collapse

* Recent Posts

Badger Hate Week 2021 by Goose
[Today at 08:05:24 AM]


Former MU players still in college thread by WarriorFan
[Today at 07:52:15 AM]


MU vs. UW-Madison Roll Call by fjm
[Today at 07:31:56 AM]


Trypto-phantom menace by Newsdreams
[Today at 06:58:32 AM]


Weasel/Rodent Analysis?? by brewcity77
[November 28, 2021, 11:21:13 PM]


SOTG NIU by TAMU Eagle
[November 28, 2021, 11:17:14 PM]


NM by forgetful
[November 28, 2021, 10:19:11 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!


Author Topic: Vaccine/Antibody updates  (Read 166453 times)

ZiggysFryBoy

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4586
  • MEDITERRANEAN TACOS!
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3100 on: July 23, 2021, 12:10:20 AM »
Uh, do you honestly think that everyone who is turning up at the hospital has insurance?

Obamacare shoulda fixed that, no?

Hards_Alumni

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5304
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3101 on: July 23, 2021, 05:58:50 AM »
Obamacare shoulda fixed that, no?

Nope.  There is no law that says you have to carry health insurance.  Just that it is available.

But you know this.

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2899
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3102 on: July 23, 2021, 07:21:28 AM »
Nope.  There is no law that says you have to carry health insurance.  Just that it is available.

But you know this.

Actually the law still mandates that you get health insurance, but the 2017 tax bill eliminated any tax penalties for not having it.  Supreme Court just upheld it last month.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17096
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3103 on: July 23, 2021, 07:49:51 AM »
The opening paragraphs of NYT's David Leonhardt's latest piece on vaccines:

Vaccine mandates are controversial. They’re also effective.

++ Before Houston Methodist became one of the first hospital systems in the U.S. to mandate Covid-19 vaccines, about 85 percent of its employees were vaccinated. After the mandate, the share rose to about 98 percent, with the remaining 2 percent receiving exemptions for medical or religious reasons, Bloomberg’s Carey Goldberg reported. Only about 0.6 percent of employees quit or were fired.
++ Schools — including Indiana University and many private colleges — that require students and workers to get vaccinated have reported extremely high uptake.
++ A recent Kaiser Family Foundation survey of Americans who had been opposed to getting vaccinated and later changed their minds found that mandates — or restrictions on the unvaccinated — were one common reason. One 51-year-old man told Kaiser that he began to feel as if he had “limited options without it.”
++ The French government will soon require that people show proof of vaccination or a recent negative test to eat at a restaurant, attend a movie or participate in many other activities. After President Emmanuel Macron announced the policy last week, the number of vaccine appointments surged. Italy announced a similar policy yesterday, The Times’s Marc Santora explains.

It’s true that these mandates often generate intense criticism. In France, more than 100,000 people marched to protest Macron’s policy. In the U.S., critics sued, unsuccessfully so far, to stop Indiana University’s mandate. Some Republican politicians have also tried to stop mandates, including Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida and Gov. Mike DeWine of Ohio.

The mandates are also not 100 percent effective. Some people will receive exemptions, as was the case at Houston Methodist. A small number may forge vaccine records. And some vaccinated people will still contract mild versions of Covid, through so-called breakthrough infections.

But even with the opposition and the exceptions, mandates can play a major role in reducing the spread of Covid and saving lives. That’s especially true now that the Delta variant is fueling a rise in cases. “The takeaway message remains, if you’re vaccinated, you are protected,” Dr. Céline Gounder, an infectious disease specialist, told our colleague Apoorva Mandavilli. “You are not going to end up with severe disease, hospitalization or death.”
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Warriors4ever

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3104 on: July 23, 2021, 10:23:01 AM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-hospitalized-covid-19-told-160432588.html

Guy hospitalized with Covid would rather do that than be vaccinated.

reinko

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2696
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3105 on: July 23, 2021, 04:34:06 PM »
I’m not surprised Dak sounds like a complete idiot, always struck me as not the sharpest pencil in the drawer.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17096
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3106 on: July 23, 2021, 08:09:19 PM »
“I’m not saying whether or not I’m vaccinated “ = “I’m a dope who isn’t vaccinated.”

“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4252
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3107 on: July 23, 2021, 09:48:08 PM »
One of my former students, now an ICU doc in a conservative state has been adamant about people getting vaccinated. They are getting slammed in the ICU again, but this time it is different. The vast majority of ICU patients, many dying, are young and otherwise healthy.

This isn't over, and its hitting a different population hard now.

For those that are vaccinated, if you get infected you can pass it on to individuals that are young and can't get the vaccine yet. You infecting them can put them in the ICU, no matter what their age.

Its DJOver

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2396
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3108 on: July 23, 2021, 09:54:05 PM »
One of my former students, now an ICU doc in a conservative state has been adamant about people getting vaccinated. They are getting slammed in the ICU again, but this time it is different. The vast majority of ICU patients, many dying, are young and otherwise healthy.

This isn't over, and its hitting a different population hard now.

For those that are vaccinated, if you get infected you can pass it on to individuals that are young and can't get the vaccine yet. You infecting them can put them in the ICU, no matter what their age.

As someone who is vaccinated, and who is in the age group that seems to be more susceptible lately, would you recommend getting tested on a consistent basis, because TBH I haven't been tested since I got my second dose (pfizer, first dose March, second early April, if it matters).

Fluffy Blue Monster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6373
  • Send it in...medium-sized fella!!
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3109 on: July 24, 2021, 06:24:31 AM »
As someone who is vaccinated, and who is in the age group that seems to be more susceptible lately, would you recommend getting tested on a consistent basis, because TBH I haven't been tested since I got my second dose (pfizer, first dose March, second early April, if it matters).


Only if symptomatic.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4252
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3110 on: July 24, 2021, 08:37:51 AM »

Only if symptomatic.

I agree with this.

The only thing that I would add, is that with where things currently are with Delta, if you are regularly around people who are unvaccinated (e.g. Children), it was be courteous/smart to mask if you are in crowded areas.

Also, might be time to start canceling trips out to the bar, if you are a bar goer.

jsglow

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7378
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3111 on: July 24, 2021, 09:01:19 AM »
I personally think what we're seeing is the impact the unvaccinated are having when they foolishly adopt the protocols appropriate for the 'vaccinated only' crowd.  It's a classic case of having their cake and eating it too.  And now they are paying the price.

I've certainly not followed the literature closely but I do think I understand that this new Delta is more contagious but likely less deadly, the latter possibly at least partially due to lower rates simply associated with being young, healthy, and able to fight it off.  I guess we're back to everyone eventually getting immunity one way or the other.  I know the decision I made.

I was telling chick the other day that I see parallels to the emerald ask borer 'pandemic'.  Remember how 'don't transport firewood' was going to save the trees?  Yeah, that worked.  Like for a few years.  Look at all the dead timber now as you drive.

Get the damn shot and save your family a lot of anguish.     

Warriors4ever

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3112 on: July 24, 2021, 12:41:25 PM »
Australia does a lot of contact tracing. They are very sure one person got infected walking past another person in a mall. Another older person got it who was sitting in front of a cafe where the limo driver who picked it up transporting an international flight crew was eating - he is the probable source of the current community outbreak.
That’s how contagious Delta appears to be.

MUDPT

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3113 on: July 24, 2021, 12:58:38 PM »

Only if symptomatic.

Yes and also if you have a known exposure: inside, unmasked, close proximity for a long periods of time.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17096
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3114 on: July 24, 2021, 01:53:06 PM »
One of my former students, now an ICU doc in a conservative state has been adamant about people getting vaccinated. They are getting slammed in the ICU again, but this time it is different. The vast majority of ICU patients, many dying, are young and otherwise healthy.

This isn't over, and its hitting a different population hard now.

For those that are vaccinated, if you get infected you can pass it on to individuals that are young and can't get the vaccine yet. You infecting them can put them in the ICU, no matter what their age.

If you discuss the first-hand knowledge that medical personnel have, and accompany that with all of the associated facts, some will accuse you of fearmongering.

If you say "this isn't over," you will be met immediately with "yeah, but only for the unvaccinated." Because unvaccinated kids -- like the 8-year-old currently in my wife's ICU because her unvaccinated relatives infected her -- getting the virus apparently is not yet common enough for us to really care.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

cheebs09

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3382
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3115 on: July 24, 2021, 01:59:02 PM »
If you discuss the first-hand knowledge that medical personnel have, and accompany that with all of the associated facts, some will accuse you of fearmongering.

If you say "this isn't over," you will be met immediately with "yeah, but only for the unvaccinated." Because unvaccinated kids -- like the 8-year-old currently in my wife's ICU because her unvaccinated relatives infected her -- getting the virus apparently is not yet common enough for us to really care.

I think those that say it’s over have added the caveat that it’s over for those that are vaccinated.

As someone with an infant, I don’t view it as over for me. We still try to eat outdoors and only hang out with vaccinated people when she is with us. However, when she’s not with us, we feel pretty comfortable going to restaurants and doing normal things we’d do before Covid. Also, I believe there’s some research showing those who are vaccinated and breast feeding can pass on some antibodies, so we hope that is the case as well.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17096
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3116 on: July 24, 2021, 02:06:56 PM »
I think those that say it’s over have added the caveat that it’s over for those that are vaccinated.

As someone with an infant, I don’t view it as over for me. We still try to eat outdoors and only hang out with vaccinated people when she is with us. However, when she’s not with us, we feel pretty comfortable going to restaurants and doing normal things we’d do before Covid. Also, I believe there’s some research showing those who are vaccinated and breast feeding can pass on some antibodies, so we hope that is the case as well.

Yes, they use that caveat, but don't add the caveat to the caveat -- that millions of unvaccinated Americans haven't made the choice for themselves. Either they are too young to get vaccinated yet or they are old enough (12-17) but their parents won't let them get it. Or they are adults with mental disabilities whose parents or caregivers won't help them get it.

IMHO, it's not fair to lump these innocent victims in with the selfish, idiotic adults in their lives.

I appreciate how responsible you are with your daughter, and I wish your family great health and happiness.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Fluffy Blue Monster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6373
  • Send it in...medium-sized fella!!
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3117 on: July 24, 2021, 03:17:07 PM »
Yes and also if you have a known exposure: inside, unmasked, close proximity for a long periods of time.

Actually known exposure if vaccinated isn’t much of a concern.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

MUDPT

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3118 on: July 24, 2021, 03:49:11 PM »
Actually known exposure if vaccinated isn’t much of a concern.

Define concern. As a medical professional in Covid positive rooms every week, with unvaccinated children at home, with evidence of reduced transmission of vaccinated (not 100%), I’m still concerned.

Fluffy Blue Monster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6373
  • Send it in...medium-sized fella!!
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3119 on: July 24, 2021, 05:54:51 PM »
Define concern. As a medical professional in Covid positive rooms every week, with unvaccinated children at home, with evidence of reduced transmission of vaccinated (not 100%), I’m still concerned.

Follow the science. You shouldn’t be.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Frenns Liquor Depot

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2641
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3120 on: July 24, 2021, 06:32:37 PM »
I've certainly not followed the literature closely but I do think I understand that this new Delta is more contagious but likely less deadly, the latter possibly at least partially due to lower rates simply associated with being young, healthy, and able to fight it off. 

I don’t think your hypothesis has anything to do with delta being more or less deadly—rather the vaccinated status of vulnerable and those likely getting impacted.   

pacearrow02

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3121 on: July 24, 2021, 10:10:19 PM »
I agree with this.

The only thing that I would add, is that with where things currently are with Delta, if you are regularly around people who are unvaccinated (e.g. Children), it was be courteous/smart to mask if you are in crowded areas.

Also, might be time to start canceling trips out to the bar, if you are a bar goer.

What about dining out, would that still be safe to do? Movie theaters? What would you be comfortable doing indoors right now?  Being that Covid is airborne and not only transmitted via respiratory droplets (singing and screaming in a bar) wondering why you picked out bars specifically?

MUDPT

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3122 on: July 24, 2021, 10:30:36 PM »
Follow the science. You shouldn’t be.

Delta has much higher viral loads and a shorter incubation period.  Vaccines are also less effective at preventing mild symptoms.  If you find yourself in the pretty specific situation that I mentioned and are at risk of infecting an unvaccinated person, you absolutely should test.  Just because you are "asymptomatic" today, doesn't mean you won't be tomorrow and could be out spreading the virus to unvaccinated people. 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 05:36:50 AM by MUDPT »

pacearrow02

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3123 on: July 24, 2021, 10:56:56 PM »
https://mobile.twitter.com/MrsT106/status/1418978938928369667

Wait?? So the PCR tests being run up til this point couldn’t differentiate between the flu and Covid?

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17096
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3124 on: July 25, 2021, 07:38:58 AM »
What about dining out, would that still be safe to do? Movie theaters? What would you be comfortable doing indoors right now?  Being that Covid is airborne and not only transmitted via respiratory droplets (singing and screaming in a bar) wondering why you picked out bars specifically?

I can't speak for forgetful, but the states that made bars among the last to reopen during the pre-Delta COVID-19 waves made the argument that bars are uniquely positioned to spread the virus.

Lots of people in cramped quarters, often speaking loudly or even yelling right into each others' faces because bars tend to be loud environments (music, multiple conversations, dancing, hookup attempts, general din). As the night goes on, people get more drunk. So more yelling, lowered inhibitions, etc. The latter is why as bars gradually were allowed to reopen, they faced mandatory closing times like 10 or 11 pm.

The above is also why some states allowed breweries with taprooms to be open while not letting bars reopen. Some saw this as hypocritical, but patrons at taprooms tend to exhibit significantly different behaviors than those at bars/clubs.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

 

feedback