Vaccine/Antibody updates

[jesmu84]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-orders-ohio-hospital-treat-covid-patient-ivermectin-n1278267

Have we talked about this yet? Does this ruling set a precedent that patients can dictate their own medical treatment moving forward?

[forgetful]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-orders-ohio-hospital-treat-covid-patient-ivermectin-n1278267

Have we talked about this yet? Does this ruling set a precedent that patients can dictate their own medical treatment moving forward?

Seems like Fred Wagshul should have his medical license suspended.

[Billy Hoyle]

I'm beginning to be pro Ivermectin. Darwin at work.

Patients overdosing on ivermectin backing up rural Oklahoma hospitals, ambulances

https://kfor.com/news/local/patients-overdosing-on-ivermectin-backing-up-rural-oklahoma-hospitals-ambulances/

If only it were true. 

https://fox59.com/news/gunshot-victims-left-to-wait-as-oklahoma-hospitals-overwhelmed-with-horse-dewormer-overdoses-doctor-says/

The media is trying WAAAAY too hard to provide disinformation. I guess the left is tying to Out-Fox Fox. 70% is close to 2%, right?

https://www.sfgate.com/news/amp/Health-Dept-Stop-taking-livestock-medicine-to-16405982.php?__twitter_impression=true

[MU82]

Panthers starting guard John Miller, apparently one of only 2 unvaccinated players on the team (out of 69 on either the active roster or practice squad) will have to sit out 10 days and miss the team's opener after being placed on the Covid list.

But that's cool. It affects only him.

[The Sultan]

I agree with this tweet.

https://twitter.com/MonicaGandhi9/status/1433808689073328128?s=20

[Galway Eagle]

Nice! When was your first round complete?

Back in February. I know it's slightly early but Doc said it was fine since I was taking my mom to get hers anyways. They gave me moderna though which is weird since I had Pfizer... not sure if that's ok or not, hope so.

[cheebs09]

I agree with this tweet.

https://twitter.com/MonicaGandhi9/status/1433808689073328128?s=20

I agree. As a vaxxed person, I am feeling a little uncomfortable without a mask in public places, however I know that's not totally rational. The actual data seems to tell me I'm going overboard, but the messaging seems to only be impacting those who are vaccinated and taking things seriously.

It seems like many unvaccinated people are saying that it doesn't stop you from Covid, so what's the point. I also think many people feel they are healthier than they are, so don't view themselves as high risk.

[Jockey]

Panthers starting guard John Miller, apparently one of only 2 unvaccinated players on the team (out of 69 on either the active roster or practice squad) will have to sit out 10 days and miss the team's opener after being placed on the Covid list.

But that's cool. It affects only him.

They should have cut the ignorant fool. He showed what he thinks about the concept of "team".

[MU82]

I'm pretty comfortable how my wife and I are treating this whole thing.

We are fully vaccinated; my wife will soon get a booster shot, as will I when my turn comes if it's recommended. We obey all mask mandates. When in a crowd, whether indoors or outdoors, we put on our masks. When we go out to eat, which we did twice over the weekend, we prefer outside but will sit inside as long as we're more than a few feet away from other diners. I have resumed umpiring fall ball and I don't wear a mask because it's outside and I'm not in face-to-face situations with others. Etc etc etc. We know the delta variant is out there and there is a very slight chance we could get infected, but we also know we can't be 100% safe from anything, so we will live our lives as normally as possible using readily available, common-sense measures that show we care about our own health and that of our fellow human beings.

If I had a kid in school, I'd want there to be a mask mandate. It's a non-terrible extra layer of protection. Politics is the only reason to object to it IMHO.

[MUBurrow]

Back in February. I know it's slightly early but Doc said it was fine since I was taking my mom to get hers anyways. They gave me moderna though which is weird since I had Pfizer... not sure if that's ok or not, hope so.

I believe some small studies are actually suggesting that mixing vaccines is preferable (not sure how that plays with J&J).  I think Israel or some other country had been studying that a bit to try to get folks fully vaxxed back in the earlier days of vaccine availability. Sorry that I'm not able to look up the study right now but I'm thinking it should be pretty googleable.

[pacearrow02]

I'm pretty comfortable how my wife and I are treating this whole thing.

We are fully vaccinated; my wife will soon get a booster shot, as will I when my turn comes if it's recommended. We obey all mask mandates. When in a crowd, whether indoors or outdoors, we put on our masks. When we go out to eat, which we did twice over the weekend, we prefer outside but will sit inside as long as we're more than a few feet away from other diners. I have resumed umpiring fall ball and I don't wear a mask because it's outside and I'm not in face-to-face situations with others. Etc etc etc. We know the delta variant is out there and there is a very slight chance we could get infected, but we also know we can't be 100% safe from anything, so we will live our lives as normally as possible using readily available, common-sense measures that show we care about our own health and that of our fellow human beings.

If I had a kid in school, I'd want there to be a mask mandate. It's a non-terrible extra layer of protection. Politics is the only reason to object to it IMHO.

Would you support a mask mandate then forever moving forward?  Covid isn't going away, there's plenty of other viruses that pose risk to kids and then the risk for them to bring those bugs home to their immune comprised family members or neighbors that pose an equally/possibly more threatening situation or how long would you have this mask mandate in place?

[Galway Eagle]

I believe some small studies are actually suggesting that mixing vaccines is preferable (not sure how that plays with J&J).  I think Israel or some other country had been studying that a bit to try to get folks fully vaxxed back in the earlier days of vaccine availability. Sorry that I'm not able to look up the study right now but I'm thinking it should be pretty googleable.

That's good to hear. Having a reaction to moderna sucks had none to Pfizer but who cares as long as it works!

[MUBurrow]

Would you support a mask mandate then forever moving forward?  Covid isn't going away, there's plenty of other viruses that pose risk to kids and then the risk for them to bring those bugs home to their immune comprised family members or neighbors that pose an equally/possibly more threatening situation or how long would you have this mask mandate in place?

I don't want to speak for '82, but its gotta be until we get a vaccine approved for kids, right? Provided no variants pop up between now and then that are landing the vaccinated in the hospital, that's the point where I go "Okay, that's enough of all this."

[JWags85]

I don't want to speak for '82, but its gotta be until we get a vaccine approved for kids, right? Provided no variants pop up between now and then that are landing the vaccinated in the hospital, that's the point where I go "Okay, that's enough of all this."

I hope you're right.  I was at our complex pool yesterday. A  woman was sitting in a sun chair fairly separated in a bathing suit reading...while wearing a mask.  She lives a few doors down from our friends in the same building.  She and her husband are empty nesters, both fully vaccinated and healthy (she takes pilates with my wife occasionally), kids and grandkids live out of state, both vaccinated.  Pool filled up as people took advantage of a nice Labor Day.  Id say about 50% of chairs and benches were filled with people.  She abruptly got up and left telling the group next to her "I don't feel comfortable, too many people here, its risky".

Again, anecdotal, but everyone has plenty of stories like that and its not science based.  The truth is, regardless of spiked cases, vaccinated people are suddenly thinking like its mid 2020 again based on things they are hearing.  And I worry thats going to drag on far longer than it should cause COVID Zero is not a thing that will ever happen.

[Jockey]

I hope you're right.  I was at our complex pool yesterday. A  woman was sitting in a sun chair fairly separated in a bathing suit reading...while wearing a mask.  She lives a few doors down from our friends in the same building.  She and her husband are empty nesters, both fully vaccinated and healthy (she takes pilates with my wife occasionally), kids and grandkids live out of state, both vaccinated.  Pool filled up as people took advantage of a nice Labor Day.  Id say about 50% of chairs and benches were filled with people.  She abruptly got up and left telling the group next to her "I don't feel comfortable, too many people here, its risky".

Again, anecdotal, but everyone has plenty of stories like that and its not science based.  The truth is, regardless of spiked cases, vaccinated people are suddenly thinking like its mid 2020 again based on things they are hearing.  And I worry thats going to drag on far longer than it should cause COVID Zero is not a thing that will ever happen.

These people are almost as unreasonable as those who refuse the vaccine.

I am vaccinated, will wear a mask when requested, but will not wear one when I attend Summerfest this week.

[MU82]

Would you support a mask mandate then forever moving forward?  Covid isn't going away, there's plenty of other viruses that pose risk to kids and then the risk for them to bring those bugs home to their immune comprised family members or neighbors that pose an equally/possibly more threatening situation or how long would you have this mask mandate in place?

I could make up something, but for now I'll settle for "I don't know." Because that's the truth.

[MU82]

I hope you're right.  I was at our complex pool yesterday. A  woman was sitting in a sun chair fairly separated in a bathing suit reading...while wearing a mask.  She lives a few doors down from our friends in the same building.  She and her husband are empty nesters, both fully vaccinated and healthy (she takes pilates with my wife occasionally), kids and grandkids live out of state, both vaccinated.  Pool filled up as people took advantage of a nice Labor Day.  Id say about 50% of chairs and benches were filled with people.  She abruptly got up and left telling the group next to her "I don't feel comfortable, too many people here, its risky".

Again, anecdotal, but everyone has plenty of stories like that and its not science based.  The truth is, regardless of spiked cases, vaccinated people are suddenly thinking like its mid 2020 again based on things they are hearing.  And I worry thats going to drag on far longer than it should cause COVID Zero is not a thing that will ever happen.

Yep, anecdotal ... like the no-mask-wearing guy in the sleeveless shirt (with a photo of a gun against an American flag backdrop, of course) who walked right past the "please wear a mask" sign and into my local Publix yesterday. In addition to the business not wanting un-masked people in the store, our county has an indoor mask mandate. The guy strutted around the store, and you could tell he was just begging for a confrontation. No store employee or shopper said anything to him, at least not that I saw. I admit I didn't, either, as I am rather fond of my teeth.

I'd argue that's a lot more infuriating, and potentially more dangerous to others, than an overly cautious lady who got up from your pool for the opposite reason, but I'd agree that neither is helpful.

[JWags85]

Yep, anecdotal ... like the no-mask-wearing guy in the sleeveless shirt (with a photo of a gun against an American flag backdrop, of course) who walked right past the "please wear a mask" sign and into my local Publix yesterday. In addition to the business not wanting un-masked people in the store, our county has an indoor mask mandate. The guy strutted around the store, and you could tell he was just begging for a confrontation. No store employee or shopper said anything to him, at least not that I saw. I admit I didn't, either, as I am rather fond of my teeth.

I'd argue that's a lot more infuriating, and potentially more dangerous to others, than an overly cautious lady who got up from your pool for the opposite reason, but I'd agree that neither is helpful.

Sure, but in response to the post I quoted, the latter is what will still make tough sledding when vaccines are available for all kids.  Much like endemic COVID, anti-vaxx dipshits will always be around.  Just like they are for flu vaccines or MMR for school children. 

People find it harder to ignore, or be convinced of the absurdity outside the bounds of reason or science, those who are being "extra cautious".  And that stokes fear and panic

[tower912]

Mask wearing causes fear and panic?  Holy bizarro world.

[JWags85]

Mask wearing causes fear and panic?  Holy bizarro world.

Way to miss the point.  We all know you think nothing of wearing a mask indefinitely.  Keep preaching.

The messaging surrounding vaccinations and after-risk is flawed.  Thats the point.  Plus saying stuff like "we are right back where we were last March" due to hospitalization or cases numbers regarding unvaccinated people is what freaks people out enough to wear a mask outside.  Or not feel comfortable out in public or in stores, even masked.  It ignores the data on asymptomatic spread by the vaccinated.  It ignores the true percentages and data around breakthrough cases.  Its not "wear a mask to protect others", its messaging that breeds "im wearing a mask cause even though I'm vaccinated I might get Delta" mentalities.

But hey, its just producing excess caution, so who cares right?  Except its not meaningfully improving vaccination numbers and just bolsters the screams of the idiot anti-vaxxers and those who say that masks and vaccines don't actually do anything. 

[tower912]

It does no harm.  As opposed to going unvaccinated, which does cause harm.

To use the car accident analogy made in the NYT article, there are people who drive drunk while texting.    There are people who drive beige Camry's and Corolla's at or below the posted speed limits.   One is annoying to get stuck behind.   One causes damage.   

[Pakuni]

Way to miss the point.  We all know you think nothing of wearing a mask indefinitely.  Keep preaching.

The messaging surrounding vaccinations and after-risk is flawed.  Thats the point.  Plus saying stuff like "we are right back where we were last March" due to hospitalization or cases numbers regarding unvaccinated people is what freaks people out enough to wear a mask outside.  Or not feel comfortable out in public or in stores, even masked.  It ignores the data on asymptomatic spread by the vaccinated.  It ignores the true percentages and data around breakthrough cases.  Its not "wear a mask to protect others", its messaging that breeds "im wearing a mask cause even though I'm vaccinated I might get Delta" mentalities.

But hey, its just producing excess caution, so who cares right?  Except its not meaningfully improving vaccination numbers and just bolsters the screams of the idiot anti-vaxxers and those who say that masks and vaccines don't actually do anything.

Do you know why this particular person was wearing a mask at the pool? How do you know she's healthy? Because she occasionally does pilates with your wife sometimes?

[JWags85]

Do you know why this particular person was wearing a mask at the pool? How do you know she's healthy? Because she occasionally does pilates with your wife sometimes?

Because it's a mid sized apartment community and everyone talks. The point was that she wasn't a random stranger.  My wife was talking to another of the group she spoke to on the way out. She's just simply freaked out about getting Delta COVID.  And she's not alone. 

It does no harm.  As opposed to going unvaccinated, which does cause harm.

To use the car accident analogy made in the NYT article, there are people who drive drunk while texting.    There are people who drive beige Camry's and Corolla's at or below the posted speed limits.   One is annoying to get stuck behind.   One causes damage.   

Until articles every day that make it seem like you're as likely to get into a car wreck going by the speed limit as those drunk driving.  So suddenly half the cars on the road are going under the speed limit and people will be apprehensive about driving the limit for months.

It's conflating two issues.  Nobody is excusing the unvaccinated.  You're a selfish idiot at this point if you're refusing vaccine.  But at the same time, the messaging approach should be "get vaccinated, your risk to yourself and others is MASSIVELY decreased, here's the path to get back to normal" instead of "get vaxxed but fear every variant and here's another break through case. Here's how we're trending similar to 2020, etc...".  We have boosters coming, why are we making people apprehensive and fearful about everything instead of amped knowing their next booster is the next phase towards a semblance or normality

[tower912]

And you are saying an over abundance of caution is as bad as being anti-vax.  To which i say horse feathers.  (Or paste)   One is annoying.  One has far more dire consequences.

[Pakuni]

Because it's a mid sized apartment community and everyone talks. The point was that she wasn't a random stranger.  My wife was talking to another of the group she spoke to on the way out. She's just simply freaked out about getting Delta COVID.  And she's not alone. 

Your point about some of the vaccinated being overly concerned about COVID may be fair. But I would suggest you're making a ton of assumptions about this particular woman to fit your narrative. Unless you're her husband or doctor, I very much doubt you have the intimate knowledge of her health or what's going on in her life to make the kind of judgements about her that you're making. Maybe she has good reason to be freaked about Delta, maybe she doesn't. You don't know.

And as tower has pointed out ... who cares? If she's taking precautions you feel are unnecessary because it makes her feel more comfortable, what's it to you? It affects you not one iota.