers immunity, at least for a while.

[Hards Alumni]

One small flaw in  Sweden's plan. If you don't get immunity, they are screwed.

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-still-don-t-know-if-recovering-from-covid-19-confers-immunity-or-not


Scientists Still Don't Know if Recovering From COVID-19 Confers Immunity or Not

Even as virologists zero in on the virus that causes COVID-19, a very basic question remains unanswered: do those who recover from the disease have immunity?

There is no clear answer to this question, experts say, even if many have assumed that contracting the potentially deadly disease confers immunity, at least for a while.

This was always discussed as a possible way to deal with the disease. 

Their method is putting all of their faith in the hope that there is such a thing as natural herd immunity.  If there isn't such a thing, they've made a very reckless decision, and it will cost far more lives.

[WarriorDad]

Lol, isn't the simple approach to let everyone live their lives as normal, pretend nothing is happening, and let lots of people die as a result, hoping for better results in the future?

I mean - since you seem focused on calling others simple...

That could be an approach, but not my desired approach.  My personal opinion is to protect those most vulnerable, which Sweden is doing.  Don't shut the entire economy down and all the damage that goes with it which brings many more problems. 

[tower912]

New Zealand is declaring victory.   Why no deep dive into the how and discussion about what we can learn from them?

[Warriors4ever]

I have been following them on TripAdvisor.They closed their borders, required any returning citizens to go into self-quarantine for two weeks. Stopped travel between regions. Very limited ability to leave the house, including limits on how far you could venture from home, and for what reason. They are doing testing and contact tracing. They believe they have stopped community spread. They took action early, and their Prime Minister gave clear and concise information based on logic and science, which they bought into.
Nobody complained about lack of ability to golf, go to the beach, or get their hair cut.

[tower912]

Indeed.   Extensive testing and tracing.   Complete quarantine.  4 new cases yesterday, or low enough to start reopening.   

[jesmu84]

New Zealand is declaring victory.   Why no deep dive into the how and discussion about what we can learn from them?

I tried.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60451.0

Maybe it has to do with what news/articles/headlines are passed around major US news outlets? Not sure how much NZ was talked about in those circles

[rocky_warrior]

New Zealand is declaring victory.   Why no deep dive into the how and discussion about what we can learn from them?

Not to pull a WarriorDad - but NZ is very isolated even without isolation.  The entire population (both islands 4.8M) is about half the size of Chicago metro population.  Their largest city is smaller than Milwaukee.  Only about 1/4 of the population lives on the south island.

Certainly worth an examination, but I don't think their methods would scale to a place such as the US.  Smaller EU countries maybe - but they have more bordering country problems than NZ.  Hawaii and Alaska might benefit though!

[tower912]

I agree, Rocky.   But Swedish society is not a good comparison, either.   10.1 Million people.   Single payer health care.    Few population centers.     

[Pakuni]

I agree, Rocky.   But Swedish society is not a good comparison, either.   10.1 Million people.   Single payer health care.    Few population centers.     

Also, a population that isn't encouraged to view government as the enemy.

[rocky_warrior]

But Swedish society is not a good comparison, either.   

Agreed.   Though - and maybe this was your point that I missed - comparing NZ and Sweden long term results/approaches might be interesting.

As it stands today:
NZ: ~1,500 cases, ~20 deaths
SWE: ~19,000 cases, ~2,300 deaths

(understanding Sweden is a little over 2x the size of NZ, and has a slightly higher population density)

[Warriors4ever]

Yes you did try jesmu. And I tried to help you keep it going 😁

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Also, a population that isn't encouraged to view government as the enemy.

Also, a government that doesn't tweet support of re-open protests.

[Lennys Tap]

Also, a government that doesn't tweet support of re-open protests.

Well, since they never closed...

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Well, since they never closed...

Ha, well played Len. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

This is how I know that JayBee has been right all along.  Lenny and Chico's on the same side of an argument.  #endofdays

[WarriorDad]

New Zealand is declaring victory.   Why no deep dive into the how and discussion about what we can learn from them?

New Zealand may be one of the most dissimilar nations in the world.  Hard to use them as a proxy nation of many others.  Seems obvious.

[WarriorDad]

I agree, Rocky.   But Swedish society is not a good comparison, either.   10.1 Million people.   Single payer health care.    Few population centers.     

Swedish population is an excellent comparison against other Scandinavian nations and even some other European nations.

[Pakuni]

Swedish population is an excellent comparison against other Scandinavian nations and even some other European nations.

Sweden is a good comparison to other Scandinavian nations. I'm curious as to which other European nations you believe are comparable.

[Pakuni]

This seems a fair and in-depth look at Sweden's policy. Read it all, if you're interested.

https://qz.com/1842183/sweden-is-taking-a-very-different-approach-to-covid-19/

[Lennys Tap]

This seems a fair and in-depth look at Sweden's policy. Read it all, if you're interested.

https://qz.com/1842183/sweden-is-taking-a-very-different-approach-to-covid-19/

Good information. Thanks.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Not to pull a WarriorDad - but NZ is very isolated even without isolation.  The entire population (both islands 4.8M) is about half the size of Chicago metro population.  Their largest city is smaller than Milwaukee.  Only about 1/4 of the population lives on the south island.

Certainly worth an examination, but I don't think their methods would scale to a place such as the US.  Smaller EU countries maybe - but they have more bordering country problems than NZ.  Hawaii and Alaska might benefit though!

You are forgetting all e Hobbits & Elves & Dwarfs & Orcs.

[buckchuckler]

You are forgetting all e Hobbits & Elves & Dwarfs & Orcs.

Pretty sure Elves would be immune.  That certainly would help their %s.

[WarriorDad]

Sweden is a good comparison to other Scandinavian nations. I'm curious as to which other European nations you believe are comparable.

Based on my travels and knowledge of European history, Finland, which is not part of Scandinavia but is part of Europe.  There are differences, no two countries are exactly the same, but I found them quite similar.  Finland was controlled by Sweden for more than 500 years which is why there are so many cultural similarities.

Now, what does New Zealand compare to?

[MarquetteDano]

Based on my travels and knowledge of European history, Finland, which is not part of Scandinavia but is part of Europe.  There are differences, no two countries are exactly the same, but I found them quite similar.  Finland was controlled by Sweden for more than 500 years which is why there are so many cultural similarities.

Now, what does New Zealand compare to?

As a former Australian resident,  only compares to Australia.  With the Kiwis being slightly more culturally English.