Vaccine/Antibody updates

[MU82]

From the NYT:

Legal experts say that state actions do not override Biden’s order. “Texas has just set itself up for a grand political show, but not a potentially legally sound initiative to stop all vaccine mandates,” James Hodge, the director of the Center for Public Health Law and Policy at Arizona State University, told The Times. That said, for companies wary of vaccine mandates, perhaps because they fear that workers may quit, the Texas order could provide cover to delay an announcement.

Several big companies said they would defy the Texas order, including American Airlines and Southwest Airlines, which are based in the state. Boeing, which has offices in Texas, announced a vaccine mandate yesterday.

Let Abbott try to enforce his illegal order.

It's a pure political play on his part -- he's desperate to keep the Trump base, as he faces primary challenges from his right -- and he doesn't care if it results in illnesses and deaths.

[mu_hilltopper]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/delta-add-200-monthly-health-insurance-charge-unvaccinated-staff-2021-08-25/

The article above from August .. Delta airlines added $200/month to unvaccinated employees' health insurance cost. 

My company has two cost levels of insurance where you qualify for the low cost option by achieving health points (earned by getting a physical, walking, yoga, whatever.)  Many plans, if you're a smoker, you pay more.

It seems that adding a surcharge for higher risk employees makes total sense and would be the preferred path instead of mandating/firing non-vaccinated workers.

A $2400 annual bite would be a huge self-inflicted sting, but OK.

Question .. has anyone seen data or other stories on companies raising insurance premiums for non-vaccinated employees?   (Google failed me.)

[Lennys Tap]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/delta-add-200-monthly-health-insurance-charge-unvaccinated-staff-2021-08-25/

The article above from August .. Delta airlines added $200/month to unvaccinated employees' health insurance cost. 

My company has two cost levels of insurance where you qualify for the low cost option by achieving health points (earned by getting a physical, walking, yoga, whatever.)  Many plans, if you're a smoker, you pay more.

It seems that adding a surcharge for higher risk employees makes total sense and would be the preferred path instead of mandating/firing non-vaccinated workers.

A $2400 annual bite would be a huge self-inflicted sting, but OK.

Question .. has anyone seen data or other stories on companies raising insurance premiums for non-vaccinated employees?   (Google failed me.)

Your solution makes a lot more sense than firing doctors and nurses who have been on the front lines for 20 months.

[warriorchick]

Your solution makes a lot more sense than firing doctors and nurses who have been on the front lines for 20 months.

I doubt that there are many of those that refuse to be vaccinated.  And I wouldn't want to be treated by an unvaccinated medical professional.  At the minimum, that should be disclosed to any patient they come in contact with.

[Lennys Tap]

I doubt that there are many of those that refuse to be vaccinated. 

You’re kidding, right?

[Pakuni]

You’re kidding, right?

An AMA survey way back in June showed that 96 percent of doctors were fully vaccinated. Of the small percent not yet fully vaccinated, 45% planned to in the near future. So, the figure is probably closer to 98 percent today.

[tower912]

You’re kidding, right?

You need better sources.   Well publicized, but a relatively low number.

[MU82]

By any available statistics, almost no doctors have quit and a tiny percentage of nurses have quit due to COVID-19 vaccination requirements.

If I'm a patient in the hospital or a doctor's office or a physical therapy facility, etc, would I want to be treated by an unvaccinated doctor, PA, nurse practitioner, nurse or nursing assistant? Hell effen no! Who would?

The very few doctors and nurses who refuse to accept a proven life-saving vaccine for a highly contagious virus during a global pandemic should band together to form their own medical practices. They could cater exclusively to the unvaccinated. Given how many of the latter there are, those medical professionals could make quite a living.

Of course, lots of their customers would end up dead ... as would some of the medical professionals. But ... at least ... FREEDOM!

[jesmu84]

Your solution makes a lot more sense than firing doctors and nurses who have been on the front lines for 20 months.

Lol.

Healthcare companies see doctors and nurses as nothing more than a walking pair of scrubs. If they could get monkeys to do the job for half the cost, they would.

"Front line heroes" is bullcrap

[Galway Eagle]

Lol.

Healthcare companies see doctors and nurses as nothing more than a walking pair of scrubs. If they could get monkeys to do the job for half the cost, they would.

"Front line heroes" is bullcrap

And how is that different than any for profit career?

[tower912]

'For-profit'?   Teachers, first responders paramedics.... oh, wait, they are already criminally underpaying paramedics.

[Galway Eagle]

'For-profit'?   Teachers, first responders paramedics.... oh, wait, they are already criminally underpaying paramedics.

Teachers? If they could hire a robot they would. First responders? I'd almost guarantee that in enough time we see AI in fire fighting technology, and AI in various aspects of policing causing downsizing in both. Paramedics? Same they've already come out with smart ambulances in certain areas.

Point is at almost any job we are all a walking pair of (insert here).

[jesmu84]

Teachers? If they could hire a robot they would. First responders? I'd almost guarantee that in enough time we see AI in fire fighting technology, and AI in various aspects of policing causing downsizing in both. Paramedics? Same they've already come out with smart ambulances in certain areas.

Point is at almost any job we are all a walking pair of (insert here).

I was just responding to Lenny pointing out how medical professionals have been at the "front lines" and so should be respected more. Healthcare employers couldn't care less about individual doctors and nurses - front line or otherwise. All the PR in the last 18 months has been a joke to those working in the field.

[tower912]

I was just responding to Lenny pointing out how medical professionals have been at the "front lines" and so should be respected more. Healthcare employers couldn't care less about individual doctors and nurses - front line or otherwise. All the PR in the last 18 months has been a joke to those working in the field.
[/quote}

I was extending that notion.   

[Lennys Tap]

An AMA survey way back in June showed that 96 percent of doctors were fully vaccinated. Of the small percent not yet fully vaccinated, 45% planned to in the near future. So, the figure is probably closer to 98 percent today.

And nurses?

[naginiF]

And nurses?

you're not really going to bemoan nurses who don't believe in, or ignoring, medical science losing their jobs are you?

[Lennys Tap]

you're not really going to bemoan nurses who don't believe in, or ignoring, medical science losing their jobs are you?

Simplistic generalization, but why not?

[tower912]

Better get vaccinated.  1.   So you don't get fired.  2.   To lessen the risk of going to the understaffed hospitals.


COVID is responsible for 62% of police officer deaths over the last year and a half.  Head of the Chicago FOP wants his members to fight the vaccine mandate.

So

Much


Dumb.

[naginiF]

Simplistic generalization, but why not?

because a) it's their choice and b) a significant portion of a nurses job is understanding and following medical science - not doing so indicates they are not fit for the position.

[Lennys Tap]

because a) it's their choice and b) a significant portion of a nurses job is understanding and following medical science - not doing so indicates they are not fit for the position.

Our hospitals are very much understaffed right now. If you think it’s wise to put policies in place that exacerbate the problem, so be it. I don’t. Would I prefer that the nurse treating me in the hospital, the fireman saving my burning home or the cop answering my 911 call be vaccinated? Absolutely. But I don’t want my operation postponed, my house burning down or someone answering my 911 call too late because I’m being “protected” from the non vaccinated. They don’t scare me that much.

[Hards Alumni]

Simplistic generalization, but why not?

Because they're objectively unfit for their position.

Don't be stupid.

[Hards Alumni]

Our hospitals are very much understaffed right now. If you think it’s wise to put policies in place that exacerbate the problem, so be it. I don’t. Would I prefer that the nurse treating me in the hospital, the fireman saving my burning home or the cop answering my 911 call be vaccinated? Absolutely. But I don’t want my operation postponed, my house burning down or someone answering my 911 call too late because I’m being “protected” from the non vaccinated. They don’t scare me that much.

You're exaggerating the number of these people who are unvaccinated and are walking away from their professional careers.

It isn't a statistically significant amount.  I promise.  You're consuming media that has created a boogeyman that does not exist.

[reinko]

Our hospitals are very much understaffed right now. If you think it’s wise to put policies in place that exacerbate the problem, so be it. I don’t. Would I prefer that the nurse treating me in the hospital, the fireman saving my burning home or the cop answering my 911 call be vaccinated? Absolutely. But I don’t want my operation postponed, my house burning down or someone answering my 911 call too late because I’m being “protected” from the non vaccinated. They don’t scare me that much.

Are these front line hero’s just too lazy to abide by the testing rules then?  If you don’t get the 💉, then line up every week and get your test.

[jesmu84]

Are these front line hero’s just too lazy to abide by the testing rules then?  If you don’t get the 💉, then line up every week and get your test.

Not always possible. Some hospitals/systems are mandating the vaccine without a testing option.

Contrast to federal mandate that says you can test or vax.

[Lennys Tap]

You're exaggerating the number of these people who are unvaccinated and are walking away from their professional careers.

It isn't a statistically significant amount.  I promise.  You're consuming media that has created a boogeyman that does not exist.

As of August 18, 2021, 27% of healthcare workers were not vaccinated. Almost 2 months later I’m sure that number is lower. But assuming it’s insignificant is just plain stupid.

https://news.northeastern.edu/2021/08/18/many-healthcare-workers-still-havent-gotten-covid-19-vaccines/