Vaccine/Antibody updates

[TSmith34, Inc.]

One in 5000 chance of getting breakthrough COVID, maybe up to 1/10,000 depending on the locale, if vaxed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/briefing/risk-breakthrough-infections-delta.html
Adding free link:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/one-5-000-real-chances-183201138.html

Just to be clear, those numbers are "per day" chances. Which makes sense; as awesome as the vaccines have been they aren't 99.98% effective in preventing infections. But, they are amazing at keeping the vaccinated out of the hospital and out of the cemetary.

[4everwarriors]

Sum folks at da pool have moore face coverin's dan ass coverin's, hey?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Fluff, I think what a lot of folks like you and I are trying to do is simply live our lives. I do find it interesting that there seems to be a segment in society that feels the need to comment on our doing that.  No doubt there's a cottage industry out there that profits on the fear.  That fear is probably legitimate for the morons that don't get vaxxed.  This crap can actually kill them.  But for us, nope, at least statistically speaking.  Meaning that if we do end up being a breakthrough, it's gonna cost us a week on our couch. So yeah, we went to Summerfest last weekend.  Living our lives.

I don't know who has the high ground in the race to claim aggrieved status.  This recent circle around the toilet bowl all started by calling out someone wearing a mask in a pool. 

The pandemic not being over yet and the vaccinated being able to and actually taking more risk can happen at the same time.

[MU82]

Fluff, I think what a lot of folks like you and I are trying to do is simply live our lives. I do find it interesting that there seems to be a segment in society that feels the need to comment on our doing that.  No doubt there's a cottage industry out there that profits on the fear.  That fear is probably legitimate for the morons that don't get vaxxed.  This crap can actually kill them.  But for us, nope, at least statistically speaking.  Meaning that if we do end up being a breakthrough, it's gonna cost us a week on our couch. So yeah, we went to Summerfest last weekend.  Living our lives.

I appreciate this, and it similar to how my wife and I are living our lives now.

However, there also is a segment of society that feels the need to belittle those who have lower risk-tolerance levels than you and I do. A little more understanding on both ends might be called for.

That being said, I have little understanding or tolerance for those who don't get the vaccine ... and even less for those in power and those in the extreme-right media who go out of their way to demonize the vaccines. Talk about a cottage industry that profits on fear!

[Pakuni]

Fluff, I think what a lot of folks like you and I are trying to do is simply live our lives. I do find it interesting that there seems to be a segment in society that feels the need to comment on our doing that.  No doubt there's a cottage industry out there that profits on the fear.  That fear is probably legitimate for the morons that don't get vaxxed.  This crap can actually kill them.  But for us, nope, at least statistically speaking.  Meaning that if we do end up being a breakthrough, it's gonna cost us a week on our couch. So yeah, we went to Summerfest last weekend.  Living our lives.

You're taking the necessary precautions, doing what's best for those around you by getting vaccinated and living your life as you see fit.
That's awesome. I'm doing the same. Parties, ballgames, restaurants, vacations, etc. All without a mask unless required by the venue.

Now, if someone you don't intimately know, for reasons you don't know, chooses to take some additional precaution because that makes him or her feel more comfortable - even if they're not the exact same precautions you decide are necessary for you - do you have a problem with that? Does it upset you? Make you feel the need to cast aspersions on or mock that person? Make judgements about that person and their state of mind based on a bunch of assumptions? Point to that person as a shining example of society trapped by fear?
Me, I just live my life and let them live theirs.

[MU82]

Plus, a lot of this stuff is based on personal experiences.

We all are getting to know the statistics: If you are vaccinated, you are unlikely to get COVID-19, and if you do, it is likely to be very mild. Also, if you are a child, although you are more likely to get Covid now than you were pre-delta, it still almost surely will be mild if you do get it.

Now, if a person you know and/or love gets Covid despite being vaccinated and/or despite being a child, and that person gets very ill or even dies, that very likely will shape your perspective.

My wife is somewhat less risk-tolerant than I am when it comes to this virus because she personally has seen a 2-year-old with serious Covid and has personally watched a fellow nurse -- perfectly healthy and vaccinated -- go on a ventilator for 2 weeks and still be messed up weeks later.

Most of us don't advocate for stricter laws against drunk driving ... until somebody we love is killed by a drunk driver.

[MUfan12]

What I learned from these last few pages: We're all really f*cking tired of this and are arguing about the 10% on the margins we disagree on.

[Pakuni]

Three Vermont state troopers resign amid investigation into their involvement in a face vaccine card scheme.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/us/vermont-troopers-fake-covid-vaccine-card.html

[forgetful]

This isn't an attack, cause I always respect your perspective and opinion on this topic, agree or not, but I keep seeing this pop up when people talk masks.  I've been fortunate to travel a bunch in Asia for work.  HK, multiple parts of China, Thailand, Japan, Singapore, Indonesia, etc... and I've never seen this to be the case.  Do you see it more than in the US during non-COVID times? Of course.  But in all my travels, it's still infrequent enough that you do a double take.  One of my trade shows is in HK in the heart of flu/cold season, people traveling from all over Asia to visit, and you won't see more than handful over the tens of thousands of people in and around the show.  It just feels like people use evidence from the SARS epidemic and the masks surrounding that and the years after to make it seem like masks are widespread.

(Granted this isn't talking somewhere like Beijing where smog is literally hazardous to health)

No offense or attack taken. Admittedly, I haven't traveled a lot in Asia, so am going off of what I have seen/read. It would appear that isn't exactly accurate. I appreciate the correction.

I would still argue that her personal actions are not illogical, as it is based on an individuals circumstances.

A mask mandate in such an environment (like the outdoor mandate in Oregon) would be illogical.

One in 5000 chance of getting breakthrough COVID, maybe up to 1/10,000 depending on the locale, if vaxed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/briefing/risk-breakthrough-infections-delta.html
Adding free link:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/one-5-000-real-chances-183201138.html

If you use these numbers to calculate vaccine efficacy that results in an efficacy of around 80%.

I hate that media is using those 1/5,000 or 1/10,000 chance. It is an entirely misleading way of presenting the data and indicating vaccine efficacy. What they should be showing is what the efficacy is for a newly vaccinated person (likely 95% still), and one vaccinated in early Jan/Feb (now around 65%), for an average efficacy of ~80%.

[pbiflyer]

One in 5000 chance of getting breakthrough COVID, maybe up to 1/10,000 depending on the locale, if vaxed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/briefing/risk-breakthrough-infections-delta.html
Adding free link:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/one-5-000-real-chances-183201138.html

Yet as mentioned upstream, we likely all know people that have had break through cases. If your stats were correct, that likely would not be true, knowing people with break through cases would be rare.

I have coworkers, neighbors, and friends all with break through cases. Granted only one ended up in hospitalization (yah science!), but if your numbers were right, I would know an inordinately large percentage of the break through cases.

[jsglow]

You're taking the necessary precautions, doing what's best for those around you by getting vaccinated and living your life as you see fit.
That's awesome. I'm doing the same. Parties, ballgames, restaurants, vacations, etc. All without a mask unless required by the venue.

Now, if someone you don't intimately know, for reasons you don't know, chooses to take some additional precaution because that makes him or her feel more comfortable - even if they're not the exact same precautions you decide are necessary for you - do you have a problem with that? Does it upset you? Make you feel the need to cast aspersions on or mock that person? Make judgements about that person and their state of mind based on a bunch of assumptions? Point to that person as a shining example of society trapped by fear?
Me, I just live my life and let them live theirs.

So I'll use your comment to reply to what 82 and Frenns was alluding to as well.  I'm not really concerned about the extra precautions others are taking.  Their business.  I can tell you that there were folks on the beach in Maui last Spring wearing masks in a 15mph sea breeze.  Not me; no skin off my nose (no pun intended.)

[forgetful]

Yet as mentioned upstream, we likely all know people that have had break through cases. If your stats were correct, that likely would not be true, knowing people with break through cases would be rare.

I have coworkers, neighbors, and friends all with break through cases. Granted only one ended up in hospitalization (yah science!), but if your numbers were right, I would know an inordinately large percentage of the break through cases.

The problem with the statistics as presented is manifold. 1) It uses per day odds. 2) It reports an estimated average daily rate of infections, and then a crudely estimated value for highly vaccinated areas...it does not do he same for weakly vaccinated areas, where the odds are likely closer to 1/2000 or 1/3000.

Right now you have two sides manipulating the presentation of data to push their narrative. Neither is helpful.

That is why I would prefer to simply see reports of vaccine efficacy, and even better emphasize this simple fact.

If we put in a vaccine mandate, in a matter of months we would have less total cases each day, then we are currently seeing deaths per day. In a matter of months, we could reduce the COVID case counts down to a value that tracking them no longer makes any sense at all and it could be lumped in with influenza-like-illnesses in terms of tracking (I'd still argue we need to test for and track variants...much like the flu).

I believe it is a dereliction of duty that our leaders have not instituted a vaccine mandate already (note this can legally be done by governors today if they wanted to).

[Pakuni]

So I'll use your comment to reply to what 82 and Frenns was alluding to as well.  I'm not really concerned about the extra precautions others are taking.  Their business.  I can tell you that there were folks on the beach in Maui last Spring wearing masks in a 15mph sea breeze.  Not me; no skin off my nose (no pun intended.)

We agree. It's their business and doesn't affect us at all.
I just don't understand the need of some here to belittle someone for taking extra precautions, especially when they have no idea what's going on in that person's life that might make those precautions reasonable.

[The Sultan]

I would still argue that her personal actions are not illogical, as it is based on an individuals circumstances.

A mask mandate in such an environment (like the outdoor mandate in Oregon) would be illogical.

That's fine.  I tried to frame my use of illogical with the assumptions that she is vaccinated and doesn't have serious underlying health problems.  If those assumptions aren't in place, her mask wearing would not be illogical.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Saw a new one in Madison today.  Guy on a motorcycle, solo, wearing a helmet with a full faceshield (clear).  So he was protected from bugs and other road debris. 

Also had a covid mask on under the faceshield.  Illogical.

[rocket surgeon]

Saw a new one in Madison today.  Guy on a motorcycle, solo, wearing a helmet with a full faceshield (clear).  So he was protected from bugs and other road debris. 

Also had a covid mask on under the faceshield.  Illogical.

come on zig...duh, you must not ride much-the helmit and face shield help keep the the mask from blowing off

[jesmu84]

Saw a new one in Madison today.  Guy on a motorcycle, solo, wearing a helmet with a full faceshield (clear).  So he was protected from bugs and other road debris. 

Also had a covid mask on under the faceshield.  Illogical.

Is it possible he just forgot to take it off when he first got on the bike, decided it wasn't worth the trouble as he started riding and will wait till he gets to his destination?

I've caught myself with a mask in my car because I leave the hospital with it on and my mind is focused on other things until after a few minutes in the car.

[rocket surgeon]

Is it possible he just forgot to take it off when he first got on the bike, decided it wasn't worth the trouble as he started riding and will wait till he gets to his destination?

I've caught myself with a mask in my car because I leave the hospital with it on and my mind is focused on other things until after a few minutes in the car.

first thing off leaving the operatory-micorscopes, gloves followed by mask all the while my mind is focusing on many other things, like getting my fantasy baseball team ready for tonights games

[jsglow]

Saw a new one in Madison today.  Guy on a motorcycle, solo, wearing a helmet with a full faceshield (clear).  So he was protected from bugs and other road debris. 

Also had a covid mask on under the faceshield.  Illogical.

This probably clarified it for ya Ziggy.

[jesmu84]

first thing off leaving the operatory-micorscopes, gloves followed by mask all the while my mind is focusing on many other things, like getting my fantasy baseball team ready for tonights games

Thanks for the anecdote?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Is it possible he just forgot to take it off when he first got on the bike, decided it wasn't worth the trouble as he started riding and will wait till he gets to his destination?

I've caught myself with a mask in my car because I leave the hospital with it on and my mind is focused on other things until after a few minutes in the car.

It was 745 am. 

I'm not surprised that you are a in car masker.

[Uncle Rico]

first thing off leaving the operatory-micorscopes, gloves followed by mask all the while my mind is focusing on many other things, like getting my fantasy baseball team ready for tonights games

Two commas but otherwise a weak effort.  Sad!  2 of 10

[Jockey]

Fluff, I think what a lot of folks like you and I are trying to do is simply live our lives. I do find it interesting that there seems to be a segment in society that feels the need to comment on our doing that.  No doubt there's a cottage industry out there that profits on the fear.  That fear is probably legitimate for the morons that don't get vaxxed.  This crap can actually kill them.  But for us, nope, at least statistically speaking.  Meaning that if we do end up being a breakthrough, it's gonna cost us a week on our couch. So yeah, we went to Summerfest last weekend.  Living our lives.

I do as you do. Go about my business. Will be going to Summerfest this week. Only wear a mask when required.

There seems to be a big difference between you and Fluff, though. My guess is that you and Chick respect those who choose to wear masks or take more precautions than we do. He would rather criticize them.

We should criticize those who refuse to be vaccinated. They deserve it for their recklessness and the havoc they are spreading. But people taking over precautions for Covid is NOT a problem in this country.

[JWags85]

We should criticize those who refuse to be vaccinated. They deserve it for their recklessness and the havoc they are spreading. But people taking over precautions for Covid is NOT a problem in this country.

Again, at the core of my initial angst or what have you, is not the person taking over precautions, its the messaging, whether from the media, their healthcare professional, the friend group, whatever, that pushes them to worry in such an illogical fashion.  I for one feel like hope and optimism is critical in everyone moving forward and get annoyed at attempts to snuff it out, whether it be for clicks, or fear mongering, or simple paranoia.  I'm not saying be a Pollyanna, but not every week needs to be a new story of how we're doomed or how this random medical professional feels we're still only 5% of the way to getting beyond COVID.

Everyone involved in this discussion is pro-vaccination and nobody is saying they aren't worthy of annoyance and this other group is "just as bad"

[MU82]

After 2 teachers died, masks are now required in a small-town Texas school district -- defying Abbott's idiotic, obviously-political, all-lives-don't-really-matter order (since put on hold by a judge). Would a mask mandate have saved the teachers' lives? We'll never know.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/texas-teachers-died-covid-connally/2021/09/07/2e9165b8-0ffc-11ec-882f-2dd15a067dc4_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F349d0c2%2F6138e30e9d2fda9bb7b949f3%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F47%2F74%2F6138e30e9d2fda9bb7b949f3

Meanwhile ...

Weekly pediatric coronavirus cases surpassed 250,000 for the first time since the start of the pandemic, according to the most recent data published by the American Academy of Pediatrics. Its data shows that more than a quarter of weekly reported coronavirus cases in the United States were among children for the week ending Sept. 2. And while most pediatric cases are not severe, nearly 2,400 children were hospitalized nationwide with covid-19 in the seven days ending Tuesday — more than ever before, according to data tracked by The Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/09/08/covid-delta-variant-live-updates/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F349d0be%2F6138e30e9d2fda9bb7b949f3%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F22%2F74%2F6138e30e9d2fda9bb7b949f3

OK ... so let's talk about "messaging." Was the Washington Post supposed to pretend that both of the above didn't happen -- that 2 teachers didn't die, prompting a school district in deep-red Texas to require masking, and that hundreds of thousands of kids haven't been infected with Covid, including 2400 who got it bad enough that they had to be hospitalized?

I don't think either of these articles is "sensationalized." They are dealing facts, and pretty important ones IMHO. If a reader chooses to freak out or if a reader chooses to ignore the facts, that's on each reader. The Post is doing its job.

I feel bad for the dead teachers' families, now mourning deaths that very possibly were preventable.