Vaccine/Antibody updates

[rocket surgeon]

As of August 18, 2021, 27% of healthcare workers were not vaccinated. Almost 2 months later I'm sure that number is lower. But assuming it's insignificant is just plain stupid.

Let's give hardy the benefit of the doubt and say 10-15%. Can any business, especially healthcare absorb a hit like that?  Tell that to the family in distress. As the ice cream man referred to his nemesis many times as lacking in leadership, kettle black eyna?

[MU82]

So y'all are A-OK with unvaccinated nurses, doctors, nurse practitioners, PAs and nursing assistants treating your loved ones? Cool.

[Lennys Tap]

So y'all are A-OK with unvaccinated nurses, doctors, nurse practitioners, PAs and nursing assistants treating your loved ones? Cool.

Who the F@CK said A-OK? That would be the same as me asking you if you're A-OK with your loved ones lying in a hospital untreated or not being allowed in at all to protect them from masked unvaccinated hospital workers.

Nobody is A-OK with any of this. Don't insult me or yourself with this kind of stuff, Mike.

[tower912]

Simple solution.   Get the vaccine.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Yale New Haven Health System getting rid of the unvaccinated.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nhregister.com/news/amp/Doctor-225-unvaccinated-at-Yale-New-Haven-Health-16525380.php

Doctor: 225 unvaccinated at Yale New Haven Health told they'll lose their jobs Oct. 18
Photo of Ed Stannard
Ed Stannard
Updated: Oct. 11, 2021 5:26 p.m.

NEW HAVEN — A total of 225 employees of the Yale New Haven Health System are expected be terminated on Oct. 18, according to officials.

Dr. Ohm Deshpande, associate chief clinical officer, said Monday those employees have been given written notice they will be suspended until their termination date. If they get vaccinated for COVID-19 before then, they will be able to keep their jobs, he said. The deadline for staff to become vaccinated was Sept. 28, he has said.

An additional 244 employees are in the process of getting their shots and will not be let go if they are completely vaccinated by Oct. 18, Deshpande said. He said 99.21 percent of the health system's 28,638 employees are "fully vaccinated or in the process of getting vaccinated" as of Monday.

"It's pretty close to what we expected ultimately," Deshpande said. "There are a fair number of folks in the environmental services area, the food and nutrition area and then the nursing area" who have the highest numbers of unvaccinated staff, he said.

With an estimated 10,000 nurses "it just sort of stands to reason" that they would account for a larger number of unvaccinated employees, he said.

Deshpande said he did not have a breakdown of medical vs. non-medical staff. "We've from the very beginning considered our environmental services folks, our food and nutrition folks to be health care workers," he said.

He said there have been 712 exemptions or deferrals given out, about two-thirds of them religious and one-third medical.

Deshpande said while "health care workers as a general group are more likely to be vaccinated than the general population," there are still some who have refused to get their shots because of misinformation such as "debunked things around fertility" or "political opinions."

On June 30, Yale New Haven Health, along with other hospital-based health systems in Connecticut, announced the vaccination mandate for all its nearly 30,000 employees.

Yale New Haven Health includes Yale New Haven, Bridgeport and Greenwich hospitals, Lawrence and Memorial Hospital in New London and Westerly Hospital in Rhode Island, as well as the Northeast Medical Group of physicians' practices.

On Sept. 21, there were still 700 employees and casual staff, such as per diem nurses, who had yet to be vaccinated.

"We have been having on-site clinics for several months," Deshpande said. "If people have held out this long and are still not vaccinated, we can get them vaccinated through occupational health."

Deshpande said he did not know how unionized employees were affected by the vaccination mandate, but that "at a high level things have gone very well" with union leaders. Food service workers are unionized at Yale New Haven Hospital's two campuses and there are Teamsters representing other workers at the St. Raphael campus, health system officials have said. Deshpande said unions also represent some employees at Lawrence and Memorial Hospital.

edward.stannard@hearstmediact.com; 203-680-9382

[Uncle Rico]

Let's give hardy the benefit of the doubt and say 10-15%. Can any business, especially healthcare absorb a hit like that?  Tell that to the family in distress. As the ice cream man referred to his nemesis many times as lacking in leadership, kettle black eyna?

4 out 10, only redeemed by ice cream man. 

[Lennys Tap]

Simple solution.   Get the vaccine.

Of course that's the best (utopian) solution. But we don't live in Utopia. "Solutions" end up being very much less than perfect. But if my wife has a massive heart attack and needs the paddles and my choices are an unvaxxed EMT in 3 minutes or a vaxxed one 10 minutes later I know which one I choose.

[Pakuni]

Of course that's the best (utopian) solution. But we don't live in Utopia. "Solutions" end up being very much less than perfect. But if my wife has a massive heart attack and needs the paddles and my choices are an unvaxxed EMT in 3 minutes or a vaxxed one 10 minutes later I know which one I choose.

When would that ever be an actual choice? Do you call 911 and the dispatcher asks "Vaxxed or Unvaxxed?"
What's the point of such a hypothetical?

[MU82]

Who the F@CK said A-OK? That would be the same as me asking you if you're A-OK with your loved ones lying in a hospital untreated or not being allowed in at all to protect them from masked unvaccinated hospital workers.

Nobody is A-OK with any of this. Don't insult me or yourself with this kind of stuff, Mike.

Excellent. Glad you agree 100% that mandates are necessary so that all medical personnel are vaccinated. If they don't comply, they're gone.

Because no American should have to send his or her loved ones to be treated by the unvaccinated.

Have a nice night, Tony.

[🏀]

It's almost as if hospitals wouldn't be overcrowded and/or understaffed if there were a way to get rid of the virus that is filling up hospitals.

Move on to a different boogeyman, Qs.

[The Sultan]

Who the F@CK said A-OK? That would be the same as me asking you if you're A-OK with your loved ones lying in a hospital untreated or not being allowed in at all to protect them from masked unvaccinated hospital workers.

Nobody is A-OK with any of this. Don't insult me or yourself with this kind of stuff, Mike.

Perhaps the health care systems should determine what's best for them. And it seems many are requiring vaccinations. So if they want to fire unvaccinated staff, they should be free to do so.

[Jockey]

Everyone just needs to stop the silliness over vaccine mandates. 12 years ago, my wife was told she had to get a flu shot (or have a doctor's excuse why she couldn't), of she would be fired by the hospital.

This stuff isn't new. The only difference is that a political party has decided to endorse killing people.

Get the vaccine or get fired. You won't be missed a bit.

[Hards Alumni]

As of August 18, 2021, 27% of healthcare workers were not vaccinated. Almost 2 months later I'm sure that number is lower. But assuming it's insignificant is just plain stupid.

https://news.northeastern.edu/2021/08/18/many-healthcare-workers-still-havent-gotten-covid-19-vaccines/

As has been mentioned ad nauseum a lot of these people say they'll quit and then don't.  They're posturing and holding out until the last moment.  No shot they all quit.

[Hards Alumni]

Let's give hardy the benefit of the doubt and say 10-15%. Can any business, especially healthcare absorb a hit like that?  Tell that to the family in distress. As the ice cream man referred to his nemesis many times as lacking in leadership, kettle black eyna?

Let's give old rocks for brains here the benefit of the doubt and say he's got 10-15 brain cells to rub together.  But I'd be giving him far too much credit. 

You and Lenny are creating hypotheticals that don't exist.  Boogeymen of your own creation.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

As has been mentioned ad nauseum a lot of these people say they'll quit and then don't.  They're posturing and holding out until the last moment.  No shot they all quit.

The article on Yale New Haven Health that I posted said with the mandate they got to 99.25% vaccinated and the 200+ holdouts were given one last notice of vaccine or fired by Oct. 18. 

[MU82]

Outstanding New York Times piece about the psychology of the unvaccinated:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/15/opinion/covid-vaccines-unvaccinated.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20211015&instance_id=42917&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=71723&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

It has stats about those quitting due to mandates -- very, very few -- but it also goes into a lot of detail about why various groups of people have been hesitant, from poor people with no health insurance who don't trust the system, to the misinformed, to those who have been conned by Fox News, to science deniers, etc.

[Pakuni]

I found some of the doctors and nurses who won't get vaccinated.
Their numbers are dwindling.

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/dr-steve-beito-62-new-braunfels-tx-podiatrist-anti-vaxx-dead-with-covid

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/natasha-tiner-35-troup-tx-registered-nurse-against-vaxx-for-herself-dead-from-covid

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/amanda-fowler-39-douglas-ga-ems-nurse-religious-lgbt-anti-vaxx-and-died-from-covid

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/brye-carminati-goolsby-45-bowie-tx-registered-nurse-anti-vaxxer-dead-from-covid

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/dianna-rathburn-57-rn-pediatric-homecare-nurse-anti-masker-anti-vaxxer-dead-from-covid

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/theresa-jordan-60-tampa-fl-nurse-handling-covid-cases-anti-vaxxer-died-of-covid

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/byron-webb-54-twin-falls-id-registered-nurse-anti-vaxxer-dead-from-covid

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/dale-trey-stokes-34-tyler-tx-paramedic-unvaccinated-died-from-covid-19-leaves-family-of-4

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/chelsey-rose-30-granite-city-il-registered-nurse-anti-vaxx-died-from-covid

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/jane-treadwell-holston-56-helena-al-nurse-practitioner-prof-anti-vaxx-and-dead-of-covid

[Lennys Tap]

When would that ever be an actual choice? Do you call 911 and the dispatcher asks "Vaxxed or Unvaxxed?"
What's the point of such a hypothetical?

Fewer cops, fewer EMTs amounts to less efficiency, longer waiting times. In life or death situations that's kind of a big deal.

[Lennys Tap]

Everyone just needs to stop the silliness over vaccine mandates. 12 years ago, my wife was told she had to get a flu shot (or have a doctor's excuse why she couldn't), of she would be fired by the hospital.

Get the flu shot or get fired is an actual thing at hospitals? Honestly never heard that.

[jficke13]

Get the flu shot or get fired is an actual thing at hospitals? Honestly never heard that.

Yup. Back before the official mandate there was random chatter at my wife's hospital "they can't make us! grumble grumble FREEDOM," and my wife was like "you dummies have to get a flu shot. They're absolutely going to make you."

[MUBurrow]

Of course that's the best (utopian) solution. But we don't live in Utopia. "Solutions" end up being very much less than perfect. But if my wife has a massive heart attack and needs the paddles and my choices are an unvaxxed EMT in 3 minutes or a vaxxed one 10 minutes later I know which one I choose.

Lenny, I do think that folks are a little too flippant about the consequences of vaccine mandates.  It remains to be seen how it washes out in workforce reduction numbers, but considering these staffs are overworked and understaffed as it is, any reduction isn't nothing.

That being said, the mandates are still worth it to me.  The marginal utility of the workers who will get the vaccine that otherwise wouldn't have, plus knowing that healthcare staffs are entirely vaxxed, offsets the likely workforce reductions based on everything I've seen. Plus there's kind of a philosophical red line on this - a "we aren't going to be the country that entertains anti-science sentiments to the point where we have unvaccinated healthcare workers in the middle of a pandemic" kind of thing. If you don't set that line somewhere and take the pain that comes with enforcing it, I think that creeps and creeps and creeps.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

This is such a manufactured crisis. 

That is one reason I am hopeful more companies step in and stay the course on their mandates (like AA and SW just did).  Frankly it's a great way to give people a way to save face in something they have dug in on or need the push to get over hesitancy.  Zeynep Tufekci wrote an op-ed today on this topic in the times today that did a great job of cutting past the rural/republican headline (which is true by the way) but down into the nuance which is much broader on the unvaccinated and how to reach them. 

[tower912]

Fewer cops, fewer EMTs amounts to less efficiency, longer waiting times. In life or death situations that's kind of a big deal.

The pandemic has brought to light and exacerbated an already bad situation.   Welcome to the bandwagon.

[warriorchick]

Get the flu shot or get fired is an actual thing at hospitals? Honestly never heard that.

Pretty sure it was mandated at Chick Jr's hospital going back quite a way, but no one gave it a second thought until recently.

I know that Marquette always required its nursing students to have all of their vaccinations up to date, including flu shots, before they did any of their clinical rotations.

[jesmu84]

Fewer cops, fewer EMTs amounts to less efficiency, longer waiting times. In life or death situations that's kind of a big deal.

I bet you could more than make up for any workers lost due to vaccine mandates if you paid them more, provided more support staff and reduced extra work hours.

But that kinda talk isn't enough to grab headlines