Vaccine/Antibody updates

[GooooMarquette]

exactly, it will be interesting the impact at home testing has on things going forward.  How does it impact quarantine for close contact?

I saw a news story that indicated rollout in the US will take some time. According to the story, the test probably won't be widely available in the US until sometime in the spring. By then, a pretty good percentage of folks who want a vaccine will have had a chance to get one. And the people who have chosen not to get one probably don't care much about their test result....

So yeah - it might impact numbers and quarantining a bit, but not nearly as much as if you could buy it at Walgreens today.

[The Sultan]

I feel for ya, Tower. My parents apparently get their medical news from right-wing Catholic sources who ran with the "made with real aborted fetus!" story about the vaccine, and now they refuse to take it.

Oh, and dad's a immunocompromised transplant recipient.

Show this to your mom.

https://twitter.com/CatholicRGV/status/1338995144654123010?s=20

[MUBurrow]

So, does anyone have any concerns about long-term safety of this vaccine? Either version?

Actually I am a little, yeah.  Probably more out of suspicious predisposition than anything.  But this virus is ravaging the planet, and the only way to stop it will be for everyone to get this vaccine.  So I just don't think my vague distrust of pharma and our political instututions is a valid reason to not roll up my sleeve.

[GooooMarquette]

So, does anyone have any concerns about long-term safety of this vaccine? Either version?

I always have concerns when I take something new, and these vaccines are no different.

But given the huge risks of Covid (even for people who survive), it's a chance I am more than willing to take.

[BM1090]

Another dumb question. Should I expect my healthcare to provider to contact me when a vaccine is available to me? Or should I reach out to them to let them know I'd be interested after it was sufficiently offered to higher-risk groups?

[jesmu84]

Found this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/kdm82i/askscience_ama_series_got_questions_about/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Good answers here. Generally, the answer on long term safety/side effects is theorized as minimal, but we just don't know.

I am more likely to seek out the Moderna version just based on their safety monitoring during trials

[rocky_warrior]

Another dumb question. Should I expect my healthcare to provider to contact me when a vaccine is available to me? Or should I reach out to them to let them know I'd be interested after it was sufficiently offered to higher-risk groups?

Was chatting about that with my wife this AM.  It's easy to tell hospital workers and long term senior facilities when their vaccines are ready, but I don't think states have figured out how to notify the general public yet (and keep it orderly). 

I'm imagining "Last names beginning with G can begin to go on <day>".  But who knows.  This is going to be an adventure in tracking which doses are "first" and "second" and "whoops, we were supposed to save that case for second doses???". 

[wadesworld]

Was chatting about that with my wife this AM.  It's easy to tell hospital workers and long term senior facilities when their vaccines are ready, but I don't think states have figured out how to notify the general public yet (and keep it orderly). 

I'm imagining "Last names beginning with G can begin to go on <day>".  But who knows.  This is going to be an adventure in tracking which doses are "first" and "second" and "whoops, we were supposed to save that case for second doses???".

That, plus not everyone who's "at risk" is in a long term care facility.

[Warrior2008]

Was chatting about that with my wife this AM.  It's easy to tell hospital workers and long term senior facilities when their vaccines are ready, but I don't think states have figured out how to notify the general public yet (and keep it orderly). 

I'm imagining "Last names beginning with G can begin to go on <day>".  But who knows.  This is going to be an adventure in tracking which doses are "first" and "second" and "whoops, we were supposed to save that case for second doses???".

Using Wisconsin as an example and listening to the WI DHS discuss this today on their teleconference, the priority has been rightly placed on healthcare workers with daily direct covid exposure and nursing homes.  From what I can tell, those groups seem to have a somewhat clear plan over the course of the next month or two.  After that, the rest of the state's 1a group is basically the entirety of the healthcare field from doctors, to dentists, to PTs, to medical transport.  Its roughly 400k people and as of today, there doesn't seem to be a clear plan for vaccinating this group.  That's not be alarmist, but depending on how this group has their vaccines delivered should tell the public what to expect on how it will have its vaccines administered.

[Warriors4ever]

Lake County in Illinois has a registration program of some sort, MU alum Steve Bertrand mentioned it I think yesterday on the radio.

[GooooMarquette]

Found this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/kdm82i/askscience_ama_series_got_questions_about/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Good answers here. Generally, the answer on long term safety/side effects is theorized as minimal, but we just don't know.

I am more likely to seek out the Moderna version just based on their safety monitoring during trials

What safety monitoring information are you referring to? Most of the information I have seen indicates that side effects are slightly more common and serious with the Moderna vaccine:

https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-moderna-covid-19-vaccines-comparison-how-the-shots-compare-2020-12

Pfizer: Compared to Moderna's shot, there were fewer reports of pain, fatigue, and headaches in Pfizer's vaccine trials. The most common side effects were injection site pain (84%), fatigue (63%), and headache (55%). Severe side effects after the second dose happened with less frequency than Moderna's trial, with the highest rates among volunteers under 55 years old: 5% recorded severe fatigue, 3% had severe headaches, 2% had severe chills, and 2% had new or worsened muscle pain.

Moderna: More than nine in 10 people registered some level of side effects, with most being mild or moderate. The most common reactions were injection site pain (92%), fatigue (69%), headache (63%), and muscle pain (60%).  Younger participants recorded more side effects. Among volunteers ages 18-64, nearly 1 in 5 had a severe reaction after the second booster dose.

[jesmu84]

What safety monitoring information are you referring to? Most of the information I have seen indicates that side effects are slightly more common and serious with the Moderna vaccine:

https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-moderna-covid-19-vaccines-comparison-how-the-shots-compare-2020-12

Pfizer: Compared to Moderna's shot, there were fewer reports of pain, fatigue, and headaches in Pfizer's vaccine trials. The most common side effects were injection site pain (84%), fatigue (63%), and headache (55%). Severe side effects after the second dose happened with less frequency than Moderna's trial, with the highest rates among volunteers under 55 years old: 5% recorded severe fatigue, 3% had severe headaches, 2% had severe chills, and 2% had new or worsened muscle pain.

Moderna: More than nine in 10 people registered some level of side effects, with most being mild or moderate. The most common reactions were injection site pain (92%), fatigue (69%), headache (63%), and muscle pain (60%).  Younger participants recorded more side effects. Among volunteers ages 18-64, nearly 1 in 5 had a severe reaction after the second booster dose.

This is from the reddit thread:

They are similar in the technology of mRNA for S protein production as the immunogen. They differ in the amount required of their formulation and in the temperature for storage. Moderna had more of a range of people in the study and followed them more closely from the time of enrollment. Pfizer had participants keep an e-diary and to self-report if they had symptoms.

[warriorchick]

Chick Jr just texted me that since it has been fewer than 90 days since she contracted Covid-19, she is ineligible to receive the vaccination at her hospital.

She is okay with that; she thinks that folks that have no antibodies at all should go ahead of her.

[rocky_warrior]

"she is ineligible to receive the vaccination at her hospital"

I assume that means she is currently ineligible to receive it with the supplies the have, but will still get one before most of us.

[tower912]

Chick Jr just texted me that since it has been fewer than 90 days since she contracted Covid-19, she is ineligible to receive the vaccination at her hospital.

She is okay with that; she thinks that folks that have no antibodies at all should go ahead of her.

I have the option, but I am going to go to the back of the line.

[GooooMarquette]

This is from the reddit thread:

Perhaps I missed it, but I still don't see where it says that Moderna's vaccine has fewer side effects. All I see is that they monitored them differently. But having been involved with the oversight clinical trials for a couple of decades, both methods are very common and widely accepted and I don't necessarily see one as "better" or "worse" than the other.

[warriorchick]

"she is ineligible to receive the vaccination at her hospital"

I assume that means she is currently ineligible to receive it with the supplies the have, but will still get one before most of us.

I assume so.  She will be 90 days out from her diagnosis in late February.

[rocky_warrior]

I assume so.  She will be 90 days out from her diagnosis in late February.

Hah, I only interpret the 90 days as a line in the sand in terms of determining eligibility - not that she has to wait 90 days.  More like she'll be in the tier of hospital workers that includes those with possible antibodies already (whenever that is).  But keep us updated - it's interesting (to me) to follow the vaccine rollout.

[forgetful]

I assume so.  She will be 90 days out from her diagnosis in late February.

I don't believe there is safety data on people recently infected with COVID. So the guidance on vaccine states that those recently infected should wait.

I know I had heard previously at least 1 month post recovery, maybe it is actually 90 days.

[jesmu84]

Perhaps I missed it, but I still don't see where it says that Moderna's vaccine has fewer side effects. All I see is that they monitored them differently. But having been involved with the oversight clinical trials for a couple of decades, both methods are very common and widely accepted and I don't necessarily see one as "better" or "worse" than the other.

You asked me to clarify what I initially said with regards to safety monitoring.

I never said anything about the % or severity of side effects

[GooooMarquette]

You asked me to clarify what I initially said with regards to safety monitoring.

I never said anything about the % or severity of side effects

So even though there is a higher incidence of side effects, you want their vaccine because they used a different process?

Just trying to understand.

[Jockey]

trump already screwing up the vaccine. Should we be surprised?


Millions of doses of the COVID-19 vaccine are languishing in warehouses awaiting shipment instructions from the Trump administration — even as states are clamoring for them — vaccine manufacturer Pzifer said in a statement Thursday.

The startling bottleneck is occurring as America is breaking daily COVID-19 death tolls. The U.S. lost more people on Wednesday alone (3,611) than the number of people who died on 9/11.

Officials in several states said they were told Wednesday that their second shipments of Pfizer-BioNTech's vaccine next week has been mysteriously reduced, CNN reported. That triggered fears by states that the Trump administration may be incapable of hitting the target of delivering enough vaccine doses for 20 million injections by the end of the year. A source told The Washington Post that Pfizer executives were "baffled" that the Trump administration wasn't immediately shipping out all of the vaccine.

Pfizer defended itself amid the rising fears about vaccine delivery, noting that it has no production problems — and has doses ready to go.

"This week, we successfully shipped all 2.9 million doses that we were asked to ship by the U.S. Government to the locations specified by them," Pzifer said in its statement. "We have millions more doses sitting in our warehouse but, as of now, we have not received any shipment instructions for additional doses," the company added.

[MU82]

Pence gets vaccine.

It only took 9 months for one member of the Trump Administration to finally be a decent role model one time regarding COVID-19.

Now ... resume planning the Super-Spreader Xmas parties!

[Hards Alumni]

Pence gets vaccine.

It only took 9 months for one member of the Trump Administration to finally be a decent role model one time regarding COVID-19.

Now ... resume planning the Super-Spreader Xmas parties!

To be fair, Pence is about the only person in the administration who doesn't have antibodies, and will need the vaccine. 

[tower912]

Pence wasn't listening to Tucker Carlson, who told his viewing audience to not trust the vaccines.