Wisconsin

[Jockey]

The wheels are officially falling off in Wisconsin...3,747 new cases today, breaking the previous high by about 500.

Here's a hint why. According to a September Marquette poll, only 21% are very concerned about COVID-19.

[Hards Alumni]

Or just say, "I am going to walk over to the Assembly at 8:00 AM tomorrow morning so we can begin negotiations because it is beyond time for us to act,"  and then march across the Capitol to the Speaker's office.

Or whatever.  Be more demonstrative.

But instead he just does everything virtually, reading from prepared remarks, and comes off as not willing to fight.  For a guy who isn't exactly "exciting," his actions are just reinforcing what all his critics say about him.

Been saying this for months.  It is the main problem with technocrats, and the democratic party.  They suck so much ass at messaging.

[pacearrow02]

Been saying this for months.  It is the main problem with technocrats, and the democratic party.  They suck so much ass at messaging.

Is it the messaging or the message that sucks so much ass?

[The Sultan]

Is it the messaging or the message that sucks so much ass?

You mean the "messaging" that we need an actual plan to mitigate our actions for this to be controlled?

Anyone who thinks that message "sucks so much ass" should just look around and see why Wisconsin is in such bad shape.  That's the result.

[pacearrow02]

You mean the "messaging" that we need an actual plan to mitigate our actions for this to be controlled?

Anyone who thinks that message "sucks so much ass" should just look around and see why Wisconsin is in such bad shape.  That's the result.

I was referring more to the message not related to the pandemic and historically speaking.

What else is Evers and the legislation supposed to do?  Aside from the mask mandate and imposing another lockdown which I don't think the majority of folks here support one can be done from the state level?

Schools being opened or closed is/should be a local decision along with business restrictions imo. 

Honestly interested in others opinions to what we should be doing.  You look globally at all the different approaches and non of them seemed to work any better then the others.  To me it just seems unfortunately it's our turn to grind out this recent spike.

[The Sultan]

I was referring more to the message not related to the pandemic and historically speaking.

What else is Evers and the legislation supposed to do?  Aside from the mask mandate and imposing another lockdown which I don't think the majority of folks here support one can be done from the state level?

Schools being opened or closed is/should be a local decision along with business restrictions imo. 

Honestly interested in others opinions to what we should be doing.  You look globally at all the different approaches and non of them seemed to work any better then the others.  To me it just seems unfortunately it's our turn to grind out this recent spike.

No the business decisions shouldn't be local.  That's the problem.  People move.

[The Sultan]

Seriously, anyone who spouts the line "what are they supposed to do," should just look around at what other states and countries are doing.

I know I shouldn't be surprised, but how can people be this dense???

[Hards Alumni]

Is it the messaging or the message that sucks so much ass?

Messaging, stop being so simple minded.  This is a center-left country controlled by center-right gerrymandered districts.  It is also a lot more difficult for Dems to convince a MAJORITY of Americans to agree on policy when you have to appeal to such a wide base.  Republicans win when they depress the vote enough, or Democrats can't unify behind a plan.  Most Republicans are one or two issue voters (Abortion and either guns or taxes).  Violate one and you're out.  Democrats have to constantly toe the line over a wide range of topics, which naturally makes messaging more difficult.  But simply because it is difficult doesn't mean it is impossible.  They're just bad at unification and messaging.  Generally, because they're afraid to offend someone in their base... or worse, a potential independent voter.  It's why Biden and Harris can't say they'll stop fracking.  They've got the numbers saying that they'll lose independents by saying that it should be banned.  But they KNOW that the environmentalists of the party hate fracking... but what choice do they have?  They aren't single issue voters, and the Dems want the Independents. 

I apologize in advance for this being somewhat off topic, but hey, Pace took us here.

Evers is a terrible leader.  He is awful at messaging, but wants to do the right thing. 

[pacearrow02]

Seriously, anyone who spouts the line "what are they supposed to do," should just look around at what other states and countries are doing.

I know I shouldn't be surprised, but how can people be this dense???

I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out.  What are the top 2-3 things other states are doing that we aren't doing? 

[MUDPT]

I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out.  What are the top 2-3 things other states are doing that we aren't doing? 

Japan's 3 C's.

[pacearrow02]

Messaging, stop being so simple minded.  This is a center-left country controlled by center-right gerrymandered districts.  It is also a lot more difficult for Dems to convince a MAJORITY of Americans to agree on policy when you have to appeal to such a wide base.  Republicans win when they depress the vote enough, or Democrats can't unify behind a plan.  Most Republicans are one or two issue voters (Abortion and either guns or taxes).  Violate one and you're out.  Democrats have to constantly toe the line over a wide range of topics, which naturally makes messaging more difficult.  But simply because it is difficult doesn't mean it is impossible.  They're just bad at unification and messaging.  Generally, because they're afraid to offend someone in their base... or worse, a potential independent voter.  It's why Biden and Harris can't say they'll stop fracking.  They've got the numbers saying that they'll lose independents by saying that it should be banned.  But they KNOW that the environmentalists of the party hate fracking... but what choice do they have?  They aren't single issue voters, and the Dems want the Independents. 

I apologize in advance for this being somewhat off topic, but hey, Pace took us here.

Evers is a terrible leader.  He is awful at messaging, but wants to do the right thing.

1) Way to touch on all the talking points of voter suppression, gerrymandering, blah blah blah

2) If Republicans were 1-2 issue voters it would seem pretty easy for the Democratic Party to shift their stance on abortion, guns, taxes to win over those single issue voters while keeping their democrat base and then run the whole damn country.  Or do they not because democrat voters are also 1-2 issue voters?  Or maybe, just maybe, voters from both sides look at the total package of ideas/values of a candidate and make their decision from there.

[pacearrow02]

Japan's 3 C's.

Wasn't familiar with what Japan 3 C's meant but just read a bit about it.  Love it!!

Government didn't shut anything down just encouraged folks to avoid crowded spaces, closed places, and close contact settings.

So the same messaging state and federal governments have been saying here they were just more disciplined? 

Also came across some people saying they weren't doing much testing so they don't think they're giving an accurate picture of how bad it may or may not have gotten.

[Galway Eagle]

1) Way to touch on all the talking points of voter suppression, gerrymandering, blah blah blah

2) If Republicans were 1-2 issue voters it would seem pretty easy for the Democratic Party to shift their stance on abortion, guns, taxes to win over those single issue voters while keeping their democrat base and then run the whole damn country.  Or do they not because democrat voters are also 1-2 issue voters?  Or maybe, just maybe, voters from both sides look at the total package of ideas/values of a candidate and make their decision from there.

As someone who worked on the Tammy Baldwin Campaign, volunteered for the 08 Obama campaign, and was a field director for two IL state Rep/sen races in republican districts (Tom Cullerton & Suzy Glowiak) I can tell you with 100% certainty that both sides are definitely 1-2 issue voters. In fact I had an extremely fiscally conservative candidate in the 74th district for IL House and people would still curse me out and slam the door on me all over Dupage county because she was socially liberal... and she was essentially a pro choice republican. Republicans who are fiscally conservative may look at the whole package but those who use religion as their ethos do not and are 1-2 issue voters.

[pacearrow02]

As someone who worked on the Tammy Baldwin Campaign, volunteered for the 08 Obama campaign, and was a field director for two IL state Rep/sen races in republican districts (Tom Cullerton & Suzy Glowiam) I can tell you with 100% certainty that both sides are definitely 1-2 issue voters. In fact I had an extremely fiscally conservative candidate in the 74th district for IL House and people would still curse me out and slam the door on me all over Dupage county because she was socially liberal... and she was essentially a pro choice republican. Republicans who are fiscally conservative may look at the whole package but those who use religion as their ethos do not and are 1-2 issue voters.

Interesting insider feedback, thanks for sharing!

In your experience you noticed the same with democrat voters?  If there was a pro-life dem candidate who checked all the boxes aside from his or her view towards abortion there would then be a section of dem voters who would look elsewhere because of that one issue disagreement?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Been saying this for months.  It is the main problem with technocrats, and the democratic party.  They suck so much ass at messaging.

Agree, I've said this many times.

John Kerry was perhaps the worst politician, and certainly the worst Presidential candidate, I have ever seen at messaging. Kerry never met a sound byte that he couldn't turn into a laborious three paragraph answer.

[Galway Eagle]

Interesting insider feedback, thanks for sharing!

In your experience you noticed the same with democrat voters?  If there was a pro-life dem candidate who checked all the boxes aside from his or her view towards abortion there would then be a section of dem voters who would look elsewhere because of that one issue disagreement?

In my limited experience with this it leads to lack of engagement rather than aggressively backing a different party's candidate

[Hards Alumni]

As someone who worked on the Tammy Baldwin Campaign, volunteered for the 08 Obama campaign, and was a field director for two IL state Rep/sen races in republican districts (Tom Cullerton & Suzy Glowiak) I can tell you with 100% certainty that both sides are definitely 1-2 issue voters. In fact I had an extremely fiscally conservative candidate in the 74th district for IL House and people would still curse me out and slam the door on me all over Dupage county because she was socially liberal... and she was essentially a pro choice republican. Republicans who are fiscally conservative may look at the whole package but those who use religion as their ethos do not and are 1-2 issue voters.

Neoliberal hogwash.  What are the one or two issues that Democrats vote on?

[Hards Alumni]

1) Way to touch on all the talking points of voter suppression, gerrymandering, blah blah blah

2) If Republicans were 1-2 issue voters it would seem pretty easy for the Democratic Party to shift their stance on abortion, guns, taxes to win over those single issue voters while keeping their democrat base and then run the whole damn country.  Or do they not because democrat voters are also 1-2 issue voters?  Or maybe, just maybe, voters from both sides look at the total package of ideas/values of a candidate and make their decision from there.

1) They're not talking points.  They're demonstrably true.  They're just really inconvenient truths for you.  As an example, go ask the folks in North Carolina.  Or better yet, check out Wisconsin. 

In fact, Wisconsin's maps are so gerrymandered that Republicans can win close to a supermajority of house seats even with a minority of the vote. Analyses of the maps in the lawsuit challenging the maps showed that Republicans are a lock to win 60 percent of statehouse seats even if they win just 48 percent of the vote. This is precisely what happened in 2018, when Democrats won a majority of the statewide vote and swept statewide offices, but Republicans saw the size of their state-house delegation reduced by only a single seat, going from 64 of 99 seats to 63 seats.

Hell, even a Republican from Wisconsin agrees. 

https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2020/09/11/gop-candidate-admits-to-gerrymandering-challenges-dems-to-draw-fair-maps/

I believe you're entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts... I think someone said something like that not too long ago. 

[forgetful]

Wasn't familiar with what Japan 3 C's meant but just read a bit about it.  Love it!!

Government didn't shut anything down just encouraged folks to avoid crowded spaces, closed places, and close contact settings.

So the same messaging state and federal governments have been saying here they were just more disciplined? 

Also came across some people saying they weren't doing much testing so they don't think they're giving an accurate picture of how bad it may or may not have gotten.

The key difference was in Japan, leaders both emphasized the three C's, and led by example.

Here, we have our leader saying one thing, then doing the exact opposite and mocking people who are following those recommendations. That is absolute failure in leadership.

[shoothoops]

A Green Bay doctor did a cable news interview this week.

The doctor asks every patient how they think they contracted COVID-19. By far the most common answer the doctor concluded was small family gatherings from asymptomatic relatives.

People are not wearing masks and distancing at their family gatherings. Children and grandchildren shopping for groceries and other errands are not being cautious enough 100% of the time and then giving it to family.

[warriorchick]

Neoliberal hogwash.  What are the one or two issues that Democrats vote on?

There are plenty of liberal women who would never vote for a pro-life democrat regardless of the rest of their platform.

[Chili]

Wasn't familiar with what Japan 3 C's meant but just read a bit about it.  Love it!!

Government didn't shut anything down just encouraged folks to avoid crowded spaces, closed places, and close contact settings.

So the same messaging state and federal governments have been saying here they were just more disciplined? 

Also came across some people saying they weren't doing much testing so they don't think they're giving an accurate picture of how bad it may or may not have gotten.

Except the Japanese people are a much more considerate and mindful of the common good people vs. Americans. Many Americans are often  selfish d*ckholes when you ask them to do something as simple as wear a mask. You see, every person in Japan wears a mask when they even have the common cold since they don't want to get anyone else sick. The thought of making someone sick weighs more than their minor inconvenience.

[Hards Alumni]

There are plenty of liberal women who would never vote for a pro-life democrat regardless of the rest of their platform.

Well of course, but there are plenty of liberal women who would.  I think you may be misconstruing what I'm saying.  There is a much broader variation of 'deal-breakers' across liberals.  Trump conservatives seem to be guns, taxes, and abortion.  The rest doesn't matter at all.  Otherwise why would Trump have 40% of the country adoring him?  If tomorrow, Trump came out and said he was banning assault rifles, raising taxes, and asking congress to codify legalized abortions what would happen?

If tomorrow Biden were to say, I'm not outlawing any assault weapons, I'm lowering your taxes, and as a Catholic man of faith, I'm asking congress to codify abortions as illegal.  I'd still vote for the guy because of his OTHER stances on the issues, and because he isn't Donald Trump.  It would hurt, but I would hold my nose and vote for him.  Just as I held my nose for Hillary.

There is a much wider range of deal-breakers for Dems than there are for Reps.  That's all I'm saying.

[pacearrow02]

1) They're not talking points.  They're demonstrably true.  They're just really inconvenient truths for you.  As an example, go ask the folks in North Carolina.  Or better yet, check out Wisconsin. 

In fact, Wisconsin's maps are so gerrymandered that Republicans can win close to a supermajority of house seats even with a minority of the vote. Analyses of the maps in the lawsuit challenging the maps showed that Republicans are a lock to win 60 percent of statehouse seats even if they win just 48 percent of the vote. This is precisely what happened in 2018, when Democrats won a majority of the statewide vote and swept statewide offices, but Republicans saw the size of their state-house delegation reduced by only a single seat, going from 64 of 99 seats to 63 seats.

Hell, even a Republican from Wisconsin agrees. 

https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2020/09/11/gop-candidate-admits-to-gerrymandering-challenges-dems-to-draw-fair-maps/

I believe you're entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts... I think someone said something like that not too long ago.

I'm not denying the existence of gerrymandering.  It's a game both sides play so for every one example of republican gerrymandering I'm sure I can find 1 from the dem side. 

[pacearrow02]

So aside from Japan 3 C's anything else we want Evers to be doing that other states have done that has proven to work better?  Or any other country for that matter?

There's no denying the cultural differences between America and Japan but that's not something Evers can fix with any sort of legislative package.