MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => COVID-19 => Topic started by: #UnleashSean on March 19, 2020, 10:54:46 AM
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Let's narrow it down a little so I don't have to wade through the world.
New today: daycares are only open to "essential" kids
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Yahara Bay distillery is distributing 140 proof vodka that can kill bacteria and be drank.
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We pulled our daughter out today to help with the regulation, although there's a good chance we could have kept her there. Just felt like the safest option for everyone, except my productivity.
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My kids are in daycare for now. My wife works at a hospital and I'm trying to keep manufacturing plants open so we feel a little mission critical but it is fu$king gutting me.
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Doc's is shutting it down. Four locations, 250+ employees, son-in-law delivering lots of produce to St. Ben's Community Meal Program (f/k/a "the soup kitchen") and the Rescue Mission.
Milwaukee, Madison, Mokena, IL and Dyer, IN
Curbside pick up at the Milwaukee location was active, but without liquor sales and Fiserv events, the numbers weren't making any sense. Committed to reopening. Thank you to all the folks on this board that supported the cause.
[This is not my business, but that of my son-in-law, who is married to my pregnant daughter, all of whom are healthy]
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Doc's is shutting it down. Four locations, 250+ employees, son-in-law delivering lots of produce to St. Ben's Community Meal Program (f/k/a "the soup kitchen") and the Rescue Mission.
Milwaukee, Madison, Mokena, IL and Dyer, IN
Curbside pick up at the Milwaukee location was active, but without liquor sales and Fiserv events, the numbers weren't making any sense. Committed to reopening. Thank you to all the folks on this board that supported the cause.
[This is not my business, but that of my son-in-law, who is married to my pregnant daughter, all of whom are healthy]
Mokena is where my wife grew up. Next time we go down there, Doc’s will get our business.
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Mokena is where my wife grew up. Next time we go down there, Doc’s will get our business.
Thank you!
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Sir
Very sorry to see your daughter and son in law having this stress during a happy time in their lives. I have two births of granddaughters coming in early to mid April and am worried sick for my kids. My oldest son works with me, and lets just say, helping N. American companies source from Asia is not going gang busters at the moment.
I definitely will make every effort to get to Doc's for carry out on Saturday. Prayers to your family!!
Joe
Sorry Larry I misread. Hope things can turn around for your son in law. The closing makes me sad.
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Have only been to Doc's once. Milwaukee location. Food and service were both excellent. We were looking forward to ordering curbside pickup next week but we'll definitely be back once it re-opens.
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Rumors that national guard will deploy.
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Rumors that national guard will deploy.
Heard the same.
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BUT WILL MY FACEBOOK FEED STILL BE FILLED WITH PEOPLE BLAMING THE MEDIA FOR OVER HYPING THIS?
Asking for a friend.
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BUT WILL MY FACEBOOK FEED STILL BE FILLED WITH PEOPLE BLAMING THE MEDIA FOR OVER HYPING THIS?
Asking for a friend.
HOAX!
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Heard the same.
Pretty much confirmed. Buddy is gearing up.
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Pretty much confirmed. Buddy is gearing up.
The 300 mostly medics? Or the lockdown rumor that I first heard on Tuesday?
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The 300 mostly medics? Or the lockdown rumor that I first heard on Tuesday?
The few guardsmen I know are in Ukraine funny enough.
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The 300 mostly medics? Or the lockdown rumor that I first heard on Tuesday?
Looks like the 300.
https://fox6now.com/2020/03/19/wisconsin-national-guard-preparing-troops-to-assist-states-coronavirus-response-if-needed/
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Two deaths in Wisconsin. Fond du Lac 50 year old and Ozaukee County man in 90’s.
And Milwaukee Mayor Barrett in self quarantine.
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Looking like the area from Milwaukee to Chicago could be a real hotbed for the disease.
Lucky me. Right in the middle.
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Looking like the area from Milwaukee to Chicago could be a real hotbed for the disease.
Lucky me. Right in the middle.
Me too!
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Me too!
Where at? I'm in Racine.
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More changes coming to Wisconsin soon.
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More changes coming to Wisconsin soon.
In terms of?
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In terms of?
More restrictions.
Edit: hearing rumors of further restrictions. Can't actually confirm anything yet. But pretty reliable source.
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More restrictions.
Edit: hearing rumors of further restrictions. Can't actually confirm anything yet. But pretty reliable source.
Heard something similar from a source I trust.
We pulled our kids out of daycare on Monday, then they obviously closed yesterday. Never felt right to have them in there when schools were closed. Wife is in outpatient nursing and can work from home in her role for now. But we're afraid there's an outside chance she gets redeployed to inpatient.
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Where at? I'm in Racine.
I work in Kenosha, live on the other side of the imaginary line.
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Heard something similar from a source I trust.
We pulled our kids out of daycare on Monday, then they obviously closed yesterday. Never felt right to have them in there when schools were closed. Wife is in outpatient nursing and can work from home in her role for now. But we're afraid there's an outside chance she gets redeployed to inpatient.
Can almost guarantee she will....my wife is an Outpatient PT and has part time redeployed into patient screening and observation(make sure every is putting on and taking off their PPE correctly) and other roles that are necessary but not require a fully qualified nurse.
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TmJ4 has a map with all the Milwaukee cases if anyone's interested.
https://mcoem.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/018eedbe075046779b8062b5fe1055bf (https://mcoem.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/018eedbe075046779b8062b5fe1055bf)
edit: this is the link.
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Can almost guarantee she will....my wife is an Outpatient PT and has part time redeployed into patient screening and observation(make sure every is putting on and taking off their PPE correctly) and other roles that are necessary but not require a fully qualified nurse.
She will do it willingly if called upon, as she has a long history in inpatient oncology, but right now, it sounds as though nurses that are in specialty areas where elective procedures are on hold are most likely to get re-appropriated. It still may get to that point, but she won't be the first called.
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Mildly interesting / funny-tragic. Shorewood sent out an email that they will not be enforcing parking regulations.
They list a bunch that won't be enforced .. obvious ones, like parking-time zones, not enforced. Too close to a crosswalk? Not enforced. Wheels too far from the curb? Not enforced.
Ok, that sounds fine.
But also .. You can now park in front of a NO PARKING sign. Oh, and fire hydrants are OK now too. My favorite .. handicapped parking.
I've been waiting 34 years to park in a handicapped spot, now I can finally do that without the hassle of being disabled. 8-)
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TmJ4 has a map with all the Milwaukee cases if anyone's interested.
https://mcoem.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/018eedbe075046779b8062b5fe1055bf (https://mcoem.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/018eedbe075046779b8062b5fe1055bf)
edit: this is the link.
Thank you for this. A bit clunky but helpful to see the distribution more clearly. I do wonder what location is marked for a case. Home? (doesn't seem that would be information released publicly)
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Mildly interesting / funny-tragic. Shorewood sent out an email that they will not be enforcing parking regulations.
They list a bunch that won't be enforced .. obvious ones, like parking-time zones, not enforced. Too close to a crosswalk? Not enforced. Wheels too far from the curb? Not enforced.
Ok, that sounds fine.
But also .. You can now park in front of a NO PARKING sign. Oh, and fire hydrants are OK now too. My favorite .. handicapped parking.
I've been waiting 34 years to park in a handicapped spot, now I can finally do that without the hassle of being disabled. 8-)
Such a facepalm move. Just don't enforce it, and don't tell people. Not enforcing the fire hydrants could be disastrous.
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Wisconsin's press conference this afternoon has been a disaster. Could not sound less prepared and more scrambled. After watching NY all week, the difference could not be more clear. Evers not exactly exuding leadership calm and confidence.
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Wisconsin's press conference this afternoon has been a disaster. Could not sound less prepared and more scrambled. After watching NY all week, the difference could not be more clear. Evers not exactly exuding leadership calm and confidence.
This is shocking somehow?
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(https://i.redd.it/rbm2oeih9hn41.jpg)
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Mildly interesting / funny-tragic. Shorewood sent out an email that they will not be enforcing parking regulations.
They list a bunch that won't be enforced .. obvious ones, like parking-time zones, not enforced. Too close to a crosswalk? Not enforced. Wheels too far from the curb? Not enforced.
Ok, that sounds fine.
But also .. You can now park in front of a NO PARKING sign. Oh, and fire hydrants are OK now too. My favorite .. handicapped parking.
I've been waiting 34 years to park in a handicapped spot, now I can finally do that without the hassle of being disabled. 8-)
Wow. I understand most of them in these strange times...but fire hydrants?!?
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Wisconsin's press conference this afternoon has been a disaster. Could not sound less prepared and more scrambled. After watching NY all week, the difference could not be more clear. Evers not exactly exuding leadership calm and confidence.
That's funny. Earlier this week we had posters talking about what a cluster**** NY is.
I'm guessing some people were disappointed because he used no racial attacks, didn't attack the media, or talk about how how great he is.
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That's funny. Earlier this week we had posters talking about what a cluster**** NY is.
I'm guessing some people were disappointed because he used no racial attacks, didn't attack the media, or talk about how how great he is.
I mentioned nothing about anything you're referring to. NYC has been a cluster due to De Blasio's panicked claims and disorganized rambling speeches. NY state's response and general demeanor has been praised, lots of kudos and praise for Cuomo regardless of political affiliation. He's been collected, reassuring, and measured.
I could care less if Evers was red, blue, green, or Whig, his speech gave no confidence that WI has a handle on things or a plan. But sure, make this another platform to attack Trump. We certainly don't have enough threads for that ::)
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Not sure why no shelter in place order for Wisconsin yet.
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Not sure why no shelter in place order for Wisconsin yet.
I think Wisconsin is watching Illinois, then deploying after seeing their immediate strategy.
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I think Wisconsin is watching Illinois, then deploying after seeing their immediate strategy.
That was the sense I got as well.
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Had to hit three stores to fulfill a small shopping list. One item still unattainable, baking yeast.
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I mentioned nothing about anything you're referring to. NYC has been a cluster due to De Blasio's panicked claims and disorganized rambling speeches. NY state's response and general demeanor has been praised, lots of kudos and praise for Cuomo regardless of political affiliation. He's been collected, reassuring, and measured.
I could care less if Evers was red, blue, green, or Whig, his speech gave no confidence that WI has a handle on things or a plan. But sure, make this another platform to attack Trump. We certainly don't have enough threads for that ::)
I watched the entire press conference and thought it was fine. Low key. Just the facts. He projected calm and outlined the steps that are being taken.
If your issue was that there wasn't enough bluster, then you don't know Evers. We are not NY or Cali and don't need to take the same steps - yet. But he has had a handle on this. He acted to close schools and bars and restaurants. He has called for people to act responsibly. He is working with the Nat'l Guard when most states aren't. He is working with hospitals to get equipment. He has not - and never will - go to the podium and tell us he is doing everything perfect. He has to work in a state whose Senator voted against aid to Wisconsinites and who is against unemployment pay for people who worked in the bars and restaurants that have closed. And most of all - unlike me - he has not called out anyone who makes partisan attacks or disagrees with him
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Had to hit three stores to fulfill a small shopping list. One item still unattainable, baking yeast.
For bread? You can make your own sourdough starter... plus its really fun!
https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/sourdough-starter-recipe
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Mildly interesting / funny-tragic. Shorewood sent out an email that they will not be enforcing parking regulations.
They list a bunch that won't be enforced .. obvious ones, like parking-time zones, not enforced. Too close to a crosswalk? Not enforced. Wheels too far from the curb? Not enforced.
Ok, that sounds fine.
But also .. You can now park in front of a NO PARKING sign. Oh, and fire hydrants are OK now too. My favorite .. handicapped parking.
I've been waiting 34 years to park in a handicapped spot, now I can finally do that without the hassle of being disabled. 8-)
There are no silver linings in this whole mess, but if you're looking for one, it's seeing how many of societal rules are horsecrap. See ISPs lifting data caps, too.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/fmhqv3/fyi_the_sun_prairie_costco_is_only_letting_in/
As a result, there is a huge line outside, and there is a large crowd of waiting people in the enclosed cart area right outside the main entrance. Virtually no observance of the 6 feet rule. I found this to be a hazard, since there were about 100 people all waiting in an enclosed space. We waited for about 20 minutes in the unmoving line outside, then left after we saw the larger group waiting on the other side of the roll-up doors.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/fmhqv3/fyi_the_sun_prairie_costco_is_only_letting_in/
Literally only making it worse that way.
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Literally only making it worse that way.
Yeah, I can imagine someone will get chewed out over that one.
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My niece owns a small café in ‘tosa (Miss Molly’s). She, like so many small businesses curtailed or shut down, is at her wits end to keep running. So like so many, she switched to pick up/delivery and meal kits.
Her cousin lives is NC and wanted to help the cause, but wasn’t driving to Wisconsin for a meal kit. She suggested that her order be delivered to a health care worker or nursing home janitor or firefighter, etc. Solid idea. It has taken hold. People care. Win, win.
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My niece owns a small café in ‘tosa (Miss Molly’s). She, like so many small businesses curtailed or shut down, is at her wits end to keep running. So like so many, she switched to pick up/delivery and meal kits.
Her cousin lives is NC and wanted to help the cause, but wasn’t driving to Wisconsin for a meal kit. She suggested that her order be delivered to a health care worker or nursing home janitor or firefighter, etc. Solid idea. It has taken hold. People care. Win, win.
My fav ideas that I’ve seen include gift cards that are like $80-90 for $100 for future restaurant visits to get some revenue to restaurants right now.
The other I saw from Lettuce Entertain You was meal plans for the week, 3 meals, each from a different restaurant in their family, 3 courses that feeds 4. It’s something I can definitely see sticking on the other side of it
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Not Wisconsin related, but another suggestion I've heard - if you're in need of some emergency child care - contact your favorite restaurant and see if they'd recommend any of their former wait staff. Every little bit helps.
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Nice ideas here about patronizing local places that are now takeout only, the meal kits, and gift cards for future use.
Yesterday, I stopped by a local coffee place that is normally packed but now stuck with takeout only. The co-owner is a friend, and was very appreciative that I stopped by. After I bought my coffee, I decided to get a $50 gift card for future use.
Little things we can do to help out....
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Nice ideas here about patronizing local places that are now takeout only, the meal kits, and gift cards for future use.
Yesterday, I stopped by a local coffee place that is normally packed but now stuck with takeout only. The co-owner is a friend, and was very appreciative that I stopped by. After I bought my coffee, I decided to get a $50 gift card for future use.
Little things we can do to help out....
I drove 20 minutes to get an omelette from my favorite breakfast place this morning. Gift card is a great idea too.
We door-dashed the local Mexican place last night.
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I drove 20 minutes to get an omelette from my favorite breakfast place this morning. Gift card is a great idea too.
We door-dashed the local Mexican place last night.
We've been doing this as well. Learned two of our favorites, sister restaurants La Merenda and Engine Co are shuttering until this is over after today. Did the same for Valentines coffee. Gift cards for local places we often get Xmas gifts too.
Just hope they can survive.
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Not Wisconsin related, but another suggestion I've heard - if you're in need of some emergency child care - contact your favorite restaurant and see if they'd recommend any of their former wait staff. Every little bit helps.
Daycare teachers too, if the center has been shut down or hours cut back.
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The Tandem is one of my favorite restaurants. Got my coworkers gift cards as we’d talked about it before. They were doing carry out but they’ve gone to only free meals for those in need. They have a donation link on their website to make those available. They’ve also laid off most of their employees so they can collect unemployment and they’re making it a free grocery store for those employees. Love their mission and what they do for the community. And incredible chicken (and breakfast burritos).
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Doc's is shutting it down. Four locations, 250+ employees, son-in-law delivering lots of produce to St. Ben's Community Meal Program (f/k/a "the soup kitchen") and the Rescue Mission.
Milwaukee, Madison, Mokena, IL and Dyer, IN
Curbside pick up at the Milwaukee location was active, but without liquor sales and Fiserv events, the numbers weren't making any sense. Committed to reopening. Thank you to all the folks on this board that supported the cause.
[This is not my business, but that of my son-in-law, who is married to my pregnant daughter, all of whom are healthy]
Didn’t know you were doc...had ms II downtown Milwaukee last summer? Great food!! Hang in there man and we Should make it our unofficial ms headquarters
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We've been doing this as well. Learned two of our favorites, sister restaurants La Merenda and Engine Co are shuttering until this is over after today. Did the same for Valentines coffee. Gift cards for local places we often get Xmas gifts too.
Just hope they can survive.
La Merenda by the Clocktower.
I like that place.
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La Merenda by the Clocktower.
I like that place.
Marquette alum owned..
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Marquette alum owned..
His wife is a Badger alum so.....be careful ;)
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For a trade show in Milwaukee I meet up with my Appleton sister plant people there.
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His wife is a Badger alum so.....be careful ;)
The owners of La Merenda and Engine Co No. 3 are Peter and Sonia Sandroni. Great people. Peter is an MU grad and all things MU Rah Rah. They met in Atlanta when he moved there (after he worked briefly for MU) to help with his aunt and uncle's restaurant in Decatur, GA. Sonia is from Bogota, Columbia and went to school there. (Pontificia Universidad Javeriana.) Peter also used to GM the Bongo Room in Chicago in a past life.
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Evers just issued a two week shelter in place order - but he's calling it "safer at home" order. ::)
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Are business shut down
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Are business shut down
https://twitter.com/GovEvers/status/1242097501575901187
Statement from his twitter.
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Who the hell knows what essential businesses means. Or who would be able to enfore it
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Who the hell knows what essential businesses means. Or who would be able to enfore it
Governor Tony Evers
@GovEvers
Workers providing essential care or services in our communities will be allowed to continue to travel to and from work. That includes folks like healthcare professionals, grocers, family caregivers, among other people whose work is critical for folks across our state.
My guess is police and National Guard will be enforcing with large fines. Or we are expected to self police somewhat.
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Who the hell knows what essential businesses means. Or who would be able to enforce it.
Indeed, my company sent out a note that roughly said "We're essential. If you want a letter you can show people, we will provide it."
IMO, I have a hard time imagining our products as essential.
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They aren't going to pull people over or anything like that. And businesses will be able to have their "essential functions" covered as well. We will see.
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They aren't going to pull people over or anything like that. And businesses will be able to have their "essential functions" covered as well. We will see.
That's why I think it's silly to even announce it. It's no different than the suggestion for social distancing
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I find this map interesting:
https://mcoem.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/018eedbe075046779b8062b5fe1055bf
Very few infections south of I-94. Very few infections in the suburbs.
A moderate smattering of cases in the central city but the highest caseload in the near, and far NW section of MKE. I think I'd identify that area as a middle-class African American area -- although that's just a stereotype, not saying it's one race. (The far NW section is an enclave for police, fire, teacher, and other MKE public workers.)
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That's why I think it's silly to even announce it. It's no different than the suggestion for social distancing
Well it forces retail businesses to close. It puts more pressure on people to work from home.
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Who the hell knows what essential businesses means. Or who would be able to enfore it
Anecdotally, it seems like many businesses are going to fall in essential. I think most manufacturing will fight to say they are to keep running.
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FWIW - Connecticut is already at this point. This is the "essential list" in a recent COVID-19 email I received from my State Senator. I'm sure this list will be similar everywhere.
To the extent possible, employees of Essential Businesses whose duties are not critical to an Essential Business function described below should telecommute or utilize any work from home procedures available to them.
For purposes of Executive Order 7H, “essential business,” means:
1. Essential workers in the 16 Critical Infrastructure Sectors, as defined by the federal Department of Homeland Security unless otherwise addressed in a prior or future executive order pertaining to the existing declared public health and civil preparedness emergency.
2. Healthcare and related operations including
biotechnology therapies
consumer health products and services
doctor and dentist offices
elder care, including adult day care
health care plans and health care data
home health care workers or aides
hospitals
manufacturing, distributing, warehousing, and supplying of pharmaceuticals, including research and development
medical marijuana dispensaries and producers
medical supplies and equipment providers, including devices, diagnostics, services, and any other healthcare related supplies or services
medical wholesale and distribution
nursing homes, or residential health care facilities or congregate care facilities
pharmacies
physical therapy and chiropractic offices
research and laboratory services, including testing and treatment of COVID-19
veterinary and animal health services
walk-in-care health facilities
3. Infrastructure including
airports/airlines
commercial trucking
dam maintenance and support
education-related functions at the primary, secondary, or higher education level to provide support for students, including distribution of meals or faculty conducting e-learning
hotels and other places of accommodation
water and wastewater operations, systems, and businesses
telecommunications and data centers
transportation infrastructure including bus, rail, for-hire vehicles and vehicle rentals, and garages
utilities including power generation, fuel supply, and transmission
4. All manufacturing and corresponding supply chains, including aerospace, agriculture, and related support businesses
5. Retail including
appliances, electronics, computers, and telecom equipment
big-box stores or wholesale clubs, provided they also sell groceries, consumer health products, or operate a pharmacy
convenience stores
gas stations
grocery stores including all food and beverage retailers
guns and ammunition
hardware, paint, and building material stores, including home appliance sales/repair
liquor/package stores and manufacturer permittees
pharmacies
pet and pet supply stores
6. Food and agriculture, including
farms and farmer’s markets
food manufacturing, processing, storage, and distribution facilities
nurseries, garden centers, and agriculture supply stores
restaurants/bars (provided compliance with all applicable executive orders is maintained)
7. Services including
accounting and payroll services
animal shelters or animal care or management, including boarding, grooming, pet walking and pet sitting
auto supply, repair, towing, and service, including roadside assistance
bicycle repair and service
building cleaning and maintenance
child care services
critical operations support for financial institutions
financial advisors
financial institutions, including banks, credit unions, and check cashing services
funeral homes, crematoriums, and cemeteries
insurance companies
laundromats/dry cleaning
legal and accounting services
mail and shipping services
marinas and marine repair and service
news and media
real estate transactions and related services, including residential leasing and renting
religious services (subject to Executive Order 7D limiting gatherings to 50 people)
storage for Essential Businesses
trash and recycling collection, hauling, and processing
warehouse/distribution, shipping, and fulfillment
8. Providers of basic necessities to economically disadvantaged populations including
food banks
homeless shelters and congregate care facilities
human services providers whose function includes the direct care of patients in state-licensed or funded voluntary programs; the care, protection, custody and oversight of individuals both in the community and in state-licensed residential facilities; those operating community shelters and other critical human services agencies providing direct care or support social service agencies
9. Construction including
all skilled trades such as electricians, HVAC, and plumbers
general construction, both commercial and residential
other related construction firms and professionals for essential infrastructure or for emergency repair and safety purposes
planning, engineering, design, bridge inspection, and other construction support activities
10. Services necessary to maintain the safety, sanitation and essential operations of all residences and other buildings (including services necessary to secure and maintain non-essential workplaces)
building cleaners or janitors
building code enforcement
disinfection
doormen
emergency management and response
fire prevention and response
general maintenance whether employed by the entity directly or a vendor
home-related services, including real estate transactions, closings, appraisals, and moving services
landscaping services
law enforcement
outdoor maintenance, including pool service
pest control services
security and maintenance, including steps reasonably necessary to secure and maintain non-essential businesses
state marshals
11. Vendors that provide essential services or products, including logistics and technology support, child care, and services needed to ensure the continuing operation of government agencies and provide for the health, safety and welfare of the public including
billboard leasing and maintenance
child care services
essential government services
government owned or leased buildings
information technology and information security
logistics
technology support
12. Defense
defense and national security-related business and operations supporting the U.S. Government or a contractor to the US government
If the function of your business is not listed above, but you believe that it is essential or it is an entity providing essential services or functions, you may request designation as an Essential Business.
Requests by businesses to be designated an essential function as described above, should ONLY be made if they are NOT covered by the guidance. If your business is not included and you feel that it is an essential business, you can appeal to have it added to the list of essential businesses. Here is the link to file your appeal. https://portal.ct.gov/DECD/Content/Coronavirus-for-Businesses/Essential-Business-Designation-Form
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Well it forces retail businesses to close. It puts more pressure on people to work from home.
What about the trades. Landscaping, construction, masonry, welding,painting, woodwork. Etc. Are these essential? Doesnt even matter almost all of these will continue to operate anyways
NvM just read that big ass list
So basically everything is essential essentially
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What about the trades. Landscaping, construction, masonry, welding,painting, woodwork. Etc. Are these essential? Doesnt even matter almost all of these will continue to operate anyways
Private contractors need customers, customers don't want people who might be contagious coming into their homes. Larger companies won't operate because they're liable to the unions and want government contracts and won't risk those.
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Private contractors need customers, customers don't want people who might be contagious coming into their homes. Larger companies won't operate because they're liable to the unions and want government contracts and won't risk those.
Every state with actual winter wants their road building industry back to work. They want those larger numbers off the unemployment count.
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Every state with actual winter wants their road building industry back to work. They want those larger numbers off the unemployment count.
Theoretically this is the perfect time to accelerate infrastructure projects, minimal usage, projects don't require a lot of interaction face to face, and it keeps workers working.
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That being said .. state tax receipts are going to completely plummet in the next many quarters.
Like in 2008, the Feds will/should dump billions into "shovel ready" projects.
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Theoretically this is the perfect time to accelerate infrastructure projects, minimal usage, projects don't require a lot of interaction face to face, and it keeps workers working.
Connecticut is keeping all road construction projects open. There are not a lot of workers at the sites and with way less traffic passing by they can make more progress on the project.
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Another appropriate measure to lower the R0 multiplication factor. This is simply another reasonable step to reduce the number of idiots out there who think this whole thing doesn't apply to them.
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That being said .. state tax receipts are going to completely plummet in the next many quarters.
Like in 2008, the Feds will/should dump billions into "shovel ready" projects.
Yeah that didn't really work though. Infrastructure takes too long to plan for and too long to deploy.
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FWIW - Connecticut is already at this point. This is the "essential list" in a recent COVID-19 email I received from my State Senator. I'm sure this list will be similar everywhere.
To the extent possible, employees of Essential Businesses whose duties are not critical to an Essential Business function described below should telecommute or utilize any work from home procedures available to them.
For purposes of Executive Order 7H, “essential business,” means:
1. Essential workers in the 16 Critical Infrastructure Sectors, as defined by the federal Department of Homeland Security unless otherwise addressed in a prior or future executive order pertaining to the existing declared public health and civil preparedness emergency.
2. Healthcare and related operations including
biotechnology therapies
consumer health products and services
doctor and dentist offices
elder care, including adult day care
health care plans and health care data
home health care workers or aides
hospitals
manufacturing, distributing, warehousing, and supplying of pharmaceuticals, including research and development
medical marijuana dispensaries and producers
medical supplies and equipment providers, including devices, diagnostics, services, and any other healthcare related supplies or services
medical wholesale and distribution
nursing homes, or residential health care facilities or congregate care facilities
pharmacies
physical therapy and chiropractic offices
research and laboratory services, including testing and treatment of COVID-19
veterinary and animal health services
walk-in-care health facilities
3. Infrastructure including
airports/airlines
commercial trucking
dam maintenance and support
education-related functions at the primary, secondary, or higher education level to provide support for students, including distribution of meals or faculty conducting e-learning
hotels and other places of accommodation
water and wastewater operations, systems, and businesses
telecommunications and data centers
transportation infrastructure including bus, rail, for-hire vehicles and vehicle rentals, and garages
utilities including power generation, fuel supply, and transmission
4. All manufacturing and corresponding supply chains, including aerospace, agriculture, and related support businesses
5. Retail including
appliances, electronics, computers, and telecom equipment
big-box stores or wholesale clubs, provided they also sell groceries, consumer health products, or operate a pharmacy
convenience stores
gas stations
grocery stores including all food and beverage retailers
guns and ammunition
hardware, paint, and building material stores, including home appliance sales/repair
liquor/package stores and manufacturer permittees
pharmacies
pet and pet supply stores
6. Food and agriculture, including
farms and farmer’s markets
food manufacturing, processing, storage, and distribution facilities
nurseries, garden centers, and agriculture supply stores
restaurants/bars (provided compliance with all applicable executive orders is maintained)
7. Services including
accounting and payroll services
animal shelters or animal care or management, including boarding, grooming, pet walking and pet sitting
auto supply, repair, towing, and service, including roadside assistance
bicycle repair and service
building cleaning and maintenance
child care services
critical operations support for financial institutions
financial advisors
financial institutions, including banks, credit unions, and check cashing services
funeral homes, crematoriums, and cemeteries
insurance companies
laundromats/dry cleaning
legal and accounting services
mail and shipping services
marinas and marine repair and service
news and media
real estate transactions and related services, including residential leasing and renting
religious services (subject to Executive Order 7D limiting gatherings to 50 people)
storage for Essential Businesses
trash and recycling collection, hauling, and processing
warehouse/distribution, shipping, and fulfillment
8. Providers of basic necessities to economically disadvantaged populations including
food banks
homeless shelters and congregate care facilities
human services providers whose function includes the direct care of patients in state-licensed or funded voluntary programs; the care, protection, custody and oversight of individuals both in the community and in state-licensed residential facilities; those operating community shelters and other critical human services agencies providing direct care or support social service agencies
9. Construction including
all skilled trades such as electricians, HVAC, and plumbers
general construction, both commercial and residential
other related construction firms and professionals for essential infrastructure or for emergency repair and safety purposes
planning, engineering, design, bridge inspection, and other construction support activities
10. Services necessary to maintain the safety, sanitation and essential operations of all residences and other buildings (including services necessary to secure and maintain non-essential workplaces)
building cleaners or janitors
building code enforcement
disinfection
doormen
emergency management and response
fire prevention and response
general maintenance whether employed by the entity directly or a vendor
home-related services, including real estate transactions, closings, appraisals, and moving services
landscaping services
law enforcement
outdoor maintenance, including pool service
pest control services
security and maintenance, including steps reasonably necessary to secure and maintain non-essential businesses
state marshals
11. Vendors that provide essential services or products, including logistics and technology support, child care, and services needed to ensure the continuing operation of government agencies and provide for the health, safety and welfare of the public including
billboard leasing and maintenance
child care services
essential government services
government owned or leased buildings
information technology and information security
logistics
technology support
12. Defense
defense and national security-related business and operations supporting the U.S. Government or a contractor to the US government
If the function of your business is not listed above, but you believe that it is essential or it is an entity providing essential services or functions, you may request designation as an Essential Business.
Requests by businesses to be designated an essential function as described above, should ONLY be made if they are NOT covered by the guidance. If your business is not included and you feel that it is an essential business, you can appeal to have it added to the list of essential businesses. Here is the link to file your appeal. https://portal.ct.gov/DECD/Content/Coronavirus-for-Businesses/Essential-Business-Designation-Form
With a list like that, it would have been a hell of a lot easier (and shorter) to put out a list of non-essential businesses.
An order with no teeth....
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With a list like that, it would have been a hell of a lot easier (and shorter) to put out a list of non-essential businesses.
An order with no teeth....
I dont think you needed to quoute this giant list but yeah anyways i agree.
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FWIW - Connecticut is already at this point. This is the "essential list" in a recent COVID-19 email I received from my State Senator. I'm sure this list will be similar everywhere.
To the extent possible, employees of Essential Businesses whose duties are not critical to an Essential Business function described below should telecommute or utilize any work from home procedures available to them.
For purposes of Executive Order 7H, “essential business,” means:
1. Essential workers in the 16 Critical Infrastructure Sectors, as defined by the federal Department of Homeland Security unless otherwise addressed in a prior or future executive order pertaining to the existing declared public health and civil preparedness emergency.
2. Healthcare and related operations including
biotechnology therapies
consumer health products and services
doctor and dentist offices
elder care, including adult day care
health care plans and health care data
home health care workers or aides
hospitals
manufacturing, distributing, warehousing, and supplying of pharmaceuticals, including research and development
medical marijuana dispensaries and producers
medical supplies and equipment providers, including devices, diagnostics, services, and any other healthcare related supplies or services
medical wholesale and distribution
nursing homes, or residential health care facilities or congregate care facilities
pharmacies
physical therapy and chiropractic offices
research and laboratory services, including testing and treatment of COVID-19
veterinary and animal health services
walk-in-care health facilities
3. Infrastructure including
airports/airlines
commercial trucking
dam maintenance and support
education-related functions at the primary, secondary, or higher education level to provide support for students, including distribution of meals or faculty conducting e-learning
hotels and other places of accommodation
water and wastewater operations, systems, and businesses
telecommunications and data centers
transportation infrastructure including bus, rail, for-hire vehicles and vehicle rentals, and garages
utilities including power generation, fuel supply, and transmission
4. All manufacturing and corresponding supply chains, including aerospace, agriculture, and related support businesses
5. Retail including
appliances, electronics, computers, and telecom equipment
big-box stores or wholesale clubs, provided they also sell groceries, consumer health products, or operate a pharmacy
convenience stores
gas stations
grocery stores including all food and beverage retailers
guns and ammunition
hardware, paint, and building material stores, including home appliance sales/repair
liquor/package stores and manufacturer permittees
pharmacies
pet and pet supply stores
6. Food and agriculture, including
farms and farmer’s markets
food manufacturing, processing, storage, and distribution facilities
nurseries, garden centers, and agriculture supply stores
restaurants/bars (provided compliance with all applicable executive orders is maintained)
7. Services including
accounting and payroll services
animal shelters or animal care or management, including boarding, grooming, pet walking and pet sitting
auto supply, repair, towing, and service, including roadside assistance
bicycle repair and service
building cleaning and maintenance
child care services
critical operations support for financial institutions
financial advisors
financial institutions, including banks, credit unions, and check cashing services
funeral homes, crematoriums, and cemeteries
insurance companies
laundromats/dry cleaning
legal and accounting services
mail and shipping services
marinas and marine repair and service
news and media
real estate transactions and related services, including residential leasing and renting
religious services (subject to Executive Order 7D limiting gatherings to 50 people)
storage for Essential Businesses
trash and recycling collection, hauling, and processing
warehouse/distribution, shipping, and fulfillment
8. Providers of basic necessities to economically disadvantaged populations including
food banks
homeless shelters and congregate care facilities
human services providers whose function includes the direct care of patients in state-licensed or funded voluntary programs; the care, protection, custody and oversight of individuals both in the community and in state-licensed residential facilities; those operating community shelters and other critical human services agencies providing direct care or support social service agencies
9. Construction including
all skilled trades such as electricians, HVAC, and plumbers
general construction, both commercial and residential
other related construction firms and professionals for essential infrastructure or for emergency repair and safety purposes
planning, engineering, design, bridge inspection, and other construction support activities
10. Services necessary to maintain the safety, sanitation and essential operations of all residences and other buildings (including services necessary to secure and maintain non-essential workplaces)
building cleaners or janitors
building code enforcement
disinfection
doormen
emergency management and response
fire prevention and response
general maintenance whether employed by the entity directly or a vendor
home-related services, including real estate transactions, closings, appraisals, and moving services
landscaping services
law enforcement
outdoor maintenance, including pool service
pest control services
security and maintenance, including steps reasonably necessary to secure and maintain non-essential businesses
state marshals
11. Vendors that provide essential services or products, including logistics and technology support, child care, and services needed to ensure the continuing operation of government agencies and provide for the health, safety and welfare of the public including
billboard leasing and maintenance
child care services
essential government services
government owned or leased buildings
information technology and information security
logistics
technology support
12. Defense
defense and national security-related business and operations supporting the U.S. Government or a contractor to the US government
If the function of your business is not listed above, but you believe that it is essential or it is an entity providing essential services or functions, you may request designation as an Essential Business.
Requests by businesses to be designated an essential function as described above, should ONLY be made if they are NOT covered by the guidance. If your business is not included and you feel that it is an essential business, you can appeal to have it added to the list of essential businesses. Here is the link to file your appeal. https://portal.ct.gov/DECD/Content/Coronavirus-for-Businesses/Essential-Business-Designation-Form
Good information thanks
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Good information thanks
lol
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Indeed, my company sent out a note that roughly said "We're essential. If you want a letter you can show people, we will provide it."
IMO, I have a hard time imagining our products as essential.
A lot of companys are pulling a "gamestop". More scared of losses to their profits then to their employees.
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FWIW - Connecticut is already at this point. This is the "essential list" in a recent COVID-19 email I received from my State Senator. I'm sure this list will be similar everywhere.
To the extent possible, employees of Essential Businesses whose duties are not critical to an Essential Business function described below should telecommute or utilize any work from home procedures available to them.
For purposes of Executive Order 7H, “essential business,” means:
1. Essential workers in the 16 Critical Infrastructure Sectors, as defined by the federal Department of Homeland Security unless otherwise addressed in a prior or future executive order pertaining to the existing declared public health and civil preparedness emergency.
2. Healthcare and related operations including
biotechnology therapies
consumer health products and services
doctor and dentist offices
elder care, including adult day care
health care plans and health care data
home health care workers or aides
hospitals
manufacturing, distributing, warehousing, and supplying of pharmaceuticals, including research and development
medical marijuana dispensaries and producers
medical supplies and equipment providers, including devices, diagnostics, services, and any other healthcare related supplies or services
medical wholesale and distribution
nursing homes, or residential health care facilities or congregate care facilities
pharmacies
physical therapy and chiropractic offices
research and laboratory services, including testing and treatment of COVID-19
veterinary and animal health services
walk-in-care health facilities
3. Infrastructure including
airports/airlines
commercial trucking
dam maintenance and support
education-related functions at the primary, secondary, or higher education level to provide support for students, including distribution of meals or faculty conducting e-learning
hotels and other places of accommodation
water and wastewater operations, systems, and businesses
telecommunications and data centers
transportation infrastructure including bus, rail, for-hire vehicles and vehicle rentals, and garages
utilities including power generation, fuel supply, and transmission
4. All manufacturing and corresponding supply chains, including aerospace, agriculture, and related support businesses
5. Retail including
appliances, electronics, computers, and telecom equipment
big-box stores or wholesale clubs, provided they also sell groceries, consumer health products, or operate a pharmacy
convenience stores
gas stations
grocery stores including all food and beverage retailers
guns and ammunition
hardware, paint, and building material stores, including home appliance sales/repair
liquor/package stores and manufacturer permittees
pharmacies
pet and pet supply stores
6. Food and agriculture, including
farms and farmer’s markets
food manufacturing, processing, storage, and distribution facilities
nurseries, garden centers, and agriculture supply stores
restaurants/bars (provided compliance with all applicable executive orders is maintained)
7. Services including
accounting and payroll services
animal shelters or animal care or management, including boarding, grooming, pet walking and pet sitting
auto supply, repair, towing, and service, including roadside assistance
bicycle repair and service
building cleaning and maintenance
child care services
critical operations support for financial institutions
financial advisors
financial institutions, including banks, credit unions, and check cashing services
funeral homes, crematoriums, and cemeteries
insurance companies
laundromats/dry cleaning
legal and accounting services
mail and shipping services
marinas and marine repair and service
news and media
real estate transactions and related services, including residential leasing and renting
religious services (subject to Executive Order 7D limiting gatherings to 50 people)
storage for Essential Businesses
trash and recycling collection, hauling, and processing
warehouse/distribution, shipping, and fulfillment
8. Providers of basic necessities to economically disadvantaged populations including
food banks
homeless shelters and congregate care facilities
human services providers whose function includes the direct care of patients in state-licensed or funded voluntary programs; the care, protection, custody and oversight of individuals both in the community and in state-licensed residential facilities; those operating community shelters and other critical human services agencies providing direct care or support social service agencies
9. Construction including
all skilled trades such as electricians, HVAC, and plumbers
general construction, both commercial and residential
other related construction firms and professionals for essential infrastructure or for emergency repair and safety purposes
planning, engineering, design, bridge inspection, and other construction support activities
10. Services necessary to maintain the safety, sanitation and essential operations of all residences and other buildings (including services necessary to secure and maintain non-essential workplaces)
building cleaners or janitors
building code enforcement
disinfection
doormen
emergency management and response
fire prevention and response
general maintenance whether employed by the entity directly or a vendor
home-related services, including real estate transactions, closings, appraisals, and moving services
landscaping services
law enforcement
outdoor maintenance, including pool service
pest control services
security and maintenance, including steps reasonably necessary to secure and maintain non-essential businesses
state marshals
11. Vendors that provide essential services or products, including logistics and technology support, child care, and services needed to ensure the continuing operation of government agencies and provide for the health, safety and welfare of the public including
billboard leasing and maintenance
child care services
essential government services
government owned or leased buildings
information technology and information security
logistics
technology support
12. Defense
defense and national security-related business and operations supporting the U.S. Government or a contractor to the US government
If the function of your business is not listed above, but you believe that it is essential or it is an entity providing essential services or functions, you may request designation as an Essential Business.
Requests by businesses to be designated an essential function as described above, should ONLY be made if they are NOT covered by the guidance. If your business is not included and you feel that it is an essential business, you can appeal to have it added to the list of essential businesses. Here is the link to file your appeal. https://portal.ct.gov/DECD/Content/Coronavirus-for-Businesses/Essential-Business-Designation-Form
The list would have been shorter if they named what wasn't an essential business.
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That being said .. state tax receipts are going to completely plummet in the next many quarters.
Like in 2008, the Feds will/should dump billions into "shovel ready" projects.
But that didn’t work well then, why now will it?
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We'll let you know what "essential business" means at some point in the future, maybe tomorrow, maybe not. Who knows!
Thanks, really helping us figure out how to respond over here.
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We'll let you know what "essential business" means at some point in the future, maybe tomorrow, maybe not. Who knows!
Thanks, really helping us figure out how to respond over here.
Safer at home, cause ya know we have no idea what is going out there.
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Does anyone have any more info on Village Pointe Commons in Grafton? Have they contained it or have they had more test positive?
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We'll let you know what "essential business" means at some point in the future, maybe tomorrow, maybe not. Who knows!
Thanks, really helping us figure out how to respond over here.
If it is as disappointing as some of the lists we have seen, its lip service, and will not have much of a noticeable effect. This slow walk to a total lockdown needs to stop. Just do it already and spare our poor health care workers any more misery than they are already going through.
Wonder what the rate of retention will be when this is all in the clear. How many will need serious psychiatric help once this is over. I sure hope we give them all the resources they need.
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Honestly, lock it down or don't. There are obvious terms that require definitions, so provide the dang definitions.
If we're working on Connecticut's definition that seems to qualify everything as essential, we're open. If we're working on a different definition, we might not be. We've got a staff that doesn't know what's happening and we can't give them an answer. We can't even give them a timeline on when we might have an answer.
<deep breath>
/close rant
Sorry. Had to get it out of my system.
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If it is as disappointing as some of the lists we have seen, its lip service, and will not have much of a noticeable effect. This slow walk to a total lockdown needs to stop. Just do it already and spare our poor health care workers any more misery than they are already going through.
Wonder what the rate of retention will be when this is all in the clear. How many will need serious psychiatric help once this is over. I sure hope we give them all the resources they need.
You've seen the models that WaPo put out where movement was cut down by 80%, etc. and that it had a huge impact. It is impossible to go to 100% lockdown. In that model, how do we get food? While I agree that the 'essential' list is ridiculously long, this will always be a balancing act. What is intolerable to me are the folks (like those morons on Spring Break last week) who make little or no effort at all.
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We just had a full company meeting, apparently Evers will order a state-wide shutdown likely starting Wednesday. We will close but if the order lasts longer than the 14 days passed in a bailout last week we are looking at layoffs.
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We just had a full company meeting, apparently Evers will order a state-wide shutdown likely starting Wednesday. We will close but if the order lasts longer than the 14 days passed in a bailout last week we are looking at layoffs.
Separate from the order that will take effect tomorrow?
If so, why not just start the damn thing tomorrow.
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Separate from the order that will take effect tomorrow?
If so, why not just start the damn thing tomorrow.
Because firms need time to figure things out, especially when working from home hasn't traditionally been an option.
The fact is you can't have a "total lockdown." If you are keeping grocery stores, pharmacies, etc. open, you have to provide services to those stores. Colleges still have some students still living in the residence halls. They need to be fed and the common spaces need to be cleaned. They are also providing classes remotely. The IT support can't always be done remotely however.
Get as many people home as possible while still serving the basic needs of society.
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We just had a full company meeting, apparently Evers will order a state-wide shutdown likely starting Wednesday. We will close but if the order lasts longer than the 14 days passed in a bailout last week we are looking at layoffs.
Best of luck. That's a tough situation to be in. Lots of uncertainty these days. Hopefully there will be a light at the end of the tunnel soon.
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Honestly, lock it down or don't. There are obvious terms that require definitions, so provide the dang definitions.
If we're working on Connecticut's definition that seems to qualify everything as essential, we're open. If we're working on a different definition, we might not be. We've got a staff that doesn't know what's happening and we can't give them an answer. We can't even give them a timeline on when we might have an answer.
<deep breath>
/close rant
Sorry. Had to get it out of my system.
I think rants are justified in these tough times. I’ve gone off a couple times about the failure of leadership at the top.
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Marquette announced online classes the balance of the semester. Today is the first day students went online for MU.
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Because firms need time to figure things out
My question was more geared at why announce a soft lockdown starting Tuesday and something more drastic a day later?
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Because firms need time to figure things out, especially when working from home hasn't traditionally been an option.
The fact is you can't have a "total lockdown." If you are keeping grocery stores, pharmacies, etc. open, you have to provide services to those stores. Colleges still have some students still living in the residence halls. They need to be fed and the common spaces need to be cleaned. They are also providing classes remotely. The IT support can't always be done remotely however.
Get as many people home as possible while still serving the basic needs of society.
I agree that companies need time to figure things out, but frankly, any CEO who isn't blind as a bat should have seen this coming for at least a week. I doubt one more day will help that blind bat find his sight.
Regarding "total lockdown," I agree. Still, the list from CT is crazy long. You basically need first responders and law enforcement, healthcare workers, grocery stores, and the truckers, food processors and support to keep the grocery shelves stocked. Then add utility workers as needed to keep the basic infrastructure functioning. We should be able to make it 2 weeks without much else.
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Separate from the order that will take effect tomorrow?
If so, why not just start the damn thing tomorrow.
His handlers have written that done for him to say yet.
Isnt this how it's done with leaders that you dont like or agree with?
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My question was more geared at why announce a soft lockdown starting Tuesday and something more drastic a day later?
Pretty sure it's the same lockdown. Going into effect at 12:01am Wednesday.
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Still, the list from CT is crazy long. You basically need first responders and law enforcement, healthcare workers, grocery stores, and the truckers, food processors and support to keep the grocery shelves stocked. Then add utility workers as needed to keep the basis infrastructure functioning. We should be able to make it 2 weeks without much else.
It actually seems longer than it is in practice. I think a lot of places are exempt but keeping a skeleton crew for emergencies. For example my bank called and said they are open but will only allow people in by appointment. Or auto dealers can only have repair shops open (i.e. essential person's car breaks down, they can get it fixed).
So the list permeates, but the activity level is pretty low here.
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I agree that companies need time to figure things out, but frankly, any CEO who isn't blind as a bat should have seen this coming for at least a week. I doubt one more day will help that blind bat find his sight.
Yeah, can you imagine needing more than 3 or 4 days to figure out how to transition thousands of employees into a work from home scenario? Anyone still working through the details on this must be a total moron.
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Yeah, can you imagine needing more than 3 or 4 days to figure out how to transition thousands of employees into a work from home scenario? Anyone still working through the details on this must be a total moron.
I never said they were a moron if they are still working through the details. In fact, most companies will be working through the details well into any shelter in place order. But one more day of planning won't - or at least shouldn't - make a dramatic difference in terms of preparation, while it could make a dramatic difference in terms of slowing the spread.
If you still don't get it, consider this. The virus spreads exponentially, so in one day the rate or infection will increase dramatically. Do you think CEOs' collective knowledge will increase as dramatically - exponentially - in one day as well?
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I think rants are justified in these tough times. I’ve gone off a couple times about the failure of leadership at the top.
Ditto!
But venting on the soapbox is good therapy.
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Who the hell knows what essential businesses means. Or who would be able to enfore it
NM.
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Summerfest moved to September.
At this point I'm thinking the first game in the state with spectators might be a college hoops game.
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Sew iz Summerfest now gonna bee knowan as Fallfest, hey?
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Because firms need time to figure things out, especially when working from home hasn't traditionally been an option.
The fact is you can't have a "total lockdown." If you are keeping grocery stores, pharmacies, etc. open, you have to provide services to those stores. Colleges still have some students still living in the residence halls. They need to be fed and the common spaces need to be cleaned. They are also providing classes remotely. The IT support can't always be done remotely however.
Get as many people home as possible while still serving the basic needs of society.
This. ^^^^^
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Is it expected that a list of “essential” businesses and personnel like Connecticut’s will be released with Evers’s announcement tomorrow?
If Wisconsin’s is similar to that list, what happens if your role falls into a category on that list but your business would not be considered an “essential” business.
If I am fortunate enough to work at a company that will continue to pay everyone even during this shut down and part of my work is on salesmen monthly commissions but I can only run some of the reports needed to complete that work on a printer at work, and the salesmen are paid on commissions, am I allowed to go into work on April 1 to get at least the reports run so I can do everything else from home after that? I assume the answer is yes, but also don’t want to get in legal trouble just trying to do my job. There’s really no way I can properly do my job without going into work at least on April 1.
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lockdown means grocery, pharm, and logistics. EMS, and infrastructure repair only.
This isn't difficult stuff.
Shut down to go food, shut down, all the creature comforts we think are essential.
This is like the bombs falling in London and we are in the tube waiting it out.
We do this for two weeks and we have a shot.
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lockdown means grocery, pharm, and logistics. EMS, and infrastructure repair only.
This isn't difficult stuff.
Shut down to go food, shut down, all the creature comforts we think are essential.
This is like the bombs falling in London and we are in the tube waiting it out.
We do this for two weeks and we have a shot.
That’s what I don’t understand though. Do we have a shot if we lock down for 2 weeks? Grocery stores, pharmacies, etc. are still open. What are the chances every single person working in those industries are virus free? I’d put it at 0.00%. Which means they’ll give it to someone they work with or they tend to at work. Which means after 2 weeks we have people with covid 19. And we’re back to spreading it.
But let’s say it works perfectly and after 2 weeks we’ve stopped the spread in America. How long are we stopping international travel? Can American citizens who are outside of the country not come back then?
I just don’t see how this goes away without an antibody that fights it and/or a vaccine that prevents it. That’s many many months away.
The lockdown is solely so hospitals don’t get overcrowded. Locking down for 2 weeks will only delay that. Which is better than just letting it go. But I just don’t think the 2 week lockdown will be as effective as people hope. Especially if it’s just state by state and not an entire nation lockdown.
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That’s what I don’t understand though. Do we have a shot if we lock down for 2 weeks? Grocery stores, pharmacies, etc. are still open. What are the chances every single person working in those industries are virus free? I’d put it at 0.00%. Which means they’ll give it to someone they work with or they tend to at work. Which means after 2 weeks we have people with covid 19. And we’re back to spreading it.
But let’s say it works perfectly and after 2 weeks we’ve stopped the spread in America. How long are we stopping international travel? Can American citizens who are outside of the country not come back then?
I just don’t see how this goes away without an antibody that fights it and/or a vaccine that prevents it. That’s many many months away.
The lockdown is solely so hospitals don’t get overcrowded. Locking down for 2 weeks will only delay that. Which is better than just letting it go. But I just don’t think the 2 week lockdown will be as effective as people hope. Especially if it’s just state by state and not an entire nation lockdown.
I don’t think the hope is to eradicate it at this point with these measures. The charts shown last week in the WaPo article showed that even cutting down our activity by 80% has a huge positive impact on flattening the curve.
I think we would need to shut down much longer than 2 weeks to stop this. However, the shutting down for 2 weeks at least let’s the hospitals, PPE suppliers, etc. catch up and spread out the spike. Granted, it feels like the federal government is not fully utilizing some of the time we are buying.
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My guess is that it is simply easier for society to accept a two-week "stay at home" order, and then extend it for another week or two after that, versus just saying "hey we are shutting down until May 1."
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That’s what I don’t understand though. Do we have a shot if we lock down for 2 weeks? Grocery stores, pharmacies, etc. are still open. What are the chances every single person working in those industries are virus free? I’d put it at 0.00%. Which means they’ll give it to someone they work with or they tend to at work. Which means after 2 weeks we have people with covid 19. And we’re back to spreading it.
But let’s say it works perfectly and after 2 weeks we’ve stopped the spread in America. How long are we stopping international travel? Can American citizens who are outside of the country not come back then?
I just don’t see how this goes away without an antibody that fights it and/or a vaccine that prevents it. That’s many many months away.
The lockdown is solely so hospitals don’t get overcrowded. Locking down for 2 weeks will only delay that. Which is better than just letting it go. But I just don’t think the 2 week lockdown will be as effective as people hope. Especially if it’s just state by state and not an entire nation lockdown.
Two weeks should allow us to determine who is and is not infected. Allows our health care system to not be as overwhelmed. Flattens the curve. Allows plans to be deployed.
Doesn't eliminate the problem at all. We are way past that. We won't see normal again until the end of summer.
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I never said they were a moron if they are still working through the details. In fact, most companies will be working through the details well into any shelter in place order. But one more day of planning won't - or at least shouldn't - make a dramatic difference in terms of preparation, while it could make a dramatic difference in terms of slowing the spread.
If you still don't get it, consider this. The virus spreads exponentially, so in one day the rate or infection will increase dramatically. Do you think CEOs' collective knowledge will increase as dramatically - exponentially - in one day as well?
No but it allows another day to hear if a stimulus package is coming or not and understand that scenario. People seem to think businesses can just turn off/on. There are very real discussions about holding out for another few days/week for news, or laying off large portions of companies. The "businesses will come back, profits will come back" narrative is great for huge companies with reserves and buffers. Small/medium sized businesses who didn't have a great start to 2020 are close to toast and just sending people home for a few weeks to start back up again in May isn't realistic.
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No but it allows another day to hear if a stimulus package is coming or not and understand that scenario. People seem to think businesses can just turn off/on. There are very real discussions about holding out for another few days/week for news, or laying off large portions of companies. The "businesses will come back, profits will come back" narrative is great for huge companies with reserves and buffers. Small/medium sized businesses who didn't have a great start to 2020 are close to toast and just sending people home for a few weeks to start back up again in May isn't realistic.
I mean, you're sort of assuming that small/medium sized businesses aren't going to get some sort of federal bailout here.
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No but it allows another day to hear if a stimulus package is coming or not and understand that scenario. People seem to think businesses can just turn off/on. There are very real discussions about holding out for another few days/week for news, or laying off large portions of companies. The "businesses will come back, profits will come back" narrative is great for huge companies with reserves and buffers. Small/medium sized businesses who didn't have a great start to 2020 are close to toast and just sending people home for a few weeks to start back up again in May isn't realistic.
I don't think businesses can just turn off and on. I know it's complicated.
But I also KNOW the virus won't just turn off while we wait another day. And since it spreads exponentially, the damage from that growth will outweigh any benefit we get from waiting.
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Does anyone have any additional information on Village Pointe Commons in Grafton? It's a senior living facility in which a 91 year old man died last Thursday and 3 others have contracted Covid-19. The National Guard has been brought in to assist the staff. With other senior facilities with an outbreak of Covid-19, the cases seem to multiply quickly, but I've not seen any more information on this facility regarding additional cases. Is it being kept under wraps for some reason? Have they gotten control of it at this facility and, if so, what did they do to stop the spread? I've got a mother-in-law down the road in the same type facility in Mequon and the obvious concern is what to do if it hits her place.
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I mean, you're sort of assuming that small/medium sized businesses aren't going to get some sort of federal bailout here.
There's been no clarity or legit hint as to what is coming other than a general bailout. And is that payroll covered for 2 weeks? 4 weeks? Still doesn't cover potential outstanding debt service, AP, etc... The idea that CEO's/business owners should have had this covered and accounted for by a week more by now is ridiculous, especially when not everyone has bountiful resources for contingency plans.
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There's been no clarity or legit hint as to what is coming other than a general bailout. And is that payroll covered for 2 weeks? 4 weeks? Still doesn't cover potential outstanding debt service, AP, etc... The idea that CEO's/business owners should have had this covered and accounted for by a week more by now is ridiculous, especially when not everyone has bountiful resources for contingency plans.
The plan that Rubio put forward the other day would be an incredible help for small businesses. Maintain the payroll for 6-8 weeks and the money becomes a grant rather than a loan (that part not used for payroll would still be a loan). That would keep the employees on board so that when the business opened up again, the employees will still be there. I represent a number of restaurant franchisees that may end up laying off countless employees. If money goes directly to the employees after the layoffs occur, rather than the employer maintaining the employees, the employer will lose many of those people as employees.
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(https://i.redd.it/tjha3jktneo41.jpg)
Out of hartford
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aka #f*ckyoupayme.
What is interesting is if all the tenants band together and tell the landlord to kick rocks... what happens? Do they all get evicted? That'd be impossible, plus it'd be bad press.
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The Governor issued his order today. Runs through April 24. Numerous exceptions. Man, that's a long time with just the wife and I at home....
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The Governor issued his order today. Runs through April 24.
Numerous exceptions. Man, that's a long time with just the wife and I at home....
Ive already made multiple jokes about breaking up haha
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The Governor issued his order today. Runs through April 24. Numerous exceptions. Man, that's a long time with just the wife and I at home....
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/health-and-fitness/is-it-safe-to-have-sex-coronavirus (https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/health-and-fitness/is-it-safe-to-have-sex-coronavirus)
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The Governor issued his order today. Runs through April 24. Numerous exceptions. Man, that's a long time with just the wife and I at home....
Or:
https://news.yahoo.com/york-city-health-officials-safest-153000313.html (https://news.yahoo.com/york-city-health-officials-safest-153000313.html)
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Wow thanks for jerk off advice to keep us safe..
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The Governor issued his order today. Runs through April 24. Numerous exceptions. Man, that's a long time with just the wife and I at home....
If it's anything like Indiana, the order has no teeth whatsoever
https://www.reddit.com/r/indianapolis/comments/fnvyg4/if_you_believe_your_business_is_nonessential_but/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
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aka #f*ckyoupayme.
What is interesting is if all the tenants band together and tell the landlord to kick rocks... what happens? Do they all get evicted? That'd be impossible, plus it'd be bad press.
Maybe, just maybe the landlord needs money too, aina?
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aka #f*ckyoupayme.
What is interesting is if all the tenants band together and tell the landlord to kick rocks... what happens? Do they all get evicted? That'd be impossible, plus it'd be bad press.
Ah a general rent strike. A classic of dorm-room and college seminar type what-if reasoning about means to break what some see as an unjust distribution of land and capital. Who woulda thought it only takes a global pandemic to mainstream the idea.
First I saw "nationalize critical industries" as an idea that moved from the fringe to the mainstream on Twitter. Then "see a general labor strike *would* work and we should do it more often" creeping into the conversation. Now, a general rent strike... that overton window sure is shifting.
Anyway, more to your point. Right now if you don't pay your rent the odds of you getting evicted anytime soon are somewhere between slim and none. The courthouses are closed. Milwaukee is adjourning eviction cases into July that are normally scheduled within 25 days of filing, and the small claims judge issued a stay on all writs of restitution (the orders directing the sheriff's to oversee an eviction) that is in place until at least April 9. Now... does that judge have any legal authority to do so, you might rightfully be wondering. Well, the answer is almost certainly not, but the remedy if you're a landlord that's been affected by this is to appeal that order and perhaps get the order struck down in 6-9 months.
From a practical perspective, if tenants are cool with catching up on rent and any accrued late fees once the crisis clears, there's precious little their landlords can do to them in the meantime.
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Maybe, just maybe the landlord needs money too, aina?
Oh, I understand, he has his bills to pay as well. I just find the, "go work at wal mart, you bums" to be a tad condescending.
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Oh, I understand, he has his bills to pay as well. I just find the, "go work at wal mart, you bums" to be a tad condescending.
Yeah, that memo isn't really the best look.
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First I saw "nationalize critical industries" as an idea that moved from the fringe to the mainstream on Twitter.
Mainstream on Twitter?
You’re trying to trick us, aren’t you?
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How much money do you guys think is out there to just pump, all at once, back into businesses that may not even survive what $timuli that can be doled out?
Our economy depends on money FLOW.
Easy to say, just lock everything down for 2, 3, 4 weeks...whatever it takes, but at what cost? That is not going to get rid of this virus anyway. After 2-3-4 weeks our economy will be in the mother of all depressions.
The chloroquine/zpack has shown to be very effective...100%? What drugs are 100% free of side effects?
Plasma antibodies
Eventual vaccines
We have to go with what we have right now as the better wheel is being developed.
Remember what we did during the AIDS epidemic? Don’t stop having sex, whoa no, just practice it safely?
There aren’t going to be absolutely perfect answers because there will be downsides to everything. What has the least numbers of downsides. This is where people are being stupid. Only “there guys” have the best answers or better yeast, just sit back and criticize anyone who tries to come up with some answers. But to burn down the house?
Yeah, but how was the play mrs Lincoln?
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How much money do you guys think is out there to just pump, all at once, back into businesses that may not even survive what $timuli that can be doled out?
Our economy depends on money FLOW.
Easy to say, just lock everything down for 2, 3, 4 weeks...whatever it takes, but at what cost? That is not going to get rid of this virus anyway. After 2-3-4 weeks our economy will be in the mother of all depressions.
The chloroquine/zpack has shown to be very effective...100%? What drugs are 100% free of side effects?
Plasma antibodies
Eventual vaccines
We have to go with what we have right now as the better wheel is being developed.
Remember what we did during the AIDS epidemic? Don’t stop having sex, whoa no, just practice it safely?
There aren’t going to be absolutely perfect answers because there will be downsides to everything. What has the least numbers of downsides. This is where people are being stupid. Only “there guys” have the best answers or better yeast, just sit back and criticize anyone who tries to come up with some answers. But to burn down the house?
Yeah, but how was the play mrs Lincoln?
Well the fed just prints it, so there is really as much as they want. As long as inflation doesn't go through the roof. I'm not advocating that, of course. But that is reality.
We absolutely have to shut down. Two week minimum. If we'd have done this a month and a half ago, we would be done by now. Every day we decide not to do it, we just do more damage.
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just sit back and criticize anyone who tries to come up with some answers.
You asked a lot of questions - I didn't see many answers there either.
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You asked a lot of questions - I didn't see many answers there either.
How many answers do you want?
I listed the 2-3 possible pharmaceuticals that should be used while we work toward better ones, eventually getting to a vaccine. Which, btw, will have some side effects
Otherwise, I am hinting if you will, toward starting to open things up within the next week or two. We cannot afford to allow our economy to get to the point of no return. The government cannot Continue to provide for all of those without a paycheck.
Ok, I just opened to the door to get slammed on me. Nothing comes with a 100% guarantee. Maintain safe practices and let’s get back to work
Full disclosure, they just closed the nursing home my dad is in to ALL visitors, including my mom. Yes, that is essential. These residents are MOST at risk to catch the virus and DIE. We will be visiting via FaceTime and phone probably more than we got in to visit him which was about once per week per sibling but every day for mom
btw, how are drug addicts getting along? Didn’t see that on the list of “essential services”. Just saying, be careful out there because a crazed drug addict can/will present with some real safety issues.
Uncle joe, “ you have to take care of the cure, that will make the problem worse no matter what” ...wha wha what? Someone test him please
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Uncle joe, “ you have to take care of the cure, that will make the problem worse no matter what” ...wha wha what? Someone test him please
Don't act like your guy is some genius who never says idiotic things either. Play even or don't play at all.
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How many answers do you want?
I listed the 2-3 possible pharmaceuticals that should be used while we work toward better ones, eventually getting to a vaccine. Which, btw, will have some side effects
Otherwise, I am hinting if you will, toward starting to open things up within the next week or two. We cannot afford to allow our economy to get to the point of no return. The government cannot Continue to provide for all of those without a paycheck.
Ok, I just opened to the door to get slammed on me. Nothing comes with a 100% guarantee. Maintain safe practices and let’s get back to work
Full disclosure, they just closed the nursing home my dad is in to ALL visitors, including my mom. Yes, that is essential. These residents are MOST at risk to catch the virus and DIE. We will be visiting via FaceTime and phone probably more than we got in to visit him which was about once per week per sibling but every day for mom
btw, how are drug addicts getting along? Didn’t see that on the list of “essential services”. Just saying, be careful out there because a crazed drug addict can/will present with some real safety issues.
Uncle joe, “ you have to take care of the cure, that will make the problem worse no matter what” ...wha wha what? Someone test him please
It will be substantially worse for our economy if we come back too early, see cases spike, and have to shut down again.
If the US is such a great country, shutting down (without really shutting down) for a few weeks isn’t going to take our economy to the brink of no return.
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How many answers do you want?
I listed the 2-3 possible pharmaceuticals that should be used while we work toward better ones, eventually getting to a vaccine. Which, btw, will have some side effects
Otherwise, I am hinting if you will, toward starting to open things up within the next week or two. We cannot afford to allow our economy to get to the point of no return. The government cannot Continue to provide for all of those without a paycheck.
Ok, I just opened to the door to get slammed on me. Nothing comes with a 100% guarantee. Maintain safe practices and let’s get back to work
Full disclosure, they just closed the nursing home my dad is in to ALL visitors, including my mom. Yes, that is essential. These residents are MOST at risk to catch the virus and DIE. We will be visiting via FaceTime and phone probably more than we got in to visit him which was about once per week per sibling but every day for mom
btw, how are drug addicts getting along? Didn’t see that on the list of “essential services”. Just saying, be careful out there because a crazed drug addict can/will present with some real safety issues.
Uncle joe, “ you have to take care of the cure, that will make the problem worse no matter what” ...wha wha what? Someone test him please
Wrong. Getting back to work is going to be a catastrophic decision
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I listed the 2-3 possible pharmaceuticals that should be used while we work toward better ones, eventually getting to a vaccine. Which, btw, will have some side effects
Well, studies are currently under way. No proof yet they do much. Mass market would be months away
Otherwise, I am hinting if you will, toward starting to open things up within the next week or two. We cannot afford to allow our economy to get to the point of no return. The government cannot Continue to provide for all of those without a paycheck.
I don't disagree - but think we need to try to hold off until Apr 6ish. I think you also understand, if lots of people are working and the healthcare system collapses, it's going to be as bad, if not worse.
Full disclosure, they just closed the nursing home my dad is in to ALL visitors, including my mom. Yes, that is essential. These residents are MOST at risk to catch the virus and DIE. We will be visiting via FaceTime and phone probably more than we got in to visit him which was about once per week per sibling but every day for mom
Yup, glad they're doing it - hopefully all are/have - and hope it's not too late!
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Wrong. Getting back to work is going to be a catastrophic decision
Maybe. It might be also catastrophic if we don't. There is no good decision here.
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Maybe, just maybe the landlord needs money too, aina?
Yeah. So it's a good thing he knows that he can go to work for Amazon or Walmart, like he told his tenants to do...
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Maybe. It might be also catastrophic if we don't. There is no good decision here.
It's not going to be pandemic levels of catastrophe.
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It's not going to be pandemic levels of catastrophe.
Hard to say.
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"Well, studies are currently under way. No proof yet they do much. Mass market would be months away"
for vaccine, yes, but chloroquinone + z pack has been used in studies quite successfully by renowned french doc. 5-6 days and virus is gowne! granted the numbers of patients tested aren't large, but from what they've seen, it's better than nothing. better than drinking fish tank water. the drugs themselves have been in use for many years. we have used many drugs "side effects" for uses other than their primary intentions many times
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/24/coronavirus-chloroquine-poisoning-death/
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chloroquinone + z pack has been used in studies quite successfully by renowned french doc. 5-6 days and virus is gowne!
OK. Not going to argue. I'll let you keep holding your breath on that. I feel like you've invested in the solution and hope it works miracles (so that you make money). But even if it's a miracle worker (it's probably not), I'm betting that it won't be widely recommended for at least 90 days.
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Maybe. It might be also catastrophic if we don't. There is no good decision here.
Given a choice between health catastrophe and economic catastrophe, you say ... eh, flip a coin?
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OK. Not going to argue. I'll let you keep holding your breath on that. I feel like you've invested in the solution and hope it works miracles (so that you make money). But even if it's a miracle worker (it's probably not), I'm betting that it won't be widely recommended for at least 90 days.
“ invested”? Don’t even know who makes it. Pfizer and a bunch of others. Same for azithromycin. If you know which company makes the “best generic”. I’m all ears. Let me go grab my checkbook.
If these continue to show the efficacy it has, katy bar the door. This is how the research and clinical testing is supposed to work while they continue to work on a vaccine.
If you had a mild to nasty case of coved-19, wouldn’t you want to take it? I know I would and yes I would recommend to any family member under same conditions, unless there were other underlying factors.
Just trying to be half-full I guess
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If you had a mild to nasty case of coved-19, wouldn’t you want to take it?
If I had a mild case, I'd ride it out. If I had a nasty case, I'd leave the big decisions to the medical professionals, not try to tell them what chemical cocktail I think they they should give me. I think they're better suited to make that decision.
Just trying to be half-full I guess
Oh, I think we all know you're well PAST half full of it!
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If I had a mild case, I'd ride it out. If I had a nasty case, I'd leave the big decisions to the medical professionals, not try to tell them what chemical cocktail I think they they should give me. I think they're better suited to make that decision.
Oh, I think we all know you're well PAST half full of it!
i knew when i posted that it was wide open for something like that. just didn't think it would have been from you.
oh, and thank you for your "heart felt" response to the disclosure of my 84 year old dad being left alone in his nursing home...oh well
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rocket
Why do you bother with these fools. True colors have been exposed to the highest level. The total lack of respect on here is disgusting. Sadly, a moderator shows so much disrespect to fellow scoopers and allows others to do the same.
I feel extremely badly for the situation that your family currently is experiencing. I am sending my prayers to your Mom and Dad and hope they can see each other sooner than later.
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oh, and thank you for your "heart felt" response to the disclosure of my 84 year old dad being left alone in his nursing home...oh well
True colors have been exposed to the highest level.
I was legitimately relieved for rocket that they shut his dad's home down to visitors. It's the safest option for nursing homes.
My 80 YO mom lives alone in NM and I've advised her to avoid contact with others.
Take care all.
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Hard to say.
Not really.
WTF is wrong with people? Everywhere else in the world, nations are shutting down the economy and providing financial security for its citizens. And what are we doing? Worrying about the economy and figuring out how many lives are worth it.
And this is lead by people who likely label themselves as "pro-life."
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Not really.
WTF is wrong with people? Everywhere else in the world, nations are shutting down the economy and providing financial security for its citizens. And what are we doing? Worrying about the economy and figuring out how many lives are worth it.
And this is lead by people who likely label themselves as "pro-life."
Back to normal by easter
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Cruelist fookin' animals on Earth are humans, aina?
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https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-03-25/hydroxychloroquine-no-better-than-regular-covid-19-care-in-study?__twitter_impression=true
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Given a choice between health catastrophe and economic catastrophe, you say ... eh, flip a coin?
Such a flippant, simplistic statement. I expect better from someone with your intellect.
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Back to normal by easter
Apparently Milwaukee isn't listening to the President -
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/2020/03/24/coronavirus-milwaukee-archdiocese-cancels-catholic-easter-mass/2913405001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/2020/03/24/coronavirus-milwaukee-archdiocese-cancels-catholic-easter-mass/2913405001/)
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Such a flippant, simplistic statement. I expect better from someone with your intellect.
You're not mad at me, just disappointed.
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Apparently Milwaukee isn't listening to the President -
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/2020/03/24/coronavirus-milwaukee-archdiocese-cancels-catholic-easter-mass/2913405001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/2020/03/24/coronavirus-milwaukee-archdiocese-cancels-catholic-easter-mass/2913405001/)
Who in their right mind would wanna go to a packed church anytime soon.
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The local police chief had to go on the morning news to tell people to stop calling 9-1-1 and telling on their neighbors who are outside or taking "suspicious" car rides.
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The local police chief had to go on the morning news to tell people to stop calling 9-1-1 and telling on their neighbors who are outside or taking "suspicious" car rides.
Lol That's some 1700s Puritan neighborhood stuff right there.
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You're not mad at me, just disappointed.
Certainly not angry. And in the unlikely event that you don’t expect better from yourself, not disappointed either.
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Who in their right mind would wanna go to a packed church anytime soon.
Probably lots of people. If bars opened back up this weekend, there’d be lines out the door at every one of them. If the Brewers announced they were playing tomorrow, there’d be 40,000 people at the stadium, all of them tailgating. The only way to get the general public to stop doing this stuff is to literally take away the option. It sucks, but it is what it is.
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Certainly not angry. And in the unlikely event that you don’t expect better from yourself, not disappointed either.
I thought my snark was an appropriate response. Certainly harsher things could be - and have been - said to those who seem willing to trade lives for money.
I respect your feelings of disappointment in my remarks.
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Not really.
WTF is wrong with people? Everywhere else in the world, nations are shutting down the economy and providing financial security for its citizens. And what are we doing? Worrying about the economy and figuring out how many lives are worth it.
And this is lead by people who likely label themselves as "pro-life."
Thanks for this post.
You saved all Scoopers from another one of my rants.
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Not really.
WTF is wrong with people? Everywhere else in the world, nations are shutting down the economy and providing financial security for its citizens. And what are we doing? Worrying about the economy and figuring out how many lives are worth it.
And this is lead by people who likely label themselves as "pro-life."
::) Thanks for your thoughts.
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Who in their right mind would wanna go to a packed church anytime soon.
Fcukwits like Roy Moore
"Moore has been critical of efforts to “flatten the curve” on the coronavirus by closing schools, businesses, and Churches and has recently compared those actions to the works of “tyrants.”
“I am writing a letter to pastors on the duty to continue church assemblies, even in the midst of these trying times,” Moore added. “Our faith requires it, our duty demands it, and no law or government can prohibit it. See our Facebook page for more information.”
https://www.alreporter.com/2020/03/25/roy-moore-says-not-to-give-in-to-fear/
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Not really.
WTF is wrong with people? Everywhere else in the world, nations are shutting down the economy and providing financial security for its citizens. And what are we doing? Worrying about the economy and figuring out how many lives are worth it.
And this is lead by people who likely label themselves as "pro-life."
Britt Hume has joined the "Let Old People Die" brigade, I see.
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Given a choice between health catastrophe and economic catastrophe, you say ... eh, flip a coin?
The economic can also lead to other health catastrophic events. Crime. Suicide. Depression for starters. Again, no easy choice in the future.
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Britt Hume has joined the "Let Old People Die" brigade, I see.
He's 76, so I assume when the time comes he will just die at home instead of heading to the hospital for a ventilator.
Sorta like Hannity and his water boarding.
Real tough guys until they're made to put their money where their mouth is.
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The economic can also lead to other health catastrophic events. Crime. Suicide. Depression for starters. Again, no easy choice in the future.
Less likely if you enhance the safety net.
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The economic can also lead to other health catastrophic events. Crime. Suicide. Depression for starters. Again, no easy choice in the future.
Crime rates fell during the Great Recession.
As for suicide, is the argument that we should let Person A die from illness now so that Person B might be less inclined to kill himself in the future?
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Thank you mods, for removing posts wishing death for some. Has NO place here!
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Wisconsin company bucking the trend.
https://www.news8000.com/kwik-trip-to-give-26000-workers-bonuses-during-covid-19-battle/?fbclid=IwAR0uu-_RvqW7quPJusQU9iguKcZ8ECjkm9YDnAs3a-ftGTGlOrjoAh1bj5U
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Wisconsin company bucking the trend.
https://www.news8000.com/kwik-trip-to-give-26000-workers-bonuses-during-covid-19-battle/?fbclid=IwAR0uu-_RvqW7quPJusQU9iguKcZ8ECjkm9YDnAs3a-ftGTGlOrjoAh1bj5U
. Underrated WI company
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Some in the Wisconsin Senate and Assembly think they should have the power to make the decision on closings or stay-at-home edicts on coronavirus - not the governor.
I expect we will see this before long in other states as well.
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Some in the Wisconsin Senate and Assembly think they should have the power to make the decision on closings or stay-at-home edicts on coronavirus - not the governor.
I expect we will see this before long in other states as well.
Kansas removed power from the governor last week
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. Underrated WI company
Not by those who follow Charlie Berens.
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Looks like the “mod” erased a fair amount of posts. True colors exposed in difficult times. Actually, the lack of respect was exposed whenever certain people do not like a post.
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Looks like the “mod” erased a fair amount of posts. True colors exposed in difficult times. Actually, the lack of respect was exposed whenever certain people do not like a post.
WTF are you bellyaching about? There was one post on this thread by Jockey I deleted today. One! None of the other mods touched this thread either. I'll post the rest of MY moderation from the COVID-19 thread so you can audit my biases. Don't be an idiot goose, you're better than this.
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WTF are you bellyaching about? There was one post on this thread by Jockey I deleted today. One! None of the other mods touched this thread either. I'll post the rest of MY moderation from the COVID-19 thread so you can audit my biases. Don't be an idiot goose, you're better than this.
Lol.
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WTF are you bellyaching about? There was one post on this thread by Jockey I deleted today. One! None of the other mods touched this thread either. I'll post the rest of MY moderation from the COVID-19 thread so you can audit my biases. Don't be an idiot goose, you're better than this.
I'll verify what Rocky is saying. I didn't think my post was out of line, but it's his board and I will respect his decisions on any of my posts whether I agree or disagree with that decision..
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Looks like the “mod” erased a fair amount of posts. True colors exposed in difficult times. Actually, the lack of respect was exposed whenever certain people do not like a post.
Weird...reminded me of some nasty blackouts a long time ago
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rocky
Ok
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Not by those who follow Charlie Berens.
Keep er movin
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(https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/d756f39/2147483647/strip/true/crop/4032x2268+0+245/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fewscripps.brightspotcdn.com%2Ff2%2F3a%2F09523ff5438bb8f814d9109eb95f%2Fred-white-blue.jpg)
Red, white, and blue for hope.
Source: TMJ4
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(https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/d756f39/2147483647/strip/true/crop/4032x2268+0+245/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fewscripps.brightspotcdn.com%2Ff2%2F3a%2F09523ff5438bb8f814d9109eb95f%2Fred-white-blue.jpg)
Red, white, and blue for hope.
Source: TMJ4
Hopefull
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Ok.my family has been on stay at home for 2 full weeks. I dont think any of us caught it. (Maybe real minor for me, could also be seasonal allergies kicking in.)
So, thinking we are safe from having it. (Realize that going to the store is a new possible exposure every time.)
How much longer do we have to wait in Wisconsin for a projected all clear? I know the governor's order says end of april, but is that realistic still with the actual spread in WI?
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Ok.my family has been on stay at home for 2 full weeks. I dont think any of us caught it. (Maybe real minor for me, could also be seasonal allergies kicking in.)
So, thinking we are safe from having it. (Realize that going to the store is a new possible exposure every time.)
How much longer do we have to wait in Wisconsin for a projected all clear? I know the governor's order says end of april, but is that realistic still with the actual spread in WI?
Realistically, an all clear when we have a vaccine in 12-15 months.
Before then, you just may have less risk at different times.
Not trying to be pessimistic, just the reality of the situation given that we do not have the means to suppress this in the ways China did.
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Realistically, an all clear when we have a vaccine in 12-15 months.
Before then, you just may have less risk at different times.
Not trying to be pessimistic, just the reality of the situation given that we do not have the means to suppress this in the ways China did.
We know how the line on the graph moves. Been almost the same everywhere and it is just starting to take off in Wisconsin. Cases have gone up by 150% in the last 5 days. They are probably going to continue that trends for weeks yet. As of now, I see no way the order will be lifted anytime soon. I'm just hoping the stay at home order slows things enough so it can be at least partially lifted by April 24.
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Ok.my family has been on stay at home for 2 full weeks. I dont think any of us caught it. (Maybe real minor for me, could also be seasonal allergies kicking in.)
So, thinking we are safe from having it. (Realize that going to the store is a new possible exposure every time.)
How much longer do we have to wait in Wisconsin for a projected all clear? I know the governor's order says end of april, but is that realistic still with the actual spread in WI?
We still don't have our testing up and running. Just had an employee text last night that he was around his friend last weekend who is now suspected of having it and is being told to self isolate.
Related note, this won't be the last of this discussion with that employee regarding this.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/life/2020/03/27/coronavirus-couple-flees-manhattan-have-baby-milwaukee/2924843001/
I’ve got mixed feelings about this story. If she were my daughter, I would be glad to have her out of harms way. But if she were my daughter I would be not happy that she is broadcasting her activities to the whole world. And her relatives moving to their place in Door County to accommodate her potentially strains healthcare in Sturgeon Bay. Plus she better be careful in those gas station rest rooms.
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It's been news here. New York City prople have been arriving at their Connecticut shoreline summer homes well ahead of summer obviously.
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Be grateful Evers is in charge.
Republican lawmakers plan to take up legislation to respond to health and unemployment needs of Wisconsin residents during the coronavirus outbreak in a couple of weeks, but Gov. Tony Evers says that could be too long to wait and he may move forward on his own on some measures.
No rush Reps. just cuz people are dyin'.
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Wisconsin company bucking the trend.
https://www.news8000.com/kwik-trip-to-give-26000-workers-bonuses-during-covid-19-battle/?fbclid=IwAR0uu-_RvqW7quPJusQU9iguKcZ8ECjkm9YDnAs3a-ftGTGlOrjoAh1bj5U
also known as Kwik Star...Not to be confused with Quiktrip, also known as QT.
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Be grateful Evers is in charge.
Republican lawmakers plan to take up legislation to respond to health and unemployment needs of Wisconsin residents during the coronavirus outbreak in a couple of weeks, but Gov. Tony Evers says that could be too long to wait and he may move forward on his own on some measures.
No rush Reps. just cuz people are dyin'.
The entire relationship between the two is just beyond toxic (in no small part because it's gerrymandered to hell). Evers trying to get them to pass a comprehensive including ventilators, then Rs complaining he already has that authority and should stop delaying. You can excuse him for being confused after they removed powers from him just because they lost an election...
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/life/2020/03/27/coronavirus-couple-flees-manhattan-have-baby-milwaukee/2924843001/
I’ve got mixed feelings about this story. If she were my daughter, I would be glad to have her out of harms way. But if she were my daughter I would be not happy that she is broadcasting her activities to the whole world. And her relatives moving to their place in Door County to accommodate her potentially strains healthcare in Sturgeon Bay. Plus she better be careful in those gas station rest rooms.
My mom is a full-time resident of Sturgeon Bay. She's in her 60s and diabetic. There is one hospital in all of Door County.
People need to stay in place. Not go to touristy areas without healthcare infrastructure.
This is selfish.
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Just heard my wife's aunt is now hospitalized with the virus in the Madison area.
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Just heard my wife's aunt is now hospitalized with the virus in the Madison area.
Wisconsin is going to see its peak soon. The hospitals are prepared however. Lots of ppe and been diverting healthcare employees from all over. Tons of new faces each week.
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Wisconsin is going to see its peak soon. The hospitals are prepared however. Lots of ppe and been diverting healthcare employees from all over. Tons of new faces each week.
Weeks at the soonest.
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Wisconsin is going to see its peak soon. The hospitals are prepared however. Lots of ppe and been diverting healthcare employees from all over. Tons of new faces each week.
Late April. About a week after Illinois peaks.
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Wisconsin is going to see its peak soon. The hospitals are prepared however. Lots of ppe and been diverting healthcare employees from all over. Tons of new faces each week.
Not close to the peak yet.
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Not close to the peak yet.
Define close. Our projected peak right now is in about 18 days. I think that's pretty close.
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Projected peak for Wisconsin.. was mid-May, now April 26.
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2020/03/30/new-report-states-predicted-viral-peak-is-april-26/
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Projected peak for Wisconsin.. was mid-May, now April 26.
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2020/03/30/new-report-states-predicted-viral-peak-is-april-26/
I read an article that said that peak will likely move up about a week. I'll try to find it.
Even if it's April 26th, that means we could slowly start re-opening businesses about 5/11 after two weeks of decreased cases. I'd sign up for that.
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I was in a discussion with someone affiliated with a major US hospital and said that we shouldn’t get overly obsessed with projected peaks. The models are super sensitive right now due to multiple assumptions. As such peak moves dramatically every day.
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Projected peak for Wisconsin.. was mid-May, now April 26.
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2020/03/30/new-report-states-predicted-viral-peak-is-april-26/
Wrong. The "peak" was on Feb 28 when we had 15 cases - soon to be zero.
Seriously, we / they have no clue when the peak will be simply because there still is no wide-scale testing. It's hard to make predictions based on data that we don't have.
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Wrong. The "peak" was on Feb 28 when we had 15 cases - soon to be zero.
Seriously, we / they have no clue when the peak will be simply because there still is no wide-scale testing. It's hard to make predictions based on data that we don't have.
Thanks for that opinion. I'll go off the medical practices were preparing for. Stockpiling and getting new staff orientated for April 17th.
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Thanks for that opinion. I'll go off the medical practices were preparing for. Stockpiling and getting new staff orientated for April 17th.
Your comment has nothing to do with what I said.
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Thanks for that opinion. I'll go off the medical practices were preparing for. Stockpiling and getting new staff orientated for April 17th.
Prepare to be disappointed.
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Nm
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Wisconsin needs to postpone this election.
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Wisconsin needs to postpone this election.
How about we total up the mail in ballots, see who is winning, then decide whether to postpone or not? 8-)
As an aside .. my village is up to 65% mail-in requested. April '19 turnout was 42%, although April '16 it was 72%.
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How about we total up the mail in ballots, see who is winning, then decide whether to postpone or not? 8-)
As an aside .. my village is up to 65% mail-in requested. April '19 turnout was 42%, although April '16 it was 72%.
Plus mail in voting ensures tractability.
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PSA: TODAY AT 5PM is the deadline to request a mail-in ballot:
https://myvote.wi.gov/en-US/VoteAbsentee
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PSA: TODAY AT 5PM is the deadline to request a mail-in ballot:
https://myvote.wi.gov/en-US/VoteAbsentee
Thank you for posting this and making it easy.
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Early voting at Zeilder on Broadway in Milwaukee was jammed packed today. Not great.
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I dropped our ballots off at our city hall on my way to work today
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Early voting at Zeilder on Broadway in Milwaukee was jammed packed today. Not great.
\
This is why mailing ballots to everyone is the way to go. Either mail it back or drop it off.
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PSA: TODAY AT 5PM is the deadline to request a mail-in ballot:
https://myvote.wi.gov/en-US/VoteAbsentee
UPDATE: The deadline has been extended to TOMORROW, Friday April 3rd, 5pm.
https://myvote.wi.gov/en-US/VoteAbsentee
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The state released their modeling today... they landed at a 3-7 week infection peak with a variance of 1100 (440-1500) deaths. It was based on the infection counts doubling every 3.4 days.
I looked at the numbers for this past week. The state 989 cases on 3/27, it doubled yesterday (1730). Milwaukee County was at 549 cases on 3/27, and it was just shy today (1023).
Whether this holds up in the coming weeks, I don't know. This whole thing has conditioned me to expect the worst. But, I'll take hope where I can find it, and I'm hoping we'll see some flattening here locally.
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The state released their modeling today... they landed at a 3-7 week infection peak with a variance of 1100 (440-1500) deaths. It was based on the infection counts doubling every 3.4 days.
I looked at the numbers for this past week. The state 989 cases on 3/27, it doubled yesterday (1730). Milwaukee County was at 549 cases on 3/27, and it was just shy today (1023).
Whether this holds up in the coming weeks, I don't know. This whole thing has conditioned me to expect the worst. But, I'll take hope where I can find it, and I'm hoping we'll see some flattening here locally.
It would flatten a lot more if we postponed the damn election.
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It would flatten a lot more if we postponed the damn election.
Evers wants an all absentee election. Reps. won't allow it.
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Evers wants an all absentee election. Reps. won't allow it.
Does he have the power to postpone it for a month and continue to negotiate?
Hoping for the best but it sure seems like we're going to have hundreds of thousands of people crammed into small spaces on Tuesday.
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Does he have the power to postpone it for a month and continue to negotiate?
Hoping for the best but it sure seems like we're going to have hundreds of thousands of people crammed into small spaces on Tuesday.
Evers said he doesn’t have the power to do it and called a special section for tomorrow. Reps. said no. They will not Meet tomorrow.
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3 days before the election he wants a special session? Did Evers finally wake up from his nap?
When I voted in person 4 weeks ago, the clerk was concerned. This was pre-stay at home edict. Why is he just deciding this is an issue now?
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3 days before the election he wants a special session? Did Evers finally wake up from his nap?
When I voted in person 4 weeks ago, the clerk was concerned. This was pre-stay at home edict. Why is he just deciding this is an issue now?
He’s been trying.
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Evers is a figurehead. He can’t even answer media question about a vetoed bill. He didn’t know anything about an open records request seeking his emails being denied.
They had weeks to work on this, and now Friday before Election Day, it’s supposed to be reacheduled just like that.
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I agree that Evers should have been more vocal about this weeks ago. I allso agree it isn't unreasonable to ask the Senate and Assembly to act on it now.
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Be grateful Evers is in charge.
Republican lawmakers plan to take up legislation to respond to health and unemployment needs of Wisconsin residents during the coronavirus outbreak in a couple of weeks, but Gov. Tony Evers says that could be too long to wait and he may move forward on his own on some measures.
No rush Reps. just cuz people are dyin'.
SMH...you are really something else
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If yall will get off your political high horses for 10 seconds. Hospitals are now setting up emergency tents all over. Even small towns like Burlington have set them up. The 14 hour shifts are at least going down as more medical help is transferred from clinics and other healthcare facilities.
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Evers couldn't find his ass, while looking the mirror, with either hand, hey?
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Evers couldn't find his ass, while looking the mirror, with either hand, hey?
Or spell it if ya spot him the first and the last letters
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State wide testing may be coming for everyone sooner rather then later. All those who come back negative will be allowed back out, while those who test positive will be forced into quarantine.
I do not know the specifics of how they will test, or how they will enforce, keep the extent of it. But I was testing procedures today.
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State wide testing may be coming for everyone sooner rather then later. All those who come back negative will be allowed back out, while those who test positive will be forced into quarantine.
I do not know the specifics of how they will test, or how they will enforce, keep the extent of it. But I was testing procedures today.
We already have it.
Trump said on March 6th that anyone who wants a test can get a test.
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State wide testing may be coming for everyone sooner rather then later. All those who come back negative will be allowed back out, while those who test positive will be forced into quarantine.
I do not know the specifics of how they will test, or how they will enforce, keep the extent of it. But I was testing procedures today.
Source?
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Source?
Uh, he's in the medical field amd was testing protocold today. Do you even read, or just go right to negative?
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Uh, he's in the medical field amd was testing protocold today. Do you even read, or just go right to negative?
I'm in the medical field.
I didn't say anything negative. I simply asked for where the information behind his statement came from. I think that's a fair question.
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State wide testing may be coming for everyone sooner rather then later. All those who come back negative will be allowed back out, while those who test positive will be forced into quarantine.
I do not know the specifics of how they will test, or how they will enforce, keep the extent of it. But I was testing procedures today.
Do we have the testing reagents to do that? I'm... skeptical that we have the capacity to do this.
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Uh, he's in the medical field amd was testing protocold today. Do you even read, or just go right to negative?
We were told exactly a month ago by someone a lot higher on the food chain that anybody who wanted a test could get one. You believed it. It was a lie. Just a couple days ago you were saying that anyone in the Racine area could get a test if they wanted one. Of course that was a lie. Your track record of believing these lies has been consistent. So of course you believe this.
But, color me skeptical.
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Just got off, so right before I go to bed for a couple hours ill try to answer this as much as I can, which truly won't be much. I'm not very high up the chain.
I'm in the medical field.
I didn't say anything negative. I simply asked for where the information behind his statement came from. I think that's a fair question.
We were told to begin doing testing protocols for a state wide testing. From what I have overheard/rumors going around they are going to test anyone who will be in the workforce.
Do we have the testing reagents to do that? I'm... skeptical that we have the capacity to do this.
Honestly, not sure on this. This is not the same test that we have been using so far. I will say that our hospital, and a couple others my friends have been shifted to, we don't currently have any shortages of anything that tons of people are posting about online. We are however prepping for a much larger amount of people coming in. If you have driven by any hospitals you've probably seen the amount of tents being setup outside.
I also am pretty skeptical of how this testing will be implemented. There was a rumor of people going door to door to do the testing, but that seems logistically pretty crazy to me.
We were told exactly a month ago by someone a lot higher on the food chain that anybody who wanted a test could get one. You believed it. It was a lie. Just a couple days ago you were saying that anyone in the Racine area could get a test if they wanted one. Of course that was a lie. Your track record of believing these lies has been consistent. So of course you believe this.
But, color me skeptical.
Again, we don't have a shortage of tests right now to my knowledge. Do we have one for everyone is the state? Doubtful. We also don't need to be testing everyone in the state if we are all going to stay at home. Most of covid is mild, and another rumor going around is a lot more people have it then we think. It's just not presenting.
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We were told exactly a month ago by someone a lot higher on the food chain that anybody who wanted a test could get one. You believed it. It was a lie. Just a couple days ago you were saying that anyone in the Racine area could get a test if they wanted one. Of course that was a lie. Your track record of believing these lies has been consistent. So of course you believe this.
But, color me skeptical.
So you are calling unleash a liar. Got it.
If you are that dense that you are missing sarcasm when its slapping you in the face, well, it just shows how much you miss on everything else too.
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So you are calling unleash a liar. Got it.
If you are that dense that you are missing sarcasm when its slapping you in the face, well, it just shows how much you miss on everything else too.
Of course, I did not call Unleash a liar. I said I was skeptical.
Speaking of dense, I was not the one who believed everyone could get a test even though hospitals and doctors said it wasn't true. You believed it with zero evidence. Kinda the definition of "rube".
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Of course, I did not call Unleash a liar. I said I was skeptical.
Speaking of dense, I was not the one who believed everyone could get a test even though hospitals and doctors said it wasn't true. You believed it with zero evidence. Kinda the definition of "rube".
You never did drive down to pleasant prairie then, is what you are saying.
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Let’s be honest...it’s not that pleasant.
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You never did drive down to pleasant prairie then, is what you are saying.
You've learned your lesson well. If you get caught in a lie, repeat the lie.
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Assembly Republicans are calling on Gov. Tony Evers to allow in-person services for Easter and Passover...yikes!
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/05/wisconsin-assembly-gop-calls-person-easter-passover-services/2950830001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/05/wisconsin-assembly-gop-calls-person-easter-passover-services/2950830001/)
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Assembly Republicans are calling on Gov. Tony Evers to allow in-person services for Easter and Passover...yikes!
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/05/wisconsin-assembly-gop-calls-person-easter-passover-services/2950830001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/05/wisconsin-assembly-gop-calls-person-easter-passover-services/2950830001/)
So dumb.
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Assembly Republicans are calling on Gov. Tony Evers to allow in-person services for Easter and Passover...yikes!
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/05/wisconsin-assembly-gop-calls-person-easter-passover-services/2950830001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/05/wisconsin-assembly-gop-calls-person-easter-passover-services/2950830001/)
Between this and the election moving forward, I feel like Wisconsin could set back a lot of progress made over the last few weeks.
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I understand the impulse and the symbolism. I also understand the science. Stay home.
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Sounds like the election will go forward tomorrow. Maddening.
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Sounds like the election will go forward tomorrow. Maddening.
No worries, Maggie Gau just suspended tomorrow’s vote.
Then told her “boss” he can resume his nap and she’ll wake him next time he needs to be propped up for an announcement.
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The right decision
I wonder why Vos and Co hate the idea of a high turnout election.
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https://twitter.com/NicholsUprising/status/1247221232099119107
BREAKING: Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers has issued an order shutting down Tuesday's election. It will be delayed until June 9.
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The right decision
I wonder why Vos and Co hate the idea of a high turnout election.
A decision he swore he didn’t have power to make himself.
This will go to state Supreme Court
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A decision he swore he didn’t have power to make himself.
This will go to state Supreme Court
Ok...and that still achieves the correct objective - a delay to keep people from spreading COVID-19.
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The Court could rule today. And Evers could ignore it and just tell people to stay home.
Now you have a mess.
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And you'll have municipalities, like Milwaukee, who will refuse to hold the election nor certify/report election data until June 9th.
.. I kinda wonder if that was Evers' gambit all along. Wait until <24 hours until the election to reduce (not remove) the efficacy of legal action.
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No worries, Maggie Gau just suspended tomorrow’s vote.
Then told her “boss” he can resume his nap and she’ll wake him next time he needs to be propped up for an announcement.
So Maggie Gau is in charge of Tony Evers.
Shocking revelation. Where'd you hear about this conspiracy theory? Was it Levin or McKenna?
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A decision he swore he didn’t have power to make himself.
This will go to state Supreme Court
No one wants their finger on the trigger. This happened with vent purchases too, with Evers wanting the legislature to do something and the legislature wanting an EO. Both boil down to the legislature playing chicken with this and daring him to act.
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Election is back on.
4-2 split, with Kelly not voting.
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nm
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GOP wants golf courses open? Rich old white men gonna do what they do.
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Election is back on.
4-2 split, with Kelly not voting.
Rs are fightin' hard to infect people.
But we know what it is about. Drive down voter numbers. Same old. Same old.
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GOP wants golf courses open? Rich old white men gonna do what they do.
::)
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GOP wants golf courses open? Rich old white men gonna do what they do.
There’s no reason to have them closed.
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Rs are fightin' hard to infect people.
But we know what it is about. Drive down voter numbers. Same old. Same old.
Or the governor doesn't have the right to move an election the day before its scheduled, less than a week after saying the he didnt have the power to do so.
Imagine the outrage if Scott Walker tried to pull a stunt like Evers did. Occupation Part II.
This should have been addressed 3 weeks ago, when stay at home was first announced. Instead, we get political pissing by both sides in the days prior to an election.
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This should have been addressed 3 weeks ago, when stay at home was first announced. Instead, we get political pissing by both sides in the days prior to an election.
It's a bad look by both sides.
Dear Wisconsin: You're making international news - and not in a good way.
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Democracy was a fun thought experiment.
Scummy behavior to disenfranchise voters on a mass scale... Including those that had requested their absentee ballot on time...
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It's a bad look by both sides.
Dear Wisconsin: You're making international news - and not in a good way.
There's nothing worse than I'm going show you your doucheyness by being twice as douchebagy.
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Or the governor doesn't have the right to move an election the day before its scheduled, less than a week after saying the he didnt have the power to do so.
Imagine the outrage if Scott Walker tried to pull a stunt like Evers did. Occupation Part II.
This should have been addressed 3 weeks ago, when stay at home was first announced. Instead, we get political pissing by both sides in the days prior to an election.
While I agree, it should have happened 3 weeks ago, there would have been plenty of people who would have freaked out and said, "That's three weeks away, this will be over by then! Let's just see what happens with this lockdown!"
Feel me?
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Let’s be honest...it’s not that pleasant.
There is, however, a good deal of prairie.
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While I agree, it should have happened 3 weeks ago, there would have been plenty of people who would have freaked out and said, "That's three weeks away, this will be over by then! Let's just see what happens with this lockdown!"
Feel me?
(NF) evers trying to do this at the last possible minute is the chaos. Mark Belling could have howled for 3 weeks, but it would have been the right thing to do. Waiting made it partisan regardless.
If Evers did this with the stay at home order, it would have been just like Ohio and the other states that moved their primary.
I did early voting 4 weeks ago and our clerk was worried then. I also knew that this would be a skitshow, so took the steps to vote early.
I saw something today, based on absentee requests alone, this would be the largest turnout for a spring election in WI history. (On twitta, so no linky. Might have been a JS reporter but dont quote me. )
*(no feel)
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(NF) evers trying to do this at the last possible minute is the chaos. Mark Belling could have howled for 3 weeks, but it would have been the right thing to do. Waiting made it partisan regardless.
If Evers did this with the stay at home order, it would have been just like Ohio and the other states that moved their primary.
I did early voting 4 weeks ago and our clerk was worried then. I also knew that this would be a skitshow, so took the steps to vote early.
I saw something today, based on absentee requests alone, this would be the largest turnout for a spring election in WI history. (On twitta, so no linky. Might have been a JS reporter but dont quote me. )
*(no feel)
Ha, what a crock. There are 5 polling places in Milwaukee, and usually there are 180. But yes, lets have an election.
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Ha, what a crock. There are 5 polling places in Milwaukee, and usually there are 180. But yes, lets have an election.
Did you not see where i said this should have been decided 3 weeks ago?
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Did you not see where i said this should have been decided 3 weeks ago?
Would have been the same result.
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I mean, it could have been done the right way this past Saturday but the legislature refused to consider it.
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The idea that it ought to be hard to cancel an election by executive order is, objectively, a good thing.
The idea that the legislature looked at all of the objectively terrible outcomes from a public health and electoral administration perspective and did figured it would be best to force those objectively terrible outcomes to occur is remarkably, unfathomably, stupid.
The government in Wisconsin is broken, darn near irrevocably broken. Just like there ought to be backlash against the figures who whistled this country past the graveyard and into actions that hastened and worsened the spread of the virus in January and February, there ought to be blistering consequences against the people who have weighed their personal political gain against the lives hanging on forcing this vote and opted for political gain.
I won't hold my breath though.
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The idea that it ought to be hard to cancel an election by executive order is, objectively, a good thing.
The idea that the legislature looked at all of the objectively terrible outcomes from a public health and electoral administration perspective and did figured it would be best to force those objectively terrible outcomes to occur is remarkably, unfathomably, stupid.
The government in Wisconsin is broken, darn near irrevocably broken. Just like there ought to be backlash against the figures who whistled this country past the graveyard and into actions that hastened and worsened the spread of the virus in January and February, there ought to be blistering consequences against the people who have weighed their personal political gain against the lives hanging on forcing this vote and opted for political gain.
I won't hold my breath though.
I would trade the government in Illinois for it any day. As a matter of fact, I just did.
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I would trade the government in Illinois for it any day. As a matter of fact, I just did.
I'm not sure you upgraded. And yes, I am very aware of the state of politics in Illinois.
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Anyone have any turnout reports or how the election is proceeding in general?
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Anyone have any turnout reports or how the election is proceeding in general?
I assume you've seen the lines in Milwaukee? They are all over the news and twitter.
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The idea that the legislative and executive branches couldn't figure out how to postpone the election under these circumstances displays that there is a fundamentally broken relationship in Madison. I am VERY sympathetic to the argument that government powers are enumerated and limited and the governor shouldn't be able to reach out and grab rights not granted to the office even under times of crisis. On the other hand, the idea that the legislature forced the governor's hand betrays exactly where their priorities lie.
Spoiler: It has nothing to do with the well-being of Wisconsin citizens.
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The idea that it ought to be hard to cancel an election by executive order is, objectively, a good thing.
The idea that the legislature looked at all of the objectively terrible outcomes from a public health and electoral administration perspective and did figured it would be best to force those objectively terrible outcomes to occur is remarkably, unfathomably, stupid.
The government in Wisconsin is broken, darn near irrevocably broken. Just like there ought to be backlash against the figures who whistled this country past the graveyard and into actions that hastened and worsened the spread of the virus in January and February, there ought to be blistering consequences against the people who have weighed their personal political gain against the lives hanging on forcing this vote and opted for political gain.
I won't hold my breath though.
There's no coming back from this.
<BanhammerRant>
They just further institutionalized the concept of who should get to vote and what hurdles they should have to overcome. This sham of an election will further embed a majority on the WI SC, and the gerrymandered nature of this state will only get resolved if removed from politicians' hands. The fact that SCOTUS was content to let the world burn only further reinforces. That duly requested unprocessed absentee ballots - including yours truly weeks ago - will not be allowed to be submitted and counted is egregious and wrong. The fact that duly submitted ballots without a witness signature during a period of time where it was allowed by the courts cannot be revised or recast should be offensive to everyone.
The hell of it is, the results of this election don't affect my day-to-day life - it's not like my vote is particularly within my self interests. But it matters to a whole hell of a lot of people that will either not get the chance OR will need to risk not only their livelihoods, but their immediate communities. I'm not religious and I wouldn't tell you I have a strong moral compass. But this is just wrong. If you are not offended by all of this... I hope they offer virtual confession services through your place of worship. And let me be clear - this is the first, and likely only, time that a person in my socioeconomic class will feel marginalized in my lifetime; it is only a fraction of what other groups go through on a daily basis.
I am and have been a political pragmatist and generally more moderate, though I've admittedly moved left economically over the years. I've voted for Republicans and Democrats in the decade-plus I've been able to. I'm generally interested in results than political posturing and grandstanding - ultimately the goal is to make people's lives better, right? But it all feels a lot different today than it did waking up yesterday. A lot of people are culpable with how we've gotten to this point on every side of the spectrum, and including us as citizens. We've allowed people to stake out these immoral positions as the ones they'll start negotiating from, so that anything we end up with is just slightly less immoral. And we've let it erode at norms and decency and a belief in any sort of common ground. \
Blow all of it to hell.
</BanhammerRant>
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I would trade the government in Illinois for it any day. As a matter of fact, I just did.
Disagree. Coronavirus response is exhibit #1.
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I assume you've seen the lines in Milwaukee? They are all over the news and twitter.
Just one more attempt at blatant voter suppression. Nothing more.
5 polling places in a city of 500,000 people. Why not just re-institute poll taxes to keep Blacks from voting?
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I assume you've seen the lines in Milwaukee? They are all over the news and twitter.
All according to plan. One of Trump's quote that didn't get the coverage it deserved during the stimulus debate was outright admitting that if they made it easier to vote, Republicans would "never be elected again". Voter suppression has been an out-in-the-open tactic for some time now.
Trump says Republicans would ‘never’ be elected again if it was easier to vote
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republican-party-voting-reform-coronavirus
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<BanhammerRant>
</BanhammerRant>
Quite the opposite. That may have been the least political rant about the broken state of the political system (in WI and nationally) that I've seen here. I suspect there are MANY that agree with you, even some that argue for one political side or the other.
Anyhow - hope everyone in WI that wants to vote gets a chance...
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In an effort to protect the public, attorneys, court staff, and judges from the health risks associated with COVID-19, the Wisconsin courts have issued orders temporarily suspending in-person proceedings statewide, with certain limited exceptions.
Yes, those are the same Wisconsin courts that just refused to allow Gov. Tony Evers to postpone today's primary election because of the pandemic.
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In an effort to protect the public, attorneys, court staff, and judges from the health risks associated with COVID-19, the Wisconsin courts have issued orders temporarily suspending in-person proceedings statewide, with certain limited exceptions.
Yes, those are the same Wisconsin courts that just refused to allow Gov. Tony Evers to postpone today's primary election because of the pandemic.
Where do you see this?
Anyway, apparently it is taking three hours for people to get through the voting lines in Green Bay. Absolutely insane.
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Where do you see this?
Anyway, apparently it is taking three hours for people to get through the voting lines in Green Bay. Absolutely insane.
2 polling places in all of GB
A travesty
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Where do you see this?
Anyway, apparently it is taking three hours for people to get through the voting lines in Green Bay. Absolutely insane.
https://wicourts.gov/
There's a link/tab for COVID19 related orders. Every county has one. We're functionally have shut down the court system and I'm not expecting it to reopen until June at the EARLIEST.
Let's just say for those of us who do litigation, it's made things... interesting.
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Sorry I misread the post. I though he meant a that local courts have shut down voting.
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You've got today's the Onion!
Wisconsin Primary Voters Receive ‘I Voted’ Gravestones
https://politics.theonion.com/wisconsin-primary-voters-receive-i-voted-gravestones-1842729790
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Where do you see this?
Anyway, apparently it is taking three hours for people to get through the voting lines in Green Bay. Absolutely insane.
The line at Riverside HS in Milwaukee - one of only 5 polling places in the city - extends for blocks and blocks.
Franklin - 87% white (pop. 35,000) has 5 polling places.
Glendale - 80% white (pop. 13,000) has 5 polling places.
Milwaukee - 35% white (pop. 590,000) has 5 polling places.
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The line at Riverside HS in Milwaukee - one of only 5 polling places in the city - extends for blocks and blocks.
Franklin - 87% white (pop. 35,000) has 5 polling places.
Glendale - 80% white (pop. 13,000) has 5 polling places.
Milwaukee - 35% white (pop. 590,000) has 5 polling places.
You do realize that each municipality staffs and sets up their own polling stations. Not the governor, not the legislature, not the county. Milwaukee chose to go this route. Milwaukee alone.
Plus, the National Guard was activated to assist with polling places. I guess Milwaukee chose not to ask for assistance.
Waukesha is just as dumb.
Due to ADA rules, many polling places are at nursing homes or assisted living facilities, which obviously can't be used. This was known weeks ago.
Yet, somehow, no issues in Madison, with limited polling places. In fact, without having school in session, the voting area isnt conflicting with school, so they are able to spread out the voting area even further in the gyms or cafeterias. See Toki middle school in Madison.
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Plus, the National Guard was activated to assist with polling places. I guess Milwaukee chose not to ask for assistance.
Unless he's completely lying, they did- https://twitter.com/MollyBeck/status/1245475428086710273
And also this- https://twitter.com/MSpicuzzaMJS/status/1247559350685765632
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Unless he's completely lying, they did- https://twitter.com/MollyBeck/status/1245475428086710273
And also this- https://twitter.com/MSpicuzzaMJS/status/1247559350685765632
Hadn't seen that.
My other points are valid.
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Hadn't seen that.
My other points are valid.
Other than the systematic marginalization of nonwhite voters, yeah, good points.
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Other than the systematic marginalization of nonwhite voters, yeah, good points.
Notice, again, that there are no issues in Madison. 2nd largest African American community in the state.
Milwaukee is just incompetent. Likely planned, so as to throw the results of the election in to dispute. (That's me channelling my inner TSmith for partisan and stupid ideas.)
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Hadn't seen that.
My other points are valid.
What other points? Your entire point is that Milwaukee has too few polling stations based on the fact they never asked for National Guard assistance. But they did ask. And they were only given a response yesterday.
How are you supposed to help plan for something if you don't get a response when you need one? It almost makes you wonder...
And if your larger point is that Milwaukee is bad at this stuff in general, well OK. That still isn't right for the voters in Milwaukee.
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Notice, again, that there are no issues in Madison. 2nd largest African American community in the state.
Milwaukee is just incompetent. Likely planned, so as to throw the results of the election in to dispute. (That's me channelling my inner TSmith for partisan and stupid ideas.)
Oh you poor, poor snowflake.
They say it out loud for bog's sake.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/21/trump-adviser-republicans-voter-suppression
Top Trump adviser: Republicans have 'always' relied on voter suppression
"One of Donald Trump’s top re-election advisers told influential Republicans in swing state Wisconsin that the party has “traditionally” relied on voter suppression to compete in battleground states, according to an audio recording of a private event. The adviser said later that his remarks referred to frequent and false accusations that Republicans employ such tactics.
But the report emerged just days after news that a conservative group is forcing Wisconsin to purge upwards of 230,000 people from state voter rolls more than a year earlier than planned, a move that would disproportionately affect Democrats before the 2020 election."
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/accidental-republican-candor-about-voter-id-laws
Accidental Republican candor about voter-ID laws
"Jim DeMint, the former South Carolina senator and Tea Party firebrand who is now the president of the Heritage Foundation, became the latest in a string of conservatives to admit that restrictive voting laws such as voter ID requirements are an attempt to help Republicans win elections, telling a St. Louis radio host yesterday that voter ID laws help elect “more conservative candidates.”
<snip?
But DeMint then turned to voter-ID laws. “t’s something we’re working on all over the country because in the states where they do have voter ID laws you’ve seen, actually, elections begin to change towards more conservative candidates,” he said.
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Indeed .. I would like to see how Milwaukee came up with the number 5 for polling places. Is it .. the Mayor? Some .. Milwaukee Election Commission?
Was it that they only had enough people to staff 5 stations? How are the little villages able to staff 3-4 locations, but 600k Milwaukee can only scrape together enough for 5?
What happens when the line is 3 hours long for the 8pm close?
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Indeed .. I would like to see how Milwaukee came up with the number 5 for polling places. Is it .. the Mayor? Some .. Milwaukee Election Commission?
Was it that they only had enough people to staff 5 stations? How are the little villages able to staff 3-4 locations, but 600k Milwaukee can only scrape together enough for 5?
What happens when the line is 3 hours long for the 8pm close?
WE VOTE LATE, ITS NOT LIKE ANYONE HAS TO GO TO WORK!!!
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Apparently 15,000 people in Milwaukee alone who requested an absentee ballot did not receive one.
I hope people like waiting outside in a thunderstorm for 3 hours to go catch covid 19 while voting!
Good job Wisconsin. The conservatives knocked this one out of the park.
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Damnit.
I was thinking it was a nice 72 and sunny day to have people standing outside for 3 hours to vote.
Aaaaaaand now it's hailing. Huge downpour.
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How did the Wisconsin Supreme Court meet to decide this?
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(https://cdn.talkingpointsmemo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Screen-Shot-2020-04-07-at-4.59.32-PM-804x503.png)
WI speaker of the house at a polling site. Says it’s perfectly safe.
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https://twitter.com/DanRShafer/status/1247614027288784896?s=19
Video
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Apparently 15,000 people in Milwaukee alone who requested an absentee ballot did not receive one.
I hope people like waiting outside in a thunderstorm for 3 hours to go catch covid 19 while voting!
Good job Wisconsin. The conservatives knocked this one out of the park.
You mean they shoved it up our @ss*s.
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Indeed .. I would like to see how Milwaukee came up with the number 5 for polling places. Is it .. the Mayor? Some .. Milwaukee Election Commission?
Was it that they only had enough people to staff 5 stations? How are the little villages able to staff 3-4 locations, but 600k Milwaukee can only scrape together enough for 5?
What happens when the line is 3 hours long for the 8pm close?
Article that I saw that yes, it was because poll workers refused to show up due to the risk. (Note: that's what I read, but I don't know if that has been verified.)
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So nurses can’t get enough PPE, but Vos can.
I can’t find the words for my contempt.
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So nurses can’t get enough PPE, but Vos can.
I can’t find the words for my contempt.
There aren't any shortages of ppe in any hospital I've worked at nor have any friends said any about theirs yet.
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Still feeling like you upgraded governments by leaving IL, chick? :P
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https://twitter.com/DanRShafer/status/1247614027288784896?s=19
Video
This is amazingly amusing. Thanks for sharing.
(https://glibertarians.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Remain-Calm.gif)
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The AP reporter said that was a staged shot and he refused to come anywhere near voters or volunteers. He also refused to go to any Milwaukee sites.
Good stuff. Very safe.
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This is amazingly amusing. Thanks for sharing.
(https://glibertarians.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Remain-Calm.gif)
must have run out of coffee?
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The AP reporter said that was a staged shot and he refused to come anywhere near voters or volunteers. He also refused to go to any Milwaukee sites.
Good stuff. Very safe.
Pretty sure Vos is scared of Milwaukee on even a good day.
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There aren't any shortages of ppe in any hospital I've worked at nor have any friends said any about theirs yet.
So your saying that doctors and nurses are lying?
Interesting.
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So your saying that doctors and nurses are lying?
Interesting.
Not what he said.
Try to stop being insufferable please.
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Hey, Scoop lawyers: What's the over/under on voter lawsuits that will be filed after today?
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Not what he said.
Try to stop being insufferable please.
thank you!!
sometimes, i could almost kiss you on the lips
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Still feeling like you upgraded governments by leaving IL, chick? :P
Without a doubt.
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Without a doubt.
I couldn’t agree more Chick. Our guy in Illinois is as bad as it gets in just about every way imaginable.
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https://twitter.com/DanRShafer/status/1247614027288784896?s=19
Video
(https://stockhead.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/giphy-9.gif)
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Some people thing today's voting debacle is a feature, not a bug.
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Hey, Scoop lawyers: What's the over/under on voter lawsuits that will be filed after today?
If you could purchase futures on that type of bet, I’d be all in on less than three days post official count. And filed in Dane County.
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If you could purchase futures on that type of bet, I’d be all in on less than three days post official count. And filed in Dane County.
Is there standing if the case was adjudicated by the Supreme Court?
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If you could purchase futures on that type of bet, I’d be all in on less than three days post official count. And filed in Dane County.
Dane County .. wouldn't that imply state court remedies? I'd imagine there'd be several in Federal court, too.
I mean .. there are tens of thousands of people who properly asked for an absentee ballot and never received it.
Not to mention, people who requested one and then voted in person -- like Chris Abele. There'll be thousands of people who had two ballots issued in their name.
What's the latin term for that, something like clusterfck maximus?
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.
I mean .. there are tens of thousands of people who properly asked for an absentee ballot and never received it.
So after they requested and didn’t receive a ballot, they were all helpless to do anything else from that point on? In person absentee voting started as early as March 16th and ended April 3rd. I don’t think there’s a municipality in the state where every voter didn’t have at least two weeks.
And people just sat on their hands and didn’t demand to know where the ballot they requested was?
If you requested a ballot and didn’t do a damn other thing than that, you didn’t really care much anyway.
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Is there standing if the case was adjudicated by the Supreme Court?
Not when Dane Co judges can get involved. They're the 9th Circuit of the WI judiciary.
Standing? We don't need no stinkin standing.
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So after they requested and didn’t receive a ballot, they were all helpless to do anything else from that point on? In person absentee voting started as early as March 16th and ended April 3rd. I don’t think there’s a municipality in the state where every voter didn’t have at least two weeks.
And people just sat on their hands and didn’t demand to know where the ballot they requested was?
If you requested a ballot and didn’t do a damn other thing than that, you didn’t really care much anyway.
Very much disagree. Anyone who requests a ballot, whether online, by mail, or in person cares exactly the same. They want to vote, full stop, the end.
There are municipalities that were completely swamped and just did not get the ballots out in time. My village pulled in extra people, working 11 hour days, but not every muni was able to execute that type of effort. Not to mention, the USPS getting the ballots in mailboxes by today. -- There's a report from Fox Point that a tray of 150+ ballots, delivered to USPS was returned to Village Hall for no reason.
So indeed, we're left with people who requested but the munis couldn't execute quickly enough.
And .. there are people who are "absentee" in the truest sense, they are out of town or disabled, unable to go in-person. If they got their request in 20 days or 1 minute before the deadline, they all have the expectation of reception.
In the end, there are specific instructions for voters, which they followed properly, but the government failed to execute.
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Very much disagree. Anyone who requests a ballot, whether online, by mail, or in person cares exactly the same. They want to vote, full stop, the end.
There are municipalities that were completely swamped and just did not get the ballots out in time. My village pulled in extra people, working 11 hour days, but not every muni was able to execute that type of effort. Not to mention, the USPS getting the ballots in mailboxes by today. -- There's a report from Fox Point that a tray of 150+ ballots, delivered to USPS was returned to Village Hall for no reason.
So indeed, we're left with people who requested but the munis couldn't execute quickly enough.
And .. there are people who are "absentee" in the truest sense, they are out of town or disabled, unable to go in-person. If they got their request in 20 days or 1 minute before the deadline, they all have the expectation of reception.
In the end, there are specific instructions for voters, which they followed properly, but the government failed to execute.
Agrred, most
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Very much disagree. Anyone who requests a ballot, whether online, by mail, or in person cares exactly the same. They want to vote, full stop, the end.
There are municipalities that were completely swamped and just did not get the ballots out in time. My village pulled in extra people, working 11 hour days, but not every muni was able to execute that type of effort. Not to mention, the USPS getting the ballots in mailboxes by today. -- There's a report from Fox Point that a tray of 150+ ballots, delivered to USPS was returned to Village Hall for no reason.
So indeed, we're left with people who requested but the munis couldn't execute quickly enough.
And .. there are people who are "absentee" in the truest sense, they are out of town or disabled, unable to go in-person. If they got their request in 20 days or 1 minute before the deadline, they all have the expectation of reception.
In the end, there are specific instructions for voters, which they followed properly, but the government failed to execute.
Agree. I received mine five days before my wife and we requested them a day apart. Between swamped municipalities and the oddness of the USPS, the system broke down for too many.
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Not what he said.
Try to stop being insufferable please.
We know there are shortages of PPE. Anecdotal evidence that differs proves nothing.
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Very much disagree. Anyone who requests a ballot, whether online, by mail, or in person cares exactly the same. They want to vote, full stop, the end.
There are municipalities that were completely swamped and just did not get the ballots out in time. My village pulled in extra people, working 11 hour days, but not every muni was able to execute that type of effort. Not to mention, the USPS getting the ballots in mailboxes by today. -- There's a report from Fox Point that a tray of 150+ ballots, delivered to USPS was returned to Village Hall for no reason.
So indeed, we're left with people who requested but the munis couldn't execute quickly enough.
And .. there are people who are "absentee" in the truest sense, they are out of town or disabled, unable to go in-person. If they got their request in 20 days or 1 minute before the deadline, they all have the expectation of reception.
In the end, there are specific instructions for voters, which they followed properly, but the government failed to execute.
I know, personal responsibility is a lost virtue these days. The govt, failed, so that’s that. Now you get to be a victim.
For those truly absentee- out of state, I feel badly for them. But that’s a tiny minority in every election. The thousands had plenty of time to do something other than sit on their hands and complain. You find a way to get it done if it truly is important to you.
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I know, personal responsibility is a lost virtue these days. The govt, failed, so that’s that. Now you get to be a victim.
For those truly absentee- out of state, I feel badly for them. But that’s a tiny minority in every election. The thousands had plenty of time to do something other than sit on their hands and complain. You find a way to get it done if it truly is important to you.
Why would they when national leaders were downplaying it for the past several weeks and months?
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Good news is that the president of a local health system was on TV today saying that Wisconsin should have enough PPE and hospital capacity to manage the peak, which is projected for next week. He also said that we have to hit social isolation very hard between now and April 24 to have any thought of loosening stay at home after then. But overall seemed pretty optimistic that we have avoided a New York like scenario.
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I couldn’t agree more Chick. Our guy in Illinois is as bad as it gets in just about every way imaginable.
Yep. Wisconsin isn't any more corrupt than Illinois (just leaning in the opposite direction, perhaps), but at least it isn't teetering on the edge of fiscal collapse.
Plus cheese. And beer.
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I know, personal responsibility is a lost virtue these days. The govt, failed, so that’s that. Now you get to be a victim.
For those truly absentee- out of state, I feel badly for them. But that’s a tiny minority in every election. The thousands had plenty of time to do something other than sit on their hands and complain. You find a way to get it done if it truly is important to you.
Bahahhahahahahhahaha
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I know, personal responsibility is a lost virtue these days. The govt, failed, so that’s that. Now you get to be a victim.
Good lord. Stop your nonsense.
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We know there are shortages of PPE. Anecdotal evidence that differs proves nothing.
There are ppe shortages in states and cities where they were hit the hardest (As well as improperly managing the ppe)
Wisconsin does not have any of these shortages in hospitals.
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There are ppe shortages in states and cities where they were hit the hardest (As well as improperly managing the ppe)
Wisconsin does not have any of these shortages in hospitals.
Yep. And as I said above, this was echoed by the President of a local heath system this morning.
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Is "You [anesthesiologist] get 1 N95/day" a PPE shortage?
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We know there are shortages of PPE. Anecdotal evidence that differs proves nothing.
It proves that there are some places that do not have a shortage. It's a data point. There's nothing wrong with providing additional data points. And there's nothing limiting people to posting only negative data points.
For the record, I know many of our clients are struggling to get enough PPE.
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I know, personal responsibility is a lost virtue these days. The govt, failed, so that’s that. Now you get to be a victim.
For those truly absentee- out of state, I feel badly for them. But that’s a tiny minority in every election. The thousands had plenty of time to do something other than sit on their hands and complain. You find a way to get it done if it truly is important to you.
So .. you're saying it wasn't "truly important" to people who properly requested an absentee ballot?
I'm as anti-victimology as the next guy, but that's over the top. You request a ballot, you deserve one, full stop.
We did away with "some people need to do extra things to get a ballot" about 60 years ago.
Bottom line .. this required flexibility, the GOP fought it for their advantage, the judicial system voted in lock-step with their political persuasions, and now we'll have many completely legitimate lawsuits because voters were disenfranchised through no fault of their own.
Paint them as "complainers" all you want.
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Bottom line .. this required flexibility, the GOP fought it for their advantage, the judicial system voted in lock-step with their political persuasions, and now we'll have many completely legitimate lawsuits because voters were disenfranchised through no fault of their own.
[/quote]
And I'll leave this here.
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1247660220349849601?s=20
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Good news is that the president of a local health system was on TV today saying that Wisconsin should have enough PPE and hospital capacity to manage the peak, which is projected for next week. He also said that we have to hit social isolation very hard between now and April 24 to have any thought of loosening stay at home after then. But overall seemed pretty optimistic that we have avoided a New York like scenario.
This is where most of my frustration comes from regarding in-person voting yesterday (as well as feeling for anyone that gets sick due to it). We are hopefully trending in the right direction based on the measures taken the last few weeks. Did we just undo a lot of it?
However, if there isn’t a spike of positive cases in the next 14 days, maybe it shows we continue to be on a good trend. Granted, I hope there was a ton of caution being taken at those locations.
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This is where most of my frustration comes from regarding in-person voting yesterday (as well as feeling for anyone that gets sick due to it). We are hopefully trending in the right direction based on the measures taken the last few weeks. Did we just undo a lot of it?
He was asked this question specifically, and pretty much dodged it saying "we will see."
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This is where most of my frustration comes from regarding in-person voting yesterday (as well as feeling for anyone that gets sick due to it). We are hopefully trending in the right direction based on the measures taken the last few weeks. Did we just undo a lot of it?
However, if there isn’t a spike of positive cases in the next 14 days, maybe it shows we continue to be on a good trend. Granted, I hope there was a ton of caution being taken at those locations.
There were a ton of precautions at my polling place - it was expertly done. That's not the point (and I know not the point you were trying to make).
I don't know who said it, so I can't credit them, but the amount of people that will get sick because of in person voting will not be zero. That is unacceptable. The amount of people that will die because of in person voting will likely not be zero. That is abjectly reprehensible.
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My wife's aunt (aunt-in-law?) that had been hospitalized near Madison last week died yesterday. The only person I knew so far 1st hand that had the virus.
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There are ppe shortages in states and cities where they were hit the hardest (As well as improperly managing the ppe)
Wisconsin does not have any of these shortages in hospitals.
Unleash where are you getting this from? My hospital has a PPE shortage. This is bogus. it depends on your definition of PPE. It's also important to understand what PPE was like before the pandemic. prepandemic, if I was seeing a patient with a highly dangerous and infectious disease, I would change gown and mask every time i left the room. This is considered best practice in case the PPE is soiled. Due to lack of PPE, this was not and is not currently possible. I started out with one N95 and one gown. Many hospital workers are in the same boat. Due to early conservation of PPE, things are now improving. Due to outside donations of masks and shields, things are now improving.
Yesterday I saw covid patients and had one gown and one N95 mask for my entire shift. That is improved from one for the entire month of march but not best practice. By wearing the same one over and over, you theoretically put your coworkers and patients at risk of getting exposed, not to mention yourself. There is no ideal way to sterilize PPE. That is why it is usually tossed. unless you have been to every wisconsin hospital, your statement simply isn't accurate.
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There are ppe shortages in states and cities where they were hit the hardest (As well as improperly managing the ppe)
Wisconsin does not have any of these shortages in hospitals.
Thanks, Jayce. My wife is a nurse, so we have lots of connections. Some say what you say. Others say mild shortages but none of the nurses are from Milwaukee.
Do you have info on how prepared they are (re. PPE), if things get worse in the city.?
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Unleash where are you getting this from? My hospital has a PPE shortage. This is bogus. it depends on your definition of PPE. It's also important to understand what PPE was like before the pandemic. prepandemic, if I was seeing a patient with a highly dangerous and infectious disease, I would change gown and mask every time i left the room. This is considered best practice in case the PPE is soiled. Due to lack of PPE, this was not and is not currently possible. I started out with one N95 and one gown. Many hospital workers are in the same boat. Due to early conservation of PPE, things are now improving. Due to outside donations of masks and shields, things are now improving.
Yesterday I saw covid patients and had one gown and one N95 mask for my entire shift. That is improved from one for the entire month of march but not best practice. By wearing the same one over and over, you theoretically put your coworkers and patients at risk of getting exposed, not to mention yourself. There is no ideal way to sterilize PPE. That is why it is usually tossed. unless you have been to every wisconsin hospital, your statement simply isn't accurate.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/vzE7csLWN3uRW/giphy.gif)
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Anyone think hospital PPE likely needs to be reassessed? Maybe something more sustainable and reusable?
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I think (hope) that is going to come out of this at the end. New forms of PPE. New protocols for use. An understanding of the need to stockpile for a rainy day.
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There were a ton of precautions at my polling place - it was expertly done. That's not the point (and I know not the point you were trying to make).
I don't know who said it, so I can't credit them, but the amount of people that will get sick because of in person voting will not be zero. That is unacceptable. The amount of people that will die because of in person voting will likely not be zero. That is abjectly reprehensible.
It is a calculation they've made and are completely comfortable with. Voter suppression is essential to them retaining power. And just for Ziggy, here are more examples, including a new one from our extraordinary leader, unflinchingly, unabashedly, confessing this out loud:
"Republicans should fight very hard when it comes to state wide mail-in voting. Democrats are clamoring for it. Tremendous potential for voter fraud, and for whatever reason, doesn’t work out well for Republicans. @foxandfriends
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 8, 2020
(emphasis added)
In Georgia, the Republican Speaker of the House, David Ralston, said allowing people to vote by mail would be "extremely devastating to Republicans and conservatives in Georgia."
Georgia's GOP House Speaker says vote-by-mail system would be 'devastating to Republicans'
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490879-georgias-gop-house-speaker-says-vote-by-mail-system-would-be-devastating
Pennsylvania state House Republican leader Mike Turzai said this weekend that the state’s new voter ID law will “allow” Mitt Romney to win the state in November, according to a report.
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/06/pa-pol-voter-id-helps-gop-win-state-077811
Bonus: Making sure only the "right" sort of people can vote:
"Texans casting a ballot on Monday, when early voting begins, will need to show one of seven forms of photo ID. A concealed handgun license is okay, but a student ID isn't. The Supreme Court on Saturday allowed Texas to go forward with this controversial voter ID law. A federal judge had previously struck down the law, arguing that it could disenfranchise 600,000 voters or a full 4.5 percent of registered voters, many of them black and Latino."
https://newrepublic.com/article/119900/texas-voter-id-allows-handgun-licenses-not-student-ids
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It is a calculation they've made and are completely comfortable with. Voter suppression is essential to them retaining power. And just for Ziggy, here are more examples, including a new one from our extraordinary leader, unflinchingly, unabashedly, confessing this out loud:
"Republicans should fight very hard when it comes to state wide mail-in voting. Democrats are clamoring for it. Tremendous potential for voter fraud, and for whatever reason, doesn’t work out well for Republicans. @foxandfriends
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 8, 2020
(emphasis added)
In Georgia, the Republican Speaker of the House, David Ralston, said allowing people to vote by mail would be "extremely devastating to Republicans and conservatives in Georgia."
Georgia's GOP House Speaker says vote-by-mail system would be 'devastating to Republicans'
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490879-georgias-gop-house-speaker-says-vote-by-mail-system-would-be-devastating
Pennsylvania state House Republican leader Mike Turzai said this weekend that the state’s new voter ID law will “allow” Mitt Romney to win the state in November, according to a report.
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/06/pa-pol-voter-id-helps-gop-win-state-077811
Bonus: Making sure only the "right" sort of people can vote:
"Texans casting a ballot on Monday, when early voting begins, will need to show one of seven forms of photo ID. A concealed handgun license is okay, but a student ID isn't. The Supreme Court on Saturday allowed Texas to go forward with this controversial voter ID law. A federal judge had previously struck down the law, arguing that it could disenfranchise 600,000 voters or a full 4.5 percent of registered voters, many of them black and Latino."
https://newrepublic.com/article/119900/texas-voter-id-allows-handgun-licenses-not-student-ids
My comments were related to Health and Safety at the polling place. You don't need to convince me that voter ID laws are a false flag operation. Evidence can be found in the fact that 75% of people had their faces covered when voting...didn't seem to be an issue that it's awfully hard to validate identity off a picture that way.
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Anyone think hospital PPE likely needs to be reassessed? Maybe something more sustainable and reusable?
In order to reuse it it needs to be able to be sterilized easily. Right now that is not possible. Alcohol containing products or liquids ruin masks and gowns. Hospitals are using UV wands to try and sterilize PPE. The main reason PPE has improved is largely due to conservation efforts nationwide. Never in my 20 year career have I ever had to previously worry about PPE or worry about tossing it after single use. Since things were announced, hospitals have been conserving PPE. Those in the ICU and ER have good supplies. Those in non-ICU covid wards have fairly decent supplies. Those in noncovid floors, the primary care clinics, imaging, lab, or anywhere else in health care do not have good supplies at all. Those people are probably being exposed but don't know it.
It has made sense to conserve PPE for areas most in need, but to say PPE supply is fine is not accurate at all. It hasn't bee accurate from day one of the pandemic until today. I would love for some engineer to develop reusable PPE. The problem is, to truly stay sterile you need to ungown and then sterilize in between patients... much like an operating room setting. You don't want to risk bringing germs from one patient into the room of another patient. Right now that is happening due to lack of PPE. Hospitals have large nosocomial infection rates. I'm sure there are many nosocomial infections happening despite our best infection control efforts.
The reality is ICUs and covid ward providers see more than one patient a day.... they may have 20 total patients per day and wear the same gear for all of them.
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Does anyone have numbers for voters in Milwaukee yesterday?
Close as I can tell, it will be way, way less than the 2016 primary. Only 18,000+ voted yesterday. So far, absentee ballots at under 60,000. So even with a few trickling in yet, the number will be under 90,000.
2016? 193,000. So in case anyone is wondering why Rs were so insistent on voting in the middle of a pandemic yesterday.....
If anyone has updated numbers, please post.
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Does anyone have numbers for voters in Milwaukee yesterday?
Close as I can tell, it will be way, way less than the 2016 primary. Only 18,000+ voted yesterday. So far, absentee ballots at under 60,000. So even with a few trickling in yet, the number will be under 90,000.
2016? 193,000. So in case anyone is wondering why Rs were so insistent on voting in the middle of a pandemic yesterday.....
If anyone has updated numbers, please post.
Not quibbling with you in theory, but keep in mind 2016 was a primary for both parties.
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There are ppe shortages in states and cities where they were hit the hardest (As well as improperly managing the ppe)
Wisconsin does not have any of these shortages in hospitals.
Yeah... no. That's just completely untrue and I'm not sure how you could claim that.
Bo's Massage Therapist gave a perfect account so no need for me to add much more. But my sig other at a major hospital in Wisconsin is having to use face shields over masks to facilitate reusing masks and other similar steps that, as Bo mentions, are a sacrifice from best practices in the name of preserving and addressing the PPE shortage.
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An article on yesterday's election and potential litigation:
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-now-waits-for-the-spring-election-results-and-then-the-lawsuits/article_bd1ba279-363e-5f93-8349-4933d4fcdb96.html
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In order to reuse it it needs to be able to be sterilized easily. Right now that is not possible. Alcohol containing products or liquids ruin masks and gowns. Hospitals are using UV wands to try and sterilize PPE. The main reason PPE has improved is largely due to conservation efforts nationwide. Never in my 20 year career have I ever had to previously worry about PPE or worry about tossing it after single use. Since things were announced, hospitals have been conserving PPE. Those in the ICU and ER have good supplies. Those in non-ICU covid wards have fairly decent supplies. Those in noncovid floors, the primary care clinics, imaging, lab, or anywhere else in health care do not have good supplies at all. Those people are probably being exposed but don't know it.
It has made sense to conserve PPE for areas most in need, but to say PPE supply is fine is not accurate at all. It hasn't bee accurate from day one of the pandemic until today. I would love for some engineer to develop reusable PPE. The problem is, to truly stay sterile you need to ungown and then sterilize in between patients... much like an operating room setting. You don't want to risk bringing germs from one patient into the room of another patient. Right now that is happening due to lack of PPE. Hospitals have large nosocomial infection rates. I'm sure there are many nosocomial infections happening despite our best infection control efforts.
The reality is ICUs and covid ward providers see more than one patient a day.... they may have 20 total patients per day and wear the same gear for all of them.
1. TYFYS
I'm not questioning the use and need of constant changing. More of the figuring out how to disinfect and reuse, there's positive opportunity there. I'm not thinking you need to be walking around like the DJ from Slipknot or anything.
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Not quibbling with you in theory, but keep in mind 2016 was a primary for both parties.
I couldn't find figures, but saw somewhere the turnout gap between Milwaukee and Waukesha narrowed, which feels like an indicator
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https://twitter.com/SenDanFeyen/status/1247943644327206913?s=20
"Sen. Dan Feyen
@SenDanFeyen
I learned today that the WEC received a call from a postal service worker informing them 3 large tubs of absentee ballots from Oshkosh and Appleton, were just located.
I understand your frustration and am working hard to try to remedy the situation."
I'm shocked, shocked, that something like this happened. Who could possibly have predicted an occurrence like this?
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Not quibbling with you in theory, but keep in mind 2016 was a primary for both parties.
You're right, that affects the numbers some, but I was only talking about Milwaukee County Democratic numbers from 4 years ago - not overall numbers..
Total votes in Milwaukee County were about 300,000 4 years ago compared to 93,000 yesterday.
Another stolen election.
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An article on yesterday's election and potential litigation:
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-now-waits-for-the-spring-election-results-and-then-the-lawsuits/article_bd1ba279-363e-5f93-8349-4933d4fcdb96.html
Lawsuits will not matter in any way.
Right-wing State Supreme Court and right-wing Fed Supreme Court. We already know what these rulings will be.
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My google fu is failing me .. wasn't there an election in the south last year .. maybe Virginia or SC .. where the results were so faulty, they cancelled the election and had to re-run it?
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My google fu is failing me .. wasn't there an election in the south last year .. maybe Virginia or SC .. where the results were so faulty, they cancelled the election and had to re-run it?
You may be referring to this North Carolina congressional race that was so mired in corruption that a do-over was ordered.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/north-carolina-ninth-district-fraud-mccready-bishop/597412/
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My google fu is failing me .. wasn't there an election in the south last year .. maybe Virginia or SC .. where the results were so faulty, they cancelled the election and had to re-run it?
Yes. A North Carolina Congressional election. There was out and out fraud in that one though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_North_Carolina%27s_9th_congressional_district_election
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You may be referring to this North Carolina congressional race that was so mired in corruption that a do-over was ordered.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/north-carolina-ninth-district-fraud-mccready-bishop/597412/
Can't be right. Only Democrats commit fraud with mail-in ballots
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How the fudge did Madison have 66 of 92 polling stations open, and MKE only 5 of 180? The article mentioned Madison had more perhaps because they are more politically motivated.
That may be true .. but I'm still having trouble understanding Milwaukee's decision here.
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You may be referring to this North Carolina congressional race that was so mired in corruption that a do-over was ordered.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/north-carolina-ninth-district-fraud-mccready-bishop/597412/
Yep, that was in my district.
After accusing the Dems of trying to cheat for years, the NC GOP got caught with their hands in the ballot jar. Despite mounting evidence, the first GOP candidate denied, denied, denied, denied until his own son testified about the depth of the fraud. Then the candidate, tears streaming down his face, finally called for a new election and took himself off the ballot.
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How the fudge did Madison have 66 of 92 polling stations open, and MKE only 5 of 180? The article mentioned Madison had more perhaps because they are more politically motivated.
That may be true .. but I'm still having trouble understanding Milwaukee's decision here.
Barrett is up against Lena Taylor for mayor. What better reason to suppress the African American vote than to ensure your own reelection.
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Barrett is up against Lena Taylor for mayor. What better reason to suppress the African American vote than to ensure your own reelection.
Barrett has cruised to re-election every year, like by 30+ points .. was there any polling data that showed this was a close election?
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Barrett has cruised to re-election every year, like by 30+ points .. was there any polling data that showed this was a close election?
Lol no. Absolutely nothing to show it was anywhere near close.
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Barrett has cruised to re-election every year, like by 30+ points .. was there any polling data that showed this was a close election?
Theres some pretty big concern about Barrett funding development into downtown while leaving the neighborhoods in disarray.
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Theres some pretty big concern about Barrett funding development into downtown while leaving the neighborhoods in disarray.
That was Lena's major talking point. Doubtful that she was, however, going to win this election even with every polling place open. Madison recruited laid off bar tenders. I'm not sure what Milwaukee did. Why not open up all the fire-stations and ask the MFD to assist?
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That was Lena's major talking point. Doubtful that she was, however, going to win this election even with every polling place open. Madison recruited laid off bar tenders. I'm not sure what Milwaukee did. Why not open up all the fire-stations and ask the MFD to assist?
Because they have their own work to do.
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This is a hell of a time to have a dysfunctional relationship between the executive and legislative.
https://www.wasb.org/mjs-gop-covid-19-legislation-would-allow-state-budget-committee-to-cut-spending-including-aid-to-schools/
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Because they have their own work to do.
Fire stations have been used as polling places in Wisconsin for decades. Madison used two yesterday.
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This is a hell of a time to have a dysfunctional relationship between the executive and legislative.
https://www.wasb.org/mjs-gop-covid-19-legislation-would-allow-state-budget-committee-to-cut-spending-including-aid-to-schools/
Corrupt to the core.
Gerrymander the state to gain unlimited power and then use it to declare that they get to make the decisions if a D is elected governor.
I don’t think there is a state that has been more open and brazen about its corruption.
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That was Lena's major talking point. Doubtful that she was, however, going to win this election even with every polling place open. Madison recruited laid off bar tenders. I'm not sure what Milwaukee did. Why not open up all the fire-stations and ask the MFD to assist?
We used to do that. Too many alarms going out. Firefighters with political bumper stickers parked too close to entrances. Access to expensive stuff when the crews are out on alarms. Sanitary reasons.
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Anyone think hospital PPE likely needs to be reassessed? Maybe something more sustainable and reusable?
This would be a great idea. A way to sterilize certain PPEs as we can now see. This is probably going to be one of the biggest barriers for dental offices to function. If we can’t replenish our PPEs, we are essentially shut down again. I have enough to start, but I’m sure we will blow thru those in no time. Then what? Just spoke to 2 suppliers, level 3’s and N95’s? First I heard the phone drop followed by muffled crazy person laughter.
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This would be a great idea. A way to sterilize certain PPEs as we can now see. This is probably going to be one of the biggest barriers for dental offices to function. If we can’t replenish our PPEs, we are essentially shut down again. I have enough to start, but I’m sure we will blow thru those in no time. Then what? Just spoke to 2 suppliers, level 3’s and N95’s? First I heard the phone drop followed by muffled crazy person laughter.
I’m totally going to need a cleaning soon too.
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Does anyone have numbers for voters in Milwaukee yesterday?
Close as I can tell, it will be way, way less than the 2016 primary. Only 18,000+ voted yesterday. So far, absentee ballots at under 60,000. So even with a few trickling in yet, the number will be under 90,000.
2016? 193,000. So in case anyone is wondering why Rs were so insistent on voting in the middle of a pandemic yesterday.....
If anyone has updated numbers, please post.
Your numbers are really close. 96k requested absentee, 56k have been returned, so 40k COULD be on their way in the mail*. 19k voted in person yesterday.
They said it would exceed the 2012 primary but not 2016.
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Your numbers are really close. 96k requested absentee, 56k have been returned, so 40k COULD be on their way in the mail*. 19k voted in person yesterday.
They said it would exceed the 2012 primary but not 2016.
True, but I don’t think comparing to 2012 is apt as there was no Dem primary in what is a Dem stronghold.
Also, my numbers in the original post for 2016 were Dem numbers only - not total votes.
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The ethical of issues of having 5 polling stations out of 180 open for an area of the state with the highest African American population should be obvious to everyone. Then add in the fact there is a global pandemic that is disproportionately affecting and killing African Americans in this country(and specifically Milwaukee County). I’m about as independent on politics as they come and if that isn’t voter suppression made worse by gross incompetence, I’m not sure what is.
The reality is there is zero shame in politics anymore and the idea of “doing the right thing” for the betterment of society is just about dead. People like Robin Vos and Scott Fitzgerald will go on conservative talk shows and pat themselves on the back for a job well done. Tony Evers will complain about the injustice, but had no problem with this election moving forward when he was closing schools throughout the state and shuttering businesses three weeks ago. Meanwhile the Milwaukee Election Commission and Neil Albrecht will complain to the high heavens that they needed more poll workers, but then overstaffed the 5 polling places they had.
The failure of this touches literally every portion of Wisconsin politics regardless of party and should disgust everyone. And the kicker is we won’t know for a week if this will be a match turns Milwaukee into a hot spot. Talk about political malpractice of the highest degree.
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True, but I don’t think comparing to 2012 is apt as there was no Dem primary in what is a Dem stronghold.
Also, my numbers in the original post for 2016 were Dem numbers only - not total votes.
Yep, was just there for reference data. I did see one interesting item, that turnout is estimated at 1.4m votes .. the 2019 WISC race had 1.2m. So the big question is .. who are those 200k people who voted in 2020 but not 2019 ..
--
Also .. has anyone seen a decent media report on "why only 5" polling stations in MKE? I've never seen more than a few sentences about it.
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I’ll echo Bo, I’ve used the same mask the last 4? days. Do we have enough PPE as we are managing now? Probably. Do we have enough to manage as we should? Hell no.
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The ethical of issues of having 5 polling stations out of 180 open for an area of the state with the highest African American population should be obvious to everyone. Then add in the fact there is a global pandemic that is disproportionately affecting and killing African Americans in this country(and specifically Milwaukee County). I’m about as independent on politics as they come and if that isn’t voter suppression made worse by gross incompetence, I’m not sure what is.
The reality is there is zero shame in politics anymore and the idea of “doing the right thing” for the betterment of society is just about dead. People like Robin Vos and Scott Fitzgerald will go on conservative talk shows and pat themselves on the back for a job well done. Tony Evers will complain about the injustice, but had no problem with this election moving forward when he was closing schools throughout the state and shuttering businesses three weeks ago. Meanwhile the Milwaukee Election Commission and Neil Albrecht will complain to the high heavens that they needed more poll workers, but then overstaffed the 5 polling places they had.
The failure of this touches literally every portion of Wisconsin politics regardless of party and should disgust everyone. And the kicker is we won’t know for a week if this will be a match turns Milwaukee into a hot spot. Talk about political malpractice of the highest degree.
Well said
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WI is reason #1 why mail in voting in November would be a clusterf
Apparently postal workers were returning ballots without postage not knowing no postage was required.
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The end may be in sight.
Testing out of India and Canada are showing 100% effectiveness while injecting antibodies from a cured patient into an infected one.
Wisconsin is harvesting antibodies now. Not sure when we will start injecting
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WI is reason #1 why mail in voting in November would be a clusterf
Apparently postal workers were returning ballots without postage not knowing no postage was required.
I'm sure if we do mail in ballots (which we should) all postal workers will be properly trained.
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The end may be in sight.
Testing out of India and Canada are showing 100% effectiveness while injecting antibodies from a cured patient into an infected one.
Wisconsin is harvesting antibodies now. Not sure when we will start injecting
That would be awesome.
Can you share any further details? From previous reading and discussions here, it seems some people's antibodies are more effective than others; is there any testing going on around this in terms of harvesting?
Also, is it scalable? I saw that one person can provide enough antibodies for four treatments. But how often can a person donate?
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That would be awesome.
Can you share any further details? From previous reading and discussions here, it seems some people's antibodies are more effective than others; is there any testing going on around this in terms of harvesting?
Also, is it scalable? I saw that one person can provide enough antibodies for four treatments. But how often can a person donate?
Now, a Canadian team is testing what happens when critically ill patients receive a recovered patient’s immune cells. Similar testing is already underway in Asia and the United States, where a few very small studies have shown that patients who received doses of antibodies recovered enough to stop relying on ventilators. However, those studies are far from conclusive.
And I wouldn't say the end is near, given this timeline
The study could be completed in three months with data by the end of the year. In the absence of a vaccine, which some doctors have projected could take up to a year to test and create, this therapy could potentially be used to give frontline healthcare workers immunity as they work to save lives.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/can-antibodies-from-recovered-patients-help-people-with-covid-19-1.4887510
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The end may be in sight.
Testing out of India and Canada are showing 100% effectiveness while injecting antibodies from a cured patient into an infected one.
Wisconsin is harvesting antibodies now. Not sure when we will start injecting
UW is in the process. https://www.channel3000.com/uw-health-to-use-superpower-antibodies-from-covid-19-survivors-as-potential-treatment/
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One final point about the election. Having an in-person election during a pandemic was a dumb idea because it unnecessarily endangered the health of many people.
That being said, it seems like the only two municipalities that had long delays were Milwaukee and Green Bay. And I am pretty confident that Green Bay simply screwed this up and could have had a better process in place. Milwaukee has had a chronic problem for awhile that was amplified by their restrictions.
I don't think this is being reported very fairly nationally - assuming that the entire state was plagued with delays. (No pun intended.)
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One final point about the election. Having an in-person election during a pandemic was a dumb idea because it unnecessarily endangered the health of many people.
That being said, it seems like the only two municipalities that had long delays were Milwaukee and Green Bay. And I am pretty confident that Green Bay simply screwed this up and could have had a better process in place. Milwaukee has had a chronic problem for awhile that was amplified by their restrictions.
I don't think this is being reported very fairly nationally - assuming that the entire state was plagued with delays. (No pun intended.)
I mean, unless the delays are not the real problem...
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Now, a Canadian team is testing what happens when critically ill patients receive a recovered patient’s immune cells. Similar testing is already underway in Asia and the United States, where a few very small studies have shown that patients who received doses of antibodies recovered enough to stop relying on ventilators. However, those studies are far from conclusive.
And I wouldn't say the end is near, given this timeline
The study could be completed in three months with data by the end of the year. In the absence of a vaccine, which some doctors have projected could take up to a year to test and create, this therapy could potentially be used to give frontline healthcare workers immunity as they work to save lives.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/can-antibodies-from-recovered-patients-help-people-with-covid-19-1.4887510
I think this timeline can and will be accelerated. The problem is having enough plasma.
I think that can be mitigated by scaleable versions in the works, where we make the antibodies recombinantly, and select only those that are most efficatious. That timeline would be longer, but also may be able to be fast-tracked a bit.
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One final point about the election. Having an in-person election during a pandemic was a dumb idea because it unnecessarily endangered the health of many people.
That being said, it seems like the only two municipalities that had long delays were Milwaukee and Green Bay. And I am pretty confident that Green Bay simply screwed this up and could have had a better process in place. Milwaukee has had a chronic problem for awhile that was amplified by their restrictions.
I don't think this is being reported very fairly nationally - assuming that the entire state was plagued with delays. (No pun intended.)
Only two municipalities. But it is not like the two municipalities were Chippewa Falls and Wausau. These are 2 of the 3 biggest population centers in Wisconsin, which means hundreds of thousands were endangered.
It is also 2 of the 3 largest minority communities. If you have only 5 voting locations in the entire city of Milwaukee, you are disenfranchising minority voters. There is no way around it.
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One final point about the election. Having an in-person election during a pandemic was a dumb idea because it unnecessarily endangered the health of many people.
That being said, it seems like the only two municipalities that had long delays were Milwaukee and Green Bay. And I am pretty confident that Green Bay simply screwed this up and could have had a better process in place. Milwaukee has had a chronic problem for awhile that was amplified by their restrictions.
I don't think this is being reported very fairly nationally - assuming that the entire state was plagued with delays. (No pun intended.)
Thanks for the information, Mr. Vos.
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Thanks for the information, Mr. Vos.
I guess you missed the point where I said we shouldn’t have had held the election.
But keep making dipsh*t comments.
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I guess you missed the point where I said we shouldn’t have had held the election.
But keep making dipsh*t comments.
Dammit Pontiff, I'm agreeing with you more and more. :)
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I finally received my absentee ballot today with a note that if it was returned to the mailbox by the 12th, the USPS would postmark it the 7th to ensure my vote counted.
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I finally received my absentee ballot today with a note that if it was returned to the mailbox by the 12th, the USPS would postmark it the 7th to ensure my vote counted.
I'm glad you got your ballot, but amazed to see the USPS openly commit mail fraud!
FWIW, it is the right thing to do.
Also, make sure you take it to the post office, since the return envelope has pre-paid postage, the post office has to manually stamp the date.
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And I wouldn't say the end is near, given this timeline
Agreed, as I said in the other thread is has to be tested and proven before willy nilly pumping it into people.
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I finally received my absentee ballot today with a note that if it was returned to the mailbox by the 12th, the USPS would postmark it the 7th to ensure my vote counted.
This is .. shocking. Can you tell us more about the note? Did it look official, or .. ? Makes no sense this is possible. What city or zip?
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This is .. shocking. Can you tell us more about the note? Did it look official, or .. ? Makes no sense this is possible. What city or zip?
Show your name and address. And your ballot with an MU hat!
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Vote late, and vote often!
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This is .. shocking. Can you tell us more about the note? Did it look official, or .. ? Makes no sense this is possible. What city or zip?
Milwaukee, 53202.
It was on USPS letterhead, but looked like it was scribbled on by whoever delivered the mail. I live in condo complex so I'm assuming anyone in my building who received their ballot late received the same note.
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Milwaukee, 53202.
It was on USPS letterhead, but looked like it was scribbled on by whoever delivered the mail. I live in condo complex so I'm assuming anyone in my building who received their ballot late received the same note.
So .. it was typed up then scribbled on? Seems like a long message to scribble.
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So .. it was typed up then scribbled on? Seems like a long message to scribble.
It was long.
Edit: I think I'm communicating poorly.. The note was not typed. It was a blank printed letterhead. The entirety of the message was handwritten on that letterhead.
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It was long.
Edit: I think I'm communicating poorly.. The note was not typed. It was a blank printed letterhead. The entirety of the message was handwritten on that letterhead.
Got it .. so .. likely a xerox'd copy of the scribble, as you'd think there'd be dozens/hundreds that would need that note.
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With the numbers announced this afternoon, WI had the smallest day to day increase in new cases since 3/24.
Good to see. Hopefully we'll avoid a major spike in the next week, after last week's election.
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Election results are surprising
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Election results are surprising
They certainly are, but thank God
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Election results are surprising
Disappointing. Yet, not surprising.
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Election results are surprising
Horrible news for Trump and Vos.
Great news for honest people.
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Big win. The state got a little bit better today.
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Horrible news for Trump and Vos.
Great news for honest people.
::)
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My guess is that if it were a Republican presidential primary running against an incumbant Democrat, Kelly would have won.
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Surprised Abele's money won here in Milwaukee but overcoming the suppression attempts for the SC seat is big.
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My guess is that if it were a Republican presidential primary running against an incumbant Democrat, Kelly would have won.
You don’t have to guess, you’re exactly right.
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I’m not a Wisconsinite, but if this was a fait accompli, why did the legislature not delay the vote.
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I need to see more data about winners stemming from the Dem primary race.
I mean .. that race has been over for 2-3 weeks. There's zero excitement, zero campaign events, no big advertising push. Few should have felt the "need" or urge to vote for race that's over.
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Well that’s true too.
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I’ll give credit where credit is due. They held the SC seat and they suppressed voters in the most impressive way I’ve seen in my lifetime. Yet they’re still giving up the seat.
Good job Wisconsin. Hopefully a sign of things to come.
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I’ll give credit where credit is due. They held the SC seat and they suppressed voters in the most impressive way I’ve seen in my lifetime. Yet they’re still giving up the seat.
Good job Wisconsin. Hopefully a sign of things to come.
It is.
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It's interesting that there were 3 judges appointed by Scott Walker on the ballot today. All 3 lost.
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It's interesting that there were 3 judges appointed by Scott Walker on the ballot today. All 3 lost.
In a sense, Scott Walker still defines politics in this state. I mean, I voted for Evers and agree with him on most policy, but his most redeeming feature is that he's not Scott Walker.
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I’m not a Wisconsinite, but if this was a fait accompli, why did the legislature not delay the vote.
One reason - to suppress the vote to favor Kelly.
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ain't no fun, if the homies can't have none
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It's interesting that there were 3 judges appointed by Scott Walker on the ballot today. All 3 lost.
this wasn't the most represented election, but who's fault is that?
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My guess is that if it were a Republican presidential primary running against an incumbant Democrat, Kelly would have won.
OK looking at the final vote numbers, I was wrong about this. Also looking at SW Wisconsin, which has been traditionally Democratic, but swung for Trump in '16, they went for the liberal candidate this time. Repubicans are right to be concerned.
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Dems seemed way more organized. My wife and I got texts from their candidates every day leading up to the election. Nothing from the conservative side.
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Dems seemed way more organized. My wife and I got texts from their candidates every day leading up to the election. Nothing from the conservative side.
They probably didn't think they needed to. Kelly was endorsed fully by the president, and the election was rigged to suppress the vote.
This is continuing a trend dating back more than 2 years of Trump-backed candidates either losing in states/counties/districts that he had won or barely winning in states/counties/districts that he had dominated.
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Let's not read too much into this. Wisconsin is a coin flip every time there is a vote.
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Let's not read too much into this. Wisconsin is a coin flip every time there is a vote.
I realize it. Anything can happen in November, especially if the vote is suppressed. But the fact is that it DOES continue a trend, one that has been pretty big in Wisconsin, too, if the most recent governor's race is included.
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Some numbers for last few SCOWIS elections:
2016- (Pres Primary / high turnout)
Bradley (R) - 1025k
Kloppenburg (D) - 929k
2017 -
Ziegler (R) .. 492k ran unopposed
2018-
Dallet - 556k (D)
Screnock- 441k (R)
2019 -
Hagedorn - 605k (R)
Neubauer - 600k (D)
2020 -
Karofsky - 855k (D)
Kelly - 693k (R)
250k more D's voted, 93k more R's voted in 2020 vs 2019.
But turnout vs. 2016 was way down, 170k fewer D's, 336k fewer R's.
The mix of Pres Primary races in 2016 vs 2020 explains a lot, of course.
In conclusion, who knows what happens in November.
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Some numbers for last few SCOWIS elections:
2016- (Pres Primary / high turnout)
Bradley (R) - 1025k
Kloppenburg (D) - 929k
2017 -
Ziegler (R) .. 492k ran unopposed
2018-
Dallet - 556k (D)
Screnock- 441k (R)
2019 -
Hagedorn - 605k (R)
Neubauer - 600k (D)
2020 -
Karofsky - 855k (D)
Kelly - 693k (R)
250k more D's voted, 93k more R's voted in 2020 vs 2019.
But turnout vs. 2016 was way down, 170k fewer D's, 336k fewer R's.
The mix of Pres Primary races in 2016 vs 2020 explains a lot, of course.
In conclusion, who knows what happens in November.
Ha, I was in the process of typing out something very similar. Neubauer lost to Hagedorn, so to call this a trend is a tad misleading.
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Let's not read too much into this. Wisconsin is a coin flip every time there is a vote.
It is, but their digital game has received a lot of attention. The turnover is impressive given the national race was effectively DOA in the weeks leading up and due to Covid.
Dems should feel good about where their organization is at right now. Took a lot of Ls leading up to this election and still came out strong. Lots of work to do for November and some big hurdles, but for once they didn't fall flat on their faces.
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Dems seemed way more organized. My wife and I got texts from their candidates every day leading up to the election. Nothing from the conservative side.
I got texts from both sides, more from Kelly late....soooo many blocked numbers now.
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Former MU baller Marcus West won as an alderman up in Racine.
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Hagedorn/Neubauer was decided by a handful of votes. And the abocve trend line doesn't include Walker's surprising loss.
I'm assuming nothing. And I don't really care about Wisconsin politics. Just looking at the national trends, and I believe what I said earlier was correct:
Even states/counties/districts that Trump had carried in 2016, some of which he had won decisively and some of which had been Republican for years or even decades, have become competitive since 2018. Meanwhile, very few traditionally Dem areas have turned right.
I make no predictions. So much will depend on turnout. If turnout is high in the swing states, it bodes well for the Dem candidates. It's math. There simply are more Dems than Republicans, and more Independents than either in a lot of those states. And Independents have leaned away from Trump the last two years. If anything approaching the "Obama coalition" shows up in November, or even the enthusiasm from 2018 turns out, it wouldn't be good for Republicans.
These aren't "political opinions." They are facts.
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I got texts from both sides, more from Kelly late....soooo many blocked numbers now.
Just keep texting them back and with questions about the campaign. Get increasingly hostile. They don't send out texts after a while.
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Hagedorn/Neubauer was decided by a handful of votes. And the abocve trend line doesn't include Walker's surprising loss.
I'm assuming nothing. And I don't really care about Wisconsin politics. Just looking at the national trends, and I believe what I said earlier was correct:
Even states/counties/districts that Trump had carried in 2016, some of which he had won decisively and some of which had been Republican for years or even decades, have become competitive since 2018. Meanwhile, very few traditionally Dem areas have turned right.
I make no predictions. So much will depend on turnout. If turnout is high in the swing states, it bodes well for the Dem candidates. It's math. There simply are more Dems than Republicans, and more Independents than either in a lot of those states. And Independents have leaned away from Trump the last two years. If anything approaching the "Obama coalition" shows up in November, or even the enthusiasm from 2018 turns out, it wouldn't be good for Republicans.
These aren't "political opinions." They are facts.
So, we agree, a coin flip.
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Alternative facts:
Ronna McDaniel
@GOPChairwoman
Congratulations to
@realDonaldTrump
on his big victory in Wisconsin!
The state was critical in 2016, and we are working hard to keep it in the WIN column in November!
https://twitter.com/GOPChairwoman/status/1249817464776658944
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So, we agree, a coin flip.
Absolutely. 7 months is forever.
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Ha, I was in the process of typing out something very similar. Neubauer lost to Hagedorn, so to call this a trend is a tad misleading.
I think the one trend that was pretty consistent in Wisconsin was that Rs did well in off year elections until 2018. That was the biggest reason we couldn’t get rid of Walker. Dems were lazy voters who didn’t turn out In off years. Trump was the biggest reason Evers beat Walker.
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Ha, I was in the process of typing out something very similar. Neubauer lost to Hagedorn, so to call this a trend is a tad misleading.
Seeing those vote totals bounce up and down 300-600k votes is .. kind of amazing. Liberal SC candidates have taken 2 of the last 3 SCOWIS elections, so it begs the question: Why only 2 of 3?
In the past few years .. there is zero chance a SC candidate wins or loses because of their positions on X or Y, or if they are qualified or not.
Hagedorn was thought of as a lost cause but the closing weeks GOP voters were inspired to defend GOP judges during the Kavanaugh hearings. Despite being outspent by huge sums, the turnout got him the W.
Fast forward 12 months and now liberal voters are inspired to vote in large numbers. For the final 3 weeks, the April election is HUGE news and people request mail in ballots in giant numbers.
TLDR, there's ~500k voters in Wisconsin who maybe vote in April, maybe not, depending on their inspiration. How that breaks is who wins. It doesn't matter if the candidate is mediocre or who spends the most. It's who is burning to vote the other party out.
TLDR2: #Arbys. This is no way to run a country.
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Funny how all the leftist groups are no longer planning on lawsuits, since their candidate won the SC election.
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Evers has now banned window visits at nursing homes and assisted living facilities.
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Funny how all the leftist groups are no longer planning on lawsuits, since their candidate won the SC election.
I don't see that as odd. Election lawsuits are entirely about outcomes.
Both political sides operate under the same rule: Count of odd/missing/rejected/undelivered ballots > the difference between candidate totals = LAWSUIT
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Evers has now banned window visits at nursing homes and assisted living facilities.
You've got that backwards:
https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/Wisconsin-bans-window-visits-at-nursing-homes-569628631.html (https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/Wisconsin-bans-window-visits-at-nursing-homes-569628631.html)
Gov. Evers rescinds agency's ban on "window visits" at nursing homes
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You've got that backwards:
https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/Wisconsin-bans-window-visits-at-nursing-homes-569628631.html (https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/Wisconsin-bans-window-visits-at-nursing-homes-569628631.html)
Gov. Evers rescinds agency's ban on "window visits" at nursing homes
Good. Glad someone came to their senses.
My aunt-in-law(?) died this past weekend from breast cancer and her family wasnt allowed to visit. Whats she going to do, catch the rona before the cancer took her?
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Can we all just agree, every governmental distancing rule gets a pass for the rest of April?
I mean, please. This situation is maximum crazy and we're just going to have to suck it up for a few more weeks, stupid rules or not.
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Can we all just agree, every governmental distancing rule gets a pass for the rest of April?
I mean, please. This situation is maximum crazy and we're just going to have to suck it up for a few more weeks, stupid rules or not.
Eh, if someone told me I couldn't see my dying son/wife etc. Id probably say unnatural carnal knowledge that, and go.
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Good. Glad someone came to their senses.
My aunt-in-law(?) died this past weekend from breast cancer and her family wasnt allowed to visit. Whats she going to do, catch the rona before the cancer took her?
You got caught in a lie.
"Someone" didn't come to their senses. Evers got rid of a bad rule that an agency had made.
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All 7 Wisconsin Supreme Court justices voted absentee.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/investigations/daniel-bice/2020/04/13/wisconsin-election-supreme-court-justices-all-voted-absentee/5134487002/
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I think the Supreme Court made the right decision. I'm blaming the legislature.
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All 7 Wisconsin Supreme Court justices voted absentee.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/investigations/daniel-bice/2020/04/13/wisconsin-election-supreme-court-justices-all-voted-absentee/5134487002/
Lots of hypocrisy here.
If these justices normally voted absentee, there would be no issue. By changing their habits, the acknowledged that they thought the normal election process was potentially dangerous.
Every other state with the later primary has postponed with zero issues except for Wisconsin and Ohio.
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I think the Supreme Court made the right decision. I'm blaming the legislature.
Agree, sort of. The legislature should have absolutely joined with the governor.
The WISC and SCOTUS should have .. scheduled hearings for ~June 1st.
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You got caught in a lie.
"Someone" didn't come to their senses. Evers got rid of a bad rule that an agency had made.
Not a lie. It was on the news this morning. Toppers link was from around 11:30 am. Right about the time Evers wakes up from.his morning nap.
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Not a lie. It was on the news this morning. Toppers link was from around 11:30 am. Right about the time Evers wakes up from.his morning nap.
You wrote .. "Evers has now banned window visits at nursing homes and assisted living facilities."
This is a false statement, and what you posted was factually incorrect. Either the news you listened to stated it incorrectly, or you misheard it and spread the falsehood.
You can own that, it's OK. "Oops, sorry, my bad."
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You wrote .. "Evers has now banned window visits at nursing homes and assisted living facilities."
This is a false statement, and what you posted was factually incorrect. Either the news you listened to stated it incorrectly, or you misheard it and spread the falsehood.
You can own that, it's OK. "Oops, sorry, my bad."
https://wkow.com/2020/04/14/window-visits-at-nursing-homes/ (https://wkow.com/2020/04/14/window-visits-at-nursing-homes/)
No, the "Board on Aging", which is under the governor, issued this asinine ruling yesterday and it was repealed at 11:30
my bad, had the time wrong.
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https://wkow.com/2020/04/14/window-visits-at-nursing-homes/ (https://wkow.com/2020/04/14/window-visits-at-nursing-homes/)
No, the "Board on Aging", which is under the governor, issued this asinine ruling yesterday and it was repealed at 11:30
my bad, had the time wrong.
Grandma died. We buried Grandma.
vs
We buried Grandma. Grandma died.
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Everything that happens in the executive branch is the responsibility of the chief executive, no? That's what the Brain Trust of this board would have you believe.
I mean...from your article...it appears the guy you want to blame, actually "fixed" the problem once he heard about it. Not created the problem as you are stating:
But after the guidance was brought to the attention of Evers' office, the board updated its recommendations.
I don't live in Wisconsin, and have no idea if Evers is "good" or "bad". But in this case head heard about a bad decision and forced a good change - no?
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Exactly, rocky.
C'mon, Zig. You posted something to cast shade on Evers. Yeah, he's the head of the Exec, but he fixed it shortly after finding out.
It's ok, we make mistakes.
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I hear family members on group call boardline yelling about how horrible evers is for the "banning the window visits". The iggnorance gives me a headache
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Exactly, rocky.
C'mon, Zig. You posted something to cast shade on Evers. Yeah, he's the head of the Exec, but he fixed it shortly after finding out.
It's ok, we make mistakes.
so, the reaction by the pro-evers crowd should be to have the same tolerance and due diligence for our potus then, eyn'a?
mkay
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so, the reaction by the pro-evers crowd should be to have the same tolerance and due diligence for our potus then, eyn'a?
mkay
His administration made a mistake. It was changed after public backlash. A responsive government that isn’t afraid to admit mistakes and take corrective action quickly.
So you want to compare this to the Trumps administration handling of the pandemic? They have made multiple errors but have admitted to none of them and still are screwing up the response.
So why should I have the same tolerance when they don’t react the same?
Looking forward to the answer that i undoubtedly will not receive. Per usual.
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so, the reaction by the pro-evers crowd should be to have the same tolerance and due diligence for our potus then, eyn'a?
mkay
Sure. Tell me anything he has ever fixed less than a day after it occurred?
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Sure. Tell me anything he has ever fixed less than a day after it occurred?
Well they did admit they didn’t have ‘total authority’ today after many members of their own congress spoke out.
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Well they did admit they didn’t have ‘total authority’ today after many members of their own congress spoke out.
Yeah, when you've lost Liz Cheney, daughter of one of the strongest proponents of the Unitary Executive theory, you've really f'ed up.
-
Sure. Tell me anything he has ever fixed less than a day after it occurred?
To be fair, he paid off some of his girlfriends pretty fast.
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His administration made a mistake. It was changed after public backlash. A responsive government that isn’t afraid to admit mistakes and take corrective action quickly.
So you want to compare this to the Trumps administration handling of the pandemic? They have made multiple errors but have admitted to none of them and still are screwing up the response.
So why should I have the same tolerance when they don’t react the same?
Looking forward to the answer that i undoubtedly will not receive. Per usual.
<crickets>
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so, the reaction by the pro-evers crowd should be to have the same tolerance and due diligence for our potus then, eyn'a?
mkay
You mistake "Pro-Evers" with "Pro-facts."
I take your point though. Of the umbrage displayed about Trump's (mis)statements, a portion of it is undue.
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I’m no fan of Evers and think he’s way over his head, but going at him for this is the worst thing that No
joEvers can do cause it discredits further arguments against as overly biased and behind blinders
-
<crickets>
oops, just noted your post now-"multiple errors" admitting to "none"? source? go review how H1N1 was handled by you know who and get back to me.
1st case documented 4/18/2009
6/11/2001-WHO issues pandemic alert
10/24/2009-obama declares public health emergency-this after more than 1000 people had already DIED
i don't remember near the hysteria and/or hard 24/7 condemnations of obama during this time during our first "scandal free" administration of course. let all the arse covering begin in 3...2...1...
regardless of whether not admittance was made of any "misunderstanding", corrections have been continually been made along the way. if you are waiting to see anything good or at least "acceptable" on cnn, msnbc, abc, cbs, nbc, huffpost, bloomberg, et.al. it will never happen. our country has been carpet bombed with all bad news for a number of reasons-tds and "the experts narrative"
-
oops, just noted your post now-"multiple errors" admitting to "none"? source? go review how H1N1 was handled by you know who and get back to me.
1st case documented 4/18/2009
6/11/2001-WHO issues pandemic alert
10/24/2009-obama declares public health emergency-this after more than 1000 people had already DIED
i don't remember near the hysteria and/or hard 24/7 condemnations of obama during this time during our first "scandal free" administration of course. let all the arse covering begin in 3...2...1...
regardless of whether not admittance was made of any "misunderstanding", corrections have been continually been made along the way. if you are waiting to see anything good or at least "acceptable" on cnn, msnbc, abc, cbs, nbc, huffpost, bloomberg, et.al. it will never happen. our country has been carpet bombed with all bad news for a number of reasons-tds and "the experts narrative"
12,469 people died in the US as a result of H1N1 in a full calendar year.
25,000 people died in the US as a result of COVID-19 in its first six weeks.
Maybe it's time to stop dropping that comparison.
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oops, just noted your post now-"multiple errors" admitting to "none"? source? go review how H1N1 was handled by you know who and get back to me.
1st case documented 4/18/2009
6/11/2001-WHO issues pandemic alert
10/24/2009-obama declares public health emergency-this after more than 1000 people had already DIED
i don't remember near the hysteria and/or hard 24/7 condemnations of obama during this time during our first "scandal free" administration of course. let all the arse covering begin in 3...2...1...
regardless of whether not admittance was made of any "misunderstanding", corrections have been continually been made along the way. if you are waiting to see anything good or at least "acceptable" on cnn, msnbc, abc, cbs, nbc, huffpost, bloomberg, et.al. it will never happen. our country has been carpet bombed with all bad news for a number of reasons-tds and "the experts narrative"
Nm
-
oops, just noted your post now-"multiple errors" admitting to "none"? source? go review how H1N1 was handled by you know who and get back to me.
1st case documented 4/18/2009
6/11/2001-WHO issues pandemic alert
10/24/2009-obama declares public health emergency-this after more than 1000 people had already DIED
i don't remember near the hysteria and/or hard 24/7 condemnations of obama during this time during our first "scandal free" administration of course. let all the arse covering begin in 3...2...1...
regardless of whether not admittance was made of any "misunderstanding", corrections have been continually been made along the way. if you are waiting to see anything good or at least "acceptable" on cnn, msnbc, abc, cbs, nbc, huffpost, bloomberg, et.al. it will never happen. our country has been carpet bombed with all bad news for a number of reasons-tds and "the experts narrative"
Cool.
None of this answers the question I posed. But I'm glad you're sticking to your talking points instead of thinking critically. Life is so much easier that way!!!
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I’m no fan of Evers and think he’s way over his head, but going at him for this is the worst thing that NojoEvers can do cause it discredits further arguments against as overly biased and behind blinders
I have become a fan of Evers. He's kinda the anti-politician. One of the few I've seen that isn't like a moth to flame when cameras are around. On the charisma scale, he's definitely in the negative numbers.
But I have been pleased with the job he ha done both before the pandemic and since. I could quibble with a couple things he's done, but overall, he's been solid. Of course it is a low bar, since we have to compare him to Walker.
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I have become a fan of Evers. He's kinda the anti-politician. One of the few I've seen that isn't like a moth to flame when cameras are around. On the charisma scale, he's definitely in the negative numbers.
But I have been pleased with the job he ha done both before the pandemic and since. I could quibble with a couple things he's done, but overall, he's been solid. Of course it is a low bar, since we have to compare him to Walker.
I still can't believe I met Walker several times as a student.
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I was two years behind Farley and two years ahead of when Walker was supposed to graduate. I knew him peripherally and then interviewed him and his opponent for ASMU president during that election. We ran both interviews on WMUR. I was not favorably impressed but even then he had a group of followers that would do anything for him. Witness the going through the dorms campaigning and the disposal of every copy of the Marquette Tribune they could find when it endorsed his opponent.
-
Spanky Walker and his Gang, circa 1986
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_wu3YMIISA0/V0oQUAuNTLI/AAAAAAAAB1A/A89FBekj2cA6vVKtRw7_hv2kPD96LWZRwCLcB/s1600/Kiefer-in-Stand-By-Me-kiefer-sutherland-12960907-853-480.jpg)
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Crean sucks
-
They apparently learned nothing from the backlash in Wisconsin:
"Texas voters can’t request a mail-in ballot for upcoming elections if they fear contracting Covid-19 and groups that encourage them to do so could face criminal consequences, the state attorney general’s office said Wednesday.
Texas tightly regulates the use of mail-in ballots, only allowing people 65 or older, with disabilities, and those out of their county during an election to use them. Many states are loosening their requirements for requesting an absentee ballot, but the Wednesday letter from Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, a Republican, makes it clear the state will remain inflexible on its policy.
“Fear of contracting Covid-19 unaccompanied by a qualifying sickness or physical condition does not constitute a disability under the Election Code for purposes of receiving a ballot by mail,” Ryan Vassar, an attorney in the attorney general’s office, wrote to the legislature. “To the extent that third parties advise voters to apply for a mail-in ballot based solely on fear of contracting Covid-19, such activity could subject those third parties to criminal sanctions.”
The letter came on the same day that a judge in Travis County, home of Austin, heard arguments in a lawsuit seeking to allow every Texan to vote by mail. The judge said he was “inclined” to grant the request."
Source: The Guardian
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They apparently learned nothing from the backlash in Wisconsin:
"Texas voters can’t request a mail-in ballot for upcoming elections if they fear contracting Covid-19 and groups that encourage them to do so could face criminal consequences, the state attorney general’s office said Wednesday.
Texas tightly regulates the use of mail-in ballots, only allowing people 65 or older, with disabilities, and those out of their county during an election to use them. Many states are loosening their requirements for requesting an absentee ballot, but the Wednesday letter from Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, a Republican, makes it clear the state will remain inflexible on its policy.
“Fear of contracting Covid-19 unaccompanied by a qualifying sickness or physical condition does not constitute a disability under the Election Code for purposes of receiving a ballot by mail,” Ryan Vassar, an attorney in the attorney general’s office, wrote to the legislature. “To the extent that third parties advise voters to apply for a mail-in ballot based solely on fear of contracting Covid-19, such activity could subject those third parties to criminal sanctions.”
The letter came on the same day that a judge in Travis County, home of Austin, heard arguments in a lawsuit seeking to allow every Texan to vote by mail. The judge said he was “inclined” to grant the request."
Source: The Guardian
Must suppress the vote ... must suppress the vote ... must suppress the vote ...
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Ballot harvesting is their concern.
-
Ballot harvesting is their concern.
:-\
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Tony Evans (sic) responds to protestors in Wisconsin for closing parks. He is taking the right approach, but how patient will people be in the long run?
https://www.newsweek.com/wisconsin-coronavirus-state-parks-protest-governor-evers-1497945
CNN saying today this could go until 2022. There will be riots in this country if it goes that long.
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Ballot harvesting is their concern.
Is there any proof of fraud with this act?
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I mean social distancing to what extent? No way in hell we r doing stay at home order till 2022. Seems like a worst case scenario but really any level of social distancing till 22 is a complete nightmare. Absolute horror show.
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Tony Evans (sic) responds to protestors in Wisconsin for closing parks. He is taking the right approach, but how patient will people be in the long run?
https://www.newsweek.com/wisconsin-coronavirus-state-parks-protest-governor-evers-1497945
CNN saying today this could go until 2022. There will be riots in this country if it goes that long.
No, CNN is not saying this could go until 2022.
CNN (and many other news outlets) reported on a study that says "intermittent" social distancing would be necessary until 2022 "unless a vaccine or better therapeutics becomes available, or we increase our critical care capacity."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/health/social-distancing-research-coronavirus-2022-trnd/index.html
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I mean social distancing to what extent? No way in hell we r doing stay at home order till 2022. Seems like a worst case scenario but really any level of social distancing till 22 is a complete nightmare. Absolute horror show.
Yeah, much worse than going over the top at Verdun!
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Ballot harvesting is their concern.
"Moderate Democrat" spouts right-wing talking point after right-wing talking point. Weird.
What's a chicos?
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Is there any proof of fraud with this act?
Historically? Yes. Republican in North Carolina won an election for the US House of Representatives in 2018 in part to ballot harvesting which later overturned the election result. Democrats were not happy. In California is legal, and Republicans were not happy. Both sides have benefited or been hurt.
https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/republican-operatives-were-behind-some-of-the-most-egregious-ballot-harvesting-frauds-of-recent-memory/
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Historically? Yes. Republican in North Carolina won an election for the US House of Representatives in 2018 in part to ballot harvesting which later overturned the election result. Democrats were not happy. In California is legal, and Republicans were not happy. Both sides have benefited or been hurt.
https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/republican-operatives-were-behind-some-of-the-most-egregious-ballot-harvesting-frauds-of-recent-memory/
Both sides!!!!
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CNN saying today this could go until 2022. There will be riots in this country if it goes that long.
It really isn't even close to what CNN said. If you have to make things up to score points, you've lost before the opening tip.
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Historically? Yes. Republican in North Carolina won an election for the US House of Representatives in 2018 in part to ballot harvesting which later overturned the election result. Democrats were not happy. In California is legal, and Republicans were not happy. Both sides have benefited or been hurt.
https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/republican-operatives-were-behind-some-of-the-most-egregious-ballot-harvesting-frauds-of-recent-memory/
Got it.
So, everyone mails in their own ballot. That prevents ballot harvesting. Boom, problem solved and no one should have an issue with mail-in voting.
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Evers' WI stay at home extended to May 26th. all schools closed.
(this was Evers' decision, i hope it is ok to say that it came from him.)
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Not surprising. Always thought 6/1 felt like the day. Companies like mine that can work remote will likely be asked to continue past then.
Golfing opened as a way to stop Vos and Co from being ignorant pricks (though golfing should have always been allowed tbh). I will be taking my 3 year old golfing to get him outside, don't @ me.
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Golfing opened as a way to stop Vos and Co from being ignorant pricks (though golfing should have always been allowed tbh). I will be taking my 3 year old golfing to get him outside, don't @ me.
@GB Warrior I'm jealous you get to take your kid out golfing.
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Evers' WI stay at home extended to May 26th. all schools closed.
(this was Evers' decision, i hope it is ok to say that it came from him.)
his legal line is may 10-anything beyond has to be voted on. hopefully we have enough pols with their testicles intact to do the right thing and tell tony to go take another nap
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his legal line is may 10-anything beyond has to be voted on. hopefully we have enough pols with their testicles intact to do the right thing and tell tony to go take another nap
Expound up that May 10th date. Why?
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his legal line is may 10-anything beyond has to be voted on. hopefully we have enough pols with their testicles intact to do the right thing and tell tony to go take another nap
That’s the spirit!
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As if there are any right answers at the moment. It is all one giant rancid pile of suck.
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his legal line is may 10-anything beyond has to be voted on. hopefully we have enough pols with their testicles intact to do the right thing and tell tony to go take another nap
What's the address of your practice? I'll let Tony know to send the sick folks your way.
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his legal line is may 10-anything beyond has to be voted on. hopefully we have enough pols with their testicles intact to do the right thing and tell tony to go take another nap
I'm trying to figure out exactly how we have gotten to the point where making people less safe is a sign of manliness. But here we are I guess...
Anyway, apparently there are conflicting laws regarding the length of time an order can be in place for. The governor's order apparently can sunset on May 10, but the order by the department of health services can be extended infefinately.
That being said, this feels a couple of weeks too long to me. I was thinking May 11.
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That being said, this feels a couple of weeks too long to me. I was thinking May 11.
I was as well, but I'd rather be a couple weeks too long than too short.
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One other item of note from the Gov today : Golf courses may open .. but need online payment and scheduling tweaks to keep social distance.
It is time to start having legit conversations about ALL low-risk outdoor activities. Golf isn't the only activity that should be OK.
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What's the address of your practice? I'll let Tony know to send the sick folks your way.
53590- land of fruits n nuts-i realize you may be tight with a lot of "sick people" it's the coronavirus that we are concerned about though
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Okay, May 26th, then. As others have said, it feels two weeks too long, but here we are. Let’s hope over the next couple weeks the Midwestern governors start actually outlining what solutions for a reopening in June will look like as opposed to just staying mum and then extending it to June 15th in mid-May. These lockdowns are not sustainable.
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53590- land of fruits n nuts-i realize you may be tight with a lot of "sick people" it's the coronavirus that we are concerned about though
I award you points for the sick people comment, but zero for not giving out my zip instead of yours.
Don't be a coward... since you're not afraid. ;D
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I'm trying to figure out exactly how we have gotten to the point where making people less safe is a sign of manliness. But here we are I guess...
Anyway, apparently there are conflicting laws regarding the length of time an order can be in place for. The governor's order apparently can sunset on May 10, but the order by the department of health services can be extended infefinately.
That being said, this feels a couple of weeks too long to me. I was thinking May 11.
Good thing is that he can rescind the order if things are looking good by then. Now, if he tried tacking on two more weeks to 5/11... imagine the outrage.
IMO, better to be on the safe side, and get good news, than to appear reckless and have to extend for two additional weeks.
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One other item of note from the Gov today : Golf courses may open .. but need online payment and scheduling tweaks to keep social distance.
It is time to start having legit conversations about ALL low-risk outdoor activities. Golf isn't the only activity that should be OK.
e
Here, here May 1 is write 'round da korner, aina?
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Those discussions need to start taking place everywhere. Construction. Landscaping. Nurseries. Offices with a small number of employees and low foot traffic. Nobody WANTS this shutdown to go one day love her than it needs to. But figuring out the proper balance is well nigh impossible.
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Good thing is that he can rescind the order if things are looking good by then. Now, if he tried tacking on two more weeks to 5/11... imagine the outrage.
IMO, better to be on the safe side, and get good news, than to appear reckless and have to extend for two additional weeks.
Not a bad point. I also think Evers is playing politics here. Maybe the Legislature makes a fuss, files a lawsuit, and its gets shortened to May 10. Then if there are problems afterwards, he can point the finger of blame elsewhere.
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e
Here, here May 1 is write 'round da korner, aina?
Pretty hard to do outdoor fookin' and maintain a safe social distance ai''na?
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Pretty hard to do outdoor fookin' and maintain a safe social distance ai''na?
Sheep are not known carriers.
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Nobody WANTS this shutdown to go one day love her than it needs to. But figuring out the proper balance is well nigh impossible.
I love auto-correct. ;D
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Those discussions need to start taking place everywhere. Construction. Landscaping. Nurseries. Offices with a small number of employees and low foot traffic. Nobody WANTS this shutdown to go one day love her than it needs to. But figuring out the proper balance is well nigh impossible.
Yup.
One other item of note from the Gov today : Golf courses may open .. but need online payment and scheduling tweaks to keep social distance.
It is time to start having legit conversations about ALL low-risk outdoor activities. Golf isn't the only activity that should be OK.
Double yup.
Tennis for example. I guess I could understand not allowing play at courts in which folks have to line up outside waiting for a court to clear, but even there you could pretty easily implement social distancing. Otherwise, it's two people with a tennis ball. Make it so those 2 people have to know each other, if you want, but it's a ridiculous activity to ban.
There are ways to gradually open up things, and it is inevitable. We can't keep the country closed forever. All of us could sit down and list businesses that should be allowed to open, even if with some restrictions.
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Yup.
Double yup.
Tennis for example. I guess I could understand not allowing play at courts in which folks have to line up outside waiting for a court to clear, but even there you could pretty easily implement social distancing. Otherwise, it's two people with a tennis ball. Make it so those 2 people have to know each other, if you want, but it's a ridiculous activity to ban.
There are ways to gradually open up things, and it is inevitable. We can't keep the country closed forever. All of us could sit down and list businesses that should be allowed to open, even if with some restrictions.
Tennis requires shared use of equipment - golf does not. I think the issue will come to overcrowding. On golf courses it's easy to minimize size at one time since there are tee times. Now if bike trails and such can have people sign up for times to use and control how many people are in an area we're good. But if Karen and Bill can't keep their distances and crowds form, time to lock em down again.
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I love auto-correct. ;D
Oops. Awesome. Going to leave it there because it is funnier.
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Tennis requires shared use of equipment - golf does not. I think the issue will come to overcrowding. On golf courses it's easy to minimize size at one time since there are tee times. Now if bike trails and such can have people sign up for times to use and control how many people are in an area we're good. But if Karen and Bill can't keep their distances and crowds form, time to lock em down again.
I get where you're coming from, I really do. But we live in a world full of risks and need to navigate them constantly.
Yes, a shared tennis ball is a risk -- but frankly, it's VERY tiny. Golfing, yes, people might grab the flag, but again, very small risk.
The goal shouldn't be to get infections down to zero: that's a fantasy.
The first 95% is hard enough. The last 5% is just brutal and people will revolt.
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Plus you are often playing with known contacts - at some point, we do need to be able to expand circles of people who are appropriately practicing social distancing. Such as my hair stylist...
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Plus you are often playing with known contacts - at some point, we do need to be able to expand circles of people who are appropriately practicing social distancing. Such as my hair stylist...
40+ years of no buzz cuts might be going out the window soon.
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I get where you're coming from, I really do. But we live in a world full of risks and need to navigate them constantly.
Yes, a shared tennis ball is a risk -- but frankly, it's VERY tiny. Golfing, yes, people might grab the flag, but again, very small risk.
The goal shouldn't be to get infections down to zero: that's a fantasy.
The first 95% is hard enough. The last 5% is just brutal and people will revolt.
Probably the smartest thing said here.
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Tennis requires shared use of equipment
This:
Yes, a shared tennis ball is a risk -- but frankly, it's VERY tiny.
The goal shouldn't be to get infections down to zero: that's a fantasy.
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Local hospitals in Madison area think whatever the “surge” was or is, is over. Will start doing elective items next week with testing on everyone.
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You're more likely to die on your way to playing tennis then you are to die from COVID from the ball. Come off it.
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Expound up that May 10th date. Why?
Question number 24 in this thread that he can't answer.
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You're more likely to die on your way to playing tennis then you are to die from COVID from the ball. Come off it.
You think it’s coincidence that the virus emoji looks just like a tennis ball
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You think it’s coincidence that the virus emoji looks just like a tennis ball
Bruh you gotta keep dat shyt in the conspiracy thread!
Thats a juicy one.
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Somebody told me that hair salons can have one customer in at a time under this new Safer at Home order. Has anybody seen/heard that? I found the release on the Safer at Home order and it specifically says hair, nail, etc. salons to be closed, but I'm not sure if this is the new order or not (I think it is, because it mentions curbside pickup for libraries, which I believe is new).
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Pretty hard to do outdoor fookin' and maintain a safe social distance ai''na?
Knot four us dudes wit long Johnsons, hey?
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I love that we're literally at peak infections and people are clamoring to open things back up. And 1 week after Wisconsin made international news for the idiocy for setting aside shelter-in-place guidelines and holding an election. You're 2-3 weeks from being able to measure the fallout from that vote.
It's like the state is trying to win a Darwin Award.
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Going to be an interesting week in Wisconsin. Our hospital is seeing many patients improve/get extubated. previously primary care providers were unable to test patients unless they were immunocompromised or critically ill. I received an email from the state lab today stating that all health care providers should test everyone effective today, including patients with mild disease. Looks like we can finally test everyone which is what is needed to get everything up and running again.
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Going to be an interesting week in Wisconsin. Our hospital is seeing many patients improve/get extubated. previously primary care providers were unable to test patients unless they were immunocompromised or critically ill. I received an email from the state lab today stating that all health care providers should test everyone effective today, including patients with mild disease. Looks like we can finally test everyone which is what is needed to get everything up and running again.
Great news. Hopefully it lasts. Stay healthy, you and everyone.
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From a mke hospital worker...
Good news: haven’t had anything close to a surge of Covid patients.
Bad news: lack of demand = over staffed. Started furloughing workers.
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From a mke hospital worker...
Good news: haven’t had anything close to a surge of Covid patients.
Bad news: lack of demand = over staffed. Started furloughing workers.
hot damn that's a great screen name bh!!
another either unintended consequence or pure stupidity and/or dictatorial response is the fact that all the other significant medical issues are being kicked down the road. so we save lives from the virus, but watch all these abandoned(what Hippocratic oath) medical issues kill the others. aurora has under 200 TOTAL patients in all of their facilities. some have ZERO. but the poor guy with a psa of 17 has his appointment pushed out to october
oh, but abortion clinics are considered essential?
this is what gubmint run health care looks like
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Article in Milwaukee business journal last week said Wisconsin Ascension hospitals revenue was down 60% in q1.
Friends and family who are either nurses or doctors are saying they have 3,4, and sometimes 5 patient floors fully dedicated to covid patients that are sitting empty. The goal of the shutdown was to give the health system a chance to figure things out and get there feet underneath them.
Mission accomplished....time to start opening things up imo. This is unsustainable for our health system, businesses, and the general well being of the public. If/when their are isolated hotspots we know how to identify them and minimize the damage with what we’ve learned over the past couple months.
Keep the restrictions in place through end of month and then enough of the insanity.
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40+ years of no buzz cuts might be going out the window soon.
I did my own last week.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/88fdb548005d56ad1d5a27ccdaf9ef63/tenor.gif?itemid=5964297)
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Going to be an interesting week in Wisconsin. Our hospital is seeing many patients improve/get extubated. previously primary care providers were unable to test patients unless they were immunocompromised or critically ill. I received an email from the state lab today stating that all health care providers should test everyone effective today, including patients with mild disease. Looks like we can finally test everyone which is what is needed to get everything up and running again.
Bo, which system? (Guessing GHC, since you give the Grinch massages. 8-) 8-) )
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hot damn that's a great screen name bh!!
another either unintended consequence or pure stupidity and/or dictatorial response is the fact that all the other significant medical issues are being kicked down the road. so we save lives from the virus, but watch all these abandoned(what Hippocratic oath) medical issues kill the others. aurora has under 200 TOTAL patients in all of their facilities. some have ZERO. but the poor guy with a psa of 17 has his appointment pushed out to october
oh, but abortion clinics are considered essential?
this is what gubmint run health care looks like
I'm aware you're in healthcare. So I would expect you understand the difference between urgent/emergent needs and routine care. Routine care is being delayed as tolerated right now.
So, please tell me what "significant" medical issue is being "kicked down the road"? What doctors are neglecting their oaths? What patients are dying as a result of being ignored?
This crap gets me fired up.
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I'm aware you're in healthcare. So I would expect you understand the difference between urgent/emergent needs and routine care. Routine care is being delayed as tolerated right now.
So, please tell me what "significant" medical issue is being "kicked down the road"? What doctors are neglecting their oaths? What patients are dying as a result of being ignored?
This crap gets me fired up.
Hospitals are sitting empty. Floors are pulled from normal service, to handle COVID cases. Medical systems are furloughing doctors and nurses. Hospitals are losing revenue. Surgeries and treatments are postponed. Read the news, it's not that hard.
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I'm aware you're in healthcare. So I would expect you understand the difference between urgent/emergent needs and routine care. Routine care is being delayed as tolerated right now.
So, please tell me what "significant" medical issue is being "kicked down the road"? What doctors are neglecting their oaths? What patients are dying as a result of being ignored?
This crap gets me fired up.
I think it’s all significant. Once we’ve seen the virus doesn’t need nearly the attention the “models” were telling the “experts” time to re-adjust and get back to treating everything that was pushed aside. Triage and appoint. Have a whole separate section for coronavirus and a designated team. Get back to hernias cardio, cancer, diagnostic, preventive...all of it.
We have auxiliary hospitals and beds going up that we will never use. The ships docked out in New York and LA are essentially empty and wasting time, money while we are furloughing healthcare workers.
This isn’t that hard now. Yes we had to go thru a tough period, but now we have a clearer picture. Yes, there could be a rebound but we do have medicines on the way and we are ready. When this first hit, it was like Pearl Harbor. Now we’ve ready. Is it going to be over, absolutely not. Going to take time, just like all the other pandemics
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I think it’s all significant. Once we’ve seen the virus doesn’t need nearly the attention the “models” were telling the “experts” time to re-adjust and get back to treating everything that was pushed aside. Triage and appoint. Have a whole separate section for coronavirus and a designated team. Get back to hernias cardio, cancer, diagnostic, preventive...all of it.
We have auxiliary hospitals and beds going up that we will never use. The ships docked out in New York and LA are essentially empty and wasting time, money while we are furloughing healthcare workers.
This isn’t that hard now. Yes we had to go thru a tough period, but now we have a clearer picture. Yes, there could be a rebound but we do have medicines on the way and we are ready. When this first hit, it was like Pearl Harbor. Now we’ve ready. Is it going to be over, absolutely not. Going to take time, just like all the other pandemics
None of that is what you said earlier.
You made a bunch of claims. So now tell us:
Which doctors are neglecting their oaths?
What patients are dying?
What urgent/emergent medical needs are being ignored?
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Hospitals are sitting empty. Floors are pulled from normal service, to handle COVID cases. Medical systems are furloughing doctors and nurses. Hospitals are losing revenue. Surgeries and treatments are postponed. Read the news, it's not that hard.
I'm aware of those things. I'm experiencing it first hand.
But that has nothing to do with the list of things rocket claimed.
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We have auxiliary hospitals and beds going up that we will never use. The ships docked out in New York and LA are essentially empty and wasting time, money while we are furloughing healthcare workers.
You really don't understand the things your saying.
NYC would have loved to send patients from their overburdened systems to the ships...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/nyregion/ny-coronavirus-usns-comfort.html
But the reality has been different. A tangle of military protocols and bureaucratic hurdles has prevented the Comfort from accepting many patients at all.
On top of its strict rules preventing people infected with the virus from coming on board, the Navy is also refusing to treat a host of other conditions. Guidelines disseminated to hospitals included a list of 49 medical conditions that would exclude a patient from admittance to the ship.
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You really don't understand the things your saying.
NYC would have loved to send patients from their overburdened systems to the ships...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/nyregion/ny-coronavirus-usns-comfort.html
Ope, Wisconsin thread here, aina.
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Ope, Wisconsin thread here, aina.
Thankfully it looks as though, unlike our federal government, many states are learning from what they are seeing from places being hit ahead of them and being proactive in their approach rather than being reactive.
If we had a leader at the top our country might actually be ready to reopen by now. Sadly we don’t and we need to stay home for at least another month. Maybe our federal government will be prepared by then? But I doubt it!
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Thankfully it looks as though, unlike our federal government, many states are learning from what they are seeing from places being hit ahead of them and being proactive in their approach rather than being reactive.
If we had a leader at the top our country might actually be ready to reopen by now. Sadly we don’t and we need to stay home for at least another month. Maybe our federal government will be prepared by then? But I doubt it!
What will be different on May 26th as opposed to April 26th other then thousands of more people losing jobs that will make you more comfortable to reopen then instead of in a couple weeks?
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What will be different on May 26th as opposed to April 26th other then thousands of more people losing jobs that will make you more comfortable to reopen then instead of in a couple weeks?
Maybe by then everyone will have a test ad promised by the president a month ago.
Or maybe the weather will be warm enough for the spring miracle we were promised and the April 0 cases will be met.
But mainly the testing should be further along.
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Ope, Wisconsin thread here, aina.
Tell our buddy rocket. He brought up ships in NY and LA. Unless you think those are in WI.
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Tell our buddy rocket. He brought up ships in NY and LA. Unless you think those are in WI.
Come on man, I was using the ship docked in ny and LA as examples of the healthcare facilities run amok We moved them into position because the “experts” said they were going to be 2.2 million dead and our system would be overwhelmed. Ok, always to have more food than ya need when having guests over, but once ya see only 10 of your invited 20 guests came over, ya don’t keep ordering more pizza or Arby’s or whatever. If ya do, at least give The leftovers away to a food pantry or your neighbors college kids or something
Time to reopen the parts of the hospitals that are unused and resume regular healthcare practices to employ the furloughed nurses and help mr/ms Smith with their colonoscopies
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Bo, which system? (Guessing GHC, since you give the Grinch massages. 8-) 8-) )
Bo I think works in a hospital in the MKE area. Also I don’t know think GHC physicians are able to follow their patients in the hospital. Could be wrong.
I do worry what’s happened to all of the “other patients.” Our ED/ER was running about 25% of normal the past month. This week I would say it’s closer to 40-50%. By the way, this is a world wide thing. We will probably see a surge of patients with chest pain, wounds, high BP, etc. now.
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oops, just noted your post now-"multiple errors" admitting to "none"? source? go review how H1N1 was handled by you know who and get back to me.
1st case documented 4/18/2009
6/11/2001-WHO issues pandemic alert
10/24/2009-obama declares public health emergency-this after more than 1000 people had already DIED
i don't remember near the hysteria and/or hard 24/7 condemnations of obama during this time during our first "scandal free" administration of course. let all the arse covering begin in 3...2...1...
regardless of whether not admittance was made of any "misunderstanding", corrections have been continually been made along the way. if you are waiting to see anything good or at least "acceptable" on cnn, msnbc, abc, cbs, nbc, huffpost, bloomberg, et.al. it will never happen. our country has been carpet bombed with all bad news for a number of reasons-tds and "the experts narrative"
If only we could factcheck this...oh wait, we can:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-h1n1-swine-flu-pandemic-spin/
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Hospitals are sitting empty. Floors are pulled from normal service, to handle COVID cases. Medical systems are furloughing doctors and nurses.
This is one of the things that really isn't sitting well with me and is making me very nervous about the future. About a month ago, we were told, essentially, that we cannot contain this thing and that we needed to slow the spread so that our health care system didn't get overwhelmed. I believed that then and, frankly, I still believe it. Maybe even more now than then. But most states (including my own) were were not even close to capacity in the health care system. I fully understand that a handful of areas were overwhelmed, but that was definitely not the norm.
So, I am concerned that the isolation/mitigation worked too well. When we "open things back up", I cannot envision a scenario where this doesn't explode again. Cases will go up. And, frankly, in keeping with the inevitable infection/flatten the curve theory of handling that pandemic, cases should go up. That would be a feature, not a flaw as people sometimes say. I'm fully aware of how callous that sounds. It sincerely bothers me that I feel this way. But if we cannot stop this thing, it seems that we should be shooting for a rate of infection that pushes the system close to the breaking point, but not over it. And I think people are going to absolutely lose their s*#t when this happens.
I'm finding it difficult to feel optimistic right now.
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This is one of the things that really isn't sitting well with me and is making me very nervous about the future. About a month ago, we were told, essentially, that we cannot contain this thing and that we needed to slow the spread so that our health care system didn't get overwhelmed. I believed that then and, frankly, I still believe it. Maybe even more now than then. But in most states (including my own) were were not even close to capacity in the health care system. I fully understand that a handful of areas were overwhelmed, but that was definitely not the norm.
So, I am concerned that the isolation/mitigation worked too well. When we "open things back up", I cannot envision a scenario where this doesn't explode again. Cases will go up. And, frankly, in keeping with the inevitable infection/flatten the curve theory of handling that pandemic, cases should go up. That would be a feature, not a flaw as people sometimes say. I'm fully aware of how callous that sounds. It sincerely bothers me that I feel this way. But if we cannot stop this thing, it seems that we should be shooting for a rate of infection that pushes the system close to the breaking point, but not over it. And I think people are going to absolutely lose their s*#t when this happens.
I'm finding it difficult to feel optimistic right now.
I don't disagree, but social distancing is the most simplistic & bluntest tools at our disposal. It controls the virus but exacts high societal harm elsewhere (better than uncontrolled virus, but not great).
Better therapy is a step in the right direction - we needed to buy the scientists time to do their work. This can just get the throughput up in the hospitals then we can successfully handle more (and protect life and allow people to take greater risk).
If we can ramp up testing & contact tracing that can be another step to stamping out the virus. Being smarter on who needs to be isolated. Finding the asymptomatic and stopping them from spreading. Finding the immune - get their plasma and get them to work.
Finally vaccine. What probably gets us back to the old world.
So don't scream about when to turn the blunt tool on and off--yell about getting more sophisticated. More testing supplies, PPE, better systems to contact trace. What can we do nationally and locally to help speed up the scientists.
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We moved them into position because the “experts” said they were going to be 2.2 million dead and our system would be overwhelmed.
That was the projection if nothing was done to flatten the curve. As predictable as the sunrise, when social distancing actually worked, people like you think that proves we didn't need to do it in the first place. You are quite the "healthcare professional".
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I think it’s all significant. Once we’ve seen the virus doesn’t need nearly the attention the “models” were telling the “experts” time to re-adjust and get back to treating everything that was pushed aside. Triage and appoint. Have a whole separate section for coronavirus and a designated team. Get back to hernias cardio, cancer, diagnostic, preventive...all of it.
We have auxiliary hospitals and beds going up that we will never use. The ships docked out in New York and LA are essentially empty and wasting time, money while we are furloughing healthcare workers.
This isn’t that hard now. Yes we had to go thru a tough period, but now we have a clearer picture. Yes, there could be a rebound but we do have medicines on the way and we are ready. When this first hit, it was like Pearl Harbor. Now we’ve ready. Is it going to be over, absolutely not. Going to take time, just like all the other pandemics
It is truly breathtaking to see your evolution about this topic over the last three months. Do you remember when we used to agree on most things early on? Now you've done a 180 and got your marching orders from your masters and have stopped thinking for yourself. It's really too bad, and its hard to watch this happen to someone in real time.
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I think it’s all significant. Once we’ve seen the virus doesn’t need nearly the attention the “models” were telling the “experts” time to re-adjust and get back to treating everything that was pushed aside.
You do realize the reason things are better than expected is BECAUSE of efforts like safer at home right?? You are not seriously going to fall for the gaslighting that it was never that serious to begin with are you??
(Hold on. What a stupid question. Of COURSE you are....)
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It is truly breathtaking to see your evolution about this topic over the last three months. Do you remember when we used to agree on most things early on? Now you've done a 180 and got your marching orders from your masters and have stopped thinking for yourself. It's really too bad, and its hard to watch this happen to someone in real time.
Honestly I would be fine if someone said "look, I know Trump handled this wrong, but I am still voting for him because of x, y and z." At least that it is an intellectually honest position.
But to fall victim to simple political manipulation is so sad and pathetic.
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What will be different on May 26th as opposed to April 26th other then thousands of more people losing jobs that will make you more comfortable to reopen then instead of in a couple weeks?
As wades mentioned...testing.
Also, cases should be going down by that point. (They are stil rising.) Everyone has said from the beginning that you need to go two weeks past peak. May 26 *should* be beyond that timeframe. I think they probably could have gone a week or two earlier, but things may change and things could open up earlier.
But the biggest issue here is that our safety net sucks in the United States. We would be able to weather this a lot better if we actually cared about providing a safety net instead of spending the last 40 years sitting back and making moral judgements against those who have to use it.
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Honestly I would be fine if someone said "look, I know Trump handled this wrong, but I am still voting for him because of x, y and z." At least that it is an intellectually honest position.
But to fall victim to simple political manipulation is so sad and pathetic.
And that's what kills me too. But I guess it's easier to con a man than for him to admit that he's been conned.
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That was the projection if nothing was done to flatten the curve. As predictable as the sunrise, when social distancing actually worked, people like you think that proves we didn't need to do it in the first place. You are quite the "healthcare professional".
Oh to be able to be soooo wrong about a model or projection is rich. If trump came out with numbers this far off, as an “expert” no less, we know what comes next. Let’s see, originally the death rate was pegged at over 2.2 million, then 600,000, then 120,000 and now...maybe 60-80.000?
Classic ending with the personal attack though-you’re keeping Saul proud
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Oh to be able to be soooo wrong about a model or projection is rich. If trump came out with numbers this far off, as an “expert” no less, we know what comes next. Let’s see, originally the death rate was pegged at over 2.2 million, then 600,000, then 120,000 and now...maybe 60-80.000?
Again, you are being (willfully?) ignorant about what exactly was being said earlier about what measures like safter at home would do. You are falling for exactly what people said others would fall for.
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As wades mentioned...testing.
Also, cases should be going down by that point. (They are stil rising.) Everyone has said from the beginning that you need to go two weeks past peak. May 26 *should* be beyond that timeframe. I think they probably could have gone a week or two earlier, but things may change and things could open up earlier.
My concern is if we finally get the testing capacity some time in the next month, the numbers with skyrocket due to the asymptomatic positives. And we'll be talking about another extension into late June, which would have it's own awful consequences.
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My concern is if we finally get the testing capacity some time in the next month, the numbers with skyrocket due to the asymptomatic positives. And we'll be talking about another extension into late June, which would have it's own awful consequences.
I understand that. But I also understand we can't just wait until everything is perfect. I actually think May 26 is on the far edge of people's willingness to comply with this policy.
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Again, you are being (willfully?) ignorant about what exactly was being said earlier about what measures like safter at home would do. You are falling for exactly what people said others would fall for.
au contraire Pierre, you are completely missing my point. Probably my fault for not being clear and I’ll give you that. But, what I’m trying to say is as the dooms day numbers continue to fall, abandon the plan that was based on the dooms day numbers and start to level off our approach to keep our health care system doing what it is supposed to be doing. Shift the 110%focus on coronavirus to even 50/50 and reintroducing the healthcare that has been pushed to the side- everything else. We can triage and designate specific areas of the hospitals to coronavirus, continue “flattening the curve” while attending to everything else in other areas
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au contraire Pierre, you are completely missing my point. Probably my fault for not being clear and I’ll give you that. But, what I’m trying to say is as the dooms day numbers continue to fall, abandon the plan that was based on the dooms day numbers and start to level off our approach to keep our health care system doing what it is supposed to be doing. Shift the 110%focus on coronavirus to even 50/50 and reintroducing the healthcare that has been pushed to the side- everything else. We can triage and designate specific areas of the hospitals to coronavirus, continue “flattening the curve” while attending to everything else in other areas
My apologies. I am not smart enough about hospitalization and health care to know what the right answer is, but I don't disagree with much that you said.
My father had a procedure done earlier this week and I know that my mom and him felt very good about how everything was handled considering the circumstances. So things are happening.
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My concern is if we finally get the testing capacity some time in the next month, the numbers with skyrocket due to the asymptomatic positives. And we'll be talking about another extension into late June, which would have it's own awful consequences.
Here is the difference. If you have widespread testing and contact tracing you can just tell THOSE people to stay home.
We have the capability to be smarter about this, use technology, etc. So many resources at our disposal beyond "Open & Shut".
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My concern is if we finally get the testing capacity some time in the next month, the numbers with skyrocket due to the asymptomatic positives. And we'll be talking about another extension into late June, which would have it's own awful consequences.
I think that if the numbers skyrocket due to increased testing capacity -- but there is no corresponding increase in hospitalizations -- we'll probably be fine.
But as many here have said many, many times, testing is absolutely vital. None of this matters for crap if we don't have universally available tests.
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I think that if the numbers skyrocket due to increased testing capacity -- but there is no corresponding increase in hospitalizations -- we'll probably be fine.
But as many here have said many, many times, testing is absolutely vital. None of this matters for crap if we don't have universally available tests.
Exactly, its better to know, and have the numbers be high and accurate than to pretend like we don't have problems. Confirmed positive cases shouldn't freak people out. In fact, they should be reassuring to know that we have a bunch of the population that already has it without having to be hospitalized. Brings down IFR and CFR.
Information is power, and testing is information.
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Oh to be able to be soooo wrong about a model or projection is rich. If trump came out with numbers this far off, as an “expert” no less, we know what comes next. Let’s see, originally the death rate was pegged at over 2.2 million, then 600,000, then 120,000 and now...maybe 60-80.000?
Trump himself uses the 2.2M figure you fool! It is the baseline estimate if nothing was done. How can you possibly not understand this?
"Trump cited projection models that said potentially 2.2 million people or more could have died had the country tried to “wing it” and not put social distancing measures in place. “I kept asking and we did models,” he said. “These are 2.2 million people would have died."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/trump-says-keeping-us-covid-19-deaths-to-100000-would-be-a-very-good-job
Classic ending with the personal attack though-you’re keeping Saul proud
Personal attack? When you keep referring to the doctors, mathematicians, and scientists who have worked on the models as "experts", I presume you are using the quotations marks as an acknowledgement of their deep subject matter expertise in this area. I thought you should be granted the exact same level of respect, "healthcare professional".
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au contraire Pierre, you are completely missing my point. Probably my fault for not being clear and I’ll give you that. But, what I’m trying to say is as the dooms day numbers continue to fall, abandon the plan that was based on the dooms day numbers and start to level off our approach to keep our health care system doing what it is supposed to be doing. Shift the 110%focus on coronavirus to even 50/50 and reintroducing the healthcare that has been pushed to the side- everything else. We can triage and designate specific areas of the hospitals to coronavirus, continue “flattening the curve” while attending to everything else in other areas
Hospitals are already doing this...
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https://www.foxnews.com/us/lawsuit-claims-teen-threatened-with-arrest-over-coronavirus-posts
Wisconsin, threatening to arrest a kid for disorderly conduct for posting about her recovering from COVID. The reason, creating undue alarm, since she had a clinical diagnosis instead of a positive test result
By the time she was able to get a COVID test, apparently she was out of the window where it would have tested positive.
Yay us, silencing the population.
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https://www.foxnews.com/us/lawsuit-claims-teen-threatened-with-arrest-over-coronavirus-posts
Wisconsin, threatening to arrest a kid for disorderly conduct for posting about her recovering from COVID. The reason, creating undue alarm, since she had a clinical diagnosis instead of a positive test result
By the time she was able to get a COVID test, apparently she was out of the window where it would have tested positive.
Yay us, silencing the population.
Getting your news from Fox now, aina?
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Was the girl being dramatic and over the top? Probably. Was the sherrif out of line, 100%. Take his badge. Power hungry.
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Getting your news from Fox now, aina?
I always read all the news sources. At least, to me, it is important to get a wide view of how people are thinking.
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Idiots
https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/1251540121859641344?s=19 (https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/1251540121859641344?s=19)
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Idiots
https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/1251540121859641344?s=19 (https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/1251540121859641344?s=19)
A live look at all the boomers thinning their herd! At least a lot of conservatives will be going out of their way to suppress their own votes by November!
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Idiots
https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/1251540121859641344?s=19 (https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/1251540121859641344?s=19)
An adjustment to the gene pool may be coming to the area soon.
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A live look at all the boomers thinning their herd! At least a lot of conservatives will be going out of their way to suppress their own votes by November!
If there was someway for these people to keep it to themselves, I'd say go for it. But they are going to spread it in grocery stores, pharmacies, gas stations, home improvement stores, etc. etc.
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if they do come down w/COVID, safe to say they won't be spreading it at future Mensa meetings
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Personally I believe we need to stay shut and follow the federal guidelines for reopening. But it's incredibly callous to not recognize the damage that these safer at home orders are doing to people's lives. Especially if you live in areas outside of Madison and Milwaukee where the majority of the state's cases are. We have no idea what these protestors do for a living, but if you've lost your job or had your small business decimated because of this(like me), you would be upset too. Now I'm not going out there to protest nor would I want my family to, but I do recognize that every day we stay shut, the economic devastation starts to rival the health costs of the virus itself. I'm not saying its an easy decision one way or the other, but its not a slam-dunk like a few people out there seem to think. That goes for both sides of the argument too.
At the very least, in announcing May 26th as his date, I would've liked to hear the Governor provide his reasoning as to that specific date and what the state is going to do in the meantime to meet that target for reopening. Give people the science behind your reasoning as to why the 26th is say better than the 15th or the 11th. Tell people how you are going to procure adequate tests in that timeframe. But he provided none or very little of that.
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Idiots
https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/1251540121859641344?s=19 (https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/1251540121859641344?s=19)
What is hilarious about this beyond the stupidity of what they are doing is that it’s almost certain that all these people voted our incompetent administration into office. We’d be weeks ahead of where we are now if we didn’t have a clown show going on in Washington DC. And the only person who can speed this up is the clown at the top, but he is not willing to do so. So these people first need to look in the mirror and realize they’re at fault here and then turn their attention to getting Trump to get the CDC involved. It’s not like Evers is acting alone or wanting to do this. Nobody is “opening back up” because it’s not safe to and won’t be until the “leader” of the free world starts acting like one.
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What is hilarious about this beyond the stupidity of what they are doing is that it’s almost certain that all these people voted our incompetent administration into office. We’d be weeks ahead of where we are now if we didn’t have a clown show going on in Washington DC. And the only person who can speed this up is the clown at the top, but he is not willing to do so. So these people first need to look in the mirror and realize they’re at fault here and then turn their attention to getting Trump to get the CDC involved. It’s not like Evers is acting alone or wanting to do this. Nobody is “opening back up” because it’s not safe to and won’t be until the “leader” of the free world starts acting like one.
Until the clown uses the DPA to force companies to produce hundreds of millions of quick tests, there really is any way things will get better. The CDC can't produce the tests we need.
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If there was someway for these people to keep it to themselves, I'd say go for it. But they are going to spread it in grocery stores, pharmacies, gas stations, home improvement stores, etc. etc.
Keep what to themselves?
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Keep what to themselves?
The virus.
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Personally I believe we need to stay shut and follow the federal guidelines for reopening. But it's incredibly callous to not recognize the damage that these safer at home orders are doing to people's lives. Especially if you live in areas outside of Madison and Milwaukee where the majority of the state's cases are. We have no idea what these protestors do for a living, but if you've lost your job or had your small business decimated because of this(like me), you would be upset too. Now I'm not going out there to protest nor would I want my family to, but I do recognize that every day we stay shut, the economic devastation starts to rival the health costs of the virus itself. I'm not saying its an easy decision one way or the other, but its not a slam-dunk like a few people out there seem to think. That goes for both sides of the argument too.
At the very least, in announcing May 26th as his date, I would've liked to hear the Governor provide his reasoning as to that specific date and what the state is going to do in the meantime to meet that target for reopening. Give people the science behind your reasoning as to why the 26th is say better than the 15th or the 11th. Tell people how you are going to procure adequate tests in that timeframe. But he provided none or very little of that.
I don’t disagree with you. But going out and protesting about it is a stupid way to respond and may actually do more harm than good.
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Personally I believe we need to stay shut and follow the federal guidelines for reopening. But it's incredibly callous to not recognize the damage that these safer at home orders are doing to people's lives. Especially if you live in areas outside of Madison and Milwaukee where the majority of the state's cases are. We have no idea what these protestors do for a living, but if you've lost your job or had your small business decimated because of this(like me), you would be upset too. Now I'm not going out there to protest nor would I want my family to, but I do recognize that every day we stay shut, the economic devastation starts to rival the health costs of the virus itself. I'm not saying its an easy decision one way or the other, but its not a slam-dunk like a few people out there seem to think. That goes for both sides of the argument too.
At the very least, in announcing May 26th as his date, I would've liked to hear the Governor provide his reasoning as to that specific date and what the state is going to do in the meantime to meet that target for reopening. Give people the science behind your reasoning as to why the 26th is say better than the 15th or the 11th. Tell people how you are going to procure adequate tests in that timeframe. But he provided none or very little of that.
Very fair points.
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The virus.
I mean...duh.
Rocket has just gone off the deep end the last couple of days.
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Isn’t it ironic?
I see people today demanding that their state be opened back up protesting from inside their cars.
I see people today demanding that their state be opened back up wearing masks.
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Oh to be able to be soooo wrong about a model or projection is rich. If trump came out with numbers this far off, as an “expert” no less, we know what comes next. Let’s see, originally the death rate was pegged at over 2.2 million, then 600,000, then 120,000 and now...maybe 60-80.000?
Classic ending with the personal attack though-you’re keeping Saul proud
You are both wrong and right on this. The same for those attacking you.
The models were wrong, the Univ of Washington, CDC, and others stated so this week. Why were they wrong? Data keeps changing. Testing. Social distancing worked and brought the numbers down.
There is no question social distancing and stay at home has brought the numbers down.
Where you are right is in areas that have not chosen to go to those extremes the cases are higher, but nowhere on the trajectory the original models had predicted.
As is often the case here, both sides have a point and the answer is somewhere not quite with the extreme opinions of both dug in parties.
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We won't know how many cases there are/were until there is universal testing. I have little doubt that the number of Americans who currently have antibodies reaches 8 figures.
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There’s a protest of dozen happening in Genoa City at the state line. They’re next to the northbound lanes.
Mostly Trump flags.
They can all be thinned out by the looks of it.
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There’s a protest of dozen happening in Genoa City at the state line. They’re next to the northbound lanes.
Mostly Trump flags.
They can all be thinned out by the looks of it.
So you're saying they have a lot of comorbidities.
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This is from California but still....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV6UFO8XkAAeYb8?format=jpg&name=small)
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careful what you wish for lady...you may get both real soon
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This is from California but still....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV6UFO8XkAAeYb8?format=jpg&name=small)
Incredible...i just noticed that 31 is part of their logo
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Oh man, you should check out the FedEx and Tostitos logos next 8-)
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I mean...duh.
Rocket has just gone off the deep end the last couple of days.
When someone can’t realize sarcasm, and I’ve gone off the deep end? Hot damn I’ll use teal next time!! Holy fu#*@#**$# me
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Anybody know where I can pick up some DNR bracelets? Thinking about driving by these "protests" (hilarious that some of them are protesting to open up the state while wearing a mask...) and tossing them out to these people.
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But it's incredibly callous to not recognize the damage that these safer at home orders are doing to people's lives. .
There are people not recognizing this?
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Incredible...i just noticed that 31 is part of their logo
That is stunning it took you that long to realize it. I’ve known it since.....reading your post. ;D
Off to go look at my bag of tostitos.
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That is stunning it took you that long to realize it. I’ve known it since.....reading your post. ;D
Off to go look at my bag of tostitos.
I just noticed too.
But I've never been to a Baskin Robbins before.
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Confederate flags out at the protests in Brookfield today. So proud of my hometown.
Embarrassing.
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Confederate flags out at the protests in Brookfield today. So proud of my hometown.
Embarrassing.
Maybe they were from Southern Brookfield? ;D
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Confederate flags out at the protests in Brookfield today. So proud of my hometown.
Embarrassing.
Did you actually see one? No mention from the on scene Journal/Sentinel reporter:
“Many in the protest brought American and Gadsden flags along with homemade signs, with the bulk calling for the reopening of churches, the parks and the state economy. There were signs and T-shirts protesting Gov. Evers directly, along with Donald Trump and Mike Pence 2020 campaign signs, flags and bumper stickers.“
The reason I ask is a friend who drove through on Bluemound sent me video and said “at least no one had a Confederate flag.”
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the traitor flag was there
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the traitor flag was there
Dang. That’s so terribly ugly.
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This is mike Wallace question to Nancy pelosini -either she is losing it like uncle joe, is disingenuous, is completely tone deaf and they call potus a dictator??
Mike Wallace:
People are taking to the streets, pushing back against some of the more stringent restrictions in some states," Wallace said during the interview, which is set to air Sunday on Fox News Channel. "Can you understand why they're doing that?"
Pelosi responded: "No, not, not really because what we have to do is, is, is shelter in place. That is really the answer."
Is is is is is is is
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Didn’t mike Wallace die in 2012
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This is mike Wallace question to Nancy pelosini -either she is losing it like uncle joe, is disingenuous, is completely tone deaf and they call potus a dictator??
Mike Wallace:
People are taking to the streets, pushing back against some of the more stringent restrictions in some states," Wallace said during the interview, which is set to air Sunday on Fox News Channel. "Can you understand why they're doing that?"
Pelosi responded: "No, not, not really because what we have to do is, is, is shelter in place. That is really the answer."
Is is is is is is is
Still waiting for you to tell us which doctors are breaking their oaths. Or which patients aren't being cared for that have urgent or emergent conditions
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This is mike Wallace question to Nancy pelosini -either she is losing it like uncle joe, is disingenuous, is completely tone deaf and they call potus a dictator??
Mike Wallace:
People are taking to the streets, pushing back against some of the more stringent restrictions in some states," Wallace said during the interview, which is set to air Sunday on Fox News Channel. "Can you understand why they're doing that?"
Pelosi responded: "No, not, not really because what we have to do is, is, is shelter in place. That is really the answer."
Is is is is is is is
Mike Wallace died liked 8 years ago.
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This is mike Wallace question to Nancy pelosini -either she is losing it like uncle joe, is disingenuous, is completely tone deaf and they call potus a dictator??
Mike Wallace:
People are taking to the streets, pushing back against some of the more stringent restrictions in some states," Wallace said during the interview, which is set to air Sunday on Fox News Channel. "Can you understand why they're doing that?"
Pelosi responded: "No, not, not really because what we have to do is, is, is shelter in place. That is really the answer."
Is is is is is is is
She seems to have it more together than the people out on the sidewalk protesting to open things up because everything is “safe”...while wearing a mask lol.
Or than the people flying a confederate flag...while in a state that fought for the union.
Heck. Her response sounds a lot like your posting often does, hey now aina der hey?
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tick tock, how long before the guy with the losing side's flag gets doxed?
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We won't know how many cases there are/were until there is universal testing. I have little doubt that the number of Americans who currently have antibodies reaches 8 figures.
If (huge if) the numbers from Santa Clara County reflect the rest of the US, 50 to 80 times the numbers of confirmed cases have the anti bodies. That would be between 37 and 59 million.
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Ok, which one of you is this?
(https://snipboard.io/hsDmyQ.jpg)
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Of all the unmitigated gall- arrest this man and throw away the key already!
https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/dining/carol-deptolla/2020/04/18/owner-jacksons-pub-tosa-says-he-open-dining-room-may-1/5161107002/
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Of all the unmitigated gall- arrest this man and throw away the key already!
https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/dining/carol-deptolla/2020/04/18/owner-jacksons-pub-tosa-says-he-open-dining-room-may-1/5161107002/
"I feel like our constitutional rights are being taken from us. And I’m just not willing anymore. What’s going to happen is going to happen," he said.
--Yet another bozo who professes love for the Constitution but doesn't understand the Constitution.
Anyway, he should be cited, asked to shut down and if that doesn't work, he should have his liqor license removed.
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"I feel like our constitutional rights are being taken from us. And I’m just not willing anymore. What’s going to happen is going to happen," he said.
--Yet another bozo who professes love for the Constitution but doesn't understand the Constitution.
Anyway, he should be cited, asked to shut down and if that doesn't work, he should have his liqor license removed.
It’s a con. For the next two weeks will say he will plan to open (he won’t), and when doesn’t open, will blame Evers, set up a GoFundMe, go on talk radio, rinse and repeat.
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This is mike Wallace question to Nancy pelosini -either she is losing it like uncle joe, is disingenuous, is completely tone deaf and they call potus a dictator??
Mike Wallace:
People are taking to the streets, pushing back against some of the more stringent restrictions in some states," Wallace said during the interview, which is set to air Sunday on Fox News Channel. "Can you understand why they're doing that?"
Pelosi responded: "No, not, not really because what we have to do is, is, is shelter in place. That is really the answer."
Is is is is is is is
Your critique is that she said "is" three times instead of two?
Well you sure just totally owned those people that said you couldn't get any dumber.
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Didn’t mike Wallace die in 2012
Ahh yes, Freudian slip, Chris is kind of Douchie
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So legitimate question, what is the goal of the May 26th date, what do we hope to achieve by staying "closed" until that date?
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Ahh yes, Freudian slip, Chris is kind of Douchie
So yours is a Freudian slip while hers is evidence she is losing it. Gotcha.
(http://media.giphy.com/media/L29fiOMSDhhvi/giphy.gif)
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Of all the unmitigated gall- arrest this man and throw away the key already!
https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/dining/carol-deptolla/2020/04/18/owner-jacksons-pub-tosa-says-he-open-dining-room-may-1/5161107002/
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So legitimate question, what is the goal of the May 26th date, what do we hope to achieve by staying "closed" until that date?
To have the number of cases heading downwards for two weeks. And I think they want to get past the Memorial Day holiday.
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Ahh yes, Freudian slip, Chris is kind of Douchie
Yes, Chris Wallace has the temerity to be one of the only people on Fox News to not bend the knee and kiss your emperor's ring. What a douche.
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To have the number of cases heading downwards for two weeks. And I think they want to get past the Memorial Day holiday.
Ok, fine but the virus isn't going to be eradicated by that time right?
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Ok, fine but the virus isn't going to be eradicated by that time right?
Of course not. They are trying to do what's been stated from the beginning. Flattening the curve.
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So legitimate question, what is the goal of the May 26th date, what do we hope to achieve by staying "closed" until that date?
Great question, of which the Evers administration has offered zero metrics, just vague statements about flattening the curve.
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If (huge if) the numbers from Santa Clara County reflect the rest of the US, 50 to 80 times the numbers of confirmed cases have the anti bodies. That would be between 37 and 59 million.
I know most zoomed past this, but it is reassuring news from a great source.
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It’s a con. For the next two weeks will say he will plan to open (he won’t), and when doesn’t open, will blame Evers, set up a GoFundMe, go on talk radio, rinse and repeat.
You forgot the part where he launches an unsuccessful political career. Otherwise, I have also seen this movie before.
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To have the number of cases heading downwards for two weeks. And I think they want to get past the Memorial Day holiday.
Well, at least that’s more specific than anything from Evers and his administration. Thank you for playing WTH Has to Happen For Wisconsin to Reopen?
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Great question, of which the Evers administration has offered zero metrics, just vague statements about flattening the curve.
What "metrics" do you want to have offered? The order that was issued last week specifically talks about preventing a spike in the health care system, and having time to increasing testing contact tracing capacity, etc.
It's stated right in the order. Which my guess is that people didn't actually read.
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Well, at least that’s more specific than anything from Evers and his administration. Thank you for playing WTH Has to Happen For Wisconsin to Reopen?
Simply not true. It's right in the order itself. Did you read it?
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Ok, fine but the virus isn't going to be eradicated by that time right?
Part of it is to give businesses time to get PPE for employees. I know many businesses have had their PPE shipments intercepted by FEMA.
Also, you want open up safely. Will restaurants be at 50% capacity? Only single use serving vessels - so need to get those in house.
Setup plans for workers to remain 6' apart at all times while at work. New sanitizing procedures for offices.
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Well, at least that’s more specific than anything from Evers and his administration. Thank you for playing WTH Has to Happen For Wisconsin to Reopen?
Why is everyone pretending like they don't know. A month from now we have better testing (because it can't get worse, can it?), we have... wait for it...
INFORMATION
Also, potentially, it buys us treatment development. It buys us time to get PPE for our HCWs.
Jesus Christ, this isn't difficult to understand... unless, of course, you're not TRYING to understand or think about it... and you have political motivations.
Hold up.
Wait a minute.
That's exactly what it is.
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Of course not. They are trying to do what's been stated from the beginning. Flattening the curve.
But the curve is flattening.....hospital capacity is up, Hospitalizations and ICU stays are down which was what I thought the goal was all along. Why do we need 6 more weeks of full shutdown, meaning what more will be accomplished? I mean hospitals in the area are starting to furlough workers because they don't have "normal" operations to do and the Covid case load is well below peak right now.
Please note I am not arguing against a shut down nor against continuing it and I certainly agree we need a phased reopening but I am struggling to understand 6 more weeks of shut down untethered to any metrics or goals other than a vague flatten the curve statement.
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But the curve is flattening.....hospital capacity is up, Hospitalizations and ICU stays are down which was what I thought the goal was all along. Why do we need 6 more weeks of full shutdown, meaning what more will be accomplished? I mean hospitals in the area are starting to furlough workers because they don't have "normal" operations to do and the Covid case load is well below peak right now.
Please note I am not arguing against a shut down nor against continuing it and I certainly agree we need a phased reopening but I am struggling to understand 6 more weeks of shut down untethered to any metrics or goals other than a vague flatten the curve statement.
I know I mentioned it pages ago, and I'm not going to hold you to read every post of every page in this monster of a thread... but Evers can always walk back 6 weeks to 2 or 3 weeks. Imagine if he said 2 or 3 weeks, and we had cases go up (like they are in Brown County) and then told everyone they had to extend shelter in place through June.
Easier to walk it back than to extend it.
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Part of it is to give businesses time to get PPE for employees. I know many businesses have had their PPE shipments intercepted by FEMA.
Also, you want open up safely. Will restaurants be at 50% capacity? Only single use serving vessels - so need to get those in house.
Setup plans for workers to remain 6' apart at all times while at work. New sanitizing procedures for offices.
I ultimately agree with all that, then track it and publish the status. I know what metrics are talked about but there is no accountability toward progress. A date is actually meaningless, I agree we need more testing capacity, let's qualify what that need is and track it. By giving dates with vague reasons you are giving a permission structure for these idiots to protest.
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I know I mentioned it pages ago, and I'm not going to hold you to read every post of every page in this monster of a thread... but Evers can always walk back 6 weeks to 2 or 3 weeks. Imagine if he said 2 or 3 weeks, and we had cases go up (like they are in Brown County) and then told everyone they had to extend shelter in place through June.
Easier to walk it back than to extend it.
I don't disagree but governing a virus by dates is dumb
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I ultimately agree with all that, then track it and publish the status. I know what metrics are talked about but there is no accountability toward progress. A date is actually meaningless, I agree we need more testing capacity, let's qualify what that need is and track it. By giving dates with vague reasons you are giving a permission structure for these idiots to protest.
Those idiots are going to protest either way. They aren't driven by logic or reasoning, just blind hatred for Democrats.
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Eng- I’m not in WI but in some form this is true everywhere in the us and the world.
The speed and veracity of the virus means without a good plan it will soon be out of control again.
That’s why we should all be demanding our governments show us the plan for testing, tracing and countermeasures to keep the virus (sick people) out of the public domain.
The debate Nationally seems to be about shutdowns and giving away money.
Boring and pointless IMO. We need to accept this reality and focus on getting us out of the house and back in the world the best as possible.
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I don't disagree but governing a virus by dates is dumb
I sort of feel like you just don't like the date because its far away. What do you suggest? Open ended? That would put a lot more people in the streets.
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What "metrics" do you want to have offered? The order that was issued last week specifically talks about preventing a spike in the health care system, and having time to increasing testing contact tracing capacity, etc.
It's stated right in the order. Which my guess is that people didn't actually read.
Yeah, I did the read the order and the part you provided synopsis about.
Metrics are necessary or else it just looks like a government dictating from on high. Which is what it is.
Metrics like you offered would be a decent start. Metrics about testing, decreased cases over what period of time, availability of PPE for people on the front lines of treatment - what is cited in the new order- that’s what administration needs to do. The list could and should go well beyond these examples too.
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Yeah, I did the read the order and the part you provided synopsis about.
Metrics are necessary or else it just looks like a government dictating from on high. Which is what it is.
Metrics like you offered would be a decent start. Metrics about testing, decreased cases over what period of time, availability of PPE for people on the front lines of treatment - what is cited in the new order- that’s what administration needs to do. The list could and should go well beyond these examples too.
Yes. I am sure all of the people who are complaining and protesting, would be just fine if they provided "metrics."
And yes, sometimes government dictates from on-high. That's life in a pandemic. I mean, we are talking about a couple of months here. Let's not act as though we are dealing with some sort of oppressive regime here.
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I sort of feel like you just don't like the date because its far away. What do you suggest? Open ended? That would put a lot more people in the streets.
-how many daily tests need to be available in a phase 1 reopening, phase n reopening?
-what is the target hospital utilization rate and what rate of change represents an indicator of reopening?
-What level of PPE capacity at hospitals is sufficient for phased reopening?
-What level of PPE availability at a work place is sufficient for reopening?
-What infrastructure needs to be minimally in place to allow phased reopening?
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-how many daily tests need to be available in a phase 1 reopening, phase n reopening?
-what is the target hospital utilization rate and what rate of change represents an indicator of reopening?
-What level of PPE capacity at hospitals is sufficient for phased reopening?
-What level of PPE availability at a work place is sufficient for reopening?
-What infrastructure needs to be minimally in place to allow phased reopening?
Got ya. You'd rather base this on metrics rather than time. I don't disagree with you. I think you just have a lot more faith in the intelligence of people than I do.
You understand this stuff, but the average person won't keep track of it. That's why using a date that all of those things are projected to be accomplished by is better. And if you can accomplish all of the goals you've outlined before that date and we can open up 'early' then people will be happier. If a date is set that is too early, and the goals aren't met and the line gets moved into June people will lose their god damn minds.
We feel the same, I just don't trust the average person to understand as much as you... I think.
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-how many daily tests need to be available in a phase 1 reopening, phase n reopening?
-what is the target hospital utilization rate and what rate of change represents an indicator of reopening?
-What level of PPE capacity at hospitals is sufficient for phased reopening?
-What level of PPE availability at a work place is sufficient for reopening?
-What infrastructure needs to be minimally in place to allow phased reopening?
This is what people should be protesting about (six feet apart of course)
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Yes. I am sure all of the people who are complaining and protesting, would be just fine if they provided "metrics."
And yes, sometimes government dictates from on-high. That's life in a pandemic. I mean, we are talking about a couple of months here. Let's not act as though we are dealing with some sort of oppressive regime here.
You so blithely dismiss a “couple of months”. Tell that to business owners. Tell that to the unemployed. A “couple of months” could and does for many mean the difference of staying on your feet vs ruin.
You’re right about government intervention being necessary from the executive branch in some situations. The public took the initial order and it was followed with almost zero protesting or civil disobedience. The government does work for us, this is how our nation was setup, and if they want to continue measures that directly affect people’s livelihoods, the public deserves answers what needs to happen without vague platitudes.
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Got ya. You'd rather base this on metrics rather than time. I don't disagree with you. I think you just have a lot more faith in the intelligence of people than I do.
You understand this stuff, but the average person won't keep track of it. That's why using a date that all of those things are projected to be accomplished by is better. And if you can accomplish all of the goals you've outlined before that date and we can open up 'early' then people will be happier. If a date is set that is too early, and the goals aren't met and the line gets moved into June people will lose their god damn minds.
We feel the same, I just don't trust the average person to understand as much as you... I think.
If we can't trust people to understand basic metrics we are too dumb to live anyway. You can have a target date "we think we'll hit the target metrics on X date" and I'm sure that is what's going on in the background but you HAVE to show your work here or you're going to lose the public and if you lose the public they are going to start defying the orders which screws us all.
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You so blithely dismiss a “couple of months”. Tell that to business owners. Tell that to the unemployed. A “couple of months” could and does for many mean the difference of staying on your feet vs ruin.
It could also mean the difference between being healhy or severely ill/dead. The economic impact sucks, and I in no way mean to minimize that, but between stimulus checks, low- to no interest small biz loans and enhanced unemployment benefits, there's at least some mitigation for that.
Nothing is going to mitigate being dead.
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Yes. I am sure all of the people who are complaining and protesting, would be just fine if they provided "metrics."
And yes, sometimes government dictates from on-high. That's life in a pandemic. I mean, we are talking about a couple of months here. Let's not act as though we are dealing with some sort of oppressive regime here.
Couple of months can mean the difference between someone staying in the middle class and falling into poverty....the economic impact of this can set families back a generation.
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It could also mean the difference between being healhy or severely ill/dead. The economic impact sucks, and I in no way mean to minimize that, but between stimulus checks, low- to no interest small biz loans and enhanced unemployment benefits, there's at least some mitigation for that.
Nothing is going to mitigate being dead.
Is the bar zero Covid-19 deaths? How many deaths is too many in balance with the potential on the other side that lives are ruined, peoples mental health is significantly impacted, that families fall into poverty? All for the shut down and a continued measured approach but if we're making decisions based on death outcomes give me a number that is "acceptable" because zero isn't the answer
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If we can't trust people to understand basic metrics we are too dumb to live anyway. You can have a target date "we think we'll hit the target metrics on X date" and I'm sure that is what's going on in the background but you HAVE to show your work here or you're going to lose the public and if you lose the public they are going to start defying the orders which screws us all.
You obviously haven't met some of my very blue collar employees. They routinely misunderstand things they are told, and have a lot of their own crackpot theories. And they're not rational.
I'm guessing you don't do nearly as much interaction with the average Joe as I do on a daily basis. They're their own worst enemies most often than not.
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You so blithely dismiss a “couple of months”. Tell that to business owners. Tell that to the unemployed. A “couple of months” could and does for many mean the difference of staying on your feet vs ruin.
You’re right about government intervention being necessary from the executive branch in some situations. The public took the initial order and it was followed with almost zero protesting or civil disobedience. The government does work for us, this is how our nation was setup, and if they want to continue measures that directly affect people’s livelihoods, the public deserves answers what needs to happen without vague platitudes.
I have repeatedly said that we needed to provide a more comprehensive relief package for small business owners and those who are unemployed. A couple months should be able to be weathered. If it can't, the problem is with our safety net itself, and perhaps an economy that isn't all that substantitive to begin with.
And sorry, but people have been given answers. Maybe not specific objective metrics, but certainly reasoning as to WHY we are doing this. But we have a subset of our population is too ignorant to understand it. Or too conditioned to see conspiracy where none exists.
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I have repeatedly said that we needed to provide a more comprehensive relief package for small business owners and those who are unemployed. A couple months should be able to be weathered. If it can't, the problem is with our safety net itself, and perhaps an economy that isn't all that substantitive to begin with.
And sorry, but people have been given answers. Maybe not specific objective metrics, but certainly reasoning as to WHY we are doing this. But we have a subset of our population is too ignorant to understand it. Or too conditioned to see conspiracy where none exists.
+1
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You obviously haven't met some of my very blue collar employees. They routinely misunderstand things they are told, and have a lot of their own crackpot theories. And they're not rational.
I'm guessing you don't do nearly as much interaction with the average Joe as I do on a daily basis. They're their own worst enemies most often than not.
So they'll listen to random dates but not metrics, got it. So why is it governments job to save people from themselves?
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-how many daily tests need to be available in a phase 1 reopening, phase n reopening?
-what is the target hospital utilization rate and what rate of change represents an indicator of reopening?
-What level of PPE capacity at hospitals is sufficient for phased reopening?
-What level of PPE availability at a work place is sufficient for reopening?
-What infrastructure needs to be minimally in place to allow phased reopening?
mu03eng, I agree with you. We should be publicly stating metrics, and explaining what they mean. Cuomo and Merkel have done well with this. There is a problem with doing so though, and simply looking at this board should point them out. Rational metrics are not driving peoples actions, politics are.
There are largely two big metrics governing action/policy. R0 and the availability to test/track cases. The latter is important, because R0 is inaccurate without it. Now where do you place those metrics?
R0 is an easy one, in theory, we know how rapidly virus will spread based on R0. But that is dependent on models, which are being attacked politically. It is also dependent on reporting, which, politically there is a movement stating that certain parties are intentionally inflating numbers to cause harm to influence the election. The argument that these are no more accurate than a weather forecast.
The corollary to R0, is that we know it will go back up when we relax social distancing. The actual plans, are we shut everything back down above a certain threshold. The public/economy is not going to react well to that. In my opinion, they need to know. But politically, no one wants to go there.
Testing/tracking is hard. The bottom line is, we are never going to be able to test/track at the level needed. We are just going to eventually call it good enough. So, you really have to just make up a possible number there, and then lie to the people. That number, since it will be completely arbitrary (whatever may be attainable), will be vehemently attacked as being...well, arbitrary, and chosen to cause harm to influence the election.
For people like you and I, these numbers provide a lot of benefit, so I want to see them. But, for the bulk population, they are secondary to politics. And politics are fierce and dividing the nation right now.
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So they'll listen to random dates but not metrics, got it. So why is it governments job to save people from themselves?
I think at this point, you just want to argue. You already know the answer to this question.
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There should be a weekly update letting us know how things are going with testing, cases and such. Evers needs to start holding these so each week the local news can let everyone know where we stand. I also want the metrics it is not good enough to come on once enough and give the orders that we are closed for this long see you next month.
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I think at this point, you just want to argue. You already know the answer to this question.
I literally have zero interest in arguing which is why I stopped coming to the board for several weeks. Things haven't changed, everyone is entrenched and no one wants to have an nuanced conversation. No worries I'll go back into Scoop Quarantine
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Is the bar zero Covid-19 deaths? How many deaths is too many in balance with the potential on the other side that lives are ruined, peoples mental health is significantly impacted, that families fall into poverty? All for the shut down and a continued measured approach but if we're making decisions based on death outcomes give me a number that is "acceptable" because zero isn't the answer
92,145 deaths is acceptable.
Oh, you were just being blithely rhetorical?
Nobody has ever suggested a "zero death" policy, largely because nobody has ever been that stupid. So, I'm not sure why you would even throw that straw man out there, even rhetorically.
I don't have a magic number. Wouldn't even try to come up with one, But far more relevant, there is no magic number. There's no formula that says "If we do A, then XX people will die, but we do B then YY people will die and if we do C than ZZ people would die."
This is not a choose your adventure book.
Suggesting otherwise is, to borrow a Scoop phrase, dumb and dangerous.
But, since you seem to have a figure in mind, or are of the opinion of that there's an acceptable number, what is it? How many people are you willing to let die to get your favorite restaurant up and running like normal? How many days in the ICU are you going to let people endure so you can go down to Old Navy to pick up a pair of khakis?
More importantly, which of your friends and family are you willing to include in that number?
While you're at it, please define what's a "ruined" life. People love throwing the phrase around, but what does it actually mean? Does unemployment ruin a life? Does being financially stressed ruin a life? Does missing a mortgage payment ruin a life?
I know being dead ruins a life. I'm a little less clear on what else.
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My question is, why is there outcry because Evers is not creating metrics. Should the states be responsible for that?
Shouldn't there be a national plan, given that the CDC is actually designed to do exactly that, and Billions of taxpayer dollars are spent so that they can develop metric-driven plans for things just like this.
Make the announcements bipartisan, Trump and former presidents, and leaders of both chambers of congress having a press conference together outlining the numbers/metrics and explaining the plan nationwide.
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92,145 deaths is acceptable.
Oh, you were just being blithely rhetorical?
Nobody has ever suggested a "zero death" policy, largely because nobody has ever been that stupid. So, I'm not sure why you would even throw that straw man out there, even rhetorically.
I don't have a magic number. Wouldn't even try to come up with one, But far more relevant, there is no magic number. There's no formula that says "If we do A, then XX people will die, but we do B then YY people will die and if we do C than ZZ people would die."
This is not a choose your adventure book.
Suggesting otherwise is, to borrow a Scoop phrase, dumb and dangerous.
But, since you seem to have a figure in mind, or are of the opinion of that there's an acceptable number, what is it? How many people are you willing to let die to get your favorite restaurant up and running like normal? How many days in the ICU are you going to let people endure so you can go down to Old Navy to pick up a pair of khakis?
More importantly, which of your friends and family are you willing to include in that number?
While you're at it, please define what's a "ruined" life. People love throwing the phrase around, but what does it actually mean? Does unemployment ruin a life? Does being financially stressed ruin a life? Does missing a mortgage payment ruin a life?
I know being dead ruins a life. I'm a little less clear on what else.
Are you intentionally or accidentally misrepresenting my position? I have not once said things should go back to normal and I also said that we need to phase any changes in, driven by science and definable metrics.
You are correct that there is no death number that is acceptable, but we accept deaths of all kinds on a daily basis so this fascination with measuring it is silly. Again, if focus on the number of deaths we should not open at all....any spread of the virus will lead to deaths, full stop. If the standard is to avoid deaths then we should stay locked down until there is a vaccine or a treatment plan that prevents all preventable deaths. If that's your standard, so be it we'll just disagree
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My question is, why is there outcry because Evers is not creating metrics. Should the states be responsible for that?
Shouldn't there be a national plan, given that the CDC is actually designed to do exactly that, and Billions of taxpayer dollars are spent so that they can develop metric-driven plans for things just like this.
Make the announcements bipartisan, Trump and former presidents, and leaders of both chambers of congress having a press conference together outlining the numbers/metrics and explaining the plan nationwide.
1. Yes because Wisconsin is not Texas or California or New York.
2. The federal government 100% should provide guidance and metrics....they have a little bit (phased opening plan) but should do more.
3. Couldn't agree more the partisan politics on both sides is sickening to me.
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Are you intentionally or accidentally misrepresenting my position? I have not once said things should go back to normal and I also said that we need to phase any changes in, driven by science and definable metrics.
You are correct that there is no death number that is acceptable, but we accept deaths of all kinds on a daily basis so this fascination with measuring it is silly. Again, if focus on the number of deaths we should not open at all....any spread of the virus will lead to deaths, full stop. If the standard is to avoid deaths then we should stay locked down until there is a vaccine or a treatment plan that prevents all preventable deaths. If that's your standard, so be it we'll just disagree
I don't think I'm misrepresenting your position at all. Mostly because you don't seem to have one. But nowhere did I comment on when/whether you wanted to open things up.
I don't expect you to have read every post on this board, so you can be forgiven for misrepresenting my position (intentionally or not). But I can assure you I've never written or even implied that we need to stay locked down until a vaccine. I've written something quite different, in fact.
So, about those questions I asked you ....? It's really not fair to ask how many deaths are A-OK with you (though you believe it's a fair question of others). I imagine like most others here you're a decent human being who wants the minimize loss as much as possible.
But at least let us know what you mean by "ruined" lives here. Because I can tell you, many of the things you've cited - temporary unemployment, mental stress, financial struggle - do not ruin a person's life.
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1. Yes because Wisconsin is not Texas or California or New York.
2. The federal government 100% should provide guidance and metrics....they have a little bit (phased opening plan) but should do more.
3. Couldn't agree more the partisan politics on both sides is sickening to me.
We are largely in agreement. I disagree on item 1, largely because the metrics chosen for states and the nation need to be intensive parameters. Not extensive. There should be a top down directive for what values of intensive parameters are being targeted regarding closures/openings.
The thing about metrics like R0 and proper testing/tracking (designed as testing/tracking density). They are intensive parameters specific to the disease/spread.
They don't depend on whether it is Wisconsin, Texas, California, or NY. They only care about what the disease is. So they should be uniform across all states. That is why they are guiding policy in most nations.
What differs is, it is easier to get an R0 below 1 in rural Montana, than downtown NYC, but what values will support halting spread, and mitigate an increase in R0 (testing/tracking: designed as a density), should be the same everywhere. That means when things open/close needs to be very local, but the metrics are uniform.
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But the curve is flattening.....hospital capacity is up, Hospitalizations and ICU stays are down which was what I thought the goal was all along. Why do we need 6 more weeks of full shutdown, meaning what more will be accomplished? I mean hospitals in the area are starting to furlough workers because they don't have "normal" operations to do and the Covid case load is well below peak right now.
Please note I am not arguing against a shut down nor against continuing it and I certainly agree we need a phased reopening but I am struggling to understand 6 more weeks of shut down untethered to any metrics or goals other than a vague flatten the curve statement.
Eng, I hope you are right that the curve is flattening and there is some evidence to say that, but we really don't know.
What we know is that testing is flattening. And without testing, how can we know if cases are coming down.
https://crooksandliars.com/2020/04/america-hasnt-flattened-curve-and-states
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I literally have zero interest in arguing which is why I stopped coming to the board for several weeks. Things haven't changed, everyone is entrenched and no one wants to have an nuanced conversation. No worries I'll go back into Scoop Quarantine
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/13Yjln8dW18nEA/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47f43e8864d1c6593675b3c832c86d0c51e9c45149&rid=giphy.gif)
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My question is, why is there outcry because Evers is not creating metrics. Should the states be responsible for that?
Shouldn't there be a national plan, given that the CDC is actually designed to do exactly that, and Billions of taxpayer dollars are spent so that they can develop metric-driven plans for things just like this.
Make the announcements bipartisan, Trump and former presidents, and leaders of both chambers of congress having a press conference together outlining the numbers/metrics and explaining the plan nationwide.
Agree with this.
With regards to complaints about why Wisconsin or other states are picking dates instead of using metrics, I'm guessing it's very difficult when those metrics are beyond state control. PPE for workers and hospitals? FEMA/feds are confiscating shipments/orders so tough to track that supply chain/stockpile. Testing/tracing? CDC seems hands-off and I don't think state boards of health have enough money/resources to deal with a pandemic (especially one that crosses state lines).
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I can tell you, many of the things you've cited - temporary unemployment, mental stress, financial struggle - do not ruin a person's life.
They most certainly can, Pak, and I was a little surprised to see you argue otherwise.
Any one of those things can lead to deep depression, which can lead to suicide, which, by definition, can "ruin a person's life." Because that person is now dead. And then his or her family's lives also will be ruined. Even if they don't lead to suicide, the kind of mental stress that comes out of severe financial loss certainly can ruin a person's life. And I think you know that.
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I literally have zero interest in arguing which is why I stopped coming to the board for several weeks. Things haven't changed, everyone is entrenched and no one wants to have an nuanced conversation. No worries I'll go back into Scoop Quarantine
I love nuanced conversations. I crave nuanced conversations.
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They most certainly can, Pak, and I was a little surprised to see you argue otherwise.
Any one of those things can lead to deep depression, which can lead to suicide, which, by definition, can "ruin a person's life." Because that person is now dead. And then his or her family's lives also will be ruined. Even if they don't lead to suicide, the kind of mental stress that comes out of severe financial loss certainly can ruin a person's life. And I think you know that.
82 ... this is the very definition of a slippery slope fallacy. You write as if pink slip to gun in mouth is a natural progression. It's not.
Maybe next time a company downsizes its workforce, we should call its board of directors a bunch of killers?
I guess I'll ask you the same question I asked eng03 ... what is a "ruined" life? Like, if a close family member of mine took his life, was my life ruined and I just didn't know it? Have I been living a lie for the past 15 years, never truly understanding my life was ruined? Seems to be what you're suggesting above.
I think perhaps you guys are mistaking the various moments of pain, suffering and setback that we all experience in life with "ruination."
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I imagine like most others here you're a decent human being who wants the minimize loss as much as possible.
And this phrase is precisely the point. What is "as much as possible"? And do any of us really believe that minimizing life "as much as possible" is actually the goal?. Because it seems to me that "as much as possible" would mean locking everything up until we have a vaccine. And neither you, I or anyone else here is arguing for that. And I'd like to think we're all "decent human beings" that mostly agree on a lot of this, but have some disagreements on some of things. The real challenge then, since we know that we're not going to minimize "as much as possible," is what is practicable? What makes the most sense? I honestly don't have an answer for that. There is inevitably going to be some balancing occurring, as awful as it is to accept. And "balancing" and "minimizing as much as possible" are not entirely compatible concepts.
I'm not currently in a rush for things to open up, but I remain concerned that we might be doing "too well" in flattening the curve and simply delaying the inevitable.
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You sum it up very well. We all want to open and start trying to restore the old normal. We all are worried about the next wave and acceptable loss and balancing health and safety and the economy. And we can all argue all point from many perspectives. We are all in slightly different places on the graph. But we all want the same outcome.
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I'm not currently in a rush for things to open up, but I remain concerned that we might be doing "too well" in flattening the curve and simply delaying the inevitable.
I'm super confused about all this talk about the curve flattening - as of today, it looks like the slope of the curve hasn't change much vs the last week...and is getting nowhere near "flat"
Been adding an average of 30k new cases for just about "forever"...
(both pics are US only..)
edit 3: unless you're using the logarithmic chart - which is misleading unless you understand what those are representing (basically - percentages)
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Look at deaths per day is what they are talking about. While that seems to be flattening, it is certainly not going down. And that is something we need to start to open things back up.
People talk about ruining businesses, bankrupting people without opening up.
If we open up and this thing spikes, that situation could get significantly worse and far more permanent. We overload the medical system, coupled with now broke people, it could get ugly.
People never go to large events, get on airplanes. Restaurant industry would consolidate. Our way of life could be permanently significantly altered.
We need far more testing, as you said. We need far better tracing and knowledge about how this thing is passed, etc.
As eng said, we need metrics, but so far there has only been a couple attempts to define what needs to happen to open and those have been far to vague and no real work is being done to ensure they are ever met.
We need more testing - great, is anyone doing a concerted effort to see that happens? Not really.
We need more tracing - no real orchestrated effort.
We need more PPEs - Again, it seems everyone for themselves.
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Rocky some of that may be attributed to the hospital data the governors are sharing. The cases still elevated but we (at least in NY/CT) are seeing hospitalizations decline.
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I'm super confused about all this talk about the curve flattening - as of today, it looks like the slope of the curve hasn't change much vs the last week...and is getting nowhere near "flat"
Been adding an average of 30k new cases for just about "forever"...
(both pics are US only..)
edit 3: unless you're using the logarithmic chart - which is misleading unless you understand what those are representing (basically - percentages)
In many locations the number of new cases per day has decreased significantly. Also, my understanding of the term was that it was a comparison of the unmitigated curve versus the curve after the implementation of mitigation measures. I don't think anyone would argue that the curve hasn't been flattened considerably as compared to what would have happened without the steps that were taken. Here's Ohio's version of what they think that would have looked like (https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboards/forecast-model).
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nm - I see what you mean now. Some locations up others down
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I'm super confused about all this talk about the curve flattening - as of today, it looks like the slope of the curve hasn't change much vs the last week...and is getting nowhere near "flat"
Been adding an average of 30k new cases for just about "forever"...
(both pics are US only..)
edit 3: unless you're using the logarithmic chart - which is misleading unless you understand what those are representing (basically - percentages)
I've said a few times in this thread that because of the un-coordinated, hodge-podge way that stay at home orders have been issued (or not issued) and enforced (or not enforced) it seemed to me that we'd be looking at one long, rolling peak.
Right, the social distancing policy has shown to be effective elsewhere in the world as well as the early hot spots in the U.S. that shut down. The issue I see is with the idiot governors that still haven't implemented state-wide policies, or in Georgia's case actually issued an order to re-open public beaches.
Someone posted a map showing travel distances based on cell phone records, and the lack of taking this seriously in large segments of the country is what makes me think we'll have a long, rolling peak.
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I'm super confused about all this talk about the curve flattening - as of today, it looks like the slope of the curve hasn't change much vs the last week...and is getting nowhere near "flat"
Been adding an average of 30k new cases for just about "forever"...
(both pics are US only..)
edit 3: unless you're using the logarithmic chart - which is misleading unless you understand what those are representing (basically - percentages)
It flattens on weekends :-\
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Look at deaths per day is what they are talking about. While that seems to be flattening, it is certainly not going down. And that is something we need to start to open things back up.
People talk about ruining businesses, bankrupting people without opening up.
If we open up and this thing spikes, that situation could get significantly worse and far more permanent. We overload the medical system, coupled with now broke people, it could get ugly.
People never go to large events, get on airplanes. Restaurant industry would consolidate. Our way of life could be permanently significantly altered.
We need far more testing, as you said. We need far better tracing and knowledge about how this thing is passed, etc.
As eng said, we need metrics, but so far there has only been a couple attempts to define what needs to happen to open and those have been far to vague and no real work is being done to ensure they are ever met.
We need more testing - great, is anyone doing a concerted effort to see that happens? Not really.
We need more tracing - no real orchestrated effort.
We need more PPEs - Again, it seems everyone for themselves.
Starting to see 2nd wave spikes in Europe, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, China, ......
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Starting to see 2nd wave spikes in Europe, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, China, ......
This is misleading. There are no pronounced second wave spikes in any of the major infected countries in Europe. South Korea has had positive retests but they don’t know if that’s virus duration or testing failure.
Japan is concerning, but Hokkaido for example, had a lockdown period shorter than the US already has experienced (much less into May) and their schools opened after basically a month.
Singapore’s issue is with migrant workers who live in a cramped crowded conditions and were never really tested to begin with. I think they are like 2/3 of the cases in total in Singapore.
Second waves merit caution, but it’s not some widespread unavoidable issue, especially not given the US’s measures and strategies thus far
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Rocky some of that may be attributed to the hospital data the governors are sharing. The cases still elevated but we (at least in NY/CT) are seeing hospitalizations decline.
New cases is a combination of actual cases, and testing levels. We have increased testing levels, with total new cases staying flat.
Hospitalization is largely testing level independent. So the decline in hospitalization indicates that there is an overall drop in new infections, and the apparent leveling off is a function of simply increasing testing capacity.
That gets back to what I mentioned previously and using intensive vs extensive parameters for guidelines. New cases is extensive, it is currently dependent on number of tests.
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This is misleading. There are no pronounced second wave spikes in any of the major infected countries in Europe. South Korea has had positive retests but they don’t know if that’s virus duration or testing failure.
Japan is concerning, but Hokkaido for example, had a lockdown period shorter than the US already has experienced (much less into May) and their schools opened after basically a month.
Singapore’s issue is with migrant workers who live in a cramped crowded conditions and were never really tested to begin with. I think they are like 2/3 of the cases in total in Singapore.
Second waves merit caution, but it’s not some widespread unavoidable issue, especially not given the US’s measures and strategies thus far
On Friday Italy recorded 3,786 new infections - a 4 day high.
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Where are you seeing the increased testing? It has been about 150k a day for quite a while. To make a statistical difference that would have to increase quite a bit.
I have been using a couple sites for numbers but I am open for better reporting sites for info.
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Where are you seeing the increased testing? It has been about 150k a day for quite a while. To make a statistical difference that would have to increase quite a bit.
I have been using a couple sites for numbers but I am open for better reporting sites for info.
I was referring mostly to clearing backlogs of old tests.
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I was referring mostly to clearing backlogs of old tests.
OK, thanks!
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Watching an interview .. Wisconsin's unemployment rate is going up 1% every 3 days and is expected to hit 20% on May 1st. The height is predicted to be 27%.
Jaw dropping.
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Watching an interview .. Wisconsin's unemployment rate is going up 1% every 3 days and is expected to hit 20% on May 1st. The height is predicted to be 27%.
Jaw dropping.
This might be better an in "economy thread," but honestly, how long does it take to unwind something like that?
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This might be better an in "economy thread," but honestly, how long does it take to unwind something like that?
I (optimistically) think that half the people laid off will get back to work by September. The next quarter of people will take a year. The final quarter will be recover like the 2008 recession .. 200-400k per month for years.
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The Badger Bounce Back Plan was announced today. Don't know exactly what this means and how long it will take to move through the phases...
https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/WIGOV/2020/04/20/file_attachments/1431305/Badger%20Bounce%20Back%20PlanFINAL.pdf
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Considerin' weave all takin' a major Warrior Wallop, it'el bee a long whyel, aina?
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Considerin' weave all takin' a major Warrior Wallop, it'el bee a long whyel, aina?
You'll be fine, Ricky Stratton.
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The Badger Bounce Back Plan was announced today. Don't know exactly what this means and how long it will take to move through the phases...
https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/WIGOV/2020/04/20/file_attachments/1431305/Badger%20Bounce%20Back%20PlanFINAL.pdf
This should have been released with the extended safer at home date. would have cleared things up a lot better.
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Watching an interview .. Wisconsin's unemployment rate is going up 1% every 3 days and is expected to hit 20% on May 1st. The height is predicted to be 27%.
Jaw dropping.
This also (I imagine) includes gig workers like my retired dad who drives Uber, who never qualified for UI before, but now does. I am not unemployed truther by any means, but it certainly has to be a factor.
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This should have been released with the extended safer at home date. would have cleared things up a lot better.
I agree. I think last weeks order may have been rushed to get out ahead of the President.
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Considerin' weave all takin' a major Warrior Wallop, it'el bee a long whyel, aina?
Badgers don't do anything fast, hey
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Badgers don't do anything fast, hey
Bravo! Well done.
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I agree. I think last weeks order may have been rushed to get out ahead of the President.
That was a huge mistake by Evers then. You come and say you are evaluating the outline put forth by the president and will come up with the next steps for Wisconsin asap. Shows you are putting thought into it.
Not that difficult.
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That was a huge mistake by Evers then. You come and say you are evaluating the outline put forth by the president and will come up with the next steps for Wisconsin asap. Shows you are putting thought into it.
Not that difficult.
Jazzed about the plan.
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Both UW Health and Meriter, 2 of the big 3 hospital/medical groups in Madison announced salary reductions for doctors and execs today, plus hour reductions for staff. Revenue is plummeting from the lack of procedures and lack of COVID patients (the latter is a good thing.)
https://wkow.com/2020/04/21/unitypoint-health-announces-hours-reductions-limited-furloughs-pay-cuts/ (https://wkow.com/2020/04/21/unitypoint-health-announces-hours-reductions-limited-furloughs-pay-cuts/)
https://wkow.com/2020/04/21/paycuts-for-uw-health-doctors-senior-leaders-reduction-in-hours-announced/ (https://wkow.com/2020/04/21/paycuts-for-uw-health-doctors-senior-leaders-reduction-in-hours-announced/)
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Both UW Health and Meriter, 2 of the big 3 hospital/medical groups in Madison announced salary reductions for doctors and execs today, plus hour reductions for staff. Revenue is plummeting from the lack of procedures and lack of COVID patients (the latter is a good thing.)
https://wkow.com/2020/04/21/unitypoint-health-announces-hours-reductions-limited-furloughs-pay-cuts/ (https://wkow.com/2020/04/21/unitypoint-health-announces-hours-reductions-limited-furloughs-pay-cuts/)
https://wkow.com/2020/04/21/paycuts-for-uw-health-doctors-senior-leaders-reduction-in-hours-announced/ (https://wkow.com/2020/04/21/paycuts-for-uw-health-doctors-senior-leaders-reduction-in-hours-announced/)
Just bad management.
Prepare for Covid, stock up on PPE for Covid, and then run the hospital as you normally would until it is necessary to restrict non-essential surgery. If, and when that happens, you have everything in place to deal with the virus.
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Both UW Health and Meriter, 2 of the big 3 hospital/medical groups in Madison announced salary reductions for doctors and execs today, plus hour reductions for staff. Revenue is plummeting from the lack of procedures and lack of COVID patients (the latter is a good thing.)
I don't think WI restricted elective procedures (and maybe that wasn't your point) - this is because people didn't want to get them, or the hospitals themselves decided to cut them out.
https://www.facs.org/covid-19/legislative-regulatory/executive-orders
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I don't think WI restricted elective procedures (and maybe that wasn't your point) - this is because people didn't want to get them, or the hospitals themselves decided to cut them out.
https://www.facs.org/covid-19/legislative-regulatory/executive-orders
I was just sharing the news. UW hospital is a level 1 trauma center. Meriter is one of 2 maternity units in madison. Its just news, presented with no underlying comments.
I think Froedert and some of the Milwaukee area health systems are having issues too, but i could be wrong. Unleash and bo's masseuse can comment on that.
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I don't think WI restricted elective procedures (and maybe that wasn't your point) - this is because people didn't want to get them, or the hospitals themselves decided to cut them out.
https://www.facs.org/covid-19/legislative-regulatory/executive-orders
Wisconsin didn't order the end of elective procedures but they consume PPE, take up beds that were converted to Covid beds and expand contact circles. Are you guys saying that hospitals shouldn't preserve PPE, prepare for the surge(another one?) and limit interactions?
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Wisconsin didn't order the end of elective procedures but they consume PPE, take up beds that were converted to Covid beds and expand contact circles. Are you guys saying that hospitals shouldn't preserve PPE, prepare for the surge(another one?) and limit interactions?
I didn't say that.
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I didn't say that.
So how is it bad management?
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Wisconsin didn't order the end of elective procedures but they consume PPE, take up beds that were converted to Covid beds and expand contact circles. Are you guys saying that hospitals shouldn't preserve PPE, prepare for the surge(another one?) and limit interactions?
This is a trap question, but I like it.
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I don't think WI restricted elective procedures (and maybe that wasn't your point) - this is because people didn't want to get them, or the hospitals themselves decided to cut them out.
https://www.facs.org/covid-19/legislative-regulatory/executive-orders
They didn’t, hospitals chose to and it was the right decision. Wife’s salary got cut 10%, waiting on mine, probably at least 15%.
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Both UW Health and Meriter, 2 of the big 3 hospital/medical groups in Madison announced salary reductions for doctors and execs today, plus hour reductions for staff. Revenue is plummeting from the lack of procedures and lack of COVID patients (the latter is a good thing.)
https://wkow.com/2020/04/21/unitypoint-health-announces-hours-reductions-limited-furloughs-pay-cuts/ (https://wkow.com/2020/04/21/unitypoint-health-announces-hours-reductions-limited-furloughs-pay-cuts/)
https://wkow.com/2020/04/21/paycuts-for-uw-health-doctors-senior-leaders-reduction-in-hours-announced/ (https://wkow.com/2020/04/21/paycuts-for-uw-health-doctors-senior-leaders-reduction-in-hours-announced/)
my brother works at meriter. place is dead quiet. he's starting to squirm a little. he's been there 25 years. direct patient care pharmacist
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my brother works at meriter. place is dead quiet. he's starting to squirm a little. he's been there 25 years. direct patient care pharmacist
Which floor? I wouldn’t say it’s dead quiet, running at like 40% of normal census wise. It did pick up at the end of the week/ weekend.
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Which floor? I wouldn’t say it’s dead quiet, running at like 40% of normal census wise. It did pick up at the end of the week/ weekend.
ok, probably an overstatement-fair enough. let's just say he is getting kinda squirmy nervous. don't know which floor, but works mainly with docs on pre & post surgery stabilizing blood sugar levels along with the usual pharmacy stuff. i'll ask him and pm you when i find out
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Just bad management.
Prepare for Covid, stock up on PPE for Covid, and then run the hospital as you normally would until it is necessary to restrict non-essential surgery. If, and when that happens, you have everything in place to deal with the virus.
lol you just can't please some people.
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Bad management sure in hind sight but based off sensationalized media coverage and dooms day modeling using terrible data I’m not sure they had much of a choice.
Unfortunately it’s not just Meriter and UW caught in a pinch. Every health system and hospital in the state is finding themselves in a serious bind because of the overreaction to what ended up being a serious problem for only our largest metro areas.
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Bad management sure in hind sight but based off sensationalized media coverage and dooms day modeling using terrible data I’m not sure they had much of a choice.
Unfortunately it’s not just Meriter and UW caught in a pinch. Every health system and hospital in the state is finding themselves in a serious bind because of the overreaction to what ended up being a serious problem for only our largest metro areas.
Yeah, I think you are probably right. Lots of media pressure to be ready. But these hospital heads get paid big bucks to make the tough decisions.
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Yeah, I think you are probably right. Lots of media pressure to be ready. But these hospital heads get paid big bucks to make the tough decisions.
You would have been screaming for those hospital heads to be in jail if the Wisconsin ERs had looked like New York's.
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You would have been screaming for those hospital heads to be in jail if the Wisconsin ERs had looked like New York's.
Of course, with a couple weeks heads up to the potential of what the outbreak could look like if health systems didn’t have a plan in place and repeated the mess of NYC of course they would have been pissed.
I think people can also be justified in their frustration with the overreaction and the consequences that came from that. Doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other in preparedness, now that we know our health system is on solid footing let’s get back to work while still being smart with keeping high risk/retired folks on high alert and the rest of the population washing hands and working from home if they can. And for the kids let’s let them have their normal summer sports seasons, activities, camps etc. This all sense incredibly unfair to them imo.
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You would have been screaming for those hospital heads to be in jail if the Wisconsin ERs had looked like New York's.
My post was, and I quote, "Prepare for Covid, stock up on PPE for Covid, and then run the hospital as you normally would until it is necessary to restrict non-essential surgery. If, and when that happens, you have everything in place to deal with the virus".
So the 1st thing I specifically said was to get all preparations ready for Covid. I'm not sure what your post refers to.
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My post was, and I quote, "Prepare for Covid, stock up on PPE for Covid, and then run the hospital as you normally would until it is necessary to restrict non-essential surgery. If, and when that happens, you have everything in place to deal with the virus".
So the 1st thing I specifically said was to get all preparations ready for Covid. I'm not sure what your post refers to.
You can't really stock up on supplies and prep rooms for infectious patients while also consuming those supplies and using said rooms for routine events. Secondarily, you can't free up treatment folks if you need to also those folks to do their primary jobs as if nothing is going on.
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Bad management sure in hind sight but based off sensationalized media coverage and dooms day modeling using terrible data I’m not sure they had much of a choice.
Unfortunately it’s not just Meriter and UW caught in a pinch. Every health system and hospital in the state is finding themselves in a serious bind because of the overreaction to what ended up being a serious problem for only our largest metro areas.
Once again...
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Of course, with a couple weeks heads up to the potential of what the outbreak could look like if health systems didn’t have a plan in place and repeated the mess of NYC of course they would have been pissed.
I think people can also be justified in their frustration with the overreaction and the consequences that came from that. Doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other in preparedness, now that we know our health system is on solid footing let’s get back to work while still being smart with keeping high risk/retired folks on high alert and the rest of the population washing hands and working from home if they can. And for the kids let’s let them have their normal summer sports seasons, activities, camps etc. This all sense incredibly unfair to them imo.
I don't think it was an overreaction as much as it was good preparedness. Better to be over prepared than under prepared.
And I do agree with you that we should be opening earlier than Memorial Day weekend, but I really doubt you are going to see the normal summer sports seasons and camps. I would be real hesitant about sending my children to an overnight camp of any sort.
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My post was, and I quote, "Prepare for Covid, stock up on PPE for Covid, and then run the hospital as you normally would until it is necessary to restrict non-essential surgery. If, and when that happens, you have everything in place to deal with the virus".
So the 1st thing I specifically said was to get all preparations ready for Covid. I'm not sure what your post refers to.
It refers to opportunity cost. I get that when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. But this isn't due to some big, bad hospital exec boogeyman.
Did you know that emergency departments need to, and typically do, run at near complete capacity just to break even? Even then they are a loss leader for major systems. What do you think the costs are to, as you say, "prepare for covid"? To you, does that mean just a quick mention during rounds? Maybe a conference call at shift change? Cmon man. "Preparing for covid" means moving heaven and earth to create capacity - even creating physical space for atypical uses is a tremendous undertaking in a hospital setting. Plus prepping huge amounts of staff to be redeployed to covid-care supporting roles. There is redesigning hospital flow to reduce contact between patients, and pre-training highest and best uses for everyone if all of a sudden, 5 days later, you are overrun. You can't just do that while operating at regular capacity, and it requires you to take your most profitable sectors and and prepare and deploy them as excess capacity for your least profitable. Tremendous cost.
And that's just on the business side! We still haven't pointed out that hospitals are ground zero for covid spread. So if we take distancing and reducing transmission seriously at all, we can't have hospitals just ignore that to sustain profitability! At the same time as we were rightfully melting down over Wisconsin's election, you wanted your grandma or grandpa going to a major hospital for a pre-surgery consult on Monday, and then returning for their high-revenue hip replacement on Tuesday? Or you wanted your six year old coming into the hospital for their dermotology procedure? These are all high revenue procedures that got pushed back, at tremendous cost and stress on the system, to make sure hospitals were as ready as they could be. Those decisions were made by doctors and other practitioners who had to take that time out of seeing patients, just to push back the next round of patients they were supposed to see. You don't just delay these things indefinitely - reorienting a tightly booked patient care schedule in a way that doesn't seriously harm patients is a tremendous undertaking that requites a ton of practitioner input.
I'm sorry to be harsh on this, but you don't know what you're talking about. This is the opportunity cost of health care systems getting prepared, and to just lean back and accuse faceless executives of mismanagement is as lazy as you're accusing those hypothetical executives of being.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/04/22/covid-19-hasnt-spiked-after-wisconsin-election-experts-urge-caution/2997394001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/04/22/covid-19-hasnt-spiked-after-wisconsin-election-experts-urge-caution/2997394001/)
So .. look .. in non-dysfunctional society, April's election would have been postponed. We no longer live in that world, so yeah, of course one party used the courts to their (perceived) political advantage and won but lost. That all happened because of course it happened. Thanks everyone, great job.
The "good" news out of the April election is that a few hundred thousand people were (forced) into a socio-medical experiment of sorts -- and 99.999% of them appear (for now) to have come out unscathed.
In terms of socio-medical experiments .. this is fantastic news: We held an event with precautions. Yes, yes, sure, 19 virus+ people have been linked to the election. (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cases-coronavirus-wisconsin-linked-election-activities-state-health/story?id=70264956) 19 of 411,000 in-person voters = .0046% Even if you triple that number, it's tiny. Wisconsin is averaging +160 cases per day already.
"Should" the number be zero? yes. Would the number be zero if the election was postponed to June? Absolutely not, as it could not have been 100% mail-in.
I write this because .. we're going to be living with this risk for 12-24-36 more months. It's not a question of if but when .. when we start doing activities that have a risk north of zero. -- This debacle of an election? Showed us some data on how to move forward.
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"Should" the number be zero? yes. Would the number be zero if the election was postponed to June? Absolutely not, as it could not have been 100% mail-in.
I write this because .. we're going to be living with this risk for 12-24-36 more months. It's not a question of if but when .. when we start doing activities that have a risk north of zero. -- This debacle of an election? Showed us some data on how to move forward.
I totally agree with you. I was pointing this out somewhere yesterday as well (can't remember if here or another thread since all of these seem to have gone to plaid). We should use this as a learning and to fortify ourselves for the new normal....and start talking about what do we do in Nov, particularly if there is a re-emergence.
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It refers to opportunity cost. I get that when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. But this isn't due to some big, bad hospital exec boogeyman.
Did you know that emergency departments need to, and typically do, run at near complete capacity just to break even? Even then they are a loss leader for major systems. What do you think the costs are to, as you say, "prepare for covid"? To you, does that mean just a quick mention during rounds? Maybe a conference call at shift change? Cmon man. "Preparing for covid" means moving heaven and earth to create capacity - even creating physical space for atypical uses is a tremendous undertaking in a hospital setting. Plus prepping huge amounts of staff to be redeployed to covid-care supporting roles. There is redesigning hospital flow to reduce contact between patients, and pre-training highest and best uses for everyone if all of a sudden, 5 days later, you are overrun. You can't just do that while operating at regular capacity, and it requires you to take your most profitable sectors and and prepare and deploy them as excess capacity for your least profitable. Tremendous cost.
And that's just on the business side! We still haven't pointed out that hospitals are ground zero for covid spread. So if we take distancing and reducing transmission seriously at all, we can't have hospitals just ignore that to sustain profitability! At the same time as we were rightfully melting down over Wisconsin's election, you wanted your grandma or grandpa going to a major hospital for a pre-surgery consult on Monday, and then returning for their high-revenue hip replacement on Tuesday? Or you wanted your six year old coming into the hospital for their dermotology procedure? These are all high revenue procedures that got pushed back, at tremendous cost and stress on the system, to make sure hospitals were as ready as they could be. Those decisions were made by doctors and other practitioners who had to take that time out of seeing patients, just to push back the next round of patients they were supposed to see. You don't just delay these things indefinitely - reorienting a tightly booked patient care schedule in a way that doesn't seriously harm patients is a tremendous undertaking that requites a ton of practitioner input.
I'm sorry to be harsh on this, but you don't know what you're talking about. This is the opportunity cost of health care systems getting prepared, and to just lean back and accuse faceless executives of mismanagement is as lazy as you're accusing those hypothetical executives of being.
Boom goes the dynamite.
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You can't really stock up on supplies and prep rooms for infectious patients while also consuming those supplies and using said rooms for routine events. Secondarily, you can't free up treatment folks if you need to also those folks to do their primary jobs as if nothing is going on.
I never argued with the idea that hospitals had to stock up on supplies, reserve entire units (many times multiple units) for COVID patients, and adjust their normal day to day operations for a potential surge. They might the right move no doubt.
Time has no shown that we are only using about 25% of our already existing ventilators, ICUs have plenty of room, and hospitals are sinking because of the revenue source that keeps them viable throughout the year is now gone.
My point now is that we are now ready to handle whatever the next 12 months brings us until a vaccine is available so lets get back to normal operations.
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It refers to opportunity cost. I get that when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. But this isn't due to some big, bad hospital exec boogeyman.
Did you know that emergency departments need to, and typically do, run at near complete capacity just to break even? Even then they are a loss leader for major systems. What do you think the costs are to, as you say, "prepare for covid"? To you, does that mean just a quick mention during rounds? Maybe a conference call at shift change? Cmon man. "Preparing for covid" means moving heaven and earth to create capacity - even creating physical space for atypical uses is a tremendous undertaking in a hospital setting. Plus prepping huge amounts of staff to be redeployed to covid-care supporting roles. There is redesigning hospital flow to reduce contact between patients, and pre-training highest and best uses for everyone if all of a sudden, 5 days later, you are overrun. You can't just do that while operating at regular capacity, and it requires you to take your most profitable sectors and and prepare and deploy them as excess capacity for your least profitable. Tremendous cost.
And that's just on the business side! We still haven't pointed out that hospitals are ground zero for covid spread. So if we take distancing and reducing transmission seriously at all, we can't have hospitals just ignore that to sustain profitability! At the same time as we were rightfully melting down over Wisconsin's election, you wanted your grandma or grandpa going to a major hospital for a pre-surgery consult on Monday, and then returning for their high-revenue hip replacement on Tuesday? Or you wanted your six year old coming into the hospital for their dermotology procedure? These are all high revenue procedures that got pushed back, at tremendous cost and stress on the system, to make sure hospitals were as ready as they could be. Those decisions were made by doctors and other practitioners who had to take that time out of seeing patients, just to push back the next round of patients they were supposed to see. You don't just delay these things indefinitely - reorienting a tightly booked patient care schedule in a way that doesn't seriously harm patients is a tremendous undertaking that requites a ton of practitioner input.
I'm sorry to be harsh on this, but you don't know what you're talking about. This is the opportunity cost of health care systems getting prepared, and to just lean back and accuse faceless executives of mismanagement is as lazy as you're accusing those hypothetical executives of being.
When do you think we can expect clinics, hospitals, etc getting back to normal in Wisconsin?
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When do you think we can expect clinics, hospitals, etc getting back to normal in Wisconsin?
It's slowly starting. "Elective" surgeries can mean anything from a hip replacement to an eye surgery to slow macular degeneration. I've heard that St. Luke's is going to re-start stuff like cataract surgeries on May 1.
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When do you think we can expect clinics, hospitals, etc getting back to normal in Wisconsin?
Next week.
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MCW furloughed 700 people today until at least July
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Will arrests be made tomorrow in Madison downtown since the protest permit was denied?
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Will arrests be made tomorrow in Madison downtown since the protest permit was denied?
No arrests were made during the Occupation, so i doubt any will be made tomorrow.
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No arrests were made during the Occupation, so i doubt any will be made tomorrow.
Sorta makes you wonder what the point of permits are if they're not enforced. I'm curious as to where all these folks think they're going to go to the bathroom. ;D
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Sorta makes you wonder what the point of permits are if they're not enforced. I'm curious as to where all these folks think they're going to go to the bathroom. ;D
Probably the same place you did during the occupation...anywhere. 8-)
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Probably the same place you did during the occupation...anywhere. 8-)
Lots of open businesses on the square and state street were open back in the good ol' days.
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Sorta makes you wonder what the point of permits are if they're not enforced. I'm curious as to where all these folks think they're going to go to the bathroom. ;D
(https://media.giphy.com/media/780r2HUpzdYkg/giphy.gif)
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Brian Westrate, the treasurer of the Republican Party of Wisconsin, posted to a private Facebook group for organizers and some attendees of the Madison rally, asking people not to bring emblems of causes other than resisting the stay-at-home order.
“Ok folks, I implore you, please leave Confederate flags and/or AR15s, AK47s, or any other long guns at home,” Mr. Westrate wrote. “I well understand that the Confederacy was more about states rights than slavery. But that does not change the truth of how we should try to control the optics during the event.”
(Emphasis added)
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Brian Westrate, the treasurer of the Republican Party of Wisconsin, posted to a private Facebook group for organizers and some attendees of the Madison rally, asking people not to bring emblems of causes other than resisting the stay-at-home order.
“Ok folks, I implore you, please leave Confederate flags and/or AR15s, AK47s, or any other long guns at home,” Mr. Westrate wrote. “I well understand that the Confederacy was more about states rights than slavery. But that does not change the truth of how we should try to control the optics during the event.”
(Emphasis added)
There was an attempt
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There was an attempt
(https://i.imgur.com/09eVavF.gifv)
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Brian Westrate
@BrianWestrate
·
3h
"I was attempting to acknowledge the arguments that would be used to disagree with my suggestion. Of course slavery was at the core of the confederacy and the civil war. To say otherwise would be absurd. I was just trying to help the folks stay on message.Apparently it was a #Fail"
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Brian Westrate
@BrianWestrate
·
3h
"I was attempting to acknowledge the arguments that would be used to disagree with my suggestion. Of course slavery was at the core of the confederacy and the civil war. To say otherwise would be absurd. I was just trying to help the folks stay on message.Apparently it was a #Fail"
"Shoot, I got caught, sorry! Well anyway, here's Wonderwall!"
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So who went out and golfed today? I went out with my 2 sons and had a great time. It was great to be doing something for almost 5 hours without hearing about the virus or thinking about it.
The tee times at the course were booked solid but with the 20 minute gaps it was nice to not have a group on your tail.
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I did on the other side of the lake. Reminded me that I am a golf snob. Too slow, too many 6 packs in golf bags with empties all over the place. One of the reasons I have avoided leagues for the last 20 years. The absence of golf carts was refreshing. And I was amused watching guys have to carry their immense leather cart bag.
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I did on the other side of the lake. Reminded me that I am a golf snob. Too slow, too many 6 packs in golf bags with empties all over the place. One of the reasons I have avoided leagues for the last 20 years. The absence of golf carts was refreshing. And I was amused watching guys have to carry their immense leather cart bag.
completely different where i went. I think most of the guys out today at this course were members and older with their push carts. So they cleaned up after themselves
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Saw a 7-some on a green, all holding beers while the others putted. On a course with a closed clubhouse, no carts, first come-first serve.
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Saw a 7-some on a green, all holding beers while the others putted. On a course with a closed clubhouse, no carts, first come-first serve.
This is why I didn’t go out today or this weekend.
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34 parks to re-open:
https://www.wuwm.com/post/evers-reopens-34-wisconsin-state-parks-closed-april-10
The past week, Evers has loosened many restrictions, which I think is good -- but he's completely whiffing on the political opportunity to get people on the same page and tamp down the left vs. right divisions.
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34 parks to re-open:
https://www.wuwm.com/post/evers-reopens-34-wisconsin-state-parks-closed-april-10
The past week, Evers has loosened many restrictions, which I think is good -- but he's completely whiffing on the political opportunity to get people on the same page and tamp down the left vs. right divisions.
I mean...Vos and Fitzgerald sued him so....
And the polls agree with him. We will see if they continue to do so in a week or two.
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34 parks to re-open:
https://www.wuwm.com/post/evers-reopens-34-wisconsin-state-parks-closed-april-10
The past week, Evers has loosened many restrictions, which I think is good -- but he's completely whiffing on the political opportunity to get people on the same page and tamp down the left vs. right divisions.
It was pretty asinine for them to be closed in the first place.
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I don't disagree that .. they shouldn't have been closed, but I wouldn't call it "asinine" though .. it is an extreme measure where all non-zero risk activities are closed.
As for the politics .. look, we're dysfunctional and divided .. that will be the status quo until it's not, and that takes effort. Evers needs to increase (at least) the perception that he's listening and flexible, and every "loosening" of the rules is an opportunity.
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It was pretty asinine for them to be closed in the first place.
Have you been past a county park or city park that is open? Parking lots are cesspools.
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Our hospital is the busiest it’s been since before the lockdown, this week.
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It was pretty asinine for them to be closed in the first place.
They were overcrowded and people were trashing them. They should have been closed.
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https://www.wpr.org/52-who-worked-or-voted-wisconsin-election-have-covid-19
My advice to anyone who wants to open everything back up is to play it safe, and wait two weeks longer for that haircut or night out and see what kind of increase in numbers we have.
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Man, eye'm lookin' like da shaggy dawg, hey?
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https://www.wpr.org/52-who-worked-or-voted-wisconsin-election-have-covid-19
My advice to anyone who wants to open everything back up is to play it safe, and wait two weeks longer for that haircut or night out and see what kind of increase in numbers we have.
I agree with your advice, depending on location. Yet this morning's Milwaukee J/S had a different take (Behind a paywall, I think) :
"Given the incubation period of the coronavirus, epidemiologists said a surge in new cases would have appeared statewide last week. Except for a slight increase that could have been explained by other reasons, no surge appeared.
"I don’t think that the in-person election led to a major effect, to my surprise. I expected it," Alagoz said, adding they don't expect to see a spike in the future.
Mustafa Hussein, an epidemiologist with the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, agreed there did not appear to be evidence of a surge of cases in the raw numbers. But he noted researchers lack crucial data regarding COVID-19."
And later in the same article:
"One theory is that without the in-person election, the numbers of cases in Wisconsin would have dropped even lower.
"A lot of this is speculative and difficult to pinpoint and say, 'The election caused this,'” Hussein said. "All of these factors completely muddy the waters and make this very difficult. It feels like a wild goose chase to go after. It is a valid question, an important one, but very difficult to answer."
Officials at the Department of Health Services said they also did not see a spike.
"We didn’t observe any overall significant surge in infections associated with that," Westergaard said. "There is reason to think some people may have been exposed based on interviews done locally but not enough to create a trend or signal that we can detect on a statewide basis."
City of Milwaukee Health Director Jeanette Kowalik said seven people may have contracted the virus through voting. She later raised it to 40, but she said more research is needed, which should be done later this week.
The state said about two dozen people may have been infected on election day."
It's so very frustrating to not get clear data, or even some agreement on the data that should be available.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/04/29/coronavirus-wisconsin-no-bump-election-but-concerns-remain/3039357001/
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Which is great news. First, because you shouldn't want people to be sick. Second, because it shows the power of mitigation and what it might mean when we "open up."
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I agree with your advice, depending on location. Yet this morning's Milwaukee J/S had a different take (Behind a paywall, I think) :
"Given the incubation period of the coronavirus, epidemiologists said a surge in new cases would have appeared statewide last week. Except for a slight increase that could have been explained by other reasons, no surge appeared.
"I don’t think that the in-person election led to a major effect, to my surprise. I expected it," Alagoz said, adding they don't expect to see a spike in the future.
Mustafa Hussein, an epidemiologist with the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, agreed there did not appear to be evidence of a surge of cases in the raw numbers. But he noted researchers lack crucial data regarding COVID-19."
And later in the same article:
"One theory is that without the in-person election, the numbers of cases in Wisconsin would have dropped even lower.
"A lot of this is speculative and difficult to pinpoint and say, 'The election caused this,'” Hussein said. "All of these factors completely muddy the waters and make this very difficult. It feels like a wild goose chase to go after. It is a valid question, an important one, but very difficult to answer."
Officials at the Department of Health Services said they also did not see a spike.
"We didn’t observe any overall significant surge in infections associated with that," Westergaard said. "There is reason to think some people may have been exposed based on interviews done locally but not enough to create a trend or signal that we can detect on a statewide basis."
City of Milwaukee Health Director Jeanette Kowalik said seven people may have contracted the virus through voting. She later raised it to 40, but she said more research is needed, which should be done later this week.
The state said about two dozen people may have been infected on election day."
It's so very frustrating to not get clear data, or even some agreement on the data that should be available.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/04/29/coronavirus-wisconsin-no-bump-election-but-concerns-remain/3039357001/
And I don't disagree. We can't prove or disprove where the people were infected. Having said that, I disagree with the bolded claim. Incubation time, plus onset of symptoms, plus time for a test to come back... and we are easily within that time frame.
It's going to be difficult to pin down exactly where people contracted the disease without adequate testing and contact tracing.
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Man, eye'm lookin' like da shaggy dawg, hey?
I want to call the girl that cuts my hairtm and ask her if she can meet me at Pet Smart, use their dog grooming tables to get this mop of grey off my head.
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I wrote this earlier about WI's election .. if it turns out "only" 40 .. or hell, triple it to 120 people got infected on Election Day .. that's 40 of 413,000 in-person voters. That's .009% .. and WI is averaging 160 per day.
Once we "open" back up .. we're going to have these kinds of spikes constantly.
Honestly, the election showed a path of holding an event extraordinarily safely.
Yeah, any number north of zero sucks. Welcome to the new world. Gonna be like this for two more years.
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I wrote this earlier about WI's election .. if it turns out "only" 40 .. or hell, triple it to 120 people got infected on Election Day .. that's 40 of 413,000 in-person voters. That's .009% .. and WI is averaging 160 per day.
Once we "open" back up .. we're going to have these kinds of spikes constantly.
Honestly, the election showed a path of holding an event extraordinarily safely.
Yeah, any number north of zero sucks. Welcome to the new world. Gonna be like this for two more years.
That's a very reasonable view, 'topper. It still was absolutely unnecessary to subject Wisconsinites to that, but it's hard to argue with the numbers.
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I would guess more than 40 voters got Covid 19 while voting.
But even if it's at 40. How many people were infected by those 40 people?
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I would guess more than 40 voters got Covid 19 while voting.
But even if it's at 40. How many people were infected by those 40 people?
Therein lies the problem. We don't know. No testing, no contact tracing, and we aren't counting asymptomatic people who got it and have spread it to people who didn't go to the polls.
Some folks here think that 40 is no big deal. Sure, 40 is acceptable, especially if no one dies! But we don't live in a vacuum. This is exactly how this virus will spread over the coming weeks.
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I wrote this earlier about WI's election .. if it turns out "only" 40 .. or hell, triple it to 120 people got infected on Election Day .. that's 40 of 413,000 in-person voters. That's .009% .. and WI is averaging 160 per day.
Once we "open" back up .. we're going to have these kinds of spikes constantly.
Honestly, the election showed a path of holding an event extraordinarily safely.
Yeah, any number north of zero sucks. Welcome to the new world. Gonna be like this for two more years.
+1. New reality. Painful but reasonable - better (IMO) than panic.
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+1. New reality. Painful but reasonable - better (IMO) than panic.
Not really a new reality. life will go back to normal, relatively shortly. The Spanish flu was waaaaaaaaaay worse and life went back to normal.
Were not talking about 9/11 style changes (as some on here have said)
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Not really a new reality. life will go back to normal, relatively shortly. The Spanish flu was waaaaaaaaaay worse and life went back to normal.
Were not talking about 9/11 style changes (as some on here have said)
We'll have to wait and see.
There's a LOT that could change in this country as a result of this pandemic. Healthcare, economy, politics, etc.
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Not really a new reality. life will go back to normal, relatively shortly. The Spanish flu was waaaaaaaaaay worse and life went back to normal.
Were not talking about 9/11 style changes (as some on here have said)
I will say comparing this to the Spanish Flu at this point is like declaring a basketball champ in the first half of game one. And god I hope we do better than the Spanish flu. We have better technology, medical system and more resources to battle this than the early 1900s
Frankly my biggest disappointment is we are only throwing social distancing at it to date. But then again it’s only been 4 months in total.
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Not really a new reality. life will go back to normal, relatively shortly. The Spanish flu was waaaaaaaaaay worse and life went back to normal.
Were not talking about 9/11 style changes (as some on here have said)
I think that life will return to 90% of normal. As soon as there is widespread antibodies testing as well as an effective treatment, I think society will collectively roll the dice and start striving for a return to a semblance of normalcy.
But if we as a society fail to learn lessons from this and strive to improve our institutions, then we as a society will deserve the next, worse, pandemic.
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I think that life will return to 90% of normal. As soon as there is widespread antibodies testing as well as an effective treatment, I think society will collectively roll the dice and start striving for a return to a semblance of normalcy.
But if we as a society fail to learn lessons from this and strive to improve our institutions, then we as a society will deserve the next, worse, pandemic.
What institutions are you referring to? WHO, FDA?
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What institutions are you referring to? WHO, FDA?
You really need to ask?
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All. Health care. Education. WHO. CDC. Congress. The military. Voters. Anybody who doesn't learn from this is a fool.
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Not really a new reality. life will go back to normal, relatively shortly. The Spanish flu was waaaaaaaaaay worse and life went back to normal.
Were not talking about 9/11 style changes (as some on here have said)
This should age well.
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You really need to ask?
Blaming this on a single entity cough cough party is asinine.
Just in wisconsin Evers was slow to act.
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Blaming this on a single entity cough cough party is asinine.
Just in wisconsin Evers was slow to act.
The legislature thinks he was too fast to act.
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Not really a new reality. life will go back to normal, relatively shortly. The Spanish flu was waaaaaaaaaay worse and life went back to normal.
Were not talking about 9/11 style changes (as some on here have said)
Ah yes, those 9/11 changes of taking off our shoes at the airport unless you pay $100 for TSA Pre Check.
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Not really a new reality. life will go back to normal, relatively shortly. The Spanish flu was waaaaaaaaaay worse and life went back to normal.
Were not talking about 9/11 style changes (as some on here have said)
Not to minimize the effects of 9/11, or to disrespect those who died and suffered as a result, but I suspect most NYers would say this is making 9/11 look like a walk in the park.
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This should age well.
Better or worse then your prediction the national guard would be out patrolling the streets handing out large fines for those not abiding by the stay at home orders?
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Better or worse then your prediction the national guard would be out patrolling the streets handing out large fines for those not abiding by the stay at home orders?
;D ;D
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All. Health care. Education. WHO. CDC. Congress. The military. Voters. Anybody who doesn't learn from this is a fool.
That’s fair I guess and there are certainly lessons to be learned I think when it comes to public transportation and overall hygiene but trying to better understand how this can be prevented moving forward from an institutional angle. Check temperatures at airports, close borders, make a law requiring social distance, alternating days at school?
It’s easy to throw out platitudes but when you’re weighing civil liberties and basic constitutional rights I’m not sure what anyone can do.
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Ah yes, those 9/11 changes of taking off our shoes at the airport unless you pay $100 for TSA Pre Check.
:o
Not sure if trolling or dumb.
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Not to minimize the effects of 9/11, or to disrespect those who died and suffered as a result, but I suspect most NYers would say this is making 9/11 look like a walk in the park.
As someone who dates a NYC resident who had a brother in law that worked downtown at the time, works with many lifelong New Yorkers, and has multiple associates who lost loved ones in 9/11. Not a chance.
I’ve spent the last 7 weeks here. The general mood ranges from uneasy to surreal to fairly normal, albeit a bit strange. The mood post-9/11 is not even comparable. Sure COVID has claimed more lives, but it didn’t snatch nearly 3000 people in hours, people simply not coming home, and leaving a literally smoking crater in the heart of the city. NYC won’t have to collectively rebuild both physically and as city spirit after this. Losing loved ones or someone you know to sickness is hard, losing them to unexpected murder is far more severe. The vast majority of New Yorkers haven’t had the jarring visual or physical experience with COVID that they did on 9/11
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All. Health care. Education. WHO. CDC. Congress. The military. Voters. Anybody who doesn't learn from this is a fool.
What would it mean to learn in this case? Using the simplest of examples should we have masks for every man, woman and child up to what number of masks each? Is it 5, is it 25, is it 100?
Now the same exercise on medicine. Should we have China or any other country making half of our medications?
Now the same exercise on salaries. If you want the best and brightest finding cures, developing drugs, you need to pay them a considerable wage which requires their products are charged a significant price to pay for those wages.
Should our travel policies be much more restrictive? Should our foreign borders be closed? So many examples.
We all have to ask ourselves what does it mean to learn from this? What does it mean to be safe? What freedoms are we giving up? What risks are we willing to live with for an event that happens once every 250 years vs the enormous costs to try and insulate ourself against every possible outcome. What are the tradeoffs in treasure, civil liberties, resources, health (mental and physical). Interesting questions to debate in the next decade.
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What would it mean to learn in this case? Using the simplest of examples should we have masks for every man, woman and child up to what number of masks each? Is it 5, is it 25, is it 100?
Now the same exercise on medicine. Should we have China or any other country making half of our medications?
Now the same exercise on salaries. If you want the best and brightest finding cures, developing drugs, you need to pay them a considerable wage which requires their products are charged a significant price to pay for those wages.
Should our travel policies be much more restrictive? Should our foreign borders be closed? So many examples.
We all have to ask ourselves what does it mean to learn from this? What does it mean to be safe? What freedoms are we giving up? What risks are we willing to live with for an event that happens once every 250 years vs the enormous costs to try and insulate ourself against every possible outcome. What are the tradeoffs in treasure, civil liberties, resources, health (mental and physical). Interesting questions to debate in the next decade.
How about this...when other major countries start shutting down due to a health crisis that is jumping from one country to the next, listen to your health experts and start preparing for it to hit your country, rather than relying on a miracle (the words of the man you *did not* vote for).
Seems like a simple, good starting point.
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How about this...when other major countries start shutting down due to a health crisis that is jumping from one country to the next, listen to your health experts and start preparing for it to hit your country, rather than relying on a miracle (the words of the man you *did not* vote for).
Seems like a simple, good starting point.
This is great entertainment, Wades. The more he tries to prove he is not Chico, the more he sounds just like him.
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Better or worse then your prediction the national guard would be out patrolling the streets handing out large fines for those not abiding by the stay at home orders?
Guess you're just going to ignore the "or" there. Boy that's convenient for your argument.
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How about this...when other major countries start shutting down due to a health crisis that is jumping from one country to the next, listen to your health experts and start preparing for it to hit your country, rather than relying on a miracle (the words of the man you *did not* vote for).
Seems like a simple, good starting point.
Remember when trump banned travel from China and Biden called him a xenophobe and Pelosi told everyone to venture to Chinatown to show support?
Ya this was a failing at all levels, on both sides.
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Remember when trump banned travel from China and Biden called him a xenophobe and Pelosi told everyone to venture to Chinatown to show support?
Ya this was a failing at all levels, on both sides.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/27/donald-trump/fact-checking-whether-biden-called-trump-xenophobi/
Biden said Trump has a history of Xenophobia. Right after he wrote an editorial warning about the lack of preparation for the coming Pandemic.
But yes, there is plenty of failure and learning opportunities to go around.
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Remember when trump banned travel from China and Biden called him a xenophobe and Pelosi told everyone to venture to Chinatown to show support?
Ya this was a failing at all levels, on both sides.
Biden's not the President. Pelosi isn't the President. The idea that you would put up these two at the same level as the elected leader of the country and say "ah well...both sides" is really dumb. You are giving the guy who heads the government a pass by lumping him in with a former vice president who holds no position now, and a Congresswoman.
I guess you fall for Trump's anti-Trumanesque line: the buck stops somwhere else....never here.
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Biden's not the President. Pelosi isn't the President. The idea that you would put up these two at the same level as the elected leader of the country and say "ah well...both sides" is really dumb. You are giving the guy who heads the government a pass by lumping him in with a former vice president who holds no position now, and a Congresswoman.
I guess you fall for Trump's anti-Trumanesque line: the buck stops somwhere else....never here.
What of all the state governors who also were to slow to act.
Why was Wisconsin border not closed? Why wasn't milwaukee placed into lockdown? Evers was slow to act, so was every single elected official in the country.
Maybe we should remove all of them.
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But if we as a society fail to learn lessons from this and strive to improve our institutions, then we as a society will deserve the next, worse, pandemic.
We learned a lot from H1N1 and Ebola. Unfortunately someone dismantled the structures that were put in place, ignored their PDBs throughout January and February, and tried to wish the pandemic away.
No one thinks COVID-19 wouldn't have still happened, but we were prepared to mitigate the effects. There were institutions in place and a playbook (originally developed during Bush's 2nd term FWIW) to handle this which was ignored/thrown away, costing many tens of thousands of lives and likely damaging the economy much more than if we had handled this by the book.
I wish I had any confidence that we've learned anything from this, but I suspect there are still too many people that think gaslighting exemplifies "exceptional leadership".
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What of all the state governors who also were to slow to act.
Why was Wisconsin border not closed? Why wasn't milwaukee placed into lockdown? Evers was slow to act, so was every single elected official in the country.
Maybe we should remove all of them.
Uhh...what?
Wisconsin started talking about safer at home in mid March before many states. When it was obvious after a weekend and the early part of St. Patricks Day that people weren't paying attention he mandated it. There was less than 100 postive tests in the state at the time.
He by and large did what he could, using methods he could control. Compare and contrast to the President...who has a little more power, authority and resources at his disposal than a state governor.
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Governors really only had one tool in their toolbox. Quarantine. Michigan had its first confirmed case on March 10 and started closing down on March 12.
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Remember when trump banned travel from China and Biden called him a xenophobe and Pelosi told everyone to venture to Chinatown to show support?
Ya this was a failing at all levels, on both sides.
I do not recall that. I do wish our “leader” had shown any preparation for when this hit. I’m glad our “leader” put a travel ban in place earlier than some thought he should have. If he would’ve done anything to prepare us for getting hit by covid 19 the ban might’ve made a difference. But here we are opening the country back up despite not meeting any of the criteria set forth by the guidelines our federal government gave us to reopen.
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I do not recall that. I do wish our “leader” had shown any preparation for when this hit. I’m glad our “leader” put a travel ban in place earlier than some thought he should have. If he would’ve done anything to prepare us for getting hit by covid 19 the ban might’ve made a difference. But here we are opening the country back up despite not meeting any of the criteria set forth by the guidelines our federal government gave us to reopen.
And it wasn't even really a ban.
Plus, studies have shown that COVID-19 actually came here from Europe.
But don't worry ... President Pandemic has now ordered full investigations into conspiracy theories that the virus was manufactured in Wuhan and sent to America to kill us all. He is desperate to blame as many people not named Trump as possible. Given his plummeting approval rating, I don't blame him.
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Why was Wisconsin border not closed? Why wasn't milwaukee placed into lockdown? Evers was slow to act, so was every single elected official in the country.
https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/the-census/n11327 (https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/the-census/n11327)
At 2:45
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Remember when trump banned travel from China and Biden called him a xenophobe and Pelosi told everyone to venture to Chinatown to show support?
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/whataboutism
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https://www.dictionary.com/browse/whataboutism
Yes, this is whataboutism, and much could have/should have been said and done differently. But FFS, what a bunch of selective memories people have.
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What of all the state governors who also were to slow to act.
Why was Wisconsin border not closed? Why wasn't milwaukee placed into lockdown? Evers was slow to act, so was every single elected official in the country.
Maybe we should remove all of them.
I don't think a State can close its border due to the impact on interstate commerce.
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What of all the state governors who also were to slow to act.
Why was Wisconsin border not closed? Why wasn't milwaukee placed into lockdown? Evers was slow to act, so was every single elected official in the country.
Maybe we should remove all of them.
It seems as though you say this to excuse the utter incompetence at the national level. Evers issued the stay at home order when there were well under 500 cases in Wisconsin. The US has less than 5% of the world's population. The US has 33% of the world's covid cases (Based on current stats and yes, I know these are not exact numbers).
There have been governors of both parties that have done an outstanding job trying to protect their states. There have also been governors of only one party that just want to please the white house and have little to no regard for their citizens. There are currently governors in several states sentencing people to death - ordering them to work in mass-infected meat plants without proper protection. Any refusal to do so will be a forfeiture or unemployment rights.
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There are currently governors in several states sentencing people to death - ordering them to work in mass-infected meat plants without proper protection. Any refusal to do so will be a forfeiture or unemployment rights.
While I agree with you on this. I will echo a post you told me a few weeks ago.
"lifes not fair, be glad you get to go out and risk your life each day while others stay at home"
;D
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While I agree with you on this. I will echo a post you told me a few weeks ago.
"lifes not fair, be glad you get to go out and risk your life each day while others stay at home"
;D
Glad you put the smiley face there.
What I said was "My point was life doesn’t have to be fair. If you are on the frontlines, then I commend you and give the utmost respect".
Just a bit different than what you say that I said.
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Meat processors are on the front lines?
I'm guessing that when most folks agreed to work at those plants, they didn't know that.
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It seems as though you say this to excuse the utter incompetence at the national level. Evers issued the stay at home order when there were well under 500 cases in Wisconsin. The US has less than 5% of the world's population. The US has 33% of the world's covid cases (Based on current stats and yes, I know these are not exact numbers).
There have been governors of both parties that have done an outstanding job trying to protect their states. There have also been governors of only one party that just want to please the white house and have little to no regard for their citizens. There are currently governors in several states sentencing people to death - ordering them to work in mass-infected meat plants without proper protection. Any refusal to do so will be a forfeiture or unemployment rights.
[/quote
I know Cuomo has made some shaky decisions when it comes to putting people in harms way but what other governors are you referring too?
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Meat processors are on the front lines?
I'm guessing that when most folks agreed to work at those plants, they didn't know that.
I’m sure same can be said for pot shops, liquor stores, Home Depot, on and on.....the list of front line essential workers is pretty long and very random state by state
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It seems as though you say this to excuse the utter incompetence at the national level. Evers issued the stay at home order when there were well under 500 cases in Wisconsin. The US has less than 5% of the world's population. The US has 33% of the world's covid cases (Based on current stats and yes, I know these are not exact numbers).
There have been governors of both parties that have done an outstanding job trying to protect their states. There have also been governors of only one party that just want to please the white house and have little to no regard for their citizens. There are currently governors in several states sentencing people to death - ordering them to work in mass-infected meat plants without proper protection. Any refusal to do so will be a forfeiture or unemployment rights.
Some area of the US have been a disaster, others not nearly as bad. New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts and Connecticut represent 11.8% of the population but (according to the IMHE model) will account for 56% of the deaths from Covid. Add Michigan, Pennsylvania, Illinois and Louisiana to that number and you have less than 25% of the population accounting for more than 70% of fatalities. Meanwhile, California, Florida and Texas represent 27.1% of the population but will contribute only 7.2% of the deaths.
Don’t know if it’s true, but someone texted me that Governor Cuomo was forcing nursing home to admit or re admit positive testing patients while beds at the Javitts Center and on that ship that was sent to him went unused. Again, just something I was told, but if true he’s the only governor I know with blood on his hands.
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What of all the state governors who also were to slow to act.
Why was Wisconsin border not closed? Why wasn't milwaukee placed into lockdown? Evers was slow to act, so was every single elected official in the country.
Maybe we should remove all of them.
I'll make you a deal : I won't vote for Cuomo and you don't vote for Trump. This isn't about being "slow to act" , this is about having no plan and no semblance of leadership throughout.
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Some area of the US have been a disaster, others not nearly as bad. New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts and Connecticut represent 11.8% of the population but (according to the IMHE model) will account for 56% of the deaths from Covid. Add Michigan, Pennsylvania, Illinois and Louisiana to that number and you have less than 25% of the population accounting for more than 70% of fatalities. Meanwhile, California, Florida and Texas represent 27.1% of the population but will contribute only 7.2% of the deaths.
Don’t know if it’s true, but someone texted me that Governor Cuomo was forcing nursing home to admit or re admit positive testing patients while beds at the Javitts Center and on that ship that was sent to him went unused. Again, just something I was told, but if true he’s the only governor I know with blood on his hands.
Your friend was right. Navy ship and field hospitals sat empty while he was forcing nursing home residents who tested positive right back into the nursing home. An insane decision.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wgrz.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/cuomo-nursing-homes-dont-have-the-right-to-object-to-order-requiring-admission-of-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/71-370ce285-0a0d-4df1-90c5-b5af508444df
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I’m sure same can be said for pot shops, liquor stores, Home Depot, on and on.....the list of front line essential workers is pretty long and very random state by state
Employees at pot shops, liquor stores, Home Depot, and on and on ... aren't being ordered back to work in unsafe factories in which hundreds upon hundreds of them are getting sick, many seriously ill, some dead.
Don't toss out strawman arguments. They don't help your case.
My "front lines" comment obviously was referring to the likes of doctors and nurses -- who know that, at some point in their careers, it's possible they will have to deal with situations like this. I'm married to a nurse. She has always known it.
However, I seriously doubt some guy processing ham hocks thought he would have to deal with this kind of thing. And I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt he thought that the president of the United States would try to force him to.
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Don’t know if it’s true, but someone texted me that Governor Cuomo was forcing nursing home to admit or re admit positive testing patients while beds at the Javitts Center and on that ship that was sent to him went unused. Again, just something I was told, but if true he’s the only governor I know with blood on his hands.
I am not about to defend Cuomo but this appears to be crap originating from The New York Post. Can't find it substantiated in any legitimate news source. Wouldn't advise posting based on what "someone texted me ".
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I am not about to defend Cuomo but this appears to be crap originating from The New York Post. Can't find it substantiated in any legitimate news source. Wouldn't advise posting based on what "someone texted me ".
I clearly stated that this was only something I heard and that I could not vouch for its veracity. But I would advise also that saying it’s false because it was reported in the NY Post seems a bit out on the limb.
Edit: I just googled “Did Governor Cuomo force nursing homes to admit or re admit patients testing positive for Covid 19” multiple sources, including NBC news, say yes.
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I clearly stated that this was only something I heard and that I could not vouch for its veracity. But I would advise also that saying it’s false because it was reported in the NY Post seems a bit out on the limb.
You obviously have little familiarity with the Post. Its like quoting Breitbart. But here's a legitimate story-
bottom line : its a dangerous dumb policy and it should be changed but "there is no evidence so far that the practice has allowed infections to spread in nursing homes"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/nursing-homes-coronavirus.html
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You obviously have little familiarity with the Post. Its like quoting Breitbart. But here's a legitimate story-
bottom line : its a dangerous dumb policy and it should be changed but "there is no evidence so far that the practice has allowed infections to spread in nursing homes"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/nursing-homes-coronavirus.html
So no evidence YET that the “Russian roulette” has resulted in any deaths. Maybe he’ll be lucky and his edict to force nursing homes to admit infected people when there are empty hospital beds elsewhere won’t kill anyone. But if that’s not a policy that willfully puts the most vulnerable at serious risk for no reason....
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So no evidence YET that the “Russian roulette” has resulted in any deaths. Maybe he’ll be lucky and his edict to force nursing homes to admit infected people when there are empty hospital beds elsewhere won’t kill anyone. But if that’s not a policy that willfully puts the most vulnerable at serious risk for no reason....
True. except the story indicates that Cuomo wasn't even aware of the policy so its not his "edict". And the policy exists in Jersy and California. Which may be damning with faint praise. Bear in mind that a few weeks ago there weren't empty hospital beds elsewhere - they were putting patients in Central Park. Cuomo needs to be given some credit for the fact that we survived that.
My point is though that we should be careful about posting rumors and unsupported speculation. And I was surprised because you are usually someone who supports your statements.
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Don’t know if it’s true, but someone texted me that Governor Cuomo was forcing nursing home to admit or re admit positive testing patients while beds at the Javitts Center and on that ship that was sent to him went unused. Again, just something I was told, but if true he’s the only governor I know with blood on his hands.
Lenny, it's not entirely true. What the policy is, is that patients discharged from the hospital will be returned to nursing facilities, PROVIDED, the nursing facilities are able to accept the patient and adequately treat the patient while keeping them isolated.
If they are unable to do so, the nursing facility is supposed to alert the hospital, and they will find alternative treatment options. No one is being forced to take anyone.
It is true that Javitt's has empty beds, but that is for patients admitted to hospitals then transferred to Javitt's, not discharged patients. So they can't be simply transferred to Javitt's (which is run by the feds).
I still agree, I think it is a bad policy, but we don't have COVID only recovery centers in the US, like other nations did at the federal level.
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https://www.wbay.com/content/news/Wisconsin-sees-jump-in-new-coronavirus-cases-570085661.html
MADISON, Wis. (WBAY) - Wisconsin saw a jump in positive tests for the coronavirus in the state Department of Health Services' latest report.
There were 334 more confirmed cases since Wednesday. That's the largest number of new cases since the coronavirus was first reported in Wisconsin.
State health officials have said they expected more cases as testing ramps up, but Thursday's report represents 10.8% of the 3,098 tests that came back -- a sharp break from the recent downward trend.
There are now 6,854 confirmed cases, and 316 COVID-19 patients have died.
On a positive note, the DHS says 3,352 patients (49% of all cases) are considered recovered. Health Services considers a patient recovered if 30 days have passed since they first showed symptoms or were diagnosed, or health care workers documented that the patient's symptoms have resolved or they're out of isolation.
Testing reveals more people are positive than expected. Glad that testing is ramping up.
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As for the NY/Cuomo debate (which should be in some other thread):
This is a massive tsunami of overwhelming issues, and mistakes are going to be made.
This isn't a war of success .. a more appropriate metric is who fails the least.
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This isn't a war of success .. a more appropriate metric is who fails the least.
I'm reminded of the Teddy Roosevelt quote with this point. It's a good point and I think those judged favorably long past this crisis will generally be those who can show their actions.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
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Patients test positive for weeks after initial positive test. We don’t know how long they are contagious, but the general assumption is that if they aren’t aerosolizing, they can’t spread the virus. So if nursing homes patients aren’t on high oxygen anymore, it’s assumed that they are not spreading it around. Whether that’s true or not, I have no idea.
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We went to our other place (about 10 miles from Devils Lake) today. Very few people around. Just rode up by Lake Delton and hardly a car in sight with restaurants and hotels closed.
Will go hiking at Devils Lake tomorrow. I expect at least a few people there with 70 degree weather.
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the ICU at Columbia/St. Mary’s and at St Joes is emptying out. Most of the really sick COVID patients have been discharged and doing better.
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the ICU at Columbia/St. Mary’s and at St Joes is emptying out. Most of the really sick COVID patients have been discharged and doing better.
Madison has less then 20 total all floors, all hospitals.
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Well that is good news.
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At Devils Lake today, it was fairly crowded - maybe half of what a normal 75 degree day in May would be. No large groups. Looked to be almost all single family units. I didn’t see any gathering of kids with more than three in the group.
Stopped at Menards. Masks were mandatory and no children under 16 allowed. Stopped at a Walmart to get a redbox movie. It was at 25% capacity. Looks like a big effort in a rural area to contain the virus.
People obviously listening to Evers and ignoring Vos/Fitzgerald.
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Yep, that must be the case. Lol.
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At Devils Lake today, it was fairly crowded - maybe half of what a normal 75 degree day in May would be. No large groups. Looked to be almost all single family units. I didn’t see any gathering of kids with more than three in the group.
Stopped at Menards. Masks were mandatory and no children under 16 allowed. Stopped at a Walmart to get a redbox movie. It was at 25% capacity. Looks like a big effort in a rural area to contain the virus.
People obviously listening to Evers and ignoring Vos/Fitzgerald.
Is it possible for you to make a statement without political commentary?
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At Devils Lake today, it was fairly crowded - maybe half of what a normal 75 degree day in May would be. No large groups. Looked to be almost all single family units. I didn’t see any gathering of kids with more than three in the group.
Stopped at Menards. Masks were mandatory and no children under 16 allowed. Stopped at a Walmart to get a redbox movie. It was at 25% capacity. Looks like a big effort in a rural area to contain the virus.
People obviously listening to Evers and ignoring Vos/Fitzgerald.
On Friday, the Kenosha Menards was full, literally looking for cars to leave for a spot. Decided to just hit up one in Illinois where people aren’t just out shopping for flowers and knick knacks.
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At Devils Lake today, it was fairly crowded - maybe half of what a normal 75 degree day in May would be. No large groups. Looked to be almost all single family units. I didn’t see any gathering of kids with more than three in the group.
Stopped at Menards. Masks were mandatory and no children under 16 allowed. Stopped at a Walmart to get a redbox movie. It was at 25% capacity. Looks like a big effort in a rural area to contain the virus.
People obviously listening to Evers and ignoring Vos/Fitzgerald.
Going to have to disagree. The wife and FIL stopped at the Walmart in Delavan and said it was very busy, and basically no one was wearing a mask.
A step further, a lot of people from Dane County frequent the Devil's Lake area... so you're probably seeing a lot of them.
All of this is, of course, anecdotal.
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Going to have to disagree. The wife and FIL stopped at the Walmart in Delavan and said it was very busy, and basically no one was wearing a mask.
A step further, a lot of people from Dane County frequent the Devil's Lake area... so you're probably seeing a lot of them.
All of this is, of course, anecdotal.
Normally, I don’t shop at Walmart so I don’t even know if there are restrictions at the one in Racine. But there definitely are up here.
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Is it possible for you to make a statement without political commentary?
So you think that since most people are following Evers’ recommendations and are against opening too soon is political?
It is simply fact. Evers issued safe-at-home. Vos is calling for opening up. Most people don’t want to play Russian roulette with their lives.
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Going to have to disagree. The wife and FIL stopped at the Walmart in Delavan and said it was very busy, and basically no one was wearing a mask.
I rarely go to Walmart but Mrs. 82 and I went yesterday. It was quite crowded, and WAAAAAY too many people were not wearing masks. It was like being at an effen Mouth-Breather Convention.
Actually looking forward to going to Costco this week; they are requiring masks starting tomorrow.
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The Wisconsin Hospital Association has a nice dashboard. https://www.wha.org/COVID19Update Admissions are up over the last week, however ICU patients are down. Really can't stop any restrictions right now.
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The Wisconsin Hospital Association has a nice dashboard. https://www.wha.org/COVID19Update Admissions are up over the last week, however ICU patients are down. Really can't stop any restrictions right now.
looks like WI flattened the curve.
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https://www.wbay.com/content/news/Wisconsin-sees-jump-in-new-coronavirus-cases-570085661.html
Testing reveals more people are positive than expected. Glad that testing is ramping up.
Meh, we pretty much already knew that covid was very contagious and less deadly then what the stats said
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So you think that since most people are following Evers’ recommendations and are against opening too soon is political?
It is simply fact. Evers issued safe-at-home. Vos is calling for opening up. Most people don’t want to play Russian roulette with their lives.
so what..."most" people already knew this, but "russian roulette"?? really?? that's going a little over board 'strap. from yous guys who took offense at "wuhan" flu. well i take offense at "russian roulette" and all those who've fallen victim to it
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so what..."most" people already knew this, but "russian roulette"?? really?? that's going a little over board 'strap. from yous guys who took offense at "wuhan" flu. well i take offense at "russian roulette" and all those who've fallen victim to it
wow, being offended as disingenuous performative internet posturing, how very original.
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so what..."most" people already knew this, but "russian roulette"?? really?? that's going a little over board 'strap. from yous guys who took offense at "wuhan" flu. well i take offense at "russian roulette" and all those who've fallen victim to it
Lol...what???
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I'm reminded of the Teddy Roosevelt quote with this point. It's a good point and I think those judged favorably long past this crisis will generally be those who can show their actions.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
There are honest critics on Scoop. There are even some (Tower comes to mind) among those honest critics who actually strive to be part of the solution. But Teddy R was right in the main.
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so what..."most" people already knew this, but "russian roulette"?? really?? that's going a little over board 'strap. from yous guys who took offense at "wuhan" flu. well i take offense at "russian roulette" and all those who've fallen victim to it
Admitting that you are only pretending to be offended is a bold move Cotton, let's see if it pays off for you.
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Admitting that you are only pretending to be offended is a bold move Cotton, let's see if it pays off for you.
why, some of my best friends are slavik
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really hope things are thought out carefully and Wisconsin does not open up completely. The phased approach will serve us much better
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Hey, remember those stay-at-home protests in Madison?
https://www.channel3000.com/72-got-covid-19-after-being-at-large-event/ (https://www.channel3000.com/72-got-covid-19-after-being-at-large-event/)
72/1500 attendees = 4.8% got the COVID.
Edit: Maybe. Headline jumps to conclusions.
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Hey, remember those stay-at-home protests in Madison?
https://www.channel3000.com/72-got-covid-19-after-being-at-large-event/
72/1500 attendees = 4.8% got the COVID.
Very misleading article. It doesn't say that 72 people who attended that rally tested positive. It says 72 people "who attended a large gathering" did. It doesn't specificy WHAT large gathering they attended. It could have been a family birthday party for all we know.
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Very misleading article. It doesn't say that 72 people who attended that rally tested positive. It says 72 people "who attended a large gathering" did. It doesn't specificy WHAT large gathering they attended. It could have been a family birthday party for all we know.
That's a good point. I think .. the AP story is factual. The headline the website added is the problem.
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https://madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-retail-stores-allowed-to-reopen-under-new-order/article_32d3e16a-2307-5988-8f4f-72b5b75f83c0.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
May the odds be ever in your favor, guys and gals.
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14 day decrease in positives, step one of opening back up.
https://wkow.com/2020/05/11/6-4-percent-of-covid-19-tests-come-back-positive-9-more-dead/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_WKOW (https://wkow.com/2020/05/11/6-4-percent-of-covid-19-tests-come-back-positive-9-more-dead/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_WKOW)
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(https://i.imgur.com/o5Tx4Sz.jpg)
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14 day decrease in positives, step one of opening back up.
https://wkow.com/2020/05/11/6-4-percent-of-covid-19-tests-come-back-positive-9-more-dead/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_WKOW (https://wkow.com/2020/05/11/6-4-percent-of-covid-19-tests-come-back-positive-9-more-dead/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_WKOW)
May be short lived. Check out what is happening to Germany.
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14 day decrease in positives, step one of opening back up.
https://wkow.com/2020/05/11/6-4-percent-of-covid-19-tests-come-back-positive-9-more-dead/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_WKOW (https://wkow.com/2020/05/11/6-4-percent-of-covid-19-tests-come-back-positive-9-more-dead/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_WKOW)
So .. a couple things:
1. That is not a 14 day decrease. 4 of the 14 days, the %age went up.
2. Can someone please explain how that's a statistic that means anything?
Positive tests divided by total tests? That'd be an important stat if huge magnitudes of people were getting tests. Otherwise, it seems to be a rather meaningless figure, based on test volume. If a new test site opens .. or a bunch of people decide they want tests .. or a bunch of people decide it's a beautiful day and they'll feel better tomorrow .. bang, your number is at the whim of who goes in that day.
Just this week, there are multiple sites opening specifically with "no symptoms required" .. it's a guarantee that the Pos/Total %age will plummet. Construing that as a "positive trend" is daffy.
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CT has a goal for absolute number of tests and number of positive tests as a percent of total tests (<10%).
If you have both it points to what you allude to Hilltopper. If you cherry pick one or the other it is potentially meaningless.
As an aside here is our governors reopen criteria and progress. It’s probably not perfect to all but feels well thought out. This one is a couple days old.
https://housedems.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=d5ebe2531c17a98b4479a09e7&id=583b0fe670&e=4863e4bb37 (https://housedems.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=d5ebe2531c17a98b4479a09e7&id=583b0fe670&e=4863e4bb37)
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So .. a couple things:
1. That is not a 14 day decrease. 4 of the 14 days, the %age went up.
2. Can someone please explain how that's a statistic that means anything?
Positive tests divided by total tests? That'd be an important stat if huge magnitudes of people were getting tests. Otherwise, it seems to be a rather meaningless figure, based on test volume. If a new test site opens .. or a bunch of people decide they want tests .. or a bunch of people decide it's a beautiful day and they'll feel better tomorrow .. bang, your number is at the whim of who goes in that day.
Just this week, there are multiple sites opening specifically with "no symptoms required" .. it's a guarantee that the Pos/Total %age will plummet. Construing that as a "positive trend" is daffy.
14 days is the governor's metric, not mine.
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14 days is the governor's metric, not mine.
Right, right, I was just asking about the stat itself.
.. another element: 90+% of people who think they have symptoms and want the test .. are wrong. As education about the virus goes up (which is good) .. the Positives/Total go up too ("bad") because fewer negatives will go get tested.
Seems like a nonsense stat.
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Right, right, I was just asking about the stat itself.
.. another element: 90+% of people who think they have symptoms and want the test .. are wrong. As education about the virus goes up (which is good) .. the Positives/Total go up too ("bad") because fewer negatives will go get tested.
Seems like a nonsense stat.
If you are testing broadly and you have a low percent positive it means you understand total infections to some degree. If you are testing broadly and the positive test percent is high—virus out of control. Best case is random samples to catch the asymptomatic, coupled with low percent positive.
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If you are testing broadly and you have a low percent positive it means you understand total infections to some degree. If you are testing broadly and the positive test percent is high—virus out of control. Best case is random samples to catch the asymptomatic, coupled with low percent positive.
My man.
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No surprise. Supreme court rules against Evers.
Guess the justices can come out of their bunkers now.
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Damn your obsessed.
FIFY
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Ironically, Evers "Badger Bounce Back" plan followed the guidelines set up by the White House. Frankly it is a sensible plan that makes sense but who knows what's going to happen now.
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Ironically, Evers "Badger Bounce Back" plan followed the guidelines set up by the White House. Frankly it is a sensible plan that makes sense but who knows what's going to happen now.
Its called partisan tribalism. If trump does it. Its great. Hes doing a great job. If a guy with a D next to his name does it. Its terrible. Its tyranny. Its communism. Both sides do this but yeahhh
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State republicans ask for a stay of the ruling so they can come up with a plan to re-Open Wisconsin.
Hope they don’t feel rushed
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What a total mess. Nice job, everyone.
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I feed off the chaos.
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So .. curious for any law talking guys. Our area passed an emergency order which granted our Health Department certain powers .. hours later, they issued an order to close all bars and restaurants. If I remember the timing, the next day, the Gov issued stay-at-home order #1.
So .. if the Gov's order is overturned .. don't the local health department orders still stand?
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State republicans ask for a stay of the ruling so they can come up with a plan to re-Open Wisconsin.
Hope they don’t feel rushed
So it’s more about a power grab than about Covid?
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Also .. I can't wait to tell my kids they're going to school tomorrow.
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So it’s more about a power grab than about Covid?
Oh, certainly not. Rule of law or something
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Its called partisan tribalism. If trump does it. Its great. Hes doing a great job. If a guy with a D next to his name does it. Its terrible. Its tyranny. Its communism. Both sides do this but yeahhh
That goes both ways with endless examples on both sides.
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That goes both ways with endless examples on both sides.
Yeah thats what i said
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Oh, certainly not. Rule of law or something
Are you saying Wisconsin is the only state that follows the rule of law?
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Now counties are doing their own safer at home orders which the court left the door open to.
Had a statewide plan based on White House guidelines and now we will have a mish mash of various county and city based orders.
What a f*cking mess.
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Or, local and county health departments can do what is best for their area.
Dane Co already issued virtually the same order as the governor, so madison is still shut down.
Counties up north with no cases can reopen as they see fit.
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Also .. I can't wait to tell my kids they're going to school tomorrow.
The court ruled that schools stay closed.
I'd still F with your kids though.
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The court ruled that schools stay closed.
I'd still F with your kids though.
I 100% did that. If you are a parent who has not done that already, you're not doing it right.
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Or, local and county health departments can do what is best for their area.
Dane Co already issued virtually the same order as the governor, so madison is still shut down.
Counties up north with no cases can reopen as they see fit.
The Wisconsin legislature can always ratify Evers’ order or make their own law. SCOTUS is just saying Evers doesn’t have the authority on his own to do what he was doing. If the legislature comes in and does the same thing, SCOTUS will affirm it.
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I 100% did that. If you are a parent who has not done that already, you're not doing it right.
I told my wife we should wake them up in the morning, make them get dressed (Catholic school = uniform) and drive them in.
The only thing they know is that the safer at home was ruled out today.
Kids are dumb. ;D
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Or, local and county health departments can do what is best for their area.
Dane Co already issued virtually the same order as the governor, so madison is still shut down.
Counties up north with no cases can reopen as they see fit.
People travel you know.
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People travel you know.
Not to our part of the state.
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People travel you know.
People traveled with Safe at Home too. This isn't the USSR. Yet. Papers? Where are your papers?
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Now counties are doing their own safer at home orders which the court left the door open to.
Had a statewide plan based on White House guidelines and now we will have a mish mash of various county and city based orders.
What a f*cking mess.
Eh This is a lot better. Doesn't make much sense for crivitz to be shut down be cause milwaukee is screwed.
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Anecdotal evidence .. we often go up north to a cabin .. the tavern on the lake has a Facebook page which announced the stay-at-home order was overturned and the bar would be open at 7pm.
In 3 hours, the post has been 'liked' a whopping 143 times, with townies eagerly stating they'd be right over to celebrate.
What utter chaos.
SCOWIS not granting a stay of their order is just a killer. Had they done so, the Gov and legislature would have had a hard deadline to negotiate. Now they have no deadline, and I suspect they will not be able to agree because of course they can't, and it's officially Lord of the Flies time in Wisconsin.
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Anecdotal evidence .. we often go up north to a cabin .. the tavern on the lake has a Facebook page which announced the stay-at-home order was overturned and the bar would be open at 7pm.
In 3 hours, the post has been 'liked' a whopping 143 times, with townies eagerly stating they'd be right over to celebrate.
What utter chaos.
SCOWIS not granting a stay of their order is just a killer. Had they done so, the Gov and legislature would have had a hard deadline to negotiate. Now they have no deadline, and I suspect they will not be able to agree because of course they can't, and it's officially Lord of the Flies time in Wisconsin.
Vos and Fitz missed out badly by not having a plan on Evers desk tomorrow morning. The 6 day stay was erroneously reported earlier today, that would have been a good compromise, putting the deadline at May 21st.
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I 100% did that. If you are a parent who has not done that already, you're not doing it right.
My kids would want to go back to school though :). And everytime my younger one has a meltdown when I'm on a conference call I wish they could go back to school too :).
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Antibody screening is now available at UW health and SSM, for Madison area folks. Scheduling out into June right now.
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Anecdotal evidence .. we often go up north to a cabin .. the tavern on the lake has a Facebook page which announced the stay-at-home order was overturned and the bar would be open at 7pm.
In 3 hours, the post has been 'liked' a whopping 143 times, with townies eagerly stating they'd be right over to celebrate.
What utter chaos.
SCOWIS not granting a stay of their order is just a killer. Had they done so, the Gov and legislature would have had a hard deadline to negotiate. Now they have no deadline, and I suspect they will not be able to agree because of course they can't, and it's officially Lord of the Flies time in Wisconsin.
The odds any have it is almost zero. If there spaced out or outside at this point cant blame em
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The odds any have it is almost zero. If there spaced out or outside at this point cant blame em
And the odds that someone up there will have it in the next 2-4 weeks are exponentially higher than they were a day ago. And when families take their summer 'up north' and there is no place to put the sick because the tiny hospitals are full... it'll be just like Long Island all over again. Obviously, the scale will be different.
Good luck everyone, stay safe.
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Vos and Fitz missed out badly by not having a plan on Evers desk tomorrow morning. The 6 day stay was erroneously reported earlier today, that would have been a good compromise, putting the deadline at May 21st.
To be fair, this is where the court erred. They should have issued a stay to give time for something to happen. Simply lifting the order is causing chaos.
I don't think their initial ruling was wrong however. There were conflicting parts of state law, and when that happens the court is usually going to side with the one that requires legislative input.
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People traveled with Safe at Home too. This isn't the USSR. Yet. Papers? Where are your papers?
You're smart enough to know that's not my point. The point is having a patchwork of orders mostly means you have none. If Milwaukee County is locked down but Waukesha County isn't, and you live in Tosa, you're going to Brookfield to eat then heading back to Tosa.
A uniform plan for the state is needed. I hope Evers and the legislature can agree on something soon.
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You're smart enough to know that's not my point. The point is having a patchwork of orders mostly means you have none. If Milwaukee County is locked down but Waukesha County isn't, and you live in Tosa, you're going to Brookfield to eat then heading back to Tosa.
A uniform plan for the state is needed. I hope Evers and the legislature can agree on something soon.
I too hope that people who can't stand each other would come together and do something for the people they represent. But each sides heels are dug in as usual, so I am not holding my breath.
What we get is nothing because anything the Legislature passes Evers will throw in the garbage, and anything he asks for will be left out. So those who want no restrictions win out.
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Just saw the news. Yikes. Sconnies about to get sick.
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Been living in the basement for the last 29 days and haven’t seen my children in the last 31 days because I’ve been working with COVID patients. But I finally get to today, since I don’t go back to COVID until Monday and it’s been 2 weeks. The back and forth on emotions is the worst part of all of this. Happy times are always interrupted by some impending doom set forth by something else. (Thanks Rebecca Bradley!)
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Been living in the basement for the last 29 days and haven’t seen my children in the last 31 days because I’ve been working with COVID patients. But I finally get to today, since I don’t go back to COVID until Monday and it’s been 2 weeks. The back and forth on emotions is the worst part of all of this. Happy times are always interrupted by some impending doom set forth by something else. (Thanks Rebecca Bradley!)
Thanks for what you do -- that has to be incredibly hard.
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I too hope that people who can't stand each other would come together and do something for the people they represent.
Exactly. It is well past time for this. All the usual nonsense can take a back seat for awhile.
I don't think it will, but it most definitely should.
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Exactly. It is well past time for this. All the usual nonsense can take a back seat for awhile.
I don't think it will, but it most definitely should.
Hard to un-poison a well.
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Agree a plan was needed was senseless to destroy the order with no plan. No matter the side you take it works both ways always someone going to be unhappy.
Cant we all just get along
There is no more negotiations it is all or nothing no more meeting in the middle ground. Fun times!!!
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Agree a plan was needed was senseless to destroy the order with no plan. No matter the side you take it works both ways always someone going to be unhappy.
Cant we all just get along
There is no more negotiations it is all or nothing no more meeting in the middle ground. Fun times!!!
I mean, the legislature has only had two months to come up with something. But they don't want anything so that is what we will get. A smarter legislature would have sent multiple bills to Evers and make him look like the jerk for not being willing to compromise or for ignoring the 'will of the people'. But we get what we have. And we deserve it.
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I mean, the legislature has only had two months to come up with something. But they don't want anything so that is what we will get. A smarter legislature would have sent multiple bills to Evers and make him look like the jerk for not being willing to compromise or for ignoring the 'will of the people'. But we get what we have. And we deserve it.
agree the bounce back plan seemed fair to me and we were headed in the right direction. although the one part we had missing before we could move to phase 1 seemed like it would be hard to get past
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Any law talking guys explain: Did SCOWIS give any explanation for no stay of their ruling?
I can accept the legitimacy of the ruling. The emergency powers laws have been cobbled together over decades and likely contain conflicting concepts and imprecision. ~15 years ago, maybe society could have unified for a common good -- that's not the world we live in now.
But what I can't accept/believe is the lack of a stay of SCOWIS' order, which BOTH parties wanted. Those 4 justices had to know not issuing a stay was an absolute hand grenade to public health. It's just mind boggling that they had an option to BRIEFLY protect citizens and decided against it.
Why?
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agree the bounce back plan seemed fair to me and we were headed in the right direction. although the one part we had missing before we could move to phase 1 seemed like it would be hard to get past
Yep. I think the BBB was well done, based on federal guidelines, and was being rolled out with the best of intentions. Hopefully the legislature can either just endorse it and put a different label on it, or come up with something similar.
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Another bad decision making international news and putting citizens at rush for Wisconsin. If all press is good press then I suppose you all are batting 1.000
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Any law talking guys explain: Did SCOWIS give any explanation for no stay of their ruling?
I can accept the legitimacy of the ruling. The emergency powers laws have been cobbled together over decades and likely contain conflicting concepts and imprecision. ~15 years ago, maybe society could have unified for a common good -- that's not the world we live in now.
But what I can't accept/believe is the lack of a stay of SCOWIS' order, which BOTH parties wanted. Those 4 justices had to know not issuing a stay was an absolute hand grenade to public health. It's just mind boggling that they had an option to BRIEFLY protect citizens and decided against it.
Why?
This was my initial response to the news too, 'topper.
There are a lot of emotions on both sides of the issue, and each of us has an opinion. But to not give the sides a few days to try to agree to something ... and instead for four judges to unilaterally decide to hit the nuclear button ... wow. Judicial malpractice IMHO.
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I could have put this in the "humor" thread, but it may be more sad than funny:
Facebook post from a bar up in Door County:
BREAKING NEWS (AP) 8:46 am 5/14/2020
The Baileys Harbor Cornerstone Pub Supreme Court, in a 2-0, unanimous decision, declares that the WI State Supreme Court can OFFICIALLY go F*CK themselves...Justice Harper Salm stated “It seems unethical to put people into harm’s way as employers have to force employees back into jobs that take place in a now dangerous environment. ...
Justice Junah Koehler was more blunt, “I ain’t lettin’ those same four aholes in robes that forced my parents to vote in person, force them into working until they feel safe. crap, they didn’t even have the balls to sit in the same room to make the decision."
It seems until these two change their minds, the Cornerstone will be continuing curbside and carry up...will update this story as it develops...
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I could have put this in the "humor" thread, but it may be more sad than funny:
Facebook post from a bar up in Door County:
BREAKING NEWS (AP) 8:46 am 5/14/2020
The Baileys Harbor Cornerstone Pub Supreme Court, in a 2-0, unanimous decision, declares that the WI State Supreme Court can OFFICIALLY go F*CK themselves...Justice Harper Salm stated “It seems unethical to put people into harm’s way as employers have to force employees back into jobs that take place in a now dangerous environment. ...
Justice Junah Koehler was more blunt, “I ain’t lettin’ those same four aholes in robes that forced my parents to vote in person, force them into working until they feel safe. crap, they didn’t even have the balls to sit in the same room to make the decision."
It seems until these two change their minds, the Cornerstone will be continuing curbside and carry up...will update this story as it develops...
That is funny.
Kind of like Faux pushing for their viewers to get out there and back to work and avoid stay at home orders while the Faux people are broadcasting from their homes and have a corporate mandated work from home order until the end of June?
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Been living in the basement for the last 29 days and haven’t seen my children in the last 31 days because I’ve been working with COVID patients. But I finally get to today, since I don’t go back to COVID until Monday and it’s been 2 weeks. The back and forth on emotions is the worst part of all of this. Happy times are always interrupted by some impending doom set forth by something else. (Thanks Rebecca Bradley!)
That stinks. How have you been communicating with family? Through FaceTime or some other app? Enjoy the family time.
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I could have put this in the "humor" thread, but it may be more sad than funny:
Facebook post from a bar up in Door County:
BREAKING NEWS (AP) 8:46 am 5/14/2020
The Baileys Harbor Cornerstone Pub Supreme Court, in a 2-0, unanimous decision, declares that the WI State Supreme Court can OFFICIALLY go F*CK themselves...Justice Harper Salm stated “It seems unethical to put people into harm’s way as employers have to force employees back into jobs that take place in a now dangerous environment. ...
Justice Junah Koehler was more blunt, “I ain’t lettin’ those same four aholes in robes that forced my parents to vote in person, force them into working until they feel safe. crap, they didn’t even have the balls to sit in the same room to make the decision."
It seems until these two change their minds, the Cornerstone will be continuing curbside and carry up...will update this story as it develops...
It will be interesting. I’m not in any rush to get back into a restaurant or bar anytime soon. Will people start bringing their own glasses?
I could see myself patronizing those that hold out and keep doing pick-up only. At least for a month or so.
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Any law talking guys explain: Did SCOWIS give any explanation for no stay of their ruling?
I can accept the legitimacy of the ruling. The emergency powers laws have been cobbled together over decades and likely contain conflicting concepts and imprecision. ~15 years ago, maybe society could have unified for a common good -- that's not the world we live in now.
But what I can't accept/believe is the lack of a stay of SCOWIS' order, which BOTH parties wanted. Those 4 justices had to know not issuing a stay was an absolute hand grenade to public health. It's just mind boggling that they had an option to BRIEFLY protect citizens and decided against it.
Why?
Fun fact, not really!
Justice Roggensack wrote the majority opinion. In that opinion she wrote:
"We have declared rights under the law wherein we have concluded that Emergency Order 28 is invalid and therefore, unenforceable. Although a very unusual request, on April 21, 2020, the Legislature asked this court to issue a temporary injunction of Emergency Order 28 but then requested a stay of that injunction for at least six days. We perceive this request as being grounded in a concern for an orderly transition from Order 28 to a lawful rule.
However, more than two weeks have passed since we began our consideration of this case. Therefore, we trust that the Legislature and Palm have placed the interests of the people of Wisconsin first and have been working together in good faith to establish a lawful rule that addresses COVID-19 and its devastating effects on Wisconsin. People, businesses and other institutions need to know how to proceed and what is expected of them. Therefore, we place the responsibility for this future law-making with the Legislature and DHS where it belongs." (¶¶ 56-57, Internal citations omitted)
So, essentially she says "you wanted a stay, we took a while to issue the order, so in effect you got one. Hope you used that time wisely!"
But then, she also wrote a concurrence to her own majority opinion in which she wrote:
"Accordingly, although our declaration of rights is effective immediately, I would stay future actions to enforce our decision until May 20, 2020. However, I trust that the parties will place the interests of the people of Wisconsin first and work together in good faith to quickly establish a rule that best addresses COVID-19 and its devastating effects on Wisconsin." (¶65, emphasis added)
This is, not to put too fine a point on it, really strange. She writes in the binding portion of her opinion "you got a pretty good stay, so you're fine." and then writing in a non-binding portion of the opinion "but if I had my way I'd give you 6 more days...")
So, yeah. There ya go. That's the official explanation for the stay situation I suppose.
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This is, not to put too fine a point on it, really strange. She writes in the binding portion of her opinion "you got a pretty good stay, so you're fine." and then writing in a non-binding portion of the opinion "but if I had my way I'd give you 6 more days...")
So, yeah. There ya go. That's the official explanation for the stay situation I suppose.
(http://www.pngmart.com/files/11/Facepalm-PNG-File.png)
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there is some fun, unintentional comedy in that opinion.
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I too hope that people who can't stand each other would come together and do something for the people they represent. But each sides heels are dug in as usual, so I am not holding my breath.
What we get is nothing because anything the Legislature passes Evers will throw in the garbage, and anything he asks for will be left out. So those who want no restrictions win out.
Slim. slim chance.
0% chance that Vos and Fitzgerald will agree to what Evers wants (wonder if Vos will be wearing his hazmat suit when he talks on the phone to the governor).
2% chance that Evers will agree on a Vos plan.
This is not about Covid. It is about taking power from Evers. As we all know, this is not the 1st time.
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Our favorite restaurant/watering hole posted in Facebook that they are going to take a couple of days to figure out a safe way to open before they actually do. This is in a town with fewer than 1200 people, with the only Covid-related death in the county occurring a month ago. I know I wish every place would employ the same level of caution.
And if they go to limited occupancy (which I expect), I also hope that they decide who to let in based on the number of times they have ordered carryout from them in the last 9 weeks.
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Kenosha County, closed. Walworth County, open.
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Kenosha County, closed. Walworth County, open.
Look at the map, it will likely be blue closed, red open. Then they'll start showing up at the hospitals in blue areas.
So they're blue problems no matter what.
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Look at the map, it will likely be blue closed, red open. Then they'll start showing up at the hospitals in blue areas.
So they're blue problems no matter what.
Eeyore's back, i see.
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Eeyore's back, i see.
REALITY IS BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS!
Or should I have have said, "Unnecessary"? Or, are you the only afforded that sort of judgement?
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REALITY IS BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS!
Or should I have have said, "Unnecessary"? Or, are you the only afforded that sort of judgement?
What is different about today, May 14 and May 26? Nothing.
You've gone full doom and gloom and it hasn't been 24 hours. Just stay safe in Dane Co and we'll all be fine.
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Took a drive today to get out of the house, and noticed there is now a COVID testing station on the former Bradley Center site.
I thought about getting one just to say I had a test in the same spot Novak beat ND from.
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What is different about today, May 14 and May 26? Nothing.
You've gone full doom and gloom and it hasn't been 24 hours. Just stay sage in Dane Co and we'll all be fine.
Time, obviously. I haven't gone full doom and gloom, I'm just sick of how predictable stupid people are. You know damn well that there aren't enough hospital beds in rural Wisconsin to deal with any sort of Covid outbreak. So where are they going to go? Blue counties. Where the hospitals are.
So while all of the stupids get to go out and go drinking with their friends, our hospital workers that have been pulling insane hours get to continue dealing with the ensuing mess. They're paying for these idiot's inability to understand that what they're doing is dangerous. And its fine, because if you call them heroes enough you can still spit in their faces by opening at this point in time.
I don't care if people go fishing, golf, or do whatever is reasonably safe. I'm not advocating for a continued total shut down, but opening up the flood gates like this is a recipe for disaster. I'm sorry if that is inconvenient to hear, but Christ, you guys sound and act like a bunch of spoiled teenagers.
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Time, obviously. I haven't gone full doom and gloom, I'm just sick of how predictable stupid people are. You know damn well that there aren't enough hospital beds in rural Wisconsin to deal with any sort of Covid outbreak. So where are they going to go? Blue counties. Where the hospitals are.
So while all of the stupids get to go out and go drinking with their friends, our hospital workers that have been pulling insane hours get to continue dealing with the ensuing mess. They're paying for these idiot's inability to understand that what they're doing is dangerous. And its fine, because if you call them heroes enough you can still spit in their faces by opening at this point in time.
I don't care if people go fishing, golf, or do whatever is reasonably safe. I'm not advocating for a continued total shut down, but opening up the flood gates like this is a recipe for disaster. I'm sorry if that is inconvenient to hear, but Christ, you guys sound and act like a bunch of spoiled teenagers.
I'd also say it would be significantly better if individuals wore appropriate masks and maintained distance. But they won't.
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I'd also say it would be significantly better if individuals wore appropriate masks and maintained distance. But they won't.
That's what I mean. Even drinks outside with people separated is fine. But indoor bars at full capacity? Simply a terrible idea.
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Slim. slim chance.
0% chance that Vos and Fitzgerald will agree to what Evers wants (wonder if Vos will be wearing his hazmat suit when he talks on the phone to the governor).
2% chance that Evers will agree on a Vos plan.
This is not about Covid. It is about taking power from Evers.
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I'm gonna disagree.
Evers' plan -- and most governors' plans -- are based on a theory of minimizing risk to "some level."
I hate to use the word "reasonable" .. but reasonable people can disagree with Evers' what "some level" is -- and it's obvious that as the days go on, we learn more, we tolerate more, we relax rules more.
I guarantee you, Evers has advisors who have debated more granular rules across geographic regions, which is (I think) the main adjustment the GOP side wants. -- And frankly, I think Evers is wrong to hold on to the one-size-fits-all rules.
Break the state into X regions and fine tune the regs. (Yes, I know, easier said than done, but nothing is easy.)
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Also, filed under #WildWest:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/wisconsin/2020/05/13/wisconsin-stay-home-order-not-over-dane-brown-counties-milwaukee-city-racine/5188700002/
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https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/hosp-data.htm
Here is a nice little bed tracker.
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I thought about getting one just to say I had a test in the same spot Novak beat ND from.
Will never forget that game or that night. There was a brutal storm in Chicago and my cable went out. Went to a bar last second with a friend. Of patrons paying attention to game, it was 75% Notre Dame fans.
Cannot believe I did not get my ass kicked after Novak hit that shot. As I recall, I was over the top.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/05/14/tony-evers-gop-lawmakers-meet-after-supreme-court-ruling-on-coronavirus-orders/5189390002/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/05/14/tony-evers-gop-lawmakers-meet-after-supreme-court-ruling-on-coronavirus-orders/5189390002/)
Man .. the ruling yesterday is such a hand grenade.
I mean, before people were (mostly) following one guideline from the state. Today each city and county can announce their own rule -- but apparently even those rules may be "illegal."
So the biggest catastrophe is that .. it's everyone for themselves now. Even if the legislature and Evers unified .. the toothpaste is out of the tube and a chunk of Wisconsinites are just going to do whatever because nothing is legitimate anymore.
Utter chaos. We have the governance we richly deserve. Job well done, everyone.
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Some of these wisco bars just absolutley packed hours after the ruling. These people are just jokes
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WI bars PACKED
https://www.yahoo.com/news/open-immediately-wisconsinites-head-bars-115226028.html
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WI bars PACKED
https://www.yahoo.com/news/open-immediately-wisconsinites-head-bars-115226028.html
"At Lenny's Tap, about a mile and a half away, four employees wearing masks served about 20 patrons who stopped by for a drink. Owner Marty Leonhard said the bar's beer distributor had already delivered two shipments by 8 p.m."
Hmmm...
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What could wrong w/ a nurse who treat COVID patients, immediately going out to bar???
https://www.tmj4.com/news/coronavirus/west-allis-bars-rush-to-reopen-after-stay-at-home-order-overturned
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I'm gonna disagree.
Evers' plan -- and most governors' plans -- are based on a theory of minimizing risk to "some level."
I hate to use the word "reasonable" .. but reasonable people can disagree with Evers' what "some level" is -- and it's obvious that as the days go on, we learn more, we tolerate more, we relax rules more.
I guarantee you, Evers has advisors who have debated more granular rules across geographic regions, which is (I think) the main adjustment the GOP side wants. -- And frankly, I think Evers is wrong to hold on to the one-size-fits-all rules.
Break the state into X regions and fine tune the regs. (Yes, I know, easier said than done, but nothing is easy.)
I hope you are right and I am wrong, Topper.
But with what Vos and Fitzgerald have already done to take away Evers powers even before his inauguration, I think this is just a continuation of those efforts. This battle is about way more than Covid.
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What could wrong w/ a nurse who treat COVID patients, immediately going out to bar???
https://www.tmj4.com/news/coronavirus/west-allis-bars-rush-to-reopen-after-stay-at-home-order-overturned
It just says she's a nurse, nothing about covid patients.
And the tavern league really runs the state.
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WI bars PACKED
https://www.yahoo.com/news/open-immediately-wisconsinites-head-bars-115226028.html
There may be some good news here. I have asked dozens of my Democratic friends if they would consider going out to newly opened bars or restaurants. Exactly zero people said yes. They also said that even in the foreseeable future, they will not associate with people that do.
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“I have a toddler at home and I’m a full-time nurse so it’s been very stressful and hard to not be able to go out and be with my friends and family at the bars,” Koutski said.
The oppression!
We have a really unhealthy relationship with alcohol in this state.
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There may be some good news here. I have asked dozens of my Democratic friends if they would consider going out to newly opened bars or restaurants. Exactly zero people said yes. They also said that even in the foreseeable future, they will not associate with people that do.
What did your Republican friends say? Or do you have any? Lol.
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I'm getting confused on our rules, and what are overburdensome restrictions on peoples lives.
Requiring someone to wear a mask to stop the spread of a deadly virus: OVERLY Burdensome and a violation of our rights.
Drinking a beer at the age of 18: Too dangerous to allow for the safety of the nation. Violators will be prosecuted.
Shutting down bars, to stop the spread of a deadly virus during a pandemic: OVERLY Burdensome and a violation of our rights.
Smoking a joint in the privacy of your own home: Too dangerous to allow for the safety of the nation. Violators will be prosecuted, and their ability to get financial aid, a job, etc., ruined.
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What did your Republican friends say? Or do you have any? Lol.
Did someone check the hipster coffee shops?
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Not a lot of masks or distancing in those pictures.
Want to know why the government has to get involved in shut downs/quarantines vs letting individuals decide?
This. This is why.
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Anecdotal evidence .. we often go up north to a cabin .. the tavern on the lake has a Facebook page which announced the stay-at-home order was overturned and the bar would be open at 7pm.
That is crap, real bars opened at 7AM
The Press Box
We are open tomorrow (Thursday) and ready for you starting 7am!! Then it’s DOUBLE BUBBLE 3:30-5:30. Friday night it’s DUB BUB till 7pm, then at 8 $10 BEER BUFFET starts as well as LADIES NIGHT $15 AYCD
https://www.facebook.com/thepressboxfdl/posts/3160803243953056 (https://www.facebook.com/thepressboxfdl/posts/3160803243953056)
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Kenosha County, closed. Walworth County, open.
Lake Geneva and Lake Delevan?
Mostly Illinois people, anyway.
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It just says she's a nurse, nothing about covid patients.
And the tavern league really runs the state.
I ain't the doxxing type of person, but her public F'Book profile says she does...
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I ain't the doxxing type of person, but her public F'Book profile says she does...
Pretty sure some folks are the doxxing type and she's starting to feel the pinch. Some of her socials are going dark.
Something about playing games of suspect intelligence and winning prizes of suspect intelligence? I swear there's a nicer saying about that.
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Pretty sure some folks are the doxxing type and she's starting to feel the pinch. Some of her socials are going dark.
Something about playing games of suspect intelligence and winning prizes of suspect intelligence? I swear there's a nicer saying about that.
Can you doxx yourself when you willingly give your name and profession to a news reporter?
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Not a lot of masks or distancing in those pictures.
Have you ever tried to drink beer through an N95? All foam bro! Not good at all.
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I don’t feel comfortable going about the past normal way of life yet. I’m going to continue to shelter in place regardless of WI opening back up.
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The idea of forcing the whole state into one policy was tantamount to shoving a square peg into a circle hole, it just wasn't reasonable given the relative density differences between parts of the state. Other states, namely Illinois, divided the state up into multiple regions that in my opinion seem more practical for people to grasp and doesn't hold the state hostage to just one metro area turning into a hot zone.
What I'm more concerned with is what does this do for managing the second wave next winter which will piggyback on our regular flu season? I have little faith in the legislature and the governor working together, much less around an election year that involves Trump.
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The idea of forcing the whole state into one policy was tantamount to shoving a square peg into a circle hole, it just wasn't reasonable given the relative density differences between parts of the state. Other states, namely Illinois, divided the state up into multiple regions that in my opinion seem more practical for people to grasp and doesn't hold the state hostage to just one metro area turning into a hot zone.
What I'm more concerned with is what does this do for managing the second wave next winter which will piggyback on our regular flu season? I have little faith in the legislature and the governor working together, much less around an election year that involves Trump.
This is why a nationwide policy of shutting down that some wanted is lacking creativity and thoughtfulness.
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This is why a nationwide policy of shutting down that some wanted is lacking creativity and thoughtfulness.
need some policies in place for the places that are open.
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This is why a nationwide policy of shutting down that some wanted is lacking creativity and thoughtfulness.
That’s what happens when the federal government is run by a conman
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I hope you are right and I am wrong, Topper.
But with what Vos and Fitzgerald have already done to take away Evers powers even before his inauguration, I think this is just a continuation of those efforts. This battle is about way more than Covid.
It sure is hell is, International. You can bet your tidy whities it has been since day one, aina?
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That’s what happens when the federal government is run by a conman
A nationwide shutdown was not possible because of our system, despite what the conman wanted to initially do he was not constitutionally allowed to. The list of people supporting such a shut down, on both sides, was long anyway.
The Federal Gov't includes three branches. Throw in the state govt's, the city and county govt's, and there are con men and women as far as the eye can see.
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Tavern league is a joke. Needs to go away
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A nationwide shutdown was not possible because of our system, despite what the conman wanted to initially do he was not constitutionally allowed to. The list of people supporting such a shut down, on both sides, was long anyway.
The Federal Gov't includes three branches. Throw in the state govt's, the city and county govt's, and there are con men and women as far as the eye can see.
It was magically going to disappear. Abject failure by the executive branch. Will go down in history as the greatest failure by a president ever. But he fights
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Tavern league is a joke. Needs to go away
As someone intimately involved, I agree 100%
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As someone intimately involved, I agree 100%
Just pisses me off. They directly negatively effect drunk driving and feel no shame about it.
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It was magically going to disappear. Abject failure by the executive branch. Will go down in history as the greatest failure by a president ever. But he fights
Considering who writes history, you are correct. Should that be the case? I haven't been entirely impressed by local and state leadership either. Cuomo was a saint two weeks ago and Desantis the idiot, how things change and can change back again. This whole thing has not been a very good look in how gov't helps or solves problems for the people on any level, by any party or any ideology.
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Time, obviously. I haven't gone full doom and gloom, I'm just sick of how predictable stupid people are. You know damn well that there aren't enough hospital beds in rural Wisconsin to deal with any sort of Covid outbreak. So where are they going to go? Blue counties. Where the hospitals are.
So while all of the stupids get to go out and go drinking with their friends, our hospital workers that have been pulling insane hours get to continue dealing with the ensuing mess. They're paying for these idiot's inability to understand that what they're doing is dangerous. And its fine, because if you call them heroes enough you can still spit in their faces by opening at this point in time.
I don't care if people go fishing, golf, or do whatever is reasonably safe. I'm not advocating for a continued total shut down, but opening up the flood gates like this is a recipe for disaster. I'm sorry if that is inconvenient to hear, but Christ, you guys sound and act like a bunch of spoiled teenagers.
Hospital workers pulling insane hours? NYC sure, I can’t think of one hospital I’ve spoken with in the entire state that was been forced to work insane hours. Quite the opposite actually. They’ve had furloughs and pay cuts everywhere.
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Considering who writes history, you are correct. Should that be the case? I haven't been entirely impressed by local and state leadership either. Cuomo was a saint two weeks ago and Desantis the idiot, how things change and can change back again. This whole thing has not been a very good look in how gov't helps or solves problems for the people on any level, by any party or any ideology.
I’d love to see “History According to Cheeks.” That’d be an interesting read.
Trump wrote his own history.
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Time, obviously. I haven't gone full doom and gloom, I'm just sick of how predictable stupid people are. You know damn well that there aren't enough hospital beds in rural Wisconsin to deal with any sort of Covid outbreak. So where are they going to go? Blue counties. Where the hospitals are.
So while all of the stupids get to go out and go drinking with their friends, our hospital workers that have been pulling insane hours get to continue dealing with the ensuing mess. They're paying for these idiot's inability to understand that what they're doing is dangerous. And its fine, because if you call them heroes enough you can still spit in their faces by opening at this point in time.
I don't care if people go fishing, golf, or do whatever is reasonably safe. I'm not advocating for a continued total shut down, but opening up the flood gates like this is a recipe for disaster. I'm sorry if that is inconvenient to hear, but Christ, you guys sound and act like a bunch of spoiled teenagers.
And if a couple weeks of time will make this all of a sudden more tolerable why wouldn’t we stay locked down even longer then the 26th to make it even better? Is Evers putting the economy in front of human lives by not locking down til there’s a readily available vaccine?
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And if a couple weeks of time will make this all of a sudden more tolerable why wouldn’t we stay locked down even longer then the 26th to make it even better? Is Evers putting the economy in front of human lives by not locking down til there’s a readily available vaccine?
Evers is trying to reach the goals the president set for reopening our country. And now our president is Tweeting about how great this is for Wisconsin when we did not reach the goals he set.
Great leadership!
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https://wbbm780.radio.com/articles/suburban-nurse-seen-maskless-in-wisconsin-bar
The nurse’s employer wants to have a conversation with her.....
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https://wbbm780.radio.com/articles/suburban-nurse-seen-maskless-in-wisconsin-bar
The nurse’s employer wants to have a conversation with her.....
.........?
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Kenosha County back open
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It was magically going to disappear. Abject failure by the executive branch. Will go down in history as the greatest failure by a president ever. But he fights
To me, it looks like he has moved on. He now only repeats over and over that he has done a great job - the best job any president ever has done facing any crisis - and we have won. The fight against the coronavirus is over.
He is now in full-scale "Obamagate" mode. And getting his criminal cohorts out of prison. And vindictively attacking anybody who ever crossed him. And opening up the country haphazardly even though his own guidelines aren't being met and even though tens of thousands more will die needlessly. These next 8 months could be very costly to our great democratic republic.
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Evers is trying to reach the goals the president set for reopening our country. And now our president is Tweeting about how great this is for Wisconsin when we did not reach the goals he set.
Great leadership!
We have reached the goals the task force put in place. There is one additional metric the badger bounce back plan has though (decrease in influenza like illnesses) that we haven’t hit yet. The federal benchmarks have been hit for awhile.
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We have reached the goals the task force put in place. There is one additional metric the badger bounce back plan has though (decrease in influenza like illnesses) that we haven’t hit yet. The federal benchmarks have been hit for awhile.
You are joking right?
This plan, laid last month? The benchmarks of this plan have been hit for awhile?
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2020/04/16/WHReopeningDoc.pdf
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You are joking right?
This plan, laid last month? The benchmarks of this plan have been hit for awhile?
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2020/04/16/WHReopeningDoc.pdf
Yes, that plan. I didn’t realize in that 14 page plan you just sent they had influenza like illnesses included so I guess it’s not an additional element to badger bounce back but everything else has been hit.
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Hospital workers pulling insane hours? NYC sure, I can’t think of one hospital I’ve spoken with in the entire state that was been forced to work insane hours. Quite the opposite actually. They’ve had furloughs and pay cuts everywhere.
Okay, so if I take out the word insane and replace it with stressful or extraordinary would you feel better? Does it change that the people flooding bars don't actually believe the hero worship that they profess? When the hospitals are loaded up with covid patients in a couple of weeks and the nurses and doctors are staring death in the face for 'drinks with the bros!' is that okay with you? The reason the numbers are low is because we're doing the right thing. And now that we've had success with that, we're just going to throw it in the bin because Karen needs her hair dyed? Nice to see how little human life means to a lot of people.
Well, unless they're fetuses.
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Yes, that plan. I didn’t realize in that 14 page plan you just sent they had influenza like illnesses included so I guess it’s not an additional element to badger bounce back but everything else has been hit.
Everything has been hit to get us to Phase 1. Which is why the state was lifting orders slowly before May 26.
Look I don’t mind if it was decided that we enter Phase 1 today instead of 10 days from now. But it is insane that we have this county by county approach. The court effed up by not issuing a stay. Big time.
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I also don't disagree with a regional based approach a la Illinois. But that's not what Wisconsin is doing now. We have counties in the same metropolitan area with completely different standards in place.
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Okay, so if I take out the word insane and replace it with stressful or extraordinary would you feel better? Does it change that the people flooding bars don't actually believe the hero worship that they profess? When the hospitals are loaded up with covid patients in a couple of weeks and the nurses and doctors are staring death in the face for 'drinks with the bros!' is that okay with you? The reason the numbers are low is because we're doing the right thing. And now that we've had success with that, we're just going to throw it in the bin because Karen needs her hair dyed? Nice to see how little human life means to a lot of people.
Well, unless they're fetuses.
You act like the avg day for an ER/ICU nurse is spent giving flu shots and that not until Covid have these people had to deal with trauma and death.
From what I’ve been told the unknown and panic of the first few weeks was stressful and a handful were busy but far from overwhelmed. Those feelings of anxiousness have been gone for the better part of 5-6 weeks and have been replaced by fear of losing their job and borderline boredom.
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You act like the avg day for an ER/ICU nurse is spent giving flu shots and that not until Covid have these people had to deal with trauma and death.
From what I’ve been told the unknown and panic of the first few weeks was stressful and a handful were busy but far from overwhelmed. Those feelings of anxiousness have been gone for the better part of 5-6 weeks and have been replaced by fear of losing their job and borderline boredom.
Any metro area ICU and any given day has about 20-25% of their patients in attic isolation protocol because of some dangerous infectious disease. Covid is just the latest.
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You act like the avg day for an ER/ICU nurse is spent giving flu shots and that not until Covid have these people had to deal with trauma and death.
From what I’ve been told the unknown and panic of the first few weeks was stressful and a handful were busy but far from overwhelmed. Those feelings of anxiousness have been gone for the better part of 5-6 weeks and have been replaced by fear of losing their job and borderline boredom.
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Why the eye roll? I don’t get why you can’t acknowledge that the public has done their part to flatten the curve and whether or not you think it’s time to open back up you should be able to look at the last couple weeks through an objective lens and acknowledge things are pretty well under control. If anything it’s a tip of the cap to Evers but you’re so obsessed with criticizing the federal gov’t response you refuse to acknowledge any level of success anywhere. Classic case of DTS
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Everything has been hit to get us to Phase 1. Which is why the state was lifting orders slowly before May 26.
Look I don’t mind if it was decided that we enter Phase 1 today instead of 10 days from now. But it is insane that we have this county by county approach. The court effed up by not issuing a stay. Big time.
The legislature is who effed up. Get together and come up with a plan that is enforceable. If the will of the Wisconsin voters (through their representatives) is that Evers plan should be ratified, then they should do it. Or not do it. But the power to make laws doesn't reside with the executive.
The same holds true in Illinois. Illinois law restricts the governor's emergency powers to 30 days. He doesn't have the authority to continue it without the legislature. That's why the Illinois representative's suit against Pritzker was successful.
Evers' and Pritzker's executive orders could be the most sound orders ever. But just because they each have a pen and a phone, doesn't give them authority to make law in the absence of the legislature acting. Let the legislature make their executive orders law and then the executive can enforce the law.
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The legislature is who effed up. Get together and come up with a plan that is enforceable. If the will of the Wisconsin voters (through their representatives) is that Evers plan should be ratified, then they should do it. Or not do it. But the power to make laws doesn't reside with the executive.
The same holds true in Illinois. Illinois law restricts the governor's emergency powers to 30 days. He doesn't have the authority to continue it without the legislature. That's why the Illinois representative's suit against Pritzker was successful.
Evers' and Pritzker's executive orders could be the most sound orders ever. But just because they each have a pen and a phone, doesn't give them authority to make law in the absence of the legislature acting. Let the legislature make their executive orders law and then the executive can enforce the law.
I don't disagree and said earlier in the thread that the Court made a choice between two conflicting laws. The problem I have was the not issueing the stay, which would have given the executive and legislature time to sort things out. A stay that both parties requested. The result has been problematic. It's going to be hard to put the genie back in the bottle again, and I fear the result will be a patchwork of ineffective policies.
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Why the eye roll? I don’t get why you can’t acknowledge that the public has done their part to flatten the curve and whether or not you think it’s time to open back up you should be able to look at the last couple weeks through an objective lens and acknowledge things are pretty well under control. If anything it’s a tip of the cap to Evers but you’re so obsessed with criticizing the federal gov’t response you refuse to acknowledge any level of success anywhere. Classic case of DTS
The eye roll is because you're failing to acknowledge that most of Wisconsin just went back to 3/17 like nothing has happened. This virus feeds on stupid people making even stupider decisions. And you're failing to acknowledge that there is NO PLAN in most of this state! Instead of making plans and coming up with protocols we have wasted two god damned months and now that the curve is flattened we just go back in time two months and expect that cases won't explode? Absolute, abject stupidity. And who pays for this stupidity? The at-risk population and health care workers. And for what? A Old Fashioned and Fish Fry.
Additionally, if you'd read any of my responses, I have not advocated for a total shut down until we have a vaccine. That's you or others like you putting words in people's mouths. I've said we need to have a slow reasonable opening. Not an on/off switch that we currently have. I have no idea what DTS is either.
What happens in two weeks when this is back out of control and the population has no choice but to go back to shelter in place for another couple of weeks?
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The eye roll is because you're failing to acknowledge that most of Wisconsin just went back to 3/17 like nothing has happened. This virus feeds on stupid people making even stupider decisions. And you're failing to acknowledge that there is NO PLAN in most of this state! Instead of making plans and coming up with protocols we have wasted two god damned months and now that the curve is flattened we just go back in time two months and expect that cases won't explode? Absolute, abject stupidity. And who pays for this stupidity? The at-risk population and health care workers. And for what? A Old Fashioned and Fish Fry.
Additionally, if you'd read any of my responses, I have not advocated for a total shut down until we have a vaccine. That's you or others like you putting words in people's mouths. I've said we need to have a slow reasonable opening. Not an on/off switch that we currently have. I have no idea what DTS is either.
What happens in two weeks when this is back out of control and the population has no choice but to go back to shelter in place for another couple of weeks?
And what happens if that explosion of cases doesn’t happen? Will you admit you’re wrong and apologize? We were told by holding the election we’d see an explosion. Told Georgia would see an explosion after they opened, and Florida, and Texas so on and so on. None of those dire predictions have held true. Let’s hope we see similar results here.
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I don't disagree and said earlier in the thread that the Court made a choice between two conflicting laws. The problem I have was the not issueing the stay, which would have given the executive and legislature time to sort things out. A stay that both parties requested. The result has been problematic. It's going to be hard to put the genie back in the bottle again, and I fear the result will be a patchwork of ineffective policies.
I don't disagree that it's going to be hard to put the genie back. The issue though is that it's not the Supreme Court's role to do that. People (not implying you specifically) who think that the Court should fix everything don't understand what the Court's role is. It's to interpret the laws in the cases that come before it, not to make law (though deciding between two conflicting laws often does that). If the Court strikes an executive order down, it doesn't always mean that the substance of the executive order was bad. It's just that the legislature needs to get off their collective dead asses and get it figured out because it's the role of the legislature to enact laws.
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And what happens if that explosion of cases doesn’t happen? Will you admit you’re wrong and apologize? We were told by holding the election we’d see an explosion. Told Georgia would see an explosion after they opened, and Florida, and Texas so on and so on. None of those dire predictions have held true. Let’s hope we see similar results here.
For one, in several of those states we haven't had enough time to see if there is an explosion yet.
Second, making statements are recommending policies based on firm science is what people should do.
The governors, and presidents, essentially saying open up anything are not following any science, they are simply gambling on hope that it doesn't get bad.
Even if wrong, the people following firm science are doing the right thing, and should never apologize.
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I don't disagree that it's going to be hard to put the genie back. The issue though is that it's not the Supreme Court's role to do that. People (not implying you specifically) who think that the Court should fix everything don't understand what the Court's role is. It's to interpret the laws in the cases that come before it, not to make law (though deciding between two conflicting laws often does that). If the Court strikes an executive order down, it doesn't always mean that the substance of the executive order was bad. It's just that the legislature needs to get off their collective dead asses and get it figured out because it's the role of the legislature to enact laws.
I understand all of that, but Courts routinely issue stays so that parties can sort out the results of their rulings in an orderly fashion. Especially when it is requested by both parties.
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Okay, so if I take out the word insane and replace it with stressful or extraordinary would you feel better? Does it change that the people flooding bars don't actually believe the hero worship that they profess? When the hospitals are loaded up with covid patients in a couple of weeks and the nurses and doctors are staring death in the face for 'drinks with the bros!' is that okay with you?
The overwhelming majority of establishments in the hardest hit areas remained closed. The populous was not flooding bars. And the small amount of people that went out face certain death, right?
I don't endorse reopening without a plan, and sure as hell wouldn't go out yet. But that level of rhetoric doesn't help anything.
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For one, in several of those states we haven't had enough time to see if there is an explosion yet.
Second, making statements are recommending policies based on firm science is what people should do.
The governors, and presidents, essentially saying open up anything are not following any science, they are simply gambling on hope that it doesn't get bad.
Even if wrong, the people following firm science are doing the right thing, and should never apologize.
The majority of the states I mentioned have been open for almost 3 weeks. How long do we have to wait?
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The majority of the states I mentioned have been open for almost 3 weeks. How long do we have to wait?
Pace personally I think people are being more cautious and are spending their time outside vs. indoors like earlier this year. But if you want a timeline I would loosely follow NYC. Since it was the euro strain that is prevalent, lets assume it started in late jan and wasnt a raging problem until early March (~5-6 wks). Thats with a lot of density. So that is what I would watch.
Again though, we are in a different place. If people are feeling sick they are more likely to take themself out of circulation and there are some that are being more cautious. So maybe we can strike a better balance as no one thinks 'shut-down' completely is sustainable.
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The overwhelming majority of establishments in the hardest hit areas remained closed. The populous was not flooding bars. And the small amount of people that went out face certain death, right?
I don't endorse reopening without a plan, and sure as hell wouldn't go out yet. But that level of rhetoric doesn't help anything.
First off, you're adding a lot to what I said. I didn't say the people are the bars face certain death. Obviously, they don't.
There were people at bars the moment that the ban was lifted, and it wasn't even the weekend. The hardest hit areas are going to have people who are asymptomatic mingling openly at bars and restaurants all over the open counties of Wisconsin. That's how we're going to see spread. Going to be a beautiful weekend weather wise. People will be putting their boats in the water, and then hitting up the local watering holes.
And this is precisely the problem. We need a plan. If the establishments that are open are only allowed to serve outside that's helpful. But I think we both know what a typical day/night at a bar in Wisconsin on a gorgeous weekend looks like.
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The majority of the states I mentioned have been open for almost 3 weeks. How long do we have to wait?
Well the incubation period is up to 14 days. So typically, they are not having serious symptoms until 14 days in. Add in delays in testing and delays in getting results.
So at 3 weeks, we would be seeing the first of those that were newly infected emerge. That would be the first cycle in any exponential growth.
Now separate from that, following "reopening," a lot of people are reluctant to stop quarantining, and a lot of businesses are not opening, but rather waiting a couple weeks to see what happens. That further pushes out the growth in R0. So anything that would be observed would likely be at least 6 weeks out.
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And what happens if that explosion of cases doesn’t happen? Will you admit you’re wrong and apologize? We were told by holding the election we’d see an explosion. Told Georgia would see an explosion after they opened, and Florida, and Texas so on and so on. None of those dire predictions have held true. Let’s hope we see similar results here.
Not sure about an explosion, but cases have risen steadily in Florida and Georgia since they've eased restrictions.
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/curve-in-context-heres-what-florida-georgia-covid-19-case-curve-looks-like-as-of-may-14/77-af0dec59-c6ed-478d-8b6b-606c27ab6371
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Well the incubation period is up to 14 days. So typically, they are not having serious symptoms until 14 days in. Add in delays in testing and delays in getting results.
So at 3 weeks, we would be seeing the first of those that were newly infected emerge. That would be the first cycle in any exponential growth.
Now separate from that, following "reopening," a lot of people are reluctant to stop quarantining, and a lot of businesses are not opening, but rather waiting a couple weeks to see what happens. That further pushes out the growth in R0. So anything that would be observed would likely be at least 6 weeks out.
I thought average was closer to 5-7 days when people start seeing symptoms. It%u2019s possible up to 14, but most experience sooner than that.
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Not sure about an explosion, but cases have risen steadily in Florida and Georgia since they've eased restrictions.
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/curve-in-context-heres-what-florida-georgia-covid-19-case-curve-looks-like-as-of-may-14/77-af0dec59-c6ed-478d-8b6b-606c27ab6371
Not to mention that Wednesday was the highest number of new cases reported in Texas since the beginning. Obviously, new cases go up when we test more. But I think the real question is why are we opening without quick testing and full contact tracing? Because life is hard?
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Not to mention that Wednesday was the highest number of new cases reported in Texas since the beginning. Obviously, new cases go up when we test more. But I think the real question is why are we opening without quick testing and full contact tracing? Because life is hard?
No we're opening without those things because of the simple reality of who bears the costs of both options.
Stay closed and we all bear the costs of economic pain.
Reopen and someone else bears the risk of infection. Someone older, someone sicker, someone *else*.
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Not sure about an explosion, but cases have risen steadily in Florida and Georgia since they've eased restrictions.
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/curve-in-context-heres-what-florida-georgia-covid-19-case-curve-looks-like-as-of-may-14/77-af0dec59-c6ed-478d-8b6b-606c27ab6371
As testing gets drastically increased I think the % positive gives a better snap shot of how deeply engrained the virus is in a community. To expect the raw number of positive tests to go down when testing is severely ramped up is a tough ask for any state.
Intend to dig in and look at hospitalization rate, vent usage, etc. if you have a bunch of people testing positive that have minor to no symptoms that can be misleading to the pressure that is actually being put on local health systems.
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No we're opening without those things because of the simple reality of who bears the costs of both options.
Stay closed and we all bear the costs of economic pain.
Reopen and someone else bears the risk of infection. Someone older, someone sicker, someone *else*.
Because that wasn’t what was asked of us when everything was shut down. Once we are able to check your two new boxes there will be something else that needs to be accomplished before we can “safely” open.
Goal posts have shifted so many times there seems to be no end in sight for what some demand before lifting restrictions.
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As testing gets drastically increased I think the % positive gives a better snap shot of how deeply engrained the virus is in a community. To expect the raw number of positive tests to go down when testing is severely ramped up is a tough ask for any state.
Intend to dig in and look at hospitalization rate, vent usage, etc. if you have a bunch of people testing positive that have minor to no symptoms that can be misleading to the pressure that is actually being put on local health systems.
Personally, I think the most important number isn't the total number of cases, its the number of severe cases, beds available to treat those cases, and then anticipated severe cases within the next month.
If severe cases plus anticipated severe cases > beds available then we have problems. If you flip that > to a < then we are in decent shape. Deaths will happen, and cases will happen, but we want to be able to effectively treat the severe cases to limit death.
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Pace personally I think people are being more cautious and are spending their time outside vs. indoors like earlier this year. But if you want a timeline I would loosely follow NYC. Since it was the euro strain that is prevalent, lets assume it started in late jan and wasnt a raging problem until early March (~5-6 wks). Thats with a lot of density. So that is what I would watch.
Again though, we are in a different place. If people are feeling sick they are more likely to take themself out of circulation and there are some that are being more cautious. So maybe we can strike a better balance as no one thinks 'shut-down' completely is sustainable.
While yes the Euro strain is the prevalent strain both here and in NYC, I think drawing any comparison to NYC is useless. NYC's density is what got NYC into trouble in the first place. 10 of the top 11 densest areas in the United States are in NYC and they all coincide with the hardest hit areas of covid. Mix that with incompetent local leadership from Cuomo and DeBlasio like sticking recovering covid patients back into nursing homes and waiting until May to actually clean the subway and that's how NYC became the epicenter of this in the USA. The media blasted governors like Kemp and DeSantis for their premature openings, yet have skated on Cuomo and that is unfortunate because Cuomo's decisions exacerbated an already huge problem. Wisconsin, even in Milwaukee, does not have those problems so any chance of repeating what happened in NYC here is highly unlikely, especially at the present time. Now who knows what this looks like in the fall/winter when we have to deal with the flu as well, but in many ways, I would argue that Wisconsin is a success story for virus mitigation thanks to leadership of Gov Evers and Wisconsinites taking personal responsibility.
As an aside, we now over 500k Wisconsinites are out of work and it is paramount we start getting people back to work asap. Stimulus money and PPP will begin to phase out next month with unemployment the following month. The clock is ticking. I've seen a couple mentions that 90% of those who are furloughed think their job will come back while several economists think only 60% will. If that's true, that means 200kish Wisconsinites are out of work after this is over because their jobs are permanently gone. We have to be more nuanced and work the problem rather than sitting in our political camps yelling "end the tyranny" or "you idiots are all gonna die if you go out".
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As testing gets drastically increased I think the % positive gives a better snap shot of how deeply engrained the virus is in a community. To expect the raw number of positive tests to go down when testing is severely ramped up is a tough ask for any state.
Has testing in Florida and Georgia severely ramped up since they eased restrictions?
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Personally, I think the most important number isn't the total number of cases, its the number of severe cases, beds available to treat those cases, and then anticipated severe cases within the next month.
If severe cases plus anticipated severe cases > beds available then we have problems. If you flip that > to a < then we are in decent shape.
And where is that data found? Is it available anywhere? Is there a reason to assume that it is ">" and not "<"?
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Warrior - I’m not sure your comments are tied to mine even though you quoted me. I was just saying that 5-6 weeks of time is a reasonable time period to judge looser restrictions.
The euro piece was just dating the starting point and nothing more.
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Personally, I think the most important number isn't the total number of cases, its the number of severe cases, beds available to treat those cases, and then anticipated severe cases within the next month.
If severe cases plus anticipated severe cases > beds available then we have problems. If you flip that > to a < then we are in decent shape. Deaths will happen, and cases will happen, but we want to be able to effectively treat the severe cases to limit death.
https://www.wha.org/Covid-19Update
Bunch of great data here....hospitals are sitting about 60-70% empty. And over 95% of hospitals reported to Evers they could handle a local outbreak without having to implement emergency protocols.
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Has testing in Florida and Georgia severely ramped up since they eased restrictions?
Yup. The % of positive cases in both states has almost been cut in half and the actual number of positive people has generally remained the same. I would guess without tracking down the actual numbers they’ve doubled their testing.
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And where is that data found? Is it available anywhere? Is there a reason to assume that it is ">" and not "<"?
I posted a link a few pages back with Wisconsin's data regarding that... except anticipated cases. I'm not sure how one would calculate that, but I would imagine that someone has done that work.
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https://www.wha.org/Covid-19Update
Bunch of great data here....hospitals are sitting about 60-70% empty. And over 95% of hospitals reported to Evers they could handle a local outbreak without having to implement emergency protocols.
Not sure you can do much about trying to guesstimate future severe cases but obviously plenty of beds and resources available in case positive tests go up after reopening.
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Not sure you can do
much about trying to guesstimate future severe cases but obviously plenty of beds and resources available in case positive tests go up after reopening.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/hosp-data.htm
This was the link I was referring to. Breaks it down to beds available by region. Also, your 60-70% number is at odds with their data.
edit: Just checked into a bit more, and it looks like the link I posted is about a week out of date... so don't use it. ;D
edit2: wait, nope, it's fine to use.
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I thought average was closer to 5-7 days when people start seeing symptoms. It%u2019s possible up to 14, but most experience sooner than that.
Per the CDC website:
Incubation period
The incubation period for COVID-19 is thought to extend to 14 days, with a median time of 4-5 days from exposure to symptoms onset.1-3 One study reported that 97.5% of persons with COVID-19 who develop symptoms will do so within 11.5 days of SARS-CoV-2 infection.3
So best case timeline from infection to showing up in the data is 5 days + 5 days of self treatment + 3 days for test results (13 days)
Worst case timelines is going to be 14 days + 7 days of self treatment + 3 days for test results (24 days)
Median is going to be something like 7 days + 6 days of self treatment + 3 days for test results (16 days)
*Note this assumes the standard path of going to a hospital for results as testing broaden the lag time lowers
Bottom line, hospitalizations and test results lag by roughly 14-16 days....so three weeks is enough time that we should have seen see indications of a significant ground swell of cases.
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Per the CDC website:
Incubation period
The incubation period for COVID-19 is thought to extend to 14 days, with a median time of 4-5 days from exposure to symptoms onset.1-3 One study reported that 97.5% of persons with COVID-19 who develop symptoms will do so within 11.5 days of SARS-CoV-2 infection.3
So best case timeline from infection to showing up in the data is 5 days + 5 days of self treatment + 3 days for test results (13 days)
Worst case timelines is going to be 14 days + 7 days of self treatment + 3 days for test results (24 days)
Median is going to be something like 7 days + 6 days of self treatment + 3 days for test results (16 days)
*Note this assumes the standard path of going to a hospital for results as testing broaden the lag time lowers
Bottom line, hospitalizations and test results lag by roughly 14-16 days....so three weeks is enough time that we should have seen see indications of a significant ground swell of cases.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't those states open back up on the 1st? If so, we should see whether or not we're good in the next couple of days.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't those states open back up on the 1st? If so, we should see whether or not we're good in the next couple of days.
I was referring to the 3 weeks of data for Wisconsin. I haven't been paying attention to other states but yes if they opened on the 1st and if there is going to be significant spread I would anticipate we'd see a statistically significant in crease in positive tests Wednesday next week followed by a statistically relevant increase in hospitalfixations by the following Wednesday.
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Side note, one of the biggest failures on the data side is the data isn't indexed to date of accordance, its date reporting. This is introduces a lot of noise and gamesmanship with the data, especially deaths.
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I was referring to the 3 weeks of data for Wisconsin. I haven't been paying attention to other states but yes if they opened on the 1st and if there is going to be significant spread I would anticipate we'd see a statistically significant in crease in positive tests Wednesday next week followed by a statistically relevant increase in hospitalfixations by the following Wednesday.
On May 1, Texas lifted restrictions. On May 14, Texas has their highest single day increase in deaths since this started. Numbers of tests do not affect this stat.
On May 14, Texas also had their biggest single day increase in new cases. We can't use a direct cause and effect for cases since more tests are being run now than in the past.
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On May 1, Texas lifted restrictions. On May 14, Texas has their highest single day increase in deaths since this started. Numbers of tests do not affect this stat.
On May 14, Texas also had their biggest single day increase in new cases. We can't use a direct cause and effect for cases since more tests are being run now than in the past.
Death data, especially a single point, is a horrible metric. By all accounts deaths are occurring at least a month after first infection so the single day death rates wouldn't be reflected of "opening up" until at least the end of May. Further the deaths reported today all happened at least a day or two ago, if not longer depending on autopsies, reporting infrastructure, etc.
Positive test rate would be the earliest indicator of an issue because it accounts for increased testing, anything else is just fearmongering quite frankly
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Positive test rate would be the earliest indicator of an issue because it accounts for increased testing, anything else is just fearmongering quite frankly
Not necessarily. Just weeks ago, most tests administered were to sick patients. The population as a whole was getting very few tests. So even if the positive rate is lower, it could well indicate that more people are getting sick. We just don't know yet. It will take at least several more weeks of data.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't those states open back up on the 1st? If so, we should see whether or not we're good in the next couple of days.
We would already see a jump. The 14 days is the max and safety reg, not the norm. A majority of cases present within 4 days
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Death data, especially a single point, is a horrible metric. By all accounts deaths are occurring at least a month after first infection so the single day death rates wouldn't be reflected of "opening up" until at least the end of May. Further the deaths reported today all happened at least a day or two ago, if not longer depending on autopsies, reporting infrastructure, etc.
Positive test rate would be the earliest indicator of an issue because it accounts for increased testing, anything else is just fearmongering quite frankly
Positive test rate would be the earliest indicator if we had widespread testing. That is an important factor. I agree with you on the death data to some degree. The people getting sick don't get a positive test and drop dead the next day. Some do, but others drag on very sick for weeks in addition to the other reasons you listed.
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We would already see a jump. The 14 days is the max and safety reg, not the norm. A majority of cases present within 4 days
I mean, the post right before mine refutes this... from the CDC.
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Various counties are now recinding their safter at home orders because they don't believe they will hold up in court. Legislature, governor, supreme court....stick them all in a rocket and shoot them to the moon.
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Some are just willing to completely fook up the economy and everything else to oust the president. Whatever it takes, aina?
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Some are just willing to completely fook up the economy and everything else to oust the president. Whatever it takes, aina?
He fooked it up just fine without any help.
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Some are just willing to completely fook up the economy and everything else to oust the president. Whatever it takes, aina?
Counterpoint: The president was handed a golden opportunity to lead the country through a crisis and come out looking like a hero locked in on a second term.
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Yup. An opportunity for greatness. Missed.
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Some are just willing to completely fook up the economy and everything else to oust the president. Whatever it takes, aina?
Nothing to do with the Prez, just trying to save some old folks, aina?
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Some are just willing to completely fook up the economy and everything else to oust the president. Whatever it takes, aina?
It’s a vast conspiracy by the left wing media and their partners in Asia, Europe, South America and whatever other countries that have had shutdowns. It’s impressive in its scope. Kudos to the conspirators in getting some republican governors onboard
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Counterpoint: The president was handed a golden opportunity to lead the country through a crisis and come out looking like a hero locked in on a second term.
Exactly. He had the same oppurtunity that governors had.
The ones who were proactive all have 60%-80% approval ratings. They ALL were honest and empathetic. Very simple. That is all it takes.
Trump lied and refused to acknowledge suffering. He used the virus as an excuse to attack all those that he is paranoid about. He, and only he is responsible for people's opinions on the job he has done.
My pet peeve? People saying libs want to destroy the economy to get him. Utter nonsense. Democrats do not want to lose loved ones to the virus. Democrats do not want to lose their jobs to the virus. Democrats do not want to lose their businesses to the virus. Democrats do not want to lose their life savings to the virus. But his supporters have to blame someone.
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If y'all believe its sustainable to live under government rule, y'all are nuckin' futs, hey?
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Which has nothing to do with your last statement.
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If y'all believe its sustainable to live under government rule, y'all are nuckin' futs, hey?
Define "government rule."
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We have an ideology that wants to tear down government. That party is in charge when the biggest pandemic in a century lands on us. The need for competent government leadership at the federal level has never been higher. But maybe I am wrong.
4ever, I call on you to make the case that the federal policies and leadership has been effective, timely, or even adequate. Instead of one liners, make the case in favor of the federal response. Show us how good it has been.
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Define "government rule."
(https://babylonbee.com/img/articles/article-6173-art5ebd93ea2a971.jpg)
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If y'all believe its sustainable to live under government rule, y'all are nuckin' futs, hey?
You've lived your entire life under government rule.
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If y'all believe its sustainable to live under government rule, y'all are nuckin' futs, hey?
Hey! Ur a goofball eh?
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Exactly. He had the same oppurtunity that governors had.
Jockey
I know you’ve been a huge fan of Democrat (and a couple of Republican) governors throughout the past 2 months and most of their approval ratings remain high - but it ain’t over ‘til it’s over. Let’s see what Cuomo’s numbers are after people chew on his (just recently rescinded) edict to return infected patients to nursing homes while the Converted Javit’s Center and cruise ship went unused. New Jersey, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Massachusetts and others that are among the least successful containing the virus. If their infection numbers don’t get better soon I expect their approval numbers will suffer. On the other hand, Georgia and Florida governors have taken a lot of heat for opening too soon/not being restrictive enough. If those concerns prove prophetic those guys are in trouble. If not?
I guess my point is that we’re in maybe the 4th or 5th innings of (at least) a double header. Approval and disapproval may prove fleeting as conditions on the ground change.
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Jockey
I know you’ve been a huge fan of Democrat (and a couple of Republican) governors throughout the past 2 months and most of their approval ratings remain high - but it ain’t over ‘til it’s over. Let’s see what Cuomo’s numbers are after people chew on his (just recently rescinded) edict to return infected patients to nursing homes while the Converted Javit’s Center and cruise ship went unused. New Jersey, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Massachusetts and others that are among the least successful containing the virus. If their infection numbers don’t get better soon I expect their approval numbers will suffer. On the other hand, Georgia and Florida governors have taken a lot of heat for opening too soon/not being restrictive enough. If those concerns prove prophetic those guys are in trouble. If not?
I guess my point is that we’re in maybe the 4th or 5th innings of (at least) a double header. Approval and disapproval may prove fleeting as conditions on the ground change.
I don’t disagree, Lenny.
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We have an ideology that wants to tear down government. That party is in charge when the biggest pandemic in a century lands on us. The need for competent government leadership at the federal level has never been higher. But maybe I am wrong.
4ever, I call on you to make the case that the federal policies and leadership has been effective, timely, or even adequate. Instead of one liners, make the case in favor of the federal response. Show us how good it has been.
This is why I keep saying it would not have mattered who is in charge, especially during an election year.
Nancy Pelosi, two spots from the presidency and an ideology of big, strong government is telling constituents in March to party on in Chinatown. New York officials with nursing homes or telling people to ride the subways, attend parades, eat at restaurants. Joe Biden saying how xenophobic it was to shut down travel to and from China. Our party is so consumed with political correctness how many months before we did the same thing or closed the border?
In my opinion you are ignoring, especially in an election year, how either party would have acted and the examples are right in front of you.
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Some of the same people who get upset if anybody suggests there might be a few Scoopers who want to lose basketball games so MU will dump Wojo think nothing of saying some of us are willing to lose half of our life savings (or more) just so the U.S. can dump Trump.
Sorry, but as much as I dislike President Pandemic, I'd rather the economy recover.
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Some of the same people who get upset if anybody suggests there might be a few Scoopers who want to lose basketball games so MU will dump Wojo think nothing of saying some of us are willing to lose half of our life savings (or more) just so the U.S. can dump Trump.
Sorry, but as much as I dislike President Pandemic, I'd rather the economy recover.
Same, I'm not trading my soul for money.
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Some of the same people who get upset if anybody suggests there might be a few Scoopers who want to lose basketball games so MU will dump Wojo think nothing of saying some of us are willing to lose half of our life savings (or more) just so the U.S. can dump Trump.
Sorry, but as much as I dislike President Pandemic, I'd rather the economy recover.
Can you explain Pelosi, DeBlasio, Murphy, and other actions in February and March? Same time frames as the Federal Gov’t and same terrible decisions. Some of the decisions based on not wanting to appear racist, and others economic. They are our leaders, too, and we cannot ignore them and pretend all levels and all ideologies made decisions then and still to this day that are puzzling.
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Can you explain Pelosi, DeBlasio, Murphy, and other actions in February and March? Same time frames as the Federal Gov’t and same terrible decisions. Some of the decisions based on not wanting to appear racist, and others economic. They are our leaders, too, and we cannot ignore them and pretend all levels and all ideologies made decisions then and still to this day that are puzzling.
Whataboutism at its finest.
I've already said I thought DeBlasio has done a poor job; he has never been my cup of tea. Pelosi had very limited power to do anything about the pandemic. Murphy, I don't know enough about.
For a guy who claims to not like President Pandemic, hoopaloop jr., you sure do find lots of interesting ways to defend him.
Have a lovely evening.
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This is why I keep saying it would not have mattered who is in charge, especially during an election year.
Nancy Pelosi, two spots from the presidency and an ideology of big, strong government is telling constituents in March to party on in Chinatown. New York officials with nursing homes or telling people to ride the subways, attend parades, eat at restaurants. Joe Biden saying how xenophobic it was to shut down travel to and from China. Our party is so consumed with political correctness how many months before we did the same thing or closed the border?
In my opinion you are ignoring, especially in an election year, how either party would have acted and the examples are right in front of you.
Weird.
If it was truly your party, you'd know it's been demonstrated many times that Biden did not call the china travel restrictions xenophobic.
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Can you explain Pelosi, DeBlasio, Murphy, and other actions in February and March? Same time frames as the Federal Gov’t and same terrible decisions. Some of the decisions based on not wanting to appear racist, and others economic. They are our leaders, too, and we cannot ignore them and pretend all levels and all ideologies made decisions then and still to this day that are puzzling.
The federal government is making terrible decisions today. That isn’t the close to the same timeframe.
But hey. Election year. Political suicide. Both sides. Did I hit all the points?
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https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/hosp-data.htm
This was the link I was referring to. Breaks it down to beds available by region. Also, your 60-70% number is at odds with their data.
edit: Just checked into a bit more, and it looks like the link I posted is about a week out of date... so don't use it. ;D
edit2: wait, nope, it's fine to use.
Oops....was trying to type to fast and mixed misstated what I was thinking...60-70% was available ventilators since we were talking about severe case. But love the link you sent with the regional breakouts, much more useful now that it’s a county by county decision on if they’re going to reopen
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Jockey
I know you’ve been a huge fan of Democrat (and a couple of Republican) governors throughout the past 2 months and most of their approval ratings remain high - but it ain’t over ‘til it’s over. Let’s see what Cuomo’s numbers are after people chew on his (just recently rescinded) edict to return infected patients to nursing homes while the Converted Javit’s Center and cruise ship went unused. New Jersey, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Massachusetts and others that are among the least successful containing the virus. If their infection numbers don’t get better soon I expect their approval numbers will suffer. On the other hand, Georgia and Florida governors have taken a lot of heat for opening too soon/not being restrictive enough. If those concerns prove prophetic those guys are in trouble. If not?
I guess my point is that we’re in maybe the 4th or 5th innings of (at least) a double header. Approval and disapproval may prove fleeting as conditions on the ground change.
Bolded is false.
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Some of the same people who get upset if anybody suggests there might be a few Scoopers who want to lose basketball games so MU will dump Wojo think nothing of saying some of us are willing to lose half of our life savings (or more) just so the U.S. can dump Trump.
Sorry, but as much as I dislike President Pandemic, I'd rather the economy recover.
Mike
I agree. The ideas that a) Scoopers want the economy to collapse, b) Scoopers value $ over lives and c) Scoopers want MU to lose basketball games are ALL preposterous.
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Some of the same people who get upset if anybody suggests there might be a few Scoopers who want to lose basketball games so MU will dump Wojo think nothing of saying some of us are willing to lose half of our life savings (or more) just so the U.S. can dump Trump.
Sorry, but as much as I dislike President Pandemic, I'd rather the economy recover.
How do you explain impeachment being discussed some 30 minutes after Trump was declared winner on election night?
Or, when watching the State of the Union address you see Dems sitting on their butts as: best ever employment numbers were stated, best workforce participation rate, increasing wages, stock market thriving, ISIS neutralized, troop reductions overseas, LESS U.S. military intervention abroad, improved trade structures with two countries that killed our manufacturing and middle class?
To your analogy - As much as I don't like Wojo AS A COACH, I've never rooted against MU. Further, when attending games, I sure as hell got out of my seat and celebrated the times/games where we were playing well.
I fully understand taking offense to Trump's demeanor, narcissism, but when you see fellow Americans seemingly unhappy about us thriving pre-pandemic, that is problematic. Truly this black swan event has been a God send for those you who are triggered, offended, and unhinged with regard to your hate of Trump. COVID provided a once in a 100-year event for subjective judgments to be made about how Trump failed.
Yet you have solid minds like Biden calling the travel ban racist and xenophobic, Pelosi suggesting San Franciscans go mingle in Chinatown in mid-March, and Cuomo sending Covid patients to nursing homes. And yet we are to think they would have managed the pandemic better? Please.
Keep in mind, all of the media told us an election of Trump would crater the stock markets, he'd get us into wars due to being "unhinged" and mentally unstable. Our journalists told us to be fearful, and half the country bought what their biases sold.
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Do you want this thread locked? Because this is how you get threads locked.
Stick to Wisconsin issues, please.
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How do you explain impeachment being discussed some 30 minutes after Trump was declared winner on election night?
Or, when watching the State of the Union address you see Dems sitting on their butts as: best ever employment numbers were stated, best workforce participation rate, increasing wages, stock market thriving, ISIS neutralized, troop reductions overseas, LESS U.S. military intervention abroad, improved trade structures with two countries that killed our manufacturing and middle class?
To your analogy - As much as I don't like Wojo AS A COACH, I've never rooted against MU. Further, when attending games, I sure as hell got out of my seat and celebrated the times/games where we were playing well.
I fully understand taking offense to Trump's demeanor, narcissism, but when you see fellow Americans seemingly unhappy about us thriving pre-pandemic, that is problematic. Truly this black swan event has been a God send for those you who are triggered, offended, and unhinged with regard to your hate of Trump. COVID provided a once in a 100-year event for subjective judgments to be made about how Trump failed.
Yet you have solid minds like Biden calling the travel ban racist and xenophobic, Pelosi suggesting San Franciscans go mingle in Chinatown in mid-March, and Cuomo sending Covid patients to nursing homes. And yet we are to think they would have managed the pandemic better? Please.
Keep in mind, all of the media told us an election of Trump would crater the stock markets, he'd get us into wars due to being "unhinged" and mentally unstable. Our journalists told us to be fearful, and half the country bought what their biases sold.
1. Been proven wrong.
2. SOTU reactions? I must have missed your abhorrence when a conservative Congressional member yelled "You lie!" in the middle of Obama's a few years ago
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great great post elon! i feel much better already
Still waiting on your answers
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2. SOTU reactions? I must have missed your abhorrence when a conservative Congressional member yelled "You lie!" in the middle of Obama's a few years ago
I guess you’re not able to grasp the context of what you’re responding to. So allow me to help - all the issues Democrats claim to care so deeply about, metrics that were all undeniably positive and great for our country and various socioeconomic classes, yet no Dem could bring themselves to even pretend to celebrate those accomplishments.
Actually, I’m sure you do understand very well, so you try to change context of the argument because there’s no other viable defense your side has.
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I guess you’re not able to grasp the context of what you’re responding to. So allow me to help - all the issues Democrats claim to care so deeply about, metrics that were all undeniably positive and great for our country and various socioeconomic classes, yet no Dem could bring themselves to even pretend to celebrate those accomplishments.
Actually, I’m sure you do understand very well, so you try to change context of the argument because there’s no other viable defense your side has.
Steel workers and farmers likely disagree with your assessment. But I will say the economy was doing splendid and happily celebrated that.
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Scoop beer summit at Mo’s Irish Pub in Tosa today?
Jackson’s Blue Ribbon has to be thrilled right now. I would’ve thought it was ridiculous but at least respected it if the press conference they held went something like, “We don’t think we should have to stay closed while people 5 miles west of us can open up so we’re opening up.” But to stand up there and say, “The Supreme Court said we could open!” Uhh, nope!
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Steel workers and farmers likely disagree with your assessment. But I will say the economy was doing splendid and happily celebrated that.
Ask steel workers and farmers in one, five, ten years...after new trade deals that got done.
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Ask steel workers and farmers in one, five, ten years...after new trade deals that got done.
Ok I'll ask in ten years and I envision this'll be my opening line: "I know you lost your farm/house but look the massive conglomerate that you sold your farm to is making more money. I call that a success!"
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1. Been proven wrong.
2. SOTU reactions? I must have missed your abhorrence when a conservative Congressional member yelled "You lie!" in the middle of Obama's a few years ago
Whataboutism.
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Whataboutism.
Dang right that was my response because the initial was intellectual dishonesty
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Keep in mind, all of the media told us an election of Trump would crater the stock markets, he'd get us into wars due to being "unhinged" and mentally unstable. Our journalists told us to be fearful, and half the country bought what their biases sold.
Especially the ones at Fox News, the Wall Street Journal, the Chicago Tribune, The Hill, the Washington Times, Breitbart, OAN, the Federalist and the National Review, not to mention Rush Limbaugh and his cohorts in the world of talk radio. They've hated Trump from the start.
And thanks for bringing unrelated politics into the thread.
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Do you want this thread locked? Because this is how you get threads locked.
Stick to Wisconsin issues, please.
After Topper's post, 9 more posts (not counting Wade's beer summit post, as it relates to Wisconsin).
Those in Wisconsin, what's a fair percentage of bars that actually opened v. bars that decided they still won't open after the WISCOTUS ruling?
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Oops....was trying to type to fast and mixed misstated what I was thinking...60-70% was available ventilators since we were talking about severe case. But love the link you sent with the regional breakouts, much more useful now that it’s a county by county decision on if they’re going to reopen
What is funny is after looking at your link, mine was a link on that page. haha.
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Mike
I agree. The ideas that a) Scoopers want the economy to collapse, b) Scoopers value $ over lives and c) Scoopers want MU to lose basketball games are ALL preposterous.
Reasonable response, Lenny.
How do you explain impeachment being discussed some 30 minutes after Trump was declared winner on election night?
Or, when watching the State of the Union address you see Dems sitting on their butts as: best ever employment numbers were stated, best workforce participation rate, increasing wages, stock market thriving, ISIS neutralized, troop reductions overseas, LESS U.S. military intervention abroad, improved trade structures with two countries that killed our manufacturing and middle class?
To your analogy - As much as I don't like Wojo AS A COACH, I've never rooted against MU. Further, when attending games, I sure as hell got out of my seat and celebrated the times/games where we were playing well.
I fully understand taking offense to Trump's demeanor, narcissism, but when you see fellow Americans seemingly unhappy about us thriving pre-pandemic, that is problematic. Truly this black swan event has been a God send for those you who are triggered, offended, and unhinged with regard to your hate of Trump. COVID provided a once in a 100-year event for subjective judgments to be made about how Trump failed.
Yet you have solid minds like Biden calling the travel ban racist and xenophobic, Pelosi suggesting San Franciscans go mingle in Chinatown in mid-March, and Cuomo sending Covid patients to nursing homes. And yet we are to think they would have managed the pandemic better? Please.
Keep in mind, all of the media told us an election of Trump would crater the stock markets, he'd get us into wars due to being "unhinged" and mentally unstable. Our journalists told us to be fearful, and half the country bought what their biases sold.
Trolling to be ignored.
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Whataboutism at its finest.
I've already said I thought DeBlasio has done a poor job; he has never been my cup of tea. Pelosi had very limited power to do anything about the pandemic. Murphy, I don't know enough about.
For a guy who claims to not like President Pandemic, hoopaloop jr., you sure do find lots of interesting ways to defend him.
Have a lovely evening.
You and others have been doing nothing about whataboutism for months. How am I defending him? His response has been mostly terrible. In my opinion the leadership of others has also been terrible.
President Obama left this country with very few N95 masks despite the depletion on his watch. Fact checked. Why didn't the previous administration replenish the masks and not leave us in the hole we are in? I'm not partisan, you are. Many people, govt's (local, state, federal) have failed us both present and past. You don't seem to want to acknowledge this
Obama administration did not replenish millions of N95 masks https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/
About "75 percent of N95 respirators and 25 percent of face masks contained in the CDC's Strategic National Stockpile (∼100 million products) were deployed for use in health care settings over the course of the 2009 H1N1 pandemic response," and later with hurricanes in 2010 and 2014. They were not replaced during the Obama or Trump administrations.
This is one of a number of examples of failed leadership past and present.
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You and others have been doing nothing about whataboutism for months. How am I defending him? His response has been mostly terrible. In my opinion the leadership of others has also been terrible.
President Obama left this country with very few N95 masks despite the depletion on his watch. Fact checked. Why didn't the previous administration replenish the masks and not leave us in the hole we are in? I'm not partisan, you are. Many people, govt's (local, state, federal) have failed us both present and past. You don't seem to want to acknowledge this
Obama administration did not replenish millions of N95 masks https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/
About "75 percent of N95 respirators and 25 percent of face masks contained in the CDC's Strategic National Stockpile (∼100 million products) were deployed for use in health care settings over the course of the 2009 H1N1 pandemic response," and later with hurricanes in 2010 and 2014. They were not replaced during the Obama or Trump administrations.
This is one of a number of examples of failed leadership past and present.
What are you talking about? You've never voted for a single republican in your life. You are the definition of partisan.
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Ask steel workers and farmers in one, five, ten years...after new trade deals that got done.
Like TPP? Oops!
NAFTA 2.0 which really didn't change much of anything at all. TPP had more things in it that changed Canada & Mexico trade. NAFTA 2.0 is watered down TPP agreements that .Mexico and Canada already agreed too which is why it took no time to reach an agreement. Obama already got ta them to agree.
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You and others have been doing nothing about whataboutism for months. How am I defending him? His response has been mostly terrible. In my opinion the leadership of others has also been terrible.
President Obama left this country with very few N95 masks despite the depletion on his watch. Fact checked. Why didn't the previous administration replenish the masks and not leave us in the hole we are in? I'm not partisan, you are. Many people, govt's (local, state, federal) have failed us both present and past. You don't seem to want to acknowledge this
Obama administration did not replenish millions of N95 masks https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/
About "75 percent of N95 respirators and 25 percent of face masks contained in the CDC's Strategic National Stockpile (∼100 million products) were deployed for use in health care settings over the course of the 2009 H1N1 pandemic response," and later with hurricanes in 2010 and 2014. They were not replaced during the Obama or Trump administrations.
This is one of a number of examples of failed leadership past and present.
Hoopaloopin'.
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What are you talking about? You've never voted for a single republican in your life. You are the definition of partisan.
It's really hard to maintain a lie, eventually people forget.
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The thread lives.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/05/16/covid-19-cases-spike-but-wisconsin-crowds-kind-done-all/5207558002/
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Wisconsin
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2020/05/wisconsin-photos/611710/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_term=2020-05-17T17%25253A35%25253A44
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/05/16/covid-19-cases-spike-but-wisconsin-crowds-kind-done-all/5207558002/
Fake news.
We saw more cases because we have massively ramped up testing. Corona incubation is usually 3 to 4 days. Then first testing an extra day or two at least for people to go out and get tested. Then another day for tests to be reported.
Thursdays effect won't be seen until at least wednesday
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Nobody is claiming that the uptick in positive cases is because the state started to open up. All anyone is saying is that the state decided to open up despite the fact that the virus obviously isn’t really going anywhere.
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Fake news.
We saw more cases because we have massively ramped up testing. Corona incubation is usually 3 to 4 days. Then first testing an extra day or two at least for people to go out and get tested. Then another day for tests to be reported.
Thursdays effect won't be seen until at least wednesday
Um, so the spike was caused by testing?
Really what you are saying is that before the opening, the problem was worse than we knew, since we didn’t do enough testing.
Not a ringing endorsement for opening the state up.
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Nobody is claiming that the uptick in positive cases is because the state started to open up. All anyone is saying is that the state decided to open up despite the fact that the virus obviously isn’t really going anywhere.
Agree there hasn’t been much of a decline in positive cases since the lockdown started....will be interesting to see the numbers a month from now, if they stay relatively the same or decrease it’d almost seem like shutting everything down was entirely unnecessary and had little effect on the course of the virus
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Agree there hasn’t been much of a decline in positive cases since the lockdown started....will be interesting to see the numbers a month from now, if they stay relatively the same or decrease it’d almost seem like shutting everything down was entirely unnecessary and had little effect on the course of the virus
I think some sort of shut down was necessary if for no other reason than to give time to come up with some kind of social distance planning. I think if people had went on as if nothing was going on we would’ve seen a lot of NYC type situations throughout the country. Packed arenas full of fans would’ve been devastating.
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No Covid deaths reported in Wisconsin today. Please trend.
53215 zip code, a Hispanic neighborhood, is the latest hotspot.
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No Covid deaths reported in Wisconsin today. Please trend.
How dare you come on here with any positive news!!
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I think some sort of shut down was necessary if for no other reason than to give time to come up with some kind of social distance planning. I think if people had went on as if nothing was going on we would’ve seen a lot of NYC type situations throughout the country. Packed arenas full of fans would’ve been devastating.
Absolutely, agree 100%......I was fully on board the first 2-3 weeks of the shut down to give the experts a chance to figure this thing out and put a plan in place, the good ol days of “15 days to slow the spread“
The time to allow folks to return to work is about 5 weeks past due imo.
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Interesting article on the lag time of the virus. Seems germane given the discussion about re-opening. This is from the NY Times morning brief, so no link:
How virus data can mislead
"Life in New York City felt pretty normal in early March. Children were going to school. Restaurants and theaters were packed. On March 9, I recorded a podcast in front of a few hundred people in Times Square.
In hindsight, we know that the coronavirus was then sweeping across the city. Deaths peaked in early to mid-April. And the typical time from contraction to death is from three to five weeks, according to my colleague Apoorva Mandavilli — which suggests early March was near the peak for transmission.
Over the next couple of weeks, it’s going to be important to keep this recent history in mind. Without mass testing — and the United States is not doing mass testing — there is a lag before a virus outbreak becomes apparent. Most people who develop symptoms don’t do so for at least five days, and sometimes longer. The worst symptoms usually take almost three weeks to appear.
With more parts of the U.S. starting to reopen, many people will be tempted to look at the data this week and start proclaiming victory over the virus. But this week’s data won’t tell us much. It will instead reflect the reality from early May and late April, when much of the country was still on lockdown.
“The data are always two or three weeks old,” Ezekiel Emanuel of the University of Pennsylvania told me. “And we have a hard time understanding that things are different from what we’re looking at.” Crystal Watson of Johns Hopkins University told The Associated Press that we wouldn’t really know how reopening had affected the virus’s spread for five to six weeks.
It’s possible that the reopenings won’t cause the outbreaks that many epidemiologists fear — because many people will still stay home, or because they will venture out cautiously, or because the virus may spread more slowly in warmer air. But it’s also possible that the country will find itself suffering through a new wave of outbreaks in June.
Either way, I’d encourage you not to leap to premature conclusions."
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One good thing is our testing and awareness is way better than early March in NYC. So maybe not ideal (ie required asymptomatic testing) but should be able to detect much quicker than before.
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So now that the NY Times has had the epiphany that death data is extremely problematic with the majority of the media stop breathlessly reporting it every day?
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So now that the NY Times has had the epiphany that death data is extremely problematic with the majority of the media stop breathlessly reporting it every day?
Problematic? I read it as being described as a lagging indicator.
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Problematic? I read it as being described as a lagging indicator.
It is certainly a lagging indicator but it is also misleading, at least in the context of what data is collected and how its reported.
Take the Texas number that Forgetful cited a couple of days ago where they had record deaths in one day. They reported 58 deaths in that day, but if you dig into that particular day, 17 of those deaths were from a prison where the deaths had occurred over a 3 week period starting 5 weeks before the reporting. A further 10 of those deaths were from West Texas and had occurred the week before. However the headline is Texas has most deaths in a single day.
There is no doubting that deaths per day could be a useful indicator, but the way its constructed and the way it's used make it problematic at best.
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It is certainly a lagging indicator but it is also misleading, at least in the context of what data is collected and how its reported.
Take the Texas number that Forgetful cited a couple of days ago where they had record deaths in one day. They reported 58 deaths in that day, but if you dig into that particular day, 17 of those deaths were from a prison where the deaths had occurred over a 3 week period starting 5 weeks before the reporting. A further 10 of those deaths were from West Texas and had occurred the week before. However the headline is Texas has most deaths in a single day.
There is no doubting that deaths per day could be a useful indicator, but the way its constructed and the way it's used make it problematic at best.
The interpretation is problematic in some instances. I agree.
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So now that the NY Times has had the epiphany that death data is extremely problematic with the majority of the media stop breathlessly reporting it every day?
Indeed .. the MJS had an article ~10 days ago about what a typical COVID death was, if there was such a thing, age 70s, in a nursing home, etc.
We spend a gigantic amount of time analyzing the death counts -- and marginalizing them with, well, I'm young, I don't have comorbidities, I should be fine.
But .. death is the outcome in <1% of the cases. Multiply that by 4x to get the critical cases, respiratory failure, multi-organ failure, septic shock of people damn close to death.
Then there's the severe cases .. 14% with pneumonia, etc. So many stories of people "thinking they were going to die .. felt like there was glass in my lungs .." but thankfully recovered.
This virus is not a huge killer -- but for a huge chunk of people, it's just brutal.
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Indeed .. the MJS had an article ~10 days ago about what a typical COVID death was, if there was such a thing, age 70s, in a nursing home, etc.
We spend a gigantic amount of time analyzing the death counts -- and marginalizing them with, well, I'm young, I don't have comorbidities, I should be fine.
But .. death is the outcome in <1% of the cases. Multiply that by 4x to get the critical cases, respiratory failure, multi-organ failure, septic shock of people damn close to death.
Then there's the severe cases .. 14% with pneumonia, etc. So many stories of people "thinking they were going to die .. felt like there was glass in my lungs .." but thankfully recovered.
This virus is not a huge killer -- but for a huge chunk of people, it's just brutal.
Isn't it a fairly high percentage of people dealing with lasting damage after you get it? Or was that an early falsehood?
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Indeed .. the MJS had an article ~10 days ago about what a typical COVID death was, if there was such a thing, age 70s, in a nursing home, etc.
We spend a gigantic amount of time analyzing the death counts -- and marginalizing them with, well, I'm young, I don't have comorbidities, I should be fine.
But .. death is the outcome in <1% of the cases. Multiply that by 4x to get the critical cases, respiratory failure, multi-organ failure, septic shock of people damn close to death.
Then there's the severe cases .. 14% with pneumonia, etc. So many stories of people "thinking they were going to die .. felt like there was glass in my lungs .." but thankfully recovered.
This virus is not a huge killer -- but for a huge chunk of people, it's just brutal.
Conversely, in the decade that just ended, Michigan had 2200 deaths from the flu. 5000 COVID deaths in two months. I agree with your underlying point, topper. Better testing for antibodies is going to reveal a much higher infection rate and therefore a lower mortality rate. A treatment for the bad cases and we can all but out this behind us.
edit: My bad. Since 2000, not in the last decade.
https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/05/the-flu-has-killed-2200-michiganders-since-2000-coronavirus-topped-that-in-a-month.html
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Conversely, in the decade that just ended, Michigan had 2200 deaths from the flu. 5000 COVID deaths in two months. I agree with your underlying point, topper. Better testing for antibodies is going to reveal a much higher infection rate and therefore a lower mortality rate. A treatment for the bad cases and we can all but out this behind us.
That is exactly what the stay at home orders were to do buy us some time to save lives and understand the virus better. now do we understand it better who knows it seems each week new info comes out. Cannot trust everything you read it will dive you crazy
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You and WD make a point that you seem to view as a negative that I view as a positive. Considering our knowledge of this virus 4 months ago, huge strides have been made. So much more knowledge and understanding, lots of scientists making progress toward vaccines and treatments. OF COURSE it changes every week. We want it too. If it wasn't changing every week, then science and society would truly be failing.
Who to believe? I follow and trust scientists. Data not agenda. And I want and expect things to change on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.
I BELIEVE that the only way to know exactly where we are with this is universal antibody testing.
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You and WD make a point that you seem to view as a negative that I view as a positive. Considering our knowledge of this virus 4 months ago, huge strides have been made. So much more knowledge and understanding, lots of scientists making progress toward vaccines and treatments. OF COURSE it changes every week. We want it too. If it wasn't changing every week, then science and society would truly be failing.
Who to believe? I follow and trust scientists. Data not agenda. And I want and expect things to change on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.
I BELIEVE that the only way to know exactly where we are with this is universal antibody testing.
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It is certainly a lagging indicator but it is also misleading, at least in the context of what data is collected and how its reported.
Take the Texas number that Forgetful cited a couple of days ago where they had record deaths in one day. They reported 58 deaths in that day, but if you dig into that particular day, 17 of those deaths were from a prison where the deaths had occurred over a 3 week period starting 5 weeks before the reporting. A further 10 of those deaths were from West Texas and had occurred the week before. However the headline is Texas has most deaths in a single day.
There is no doubting that deaths per day could be a useful indicator, but the way its constructed and the way it's used make it problematic at best.
I don't think I was the one who discussed that.
I agree with you, that due to the date of indexing, fixating on the exact daily trend in deaths/cases can be problematic. Add to it, that many localities don't report on weekends, then lump them all together on monday/tuesday. Usually the 7-day moving average is a bit better.
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The one thing I'll caution regarding the CDC, is that it is controlled by the Whitehouse, and what they publicly post is usually filtered through the Whitehouse editors. Sometimes, that means that the original science is watered down, or altered.
I agree. I trust the CDC, just cautious on the Whitehouse political filter. (see guidelines to reopen).
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You and WD make a point that you seem to view as a negative that I view as a positive. Considering our knowledge of this virus 4 months ago, huge strides have been made. So much more knowledge and understanding, lots of scientists making progress toward vaccines and treatments. OF COURSE it changes every week. We want it too. If it wasn't changing every week, then science and society would truly be failing.
Who to believe? I follow and trust scientists. Data not agenda. And I want and expect things to change on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.
I BELIEVE that the only way to know exactly where we are with this is universal antibody testing.
Tower I agree antibody testing for all would be huge. The part about new things every week was more the garbage that gets thrown out there and puts some in a panic. Stick to the basics wash your hands, 6 ft apart, put on a mask and watch your loved ones closely for changes to their bodies/behavior.
I do think the progress by the scientists weekly is great and a huge positive
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Tower I agree antibody testing for all would be huge. The part about new things every week was more the garbage that gets thrown out there and puts some in a panic. Stick to the basics wash your hands, 6 ft apart, put on a mask and watch your loved ones closely for changes to their bodies/behavior.
I do think the progress by the scientists weekly is great and a huge positive
I think we are more in agreement than disagreement
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Dane County releases a 14 page, convoluted plan today. https://publichealthmdc.com/documents/Forward_Dane.pdf (https://publichealthmdc.com/documents/Forward_Dane.pdf)
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Dane County releases a 14 page, convoluted plan today. https://publichealthmdc.com/documents/Forward_Dane.pdf (https://publichealthmdc.com/documents/Forward_Dane.pdf)
I get the feeling you'd be calling it comprehensive if this was Waukesha county.
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I get the feeling you'd be calling it comprehensive if this was Waukesha county.
Wrong.
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Well, there you go people. You're on your own.
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/evers-administration-wont-pursue-new-covid-19-restrictions-amid-impasse-with-gop/article_86186768-a9a4-5ff2-947c-db0caeaf9767.html
I don't understand the "rule making" process here. I would have imagined the rule would be written and either accepted, re-written, or rejected by the legislature, like any legislation.
Our state and the country has taken a breathtaking fall from civility and common values and purpose.
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Well, there you go people. You're on your own.
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/evers-administration-wont-pursue-new-covid-19-restrictions-amid-impasse-with-gop/article_86186768-a9a4-5ff2-947c-db0caeaf9767.html
I don't understand the "rule making" process here. I would have imagined the rule would be written and either accepted, re-written, or rejected by the legislature, like any legislation.
Our state and the country has taken a breathtaking fall from civility and common values and purpose.
It's kind of interesting in a "this would be more interesting if the world weren't on fire" kind of way to watch the political process evolve so that one side plays by purely Machiavellian game theory rules, and the other just... doesn't. I guess its what would happen if the people in the Prisoner's Dilemma have played the game 1000 times, each time making the same decisions, and only one of the two sides electing to maximize their expected outcome.
Back in Roman times there was a shared set of norms and customs, "mos maiorum," that governed how people interacted with the state, with the powers of the offices they held, with each other, etc. This isn't to say that mos maiorum dictated that people interact selflessly with the state or their powers (plenty, plenty of corruption was expected and even tolerated), but to oversimplify: In order to play the game, you had to abide by the norms of mos maiorum... until the generations that preceded Julius Ceasar's generation. Then a couple of players realized that they could simply... not play by the same rules. For example, one elected office had a universal veto, so they held the government hostage by exercising that veto over everything and fought mob battles in the streets to ensure they held onto that veto. The shared rules that knit the society together started to fray, and a couple generations later were gone entirely.
The problem with looking at Wisconsin's governance is one where we're viewing it through the lens of our own mos maiorum. When we "why aren't they doing what we expect a legislature to do?" or "why is the supreme court as nakedly political as it is?" we're testing the behavior of some of the players of a game who've observed that violating the the mos maiorum rules of the game have no consequence against the expectation that they do abide by those rules.
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Well, there you go people. You're on your own.
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/evers-administration-wont-pursue-new-covid-19-restrictions-amid-impasse-with-gop/article_86186768-a9a4-5ff2-947c-db0caeaf9767.html
I don't understand the "rule making" process here. I would have imagined the rule would be written and either accepted, re-written, or rejected by the legislature, like any legislation.
Our state and the country has taken a breathtaking fall from civility and common values and purpose.
The abject failure of Wisconsin leadership on both sides of the aisle is appalling. The election of 2010 still resonates a decade later and the citizens of Wisconsin are the ones that pay the price. We’re a generation away from any sense of political normalcy in this once great state.
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Well, there you go people. You're on your own.
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/evers-administration-wont-pursue-new-covid-19-restrictions-amid-impasse-with-gop/article_86186768-a9a4-5ff2-947c-db0caeaf9767.html
I don't understand the "rule making" process here. I would have imagined the rule would be written and either accepted, re-written, or rejected by the legislature, like any legislation.
Our state and the country has taken a breathtaking fall from civility and common values and purpose.
Didn't Evers already make a rule for the state? Like Evers or not, it is one side only that has declared that there will be no rules. We know that if he tries anything else, Vos and Fitgerald will just go to the court and have it overturned.
With a minority of votes statewide, R's will continue to have veto-proof control of the legislature. There will be no change at any time in the foreseeable future due to extreme gerrymandering.
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The abject failure of Wisconsin leadership on both sides of the aisle is appalling. The election of 2010 still resonates a decade later and the citizens of Wisconsin are the ones that pay the price. We’re a generation away from any sense of political normalcy in this once great state.
Both sider-ism at its finest.
One side had a plan. The other side had none and destroyed the first plan with nothing to replace it. Does that make them equal in your eyes?
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Didn't Evers already make a rule for the state? Like Evers or not, it is one side only that has declared that there will be no rules. We know that if he tries anything else, Vos and Fitgerald will just go to the court and have it overturned.
With a minority of votes statewide, R's will continue to have veto-proof control of the legislature. There will be no change at any time in the foreseeable future due to extreme gerrymandering.
i really hate politics and the games. So much easier when i was younger and had no clue what was going on except that Nancy told me to Just Say No to drugs
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Both sider-ism at its finest.
One side had a plan. The other side had none and destroyed the first plan with nothing to replace it. Does that make them equal in your eyes?
In this instance, I deplore the republican actions of the past 90 days. I deplored the democratic officials that ran to Illinois after Walker got elected. It set the precedent that continues today in its pettiness
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Per the DHS website, there are 128 covid patients in the ICU statewide. 380 total hospitalizations.
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The problem with looking at Wisconsin's governance is one where we're viewing it through the lens of our own mos maiorum. When we "why aren't they doing what we expect a legislature to do?" or "why is the supreme court as nakedly political as it is?" we're testing the behavior of some of the players of a game who've observed that violating the the mos maiorum rules of the game have no consequence against the expectation that they do abide by those rules.
Rather like firing every single person that may have oversight to you because you know the only body that can hold you accountable refuses to do so?
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Per the DHS website, there are 128 covid patients in the ICU statewide. 380 total hospitalizations.
Great news. There are tentative plans to resume a lot of our business on 6/1. Of course, there are new regulations, and requirements to keep our clients safe... but no way to compensate us for the increase in cost to us. I have sincere doubts about how our company moves forward in any way that we did prior to 3/17. Our client's agencies want to know our plan, but there is no good way to tell them that things can't just go back to normal, and we won't be able to serve everyone we used to... and those who we will now serve will see their rates explode in cost to compensate. A lot of eyes are going to be opened in the next couple of weeks.
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In this instance, I deplore the republican actions of the past 90 days. I deplored the democratic officials that ran to Illinois after Walker got elected. It set the precedent that continues today in its pettiness
Thanks, Rico. Very fair points.
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To wit,
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/19/wisconsin-coronavirus-supreme-court-failed-state
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i really hate politics and the games. So much easier when i was younger and had no clue what was going on except that Nancy told me to Just Say No to drugs
But even that was a politically charged policy that has had a huge negative effect.
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Couple of caveats and priors to admit to before I ask my question:
-I wish we hadn't crashed out of the stay at home order, I wish there had been a ramp down
-I'm libertarian at my core, my governing philosophy is let everyone maximize their utility/happiness and government only need to step in when those maximization curves conflict/interfere.
-If there is conflict I want it resolved at the lowest/most efficent form of government
-Covid risk is real, we needed to shut down but we've now bought ourselves some time and space to figure out how to operate more openly in a new normal
So the crash down aside, hell let's pretend we're at May 26th and we have an ordered ramp down........why is it an inherently bad thing that each community, whether city or county, is determining their own approach? Dane County has determined, based on its metrics that Ziggy shared, that they are going to be closed down for a while....if that's what's best for that county so be it. If Waukesha County decides to open up with some restrictions, why is that a bad thing? If Walworth County throws the doors open and it's based on its situation how is that any of our business per se?
Bottom line, we all have our various risk tolerances, why should we centralize that for the whole state at the lowest common denominator at this point in the pandemic?
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Because one county's laissez faire approach to COVID can have negative consequences for surrounding counties.
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I'd agree .. that a regional approach is the right one. I'd divide the state into regions .. somewhere between 5-10, but fewer = better.
And I'd have the county health departments inside the region agree to and submit plans to the state health department (for approval) // or I'd have the state health dept come up with X "stages" of openness that the regions can choose from.
Seems .. reasonable, flexible.
Why can't the parties agree to that? Legit question.
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Illinois and Michigan are doing something like this.
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Because one county's laissez faire approach to COVID can have negative consequences for surrounding counties.
Replace county with state, would the same not be true? Should all of the states adhere to the same standards that California or New York?
Not trying to be contrarian, looking for a reasonable approach to take.
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I like a regional approach, but counties like Waukesha and Milwaukee are in the same region. We aren't taking a regional approach based on sound public health. We are taking a haphazard one based on the politics of the counties / municipalities.
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Replace county with state, would the same not be true? Should all of the states adhere to the same standards that California or New York?
Not trying to be contrarian, looking for a reasonable approach to take.
Because people travel between cities and counties much more often than they do between states.
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I'd agree .. that a regional approach is the right one. I'd divide the state into regions .. somewhere between 5-10, but fewer = better.
And I'd have the county health departments inside the region agree to and submit plans to the state health department // or I'd have the state health dept come up with X "stages" of openness that the regions can choose from.
Seems .. reasonable.
It sure does
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Because people travel between cities and counties much more often than they do between states.
Except for the borders of course
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Replace county with state, would the same not be true? Should all of the states adhere to the same standards that California or New York?
Not trying to be contrarian, looking for a reasonable approach to take.
This Rebuttal would make more sense if Chicago was where Waukegan is and Milwaukee where Kenosha is. But nobody from Chicago is about to Uber to Kenosha or Lake Geneva to finally get a night out on the town with friends. They will however Uber to Naperville or Schaumburg to get a night on the town when those areas are open.
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Except for the borders of course
Which are not densely populated between WI IL MI or MN. An example of Chicago to Gary could work or NYC to CT and NJ.
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This Rebuttal would make more sense if Chicago was where Waukegan is and Milwaukee where Kenosha is. But nobody from Chicago is about to Uber to Kenosha or Lake Geneva to finally get a night out on the town with friends. They will however Uber to Naperville or Schaumburg to get a night on the town when those areas are open.
You clearly haven't been to Lake Geneva of late. ;D
Had a friend of a friend who lives in the south loop drive up to north of the Dells to play Mammoth Dunes with us two weekends ago.
If open, people will travel
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Then you have counties like Dane that took Evers' plan, then added 3 additional metrics, with still no logic about what can and cant be open, all the while cases in the county are dropping.
Example: trampoline parks and indoor play centers are 50% capacity in phase 2, but outdoor sports are "TBD". WTF? I can't think of a worse place to spread illness than a trampoline park.
Home depot had cars literally to the end of their giant parking lot on Saturday, but small retailers are limited to 5 customers at a time. I can go to my local Ace Hardware, but can't go to the clothing store across the street. Where is the science behind these types of decisions?
The dane co plan has lots of "sciences" in their red/yellow/green scheme, but where is the scientific difference between one type of retail or service provider and another? Is the the plexiglass at the registers or the arrows taped to the floor in the grocery store?
By having such an illogical system, people will just go to the surrounding counties to get what they need. (If it was regional within the state, people will just go to a different region.) Is that in the best interest of public health?
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You clearly haven't been to Lake Geneva of late. ;D
Had a friend of a friend who lives in the south loop drive up to north of the Dells to play Mammoth Dunes with us two weekends ago.
If open, people will travel
Those are all Sconis you see out and about not the IL people!
But more seriously I hate to say it but those who went up to Lake Geneva to be in their summer homes (or escape fox lake) aren't exactly the people getting hit hardest from dense areas. Which is why I keep bringing up whether people would hop in an Uber to head somewhere.
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Ziggy, there are inconsistencies at the state level in each state. A rational federal guideline driven by science sure would be nice, wouldn't it?
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The dane co plan has lots of "sciences" in their red/yellow/green scheme, but where is the scientific difference between one type of retail or service provider and another? Is the the plexiglass at the registers or the arrows taped to the floor in the grocery store?
I agree there. And it takes about 10 seconds to come up with a guideline like "All retail locations must have XX square feet per customer." Small shop = not many people.
And or .. define high/low contacts businesses .. high/low age group businesses. High/low distancing-difficulty businesses.
I keep coming back to: Why is this so damn hard that the two parties can't agree? Sometimes I'm left with: One party wants to have an electoral advantage, which I suppose results in a "well, duh."
Yay, doom!
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I agree there. And it takes about 10 seconds to come up with a guideline like "All retail locations must have XX square feet per customer." Small shop = not many people.
And or .. define high/low contacts businesses .. high/low age group businesses. High/low distancing-difficulty businesses.
I keep coming back to: Why is this so damn hard that the two parties can't agree? Sometimes I'm left with: One party wants to have has an electoral advantage, which I suppose results in a "well, duh."
Yay, doom!
If the majority of the legislature wants to pass a law that aligns with the executive order, then that will be the law. But if the legislature wants to pass a law that says something different than what the executive order states, then that will be the law. It might not be what the executive wanted, and it might not be what you wanted, but it's what the majority in power wanted. But it's the legislature that is to enact the law. Unless and until the law gets changed, the Governor doesn't have the authority to extend the lockdown as long as he wants. One would think that the legislature then needs to pull their collective heads out of their collective asses and do something, but by sitting on the sidelines, they already are. The problem is that many people don't agree with their action/inaction.
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I agree there. And it takes about 10 seconds to come up with a guideline like "All retail locations must have XX square feet per customer." Small shop = not many people.
And or .. define high/low contacts businesses .. high/low age group businesses. High/low distancing-difficulty businesses.
I keep coming back to: Why is this so damn hard that the two parties can't agree? Sometimes I'm left with: One party wants to have an electoral advantage, which I suppose results in a "well, duh."
Yay, doom!
I've often wondered what would have happened if this pandemic happened two years ago or two years from now
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If the majority of the legislature wants to pass a law that aligns with the executive order, then that will be the law. But if the legislature wants to pass a law that says something different than what the executive order states, then that will be the law. It might not be what the executive wanted, and it might not be what you wanted, but it's what the majority in power wanted. But it's the legislature that is to enact the law. Unless and until the law gets changed, the Governor doesn't have the authority to extend the lockdown as long as he wants. One would think that the legislature then needs to pull their collective heads out of their collective asses and do something, but by sitting on the sidelines, they already are. The problem is that many people don't agree with their action/inaction.
I mean....no sh*t. No one is disputing this.
I think people are just frustrated that a global pandemic is just another time where government dysfunction reigns. Where Democrats and Republicans, legislative and executive, have to resort to petty differences and talking points versus sitting down and hammering out a common sense, balanced approach. So instead, people stake their positions on either side and sue one another if they don't like the other approach.
So instead we have a patch-work that isn't based on any public health science, but on politics. People are just exhausted by it.
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I think people are just frustrated that a global pandemic is just another time where government dysfunction reigns.
People are just exhausted by it.
This. Heard a guy on TV say something like "If Los Angeles was the subject of a North Korean nuclear attack, it would be a partisan issue by Day 2.
We don't disagree anymore. We disgust each other as Americans."
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I mean....no sh*t. No one is disputing this.
I think people are just frustrated that a global pandemic is just another time where government dysfunction reigns. Where Democrats and Republicans, legislative and executive, have to resort to petty differences and talking points versus sitting down and hammering out a common sense, balanced approach. So instead, people stake their positions on either side and sue one another if they don't like the other approach.
So instead we have a patch-work that isn't based on any public health science, but on politics. People are just exhausted by it.
Actually, if you read through just the last few pages of this thread, people are disputing this. Like it or not, whether a plan is in place or not, it's not the court's job to make the plan.
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If the majority of the legislature wants to pass a law that aligns with the executive order, then that will be the law. But if the legislature wants to pass a law that says something different than what the executive order states, then that will be the law. It might not be what the executive wanted, and it might not be what you wanted, but it's what the majority in power wanted. But it's the legislature that is to enact the law. Unless and until the law gets changed, the Governor doesn't have the authority to extend the lockdown as long as he wants. One would think that the legislature then needs to pull their collective heads out of their collective asses and do something, but by sitting on the sidelines, they already are. The problem is that many people don't agree with their action/inaction.
Thanks for the civics lesson, teach!
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Actually, if you read through just the last few pages of this thread, people are disputing this. Like it or not, whether a plan is in place or not, it's not the court's job to make the plan.
I don't recall anyone suggesting it's the court's job to make a plan. The criticism has been of the court's decision not to place a temporary stay on its ruling in order to allow state and local health authorities to prepare for impacts of the ruling, rather than allowing for the Wild West show we've seen over the last week. That kind of thing is fairly common.
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Ziggy, there are inconsistencies at the state level in each state. A rational federal guideline driven by science sure would be nice, wouldn't it?
Nope, then the blues would bitch you can't take away the power of governors. Can't win. Damned either way, hey?
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Nope, then the blues would bitch you can't take away the power of governors. Can't win. Damned either way, hey?
Evers was following federal guidelines established by a republican executive. You’re right. Damned either way
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Evers was following federal guidelines established by a republican executive. You’re right. Damned either way
Yep, and that executive's sycophants protest their governors for following the executive's own guidelines. What a country!
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Yep, and that executive's sycophants protest their governors for following the executive's own guidelines. What a country!
So you are saying there has been federal direction on what/when do to this whole time? It seems depending on the thread a handful of posters here are bouncing between....”there is no federal guidance so we shouldn’t be shocked at the chaos in our reopening plan” and then in their next breath saying “blue governors were just trying to execute the federal game plan” but the courts aren’t allowing it!!
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So you are saying there has been federal direction on what/when do to this whole time? It seems depending on the thread a handful of posters here are bouncing between....”there is no federal guidance so we shouldn’t be shocked at the chaos in our reopening plan” and then in their next breath saying “blue governors were just trying to execute the federal game plan” but the courts aren’t allowing it!!
Intellectual dishonesty
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Because one county's laissez faire approach to COVID can have negative consequences for surrounding counties.
If the surrounding counties are all locked down the risk from a citizen coming in from a neighboring county that is not as restrictive seems minimal. If businesses are open 5 minutes from my house, not much of a reason to drive 20 mins to a neighboring county to shop, etc.
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So you are saying there has been federal direction on what/when do to this whole time? It seems depending on the thread a handful of posters here are bouncing between....”there is no federal guidance so we shouldn’t be shocked at the chaos in our reopening plan” and then in their next breath saying “blue governors were just trying to execute the federal game plan” but the courts aren’t allowing it!!
The chief executive is incapable of following the guidelines set forth or communicating them, contradicting them at every turn and urging states to open. It’s not complicated to see why there is such confusion.
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If the surrounding counties are all locked down the risk from a citizen coming in from a neighboring county that is not as restrictive seems minimal. If businesses are open 5 minutes from my house, not much of a reason to drive 20 mins to a neighboring county to shop, etc.
One would think. Yet, as we saw this weekend, people were traveling all over the state and pouring in from Illinois.
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Intellectual dishonesty
How so?
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It's kind of interesting in a "this would be more interesting if the world weren't on fire" kind of way to watch the political process evolve so that one side plays by purely Machiavellian game theory rules, and the other just... doesn't. I guess its what would happen if the people in the Prisoner's Dilemma have played the game 1000 times, each time making the same decisions, and only one of the two sides electing to maximize their expected outcome.
Back in Roman times there was a shared set of norms and customs, "mos maiorum," that governed how people interacted with the state, with the powers of the offices they held, with each other, etc. This isn't to say that mos maiorum dictated that people interact selflessly with the state or their powers (plenty, plenty of corruption was expected and even tolerated), but to oversimplify: In order to play the game, you had to abide by the norms of mos maiorum... until the generations that preceded Julius Ceasar's generation. Then a couple of players realized that they could simply... not play by the same rules. For example, one elected office had a universal veto, so they held the government hostage by exercising that veto over everything and fought mob battles in the streets to ensure they held onto that veto. The shared rules that knit the society together started to fray, and a couple generations later were gone entirely.
The problem with looking at Wisconsin's governance is one where we're viewing it through the lens of our own mos maiorum. When we "why aren't they doing what we expect a legislature to do?" or "why is the supreme court as nakedly political as it is?" we're testing the behavior of some of the players of a game who've observed that violating the the mos maiorum rules of the game have no consequence against the expectation that they do abide by those rules.
Bingo. Big problem at all levels of government right now.
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One would think. Yet, as we saw this weekend, people were traveling all over the state and pouring in from Illinois.
Pouring in from lock downed counties into less restrictive ones, so don’t see there really being an issue with that. I’m sure the businesses appreciated the additional butts in seats and revenue.
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One would think. Yet, as we saw this weekend, people were traveling all over the state and pouring in from Illinois.
Prtizker's family have been traveling to WI and FL.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-pritzker-family-whereabouts-20200515-rx5qkabrabg67j3dfkllbowntu-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true (https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-pritzker-family-whereabouts-20200515-rx5qkabrabg67j3dfkllbowntu-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true)
Racine, maybe thsy are visiting jockitch?
Thee, not me, aina.
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Prtizker's family have been traveling to WI and FL.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-pritzker-family-whereabouts-20200515-rx5qkabrabg67j3dfkllbowntu-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true (https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-pritzker-family-whereabouts-20200515-rx5qkabrabg67j3dfkllbowntu-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true)
Racine, maybe thsy are visiting jockitch?
Thee, not me, aina.
He should get taken behind the woodshed.
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He should get taken behind the woodshed.
Make that a barn for his morbidly obese ass.
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Make that a barn for his morbidly obese ass.
Maybe we can get a 2-for-1
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How so?
Because you absolutely know the criticisms have come due to the lack of a coordinated federal/white House response. However, once they did come up with a detailed plan (on re-opening), not only was it not enforced, but it was seriously undermined by the same administration that put forth the plan.
Stop the dishonesty.
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Make that a barn for his morbidly obese ass.
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/98443998_566483354243134_634916584346877952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=o4qNn4ZdLB4AX95WXEx&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=7ce515821adb5fd3a2074479ea26b18a&oe=5EE9C49B)
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His family staying in Florida when they were already there is ok. And I have three friends now who have traveled back from Florida and Arizona, respectively, since late March. I am not on board with going back and forth to Racine though, I’m not sure why that was necessary.
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I don't care about this Pritzker guy one way or the other, but the article states his family was in FL from mid-March until now. Seems like they left prior to the SIP order, so the only problem is that they came back?
That doesn't seem like that big a deal. Hundreds of thousands of people 'went back home' including boatloads of college students/overseas people.
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Because you absolutely know the criticisms have come due to the lack of a coordinated federal/white House response. However, once they did come up with a detailed plan (on re-opening), not only was it not enforced, but it was seriously undermined by the same administration that put forth the plan.
Stop the dishonesty.
I agree that task force switched positions on things several times but this was a bit of a moving target.
Between the first 15 Days to Slow the Spread, with new adjusted guidelines then coming out turning into 30 Days to Slow the Spread which then led to a comprehensive plan with phased approach to opening things back up.
Very little a President or the task force can do from there. States rights take over but the guidelines and daily communication was there, I’d argue it was the daily press conferences that led to a bit of confusion with the over communication.
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Make that a barn for his morbidly obese ass.
So can we take Trump there too? Or are we going to need a bigger barn?
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I agree that task force switched positions on things several times but this was a bit of a moving target.
Between the first 15 Days to Slow the Spread, with new adjusted guidelines then coming out turning into 30 Days to Slow the Spread which then led to a comprehensive plan with phased approach to opening things back up.
Very little a President or the task force can do from there. States rights take over but the guidelines and daily communication was there, I’d argue it was the daily press conferences that led to a bit of confusion with the over communication.
Press conferences + presidential tweets
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I agree that task force switched positions on things several times but this was a bit of a moving target.
Between the first 15 Days to Slow the Spread, with new adjusted guidelines then coming out turning into 30 Days to Slow the Spread which then led to a comprehensive plan with phased approach to opening things back up.
Very little a President or the task force can do from there. States rights take over but the guidelines and daily communication was there, I’d argue it was the daily press conferences that led to a bit of confusion with the over communication.
Moving target? What folks are talking about is this:
On April 16, Trump held a press conference in which he laid out specific guidelines - including specific benchmarks that needed to be reached - for states to re-open their economies. He sounded calm, confident, knowledgeable, and - dare I say it? - darn near presidential. He said it would be up to governors to call their own shots.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-announces-guidelines-opening-america/
On April 17 - less than 24 hours later - he sent out a series of tweets supporting protesters in three states that had not met any of the guidelines. He demanded that the governors of those states "Liberate Michigan!" and "Liberate Minnesota!" and "Liberate Virginia!" He did so even though none of those states had met any of the benchmarks he himself had emphasized just the previous day.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/17/coronavirus-trump-calls-liberate-virginia-michigan-minnesota/5152120002/
Not coincidentally, all three states have Dem governors. He did not send out tweets urging that Ohio and Maryland be liberated even though their Republican governors had almost identical stay-at-home orders in place.
That's more than a president having to deal with a moving target. That's a president pulling a 180, undermining his own message, and doing so for brazenly political reasons.
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Moving target? What folks are talking about is this:
On April 16, Trump held a press conference in which he laid out specific guidelines - including specific benchmarks that needed to be reached - for states to re-open their economies. He sounded calm, confident, knowledgeable, and - dare I say it? - darn near presidential. He said it would be up to governors to call their own shots.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-announces-guidelines-opening-america/
On April 17 - less than 24 hours later - he sent out a series of tweets supporting protesters in three states that had not met any of the guidelines. He demanded that the governors of those states "Liberate Michigan!" and "Liberate Minnesota!" and "Liberate Virginia!" He did so even though none of those states had met any of the benchmarks he himself had emphasized just the previous day.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/17/coronavirus-trump-calls-liberate-virginia-michigan-minnesota/5152120002/
Not coincidentally, all three states have Dem governors. He did not send out tweets urging that Ohio and Maryland be liberated even though their Republican governors had almost identical stay-at-home orders in place.
That's more than a president having to deal with a moving target. That's a president pulling a 180, undermining his own message, and doing so for brazenly political reasons.
Ok we agree those tweets were dumb and 90% of America doesn’t pay attention to them. Glad we also agree that he laid out a good, coherent federal plan on how to safelyreopen.
I imagine from there we also agree there is little they could do to ensure they were followed in each and every state.
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So can we take Trump there too? Or are we going to need a bigger barn
Nah, know room in der wit Nancy and all her mental problems takin' up space, aina?
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I imagine from there we also agree there is little they could do to ensure they were followed in each and every state.
Could he perhaps have waited more than a day before making it clear he didn't believe in the plan his government laid out and undermining it with "LIBERATE" tweets?
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Ok we agree those tweets were dumb and 90% of America doesn’t pay attention to them. Glad we also agree that he laid out a good, coherent federal plan on how to safelyreopen.
I imagine from there we also agree there is little they could do to ensure they were followed in each and every state.
It seems like 43% of Americans pay positive attention to his tweets. They also get covered positively by Fox News where millions tune in to get their info.
To say 90% ignore his tweets and ranting is either ignorant or an outright lie.
And it’s great to have a game plan. It’s stupid to ignore it and do the opposite.
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nm
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It seems like 43% of Americans pay positive attention to his tweets. They also get covered positively by Fox News where millions tune in to get their info.
To say 90% ignore his tweets and ranting is either ignorant or an outright lie.
And it’s great to have a game plan. It’s stupid to ignore it and do the opposite.
So his approval rating are those that only pay attention to and then also approve of his tweets?
Which one of those tweets led to a state altering their plans or what federal recommendation changed after those tweets?
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I absolutely love when Trump supporters try to take shots at the mental state of anybody else in the world. There is not a single person in the world that is more mentally unstable than the person we voted to run our country.
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So his approval rating are those that only pay attention to and then also approve of his tweets?
Which one of those tweets led to a state altering their plans or what federal recommendation changed after those tweets?
Lol really? Are you truly that dense? States like Georgia started to announce plans to open up soon after the “Liberate” tweets. In fact Georgia was so gung ho about it that Trump had to tell him to slow down.
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Which one of those tweets led to a state altering their plans or what federal recommendation changed after those tweets?
Could it have been the LIBERATE tweets? Of maybe the "the cure can't be worse than the disease" tweets? Or possibly the tweet yesterday "REOPEN OUR COUNTRY". Maybe one of the hundreds of others with some variation of these?
I find it seriously hard to believe you are unaware of the dozens if not hundreds of his tweets undermining the plan put forth by his own administration.
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Could it have been the LIBERATE tweets? Of maybe the "the cure can't be worse than the disease" tweets? Or possibly the tweet yesterday "REOPEN OUR COUNTRY". Maybe one of the hundreds of others with some variation of these?
I find it seriously hard to believe you are unaware of the dozens if not hundreds of his tweets undermining the plan put forth by his own administration.
Unaware? Im fully aware but as I said I give them very little attention because they never lead to any sort of policy change. Which is what I'm asking here, did any of these tweets lead to any sort of action?
His tweets and his rhetoric has always been all bark and no bite.
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Could it have been the LIBERATE tweets? Of maybe the "the cure can't be worse than the disease" tweets? Or possibly the tweet yesterday "REOPEN OUR COUNTRY". Maybe one of the hundreds of others with some variation of these?
I find it seriously hard to believe you are unaware of the dozens if not hundreds of his tweets undermining the plan put forth by his own administration.
He's not unaware.
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Unaware? Im fully aware but as I said I give them very little attention because they never lead to any sort of policy change. Which is what I'm asking here, did any of these tweets lead to any sort of action?
Yes, obviously they did. How is this a question? He signaled repeatedly to all his followers, in government and out, that they were to ignore the very guidelines his administration put forth. He had Fox, OAN and 1,500 AM radios stations amplify this message and he encouraged re-open protests around the country.
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Yes, obviously they did. How is this a question? He signaled repeatedly to all his followers, in government and out, that they were to ignore the very guidelines his administration put forth. He had Fox, OAN and 1,500 AM radios stations amplify this message and he encouraged re-open protests around the country.
I’m begging for an example and all you’ve come up with is Georgia who blatantly went against what he asked them to do.
But if you say so then I believe you.
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Prtizker's family have been traveling to WI and FL.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-pritzker-family-whereabouts-20200515-rx5qkabrabg67j3dfkllbowntu-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true (https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-pritzker-family-whereabouts-20200515-rx5qkabrabg67j3dfkllbowntu-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true)
Racine, maybe thsy are visiting jockitch?
Thee, not me, aina.
Interesting, I can verify from personal experience that MK’s ‘farm’ was literally on the north side of state line road in Bristol. That was back in 2017.
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Ok we agree those tweets were dumb and 90% of America doesn’t pay attention to them. Glad we also agree that he laid out a good, coherent federal plan on how to safelyreopen.
I imagine from there we also agree there is little they could do to ensure they were followed in each and every state.
I hope you didn't get hurt bending yourself into a pretzel to come up with this "logic."
Amazing how willing some are to be conned by the Charlatan In Chief.
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Aaaand we're back to sheltering this thread in place for a while.
Wisconsin, people.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/05/20/coronavirus-wisconsin-state-again-reports-record-number-covid-19-cases/5227624002/
528 new cases in WI today .. new record increase.
It kinda boggles the mind that when WI had 33 (active) cases the state decided to close down. Fast forward 75 days and WI has 5,200 active cases and we're open.
(* Yes, probably more than 33 and 5200, the point remains.)
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Yup, crisis averted! Back to work you lazy fear mongers!
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Yup, crisis averted! Back to work, peasantsyou lazy fear mongers!
FTFY
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Wisconsin is testing ~6k people per day compared to Illinois ~20k tests per day. What's the hold-up?
Edit: Nevermind, just saw that IL is now #1 testing per capita. That may be an unfair comparison. WI is top 20.
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A federal lawsuit was filed Wednesday against City of Racine Public Health Administrator Dottie-Kay Bowersox, and 20 other Wisconsin officials, alleging that locally mandated Safer at Home orders are unconstitutional.
And of course it is no surprise that this effort is being driven by "religion". 95,000? Why stop there? Let's kill us some more people.
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Here's the lawsuit text:
https://issuu.com/communicatornews/docs/filed_federal_complaint_vs_local_shutdown_extensio
If I'm not mistaken, all of these emergency health rules have expired, or will expire in the next few days.
It's just .. flabbergasting that there are humans in this world with nothing better to do than bring a lawsuit like this.
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Here's the lawsuit text:
https://issuu.com/communicatornews/docs/filed_federal_complaint_vs_local_shutdown_extensio
If I'm not mistaken, all of these emergency health rules have expired, or will expire in the next few days.
It's just .. flabbergasting that there are humans in this world with nothing better to do than bring a lawsuit like this.
You must be new to this country. I shall call you Balki.
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Here's the lawsuit text:
https://issuu.com/communicatornews/docs/filed_federal_complaint_vs_local_shutdown_extensio
If I'm not mistaken, all of these emergency health rules have expired, or will expire in the next few days.
It's just .. flabbergasting that there are humans in this world with nothing better to do than bring a lawsuit like this.
Give NPR a listen when they have average people calling in about the law. It's eye opening, and I don't know how lawyers deal with people on a daily basis.
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A federal lawsuit was filed Wednesday against City of Racine Public Health Administrator Dottie-Kay Bowersox, and 20 other Wisconsin officials, alleging that locally mandated Safer at Home orders are unconstitutional.
And of course it is no surprise that this effort is being driven by "religion". 95,000? Why stop there? Let's kill us some more people.
The lawsuits are ridiculous but Wisconsin isn't in the top half of states in either confirmed cases or deaths. Under 500 deaths to date, lets call it under 600 giving a generous 20% bump for undercounting. There is plenty of testing being done as alluded to a few points before, hospitals are nowhere near stretched or overrun during this time.
To continue to frame people that want to reopen and restart some semblance of their lives in a place like Wisconsin as callous and murderous is completely slanted and disingenuous. There has been a successful 2 month lockdown. Not every place can and will be as disastrous as NY.
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The lawsuits are ridiculous but Wisconsin isn't in the top half of states in either confirmed cases or deaths. Under 500 deaths to date, lets call it under 600 giving a generous 20% bump for undercounting. There is plenty of testing being done as alluded to a few points before, hospitals are nowhere near stretched or overrun during this time.
To continue to frame people that want to reopen and restart some semblance of their lives in a place like Wisconsin as callous and murderous is completely slanted and disingenuous. There has been a successful 2 month lockdown. Not every place can and will be as disastrous as NY.
Wags, the lawsuit was filed against the order in Racine. Racine currently ranks in the top 10 in the country for new cases per capita. But you're right. It won't be as bad here as in NY.
It's also being filed due to religious persecution. I guess that is a thing now that we have a Godly man in the oval Office.
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The lawsuits are ridiculous but Wisconsin isn't in the top half of states in either confirmed cases or deaths. Under 500 deaths to date, lets call it under 600 giving a generous 20% bump for undercounting. There is plenty of testing being done as alluded to a few points before, hospitals are nowhere near stretched or overrun during this time.
To continue to frame people that want to reopen and restart some semblance of their lives in a place like Wisconsin as callous and murderous is completely slanted and disingenuous. There has been a successful 2 month lockdown. Not every place can and will be as disastrous as NY.
I think we can agree here. The issue is that we seem to be opening the dam full rather than a slow roll out. We can open safely with the understanding that if the rules aren't followed and our hospitals start to fill up we may have to close again. Personally, I'd hope that'd be enough to convince people to be responsible with this so we don't have to go back to SIP again... but that's just hope, people are kinda dumb.
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You must be new to this country. I shall call you Balki.
80's reference, nice.
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To continue to frame people that want to reopen and restart some semblance of their lives in a place like Wisconsin as callous and murderous is completely slanted and disingenuous. There has been a successful 2 month lockdown. Not every place can and will be as disastrous as NY.
How about callous and reckless?
Everybody wants to open up and every state - at least that I'm aware of - is in the process of doing so. The issues in most places regard at what pace and with what precautions. Wisconsin, on the other hand, decided to go from zero to 60 in an instant.
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How about callous and reckless?
Everybody wants to open up and every state - at least that I'm aware of - is in the process of doing so. The issues in most places regard at what pace and with what precautions. Wisconsin, on the other hand, decided to go from zero to 60 in an instant.
Sure, but it’s not just a Wisconsin thing. It’s a prevailing sentiment nationwide. Plenty of people are reacting to opening back up, even in phased approaches, as welcoming death.
Wisconsin has bundled this totally across the board, there is no denying that. But there is a difference between people being a bit too exuberant and possibly rushing towards normalcy in a reckless way, and flat out implying they don’t give a damn about others or happily accept more deaths if it means they can go to church/go to the salon/go to the bar. It’s the politicizing again. There are shades of grey to this, not everyone that expresses something that trends away from your viewpoint is a socialist libtard or greedy MAGA science denier moron
People calling for lockdowns until we have a cure, screaming your business isn’t more important than saving even 1 life, those telling people to prepare not to fly got 18-24 months...those people suck. A**holes protesting at the capital with M-16s, filing stupid lawsuits, going viral cause they are fighting with store managers cause they refuse to wear a mask....those people suck. But in between, there are a variety of people with different opinions colored by personal experiences who want to proceed or assess risk in a different way due to their unique situation. Painting them with the same broad brush as the fringe groups I mentioned is assuredly asking for further division which is a bigger threat to a COVID progress than the disease itself.
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Here's the lawsuit text:
https://issuu.com/communicatornews/docs/filed_federal_complaint_vs_local_shutdown_extensio
If I'm not mistaken, all of these emergency health rules have expired, or will expire in the next few days.
It's just .. flabbergasting that there are humans in this world with nothing better to do than bring a lawsuit like this.
Huh, could have SWORN I commented on this but I don't see it. If so, sorry for the double post.
Look at the attorney who signed the complaint. Google his pathway from JAG to Judge to Private Practice. Pay special attention to the way his time on the bench ended.
This law suit is, not to put too fine a point on it, an audition for a very specific kind of role with a very specific kind (or type) of organization. Not a real effort to secure substantive relief for the named plaintiffs.
If/when beers before games become a thing again, find me and ask about litigating in his courtroom. I've got at least one good one and would be willing to bet anyone who spent time in the trenches in Ozaukee have more. Probably not the share on an open forum kind of story, but still...
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Wags, the lawsuit was filed against the order in Racine. Racine currently ranks in the top 10 in the country for new cases per capita. But you're right. It won't be as bad here as in NY.
It's also being filed due to religious persecution. I guess that is a thing now that we have a Godly man in the oval Office.
Imma guessing that you donate to the Freedom From Religion foundation.
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(https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/98335824_1580613958768775_168005136206004224_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=wJqdLdjM2WAAX8HAUd9&_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-1.xx&oh=041abe46af078bd47dc2068790989096&oe=5EEB7F30)
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Sure, but it’s not just a Wisconsin thing. It’s a prevailing sentiment nationwide. Plenty of people are reacting to opening back up, even in phased approaches, as welcoming death.
Wisconsin has bundled this totally across the board, there is no denying that. But there is a difference between people being a bit too exuberant and possibly rushing towards normalcy in a reckless way, and flat out implying they don’t give a damn about others or happily accept more deaths if it means they can go to church/go to the salon/go to the bar. It’s the politicizing again. There are shades of grey to this, not everyone that expresses something that trends away from your viewpoint is a socialist libtard or greedy MAGA science denier moron
People calling for lockdowns until we have a cure, screaming your business isn’t more important than saving even 1 life, those telling people to prepare not to fly got 18-24 months...those people suck. A**holes protesting at the capital with M-16s, filing stupid lawsuits, going viral cause they are fighting with store managers cause they refuse to wear a mask....those people suck. But in between, there are a variety of people with different opinions colored by personal experiences who want to proceed or assess risk in a different way due to their unique situation. Painting them with the same broad brush as the fringe groups I mentioned is assuredly asking for further division which is a bigger threat to a COVID progress than the disease itself.
Well said.
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The lawsuits are ridiculous but Wisconsin isn't in the top half of states in either confirmed cases or deaths. Under 500 deaths to date, lets call it under 600 giving a generous 20% bump for undercounting. There is plenty of testing being done as alluded to a few points before, hospitals are nowhere near stretched or overrun during this time.
To continue to frame people that want to reopen and restart some semblance of their lives in a place like Wisconsin as callous and murderous is completely slanted and disingenuous. There has been a successful 2 month lockdown. Not every place can and will be as disastrous as NY.
I agree that we need to start opening things back up again, but I also think it is pretty clear that many businesses have no regard for their employees.
At least 32 workers at the Amazon campus in Kenosha have contracted coronavirus in the past two months, according to messages sent to employees and shared with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
Amazon officials have not fully cooperated with public health workers trying to track cases, inform workers who might be at risk or offering testing and other safety measures, said Jen Freiheit, health officer for Kenosha County. “We’re at the point now that since we’re not getting that, we’re going to look into what other measures we can take for Amazon, because we are not getting as far with compliance as we would like,” Freiheit said. If Amazon officials do not cooperate with health officials, Freiheit said she would consider attempting to shut down the Kenosha facilities.
Meat packing plants have been much worse than Amazon. Some have said they will not start testing until 10% of the workforce has contracted Covid. Others are forcing workers to come back without supplying proper PPE.
So while it would be nice if we could open quicker, much of Corporate America will do little to ensure the safety of their people.
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Imma guessing that you donate to the Freedom From Religion foundation.
Why would I do that?
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Poll after poll after poll show that Americans surveyed are not ready to throw the country back open, and they support their governors who haven’t done so. Most of the polls haven’t been close.
The latest, from Michigan, shows overwhelming support for Whitmer’s handling of the pandemic. They say the protests do not have wide support at all. The only group that thinks differently is Republican men. Dems, Independents and GOP women are on board.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/05/20/republican-men-views-coronavirus/5227671002/
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After yesterday's new record for cases .. today's numbers are down slightly to 3rd highest case increase.
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After yesterday's new record for cases .. today's numbers are down slightly to 3rd highest case increase.
also had almost 9000 tests so back down to 6% positive
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Give NPR a listen when they have average people calling in about the law. It's eye opening, and I don't know how lawyers deal with people on a daily basis.
Cary Grant in "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House" summed it all up:
Jim Blandings: (On the phone with his attorney) Mr. William Cole, please. Hello, Bill. They can't get away with this! I know my rights as a citizen. Why, this notice from the owner of this building. He wants our apartment. He's ordering us to move in thirty days. Well, that's ridiculous! How can I move into a house that isn't even finished? There are no windows, no plaster, no paint. Now you listen to me: I have no intention of moving in thirty days. This is not legal! I'm going to fight this thing and I don't care if it takes every penny I've got! Yeah. Yeah. Yeah!
Muriel Blandings: Well?
Jim Blandings: We're moving in thirty days.
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Cary Grant in "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House" sumd it all up"
Jim Blandings: Mr. William Cole, please. Hello, Bill. They can't get away with this! I know my rights as a citizen. Why, this notice from the owner of this building. He wants our apartment. He's ordering us to move in thirty days. Well, that's ridiculous! How can I move into a house that isn't even finished? There are no windows, no plaster, no paint. Now you listen to me: I have no intention of moving in thirty days. This is not legal! I'm going to fight this thing and I don't care if it takes every penny I've got! Yeah. Yeah. Yeah!
Muriel Blandings: Well?
Jim Blandings: We're moving in thirty days.
Not bad... except for the part where Jim Blandings listens to his lawyer.
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Once you tell them the fee and ask for the retainer its usually
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/f1/b7/3d/f1b73d76872a7267f691738c6621c7d9--gilda-radner-funny-people.jpg)
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Poll after poll after poll show that Americans surveyed are not ready to throw the country back open, and they support their governors who haven’t done so. Most of the polls haven’t been close.
The latest, from Michigan, shows overwhelming support for Whitmer’s handling of the pandemic. They say the protests do not have wide support at all. The only group that thinks differently is Republican men. Dems, Independents and GOP women are on board.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/05/20/republican-men-views-coronavirus/5227671002/
So why are those same governors opening their states back up if everyone is against it?
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So why are those same governors opening their states back up if everyone is against it?
First, I didn't say "everyone is against it." Have some intellectual honesty if you want to discuss this. I said that polls have consistently shown a majority of Americans do not want their states thrown back open. We're talking 60% to 75%. That's not "everyone," but it is statistically significant.
As far as why the governors are doing it, I haven't seen any of them quoted as, "I know our residents are against this, according to the polling, but I'm opening the state and here's why" ... so all I can do is make guesses based on what I've read about various situations.
Some don't care about the polls and are forcing their view of what's right down their constituents' throats: "You don't know what's good for you, but I do."
Some are feeling intense pressure from the bad economy ravaging their states and feel they have no other choice despite what a majority of their constituents might want.
Some are being pressured by the major corporate chiefs in their states, or maybe by members of their congressional delegation (or both).
Some know they simply have to open up their economies and they are trying to do so slowly and by following the recommendations of experts in the field.
Some are Trump sycophants and are doing what he wants them to do.
And none of the above is mutually exclusive. Perhaps several governors are going through 2 or 3 of the above.
Leaders have to do what they think is best, regardless of what polls say. That's one of the things that make it a tough job.
I quoted the polls because there are many folks who think it's a no-brainer to re-open the states. Some actually believe that the extremely small number of protesters represent the thoughts of the majority of people in those states. Obviously, they don't, given the polling.
Even if one doesn't consider polls to be the be-all and end-all (and I don't), 60% to 75% ... those are pretty big numbers, and they have been consistent.
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Slowly. With a plan based on data and science. With adjustments when necessary.
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Went to get my haircut yesterday. Impressed with the masking (all employees and customers) and the disinfection procedures. Was within six feet of a lot of people though.
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Slowly. With a plan based on data and science. With adjustments when necessary.
To me, that is what the governors who really care about their citizens are doing.
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Hey, Dane Co is opening up in phase 1 of their plan on tuesday.
Magically, that is the same date of Evers' unconstitutional stay at home order said things could open. Because, science.
(Wonder how the health dept can forecast what their 9 scores criteria look like on tuesday.)
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Hey, Dane Co is opening up in phase 1 of their plan on tuesday.
Magically, that is the same date of Evers' unconstitutional stay at home order said things could open. Because, science.
(Wonder how the health dept can forecast what their 9 scores criteria look like on tuesday.)
Wait until they try to enforce 4. d. ii.
It'll get challenged and thrown out. Can't force businesses to mask employees, and not force public to mask as well.
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Went to get my haircut yesterday. Impressed with the masking (all employees and customers) and the disinfection procedures. Was within six feet of a lot of people though.
What is so magical about 6 ft.? Factually, that number means absolutely nothing. Whether you are 3, 6, 12, 24 ft. etc, is irrelevant when someone's sneeze travels 50+ft.
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511 new cases, a new #2 biggest day. .. 4 of the last 7 days have been in the top 5 ..
Sure seems like a high probability that "opening up" 10 days ago set the exact wheels in motion that math would expect.
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Time to put your toes in the water. No guarantees in life and you can't shut down for 9 months, in spite of the gov's wishes, hey?
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I don’t know what the source was so I have no idea how close to accurate it is, but Matt Norlander said he read an article that stated the US is at about 100K deaths due to covid right now and if we had started social distancing and safer in place just one week earlier we would be around 20K deaths instead. If that’s even remotely close to true, opening up too early/without a real plan could be devastating.
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::)
511 new cases, a new #2 biggest day. .. 4 of the last 7 days have been in the top 5 ..
Sure seems like a high probability that "opening up" 10 days ago set the exact wheels in motion that math would expect.
Or the much higher testing rate
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Time to put your toes in the water. No guarantees in life and you can't shut down for 9 months, in spite of the gov's wishes, hey?
These may not be the only two options.
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I'm waitin' on negative interest rates. Oh, the inflation, hey?
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Time to put your toes in the water. No guarantees in life and you can't shut down for 9 months, in spite of the gov's wishes, hey?
Nope. Governor didn't wish that. But I guess if you have to exaggerate....
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Are you black?
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Are you black?
Exaggerate...or change the subject....
The fact is the economy sucks because of the virus. Not because of the governors.
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Time to put your toes in the water. No guarantees in life and you can't shut down for 9 months, in spite of the gov's wishes, hey?
That's what the bots say.
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I'm waitin' on negative interest rates. Oh, the inflation, hey?
Buy Bitcoin
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511 new cases, a new #2 biggest day. .. 4 of the last 7 days have been in the top 5 ..
Sure seems like a high probability that "opening up" 10 days ago set the exact wheels in motion that math would expect.
Stop looking at total cases and look at the percentage. WI had almost 10,000 tests come back today that is a good thing we are testing a lot more people but the percent positive has not gone up
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Stop looking at total cases and look at the percentage. WI had almost 10,000 tests come back today that is a good thing we are testing a lot more people but the percent positive has not gone up
It went up today. And, if I'm not mistaken, it's not the first time this week.
Just a little, but given what we're seeing elsewhere, anything upward is bad. Could be just an anomaly, of course. We'll see.
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Stop looking at total cases and look at the percentage. WI had almost 10,000 tests come back today that is a good thing we are testing a lot more people but the percent positive has not gone up
All that means is that there were undetected cases before. You seem to be following the advice of less tests would mean less cases. Not at all accurate.
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Are you black?
?
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Exaggerate...or change the subject....
The fact is the economy sucks because of the virus. Not because of the governors.
Nor the president, aina?
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Nor the president, aina?
Well, the president certainly didn't help in preventing the rapid spread of the virus around this country.
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Nor the president, aina?
We can enter into a different never ending debate about exactly how much power a president has over the economy and some people will see both sides and never agree. Wherever you happen to come down on that debate, I think it can be agreed upon that the president has more power over the economy than any of the 50 governors.
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Nor the president, aina?
I have never blamed the President for the current state of the economy. He can be blamed for the many ways he has screwed this up, and continues to do so, but the economy is a brproduct of the pandemic.
I went to go pick up food last night at a place that would usually be packed on a Friday. It was open for dining, staff wearing masks, tables six feet apart. And there were two or three tables full. No matter how much you open things back up, a large part of the society is going to say "we're good" and stay home.
I'm headed to the food store in an hour or so. After that I probably won't be going anywhere the rest of the weekend. My gym membership is on hold until September. There are countless ways we have cut back because we don't have much desire to hang out with a bunch of other people. I doubt we are alone.
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Stop looking at total cases and look at the percentage. WI had almost 10,000 tests come back today that is a good thing we are testing a lot more people but the percent positive has not gone up
Sort of a bad metric. You can test people who have no symptoms and haven't come into contact with the infected, and it will drive the % positive down. Or you can test only the people showing symptoms and the number goes up.
Now, if we tested every person every day, it would be an amazing metric. But we're not there yet, so its a meaningless number that can be manipulated at will.
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I have never blamed the President for the current state of the economy. He can be blamed for the many ways he has screwed this up, and continues to do so, but the economy is a brproduct of the pandemic.
I went to go pick up food last night at a place that would usually be packed on a Friday. It was open for dining, staff wearing masks, tables six feet apart. And there were two or three tables full. No matter how much you open things back up, a large part of the society is going to say "we're good" and stay home.
I'm headed to the food store in an hour or so. After that I probably won't be going anywhere the rest of the weekend. My gym membership is on hold until September. There are countless ways we have cut back because we don't have much desire to hang out with a bunch of other people. I doubt we are alone.
I partially agree but when you see unemployment in Germany and South Korea only increased 1% you realize it was handled badly here comparatively.
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511 new cases, a new #2 biggest day. .. 4 of the last 7 days have been in the top 5 ..
Sure seems like a high probability that "opening up" 10 days ago set the exact wheels in motion that math would expect.
Too early to tell, these are test results coming back on people who wouldn't have been infected "post-open up". This up tick could represent the start of the sleigh ride to hell or it could be representative of higher volume of testing, testing of early symptom and/or asymptomatic (MKE, Madison, etc have started no questions asked testing over the last 2 weeks so we aren't just testing the sickest now).
Numbers won't tell the tale until mid-next week and we won't really have a clear picture until the weekend.
The problem is we have such a low level of data literacy within this country we can't have a science based discussion.
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I don’t know what the source was so I have no idea how close to accurate it is, but Matt Norlander said he read an article that stated the US is at about 100K deaths due to covid right now and if we had started social distancing and safer in place just one week earlier we would be around 20K deaths instead. If that’s even remotely close to true, opening up too early/without a real plan could be devastating.
I read that study, its fundamentally flawed because it doesn't account for actions taken post shut down. Things like Pennsylvania and New York shoving infected Covid patients back into long term care facilities where the most vulnerable were.
Also the majority of the deaths were in the densest populations, where spread was going to happen
Bottom line, shutting down a week earlier would have saved lives but there is no way its 5x.....I'd say we might have cut it in half, still worthy but it's almost worthless because as a country we just weren't there til Rudy Goebert happened
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Looking at the numbers it is hard not to notice how well Wisconsin is doing compared to its neighbors. I wonder if a lot of the big push from the GOP to attack the governor, and force an opening is due to the fact that the plan is working. And lives are being saved, and they will be able to show the numbers compared to neighboring states to prove it.
If they force a reopen, and numbers ramp up to comparable levels of the neighbors, the GOP can, and will say...look, we shut down and ended up just as bad as our neighbors.
Really disgusting effort from the WH down in setting up protests, and lawsuits galore to force a Wisconsin opening.
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I partially agree but when you see unemployment in Germany and South Korea only increased 1% you realize it was handled badly here comparatively.
Right but that was a bi partisan thing. That’s just the way we do unemployment here.
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Looking at the numbers it is hard not to notice how well Wisconsin is doing compared to its neighbors. I wonder if a lot of the big push from the GOP to attack the governor, and force an opening is due to the fact that the plan is working. And lives are being saved, and they will be able to show the numbers compared to neighboring states to prove it.
If they force a reopen, and numbers ramp up to comparable levels of the neighbors, the GOP can, and will say...look, we shut down and ended up just as bad as our neighbors.
Really disgusting effort from the WH down in setting up protests, and lawsuits galore to force a Wisconsin opening.
My worry is in smaller and rural communities here in Wisconsin. I see lots and lots of people wearing masks. I see businesses observing social distancing. I don't know if that will be the case in communities up north as people start to venture out and travel. Those are also all republican strongholds who get their info from 2 sources - Trump and Fox News. Too many of them still think this is just a made-up thing to get Trump. Heck, we've still got a people on Scoop who think this way.
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Just got off my COVID week, so here are some of my thoughts
1. I've stopped following testing data and am watching the hospitalizations more. The total tests is getting a lot of the milder cases, which is great, but not reflecting stress on the health systems. Hospitalizations are up over 400 this week, which was the most since April 14. That being said, ICU isn't near where it was at its peak. That kind of follows what we've been seeing. Cases aren't as "severe," for some reason. I haven't seen a patient that was intubated or post intubation in about 3 weeks. People are still passing away; most of them have DNRs already for severe co-morbidities.
2. Remdesivir has been effective for us, although I guess there is a new study that shows it isn't effective.
3. The best thing we can do is just assume everyone has it now until July 4th. Social distance yourself, wear a mask indoors and outdoors when you can't distance. Whatever business can open, hopefully following these protocols and then re-assess on July 4th.
I can't quote 4ever, but most studies I've read say COVID travels on smaller droplets, not on coughs or sneezes. Talking and breathing is bad.
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So we just stop breathing and we’ll be okay? ;D
Any idea why the hospital cases are having better outcomes or at least less ICU cases?
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Just got off my COVID week, so here are some of my thoughts
That being said, ICU isn't near where it was at its peak. That kind of follows what we've been seeing. Cases aren't as "severe," for some reason. I haven't seen a patient that was intubated or post intubation in about 3 weeks.
Thanks for the great info. One thing regarding this, there are two reasons this could be the case.
1. People are using masks and social distancing, neither are 100% effective. It is possible that those measures are reducing viral dose at exposure, leading to less case severity.
2. Summer is rolling in. We do have physiological changes with the seasons, this includes in how our immune system responds to various illnesses. In some cases that makes us more susceptible to illness, in other cases less. We may be seeing the latter playing a role here. Obviously, we have no data on this virus as it is brand new, so completely an educated guess.
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Just got off my COVID week, so here are some of my thoughts
1. I've stopped following testing data and am watching the hospitalizations more. The total tests is getting a lot of the milder cases, which is great, but not reflecting stress on the health systems. Hospitalizations are up over 400 this week, which was the most since April 14. That being said, ICU isn't near where it was at its peak. That kind of follows what we've been seeing. Cases aren't as "severe," for some reason. I haven't seen a patient that was intubated or post intubation in about 3 weeks. People are still passing away; most of them have DNRs already for severe co-morbidities.
2. Remdesivir has been effective for us, although I guess there is a new study that shows it isn't effective.
3. The best thing we can do is just assume everyone has it now until July 4th. Social distance yourself, wear a mask indoors and outdoors when you can't distance. Whatever business can open, hopefully following these protocols and then re-assess on July 4th.
I can't quote 4ever, but most studies I've read say COVID travels on smaller droplets, not on coughs or sneezes. Talking and breathing is bad.
Thanks for the info, DPT.
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Thanks for the great info. One thing regarding this, there are two reasons this could be the case.
1. People are using masks and social distancing, neither are 100% effective. It is possible that those measures are reducing viral dose at exposure, leading to less case severity.
2. Summer is rolling in. We do have physiological changes with the seasons, this includes in how our immune system responds to various illnesses. In some cases that makes us more susceptible to illness, in other cases less. We may be seeing the latter playing a role here. Obviously, we have no data on this virus as it is brand new, so completely an educated guess.
Several other reasons(its probably a combination of a lot of factors really)
3. Our interventions have gotten smarter/more targeted. Early intebation turned out to be a real killer, a lot more patients are prone for part of their treatment, anti viral meds, etc
4. The most at risk are a lot more sheltered now, so those who are hospitalized are theoretically baseline healthier than those in the "early days"
5. The virus is evolving and most viruses become less deadly with each evolution
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My worry is in smaller and rural communities here in Wisconsin. I see lots and lots of people wearing masks. I see businesses observing social distancing. I don't know if that will be the case in communities up north as people start to venture out and travel. Those are also all republican strongholds who get their info from 2 sources - Trump and Fox News. Too many of them still think this is just a made-up thing to get Trump. Heck, we've still got a people on Scoop who think this way.
what a moronic statement, but considering the source, it's probably the best he can do...wow!
this is exhibit "A" of why many of us have to try to keep our distancing from this site. this is also how "you guys" narrow the discussion down to, well, "you guys"
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what a moronic statement, but considering the source, it's probably the best he can do...wow!
this is exhibit "A" of why many of us have to try to keep our distancing from this site. this is also how "you guys" narrow the discussion down to, well, "you guys"
Amen. I pretty much check in once a day to read what is the latest insane take by the 5-6 posters who seem to be losing their minds.
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what a moronic statement, but considering the source, it's probably the best he can do...wow!
this is exhibit "A" of why many of us have to try to keep our distancing from this site. this is also how "you guys" narrow the discussion down to, well, "you guys"
Would mind answering the questions I asked of you a while ago?
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what a moronic statement, but considering the source, it's probably the best he can do...wow!
this is exhibit "A" of why many of us have to try to keep our distancing from this site. this is also how "you guys" narrow the discussion down to, well, "you guys"
Wow. Too bad we are missing out on your OANish opinions and keen insights written in barely legible English.
Whatever. Will. We. Do.
We get it. You’re doing what you can to justify how you’ll pull the lever in November. No one is really surprised at the lack of responsibility and standards.
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what a moronic statement, but considering the source, it's probably the best he can do...wow!
this is exhibit "A" of why many of us have to try to keep our distancing from this site. this is also how "you guys" narrow the discussion down to, well, "you guys"
When you have the head of the GOP in one of the largest districts in Texas say the coronavirus is a hoax, the son of POTUS saying the same thing, and public polls of conservatives echoing this messaging, what is truly moronic?
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When you have the head of the GOP in one of the largest districts in Texas say the coronavirus is a hoax, the son of POTUS saying the same thing, and public polls of conservatives echoing this messaging, what is truly moronic?
More than 40% of Republicans think Bill Gates will use a COVID-19 vaccine to implant a location-tracking microchip in recipients, according to survey
https://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-bill-gates-covid-19-vaccine-tracking-microchip-study-2020-5
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More than 40% of Republicans think Bill Gates will use a COVID-19 vaccine to implant a location-tracking microchip in recipients, according to survey
https://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-bill-gates-covid-19-vaccine-tracking-microchip-study-2020-5
32% of democrats support having an abortion up til the day before a baby is delivered. What’s your point.
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More than 40% of Republicans think Bill Gates will use a COVID-19 vaccine to implant a location-tracking microchip in recipients, according to survey
https://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-bill-gates-covid-19-vaccine-tracking-microchip-study-2020-5
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32% of democrats support having an abortion up til the day before a baby is delivered. What’s your point.
Cite?
And mine is topical. It is specifically about the COVID pandemic.
Great use of #whataboutism!
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32% of democrats support having an abortion up til the day before a baby is delivered. What’s your point.
Unless you want to be labeled as another of Cheeks' sockpuppets, you probably should stay away from such wildly irrelevant talking points.
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Cite?
And mine is topical. It is specifically about the COVID pandemic.
Great use of #whataboutism!
Pretty much all they have.
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More than 40% of Republicans think Bill Gates will use a COVID-19 vaccine to implant a location-tracking microchip in recipients, according to survey
https://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-bill-gates-covid-19-vaccine-tracking-microchip-study-2020-5
I’m sure a most trustworthy and unbias poll, without any agenda of course. I know the liberal news rag Yahoo News and You Gov are go to places to keep ones tabs on the pulse of public opinion.
If you believe this poll, you’re dumber than the conspiracy theory it’s polling about.
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Unless you want to be labeled as another of Cheeks' sockpuppets, you probably should stay away from such wildly irrelevant talking points.
You think I give two craps what you want to label me as?
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I’m sure a most trustworthy and unbias poll, without any agenda of course. I know the liberal news rag Yahoo News and You Gov are go to places to keep ones pulse on public opinion.
Then you must absolutely love the latest Fox News poll in which prospective voters trust Biden to do a better job than Trump on health care by 17 points, coronavirus by 9, and relations with China by 6 ... which explains why Biden leads Trump by 48% to 40% "in the 2020 ballot test."
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-biden-more-trusted-on-coronavirus-trump-on-economy
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You think I give two craps what you want to label me as?
Not until this response. Now I'm sure of it.
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Then you must absolutely love the latest Fox News poll in which prospective voters trust Biden to do a better job than Trump on health care by 17 points, coronavirus by 9, and relations with China by 6 ... which explains why Biden leads Trump by 48% to 40% "in the 2020 ballot test."
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-biden-more-trusted-on-coronavirus-trump-on-economy
Yeah, all presidential polling is to be taken with a grain of salt this far from Election Day. The polls up to Election Day 2016 were wildly wrong. Trump underpoll significantly.
But enjoy the warm fuzzies you’re getting from this poll. Joe Biden can’t put a coherent thought together and his gaffes are just going to get more and more wild if the Democrats are dumb enough to keep him as their candidate. He isn’t beating Trump
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Yeah, all presidential polling is to be taken with a grain of salt this far from Election Day. The polls up to Election Day 2016 were wildly wrong. Trump underpoll significantly.
But enjoy the warm fuzzies you’re getting from this poll. Joe Biden can’t put a coherent thought together and his gaffes are just going to get more and more wild if the Democrats are dumb enough to keep him as their candidate. He isn’t beating Trump
Since when does not having coherent thoughts disqualify you from being president?
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Looking at the numbers it is hard not to notice how well Wisconsin is doing compared to its neighbors. I wonder if a lot of the big push from the GOP to attack the governor, and force an opening is due to the fact that the plan is working. And lives are being saved, and they will be able to show the numbers compared to neighboring states to prove it.
If they force a reopen, and numbers ramp up to comparable levels of the neighbors, the GOP can, and will say...look, we shut down and ended up just as bad as our neighbors.
Really disgusting effort from the WH down in setting up protests, and lawsuits galore to force a Wisconsin opening.
You really believe this??
And for the record, any reopening is going to involve positives going up, because more people are in circulation. Unless you are advocating for close until cure/vaccine, any form of opening up will result in more positives and more deaths....as long as we don't overwhelm the hospital systems that's just gonna be part of the deal I'm afraid
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Not until this response. Now I'm sure of it.
Shocking
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You really believe this??
And for the record, any reopening is going to involve positives going up, because more people are in circulation. Unless you are advocating for close until cure/vaccine, any form of opening up will result in more positives and more deaths....as long as we don't overwhelm the hospital systems that's just gonna be part of the deal I'm afraid
Well said as always.
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Amen. I pretty much check in once a day to read what is the latest insane take by the 5-6 posters who seem to be losing their minds.
Agree completely. I would just take out “seem to be...”
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Agree completely. I would just take out “seem to be...”
Agreeing with the “yeah but abortion” guy is not really a sound intellectual position to take.
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Looking at the numbers it is hard not to notice how well Wisconsin is doing compared to its neighbors. I wonder if a lot of the big push from the GOP to attack the governor, and force an opening is due to the fact that the plan is working. And lives are being saved, and they will be able to show the numbers compared to neighboring states to prove it.
If they force a reopen, and numbers ramp up to comparable levels of the neighbors, the GOP can, and will say...look, we shut down and ended up just as bad as our neighbors.
Really disgusting effort from the WH down in setting up protests, and lawsuits galore to force a Wisconsin opening.
Forgetful
I appreciate your contributions to all the COVID threads but this one is misplaced - it belongs in the one for conspiracy theories.
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Shocking
Guy who doesn't care keeps replying to show everyone knows how little he cares.
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Forgetful
I appreciate your contributions to all the COVID threads but this one is misplaced - it belongs in the one for conspiracy theories.
Thank you for the kind words.
Honestly, I considered prefacing this with conspiracy theory alert, also just having a rough day, got some bad news about a former colleague, and I think it is making me quite cynical today.
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Guy who doesn't care keeps replying to show everyone knows how little he cares.
Guy??
Still don’t
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Joe Biden can’t put a coherent thought together
This confuses me since the Gipper was the poster boy for dementia and yet guys like Hutch want to put him on Mt Rushmore.
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This confuses me since the Gipper was the poster boy for dementia and yet guys like Hutch want to put him on Mt Rushmore.
I know, grasping for a what about is all there is to try and cover for Joe its become so obvious.
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I know, grasping for a what about is all there is to try and cover for Joe its become so obvious.
Not sure I'm translating correctly but election isn't about Joe. its about removing a cancer. Joe's just the vehicle.
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Not sure I'm translating correctly but election isn't about Joe. its about removing a cancer. Joe's just the vehicle.
So anyone with a pulse will do. Thanks for confirming that lefties stand for nothing except hating Trump. That’s really good for America.
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So anyone with a pulse will do. Thanks for confirming that lefties stand for nothing except hating Trump. That’s really good for America.
Don't speak for the lefties but I'm definitely excited and enthusiastic about hating Trump. And I suspect so are lots of other people. Better put your big boy pants on and suppress the vote or you will be back to whining about Benghazi and tan suits while watching the adults run things.
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Don't speak for the lefties but I'm definitely excited and enthusiastic about hating Trump. And I suspect so are lots of other people. Better put your big boy pants on and suppress the vote or you will be back to whining about Benghazi and tan suits while watching the adults run things.
I’m supposed to put on big boy pants. That’s rich coming from a Trump hater that hasn’t let go of their temper tantrum from the night he was elected.
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I’m supposed to put on big boy pants. That’s rich coming from a Trump hater that hasn’t let go of their temper tantrum from the night he was elected.
That stands as the single most embarrassing night in the history of our once great country.
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That stands as the single most embarrassing night in the history of our once great country.
Oh I see, this country is great so long as your side wins.
It’s like the left on this board has taken truth serum tonight.
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Oh I see, this country is great so long as your side wins.
It’s like the left on this board has taken truth serum tonight.
Nope.
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That stands as the single most embarrassing night in the history of our once great country.
I knew back then it would be bad, but never in my wildest dreams did i suspect it would be this bad.
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I’m supposed to put on big boy pants. That’s rich coming from a Trump hater that hasn’t let go of their temper tantrum from the night he was elected.
Nah. Mutant has been brain dead since the ringoutahoya.com days. Or maybe longer.
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New record today .. 601 new cases, 23 deaths also a record.
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New record today .. 601 new cases, 23 deaths also a record.
I hope it doesn’t get worse, but...... these records occurred 14 days after Republicans opened the state.
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Yeah, those fookin' idiots, hey?
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I hope it doesn’t get worse, but...... these records occurred 14 days after Republicans opened the state.
Testing is also massively improved since then as well, but let's ignore that part.
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Probably should move social distancin' ta 8 ft., hey?
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Probably should move social distancin' ta 8 ft., hey?
I think acting like there’s a virus still circulating would be a good start. Wisconsin is act like the Supreme Court ruled COVID19 as non-existent.
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Testing is also massively improved since then as well, but let's ignore that part.
Did improved testing kill people?
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Did improved testing kill people?
As discussed a million times on here death is a lagging indicator. Not a chance the death count from yesterday came from folks who got infected since the SC ruling. Keep spinning MU82
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As discussed a million times on here death is a lagging indicator. Not a chance the death count from yesterday came from folks who got infected since the SC ruling. Keep spinning MU82
Source?
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Source?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/04/30/texas-coronavirus-deaths-hit-single-day-high-on-eve-of-reopening/amp/
There are about a thousand articles (included is one) talking about death happening on average 3-4 weeks after someone gets the infection.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/04/30/texas-coronavirus-deaths-hit-single-day-high-on-eve-of-reopening/amp/
There are about a thousand articles (included is one) talking about death happening on average 3-4 weeks after someone gets the infection.
Can the average of 3 to 4 weeks include someone who contracts in and passes away in a week?
The chances of it happening are definitely not no chance.
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Can the average of 3 to 4 weeks include someone who contracts in and passes away in a week?
The chances of it happening are definitely not no chance.
No
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No
Lol. So “death happens on average 3-4 weeks after someone gets infected” = every person who died from covid-19 was infected 3-4 weeks before they died? Hey, you learn something new every day, I guess!
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Can the average of 3 to 4 weeks include someone who contracts in and passes away in a week?
The chances of it happening are definitely not no chance.
Not very likely. One of the bigger issues with COVID is how slow it kills or gets killed. If people were dropping dead in 2 days, we would have much less of a problem.
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Lol. So “death happens on average 3-4 weeks after someone gets infected” = every person who died from covid-19 was infected 3-4 weeks before they died? Hey, you learn something new every day, I guess!
Stupid question gets a stupid answer. No crap it can include someone within a week or two (maybe less) of getting the infection.
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I hope it doesn’t get worse, but...... these records occurred 14 days after Republicans opened the state.
This was entirely predictable. The single day high count is the result of multiple factors (I'm listing in order of impact):
1. Delayed reporting following a holiday weekend (at least half of these tests we taken at the beginning/middle of last week)
2. Increased testing volume (especially on-demand) which is going to catch more infected, Wednesday also had the highest volume of tests reported (~14,000)
3. Population movement is increasing the spread of the disease so more are being infected and in turn tested.
Item 3 becomes more and more of the driver over the next couple of weeks. Infection rates were going to have to go up as we open up, the key is are rates going up at a sustainable rate and is the rate at which infected are converted to hospitalizations? But those aren't sexy/eye popping stats for people.
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A story in two parts:
As discussed a million times on here death is a lagging indicator. Not a chance the death count from yesterday came from folks who got infected since the SC ruling. Keep spinning MU82
Stupid question gets a stupid answer. No crap it can include someone within a week or two (maybe less) of getting the infection.
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Infection rates were going to have to go up as we open up, the key is are rates going up at a sustainable rate and is the rate at which infected are converted to hospitalizations? But those aren't sexy/eye popping stats for people.
I think states (and the CDC for that matter) would be best served starting to capture and report this in a public way. I saw a study yesterday on consumer behavior where the most cited stat for 'feeling safe' to return to work/shop/open/etc is lower case numbers.
The govt & leaders need to start communicating differently now that we are in a new phase of this. It's not just the media....in many cases its just whats available.
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Lol. So “death happens on average 3-4 weeks after someone gets infected” = every person who died from covid-19 was infected 3-4 weeks before they died? Hey, you learn something new every day, I guess!
The time to death curve with Covid is extremely shifted to the longer duration. Of known Covid fatalities less than 1% happened in less than 10 days from estimated time of initial infection. Based on my preliminary analysis of the New York data sets, it appears death volumes are correlated to early in the learning experience AND the utilization of hospital systems. Meaning, we are developing better interventions so people who would have died in March are now being saved and that as long as a hospital doesn't get overwhelmed the majority of patients can be saved.
As a note, some of the folks dying now were sustained for over 6 weeks. Very tragic, but Covid is very slowly becoming less deadly than it was previously.
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A story in two parts:
Ah snap
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A story in two parts:
Fair enough, should have used “unlikely” but I think we’re all smart enough to understand the gist of the original statement.
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I think states (and the CDC for that matter) would be best served starting to capture and report this in a public way. I saw a study yesterday on consumer behavior where the most cited stat for 'feeling safe' to return to work/shop/open/etc is lower case numbers.
The govt & leaders need to start communicating differently now that we are in a new phase of this. It's not just the media....in many cases its just whats available.
Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately the data has become politicized up the ying yang. Also, I've found that the general population understands zero order stats (totals, average, etc) but once you start getting into first and second order stats (variance, rates, utilization, etc). Let's not even talk about higher order stats like skewness.
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Fair enough, should have used “unlikely” but I think we’re all smart enough to understand the gist of the original statement.
Thank you. All of this is gray. I think the public believes there is a right and wrong process for every medical decision. And it rarely is black and white.
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Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately the data has become politicized up the ying yang. Also, I've found that the general population understands zero order stats (totals, average, etc) but once you start getting into first and second order stats (variance, rates, utilization, etc). Let's not even talk about higher order stats like skewness.
I liked my simple equation the best. ;D
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Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately the data has become politicized up the ying yang. Also, I've found that the general population understands zero order stats (totals, average, etc) but once you start getting into first and second order stats (variance, rates, utilization, etc). Let's not even talk about higher order stats like skewness.
Ugh. This is America. We don’t do math
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Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately the data has become politicized up the ying yang. Also, I've found that the general population understands zero order stats (totals, average, etc) but once you start getting into first and second order stats (variance, rates, utilization, etc). Let's not even talk about higher order stats like skewness.
We all should be better consumers of news, data, etc. However the general population will always need things communicated in a way that makes it easy to understand and isnt going to go hunting for things. The Gov's can do this--the federal gov't can report metrics that matter. Not rocket science -- This is the metric, this is what it means, our target is X, we are here.
As an example, our state used hospitalizations as a key metric to reopen. The thing I didnt know until yesterday when I found that Axios report (linked in the COVID thread) report is that our hospitalization capacity (for COVID) is still way above some states and clearly peaked at much higher numbers. Seeing this made me better appreciate why some of the frustration is out there.
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Well, this is just awesome.
https://wxow.com/2020/05/22/shawano-county-campground-owner-says-shell-treat-wearing-masks-on-her-property-as-a-burglary-in-progress/
Not unique to WI.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/28/masks-not-allowed-coronavirus/
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Well, this is just awesome.
https://wxow.com/2020/05/22/shawano-county-campground-owner-says-shell-treat-wearing-masks-on-her-property-as-a-burglary-in-progress/
Not unique to WI.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/28/masks-not-allowed-coronavirus/
Meanwhile in Connecticut stores have altered the well know sign to now read
No shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service.
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Testing is also massively improved since then as well, but let's ignore that part.
More people die because of more testing? More people are hospitalized because of more testing?
Now you’are really reaching.
Edit: sorry 82. I just saw your post.
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As discussed a million times on here death is a lagging indicator. Not a chance the death count from yesterday came from folks who got infected since the SC ruling. Keep spinning MU82
Wrong. SC decision was 15 days ago. This is exactly when you would expect deaths to rise.
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Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately the data has become politicized up the ying yang. Also, I've found that the general population understands zero order stats (totals, average, etc) but once you start getting into first and second order stats (variance, rates, utilization, etc). Let's not even talk about higher order stats like skewness.
I love your posts, Eng. Always the engineer.
I do look forward to an off the rails rant from you, though. ;)
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I love your posts, Eng. Always the engineer.
I do look forward to an off the rails rant from you, though. ;)
Eh, I'll leave that to the professionals ;)
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Wrong. SC decision was 15 days ago. This is exactly when you would expect deaths to rise.
This is the earliest you would see a person actually die if infected at the reopening, wouldn't show up in the count until next week.
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This is the earliest you would see a person actually die if infected at the reopening, wouldn't show up in the count until next week.
That doesn't jive with jockitch's narrative tho.
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New record today .. 601 new cases, 23 deaths also a record.
Deaths per day:
May 23: 11
May 24: 3
May 25: 4
May 26: 3
May 27: 22
May 28: 11
hmmm...did a bunch of people take off dying over the 3 day weekend or was there just a lag in reporting? This is why 1 day numbers are worthless.
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Deaths per day:
May 23: 11
May 24: 3
May 25: 4
May 26: 3
May 27: 22
May 28: 11
hmmm...did a bunch of people take off dying over the 3 day weekend or was there just a lag in reporting? This is why 1 day numbers are worthless.
Can you prove they didn't take off dying?
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I posted the new numbers because they are .. new numbers. I do think it's .. at best unproven that the higher numbers we're seeing is entirely correlated to the SCOWIS decision to open .. but #1 .. the data doesn't look good and #2 .. time will tell. Wait 10 days, 20, 30.
If you were in Vegas, the house wouldn't let you bet on an upward trajectory at even odds.
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And not surprising, the Wisconsin State Fair is officially canceled. Was set to open August 6.
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https://twitter.com/kenosha_news/status/1266001020133441540?s=21
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If you were in Vegas, the house wouldn't let you bet on an upward trajectory at even odds.
This.
Unfortunately, the near-panicked rush to reopen almost certainly will have wrought havoc.
Times of crisis give us insight into national and local leadership (or lack thereof) that good times cannot.
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https://twitter.com/kenosha_news/status/1266001020133441540?s=21
That's...not great news...at all.
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https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/1266099973483106304?s=21
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This.
Unfortunately, the near-panicked rush to reopen almost certainly will have wrought havoc.
3
Times of crisis give us insight into national and local leadership (or lack thereof) that good times cannot.
Geez, maybe we should all stand 7' 4" apart and march in place holdin' our johnsons, hey?
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Wear masks. Wash your hands. Act as if going somewhere needlessly could kill you.
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Geez, maybe we should all stand 7' 4" apart and march in place holdin' our johnsons, hey?
So you’re in the trump camp that mocks 100,000 dead Americans?
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I read that Kenosha tweet. What is also disturbing in it was that people do not want to cooperate with the public health nurses doing contact tracing,
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Well, this is just awesome.
https://wxow.com/2020/05/22/shawano-county-campground-owner-says-shell-treat-wearing-masks-on-her-property-as-a-burglary-in-progress/
So, she thinks she has the right to murder responsible people?
Since some see masks as political - and Trump thanked a tweeter today for saying the only good Democrat is a dead democrat (in a church, no less) - we can’t be surprised by her lunacy.
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Geez, maybe we should all stand 7' 4" apart and march in place holdin' our johnsons, hey?
Doc, I think you should let as many mouth-breathers as you’d like get right in your face. But then don’t get near anybody else until you’ve been tested. You have the right to kill yourself but not somebody else.
Or you could just take a shortcut and inject Lysol into your lungs as your emperor suggested.
I seriously hope you don’t get sick, though, because I like you being on Scoop.
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I've been on the front line all along within 6 inches of pie holes, dressed like an astronaut and doing the things I love doing.
When patients have issues, calling Ghostbusters isn't going to help, but a Marquette dentist can and will. Its in our DNA.
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More people die because of more testing? More people are hospitalized because of more testing?
Now you’are really reaching.
Edit: sorry 82. I just saw your post.
Lagged reporting will. See the numbers of dead over the weekend. The political narratives you all run on need to stop. Report facts, not skewed stats.
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I've been on the front line all along within 6 inches of pie holes, dressed like an astronaut and doing the things I love doing.
When patients have issues, calling Ghostbusters isn't going to help, but a Marquette dentist can and will. Its in our DNA.
If this coronavirus thing is severely overstated or not even real as many suggest, why even bother wearing PPE?
Obviously, just being facetious there, Doc. Thanks for doing what you do. It's important work.
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New record again for WI. 733 new cases, crushing the 601 record.
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New record again for WI. 733 new cases, crushing the 601 record.
Also a single day record for total test reported at 13,600 crushing the record set the previous day by almost 3,000.
Positivity rate is still sitting below 7% ever across the last three days. This implies two things, the disease is spreading more and we are capturing more asymptomatic or per-symptomatic folks.
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Also a single day record for total test reported at 13,600 crushing the record set the previous day by almost 3,000.
Positivity rate is still sitting below 7% ever across the last three days. This implies two things, the disease is spreading more and we are capturing more asymptomatic or per-symptomatic folks.
The latter is not implied. The data itself does not say anything about capturing more asymptomatic or per-symptomatic folks.
It just means that we are running more tests, and identifying more cases. The severity of the individuals testing positive is not present in the data, or implied by the data.
It quite honestly could mean that there are more cases out there now (higher positives) and we are testing a bunch of people that shouldn't be tested (no chance of being positive). Leading both to more tests, and more positives. The exact scenario cannot be determined from the data itself.
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The latter is not implied. The data itself does not say anything about capturing more asymptomatic or per-symptomatic folks.
It just means that we are running more tests, and identifying more cases. The severity of the individuals testing positive is not present in the data, or implied by the data.
It quite honestly could mean that there are more cases out there now (higher positives) and we are testing a bunch of people that shouldn't be tested (no chance of being positive). Leading both to more tests, and more positives. The exact scenario cannot be determined from the data itself.
You can if you use the active case data, hospitalization rates, and the other various data provided by the the health department.
Side note. I'd love to know who these no chance to be positive people are, what they are doing and how I can be them.
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You can if you use the active case data, hospitalization rates, and the other various data provided by the the health department.
Side note. I'd love to know who these no chance to be positive people are, what they are doing and how I can be them.
Badger fans. They aren’t human
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The latter is not implied. The data itself does not say anything about capturing more asymptomatic or per-symptomatic folks.
It just means that we are running more tests, and identifying more cases. The severity of the individuals testing positive is not present in the data, or implied by the data.
It quite honestly could mean that there are more cases out there now (higher positives) and we are testing a bunch of people that shouldn't be tested (no chance of being positive). Leading both to more tests, and more positives. The exact scenario cannot be determined from the data itself.
I have not been tested, but have talked to dozens of people who have here in Racine. Not one was because they had symptoms - all precautionary.
So, totals and percentages may not mean much. Hospitalizations totals do.
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I have not been tested, but have talked to dozens of people who have here in Racine. Not one was because they had symptoms - all precautionary.
So, totals and percentages may not mean much. Hospitalizations totals do.
Glad to hear you can get testing in Racine now, aina. 8-)
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Glad to hear you can get testing in Racine now, aina. 8-)
Everybody who wants to get tested was the lie in early March. Finally in late May, almost everyone that wants to get tested in Racine can.
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16 days out from republican Supreme Court ruling, we have highest 3-day death total yet in Wisconsin.
Just a coincidence.
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16 days out from republican Supreme Court ruling, we have highest 3-day death total yet in Wisconsin.
Just a coincidence.
It literally is
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That Wisconsin is testing more people is not the only reason case positives are going up.
Please, someone math this up.
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https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/wisconsin
She's a beut, Clark.
follow the data.
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You can if you use the active case data, hospitalization rates, and the other various data provided by the the health department.
Side note. I'd love to know who these no chance to be positive people are, what they are doing and how I can be them.
Not sure what you mean by "active case data," but hospitalization rates are a lagging indicator. It is also highly dependent on age. So we could be doing a better job protecting elderly, but still seeing more severe cases. Essentially, and I know you will agree, we need far more comprehensive data/statistics than is publicly available to make more specific assertions.
I know people that haven't left their house in over a month. All food etc., coming from grocery delivery services. Haven't had contact with people outside of their home for a month or more. They went and got tested. It is not that unusual, there are people that are really bothered by the unknown, and even though they have never been possibly exposed and have no symptoms they are going and getting their free CoVID-19 test.
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Not sure what you mean by "active case data," but hospitalization rates are a lagging indicator. It is also highly dependent on age. So we could be doing a better job protecting elderly, but still seeing more severe cases. Essentially, and I know you will agree, we need far more comprehensive data/statistics than is publicly available to make more specific assertions.
I know people that haven't left their house in over a month. All food etc., coming from grocery delivery services. Haven't had contact with people outside of their home for a month or more. They went and got tested. It is not that unusual, there are people that are really bothered by the unknown, and even though they have never been possibly exposed and have no symptoms they are going and getting their free CoVID-19 test.
Over the last three days, we've had over 30,000 tests reported with a positivity rate of 6.1%. May 1st we had a positivity rate of 12%......how many of these shut ins you describe(I 100% believe you that they exist) would have to have decided simultaneously in the last week go out and get test to have a statistically significant impact.
I have no doubt that Covid is continuing to spread and most likely at a rate faster than it was previous to the SC decision. However if you look and mobility data, the testing data, hospitalization rates, etc O believe the following
-We still have decent control over the spread
-Generally, the population is behaving as asked, there are no doubt outliers but on the whole people are staying home a lot more than normal
-The disease seems to be less deadly and resulting in less hospitalizations so far (hospitalization count is not going up at the same volume as the positive test count, and hospitalizations are typically happening with two weeks of infection). This is still a very dangerous disease but we are seeing improvements that should be acknowledged
-We have at least another week until we get any irrefutable evidence whether the open up fiasco had a detrimental impact on containing the virus.
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Congratulations on now being a COVID 'hotspot'. It isn't as exciting as they make it sound.
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Congratulations on now being a COVID 'hotspot'. It isn't as exciting as they make it sound.
Summer tourist hotspot too. Things will probably get more icky than people are expecting.
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16 days out from republican Supreme Court ruling, we have highest 3-day death total yet in Wisconsin.
Just a coincidence.
The last three days have seen 8, 9, and 9 deaths. Is it the highest 3 days since the ruling change? Yes. The rolling 3 day average prior to the last three days was 8 deaths a day and it has now jumped to 8.67 deaths per day. Now we have two choices here. We can say it jumped just under 9%, which is accurate, but that is looking at infinitely small number uptick over a small time frame. Or, we can look at the absolute numbers and say what was 8 per day is now still less than 9 per day which is incredibly small. Different people will react differently to spin it as they wish.
Prior to the ruling from April 10th to April 21st, the state had 11 deaths a day each day. Using any three days in that time period is 33 deaths over 3 days.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/wisconsin
The death rate for Wisconsin is 9 per 100,000. One of the lowest in the country. Here, it is 41 per 100,000, one of the highest in the country.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/
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The last three days have seen 8, 9, and 9 deaths. Is it the highest 3 days since the ruling change? Yes. The rolling 3 day average prior to the last three days was 8 deaths a day and it has now jumped to 8.67 deaths per day. Now we have two choices here. We can say it jumped just under 9%, which is accurate, but that is looking at infinitely small number uptick over a small time frame. Or, we can look at the absolute numbers and say what was 8 per day is now still less than 9 per day which is incredibly small. Different people will react differently to spin it as they wish.
Prior to the ruling from April 10th to April 21st, the state had 11 deaths a day each day. Using any three days in that time period is 33 deaths over 3 days.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/wisconsin
The death rate for Wisconsin is 9 per 100,000. One of the lowest in the country. Here, it is 41 per 100,000, one of the highest in the country.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/
My favorite thing about you, is that you think that you're smarter than people who are experts in their field.
It's absolutely hilarious to watch you twist yourself in mental knots to justify your point.
Because you do it so poorly.
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My favorite thing about you, is that you think that you're smarter than people who are experts in their field.
It's absolutely hilarious to watch you twist yourself in mental knots to justify your point.
Because you do it so poorly.
I am not smarter than the experts in this field, but based on terrible modeling from day one, shifting opinions on the virus not passable by humans, masks won't work, sunlight does nothing, masks may work, it is passable to humans, it seems to me the experts in the field aren't very good either.
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I am not smarter than the experts in this field, but based on terrible modeling from day one, shifting opinions on the virus not passable by humans, masks won't work, sunlight does nothing, masks may work, it is passable to humans, it seems to me the experts in the field aren't very good either.
LMFAO
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MU weighs in on Wisconsin's situation ..
https://www.marquette.edu/athletic-human-performance-research-center/documents/commentary-covid-masks.pdf
First bullet:
Wisconsin’s COVID-19 curve has not been flattened and the state now has one of the worst COVID-19 outbreaks in the nation
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MU weighs in on Wisconsin's situation ..
https://www.marquette.edu/athletic-human-performance-research-center/documents/commentary-covid-masks.pdf
First bullet:
Wisconsin’s COVID-19 curve has not been flattened and the state now has one of the worst COVID-19 outbreaks in the nation
In terms of infections and/or positive tests...sure. But if those infections aren't resulting in hospitalization and/or deaths does it matter?
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In terms of infections and/or positive tests...sure. But if those infections aren't resulting in hospitalization and/or deaths does it matter?
Hospitalizations sounds like the metric.
Connecticut had about 2,000 total hospitalizations for COVID-19 in mid to late April and it's down to 373 as of yesterday.
Does Wisconsin update that stat daily?
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Hospitalizations sounds like the metric.
Connecticut had about 2,000 total hospitalizations for COVID-19 in mid to late April and it's down to 373 as of yesterday.
Does Wisconsin update that stat daily?
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/wisconsin
towards the bottom of the page.
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https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/wisconsin
towards the bottom of the page.
That data is 6 days old ..
Try this: https://projects.jsonline.com/topics/coronavirus/tracking/covid-19-cases-testing-and-deaths-in-wisconsin.html
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Hospitalizations are low and look pretty stable in Wisconsin.
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Hearing that Dane Co is not moving to phase 2 of the reopen plan next week, despite the county having met the requirements for phase 2 prior to phase 1 starting 2 weeks ago. Follow the science, aina.
Not official, but have a contact at the health dept. Its all political, she said.
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Hearing that Dane Co is not moving to phase 2 of the reopen plan next week, despite the county having met the requirements for phase 2 prior to phase 1 starting 2 weeks ago. Follow the science, aina.
Not official, but have a contact at the health dept. Its all political, she said.
CT just moved our phase 2 up. Suck it WI!
Well I guess it was only three days—6/17 instead of the 20th. Carry on WI.
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Hearing that Dane Co is not moving to phase 2 of the reopen plan next week, despite the county having met the requirements for phase 2 prior to phase 1 starting 2 weeks ago. Follow the science, aina.
Not official, but have a contact at the health dept. Its all political, she said.
Has nothing to do with infection rates going up.
Yeah, that’s the ticket.
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Hearing that Dane Co is not moving to phase 2 of the reopen plan next week, despite the county having met the requirements for phase 2 prior to phase 1 starting 2 weeks ago. Follow the science, aina.
Not official, but have a contact at the health dept. Its all political, she said.
And it's official. This is a county that set clear expectations, met them 2 weeks ago and are now just playing politics. Sad.
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And it's official. This is a county that set clear expectations, met them 2 weeks ago and are now just playing politics. Sad.
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WI had over 400 in hospitals due to covid on 4/9 has been downward since. Stands at 352 today
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/hosp-data.htm
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And it's official. This is a county that set clear expectations, met them 2 weeks ago and are now just playing politics. Sad.
Serious BS there. Godspeed ZFB, the mop bucket will be waiting for you.
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Don’t know how many times I have to post this, but the Wisconsin hospital association has updates daily with ICU numbers as well
https://www.wha.org/COVID19Update
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Serious BS there. Godspeed ZFB, the mop bucket will be waiting for you.
Tell me what is bs. Dane co set out a series of requirements, those metrics were achieved, ( we were qualified for phase 2 before phase 1 even started) and they are still playing politics. DPT's numbers from the WHA and Dane county's own reportings confirm that.
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Tell me what is bs. Dane co set out a series of requirements, those metrics were achieved, ( we were qualified for phase 2 before phase 1 even started) and they are still playing politics. DPT's numbers from the WHA and Dane county's own reportings confirm that.
I do agree with the phased re-opening, however find it strange that they force businesses to wait 3 days to go to the next phase. I’m sure most businesses have been planning out these phases for at least a month and could build out whatever, whenever they wanted to.
The cynic in me thinks it has something weird to do with school ending or graduations, where the schools wouldn’t have to meet some obligation if they were allowed to re-open under the phase. So they go to phase 2 after school ends on Wednesday.
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I do agree with the phased re-opening, however find it strange that they force businesses to wait 3 days to go to the next phase. I’m sure most businesses have been planning out these phases for at least a month and could build out whatever, whenever they wanted to.
The cynic in me thinks it has something weird to do with school ending or graduations, where the schools wouldn’t have to meet some obligation if they were allowed to re-open under the phase. So they go to phase 2 after school ends on Wednesday.
Possible but the governor's original order closed school the rest of the year and the WI Supreme court upheld that decision. Schools are closed until June 30 statewide.
My opinion, they want to see how many cases come out of the protest marches. Extending phase 1 gives more time for infection and testing to happen.
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She seems nice...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=90&v=_DyiZVSEFI4&feature=emb_logo
"Shorewood woman spits on protester"
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She seems nice...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=90&v=_DyiZVSEFI4&feature=emb_logo
"Shorewood woman spits on protester"
Yeah, that Shorewood story is a hoot. 64 year old, lawyer, potentially mentally ill. Spits on protester, arrested. The next day, the protesters come to her house, chant, draw on her sidewalk "Racist lives here" .. not sure why the police are called but the 64 year old knees a cop in the family jewels and gets arrested for the 2nd time in two days.
That's a rough weekend.
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The trolling worked. For the entertainment of all. Except the officer with the sore groin.
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Big spike in Winnebago County that is being traced to social events over the Memorial Day weekend. They are emphsizing that much of positive tests are coming from 20-29 year olds. What isn't being shared publically, but is making the rounds privately, is that they believe many of these are UW-Oshkosh students living off campus for the summer.
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Big spike in Winnebago County that is being traced to social events over the Memorial Day weekend. They are emphsizing that much of positive tests are coming from 20-29 year olds. What isn't being shared publically, but is making the rounds privately, is that they believe many of these are UW-Oshkosh students living off campus for the summer.
The data seems off with the report from the news according to the link below. Biggest jump in cases came a week after memorial day. So when will the protest numbers start to hit? Also just 13 cases in a hospital. I take it as good news we see a spike but yet just 13 in the hospital
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/county.htm
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The data seems off with the report from the news according to the link below. Biggest jump in cases came a week after memorial day. So when will the protest numbers start to hit? Also just 13 cases in a hospital. I take it as good news we see a spike but yet just 13 in the hospital
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/county.htm
13 cases where? Just the county? .. As of June 9, there were 331 cases in the hospital for WI.
https://projects.jsonline.com/topics/coronavirus/tracking/covid-19-cases-testing-and-deaths-in-wisconsin.html
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The data seems off with the report from the news according to the link below. Biggest jump in cases came a week after memorial day. So when will the protest numbers start to hit? Also just 13 cases in a hospital. I take it as good news we see a spike but yet just 13 in the hospital
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/county.htm
We'd see infection rates start going up by the start of next week if correlated to the protests and we'd see hospitalizations go up starting the end of next week. Any protest spread would also have a long tail (increasing infection rates) due to secondary and tertiary infections. So if there was significant spread during the protests we'll see a ton of downstream infections a month from now. If the spread at protests was minimal we'll probably see an increase but not something remarkable a month out.
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We'd see infection rates start going up by the start of next week if correlated to the protests and we'd see hospitalizations go up starting the end of next week. Any protest spread would also have a long tail (increasing infection rates) due to secondary and tertiary infections. So if there was significant spread during the protests we'll see a ton of downstream infections a month from now. If the spread at protests was minimal we'll probably see an increase but not something remarkable a month out.
This is all grim talk, but I’m watching Houston. Early opener economically, Seeing upticks in the hospitals and there were protests. Probably going to help the country know where the balance point is.
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13 cases where? Just the county? .. As of June 9, there were 331 cases in the hospital for WI.
https://projects.jsonline.com/topics/coronavirus/tracking/covid-19-cases-testing-and-deaths-in-wisconsin.html
yes the county
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This is all grim talk, but I’m watching Houston. Early opener economically, Seeing upticks in the hospitals and there were protests. Probably going to help the country know where the balance point is.
Texas hitting a 1 day record of infected today & a 5% jump in hospitalizations (4th consecutive daily increase) isn't a great sign.
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Texas hitting a 1 day record of infected today & a 5% jump in hospitalizations (4th consecutive daily increase) isn't a great sign.
Numbers are up but plenty of capacity — which is the goal—to deal with the sick. They want to test this - so we will see.
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What Covid?
Pack them fools in at your rallies, Bunker Boy.
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What Covid?
Pack them fools in at your rallies, Bunker Boy.
Pretty hypocritical to call out political rallies amidst protests that would be far greater sources of spread don’t you think? It’s not an endorsement of Trump or his BS, but those fighting him have done more to set us back in COVID progress than MAGA crowds would if you really wanna get down to it
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Pretty hypocritical to call out political rallies amidst protests that would be far greater sources of spread don’t you think? It’s not an endorsement of Trump or his BS, but those fighting him have done more to set us back in COVID progress than MAGA crowds would if you really wanna get down to it
Not true. Protest have been outside and many have masks on. MAGA rallies are tightly packed, indoors, with likely zero masks being worn.
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Wags, while some might disagree (perhaps even you), I believe protests are absolutely necessary. They already are affecting change, perhaps lasting change. They put the spotlight on important issues that we all need to face, no matter how difficult it might be. Like others, I wish some protests hadn't gotten violent, but history very well could record this period of protests as an extremely important time for American progress.
Holding political rallies just to feed a politician's ego - regardless of the name of the politician - is not important and not necessary. It's a choice. No political rally matters, except to the politician holding it. He or she just wants to hear his or her name chanted by the masses. 99.9% of those who attend a rally already have decided who they are voting for, and already have made up their minds on any issues.
So yes, both the protests and any rallies can be super-spreader events for COVID. But I do hope you're not saying they are equal in their relevance to society.
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Wags, while some might disagree (perhaps even you), I believe protests are absolutely necessary. They already are affecting change, perhaps lasting change. They put the spotlight on important issues that we all need to face, no matter how difficult it might be. Like others, I wish some protests hadn't gotten violent, but history very well could record this period of protests as an extremely important time for American progress.
Holding political rallies just to feed a politician's ego - regardless of the name of the politician - is not important and not necessary. It's a choice. No political rally matters, except to the politician holding it. He or she just wants to hear his or her name chanted by the masses. 99.9% of those who attend a rally already have decided who they are voting for, and already have made up their minds on any issues.
So yes, both the protests and any rallies can be super-spreader events for COVID. But I do hope you're not saying they are equal in their relevance to society.
Oh I’m fully in support of the protests and rallies. They are beyond overdue and in many ways an encouraging sign we’ve gotten to at least a partial tipping point. And I have no love for political rallies no matter what candidate or party and can pretty matter of factly say I’d never attend one.
That being said, I was speaking solely to their potential as super spreader events as it relates to COVID.
Not true. Protest have been outside and many have masks on. MAGA rallies are tightly packed, indoors, with likely zero masks being worn.
Outdoors sure, but from first party accounts in 3-4 different major cities from people I know, masks have been a mixed bag at best. NYC was the most masked up, makes sense given how strict the city has been with them, but my sister said there was plenty of pulling them down or off to yell or the like. My friends in Chicago said for every person wearing a mask, you had multiple either not wearing one or with it under their chin like a doctor or not being worn as intended to stop spread.
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Oh I’m fully in support of the protests and rallies. They are beyond overdue and in many ways an encouraging sign we’ve gotten to at least a partial tipping point. And I have no love for political rallies no matter what candidate or party and can pretty matter of factly say I’d never attend one.
That being said, I was speaking solely to their potential as super spreader events as it relates to COVID.
Agreed.
It will be interesting to see the numbers after the biggest period of protests (which will be soon). Still, it might be difficult to pinpoint that the protests are the source sometimes, because this stretch coincides with a lot of states opening up their economies fully or partially.
I'm guessing that rallies, though definitely super-spreader events, will be less an issue simply because there are fewer of them. We've had hundreds of protests, from sea to shining sea, but there will be only so many big rallies. Like you say, though, rallies are so unnecessary that if even one person gets really sick or dies ... what a needless tragedy that would be,
I am one who wants to follow the science but also knows we have to open things up for the economy. I am not one who thinks we should be having political rallies with COVID still very much an issue. Like you, I am confident in saying I'll never attend one.
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Wags, while some might disagree (perhaps even you), I believe protests are absolutely necessary. They already are affecting change, perhaps lasting change. They put the spotlight on important issues that we all need to face, no matter how difficult it might be. Like others, I wish some protests hadn't gotten violent, but history very well could record this period of protests as an extremely important time for American progress.
Holding political rallies just to feed a politician's ego - regardless of the name of the politician - is not important and not necessary. It's a choice. No political rally matters, except to the politician holding it. He or she just wants to hear his or her name chanted by the masses. 99.9% of those who attend a rally already have decided who they are voting for, and already have made up their minds on any issues.
So yes, both the protests and any rallies can be super-spreader events for COVID. But I do hope you're not saying they are equal in their relevance to society.
Careful 82, you are skewing dangerously close to "speech for me, not for thee". The difference between the protests and Trump rallies basically boils down to whether a person supports the cause they are for. They are both political in nature, protected speech, and events that can lead to negative impacts on public health. The "worthiness" of the cause as determined by you and I should have no impact on what its value or privilege to exist has on society.
This isn't a both sides thing or like I'm some MAGA superfan just concerned that we not lose ourselves in our zeal to do the right things.
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Careful 82, you are skewing dangerously close to "speech for me, not for thee". The difference between the protests and Trump rallies basically boils down to whether a person supports the cause they are for. They are both political in nature, protected speech, and events that can lead to negative impacts on public health. The "worthiness" of the cause as determined by you and I should have no impact on what its value or privilege to exist has on society.
This isn't a both sides thing or like I'm some MAGA superfan just concerned that we not lose ourselves in our zeal to do the right things.
Actually, it is a both sides thing - and I think you know I'm not one to throw around "both sides" casually.
I don't think anybody should be holding big political rallies during a global pandemic. Not Biden, not Trump, not any gubernatorial nor congressional nor mayoral candidates, nobody. They are arguably unnecessary even in good times, but certainly not when hospitalization and death rates are still going up in many of the metro areas in which rallies usually are held.
The protests already have helped affect some significant changes, with hopefully much more to come.
Rallies do nothing but get fans chanting names of political candidates they already are going to vote for.
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Outdoors sure, but from first party accounts in 3-4 different major cities from people I know, masks have been a mixed bag at best. NYC was the most masked up, makes sense given how strict the city has been with them, but my sister said there was plenty of pulling them down or off to yell or the like. My friends in Chicago said for every person wearing a mask, you had multiple either not wearing one or with it under their chin like a doctor or not being worn as intended to stop spread.
Being outdoors is much safer than indoors. But you're right, mask wearing isn't universal. Better that some do than the zero I expect to see at a MAGA rally.
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Founded by the Koch brothers, but interesting nonetheless https://www.nber.org/papers/w27322
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Founded by the Koch brothers, but interesting nonetheless https://www.nber.org/papers/w27322
It seems like the authors love million dollar words.
It’s still early and the paper dense— but are they essentially saying that until we control the virus, normal movement and normal economic activity will not begin? If that is the case, I wholeheartedly agree.
Also, I would gather that Stay in place is needed to galvanize the population that there is a crisis. Once it’s galvanized then the mindset is sufficient to achieve the goals.
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What it is saying that the Supreme Court order doesn't look like it caused additional cases, at least a statistically significant amount, because people continued to take precautions and because many local health departments continued to have regulations in place.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/06/15/coronavirus-wisconsin-hospitalizations-decrease-174-new-cases/3192475001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/06/15/coronavirus-wisconsin-hospitalizations-decrease-174-new-cases/3192475001/)
All the data reported here seems to imply they concerns over the crashing into re-open by the Wisconsin SC and probably the protests all leading to an increase of cases turned out to be a nothing burger.
One thing I wish they would report is the percentage of cases where patients have recovered more consistently like this article does. There are 6,197 active, known cases in Milwaukee. So 4.6% of active cases are in the hospital and the percentage of deaths to confirmed cases is 3%.
Obviously, things can take a turn for the worse, but I think it's safe to say that generally Wisconsinites are doing some things right.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/06/15/coronavirus-wisconsin-hospitalizations-decrease-174-new-cases/3192475001/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/06/15/coronavirus-wisconsin-hospitalizations-decrease-174-new-cases/3192475001/)
All the data reported here seems to imply they concerns over the crashing into re-open by the Wisconsin SC and probably the protests all leading to an increase of cases turned out to be a nothing burger.
One thing I wish they would report is the percentage of cases where patients have recovered more consistently like this article does. There are 6,197 active, known cases in Milwaukee. So 4.6% of active cases are in the hospital and the percentage of deaths to confirmed cases is 3%.
Obviously, things can take a turn for the worse, but I think it's safe to say that generally Wisconsinites are doing some things right.
Huge majority of citizens followed Evers’ directions.
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Huge majority of citizens followed Evers’ directions.
Are you implying the majority of citizens are staying in lockdown or shelter at home and that’s why there’s not been a spike? Cause that’s just fundamentally and anecdotally not true. Evers direction was to empower someone who subsequently declared a rolling lockdown. All we heard after the SC ruling was how reckless and stupid Wisconsin was and how everyone was out there putting everyone at risk. Now with no discernible explosion upwards in cases, the narrative is it’s because Evers was right all along and people listened to him? :o That’s a pretty odd spin just to support your guy
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Are you implying the majority of citizens are staying in lockdown or shelter at home and that’s why there’s not been a spike? Cause that’s just fundamentally and anecdotally not true. Evers direction was to empower someone who subsequently declared a rolling lockdown. All we heard after the SC ruling was how reckless and stupid Wisconsin was and how everyone was out there putting everyone at risk. Now with no discernible explosion upwards in cases, the narrative is it’s because Evers was right all along and people listened to him? :o That’s a pretty odd spin just to support your guy
My anecdotal experience is that a fair number of people are by no means returning to "normal." So I think Jockey is partially right.
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My anecdotal experience is that a fair number of people are by no means returning to "normal." So I think Jockey is partially right.
Sure, but there is a huge divide between shelter at home and living circa Feb. If we’re giving Evers credit for everything between that, then so be it I guess
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Not sure that Evers or his orders have anything to do with anything. If we go back and re-read this thread there have been all sorts of dire projections that haven't come true. They still could, but it's safe to say at this point that Wisconsites took common sense approach to things and have generally done a good job of self control in the re-opening phase. Hopefully this trend continues.
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My anecdotal experience is that a fair number of people are by no means returning to "normal." So I think Jockey is partially right.
Not sure where you live but I was at a baseball tournament this weekend did not see one mask and parents all over the place just like it was last year. The local stores in sheboygan look like normal and the dirt track is packed every saturday night so from my experience people pretty close to normal except for the HS kids that still cannot go to their school and workout cause of Evers order to keep school grounds closed until July 1.
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I was at a travel baseball tourney in Ohio. My family and I wore masks whenever we entered a building. We were the outliers.
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Not sure that Evers or his orders have anything to do with anything. If we go back and re-read this thread there have been all sorts of dire projections that haven't come true. They still could, but it's safe to say at this point that Wisconsites took common sense approach to things and have generally done a good job of self control in the re-opening phase. Hopefully this trend continues.
Yep. This is my feelings. I was in Ohio on the way back to Wisconsin and it was similar to Wisconsin in the sporadic mask usage, mostly in some retail spots, and then staff in restaurants. Though I was at 2 restaurants in Wisconsin this weekend with no masks even on waitstaff
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Are you implying the majority of citizens are staying in lockdown or shelter at home and that’s why there’s not been a spike?
I am not implying it, I am saying it is true. I was invited to a memorial and meal at a Country Club this Saturday. Almost 100 people invited - less than 30 have accepted. Almost all sent regards and said they were not yet ready to go out. Kohls just opened and when I went to the grocery store (Kohls is in same strip mall), there were 6 cars in the Kohls parking lot. People took Evers suggestions very seriously while we were on full lockdown and a good percentage of people are still doing the same. Still very little dine-in restaurant activity.
The majority of people are still taking this very seriously.
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I am not implying it, I am saying it is true. I was invited to a memorial and meal at a Country Club this Saturday. Almost 100 people invited - less than 30 have accepted. Almost all sent regards and said they were not yet ready to go out. Kohls just opened and when I went to the grocery store (Kohls is in same strip mall), there were 6 cars in the Kohls parking lot. People took Evers suggestions very seriously while we were on full lockdown and a good percentage of people are still doing the same. Still very little dine-in restaurant activity.
The majority of people are still taking this very seriously.
I'll have what hes having
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I am not implying it, I am saying it is true. I was invited to a memorial and meal at a Country Club this Saturday. Almost 100 people invited - less than 30 have accepted. Almost all sent regards and said they were not yet ready to go out. Kohls just opened and when I went to the grocery store (Kohls is in same strip mall), there were 6 cars in the Kohls parking lot. People took Evers suggestions very seriously while we were on full lockdown and a good percentage of people are still doing the same. Still very little dine-in restaurant activity.
The majority of people are still taking this very seriously.
I can assure you that is not the case in the vast majority of the Milwaukee area. I’ve seen the exact opposite in Wauwatosa, Milwaukee, Cedarburg, Mequon, and WFB. It’s not completely pre-COVID, but it’s far closer to normal than the ghost town, unofficial lockdown you’re mentioning. I don’t know a single person of any age saying “I’m not ready to” or “I don’t feel safe” to go out. The lakefront yesterday was BUZZING
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There's no doubt .. the science, data, and policy send confusing signals.
Wisconsin .. is doing well, it really is. How and why, I just don't know.
22 states have increasing cases. TX, FL, NC, AZ, SC, AR, NV, OK, OR have sharply spiking 7-day averages over the past 10 days.
Why not Wisconsin? I really don't know. Plenty of anecdotes of people in large groups .. people not wearing masks .. all the things necessary the science tells us will spike cases. I don't know why Wisconsin (and so many other states) are materially different than the states that are spiking.
Are midwesterners better handwashers? Are we stifling our sneezes? Maybe our collective immune systems are tuned better?
Maybe some day, science talking people will explain.
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Here in Florida we have a large contingency of “it’s a hoax” people that actively go out of their way to not wear masks or social distance. I suspect that is one reason we are seeing the spike.
But as others have said, it will be interesting to see the research studies.
I work with several state governments in the East. Many of the ones in the south have flat out said they aren’t interested in collecting data that may help in that research, sadly including Florida.
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Watching the local news while reading this thread, and they just said that yesterday in Wisconsin, they had the lowest number of new cases in the past two weeks.
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See that's the thing about people continuing to follow an unofficial "safer at home" mindset. You can't see them when you go out because they're... safer at home. My folks are admittedly part of a "larger risk" age group, but they're still both working from home, buying all non-food items through Amazon, racing through grocery stores even during non peak hours (their personal best time is 11 minutes), only ordering take-out/non contact delivery. I belong to one of the statically safest age groups and I haven't gotten non-takeout since pre-safer at home. There's also significant data showing that spread is less likely in outdoor environments while social distancing, so I don't think you can say that because some people showed up to the lake, that means that other people aren't still taking this extremely seriously.
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I have been to restaurants a few times since they have opened. They are nowhere near pre-shut down levels. And yes while most aren't wearing masks in stores, I view as the third to half I see as a good thing. And many workplaces, including mine, require them now when you aren't in your workspace. I haven't returned to the gym, and likely will not until this is over, and in talking to those who are still going, the place has lost about a third of its members.
I still think many people are being cautious. Or maybe it's the economy. Likely a bit of both.
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I have been to restaurants a few times since they have opened. They are nowhere near pre-shut down levels. And yes while most aren't wearing masks in stores, I view as the third to half I see as a good thing. And many workplaces, including mine, require them now when you aren't in your workspace. I haven't returned to the gym, and likely will not until this is over, and in talking to those who are still going, the place has lost about a third of its members.
I still think many people are being cautious. Or maybe it's the economy. Likely a bit of both.
Yup. I know a ton of restaurants that continue to be carry out only even though they can be open at 25% capacity now. My guess is their carry out business is doing so well that if they opened up dine in at 25% their carry out goes down more than they’d gain from dine in, plus they can leave a number of staff members on unemployment. Total guess though.
My experience in stores had been probably 2/3 masks. But it definitely depends on where you are. From the stores I’ve been in it seems less crowded, but also with working from home I can go at different times than normal, which is probably the case for many people and spreads the crowd out throughout the day. Masks required at work when away from the desk, along with a number of other measures in place. Gyms and pools have time slots people need to sign up for with limited capacity. Etc.
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Milwaukee's testing data is wonky - https://city.milwaukee.gov/coronavirus
Nearly no tests performed for the last week, with a huge number of them being positive. I wonder how this data lag impacts state reporting. As goes the big cities with this kind of thing, so goes the region.
(https://i.imgur.com/LhBJIXn.png)
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Milwaukee's testing data is wonky - https://city.milwaukee.gov/coronavirus
Nearly no tests performed for the last week, with a huge number of them being positive. I wonder how this data lag impacts state reporting. As goes the big cities with this kind of thing, so goes the region.
(https://i.imgur.com/LhBJIXn.png)
So, what is likely happening is that people aren't getting tested because they are not showing symptoms.
Or, we have been lucky and we have suppressed the virus enough through lock downs etc.
Will this hold? Of course, it won't. Don't be silly. We aren't even close to being done here.
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So, what is likely happening is that people aren't getting tested because they are not showing symptoms.
Or, we have been lucky and we have suppressed the virus enough through lock downs etc.
Will this hold? Of course, it won't. Don't be silly. We aren't even close to being done here.
Or, and hear me out, Occam's Razor has been true for over 100 years and continues to be true and there is a data entry issue.
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Or, and hear me out, Occam's Razor has been true for over 100 years and continues to be true and there is a data entry issue.
I struggle to understand what you're disagreeing with here.
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I struggle to understand what you're disagreeing with here.
You came up with a very elaborate (in my eyes) explanation for why the data was wonky and I'm saying there are much more simple answers for why the data is wonky.
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You came up with a very elaborate (in my eyes) explanation for why the data was wonky and I'm saying there are much more simple answers for why the data is wonky.
Such as?
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You came up with a very elaborate (in my eyes) explanation for why the data was wonky and I'm saying there are much more simple answers for why the data is wonky.
I feel like you both missed the * at the bottom of the graphic that literally says "Over the past 2 weeks there has been a delay in tests being reported and therefore this [sic] graphs may falsely inflate the percent positive metric. Data will be updated as it is received"
Now, the reason for delay is up for debate, but the wonky data seems clearly explained by the footnote.
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I feel like you both missed the * at the bottom of the graphic that literally says "Over the past 2 weeks there has been a delay in tests being reported and therefore this [sic] graphs may falsely inflate the percent positive metric. Data will be updated as it is received"
Now, the reason for delay is up for debate, but the wonky data seems clearly explained by the footnote.
I sure did.
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I feel like you both missed the * at the bottom of the graphic that literally says "Over the past 2 weeks there has been a delay in tests being reported and therefore this [sic] graphs may falsely inflate the percent positive metric. Data will be updated as it is received"
Now, the reason for delay is up for debate, but the wonky data seems clearly explained by the footnote.
I absolutely did, but that won't stop me from claiming victory.
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I absolutely did, but that won't stop me from claiming victory.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46dcQE2mzPI
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46dcQE2mzPI
Fantastic song
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One of my favorite bands.
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One of my favorite bands.
Fantastic live and it sucks we can't see them at Irishfest this year
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Saw them on March 9 in a little club. And then....pffft
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I feel like you both missed the * at the bottom of the graphic that literally says "Over the past 2 weeks there has been a delay in tests being reported and therefore this [sic] graphs may falsely inflate the percent positive metric. Data will be updated as it is received"
Now, the reason for delay is up for debate, but the wonky data seems clearly explained by the footnote.
I missed it too.
<tinfoil>
I wonder if this explains why Wisconsin is doing a "really good job," it's a delay in testing reports. The previous two weeks, at any given time, will trend down because Milwaukee hasn't reported yet. By the time numbers get revised up nobody remembers what they were originally so they're just happy to see them come down.
</tinfoil>
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I missed it too.
<tinfoil>
I wonder if this explains why Wisconsin is doing a "really good job," it's a delay in testing reports. The previous two weeks, at any given time, will trend down because Milwaukee hasn't reported yet. By the time numbers get revised up nobody remembers what they were originally so they're just happy to see them come down.
</tinfoil>
I demand the Fair and Benevolent Scoop Overlords create a TinFoil wrapper functionality that instantly makes the enclosed text become shiny silver and a "wave" graphic effect.
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I missed it too.
<tinfoil>
I wonder if this explains why Wisconsin is doing a "really good job," it's a delay in testing reports. The previous two weeks, at any given time, will trend down because Milwaukee hasn't reported yet. By the time numbers get revised up nobody remembers what they were originally so they're just happy to see them come down.
</tinfoil>
Well, and the reverse can be true as well. We're patting ourselves on the back about how well we are doing, and headed back to more opening... but the lag in testing really shows where we were a few days ago. By the time we decide we have a problem, we are already a few days into it... and then there will be debate about what we do to slow the spread again... which is more delay... and then by the time we decide what to do the doubling of cases has gone for at least a week. Depending on the R0 during that time, we could be talking about a few dozen problems, or thousands.
This is the thing we will struggle with as a society in the coming weeks/months. Look no further than what is happening in Beijing currently... and before someone leaps down my throat, obviously, we aren't China and there isn't an analog for Beijing in the US save maybe NYC. But it illustrates how quickly things can get out of hand, and that even with a fast reaction (like China) things will be bad.
Now, I'm not saying all of this will happen for sure, but I'm not sure we have truly learned our lesson on how to deal with this sort of virus, yet.
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Hospitalizations are down again. I suspect that we might have stumbled into a partial solution. Vulnerable/ older people are still staying home. Doing a better job of protecting super vulnerable and folks in residential facilities. Healthier people are getting it and surviving.
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Hospitalizations are down again. I suspect that we might have stumbled into a partial solution. Vulnerable/ older people are still staying home. Doing a better job of protecting super vulnerable and folks in residential facilities. Healthier people are getting it and surviving.
I kinda think this is where we are heading as a society.
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I kinda think this is where we are heading as a society.
Checks out with Florida numbers surging.
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I kinda think this is where we are heading as a society.
Honestly I think this solution was staring us in the face this whole time. Basically have a ratio'd precaution level based on your risk level. Minimum level for all is masks indoors, limit indoor activities by volume and/or time, and keep your circle of human contact reasonably small. Based on your vulnerability you ramp up precautions from there
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Honestly I think this solution was staring us in the face this whole time. Basically have a ratio'd precaution level based on your risk level. Minimum level for all is masks indoors, limit indoor activities by volume and/or time, and keep your circle of human contact reasonably small. Based on your vulnerability you ramp up precautions from there
You are pretty much stating what colleges and universities are trying to do this fall. The problem is that people don't even want to take that minimal precaution.
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Honestly I think this solution was staring us in the face this whole time. Basically have a ratio'd precaution level based on your risk level. Minimum level for all is masks indoors, limit indoor activities by volume and/or time, and keep your circle of human contact reasonably small. Based on your vulnerability you ramp up precautions from there
Sounds too reasonable to work. :P
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This .. pisses me off tremendously.
https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Bill-571300991.html (https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Bill-571300991.html)
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This .. pisses me off tremendously.
https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Bill-571300991.html (https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Bill-571300991.html)
I mean, its DOA.
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This .. pisses me off tremendously.
https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Bill-571300991.html (https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Bill-571300991.html)
Meanwhile, total cases in Marathon county have doubled since June 5th.
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This .. pisses me off tremendously.
https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Bill-571300991.html (https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Bill-571300991.html)
Very predictable though.
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Are you happy now, Supreme Court???
@nbc15_madison: STRIP CLUB OUTBREAK: A COVID-19 outbreak has been confirmed at Cruisin’ Chubbys Gentlemen's Club in Wisconsin Dells, health officials report. https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/COVID-19--571389611.html
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Are you happy now, Supreme Court???
@nbc15_madison: STRIP CLUB OUTBREAK: A COVID-19 outbreak has been confirmed at Cruisin’ Chubbys Gentlemen's Club in Wisconsin Dells, health officials report. https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/COVID-19--571389611.html
This is exactly what i keep saying. Clubs/bars are outbreaks waiting to happen. That is why pro sports can happen if the players stay home during their off time. I am still not sure how college sports will work cause no way you can keep 15-30K 18-23 year olds out of a party or a bar
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Are you happy now, Supreme Court???
@nbc15_madison: STRIP CLUB OUTBREAK: A COVID-19 outbreak has been confirmed at Cruisin’ Chubbys Gentlemen's Club in Wisconsin Dells, health officials report. https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/COVID-19--571389611.html
Here in NC, the governor is taking heat for letting breweries/taprooms open but not letting bars/clubs open. They say that the evidence suggest that bars are more likely to draw big, lingering crowds of people who stay around until the wee hours, get rowdy, talk close, dance close, etc. But it's a pretty fine line and seems a little arbitrary to me. Several of our breweries/taprooms basically are bars, especially on Fri and Sat nights. I will say that, in general, a brewery/taproom crowd is more subdued than a bar crowd, though.
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How is this possible. I was looking for the ESPN (?) commercial where these two dudes are talking about strip joints, and one of them says "All nude" and the other guy says "because that's important." "To be all nude."
How is that not on Youtube? It has completely ruined this post about a COVID outbreak at Crusin' Chubbies.
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Are you happy now, Supreme Court???
@nbc15_madison: STRIP CLUB OUTBREAK: A COVID-19 outbreak has been confirmed at Cruisin’ Chubbys Gentlemen's Club in Wisconsin Dells, health officials report. https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/COVID-19--571389611.html
https://twitter.com/NotRachFace/status/1274430094786867200
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https://twitter.com/NotRachFace/status/1274430094786867200
While the name of the club could be interpreted a few ways, none of them are appealing for a strip club.
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While the name of the club could be interpreted a few ways, none of them are appealing for a strip club.
Pretty accurate for Wisconsin though...
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Pretty accurate for Wisconsin though...
There used to be a strip club in Three Lakes called Weasel's that advertised that they imported their dancers from other states.
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How is this possible. I was looking for the ESPN (?) commercial where these two dudes are talking about strip joints, and one of them says "All nude" and the other guy says "because that's important." "To be all nude."
How is that not on Youtube? It has completely ruined this post about a COVID outbreak at Crusin' Chubbies.
Was is the KG and Marbury ESPN the Mag commercial about tasteful nudes?!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ddKyp9UMWMc
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Was is the KG and Marbury ESPN the Mag commercial about tasteful nudes?!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ddKyp9UMWMc
Man that doesn't age real well.
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Was is the KG and Marbury ESPN the Mag commercial about tasteful nudes?!
YES! My faith in the internets is restored.
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Talked with a friend from Fontana today, he said that both Chuck’s in Fontana and Popeyes in Lake Geneva are temporarily closed due to staff members testing positive.
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Talked with a friend from Fontana today, he said that both Chuck’s in Fontana and Popeyes in Lake Geneva are temporarily closed due to staff members testing positive.
Yep, both closed Friday. Heard Chuck’s was the same, but they’re plowing through.
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A “Herd Immunity” Rock Festival Is Happening in July: Static-X, Nonpoint, Dope, and More to Play
In defiance of health experts, the rock festival goes down in Wisconsin this summer
https://consequenceofsound.net/2020/06/herd-immunity-rock-festival
Hey, Wisconsin, quit trying to be Florida Man!
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A “Herd Immunity” Rock Festival Is Happening in July: Static-X, Nonpoint, Dope, and More to Play
In defiance of health experts, the rock festival goes down in Wisconsin this summer
https://consequenceofsound.net/2020/06/herd-immunity-rock-festival
Hey, Wisconsin, quit trying to be Florida Man!
I'm not exactly into this type of music so I don't know for sure, but in a festival shouldn't there be a headliner? I feel like this is a bunch of Sunday morning acts at Ozzfest 2004
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I'm not exactly into this type of music so I don't know for sure, but in a festival shouldn't there be a headliner? I feel like this is a bunch of Sunday morning acts at Ozzfest 2004
I am not sure Journey or Huey Lewis was available. ;D
(I have no idea either)
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I'm not exactly into this type of music so I don't know for sure, but in a festival shouldn't there be a headliner? I feel like this is a bunch of Sunday morning acts at Ozzfest 2004
I recognize some of these bands because they used to play a festival in Madison, yearly. They're regional journeymen who depend on these festivals to feed their families.
These bands are way past their prime, but when you are in Northern Wisconsin, you take what you can get.
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I'm not exactly into this type of music so I don't know for sure, but in a festival shouldn't there be a headliner? I feel like this is a bunch of Sunday morning acts at Ozzfest 2004
The Q&Z Expo Center in Ringle, Wisconsin is a glorified VFW Hall.
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I recognize some of these bands because they used to play a festival in Madison, yearly. They're regional journeymen who depend on these festivals to feed their families.
These bands are way past their prime, but when you are in Northern Wisconsin, you take what you can get.
The biggest name is Static X...which was build around and driven by Wayne Static...who died like 6-7 years ago. And now the band is reformed by former band members, most of whom weren’t even in the band when he died. So that should tell you the level of this festival
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The biggest name is Static X...which was build around and driven by Wayne Static...who died like 6-7 years ago. And now the band is reformed by former band members, most of whom weren’t even in the band when he died. So that should tell you the level of this festival
Right! I guess Nonpoint would have been considered the headliner, but they dropped out when the heat came.
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Huge event in Wisconsin. Anybody going? Wearing a mask or not?
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Alwayz where protection, aina?
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Alwayz where protection, aina?
*protektshun
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*protektshun
That got a true LOL! ;D ;D ;D
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https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2020/06/25/wisconsin-coronavirus-464-more-cases-percent-positive-4-1/3259140001/ (https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2020/06/25/wisconsin-coronavirus-464-more-cases-percent-positive-4-1/3259140001/)
I hesitate to even post anything here because everything just turns into a political pissing match... but 464 more positive cases in WI on Thursday. Positive test rate was 4.1% which is up a bit from when it was under 3% in early June, however hospitalizations are actually DOWN from early June. So it's a pretty fair assumption that a decent amount of the positive tests are asymptomatic. 9 deaths were attributed to COVID.
Is this not somewhat good news? The percentage of positive tests is still pretty low- much lower than back in May- and hospitalizations & deaths are still staying down. If 2-3 weeks from now the hospitalization & death numbers are still down, I would say that's a pretty good sign, right? I guess we'll wait to see what happens.
WI has been pretty much open as normal in many areas for nearly 2 months, so I view these as fairly promising figures.
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https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2020/06/25/wisconsin-coronavirus-464-more-cases-percent-positive-4-1/3259140001/ (https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2020/06/25/wisconsin-coronavirus-464-more-cases-percent-positive-4-1/3259140001/)
I hesitate to even post anything here because everything just turns into a political pissing match... but 464 more positive cases in WI on Thursday. Positive test rate was 4.1% which is up a bit from when it was under 3% in early June, however hospitalizations are actually DOWN from early June. So it's a pretty fair assumption that a decent amount of the positive tests are asymptomatic. 9 deaths were attributed to COVID.
Is this not somewhat good news? The percentage of positive tests is still pretty low- much lower than back in May- and hospitalizations & deaths are still staying down. If 2-3 weeks from now the hospitalization & death numbers are still down, I would say that's a pretty good sign, right? I guess we'll wait to see what happens.
WI has been pretty much open as normal in many areas for nearly 2 months, so I view these as fairly promising figures.
It's hard to know. Positive cases don't always end up in hospital beds, and there is a lag time between a positive diagnosis and hospitilization.
This is crux of the problem with this virus. Things can get really bad in the next two weeks but by the time we have reacted as a society we're already looking at two weeks of spread with no interventions. We really need to wise up, and realize that while we are different from Texas, Florida, and Arizona... we are not immune.
Wear your masks, and wash your hands... otherwise we will see another April.
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It's hard to know. Positive cases don't always end up in hospital beds, and there is a lag time between a positive diagnosis and hospitilization.
This is crux of the problem with this virus. Things can get really bad in the next two weeks but by the time we have reacted as a society we're already looking at two weeks of spread with no interventions. We really need to wise up, and realize that while we are different from Texas, Florida, and Arizona... we are not immune.
Wear your masks, and wash your hands... otherwise we will see another April.
I would say it's more likely positive cases rarely end up in hospital beds. I think it's pretty obvious we still don't have a good grasp on the virus. Every day there are new headlines about how many new positive cases there are but it's really hard to understand what that means. Are these people sick? Or did they just get tested because they had to? Are there more positive cases now than there were in March/April? We don't know because there wasn't widespread testing then.
I really wonder how many positive tests there would've been in March/April had testing been as widespread as it is now. The CDC themselves said it's likely there could be as much as 10x more people with Covid than have tested positive. If that's the case, it means the hospitalization and death rates are extremely low.
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I would say it's more likely positive cases rarely end up in hospital beds. I think it's pretty obvious we still don't have a good grasp on the virus. Every day there are new headlines about how many new positive cases there are but it's really hard to understand what that means. Are these people sick? Or did they just get tested because they had to? Are there more positive cases now than there were in March/April? We don't know because there wasn't widespread testing then.
I really wonder how many positive tests there would've been in March/April had testing been as widespread as it is now. The CDC themselves said it's likely there could be as much as 10x more people with Covid than have tested positive. If that's the case, it means the hospitalization and death rates are extremely low.
I don't know about Wisconsin, but in other places you still are screened before getting tested. No fever, no test. So the number of true asymptomatic individuals being tested is likely lower than you are assuming. What is likely true, is that we are testing earlier in disease progression, so there will be longer lags between testing positive and being hospitalized, if necessary.
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Yeah, it's pretty obvious that when cases go up, hospitalizations follow. And this is the big problem with this disease. Sure it doesn't impact young, healthy people as much, but look what is happening in places like Houston. ICU beds are quickly filling up. Yeah the hospitalization *rate* might be falling, but the sheer number of people who are hospitalized is alarming. Plus with the two week lag, the worse is yet to come.
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https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2020/06/25/wisconsin-coronavirus-464-more-cases-percent-positive-4-1/3259140001/ (https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2020/06/25/wisconsin-coronavirus-464-more-cases-percent-positive-4-1/3259140001/)
I hesitate to even post anything here because everything just turns into a political pissing match... but 464 more positive cases in WI on Thursday. Positive test rate was 4.1% which is up a bit from when it was under 3% in early June, however hospitalizations are actually DOWN from early June. So it's a pretty fair assumption that a decent amount of the positive tests are asymptomatic. 9 deaths were attributed to COVID.
Is this not somewhat good news? The percentage of positive tests is still pretty low- much lower than back in May- and hospitalizations & deaths are still staying down. If 2-3 weeks from now the hospitalization & death numbers are still down, I would say that's a pretty good sign, right? I guess we'll wait to see what happens.
WI has been pretty much open as normal in many areas for nearly 2 months, so I view these as fairly promising figures.
I agree with you I try to see the positive.
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I would say it's more likely positive cases rarely end up in hospital beds. I think it's pretty obvious we still don't have a good grasp on the virus. Every day there are new headlines about how many new positive cases there are but it's really hard to understand what that means. Are these people sick? Or did they just get tested because they had to? Are there more positive cases now than there were in March/April? We don't know because there wasn't widespread testing then.
I really wonder how many positive tests there would've been in March/April had testing been as widespread as it is now. The CDC themselves said it's likely there could be as much as 10x more people with Covid than have tested positive. If that's the case, it means the hospitalization and death rates are extremely low.
Grimm I think some of what you say is positive.
I don’t live in WI—are they randomly testing to find asymptomatic carriers?
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Just talked to the head of a local health system today.
Things hospital wise are good in Wisconsin, but local health officials are alarmed at the climbing number of positive tests in Wisconsin and what it will mean in the next month or so. And they're really pissed at Florida and Texas because eventually that will spread elsewhere.
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Just talked to the head of a local health system today.
Things hospital wise are good in Wisconsin, but local health officials are alarmed at the climbing number of positive tests in Wisconsin and what it will mean in the next month or so. And they're really pissed at Florida and Texas because eventually that will spread elsewhere.
yeah, but was he/she an "expert"?
reaper had the post of the day! anyone who thinks they know jack about this, doesn't. all they can do is surmise based on what we do know from the past 4-6 months. we haven't been thru a pandemic of this sort in our modern day. problem #1-we are 5 months from a major election. problem #2-we are 5 months from a .......
it seems until everyone has had this damn virus in some form or another, and/or we have form of vaccine or antidote, this damn bug isn't going to go away like some of the others have. so, until then, we all have to learn how to cope with and around this thing because we sure in the hell can't afford to shut everything down again. whether or not this virus was planted on purpose or it is the "thing" that came alive, nature does have it's way of thinning the population. yes, it sounds cruel, but until we win the battles biologically, this will forever (no pun dude :D)hold true
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yeah, but was he/she an "expert"?
reaper had the post of the day! anyone who thinks they know jack about this, doesn't. all they can do is surmise based on what we do know from the past 4-6 months. we haven't been thru a pandemic of this sort in our modern day. problem #1-we are 5 months from a major election. problem #2-we are 5 months from a .......
it seems until everyone has had this damn virus in some form or another, and/or we have form of vaccine or antidote, this damn bug isn't going to go away like some of the others have. so, until then, we all have to learn how to cope with and around this thing because we sure in the hell can't afford to shut everything down again. whether or not this virus was planted on purpose or it is the "thing" that came alive, nature does have it's way of thinning the population. yes, it sounds cruel, but until we win the battles biologically, this will forever (no pun dude :D)hold true
You single dude? You'd get along great with my aunt that lives just West of the Phoenix metro area in the hills.
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Grimm I think some of what you say is positive.
I don’t live in WI—are they randomly testing to find asymptomatic carriers?
A lot of people are getting randomly tested as a requirement to go back to work or folks that got wrapped up in contact tracings.
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Grimm I think some of what you say is positive.
I don’t live in WI—are they randomly testing to find asymptomatic carriers?
Also think if you’re going in for an elective surgery they are requiring you get tested as well. From what I understand those are the 3 main buckets of increased testing that are finding all these asymptomatic cases.
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My friend who works for UW health is getting alerts that beds are filling. So thats bad.
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Also think if you’re going in for an elective surgery they are requiring you get tested as well. From what I understand those are the 3 main buckets of increased testing that are finding all these asymptomatic cases.
That’s happening everywhere in the developed world (work tests, attempts at contact tracing and surgery). So I wouldn’t necessarily take it as a positive anomaly.
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My friend who works for UW health is getting alerts that beds are filling. So thats bad.
https://www.wha.org/Covid-19Update
I have bunch of friends who work at UW and beds have been full for weeks. And way more then 90% of their inpatient population was there for no Covid reasons.
Wisconsin health system is in a great spot as it relates to Covid today.
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My friend who works for UW health is getting alerts that beds are filling. So thats bad.
UW health is filling up, because they are back to normal operating. I think they had about a dozen COVID as of Friday.
My hospital tests EVERY patient admitted, every surgical procedure, anyone suspected in the ED. We’ve had one patient, asymptotic, admitted for something else. So there goes the theory that death records were being falsified.
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Two days in a row with no COVID deaths in Wisconsin.
Fingers crossed.
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Two days in a row with no COVID deaths in Wisconsin.
Fingers crossed.
👍👍hospitalizations and icu admissions are stable as well, hopefully it continues to inch down despite the rise in positive case counts.
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For people smarter than me, rank these outcomes from most to least likely for me.
This will just disappear over time (the next year, let’s say).
We find a treatment that is “good enough.”
We find a vaccine that is “good enough.”
Herd immunity is a thing and everyone contracts it at some point.
We will need to social distance and avoid large crowds for the next decade plus.
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For people smarter than me, rank these outcomes from most to least likely for me.
This will just disappear over time (the next year, let’s say).
We find a treatment that is “good enough.”
We find a vaccine that is “good enough.”
Herd immunity is a thing and everyone contracts it at some point.
We will need to social distance and avoid large crowds for the next decade plus.
Treatment
Vaccine
Disappear
Herd Immunity
Ten years
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Treatment
Vaccine
Disappear
Herd Immunity
Ten years
That's where I'd put them as well.
Unfortunately, our best hope was this thing mutating and losing potency, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen.
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That's where I'd put them as well.
Unfortunately, our best hope was this thing mutating and losing potency, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen.
Actually that makes it much more likely a vaccine will A) be developed and B) have long term immunization impact.
I'd reverse treatment and vaccine but otherwise the list is accurate IMO.
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For people smarter than me, rank these outcomes from most to least likely for me.
This will just disappear over time (the next year, let’s say).
We find a treatment that is “good enough.”
We find a vaccine that is “good enough.”
Herd immunity is a thing and everyone contracts it at some point.
We will need to social distance and avoid large crowds for the next decade plus.
1. Vaccine, but you might need to get it 1 to 2 times every year.
2. Herd immunity, with the hope that successive infections after immunity lapses are milder infections.
3. Treatment that is "good enough," simply because social distance/avoid large groups is irrelevant with item 2 (we'll get herd immunity first).
4. Social distance/avoid crowds. Some element of this is going to be around for segments of our population for awhile, unless 1 is achieved.
5. Don't see how this just goes away at this point.
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Conversation with a local health leader yesterday afternoon. He says the lack of a state-wide, coordinated plan is going to be disasterous by the end of summer. The various local counties have a wide dispartity on how they are managing things, and with the travel season in full force, the idea that you can manage this locally is nonsense.
Particularly concerning are the young, 20-somethings but also the older people heading up north to counties whose public health departments are nowhere near sophisticated enough to manage this.
We have failed as a nation, but we have REALLY failed as a state.
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Conversation with a local health leader yesterday afternoon. He says the lack of a state-wide, coordinated plan is going to be disasterous by the end of summer. The various local counties have a wide dispartity on how they are managing things, and with the travel season in full force, the idea that you can manage this locally is nonsense.
Particularly concerning are the young, 20-somethings but also the older people heading up north to counties whose public health departments are nowhere near sophisticated enough to manage this.
We have failed as a nation, but we have REALLY failed as a state.
That's what I've been saying. And you know who isn't taking the virus serious? The folks up north. Sure, it starts at young people at bars. Then they spread it to family and friends. And those folks go on vacation to the Northwoods and spread it to the workers there more easily (due to lack of mask wearing) or other patrons at bars and restaurants.
It isn't hard to figure out how this is an incoming disaster for rural and Northern Wisconsin.
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That's what I've been saying. And you know who isn't taking the virus serious? The folks up north. Sure, it starts at young people at bars. Then they spread it to family and friends. And those folks go on vacation to the Northwoods and spread it to the workers there more easily (due to lack of mask wearing) or other patrons at bars and restaurants.
It isn't hard to figure out how this is an incoming disaster for rural and Northern Wisconsin.
I had a lengthy conversation with my counterpart in my sister plant in Appleton yesterday. He expressed the exact same thing and was upset about it.
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Conversation with a local health leader yesterday afternoon. He says the lack of a state-wide, coordinated plan is going to be disasterous by the end of summer. The various local counties have a wide dispartity on how they are managing things, and with the travel season in full force, the idea that you can manage this locally is nonsense.
Particularly concerning are the young, 20-somethings but also the older people heading up north to counties whose public health departments are nowhere near sophisticated enough to manage this.
We have failed as a nation, but we have REALLY failed as a state.
Who is preventing us from having a plan?
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Who is preventing us from having a plan?
Honestly, both parties talk right past each other. The Democrats make declarations they know the courts will smack down. The Republicans fight every attempt at a lock down. It is Wisconsin to its core. Both parties look for as many 'wins' as they can, and in the end we all lose.
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Honestly, both parties talk right past each other. The Democrats make declarations they know the courts will smack down. The Republicans fight every attempt at a lock down. It is Wisconsin to its core. Both parties look for as many 'wins' as they can, and in the end we all lose.
I think you are wrong, Hards. Wisconsin had a plan and it was working. One side decided to stop the plan. One side is stopping the implementation of a new plan.
We saw this occur even before the inauguration when one side took away powers of the new gov even before he was sworn in. Then we saw one side force people to risk their lives to exercise their voting rights.
Sadly, Evers appears to have given up fighting this fight as he knows whatever he tries will be struck down in court anyway. My fault with him is that he should continue to fight for the health of Wisconsin citizens anyway. He knows That one side will buck anything he does. He needs to man up and do what is right anyway.
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Mary Spicuzza
@MSpicuzzaMJS
Wisconsin health officials are urging people to stay home for Fourth of July weekend, warning Wisconsin has seen a recent surge in cases, with nearly 20% of the state's COVID-19 cases testing positive in the last two weeks & half of all positive cases within the past 5 weeks.
Mary Spicuzza
@MSpicuzzaMJS
Wisconsin @GovEvers: "This message is especially important for younger people to hear. We know this is a time people like to celebrate with friends, but COVID-19 is still spreading in our state, and we need everyone to take the necessary precautions."
But of course they can't actually CLOSE the bars in this state. So we are going to rely on people doing this voluntarily.
What a f*cking disaster.
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I think you are wrong, Hards. Wisconsin had a plan and it was working. One side decided to stop the plan. One side is stopping the implementation of a new plan.
We saw this occur even before the inauguration when one side took away powers of the new gov even before he was sworn in. Then we saw one side force people to risk their lives to exercise their voting rights.
Sadly, Evers appears to have given up fighting this fight as he knows whatever he tries will be struck down in court anyway. My fault with him is that he should continue to fight for the health of Wisconsin citizens anyway. He knows That one side will buck anything he does. He needs to man up and do what is right anyway.
I understand. But Evers overreached, and the courts agreed. Evers isn't the king of Wisconsin, and they have a right to check his power. You'd be equally pissed if the situations were reversed and Walker overreached. Right?
The problem with the Democrats is that they are and have been totally ineffective at using PR to accomplish their goals. As a person of above average intelligence (flex!), I can't understand why Evers isn't asking for a public meeting with the congressional leaders so that everyone can sit down and figure out our way forward. If they say no, then they've given Evers political ammo. If they say yes, Evers looks like he is doing his best to cooperate and reach across the aisle. Instead, what do we get? Uhhhh nothing. Cuomo understands that the media is a tool. Evers doesn't, and seems to have given up. Great leadership indeed. And this is coming from a liberal.
I get that you want to blame only the Republicans, but there is a reality in this state that no amount of complaining or blaming will change. We have a Republican majority in congress. It would seem that the plan here is to do nothing until November and hope that the election flips congress. And that isn't happening.
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-republicans-look-to-flip-6-seats-for-veto-proof-legislative-majority/article_a20fa78d-129c-5369-aa97-42d235e3a334.html
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The problem with the Democrats is that they are and have been totally ineffective at using PR to accomplish their goals.
I repeat, Democrats are terrible at messaging.
The biggest damage being done to Trump this election cycle--beyond the massive unforced self-inflicted wounds--is coming from anti-Trump Republican groups.
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I repeat, Democrats are terrible at messaging.
The biggest damage being done to Trump this election cycle--beyond the massive unforced self-inflicted wounds--is coming from anti-Trump Republican groups.
You and Hards are 100% correct. I think the main reason is that they don’t want to offend people who would never vote for them anyway. Hence, they never put their true message out there.
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I understand. But Evers overreached, and the courts agreed. Evers isn't the king of Wisconsin, and they have a right to check his power. You'd be equally pissed if the situations were reversed and Walker overreached. Right?
The problem with the Democrats is that they are and have been totally ineffective at using PR to accomplish their goals. As a person of above average intelligence (flex!), I can't understand why Evers isn't asking for a public meeting with the congressional leaders so that everyone can sit down and figure out our way forward. If they say no, then they've given Evers political ammo. If they say yes, Evers looks like he is doing his best to cooperate and reach across the aisle. Instead, what do we get? Uhhhh nothing. Cuomo understands that the media is a tool. Evers doesn't, and seems to have given up. Great leadership indeed. And this is coming from a liberal.
I get that you want to blame only the Republicans, but there is a reality in this state that no amount of complaining or blaming will change. We have a Republican majority in congress. It would seem that the plan here is to do nothing until November and hope that the election flips congress. And that isn't happening.
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-republicans-look-to-flip-6-seats-for-veto-proof-legislative-majority/article_a20fa78d-129c-5369-aa97-42d235e3a334.html
Well said Hards.
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I repeat, Democrats are terrible at messaging.
The biggest damage being done to Trump this election cycle--beyond the massive unforced self-inflicted wounds--is coming from anti-Trump Republican groups.
I was talking to my buddy, who happens to be African American. Obviously he’s ardently against the current administration and is focused on November regardless of candidate. We were talking against messaging and he’s just baffled. He pointed to the PR push of a VP candidate like Kamala or Stacey Adams. The first, and very certainly the latter is an angle for the AA vote. His response “those people were never going to vote for Trump, and if the concern is voter turnout, why not hammer issues important to them instead of a token VP candidate, cause that certainly isn’t gonna motivate my 65 year old aunt to go vote when she never does”
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I was talking to my buddy, who happens to be African American. Obviously he’s ardently against the current administration and is focused on November regardless of candidate. We were talking against messaging and he’s just baffled. He pointed to the PR push of a VP candidate like Kamala or Stacey Adams. The first, and very certainly the latter is an angle for the AA vote. His response “those people were never going to vote for Trump, and if the concern is voter turnout, why not hammer issues important to them instead of a token VP candidate, cause that certainly isn’t gonna motivate my 65 year old aunt to go vote when she never does”
It's much more about the female thing than the black thing.
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Treatment
Heard immunity/disappear (same thing)
Vaccine
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Cubs win the series again
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Brewers make it to the series
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Ten years (this one will literally never happen)
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I was talking to my buddy, who happens to be African American. Obviously he’s ardently against the current administration and is focused on November regardless of candidate. We were talking against messaging and he’s just baffled. He pointed to the PR push of a VP candidate like Kamala or Stacey Adams. The first, and very certainly the latter is an angle for the AA vote. His response “those people were never going to vote for Trump, and if the concern is voter turnout, why not hammer issues important to them instead of a token VP candidate, cause that certainly isn’t gonna motivate my 65 year old aunt to go vote when she never does”
Never heard of Stacey Adams.
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Wades would know that Stacey Adams shoes were popular with African-Americans. I used to sell them, back in the day, on 20th and Fond du Lac Ave. while working my way through school.
#privileged
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Never heard of Stacey Adams.
That was a pretty amazing auto correct I didn’t catch, especially since I had to fight my phone twice to spell Stacey with an E
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Wades would know that Stacey Adams shoes were popular with African-Americans. I used to sell them, back in the day, on 20th and Fond du Lac Ave. while working my way through school.
#privileged
Good thing you got out of that life, hey doc?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CBObjmcJO_t/?igshid=1dvnidwmpleb4
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That was a pretty amazing auto correct I didn’t catch, especially since I had to fight my phone twice to spell Stacey with an E
I wasn’t calling you out, Wags. Just bein’ My usual snarky self. I knew who you were referring to.
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That was a pretty amazing auto correct I didn’t catch, especially since I had to fight my phone twice to spell Stacey with an E
I feel your pain.
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I feel your pain.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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spent a few hours in a gym this weekend for an aau hoops tournament. 8 courts in 2 buildings. players on lower level 10 spectators per team in the upper level. Masks required inside temperature checks outside. players and coaches used separate doors. did not feel much different than a normal aau tournament except they cleared out the gym between games
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Still going on in Wisconsin.
Republicans in court to get restaurants at 100% capacity, as well as eliminating guidelines on cleaning procedures and social distancing in stores.
The first court ruled in their favor. Appeals judge overturned that until full court rules on it.
This is exactly the reason for massive outbreaks across the country. Is common sense dead?
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(https://i.chzbgr.com/original/8202475520/hFBD76929/)
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Is common sense dead?
There are many indications that it is.
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Gov. Tony Evers signaled Tuesday he might try to require Wisconsin residents to wear face masks to address a new surge of coronavirus cases — after previously taking the position he didn't have the authority to do so.
Evers, who wore a face mask during a briefing with reporters, said he's considering a mask mandate but said it's unclear whether it would stick after a state Supreme Court ruling in May that tossed out much of his stay-at-home order and put his authority to issue statewide orders in question.
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Gov. Tony Evers signaled Tuesday he might try to require Wisconsin residents to wear face masks to address a new surge of coronavirus cases — after previously taking the position he didn't have the authority to do so.
Evers, who wore a face mask during a briefing with reporters, said he's considering a mask mandate but said it's unclear whether it would stick after a state Supreme Court ruling in May that tossed out much of his stay-at-home order and put his authority to issue statewide orders in question.
He has the power for an emergency order up to 30 days no? Wait til Friday and throw the switch.
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So if a mask order was in place would that mean any indoor sport the players would need to wear a mask? Thinking basketball or volleyball?
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So if a mask order was in place would that mean any indoor sport the players would need to wear a mask? Thinking basketball or volleyball?
Can't speak for Wisconsin, but Illinois' mask order allows you to remove the mask while exercising or playing sports.
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Wisconsin voting:
https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/1281220374663966725?s=19
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Wisconsin voting:
https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/1281220374663966725?s=19
Tweet is unavailable
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Tweet is unavailable
Hmm...not sure why...it is still there. Let's try again:
https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/1281220636975812608?s=19
“Wisconsin Republicans won just 46% of vote in 2018 but gained 64% seats in assembly & used their ill-gotten power through gerrymandering & voter suppression to strip power from Dem gov & AG in lame duck coup“
https://apnews.com/7f4d0febeebae77e13f07b8d1effec5d?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow
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What the WI GOP is doing is objectively ethically reprehensible, but Evers is just the worst spokesperson for this moment - he'll gently complain all of it in his very bland style and the GOP will continue walking all over him. His best qualification is he's Not Scott Walker. Someone should primary him.
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What the WI GOP is doing is objectively ethically reprehensible, but Evers is just the worst spokesperson for this moment - he'll gently complain all of it in his very bland style and the GOP will continue walking all over him. His best qualification is he's Not Scott Walker. Someone should primary him.
sounds like Biden - He is not Trump
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Indeed .. I have and will keep voting for Evers, but .. he's not been impressive.
I would prefer no primary .. but that he just decides not to run for a 2nd term.
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sounds like Biden - He is not Trump
And I'm reasonably certain that he will not run a second time if he wins. And may not even finish out his first term.
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And I'm reasonably certain that he will not run a second time if he wins. And may not even finish out his first term.
Why?
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Indeed .. I have and will keep voting for Evers, but .. he's not been impressive.
I would prefer no primary .. but that he just decides not to run for a 2nd term.
Agreed.
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I wonder what GOP figures will be lining up to run for governor.
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I wonder what GOP figures will be lining up to run for governor.
Wonder if Paul Ryan has interest. Though I doubt it
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Wonder if Paul Ryan has interest. Though I doubt it
Wasn't he desperately trying to be the diplomat to his "homeland" boy hell be disappointed to learn it's no longer the Catholic, Uber conservative third world country his great great great great great great grandfather left.
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Who would you like to see run, if he steps back?
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Wonder if Paul Ryan has interest. Though I doubt it
He was on track to potentially lose his home district. His odds of running for governor hover just above zero.
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He was on track to potentially lose his home district. His odds of running for governor hover just above zero.
Uhh .. the numbers don't bear that out, his district is safely GOP.
His GOP successor won by 19 points. Trump won that district by 11. Ryan would have absolutely won without much effort.
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Uhh .. the numbers don't bear that out, his district is safely GOP.
His GOP successor won by 19 points. Trump won that district by 11. Ryan would have absolutely won without much effort.
Yeah you're right. But Steil only won by 12 :-P
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Yeah you're right. But Steil only won by 12 :-P
12, right you are. I'd grabbed the wrong number.
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From my J/Sonline news feed:
Wisconsin reported 1,117 new COVID-19 cases Tuesday, a new record and the first time the state has exceeded 1,000 cases confirmed in a single day since the beginning of the pandemic.
The state also recorded the highest daily case count of all its Midwestern neighbors — exceeding Illinois' 955, Minnesota's 352, Iowa's 512 and Michigan's 573.
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From my J/Sonline news feed:
Wisconsin reported 1,117 new COVID-19 cases Tuesday, a new record and the first time the state has exceeded 1,000 cases confirmed in a single day since the beginning of the pandemic.
The state also recorded the highest daily case count of all its Midwestern neighbors — exceeding Illinois' 955, Minnesota's 352, Iowa's 512 and Michigan's 573.
Stay-at-home not allowed. Mandatory masks not allowed. Gathering size limits not allowed.
Worst of all, too many people don’t care. Crowds everywhere. Masks rarely seen except in stores that make entrance contingent on people wearing them. Maybe wearing cheese on our heads makes us act as stupid as we look.
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Stay-at-home not allowed. Mandatory masks not allowed. Gathering size limits not allowed.
Worst of all, too many people don’t care. Crowds everywhere. Masks rarely seen except in stores that make entrance contingent on people wearing them. Maybe wearing cheese on our heads makes us act as stupid as we look.
This is flat out wrong most places, especially in Milwaukee County now that they have mandatory mask regulations in place. Making broad assessments based on a few things you see around you or thinking that the state should lock down/stay at home again when we are nowhere near a critical danger zone in hospitalizations or deaths is not helpful hyperbole.
More aggressive mask regulations are a good step and should stem the tide of new cases. In the grand scheme of things, in both absolute and per capita metrics, Wisconsin is still in a very manageable place comparatively.
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This is flat out wrong most places, especially in Milwaukee County now that they have mandatory mask regulations in place. Making broad assessments based on a few things you see around you or thinking that the state should lock down/stay at home again when we are nowhere near a critical danger zone in hospitalizations or deaths is not helpful hyperbole.
More aggressive mask regulations are a good step and should stem the tide of new cases. In the grand scheme of things, in both absolute and per capita metrics, Wisconsin is still in a very manageable place comparatively.
Actually, I am for opening up in Wisconsin more than we are doing. Mandatory masks statewide would help.
We could open almost all schools if we had temperature checks at every school. We could open more businesses, bars, and restaurants in they had temp checks. It wouldn’t ease everyone’s minds, but it would help.
I’m over 60, but have ever spent a day in the hospital in my life. I’ve only had the flu a few times and many years don’t get even a cold. I haven’t been in a restaurant since March, but would consider going if there were checks at the door.
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I was on COVID last week, by far the busiest week I’ve had. Out of all of the patients I saw, 80% came from hospitals outside of Dane County. I feel like it’s spreading to more rural areas, which are generally less healthy. Not a good sign...
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Today, Racine Common Counsil passed mandatory mask regulation starting on Monday and extending through December 31st. The ordinance will require face coverings to be worn over the nose and mouth by everyone in an indoor or outdoor “public space.
About time. We know this is the most effective way to stop spread (today was highest number of new cases since Covid started).
My guess is that if people follow the ordinance, it won’t need to stay in effect that long. Too bad we can’t do this for the entire state instead of dinking around with half measures. Time to get serious.
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https://www.nbc15.com/2020/07/21/study-wisconsin-has-2nd-fewest-restrictions-9th-lowest-number-of-deaths-from-covid-19-in-us/
Despite all the doom and gloom regarding holding in person voting, the SC decision to strike down stay at home, people being in bars, etc....we’re still doing a helluva job when compared to others.
Great job Wisconsinites!!
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https://www.nbc15.com/2020/07/21/study-wisconsin-has-2nd-fewest-restrictions-9th-lowest-number-of-deaths-from-covid-19-in-us/
Despite all the doom and gloom regarding holding in person voting, the SC decision to strike down stay at home, people being in bars, etc....we’re still doing a helluva job when compared to others.
Great job Wisconsinites!!
> New study from Wallethub
You're kidding, right?
Wisconsin's deaths per 100k (14.4) is worse than Texas (14), and Texas has large cities.
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https://www.nbc15.com/2020/07/21/study-wisconsin-has-2nd-fewest-restrictions-9th-lowest-number-of-deaths-from-covid-19-in-us/
Despite all the doom and gloom regarding holding in person voting, the SC decision to strike down stay at home, people being in bars, etc....we’re still doing a helluva job when compared to others.
Great job Wisconsinites!!
Talk to us in a month. Cases are going up...which will be followed by hospitalizations...then deaths.
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Today, Racine Common Counsil passed mandatory mask regulation starting on Monday and extending through December 31st. The ordinance will require face coverings to be worn over the nose and mouth by everyone in an indoor or outdoor “public space.
Ditto Green Bay.
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> New study from Wallethub
You're kidding, right?
Wisconsin's deaths per 100k (14.4) is worse than Texas (14), and Texas has large cities.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
You’re not wrong in that our death per million is comparable to Texas. But that’s not a bad thing, Texas has done a helluva job in preventing death as it relates to Covid so far.
I saw a stat saying something along the lines of if you add up all the deaths in Florida, Texas, and Arizona it is far less then the number of deaths in just NYC with far greater the population when the 3 of those states are combined.
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Talk to us in a month. Cases are going up...which will be followed by hospitalizations...then deaths.
Could happen....or our medical professionals have a better handle on how to treat and it won’t, neither of us know for sure.
I’ll be cheering/praying for the positive outcome.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
You’re not wrong in that our death per million is comparable to Texas. But that’s not a bad thing, Texas has done a helluva job in preventing death as it relates to Covid so far.
https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2020/07/20/texas-covid-19-death-rate-up-more-than-300-since-june-1-report-shows/
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https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2020/07/20/texas-covid-19-death-rate-up-more-than-300-since-june-1-report-shows/
Sure they were avg about the same number of deaths as we were back in May with far greater population and now they’re in the thick of it with their outbreak so of course numbers across all metrics will go up.
Never said they weren’t seeing increasing numbers but relative to other outbreaks around the country they are doing a great job in preventing death.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
You’re not wrong in that our death per million is comparable to Texas. But that’s not a bad thing, Texas has done a helluva job in preventing death as it relates to Covid so far.
I saw a stat saying something along the lines of if you add up all the deaths in Florida, Texas, and Arizona it is far less then the number of deaths in just NYC with far greater the population when the 3 of those states are combined.
Sigh. You're comparing 3 states worth of deaths after some treatment is known to the densest city in the US at the start of the outbreak.
Just... don't.
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Sure they were avg about the same number of deaths as we were back in May with far greater population and now they’re in the thick of it with their outbreak so of course numbers across all metrics will go up.
Never said they weren’t seeing increasing numbers but relative to other outbreaks around the country they are doing a great job in preventing death.
Everyone is doing a great job at preventing death because we know so much more about treating it and are better prepared than four months ago. Texas isn't doing anything special or deserving of praise. They're just the beneficiaries of timing.
And far more testing is going in today than in March and April, which lowers the death rate.
Also, big shock, Texas is undercounting.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/As-COVID-19-continues-to-slam-Houston-the-death-15400462.php
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Everyone is doing a great job at preventing death because we know so much more about treating it and are better prepared than four months ago. Texas isn't doing anything special or deserving of praise. They're just the beneficiaries of timing.
And far more testing is going in today than in March and April, which lowers the death rate.
Also, big shock, Texas is undercounting.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/As-COVID-19-continues-to-slam-Houston-the-death-15400462.php
They think the Three-Fifths Compromise is still in place[color]
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We were saddened to discover this morning that Ken Kuemmerlein @ Steny's died from the virus. We rode the Steny's shuttle to MU games several years with him as our driver. He was also very active coaching in the Special Olympics.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2020/07/21/ken-kuemmerlein-special-olympics-coach-and-heart-stenys-dies-covid-19/5480627002/
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https://www.wpr.org/covid-19-cases-wisconsin-nursing-homes-increase-community-spread
We're back to killing our old people. Spread is still spread.
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Special village meeting for a mask ordinance tomorrow.
I will be voting yea.
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Special village meeting for a mask ordinance tomorrow.
I will be voting yea.
WI GOP gonna take you to court
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WI GOP gonna take you to court
So make them do it. Get them on record.
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WI GOP gonna take you to court
Result would be the same, but I think someone from the county would have to file suit.
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So make them do it. Get them on record.
This is the thing that gets me with the current WI administration. Do what is right. Let them have blood on their hands
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WI GOP gonna take you to court
Have they taken Milwaukee to court?
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This is the thing that gets me with the current WI administration. Do what is right. Let them have blood on their hands
He did.
They do.
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Special village meeting for a mask ordinance tomorrow.
I will be voting yea.
As a resident, thanks!
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Have they taken Milwaukee to court?
Poor joke
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Racine to decide on school plan on Friday. Expecting a hybrid approach.
My daughter (a teacher) was in tears today as she told me she knows she won’t be able to come over if she is back in the classroom. For who knows how long.
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Racine to decide on school plan on Friday. Expecting a hybrid approach.
My daughter (a teacher) was in tears today as she told me she knows she won’t be able to come over if she is back in the classroom. For who knows how long.
Why won’t she be able to come over? Has she come over at all in the last 5 months?
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Why won’t she be able to come over? Has she come over at all in the last 5 months?
My guess is she hasn’t been in an enclosed classroom with 30 kids in it.
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Why won’t she be able to come over? Has she come over at all in the last 5 months?
She comes over 4-5 times a week. Lives 4 blocks from us.
I won’t waste my time answering your other question.
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As a resident, thanks!
Public comment has been about 95 to 5 pro-mask.
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Public comment has been about 95 to 5 pro-mask.
I can say that our state was early to masking regulation - pretty broad compliance. There are still people that feel the need to not wear a mask or harass those that choose to do so (here like everywhere).
I think it helped business owners to some degree. It gives the store-owner someone to blame to de-escalate those situations. 'Hey buddy/lady, take it up with the Governor if you dont like it. My hands are tied'
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I can say that our state was early to masking regulation - pretty broad compliance. There are still people that feel the need to not wear a mask or harass those that choose to do so (here like everywhere).
I think it helped business owners to some degree. It gives the store-owner someone to blame to de-escalate those situations. 'Hey buddy/lady, take it up with the Governor if you dont like it. My hands are tied'
I do a fair share of business in Lake Country in western Waukesha county and many stores have gone to mask mandates. Watched a store assistant manager take an angry phone call yesterday from a customer and he handled it quite well. He said the most complaints have been political in nature and not health related. Interesting listening to him tell me that. Sucks that a public health concern is so political
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WIAA will be having fall sports on an 8-3 vite today. “Less Risky” sports such as CC and tennis set to begin on time and high contact sports i.e. football, soccer are delayed a couple weeks.
If NFL is playing and high school is playing how can college not?
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WIAA will be having fall sports on an 8-3 vite today. “Less Risky” sports such as CC and tennis set to begin on time and high contact sports i.e. football, soccer are delayed a couple weeks.
If NFL is playing and high school is playing how can college not?
Travel is a big component. Even conference only games take you across state lines, sometimes multiple. College kids are harder to police versus high school kids living at home.
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WIAA will be having fall sports on an 8-3 vite today. “Less Risky” sports such as CC and tennis set to begin on time and high contact sports i.e. football, soccer are delayed a couple weeks.
If NFL is playing and high school is playing how can college not?
California cancelled fall sports. May reschedule for spring. High school seniors talking about skipping their last year of high school and going to the school they already committed to for football.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2020/07/23/michigan-football-recruiting-xavier-worthy/5498486002/
Healthy for all.
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California cancelled fall sports. May reschedule for spring. High school seniors talking about skipping their last year of high school and going to the school they already committed to for football.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2020/07/23/michigan-football-recruiting-xavier-worthy/5498486002/
Healthy for all.
I think we can agree California marches to their own beat. As far as I’m aware pac12 conference hasn’t cancelled anything?
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WIAA will be having fall sports on an 8-3 vite today. “Less Risky” sports such as CC and tennis set to begin on time and high contact sports i.e. football, soccer are delayed a couple weeks.
If NFL is playing and high school is playing how can college not?
Big 8 cancelled their conference season yesterday. Now the kids in Dane Co, Janesville and Beloit will be among the only kids in the state to have no fall sports.
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Big 8 cancelled their conference season yesterday. Now the kids in Dane Co, Janesville and Beloit will be among the only kids in the state to have no fall sports.
Wonder if they will end up reversing that decision.
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Wonder if they will end up reversing that decision.
I would hope that they can keep options open. There are so many unknowns now that it would be a good idea for everyone to be flexible instead of definitive.
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Archdiocese of Milwaukee canceled grade schools sports for the fall. Biggest affected is girls Volleyball and the popular Seton Tourney. Tough pill to swallow if you have a volleyball playing 8th grade daughter.
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Racine to be remote only until at least November 6.
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Troubling news. One of my employees was exposed to a Covid positive customer. We found out from the Department of Public Health. They told us to send that employee home for two weeks. They advised us to not have that person go for a test.
What. The. Hell.
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Your entire workforce needs to be tested.
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Your entire workforce needs to be tested.
I don't disagree.
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Troubling news. One of my employees was exposed to a Covid positive customer. We found out from the Department of Public Health. They told us to send that employee home for two weeks. They advised us to not have that person go for a test.
What. The. Hell.
That’s the second time I’ve heard this advice to an employer. Makes little sense to me
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That’s the second time I’ve heard this advice to an employer. Makes little sense to me
Second hand conversation to me, but PH contact told the person that answered the phone that either there was enough contact and our employee has covid and will display symptoms... or that our employee was exposed and is asymptomatic... or that there wasn't enough contact and our employee is covid negative. The employee encountered the customer on Wednesday. So, since that time, the employee has been in the office (masked of course), for short periods of time. Low chance of office staff being exposed, but still a distinct possibility. Not to mention all of the other customers our employee has come into contact with.
PH contact just said to send the employee home, and have them stay there for two weeks. Said to NOT send them for a test because they could expose others in doing so.
Meanwhile, we are paying their wage while she is out (since we aren't jerks), and down an employee.
We were informed that the test being used won't be able to detect a covid positive case until 5 days after exposure because it is an mRNA test.
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Second hand conversation to me, but PH contact told the person that answered the phone that either there was enough contact and our employee has covid and will display symptoms... or that our employee was exposed and is asymptomatic... or that there wasn't enough contact and our employee is covid negative. The employee encountered the customer on Wednesday. So, since that time, the employee has been in the office (masked of course), for short periods of time. Low chance of office staff being exposed, but still a distinct possibility. Not to mention all of the other customers our employee has come into contact with.
PH contact just said to send the employee home, and have them stay there for two weeks. Said to NOT send them for a test because they could expose others in doing so.
Meanwhile, we are paying their wage while she is out (since we aren't jerks), and down an employee.
We were informed that the test being used won't be able to detect a covid positive case until 5 days after exposure because it is an mRNA test.
That is really dumb
sounds like what i was told in March when i was in to see a dr for another item. I asked the nurse if i did have a symptom what they would do. said send me home for 14 days and only come back in to get tested if i got really sick
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Troubling news. One of my employees was exposed to a Covid positive customer. We found out from the Department of Public Health. They told us to send that employee home for two weeks. They advised us to not have that person go for a test.
What. The. Hell.
Simple answer? In many areas there are not enough tests available. In others, tests are available, but huge backlogs at the labs.
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Simple answer? In many areas there are not enough tests available. In others, tests are available, but huge backlogs at the labs.
It's Madison. There are plenty of tests and backlogs are small. Two day turnaround is typical.
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Second hand conversation to me, but PH contact told the person that answered the phone that either there was enough contact and our employee has covid and will display symptoms... or that our employee was exposed and is asymptomatic... or that there wasn't enough contact and our employee is covid negative. The employee encountered the customer on Wednesday. So, since that time, the employee has been in the office (masked of course), for short periods of time. Low chance of office staff being exposed, but still a distinct possibility. Not to mention all of the other customers our employee has come into contact with.
PH contact just said to send the employee home, and have them stay there for two weeks. Said to NOT send them for a test because they could expose others in doing so.
Meanwhile, we are paying their wage while she is out (since we aren't jerks), and down an employee.
We were informed that the test being used won't be able to detect a covid positive case until 5 days after exposure because it is an mRNA test.
That part makes no sense. This is a free country, send them to Alliant if they want to go.
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That part makes no sense. This is a free country, send them to Alliant if they want to go.
That is what upset me the most. The contact at the drive through tracing is absolutely MINIMAL. Suggesting to not test is asinine.
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That is what upset me the most. The contact at the drive through tracing is absolutely MINIMAL. Suggesting to not test is asinine.
It'll be interesting when we have another year of data to see how many of those testing places became hot spots. Not that we'd know because we're not doing contact tracing.
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It's Madison. There are plenty of tests and backlogs are small. Two day turnaround is typical.
Yeah, cuz they tell people not to get tested! :)
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Ok I understand the waiting for a few days, but I don’t understand telling the person not to get tested at all.
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I'll go ahead and spin the positive. At least they did some contact tracing and let you know before any symptoms are present (if employee did get infected...)
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A few weeks back, a family member came in contact with someone who tested + the following day. Called her Dr and was told to not get a test unless she started feeling ill. Just quarantine for 14 days. Dr said a negative test result would not mean anything because the virus could appear in any of the following days after the test.
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To be fair, if you're not contract tracing, you don't have a great need to test asymptomatic patients.
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It's Madison. There are plenty of tests and backlogs are small. Two day turnaround is typical.
Kenosha is currently 5+ days for results from Froedert or Aurora.
Don’t go to a CVS for testing, that is something of its own spaghetti western like disaster.
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Also, when did Jamie move to Wisconsin? Is he staying with WarriorDad’s kid?
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To be fair, if you're not contract tracing, you don't have a great need to test asymptomatic patients.
I trace all my contracts
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Kenosha is currently 5+ days for results from Froedert or Aurora.
Don’t go to a CVS for testing, that is something of its own spaghetti western like disaster.
Yep. I know someone who has been waiting over 2 weeks for their CVS results.
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https://www.channel3000.com/public-health-department-corrects-negative-test-result-backlog-in-public-dashboard/
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Den der good, aina?
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Yep. I know someone who has been waiting over 2 weeks for their CVS results.
Results are meaningless if they have been waiting 2 weeks.
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Results are meaningless if they have been waiting 2 weeks.
My receptionist will be 14 days tomorrow. Still no taste, no smell. No other symptoms.
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Menomonee Falls Little League President Kristin Lauer announced the suspension of play on the league's Facebook page July 23. She said the suspension will last until at least July 30. Lauer said players and coaches in multiple divisions tested positive for COVID-19.
So, multiple players and coaches in multiple divisions get Covid and they only shut down for a week? Yet, we still wonder why we can't get this under control.
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Welcome to Chicago's quarantine list, cheeseheads.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/wisconsin-being-added-to-chicagos-travel-order-mayor-says/2312092/
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Welcome to Chicago's quarantine list, cheeseheads.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/wisconsin-being-added-to-chicagos-travel-order-mayor-says/2312092/
Darn!! We love goin' down there.They even charge us to get in. I'll miss that. 8-) 8-)
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Welcome to Chicago's quarantine list, cheeseheads.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/wisconsin-being-added-to-chicagos-travel-order-mayor-says/2312092/
I think that directive is likely for Chicago residents more than for WI residents
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I think that directive is likely for Chicago residents more than for WI residents
Exactly. If you live in Chicago and visit Wisconsin, you have to quarantine for 2 weeks after you return.
In related news, Lake Geneva is a ghost town.
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Evers issues a state-wide mask mandate.
Glad to know he actually can do something.
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Evers issues a state-wide mask mandate.
Glad to know he actually can do something.
Hold on, I was told right here on this board that he can't do that, and the SCOWI and the GOP had already said no masks!
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Hold on, I was told right here on this board that he can't do that, and the SCOWI and the GOP had already said no masks!
When the new SC justice is sworn in on Saturday, the odds of a successful GOP lawsuit against this decreases. In this case, timing is probably everything.
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When the new SC justice is sworn in on Saturday, the odds of a successful GOP lawsuit against this decreases. In this case, timing is probably everything.
Eh, maybe. This assumes votes will fall differently, and that judges don't tell Evers to pound sand.
You don't get to re-litigate laws because the judges change.
For me, I think this order is far different from the previous order. Shut down vs masks.
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Eh, maybe. This assumes votes will fall differently, and that judges don't tell Evers to pound sand.
You don't get to re-litigate laws because the judges change.
For me, I think this order is far different from the previous order. Shut down vs masks.
Yup and it’s just masks indoors I believe. Not exactly moving the needle being that you can’t find too many places that aren’t already enforcing this.
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Yup and it’s just masks indoors I believe. Not exactly moving the needle being that you can’t find too many places that aren’t already enforcing this.
Huh? There are tons of places that don’t enforce this. This definitely moves the needle and is long overdue. It should be put in place in all 50 states.
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Yup and it’s just masks indoors I believe. Not exactly moving the needle being that you can’t find too many places that aren’t already enforcing this.
Yo, I don't know where you live, but this is flat out wrong. Much of rural Wisconsin does not have or enforce anything remotely close to this.
I was at a Kwik Trip in Columbia County on Tuesday, and I was the only one wearing a mask outside of the employees.
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Yo, I don't know where you live, but this is flat out wrong. Much of rural Wisconsin does not have or enforce anything remotely close to this.
I was at a Kwik Trip in Columbia County on Tuesday, and I was the only one wearing a mask outside of the employees.
Employees, myself and 1 other customer had masks at the Kwik Trip in New Berlin this morning. Roughly a dozen or so other customers did not
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Employees, myself and 1 other customer had masks at the Kwik Trip in New Berlin this morning. Roughly a dozen or so other customers did not
I play in a softball league in Wauwatosa. Our team is sponsored by a bar in Brookfield. I hadn't gone prior to last week because I didn't want to go into the bar, but some of our team decided to sit outside on their patio this past weekend. The bar was packed inside. 50+ people in a small space. My three friends and I were the only ones wearing masks, and that includes bartenders and waitstaff. We were also mocked for wearing masks, which I don't really care about but shows the attitudes in lots of places.
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I play in a softball league in Wauwatosa. Our team is sponsored by a bar in Brookfield. I hadn't gone prior to last week because I didn't want to go into the bar, but some of our team decided to sit outside on their patio this past weekend. The bar was packed inside. 50+ people in a small space. My three friends and I were the only ones wearing masks, and that includes bartenders and waitstaff. We were also mocked for wearing masks, which I don't really care about but shows the attitudes in lots of places.
I have a weekend trip with old college friends next weekend. We’re all unsure of exactly how or what we’ll do (weekend at a cabin) but we’ve eliminated our usual tank fest Saturday night at the bar. I’ll be curious to see if the bar is as packed as it usually is
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OTOH, I have noticed a significant shift in the midset of "reasonable Republicans" from "see it wasn't that bad" to "holy hell this is getting out of control" in just the last couple of weeks. IOW, I think Republicans significantly coming out against masks wouldn't be a good political position to take right now.
(The "it's just the flu" types and the coronahoaxers are not budging though.)
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OTOH, I have noticed a significant shift in the midset of "reasonable Republicans" from "see it wasn't that bad" to "holy hell this is getting out of control" in just the last couple of weeks. IOW, I think Republicans significantly coming out against masks wouldn't be a good political position to take right now.
(The "it's just the flu" types and the coronahoaxers are not budging though.)
I’d argue there is a growing sentiment that’s not “holy hell” but “might as well, this needs to end and it can’t hurt”. Which in my opinion is the best case scenario for moving the needle.
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I’d argue there is a growing sentiment that’s not “holy hell” but “might as well, this needs to end and it can’t hurt”. Which in my opinion is the best case scenario for moving the needle.
Yeah I think that’s reasonable.
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To be fair guys, Kwik Trips are insanely clean.
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Evers issues statewide mask order. What's the over/under on days until republicans sue?
Evers said he decided to issue the orders as a way to get on top of a virus outbreak growing out of control in recent weeks.
"We tried their way. Folks, it’s not working," Evers said Thursday of Republican lawmakers' successful lawsuit to remove state-imposed restrictions on daily life.
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Looks to be a smart move as we just changed a justice on the Supreme Court from Conservative to Lib. Vote last time was 4-3 and one of the 4 was the guy who is gone now.
Once again showing that Evers was smart to wait till the Court looks to be in his favor. If he had done this a couple weeks ago, it would have been struck down just like the last one.
We had people here that said Evers was weak for not doing it earlier, but it would have been futile. Of course, it would have been the right thing to do, but it was a losing proposition. Would have been just like impeachment, otherwise. Right thing with zero chance.
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correct me if i am wrong but I thought singing was one of the ways you projected more particles of the virus in the air that anything else. All the states I have looked at for mandates allow for the masks to be removed for exercise indoors
When you are giving a religious, political, media, educational, artistic, cultural, musical, or theatrical presentation for an audience, so long as you have at least 6 feet between you and other individuals.
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"Once again showing that Evers was smart to....
"once again"?? how about we get to one first. let's not get out of control here. if you think evers is making any decisions, strike up another one for what to think not how to think. you've heard of the term "figurehead"? yup, you can put uncle joe in the same padded room
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Yo, I don't know where you live, but this is flat out wrong. Much of rural Wisconsin does not have or enforce anything remotely close to this.
I was at a Kwik Trip in Columbia County on Tuesday, and I was the only one wearing a mask outside of the employees.
And you will find that same thing next week at Kwik Trip in Columbia County.
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"Once again showing that Evers was smart to....
"once again"?? how about we get to one first. let's not get out of control here. if you think evers is making any decisions, strike up another one for what to think not how to think. you've heard of the term "figurehead"? yup, you can put uncle joe in the same padded room
Uhh... who’s making the decisions then?
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Uhh... who’s making the decisions then?
Putin, of course.
/s
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And you will find that same thing next week at Kwik Trip in Columbia County.
Ah, so you agree that rural areas of Wisconsin were not wearing masks? Just say that.
And if the law enforcement of the rural counties on WI won't enforce the mandate, then pull their funding. No pay raises, no new equipment, etc. Enough kittenfooting around.
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Ah, so you agree that rural areas of Wisconsin were not wearing masks? Just say that.
And if the law enforcement of the rural counties on WI won't enforce the mandate, then pull their funding. No pay raises, no new equipment, etc. Enough kittenfooting around.
https://www.weau.com/2020/07/30/washburn-county-will-not-enforce-masks/
I had to look up where it is, but yea, Washburn County is about as rural as it gets.
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https://www.weau.com/2020/07/30/washburn-county-will-not-enforce-masks/
I had to look up where it is, but yea, Washburn County is about as rural as it gets.
Seriously. The yokel sheriff is now a Constitutional scholar. 🙄🙄🙄
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Ah, so you agree that rural areas of Wisconsin were not wearing masks? Just say that.
And if the law enforcement of the rural counties on WI won't enforce the mandate, then pull their funding. No pay raises, no new equipment, etc. Enough kittenfooting around.
I agree 100% that rural counties are much less likely to enforce and wear masks, never challenged that.
In my opinion, this state mandate will not change that, that’s all.
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I think it’s hilarious that all of a sudden all these law enforcement agencies are quoting their oaths to uphold the Constitution. Something most of them have never particularly worried about before.
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I think it’s hilarious that all of a sudden all these law enforcement agencies are quoting their oaths to uphold the Constitution. Something most of them have never particularly worried about before.
The constitution is a matter of inconvenience or convenience depending on the day
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The constitution is a matter of inconvenience or convenience depending on the day
For both sides. :)
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For both sides. :)
This is true but few will admit it
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For both sides. :)
Not all the same.
Dems have never said that criminal law is for ordinary Americans. But not for trump.
“The president is not to be treated as an ordinary citizen,” Trump’s lawyer Jay Sekulow said before the Supreme Court. And therefore, he said, a “criminal process targeting the president is a violation of the Constitution.”
Before a lower court, Trump’s lawyers argued that even if he shot someone in broad daylight in downtown Manhattan, he could not be investigated until he’s out of office.
“Nothing could be done? That’s your position?” Federal Judge Chin asked incredulously at the time.
“That is correct,” Trump’s lawyer William Consovoy responded.
I don't remember one side going to court and making the argument that the president is above all law - including murder.
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Not all the same.
Dems have never said that criminal law is for ordinary Americans. But not for trump.
“The president is not to be treated as an ordinary citizen,” Trump’s lawyer Jay Sekulow said before the Supreme Court. And therefore, he said, a “criminal process targeting the president is a violation of the Constitution.”
Before a lower court, Trump’s lawyers argued that even if he shot someone in broad daylight in downtown Manhattan, he could not be investigated until he’s out of office.
“Nothing could be done? That’s your position?” Federal Judge Chin asked incredulously at the time.
“That is correct,” Trump’s lawyer William Consovoy responded.
I don't remember one side going to court and making the argument that the president is above all law - including murder.
Trump is one guy. Not the entire side for the entire history of the party.
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Trump is one guy. Not the entire side for the entire history of the party.
Yes, I realize elected repubs from around the country spoke out against this. ;D ;D
To your point, though, it is correct. But it is no longer the repub party you have supported through the years. I realize that puts people like you - lifetime Rs (I assume) - in a tough spot as to who to support when those upon whom you depended no longer have any plan or belief.
I have no doubt from just what I have read on Scoop that you and Glow are really good people. Makes decisions tough.
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Yes, I realize elected repubs from around the country spoke out against this. ;D ;D
To your point, though, it is correct. But it is no longer the repub party you have supported through the years. I realize that puts people like you - lifetime Rs (I assume) - in a tough spot as to who to support when those upon whom you depended no longer have any plan or belief.
I have no doubt from just what I have read on Scoop that you and Glow are really good people. Makes decisions tough.
Watch the new ad from The Lincoln Project with Stephen Root and the Republican coming out of a coma after 3.5 years.
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Yes, I realize elected repubs from around the country spoke out against this. ;D ;D
To your point, though, it is correct. But it is no longer the repub party you have supported through the years. I realize that puts people like you - lifetime Rs (I assume) - in a tough spot as to who to support when those upon whom you depended no longer have any plan or belief.
I have no doubt from just what I have read on Scoop that you and Glow are really good people. Makes decisions tough.
I am a fiscal conservative and a social morate. Didn't vote for Trump and never will.
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Possible special session to end mask mandate:
https://wkow.com/2020/07/30/republican-state-senator-calls-for-special-session-to-end-mask-order/
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"Governor Evers actions today are nothing more than a political stunt to create a partisan fight with the Legislature," Nass said in a statement. [SO BY GOD I'M GONNA DEMAND WE DO EXACTLY WHAT I SAY HE WANTS.]
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"Governor Evers actions today are nothing more than a political stunt to create a partisan fight with the Legislature," Nass said in a statement. [SO BY GOD I'M GONNA DEMAND WE DO EXACTLY WHAT I SAY HE WANTS.]
Nass doing what Nass does.
BTW the Governor can remove county sheriffs for not doing their job. He won’t. And he shouldn’t. But he can.
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I am a fiscal conservative and a social morate. Didn't vote for Trump and never will.
I didn't think you did. More to my point, it's gotta be hard when you don't feel that one of your choices is someone who represents how you feel.
I am certainly farther left than Biden, but we are still in line on most issues.
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Possible special session to end mask mandate:
https://wkow.com/2020/07/30/republican-state-senator-calls-for-special-session-to-end-mask-order/
My guess is that they don't overturn it. First and foremost, they want to be re-elected. While some of the rural guys would be safe, I think they would lose a lot of seats if they did this. It would even put a guy like Vos in play for defeat.
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Where is my constitutional right to walk around naked? These police.will enforce those laws. I mean its.weird as heck pondering walking around stores naked but not like it's actually dangerous. However a mask mandate to prevent somthing potentially dangerous is going to far? In unconstitutional and not worth enforcing? Werid logic.
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Nass doing what Nass does.
BTW the Governor can remove county sheriffs for not doing their job. He won’t. And he shouldn’t. But he can.
He should. We expect our leaders to set examples for decency and following rules. If they don't wanna do that one simple thing, get rid of them. We have enough police corruption without adding more to it.
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Rural Wisconsin is certainly no Milwaukee or Madison. In my county, the volunteer fire departments raise money by holding gun raffles. A farmer a few miles from my house whose barn faces the state highway has about a dozen flags planted in front of it, evenly divided between Trump 2020 flags, American flags, and "Don't Tread on Me" flags.
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Rural Wisconsin is certainly no Milwaukee or Madison. In my county, the volunteer fire departments raise money by holding gun raffles. A farmer a few miles from my house whose barn faces the state highway has about a dozen flags planted in front of it, evenly divided between Trump 2020 flags, American flags, and "Don't Tread on Me" flags.
I assume he is protesting the gov't mandate that he has to wear a seat belt.
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Hates the farm subsidies, too.
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I assume he is protesting the gov't mandate that he has to wear a seat belt.
Watch the rhetoric Jock - I've cleaned up a few of your posts.
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Hear, hear, hey?
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Hear, hear, hey?
Didn't you post a big diatribe recently?
Glass houses.
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Hear, hear, hey?
Anymore Islamophobic chain emails you wanna post doc, hey?
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Didn't you post a big diatribe recently?
Couldn't be. I've been clearly told I only try to silence the conservative voices. :o
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Rural Wisconsin is certainly no Milwaukee or Madison. In my county, the volunteer fire departments raise money by holding gun raffles. A farmer a few miles from my house whose barn faces the state highway has about a dozen flags planted in front of it, evenly divided between Trump 2020 flags, American flags, and "Don't Tread on Me" flags.
My new neighbor (I moved in recently) was talking to me about a few things. I was having some fun, knew he was a fair bit more to the right then I was, but unlike some people, can deal with these things.
Into about beer number 5 he told me all about how Obama started COVID to take the country back over, and then him, hillary, and Joe would all be indited in the next week. Me being me, I let this conversation continue, and boooooooy did it get weird.
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My new neighbor (I moved in recently) was talking to me about a few things. I was having some fun, knew he was a fair bit more to the right then I was, but unlike some people, can deal with these things.
Into about beer number 5 he told me all about how Obama started COVID to take the country back over, and then him, hillary, and Joe would all be indited in the next week. Me being me, I let this conversation continue, and boooooooy did it get weird.
My favorite new Facebook post:
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My new neighbor (I moved in recently) was talking to me about a few things. I was having some fun, knew he was a fair bit more to the right then I was, but unlike some people, can deal with these things.
Into about beer number 5 he told me all about how Obama started COVID to take the country back over, and then him, hillary, and Joe would all be indited in the next week. Me being me, I let this conversation continue, and boooooooy did it get weird.
It's amazing the things people will say matter-of-factly.
Lefties have been called out for saying trump will try to cancel election or just not leave if he loses, but those are things trump said out loud.
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Into about beer number 5 he told me all about how Obama started COVID to take the country back over, and then him, hillary, and Joe would all be indited in the next week. Me being me, I let this conversation continue, and boooooooy did it get weird.
The leaks about our plot leave much to be desired. I am going to have to speak to someone in security--we can't have every Wisconsin yokel know of our nefarious schemes.
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Sounds like when Willie was convinced that martial law was going to be declared at a Walmart in Texas.
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Sounds like when Willie was convinced that martial law was going to be declared at a Walmart in Texas.
Not an AutoZone in Wisconsin?
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Advocate Aurora, facing shortage of supplies, will close most testing sites, stop testing some patients for COVID-19 before surgery
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/2020/08/06/wisconsin-covid-19-testing-aurora-stop-testing-most-sites/3308154001/
Finally, a promise that trump kept!
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Two weeks into the mask mandate, and crickets from opponents.
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Two weeks into the mask mandate, and crickets from opponents.
A couple reasons. First, I think most people are at least understanding why we are doing this and don't view it as an assault on freedoms.
Second, they aren't really enforcing it in a lot of places. I was at a microbrewery over the weekend, and while the staff was masked, only about a third of the patrons were. (We sat outside away from everyone.)
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A couple reasons. First, I think most people are at least understanding why we are doing this and don't view it as an assault on freedoms.
Second, they aren't really enforcing it in a lot of places. I was at a microbrewery over the weekend, and while the staff was masked, only about a third of the patrons were. (We sat outside away from everyone.)
Honestly, I wish there was a contact line to report non compliant businesses. This is as much of a health crisis as rats in the kitchen.
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Two weeks into the mask mandate, and crickets from opponents.
Honestly .. that really surprises me. The legislature has an election to worry about .. but what about outside "liberty" groups?
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Honestly .. that really surprises me. The legislature has an election to worry about .. but what about outside "liberty" groups?
Right. Congress has admitted they don't have the votes to overturn it, but I am also surprised that the usual suspects aren't out filing court cases.
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Talk to us in a month. Cases are going up...which will be followed by hospitalizations...then deaths.
It’s been over a month of really high daily positive Cases but hospitalizations and deaths have remained relatively low.
Kudos to Wisconsinites for protecting the most vulnerable and for our continued success in keeping the worst of this pandemic muffled for now 🤞
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Honestly, I wish there was a contact line to report non compliant businesses. This is as much of a health crisis as rats in the kitchen.
i'm forming a blue ribbon task force to do my part by reporting non compliance biness right here
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-wear-a-face-mask-during-sex-and-avoid-kissing-to-reduce-covid-19-risk-charity-says-12046999
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i'm forming a blue ribbon task force to do my part by reporting non compliance biness right here
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-wear-a-face-mask-during-sex-and-avoid-kissing-to-reduce-covid-19-risk-charity-says-12046999
I always knew you had to pay for it.
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If anyone manages to get laid M or F without kissing and still "warms up the oven before sticking in the turkey" (American pie 2), while they both have a mask on, then they deserve it because that's one hell of a talent
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15 minutes in and out for the whole family to get tested at the Alliant in Madison.
Jockitch should swing by on its way to reedsburg, since no tests are available in Racine.
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Off topic .. my son has a stuffy nose, zero other symptoms. Google says that's not enough, but my wife thinks he should be tested.
Anyone stayed at a Holiday Inn Express break the tie for us?
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Off topic .. my son has a stuffy nose, zero other symptoms. Google says that's not enough, but my wife thinks he should be tested.
Anyone stayed at a Holiday Inn Express break the tie for us?
temperature, runny stools, numbness/tingling, loss of appetite, loss of smell? how old is he?
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How does the Holiday Inn Express play into the scenario?
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Off topic .. my son has a stuffy nose, zero other symptoms. Google says that's not enough, but my wife thinks he should be tested.
Anyone stayed at a Holiday Inn Express break the tie for us?
I'd say no as well, UNLESS you have reason to believe he was exposed to someone that was COVID positive.
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Off topic .. my son has a stuffy nose, zero other symptoms. Google says that's not enough, but my wife thinks he should be tested.
Anyone stayed at a Holiday Inn Express break the tie for us?
From the Google: Upper respiratory symptoms, like runny nose and sinus congestion, are very uncommon in COVID-19
Fever, cough, loss of smell...(especially the smell/taste thing from folks I've known)... Yes
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From the Google: Upper respiratory symptoms, like runny nose and sinus congestion, are very uncommon in COVID-19
Fever, cough, loss of smell...(especially the smell/taste thing from folks I've known)... Yes
so, if he doesn't pass the smell test...you must do best ;D
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How does the Holiday Inn Express play into the scenario?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHCTaUFXpP8
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15 minutes in and out for the whole family to get tested at the Alliant in Madison.
Jockitch should swing by on its way to reedsburg, since no tests are available in Racine.
Got our results back in 28 hours. 5 negatives to help make the positive rate look better, eh?
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Got our results back in 28 hours. 5 negatives to help make the positive rate look better, eh?
Why did you decide to get tested? School/work re-entry?
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Why did you decide to get tested? School/work re-entry?
Went to a funeral with an indoor luncheon and the kids hung out with some kids from texas at a cabin. Just wanted to be safe. Quarantined for a week, then tested.
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Went to a funeral with an indoor luncheon and the kids hung out with some kids from texas at a cabin. Just wanted to be safe. Quarantined for a week, then tested.
Makes sense and good testing was easy/quick to come back. It’s getting similar here now that local lab times have come back down. My wife did a test before seeing her parents earlier this year and it gave her a lot of comfort/conviction to see them.
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Went to a softball tournament near green bay. One person wore a mask. None of the concessions people did.
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Went to a softball tournament near green bay. One person wore a mask. None of the concessions people did.
Were you that “one person”?
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https://www.channel3000.com/phmdc-issues-emergency-order-requiring-students-in-grades-3-12-to-start-school-year-virtually/
I forgot to post this absolute scumbag move by Dane County.
Requiring virtual schools to start the year... I don't have a problem with.
I DO have a problem with dropping that information at 6pm on a Friday evening.
Now, most schools in the county were already going to be virtual, but I have a visceral reaction to ''bad" news being dropped on a Friday night.
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https://www.channel3000.com/phmdc-issues-emergency-order-requiring-students-in-grades-3-12-to-start-school-year-virtually/
I forgot to post this absolute scumbag move by Dane County.
Requiring virtual schools to start the year... I don't have a problem with.
I DO have a problem with dropping that information at 6pm on a Friday evening.
Now, most schools in the county were already going to be virtual, but I have a visceral reaction to ''bad" news being dropped on a Friday night.
Par for the course for the county. Heads up their asses.
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Got my Covid-19 test at the Alliant Energy Center in Madison at about noon on Thursday. Preregistered online, waited in line about 15 minutes, got swabbed without getting out of my car, and was on my way.
The results were in my email when I woke up this morning.
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Know wunder Pa's bin muzzled, hey?
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https://www.channel3000.com/phmdc-issues-emergency-order-requiring-students-in-grades-3-12-to-start-school-year-virtually/
I forgot to post this absolute scumbag move by Dane County.
Requiring virtual schools to start the year... I don't have a problem with.
I DO have a problem with dropping that information at 6pm on a Friday evening.
Now, most schools in the county were already going to be virtual, but I have a visceral reaction to ''bad" news being dropped on a Friday night.
sponsored by miller, budweiser, jack daniels, grey goose, bacardi, or fill in your favorite adult beverage
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https://www.channel3000.com/phmdc-issues-emergency-order-requiring-students-in-grades-3-12-to-start-school-year-virtually/
I forgot to post this absolute scumbag move by Dane County.
Requiring virtual schools to start the year... I don't have a problem with.
I DO have a problem with dropping that information at 6pm on a Friday evening.
Now, most schools in the county were already going to be virtual, but I have a visceral reaction to ''bad" news being dropped on a Friday night.
I really wouldn't mind Waukesha County doing the same thing but doubt it will happen. I'm giving it two weeks tops for the public schools in Waukesha that start September 1st to stay open.
On the Friday thing, my kids' former Elementary School would always release teacher assignments at about 4P on a Friday - figured that was so no one was around to deal with the complaints until Monday...
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Got my Covid-19 test at the Alliant Energy Center in Madison at about noon on Thursday. Preregistered online, waited in line about 15 minutes, got swabbed without getting out of my car, and was on my way.
The results were in my email when I woke up this morning.
Similar process & timeframe in Milwaukee at UMOS. I think we waited about 30 hours for results.
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It’s been over a month of really high daily positive Cases but hospitalizations and deaths have remained relatively low.
Kudos to Wisconsinites for protecting the most vulnerable and for our continued success in keeping the worst of this pandemic muffled for now 🤞
Checking in again a couple weeks later and we continue to make great strides here in Wisco. Back to back days of zero deaths, looks like the worst of the second wave is behind us nationally.
Great job everyone!!
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Kudos to Gov. Evers for mandating masks despite opposition from republicans.
The single biggest factor in the decline.
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Kudos to Gov. Evers for mandating masks despite opposition from republicans.
The single biggest factor in the decline.
I agree, mask mandate was huge. Was surprised to see sooooo many positive infections continue on for weeks after the mandate went in place though.
Why must everything be political with you? I was simply cheering the state on so we can get back to school, work, and play.
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Took long enough .. here comes the lawsuit.
https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/conservative-group-files-lawsuit-against-tony-evers-second-covid-19-emergency-order-mask-mandate/article_69000ca9-725a-5c42-8b68-36886e46c54c.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest
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Took long enough .. here comes the lawsuit.
https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/conservative-group-files-lawsuit-against-tony-evers-second-covid-19-emergency-order-mask-mandate/article_69000ca9-725a-5c42-8b68-36886e46c54c.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest
This is quite maddening. The state senate and legislatures have failed Wisconsin and won’t be held accountable. All the blame will be put upon the governor who has been stripped of any power by the same people who do nothing. This isn’t a rant just about masks but a failure to tackle unemployment benefits not being taken care of in a timely fashion and a variety of other economic issues. It has been a complete abdication of responsibility
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I think the governor could be more aggressive in his tone. He is playing into his "sleepy" reputation.
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I think the governor could be more aggressive in his tone. He is playing into his "sleepy" reputation.
His biggest liability.
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Took long enough .. here comes the lawsuit.
https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/conservative-group-files-lawsuit-against-tony-evers-second-covid-19-emergency-order-mask-mandate/article_69000ca9-725a-5c42-8b68-36886e46c54c.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest
"Today’s lawsuit is not about mask mandates, it’s about the authority of the governor," WILL president and general counsel Rick Esenberg said on a call with reporters Tuesday. "It’s about how we make laws in this state."
Liars gonna lie.
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This is quite maddening. The state senate and legislatures have failed Wisconsin and won’t be held accountable. All the blame will be put upon the governor who has been stripped of any power by the same people who do nothing. This isn’t a rant just about masks but a failure to tackle unemployment benefits not being taken care of in a timely fashion and a variety of other economic issues. It has been a complete abdication of responsibility
Rs want power.
Rs do not want to govern.
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https://www.wisconsincatholic.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WCC-Press-Release-Regarding-End-to-Dispensations-from-Sunday-Mass-8-31-2020.pdf
The bishops once again show how out of touch with reality they can be.
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https://www.wisconsincatholic.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WCC-Press-Release-Regarding-End-to-Dispensations-from-Sunday-Mass-8-31-2020.pdf
The bishops once again show how out of touch with reality they can be.
That’s interesting and disappointing. With a newborn at home, I’ll continue to listen on the radio or do YouTube.
I’m worried we are getting to a mindset of if kids can go back to school, we can do xyz. I’m worrying we might be accelerating the fall/winter spike.
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As an aside .. a close MU '91 friend became a Jesuit and does a Facebook live mass every Sunday. He puts on a great, one man show from his apartment.
If he keeps doing it, I don't think my wife will ever go back to church in person.
https://www.facebook.com/mcdsj
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https://www.wisconsincatholic.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WCC-Press-Release-Regarding-End-to-Dispensations-from-Sunday-Mass-8-31-2020.pdf
The bishops once again show how out of touch with reality they can be.
The Bishop of Hartford extended dispensation until Advent starts.
I saw my neighbor who is a very longtime Eucharistic Minister in my church and she said she doesn't want to go back yet and risk it since mass is indoors. I was somewhat surprised by her answer.
I've been going for Sunday walks with the wife and she steams the Facebook Live mass from our church.
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As an aside .. a close MU '91 friend became a Jesuit and does a Facebook live mass every Sunday. He puts on a great, one man show from his apartment.
If he keeps doing it, I don't think my wife will ever go back to church in person.
https://www.facebook.com/mcdsj
Father Jim was my Freshman year neighbor in McCormick.
We called him Sagaman because he was our floor Saga dining hall rep on the dorm student government.
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Highest case total record breaking today.
9 frats/sorors under a two week quarantine.
We're doing great. /s
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Highest case total record breaking today.
9 frats/sorors under a two week quarantine.
We're doing great. /s
They had lab test reporting issues Monday through Wednesday so probably need to look at the 7 day average before saying we're doing grrrreat!
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Highest case total record breaking today.
9 frats/sorors under a two week quarantine.
We're doing great. /s
That is meaningless data. Use the numbers for the entire week to compare.
But I think there will be record breaking data in weeks to come. Most schools that have in class learning opened this week. So check out the numbers week after next for comparison.
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That is meaningless data. Use the numbers for the entire week to compare.
But I think there will be record breaking data in weeks to come. Most schools that have in class learning opened this week. So check out the numbers week after next for comparison.
Yeah, its not meaningless, but read the trend.
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Yeah, its not meaningless, but read the trend.
I was referring to this week only because of the mixups.
You are 100% correct about the overall trend.
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If schools are testing everyone during the week or month I agree we will see big spikes but I think if schools are not testing we will not see big spikes cause many of the college students are asymptomatic and will not go out and get tested unless they are showing symptoms
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Is anyone following Milwaukee County's numbers, and can explain what's going on? They're showing really small numbers of positive tests this week. Like under 20/day. That can't be right, can it?
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My county had its first Covid Death since July for a total of 6.
With over 1300 Covid cases, I wonder why their death rate is so low compared to other places. From my observation, there seems to be plenty of comorbidity here.
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My county had its first Covid Death since July for a total of 6.
With over 1300 Covid cases, I wonder why their death rate is so low compared to other places. From my observation, there seems to be plenty of comorbidity here.
Could some be dying in another county? Do they tie back deaths to the county where they have been originally diagnosed?
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456 new cases here in Dane County... A record. Thanks students!
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456 new cases here in Dane County... A record. Thanks students!
My neighbor is a freshman at Madison. The mother said her daughter tested positive end of her first week up there. Now she's been moved to a special dorm where all positive individuals are being housed together. I'd imagine it's going to be getting crowded quick
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My neighbor is a freshman at Madison. The mother said her daughter tested positive end of her first week up there. Now she's been moved to a special dorm where all positive individuals are being housed together. I'd imagine it's going to be getting crowded quick
9 frats/sorors... and two freshman dorms. Just the beginning. They're freezing everything for two weeks. And then I bet they send the kids home.
Football and Hockey are frozen two weeks now too.
Hope it was fun!
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My neighbor is a freshman at Madison. The mother said her daughter tested positive end of her first week up there. Now she's been moved to a special dorm where all positive individuals are being housed together. I'd imagine it's going to be getting crowded quick
Yep. Isolation and quarantine space for those who are positive and close contacts.
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9 frats/sorors... and two freshman dorms. Just the beginning. They're freezing everything for two weeks. And then I bet they send the kids home.
Football and Hockey are frozen two weeks now too.
Hope it was fun!
Better off keeping the kids at school vs increasing the spread by disperseing them all out to the rest of the world.
Besides, madison is already a bubble (surrounded by reality), no better place to be.
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Better off keeping the kids at school vs increasing the spread by disperseing them all out to the rest of the world.
Yup. Our universities, bastions of wisdom, education, and rationality that they are, are about to provide a crash course on all of the exact worst ways to behave during a pandemic. Bring everyone back, don't sufficiently price in or prepare for the risk, blame the 18-22 year olds for 100% predictable behavior and outcomes, and then disseminate the virus back to all corners. Really a master class.
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The issue is going to be the isolation and quarantine space. If you run out of that, you don't have a ton of options.
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Yup. Our universities, bastions of wisdom, education, and rationality that they are, are about to provide a crash course on all of the exact worst ways to behave during a pandemic. Bring everyone back, don't sufficiently price in or prepare for the risk, blame the 18-22 year olds for 100% predictable behavior and outcomes, and then disseminate the virus back to all corners. Really a master class.
People lost their shít over the bogus Sturgis report. Hang tight, Willy, this is gonna get wild now. Every campus will be a super spreader event.
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People lost their shít over the bogus Sturgis report. Hang tight, Willy, this is gonna get wild now. Every campus will be a super spreader event.
In the past 6 months we hit the US death totals of the Vietnam War and WW1 combined. If we are to have an outside chance of surpassing the US dead totals of the Civil War this year everyone is going to have to do their part!
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People lost their shít over the bogus Sturgis report. Hang tight, Willy, this is gonna get wild now. Every campus will be a super spreader event.
Right. I mean, what exactly are colleges and universities supposed to do? You have to mitigate risk and try to operate as best as you can. People act like going virtual is just a flip of a switch.
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Right. I mean, what exactly are colleges and universities supposed to do? You have to mitigate risk and try to operate as best as you can. People act like going virtual is just a flip of a switch.
Was this expected by the Ivory Tower dwellers?
UW had to know this would happen, right?
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Better off keeping the kids at school vs increasing the spread by disperseing them all out to the rest of the world.
Besides, madison is already a bubble (surrounded by reality), no better place to be.
That's exactly why they're keeping kids in place for two weeks.
People lost their shít over the bogus Sturgis report. Hang tight, Willy, this is gonna get wild now. Every campus will be a super spreader event.
It isn't bogus, mate. It was statistically okay... but you know... people read headlines and not the article.
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Was this expected by the Ivory Tower dwellers?
UW had to know this would happen, right?
I think everyone knew that college students would be college students. However, and I say this anecdotally more than anything, but a lot of problems are being driven from a small percentage of students.
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It isn't bogus, mate. It was statistically okay... but you know... people read headlines and not the article.
I agree. But, even though methods were solid, it should be taken with some skepticism until it is peer reviewed.
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I agree. But, even though methods were solid, it should be taken with some skepticism until it is peer reviewed.
Absolutely. But the moment something as bombastic as that comes out the media and social media blow it up. And then when it isn't a perfect it gets shredded and pushed aside as bogus. It isn't as if the people who put it out aren't well respected biostatistitians. But you know. 'Merica.
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Absolutely. But the moment something as bombastic as that comes out the media and social media blow it up. And then when it isn't a perfect it gets shredded and pushed aside as bogus. It isn't as if the people who put it out aren't well respected biostatistitians. But you know. 'Merica.
Then the authors should have had it peer reviewed first, like forgetful always says. But election.
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Then the authors should have had it peer reviewed first, like forgetful always says. But election.
That's what should happen with all of them... but preliminary results get release before peer review all the time. And then the spin starts because politics.
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perfect storm for WI to see large spike in cases
Colleges open and the protests.
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WI SC just issued a temporary injunction against Dane Co's order to close schools for grades 3-12.
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WI SC just issued a temporary injunction against Dane Co's order to close schools for grades 3-12.
So much for leaving it up to the locals.
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So much for leaving it up to the locals.
When there is no legal or scientific basis for the county's order, you have to go to the grownups.
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lol, nobody's called the Wisc SC "grownups" in years maybe even a decade or more.
It's been a while since we haven't been a laughingstock in the legal community.
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When there is no legal or scientific basis for the county's order, you have to go to the grownups.
Or when it hurts your ideology's feelings.
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Or when it hurts your ideology's feelings.
Yaeh, cuz the left never uses the court system. ::) ::)
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When there is no legal or scientific basis for the county's order, you have to go to the grownups.
IOW "I have to make an excuse for this hypocrisy somehow..."
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In the seven days ending Friday, there were 1,711 newly confirmed cases in people ages 10-19, compared to 732 in the seven days before that.
For 20-somethings, there were 1,977 cases this week, up from 1,314 cases last week.
In many other age groups, including 30-somethings, 40-somethings, 60-somethings and 80-somethings, there were actually fewer new cases this week, even as Wisconsin set records overall.
Should we expect the large increases in kids spurred on by school openings to lead to an increase in adults and the population in general as families are exposed to the increasing number of infected kids?
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In the seven days ending Friday, there were 1,711 newly confirmed cases in people ages 10-19, compared to 732 in the seven days before that.
For 20-somethings, there were 1,977 cases this week, up from 1,314 cases last week.
In many other age groups, including 30-somethings, 40-somethings, 60-somethings and 80-somethings, there were actually fewer new cases this week, even as Wisconsin set records overall.
Should we expect the large increases in kids spurred on by school openings to lead to an increase in adults and the population in general as families are exposed to the increasing number of infected kids?
Yeah, probably. R0 still out of hand. We haven't taken this seriously for months, and now we're all headed inside for the fall/winter.
Prep. It's going to be bad.
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Yeah, probably. R0 still out of hand. We haven't taken this seriously for months, and now we're all headed inside for the fall/winter.
Prep. It's going to be bad.
Thanks, Hards.
You confirmed my thoughts on this. Hoping we are both wrong.
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When there is no legal or scientific basis for the county's order, you have to go to the grownups.
When i want to know the legality on any given issue, Ziggys is always my go to guy.
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Yeah, probably. R0 still out of hand. We haven't taken this seriously for months, and now we're all headed inside for the fall/winter.
Prep. It's going to be bad.
WI is definitely moving in the wrong direction at a bad time.
Coming from WI and now living in MN, I have followed the trends in both places. About a month ago, WI had several thousand fewer cases than MN. As of today, WI has about 4k more cases and is pulling away. Not a good direction heading into fall flu season.
When those teens and twenty-somethings start to give it to their parents and grandparents, it could get ugly.
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WI is definitely moving in the wrong direction at a bad time.
Coming from WI and now living in MN, I have followed the trends in both places. About a month ago, WI had several thousand fewer cases than MN. As of today, WI has about 4k more cases and is pulling away. Not a good direction heading into fall flu season.
When those teens and twenty-somethings start to give it to their parents and grandparents, it could get ugly.
or maybe the college students that live on campus will just pass it within their dorms and have some sort of immunity built on the campus.
College professors are not in close contact with students normally and by the time the kids go home by their parents/grandparents they are clear
Have to think positive sometimes thinking negative all the time is not good
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or maybe the college students that live on campus will just pass it within their dorms and have some sort of immunity built on the campus.
College professors are not in close contact with students normally and by the time the kids go home by their parents/grandparents they are clear
Have to think positive sometimes thinking negative all the time is not good
That’s a best case scenario, and it fails to consider the huge increase in teenagers. And it ignores the fact that many college students are commuters.
Positive thinking is great, but when it’s unrealistically positive you are just setting yourself up for disappointment.
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When i want to know the legality on any given issue, Ziggys is always my go to guy.
You're making progress, kin.
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An archbishop in Milwaukee is warning that missing Mass due to COVID-19 fears is a “grave sin.”
As an order excusing parishioners from attending in person is set to expire, Archbishop Jerome Listecki is encouraging parishioners to return to church in a letter posted to the archdiocese website.
“It will be the responsibility of those who are capable and not prohibited by other circumstances to attend Sunday Mass,” Listecki wrote. “Those who deliberately fail to attend Sunday Mass commit a grave sin.”
Listecki’s chief of staff told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel that the archbishop doesn’t want parishioners to stay home and watch the livestream only because it’s more comfortable.
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Completely reckless.
Bishops showing once again how out of touch with the real world they can be. And why I ignore lots of what they say.
Thank goodness Cupich hasn’t done the same.
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An archbishop in Milwaukee is warning that missing Mass due to COVID-19 fears is a “grave sin.”
As an order excusing parishioners from attending in person is set to expire, Archbishop Jerome Listecki is encouraging parishioners to return to church in a letter posted to the archdiocese website.
“It will be the responsibility of those who are capable and not prohibited by other circumstances to attend Sunday Mass,” Listecki wrote. “Those who deliberately fail to attend Sunday Mass commit a grave sin.”
Listecki’s chief of staff told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel that the archbishop doesn’t want parishioners to stay home and watch the livestream only because it’s more comfortable.
In addition to making a poor decision, he uses a poor choice of words by including “grave.”
And no, I am not trying to be funny. That is an absolutely chilling statement by the archbishop, and including “grave“ shows how tone deaf he is to the situation.
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Completely reckless.
Bishops showing once again how out of touch with the real world they can be. And why I ignore lots of what they say.
Thank goodness Cupich hasn’t done the same.
$$$$ May have something to do with this.
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$$$$ May have something to do with this.
I was unaware the the Milwaukee Archdiocese started charging admission for mass
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I was unaware the the Milwaukee Archdiocese started charging admission for mass
Collection baskets don't get filled by virtual attendees.
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Mass attendance has trended downward for years+.
One wonders if COVID will super-charge that trend and the bottom will fall out.
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Likely. One solution to the priest shortage is fewer parishes.
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Collection baskets don't get filled by virtual attendees.
Then set up other ways to give.
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Then set up other ways to give.
There are other ways to give, but church-goers don'tuse them. Saw a story around the time the stay-at-homes began that said something like only 10 percent of church donations are made online, although nearly all churches had online setups.
I'm not justifying the bishop's remarks, just explaining the financial incentive to get people in the pews.
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Then set up other ways to give.
About 60% of our church donates via EFT.
Our priest was encouraging people to bring empty envelopes for collection to make it look like more people were donating.
We haven't been in person since March, but the funds are still rolling out each month.
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These New England bishops think different?
I've noted before that Bishop of Hartford said you can stay home until Advent begins in late November. They'll reassess at that time.
My wife felt bad, wrote a check and mailed in some collection envelopes.
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I wish Listecki hadn't said exactly what he said bc I think it distorts how the Catholic Church in MKE has been a leader in safety. They kept dozens of parishes closed in hot spot areas, they have transitioned to virtual well and they errorred on the side of caution with youth sports this fall (canceled).
BUT I have a feeling a part of what he's saying is parish priests are seeing parishioners skip Mass but then head out to dinner, or to a movie etc, etc. He needs message control and I think he should be saying, if you're comfortable in a 25% full restaurant on Saturday night, we can make you comfortable at Mass on Sunday.
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I wish Listecki hadn't said exactly what he said bc I think it distorts how the Catholic Church in MKE has been a leader in safety. They kept dozens of parishes closed in hot spot areas, they have transitioned to virtual well and they errorred on the side of caution with youth sports this fall (canceled).
BUT I have a feeling a part of what he's saying is parish priests are seeing parishioners skip Mass but then head out to dinner, or to a movie etc, etc. He needs message control and I think he should be saying, if you're comfortable in a 25% full restaurant on Saturday night, we can make you comfortable at Mass on Sunday.
Plus, a "grave sin" will make a lot of the old folks feel like they have to go to church. Technically that's a big deal.
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Local bishop gave dispensation through the end of October. My wife and I set up direct deposit as soon as everything shut down. We have been to in-person mass 4 times.
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Plus, a "grave sin" will make a lot of the old folks feel like they have to go to church. Technically that's a big deal.
That is the part that surprised me when I read it above. That means something to a lot of people - to the extent that they would put their own comfort, safety, etc second.
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My question is what he changed in the last two months to make this decision? I get that the churches have better processes in place, but a lot of that is predicated on limited capacity.
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My question is what he changed in the last two months to make this decision? I get that the churches have better processes in place, but a lot of that is predicated on limited capacity.
Our church, one of the largest in Madison, has an official capacity of around 1200 people.
I've been ushering for years, even at 9 am Easter, the highest I've seen is in the 900 souls range. Even half, at 600, would be an average summer 9am Mass.
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I’ve been doing hospitality at Old St Pat’s in the west Loop since the rebirth in the 1980’s. We have the opposite problem. And I suspect that if we simply opened up with no restrictions it would be a disaster. Though I would not be there to see.
I pretty much stopped listening to bishops a long time ago.
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Interesting view from Appleton:
https://apnews.com/953f86e60c1420b2ebc7635c0823baaa?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AP%20Morning%20Wire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers
APPLETON, Wis. (AP) — Nothing can shake Scott Rice’s faith that President Donald Trump will save the U.S. economy — not seeing businesses close or friends furloughed, not even his own hellish bout with the novel coronavirus.
Rice reveres the president the way Wisconsin loves the Green Bay Packers. He has painted “T-R-U-M-P” on his lawn, spelled it out with Christmas lights on his roof and painted it on his steel-toed shoes.
He was also a virus skeptic, believing it was a hoax meant to hurt Trump and the economy. But then the disease seeped into the paper mill where he works, and he was stricken, suddenly losing his appetite, even for his favorite Taco Bell. He lay in bed, feverish, drenched in sweat. Two air-conditioner units didn’t cool him. His body seemed at war with itself.
After 16 days at home, Rice told his co-workers that the disease was scary and real. But Trump held onto his vote for one reason: The stock market was climbing.
“The 401(k)s, just the economy,” Rice said. “He got jobs going. Just accumulated a lot of jobs, being a businessman.”
Rice’s belief represents the foundation of Trump’s hopes — that Americans believe the economy is strong enough to deliver him a second term.
But in Appleton, a predominately white city of 75,000 people along the Fox River, the health of the economy isn’t judged on jobs numbers, personal bank accounts or union contracts. Instead, it’s viewed through partisan lenses — filtered through the facts voters want to see and hear, and those they don’t.
By almost any measure, Trump’s promises of an economic revival in places like Appleton have gone unfulfilled. The area has lost about 8,000 jobs since he was elected.
Even before the pandemic, Wisconsin’s economy was fragile, as job losses began in August 2019 and a recovery in hiring had just begun when the virus struck. The state that is vital for Trump’s victory had more jobs a decade ago when the country was still ailing from the Great Recession than it did in July.
While supporters like Rice are immovable, others have had enough. President Barack Obama won here in 2012, but voters flipped to Trump four years later, and Trump cannot afford much erosion in a state that he won by only 22,000 votes out of more than 2.8 million.
Democratic candidate Joe Biden holds a slight lead over Trump in the latest Marquette Law School poll of Wisconsin voters. Trump’s disapproval rating has risen to 54% from 49% at the start the year. But 52% of Wisconsin voters applaud Trump on the economy, while 56% dislike his handling of the pandemic that pulled the nation into recession.
Even Rice concedes that the economy is not just an argument for Trump — it’s also an argument against him. His 20-year-old daughter, Cassidy, tells him so. She is studying public health at George Washington University and will cast her first presidential vote for Biden.
“The fact that there was a pandemic and the fact that it had those consequences on the economy should be an eye opener, like, hey, maybe we’re not doing this correctly,” she said.
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And the little children shall lead us....
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Interesting view from Appleton:
https://apnews.com/953f86e60c1420b2ebc7635c0823baaa?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AP%20Morning%20Wire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers
APPLETON, Wis. (AP) — Nothing can shake Scott Rice’s faith that President Donald Trump will save the U.S. economy — not seeing businesses close or friends furloughed, not even his own hellish bout with the novel coronavirus.
Rice reveres the president the way Wisconsin loves the Green Bay Packers. He has painted “T-R-U-M-P” on his lawn, spelled it out with Christmas lights on his roof and painted it on his steel-toed shoes.
He was also a virus skeptic, believing it was a hoax meant to hurt Trump and the economy. But then the disease seeped into the paper mill where he works, and he was stricken, suddenly losing his appetite, even for his favorite Taco Bell. He lay in bed, feverish, drenched in sweat. Two air-conditioner units didn’t cool him. His body seemed at war with itself.
After 16 days at home, Rice told his co-workers that the disease was scary and real. But Trump held onto his vote for one reason: The stock market was climbing.
“The 401(k)s, just the economy,” Rice said. “He got jobs going. Just accumulated a lot of jobs, being a businessman.”
Rice’s belief represents the foundation of Trump’s hopes — that Americans believe the economy is strong enough to deliver him a second term.
But in Appleton, a predominately white city of 75,000 people along the Fox River, the health of the economy isn’t judged on jobs numbers, personal bank accounts or union contracts. Instead, it’s viewed through partisan lenses — filtered through the facts voters want to see and hear, and those they don’t.
By almost any measure, Trump’s promises of an economic revival in places like Appleton have gone unfulfilled. The area has lost about 8,000 jobs since he was elected.
Even before the pandemic, Wisconsin’s economy was fragile, as job losses began in August 2019 and a recovery in hiring had just begun when the virus struck. The state that is vital for Trump’s victory had more jobs a decade ago when the country was still ailing from the Great Recession than it did in July.
While supporters like Rice are immovable, others have had enough. President Barack Obama won here in 2012, but voters flipped to Trump four years later, and Trump cannot afford much erosion in a state that he won by only 22,000 votes out of more than 2.8 million.
Democratic candidate Joe Biden holds a slight lead over Trump in the latest Marquette Law School poll of Wisconsin voters. Trump’s disapproval rating has risen to 54% from 49% at the start the year. But 52% of Wisconsin voters applaud Trump on the economy, while 56% dislike his handling of the pandemic that pulled the nation into recession.
Even Rice concedes that the economy is not just an argument for Trump — it’s also an argument against him. His 20-year-old daughter, Cassidy, tells him so. She is studying public health at George Washington University and will cast her first presidential vote for Biden.
“The fact that there was a pandemic and the fact that it had those consequences on the economy should be an eye opener, like, hey, maybe we’re not doing this correctly,” she said.
What's interesting to read about this is that my company has a sister plant in Appleton. They need more employees and we've heard for the last two years how they have a terrible time getting new employees because "the jobless rate is too low" and "no one wants to do factory work anymore" despite offering $26/hr starting rate to run machines.
Our Appleton plant is doing very well business-wise for a perverse reason. That's another story in itself.
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> “The 401(k)s, just the economy,” Rice said. “He got jobs going. Just accumulated a lot of jobs, being a businessman.”
I'm surprised how many people conflate the market with the economy, including the current president.
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Our economy is in shambles.
The stock market is not the economy. But many middle-aged folks are seeing more money in their retirement accounts (tied to stock performance) than they ever have. I can't say I blame them for wanting that to continue.
I'm no economist. But how long can the stock market continue to climb? How much of it is being propped up artificially? How much is short-term gain that will result in long-term disastrous results (likely affecting those middle-aged folks' kid/grandkids)?
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Our economy is in shambles.
The stock market is not the economy. But many middle-aged folks are seeing more money in their retirement accounts (tied to stock performance) than they ever have. I can't say I blame them for wanting that to continue.
I'm no economist. But how long can the stock market continue to climb? How much of it is being propped up artificially? How much is short-term gain that will result in long-term disastrous results (likely affecting those middle-aged folks' kid/grandkids)?
Shambles? Not yet, but soon.
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Mite bee on Nov. 4, aina?
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Mite bee on Nov. 4, aina?
Depends on who wins, and what the narrative becomes, aina?
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The election will only have a short-term impact on the stock market and the economy. And really I don't know in what way.
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Another not so good day for Wisconsin's numbers.
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Another not so good day for Wisconsin's numbers.
#3 on here is telling- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-ways-to-monitor-coronavirus-outbreak-us.html
LaCrosse, Whitewater, Oshkosh, Stevens Point, Appleton, Platteville, Madison, Green Bay all in the top 20.
I'm completely content placing all the blame on the UW system (and Lawrence).
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#3 on here is telling- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-ways-to-monitor-coronavirus-outbreak-us.html
LaCrosse, Whitewater, Oshkosh, Stevens Point, Appleton, Platteville, Madison, Green Bay all in the top 20.
I'm completely content placing all the blame on the UW system (and Lawrence).
Sign me up.
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College campuses are driving new case numbers right now.
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#3 on here is telling- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-ways-to-monitor-coronavirus-outbreak-us.html
LaCrosse, Whitewater, Oshkosh, Stevens Point, Appleton, Platteville, Madison, Green Bay all in the top 20.
I'm completely content placing all the blame on the UW system (and Lawrence).
Yup, and most outside of Wisconsin are in college towns. Penn State, Indiana, Florida.
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#3 on here is telling- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-ways-to-monitor-coronavirus-outbreak-us.html
LaCrosse, Whitewater, Oshkosh, Stevens Point, Appleton, Platteville, Madison, Green Bay all in the top 20.
I'm completely content placing all the blame on the UW system (and Lawrence).
Uw sucks.
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Smashed yesterday's record by 500 today!
Great job, Wisconsin!
/s
https://bi.wisconsin.gov/t/DHS/views/Dailycaseswmobile/Newcasesbyday?:embed_code_version=3&:embed=y&:loadOrderID=1&:display_count=n&:display_spinner=no&:showAppBanner=false&:origin=viz_share_link&:showVizHome=n
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Smashed yesterday's record by 500 today!
Great job, Wisconsin!
/s
Worst possible time of year to be spiking upward. WI, ND, SD, IA could be in for a world of hurt in a few weeks.
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Smashed yesterday's record by 500 today!
Great job, Wisconsin!
/s
https://bi.wisconsin.gov/t/DHS/views/Dailycaseswmobile/Newcasesbyday?:embed_code_version=3&:embed=y&:loadOrderID=1&:display_count=n&:display_spinner=no&:showAppBanner=false&:origin=viz_share_link&:showVizHome=n
Substantial spike in the 18-24 age group.
Week of 8/16 - 782 cases for that age group.
Week of 9/6 - 3,475 cases for that age group
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Hey you guys passed Illinois in new cases per day with only half the population! Grats!
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We keep getting lots of cases in Illinois but are doing tons of testing, so the positivity rate is staying around 3.6. I suspect a lot of that is due to the U if I testing all students something like twice a week.
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https://www.wisn.com/article/health-officer-parents-sending-sick-symptomatic-kids-to-school-coronavirus/34117451#
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Hey you guys passed Illinois in new cases per day with only half the population! Grats!
Wisconsin is also hitting it out of the park in terms of new cases per 100,000 over the past seven days.
1. ND - 321
2. SD - 248
3. WI - 230
4. OK - 196
5. IA - 189
I think the time has come to build a wall around Minnesota.
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Wisconsin is also hitting it out of the park in terms of new cases per 100,000 over the past seven days.
1. ND - 321
2. SD - 248
3. WI - 230
4. OK - 196
5. IA - 189
I think the time has come to build a wall around Minnesota.
You could always demand that Wisconsin pay for it.
Usually works.
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I want a wall around Illinois as well. We are surrounded by states with much higher positivity rates.
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I want a wall around Illinois as well. We are surrounded by states with much higher positivity rates.
Please build that wall.
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Outstanding NYT piece about the struggles Milwaukeeans -- especially Blacks and Latinos -- will face voting in this year's election, due both to the pandemic and repression.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/us/politics/milwaukee-voters-2020-black-latino.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200924&instance_id=22477&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer®i_id=108420427&segment_id=38915&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
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Outstanding NYT piece about the struggles Milwaukeeans -- especially Blacks and Latinos -- will face voting in this year's election, due both to the pandemic and repression.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/us/politics/milwaukee-voters-2020-black-latino.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200924&instance_id=22477&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer®i_id=108420427&segment_id=38915&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
Cmon...
Stop using the Covid board to backdoor politics.
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Please build that wall.
I am sure the surrounding states would be more than happy to contribute.
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I am sure the surrounding states would be more than happy to contribute.
Yes I'd imagine south eastern wisonsin's economy would do great when suddenly they lose all the revenue from Chicagoland individuals going to their summerhomes, taking weekend trips to twin lakes, lake Geneva, etc.
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Yes I'd imagine south eastern wisonsin's economy would do great when suddenly they lose all the revenue from Chicagoland individuals going to their summerhomes, taking weekend trips to twin lakes, lake Geneva, etc.
Eh, I would be good with letting Illinois annex that. It's basically a far northern suburb, anyway.
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Eh, I would be good with letting Illinois annex that. It's basically a far northern suburb, anyway.
Just like Milwaukee ;)
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Yes I'd imagine south eastern wisonsin's economy would do great when suddenly they lose all the revenue from Chicagoland individuals going to their summerhomes, taking weekend trips to twin lakes, lake Geneva, etc.
True.....I am in Racine county and we have our annual soccer tournament the first weekend in October. Wisconsin teams are not allowed to participate unless they are willing to quarantine and cancel all soccer activities for 14 days afterward. There is 170 Illinois teams registered to play and will drive across borders, hang out for a weekend and drive back. Are they all going to quarantine for 14 days? That's right, I forgot, youth sports activities are not allowed in Illinois yet they train and play across borders whenever they can.
Its hilarious that Illinois acts so uppity when they are like everyone else when it comes to I can do what I want, when I want. Chicago in particular with their Mayor and their travel restrictions list when they flock to Wisconsin on weekends whenever they can. Are Chicagoans really going to quarantine for 14 days after visting?
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That's right, I forgot, youth sports activities are not allowed in Illinois yet they train and play across borders whenever they can.
This is 100% false.
Cheeseheads are cute. You love to bash Illinois, but you need us a lot more than we need you. And what makes you all so mad is you know it.
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True.....I am in Racine county and we have our annual soccer tournament the first weekend in October. Wisconsin teams are not allowed to participate unless they are willing to quarantine and cancel all soccer activities for 14 days afterward. There is 170 Illinois teams registered to play and will drive across borders, hang out for a weekend and drive back. Are they all going to quarantine for 14 days? That's right, I forgot, youth sports activities are not allowed in Illinois yet they train and play across borders whenever they can.
Its hilarious that Illinois acts so uppity when they are like everyone else when it comes to I can do what I want, when I want. Chicago in particular with their Mayor and their travel restrictions list when they flock to Wisconsin on weekends whenever they can. Are Chicagoans really going to quarantine for 14 days after visting?
Yeah it's the fault of every person from Illinois when some people have been hell bent on finding loopholes since this whole thing started!
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True.....I am in Racine county and we have our annual soccer tournament the first weekend in October. Wisconsin teams are not allowed to participate unless they are willing to quarantine and cancel all soccer activities for 14 days afterward. There is 170 Illinois teams registered to play and will drive across borders, hang out for a weekend and drive back. Are they all going to quarantine for 14 days? That's right, I forgot, youth sports activities are not allowed in Illinois yet they train and play across borders whenever they can.
Its hilarious that Illinois acts so uppity when they are like everyone else when it comes to I can do what I want, when I want. Chicago in particular with their Mayor and their travel restrictions list when they flock to Wisconsin on weekends whenever they can. Are Chicagoans really going to quarantine for 14 days after visting?
This is a great description of the challenges introduced by an inept/non-existant Federal response to this pandemic. Wisconsin is making the region worse, and there is little that surrounding states can do to curtail the issue.
Many businesses are taking the state quarantine list seriously and making people stay home after travel. There's not much more the Governor or Mayors can do besides warning people about the challenges Wisconsin is currently facing.
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I am sure the surrounding states would be more than happy to contribute.
Yeah, because Iowa is SO damn interesting... and Illinoisans flee their state weekly because Wisconsin is such a dump. ::)
That leaves Minnesota and da UP der hey... which is basically Wisconsin, and wouldn't financially exist without Wisconsin tourism dollars.
But yes, please tell me about how the surrounding states are better.
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This is 100% false.
Cheeseheads are cute. You love to bash Illinois, but you need us a lot more than we need you. And what makes you all so mad is you know it.
And rural Illinois needs Chicago... which they bash constantly. What's your point? That a big city radiates financial power?
You don't say.
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And rural Illinois needs Chicago... which they bash constantly. What's your point? That a big city radiates financial power?
You don't say.
I don't want to speak for him but I think his point was it's more about the relationship. Rural Illinois needs Chicago because it's farmland that's essentially dependent on NE IL. SE WI is extremely dependent on our tourism and tax dollars from summer homes.
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And rural Illinois needs Chicago... which they bash constantly. What's your point? That a big city radiates financial power?
You don't say.
My point is the incessant Illinois bashing from the cheeseheads here is tiring, misplaced, at times factually inaccurate and typically borne out of either jealousy or the unhappy realization of how much you depend on us.
Case in point ... companies like Foxconn are understandably happy to rip off your government for all the money they can get, but we all know they wouldn't even give Wisconsin the time of day if their trucks couldn't hop on the interstate and be in the Chicago market in 20 minutes.
So, to borrow a line from Col. Nathan Jessup, we'd rather you just said 'thank you' and went on your way.
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I grew up in Oshkosh. I keep seeing old high school friends on social media drinking at bars, swimming in sand bars, no masks , etc. as if nothing is happening.
It infuriates me. Both of my parents are in Wisconsin and in high risk categories. Both are taking precautions as much as they can, but have to go into work. If one of them gets sick due to the idiocy of people in their 20s and 30s....
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https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/indiana-governor-keeps-mask-order-drops-other-coronavirus-limits/
The other state boards aren’t active anymore so I am posting this here, as a midwestern thing. Indiana dropping all restrictions but masking. Which means even more people crossing the border, and more pressure on JB, ‘because we should be open if Indiana and Wisconsin are’. I have zero faith in people.
Even aside from how a national plan is needed, if we could have actually had a regional plan we would be better off.
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https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/track-and-compare-coronavirus-positivity-rates-in-10-midwestern-states-here-2/2344024/
More food for thought
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https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/track-and-compare-coronavirus-positivity-rates-in-10-midwestern-states-here-2/2344024/
More food for thought
Okay, I am going to ask a dumb question. How is comparing these percentages meaningful if the mix of people taking the test isn't exactly the same in each test group?
In some places, it is easy to get a test no if you are symptomatic, asymptomatic but exposed to Covid, or just for the hell of it. In other places, they are focusing on symptomatic people. How can you compare the percentage positive between the two groups when the denominators in your calculation may be completely different?
Just this morning, the news in Wisconsin reported a dip in the percentage positive, but the reporter added that it was likely due to an uptick in testing. If the percentage positive is being used to measure the spread, especially compared to other states, why would the increased testing matter?
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Okay, I am going to ask a dumb question. How is comparing these percentages meaningful if the mix of people taking the test isn't exactly the same in each test group?
In some places, it is easy to get a test no if you are symptomatic, asymptomatic but exposed to Covid, or just for the hell of it. In other places, they are focusing on symptomatic people. How can you compare the percentage positive between the two groups when the denominators in your calculation may be completely different?
Just this morning, the news in Wisconsin reported a dip in the percentage positive, but the reporter added that it was likely due to an uptick in testing. If the percentage positive is being used to measure the spread, especially compared to other states, why would the increased testing matter?
Agreed. Positive per 100k seems like a fair assessment not percent positive unless you're trying to put the numbers in context of more tests = more discovering positive cases each day.
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My point is the incessant Illinois bashing from the cheeseheads here is tiring, misplaced, at times factually inaccurate and typically borne out of either jealousy or the unhappy realization of how much you depend on us.
Case in point ... companies like Foxconn are understandably happy to rip off your government for all the money they can get, but we all know they wouldn't even give Wisconsin the time of day if their trucks couldn't hop on the interstate and be in the Chicago market in 20 minutes.
So, to borrow a line from Col. Nathan Jessup, we'd rather you just said 'thank you' and went on your way.
Any private business would have given any sucker government the time of day for that sweetheart deal. Proximity to Chicago has exactly zero to do with that. But that is the Chicago arrogance that rubs the cheeseheads the wrong way. Wisconsin gave away more money than anyone else (smartly) was willing to... and that's why Foxconn chose Wisconsin.
Furthermore, I wouldn't cast stones about dysfunctional government while standing in IL.
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https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/indiana-governor-keeps-mask-order-drops-other-coronavirus-limits/
The other state boards aren’t active anymore so I am posting this here, as a midwestern thing. Indiana dropping all restrictions but masking. Which means even more people crossing the border, and more pressure on JB, ‘because we should be open if Indiana and Wisconsin are’. I have zero faith in people.
Even aside from how a national plan is needed, if we could have actually had a regional plan we would be better off.
Indiana resident here -
The conspiracy theorist in me says the governor is moving forward with reopening despite stats showing Indiana is doing as poorly as ever controlling covid due to recent voter polls demonstrating the governor losing ground to his libertarian challenger over the issue of continued lockdown.
That, or the state feels the people are adhering to mask wearing and that's enough to prevent spread.
Note that local governments can still put forth more restrictive guidelines if they want. Indy will likely keep more restricted
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Okay, I am going to ask a dumb question. How is comparing these percentages meaningful if the mix of people taking the test isn't exactly the same in each test group?
You are entirely correct. It makes very little sense. A bit. A skosh. It's something, but without magnitudes of people being tested it means very little and it's fascinating how much ink it gets.
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Okay, I am going to ask a dumb question. How is comparing these percentages meaningful if the mix of people taking the test isn't exactly the same in each test group?
In some places, it is easy to get a test no if you are symptomatic, asymptomatic but exposed to Covid, or just for the hell of it. In other places, they are focusing on symptomatic people. How can you compare the percentage positive between the two groups when the denominators in your calculation may be completely different?
Just this morning, the news in Wisconsin reported a dip in the percentage positive, but the reporter added that it was likely due to an uptick in testing. If the percentage positive is being used to measure the spread, especially compared to other states, why would the increased testing matter?
It’s been explained to me that percent positive is a good indicator of you have sufficient testing capacity in place to detect the extent of your spread. If you have high positivity you are likely missing a lot of cases.
So increased or stable testing and increased positivity = heading in bad direction. Increased testing stable positivity, keep testing more. And so on.
In isolation it’s probably hard to draw A lot of major conclusions other than WI probably has a lot more spread than is being reported.
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Any private business would have given any sucker government the time of day for that sweetheart deal. Proximity to Chicago has exactly zero to do with that. But that is the Chicago arrogance that rubs the cheeseheads the wrong way. Wisconsin gave away more money than anyone else (smartly) was willing to... and that's why Foxconn chose Wisconsin.
Furthermore, I wouldn't cast stones about dysfunctional government while standing in IL.
Sure, sure. Foxconn would just have easily chosen Marshfield or Manitowish as Mount Pleasant. The latter's location less than an hour from the economic hub of the Midwest and transportation hub of the continent is mere coincidence.
And there's nothing smart about the Foxconn deal. It's a boondoggle. Ya been lied to. Bamboozled. Hoodwinked.
As for Illinois government, we know better than anyone that it's dysfunctional. We live it every single day. We don't need cheeseheads to hop aboard their high Holsteins to remind us. And yet, somehow, they always feel the need to here on Scoop.
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This is 100% false.
Cheeseheads are cute. You love to bash Illinois, but you need us a lot more than we need you. And what makes you all so mad is you know it.
Sorry but its true. I am in the youth sports business. The numbers don't lie with the number of Illinois teams that have crossed the border to play in soccer, baseball and lacrosse events. The phone calls don't lie when I have a multitude of volleyball/soccer clubs in Northern Illinois begging us to open up a facility in Libertyville/Gurnee so they can have a place to train and then travel to other states to play in tournaments. Libertyville is scared to re-open their indoor facility due to covid-19 liability issues but they have no problems scheduling meetings and trying to see if organizations will sign leased contracts for this winter as long as they are not held liable. You might not like the truth but that is the truth.
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Sorry but its true. I am in the youth sports business.
In the last two weeks, I have attended my kid's flag football, baseball and basketball games. In Illinois.
Maybe it was a dream.
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Okay, I am going to ask a dumb question. How is comparing these percentages meaningful if the mix of people taking the test isn't exactly the same in each test group?
In some places, it is easy to get a test no if you are symptomatic, asymptomatic but exposed to Covid, or just for the hell of it. In other places, they are focusing on symptomatic people. How can you compare the percentage positive between the two groups when the denominators in your calculation may be completely different?
Just this morning, the news in Wisconsin reported a dip in the percentage positive, but the reporter added that it was likely due to an uptick in testing. If the percentage positive is being used to measure the spread, especially compared to other states, why would the increased testing matter?
Thats not a dumb question but here is a dumb question. Who is supposed to go get tested and when? If you want the positivity number to be lower, you first want lower cases, otherwise you want more tests and a bigger denominator. I have not been tested so it wouldn't cross my mind to get tested unless I had close contact with someone who tested positive or I felt ill. Are we supposed to go get tested regularly even without symptoms? Should everyone be getting tested weekly? If I get tested weekly, does each test get counted or just 1 test gets counted.
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This is a great description of the challenges introduced by an inept/non-existant Federal response to this pandemic. Wisconsin is making the region worse, and there is little that surrounding states can do to curtail the issue.
Many businesses are taking the state quarantine list seriously and making people stay home after travel. There's not much more the Governor or Mayors can do besides warning people about the challenges Wisconsin is currently facing.
Skat - My corporation takes seriously. My corporate travel is basically shut down because they are insisting employees follow state protocols on COVID-19.
The day after Labor Day, our corporate Lean Manufacturing Director from the Columbus, OH facility flew out to visit the two Connecticut factories. When he left on the early flight, Ohio was off the list. When he showed up at our building the weekly update came out and Ohio was back on. He flew home the next day at the insistence of corporate HR.
We finished installing a new piece of equipment the end of July. It's still sitting unused. We need the equipment techs to do their 2-3 day startup and one tech comes from Indiana and the other Ohio. Indiana is perpetually on the quarantine list and Ohio drifts on and off. We have no idea when they'll be able to come.
We're installing one more very major piece of equipment. Building restructuring is going on to accommodate the new equipment and will be completed sometime this year. It has a similar fate as the other new equipment except even more tricky. We needs technicians to come for 2-3 weeks from Sweden where the equipment came from.
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In the last two weeks, I have attended my kid's flag football, baseball and basketball games. In Illinois.
Maybe it was a dream.
The IYSA only allows intra club scrimmages and trainings. They are not allowing any events, actual games or tournaments. Illinois team participation at our clubs event went from an average of 40 teams a year to now pushing over 170 teams this year and if it wasn't for the shooting that took place in Kenosha and subsequent rioting, The Chicago Cup would have taken place in Franksville, WI. I guess I must be dreaming as well.
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The IYSA only allows intra club scrimmages and trainings. They are not allowing any events, actual games or tournaments. Illinois team participation at our clubs event went from an average of 40 teams a year to now pushing over 170 teams this year and if it wasn't for the shooting that took place in Kenosha and subsequent rioting, The Chicago Cup would have taken place in Franksville, WI. I guess I must be dreaming as well.
So a youth soccer association isn't allowing tournaments and you extrapolated that to "Youth sports are banned!"
You're not dreaming. Just wrong.
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My point is the incessant Illinois bashing from the cheeseheads here is tiring, misplaced, at times factually inaccurate and typically borne out of either jealousy or the unhappy realization of how much you depend on us.
Case in point ... companies like Foxconn are understandably happy to rip off your government for all the money they can get, but we all know they wouldn't even give Wisconsin the time of day if their trucks couldn't hop on the interstate and be in the Chicago market in 20 minutes.
So, to borrow a line from Col. Nathan Jessup, we'd rather you just said 'thank you' and went on your way.
Do you have "Roman" on your Illinois license playe?
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Sure, sure. Foxconn would just have easily chosen Marshfield or Manitowish as Mount Pleasant. The latter's location less than an hour from the economic hub of the Midwest and transportation hub of the continent is mere coincidence.
And there's nothing smart about the Foxconn deal. It's a boondoggle. Ya been lied to. Bamboozled. Hoodwinked.
As for Illinois government, we know better than anyone that it's dysfunctional. We live it every single day. We don't need cheeseheads to hop aboard their high Holsteins to remind us. And yet, somehow, they always feel the need to here on Scoop.
I think I was unclear. I knew it was a terrible idea from the jump. I added the parentheses poorly. I meant it was smart of everyone else to reject Foxxcon. They had been known to yank the rug out from everyone... and surprise surprise, it happened again!
Scotty boy and Foxconn picked SEW because it is a battleground area and he thought he was buying jobs (votes) with the deal. Guess he was wrong... yet again.
Wisconsinites feel the need to rebuke the trash thrown at them by a neighbor that constantly looks down it nose at them. Undeservingly. If you guys weren't such twats about everything, there'd be no reason for Wisconsinites to feel slighted. But here we are, in a thread about Wisconsin, and you're the one that has brought Chicago up. As if Wisconsinites should kiss the ring. I thought we'd left the self aggrandizing behavior to Cheeks?
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Thats not a dumb question but here is a dumb question. Who is supposed to go get tested and when? If you want the positivity number to be lower, you first want lower cases, otherwise you want more tests and a bigger denominator. I have not been tested so it wouldn't cross my mind to get tested unless I had close contact with someone who tested positive or I felt ill. Are we supposed to go get tested regularly even without symptoms? Should everyone be getting tested weekly? If I get tested weekly, does each test get counted or just 1 test gets counted.
Everyone should be tested as frequently as possible if we want to get this under control. What we are doing now is pure stupidity... but that has been the case since March. Problem is that we haven't scaled our testing because we aren't approaching this like it is a pandemic.
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Everyone should be tested as frequently as possible if we want to get this under control. What we are doing now is pure stupidity... but that has been the case since March. Problem is that we haven't scaled our testing because we aren't approaching this like it is a pandemic.
We are out-Swedening Sweden until we have a vaccine. That is our approach in a nutshell.
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Wisconsinites feel the need to rebuke the trash thrown at them by a neighbor that constantly looks down it nose at them. Undeservingly. If you guys weren't such twats about everything, there'd be no reason for Wisconsinites to feel slighted. But here we are, in a thread about Wisconsin, and you're the one that has brought Chicago up. As if Wisconsinites should kiss the ring. I thought we'd left the self aggrandizing behavior to Cheeks?
That's an unwarranted cheap shot. This is typical of the Illinois-Wisconsin dymanic. We give you a cute nickname like "Cheeseheads" and you call us "F--king Bastards." And then say we're the twats? Wisconsin has a collective anger problem to go with its weight problem, it seems.
And, with all due respect, you're the one who led the charge to bash Illinois in this thread, i.e. "Build that wall." I'm merely responding to the nonsense.
Regardless, we love Wisconsin. You're our feisty little neighbor to the north with the better fishing and good spots to launch our boats (and fireworks!). Truth be told, most of us north of I-80 like you guys way more than our downstate residents.
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Do you have "Roman" on your Illinois license playe?
Speaking of Wisconsinites with anger problems ...
(Nice bad movie reference, though)
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A former co-worker has been tested four times, she goes for a test before she drives to Michigan to visit her mother. U of I is testing students twice a week, using the saliva test they developed.
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Oh, and I think enrolling your kid in sports in other state during a pandemic is nuts.
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That's an unwarranted cheap shot. This is typical of the Illinois-Wisconsin dymanic. We give you a cute nickname like "Cheeseheads" and you call us "F--king Bastards." And then say we're the twats? Wisconsin has a collective anger problem to go with its weight problem, it seems.
And, with all due respect, you're the one who led the charge to bash Illinois in this thread, i.e. "Build that wall." I'm merely responding to the nonsense.
Regardless, we love Wisconsin. You're our feisty little neighbor to the north with the better fishing and good spots to launch our boats (and fireworks!). Truth be told, most of us north of I-80 like you guys way more than our downstate residents.
Thank you for proving my point. I guess you guys don't understand the humor in being called FIBs... and obviously "build that wall" was a joke... but you must have missed that as well. Plus humor/sarcasm has problems translating over the internet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States
Wisconsin 32.0% (21st)
Illinois 31.1% (27th)
So yes, we're fatter, but not by much ;D Plus, we're your skinniest neighbor. :P
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Everyone should be tested as frequently as possible if we want to get this under control. What we are doing now is pure stupidity... but that has been the case since March. Problem is that we haven't scaled our testing because we aren't approaching this like it is a pandemic.
so, how often? every morning before or after we brush and floss? twice a day? what? we take everyone's temperature. i take mine multiple times per day, but testing? let's be reasonable here
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Speaking of Wisconsin and Covid....
Another, um, banner day, with 2,392 new cases reported. Tryin' to give ND and SD a run for their money.
https://twitter.com/DHSWI/status/1309206070137630720?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
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Thank you for proving my point. I guess you guys don't understand the humor in being called FIBs... and obviously "build that wall" was a joke... but you must have missed that as well. Plus humor/sarcasm has problems translating over the internet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States
Wisconsin 32.0% (21st)
Illinois 31.1% (27th)
So yes, we're fatter, but not by much ;D Plus, we're your skinniest neighbor. :P
Dish better than you take, it seems.
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so, how often? every morning before or after we brush and floss? twice a day? what? we take everyone's temperature. i take mine multiple times per day, but testing? let's be reasonable here
I'm sorry, I was told you wanted a functioning society. I'm being reasonable, our country isn't interested.
Ideally, you get a rapid test in the morning every day. Short of a vaccine, treatment, or disappearance (ha!) daily rapid testing can all but eliminate spread.
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Dish better than you take, it seems.
I mean, it is the better state and Chicago was originally supposed to be part of Wisconsin.
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I mean, it is the better state and Chicago was originally supposed to be part of Wisconsin.
Wisconsin should be so lucky.
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I mean, it is the better state and Chicago was originally supposed to be part of Wisconsin.
Had to fact check, didn't know it's true. Wonder what Milwaukee or Kenosha or Racine would all be like today has that happened.
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From the Wikipedia:
"During the discussions leading up to Illinois's admission to the Union, the proposed northern boundary of the state was moved twice.[30] The original provisions of the Northwest Ordinance had specified a boundary that would have been tangent to the southern tip of Lake Michigan. Such a boundary would have left Illinois with no shoreline on Lake Michigan at all. However, as Indiana had successfully been granted a 10-mile (16 km) northern extension of its boundary to provide it with a usable lakefront, the original bill for Illinois statehood, submitted to Congress on January 23, 1818, stipulated a northern border at the same latitude as Indiana's, which is defined as 10 miles north of the southernmost extremity of Lake Michigan. However, the Illinois delegate, Nathaniel Pope, wanted more, and lobbied to have the boundary moved further north. The final bill passed by Congress included an amendment to shift the border to 42° 30' north, which is approximately 51 miles (82 km) north of the Indiana northern border. This shift added 8,500 square miles (22,000 km2) to the state, including the lead mining region near Galena. More importantly, it added nearly 50 miles of Lake Michigan shoreline and the Chicago River. Pope and others envisioned a canal that would connect the Chicago and Illinois rivers and thus connect the Great Lakes to the Mississippi."
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Also, Wisconsin should have had St. Paul as well. The original Northwest Ordinance said that the Northwest Territory could only be divided into a minimum of five states (Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin). And, after the other four were admitted, the Wisconsin Territory had the Mississippi River as its western border to its source, then it went due north to what is now Canada.
But timber interests wanted to be part of a territory and not a state, so the border was altered to where it is now.
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These border stories are covered in the book How States got their Shapes.
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Wisconsin could have had Michigan's Upper Peninsula (and still can as far as I am concerned) except for Toledo. Ohio got Toledo, Michigan got the UP. In hindsight, Michigan should have said thanks for taking Toledo.
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Wisconsin could have had Michigan's Upper Peninsula (and still can as far as I am concerned) except for Toledo. Ohio got Toledo, Michigan got the UP. In hindsight, Michigan should have said thanks for taking Toledo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_(proposed_U.S._state)
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so, how often? every morning before or after we brush and floss? twice a day? what? we take everyone's temperature. i take mine multiple times per day, but testing? let's be reasonable here
There is actually a possibility to have a test that only detects when you have enough virus to be contagious and requires no lab work. Done like a pregnancy test or a strip test immersed in a vial. It’s been sketched out at $1 a day per test.
The perception is that it won’t detect everyone with the virus and therefore not accurate and not advancing in the FDA, etc. When in practice this could do what everyone has been advocating for —removing only the contagious from society/economy.
From what I have read this Seems like a strategic and practical shift that does have merit and certainly isn’t ‘unreasonable’.
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Thank you for proving my point. I guess you guys don't understand the humor in being called FIBs... and obviously "build that wall" was a joke... but you must have missed that as well. Plus humor/sarcasm has problems translating over the internet.
I grew up in WI until I left for college and now am back in the state after a decade in Chicago and I have never understood the “humor”. It’s always been cringey to me and was most often said by people who embodied most negative Wisconsin stereotypes and were aggressively proud of rarely, if ever, leaving the state and many had not spent more than an afternoon in Chicago.
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I grew up in WI until I left for college and now am back in the state after a decade in Chicago and I have never understood the “humor”. It’s always been cringey to me and was most often said by people who embodied most negative Wisconsin stereotypes and were aggressively proud of rarely, if ever, leaving the state and many had not spent more than an afternoon in Chicago.
I mean, there was a food cart in Madison named FIBS (Fantastic Italian Beef and Sausage) until it burned. So there are plenty of people who see the humor in it. And well, maybe you just know some crummy people who call people FIBS. I've only ever said it around my friends in jest. I don't doubt that some people mean it when they say it... but you're right, they're usually pretty trashy people.
There are some people who take offense at getting called fat, jealous, unhappy, and dependent upon Chicago... Like Pakuni did for a page or so before clutching his pearls about being called a FIB (not by me, nor anyone else here) by some specter from the past he has drug into this conversation. I called him a twat, because he was acting twatty and arrogant.
For the record, anyone who is proud of not traveling is not playing with a full deck. That's my opinion as well as yours. But I guess, different strokes, as they say.
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I mean, there was a food cart in Madison named FIBS (Fantastic Italian Beef and Sausage) until it burned. So there are plenty of people who see the humor in it. And well, maybe you just know some crummy people who call people FIBS. I've only ever said it around my friends in jest. I don't doubt that some people mean it when they say it... but you're right, they're usually pretty trashy people.
There are some people who take offense at getting called fat, jealous, unhappy, and dependent upon Chicago... Like Pakuni did for a page or so before clutching his pearls about being called a FIB (not by me, nor anyone else here) by some specter from the past he has drug into this conversation. I called him a twat, because he was acting twatty and arrogant.
For the record, anyone who is proud of not traveling is not playing with a full deck. That's my opinion as well as yours. But I guess, different strokes, as they say.
Apparently calling people FIBS* and saying they should be surrounded by a wall is Carlin-level humor, but poking fun of Wisconsinites for their little brother syndrome is "twatty."
You seem needlessly triggered about some mild and good-natured jokes at your state's expense. Lighten up. You live in God's country, after all.
* over which absolutely no one clutches pearls ... we just laugh at the lack of originality.
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Speaking of Wisconsinites with anger problems ...
(Nice bad movie reference, though)
Grew up in IL, cuz. If anything, WI has mellowed me out.
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Well this is strange. I can only assume from the recent conversation that Covid is "solved' in WI.
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Well this is strange. I can only assume from the recent conversation that Covid is "solved' in WI.
Brutal .. https://twitter.com/SarahHauer/status/1309231028884647938
Wisconsin has "unprecedented, near-exponential growth" in new coronavirus case counts, largely driven by young people. More Wisconsinites are in the hospital now with COVID-19 than in April.
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Brutal .. https://twitter.com/SarahHauer/status/1309231028884647938
Wisconsin has "unprecedented, near-exponential growth" in new coronavirus case counts, largely driven by young people. More Wisconsinites are in the hospital now with COVID-19 than in April.
The replies, man.
And apologies for leading the thread astray. I'll say no more about that.
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Brutal .. https://twitter.com/SarahHauer/status/1309231028884647938
Wisconsin has "unprecedented, near-exponential growth" in new coronavirus case counts, largely driven by young people. More Wisconsinites are in the hospital now with COVID-19 than in April.
It really is staggering how quickly the numbers have gone up in the past few weeks. And the positivity rate has been hovering in the 18% range, so the rapid increase is likely to continue for a while.
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For the record, anyone who is proud of not traveling is not playing with a full deck. That's my opinion as well as yours. But I guess, different strokes, as they say.
That I can agree with, and it baffling defies geography and socioeconomics. It’s obviously commonly found in “trashy” MURICA folks, but I remember turning off Chicago sports talk radio one time in annoyance cause the hosts said why waste your time with time zone changes or “weird food” when you could just go to Cancun.
On the other hand, I had a roommate who dated a girl whose parents were both wealthy Chicago lawyers and they had a handful of vacation homes...yet she didn’t, nor had she ever, possessed a passport. She found absolutely nothing odd or bizarre with that. Same roommate moved to LA and got his MBA at USC. He had a classmate who went to UCSB, grew up in Calabasas, drove a Porsche and talked all the time about his parents matching Bentleys....but his first time ON A F-ING PLANE, was a summer group trip to Asia. Dude had never been farther than NorCal/Vegas/Zona despite growing up in extreme wealth. Just wild.
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Apparently calling people FIBS* and saying they should be surrounded by a wall is Carlin-level humor, but poking fun of Wisconsinites for their little brother syndrome is "twatty."
You seem needlessly triggered about some mild and good-natured jokes at your state's expense. Lighten up. You live in God's country, after all.
* over which absolutely no one clutches pearls ... we just laugh at the lack of originality.
I never claimed I was funny. As for triggered, I'm not the one who dropped a bunch of insults and then couldn't handle absolutely MASSIVE hit back of being called twatty. Once. You were being provocative, so I responded with a mild insult. Which apparently, makes me little brother ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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A year ago or so a MU classmate posted a picture on FB of his family at a park 2 hours west of Chicago. I said to my wife, it was the first time I could ever remember a Chicago friend exploring the state of Illinois. It seems every Chicagoan goes to Wisconsin, Indiana (dunes) or Michigan for quick getaways. You never hear anyone say, we found a great little spot downstate.
Chicago definitely feels like it's not perfectly at home in Illinois.
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A year ago or so a MU classmate posted a picture on FB of his family at a park 2 hours west of Chicago. I said to my wife, it was the first time I could ever remember a Chicago friend exploring the state of Illinois. It seems every Chicagoan goes to Wisconsin, Indiana (dunes) or Michigan for quick getaways. You never hear anyone say, we found a great little spot downstate.
Chicago definitely feels like it's not perfectly at home in Illinois.
Honestly, there isn't a whole lot to see in Downstate Illinois. That's why the "visit Illinois" commercials are 90% about Chicago. It's not really the states fault that they don't have much in the way of scenic beauty.
There is the Springfield area. I highly recommend the Lincoln Presidential Library and New Salem, which is a mini Colonial Williamsburg-type place where Lincoln lived as a young adult. Both are worth a visit.
Then you have the state parks. Starved Rock is interesting. But the downstate parks aren't anything remarkable, and as a general rule, the campgrounds in the Illinois state parks suck- every one of them that I have seen consists of an open grassy field with the sites on top of each other.
Galena is pretty cool.
That's basically it.
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A year ago or so a MU classmate posted a picture on FB of his family at a park 2 hours west of Chicago. I said to my wife, it was the first time I could ever remember a Chicago friend exploring the state of Illinois. It seems every Chicagoan goes to Wisconsin, Indiana (dunes) or Michigan for quick getaways. You never hear anyone say, we found a great little spot downstate.
Chicago definitely feels like it's not perfectly at home in Illinois.
A bunch of Chicago people go to Starved Rock... and Shawnee forest is beautiful but let's be honest the rest of the state isn't that pretty. Driving down to St Louis is driving through a hell scape that may as well be Nebraska or Kansas.
Edit: heard the palisades are nice as is some park by Dubuque but never been.
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That I can agree with, and it baffling defies geography and socioeconomics. It’s obviously commonly found in “trashy” MURICA folks, but I remember turning off Chicago sports talk radio one time in annoyance cause the hosts said why waste your time with time zone changes or “weird food” when you could just go to Cancun.
On the other hand, I had a roommate who dated a girl whose parents were both wealthy Chicago lawyers and they had a handful of vacation homes...yet she didn’t, nor had she ever, possessed a passport. She found absolutely nothing odd or bizarre with that. Same roommate moved to LA and got his MBA at USC. He had a classmate who went to UCSB, grew up in Calabasas, drove a Porsche and talked all the time about his parents matching Bentleys....but his first time ON A F-ING PLANE, was a summer group trip to Asia. Dude had never been farther than NorCal/Vegas/Zona despite growing up in extreme wealth. Just wild.
My son had a high school friend who went to college in California. She said it was amazing how little most Californians travel. She wanted to get a group of her friends to come to Wisconsin for a short visit over the summer, go to Summerfest, find a place on a lake somewhere. You would have thought she asked them to climb Mount Everest.
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Then you have the state parks. Starved Rock is interesting. But the downstate parks aren't anything remarkable, and as a general rule, the campgrounds in the Illinois state parks suck- every one of them that I have seen consists of an open grassy field with the sites on top of each other.
Galena is pretty cool.
That's basically it.
That's where they went. Was shocked to have just learned of it last year. I guess it's a testament to everything Chicago offers but again, I would regularly see friends head North to Wisconsin to explore.
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Honestly, there isn't a whole lot to see in Downstate Illinois. That's why the "visit Illinois" commercials are 90% about Chicago. It's not really the states fault that they don't have much in the way of scenic beauty.
There is the Springfield area. I highly recommend the Lincoln Presidential Library and New Salem, which is a mini Colonial Williamsburg-type place where Lincoln lived as a young adult. Both are worth a visit.
Then you have the state parks. Starved Rock is interesting. But the downstate parks aren't anything remarkable, and as a general rule, the campgrounds in the Illinois state parks suck- every one of them that I have seen consists of an open grassy field with the sites on top of each other.
Galena is pretty cool.
That's basically it.
I always thought Galena was overrated. Went twice when I was young and neither time did I think "wow"
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I always thought Galena was overrated. Went twice when I was young and neither time did I think "wow"
Disagree, although I'm not sure many tourist areas make you go "wow."
We go to Galena every few years. The physical natural beauty of the greater area is excellent, so if that's not your thing, I could see not being impressed.
Galena the village .. it's a solid small tourist town. ~8 blocks of shopping and restaurants. What's not to like. I think it does lack class family amenities, mini golf, multiple resorts, waterparks and the like, but we toss it in the mix with Door County every few years.
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Disagree, although I'm not sure many tourist areas make you go "wow."
We go to Galena every few years. The physical natural beauty of the greater area is excellent, so if that's not your thing, I could see not being impressed.
Galena the village .. it's a solid small tourist town. ~8 blocks of shopping and restaurants. What's not to like. I think it does lack class family amenities, mini golf, multiple resorts, waterparks and the like, but we toss it in the mix with Door County every few years.
Maybe I'll give it a shot now that I'm an adult. But as 12yr and 10yr old I did not enjoy it as much as some of the other historic towns my dad and I road tripped to.
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Maybe I'll give it a shot now that I'm an adult. But as 12yr and 10yr old I did not enjoy it as much as some of the other historic towns my dad and I road tripped to.
Yeah, no doubt there, it's not tops for kids. Chestnut Mountain has a decent "Alpine Slide" and has a fantastic patio for lunch, overlooking the Mississippi. We've taken our 12 & 14 year old sons there a few times, including three weeks ago.
With 4 golf courses at Eagle Ridge, solid restaurant options downtown .. beautiful scenery and hills everywhere .. it's a solid adult area.
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Is any state in the Union less connected to its home state than Chicago?
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Honestly, there isn't a whole lot to see in Downstate Illinois. That's why the "visit Illinois" commercials are 90% about Chicago. It's not really the states fault that they don't have much in the way of scenic beauty.
My Grandma’s from Danville, and her side of the family is still there...I can co-sign. That’s as unpleasant a drive down as you can get. Then you drive west to Champaign and the cow smell is overwhelming in a way I’ve never experienced.
Is any state in the Union less connected to its home state than Chicago?
A couple....NYC and New York State are VERY different and opposing. The super cosmopolitan and eclectic demographics of Miami compared to most of the “Florida Man” population of the state.
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Is any state in the Union less connected to its home state than Chicago?
Austin vs Texas?
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Is any state in the Union less connected to its home state than Chicago?
Lotsa weirdos in non-Seatle-Tacoma parts of Washington.
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Lotsa weirdos in non-Seatle-Tacoma parts of Washington.
So you are saying there are no weirdos in the Seattle-Tacoma parts of Washington?
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So you are saying there are no weirdos in the Seattle-Tacoma parts of Washington?
I'll take my chances with the people think that pakuni think are weirdos, tbh.
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There are weirdos all over Washington. They are simply different types depending on whether or not you are in Seattle / Tacoma or not. I'd probably tire of all of them eventually.
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So you are saying there are no weirdos in the Seattle-Tacoma parts of Washington?
No, I'm saying that the Seattle-Tacoma portion of Washington is very disconnected from the rest of the state ... which was the topic of the discussion.
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I'll take my chances with the people think that pakuni think are weirdos, tbh.
Rural and eastern Washington are hotbeds of the Christian Identify and white nationalist movements, so if that's who you wish to cast your lot with....
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A couple....NYC and New York State are VERY different and opposing. The super cosmopolitan and eclectic demographics of Miami compared to most of the “Florida Man” population of the state.
But many NYCers love the Adirondacks, send their kids to schools all over the upstate, etc. Chicagoans seem to have no use for Illinois.
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I have good friends that live in Anna, Illinois.
They live closer to Tupelo, Mississippi than they do Chicago.
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Rural and eastern Washington are hotbeds of the Christian Identify and white nationalist movements, so if that's who you wish to cast your lot with....
Trying to secede and form their own "christian" state.
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Honestly, there isn't a whole lot to see in Downstate Illinois. That's why the "visit Illinois" commercials are 90% about Chicago. It's not really the states fault that they don't have much in the way of scenic beauty.
There is the Springfield area. I highly recommend the Lincoln Presidential Library and New Salem, which is a mini Colonial Williamsburg-type place where Lincoln lived as a young adult. Both are worth a visit.
Then you have the state parks. Starved Rock is interesting. But the downstate parks aren't anything remarkable, and as a general rule, the campgrounds in the Illinois state parks suck- every one of them that I have seen consists of an open grassy field with the sites on top of each other.
Galena is pretty cool.
That's basically it.
It is shocking to me that Illinois can have the most mileage of the Mississippi River, and its all ugly. There isn't anything scenic along that whole stretch?
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Rural and eastern Washington are hotbeds of the Christian Identify and white nationalist movements, so if that's who you wish to cast your lot with....
You miss the point. Yet again, Uncle Roman.
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You miss the point. Yet again, Uncle Roman.
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/lnOhH65fYwen62VzKk/200.gif)
Maybe go back to yelling at clouds.
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You miss the point. Yet again, Uncle Roman.
Hmmm, Christian Identity vs. CHAZ folks....
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/v0eHX3n28wvoQ/giphy.gif)
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I have good friends that live in Anna, Illinois.
They live closer to Tupelo, Mississippi than they do Chicago.
To be fair, they do have that Casino Riverboat in Alton. But if it is like any of the others I have seen, not exactly worth the trip.
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It is shocking to me that Illinois can have the most mileage of the Mississippi River, and its all ugly. There isn't anything scenic along that whole stretch?
Try Mississippi Palisades in Savanna.
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"People in Wisconsin called the State Unemployment Office 41 MILLION TIMES between March and June. An audit just found shows that just 0.5% of those calls were answered."
"Ppl in Wisconsin called the state unemployment office *41 million* times between March and June. An audit has just now found just 0.5% of those calls were answered."
https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1309719423184441344?s=19
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The rise in cases and positivity rate in WI are alarming. A new record of 2,817 cases today and a positivity rate of 22%.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/data.htm
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"People in Wisconsin called the State Unemployment Office 41 MILLION TIMES between March and June. An audit just found shows that just 0.5% of those calls were answered."
"Ppl in Wisconsin called the state unemployment office *41 million* times between March and June. An audit has just now found just 0.5% of those calls were answered."
https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1309719423184441344?s=19
Where’s the outrage? That is incredibly bad. Oh that’s right, Walker’s no longer the gov, a Democrat is. Never mind.
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Oh and Evers Administration also failed to report key information to legislators about scope of the problem.
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Oh and Evers Administration also failed to report key information to legislators about scope of the problem.
This has been in the news, heavily, for every state since April/May. Wisconsin tripled their staff at the DWD to try to tackle the problem in May and it was all over the news. If you missed it that's on you.
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The rise in cases and positivity rate in WI are alarming. A new record of 2,817 cases today and a positivity rate of 22%.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/data.htm
Cases are alarming and something to be concerned about but it is reported the state has a back log of negative tests they are holding so they make sure the positive cases are contact traced. Not sure how big the backlog will be but something to i read.
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This has been in the news, heavily, for every state since April/May. Wisconsin tripled their staff at the DWD to try to tackle the problem in May and it was all over the news. If you missed it that's on you.
I was commenting on news of this audit. Well aware of the disaster calling Unemployment has been, not to mention processing benefits. But this audit brings into sharp focus and quantifies somewhat how awful.
And tripling staff in May wasn’t near enough was it? A band aid on a bullet wound. Because this audit showed miserable performance through end of June! And then to top it off, information withheld by Evers and his staff.
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Cases are alarming and something to be concerned about but it is reported the state has a back log of negative tests they are holding so they make sure the positive cases are contact traced. Not sure how big the backlog will be but something to i read.
This might be a dumb question, but is there any effort in reporting a negative case?
I can see prioritizing running tests on symptomatic cases and slowing down running tests on non symptomatic. But just don’t know the benefit of holding something back if you know it’s negative.
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This might be a dumb question, but is there any effort in reporting a negative case?
I can see prioritizing running tests on symptomatic cases and slowing down running tests on non symptomatic. But just don’t know the benefit of holding something back if you know it’s negative.
Yeah - I had the same question when I read that comment. Usually when a test is run for a communicable disease that is reportable to the state, it gets done automatically. I know that’s the way they set up tests at most of the labs I have worked with.
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Cases are alarming and something to be concerned about but it is reported the state has a back log of negative tests they are holding so they make sure the positive cases are contact traced. Not sure how big the backlog will be but something to i read.
This makes no sense. Releasing a negative test is little to no effort.
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I agree, how would releasing a negative test result impact contact tracing?
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Negative tests are put to the bottom of the pile to process and dedupe. Its counter intuitive but when the positive tests go up in volume the negative testing processing goes down which is why you'll see the PTR % go sky high for a while then come crashing down because the negative tests "take longer to process".
Also keep in mind, different labs take different timelines for all tests so today's numbers reflect test results that are anywhere from 4 hours to 6 days old
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"People in Wisconsin called the State Unemployment Office 41 MILLION TIMES between March and June. An audit just found shows that just 0.5% of those calls were answered."
The Unemployment office is staffed and budgeted for a weekly sprinkle of rain. COVID is a Cat 5 hurricane in comparison.
Of course millions of calls went unanswered. It's what happens when you put 40 million pounds of sand in a 10 pound bag.
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Of course millions of calls went unanswered. It's what happens when you put 40 million pounds of sand in a 10 pound bag.
Diamonds? Oh. That wasn't a question. But anyway, you get exotic salt:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/12/scienceshot-salt-under-pressure
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Cases are alarming and something to be concerned about but it is reported the state has a back log of negative tests they are holding so they make sure the positive cases are contact traced. Not sure how big the backlog will be but something to i read.
Source?
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WI cases 'down' to 2,217 today...but the positivity rate is an alarming 27.6%. Wtf, Wisconsin?
https://twitter.com/DHSWI/status/1310293170165551105?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
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And it isn't just the college towns. Right now, Wiscy is #1.
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Cases are alarming and something to be concerned about but it is reported the state has a back log of negative tests they are holding so they make sure the positive cases are contact traced. Not sure how big the backlog will be but something to i read.
So I was looking at the number of tests conducted vs. the reported results, and thought about this post. For instance, on 9/24... almost 29,000 tests were conducted. The announced results in the week following never got over 15k.
I'm genuinely curious how to interpret this. I assume those results would be spread out some as they come in.
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So I was looking at the number of tests conducted vs. the reported results, and thought about this post. For instance, on 9/24... almost 29,000 tests were conducted. The announced results in the week following never got over 15k.
I'm genuinely curious how to interpret this. I assume those results would be spread out some as they come in.
Test counts go up and down for, well, random reasons, at the whims of humans deciding they have a headache or think Bob from down the street coughed on them, or that they want to visit grampa and need a clean test. Large bulk jumps likely mean an entire sector has motivation, like schools wanting all their students tested.
This is why I find the % positive reports to be a flimsy statistic. It shows kinda sorta something on a particular day.
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Test counts go up and down for, well, random reasons, at the whims of humans deciding they have a headache or think Bob from down the street coughed on them, or that they want to visit grampa and need a clean test. Large bulk jumps likely mean an entire sector has motivation, like schools wanting all their students tested.
This is why I find the % positive reports to be a flimsy statistic. It shows kinda sorta something on a particular day.
Given what we have heard about testing...
1) not always quick & accessible
2) results can take days to come back
Wouldn't you guess that the majority of people being tested are those with symptoms / immediate exposure. We know we're not testing a huge swath of people so why are we surprised by positivity rates? And why are they such a measuring stick?
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Test counts go up and down for, well, random reasons, at the whims of humans deciding they have a headache or think Bob from down the street coughed on them, or that they want to visit grampa and need a clean test. Large bulk jumps likely mean an entire sector has motivation, like schools wanting all their students tested.
Sure, but what I noticed is that the combined positive and negative results announced don't come close to the amount of tests conducted, even over a larger sample.
EDIT: They are differentiating the percent positive by person vs. by test.
https://bi.wisconsin.gov/t/DHS/views/PercentPositivebyTestPersonandaComparisonandTestCapacity/ComparisonDashboard?:isGuestRedirectFromVizportal=y&:embed=y
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Given what we have heard about testing...
1) not always quick & accessible
2) results can take days to come back
Wouldn't you guess that the majority of people being tested are those with symptoms / immediate exposure. We know we're not testing a huge swath of people so why are we surprised by positivity rates? And why are they such a measuring stick?
Always found that odd as well if we are testing everyone daily then yes good measuring stick but I know by me they are only testing those with symptoms
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Sure, but what I noticed is that the combined positive and negative results announced don't come close to the amount of tests conducted, even over a larger sample.
I don't know if the "backlog of negative results" thing is true or not, but there seems to be a backlog of results somewhere.
Just how big is the backlog? The dhs site says the daily testing capacity is 39,000 we are not even close to that. If the capacity is 39,000 and we are not close i do not get why all the results are not displayed. If we were hitting 39,000 daily then makes sense for the backlog.
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Test counts go up and down for, well, random reasons, at the whims of humans deciding they have a headache or think Bob from down the street coughed on them, or that they want to visit grampa and need a clean test. Large bulk jumps likely mean an entire sector has motivation, like schools wanting all their students tested.
This is why I find the % positive reports to be a flimsy statistic. It shows kinda sorta something on a particular day.
It's a fine stat if you use a 7-10 day rolling average.
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My son had a high school friend who went to college in California. She said it was amazing how little most Californians travel. She wanted to get a group of her friends to come to Wisconsin for a short visit over the summer, go to Summerfest, find a place on a lake somewhere. You would have thought she asked them to climb Mount Everest.
While living in California, our manager said he was taking a trip back east. When I asked where, he said Utah. But Californians do travel - Nevada, Mexico, and Hawaii predominantly. Travel to what we might consider standard destinations are much farther for them. Europe is a long trip and much pricier. Quicker to get to Japan for them, but again pricey, both in airfare and staying.
I lived in Winston Salem, NC for a while. Most people I worked with had not traveled out of the state even though the border was a half an hour away. We used to go skiing in West Virginia for the day. Natives in WS thought it was an almost impossible task. They would ask two questions - how and why.
My daughter pointed out to me that she has visited more countries than states. We were going to change that this past summer, but um, no.
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Test counts go up and down for, well, random reasons, at the whims of humans deciding they have a headache or think Bob from down the street coughed on them, or that they want to visit grampa and need a clean test. Large bulk jumps likely mean an entire sector has motivation, like schools wanting all their students tested.
This is why I find the % positive reports to be a flimsy statistic. It shows kinda sorta something on a particular day.
This is like anything...worthless if you only look at it in isolation or make wild decisions based on one day of info--helpful if trended especially within a mosaic of other statistics.
I would agree that if you don't have a goal/intention to sufficiently test your population and sample your outbreak (incl asymptomatic) it is probably not that important to watch.
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DHS just "corrected" their numbers. They werent counting repeat testers, only people. So if you are a high risk for getting it (medical, grocery store worker, etc.) and are testing weekly, your test wasn't being counted. Only new people that tested were getting counted in the ratio.
So, if you tested in May and were negative, and then tested again in September, you weren't counted amoung the negatives. (DHS's logic qas that they didnt want someone who was positive to test again, still be positive, and have that count as a new case. *Dr Westerburg, Chief medical officer at DHS, 9/15/20.
Makes sense to not double count a still positive person, but when the positivity rate is being used as a metric to reopen, that horribly skews the data.
Positive rate dropped from 19% to 9% when all negative tests were counted.
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DHS just "corrected" their numbers. They werent counting repeat testers, only people. So if you are a high risk for getting it (medical, grocery store worker, etc.) and are testing weekly, your test wasn't being counted. Only new people that tested were getting counted in the ratio.
So, if you tested in May and were negative, and then tested again in September, you weren't counted amoung the negatives. (DHS's logic qas that they didnt want someone who was positive to test again, still be positive, and have that count as a new case. *Dr Westerburg, Chief medical officer at DHS, 9/15/20.
Makes sense to not double count a still positive person, but when the positivity rate is being used as a metric to reopen, that horribly skews the data.
Positive rate dropped from 19% to 9% when all negative tests were counted.
Well catastrophic to very bad. That's something.
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I also believe they are not counting the surveillance testing in the daily state-wide reporting. Meaning if you are a nurse on a covid floor and are tested every third day or whatever, unless you pop positive they are not including those results in the daily count.
I believe the change in not reporting "duplicate" negatives is new. The case count has obviously grown but based on the changes in state reporting over the last two weeks, the %PR isn't useful as a comparison of now to previous in the pandemic.
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Great system we have.
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It's a fine stat if you use a 7-10 day rolling average.
Yep. And in WI it has been consistently over 15% for the past couple of weeks. The state currently lists the 7-day average as 17.2%. Way too high.
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I also believe they are not counting the surveillance testing in the daily state-wide reporting. Meaning if you are a nurse on a covid floor and are tested every third day or whatever, unless you pop positive they are not including those results in the daily count.
I believe the change in not reporting "duplicate" negatives is new. The case count has obviously grown but based on the changes in state reporting over the last two weeks, the %PR isn't useful as a comparison of now to previous in the pandemic.
Its new because a wispolitics reporter called bullchit on DHS for not including all of the test data.
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Its new because a wispolitics reporter called bullchit on DHS for not including all of the test data.
This sounds a lot more convoluted then how our state behaved. They just kept adding test capacity until that plus lower spread got the positivity down. Now they are watching it on the upswing lately to ensure they keep a handle on it--while trying to increase testing further.
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I also believe they are not counting the surveillance testing in the daily state-wide reporting. Meaning if you are a nurse on a covid floor and are tested every third day or whatever, unless you pop positive they are not including those results in the daily count.
I believe the change in not reporting "duplicate" negatives is new. The case count has obviously grown but based on the changes in state reporting over the last two weeks, the %PR isn't useful as a comparison of now to previous in the pandemic.
Do you have a source that leads you to this conclusion, or are you just speculating?
I know people at hospitals here in MN, and every test they run is included in what they report to the state.
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It's a fine stat if you use a 7-10 day rolling average.
Is it? Not trying to be smart here, but why?
I get it .. the larger the sample size the better. -- I mean, yeah, it'd be awesome to have a stat that says "7.2% of all Wisconsinites have it. Yesterday that was 7.5%, so we're improving." But when you are testing .0034% of the population/day, does it mean anything?
If it's a flimsy stat on Day 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7, why does averaging seven flimsy stats together make it any better?
You are still at the whim of people going to get tested because they have a relatively random reason to do so, times 7.
I don't understand the fascination.
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As I understand it, it's an indication of how much it has spread in a community.
I think it meant more earlier on, because now the obvious answer is "a lot."
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Is it? Not trying to be smart here, but why?
I get it .. the larger the sample size the better. -- I mean, yeah, it'd be awesome to have a stat that says "7.2% of all Wisconsinites have it. Yesterday that was 7.5%, so we're improving." But when you are testing .0034% of the population/day, does it mean anything?
If it's a flimsy stat on Day 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7, why does averaging seven flimsy stats together make it any better?
You are still at the whim of people going to get tested because they have a relatively random reason to do so, times 7.
I don't understand the fascination.
Reporting/testing is typically lower on the weekend. A lot of people test monday morning before they go to work. The techs are hungover on friday. Lots of things.
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https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/watch-live-governor-pritzker-gives-covid-19-update-ahead-of-new-restrictions-in-northwest-illinois/
Illinois is going to separate Champaign County metrics from the rest of the east central region due to the high number of tests at the U of I. Without Champaign, the region is over 7 percent, much higher than with Champaign in the mix.
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Do you have a source that leads you to this conclusion, or are you just speculating?
I know people at hospitals here in MN, and every test they run is included in what they report to the state.
I know a person on the DHS data team
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I know a person on the DHS data team
"Hello, my name is mu03eng, and I work for for the DHS data team now"
I know...not what you said...
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https://youtu.be/Lj4adAAHa68 (https://youtu.be/Lj4adAAHa68)
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I know a person on the DHS data team
Gotcha. Interesting that they're handling it this way, as it decreases the value of the positivity rate.
Just another example of how different reporting/testing practices among the states makes it so hard to compare the data.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/wisconsin/2020/09/30/coronavirus-wisconsin-record-27-people-died-surge-contineus/5871982002/
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/wisconsin/2020/09/30/coronavirus-wisconsin-record-27-people-died-surge-contineus/5871982002/
Yep.
Cases -> Hospitalizations-> Deaths
So much for ‘case numbers don’t matter.’
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Inevitable. Thanks to the choices being made.
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Inevitable. Thanks to the choices being made.
I see those choices every day.
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MADISON - Air Force One is no longer planning to touch down in La Crosse on Saturday, suggesting President Donald Trump has likely changed one of two rallies he scheduled in Wisconsin this weekend in cities experiencing a surge in coronavirus cases.
The potential change of plans comes hours after La Crosse Mayor Tim Kabat asked Trump's campaign to cancel or postpone the rally the president planned to hold at the city's airport to avoid spreading the virus, which is infecting area residents at one of the highest rates in the country.
"From a perspective of trying to slow the spread of coroanvirus and trying to reduce our case numbers and get the challenges we're facing here in La Crosse under control, I'm pleased," Kabat said. "I understand with a campaign season and a presidential election, all of these things will become political but we're trying to do right by our community."
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Odd that a return to college campuses by students, as well as a return to in person classes at the K-12 level would coincide with an unprecedented spike in cases, followed by a surge in deaths.
Who could have foreseen such a circumstance?
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Odd that a return to college campuses by students, as well as a return to in person classes at the K-12 level would coincide with an unprecedented spike in cases, followed by a surge in deaths.
Who could have foreseen such a circumstance?
But that's not where it is coming from. From what I have been told, the hospitalizations are being traced back to gatherings (family gatherings, bars, etc.) dating back into the summer.
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The huge spike in cases around college campuses doesn't apply in Wisconsin?
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But that's not where it is coming from. From what I have been told, the hospitalizations are being traced back to gatherings (family gatherings, bars, etc.) dating back into the summer.
This is a really hot take that doesn't pass the sniff test.
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The huge spike in cases around college campuses doesn't apply in Wisconsin?
The spike in cases yes, but not the resulting hospitalizations or deaths.
This is a really hot take that doesn't pass the sniff test.
Well I'm just going by what I have heard locally. The people in the hospital currently are by and large NOT being traced to K-12 cases or colleges / universities, but to private gatherings where people were not properly masked or distanced.
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For what it's worth, in the past several weeks, the U29 groups have decreased or flattened (at an untenably high level, mind you) as opposed to the others growing much faster. The total volume still heavily skews young though, and that's not to say that the old aren't getting it from the young.
Moral of the story is Wisconsin is failing all the way around.
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For what it's worth, in the past several weeks, the U29 groups have decreased or flattened (at an untenably high level, mind you) as opposed to the others growing much faster. The total volume still heavily skews young though, and that's not to say that the old aren't getting it from the young.
Moral of the story is Wisconsin is failing all the way around.
But at least conservatives are suing to stop the mask mandate. That should improve things.
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We're in week #5 of full time face to face learning at our grade school and not one case. Kids & teachers wearing masks 100% + maintaining some distance does help.
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But at least conservatives are suing to stop the mask mandate. That should improve things.
And Trump seems dead set at killing my family back home by introducing a superspreader event to the area.
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But at least conservatives are suing to stop the mask mandate. That should improve things.
I'm very close to saying screw it, let them have their way, and then shutting off the hospitals in the big cities from non-mask mandate counties. They can overwhelm their 'heroes' while we treat ours with respect.
At some point, you gotta let the Johnny stick his finger in the electrical outlet to learn a lesson.
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I'm very close to saying screw it, let them have their way, and then shutting off the hospitals in the big cities from non-mask mandate counties. They can overwhelm their 'heroes' while we treat ours with respect.
At some point, you gotta let the Johnny stick his finger in the electrical outlet to learn a lesson.
Hards_ hitting the bottle early tonight!!
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Hards_ hitting the bottle early tonight!!
Nah, just sick of the stupid debate about masks. There shouldn't be one because the science is settled. If folks at this point want to grab the rattlesnake by the tail after being warned repeatedly, then by all means. But they should stick to their podunk hospitals with third rate rate staff and equipment. When the beds are full they can cry a river to their masters that are willing to kill them to preserve their 'freedoms'.
Also, I'm still at work finishing up, so no boozy.
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Nah, just sick of the stupid debate about masks. There shouldn't be one because the science is settled. If folks at this point want to grab the rattlesnake by the tail after being warned repeatedly, then by all means. But they should stick to their podunk hospitals with third rate rate staff and equipment. When the beds are full they can cry a river to their masters that are willing to kill them to preserve their 'freedoms'.
Also, I'm still at work finishing up, so no boozy.
Wow, you could not come across more arrogant or obnoxious. It is these “podunk” hospitals with third rate staff and equipment that you despise who are now being asked to take on Covid positive patients because the urban, high brow, metro areas they surround are being over run and have no beds.
Instead of focusing on the very small % of people who refuse to wear a mask for whatever reason why can’t you just come to the realization that this thing needs to run it’s course. Mitigation measures are put in place to mitigate, not eradicate. It’s the worst damn global pandemic of our lifetimes and to treat every person who contracts COVID or god forbid dies from it as a moron who wouldn’t wear a mask says more about you then the freedom thumping hillbillies you are obsessed with.
I regret checking in to see how things were going on this page.
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I regret checking in to see how things were going on this page.
We regret it, too.
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Wow, you could not come across more arrogant or obnoxious. It is these “podunk” hospitals with third rate staff and equipment that you despise who are now being asked to take on Covid positive patients because the urban, high brow, metro areas they surround are being over run and have no beds.
Instead of focusing on the very small % of people who refuse to wear a mask for whatever reason why can’t you just come to the realization that this thing needs to run it’s course. Mitigation measures are put in place to mitigate, not eradicate. It’s the worst damn global pandemic of our lifetimes and to treat every person who contracts COVID or god forbid dies from it as a moron who wouldn’t wear a mask says more about you then the freedom thumping hillbillies you are obsessed with.
I regret checking in to see how things were going on this page.
I regret you coming into check to. You posted a political article that had already been posted. What did you expect to accomplish? Did you want to own the libs? Wow, you did a great job of it. We are so owned.
I'm glad you think I'm arrogant, but I'm done being nice to people who don't deserve it. You don't. The people flaunting the STATE ISSUED MASK MANDATE can rot. We are 7 months into this pandemic, and they don't care about us. So why should I continue to give a single crap about them? They want to go party and live it up, go to bars, go to casinos? Fine, then deal with the consequences.
Furthermore, you're a dolt if you think that it is only a very small percentage of people that aren't wearing masks. I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but I have been all over the state during this. I have been masked 100% of the time. I have seen what goes on. Masks are very much optional despite the signs on the doors of buildings.
The high brow metro area are overrun because of the people in the surrounding areas. The conservatives that can't be bothered to follow a mandate because it inconveniences the narrative of stupidity they've been fed. I'm just sick of it all, and you're in front of me defending stupidity.
I have hundreds of clients that have been ostracized from society entirely because of greedy fuch heads, and I'm sick of asking them nicely to put their god damned masks on.
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Nah, just sick of the stupid debate about masks. There shouldn't be one because the science is settled. If folks at this point want to grab the rattlesnake by the tail after being warned repeatedly, then by all means. But they should stick to their podunk hospitals with third rate rate staff and equipment. When the beds are full they can cry a river to their masters that are willing to kill them to preserve their 'freedoms'.
Also, I'm still at work finishing up, so no boozy.
At the risk of having people like Sultan attack me for politics, the entire mask "problem" is the fault of one person (hint: he is orange).
Your idea is not a terrible one, but would never happen because medical professionals are way better human beings than those who refuse to wear masks.
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I'm glad you think I'm arrogant, but I'm done being nice to people who don't deserve it. You don't. The people flaunting the STATE ISSUED MASK MANDATE can rot. We are 7 months into this pandemic, and they don't care about us. So why should I continue to give a single crap about them? They want to go party and live it up, go to bars, go to casinos? Fine, then deal with the consequences.
I couldn't have said it better.
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At this point, when I see someone maskless, the kindest thing I think is 'moron'.
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At this point, when I see someone maskless, the kindest thing I think is 'moron'.
On that note, Hope Hicks...welcome to the resistance
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Wisconsin Is Frazzled by Surging Virus Cases and Growing Campaign Frenzy
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/01/us/wisconsin-coronavirus-election.html
They have watched with growing alarm as coronavirus cases have exploded. Three of the four metro areas in the United States with the most cases per capita were in northeast Wisconsin, and one hospital in Green Bay, the third-largest city in the state, was nearly full this week.
Daily statewide deaths because of the coronavirus hit a record on Wednesday when officials reported that 26 people had succumbed to the virus. On Thursday, hospitalizations were at a high since the pandemic began, and more than 3,000 new cases were reported, another record.
The mayor of Oshkosh, Lori Palmeri, said she favored creating some new rules for bars and restaurants, which are free to operate at full capacity. But the City Council was unlikely to agree on any measures that could slow the virus’s spread, she said.
“I’m honestly not sure that anything we do right now will make a difference,” Ms. Palmeri said. “It’s too late.”
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Welcome to the Spotlight, Wisconsin.
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Wow, you could not come across more arrogant or obnoxious. It is these “podunk” hospitals with third rate staff and equipment that you despise who are now being asked to take on Covid positive patients because the urban, high brow, metro areas they surround are being over run and have no beds.
Instead of focusing on the very small % of people who refuse to wear a mask for whatever reason why can’t you just come to the realization that this thing needs to run it’s course. Mitigation measures are put in place to mitigate, not eradicate. It’s the worst damn global pandemic of our lifetimes and to treat every person who contracts COVID or god forbid dies from it as a moron who wouldn’t wear a mask says more about you then the freedom thumping hillbillies you are obsessed with.
I regret checking in to see how things were going on this page.
Pace, I don't know where you live but here in Wisconsin, when you get outside of Milwaukee / Madison DMAs, you sometimes never see masks. This isn't a lone wolf thing, it's entire communities. So pardon us if we don't want our hospitals to get over taken when they exhaust their limits. I live in a pretty conservative area of Milwaukee but everyone is masked up. Yet when I go to a store in Lake Geneva or Waupaca or Rice Lake, I get weird looks when I walk in with a mask. And now its all coming home to roost. It's too bad but it was inevitable, they long said it was the Milwaukee or the Minneapolis disease.
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Pace, I don't know where you live but here in Wisconsin, when you get outside of Milwaukee / Madison DMAs, you sometimes never see masks. This isn't a lone wolf thing, it's entire communities. So pardon us if we don't want our hospitals to get over taken when they exhaust their limits. I live in a pretty conservative area of Milwaukee but everyone is masked up. Yet when I go to a store in Lake Geneva or Waupaca or Rice Lake, I get weird looks when I walk in with a mask. And now its all coming home to roost. It's too bad but it was inevitable, they long said it was the Milwaukee or the Minneapolis disease.
Lens you will be happy to know when I go to the store in Sheboygan County I see 100% masks. Have been pretty good here about it.
I will have to agree with Pace on 1 thing the virus does need to run its course and i think we are seeing that here just like other areas have. It had to happen no chance the entire state would avoid the virus. That said we are getting in rough shape with hospitals so hopefully it slows down soon.
A neighbor in his 50's was in for 6 days. Was kept in all 6 days to only get oxygen and that was it no other treatment.
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I will have to agree with Pace on 1 thing the virus does need to run its course and i think we are seeing that here just like other areas have.
I understand this feeling, but does anyone have any data to support this? We were a hard hit area and cases and hospitalizations are on the rise. Europe same. Israel same. I just don’t know what evidence there is that a unchecked spread will be successful.
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I understand this feeling, but does anyone have any data to support this? We were a hard hit area and cases and hospitalizations are on the rise. Europe same. Israel same. I just don’t know what evidence there is that a unchecked spread will be successful.
not saying unchecked and we never really got hit hard.
Mask up, protect the vulnerable, wash your hands and be smart about things
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I understand this feeling, but does anyone have any data to support this? We were a hard hit area and cases and hospitalizations are on the rise. Europe same. Israel same. I just don’t know what evidence there is that a unchecked spread will be successful.
I’m not advocating for unchecked spread. I’m all for common sense mitigation. My point is people aren’t perfect. Despite the warnings of indoor dining, gathering in crowds, etc everyone has a breaking point, this has been going on for 8 months with no end in sight. So to say these people are morons or insinuate they deserve what they have coming to them if they get an incredibly contagious disease is unfortunate.
I travel the whole state for work and spend the majority of my days in hospitals. I’ve heard countless stories of people who said they did everything right for the last 3, 4, 5 months but there was this one time they forgot to do this or forgot to do that and they ended up getting it.
People who go to work and follow all the mitigation practices in place, still get it. People who decided not missing a wedding, funeral, baptism, etc was more important to them then the possibility of getting Covid. These are the stories I hear and believe represent the vast majority of cases in Wisconsin where good people have been doing their damn best for almost a year in not contracting it but slipped up.
Not the non mask wearing, freedom loving lunatics a few here focus so heavily on. I’m not denying those people exist, but there aren’t 100s of thousands of them in this state.
For what it’s worth, while I travel the state whether I’m in Marshfield, Madison, Milwaukee or Door County mask compliance is very consistent. Consistently good.
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I will have to agree with Pace on 1 thing the virus does need to run its course
I'm not sure what this means. Herd immunity?
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People who go to work and follow all the mitigation practices in place, still get it.
Yep.
People who decided not missing a wedding, funeral, baptism, etc was more important to them then the possibility of getting Covid.
Well this is a problem. Sure if you are masked and social distanced. But too many people aren't - and they should know better.
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I'm not sure what this means. Herd immunity?
It means no matter what we do it will spread. WE can stay in our basements for the next year and it will still be around and then it will get us then. The entire idea is to slow the spread, impossible to stop the spread.
So yes herd immunity but over a long period of time
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Virtually every expert says herd immunity, unless through a vaccine, is not even close, and would costs millions of lives if attainable. Smallpox, polio, none of those were eliminated without a vaccine.
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Virtually every expert says herd immunity, unless through a vaccine, is not even close, and would costs millions of lives if attainable. Smallpox, polio, none of those were eliminated without a vaccine.
Notice I said over a long period of time. So that included with the vaccine. So with a vaccine and a slow spread of the virus we get back to normal
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reports from the frontlines in Wisconsin:
https://www.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/2020/10/01/wisconsin-coronavirus-hospitalizations-worry-staff-who-fear-surge/3574106001/?fbclid=IwAR35ZIRWNNriWnlErsuh3EXclpysP08FNXnz48sf-UsvCTRCHgWQK6CRORA
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Instead of focusing on the very small % of people who refuse to wear a mask for whatever reason why can’t you just come to the realization that this thing needs to run it’s course.
My office in Brookfield has a mask mandate when in the building except none of the Trumpeters working here will wear a mask anyway. We don't have any mask police so it isn't even questioned, just try to stay 6 feet away.
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My office in Brookfield has a mask mandate when in the building except none of the Trumpeters working here will wear a mask anyway. We don't have any mask police so it isn't even questioned, just try to stay 6 feet away.
in my personal office I can go maskless, but anytime I leave it masks are required.
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I don't believe the wearing of masks in stores is what drives the virus that much. Yes, wear your masks. It's a risk.
But "close contacts" are being within 6 feet for 15 minutes. That doesn't happen at the gas station. (Wear your mask anyways.)
It's all the bars and restaurants, parties, family gatherings, rallies (and protests) and challenging work environments that are the high risk areas.
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Wow, you could not come across more arrogant or obnoxious. It is these “podunk” hospitals with third rate staff and equipment that you despise who are now being asked to take on Covid positive patients because the urban, high brow, metro areas they surround are being over run and have no beds.
Instead of focusing on the very small % of people who refuse to wear a mask for whatever reason why can’t you just come to the realization that this thing needs to run it’s course. Mitigation measures are put in place to mitigate, not eradicate. It’s the worst damn global pandemic of our lifetimes and to treat every person who contracts COVID or god forbid dies from it as a moron who wouldn’t wear a mask says more about you then the freedom thumping hillbillies you are obsessed with.
I regret checking in to see how things were going on this page.
This might be the most ignorant thing I've read on this board ever. Been on COVID team since April. Since about the middle of the June 90% of our COVID patients have not been from our metro county, but from the small county hospitals around us. I will leave it at that.
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This might be the most ignorant thing I've read on this board ever. Been on COVID team since April. Since about the middle of the June 90% of our COVID patients have not been from our metro county, but from the small county hospitals around us. I will leave it at that.
What part of the state is your hospital? Maybe it’s not an area I’ve been too recently I’m just sharing with what I’ve been told about bed management issues up in NE Wisco. That they are now transferring Covid patients out to critical access hospitals in rural areas cause the larger city hospitals have no room.
Maybe we’re both being a little ignorant/tunneled vision in what we are personally seeing and hearing the last couple weeks with this most recent surge.
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What part of the state is your hospital? Maybe it’s not an area I’ve been too recently I’m just sharing with what I’ve been told about bed management issues up in NE Wisco. That they are now transferring Covid patients out to critical access hospitals in rural areas cause the larger city hospitals have no room.
Maybe we’re both being a little ignorant/tunneled vision in what we are personally seeing and hearing the last couple weeks with this most recent surge.
"Both sides.."
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Remember back in the day when the theory that counties and municipalities were better able to manage this because of varying levels of spread across the state? And that is why statewide mandates weren't necessary?
Now look at Wisconsin. An absolute disaster.
And its all a result of our political disaster. A legislature that is doing nothing. A governor who wakes up every so often to issue a toothless statement.
A negotiated approach, with give and take by all sides, would have left us in a better place. Instead we have this. A very sad statement.
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Every time I check in on this thread, I am grateful for our NC governor, who has handled both the pandemic response and the political side of things about as well as possible.
Like the Wis governor, he is a Dem dealing with a GOP state legislature. He has earned his salary this year, and then some.
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What part of the state is your hospital? Maybe it’s not an area I’ve been too recently I’m just sharing with what I’ve been told about bed management issues up in NE Wisco. That they are now transferring Covid patients out to critical access hospitals in rural areas cause the larger city hospitals have no room.
Maybe we’re both being a little ignorant/tunneled vision in what we are personally seeing and hearing the last couple weeks with this most recent surge.
1. Where is a "critical access hospital in rural areas?" You literally said in your first post that they have third rate equipment. Why would hospitals send their patients to places that don't have the equipment to treat them? The only way I could see this happening is if the patients are not ready to return home, if there are no "step down places" (skilled nursing facilities, who refuse to accept for various reasons). But those patients are not in critical care. There could also be times where hospitals wouldn't accept patients because of space, but those are the breaks. I haven't seen it yet.
2. In an earlier post, you mentioned that you travel all over the state to different hospitals, but now it's concentrated to NE Wisconsin. I get there are metro areas of Appleton, Oshkosh, Green Bay, but those lines are pretty blurred. If you start telling me that patients are getting transferred out of Madison to say Fort Atkinson, then you would be correct. But that isn't happening and the exact opposite has happened probably hundreds of times since this started.
3. If you work the majority of your days in a hospital, wear a mask and promote mask wearing by everyone.
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1. Where is a "critical access hospital in rural areas?" You literally said in your first post that they have third rate equipment. Why would hospitals send their patients to places that don't have the equipment to treat them? The only way I could see this happening is if the patients are not ready to return home, if there are no "step down places" (skilled nursing facilities, who refuse to accept for various reasons). But those patients are not in critical care. There could also be times where hospitals wouldn't accept patients because of space, but those are the breaks. I haven't seen it yet.
2. In an earlier post, you mentioned that you travel all over the state to different hospitals, but now it's concentrated to NE Wisconsin. I get there are metro areas of Appleton, Oshkosh, Green Bay, but those lines are pretty blurred. If you start telling me that patients are getting transferred out of Madison to say Fort Atkinson, then you would be correct. But that isn't happening and the exact opposite has happened probably hundreds of times since this started.
3. If you work the majority of your days in a hospital, wear a mask and promote mask wearing by everyone.
1) Critical access hospitals are typically only found in rural areas, I’m confused by you question/statement. I never once said they have third rate staff and equipment, that was a comment made by Hards_ that I full heartedly disagreed with.
You are exactly right in that the acute care hospitals of the Fox valley/GB area are running out of beds on their Covid units because majority of patients they’re seeing are from assisted living, SNFs, or nursing home type settings who won’t let that patient return until a negative test. Majority of these folks ive been told aren’t sick enough to justify the extended LOS but are stuck waiting for the virus to run its course.
2) I’ve been working in that area of the state for last couple weeks but do travel the entire state, just have been spending majority of my time up there working on a project.
3) I have, I do, and I will
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Every time I check in on this thread, I am grateful for our NC governor, who has handled both the pandemic response and the political side of things about as well as possible.
Like the Wis governor, he is a Dem dealing with a GOP state legislature. He has earned his salary this year, and then some.
Similar here in MN, except our legislature is split (Senate controlled by GOP; House by Dems). While I haven't agreed with every decision our Governor has made, he has done a solid job in an impossible time. Every state around us has dramatically higher per capita rates of illness, even though MN tests more and has dealt with everything from the George Floyd killing and protests to several Trump rallies.
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Similar here in MN, except our legislature is split (Senate controlled by GOP; House by Dems). While I haven't agreed with every decision our Governor has made, he has done a solid job in an impossible time. Every state around us has dramatically higher per capita rates of illness, even though MN tests more and has dealt with everything from the George Floyd killing and protests to several Trump rallies.
Yep yep. There have been a couple decisions that have left me scratchin' my head, but overall I'm quite impressed with what he's done and the explanations he has given. Like you, we have fared much better than our peers, especially the last few months. And he's done it with the state legislature and the president second-guessing him at every turn.
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Yep yep. There have been a couple decisions that have left me scratchin' my head, but overall I'm quite impressed with what he's done and the explanations he has given. Like you, we have fared much better than our peers, especially the last few months. And he's done it with the state legislature and the president second-guessing him at every turn.
MN and NC have done great especially when you’re looking at deaths per capita.
You know who has done better, Wisco!!
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MN and NC have done great especially when you’re looking at deaths per capita.
You know who has done better, Wisco!!
Wisconsin should be praised for anything. We are a disaster.
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MN and NC have done great especially when you’re looking at deaths per capita.
You know who has done better, Wisco!!
Earlier peaks, before as much was known about how to treat COVID. And here in MN, many of the early cases (and deaths) were in meat processing plants in rural parts of the state, so treatment was slow.
Context is important.
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Earlier peaks, before as much was known about how to treat COVID. And here in MN, many of the early cases (and deaths) were in meat processing plants in rural parts of the state, so treatment was slow.
Context is important.
Both Wisconsin and Minnesota essentially have the same overall population with the same 7 day moving avg for number of deaths so if you’re happy with MN you should be happy with WI, no?
NC has 10 mil people versus Wisconsin’s 6 mil with a 7 day moving bag of deaths almost 3x’s that of Wisconsin??
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Both Wisconsin and Minnesota essentially have the same overall population with the same 7 day moving avg for number of deaths so if you’re happy with MN you should be happy with WI, no?
NC has 10 mil people versus Wisconsin’s 6 mil with a 7 day moving bag of deaths almost 3x’s that of Wisconsin??
I don't know where you're getting your data, but according to the New York Times, the 7-day moving average for deaths is 1.4 per 100,000 in WI, and 1.2 per 100,000 in MN (17% higher in WI). And the 7-day average for new cases is 303 in WI and 127 in MN (137% higher in WI).
Neither is the 'same.' And since new cases -> hospitalizations -> deaths, the disparity in deaths is going to get worse before it gets better.
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I don't know where you're getting your data, but according to the New York Times, the 7-day moving average for deaths is 1.4 per 100,000 in WI, and 1.2 per 100,000 in MN (17% higher in WI). And the 7-day average for new cases is 303 in WI and 127 in MN (137% higher in WI).
Neither is the 'same.' And since new cases -> hospitalizations -> deaths, the disparity in deaths is going to get worse before it gets better.
We shall see how the next couple months shake out. I agree that MN has done well, just surprised you can’t bring yourself to admitting WI has also done a pretty good job when our overall numbers are better and recent numbers are comparable (talking deaths of course).
Overall infection number as of late doesn’t concern me as much as who is getting it. You’re right in that hospitalizations are up and deaths recently as well. 🙏 those trends reverse themselves soon!
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We shall see how the next couple months shake out. I agree that MN has done well, just surprised you can’t bring yourself to admitting WI has also done a pretty good job when our overall numbers are better and recent numbers are comparable (talking deaths of course).
Overall infection number as of late doesn’t concern me as much as who is getting it. You’re right in that hospitalizations are up and deaths recently as well. 🙏 those trends reverse themselves soon!
They won’t be if we don’t stop setting new records for new cases.
Its like you’re being willingly stupid.
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They won’t be if we don’t stop setting new records for new cases.
Its like you’re being willingly stupid.
I played in a golf outing this morning that had a buffet lunch after. Many seniors played in it and were sitting in the clubhouse without masks and not social distancing. I happily ate my lunch outside sitting on my trunk of my car.
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We shall see how the next couple months shake out. I agree that MN has done well, just surprised you can’t bring yourself to admitting WI has also done a pretty good job when our overall numbers are better and recent numbers are comparable (talking deaths of course).
Overall infection number as of late doesn’t concern me as much as who is getting it. You’re right in that hospitalizations are up and deaths recently as well. 🙏 those trends reverse themselves soon!
I can’t bring myself to admit that Wisconsin has done a pretty good job because it hasn’t. It is one of the country’s major hotspots right now.
And if you go back in the thread, you will see that I said I have concerns with some of the decisions Minnesota’s governor has made, and hope we do better even better than we’re doing.
You can be happy with how things are going in Wisconsin if you like, but if I have to ride out the pandemic in one state or the other, I am happy to be doing it west of the Mississippi River.
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They won’t be if we don’t stop setting new records for new cases.
Its like you’re being willingly stupid.
Yeah. I keep letting myself get baited by him, and need to stop.
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Yeah. I keep letting myself get baited by him, and need to stop.
Because I don’t let inaccurate comments go unchallenged means I’m baiting you?
When MU82 and you said NC and MN have done Such a good job handling the pandemic I was interested to see how well it was actually going so looked up the numbers. Was surprised to see that for how well your two states have done mine has actually done better up til this point when it comes to keeping people alive, that’s all.
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Because I don’t let inaccurate comments go unchallenged means I’m baiting you?
When MU82 and you said NC and MN have done Such a good job handling the pandemic I was interested to see how well it was actually going so looked up the numbers. Was surprised to see that for how well your two states have done mine has actually done better up til this point when it comes to keeping people alive, that’s all.
I did not make inaccurate comments. You first said that Minnesota and Wisconsin’s seven day moving averages were ‘the same.’ I proved that you were wrong and explained why Minnesota’s early numbers were worse. Then you pivoted back and looked at overall numbers, which I had already explained.
As I said, if you are happy being in Wisconsin with the way things are going, good for you. I am happy not to be there right now.
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I did not make inaccurate comments. You first said that Minnesota and Wisconsin’s seven day moving averages were ‘the same.’ I proved that you were wrong and explained why Minnesota’s early numbers were worse. Then you pivoted back and looked at overall numbers, which I had already explained.
As I said, if you are happy being in Wisconsin with the way things are going, good for you. I am happy not to be there right now.
Yes you really made me look like a fool by breaking down the 7 day avg and showing the .2 difference. Sorry I rounded to the nearest whole number.
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Yes you really made me look like a fool by breaking down the 7 day avg and showing the .2 difference. Sorry I rounded to the nearest whole number.
I did not intend to make you look like a fool. I simply wanted to correct an error.
Peace.
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NC has been trending in the right direction for some time now. Wisconsin has been trending in the wrong way.
Look at any list of states headed in the wrong direction, and Wisconsin is high on it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/03/health/us-coronavirus-saturday/index.html
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/index.html#cases_casesinlast7days
Or you can argue just to argue.
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NC has been trending in the right direction for some time now. Wisconsin has been trending in the wrong way.
Look at any list of states headed in the wrong direction, and Wisconsin is high on it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/03/health/us-coronavirus-saturday/index.html
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/index.html#cases_casesinlast7days
Or you can argue just to argue.
Bad faith arguments, goal post shifting... ya know, just a typical day here at scoop
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Bad faith arguments, goal post shifting... ya know, just a typical day here at scoop
Bad faith arguments and goal post shifting? By simply pointing to the data?
I wasn’t even trying to have an argument but rather to agree with Goo that MN and WI are doing fairly well.
NC can’t even be in the same sentence as MN or WI so not sure what MU82 was talking about.
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Wisconsin isn't doing fairly well. It's a disaster.
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Wisconsin isn't doing fairly well. It's a disaster.
It’s got the potential of becoming a disaster depending on demographics of these historically high daily case counts.
The data suggests that for the first 8 months of this pandemic there are few places you would rather be. Hopefully we close this out better then Woj closes out a typical BE
Conference season.
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Close out? We as a nation are half way through at best. Unless the latest wake up call is actually heeded.
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Close out? We as a nation are half way through at best. Unless the latest wake up call is actually heeded.
In regards to Wisconsin hospitalization peak is expected in next 7-10 days. Hopefully after that we see a steady decline in numbers.
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In regards to Wisconsin hospitalization peak is expected in next 7-10 days. Hopefully after that we see a steady decline in numbers.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/usleGLxmeqgUw/giphy.gif)
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(https://media0.giphy.com/media/usleGLxmeqgUw/giphy.gif)
You need to include the next line of Andy's dialogue, which is "Is it deliberate?"
Yes, yes it is.
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A peak would imply a change in behavior is coming. I think there'll be a long, upwards plateau in Wisconsin instead.
I think the attitude, especially in rural areas .. is they are tired of it all. And not enough people are dying to actually make people change their practices. Most people live, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
(I also wonder about the impact of (fewer) in-person funerals. I've attended two virtual funerals and .. it's 80% less sad. Just another sad story on TV, let's see what's on next, eh.)
Gonna be a long long journey.
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From a friend in northern Wisconsin:
up at our cabin in far N Wisconsin, this whole summer most locals were not wearing masks, now this morning at the market/in town, it's magic, every single person in town is wearing a mask, about time !
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I see more mask wearing.
But I also see way too much risky behavior.
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From a friend in northern Wisconsin:
up at our cabin in far N Wisconsin, this whole summer most locals were not wearing masks, now this morning at the market/in town, it's magic, every single person in town is wearing a mask, about time !
For many covid was not real until it hit close to home. Maybe this surge is a wake up call!!
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It is too early to talk about a peak in hospitalizations when the number of new cases is still increasing. Once WI has seen a clear plateau (and hopefully downward trajectory) in new cases, the peak in hospitalizations will likely occur a week or two later.
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For many covid was not real until it hit close to home. Maybe this surge is a wake up call!!
Not for some people.
Sen. Ron Johnson Took COVID Test En Route To Wisconsin Fundraising Dinner. It Was Positive.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ron-johnson-covid-positive-fundraising-dinner-wisconsin_n_5f78ec9bc5b649e564b3a101?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=main_fb&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&fbclid=IwAR12k5oxxm95NsqRHMVNIV6G87VkgKu9Ln5PeMeNQxJXImaV8SJe9WfGo7o
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Not for some people.
Sen. Ron Johnson Took COVID Test En Route To Wisconsin Fundraising Dinner. It Was Positive.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ron-johnson-covid-positive-fundraising-dinner-wisconsin_n_5f78ec9bc5b649e564b3a101?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=main_fb&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&fbclid=IwAR12k5oxxm95NsqRHMVNIV6G87VkgKu9Ln5PeMeNQxJXImaV8SJe9WfGo7o
I know how stupid I had to listen to his comments on the news last night a few times to see if he was really that dumb. Just respect others if sick is that so hard to ask.
My wife who is a teacher just made the comment that teachers in her building are healthy at the start of October for first time cause kids are actually staying home when sick
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Not for some people.
Sen. Ron Johnson Took COVID Test En Route To Wisconsin Fundraising Dinner. It Was Positive.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ron-johnson-covid-positive-fundraising-dinner-wisconsin_n_5f78ec9bc5b649e564b3a101?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=main_fb&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&fbclid=IwAR12k5oxxm95NsqRHMVNIV6G87VkgKu9Ln5PeMeNQxJXImaV8SJe9WfGo7o
What an effen d-bag.
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Bad faith arguments and goal post shifting? By simply pointing to the data?
I wasn’t even trying to have an argument but rather to agree with Goo that MN and WI are doing fairly well.
NC can’t even be in the same sentence as MN or WI so not sure what MU82 was talking about.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/81f78dd11e918fde1c83e2f3c9bb9a59/tenor.gif)
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As of today, the 7-day deaths per 100,000 population are 1.6 in WI and 1.2 in MN...a 33% difference. The gap in new cases continues to grow as well.
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As of today, the 7-day deaths per 100,000 population are 1.6 in WI and 1.2 in MN...a 33% difference. The gap in new cases continues to grow as well.
With that 33% difference in 7-day death it will only take about 6 years to catch Minnesota in overall deaths.
Looking forward to daily updates for the next 1900+ days
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With that 33% difference in 7-day death it will only take about 6 years to catch Minnesota in overall deaths.
Looking forward to daily updates for the next 1900+ days
You ignore the fact that the disparity in deaths is growing rapidly (17% yesterday and 33% today). Also, Wisconsin’s 7-day average for new cases is approaching 150% more than Minnesota‘s, and that disparity has been growing quickly. Since cases -> hospitalizations-> deaths, the increasing disparity in current deaths is likely to continue for a while.
If you feel safer in Wisconsin though, that makes me happy, as it sounds like you are there for the duration.
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Not for some people.
Sen. Ron Johnson Took COVID Test En Route To Wisconsin Fundraising Dinner. It Was Positive.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ron-johnson-covid-positive-fundraising-dinner-wisconsin_n_5f78ec9bc5b649e564b3a101?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=main_fb&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&fbclid=IwAR12k5oxxm95NsqRHMVNIV6G87VkgKu9Ln5PeMeNQxJXImaV8SJe9WfGo7o
From the article:
“I’m not sick,” Johnson insisted to the newspaper. “I have no symptoms. I certainly didn’t anticipate testing positive, so there was no reason to quarantine.” COVID “can be transmitted by individuals who are infected but do not have symptoms,” the CDC has repeatedly noted.
Wow - that's a ridiculous thing to say. The reason you quarantine is because you were exposed to Covid and you want to prevent possibly spreading it to other people. He should not have gone to that event Friday night.
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From the article:
“I’m not sick,” Johnson insisted to the newspaper. “I have no symptoms. I certainly didn’t anticipate testing positive, so there was no reason to quarantine.” COVID “can be transmitted by individuals who are infected but do not have symptoms,” the CDC has repeatedly noted.
Wow - that's a ridiculous thing to say. The reason you quarantine is because you were exposed to Covid and you want to prevent possibly spreading it to other people. He should not have gone to that event Friday night.
Criminal negligence.
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Good move by Evers to bring down indoor gatherings to 25% should have done this sooner but hopefully this helps curb the spike like similar orders did in other states
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Good move by Evers to bring down indoor gatherings to 25% should have done this sooner but hopefully this helps curb the spike like similar orders did in other states
My social media feed is blowing up with “eff Evers!”
Which is exactly why we are where we are as a state and country. Because it’s the guy’s fault who’s trying to control the spread, not the people who recklessly ignore the deadly worldwide pandemic going on. Ignorance is bliss, baby.
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My social media feed is blowing up with “eff Evers!”
Which is exactly why we are where we are as a state and country. Because it’s the guy’s fault who’s trying to control the spread, not the people who recklessly ignore the deadly worldwide pandemic going on. Ignorance is bliss, baby.
Unfortunately, in this case, the ‘ignorance’ is laced with vitriol.
The numbers in WI have been skyrocketing. It boggles my mind that so many people still don’t see what is staring them in the face.
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Unfortunately, in this case, the ‘ignorance’ is laced with vitriol.
The numbers in WI have been skyrocketing. It boggles my mind that so many people still don’t see what is staring them in the face.
Yes indeed and it also baffles me and bothers me how people can be so flippant about the people who have died of Covid :(.
And it scares me that my 8th grader is supposed to move from a hybrid schedule to everyone in the school on 10/19 with the numbers so bad in Wisconsin right now.
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My social media feed is blowing up with “eff Evers!”
Which is exactly why we are where we are as a state and country. Because it’s the guy’s fault who’s trying to control the spread, not the people who recklessly ignore the deadly worldwide pandemic going on. Ignorance is bliss, baby.
Sounds like something driven by Russian troll bots.
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Unfortunately, in this case, the ‘ignorance’ is laced with vitriol.
The numbers in WI have been skyrocketing. It boggles my mind that so many people still don’t see what is staring them in the face.
Humans have an inherent lack of understanding of their own mortality. We also have problems (as a species) planning for the future. So couple those together, and then add in a major disinformation campaign... and we have what we have.
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Saw an interesting interview with a local Republican legislator regarding Evers' order. He expressed a lot of concern about local businesses (which is obviously a legit concern), and implored people to wear masks, practice social distancing and to be safe.
I'm wondering if their internal polling is starting to show that simply coming out against whatever Evers tries to do is starting to become a losing strategy.
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I admit I look at this from the Milwaukee lens, but I hope they find a way to reconcile the city's 60 page protocol for restaurants with this order. A lot of places have put a lot of time and effort into getting up to those standards.
Milwaukee hasn't been perfect, but it's not the driver of this outbreak. Hopefully someone wakes Barrett up to place a call to the Gov on this.
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I admit I look at this from the Milwaukee lens, but I hope they find a way to reconcile the city's 60 page protocol for restaurants with this order. A lot of places have put a lot of time and effort into getting up to those standards.
Milwaukee hasn't been perfect, but it's not the driver of this outbreak. Hopefully someone wakes Barrett up to place a call to the Gov on this.
Co-sign. Milwaukee has figured out the right blend and should be allowed to keep doing what is apparently working. Evers' Secretary of the Department of Administration is Joel Brennan of Milwaukee who has a very good relationship with Barrett, hopefully that pays off.
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And that is what is so infuriating about this. If the legislative and executive leaders could have gotten together on this months ago, we would not only have more consistent protocols in place, but we wouldn't have this outbreak as well.
Too many times I have seen places with signs that say something like "if you are not wearing a mask, we assume you have a medical condition that prevents it."
This is exactly what "no plan" does. Every single one of these f*ckers should be voted out out office. But they won't be.
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Too many times I have seen places with signs that say something like "if you are not wearing a mask, we assume you have a medical condition that prevents it."
I tend to be on the "do what you're gonna do, but gimme some space" side of the mask issue. I wear one, but I typically don't get worked up if I come across someone without one. I just give them distance and go about my business.
But yesterday, I stopped to pick some beer up at a store on the south side. They have signs up basically saying "Hey, the city requires it, please wear one so we don't get fined." Some guy barges in, almost runs into me, ranting about how this is all "Democratic bullsh*t" and how "he's never gonna wear a goddamn mask."
I just don't know how you legislate against this kind of mentality, honestly.
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Just an aside about Milwaukee .. Trinity (near the Bradley Center) did file a "safety plan" that was approved. Yet this was posted three days ago.
It has since been deleted because duh.
(https://i.redd.it/ayl4bksvf4r51.jpg)
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Just an aside about Milwaukee .. Trinity (near the Bradley Center) did file a "safety plan" that was approved. Yet this was posted three days ago.
It has since been deleted because duh.
(https://i.redd.it/ayl4bksvf4r51.jpg)
Wow... no different than it was back in college. Ridiculous.
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Just an aside about Milwaukee .. Trinity (near the Bradley Center) did file a "safety plan" that was approved. Yet this was posted three days ago.
It has since been deleted because duh.
(https://i.redd.it/ayl4bksvf4r51.jpg)
and we wonder why it is spreading in WI!! Been saying it for months bars and clubs are the worst places to be right now. everyone talking loud in confined space and then they jsut take the virus right back to their roommate or family.
I feel for the owners of bars and clubs but it is just not right to let a place get that crowded during these times
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Trinity might be falling into a weird problem though. Realistically the outside and other two pubs may have been ghost towns so even if they let in 25% capacity but that 25% all pack in the middle pub it's gonna look like this. No different than how a house party is going to look very different if every floor and room is open vs the same number of people packed into a basement.
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But they were the obviously crowing about it. The city should take action.
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I tend to be on the "do what you're gonna do, but gimme some space" side of the mask issue. I wear one, but I typically don't get worked up if I come across someone without one. I just give them distance and go about my business.
But yesterday, I stopped to pick some beer up at a store on the south side. They have signs up basically saying "Hey, the city requires it, please wear one so we don't get fined." Some guy barges in, almost runs into me, ranting about how this is all "Democratic bullsh*t" and how "he's never gonna wear a goddamn mask."
I just don't know how you legislate against this kind of mentality, honestly.
I know someone who "has a Dr. friend that told him masks do nothing more for COVID than underwear does for your farts". Yeah but Joe, even your farts never killed anyone.
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I know someone who "has a Dr. friend that told him masks do nothing more for COVID than underwear does for your farts". Yeah but Joe, even your farts never killed anyone.
This all makes me feel like I need to give any doctor a quick science quiz before I accept them as a medical provider.
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This all makes me feel like I need to give any doctor a quick science quiz before I accept them as a medical provider.
I use this one, I've heard its great!
(https://media.tegna-media.com/assets/WNEP/images/29f1497e-f6ee-487a-92c1-86925cae3f65/29f1497e-f6ee-487a-92c1-86925cae3f65_1140x641.gif)
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I know someone who "has a Dr. friend that told him masks do nothing more for COVID than underwear does for your farts". Yeah but Joe, even your farts never killed anyone.
It’s interesting. Sometimes doctors are the ones i see touching their masks and using home made ones. But I suppose, even in the healthcare industry, people view and act differently.
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It’s interesting. Sometimes doctors are the ones i see touching their masks and using home made ones. But I suppose, even in the healthcare industry, people view and act differently.
As with any profession, there are smarter docs and not-as-smart ones. Granted, the average doc is still well above the curve in terms of general intelligence, but they're not all geniuses. And in terms of common sense and discipline in day-to-day activities, they're basically like everyone else.
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And don't even get me started on dentists.
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As with any profession, there are smarter docs and not-as-smart ones. Granted, the average doc is still well above the curve in terms of general intelligence, but they're not all geniuses. And in terms of common sense and discipline in day-to-day activities, they're basically like everyone else.
A few of my friends and I have a theory that of the two professions, lawyers have much better street smarts, financial acumen, common sense, etc than doctors. We reasoned that the incredibly long schooling & residency etc keeps them out of the real world.
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https://www.nbc15.com/2020/10/07/wisconsin-activates-field-hospital-as-covid-keeps-surging/
I can't wait until the Republicans blame Governor Evers for the increase in cases, and full hospitals.
Just your friendly neighborhood doomer here to say I told you so before it happens.
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I use this one, I've heard its great!
(https://media.tegna-media.com/assets/WNEP/images/29f1497e-f6ee-487a-92c1-86925cae3f65/29f1497e-f6ee-487a-92c1-86925cae3f65_1140x641.gif)
And I’m the one who gets accused of making fun of trump? :-\ :-\
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It’s interesting. Sometimes doctors are the ones i see touching their masks and using home made ones. But I suppose, even in the healthcare industry, people view and act differently.
When my mom was being treated for cancer at the Moffitt cancer center, I was stunned to see doctors and nurses outside smoking.
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"Person ... woman ... man ... camera ... TV ... And the doctors, they were amazed. They said they had never seen anybody do as well as I did. ... Person ... woman ... man ... camera ... TV."
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"Person ... woman ... man ... camera ... TV ... And the doctors, they were amazed. They said they had never seen anybody do as well as I did. ... Person ... woman ... man ... camera ... TV."
Not to pile on, but a doctor would never give those 5 words as a test. If you notice, the words are connected which would never happen.
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A new record of 3,132 cases reported in WI today. Almost 300 more than the previous high. :(
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New Marquette Law School poll shows that COVID-19 weighs heavily in Wisconsin voters' minds.
https://law.marquette.edu/poll/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/MLSP64ToplinesRV.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20201009&instance_id=22976&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer®i_id=108420427&segment_id=40408&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
“Certainly, with the sharp rise in cases here, it’s on the agenda for voters,” said Charles Franklin, a political scientist who runs the Marquette Law School poll, which is seen as the definitive political survey in the state. “His handling of Covid does appear to be having a bigger effect on people’s vote than either the economy or his handling of the protests.”
Biden's 48% approval rating in the poll released this week was his best in a Marquette survey all year, capping a 14-point rise since February. Trump, meanwhile, was seen positively by 42% of Wisconsin voters, leaving his net favorability rating more than 10 points in the red, where it has languished since June.
More than 6 in 10 Wisconsin voters polled described themselves as at least fairly worried — including 27% who said they were very worried, up from 21% last month. 50% of Wisconsin voters said they did not expect the virus to be under control for at least another year, running counter to Trump’s insistence that it is already being handled effectively.
In Democratic strongholds like Milwaukee and Madison, the margins actually improved slightly for Democrats between the 2012 and 2016 presidential elections. Dane County, which includes Madison, is the state’s fastest-growing county, and is probably the No. 1 area where Democrats will be looking to run up the score.
And with Wisconsin’s heavily white population growing older, thanks to the aging of the baby boom generation, Trump’s underperformance among voters 65 and older in polls this year could help Biden across the state.
Green Bay, a heavily blue-collar city in the northeastern part of the state, has been in the news recently as the coronavirus has surged. The Packers announced this week that for the time being no fans would be allowed to attend games at Lambeau Field. Data released by the NFLPA at the end of last month showed that Green Bay had a higher rate of infection than any other team’s market.
For Trump, all of this puts an unwelcome focus on the coronavirus in the most politically volatile region of the state.
“Green Bay, Appleton and other cities in that region have moved pretty noticeably in a Democratic direction since 2010,” Franklin said. “The surrounding counties in the region, though, have stayed very Republican, and to the north and west of Green Bay have become even more Republican than before. So the result is, the whole region is still pretty competitive.”
Brown County, which includes Green Bay, broke for Trump by nine points in 2016, but with Biden turning back Trump’s advantage among suburbanites and building his support among the urban Democratic base, it could be up for grabs this year.
Over all, Wisconsin’s population is almost evenly split between Democrats and Republicans, but there’s still a slight Democratic tilt to the electorate, especially when voter engagement is high, since Democrats tend to do better among demographics with lower turnout.
And this year, signs are pointing to what could be a historically high level of participation. 75% of registered voters polled said they were certain to cast a ballot, compared with 71% on the eve of the 2016 election. And official statistics on requests for absentee ballots suggest that if anything, voters are even more engaged than they’re telling pollsters.
“In our data, about 33 percent say they’re going to vote absentee by mail — but election officials have already sent out 1.2 million ballots,” Franklin said, referring to ballots mailed to voters who have expressly requested them. “That would give us about 36 percent of the total registered voters, so that would be a little over what we have in our polling data, though not out of line with it.”
State estimates suggest that Wisconsinites could cast upward of 3.1 million ballots this year, for the first time in history.
A high-turnout election would most likely lift Democrats — but it could help pollsters too. In 2016, a late break toward Trump, combined with unexpectedly low participation among Democratic voters, threw the state to him.
Unlike some researchers in other states, Marquette’s team in 2016 made sure to weight its data by education levels, and it did not significantly underestimate Trump’s strength among white voters without degrees. But what did surprise Franklin that year was Trump’s success in the suburbs, which he won by 16 points, according to Wisconsin exit polls.
This year, however, Biden’s lead over Trump among suburbanites has been steady and strong: Marist’s most recent poll of Wisconsin put him up by 12 points in the suburbs — and on handling the coronavirus, suburban voters chose Biden over the president by 22 points.
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A few of my friends and I have a theory that of the two professions, lawyers have much better street smarts, financial acumen, common sense, etc than doctors. We reasoned that the incredibly long schooling & residency etc keeps them out of the real world.
I would agree with this, most of the time. The ER docs I work with are the most brilliant, personable people I’ve ever worked with. Other specialties (sup neurology), not so much.
For those keeping score at home, my urban hospital accepted patients from rural hospitals, 115 and 150 miles from us this week.
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Judge denies GOP effort to end Tony Evers' mask mandate, upholding governor's ability to issue health orders
Republicans have vowed to continue to fight to prevent having to wear masks and also to allow larger gatherings.
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Judge denies GOP effort to end Tony Evers' mask mandate, upholding governor's ability to issue health orders
Republicans have vowed to continue to fight to prevent having to wear masks and also to allow larger gatherings.
That judge was appointed by Walker in 2015.
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That judge was appointed by Walker in 2015.
Most judges appointed by either side tend to be intellectually honest.
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When my mom was being treated for cancer at the Moffitt cancer center, I was stunned to see doctors and nurses outside smoking.
I don't know about doctors but I am always stunned to see nurses and other hospital staff smoking right outside of hospital doors during their breaks.
My dad's practice partners in the 80's included one doctor who smoked cigarettes and one who smoked a pipe (wife smoked cigarettes). Eventually both quit those habits. I never understood it. As an adult I've never met a doctor who smoked, but plenty of the lesser educated nurses (not the 4 year college grads but the strip mall "nursing school" grad types).
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I don't know about doctors but I am always stunned to see nurses and other hospital staff smoking right outside of hospital doors during their breaks.
My dad's practice partners in the 80's included one doctor who smoked cigarettes and one who smoked a pipe (wife smoked cigarettes). Eventually both quit those habits. I never understood it. As an adult I've never met a doctor who smoked, but plenty of the lesser educated nurses (not the 4 year college grads but the strip mall "nursing school" grad types).
Thanks for that final distinction. Glad to know that the types of school people attend is such a significant factor.
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Wisconsin currently has 10 of the 20 metro areas with the highest per capita incidence of Covid-19 in the US over the past two weeks:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-ways-to-monitor-coronavirus-outbreak-us.html
Overall, the state is fourth in per capita incidence over the past week with 324 per 100K. That's more than triple the current US national average of approximately 107 per 100K.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?name=styln-coronavirus-national®ion=TOP_BANNER&label=undefined&module=undefined&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=Interactive&impression_id=a0ba42c1-0d9d-11eb-bb7d-79d4c646f084&variant=1_Show
Ugh.
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Wisconsin currently has 10 of the 20 metro areas with the highest per capita incidence of Covid-19 in the US over the past two weeks:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/23/upshot/five-ways-to-monitor-coronavirus-outbreak-us.html
Overall, the state is fourth in per capita incidence over the past week with 324 per 100K. That's more than triple the current US national average of approximately 107 per 100K.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?name=styln-coronavirus-national®ion=TOP_BANNER&label=undefined&module=undefined&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=Interactive&impression_id=a0ba42c1-0d9d-11eb-bb7d-79d4c646f084&variant=1_Show
Ugh.
Trump was right! I’m really, really tired of winning.
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Wisconsin's escalating coronavirus crisis reached a distressing level of severity Tuesday, as the state recorded its worst day of the pandemic yet following weeks of record-breaking numbers.
The state Department of Health Services reported 3,279 new cases and 34 deaths due to the coronavirus — both measures the highest of the pandemic.
The state crossed the grim threshold of 1,500 total deaths and reported its highest-ever average of new cases — 2,727 a day over the last seven days.
In related news, the state's powerful tavern lobby is suing Gov. Tony Evers' administration over new state limits on the number of customers bars and restaurants may serve at one time.
Let's go guys, we can get these numbers higher if we just work at it. :-\
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Had a rousing discussion today. Will deer hunting increase or decrease the numbers?
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Had a rousing discussion today. Will deer hunting increase or decrease the numbers?
Absolutely increase. It isn't about hunting, its about drinking.
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Absolutely increase. It isn't about hunting, its about drinking.
Thank you, followed up by snowmobiling season, which is just drinking and driving on snow.
Not great, Bob. Really looking forward to wrapping up the season and going back to WFH.
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Thank you, followed up by snowmobiling season, which is just drinking and driving on snow.
Not great, Bob. Really looking forward to wrapping up the season and going back to WFH.
Well maybe we get lucky and we don't get the snow snows.
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Well maybe we get lucky and we don't get the snow snows.
Going to need that snow to occupy the kids.
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Going to need that snow to occupy the kids.
Maybe a daily Polar Bear Plunge to keep the kids placid?
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A Sawyer County judge has, for now, blocked Gov. Tony Evers' latest order to curb the spread of coronavirus by limiting public gatherings and the number of customers bars and restaurants may serve at one time.
The order from Judge John Yackel knocks down the order at a time of record hospitalizations, new cases and deaths — and after bars and restaurants have lost a massive amount of revenue as customers stay away while the pandemic rages on in the state.
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A Sawyer County judge has, for now, blocked Gov. Tony Evers' latest order to curb the spread of coronavirus by limiting public gatherings and the number of customers bars and restaurants may serve at one time.
The order from Judge John Yackel knocks down the order at a time of record hospitalizations, new cases and deaths — and after bars and restaurants have lost a massive amount of revenue as customers stay away while the pandemic rages on in the state.
MU Law Grad
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Curious .. has anyone seen a study on .. what are the major transmission avenues?
I mean, we have tons of data, 3200+ people per day in the state getting infected. Where are they getting it? I'd first think it's bars and restaurants, but .. that's a lot of people.
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Curious .. has anyone seen a study on .. what are the major transmission avenues?
I mean, we have tons of data, 3200+ people per day in the state getting infected. Where are they getting it? I'd first think it's bars and restaurants, but .. that's a lot of people.
I'm not even convinced its restaurants (given they're following a roughly 50% rule, servers in masks etc). I really think it is packed bars and another other places where people gather in large, close groups and talk / yell / sing without masks. I'm starting to be of the belief that you can do most things as long as you space out and mask up. It's not that hard.
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I'm not even convinced its restaurants (given they're following a roughly 50% rule, servers in masks etc). I really think it is packed bars and another other places where people gather in large, close groups and talk / yell / sing without masks. I'm starting to be of the belief that you can do most things as long as you space out and mask up. It's not that hard.
I would guess weddings would be a big one. Lots of people in close quarters, with iffy social distancing.
Bars would be the biggest in my opinion. Looking at that picture of Trinity in Milwaukee where it was basically a mosh pit had me feeling squeamish.
I also think there’s just a lot of people that feel masking/distancing isn’t worth the effort, so they go about their life normally and spread it that way.
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Bars, weddings, and other family events. That's where many are being eventually traced to. That is why the idea of families getting together in close quarters is problematic for the Holidays.
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Bars, weddings, and other family events. That's where many are being eventually traced to. That is why the idea of families getting together in close quarters is problematic for the Holidays.
This.
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This.
Several of the people I know who have contracted COVID-19, did so dining outdoors with friends/family.
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Man, too bad we haven't invested in testing and contact tracing so that we could get actual answers.
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nm
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I'm not even convinced its restaurants (given they're following a roughly 50% rule, servers in masks etc). I really think it is packed bars and another other places where people gather in large, close groups and talk / yell / sing without masks. I'm starting to be of the belief that you can do most things as long as you space out and mask up. It's not that hard.
I was at Morningstar golf course in Waukesha last Saturday and they had a wedding reception where no one was masked up at all. They also had a full buffet. They’ve been doing concerts as well and the place gets packed
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On Wednesday, the leader of the legislative committee that has veto power over coronavirus policies brought to it by the Evers administration doubted there was a need for a field hospital. Sen. Steve Nass, R-Whitewater, claimed without evidence Evers was opening the overflow facility for political reasons.
Mr. Obvious! Evers could just have a Marine helicopter pick up these sick people and fly them to their own private hospital floor.
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Hasn’t Wisconsin had a bunch of Oktoberfest events lately too?
Drinking, shouting over the bands, toasts. I’m sure they were all completely safe.
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Hasn’t Wisconsin had a bunch of Oktoberfest events lately too?
Drinking, shouting over the bands, toasts. I’m sure they were all completely safe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most of those were cancelled.
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The legislature and governor better come to an agreement soon, because the next seven months are going to be much worse than the previous seven.
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The legislature and governor better come to an agreement soon, because the next seven months are going to be much worse than the previous seven.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DisguisedSorrowfulIlladopsis-size_restricted.gif)
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most of those were cancelled.
The biggest brewery in the Charlotte metro area, Olde Mecklenberg Brewing, had its "Mecktoberfest" celebration a couple weeks ago. It resulted in numerous infections, and at least one hospitalization.
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(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DisguisedSorrowfulIlladopsis-size_restricted.gif)
Yeah I know....
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A Sawyer County judge has, for now, blocked Gov. Tony Evers' latest order to curb the spread of coronavirus by limiting public gatherings and the number of customers bars and restaurants may serve at one time.
The order from Judge John Yackel knocks down the order at a time of record hospitalizations, new cases and deaths — and after bars and restaurants have lost a massive amount of revenue as customers stay away while the pandemic rages on in the state.
that's what happens when the Tavern League is one of the most powerful lobbying group in the state.
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The legislature and governor better come to an agreement soon, because the next seven months are going to be much worse than the previous seven.
Scoop's chief both-siderist.
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Scoop's chief both-siderist.
From someone who can't put a thought together unless authored by some self-reinforcing Twitter follow...
Anyway, if you think the Governor has done well, that's fine. But he hasn't.
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The wheels are officially falling off in Wisconsin...3,747 new cases today, breaking the previous high by about 500.
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I agree, Evers has not done well. He's done mediocre, grading on a curve that's bad.
If I could advise him .. I would tell him to wave a white flag. I would have Evers figuratively prostrate himself to Vos in the media, and downright beg him to hold a meeting where he (Evers) would agree to whatever plan Vos wanted in this time of need.
"Look, Vos and his team are going to stop every safety plan that comes from my office. Wisconsin is on fire right now, we need a state-wide effort, and I'll do whatever he wants for the sake of Wisconsin."
.. It's preposterous to think .. if Walker was Gov right now, COVID cases might be manageable right now.
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I agree, Evers has not done well. He's done mediocre, grading on a curve that's bad.
If I could advise him .. I would tell him to wave a white flag. I would have Evers figuratively prostrate himself to Vos in the media, and downright beg him to hold a meeting where he (Evers) would agree to whatever plan Vos wanted in this time of need.
"Look, Vos and his team are going to stop every safety plan that comes from my office. Wisconsin is on fire right now, we need a state-wide effort, and I'll do whatever he wants for the sake of Wisconsin."
.. It's preposterous to think .. if Walker was Gov right now, COVID cases might be manageable right now.
Or just say, "I am going to walk over to the Assembly at 8:00 AM tomorrow morning so we can begin negotiations because it is beyond time for us to act," and then march across the Capitol to the Speaker's office.
Or whatever. Be more demonstrative.
But instead he just does everything virtually, reading from prepared remarks, and comes off as not willing to fight. For a guy who isn't exactly "exciting," his actions are just reinforcing what all his critics say about him.
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President Bartlet did that on the West Wing....
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That judge was appointed by Walker in 2015.
Trying to remember the last time I read about a legal decision and wasn't able to guess who had appointed the judge . Pretty sad comment on our judiciary. Better to know the judge than to know the law.
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I agree, Evers has not done well. He's done mediocre, grading on a curve that's bad.
If I could advise him .. I would tell him to wave a white flag. I would have Evers figuratively prostrate himself to Vos in the media, and downright beg him to hold a meeting where he (Evers) would agree to whatever plan Vos wanted in this time of need.
"Look, Vos and his team are going to stop every safety plan that comes from my office. Wisconsin is on fire right now, we need a state-wide effort, and I'll do whatever he wants for the sake of Wisconsin."
.. It's preposterous to think .. if Walker was Gov right now, COVID cases might be manageable right now.
Or....
since Rs control both houses, they could pass anything they want at any time.
As far as Walker is concerned, we wouldn't even have the bare minimum of a mask mandate now if he was governor.
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The wheels are officially falling off in Wisconsin...3,747 new cases today, breaking the previous high by about 500.
Here's a hint why. According to a September Marquette poll, only 21% are very concerned about COVID-19.
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Or just say, "I am going to walk over to the Assembly at 8:00 AM tomorrow morning so we can begin negotiations because it is beyond time for us to act," and then march across the Capitol to the Speaker's office.
Or whatever. Be more demonstrative.
But instead he just does everything virtually, reading from prepared remarks, and comes off as not willing to fight. For a guy who isn't exactly "exciting," his actions are just reinforcing what all his critics say about him.
Been saying this for months. It is the main problem with technocrats, and the democratic party. They suck so much ass at messaging.
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Been saying this for months. It is the main problem with technocrats, and the democratic party. They suck so much ass at messaging.
Is it the messaging or the message that sucks so much ass?
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Is it the messaging or the message that sucks so much ass?
You mean the "messaging" that we need an actual plan to mitigate our actions for this to be controlled?
Anyone who thinks that message "sucks so much ass" should just look around and see why Wisconsin is in such bad shape. That's the result.
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You mean the "messaging" that we need an actual plan to mitigate our actions for this to be controlled?
Anyone who thinks that message "sucks so much ass" should just look around and see why Wisconsin is in such bad shape. That's the result.
I was referring more to the message not related to the pandemic and historically speaking.
What else is Evers and the legislation supposed to do? Aside from the mask mandate and imposing another lockdown which I don’t think the majority of folks here support one can be done from the state level?
Schools being opened or closed is/should be a local decision along with business restrictions imo.
Honestly interested in others opinions to what we should be doing. You look globally at all the different approaches and non of them seemed to work any better then the others. To me it just seems unfortunately it’s our turn to grind out this recent spike.
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I was referring more to the message not related to the pandemic and historically speaking.
What else is Evers and the legislation supposed to do? Aside from the mask mandate and imposing another lockdown which I don’t think the majority of folks here support one can be done from the state level?
Schools being opened or closed is/should be a local decision along with business restrictions imo.
Honestly interested in others opinions to what we should be doing. You look globally at all the different approaches and non of them seemed to work any better then the others. To me it just seems unfortunately it’s our turn to grind out this recent spike.
No the business decisions shouldn't be local. That's the problem. People move.
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Seriously, anyone who spouts the line "what are they supposed to do," should just look around at what other states and countries are doing.
I know I shouldn't be surprised, but how can people be this dense???
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Is it the messaging or the message that sucks so much ass?
Messaging, stop being so simple minded. This is a center-left country controlled by center-right gerrymandered districts. It is also a lot more difficult for Dems to convince a MAJORITY of Americans to agree on policy when you have to appeal to such a wide base. Republicans win when they depress the vote enough, or Democrats can't unify behind a plan. Most Republicans are one or two issue voters (Abortion and either guns or taxes). Violate one and you're out. Democrats have to constantly toe the line over a wide range of topics, which naturally makes messaging more difficult. But simply because it is difficult doesn't mean it is impossible. They're just bad at unification and messaging. Generally, because they're afraid to offend someone in their base... or worse, a potential independent voter. It's why Biden and Harris can't say they'll stop fracking. They've got the numbers saying that they'll lose independents by saying that it should be banned. But they KNOW that the environmentalists of the party hate fracking... but what choice do they have? They aren't single issue voters, and the Dems want the Independents.
I apologize in advance for this being somewhat off topic, but hey, Pace took us here.
Evers is a terrible leader. He is awful at messaging, but wants to do the right thing.
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Seriously, anyone who spouts the line "what are they supposed to do," should just look around at what other states and countries are doing.
I know I shouldn't be surprised, but how can people be this dense???
I guess that’s what I’m trying to figure out. What are the top 2-3 things other states are doing that we aren’t doing?
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I guess that’s what I’m trying to figure out. What are the top 2-3 things other states are doing that we aren’t doing?
Japan’s 3 C’s.
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Messaging, stop being so simple minded. This is a center-left country controlled by center-right gerrymandered districts. It is also a lot more difficult for Dems to convince a MAJORITY of Americans to agree on policy when you have to appeal to such a wide base. Republicans win when they depress the vote enough, or Democrats can't unify behind a plan. Most Republicans are one or two issue voters (Abortion and either guns or taxes). Violate one and you're out. Democrats have to constantly toe the line over a wide range of topics, which naturally makes messaging more difficult. But simply because it is difficult doesn't mean it is impossible. They're just bad at unification and messaging. Generally, because they're afraid to offend someone in their base... or worse, a potential independent voter. It's why Biden and Harris can't say they'll stop fracking. They've got the numbers saying that they'll lose independents by saying that it should be banned. But they KNOW that the environmentalists of the party hate fracking... but what choice do they have? They aren't single issue voters, and the Dems want the Independents.
I apologize in advance for this being somewhat off topic, but hey, Pace took us here.
Evers is a terrible leader. He is awful at messaging, but wants to do the right thing.
1) Way to touch on all the talking points of voter suppression, gerrymandering, blah blah blah
2) If Republicans were 1-2 issue voters it would seem pretty easy for the Democratic Party to shift their stance on abortion, guns, taxes to win over those single issue voters while keeping their democrat base and then run the whole damn country. Or do they not because democrat voters are also 1-2 issue voters? Or maybe, just maybe, voters from both sides look at the total package of ideas/values of a candidate and make their decision from there.
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Japan’s 3 C’s.
Wasn’t familiar with what Japan 3 C’s meant but just read a bit about it. Love it!!
Government didn’t shut anything down just encouraged folks to avoid crowded spaces, closed places, and close contact settings.
So the same messaging state and federal governments have been saying here they were just more disciplined?
Also came across some people saying they weren’t doing much testing so they don’t think they’re giving an accurate picture of how bad it may or may not have gotten.
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1) Way to touch on all the talking points of voter suppression, gerrymandering, blah blah blah
2) If Republicans were 1-2 issue voters it would seem pretty easy for the Democratic Party to shift their stance on abortion, guns, taxes to win over those single issue voters while keeping their democrat base and then run the whole damn country. Or do they not because democrat voters are also 1-2 issue voters? Or maybe, just maybe, voters from both sides look at the total package of ideas/values of a candidate and make their decision from there.
As someone who worked on the Tammy Baldwin Campaign, volunteered for the 08 Obama campaign, and was a field director for two IL state Rep/sen races in republican districts (Tom Cullerton & Suzy Glowiak) I can tell you with 100% certainty that both sides are definitely 1-2 issue voters. In fact I had an extremely fiscally conservative candidate in the 74th district for IL House and people would still curse me out and slam the door on me all over Dupage county because she was socially liberal... and she was essentially a pro choice republican. Republicans who are fiscally conservative may look at the whole package but those who use religion as their ethos do not and are 1-2 issue voters.
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As someone who worked on the Tammy Baldwin Campaign, volunteered for the 08 Obama campaign, and was a field director for two IL state Rep/sen races in republican districts (Tom Cullerton & Suzy Glowiam) I can tell you with 100% certainty that both sides are definitely 1-2 issue voters. In fact I had an extremely fiscally conservative candidate in the 74th district for IL House and people would still curse me out and slam the door on me all over Dupage county because she was socially liberal... and she was essentially a pro choice republican. Republicans who are fiscally conservative may look at the whole package but those who use religion as their ethos do not and are 1-2 issue voters.
Interesting insider feedback, thanks for sharing!
In your experience you noticed the same with democrat voters? If there was a pro-life dem candidate who checked all the boxes aside from his or her view towards abortion there would then be a section of dem voters who would look elsewhere because of that one issue disagreement?
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Been saying this for months. It is the main problem with technocrats, and the democratic party. They suck so much ass at messaging.
Agree, I've said this many times.
John Kerry was perhaps the worst politician, and certainly the worst Presidential candidate, I have ever seen at messaging. Kerry never met a sound byte that he couldn't turn into a laborious three paragraph answer.
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Interesting insider feedback, thanks for sharing!
In your experience you noticed the same with democrat voters? If there was a pro-life dem candidate who checked all the boxes aside from his or her view towards abortion there would then be a section of dem voters who would look elsewhere because of that one issue disagreement?
In my limited experience with this it leads to lack of engagement rather than aggressively backing a different party's candidate
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As someone who worked on the Tammy Baldwin Campaign, volunteered for the 08 Obama campaign, and was a field director for two IL state Rep/sen races in republican districts (Tom Cullerton & Suzy Glowiak) I can tell you with 100% certainty that both sides are definitely 1-2 issue voters. In fact I had an extremely fiscally conservative candidate in the 74th district for IL House and people would still curse me out and slam the door on me all over Dupage county because she was socially liberal... and she was essentially a pro choice republican. Republicans who are fiscally conservative may look at the whole package but those who use religion as their ethos do not and are 1-2 issue voters.
Neoliberal hogwash. What are the one or two issues that Democrats vote on?
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1) Way to touch on all the talking points of voter suppression, gerrymandering, blah blah blah
2) If Republicans were 1-2 issue voters it would seem pretty easy for the Democratic Party to shift their stance on abortion, guns, taxes to win over those single issue voters while keeping their democrat base and then run the whole damn country. Or do they not because democrat voters are also 1-2 issue voters? Or maybe, just maybe, voters from both sides look at the total package of ideas/values of a candidate and make their decision from there.
1) They're not talking points. They're demonstrably true. They're just really inconvenient truths for you. As an example, go ask the folks in North Carolina. Or better yet, check out Wisconsin.
In fact, Wisconsin’s maps are so gerrymandered that Republicans can win close to a supermajority of house seats even with a minority of the vote. Analyses of the maps in the lawsuit challenging the maps showed that Republicans are a lock to win 60 percent of statehouse seats even if they win just 48 percent of the vote. This is precisely what happened in 2018, when Democrats won a majority of the statewide vote and swept statewide offices, but Republicans saw the size of their state-house delegation reduced by only a single seat, going from 64 of 99 seats to 63 seats.
Hell, even a Republican from Wisconsin agrees.
https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2020/09/11/gop-candidate-admits-to-gerrymandering-challenges-dems-to-draw-fair-maps/
I believe you're entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts... I think someone said something like that not too long ago.
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Wasn’t familiar with what Japan 3 C’s meant but just read a bit about it. Love it!!
Government didn’t shut anything down just encouraged folks to avoid crowded spaces, closed places, and close contact settings.
So the same messaging state and federal governments have been saying here they were just more disciplined?
Also came across some people saying they weren’t doing much testing so they don’t think they’re giving an accurate picture of how bad it may or may not have gotten.
The key difference was in Japan, leaders both emphasized the three C's, and led by example.
Here, we have our leader saying one thing, then doing the exact opposite and mocking people who are following those recommendations. That is absolute failure in leadership.
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A Green Bay doctor did a cable news interview this week.
The doctor asks every patient how they think they contracted COVID-19. By far the most common answer the doctor concluded was small family gatherings from asymptomatic relatives.
People are not wearing masks and distancing at their family gatherings. Children and grandchildren shopping for groceries and other errands are not being cautious enough 100% of the time and then giving it to family.
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Neoliberal hogwash. What are the one or two issues that Democrats vote on?
There are plenty of liberal women who would never vote for a pro-life democrat regardless of the rest of their platform.
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Wasn’t familiar with what Japan 3 C’s meant but just read a bit about it. Love it!!
Government didn’t shut anything down just encouraged folks to avoid crowded spaces, closed places, and close contact settings.
So the same messaging state and federal governments have been saying here they were just more disciplined?
Also came across some people saying they weren’t doing much testing so they don’t think they’re giving an accurate picture of how bad it may or may not have gotten.
Except the Japanese people are a much more considerate and mindful of the common good people vs. Americans. Many Americans are often selfish d*ckholes when you ask them to do something as simple as wear a mask. You see, every person in Japan wears a mask when they even have the common cold since they don't want to get anyone else sick. The thought of making someone sick weighs more than their minor inconvenience.
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There are plenty of liberal women who would never vote for a pro-life democrat regardless of the rest of their platform.
Well of course, but there are plenty of liberal women who would. I think you may be misconstruing what I'm saying. There is a much broader variation of 'deal-breakers' across liberals. Trump conservatives seem to be guns, taxes, and abortion. The rest doesn't matter at all. Otherwise why would Trump have 40% of the country adoring him? If tomorrow, Trump came out and said he was banning assault rifles, raising taxes, and asking congress to codify legalized abortions what would happen?
If tomorrow Biden were to say, I'm not outlawing any assault weapons, I'm lowering your taxes, and as a Catholic man of faith, I'm asking congress to codify abortions as illegal. I'd still vote for the guy because of his OTHER stances on the issues, and because he isn't Donald Trump. It would hurt, but I would hold my nose and vote for him. Just as I held my nose for Hillary.
There is a much wider range of deal-breakers for Dems than there are for Reps. That's all I'm saying.
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1) They're not talking points. They're demonstrably true. They're just really inconvenient truths for you. As an example, go ask the folks in North Carolina. Or better yet, check out Wisconsin.
In fact, Wisconsin’s maps are so gerrymandered that Republicans can win close to a supermajority of house seats even with a minority of the vote. Analyses of the maps in the lawsuit challenging the maps showed that Republicans are a lock to win 60 percent of statehouse seats even if they win just 48 percent of the vote. This is precisely what happened in 2018, when Democrats won a majority of the statewide vote and swept statewide offices, but Republicans saw the size of their state-house delegation reduced by only a single seat, going from 64 of 99 seats to 63 seats.
Hell, even a Republican from Wisconsin agrees.
https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2020/09/11/gop-candidate-admits-to-gerrymandering-challenges-dems-to-draw-fair-maps/
I believe you're entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts... I think someone said something like that not too long ago.
I’m not denying the existence of gerrymandering. It’s a game both sides play so for every one example of republican gerrymandering I’m sure I can find 1 from the dem side.
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So aside from Japan 3 C’s anything else we want Evers to be doing that other states have done that has proven to work better? Or any other country for that matter?
There’s no denying the cultural differences between America and Japan but that’s not something Evers can fix with any sort of legislative package.
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I’m not denying the existence of gerrymandering. It’s a game both sides play so for every one example of republican gerrymandering I’m sure I can find 1 from the dem side.
No kidding. So let the computers draw the maps fairly everywhere and codify it in the constitution. Oh wait, I forgot, we are Americans and can't have nice things.
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Japan’s 3 C’s.
Which is basically the same as what Evers has done. Social distancing, no large, closed gatherings, and wear masks.
The difference is the Japanese followed the rules and Americans didn’t.
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Or just say, "I am going to walk over to the Assembly at 8:00 AM tomorrow morning so we can begin negotiations because it is beyond time for us to act," and then march across the Capitol to the Speaker's office.
Or whatever. Be more demonstrative.
But instead he just does everything virtually, reading from prepared remarks, and comes off as not willing to fight. For a guy who isn't exactly "exciting," his actions are just reinforcing what all his critics say about him.
What......?
We know that masks and social distancing are the most effective steps we can take. So, you want Evers to agree with Vos and Fitzgerald that these aren’t really necessary, and instead do nothing. But, hey, he’ll look like a real “leader” bowing before the science deniers.
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Which is basically the same as what Evers has done. Social distancing, no large, closed gatherings, and wear masks.
The difference is the Japanese followed the rules and Americans didn’t.
Not to mention that a bi-partisan bill that is passed and supported by both the Legislature and the Governor would have gone a long way toward legitimizing what is being asked of people.
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What......?
We know that masks and social distancing are the most effective steps we can take. So, you want Evers to agree with Vos and Fitzgerald that these aren’t really necessary, and instead do nothing. But, hey, he’ll look like a real “leader” bowing before the science deniers.
LOL, where did I say this?
I know you're just a partisan hack, but at least I thought you could read. I guess not.
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Evers is a disaster. Shockin', hey?
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Which is basically the same as what Evers has done. Social distancing, no large, closed gatherings, and wear masks.
The difference is the Japanese followed the rules and Americans didn’t.
And there is a second reason why Americans aren't following the three Cs like the Japanese. The first is the Japanese cultural mindset mentioned earlier. The second is that Evers has faced several lawsuits challenging the rules, and some courts have delayed his ability to implement them. A perfect example is going on right now, with the court delaying Evers' proposed restrictions in bars and restaurants. So in the latter case, a person could technically 'follow the law' while still going to a crowded bar tonight.
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Evers is a disaster. Shockin', hey?
It's a race to the bottom between him and the legislative leaders who aren't doing anything.
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Evers is a disaster. Shockin', hey?
Walker's campaign must have been an even bigger disaster, hoo?
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No kidding. So let the computers draw the maps fairly everywhere and codify it in the constitution. Oh wait, I forgot, we are Americans and can't have nice things.
I’m on board with that!
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Not sure if this is the right topic to post this under based off the recent posts but another new record number of cases in WI today.
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It's a race to the bottom between him and the legislative leaders who aren't doing anything.
You equate a mask mandate and restrictions on the size of gatherings with doing nothing.
I don’t get the point.
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You equate a mask mandate and restrictions on the size of gatherings with doing nothing.
I don’t get the point.
I'm not surprised.
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Wisconsin is updating its Covid dashboard to provide better information. That's good.
Wisconsin officially 'reported' 0 cases over the weekend, since apparently they couldn't simply tweet out a number while its dashboard was being updated. That's incompetent, and it made it look in the press like the numbers were steady or declining. That's lazy and incompetent.
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+1000
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Wisconsin school coronavirus cases search/tracking
https://projects.jsonline.com/topics/coronavirus/schools/coronavirus-in-wisconsin-schools-search-covid-19.html
This information has been hard to get your hands on, but the Journal Sentinel is giving data collection a go. 422 schools that have had 2 or more cases in the last couple weeks out of 6k schools in the state. Hold onto your keesters!
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Wisconsin school coronavirus cases search/tracking
https://projects.jsonline.com/topics/coronavirus/schools/coronavirus-in-wisconsin-schools-search-covid-19.html
This information has been hard to get your hands on, but the Journal Sentinel is giving data collection a go. 422 schools that have had 2 or more cases in the last couple weeks out of 6k schools in the state. Hold onto your keesters!
This is an interesting idea but it's very out of date. It was last updated on October 4th for the District my kids are in and the District dashboard is updated very hour.
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This is an interesting idea but it's very out of date. It was last updated on October 4th for the District my kids are in and the District dashboard is updated very hour.
It has data from yesterday. Yesterday it had data from the day before. I feel like we're looking at different things.
Edit: Came back to reread. You said "for the district my kids are in." I missed that, mea culpa.
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Evers is a disaster. Shockin', hey?
well, when you have a hostile (gerrymandered to hell) Legislature and had your powers stripped by that legislature before you even took office there's not much one can do. All of this is on Vos and Fitzgerald.
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A mind-boggling 4,591 positives today with an even more mind-boggling 33% positivity rate. Wow.
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A mind-boggling 4,591 positives today with an even more mind-boggling 33% positivity rate. Wow.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/boom-in-covid-cases-4-591-likely-due-to-system-upgrades-and-backlog/ar-BB1adX6m?ocid=msedgntp
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It has data from yesterday. Yesterday it had data from the day before. I feel like we're looking at different things.
Edit: Came back to reread. You said "for the district my kids are in." I missed that, mea culpa.
No problem - I probably didn't word my post the best.
I look at our District's dashboard pretty regularly as they update it every hour. But it's also interesting to see what numbers are like for other area Districts.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/boom-in-covid-cases-4-591-likely-due-to-system-upgrades-and-backlog/ar-BB1adX6m?ocid=msedgntp
Either way, the average for the last few days is still close to 4000 cases per day. Just awful.
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Either way, the average for the last few days is still close to 4000 cases per day. Just awful.
The good news is at this rate we'll have herd immunity in Wisconsin in 2022!
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The good news is at this rate we'll have herd immunity in Wisconsin in 2022!
And a lot more elbow room.
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Either way, the average for the last few days is still close to 4000 cases per day. Just awful.
Hospitalizations and deaths will follow.
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Paul Casey, Emrgency Medicine, Bellin Health, Green Bay, WI said they admit more Covid-19 Pneumonia related patients in Brown County in one day than they do flu patients for an entire flu season year. (He's been there 17 years)
He says he thinks it will not peak until mod November. He also says most cases have been from close family contact.
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And a lot more elbow room.
At least my Packers season ticket number has a good chance of moving up significantly.
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The good news is at this rate we'll have herd immunity in Wisconsin in 2022!
I don't know if the "Wisconsin Herd Immunity" would be a great move for marketing purposes.
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Paul Casey, Emrgency Medicine, Bellin Health, Green Bay, WI said they admit more Covid-19 Pneumonia related patients in Brown County in one day than they do flu patients for an entire flu season year. (He's been there 17 years)
He says he thinks it will not peak until mod November. He also says most cases have been from close family contact.
That's interesting he believes it will peak mid-November. That's usually the beginning of flu season. I expect it to ramp up significantly mid-November, nationwide.
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I don't know if the "Wisconsin Herd Immunity" would be a great move for marketing purposes.
Lmao belongs in Covid humor
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I think there is a lot of thought around the idea that flu season won't be as bad due to an increased push to vaccinate and because the stuff we are doing to prevent Covid from spreading (masking, distancing) will prevent the flu from spreading as well.
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I think there is a lot of thought around the idea that flu season won't be as bad due to an increased push to vaccinate and because the stuff we are doing to prevent Covid from spreading (masking, distancing) will prevent the flu from spreading as well.
Fingers crossed. A bad flu season would be especially bad this year.
I got my shot!
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Agree there is reason for hope that the flu season may be unusually mild.
Still, I don't know how anyone can accurately predict a peak in hospitalizations for Covid-19 pneumonia by mid-November when newly diagnosed cases are still rising steadily in WI, and the positivity rate has been off the chart (33% yesterday and 43% today).
https://projects.jsonline.com/topics/coronavirus/tracking/covid-19-cases-testing-and-deaths-in-wisconsin.html
https://www.wbay.com/2020/10/21/wisconsin-adds-4205-coronavirus-cases-record-48-covid-19-deaths-death-rate-goes-back-up/
We will need to see a peak in new cases a good week or two before the peak in hospitalizations, and the numbers don't seem to indicate WI is nearing the peak. The positivity rate in particular is incredible.
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Record 48 deaths in Wisco today. Praying for the best, but signs are pointing upward.
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Lacrosse, WI
"After a college town's outbreak, deaths at nursing homes mount."
"The bars stayed open. College students got sick. The elderly got infected, and began to die."
The case against herd immunity.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/
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Lacrosse, WI
"After a college town's outbreak, deaths at nursing homes mount."
"The bars stayed open. College students got sick. The elderly got infected, and began to die."
The case against herd immunity.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/
Depressing story. Reflects on the selfishness that permeates this nation
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But they are only seniors!
Forget that many of them might have lived another 10-15-20 years, gotten to enjoy time with their grandchildren and great-grandchildren, actually liked being alive.
They're worth the sacrifice.
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Remember that photo of Trinity, packed with patrons?
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2020/10/22/milwaukee-bar-face-mask-mandate-trinity-three-fined-1-000/3729032001/
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Remember that photo of Trinity, packed with patrons?
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2020/10/22/milwaukee-bar-face-mask-mandate-trinity-three-fined-1-000/3729032001/
Makes sense. I do again think that the general layout of trinity makes it difficult to enforce I mean Milwaukee approved full capacity and expected everyone to disperse evenly around a place like that? They should've said take away the East pub's and the beer garden's capacity then let the remaining two rooms occupants disperse around the entire place.
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per Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:
The Republican co-chairwoman of the Legislature’s budget committee said lawmakers have done enough to fight the surging coronavirus pandemic Thursday, echoing the comments of another GOP legislator this week who said there is nothing more they can do. Sen. Alberta Darling of River Hills contended Democratic Gov. Tony Evers has all the powers he needs to deal with COVID-19, even as she and other Republican lawmakers have gone to court to try to limit his ability to act on his own.
We've flattened the peak (Sen. Johnson) and rounded the corner (trump). Nothing more to see here.
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Remember that photo of Trinity, packed with patrons?
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2020/10/22/milwaukee-bar-face-mask-mandate-trinity-three-fined-1-000/3729032001/
fines are just a cost of doing business.
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fines are just a cost of doing business.
Sad but true.
If they really wanted to get bars to enforce the rules they'd make the penalty a forfeiture of their liquor license.
Strike 1 - warning.
Strike 2 - 'at least you can still sell jalapeño poppers.'
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I was just looking at the WI numbers and noticed a disturbing trend...beyond the basic increases in cases and hospitalizations. While increases earlier this fall were primarily attributed to younger individuals (mostly the 10-19 and 20-29 demographics), the more recent increases are centered on older individuals. A few numbers:
10-19: Level
Sept 15: ~40/100K
Oct 15: ~40/100K
20-29: ~25% increase
Sept 15: ~60/100K
Oct 15: ~75/100K
30-39: ~200% increase
Sept 15: ~20/100K
Oct 15: ~60/100K
40-49: ~200% increase
Sept 15: ~20/100K
Oct 15: ~60/100K
50-59: ~200% increase
Sept 15: ~20/100K
Oct 15: ~60/100K
60-69: ~200% increase
Sept 15: ~20/100K
Oct 15: ~60/100K
70-79: ~125% increase
Sept 15: ~20/100K
Oct 15: ~45/100K
https://projects.jsonline.com/topics/coronavirus/tracking/covid-19-cases-testing-and-deaths-in-wisconsin.html
I don't know the details, but this hints at what many of us feared - that younger (generally lower risk) people might be spreading the virus to older and more vulnerable parents, grandparents and others. I am sure there are additional reasons for the spikes in the 30-80 demographics (like work and bars), but the temporal relationship suggests younger people who got sick in September spread it to older people who are testing positive now.
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per Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:
The Republican co-chairwoman of the Legislature’s budget committee said lawmakers have done enough to fight the surging coronavirus pandemic Thursday, echoing the comments of another GOP legislator this week who said there is nothing more they can do. Sen. Alberta Darling of River Hills contended Democratic Gov. Tony Evers has all the powers he needs to deal with COVID-19, even as she and other Republican lawmakers have gone to court to try to limit his ability to act on his own.
We've flattened the peak (Sen. Johnson) and rounded the corner (trump). Nothing more to see here.
Once a human is out of the womb ... fuggettaboutit!
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fines are just a cost of doing business.
If a fine is less than the profit, it's not a punishment. It's just a tax
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The last five days have been the deadliest of the pandemic in Wisconsin, with 145 deaths from the coronavirus between Monday and Friday.
The death toll now stands at 1,745. The seven-day average for daily deaths is 24; one month ago, it was four.
The quickly rising death toll is a direct result of the rise in cases weeks earlier, state health officials have said.
Because cases have continued to surge since then, hospitalization and death numbers will only get worse in coming weeks.
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The overall fatality rate has dropped since March. But with numbers that high, a surge in fatalities was inevitable. Just a bad flu.
https://news.yahoo.com/covid-19-did-wisconsin-become-192234715.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9zZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tL3NlYXJjaD9wPVdpc2NvbnNpbitjb3ZpZCZmcj15c2V0X2Nocl9zeWNfaHAmZWk9VVRGLTgmZnA9MQ&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAA_LgWO9GMbxhaDVJP3CxSpZx0Ul_Ithgs2bgEhInnGfHRIrmZnM7_QFkfk7VVSd-K-zNofNDCt9j59eF3cHpM5YdtZdGpoUH_xR6vYxgcSkrhacSlW8xoAkBglNPRK3_qXp21c3jjlkIP8WM6Jr6pvjXYJ6Ws-GdD9pQswbtDqV
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Nm
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The last five days have been the deadliest of the pandemic in Wisconsin, with 145 deaths from the coronavirus between Monday and Friday.
The death toll now stands at 1,745. The seven-day average for daily deaths is 24; one month ago, it was four.
The quickly rising death toll is a direct result of the rise in cases weeks earlier, state health officials have said.
Because cases have continued to surge since then, hospitalization and death numbers will only get worse in coming weeks.
The IHME model currently projects that the 1,745 deaths will balloon to 6,272 by February 1, assuming existing mandates are kept in place.
The daily death toll, currently at 24, is expected to peak at 64 on December 15, then gradually decrease. On Christmas Day, 61 Wisconsinites are projected to die.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/wisconsin?view=total-deaths&tab=trend
Staggering.
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The IHME model currently projects that the 1,745 deaths will balloon to 6,272 by February 1, assuming existing mandates are kept in place.
The daily death toll, currently at 24, is expected to peak at 64 on December 15, then gradually decrease. On Christmas Day, 61 Wisconsinites are projected to die.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/wisconsin?view=total-deaths&tab=trend
Staggering.
Let me depress you a bit more. AFTER the election, I expect Rs will convene and override the mask mandate and limit on size of gatherings.
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Let me depress you a bit more. AFTER the election, I expect Rs will convene and override the mask mandate and limit on size of gatherings.
Which would increase projected deaths to well over 12,000. Ugh.
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Which would increase projected deaths to well over 12,000. Ugh.
In a bit of irony. the Pro-Lifers, today, got a court to overturn the limit on gathering size using the argument that they were prevented from gathering to raise money to save baby lives.
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In a bit of irony. the Pro-Lifers, today, got a court to overturn the limit on gathering size using the argument that they were prevented from gathering to raise money to save baby lives fetuses.
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Play whatever semantic games you want. Any time human life is destroyed it is a terrible thing. Whether that is by a disease or by a vacuum and a "doctor". The world is not a better place because of mass destruction. And celebrating it in any way is gruesome and despicable.
Its fun to dehuman groups right. Yeah. Cool. That has lead to good times in human history.
Glad the Wisconsin covid board became a place to regurgitate planned parenthood talking points.
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In a bit of irony. the Pro-Lifers, today, got a court to overturn the limit on gathering size using the argument that they were prevented from gathering to raise money to save baby lives.
I was neighbors with the husband and wife team who led that group. Psychos! Referred to any politician who wasn’t 100%. No exceptions pro-life as a “baby butcher.” But now it’s about “my body my choice.”
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Play whatever semantic games you want. Any time human life is destroyed it is a terrible thing. Whether that is by a disease or by a vacuum and a "doctor". The world is not a better place because of mass destruction. And celebrating it in any way is gruesome and despicable.
Its fun to dehuman groups right. Yeah. Cool. That has lead to good times in human history.
Glad the Wisconsin covid board became a place to regurgitate planned parenthood talking points.
Bitches about Covid board.
Doesn’t talk about Covid.
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Play whatever semantic games you want. Any time human life is destroyed it is a terrible thing. Whether that is by a disease or by a vacuum and a "doctor". The world is not a better place because of mass destruction. And celebrating it in any way is gruesome and despicable.
Its fun to dehuman groups right. Yeah. Cool. That has lead to good times in human history.
Glad the Wisconsin covid board became a place to regurgitate planned parenthood talking points.
Hy false equivalency, Batman.
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Any time human life is destroyed it is a terrible thing.
If you truly believe this, then you oppose the move by the pro-life group to get the gathering size restrictions overturned...right?
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If you truly believe this, then you oppose the move by the pro-life group to get the gathering size restrictions overturned...right?
Large gatherings are nothing but stupid right now. There can be mitigating factors, like mask, but I certainly wouldn't go to anything like that.
So yeah. I do.
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Glad the Wisconsin covid board became a place to regurgitate planned parenthood anti-choice talking points.
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Worst governor Evers, aina?
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174 deaths since this time last week in Wisconsin. I know that is just a number to look at, and is easily forgotten and not easily visualized. Think of the football games you're probably going to watch today.
Now put a dead body on each hash mark all way down the field... and realize you can go from endzone to endzone almost twice with dead people.
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Worst governor Evers, aina?
Worst legislature in Wisconsin history, too, aina?
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Yep. We dont have a plan. But we have to stop Evers.
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Worst legislature in Wisconsin history, too, aina?
The new “welfare kings and Queens”?
They are the least active full time legislature in the country as they barely even meet anymore. The other full time state legislatures in the country have met an average of 18 times more than Wisconsin since the start of Covid.
Despite the deadly pandemic, they couldn’t even be bothered to meet in April, May, June, July, August, September, or October.
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The new “welfare kings and Queens”?
They are the least active full time legislature in the country as they barely even meet anymore. The other full time state legislatures in the country have met an average of 18 times more than Wisconsin since the start of Covid.
Despite the deadly pandemic, they couldn’t even be bothered to meet in April, May, June, July, August, September, or October.
Living in Wisconsin is embarrassing nowadays, aina?
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The new “welfare kings and Queens”?
They are the least active full time legislature in the country as they barely even meet anymore. The other full time state legislatures in the country have met an average of 18 times more than Wisconsin since the start of Covid.
Despite the deadly pandemic, they couldn’t even be bothered to meet in April, May, June, July, August, September, or October.
Whoa - seriously? I knew they were messed up, but it’s criminally negligent for a legislature to take seven months off during a pandemic.
Explains a lot.
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174 deaths since this time last week in Wisconsin. I know that is just a number to look at, and is easily forgotten and not easily visualized. Think of the football games you're probably going to watch today.
Now put a dead body on each hash mark all way down the field... and realize you can go from endzone to endzone almost twice with dead people.
one of my wife's MU roommates was just told she's going to be leaving her family to go to Northern WI because there is a shortage of health care workers there to deal with COvID. She's a PT. That's how desperate they are in WI and meanwhile, the Tavern League continues to tell bars to stay open and Trump has his superspreader events, a giant middle finger to health care workers.
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one of my wife's MU roommates was just told she's going to be leaving her family to go to Northern WI because there is a shortage of health care workers there to deal with COvID. She's a PT. That's how desperate they are in WI and meanwhile, the Tavern League continues to tell bars to stay open and Trump has his superspreader events, a giant middle finger to health care workers.
Rural Wisconsin had a severe shortage of health care workers long before covid.
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As written elsewhere, COVID is laying bare all of the weaknesses in America. In this case, health care workers in rural Wisconsin.
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Rural Wisconsin had a severe shortage of health care workers long before covid.
And this isn't helping.
I'm a little surprised the Tavern League isn't thinking more long term. If this gets bad enough, people are going to self select out of the bar experience. Why not use your incredible lobbying power to get aid packages for bars & restaurants? I know the million dollar question is where does the money come from, but it seems like when people want the money, the money is always found. There has to be a better solution than simply, lets pack the bar. Heck put a 5% tax on alcohol bought in grocery stores and have that bailout bars. Something should be done to protect these small business owners and they shouldn't have to choose between their livelihood and safety.
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Rural Wisconsin had a severe shortage of health care workers long before covid.
ok, I'll let her know as she leaves her husband and kids for an indefinite period of time. That makes it all ok.
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And this isn't helping.
I'm a little surprised the Tavern League isn't thinking more long term. If this gets bad enough, people are going to self select out of the bar experience. Why not use your incredible lobbying power to get aid packages for bars & restaurants? I know the million dollar question is where does the money come from, but it seems like when people want the money, the money is always found. There has to be a better solution than simply, lets pack the bar. Heck put a 5% tax on alcohol bought in grocery stores and have that bailout bars. Something should be done to protect these small business owners and they shouldn't have to choose between their livelihood and safety.
We as Americans generally don't look past our nose. Short-sighted goals/profits is all that matters in the mighty capitalist USA.
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ok, I'll let her know as she leaves her husband and kids for an indefinite period of time. That makes it all ok.
That's not my point. Rural health care in WI is a huge problem. Covid is making it worse. But the shortages have been bad for years.
I didn't say anything about your friend or her choice to help out.
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That's not my point. Rural health care in WI is a huge problem. Covid is making it worse. But the shortages have been bad for years.
I didn't say anything about your friend or her choice to help out.
Chiming in, I didn't think you were taking a shot. Just my $0.02
That's not just a WI problem. Rural healthcare is bad nationwide.
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Chiming in, I didn't think you were taking a shot. Just my $0.02
That's not just a WI problem. Rural healthcare is bad nationwide.
Agreed.
This particular problem wasn't a headline in the first couple of waves, because the surges occurred (mostly) in more populated places like Seattle, the NYC metro, Houston, Miami, etc. Now, less populated areas are seeing surges - with the Dakotas, Iowa, and Northern WI in the vanguard - and rural healthcare shortages are compounding an already horrible pandemic.
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Double post
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It is not profitable. Guy in my office space founded a startup to create networks of rural health care throughout the state. It is not an easy task. Lots of specialty clinicians needed like for diabetes, agricultural borne maladies, and other ailments common away from metropolitan areas.
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If numbers matter to anyone here anymore...WI has now surpassed 200,000 total cases, only the 12th state to get there. All the states above them have larger populations, most considerably larger.
In cases per capita, WI has hit the top 10, where it sits in bleak company with Iowa, the Dakotas, and most of the sunbelt.
The pandemic sucks everywhere, but WI is distinguishing itself in rather unfortunate ways.
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That's not my point. Rural health care in WI is a huge problem. Covid is making it worse. But the shortages have been bad for years.
I didn't say anything about your friend or her choice to help out.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying and I apologize for an overreaction.
To clarify, she's not volunteering to go, she's being told to. She's going to a place where a majority of the citizens support the candidate who says about the numbers of deaths "it is what it is.'
You make an excellent point about rural health care. When my dad finished his residency over 40 years ago he was offered federal incentives in the form of loan forgiveness to relocate to a small rural town and join a newly established practice of three other GP's taking advantage of the same program. I don't know if there are similar programs in existence today but it would likely help alleviate the shortages for care were seeing in rural areas. Of course, it doesn't help in terms of facilities but it's a start.
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If numbers matter to anyone here anymore...WI has now surpassed 200,000 total cases, only the 12th state to get there. All the states above them have larger populations, most considerably larger.
In cases per capita, WI has hit the top 10, where it sits in bleak company with Iowa, the Dakotas, and most of the sunbelt.
The pandemic sucks everywhere, but WI is distinguishing itself in rather unfortunate ways.
Our drinking culture bears a lot of the blame. I have no numbers or facts to back that. Just a humble opinion
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If numbers matter to anyone here anymore...WI has now surpassed 200,000 total cases, only the 12th state to get there. All the states above them have larger populations, most considerably larger.
In cases per capita, WI has hit the top 10, where it sits in bleak company with Iowa, the Dakotas, and most of the sunbelt.
The pandemic sucks everywhere, but WI is distinguishing itself in rather unfortunate ways.
Surprised you left out the category of deaths per million being that we remain one of the best at protecting the most vulnerable and our health system seems to be one of the best in the country and managing the ones who get hit the hardest.
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Our drinking culture bears a lot of the blame. I have no numbers or facts to back that. Just a humble opinion
Lots of places have drinking cultures, but the blame lies squarely on the Legislature and partisan judiciary that has acquiesced to the Tavern League to suspend any indoor capacity limits and spread the word that COVID isn't as bad at it is. One can have a drinking culture but if there's no place to go then there wouldn't be the ability to spread.
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Lots of places have drinking cultures, but the blame lies squarely on the Legislature and partisan judiciary that has acquiesced to the Tavern League to suspend any indoor capacity limits and spread the word that COVID isn't as bad at it is. One can have a drinking culture but if there's no place to go then there wouldn't be the ability to spread.
It’s a combination of it all, for sure.
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Surprised you left out the category of deaths per million being that we remain one of the best at protecting the most vulnerable and our health system seems to be one of the best in the country and managing the ones who get hit the hardest.
You are not surprised, because I have explained this to you before. Wisconsin's death rate is (currently) lower because its first big peak came later than the peaks in many other places. If you look at the death rates, you can easily separate them based on when the peak hit.
That said, Wisconsin's death rate is projected to increase dramatically over the coming months.
But you knew all that.
Lecturing aside, I will agree with you on one thing: the doctors and other healthcare providers in Wisconsin are excellent. I count many close friends and family members among them, and agree that we owe our frontline healthcare workers a huge debt of gratitude for their work during this pandemic. 👍
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Effort to recall Evers has failed.
No surprise.
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Our drinking culture bears a lot of the blame. I have no numbers or facts to back that. Just a humble opinion
Dane Co data says otherwise, at least for the last month:
https://www.publichealthmdc.com/blog/understanding-clusters (https://www.publichealthmdc.com/blog/understanding-clusters)
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Got it. Thanks for clarifying and I apologize for an overreaction.
To clarify, she's not volunteering to go, she's being told to. She's going to a place where a majority of the citizens support the candidate who says about the numbers of deaths "it is what it is.'
You make an excellent point about rural health care. When my dad finished his residency over 40 years ago he was offered federal incentives in the form of loan forgiveness to relocate to a small rural town and join a newly established practice of three other GP's taking advantage of the same program. I don't know if there are similar programs in existence today but it would likely help alleviate the shortages for care were seeing in rural areas. Of course, it doesn't help in terms of facilities but it's a start.
On the flip side, advances in tele-medicine or zoom-medicine will help out with a lot of health issues in rural areas. Not a substitute for a primary care doc, a dentist, or any other hands on care. But any visits that can be done not face to face will be an improvement.
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On the flip side, advances in tele-medicine or zoom-medicine will help out with a lot of health issues in rural areas. Not a substitute for a primary care doc, a dentist, or any other hands on care. But any visits that can be done not face to face will be an improvement.
Yep. Between the advances in communication and diagnostic technology that can be used by laypeople, rural areas will become much better served as time goes by. We will still need more rural care providers, but the technology will help.
Covid is also forcing insurance companies to reassess what they will pay for via telemedicine, so hopefully reimbursement will keep up with the provision of care.
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You are not surprised, because I have explained this to you before. Wisconsin's death rate is (currently) lower because its first big peak came later than the peaks in many other places. If you look at the death rates, you can easily separate them based on when the peak hit.
That said, Wisconsin's death rate is projected to increase dramatically over the coming months.
But you knew all that.
Lecturing aside, I will agree with you on one thing: the doctors and other healthcare providers in Wisconsin are excellent. I count many close friends and family members among them, and agree that we owe our frontline healthcare workers a huge debt of gratitude for their work during this pandemic. 👍
You keep saying that but by beginning of April we had 3x’s the number of infections compared to Minnesota so not sure what you consider “early” but our case counts were higher then Minnesota’s from day 1. Which isn’t something to necessarily brag about but your argument that Minnesota got hit earlier then Wisconsin is inaccurate. But please by all means continue with the lecture.
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I might have an unpopular opinion.
If you have a behavior or habit that contributes to you getting a disease/illness/ailment, your insurance shouldn't cover your treatment or should cover significantly less than the rest of the insured pool.
For example - smokers, poor eating habits, drug users, big-time drinkers, etc.
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I might have an unpopular opinion.
If you have a behavior or habit that contributes to you getting a disease/illness/ailment, your insurance shouldn't cover your treatment or should cover significantly less than the rest of the insured pool.
For example - smokers, poor eating habits, drug users, big-time drinkers, etc.
Everyone has bad habits. Everyone gets sick from something. While for many people you can connect one with the other, you can't with many others.
It's completely unworkable.
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Everyone has bad habits. Everyone gets sick from something. While for many people you can connect one with the other, you can't with many others.
It's completely unworkable.
I know all of this.
And I hate that I still have the opinion.
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I might have an unpopular opinion.
If you have a behavior or habit that contributes to you getting a disease/illness/ailment, your insurance shouldn't cover your treatment or should cover significantly less than the rest of the insured pool.
For example - smokers, poor eating habits, drug users, big-time drinkers, etc.
You play football and have injuries from that or any other sport, forget it not covered. You enjoy a little vitamin d but get skin cancer, that’s on you buddy! That’s one of the silliest ideas I’ve ever heard here on a board with a lot of silly ideas.
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You keep saying that but by beginning of April we had 3x’s the number of infections compared to Minnesota so not sure what you consider “early” but our case counts were higher then Minnesota’s from day 1. Which isn’t something to necessarily brag about but your argument that Minnesota got hit earlier then Wisconsin is inaccurate. But please by all means continue with the lecture.
My posts today said nothing about Minnesota. But if you want to revisit that argument, fine. You said Wisconsin’s “case counts were higher than Minnesota’s from day 1.” Here are some actual numbers:
On June 1, Minnesota had 27,076 confirmed cases. Wisconsin had 18,543 (31% FEWER than MN).
On July 1, Minnesota had 38,945 confirmed cases. Wisconsin had 29,199 (25% FEWER than MN).
As of today, Minnesota has 135,372 confirmed cases, Wisconsin has 201,049 (49% MORE than MN).
Want to reconsider your comment that Wisconsin’s cases were higher from day one?
Facts matter.
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I might have an unpopular opinion.
If you have a behavior or habit that contributes to you getting a disease/illness/ailment, your insurance shouldn't cover your treatment or should cover significantly less than the rest of the insured pool.
For example - smokers, poor eating habits, drug users, big-time drinkers, etc.
Who determines what's a bad habit?
Is not exercising at least 30 minutes a day a bad habit?
Where do you draw the line between healthy and unhealthy eating? Once scoop of ice cream is hunky dore, two makes you a glutton?
Where does a social drinker end and a big-time drinker begin?
What if you're a drug addict because your doctor pumped you full of OxyContin after Purdue insisted it wasn't habit-forming?
When is being overweight the result of bad decisions vs bad genes?
I just don't see any way this just wouldn't lead to insurance companies to arbitrarily deny coverage. Which they do enough already. This would just give them more latitude.
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I might have an unpopular opinion.
If you have a behavior or habit that contributes to you getting a disease/illness/ailment, your insurance shouldn't cover your treatment or should cover significantly less than the rest of the insured pool.
For example - smokers, poor eating habits, drug users, big-time drinkers, etc.
Years ago, I used to feel this way as well. But time has taught me that not all of our actions are as voluntary or easy to change as we would like to think. Unconscious memories, thoughts and feelings are powerful.
Even if we get past the humanistic/psychological argument, I just don’t see how this could be applied. I don’t smoke, almost never drink, exercise every single day and maintain a healthy weight. I never text and drive. Still, I probably don’t wear sunscreen as often as I should. And I often get impatient and drive faster than I should. Does that mean that I should pay more for my health insurance because I might get skin cancer? Or into a car accident? Do I get offsetting discounts for not smoking, rarely drinking, eating a healthy diet and maintaining a healthy weight? Do I have to pay more next year if I gain 15 pounds?
Insurance companies already make money too big of a factor in the healthcare system. Opening up this Pandora’s box would give them opportunities to arbitrarily raise policies in ways that most could never possibly untangle.
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My posts today said nothing about Minnesota. But if you want to revisit that argument, fine. You said Wisconsin’s “case counts were higher than Minnesota’s from day 1.” Here are some actual numbers:
On June 1, Minnesota had 27,076 confirmed cases. Wisconsin had 18,543 (31% FEWER than MN).
On July 1, Minnesota had 38,945 confirmed cases. Wisconsin had 29,199 (25% FEWER than MN).
As of today, Minnesota has 135,372 confirmed cases, Wisconsin has 201,049 (49% MORE than MN).
Want to reconsider your comment that Wisconsin’s cases were higher from day one?
Facts matter.
From day 1 was wrong, should have went through the 8 months worth of comparative data more closely. The reason I compared it to Minnesota was because you made a comment on how you’ve already explained this to me (only other time I discussed it with you was in reference to Wisconsin & Minnesota) and you argued then you got hit harder early which is why you have so many more deaths then Wisco does. Which as the data shows just doesn’t hold up, unless the summer months are considered early I guess.
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Like I said, unpopular.
And, nearly impossible to judge/enforce.
Though I assume anyone who doesn't like my opinion is also against car insurance companies raising rates for drivers who get in frequent accidents?
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You play football and have injuries from that or any other sport, forget it not covered. You enjoy a little vitamin d but get skin cancer, that’s on you buddy! That’s one of the silliest ideas I’ve ever heard here on a board with a lot of silly ideas.
So, those aren't bad habits in themselves.
But, for example, don't put on sunscreen when you're enjoying your vitamin D? That would be a risk increasing behavior
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From day 1 was wrong, should have went through the 8 months worth of comparative data more closely. The reason I compared it to Minnesota was because you made a comment on how you’ve already explained this to me (only other time I discussed it with you was in reference to Wisconsin & Minnesota) and you argued then you got hit harder early which is why you have so many more deaths then Wisco does. Which as the data shows just doesn’t hold up, unless the summer months are considered early I guess.
The June 1 numbers count cases that were contracted in April and May (through May 31). I don’t think those qualify as “summer months,“ especially here in Minnesota.
Since treatment continues to get better every single day, a 31% higher rate by June is significant when compared to the cases that started to spike in Wisconsin in September and October.
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Years ago, I used to feel this way as well. But time has taught me that not all of our actions are as voluntary or easy to change as we would like to think. Unconscious memories, thoughts and feelings are powerful.
Even if we get past the humanistic/psychological argument, I just don’t see how this could be applied. I don’t smoke, almost never drink, exercise every single day and maintain a healthy weight. I never text and drive. Still, I probably don’t wear sunscreen as often as I should. And I often get impatient and drive faster than I should. Does that mean that I should pay more for my health insurance because I might get skin cancer? Or into a car accident? Do I get offsetting discounts for not smoking, rarely drinking, eating a healthy diet and maintaining a healthy weight? Do I have to pay more next year if I gain 15 pounds?
Insurance companies already make money too big of a factor in the healthcare system. Opening up this Pandora’s box would give them opportunities to arbitrarily raise policies in ways that most could never possibly untangle.
If you engage in behavior that demonstrably increases your risk toward problems, then yes, should increase costs or decrease coverage.
Opposite occurs if you engage in behaviors that are healthy/decrease risk
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If you engage in behavior that demonstrably increases your risk toward problems, then yes, should increase costs or decrease coverage.
Opposite occurs if you engage in behaviors that are healthy/decrease risk
Is someone going to track my sunscreen use? Are they going to put a GPS unit in my car to track my speed for purposes of health insurance premiums? How do I document my daily exercise? Is my handwritten log of biking mileage sufficient to demonstrate daily exercise? And do I get a bigger discount than someone who exercises every other day? Or who bikes daily, but puts in far less mileage?
Like I said, even if you can get past the humanistic/psychological issues, I just don’t see it being even remotely feasible.
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Like I said, unpopular.
And, nearly impossible to judge/enforce.
Though I assume anyone who doesn't like my opinion is also against car insurance companies raising rates for drivers who get in frequent accidents?
No, getting in frequent accidents can be actuarially proven that you are a bad driver.
Getting lung cancer doesnt prove that you are a smoker.
It's not unpopular, it's flat out idiotic. I thought you were a big government run health care guy. Dont let the other libs on here find out, they'll kick you out of the biscuit club.
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The June 1 numbers count cases that were contracted in April and May (through May 31). I don’t think those qualify as “summer months,“ especially here in Minnesota.
Since treatment continues to get better every single day, a 31% higher rate by June is significant when compared to the cases that started to spike in Wisconsin in September and October.
Ok, you are obviously incapable of admitting when you’re wrong, that’s fine.
Question I have for you. Which was greater as of October 26th. Your scoop posts or global Covid deaths?
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Ok, you are obviously incapable of admitting when you’re wrong, that’s fine.
Question I have for you. Which was greater as of October 26th. Your scoop posts or global Covid deaths?
Why would I admit I’m wrong when I have proven that Minnesota’s case count was 31% higher than Wisconsin’s by the beginning of June?
I know you are regretting bringing Minnesota back into this discussion, but facts matter.
Have a nice evening, Jamie.
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Is someone going to track my sunscreen use? Are they going to put a GPS unit in my car to track my speed for purposes of health insurance premiums? How do I document my daily exercise? Is my handwritten log of biking mileage sufficient to demonstrate daily exercise? And do I get a bigger discount than someone who exercises every other day? Or who bikes daily, but puts in far less mileage?
Like I said, even if you can get past the humanistic/psychological issues, I just don’t see it being even remotely feasible.
It's not feasible.
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No, getting in frequent accidents can be actuarially proven that you are a bad driver.
Getting lung cancer doesnt prove that you are a smoker.
It's not unpopular, it's flat out idiotic. I thought you were a big government run health care guy. Dont let the other libs on here find out, they'll kick you out of the biscuit club.
Correct on the second sentence. But reverse the logic. Smoking does increase your risk for lung cancer (among other ailments)
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Why would I admit I’m wrong when I have proven that Minnesota’s case count was 31% higher than Wisconsin’s by the beginning of June?
I know you are regretting bringing Minnesota back into this discussion, but facts matter.
Have a nice evening, Jamie.
You as well Gooo.
Can someone seriously explain this Jamie thing though? Is that like being called a Karen or something, I’ve literally never heard of someone calling anyone a Jamie.
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Why would I admit I’m wrong when I have proven that Minnesota’s case count was 31% higher than Wisconsin’s by the beginning of June?
I know you are regretting bringing Minnesota back into this discussion, but facts matter.
Have a nice evening, Jamie.
Also aren’t you the poster that chased off our one legitimate insider for recruiting with Big Daddy awhile back?
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So many possible jokes, but comparing Jamie to a Karen? Close enough.
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Can someone seriously explain this Jamie thing though? Is that like being called a Karen or something, I’ve literally never heard of someone calling anyone a Jamie.
Send a pm to WarriorDad. He might be able to seriously explain it to you.
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You as well Gooo.
Can someone seriously explain this Jamie thing though? Is that like being called a Karen or something, I’ve literally never heard of someone calling anyone a Jamie.
You know the poster who chased off Big Daddy, but not the Jamie reference? What’s a Chicos?
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You know the poster who chased off Big Daddy, but not the Jamie reference? What’s a Chicos?
Ya prior to all this Covid bickering I usually only paid attention to stuff that interested me (primarily recruiting news) on the hoops board. So when big daddy got chased away it was hard to forget.
It was pretty easy to ignore the rest of the noise over there.
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Also aren’t you the poster that chased off our one legitimate insider for recruiting with Big Daddy awhile back?
Wtf are you talking about?
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Ya prior to all this Covid bickering I usually only paid attention to stuff that interested me (primarily recruiting news) on the hoops board. So when big daddy got chased away it was hard to forget.
It was pretty easy to ignore the rest of the noise over there.
Lol.
So disingenuous.
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Wtf are you talking about?
You know exactly what I’m talking about.
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You know exactly what I’m talking about.
I don’t. Please explain. It’s obviously impossible for me to prove a negative, so I ask that you provide evidence of your claim. A post? Anything?
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So many possible jokes, but comparing Jamie to a Karen? Close enough.
Hah. Agreed, from henceforth being called a Jamie on 'scoop is equivalent to being called a Karen IRL.
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Hoopaloop 2 was proven wrong. Yet like the original hoopy refused to acknowledge facts. Classic.
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I don’t. Please explain. It’s obviously impossible for me to prove a negative, so I ask that you provide evidence of your claim. A post? Anything?
It’s one of his tactics, Goo.
A couple years ago, he accused me of calling his wife a liar. Obviously, he was making it up and couldn’t provide any post. That’s why I have nothing to do with him anymore. He simply comes here to argue. He’s not worth our time.
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You know exactly what I’m talking about.
On so many levels, this is laughable. Trust me, BD doesn’t get chased anywhere.
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I might have an unpopular opinion.
If you have a behavior or habit that contributes to you getting a disease/illness/ailment, your insurance shouldn't cover your treatment or should cover significantly less than the rest of the insured pool.
For example - smokers, poor eating habits, drug users, big-time drinkers, etc.
My company does this. We're a self funded health insurance since our company is over 500 people (almost all companies over 500 people are self funded). The only time actual health insurance comes into play is for major medical. Anyway, every year if you're a non smoker you get a discounted rate and you have access to the best plan. If you're healthy, get access to the best plan. If you're unhealthy, you can go through coaching to get access to the best plan. There are other incentives to better lifestyle choices that also get you funds towards your coverage.
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Got it. Thanks for clarifying and I apologize for an overreaction.
To clarify, she's not volunteering to go, she's being told to. She's going to a place where a majority of the citizens support the candidate who says about the numbers of deaths "it is what it is.'
You make an excellent point about rural health care. When my dad finished his residency over 40 years ago he was offered federal incentives in the form of loan forgiveness to relocate to a small rural town and join a newly established practice of three other GP's taking advantage of the same program. I don't know if there are similar programs in existence today but it would likely help alleviate the shortages for care were seeing in rural areas. Of course, it doesn't help in terms of facilities but it's a start.
They do still exist. A pharmacist friend of mine just got from 2.5 years in Alaska and now she has zero loan debt plus got paid a pretty penny to be stationed in some remote village.
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Indeed, I always think of auto insurance as a comparative. Caught speeding? DUI? Accident your fault? Your insurance costs go up as a future indicator of risky driving.
Not sure why health insurance is different. (Yes, it's understood some health issues are genetic. Fully understand some mechanism needs to protect that class from preposterous insurance costs.)
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They do still exist. A pharmacist friend of mine just got from 2.5 years in Alaska and now she has zero loan debt plus got paid a pretty penny to be stationed in some remote village.
I always liked the show "Northern Exposure" back in the day.
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They do still exist. A pharmacist friend of mine just got from 2.5 years in Alaska and now she has zero loan debt plus got paid a pretty penny to be stationed in some remote village.
Yep. There are plenty of opportunities for healthcare workers to relocate to rural locations. The issue is that it comes at a price, where somebody subsidizes the relocation through above-market salaries, loan forgiveness or other perks.
It's a great (and necessary) system, but the high cost limits how many workers can be relocated. In the end, rural areas still struggle for access to quality care.
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I always liked the show "Northern Exposure" back in the day.
Ditto. Funny, but in an offbeat way.
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Indeed, I always think of auto insurance as a comparative. Caught speeding? DUI? Accident your fault? Your insurance costs go up as a future indicator of risky driving.
Not sure why health insurance is different. (Yes, it's understood some health issues are genetic. Fully understand some mechanism needs to protect that class from preposterous insurance costs.)
I think part of the problem is how common claims are. Whereas auto insurance is insuring against specific types of events that are, in the grand scheme, relatively rare, health insurance is trying to insure against inevitabilities for just about all of their policyholders.
If the only health policies out there were catastrophic, high deductible type plans, then there would be a lot of similarities between auto and health insurance. But saying a 65 year old needs health insurance is like if you made a claim against your auto insurance every time you needed to fill your car with gas or get an oil change. Its not insurance in the typical sense because it isn't insuring against a (again, relatively) narrow swath of high cost events. Its basically trying to subsidize inevitabilities across its entire client-base, at a profit.
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My company does this. We're a self funded health insurance since our company is over 500 people (almost all companies over 500 people are self funded). The only time actual health insurance comes into play is for major medical. Anyway, every year if you're a non smoker you get a discounted rate and you have access to the best plan. If you're healthy, get access to the best plan. If you're unhealthy, you can go through coaching to get access to the best plan. There are other incentives to better lifestyle choices that also get you funds towards your coverage.
Very similar.
We don't have any premiums. If you are a smoker, you have premiums from day one. If you are 'obese', you are given a health coach. If you have progress towards a better weight, you don't have any premiums. If you trend the other way, you have premiums. Not sure what this all applies to other conditions, just the two I've heard of.
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Who determines what's a bad habit?
Is not exercising at least 30 minutes a day a bad habit?
Where do you draw the line between healthy and unhealthy eating? Once scoop of ice cream is hunky dore, two makes you a glutton?
Where does a social drinker end and a big-time drinker begin?
What if you're a drug addict because your doctor pumped you full of OxyContin after Purdue insisted it wasn't habit-forming?
When is being overweight the result of bad decisions vs bad genes?
I just don't see any way this just wouldn't lead to insurance companies to arbitrarily deny coverage. Which they do enough already. This would just give them more latitude.
smoking? yes.
obesity? yes (provided it is not caused by diseases such as hypothyroidism, insulin resistance, polycystic ovary syndrome, and Cushing's syndrome).
the others you mention are too subjective (e.g. drinking).
Insurance companies should also provide incentives for exercise. One plan I was on paid 75% of my gym membership was documentation of certain attendance during each month (I think it was 15 days a month).
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Today: 5,262 new cases and 64 deaths. Both blew way past WI's previous highs. Ugh...
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Today: 5,262 new cases and 64 deaths. Both blew way past WI's previous highs. Ugh...
I think that means we’re winning again.
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Badgers could lose Saturday due to COVID and quarterbacks. And who knows, that one loss could keep them out of a playoff. Now THAT would be irony. But would it wake any Cheeseheads up?
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Badgers could lose Saturday due to COVID and quarterbacks. And who knows, that one loss could keep them out of a playoff. Now THAT would be irony. But would it wake any Cheeseheads up?
No. They'd just get mad at the libs at UW that insist on testing at all.
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No. They'd just get mad at the libs at UW that insist on testing at all.
I'd bet anything there are fans who are blaming Mertz's 21-day absence on testing, not the virus itself....
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From NY Mag/Intelligencer columnist Jonathan Chait:
Badgers Football COVID Outbreak Might Doom Trump in Wisconsin
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/10/wisconsin-badger-football-coronavirus-outbreak-trump-polls-matter-biden.html
If you are a Wisconsin football fan, your past week has been an emotional roller coaster. Friday night, the Badgers crushed Illinois in their season opener, while their highly touted freshman quarterback, Graham Mertz, completed a mind-boggling 20 of his 21 passing attempts. From the heights of delirium came a series of crushing blows: Mertz, his top backup, and head coach all tested positive for COVID-19 and then the team canceled its next game, throwing the season into doubt.
Does it matter to the presidential election? Both candidates seem to think it does. When the Big Ten initially canceled its fall season, Joe Biden ran ads displaying empty stadiums as a symbol of the administration’s failure to contain the pandemic.
The league eventually decided that once it obtained rapid-result point-of-care testing, it could resume play. After bitterly complaining in public about Biden’s ads, Trump absurdly claimed credit for the reversal.
Lots of Americans like football. Wisconsin is a football state. News about football breaks through to people who don’t follow political news. And Donald Trump is closing out the election complaining that “COVID, COVID, COVID” is a media hoax just like Russia, Russia, Russia.
Wisconsin is suffering one of the most severe coronavirus outbreaks anywhere in the country, and Trump is signaling very publicly that he doesn’t plan to do anything about it until a vaccine arrives. And Wisconsin happens to be an extremely important swing state.
So, yes, canceling the football game the weekend before the election probably matters.
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I really doubt that a cancellation of a football game is going to change anyone's minds at this late date. At least not enough people to matter. 99.6% have either voted or have their vote set.
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I really doubt that a cancellation of a football game is going to change anyone's minds at this late date. At least not enough people to matter. 99.6% have either voted or have their vote set.
I agree. I just thought it was an interesting Wisconsin-related take on COVID-19, UW-Madison, the election and the person who repeatedly proclaimed, "I saved Big Ten football!"
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I'd bet anything there are fans who are blaming Mertz's 21-day absence on testing, not the virus itself....
Can't we just refuse testing to people who come into hospitals? Why just make cases go away? Let's get rid of deaths too.
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Can't we just refuse testing to people who come into hospitals? Why just make cases go away? Let's get rid of deaths too.
You joke, but a worst case scenario route may be rationing healthcare. Fatties and oldies? Go into the corner and die.
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Remember Sarah Palin trying to scare everybody with the idea of death panels?
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Remember Sarah Palin trying to scare everybody with the idea of death panels?
Remember when she was on the ridiculous side of the Republican Party as opposed to just another one?
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I really doubt that a cancellation of a football game is going to change anyone's minds at this late date. At least not enough people to matter. 99.6% have either voted or have their vote set.
Agree. And even if it does change minds, I could actually see it cutting both ways.
Some people might (finally) see it as proof that we aren't really 'rounding the turn' and vote for Biden...while others could see it as 'those effing liberals taking these cancellations one step too far' and vote for Trump. Non-issue, IMO.
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The city of Racine announced Tuesday it would begin "proactively" enforcing its health orders and mask mandates with the help of the Racine Police Department. The city had relied on responding to complaints submitted by residents to the health department.
The penalties for violating the mask mandate are:
$25 for the first conviction for an individual
$50 for the second conviction as an individual
$100 for the third conviction as an individual
Between $50 to $500 for a business or organization and/or revocation of a business license
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Wisconsin broke 5,000 cases for the first time today, with a positivity rate of over 27%.
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Wisconsin broke 5,000 cases for the first time today, with a positivity rate of over 27%.
Yeesh, WI is going to pass Illinois and we have tons more people.
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Well, at least everyone is staying positive.
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Yeesh, WI is going to pass Illinois and we have tons more people.
We have bigger brains. We are able to identify a hoax when we see one.
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Well, at least everyone is staying positive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKdcjJoXeEY
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Well, at least everyone is staying positive.
Sometimes ya gotta laugh so you don't cry.
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Wisconsin broke 5,000 cases for the first time today, with a positivity rate of over 27%.
Bzzt. False. We broke 5k three days ago too.
Also .. we're just a hair under 20k for 4 days. Think an entire Bradley Center's worth.
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Bzzt. False. We broke 5k three days ago too.
Also .. we're just a hair under 20k for 4 days. Think an entire Bradley Center's worth.
My bad. Getting hard to keep pace.
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Well, at 1% mortality, that is 200 more deaths in the next few weeks.
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Well, at 1% mortality, that is 200 more deaths in the next few weeks.
Doesn't matter. They all will have deserved it. If they even die at all. It's just idiot Fauci, pathetic Birx and the libs faking deaths, you know.
Vice President Hannity says actually only 1 American has died, and he was a 137-year-old guy with brain freeze, a broken heart and the boogie-woogie flu.
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Well, at 1% mortality, that is 200 more deaths in the next few weeks.
According to Homer it’s no big deal, as it’s only old people.
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Doesn't matter. They all will have deserved it. If they even die at all. It's just idiot Fauci, pathetic Birx and the libs faking deaths, you know.
Vice President Hannity says actually only 1 American has died, and he was a 137-year-old guy with brain freeze, a broken heart and the boogie-woogie flu.
In the future, are we allowed to laugh in the face of republicans when they tell us they are pro-life?
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In the future, are we allowed to laugh in the face of republicans when they tell us they are pro-life?
They're anti-choice.
Which is ironic because that side of aisle tries to fight against so much under the guise of freedom of choice.
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WI continues to 'round the turn' with another 5,278 confirmed cases and 59 deaths.
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WI continues to 'round the turn' with another 5,278 confirmed cases and 59 deaths.
This morning there was a funeral possession of over 200 cars going into the cemetery two blocks from my house.
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In the future, are we allowed to laugh in the face of republicans when they tell us they are pro-life?
They are more like for forced birth.
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Deer hunting spread looming, bringing it home for Thanksgiving gatherings then, hold on to your butts.
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Deer hunting spread looming, bringing it home for Thanksgiving gatherings then, hold on to your butts.
Deer hunting
Thanksgiving
Christmas
New Year’s
The next couple months will be awful.
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Deer hunting
Thanksgiving
Christmas
New Year’s
The next couple months will be awful.
Ehh the only two that are concerning are deer hunting and new years. For a majority of Wisconsin the people they will see are already in the "personal bubbles"
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Ehh the only two that are concerning are deer hunting and new years. For a majority of Wisconsin the people they will see are already in the "personal bubbles"
Oh I doubt that.
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Oh I doubt that.
I was in another golf outing in Waukesha County yesterday where masks were a myth. We had an hour delay due to frost and 30-40 dudes were in the bar and seating area, none of them in masks. I skipped the post round reception again because of the same dynamic. I wore a mask in and out using the restroom and getting a drink and felt like an outsider.
The restaurant I have breakfast at alternates between distanced seating and what they had today, cram as many people in as possible. This was in West Allis. This thing isn’t going to get better anytime soon in this state. For the record, I made my order to go as I sat alone in my mask
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WI continues to 'round the turn' with another 5,278 confirmed cases and 59 deaths.
We've rounded the turn so much, we've arrived back at the beginning of the race track.
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We've rounded the turn so much, we've arrived back at the beginning of the race track.
Herd Immunity here we come!
Man, we've got a long way to go. 5.8m people in WI. 325k positive cases. let's round that up to 1m for people not tested/asymptomatic. Let's say we maintain 31k per week. And a low 50% for immunity.
4.8m, 31k per week x 50% = ~18 months before we hit 50%.
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4.8m, 31k per week x 50% = ~18 months before we hit 50%.
This is one reason why showing your math is super important. Let say its faster--half that. We have no idea that immunity is even durable for that long.
I have yet to see anyone arguing for burn through show their math, how much ppe is needed, discuss the toll on the hospital system, etc. Just disingenuous
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This is one reason why showing your math is super important. Let say its faster--half that. We have no idea that immunity is even durable for that long.
I have yet to see anyone arguing for burn through show their math, how much ppe is needed, discuss the toll on the hospital system, etc. Just disingenuous
If the goal is herd immunity, then get rid of all the PPE and let it progress way faster eh?
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If the goal is herd immunity, then get rid of all the PPE and let it progress way faster eh?
The medical professionals appreciate your empathy. ::)
(Yes, I know you weren't being literal.)
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This is one reason why showing your math is super important.
360M Americans x 60% herd immunity x .5% fatality rate = 1, 080,000 dead and another 20M (?) with last health effects.
That's my math.
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360M Americans x 60% herd immunity x .5% fatality rate = 1, 080,000 dead and another 20M (?) with last health effects.
That's my math.
We should easily get those fatality rates up over 3% since hospitals are already filling up.
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We should easily get those fatality rates up over 3% since hospitals are already filling up.
Bingo!!
The killers don’t realize that when you go for herd immunity, hundreds of thousands of people will be unable to get care.
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Lost in the election day insanity .. Wisconsin smashes to a new record 5771 cases yesterday.
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Lost in the election day insanity .. Wisconsin smashes to a new record 5771 cases yesterday.
And another 52 deaths...the third highest daily total so far. Before the beginning of October, Wisconsin's single-day high was 27.
#roundingtheturn
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Also, Wisconsin now has the 4th highest per capita rate of Covid since the beginning of the pandemic...trailing only North Dakota, South Dakota and Iowa.
That's higher than the initial epicenter in Washington that was blindsided first; higher than the states in the NY metro area that got hit in the spring; higher than the sun belt that was blasted this summer. Wisconsin's latest surge (and those of ND, SD and IA) has blown them all away, despite a lower population density than most of those places.
I feel kinda trapped here in MN. Our cases have been steadily climbing, but the per capita rate is still 26th in the country. Still, we are surrounded by the top four....
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Another new record today.. 5935. 6000 just around the corner.
It's probably smart to get sick now and eek out the last ICU bed instead of waiting a week to hit 7k/day.
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Also, Wisconsin now has the 4th highest per capita rate of Covid since the beginning of the pandemic...trailing only North Dakota, South Dakota and Iowa.
That's higher than the initial epicenter in Washington that was blindsided first; higher than the states in the NY metro area that got hit in the spring; higher than the sun belt that was blasted this summer. Wisconsin's latest surge (and those of ND, SD and IA) has blown them all away, despite a lower population density than most of those places.
I’ve lived in Wisco my whole life, and we’re just getting started. I don’t know if it’s the beer or the cheese, but we are, on average, a very stupid group of people.
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Another new record today.. 5935. 6000 just around the corner.
It's probably smart to get sick now and eek out the last ICU bed instead of waiting a week to hit 7k/day.
Co-workers are getting Covid at an alarming rate. We’re independent of one another but 4 members of my team are out. That’s a group of 18. It’ll be a stressful fall and winter for the workforce in Wisconsin as people are in and out and others have to pick up the slack.
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Co-workers are getting Covid at an alarming rate. We’re independent of one another but 4 members of my team are out. That’s a group of 18. It’ll be a stressful fall and winter for the workforce in Wisconsin as people are in and out and others have to pick up the slack.
It's getting very bad. And its going to get way worse before it gets better.
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It's getting very bad. And its going to get way worse before it gets better.
5th team member has to quarantine
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Wisconsin .. busting through 6k with authority today, 6,141 new record.
Should we take bets on when we hit 7k? It took under 14 days to go from 5 to 6k.
If we work hard at it, maybe 8k by Thanksgiving.
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Wisconsin .. busting through 6k with authority today, 6,141 new record.
Should we take bets on when we hit 7k? It took under 14 days to go from 5 to 6k.
If we work hard at it, maybe 8k by Thanksgiving.
I’m calling Tuesday.
Tomorrow will probably grow a bit, but the Sunday and Monday numbers will reflect less weekend testing. Tuesday will have people tested on Monday.
And I am guessing 8K will be in the rearview mirror by Thanksgiving.
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It only took ONE DAY from hitting 6,000 that WI crashed through 7,000 new cases. And I thought they'd make it through another couple of days. Officially 7,065 new cases and 45 more deaths.
Wow....
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It only took ONE DAY from hitting 6,000 that WI crashed through 7,000 new cases. And I thought they'd make it through another couple of days. Officially 7,065 new cases and 45 more deaths.
Wow....
Golfed today in Elkhorn. Once again, no one at the bar had masks. They did mention civil war, so I was happy they were maskless
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Golfed today in Elkhorn. Once again, no one at the bar had masks. They did mention civil war, so I was happy they were maskless
The Revolution starts at Evergreen.
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Should we take bets on when we hit 7k? It took under 14 days to go from 5 to 6k.
Wow. Nobody guessed "tomorrow". Looking like numbers in the teens next week. Stay safe WI friends!
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Wow. Nobody guessed "tomorrow". Looking like numbers in the teens next week. Stay safe WI friends!
Yeah, wow. Brutal.
On the plus side, we'll all learn what the word "exponential" means.
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I remember hearing the rule of thumb that every day in the hospital requires one week of rehab. I think this is going to be closer to a one for one. For every month of neglect it is going to take one month to dig out.
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Yeah, wow. Brutal.
On the plus side, we'll all learn what the word "exponential" means.
mhm... R0 is going to be impossible to bring under control without a true lockdown.
Which won't happen. So, I guess, enjoy the ride everyone... keep spitting on your health care workers.
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So, I guess, enjoy the ride everyone... keep spitting on your health care workers.
Please don't. One of them is my daughter, who as it is, may have to spend Christmas Day alone.
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Please don't. One of them is my daughter, who as it is, may have to spend Christmas Day alone.
I’m sure Hards was joking, but you are right – we need to recognize all the frontline healthcare workers for the heroic job they have done throughout the pandemic. And sadly, things are likely to get considerably worse before they get better.
Best to your daughter, chick!
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Please don't. One of them is my daughter, who as it is, may have to spend Christmas Day alone.
Gooooo is right, I was being sarcastic. I have a lot of friends who are in healthcare.
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The Revolution starts at Evergreen.
Could've been Lauderdale Lakes
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Could've been Lauderdale Lakes
I’m not that trashy
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I’m not that trashy
Ouch. I love that hole thats at like a 45 degree angle.
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Gooooo is right, I was being sarcastic.
I felt like that was pretty obvious.....
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Please don't. One of them is my daughter, who as it is, may have to spend Christmas Day alone.
Your daughter is a hero. Period!
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I'm definitely in gallows-humor mode for COVID.
I mean, like today's 4,280 cases. We had 7,000+ yesterday for crying out loud.
Slackers.
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The Revolution starts at Evergreen.
This checks out. One of their rangers was wearing a piece during a charity outing two years ago.
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I'd been hearing rumors that Evers was going to order all schools in the State to go virtual. Well that was very off base. His order only advises people to do things and I can't see it changing anyone's behavior unfortunately.
Here's the order:
https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/WIGOV/2020/11/10/file_attachments/1598467/EO094-COVIDRecommendations.pdf
Now I go back to being really stressed about our School Board meeting tomorrow and what they're going to do about the secondary school schedule going forward.
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I'd been hearing rumors that Evers was going to order all schools in the State to go virtual. Well that was very off base. His order only advises people to do things and I can't see it changing anyone's behavior unfortunately.
Here's the order:
https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/WIGOV/2020/11/10/file_attachments/1598467/EO094-COVIDRecommendations.pdf
Now I go back to being really stressed about our School Board meeting tomorrow and what they're going to do about the secondary school schedule going forward.
Your district isnt offering a virtual only option, if schools open back up?
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https://twitter.com/AnaCabrera/status/1326636912803803139?s=19
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https://twitter.com/AnaCabrera/status/1326636912803803139?s=19
I'm sorry, but things need to be shut down when hospitals are full (WI), and/or when you are telling nurses with COVID that they have to show up for work (ND) because there is a shortage of medical care.
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I'm sorry, but things need to be shut down when hospitals are full (WI), and/or when you are telling nurses with COVID that they have to show up for work (ND) because there is a shortage of medical care.
I agree. And unfortunately the whole upper Midwest is closing in on North Dakota and Wisconsin’s numbers.
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Your district isnt offering a virtual only option, if schools open back up?
They opened up 5 days a week face to face for Elementary schools (or virtual or eachieve academy) but only offered hybrid (2 days a week half the students in school) for secondary students or eachieve academy for secondary students. I did not want eachieve for my middle school child. Hybrid was working great but then the administration decided to go 4 days a week face to face for secondary students with only live streaming for a virtual option. The numbers have soared since they made this bad decisison to change the schedule. My middle school child's school just went virtual for two weeks today due to high Covid numbers.
Thankfully the board voted tonight to go back to their old hybrid cohort schedule tonight - that was working much better and the Covd numbers were so much better then.
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I'm sorry, but things need to be shut down when hospitals are full (WI), and/or when you are telling nurses with COVID that they have to show up for work (ND) because there is a shortage of medical care.
I just read that in some parts of Wisconsin nursing homes have such a shortage of nurses and nursing assistants that they might have to bring in residents' family members to be trained to do some of the work.
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Not a Covid shortage, but my neighbor’s mom lives in assisted living/ nursing home on the far north side of Chicago. It changed hands from a religious owner to secular. They have gotten rid of the full-time housekeepers, so families can do various chores themselves or hire someone. They were already doing her laundry.
How that’s going to work during Covid is beyond me.
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I just read that in some parts of Wisconsin nursing homes have such a shortage of nurses and nursing assistants that they might have to bring in residents' family members to be trained to do some of the work.
Thankless job, low pay, low budgets, dealing with difficult people and generally gross situations (to me at least).
Wonder why there is a shortage.
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Thankless job, low pay, low budgets, dealing with difficult people and generally gross situations (to me at least).
Wonder why there is a shortage.
My 94-year-old father-in-law is in an assisted living facility here in Charlotte. Through mid-October, they had not had a single case of COVID-19 -- not patients, not staff, nobody. A patient did get infected late last month but it was discovered quickly and she was isolated. Everybody else was promptly tested and all came back negative.
It's a pretty impressive record, and my wife is quite pleased overall with the level of care her dad has gotten these last 4 years.
But yes, I totally agree it's pretty thankless work at low pay, and am not surprised it's difficult to fill a staff.
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Yet there is always pushback towards raising pay. I, too, believe they are doing thankless jobs for little money, often with no benefits.
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Thankless job, low pay, low budgets, dealing with difficult people and generally gross situations (to me at least).
Wonder why there is a shortage.
"Essential" workers though.
But no extra pay for working through a pandemic.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/12/uline-founders-liz-and-dick-uihlein-test-positive-covid-19/6259280002 (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/12/uline-founders-liz-and-dick-uihlein-test-positive-covid-19/6259280002)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di6zv-2XoAIbFZw.jpg)
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"Essential" workers though.
But no extra pay for working through a pandemic.
Sort of like the lip service we pay our veterans. We call them heroes but won't compensate them as such.
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Sort of like the lip service we pay our veterans. We call them heroes but won't compensate them as such.
Eh we do plenty in theory but there's so much red tape barely any are able to navigate it between ptsd and the majority having only an HS degree.
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Eh we do plenty in theory but there's so much red tape barely any are able to navigate it between ptsd and the majority having only an HS degree.
So then the real question is why is this okay? Homelessness, drug addiction, suicides, mental health problems. We break these men and women and when they come back they have to fight for help. And we say that we do this in the name of Freedom? But I guess that is a conversation for another place and time.
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Yet there is always pushback towards raising pay. I, too, believe they are doing thankless jobs for little money, often with no benefits.
Kind of reminds me of how our School District was having trouble hiring aides and health room workers at the beginning of the school year. Let's see you pay next to nothing and want them to risk your health (a lot of them have to work the Covid isolation room too) - wonder why you can't find people to take those jobs???
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But yes, I totally agree it's pretty thankless work at low pay, and am not surprised it's difficult to fill a staff.
My daily life consists of my ceo whining and asking why my homes are half staffed. All while saying our employees should be thankful for 10/hr.
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My daily life consists of my ceo whining and asking why my homes are half staffed. All while saying our employees should be thankful for 10/hr.
Yup, also a big problem in the Madison area. And then agencies are forced to hire anyone that shows up.
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WI rolls a 7,777 today.
One short of a Yahtzee.
8k tomorrow I guess.
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Serb Hall today. So wrong.
https://mobile.twitter.com/CassidyWtv?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1327714334517104641%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jsonline.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2F2020%2F11%2F14%2Fhealth-officials-intervened-trump-rally-then-things-got-tense%2F6297818002%2F
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Serb Hall today. So wrong.
https://mobile.twitter.com/CassidyWtv?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1327714334517104641%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jsonline.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2F2020%2F11%2F14%2Fhealth-officials-intervened-trump-rally-then-things-got-tense%2F6297818002%2F
Good lord.
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That is awful. Guy lets them hold a gathering and they turn on him.
Did he really expect them to abide by his request?
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https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/jvc1h1/billionaire_megadoners_who_fought_wisconsins/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
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https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/jvc1h1/billionaire_megadoners_who_fought_wisconsins/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Once again proving that wealth and intelligence don't necessarily go hand in hand.
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Maybe I'm reading this wrong...but in checking out today's Covid numbers for MN and WI, I noticed a startling difference in testing numbers...and something apparently really bad about WI's numbers.
MN reported 7,444 new cases (on the summary near the top) from 51,607 tests (to see this, you need to click on 'Testing Data Table'). That's a huge number of new cases, and an alarming positivity rate of 14.4%. Still, the 50,000+ tests shows a tremendous effort to get people tested.
https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/situation.html#testing1
WI reported a more modest 4,389 cases from a total of 12,298 tests (both on the summary table near the top). That yields a positivity rate of 35.7%.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/data.htm
Am I missing something, or is WI's testing capability really so dramatically behind that in MN? Don't get me wrong; I am certainly not gloating about what is happening here in MN. I am horribly worried about the spread and positivity rate, and really believe we need more aggressive measures to curb the pandemic. But the testing numbers in WI - if I am reading them right - seem downright criminal. The states have roughly similar populations and demographics, so there should be no reason for WI to be testing less than 1/4th as many people as MN is testing.
Horrible misread on my part? Bad reporting practices in WI? Or is testing in WI really that far behind?
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Once again proving that wealth and intelligence don't necessarily go hand in hand.
it's not intelligence, it's greed.
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I saw something this morning that Wisconsin's numbers only include NEW people tested. For instance, my wife has had three Covid tests. All negative. She only counted toward the denominator the first time she was tested. Hypothetically, had she tested positive even the third time, she would have counted toward the numerator that time, but not the denominator.
So this has two impacts. First, it shows a lesser test number than actually is happening - it merely shows the new people tested each day. Second, it inflates the percent positive stat.
Now I am not sure I am right about this. I read the FAQ multiple times and THINK I am...
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From JSOnline:
Mondays typically turn out the lowest numbers of the week, as fewer tests are conducted and processed over the weekend. Still, the batch of nearly 4,400 new cases marks the highest Monday case count ever.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/11/16/wisconsin-coronavirus-state-reports-4-389-new-cases-12-deaths-monday/6314737002/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/11/16/wisconsin-coronavirus-state-reports-4-389-new-cases-12-deaths-monday/6314737002/)
Would guess we're usually doing 15-20K tests / day. Not much better.
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Thanks Fluffy and Lens - your follow up helps explain part of the gap. There still seems to be a significant difference between the states' testing, but not nearly as dramatic as it appeared.
Sure would be nice if there was a single, agreed-upon reporting format. I know - dream on....
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https://news.wisc.edu/uw-madison-to-expand-covid-19-testing-in-spring/
I heard the U of I chancellor talking about this on the radio today. He said that the U if I protocol has proved to be very effective -their positivity rate is less than one percent, students are tested I think twice a week, and they have quarantine and isolation protocols.
I also read something from a few weeks ago that said many residents of Iowa and Wisconsin are going to Illinois for tests. I don’t know where those get reported.
Illinois is now reporting the results of the antigen fast tests, which are less reliable than the PCR tests.
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https://news.wisc.edu/uw-madison-to-expand-covid-19-testing-in-spring/
I heard the U of I chancellor talking about this on the radio today. He said that the U if I protocol has proved to be very effective -their positivity rate is less than one percent, students are tested I think twice a week, and they have quarantine and isolation protocols.
I also read something from a few weeks ago that said many residents of Iowa and Wisconsin are going to Illinois for tests. I don’t know where those get reported.
Illinois is now reporting the results of the antigen fast tests, which are less reliable than the PCR tests.
It is my understanding that U of I received a grant to study the rapid testing. That is why they can afford to test students as often as they do.
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I saw something this morning that Wisconsin's numbers only include NEW people tested. For instance, my wife has had three Covid tests. All negative. She only counted toward the denominator the first time she was tested. Hypothetically, had she tested positive even the third time, she would have counted toward the numerator that time, but not the denominator.
So this has two impacts. First, it shows a lesser test number than actually is happening - it merely shows the new people tested each day. Second, it inflates the percent positive stat.
Now I am not sure I am right about this. I read the FAQ multiple times and THINK I am...
Yes that is true. So all testing at schools is only counted 1 time per student unless they test positive after the 1st negative test.
Talked with a dad of a baseball player at a state school that tests 3x per week.
It will be interesting how the numbers go while schools are on winter break for the next 2 months. I know in talking with the basketball coaches at St Norbert they have done really well to keep numbers down within the staff and students
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I saw something this morning that Wisconsin's numbers only include NEW people tested. For instance, my wife has had three Covid tests. All negative. She only counted toward the denominator the first time she was tested. Hypothetically, had she tested positive even the third time, she would have counted toward the numerator that time, but not the denominator.
So this has two impacts. First, it shows a lesser test number than actually is happening - it merely shows the new people tested each day. Second, it inflates the percent positive stat.
Now I am not sure I am right about this. I read the FAQ multiple times and THINK I am...
From an epidemiology standpoint, you do not want to include people routinely tested in test numbers. It would greatly skew the numbers and demonstrate an artificially low percent positive statistic that would be useless.
The impact on inflating the statistic is minimal at best.
Similarly, you want to understand testing capacity for the general public that has reason to believe they may be infected. There is a completely different pool of testing for routine surveillance testing within institutions conducting routine blanket tests. So you don't really want those tests included.
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Illinois is doing something to account for the U if I testing, but I don’t remember what.
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https://www.channel3000.com/dane-co-officials-ban-indoor-gatherings-limits-outdoor-gatherings-to-10-people/
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https://www.channel3000.com/dane-co-officials-ban-indoor-gatherings-limits-outdoor-gatherings-to-10-people/
This is just... I don't know.
I get the intent, and largely support it. But I hate the way they're messaging this. It's still okay for your employer to have you in the office with strangers (even at half capacity) but having a single person over to your house for Thanksgiving is too much?
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This is just... I don't know.
I get the intent, and largely support it. But I hate the way they're messaging this. It's still okay for your employer to have you in the office with strangers (even at half capacity) but having a single person over to your house for Thanksgiving is too much?
I mean, it's Dane County. Run by a bunch of well intentioned half-wits. I support it, but this will be the nail in the coffin for a ton of bars and restaurants that haven't paused or closed up shop. And honestly, that sucks. But at some point we have to accept this and end the suffering of people instead of things.
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So at this point is it safe to assume that another lockdown is just a case of "when" rather than "if" for WI with both IL and MN ramping up restrictions this week? As someone who hasn't been able to see certain family members because they work in the service industry (they're following all protocols, I've just been playing it safe), I'd sleep better if I knew that they were safe, even if it increases the economic struggle.
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So at this point is it safe to assume that another lockdown is just a case of "when" rather than "if" for WI with both IL and MN ramping up restrictions this week? As someone who hasn't been able to see certain family members because they work in the service industry (they're following all protocols, I've just been playing it safe), I'd sleep better if I knew that they were safe, even if it increases the economic struggle.
Most likely. I don't think Evers has the balls to do it until after the new year though.
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So at this point is it safe to assume that another lockdown is just a case of "when" rather than "if" for WI with both IL and MN ramping up restrictions this week? As someone who hasn't been able to see certain family members because they work in the service industry (they're following all protocols, I've just been playing it safe), I'd sleep better if I knew that they were safe, even if it increases the economic struggle.
If it was up to Evers, it would be a matter of 'when.' But the state legislature and courts get you back to 'if.'
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If it was up to Evers, it would be a matter of 'when.' But the state legislature and courts get you back to 'if.'
We have a state legislature? When do they meet?
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We have a state legislature? When do they meet?
At the current rate, once every 9 months! But its safe to go out!
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We have a state legislature? When do they meet?
I’m not sure they realize they are supposed to meet. They seem to think they exist simply to file lawsuits.
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I don't think Evers will try a state-wide closure. He might via the DPI have authority over the schools, so that might happen.
Frankly, at this stage, I don't think it matters.
Businesses aren't the bulk of the spreaders .. it's casual contact of friends and family being stupid and they aren't going to stop with a shelter-in-place order.
#doom #Arbys
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Businesses aren't the bulk of the spreaders .. it's casual contact of friends and family being stupid and they aren't going to stop with a shelter-in-place order.
That may be true, with one HUGE exception: bars. In Colorado and Louisiana, researchers attributed 20% of cases to bars.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/more-evidence-points-bars-adding-covid-19-spread
The data show that foot traffic to bars was followed by a rise in cases, and in Colorado and Louisiana—some of the few states that make contact tracing data public—20% of all cases can be traced to bars and restaurants.
Indoor dining, especially when capacity is capped at 25%, appears to be less of a problem than bars. But in bars, physical distancing is harder to control, and people talk more and louder when alcohol is consumed, which could contribute to the production of more virus aerosols.
......
Now consider the bar scene in WI, and ask yourself if it would be only 20%....
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If it was up to Evers, it would be a matter of 'when.' But the state legislature and courts get you back to 'if.'
I figure as soon as Evers makes an order, the Republicans start working on overturning it.
There were rumors Evers was going to shut down the schools in the state last week but those all proved to be a wild rumor of course. But I figure if he were to shut down the schools, someone would be suing to overturn it pretty quickly right away.
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Worst Gov. Evers duzant no his ass from a hole in da ground, aina?
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Gov. Tony Evers has a new, $541 million plan aimed at providing relief for Wisconsin residents during the coronavirus pandemic, but top Republicans who control the state Legislature signaled Tuesday they aren't on the same page and haven't drafted any of their own bills.
No kidding!! Those freeloaders would actually need to meet in session to do something. Much easier to ignore their jobs and just say no.
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Worst Gov. Evers duzant no his ass from a hole in da ground, aina?
Are you ever going to add anything to a conversation?
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Much more so than you ever have, hey?
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Much more so than you ever have, hey?
Good one.
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The malfeasance by the Wisconsin legislature during this pandemic for its citizens and businesses is a disgrace. Their obstructionism instead of fulfilling their civic duties would be reason to throw the lot of them out of office. Instead, we send one of the biggest offenders to D.C.
The numbers in Wisconsin are an embarrassment to this citizen. The selfishness and disregard for our fellow citizens is reason enough to say we are one of the worst states in the union
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Wisconsin population=5.86 million
Covid cases=351K
Covid deaths=2939
Follow the science, these covid numbers are statistically insignificant. Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating that illness and death are to be taken lightly or are insignificant. But, the policies, hysteria, and actions over the past 8 months, both locally and nationally are emotional, political, and over the top, to the detriment of our citizens' health and well-being. That doesn't even begin to address the economic fallout and devastation to millions upon millions of Americans going forward. Understand that nothing that Trump, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, or Stalin does will end this worldwide pandemic without an effective vaccine. Thankfully, that appears imminent, hey?
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Wisconsin population=5.86 million
Covid cases=351K
Covid deaths=2939
Follow the science, these covid numbers are statistically insignificant. Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating that illness and death are to be taken lightly or are insignificant. But, the policies, hysteria, and actions over the past 8 months, both locally and nationally are emotional, political, and over the top, to the detriment of our citizen's health and well-being. That this doesn't even begin to address the economic fallout and devastation to millions upon millions of Americans going forward. Understand that nothing that Trump, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, or Stalin does will end this worldwide pandemic without an effective vaccine. Thankfully, that appears imminent, hey?
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/a9195fa9633e923dbb61440f48d64fbd/tenor.gif?itemid=8062214)
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Thank you for your perspective.
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Wisconsin population=5.86 million
Covid cases=351K
Covid deaths=2939
Follow the science, these covid numbers are statistically insignificant. Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating that illness and death are to be taken lightly or are insignificant. But, the policies, hysteria, and actions over the past 8 months, both locally and nationally are emotional, political, and over the top, to the detriment of our citizens' health and well-being. That doesn't even begin to address the economic fallout and devastation to millions upon millions of Americans going forward. Understand that nothing that Trump, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, or Stalin does will end this worldwide pandemic without an effective vaccine. Thankfully, that appears imminent, hey?
I know you're just trolling at this point because I don't believe you to be this stupid.
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Wisconsin population=5.86 million
Covid cases=351K
Covid deaths=2939
Follow the science, these covid numbers are statistically insignificant. Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating that illness and death are to be taken lightly or are insignificant. But, the policies, hysteria, and actions over the past 8 months, both locally and nationally are emotional, political, and over the top, to the detriment of our citizens' health and well-being. That doesn't even begin to address the economic fallout and devastation to millions upon millions of Americans going forward. Understand that nothing that Trump, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, or Stalin does will end this worldwide pandemic without an effective vaccine. Thankfully, that appears imminent, hey?
I can't imagine anyone looking around right now and saying "hey this is fine. We can just wait it out."
This is going to be the third leading cause of death in the US in 2020. But hey, someone might need to close their bar so let's push on!
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Wisconsin population=5.86 million
Covid cases=351K
Covid deaths=2939
Follow the science, these covid numbers are statistically insignificant. Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating that illness and death are to be taken lightly or are insignificant. But, the policies, hysteria, and actions over the past 8 months, both locally and nationally are emotional, political, and over the top, to the detriment of our citizens' health and well-being. That doesn't even begin to address the economic fallout and devastation to millions upon millions of Americans going forward. Understand that nothing that Trump, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, or Stalin does will end this worldwide pandemic without an effective vaccine. Thankfully, that appears imminent, hey?
Can i just ask if you've added extra precautions in your practice?
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I can't imagine anyone looking around right now and saying "hey this is fine. We can just wait it out."
This is going to be the third leading cause of death in the US in 2020. But hey, someone might need to close their bar so let's push on!
2939/351000*5.86M = 49,000+ deaths. But they're cool with it.
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The state legislature has offerened nothing with regards to relief for small businesses across the state. They’ve offered nothing with regards to a plan to mitigate the spread. And Doc is right, the long term financial and emotional stresses will be real. What is our plan? Are we planning? The answer is a resounding no. The only response has been lawsuits (a common them nowadays) and billable hours.
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Follow the science, these covid numbers are statistically insignificant. Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating that illness and death are to be taken lightly or are insignificant. But, the policies, hysteria, and actions over the past 8 months, both locally and nationally are emotional, political, and over the top, to the detriment of our citizens' health and well-being. That doesn't even begin to address the economic fallout and devastation to millions upon millions of Americans going forward. Understand that nothing that Trump, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, or Stalin does will end this worldwide pandemic without an effective vaccine. Thankfully, that appears imminent, hey?
You know that hospitals are filling, right? And your POV disagrees with the actions of every leader of every country in the world, except for Trump and Bolansaro?
My uncle was diagnosed and is in bad shape in West Bend. The hospital doesn't have room to admit him, so they sent him home with a pulse oximeter and told him to come back when it gets even worse.
There are going to be a lot of frustrated, dying people in Wisconsin in the coming two months.
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The state legislature has offerened nothing with regards to relief for small businesses across the state. They’ve offered nothing with regards to a plan to mitigate the spread. And Doc is right, the long term financial and emotional stresses will be real. What is our plan? Are we planning? The answer is a resounding no. The only response has been lawsuits (a common them nowadays) and billable hours.
Exactly. Our response is essentially saying x amount of deaths is an acceptable cost for people to keep bars and restaurants open.
Instead of saying "we are going to help by providing you with $$$ so you don't have to stay open and we can save people's lives."
The morality of this is all very questionable.
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Can i just ask if you've added extra precautions in your practice?
Glad you axed. Yes, I have spent countless hours and dollars with the purpose of keeping my patients and staff safe. Staff and patients have temps taken. COVID question for is filled out and sign. Merv 17 air filtration units have been installed in the office. Social distancing is observed, proper wearing of masks are mandatory which includes covering both the nose and mouth. One time disposables are utilized along with face shields for those with direct patient contact. I wear an N95 mask and face shield all day. Iodine mouth rinses, which has been shown to kill viruses are required of patients prior to all intraoral procedures.
I feel perfectly safe in my office and patients have remarked that they do also, hey?
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Wisconsin population=5.86 million
Covid cases=351K
Covid deaths=2939
Follow the science, these covid numbers are statistically insignificant. Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating that illness and death are to be taken lightly or are insignificant. But, the policies, hysteria, and actions over the past 8 months, both locally and nationally are emotional, political, and over the top, to the detriment of our citizens' health and well-being. That doesn't even begin to address the economic fallout and devastation to millions upon millions of Americans going forward. Understand that nothing that Trump, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, or Stalin does will end this worldwide pandemic without an effective vaccine. Thankfully, that appears imminent, hey?
If you think 6% of the population suffering from a potentially deadly illness is 'statistically insignificant,' it's time to go back to school and retake biostatistics. If you think death is the only adverse outcome we should be concerned about, it begs the question: Do you adopt the same attitude for your patients?
"Don't worry Mrs. Jones; this cavity probably won't kill you, so it isn't significant enough to do anything about."
Or do you just adopt that cavalier and ignorant attitude when it's politically expedient and consistent with your worldview?
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Mrs. Smith, only 6% of your teeth need root canal.
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You know that hospitals are filling, right? And your POV disagrees with the actions of every leader of every country in the world, except for Trump and Bolansaro?
My uncle was diagnosed and is in bad shape in West Bend. The hospital doesn't have room to admit him, so they sent him home with a pulse oximeter and told him to come back when it gets even worse.
There are going to be a lot of frustrated, dying people in Wisconsin in the coming two months.
This is really the biggest point. People are being denied care, because there is no room. If Trump was a normal citizen (or a poor minority), he wouldn't have gotten a hospital bed. He wouldn't have gotten any of the emergency medicines. He would have been told to ride it out at home.
If he was treated as a normal citizen, would he even be alive?
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Glad you axed. Yes, I have spent countless hours and dollars with the purpose of keeping my patients and staff safe. Staff and patients have temps taken. COVID question for is filled out and sign. Merv 17 air filtration units have been installed in the office. Social distancing is observed, proper wearing of masks are mandatory which includes covering both the nose and mouth. One time disposables are utilized along with face shields for those with direct patient contact. I wear an N95 mask and face shield all day. Iodine mouth rinses, which has been shown to kill viruses are required of patients prior to all intraoral procedures.
I feel perfectly safe in my office and patients have remarked that they do also, hey?
So it seems like you have taken all the possible precautions to ensure you and your patients are safe as can be. I guess I'm curious why you don't seemingly advocate for that amongst the entire country?
I mean it would be great if this virus was choosing only those brazen enough to protect their freedoms by not being cautious, wearing masks, etc but it doesn't thus some people need to be told they have to take precautions.
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The biggest difference is that I don't expect, nor do I want, government to make decisions for me. Every governmental mandate has political overtones to it. I'm fully capable of making my own decisions, hey?
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The biggest difference is that I don't expect, nor do I want, government to make decisions for me. Every governmental mandate has political overtones to it. I'm fully capable of making my own decisions, hey?
And I think this is the ultimate issue that is underlying all of the mask or not to mask bull. What is the underlying purpose of government? In general I would prefer the smallest governmental intrusion as possible. However, I do believe that government should protect it's populous from (mentally I am having trouble coming up with the right word for this now) tragedies, such as wars and pandemics. That is when government should be at its best in leading the populous through to the other side.
Well that simply was not stated very well, but hopefully my intent comes through.....
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We expect the government to do a lot of things that have broad societal impact....starting with water and sewage.
Should we all start marching to STOP THE FLOW?
On a serious note, If govt cedes their responsibility and everyone is on there own, their choices impact more than themselves (chaos one would say). Therefore bad 'personal' choices impact my ability to get regular healthcare or care if I get a bad case of COVID. So what do you do. Government is making a controlling choice whether they act or make the choice not to act during a pandemic...similar to a war like someone referenced above.
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Sometimes the government needs to tell people what to do for the good of society. Since society has shown that it cannot act responsibly during a pandemic, rules should be put in place.
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Sometimes the government needs to tell people what to do for the good of society. Since society has shown that it cannot act responsibly during a pandemic, rules should be put in place.
It's this. Our society has proven that it isn't capable of effectively dealing with a global pandemic. It would be one thing if the only people who were affected were the people being irresponsible, but that isn't the case.
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The biggest difference is that I don't expect, nor do I want, government to make decisions for me. Every governmental mandate has political overtones to it. I'm fully capable of making my own decisions, hey?
So I agree with you, ideally a government isn't making the decisions for you. You made the responsible choice so it's easy to say you don't need a mandate. But if one of your patients came in maskless coughing like crazy and said they don't believe in this coronavirus hoax and made a big deal about their rights in your office, would you turn them away for not complying with your office rules? If so are you not essentially the same as the government enforcement except in a microcosm? You're protecting yourself and your employees from a threat, on a larger scale the government is trying to do the same (only replace employees with citizens)
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Glad you axed. Yes, I have spent countless hours and dollars with the purpose of keeping my patients and staff safe. Staff and patients have temps taken. COVID question for is filled out and sign. Merv 17 air filtration units have been installed in the office. Social distancing is observed, proper wearing of masks are mandatory which includes covering both the nose and mouth. One time disposables are utilized along with face shields for those with direct patient contact. I wear an N95 mask and face shield all day. Iodine mouth rinses, which has been shown to kill viruses are required of patients prior to all intraoral procedures.
I feel perfectly safe in my office and patients have remarked that they do also, hey?
same her doc, except iodine...yuck! people hate us enough but very effective nonetheless. we use a peroxide based rinse. also heard sometime back that listerine is very good so i stocked up on that before the shelves got bare.
note that the "hypers" missed this part of your statement-then it opens
"Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating that illness and death are to be taken lightly or are insignificant."
the collateral damage from this china virus is the other part of the equation our "leaders" do not want to deal with...right now anyway. the death and destruction will be greater than we can account for post covid
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My patients have all received, via blast emails, what they can expect from me and my office. Likewise, the emails also include what I, in turn, expect from them.
In the example you gave, my reply would be, "I require a properly worn mask at all times while in my office, except when you are directly receiving care. This is for the safety of all of us. And, if you choose not to properly wear a mask, I will require you to leave."
I am not a branch of government. I am a private business and my responsibility and duty is to create and maintain a comfortable and safe environment for all patients, staff, and myself, hey?
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the collateral damage from this china virus is the other part of the equation our "leaders" do not want to deal with...right now anyway. the death and destruction will be greater than we can account for post covid
Like what?
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Like what?
I assume “leaders” in quotes is a shot at the “leaders” in charge of Wisconsin? If so, I agree with Rocket. The state legislature has ignored the long-term economic and mental health represcussions but what can you do? It’s personal responsibility
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The biggest difference is that I don't expect, nor do I want, government to make decisions for me. Every governmental mandate has political overtones to it. I'm fully capable of making my own decisions, hey?
Do you apply this to:
Drunken Driving
Marijuana
Abortions
Having Car Insurance
Wearing Clothes in public
etc, etc. or just when it politically expedient for you?
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Do you apply this to:
Drunken Driving
Marijuana
Abortions
Having Car Insurance
Wearing Clothes in public
etc, etc. or just when it politically expedient for you?
Handicap spots seem to be a big item for 4ever
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same her doc, except iodine...yuck! people hate us enough but very effective nonetheless. we use a peroxide based rinse. also heard sometime back that listerine is very good so i stocked up on that before the shelves got bare.
note that the "hypers" missed this part of your statement-then it opens
"Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating that illness and death are to be taken lightly or are insignificant."
the collateral damage from this china virus is the other part of the equation our "leaders" do not want to deal with...right now anyway. the death and destruction will be greater than we can account for post covid
"china virus" LOL
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the collateral damage from this china virus is the other part of the equation our "leaders" do not want to deal with...right now anyway. the death and destruction will be greater than we can account for post covid
Congratulations and thank you for agreeing with what other have been saying all along.
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also heard sometime back that listerine is very good so i stocked up on that before the shelves got bare.
must have heard it from the greatone, do you tape your ankles too lol
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must have heard it from the greatone, do you tape your ankles too lol
Great reference that only people who have been here a loonnnnnnngggggg time, or on Dodd's board for a long time, will get.
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greatone
Gr8one
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Great reference that only people who have been here a loonnnnnnngggggg time, or on Dodd's board for a long time, will get.
I can't believe we've now been doing "this" (Ahoya / Dodds / Scoop) for 20+ years.
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Great reference that only people who have been here a loonnnnnnngggggg time, or on Dodd's board for a long time, will get.
Yeah, we've been internet losers for a long, long time. Lol.
Hand squeezers too...
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My patients have all received, via blast emails, what they can expect from me and my office. Likewise, the emails also include what I, in turn, expect from them.
In the example you gave, my reply would be, "I require a properly worn mask at all times while in my office, except when you are directly receiving care. This is for the safety of all of us. And, if you choose not to properly wear a mask, I will require you to leave."
I am not a branch of government. I am a private business and my responsibility and duty is to create and maintain a comfortable and safe environment for all patients, staff, and myself, hey?
I get, agree with, and respect your objective "to create and maintain a comfortable and safe environment for all patients, staff and myself". I think that in times of crisis, the government has to have the same view of all its citizens. The USA is their business, the citizens are their patients, staff and selves and the mandate is their email saying what's expected in other to defeat the virus. Unfortunately, some businesses fundamentally are not going to be places that work with those guidelines (indoor bars, concerts, etc) faster and stricter everyone abides by the rules the faster they can work
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Sometimes the government needs to tell people what to do for the good of society. Since society has shown that it cannot act responsibly during a pandemic, rules should be put in place.
Bingo! The actions of noncompliant people are directly affecting the lives of compliant people, so it is completely appropriate for government to step in.
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Small government has turned into "I want to do what I want, whenever I want without facing the consequences for my actions. Even if it is others who will be facing those consequences." I'm all for being left alone but if I am hucking eggs for fun into the side of someone's house, they probably have a right to get mad at me.
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For years I have heard people say they want government to be run like a business. So if a business can require masks, then the government should be able to as well, as the welfare of the people is its business. And as stated, it has already been shown that many people left on their own will not act responsibly.
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Going forward, going to need to be more specific about what kind of business and what kind of businessman.
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No kidding.
I have never actually subscribed to that theory. Government and business are two separate things
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No kidding.
I have never actually subscribed to that theory. Government and business are two separate things
Yep.
The goal of a business is to make money, plain and simple. Businesses that look out for the welfare of their employees do it mainly because they recognize employee well-being as beneficial to the company.
The goal of a (non-totalitarian) government is to serve the needs of its citizens. Period. Sometimes that means giving the citizens the freedom to do as they choose...but sometimes the needs of the citizens require restrictions to protect them from each other, in the name of the greater good.
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I assume “leaders” in quotes is a shot at the “leaders” in charge of Wisconsin? If so, I agree with Rocket. The state legislature has ignored the long-term economic and mental health represcussions but what can you do? It’s personal responsibility
thank you uncle! national "leaders" and "leaders" of our health organizations and the associated "experts" included. untreated medical issues due to either being postponed or from people scared out of their minds to go near a hospital or out of the house for that matter. children missing out on the social aspect of gathering in person. parents last minute scrambling to find day care or skipping work altogether. child abuse, spousal abuse, drug abuse, relapse and overdoses. lost time at schools leading to falling behind in educational growth, athletic participation and future opportunity at higher levels
sully-unless you were trolling, i would have expected that you being aligned with our "higher" educational
process, would be familiar or attuned to some, if not all of these critical issues. i probably left some out
the teachers that do not feel safe should not be forced to go to work. likewise, they should also not be paid. that money should go to the parents to offset their costs in assuming most of the role of teaching and child care arrangements. school portions of our property taxes should be adjusted. all building of school associated buildings should be halted immediately. tax vouchers should be immediately made available to attend the schools of their choices that parents would otherwise have to pay out of pocket for
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thank you uncle! national "leaders" and "leaders" of our health organizations and the associated "experts" included. untreated medical issues due to either being postponed or from people scared out of their minds to go near a hospital or out of the house for that matter. children missing out on the social aspect of gathering in person. parents last minute scrambling to find day care or skipping work altogether. child abuse, spousal abuse, drug abuse, relapse and overdoses. lost time at schools leading to falling behind in educational growth, athletic participation and future opportunity at higher levels
sully-unless you were trolling, i would have expected that you being aligned with our "higher" educational
process, would be familiar or attuned to some, if not all of these critical issues. i probably left some out
the teachers that do not feel safe should not be forced to go to work. likewise, they should also not be paid. that money should go to the parents to offset their costs in assuming most of the role of teaching and child care arrangements. school portions of our property taxes should be adjusted. all building of school associated buildings should be halted immediately. tax vouchers should be immediately made available to attend the schools of their choices that parents would otherwise have to pay out of pocket for
Yup, the failure of the Wisconsin legislature to tackle these problems is appalling
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Congrats, Cheezland!
(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2020%2F11%2F19%2Fmultimedia%2F19-MORNING-STATESCOUNTRIES%2F19-MORNING-STATESCOUNTRIES-articleLarge.png&t=1605873907&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1cc5-f7000101c900&sig=94J6chDJn4jOP3X8XHuxUA--~D)
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Congrats, Cheezland!
(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2020%2F11%2F19%2Fmultimedia%2F19-MORNING-STATESCOUNTRIES%2F19-MORNING-STATESCOUNTRIES-articleLarge.png&t=1605873907&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1cc5-f7000101c900&sig=94J6chDJn4jOP3X8XHuxUA--~D)
With deer hunting and Turkey day right around the corner, I’m confident we can pass the Dakotas. We’re Big Ten country, baby
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thank you uncle! national "leaders" and "leaders" of our health organizations and the associated "experts" included. untreated medical issues due to either being postponed or from people scared out of their minds to go near a hospital or out of the house for that matter. children missing out on the social aspect of gathering in person. parents last minute scrambling to find day care or skipping work altogether. child abuse, spousal abuse, drug abuse, relapse and overdoses. lost time at schools leading to falling behind in educational growth, athletic participation and future opportunity at higher levels
sully-unless you were trolling, i would have expected that you being aligned with our "higher" educational
process, would be familiar or attuned to some, if not all of these critical issues. i probably left some out
the teachers that do not feel safe should not be forced to go to work. likewise, they should also not be paid. that money should go to the parents to offset their costs in assuming most of the role of teaching and child care arrangements. school portions of our property taxes should be adjusted. all building of school associated buildings should be halted immediately. tax vouchers should be immediately made available to attend the schools of their choices that parents would otherwise have to pay out of pocket for
You're right, rocket. No leadership.
If your emperor (and his COVID-denying enablers in Wisconsin and elsewhere) had put 1/50th the effort into taking on the coronavirus as he currently is in trying to subvert democracy, America would be the envy of the world.
Ironically, if he had done that, he wouldn't have to try desperate, ridiculous attempts to overturn the will of the American people because he would have been re-elected easily.
Instead, he sent Jared out on April 29 to declare victory over COVID-19 before declaring, "It affects virtually nobody." I guess that means your emperor is nobody, because it ended up affecting him significantly.
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4 days of declining cases in a row!! Is it the quiet before the storm after thanksgiving?
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4 days of declining cases in a row!! Is it the quiet before the storm after thanksgiving?
Yes. After a quiet weekend, the grocery stores are jam packed today with cranky, clueless old people
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4 days of declining cases in a row!! Is it the quiet before the storm after thanksgiving?
Maybe people are paying attention to what's going on. That would be my hope.
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Anyone understand Wisconsin's Covid death reporting process well enough to explain the 'weekend dip' in reported deaths on Sundays and Mondays?
Last Sunday and Monday there were 12 deaths each day...followed by 92, 52, 83, 78 and 51. This Sunday and today there were 0 and 6.
I get why reported cases are lower - the less extensive testing on the weekends. But since most of the deaths likely occur in hospitals that operate and report 24/7, it seems peculiar that reported deaths would be dramatically lower on the weekends too....
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Anyone understand Wisconsin's Covid death reporting process well enough to explain the 'weekend dip' in reported deaths on Sundays and Mondays?
Last Sunday and Monday there were 12 deaths each day...followed by 92, 52, 83, 78 and 51. This Sunday and today there were 0 and 6.
I get why reported cases are lower - the less extensive testing on the weekends. But since most of the deaths likely occur in hospitals that operate and report 24/7, it seems peculiar that reported deaths would be dramatically lower on the weekends too....
I can't speak directly for WI, but I know in other states similar situations arose based on variations in coroner reporting on weekends. Where some counties do not have coroner reports submitted on the weekend. In those cases, the official "death" was being reported on the date the coroner report was submitted, not the date of the actual death, leading to decreases on weekends and inflated counts on Tuesday and Wednesday as they worked through a backlog.
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I can't speak directly for WI, but I know in other states similar situations arose based on variations in coroner reporting on weekends. Where some counties do not have coroner reports submitted on the weekend. In those cases, the official "death" was being reported on the date the coroner report was submitted, not the date of the actual death, leading to decreases on weekends and inflated counts on Tuesday and Wednesday as they worked through a backlog.
Thanks. That makes sense.
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I can't speak directly for WI, but I know in other states similar situations arose based on variations in coroner reporting on weekends. Where some counties do not have coroner reports submitted on the weekend. In those cases, the official "death" was being reported on the date the coroner report was submitted, not the date of the actual death, leading to decreases on weekends and inflated counts on Tuesday and Wednesday as they worked through a backlog.
Yeah, it isn't just Wisconsin, look at the daily death charts here and you will see there is a consistent two day dip every week nationwide. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
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I can't speak directly for WI, but I know in other states similar situations arose based on variations in coroner reporting on weekends. Where some counties do not have coroner reports submitted on the weekend. In those cases, the official "death" was being reported on the date the coroner report was submitted, not the date of the actual death, leading to decreases on weekends and inflated counts on Tuesday and Wednesday as they worked through a backlog.
Today's count seems to validate that theory.
Reported Deaths in WI:
Sunday: 0
Monday: 6
Today: 104 :(
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According to the WI DHS website, only 9,511 tests were conducted yesterday, with 3,831 positives.
Have they basically given up on finding most of the positives?
North Dakota - with less than 1/6th the population of WI - reported more tests yesterday. Here in MN, almost 100,000 tests were reported yesterday...ten times the number conducted in WI.
Someone is dropping the ball, and cases are going to slip through the cracks....
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According to the WI DHS website, only 9,511 tests were conducted yesterday, with 3,831 positives.
Have they basically given up on finding most of the positives?
North Dakota - with less than 1/6th the population of WI - reported more tests yesterday. Here in MN, almost 100,000 tests were reported yesterday...ten times the number conducted in WI.
Someone is dropping the ball, and cases are going to slip through the cracks....
Holiday weekend.
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Holiday weekend.
I sure hope the weekend gap apples only to reporting, and not the actual testing. The virus doesn’t take weekends off.
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I sure hope the weekend gap apples only to reporting, and not the actual testing. The virus doesn’t take weekends off.
I’m sure symptomatic testing still was taking place.
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42-year-old first responder dies of COVID-19.
https://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/national/article247548510.html?ac_cid=DM335870&ac_bid=-1263979306
A 15-year veteran of a Wisconsin fire department died of COVID-19 after she was exposed in the line of duty, her sister says.
Capt. Kelly Raether, 42, joined the Ixonia Fire Department in 2005 as an EMT before ascending the ranks to captain of emergency medical services, the department said.
Ixonia Fire Chief Dave Schilling said he and Raether were tending to a patient in an ambulance in November who tested positive for the virus, WLWT reported. Schilling said he and his other partner were fine, but Raether “ended up testing positive.”
A few days later, she was hospitalized, he told the outlet. Her condition continued to worsen.
“(I) talked to her on the phone quite a bit, a lot of text messaging back and forth,” Schilling said, according to WLWT. “She was absolutely convinced that she was going to go into the hospital, get straightened out, and come back out again and go about her normal life again.”
On Nov. 27, the department announced Raether had died from complications due to COVID-19.
“As a department, we mourn Kelly’s loss deeply, and extend our thoughts and prayers to the Raether family in their time of need,” the department said, adding, “Rest in peace sister, we’ll take it from here.”
Schilling called Raether a “dedicated individual” who was deeply involved at the fire department, the Journal Sentinel reported.
She was a registered nurse with a passion for teaching, serving as a lecturer in nursing at Carroll University.
She was also working toward her doctorate to become an emergency room nurse practitioner, Kari Raether told the Journal Sentinel.
“She wanted to help more people in an ER setting,” Kari Raether said. “She just started that this semester.”
Raether previously earned her master’s of science in nursing, with a specialization in education from Walden University.
“I got into teaching to share my passion for nursing and education with others,” she wrote on her Carroll University faculty page. “ I love learning from the students as much as I hope they love learning from me.”
Dr. Teri Kaul, chair of nursing at Carroll University, said Raether had just gotten started.
“Her career as a nurse educator and leader in nursing had just begun,” Kaul said, the Journal Sentinel reported. “Nursing is a calling to serve others, which Kelly always did with honor and grace.”
Schilling said Raether’s passing is considered a line-of-duty death, WLWT reported.
“(Her) locker will remain empty. I’m not gonna replace (her),” he said. “No one is going to be going into that locker.”
Ixonia is roughly 35 miles west of Milwaukee.
Wisconsin has logged more than 391,000 cases of COVID-19 since the onset of the pandemic and more than 3,400 deaths, according to data from the state health department.
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I shouldn't be shocked by this but yet I kind of am - I have so many issues with the Assembly Republicans proposed Covid-19 Legislation:
https://www.wpr.org/assembly-gops-covid-19-plan-would-send-teachers-back-school-state-workers-back-offices
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I shouldn't be shocked by this but yet I kind of am - I have so many issues with the Assembly Republicans proposed Covid-19 Legislation:
https://www.wpr.org/assembly-gops-covid-19-plan-would-send-teachers-back-school-state-workers-back-offices
Yup. For those wondering why Evers won't deal with the legislature, this article says it all.
Bravo to Evers for not caving.
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Yup. For those wondering why Evers won't deal with the legislature, this article says it all.
Bravo to Evers for not caving.
I focused on the school part first which would surely mean no more virtual option for our District as there's no way 2/3 of our school board would vote to continue virtual :(. And my kids aren't virtual right now but I think that option should be offered and I think they need to be able to switch some schools to virtual when case numbers get high.
But then I started reading everything else in there too and getting more and more upset...
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Testing this week in WI has yet to surpass 10K. Positivity rate still in high 30's. Feels like the state is about to explode.
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Testing this week in WI has yet to surpass 10K. Positivity rate still in high 30's. Feels like the state is about to explode.
The total tests have been around 19k per day, with a 7 day average of about 13% positive. The state reports the people tested, which do not account for individuals getting tested multiple times.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/data.htm
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Testing this week in WI has yet to surpass 10K. Positivity rate still in high 30's. Feels like the state is about to explode.
Yep - I have mentioned Wisconsin's deficient testing here before, and it just boggles my mind. Neighboring states are testing FAR more. MN (similar population) is averaging about 50K tests per day; IL (about double WI population) about 100K per day; even ND (about 1/5th WI population) is just over 10K tests per day. Per capita, all three of those states are reporting about 5 TIMES as many tests daily.
And even if you take out people tested more than once, they are still below 20K tests per day...way too few.
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The total tests have been around 19k per day, with a 7 day average of about 13% positive. The state reports the people tested, which do not account for individuals getting tested multiple times.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/data.htm
Thanks for the clarification. I was going off of tests by person. Even with the data you cite, there has been a pretty sizable downturn in testing.
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Yep - I have mentioned Wisconsin's deficient testing here before, and it just boggles my mind. Neighboring states are testing FAR more. MN (similar population) is averaging about 50K tests per day; IL (about double WI population) about 100K per day; even ND (about 1/5th WI population) is just over 10K tests per day. Per capita, all three of those states are reporting about 5 TIMES as many tests daily.
And even if you take out people tested more than once, they are still below 20K tests per day...way too few.
What’s the reason behind that you think?
There’s obviously plenty of tests to be had if you want one. Any chance we’re on the back end of our surge and there just isn’t that many symptomatic people looking to get a test or is there something else you think is going on?
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The total tests have been around 19k per day, with a 7 day average of about 13% positive. The state reports the people tested, which do not account for individuals getting tested multiple times.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/data.htm
Overall testing is of course important in identifying where the hot spots are in hopes of stomping those out as soon as possible. But I think we all agree hospitalizations are the most important metric. Knock on wood those numbers have been trending in the right direction for a bit.
https://www.wha.org/Covid-19Update
Hopefully the worst is behind us in America’s Dairyland.
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Overall testing is of course important in identifying where the hot spots are in hopes of stomping those out as soon as possible. But I think we all agree hospitalizations are the most important metric. Knock on wood those numbers have been trending in the right direction for a bit.
https://www.wha.org/Covid-19Update
Hopefully the worst is behind us in America’s Dairyland.
Yooooo puff puff give. I want some of what you're smoking, bro
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Yooooo puff puff give. I want some of what you're smoking, bro
It’s puff puff pass....bro
I’m just posting Wisconsin Hospital Association numbers and trends. How does that warrant such a weird response?
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What’s the reason behind that you think?
There’s obviously plenty of tests to be had if you want one. Any chance we’re on the back end of our surge and there just isn’t that many symptomatic people looking to get a test or is there something else you think is going on?
I honestly don’t know. The number of confirmed cases seems to have gone down much more quickly in Wisconsin than I have seen anywhere else, leading me to suspect that cases are going undiagnosed. The high positivity also points in this direction.
But as to why, or whether it is a real downward trend, I couldn’t tell you.
For the sake of the many family members I have living in the state, I hope the trend is real, and not just an artifact of inadequate testing.
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I honestly don’t know. The number of confirmed cases seems to have gone down much more quickly in Wisconsin than I have seen anywhere else, leading me to suspect that cases are going undiagnosed. The high positivity also points in this direction.
But as to why, or whether it is a real downward trend, I couldn’t tell you.
For the sake of the many family members I have living in the state, I hope the trend is real, and not just an artifact of inadequate testing.
I’m with ya in hoping for the best.
If testing was adequate and available for the past 2 months during the surge I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt that it remains adequate and available.
Either people are symptomatic and not getting tested at the same rate (no bueno) but nothing anyone can really do about that or there just aren’t as many folks feeling like sh*t.
It wasn’t going to go up and up forever so hoping people took necessary precautions to slow this thing down.
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It’s puff puff pass....bro
I’m just posting Wisconsin Hospital Association numbers and trends. How does that warrant such a weird response?
First off:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s_zsOyHbVY
Secondly, we are not even remotely close to the worst of this yet, nor are we on the back end of our surge.
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First off:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s_zsOyHbVY
Secondly, we are not even remotely close to the worst of this yet, nor are we on the back end of our surge.
Good call with the link, don’t remember that specific line obviously but great movie! I stand corrected bro.
No one can say for sure if we are or aren’t on the back end of it. Nothing wrong with hoping that we are right?
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Thanksgiving is barely showing in the data. This will get much, much worse.
If you want to know what it looks like when a country gives up, keep refreshing the Covid numbers over the next 6-8 weeks.
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Thanksgiving is barely showing in the data. This will get much, much worse.
If you want to know what it looks like when a country gives up, keep refreshing the Covid numbers over the next 6-8 weeks.
True, I’ve heard you’re supposed to wait 3-5 days after exposure to get tested. If that’s right we should be seeing the effects in the numbers soon.
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True, I’ve heard you’re supposed to wait 3-5 days after exposure to get tested. If that’s right we should be seeing the effects in the numbers soon.
5 days minimum for mRNA PCR test
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Thanks for the clarification. I was going off of tests by person. Even with the data you cite, there has been a pretty sizable downturn in testing.
Colleges students are home so not as much testing of that age group
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Colleges students are home so not as much testing of that age group
Most UW schools are still on campus right?
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Most UW schools are still on campus right?
I thought they were home now until 2nd semester, but i might be wrong.
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Since WI hit a record high 3 weeks ago cases have been going down. Hospitals are in better shape with 500 less covid patients.
Hopefully people have learned and keep up the good fight. No time to relax but it is good to see
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Since WI hit a record high 3 weeks ago cases have been going down. Hospitals are in better shape with 500 less covid patients.
Hopefully people have learned and keep up the good fight. No time to relax but it is good to see
Total tests given have fallen by nearly 50% in Wisconsin, from 45k down to 25k per day
The positive rate in Wisconsin is still 29%. Wild.
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Total tests given have fallen by nearly 50% in Wisconsin, from 45k down to 25k per day
The positive rate in Wisconsin is still 29%. Wild.
I know that is the strange part.
The hospitals getting a bit of a break is what I like to see.
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Total tests given have fallen by nearly 50% in Wisconsin, from 45k down to 25k per day
The positive rate in Wisconsin is still 29%. Wild.
I see that and think, wow, 71% of the people getting tested didn't need to wait in line all that time.
..
I am .. surprised that WI hit a peak ~20 days ago and had a steady decline. The only explanation I can think of is that people .. actually started to heed the warnings. And that just can't be right.
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I see that and think, wow, 71% of the people getting tested didn't need to wait in line all that time.
..
I am .. surprised that WI hit a peak ~20 days ago and had a steady decline. The only explanation I can think of is that people .. actually started to heed the warnings. And that just can't be right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANEoRPlJ1z4
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I see that and think, wow, 71% of the people getting tested didn't need to wait in line all that time.
..
I am .. surprised that WI hit a peak ~20 days ago and had a steady decline. The only explanation I can think of is that people .. actually started to heed the warnings. And that just can't be right.
It's odd that Wisconsin is testing 1/5th the number of people that Illinois is (IL is testing on average 100k people per day).
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It's odd that Wisconsin is testing 1/5th the number of people that Illinois is (IL is testing on average 100k people per day).
Also far fewer than MN, which has been averaging about 50k tests per day. And MN’s population is slightly smaller than WI’s.
MN’s positivity rate is currently about 10%. High, but not outrageously so.
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Also far fewer than MN, which has been averaging about 50k tests per day. And MN’s population is slightly smaller than WI’s.
MN’s positivity rate is currently about 10%. High, but not outrageously so.
For me it’s only a couple different scenarios that can be playing out. The general public obviously knows the symptoms of Covid at this point, so guessing those with minor/controllable symptoms do not feel the need for the confirmation via a test and just assume they have it. In that case hopefully they’re being responsible and isolating per CDC guidelines. With hospitalizations on a steady decline it suggests to me people are being responsible more then they’re not.
Or two we’ve handled the worst or our surge and the infection is starting to lose it’’s grip on the state. Either way let’s hope for the continued decline in hospitalizations and a return to normalcy soon!
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For me it’s only a couple different scenarios that can be playing out. The general public obviously knows the symptoms of Covid at this point, so guessing those with minor/controllable symptoms do not feel the need for the confirmation via a test and just assume they have it. In that case hopefully they’re being responsible and isolating per CDC guidelines. With hospitalizations on a steady decline it suggests to me people are being responsible more then they’re not.
Or two we’ve handled the worst or our surge and the infection is starting to lose it’’s grip on the state. Either way let’s hope for the continued decline in hospitalizations and a return to normalcy soon!
Hopefully you're right. It just seems odd that the testing numbers and positivity rates would be so dramatically different than in neighboring states, especially since the knowledge of symptoms would seem to be essentially the same throughout the region.
Anyway, it would be nice if you're right. With vaccine access for the general public still months away, we could use some good news....
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Also far fewer than MN, which has been averaging about 50k tests per day. And MN’s population is slightly smaller than WI’s.
MN’s positivity rate is currently about 10%. High, but not outrageously so.
Is MN reporting total tests or only first-time tests like WI?
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Is MN reporting total tests or only first-time tests like WI?
WI reports both, while MN is only reporting total tests.
But even when you compare 'positivity rates' using total tests, the rate in WI is about 40% higher (approx. 13% to 9%). And there is a dramatic difference in the total number of tests per day.
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Hopefully you're right. It just seems odd that the testing numbers and positivity rates would be so dramatically different than in neighboring states, especially since the knowledge of symptoms would seem to be essentially the same throughout the region.
Anyway, it would be nice if you're right. With vaccine access for the general public still months away, we could use some good news....
Does WI report all tests, or just the PCR tests. Some states will not report the 15-minute rapid, or antigen tests. As those become more popular and available, you might simply see fewer "tests" being reported as they simply shift to these other tests.
Similarly on case numbers. Not sure about WI, but some states only report positive tests if they were from the PCR test, positive tests from 15-minute rapid, or antigen tests are not included in the total number of cases/positive tests.
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Illinois reports both PCR and antigen, I believe.
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Wisconsin numbers all around are just strange.
https://www.wha.org/COVID19Update
Hospitalizations and cases mirror pretty close. always thought cases would be a few more days ahead - I suspect this is cause people have waited until they need to be hospitalized before they get tested. That could also be reason for the low testing numbers. People feel the symptoms quarantine until it gets too bad. Then you either go to the hospital get confirmed or stay home and ride it out
Number of tests has been between 10,000-20,000 since end of May. Would be nice if data was measured the same all over the country might help to understand things better,
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Would be nice if data was measured the same all over the country might help to understand things better
Completely agree.
Quite frankly, this is one of the reasons it would have been ideal to allow CDC to be more involved from the start. We could have gotten a better handle on the pandemic if we had centralized processes for acquiring and distributing PPE, contact tracing, and tracking and reporting infections across the country.
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Completely agree.
Quite frankly, this is one of the reasons it would have been ideal to allow CDC to be more involved from the start. We could have gotten a better handle on the pandemic if we had centralized processes for acquiring and distributing PPE, contact tracing, and tracking and reporting infections across the country.
Are you saying we need a little bit of gold old fashioned glasnost and perestroika?
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Are you saying we need a little bit of gold old fashioned glasnost and perestroika?
I’d be happy with simple competence.
;)
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https://www.channel3000.com/wisconsin-isnt-seeing-the-thanksgiving-surge-of-covid-19-many-health-experts-predicted-but-why/
No Thanksgiving surge as predicted, shocker!
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https://www.channel3000.com/wisconsin-isnt-seeing-the-thanksgiving-surge-of-covid-19-many-health-experts-predicted-but-why/
No Thanksgiving surge as predicted, shocker!
I hope that is correct...but we have been talking about the mysteriously flat testing numbers in Wisconsin for a few days now. Apparently even the doctors at UW Health aren’t quite sure what to make of that.
“We’re not seeing it in the case of a lot of new cases coming up,” said Dr. Jeff Pothof, Chief Quality Officer for UW Health. “I don’t know if it’s just people are getting tested less and less often, or I don’t know if it’s a data issue where the broad availability of antigen tests are not filing into the databases that we’re looking at.”
The real test will come over the next couple of weeks, as we see whether hospitalizations increase. Fingers crossed.
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Sent an employee for a test yesterday at noon, and she got her result this morning.
Turn around times are good... but because few are getting tested.
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https://www.channel3000.com/wisconsin-isnt-seeing-the-thanksgiving-surge-of-covid-19-many-health-experts-predicted-but-why/
No Thanksgiving surge as predicted, shocker!
So why do you say "shocker?"
Public health people asked people to avoid large family gatherings. Many people apparently did that. Cases therefore went down.
Are you saying because the advice worked that it was bad advice?
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It's like item number four on a COVID bingo card.
- Event x, y or z didnt cause a spike
Reality is that these events build. Thanksgiving surely caused spread, the first order occurs and we dismiss it. However the more spread, the more opportunity to pass along further. 3, 4, 5 weeks later it shows up.
So I dont know if 'they' were right or wrong. But I sure wouldnt judge it 2 weeks after (to the day)
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No they weren't wrong. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that family gatherings spread the disease. What likely occurred is more people listened to the advice than we thought would do so.
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https://www.channel3000.com/wisconsin-isnt-seeing-the-thanksgiving-surge-of-covid-19-many-health-experts-predicted-but-why/
No Thanksgiving surge as predicted, shocker!
Good news for the families across the state that heeded the warnings of public health officials and limited their gatherings or adjusted them accordingly. About time people understand this isn’t a hoax and take it seriously.
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https://www.channel3000.com/wisconsin-isnt-seeing-the-thanksgiving-surge-of-covid-19-many-health-experts-predicted-but-why/
No Thanksgiving surge as predicted, shocker!
I'm taking the bait here, but why do you minimize/trivialize Covid so much?
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Here's my theory .. WI starts rolling serious numbers, 7000+ daily about 17 days before Thanksgiving. A week later, it hits a peak and steadily goes down.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think Wisconsinites finally got the message, 10-14 days before Thanksgiving: Cases dropped by nearly 50%.
Maybe, just maybe .. that peak is what "saved" WI from a Thanksgiving surge. Those 7000+/cases/day made them wake up and cancel their plans at the exact right moment.
Many midwest states have the same path .. MN, IA, MI, IL .. they peaked before Thanksgiving then started a downward trend.
Then look at FL, GA, AK, .. no peak .. and all upward trend.
They should try an experiment .. fake the numbers insane high in a few states, see if people change their behavior. (Although I suppose, it's not just "the number" it's also that a dozen of your neighbors have it and you know some folks in the hospital.)
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Maybe, just maybe .. that peak is what "saved" WI from a Thanksgiving surge. Those 7000+/cases/day made them wake up and cancel their plans at the exact right moment.
Many midwest states have the same path .. MN, IA, MI, IL .. they peaked before Thanksgiving then started a downward trend.
I sure hope you and Pace are correct. We will know for sure over the next couple of weeks as we see hospitalization numbers and then eventually deaths. While new cases can be confusing based on various test reporting mechanisms, it’s harder to miss Covid-related hospitalizations and deaths.
🤞
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Here's my theory .. WI starts rolling serious numbers, 7000+ daily about 17 days before Thanksgiving. A week later, it hits a peak and steadily goes down.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think Wisconsinites finally got the message, 10-14 days before Thanksgiving: Cases dropped by nearly 50%.
Maybe, just maybe .. that peak is what "saved" WI from a Thanksgiving surge. Those 7000+/cases/day made them wake up and cancel their plans at the exact right moment.
Many midwest states have the same path .. MN, IA, MI, IL .. they peaked before Thanksgiving then started a downward trend.
Then look at FL, GA, AK, .. no peak .. and all upward trend.
They should try an experiment .. fake the numbers insane high in a few states, see if people change their behavior. (Although I suppose, it's not just "the number" it's also that a dozen of your neighbors have it and you know some folks in the hospital.)
So the ends would justify the means? What about when the public eventually finds out the truth about the numbers and trusts government and public health officials even less?
I'm sure my medical ethics prof could run an entire semester on public health's response to covid19.
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I'm pretty sure topper was kidding.
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Like it would negatively impact public trust any more than the past decade (cough, 4 years, cough) of destroying public trust in everything?
Oh noes.
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Like it would negatively impact public trust any more than the past decade (cough, 4 years, cough) of destroying public trust in everything?
Oh noes.
I am pretty sure there has been an active attempt at the reverse of your experiment.
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Like it would negatively impact public trust any more than the past decade (cough, 4 years, cough) of destroying public trust in everything?
Oh noes.
We both know that who is in office is a factor, and then who you ask.
I'm sure in early Jan there will be a large swath of people who stop trusting the government, and a large swath who begin to trust the government again.
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So why do you say "shocker?"
Public health people asked people to avoid large family gatherings. Many people apparently did that. Cases therefore went down.
Are you saying because the advice worked that it was bad advice?
I said shocker cause we were guaranteed a surge, just like we were guaranteed a surge after the state elections in April and I was generally shocked that neither led to a surge.
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I'm taking the bait here, but why do you minimize/trivialize Covid so much?
It’s not my intention to minimize it but rather treat it with the level of respect it deserves. It’s a virus that if you’re old or have multiple preexisting conditions can really wipe you out, so those populations should be very careful and essentially isolate in their home. They should be able to make that decision for themselves, not be forced to make that decision by government mandates.
But if you’re not high risk and/or old the amount of self imposed damage we have caused ourselves is unthinkable because of the fear mongering and BS you see on cable news.
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Oh god not this ridiculousness again.
Time after time the same points are raised, you ignore them, diapers for awhile, the come back with some new weird article that has either been disproven, or didn't read and we go around again.
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It’s not my intention to minimize it but rather treat it with the level of respect it deserves. It’s a virus that if you’re old or have multiple preexisting conditions can really wipe you out, so those populations should be very careful and essentially isolate in their home. They should be able to make that decision for themselves, not be forced to make that decision by government mandates.
But if you’re not high risk and/or old the amount of self imposed damage we have caused ourselves is unthinkable because of the fear mongering and BS you see on cable news.
I got 280,000 dead and probably at least that many with long term health issues, as well as well over 10 million infected that say you are stupid. It will be the leading killer in America in 2020. And this path was consciously chosen.
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Good news for the families across the state that heeded the warnings of public health officials and limited their gatherings or adjusted them accordingly. About time people understand this isn’t a hoax and take it seriously.
Yea, isn’t this what we’ve been saying all along. If we do the right things, some will look back and say that it wasn’t really that bad and we overreacted. However, the reason it wasn’t that bad was because we took the right steps in the first place.
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Oh god not this ridiculousness again.
Time after time the same points are raised, you ignore them, diapers for awhile, the come back with some new weird article that has either been disproven, or didn't read and we go around again.
I was asked a question and answered. I understand it’s not an opinion a lot of you agree with, that’s been made very clear over the months.
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I was asked a question and answered. I understand it’s not an opinion a lot of you agree with, that’s been made very clear over the months.
Because your opinion doesn't logically make sense. It would if it was a sexually transmitted virus, where you can consciously choose if you're going to put yourself at risk. But the transmission of this makes it other people's decision not yours. That's why people are so frustrated that you keep repeating these same tired lines about "people should have the choice" well if I choose to be cautious and wear a mask, limit social engagement etc but you don't and we both go grocery shopping, and you give me the virus. What good was my choice?
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One of my problems with the argument that the only vulnerable should shelter is that no one espousing that explains what vulnerable people who need to work should do, or what about households that contain both young healthy people and vulnerable people. It seems to assume that all those in that position don’t work and live by themselves.
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One of my problems with the argument that the only vulnerable should shelter is that no one espousing that explains what vulnerable people who need to work should do, or what about households that contain both young healthy people and vulnerable people. It seems to assume that all those in that position don’t work and live by themselves.
Agreed. I think that people that do not believe in wearing masks, or have a medical exception to wearing masks, should shelter in place. Our (used loosely) collective belief in individualism will be the downfall of this country. Unless you are off grid somewhere on your own land you are not an individual but a member of a community. So tired of the idiots that refuse to acknowledge this.
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It’s not my intention to minimize it but rather treat it with the level of respect it deserves. It’s a virus that if you’re old or have multiple preexisting conditions can really wipe you out, so those populations should be very careful and essentially isolate in their home. They should be able to make that decision for themselves, not be forced to make that decision by government mandates.
But if you’re not high risk and/or old the amount of self imposed damage we have caused ourselves is unthinkable because of the fear mongering and BS you see on cable news.
I'd love to know your opinion on drunk driving. Should the government put the safety of all drivers first, or should we put the freedom of people who toss back 5 scotch and sodas with their lunch ahead of them?
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I'd love to know your opinion on drunk driving. Should the government put the safety of all drivers first, or should we put the freedom of people who toss back 5 scotch and sodas with their lunch ahead of them?
Silly analogy, apples and oranges.
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Because your opinion doesn't logically make sense. It would if it was a sexually transmitted virus, where you can consciously choose if you're going to put yourself at risk. But the transmission of this makes it other people's decision not yours. That's why people are so frustrated that you keep repeating these same tired lines about "people should have the choice" well if I choose to be cautious and wear a mask, limit social engagement etc but you don't and we both go grocery shopping, and you give me the virus. What good was my choice?
By leaving your house you are consciously making a decision to take on the risk of getting an airborne virus. It’s your decision to make that calculation whether that’s to a grocery store, work, school, shopping, etc.
In the context of your silly analogy to STDs would you be ok with the government telling you can’t go on a date because of the chance that date leads to slapping skins and that leads to the possibility of contracting an STD?
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By leaving your house you are consciously making a decision to take on the risk of getting an airborne virus. It’s your decision to make that calculation whether that’s to a grocery store, work, school, shopping, etc.
In the context of your silly analogy to STDs would you be ok with the government telling you can’t go on a date because of the chance that date leads to slapping skins and that leads to the possibility of contracting an STD?
Well that's an egregious misrepresentation of theSTD analogy, wearing a mask is akin to wearing a condom. Is it 100% effective? Nope, but if you have to take the risk, protect yourself and others. No different than masks. And wait, the government does (or did under realistic people not religious nut jobs) advocate for condoms, so to answer your question, yes I would be okay with that.
And let me get this straight, you're saying stay home to protect yourself, but when it's a necessary trip your take is that they should starve or accept the extreme risk of going to the grocery store so guys like you can... read lips better as opposed to simply wearing masks and minimizing activities for a bit? Do you not see how blatantly selfish that is?
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One of my problems with the argument that the only vulnerable should shelter is that no one espousing that explains what vulnerable people who need to work should do, or what about households that contain both young healthy people and vulnerable people. It seems to assume that all those in that position don’t work and live by themselves.
It does not assume that in anyway. In those scenarios the option of working from home should be available, if it’s not that’s where all the stimulus money should be going. Old/high risk or blended households or for that matter anyone too concerned and doesn’t feel it’s worth going to work but doesn’t have the option of working from home should be kept afloat via stimulus checks or ramped up unemployment benefits.
While the rest of everyone who is comfortable going to work, school, etc is allowed to carry on.
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Well that's an egregious misrepresentation of theSTD analogy, wearing a mask is akin to wearing a condom. Is it 100% effective? Nope, but if you have to take the risk, protect yourself and others. No different than masks. And wait, the government does (or did under realistic people not religious nut jobs) advocate for condoms, so to answer your question, yes I would be okay with that.
And let me get this straight, you're saying stay home to protect yourself, but when it's a necessary trip your take is that they should starve or accept the extreme risk of going to the grocery store so guys like you can... read lips better as opposed to simply wearing masks and minimizing activities for a bit? Do you not see how blatantly selfish that is?
That’s not what I’m saying at all
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That’s not what I’m saying at all
Seems like it. Here's an easy summary
You: people at risk should stay home
Me: grocery store is necessary
You: well then you're making the choice to put yourself at risk so deal with it.
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Let's even just take a step back here and realize that your plan doesn't even account for the massive quantity of people who aren't aware of underlying issues. People going with undiagnosed heart issues, unaware of asthma, "skinny fat" people with fatty liver disease, etc etc etc.
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Seems like it. Here's an easy summary
You: people at risk should stay home
Me: grocery store is necessary
You: well then you're making the choice to put yourself at risk so deal with it.
Not going to lie you’re losing me here with the whole grocery store thing. Aren’t high risk people going to the grocery store now and taking on that risk?
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Let's even just take a step back here and realize that your plan doesn't even account for the massive quantity of people who aren't aware of underlying issues. People going with undiagnosed heart issues, unaware of asthma, "skinny fat" people with fatty liver disease, etc etc etc.
So cause people are walking around with undiagnosed/underlying conditions means what exactly?
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I'm taking the bait here, but why do you minimize/trivialize Covid so much?
You know the reason for that.
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You know the reason for that.
So he/she could respond and make an ass of himself/herself?
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So he/she could respond and make an ass of himself/herself?
Ha ha, this is true. And he didn't disappoint.
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Still confused by WI numbers that continue to go down, with what I see when i go to grab take out on the weekends. Bars are elbow to elbow not a mask in sight. Everyone stares at me as I walk in with my mask on. Just want to flip them all off, but I just grab my food and get out
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It's not just cases and test that are down. Hospitalizations are down 200 from last week (1200) and ICUs are down 27 from last week (292).
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It's not just cases and test that are down. Hospitalizations are down 200 from last week (1200) and ICUs are down 27 from last week (292).
great to see.
Based on what i have seen around my area recently it is not cause people are staying home or masking up when they do go out.
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great to see.
Based on what i have seen around my area recently it is not cause people are staying home or masking up when they do go out.
Anecdotally, I don't have the same experience. I am rarely out, and when I do, I hardly see anywhere near the crowds I would normally. I had to make a run to the local Target for instance, and I told my wife that it would have been dead for a typical Saturday morning much less the Saturday morning before Christmas. And everyone was wearing a mask.
And then there is this.
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1341132925413306368/photo/1
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No time to meet to discuss Covid, though.
Two Republican state lawmakers are suing Gov. Tony Evers as part of a federal lawsuit to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in Wisconsin, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Reps. Jeff Mursau of Crivitz and David Steffen of Howard are plaintiffs in a lawsuit brought in federal court today against officials in all five states.
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No time to meet to discuss Covid, though.
Two Republican state lawmakers are suing Gov. Tony Evers as part of a federal lawsuit to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in Wisconsin, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Reps. Jeff Mursau of Crivitz and David Steffen of Howard are plaintiffs in a lawsuit brought in federal court today against officials in all five states.
This is a great idea, and I'm guessing it will be every bit as successful as the 5 dozen other lawsuits that have gotten laughed at by judges of all political persuasions, including many appointed by the emperor himself.
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State Democrats may skip Assembly Inaguration Ceremony next week as State Republicans are not mandating masks for it saying they are encouraging them but not requiring them:
https://www.fox6now.com/news/wisconsin-democrats-threaten-to-skip-assembly-inauguration?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%20Manual&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0ND4PPgwAtAPbwL9zdO00do0O5VKjVI89H655p87vRHO70i5bztbb4Xng
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With that 33% difference in 7-day death it will only take about 6 years to catch Minnesota in overall deaths.
Looking forward to daily updates for the next 1900+ days
Didn't take 6 years.
As of today, WI has 6,135 deaths, while MN has 6,100.
But both are still WAY too many....
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Didn't take 6 years.
As of today, WI has 6,135 deaths, while MN has 6,100.
But both are still WAY too many....
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Where did you pull your number from? I’ve always used this site which shows Wisconsin death count well below what you posted.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Where did you pull your number from? I’ve always used this site which shows Wisconsin death count well below what you posted.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-us-maps-and-cases/
The numbers are based on the data from Johns Hopkins.
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Didn't take 6 years.
As of today, WI has 6,135 deaths, while MN has 6,100.
But both are still WAY too many....
https://www.wha.org/Covid-19Update
This is the wisconsin hospital association dashboard which shows less then your number above as well. You were way too excited to post what appears to be fake news to “win” a back and forth we had two months ago.
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https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-us-maps-and-cases/
The numbers are based on the data from Johns Hopkins.
Shocker a CNN sourced link isn’t accurate.
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https://www.wha.org/Covid-19Update
This is the wisconsin hospital association dashboard which shows less then your number above as well. You were way too excited to post what appears to be fake news to “win” a back and forth we had two months ago.
For comparison purposes, the Johns Hopkins data is better. They analyze all the different states’ data to reconcile any differences based on disparate definitions or practices.
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For comparison purposes, the Johns Hopkins data is better. They analyze all the different states’ data to reconcile any differences based on disparate definitions or practices.
Sure
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For comparison purposes, the Johns Hopkins data is better. They analyze all the different states’ data to reconcile any differences based on disparate definitions or practices.
Despite our death numbers being better I have changed my mind in that I’d rather ride out the next 6 months really anywhere in the Midwest other then WI being that Evers and his team have been atrocious in the vaccine roll out plan.
I believe we are dead last in the Midwest and what does that get the jet the woman who was in charge of it? A promotion to go work on the Biden team.....good times!
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Sure
Thanks. I know that wasn't easy.
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https://www.wha.org/Covid-19Update
This is the wisconsin hospital association dashboard which shows less then your number above as well. You were way too excited to post what appears to be fake news to “win” a back and forth we had two months ago.
You were wrong again
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For anyone who might doubt the Johns Hopkins numbers, the CDC Covid Data Tracker also lists 6,135 Covid deaths in WI as of the end of reporting yesterday. Select WI from the drop down list, click on the data table, and you'll see the number.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_totalandratedeaths
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The Wisconsin Department of Health Services confirmed 2,070 new cases of COVID-19 and 36 new deaths on January 22. That brings the state’s total number of cases to 530,171 and the total number of deaths to 5,643.
So why are the John’s Hopkins numbers higher for Wisconsin? Where is it getting its data from?
But certainly too damn many by either measure.
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The Wisconsin Department of Health Services confirmed 2,070 new cases of COVID-19 and 36 new deaths on January 22. That brings the state’s total number of cases to 530,171 and the total number of deaths to 5,643.
So why are the John’s Hopkins numbers higher for Wisconsin? Where is it getting its data from?
But certainly too damn many by either measure.
CDC has the same numbers as Johns Hopkins.
As for the difference, it might be the way that WI DHS records causes of deaths (which can be variable from state to state). CDC has a uniform set of guidelines for reporting causes of death that are applied nationally, so this can provide more reliable comparison and trend numbers. Below is a link to the CDC form and instructions:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/blue_form.pdf
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Last week Tier 1A was updated to include paid and unpaid caregivers of special needs kids. As a result my wife and I signed up for the lottery over the weekend based on the Dane County autism services we receive for our son. They pull from that list to fill in slots that remain open to ensure nothing goes unused. We both got emails yesterday that there are openings this week. I'll be going to the Alliant Center today for my first shot. My wife goes on Thursday.
My 80ish yo parents live in Portage. They called the hospital there yesterday and scheduled both shots for both of them, with the first being next week.
I know this is going to a long process, but it seems like there's some movement now outside of the immediate frontline workers.
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My parents, early/mid 70s, were able to get their first shots on Monday (the first day for 65+).
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My parents (late 70s, early 80s) are getting their first shots this morning.
Also a friend of mine who has her elderly mother living with her, was able to get vaccinated last week as an "unpaid caregiver" as well.
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- My Uncle (74) lives at the VA, he has gotten both shots
- My Mom (73) is getting her first one this week
- My Dad (69) is getting his through his employer (nursing home in 2 weeks)...he had been scheduled for awhile and well before my Mom and now my Mom, through her PCP / network of Froedtert, beat him to it.
- My youngest brother (34) has an admin job at the VA. He got his first dose last week. The VA has a separate supply from the state and they had some surpluses so they opened up to employees. My brother tried to pass it off to my parents / his in laws and the VA told him it was him or nothing so he took it.
Both my Uncle and my brother report a number of one off stories about people within the VA ecosystem who have access to the vaccine but are not getting it.
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My fiancé called Milwaukee county health where they said they aren't doing teachers yet. Meanwhile I've read teachers are supposed to prioritized and an aunt in Janesville just got her first dose.
I'm very confused by WI's rollout.
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My fiancé called Milwaukee county health where they said they aren't doing teachers yet. Meanwhile I've read teachers are supposed to prioritized and an aunt in Janesville just got her first dose.
I'm very confused by WI's rollout.
If her aunt got her first dose, it shouldn't be because she is a teacher. They aren't eligible yet. Here is the priority list.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccine-about.htm
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Getting my first jab in 2 hours... so of course it snowed 8 inches.
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I called the WI DHS and they told me MUScoop mods are not essential workers.
That's bullshït.
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I called the WI DHS and they told me MUScoop mods are not essential workers.
That's bullshït.
They heard MUScoop should be shut down.
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I called the WI DHS and they told me MUScoop mods are not essential workers.
That's bullshït.
I read earlier today about some good inter state cooperation: DePaul is allocating 25% of their allotment to the Marquette Men's program. By keeping us alive, they're keeping themselves alive.
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If her aunt got her first dose, it shouldn't be because she is a teacher. They aren't eligible yet. Here is the priority list.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccine-about.htm
Janesville teacheres were vaccinated ahead of schedule:
"Mercyhealth defied state health officials by offering the vaccine to Janesville teachers ahead of schedule after first vaccinating health care and emergency workers."
That is from this article:
https://www.wisn.com/article/janesville-teachers-get-covid-19-vaccine/35294723#
Another article about it:
https://www.wisn.com/article/janesville-school-district-at-odds-with-state-over-vaccination-plans/35231269
In the Waukesha schoool District, staff that works in isolation and Covid rooms were able to get vaccinated recently but the rest of the staff can't get vaccinated for now - the thing I saw is they are targeting March 1st for the next group of people in Wisconsin that includes teachers.
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Janesville teacheres were vaccinated ahead of schedule:
"Mercyhealth defied state health officials by offering the vaccine to Janesville teachers ahead of schedule after first vaccinating health care and emergency workers."
That is from this article:
https://www.wisn.com/article/janesville-teachers-get-covid-19-vaccine/35294723#
Another article about it:
https://www.wisn.com/article/janesville-school-district-at-odds-with-state-over-vaccination-plans/35231269
That explains a lot
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That explains a lot
Yeah I was wondering why Waukesha teachers hadn't been able to get their vaccines yet and they ahd but it made more sense when I read about how it came about for the Janesville teachers getting theirs.
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Janesville teacheres were vaccinated ahead of schedule:
"Mercyhealth defied state health officials by offering the vaccine to Janesville teachers ahead of schedule after first vaccinating health care and emergency workers."
That is from this article:
https://www.wisn.com/article/janesville-teachers-get-covid-19-vaccine/35294723#
Another article about it:
https://www.wisn.com/article/janesville-school-district-at-odds-with-state-over-vaccination-plans/35231269
In the Waukesha schoool District, staff that works in isolation and Covid rooms were able to get vaccinated recently but the rest of the staff can't get vaccinated for now - the thing I saw is they are targeting March 1st for the next group of people in Wisconsin that includes teachers.
Wow. Interesting. Thanks.
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really hope the no mask mandate does not come back to bite this state
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really hope the no mask mandate does not come back to bite this state
I think it will as it's the only thing getting a number of people to wear masks now. I'm not surprised this is happening but very upset about it. At least our school district has its own mask rule - I'm not one who could ever home school but no way in heck am I sending my kids to a school if they don't require masks be worn.
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I think it will as it's the only thing getting a number of people to wear masks now. I'm not surprised this is happening but very upset about it. At least our school district has its own mask rule - I'm not one who could ever home school but no way in heck am I sending my kids to a school if they don't require masks be worn.
It'll be the easiest way to spot a person I'm willing to go the extra mile for. No mask, sorry, can't help you.
It's a really stupid repeal, because as I've mentioned before, more than half the state was just ignoring it anyway.
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It'll be the easiest way to spot a person I'm willing to go the extra mile for. No mask, sorry, can't help you.
It's a really stupid repeal, because as I've mentioned before, more than half the state was just ignoring it anyway.
Your last line makes me hopeful this won’t be a huge negative impact. The people who wear masks will keep doing so, and those that don’t never really did.
Will stores be able to still enforce mask policies?
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Will stores be able to still enforce mask policies?
Yes. No shoes, no shirt, no service.
Also, municipalities can enforce as well.
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Yes. No shoes, no shirt, no service.
Also, municipalities can enforce as well.
Correct. Dane County will still have it for sure. Also, any private business can enforce almost any policy they choose.
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Really dumb political theatre at the worst time.
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I think it will as it's the only thing getting a number of people to wear masks now. I'm not surprised this is happening but very upset about it. At least our school district has its own mask rule - I'm not one who could ever home school but no way in heck am I sending my kids to a school if they don't require masks be worn.
my kids district as well. Glad i just found out i am part of group 1b for being a coach and part time employee of the district. will gladly wear my mask even after i get the vaccine. Things are moving in the right direction so dumb to mess things up now
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my kids district as well. Glad i just found out i am part of group 1b for being a coach and part time employee of the district. will gladly wear my mask even after i get the vaccine. Things are moving in the right direction so dumb to mess things up now
Well, being in the 1b group doesn't sound so hot when there is no vaccine available. I called the clinic yesterday - their response was "don't call us, we'll call you".
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Well, being in the 1b group doesn't sound so hot when there is no vaccine available. I called the clinic yesterday - their response was "don't call us, we'll call you".
What clinic do you go to? I have seen reports of shortages, but none of the health systems where I live have that policy.
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What clinic do you go to? I have seen reports of shortages, but none of the health systems where I live have that policy.
The clinic is part of Ascension in Racine. They say they will call when vaccine is available.
Is there vaccine available in your area? I saw the percentages yesterday and Wisconsin is next to last in the Midwest as far as administering the vaccine. So it would seem that Racine isn't the only problem area?
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‘Don’t call us we’ll call you’ has been the response of my health system and several others in the Chicago area, though a couple have now just started their reach out. Rush is the only one I am aware of that started a couple weeks ago.
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The clinic is part of Ascension in Racine. They say they will call when vaccine is available.
Is there vaccine available in your area? I saw the percentages yesterday and Wisconsin is next to last in the Midwest as far as administering the vaccine. So it would seem that Racine isn't the only problem area?
My health system has online sign up and I know multiple people who have taken advantage of it. They only open slots as they have the ability to fill them though.
I am not disputing your story, I am just surprised at the way they are handling it.
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This review of CDC data ranks states based on the % of doses received that have been administered. ND leads the pack, having administered almost 87% of the doses it has received. Wisconsin is 49th, having administered about 42.5%.
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-covid-19-vaccines-administered.html
Lotta states with work to do, including several here in the Midwest, with IL (48.2%) and MN (47.7%) not a whole lot better than WI.
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This review of CDC data ranks states based on the % of doses received that have been administered. ND leads the pack, having administered almost 87% of the doses it has received. Wisconsin is 49th, having administered about 42.5%.
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-covid-19-vaccines-administered.html
Lotta states with work to do, including several here in the Midwest, with IL (48.2%) and MN (47.7%) not a whole lot better than WI.
Wisconsin hasn't seen the chaos that you have seen from other states. Yeah ultimately they have to get shots into arms, but some deliberate planning isn't a bad thing.
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FBM, I am in two different health systems in the Chicago area, neither is signing anyone up for anything right now, they just tell people to keep checking the app and they will post info about signing up there. A couple others I am aware of just started reaching out to their 1b people about scheduling in the last day or two. But even they are telling their patients that they will be in touch when it’s their turn to schedule, not giving them some kind of list to be on.
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When I say "online sign up," I mean for specific appointments where doses are administrated. Not simply a wait list.
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I had heard Froedtert was starting to get people in the over 65 group but Ascension has not gotten to that point yet.
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My parents are with SSM Health in Madison and they got their shots yesterday.
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Wisconsin hasn't seen the chaos that you have seen from other states. Yeah ultimately they have to get shots into arms, but some deliberate planning isn't a bad thing.
I absolutely agree that planning is good and vaccine free-for-alls are bad.
Still, I have to wonder how much of the lag is 'planning', and how much is confusion and paralysis. Same holds true for most of the states near the bottom.
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I think people can cope better if they know there is some kind of plan, even if it doesn’t have specific dates. I think communication from one of my systems has been woeful, I can’t figure out if they’re planning to offer it to their patients or not, frankly, and that was from one general email where they assured everyone how concerned they are. Their providers are telling people to go to drugstores and supermarkets. The other system has at least been telling people that they are planning regional clinics, but aren’t there yet.
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I got an email from the district with a link to submit a survey. then I got an email reply back saying i would get a call once things are ready for my group. So i did sort of get the dont call us we will call you but it makes sense. The health care providers probably get flooded with calls from people daily asking if they can get the vaccine. March 1 is when my group is supposed to start getting the vaccine. The survey needs to be completed by Feb 3. That gives them a month to get organized. At this point it sounds organized to me
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Rush did something similar. I haven’t seen that from my own two systems, nor have any of my friends reported that.
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I think people can cope better if they know there is some kind of plan, even if it doesn’t have specific dates. I think communication from one of my systems has been woeful, I can’t figure out if they’re planning to offer it to their patients or not, frankly, and that was from one general email where they assured everyone how concerned they are. Their providers are telling people to go to drugstores and supermarkets. The other system has at least been telling people that they are planning regional clinics, but aren’t there yet.
I agree that predictability and communication is important. I haven’t felt the frustration firsthand yet, because I am at the very back of the line so I don’t expect a shot until summer. If I get it earlier, I will consider it a bonus.
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Even though I've said I'm not in a hurry to get jabbed, that right now I'm content to let the high risk/elderly get the first shots, that will change when I'm denied the chance to do something I want to do without showing proof of vaccination. I don't know if it's going to be air travel, going to a Brewers game, Summerfest, or a concert, but I suspect these things may start requiring proof of inoculation at some point.
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My health system has online sign up and I know multiple people who have taken advantage of it. They only open slots as they have the ability to fill them though.
I am not disputing your story, I am just surprised at the way they are handling it.
This is from the Ascension Medical Group - Wisconsin website:
"AMG is in the process of reviewing medical records for all existing patients and contacting all patients who fit the above criteria within Phase 1B to schedule vaccine appointments. Please do not call our hospitals or clinics regarding vaccinations, as vaccines are limited at this time, and AMG will reach out directly to patients who are eligible for the vaccine."
I called anyway and was told - we'll call you.
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This is from the Ascension Medical Group - Wisconsin website:
"AMG is in the process of reviewing medical records for all existing patients and contacting all patients who fit the above criteria within Phase 1B to schedule vaccine appointments. Please do not call our hospitals or clinics regarding vaccinations, as vaccines are limited at this time, and AMG will reach out directly to patients who are eligible for the vaccine."
I called anyway and was told - we'll call you.
I heard that they are bumping everyone that calls in to the bottom of the list.
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my kids district as well. Glad i just found out i am part of group 1b for being a coach and part time employee of the district. will gladly wear my mask even after i get the vaccine. Things are moving in the right direction so dumb to mess things up now
Our District suprised me in a good way toinght with an email explaining that they will continue to have a mask rule no matter what happens with the state mask mandate. And the email also reminded families not to send kids to school when they are sick, Covid positive or if they have Covid positive people in their household - all of those things have already happened this school year.
Glad to hear you will be able to get your vaccine in the next phase.
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Our District suprised me in a good way toinght with an email explaining that they will continue to have a mask rule no matter what happens with the state mask mandate. And the email also reminded families not to send kids to school when they are sick, Covid positive or if they have Covid positive people in their household - all of those things have already happened this school year.
Glad to hear you will be able to get your vaccine in the next phase.
Some people just amaze you. My wife works in the district and a student of hers was out for 4 days and came back to school gave a story that she tested negative for covid that is why she was back. School nurse looked up to find her test results and she had never been tested. The girl told my wife her mom told her to tell the school this so she could go back to school.
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Some people just amaze you. My wife works in the district and a student of hers was out for 4 days and came back to school gave a story that she tested negative for covid that is why she was back. School nurse looked up to find her test results and she had never been tested. The girl told my wife her mom told her to tell the school this so she could go back to school.
This doesn't surprise me at all. I've heard of parents advocating lying about kids' symptoms when you call them in saying they have an injury instead of illness and advocating lying about the start date of symptoms so less kids get quarantined. And many parents won't test their kids and are mad at other parents who do test their kids who have been quarantined due to exposure to a Covid positive person. This is one of the reasons I'm nervous about my kids being back in school in person right now. And I feel bad for the teachers who haven't been able to be vaccinated yet.
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Some people just amaze you. My wife works in the district and a student of hers was out for 4 days and came back to school gave a story that she tested negative for covid that is why she was back. School nurse looked up to find her test results and she had never been tested. The girl told my wife her mom told her to tell the school this so she could go back to school.
Nothing like a crisis to bring out the worst in some people…
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School nurse looked up to find her test results and she had never been tested.
Umm .. not to say the story isn't true, but .. how could a school nurse look up any test results for anyone? I don't believe that's ethically nor legally possible.
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Umm .. not to say the story isn't true, but .. how could a school nurse look up any test results for anyone? I don't believe that's ethically nor legally possible.
That is what i thought but i know things are different with covid. Maybe it is the school gets contacted when someone tests positive or negative and she was not on the list.
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Umm .. not to say the story isn't true, but .. how could a school nurse look up any test results for anyone? I don't believe that's ethically nor legally possible.
Schools routinely get access to students’ vaccination histories, so it isn’t inconceivable that it’s possible for school nurses to have access to Covid test status.
HIPAA has a specific exception that allows disclosure of PHI for public health purposes, and I suspect most (all?) state laws do as well. That could very well be the provision that would apply in a case like this.
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Schools routinely get access to students’ vaccination histories, so it isn’t inconceivable that it’s possible for school nurses to have access to Covid test status.
Not sure about that. Our kids went to a .. co-op type pre-school and parents had to perform duties. My wife collected vaccination records of the students -- but all of the info came from parents.
Totally anecdotal, but any time I think someone should have access to health records, it's always wrong. -- (It's crazy, my son turned 14 and he had to grant us access to his medical records.)
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Not sure about that. Our kids went to a .. co-op type pre-school and parents had to perform duties. My wife collected vaccination records of the students -- but all of the info came from parents.
Totally anecdotal, but any time I think someone should have access to health records, it's always wrong. -- (It's crazy, my son turned 14 and he had to grant us access to his medical records.)
I am.
https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/privacy/guidance/student-immunizations/index.html
Your kids’ school might prefer to get vaccination information from the parents, but it does not have to.
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You and your facts!
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MILWAUKEE (AP) — Alex Lasry, a 33-year-old Milwaukee Bucks executive and son of a billionaire, received the coronavirus vaccine this week at a senior living center in Milwaukee despite not being part of a group currently eligible for the shots in Wisconsin.
Lasry told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he “just got lucky” and didn’t receive any favoritism. Lasry, a New York City native who is a hedge fund manager, is considering running for the U.S. Senate in Wisconsin in 2022. He was also host committee chair for the 2020 Democratic National Convention, which was awarded to Milwaukee but moved online due to the pandemic.
Lasry, the son of Bucks co-owner Marc Lasry, said his wife, Lauren, got a call Monday from her uncle, who is rabbi at Ovation Chai Point Senior Living, saying the senior living center had some extra, unused vaccine doses.
Lasry’s wife, who is pregnant, chose not to get the shot, Lasry told the newspaper. Lasry said he stepped forward so the vaccine wouldn’t go to waste.
Gov. Tony Evers said during a Friday update on Wisconsin’s vaccination efforts that state health officials are encouraging providers to use all the vaccine they have.
“They should just get it in somebody’s arm,” Evers said.
As for Lasry specifically, Evers said he’s not sure what happened. Evers, who is 69, is himself waiting for word on when he can get a shot, since they’re now open to everyone over age 65 in Wisconsin.
Lsary said he didn’t receive special treatment because of his position with the Bucks, his political aspirations or his father’s wealth.
“That has nothing to do with anything,” Lasry said. “Honestly, if I wasn’t married to Lauren, I don’t know that I would have gotten a call or known about it.”
[not sure I would have broadcast it]
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Alex Lasry is an incredibly stupid person.
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Alex Lasry is an incredibly stupid person selfish A-Hole.
FIFY
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Not sure about that. Our kids went to a .. co-op type pre-school and parents had to perform duties. My wife collected vaccination records of the students -- but all of the info came from parents.
Totally anecdotal, but any time I think someone should have access to health records, it's always wrong. -- (It's crazy, my son turned 14 and he had to grant us access to his medical records.)
I asked about this during my 13 year old's well check appointment this summer and they said they used to require kids to give permission for parents to access the medical records at age 14 but during the pandemic their medical system ended up changing that to give parents access to the records until the kids turn 18.
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Remember the Grafton phamacist who destroyed vaccines? Well, FBI documents show that he is a flat-Earther.
Because,... why wouldn't he be?
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Remember the Grafton phamacist who destroyed vaccines? Well, FBI documents show that he is a flat-Earther.
Because,... why wouldn't he be?
Who also claimed that the sky is a shield that the government installed to prevent people from seeing god.
Sounds like he'd be a good fit for Congress.
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The SNL cold open this week with John Krasinski was along these lines.
The skit was titled "What Still Works" and the only thing that "Still Works" in America everyone is rooting against.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LqK8GiIMYw
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Just registered my 65+ year old parents, got appts for one later today and one tomorrow.
https://city.milwaukee.gov/CoronavirusResources/Covid19-Vaccination
***Do need to be an City of MKE resident or City of MKE employee
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Excellent news.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2021/02/08/wisconsin-now-tops-nation-per-capita-daily-covid-19-vaccine-shots/4433825001/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&cid=twitter_journalsentinel
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My friends in Pewaukee finally got scheduled for this week through their fire protection district. A few weeks ago she told me that some mutual friends who also live in the Milwaukee suburbs ended up getting appointments in Sheboygan and Green Bay for later this month.
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Excellent news.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2021/02/08/wisconsin-now-tops-nation-per-capita-daily-covid-19-vaccine-shots/4433825001/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&cid=twitter_journalsentinel
I'm sure that those blaming Evers a couple of weeks ago will now be singing his praise.
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Dane County to finally lift the ban on sports competitions played in the county.
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Dane County to finally lift the ban on sports competitions played in the county.
Fantastic news all the way around, feeling like we’re on the home stretch!!! Glad to see a lot of business restrictions being relaxed as well.
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I'm sure that those blaming Evers a couple of weeks ago will now be singing his praise.
Yes. At least those on the right never lost their integrity.
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Dane County to finally lift the ban on sports competitions played in the county.
Good news. Hopefully Forward Madison will have something resembling a normal season.
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Good news. Hopefully Forward Madison will have something resembling a normal season.
Or become the Hart Park Freights....
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Milwaukee County Rec Dept just cancelled its entire summer softball season.
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Milwaukee County Rec Dept just cancelled its entire summer softball season.
Really? That seems like an overreaction.
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Keep on livin' in yo hidey-hole, dumb chits, hey?
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Really? That seems like an overreaction.
That does seem like a lot. I wonder if they are concerned about the likelihood that we won’t have herd immunity until this fall at the earliest.
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That does seem like a lot. I wonder if they are concerned about the likelihood that we won’t have herd immunity until this fall at the earliest.
For outdoor sports? Where the risk of transmission is near zero (UW study)?
Keep up the fear porn, I'm getting close.
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For outdoor sports? Where the risk of transmission is near zero (UW study)?
Keep up the fear porn, I'm getting close.
I just raised it as a question. I started by saying that it does seem like a lot.
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That does seem like a lot. I wonder if they are concerned about the likelihood that we won’t have herd immunity until this fall at the earliest.
Yeah don’t think they are basing it on anything scientific. Seems like a complete overreaction.
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Yeah don’t think they are basing it on anything scientific. Seems like a complete overreaction.
It seems as simple as a municipality not wanting to take on the liability of someone contracting/dying of covid for what is supposed to be "recreation". Lawyers eat that kind of stuff for lunch. That'd be my guess.
edit: that said, BC83 may have received a private email or something about it, but I don't see it posted to their webpage or social media yet.
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It seems as simple as a municipality not wanting to take on the liability of someone contracting/dying of covid for what is supposed to be "recreation". Lawyers eat that kind of stuff for lunch. That'd be my guess.
edit: that said, BC83 may have received a private email or something about it, but I don't see it posted to their webpage or social media yet.
Governmental immunity, kin.
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Governmental immunity, kin.
Not quite that simple, kin.
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I bet they're canceling to try and stop all those people from going to bars after games.
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Not quite that simple, kin.
In Wisconsin it is. $750k max liability
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In Wisconsin it is. $750k max liability
Two questions...
Is that $750k per incident? If so, it could grow larger.
Do municipalities insure against this liability? If so, the insurance company could be telling them to cancel this year.
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In Wisconsin it is. $750k max liability
Liability != Immunity
Do municipalities insure against this liability? If so, the insurance company could be telling them to cancel this year.
Most *should* carry liability insurance, and if the insurer didn't already excluded pandemic coverage after sars, they likely updated the policies this year to specifically excluded them.
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In Wisconsin it is. $750k max liability
What? The damages cap in Wisconsin for claims against governmental entities is $50,000 per claimant, unless the claim arises out of the municipality's vehicle (snow plows, squad cars, etc.) where it increases to $250,000 per claimant. See Wis. Stat. Sec. 893.80 and 345.05.
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What? The damages cap in Wisconsin for claims against governmental entities is $50,000 per claimant, unless the claim arises out of the municipality's vehicle (snow plows, squad cars, etc.) where it increases to $250,000 per claimant. See Wis. Stat. Sec. 893.80 and 345.05.
Thanks for the correction, Sir.
Medical malpractice is capped at $750k per claim for state employed (UW Health) doctors.
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It seems as simple as a municipality not wanting to take on the liability of someone contracting/dying of covid for what is supposed to be "recreation". Lawyers eat that kind of stuff for lunch. That'd be my guess.
edit: that said, BC83 may have received a private email or something about it, but I don't see it posted to their webpage or social media yet.
The Rec Department posted it on their Facebook page Monday morning.
Milwaukee County Parks Organized Sports
February 8 at 10:39 AM
It comes with great disappointment once again to announce we will not be offering the spring/summer softball league 2021 season due to the continued fluid situation with COVID-19. We are hoping that we will be able to have fall sports leagues starting in August. Stay tuned for confirmation on the fall enrollment status.
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Future meat summits:
https://www.nbc15.com/2021/02/05/men-in-assisted-living-facility-open-their-own-bar-to-get-through-quarantine/ (https://www.nbc15.com/2021/02/05/men-in-assisted-living-facility-open-their-own-bar-to-get-through-quarantine/)
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It appears that we finally have the virus under control here in Wisconsin. Almost two weeks since we've had a day with over 1,000 new infections, and trending downwards. Hopefully this extreme cold snap has managed to tamp down the spread even more! Lower numbers will allow us to contact trace better, and hopefully maintain lower spread. Marry that with Wisconsin having an incredible vaccination rate, and I think it's fair to say that while it took a long time, and a rough Nov/Dec, Wisconsin finally has its shit together.
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It appears that we finally have the virus under control here in Wisconsin. Almost two weeks since we've had a day with over 1,000 new infections, and trending downwards. Hopefully this extreme cold snap has managed to tamp down the spread even more! Lower numbers will allow us to contact trace better, and hopefully maintain lower spread. Marry that with Wisconsin having an incredible vaccination rate, and I think it's fair to say that while it took a long time, and a rough Nov/Dec, Wisconsin finally has its shit together.
👏👏
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Honestly, I think it's less getting our act together and more .. COVID is running out of dry timber.
561k positive tests to date .. probably more like 1.5m people have had it and didn't get tested, plus another 1.2m have had the vaccine .. that's 47% who COVID can't touch.
Add in half+ the population who are staying at home, masking up, doing the right thing .. there's just not very many people COVID can easily infect.
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Honestly, I think it's less getting our act together and more .. COVID is running out of dry timber.
561k positive tests to date .. probably more like 1.5m people have had it and didn't get tested, plus another 1.2m have had the vaccine .. that's 47% who COVID can't touch.
Add in half+ the population who are staying at home, masking up, doing the right thing .. there's just not very many people COVID can easily infect.
I think you are right. The numbers have been going down throughout the country, and particularly in the upper Midwest. When I see even North Dakota’s numbers going down, it has to be more than just “getting our act together.“
Either way, it’s great to see the numbers going down. In Wisconsin, North Dakota, Minnesota, and throughout the country.
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I think people have stopped gathering in groups since Christmas. Pretty simple explanation IMO.
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"Add in half+ the population who are staying at home, masking up, doing the right thing .. there's just not very many people COVID can easily infect."
with all due respect hill, staying at home & masking up? unless one is very compromised, just delaying the inevitable. someone has to go out sometime. one could asymptomatically carry it back to the hive and all bets are off. masks are not a guarantee. zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, exercise, good diet, vaccine
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"Add in half+ the population who are staying at home, masking up, doing the right thing .. there's just not very many people COVID can easily infect."
with all due respect hill, staying at home & masking up? unless one is very compromised, just delaying the inevitable. someone has to go out sometime. one could asymptomatically carry it back to the hive and all bets are off. masks are not a guarantee. zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, exercise, good diet, vaccine
Don’t forget hydroxy.
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Don’t forget hydroxy.
hards? is that you?
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I think people have stopped gathering in groups since Christmas. Pretty simple explanation IMO.
You are living under a rock if you think this is true.
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I think people have stopped gathering in groups since Christmas. Pretty simple explanation IMO.
That’s been the scenario for us. We went on a few walks and saw some friends outside and felt like it was the first time socializing in months.
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You are living under a rock if you think this is true.
i was gonna say the same-people are so done with the bs...hell the emmy award winning gold standard is playing strip poker and doing "pat downs". ya gotta figure the one or two mask have to eventually come off also if they play according to the rules. but social distancing part would defeat the whole purpose though, eyn'a?
isn't this all a fowski no-no? well today it is, but since fredo is one of his team guys and paisan he'll give him a pass
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Honestly, I think it's less getting our act together and more .. COVID is running out of dry timber.
561k positive tests to date .. probably more like 1.5m people have had it and didn't get tested, plus another 1.2m have had the vaccine .. that's 47% who COVID can't touch.
Add in half+ the population who are staying at home, masking up, doing the right thing .. there's just not very many people COVID can easily infect.
Por que no los dos? hards? is that you?
Just say it doesn't work, rocket. Make peace with it, and rejoin the rest of society.
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i was gonna say the same-people are so done with the bs...hell the emmy award winning gold standard is playing strip poker and doing "pat downs". ya gotta figure the one or two mask have to eventually come off also if they play according to the rules. but social distancing part would defeat the whole purpose though, eyn'a?
isn't this all a fowski no-no? well today it is, but since fredo is one of his team guys and paisan he'll give him a pass
You should use a random word generator when you post. It would make more sense.
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You are living under a rock if you think this is true.
Maybe. Maybe not. I am basing it on anecdotal evidence and it logically makes sense.
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zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, exercise, good diet, vaccine
"Healthcare professional" strikes again.
New research looks at effectiveness of Zinc, Vitamin C in fighting off COVID-19
Updated
https://abc11.com/zinc-vitamin-c-covid-19-cure-all/10369437/
"Sorry to break it to you, but Zinc and Vitamin C aren't going to cure you of COVID-19.
With any sickness, somebody is sure to tell you that supplements like Zinc and Vitamin C are just the thing you need to kick that crud to the curb and get back to good health.
But new, quality research shows those supplements have no significant impact in reducing severity or duration of COVID-19.
"In this randomized control trial, which is the purest form of science out there, what we were able to show that Zinc, or Vitamin C, or the combination of the two, did not reduce disease severity in outpatients that are affected by COVID-19," Cleveland Clinic's Dr. Milind Desai said."
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"Healthcare professional" strikes again.
New research looks at effectiveness of Zinc, Vitamin C in fighting off COVID-19
Updated
https://abc11.com/zinc-vitamin-c-covid-19-cure-all/10369437/
"Sorry to break it to you, but Zinc and Vitamin C aren't going to cure you of COVID-19.
With any sickness, somebody is sure to tell you that supplements like Zinc and Vitamin C are just the thing you need to kick that crud to the curb and get back to good health.
But new, quality research shows those supplements have no significant impact in reducing severity or duration of COVID-19.
"In this randomized control trial, which is the purest form of science out there, what we were able to show that Zinc, or Vitamin C, or the combination of the two, did not reduce disease severity in outpatients that are affected by COVID-19," Cleveland Clinic's Dr. Milind Desai said."
Damn well that was a waste of a lot of zinc and vitamin C then. At least D3 isn't being questioned.
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i was gonna say the same-people are so done with the bs...hell the emmy award winning gold standard is playing strip poker and doing "pat downs". ya gotta figure the one or two mask have to eventually come off also if they play according to the rules. but social distancing part would defeat the whole purpose though, eyn'a?
isn't this all a fowski no-no? well today it is, but since fredo is one of his team guys and paisan he'll give him a pass
Sometimes I wonder what in the world you're trying to say, and then I catch myself realizing I'm better off not knowing. You're like a cartoon character who just utters jibberish and some characters play along with it.
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i don't believe i said "cure" but if i did, allow me to amend to diminish chances of getting covid or diminishing the severity of the symptoms.
also, as with many issues, cures, remedies, snake oils, all things covid-19, this is an evolving medical issue. we haven't had the proper and/or usual time to conduct double blinds with everything, so much of many of the antidotes or adjunctive treatments are somewhat anecdotal. as usual, there are many studies out there that can support the cases for/against the treatments. some doc observed different responses to treatments that they don't fully understand as well. the reasons for the extra hype with zinc, vitamin c et.al. have to do with deductive reasoning as well as direct observations with some patients. anti-inflammatory, pro-immune system etc
this has been a unique and complicated virus thrust upon us but screaming for some kind of treatments NOW due to the pandemic affects. some stuff worked on some while not on others. timing of the treaments varied as well.
my dad, should have died from covid(post stroke, heart failure, high blood pressure, lack of mobility, heart arrythmia, pacemakers, and he should have suffered harsher side effects to the vaccine...but didn't. supposedly healthy people have died. these are the wide ranges of S & S's we are trying to make sense out of
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i don't believe i said "cure" but if i did, allow me to amend to diminish chances of getting covid or diminishing the severity of the symptoms.
Literally the quote was: ""In this randomized control trial, which is the purest form of science out there, what we were able to show that Zinc, or Vitamin C, or the combination of the two, did not reduce disease severity in outpatients that are affected by COVID-19," Cleveland Clinic's Dr. Milind Desai said."
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Damn well that was a waste of a lot of zinc and vitamin C then. At least D3 isn't being questioned.
Not so fast, my friend.
The study showed that zinc and Vitamin C didn't reduce the severity of the illness in confirmed cases. But it did not disprove the theory that they can help prevent a person who is exposed to the virus from getting sick in the first place.
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i don't believe i said "cure" but if i did, allow me to amend to diminish chances of getting covid or diminishing the severity of the symptoms.
also, as with many issues, cures, remedies, snake oils, all things covid-19, this is an evolving medical issue. we haven't had the proper and/or usual time to conduct double blinds with everything, so much of many of the antidotes or adjunctive treatments are somewhat anecdotal. as usual, there are many studies out there that can support the cases for/against the treatments. some doc observed different responses to treatments that they don't fully understand as well. the reasons for the extra hype with zinc, vitamin c et.al. have to do with deductive reasoning as well as direct observations with some patients. anti-inflammatory, pro-immune system etc
this has been a unique and complicated virus thrust upon us but screaming for some kind of treatments NOW due to the pandemic affects. some stuff worked on some while not on others. timing of the treaments varied as well.
my dad, should have died from covid(post stroke, heart failure, high blood pressure, lack of mobility, heart arrythmia, pacemakers, and he should have suffered harsher side effects to the vaccine...but didn't. supposedly healthy people have died. these are the wide ranges of S & S's we are trying to make sense out of
Well said.
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Not so fast, my friend.
The study showed that zinc and Vitamin C didn't reduce the severity of the illness in confirmed cases. But it did not disprove the theory that they can help prevent a person who is exposed to the virus from getting sick in the first place.
So on a related note, should I stop taking zinc and vit C before my second vaccine March 10?
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So on a related note, should I stop taking zinc and vit C before my second vaccine March 10?
Make sure you get 9+ hours of sleep 3 days before and 3 days after. Seriously. It significantly impacts the body's immune response
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Make sure you get 9+ hours of sleep 3 days before and 3 days after. Seriously. It significantly impacts the body's immune response
I'll be sure to take my melatonin.
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So on a related note, should I stop taking zinc and vit C before my second vaccine March 10?
Nope. You want to keep taking them for the same reason you want to get a good night's sleep - they bolster the immune system to promote a robust response to the vaccine.
It might result in you feeling crappy for about a day...but that's actually a sign that your body is building up a healthy immunity to the virus. And there's a good chance you might feel crappy after the second dose regardless....
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Not so fast, my friend.
The study showed that zinc and Vitamin C didn't reduce the severity of the illness in confirmed cases. But it did not disprove the theory that they can help prevent a person who is exposed to the virus from getting sick in the first place.
thank you-this was probably the short version of what i was trying to say
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Well said.
thank you hard man!
btw way, getting vaccine #2 in about 2 hours-moderna-did not feel much of anything post #1. not sure if it's related, but later the evening of #1, i was getting separate "shock-like" pulses in my elbow for a few hours that were absent upon waking the next morning-that's all
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thank you hard man!
btw way, getting vaccine #2 in about 2 hours-moderna-did not feel much of anything post #1. not sure if it's related, but later the evening of #1, i was getting separate "shock-like" pulses in my elbow for a few hours that were absent upon waking the next morning-that's all
Good, glad to hear it! I got Pfizer #2 about 10 days ago and had no noticeable side effects.
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Surprised .. Mrs. Hilltopper is a teacher, and that group is green lit as of next Monday.
Somehow, a student's parent works for a pharmacy and the school district got in touch. The pharmacy offered and set up a clinic for the district's teachers, next week.
Sound totally lucky? Yeah. It's just crazy how these things are slap-dash rolled out.
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Surprised .. Mrs. Hilltopper is a teacher, and that group is green lit as of next Monday.
Somehow, a student's parent works for a pharmacy and the school district got in touch. The pharmacy offered and set up a clinic for the district's teachers, next week.
Sound totally lucky? Yeah. It's just crazy how these things are slap-dash rolled out.
Whatever works
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Surprised .. Mrs. Hilltopper is a teacher, and that group is green lit as of next Monday.
Somehow, a student's parent works for a pharmacy and the school district got in touch. The pharmacy offered and set up a clinic for the district's teachers, next week.
Sound totally lucky? Yeah. It's just crazy how these things are slap-dash rolled out.
Great news, as long as the teachers don't all think they will get vaccinated immediately. I got my 1st shot Wednesday at Walgreens. The guy in charge said they only find out weekly how many doses, if any, that they will get that week. The obvious problem as we go along is that they have to make sure to have enough doses for 2nd shots first. So, if they get 200 doses next week, a good portion of those will go for 2nd shots.
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Good, glad to hear it! I got Pfizer #2 about 10 days ago and had no noticeable side effects.
my younger bro, the pharmacist at merriter, got really really really sick after pfizer #2. he's probably the most healthy, physically fit, clean living guy in our family. 2 weeks of agony. at first he thought he had appendicitis. they took a few scans, saw an embolism?, lower right quadrant abdominal area. he is by NO means a pill popper but vicodin was ONLY thing that gave him SOME relief. he wasn't going to go to anything stronger than that as he was trying to work thru it. he would limit himself to 1/2 during day and 1 at night to get some sleep. then weaned back to 1 at night. he said it had to be a perfect storm of something
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Some Republican lawmakers are refusing to wear masks. But there is a requirement that male lawmakers wear jackets - glad they have their priorities straight - not...
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2021/02/25/some-wisconsin-republican-lawmakers-refuse-wear-face-masks-capitol-during-legislature/4496557001/
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WI ranks #1 in vaccine supply usage. Currently shotting 43k per day. Nice job.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/
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Wisconsin's next phase begins March 29, now vaccines for people with health issues.
One of them is BMI => 25, because that's overweight.
That's nuts. I'm right at 25. Yeah, I've been meaning to lose a dozen pounds for a few years, but besides that spare tire, my doc calls me "well nourished."
On the bright side, all my snacks have finally paid off. I better not lose a few before March 29th.
Why yes, I /will/ upgrade that Beef n Cheddar to giant, thank you for looking out for me.
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The Arby's love finally pays off.
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The Arby's love finally pays off.
Pfft. It always pays off.
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I better not lose a few before March 29th.
Wear baggy clothes and put some rocks in your pockets. That's my plan.
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Wisconsin is not requiring documentation of the medical conditions. Just attestation.
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Pfft. It always pays off.
https://www.foxnews.com/health/illinois-arbys-restaurant-linked-to-nearly-100-norovirus-cases
This won't help you make weight. (Thanks, Lurch)
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https://www.foxnews.com/health/illinois-arbys-restaurant-linked-to-nearly-100-norovirus-cases
This won't help you make weight. (Thanks, Lurch)
That's called the Arby's Diet. Some Instagrammer is probably making a fortune on it.
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Wow BMI > 25 isn’t even obese, just overweight.
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Wow BMI > 25 isn’t even obese, just overweight.
What if your BMI is 40? That’s >25. :P According to my scale, a BMI of >30 is obese.
On aside note, much like the guy in Airplane! I picked a bad time to go on a diet.
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What if your BMI is 40?
Have an ambulance service on speed dial.
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Ok you’re right I worded that badly😁
I left out the a BMI over 25 but under 30 part 🙄
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Wisconsin just moved 1c up to Monday, 3/22. I snagged an appointment for that afternoon.
Now I just need to keep my BMI at 25 until then. Arby's, here I come.
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Wisconsin just moved 1c up to Monday, 3/22. I snagged an appointment for that afternoon.
Now I just need to keep my BMI at 25 until then. Arby's, here I come.
Extra curly fries, hey?
Congrats!
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Wisconsin just moved 1c up to Monday, 3/22. I snagged an appointment for that afternoon.
Now I just need to keep my BMI at 25 until then. Arby's, here I come.
I was thinking they might move it up as it seems like there are a ton of appointments to be had for this week - seems like way more appointments than there are 1A and 1B eligible people left who haven't gotten the vaccine yet and want it. I also got an appointment for Monday afternoon - happy to be getting it done a week earlier now.
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Wisconsin just moved 1c up to Monday, 3/22. I snagged an appointment for that afternoon.
Now I just need to keep my BMI at 25 until then. Arby's, here I come.
Make weight, then run laps in a heated wrestling room with garbage bags on.
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Make weight, then run laps in a heated wrestling room with garbage bags on.
I knew a wrestler guy in HS who carried a jar all day, spitting.
Every tenth of an ounce counts.
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FYI—was able to schedule an appointment at the wisconsin center for next week with the new guidelines
https://wi-telegov.egov.com/milwaukee-vaccines
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UWM and Aurora are putting on a clinic at their Union. Lots of timeslots available, and they'll schedule the second dose before you leave.
https://uwm.edu/coronavirus/vaccine-clinic/
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Tommy Thompson said early on the UW System schools were going to be locations for mass vaccine clinics. Great move by him.
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FYI—was able to schedule an appointment at the wisconsin center for next week with the new guidelines
https://wi-telegov.egov.com/milwaukee-vaccines
I'm going there this weekend - I've heard they have a real efficient operation going there.
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Got my vaccination at Froedert's clinic. Extremely efficient, I don't think I waited more than 10 seconds at any station.
They asked zero questions about my eligibility.
But .. the gal stuck me and I felt nothing. Then she said she didn't know where to put the bandaid as I had no drops of blood. -- (The higher your BAC .. Blood Arby's Content .. the less it wants to leave your body.)
She double checked the syringe to make sure it was empty though.
I feel no soreness an hour later. So .. I got the shot, maybe.
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So .. I got the shot, maybe.
Very reassuring! Which flavor?
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Very reassuring! Which flavor?
Pfizer.
That reminds me, when I'm at the dentist and getting my teeth polished they ask me what flavor. I usually ask for gravy.
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Pfizer.
That reminds me, when I'm at the dentist and getting my teeth polished they ask me what flavor. I usually ask for gravy.
Horsey sauce.
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Got my vaccination at Froedert's clinic. Extremely efficient, I don't think I waited more than 10 seconds at any station.
They asked zero questions about my eligibility.
But .. the gal stuck me and I felt nothing. Then she said she didn't know where to put the bandaid as I had no drops of blood. -- (The higher your BAC .. Blood Arby's Content .. the less it wants to leave your body.)
She double checked the syringe to make sure it was empty though.
I feel no soreness an hour later. So .. I got the shot, maybe.
For what it’s worth, I didn’t really feel anything with my first dose of Pfizer either. It’s a really small dose through a really small needle. When I pressed down on the spot later, I could tell I had gotten something, but it wasn’t really soreness; more like just a sensation that something had been put there.
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For what it’s worth, I didn’t really feel anything with my first dose of Pfizer either. It’s a really small dose through a really small needle. When I pressed down on the spot later, I could tell I had gotten something, but it wasn’t really soreness; more like just a sensation that something had been put there.
That's definitely the microchip.
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That's definitely the microchip.
😂😂😂
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My arm is now very ouchy. The nanoprobes are turning me into a Borg by the hour.
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My arm is now very ouchy. The nanoprobes are turning me into a Borg by the hour.
How is your 5G reception? Gotten better yet?
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Got my first dose of Pfizer today
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Got my moderna nanochip today. Already picking up Bill Gates on 5G.
We are down to 12 people in ICUs the hospital in Dane Co today. So we got that going for us.
Edited.
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Got my moderna nanochip today. Already picking up Bill Gates on 5G.
We are down to 12 people in ICUs in Dane Co today. So we got that going for us.
Good stuff.
Finally dump out all that hydroxy, eh?
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Good stuff.
Finally dump out all that hydroxy, eh?
1 year covid free. It worked.
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1 year covid free. It worked.
I've also determined that beer works to avoid covid. And pizza. Shocked at how people didn't figure this out earlier.
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I've also determined that beer works to avoid covid. And pizza. Shocked at how people didn't figure this out earlier.
In Dr. Rocky we trust!
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2nd dose of Pfizer today. No effects for my wife or me.
Arm is not sore like it was after 1st shot.
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2nd dose of Pfizer today. No effects for my wife or me.
Arm is not sore like it was after 1st shot.
You got the placebo!
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https://twitter.com/TosaAmyLee/status/1375131515307319296?s=20
Amy Lindner
@TosaAmyLee
Local vaccine option--TODAY:
The Gerald L Ignace Indian Health Clinic (GLIIHC), has over a 1000 doses of Pfizer vaccine and only a few hundred recipients scheduled. They are looking for people to vaccinate. They have opened up to walk-ins today. Must be scheduled for today.
Amy Lindner
@TosaAmyLee
·
46m
Replying to
@TosaAmyLee
No restrictions on age, race, pre-existing condition or zip code. They will schedule 2nd dose at the time of vaccination. They are open until 7:00 pm.
Must call 414-316-3737 to schedule.
Gerald L. Ignace Indian Health Clinic (GLIIHC)
930 W Historic Mitchell Street, Milwaukee WI.
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I feel that we are at the point that it should just be opened up to everyone.
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I feel that we are at the point that it should just be opened up to everyone.
A lot of states are going that route.
I'm guessing Evers gives it til the end of next week, just to see how supply is keeping up now that 70+ percent of the state is eligible.
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I got emails from both Dane Co and UW Health today to register to schedule.
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I feel that we are at the point that it should just be opened up to everyone.
Rumor is that the MN Governor is announcing this tomorrow, with vaccines open to everyone next Tuesday.
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CT just pulled their 16+ date up to 4/1 from a few days later in April. Seems to be the strategy now that the supply is really flowing.
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A lot of states are going that route.
I'm guessing Evers gives it til the end of next week, just to see how supply is keeping up now that 70+ percent of the state is eligible.
Record number of doses in Wisconsin next week - about 350,000. Time to open it up. I agree with you - I expect Evers to announce something next week.
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Record number of doses in Wisconsin next week - about 350,000. Time to open it up. I agree with you - I expect Evers to announce something next week.
Yeah I expect it to be happening soon. And I hope it does as I worry about doses going to waste now. In the greater Milwaukee area there are a lot of appointments available right now for eligible people. And I'm reading about a number of locations who are not filling a lot of their appointment times too. As someone who qualified in 1C, I had my choice of many different places to get an appointment pretty easily within the first week of eligibility in the greater Milwaukee area.
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https://twitter.com/TosaAmyLee/status/1375131515307319296?s=20
Amy Lindner
@TosaAmyLee
Local vaccine option--TODAY:
The Gerald L Ignace Indian Health Clinic (GLIIHC), has over a 1000 doses of Pfizer vaccine and only a few hundred recipients scheduled. They are looking for people to vaccinate. They have opened up to walk-ins today. Must be scheduled for today.
Amy Lindner
@TosaAmyLee
·
46m
Replying to
@TosaAmyLee
No restrictions on age, race, pre-existing condition or zip code. They will schedule 2nd dose at the time of vaccination. They are open until 7:00 pm.
Must call 414-316-3737 to schedule.
Gerald L. Ignace Indian Health Clinic (GLIIHC)
930 W Historic Mitchell Street, Milwaukee WI.
I saw this posted in a number of places today. It seemed too good to be true and it apparently was. I read a post later from the Gerald L. Ignace Indian Health Clinic on Facebook saying this information was indeed false.
I know a number of people who don't qualify yet who really want their vaccine. I hope Wisconsin opens it up to everyone soon.
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And I hope it does as I worry about doses going to waste now.
That's not happening (at least in large scale). They go through vials one at a time, keeping them in the deep freeze until needed. If there's not enough appointments, or a few no-shows and they have doses left in a vial, they start calling their waitlist - and nearly everyone has a list a mile long.
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That's not happening (at least in large scale). They go through vials one at a time, keeping them in the deep freeze until needed. If there's not enough appointments, or a few no-shows and they have doses left in a vial, they start calling their waitlist - and nearly everyone has a list a mile long.
You are correct. Unfilled appointments doesn't necessarily mean wasted vaccine.
Still, it does mean we aren't moving toward herd immunity as quickly as we could. If places are seeing unfilled slots and they can't fill them from waitlists (or if it takes significant time to call through the waitlists), it's a clear sign they should broaden the eligibility criteria.
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You are correct. Unfilled appointments doesn't necessarily mean wasted vaccine.
Still, it does mean we aren't moving toward herd immunity as quickly as we could. If places are seeing unfilled slots and they can't fill them from waitlists (or if it takes significant time to call through the waitlists), it's a clear sign they should broaden the eligibility criteria.
The other issue with waiting lists is I think a lot of them are filled with people who have already been vaccinated. I was unsuccessful getting on a lot of waiting lists earlier this month because most places I reached out to would only put you on a waiting list if you were already eligible. I got on some lists but have since gotten my vaccine but found no way to remove my name from any of the online sign-ups I did. Most people I know who are eligible have already gotten their first dose now - the people I know who really want to get the vaccine aren't eligible yet and not necessarily able to get on a lot of waiting lists for that reason.
But yes the original point in response to my other post about appointments not being filled doesn't necessarily mean waste is correct.
I think it's tougher to get appointments now in other parts of the state but there are a lot of openings in the Milwaukee area.
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I got the J&J yesterday at the MKE County sports complex. They did call an ambulance to take transport a woman having some reaction but she looked OK, probably being overly cautious.
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https://www.channel3000.com/first-case-of-brazilian-covid-19-variant-found-in-wisconsin-7-day-vaccination-average-nearly-48000-doses-per-day/
Now we've got UK, SA, and Brazilian variants flying aroud. Not good. Get your vaccines as soon as you possibly can.
not awesome.
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https://www.channel3000.com/first-case-of-brazilian-covid-19-variant-found-in-wisconsin-7-day-vaccination-average-nearly-48000-doses-per-day/
Now we've got UK, SA, and Brazilian variants flying aroud. Not good. Get your vaccines as soon as you possibly can.
not awesome.
But so many people are choosing not to get vaccinated :(.
I was thrilled to get my first dose on Saturday.
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I don't know how you counter the vaccine hesitancy. I was talking with my colleague and she's dead set against it. Countered every objection and it didn't matter.
Now going through it with my parents. It's so maddening.
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I don't know how you counter the vaccine hesitancy. I was talking with my colleague and she's dead set against it. Countered every objection and it didn't matter.
Now going through it with my parents. It's so maddening.
We just had an informal poll in our work group. All but one currently eligible has got at least one. The hold out is due to availability, not unwillingness. Happy I work with smart folks.
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My company is being very vocal about promoting the vaccine, having people post pictures of themselves getting the vaccine on internal social media and posting common language medical education on the vaccine. I think we all have a responsibility to be ambassadors here in society. I understand hesitancy. Sometimes positive peer pressure is what’s needed to counteract what folks find on the web.
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We just had an informal poll in our work group. All but one currently eligible has got at least one. The hold out is due to availability, not unwillingness. Happy I work with smart folks.
You are weighing down the average, flyer. ;D
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We just had an informal poll in our work group. All but one currently eligible has got at least one. The hold out is due to availability, not unwillingness. Happy I work with smart folks.
I just filled out a survey at work that asked if I wanted to be part of a pilot group to return to the office early. My response was heck no - I think a lot of people aren't getting the vaccine and working at home is working just fine - feel no need to rush back into the office.
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I don't know how you counter the vaccine hesitancy. I was talking with my colleague and she's dead set against it. Countered every objection and it didn't matter.
Now going through it with my parents. It's so maddening.
You can't have a rational conversation with an anti-vaxxer. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law are refusing. When I said that we are in this together and need to do our part, her response was ..., to start crying about how mean people are being to them.
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You can't have a rational conversation with an anti-vaxxer. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law are refusing. When I said that we are in this together and need to do our part, her response was ..., to start crying about how mean people are being to them.
I hoped you laughed in their faces. Tell them to send you any data they have that vaccines are dangerous. And that you'd be happy to read it and then file it appropriately... In the trash with the National Enquirer.
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You are weighing down the average, flyer. ;D
My coworkers would wholeheartedly disagree with you. FIFM. ;D
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I hoped you laughed in their faces. Tell them to send you any data they have that vaccines are dangerous. And that you'd be happy to read it and then file it appropriately... In the trash with the National Enquirer.
They don’t need facts. They have their “feelings”. :-\ :-\
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My guess is ~40% (tops) of the people I work with will get the vaccine. Most limit their mask wearing and frequently hang out in bars. Fortunately, I’ve dodged the bullet so far. #2 on Monday evening.
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We have been very careful. Only have done carryout about three times since last Feb. Tonight my wife really wanted pizza so I said I would go. The place where we got it was packed. And since it was a restaurant not many masks. I felt uncomfortable. I think it will take a long while before I feel "normal" again. Three weeks to dose number two..... Cannot come quick enough.
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We have been very careful. Only have done carryout about three times since last Feb. Tonight my wife really wanted pizza so I said I would go. The place where we got it was packed. And since it was a restaurant not many masks. I felt uncomfortable. I think it will take a long while before I feel "normal" again. Three weeks to dose number two..... Cannot come quick enough.
I feel ya, SERocks. It was a very liberating feeling walking out from the 2nd shot on Wednesday. Another week or so to take full effect and it is time to rock.
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Still going to mask up to be polite.
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Still going to mask up to be polite.
Same here - indoors.
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You can't have a rational conversation with an anti-vaxxer. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law are refusing. When I said that we are in this together and need to do our part, her response was ..., to start crying about how mean people are being to them.
gee, someone has a different opinion than you? whodathunk?? i got the vaccine, but i respect those who have their own thoughts and opinions. please don't cancel them out like everything is getting today. this is more complicated than "we are in this together bull hockey. get the damn vaccine and move on
why haven't we demanded that teachers who don't want to go back to work just not be paid? give that money to the parents who have been doing the bulk of the education, staying home from work, getting tutors, etc. as i said, i respect people who are seriously afraid of catching the virus, but they are just as essential as doctors, store workers, and everything else that has had to be open. if you are afraid to teach in person with all the safe guards in place and the science telling us that children are the least of our worries, fine, stay home, but they should not be getting paid. you take away their pay, i'm sure there would be a whole different attitude
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We have been very careful. Only have done carryout about three times since last Feb. Tonight my wife really wanted pizza so I said I would go. The place where we got it was packed. And since it was a restaurant not many masks. I felt uncomfortable. I think it will take a long while before I feel "normal" again. Three weeks to dose number two..... Cannot come quick enough.
I feel your pain. My second dose is on Wednesday, and I am really looking forward to mid-April so I can start to feel semi-comfortable when I go out among the unmasked hordes.
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Still going to mask up to be polite.
Absolutely. Even after I am two weeks out from my second dose, I will mask up as long as CDC recommends it (and possibly longer). A small price to pay for both me and those around me to feel more comfortable.
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gee, someone has a different opinion than you? whodathunk?? i got the vaccine, but i respect those who have their own thoughts and opinions. please don't cancel them out like everything is getting today. this is more complicated than "we are in this together bull hockey. get the damn vaccine and move on
It really isn't that difficult. Vaccines of all types should be mandatory for children and adults to be part of society. This isn't an "opinion" issue.
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Absolutely. Even after I am two weeks out from my second dose, I will mask up as long as CDC recommends it (and possibly longer). A small price to pay for both me and those around me to feel more comfortable.
Yes I've gotten quite used to wearing masks and am more than happy to do so to be considerate of others also.
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I don’t personally know any anti-vac wes, at least not among the people I am in regular contact with, but how do they think we get out of this otherwise, or do they also not believe Covid is real?
Pritzker is allowing any Illinois counties with low rates to vaccinate anyone who wants it , these are so far mainly in central to southern Illinois. This has caused mass hysteria in the Vaccine Hunters group as no one actually apparently reads news articles and they have decided this means the entire is open now. Yesterday was like watching a really bad game of mass telephone, I now know how exhausting it must have been to be a CNN fact checker
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I don’t personally know any anti-vac wes, at least not among the people I am in regular contact with, but how do they think we get out of this otherwise, or do they also not believe Covid is real?
Pritzker is allowing any Illinois counties with low rates to vaccinate anyone who wants it , these are so far mainly in central to southern Illinois. This has caused mass hysteria in the Vaccine Hunters group as no one actually apparently reads news articles and they have decided this means the entire is open now. Yesterday was like watching a really bad game of mass telephone, I now know how exhausting it must have been to be a CNN fact checker
The anti-vax people I know either are the Covid is no big deal crowd (they think it's like the flu and they'll survive if they get) or those that worry about Covid but are hesitant to get the vaccine because they think it was developed too quickly and not studied enough.
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I’m a bit fascinated by the anti-vax crowd, as they are certainly not a monolith. My thinking it is an amalgam of:
-Those who were always anti-vaccine (probably the smallest group)
-The COVID is not as bad as everyone says group, which I also think overlaps with people who already had COVID (knowingly or unknowingly) so why get this
-The sizeable group who have been convinced that this thing is dangerous...now this is where it may get political, but all the data suggests this group is largely right of center and libertarian, they despise “elites of their choosing” (the media for example but not the media they listen/watch)
-Then I think most moveable group are folks who are hesitant (for variety of reasons), this group goes across party lines, is certainly racially and ethnically diverse, people in cities and rural areas, who I think genuinely want to be educated by people THEY trust (Their family doctors, perhaps clergy, other family members), not the Dr. Fauci’s, not former presidents (even DTJ), they don’t want to be disparaged or made fun of. Let’s focus on this group.
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I know a number of very smart people, who I have known for years, who are insistent than they won’t get the shot. These are people who aren’t anti-vaccine by any means. They aren’t anti-science. And many aren’t Covid deniers. They are all pro Trump Republicans, but other pro Trump Republicans I know are just as insistent on getting vaccinated.
I just can’t figure out their motivation, and I really don’t want to ask.
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I have a friend who insisted all last year that while he would get the vaccine at some point he would wait to see what happened to other people fir a bit first. Guess who’s already been vaccinated....😁
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I have a friend who insisted all last year that while he would get the vaccine at some point he would wait to see what happened to other people fir a bit first. Guess who’s already been vaccinated....😁
I think there are a lot of people like that. An effective vaccine had never been developed this quickly before. But the science behind it all has shown to be safe.
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I’m a bit fascinated by the anti-vax crowd, as they are certainly not a monolith. My thinking it is an amalgam of:
-Those who were always anti-vaccine (probably the smallest group)
-The COVID is not as bad as everyone says group, which I also think overlaps with people who already had COVID (knowingly or unknowingly) so why get this
-The sizeable group who have been convinced that this thing is dangerous...now this is where it may get political, but all the data suggests this group is largely right of center and libertarian, they despise “elites of their choosing” (the media for example but not the media they listen/watch)
-Then I think most moveable group are folks who are hesitant (for variety of reasons), this group goes across party lines, is certainly racially and ethnically diverse, people in cities and rural areas, who I think genuinely want to be educated by people THEY trust (Their family doctors, perhaps clergy, other family members), not the Dr. Fauci’s, not former presidents (even DTJ), they don’t want to be disparaged or made fun of. Let’s focus on this group.
Don't forget the fearful group.
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I'm guessing Evers gives it til the end of next week, just to see how supply is keeping up now that 70+ percent of the state is eligible.
WI is wide open as of 4/5. Great news. I just hope there's enough demand.
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I have a friend who insisted all last year that while he would get the vaccine at some point he would wait to see what happened to other people fir a bit first. Guess who’s already been vaccinated....😁
I hope a lot of the reluctant people fall into that camp, and get it within the next couple of months.
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Both of my company's have been offering the vaccine to most employees since mid January. An absolute ton of people have not taken the vaccine.
And unfortunately these people definitely do not fit on the Trump train.
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One of the reasons I think states are removing all barriers is because it is causing more confusion than it is doing a good job of prioritization at this point.
Case in point is the pre-existing health conditions that Wisconsin put together. Too long and not publicized well enough. So after less than two weeks, the state just said screw it....everyone just get your shot.
Smart move.
I think you will see quite a bit of movement between now and Memorial Day.
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WI State Supreme Court strikes down the Governor's rolling 60 day emergency declaration in the absence of legislative action. Here is an operative section of the Court's ruling:
'¶39 We recognize that determining when a set of facts gives rise to a unique enabling condition may not always be easy. But here, COVID-19 has been a consistent threat, and no one can suggest this threat has gone away and then reemerged. The threat has ebbed and flowed, but this does not negate the basic reality that COVID-19 has been a significant and constant danger for a year, with no letup. In the words of the statute, the occurrence of an "illness or health condition" caused by a "novel . . . biological agent" has remained, unabated. ¶40 In this case, we conclude that Governor Evers relied on the same enabling condition for the states of emergency announced in Executive Orders #72, #82, and #90...'
As expected, news headlines speak to the actions that the Governor took based on his rolling emergency. But the Court ruled that the real issue in play was his presumed ability to act unilaterally in the face of clear language in the Statutes. Note that the Court acknowledged the potential merit of the various policies, just not the lawfulness of them in the absence of legislative action.
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I've already seen the wailing about this but in all honesty I don't see much changing. Municipalities and private business who want to require masks still will. Those who won't probably didn't enforce it anyway.
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I've already seen the wailing about this but in all honesty I don't see much changing. Municipalities and private business who want to require masks still will. Those who won't probably didn't enforce it anyway.
Agreed. I guess the only thing that disturbs me is the misreporting that routinely takes place. Case in point is JS's own splashy headline. The Supreme Court actually acknowledges the potential merits of various enacted policies. But that simply wasn't the issue being adjudicated.
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I've already seen the wailing about this but in all honesty I don't see much changing. Municipalities and private business who want to require masks still will. Those who won't probably didn't enforce it anyway.
Yeah, I think counties have already said they weren’t enforcing over the last week or two. However, I went to a grocery store and they still required masks.
Isn’t the spread mostly within people gathering with their friends anyways? I’m guessing/hoping it doesn’t change things too much.
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Agreed. I guess the only thing that disturbs me is the misreporting that routinely takes place. Case in point is JS's own splashy headline. The Supreme Court actually acknowledges the potential merits of various enacted policies. But that simply wasn't the issue being adjudicated.
It's never going to stop being funny to me that in effect the Wisconsin Supreme Court has repeatedly had to say "well Executive and Legislative branches, this set of actions really do fall under the purview of the legislature, so we're going to strike down the executive action and have faith that the legislature will take the actions necessary in light of this historic pandemic." and the legislature has responded: "lol, no, we don't actually *do* anything here."
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I have a coworker who has told me he will not get the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines, because the mRNA technology is too new. But he said he would get the J&J vaccine, which is a more traditional vaccine.
Interesting in that J&J has a lower efficacy rate. But I guess his logic at least makes some sense.
I got my first shot of Moderna yesterday with zero worry.
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I have a coworker who has told me he will not get the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines, because the mRNA technology is too new. But he said he would get the J&J vaccine, which is a more traditional vaccine.
That's the same reason I still have a car without power windows.
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It's never going to stop being funny to me that in effect the Wisconsin Supreme Court has repeatedly had to say "well Executive and Legislative branches, this set of actions really do fall under the purview of the legislature, so we're going to strike down the executive action and have faith that the legislature will take the actions necessary in light of this historic pandemic." and the legislature has responded: "lol, no, we don't actually *do* anything here."
Yeah, it would be nice if we could get some actual 'government' out of the warring factions. Alas, not the world we live in today.
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That's the same reason I still have a car without power windows.
Ha! I remember 'electric windows' back in the 60s and that they would routinely break. I'm pretty sure they've got the bugs worked out Sultan. ;D
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Ha! I remember 'electric windows' back in the 60s and that they would routinely break. I'm pretty sure they've got the bugs worked out Sultan. ;D
Tell that to my 2000 f350
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Interesting in that J&J has a lower efficacy rate. But I guess his logic at least makes some sense.
I saw a video on "efficacy" and comparisons of the big 3.
The TLDR was .. During phase 3, tested on 20,000 people .. Moderna and Pfizer were tested (circa) August-October, when the US case rate was in the 40,000/day range. Then J&J's Phase 3 was October-January when the case rate was 200,000+/day.
J&J was tested during a time when the country was on fire with cases, so there was WAY more chances to get infected. It's zero wonder why J&J had a "lower" efficacy percentage.
It's likely they are all in the same ballpark and none of them are substantially inferior.
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But he said he would get the J&J vaccine, which is a more traditional vaccine.
Is your friend Chico's?
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I saw a video on "efficacy" and comparisons of the big 3.
The TLDR was .. During phase 3, tested on 20,000 people .. Moderna and Pfizer were tested (circa) August-October, when the US case rate was in the 40,000/day range. Then J&J's Phase 3 was October-January when the case rate was 200,000+/day.
J&J was tested during a time when the country was on fire with cases, so there was WAY more chances to get infected. It's zero wonder why J&J had a "lower" efficacy percentage.
It's likely they are all in the same ballpark and none of them are substantially inferior.
Yeah, more variants floating around then too. I totally agree. All are good. I have zero qualms about J&J, Moderna or Pfizer, as I mentioned. Would have happily accepted any of them. Just thought I'd pass along that coworker's perspective.
I think when we get down to the stragglers (i.e. everyone who really wanted one has gotten one) it will be important to offer choices. A one-shot traditional vaccine might be more attractive to some. Even if their reasoning is flawed. If it gets them to take it, fine with me. Any vaccine is better than no vaccines.
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I got the J&J one. My careful consideration and evaluation consisted of “Which one can I get soonest? J&J? Done!”
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I think when we get down to the stragglers (i.e. everyone who really wanted one has gotten one) it will be important to offer choices. A one-shot traditional vaccine might be more attractive to some. Even if their reasoning is flawed. If it gets them to take it, fine with me. Any vaccine is better than no vaccines.
I think that's completely fair.
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I got the J&J one. My careful consideration and evaluation consisted of “Which one can I get soonest? J&J? Done!”
Exactly my thought process as well. The answer for me was Pfizer...but I would have said "done!" to any of the three possible answers.
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We are Illinois residents and my wife got the vaccine from Froedert South in Pleasant Prairie. It is open to anyone, regardless of residency. Pfizer and J&J are both available. She chose Pfizer. Just FYI.
I got mine (Moderna) through Lake County IL.
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My first post on the COVID page in 2021...
https://twitter.com/MKEhealth/status/1380171687191326726
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My first post on the COVID page...
https://twitter.com/MKEhealth/status/1380171687191326726
👏👏Just got round 2 Pfizer this morning. Rx said vaccine supply (locally albeit) is not even close to a concern anymore. Said if anyone in our area of SE wisconsin needs a shot they should be able to get it same day, great news all around!
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My first post on the COVID page...
https://twitter.com/MKEhealth/status/1380171687191326726
You claimed on Holyland that you never posted on the Covid board and I came off like the A$$ when everyone believed you and I decided not to engage further. it's only your first post on the Covid page if you don't count:
New CDC Study Finds Majority of Those Infected with COVID-19 ‘Always’ Wore Masks
https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/new-cdc-study-finds-majority-of-those-infected-with-covid-19-always-wore-masks/
The study found 74.2% reported wearing masks “always” while 14.5% wore masks “often,” or 85% ;) almost always woremasks.
My mistake, I don't read what people write on here. Just sniff on the lies.
Zero students ended up not to test positive.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/liberty-university-wrongly-declared-a-virus-disaster-now-the-model-to-follow-falwell
Paint brushes are out thick by many posters, hey.
Disappointing. Yet, not surprising.
ain't no fun, if the homies can't have none
The economic can also lead to other health catastrophic events. Crime. Suicide. Depression for starters. Again, no easy choice in the future.
::) Thanks for your thoughts.
Maybe. It might be also catastrophic if we don't. There is no good decision here.
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Ya, look at the dates. They are mostly all from 13 months ago. LOL. ;)
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Ya, look at the dates. They are from 13 months ago. LOL. ;)
I guess I've never been to a sporting event then because I haven't been in the past year. You either lied to make me look the a$$ hole when I was right or forgot and honestly thought you never posted but either way it was worth calling you out on it.
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You quoted something I did or did not say on another board. So, just move on. No big deal.
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You quoted something I did or did not say on another board. So, just move on. No big deal.
You edited your initial post to add "in 2021" after Galway called you out. Just admit you were wrong.
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You quoted something I did or did not say on another board. So, just move on. No big deal.
You mean 100% did say. Again you're either trying to lie to make me look like the A$$ or honestly forgot. Either way you're wrong. Wrong today claiming it was your first post and wrong then when everyone flipped out on me for attacking the poster who posts game schedules. Clearly visible above are the two posts I was referencing in my holyland post to you.
Really poor choices of words obviously. Unfortunately for him, that means there is a huge mob that wants his head on a pike. Such is life in 2021. Not allowed to make mistakes. Unreal world out there. This really is an awful time to be born into...95% of this is fake outrage so as to virtue-signal so don't fall for it. That's the "cool" thing now. If you just survive the week or two of bad press, you will be ok. He did the right thing in apologizing and owned up to it. Enough with this cancel culture madness. So sick of it. It's literally nauseating. So many fragile people out there.
Keep ranting I've almost got right wing talking points bingo from your post!
No, that is you taking it as that.
Yes
Edit: Nevermind. It's not worth arguing with you. Some of the insane things you've posted on Scoop over time make that clear enough.
That is interesting choice of words of "insane" and me on scoop, since most if not all my post on Scoop are schedule related.
Covid board, please correct me if I'm wrong but you have posted a study used by anti maskers to show that we shouldn't have to wear them despite those in the study already engaging in particularly risky behavior.
Also have advocated for not shutting down at all on the protect our "mental health" grounds. Ignoring the deadly contagious disease that was steam rolling us.
You're not exactly some of the other posters but you've had some takes on a pandemic that's killed more than any war that I wouldn't call sane.
Nope. That is not me. You have the wrong poster!! I don't even read the COVID board on Scoop since last Spring. I stay away from the cancer.
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So, linking a study from last year about mask wearing, is myself saying we should not wear them?
Also a statement on mental health, is myself saying we shouldn't have the shutdown from 13 months ago?
If those are the insane things as you said, then I sure the hell forgot. ;D
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You quoted something I did or did not say on another board. So, just move on. No big deal.
"Did or did not"..."just move on"...
Lol
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Children. Stop fighting on the playground and drink your milk.
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^^^^^^^^ what dis guy said.
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Whoa, whoa, stay in your lane!
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Whoa, whoa, stay in your lane!
(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1290150241.1384/pp,840x830-pad,1000x1000,f8f8f8.jpg)
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(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1290150241.1384/pp,840x830-pad,1000x1000,f8f8f8.jpg)
Quoted to make the image bigger for our older readers
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wisn.com/amp/article/some-milwaukee-neighborhoods-among-countys-least-vaccinated-zip-codes/36081151
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wisn.com/amp/article/some-milwaukee-neighborhoods-among-countys-least-vaccinated-zip-codes/36081151
Wow. I went to Marquette with someone quoted in that article. Very interesting how the hesitancy cuts across many different demographic groups.
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I don’t know what you can do about someone who thinks, more than a year after this started, that if she takes vitamins all will be well....
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I don’t know what you can do about someone who thinks, more than a year after this started, that if she takes vitamins all will be well....
Throw their phone in Lake Michigan, for starters.
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That's really discouraging. Unfortunately too many of those folks are going to get sick. I hope they all recover and overall hesitancy doesn't lead to variants we can handle.
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Dunning Kruger is alive and well. And always will be
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/solutions/2021/04/07/james-causey-got-vaccinated-covid-19-but-his-wife-hesitant-milwaukee/7061378002/
Another story blaming vaccine hesitation on the idea it was rushed through the process and may not be safe. Pretty familiar talking point that was being thrown around throughout 2020 by one particular side of the political spectrum seems to have really taken hold in about 15% of population.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/solutions/2021/04/07/james-causey-got-vaccinated-covid-19-but-his-wife-hesitant-milwaukee/7061378002/
Another story blaming vaccine hesitation on the idea it was rushed through the process and may not be safe. Pretty familiar talking point that was being thrown around throughout 2020 by one particular side of the political spectrum seems to have really taken hold in about 15% of population.
Sorry, but what side of the political spectrum are we talking about here?
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I've heard that from liberals and conservatives. I don't think this is a particularly partisan concern.
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I've heard that from liberals and conservatives. I don't think this is a particularly partisan concern.
Same
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Not an encouraging trend on the doses-by-week here: https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccine-data.htm.
Mar 7: 307k
Mar 14: 312k
Mar 21: 364k
Mar 28: 373k
Apr 4: 419k
Apr 11: 326k
I'm hoping (but not confident) that this is simply delayed reporting and we'll see a bump in the next 24 hours. Any other explanations beyond (1) delay or (2) hesitancy? J&J probably a contributor, but can't imagine that's the main contributor to the drop last week.
On a more positive note, WI had "-2" deaths today.
EDIT: Looks like a total-to-date of 165k J&J does until the pause. Those started up much later than the others so I think I'm probably wrong with my original suspicion that it wasn't a meaningful contributor. Certinainly not all, but probably multiple 10s of K of the drop off. Really hoping total hold or increase this week.
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Regardless of "pause", big drop off in JNJ shipment numbers expected the past couple weeks. I think that's what the data is showing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/04/09/johnson-johnson-vaccine-delays/
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I am pretty sure that drop is almost entirely due to J&J.
BTW, still haven't seen a big bump in total cases, and in fact it looks like it is leveling off.
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Not an encouraging trend on the doses-by-week here: https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccine-data.htm.
Mar 7: 307k
Mar 14: 312k
Mar 21: 364k
Mar 28: 373k
Apr 4: 419k
Apr 11: 326k
I'm hoping (but not confident) that this is simply delayed reporting and we'll see a bump in the next 24 hours. Any other explanations beyond (1) delay or (2) hesitancy? J&J probably a contributor, but can't imagine that's the main contributor to the drop last week.
On a more positive note, WI had "-2" deaths today.
EDIT: Looks like a total-to-date of 165k J&J does until the pause. Those started up much later than the others so I think I'm probably wrong with my original suspicion that it wasn't a meaningful contributor. Certinainly not all, but probably multiple 10s of K of the drop off. Really hoping total hold or increase this week.
Start of the zombie apocalypse?
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Wisconsin shows only a 37K gap between doses allocated and doses administered. Am I correct in thinking this is why it has slowed down over the last 1.5 weeks?
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Not an encouraging trend on the doses-by-week here: https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccine-data.htm.
Mar 7: 307k
Mar 14: 312k
Mar 21: 364k
Mar 28: 373k
Apr 4: 419k
Apr 11: 326k
Checked these numbers again. Some historical adjustments, but the dropoff continued last week.
Week: Was 4/19 --> Is today (4/26)
Mar 7: 307k --> 300k (changed)
Mar 14: 312k --> 312k
Mar 21: 364k --> 364k
Mar 28: 373k --> 382k (changed)
Apr 4: 419k --> 419k
Apr 11: 326k --> 349k (changed)
Apr 18: NA --> 290k
Only about 35-40% of the 290k were doses going to the "first shot". Last Monday the total with at least one shot was 2.341m and it's 2.452m or about 110k of that 290k administered by my math.
Wisconsin shows only a 37K gap between doses allocated and doses administered. Am I correct in thinking this is why it has slowed down over the last 1.5 weeks?
This gap is now over 270k.
Slowing down earlier than I'd hoped. That said, the rolling 7-day average is the lowest it's been in over 3 weeks so some things to be encouraged about.
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https://www.channel3000.com/public-health-officials-increase-capacity-limits-for-all-dane-county-madison-businesses/?alert=2198376&alert_type=banner
Dane Co back at 75% starting Wednesday.
This falls in line with my "Everything will be back open by Memorial Day" line of thinking from earlier this year.
In Madison, you can get vaccines with no appointment at the Alliant Energy Center and Hy-vees.
No excuse for people to not be fully vaccinated by the end of May if they want it. And since we aren't forcing people... I'm sticking with my prediction.
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Checked these numbers again. Some historical adjustments, but the dropoff continued last week.
Total shots down 47% from the peak on 4/4.
Currently at 54% of the eligible population, 43% of total population with one shot. Not an encouraging trend here.
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Only 308 new cases. No deaths.
Vaccinations starting to show effect.
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Only 308 new cases. No deaths.
Vaccinations starting to show effect.
I hope you’re right it out 7 day avg for deaths is the highest it’s been in a month. I believe yesterday we reported 20.
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I hope you’re right it out 7 day avg for deaths is the highest it’s been in a month. I believe yesterday we reported 20.
I hope so, too. Weekend numbers can tend to be a bit off.
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My town is 89% vaccinated, age 16 and up. Solid.
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Brewers back to 100% capacity on June 25. I expect to see Packers follow suit soon.
Wondering if Bucks will hold off or only increase to 50% for Playoffs since it is tightly packed indoors.
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Brewers back to 100% capacity on June 25. I expect to see Packers follow suit soon.
Wondering if Bucks will hold off or only increase to 50% for Playoffs since it is tightly packed indoors.
CDC just gave the green light to pack the place. No masks, no social distancing, no more excuses to stay buttoned up.
Here.We.Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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CDC just gave the green light to pack the place. No masks, no social distancing, no more excuses to stay buttoned up.
Here.We.Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not exactly what they said. But, yes, I think a lot of teams will interpret it that way.
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CDC just gave the green light to pack the place. No masks, no social distancing, no more excuses to stay buttoned up.
Here.We.Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What I read is they green lit any place that wants to enforce proof of vaccine.
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That may be what you read, but that's not how its going to be in real life.
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I would guess the “most cases” means large indoor events, it is still recommended to wear masks. Hopefully we get to a point that on November 9th it’s not even a question.
I’m guessing we see at least a little bump up soon as things open up. Although, I’m guessing those that haven’t been vaccinated haven’t really been following guidelines as it is. Unless there’s a medical reason to not be vaccinated.
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Actually it sounds like the "most circumstances" are everything but long-term care facilities, health care facilities, prisons, etc. IOW, places where people are sick and vulnerable, or have some sort of communal living arrangement.
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Actually it sounds like the "most circumstances" are everything but long-term care facilities, health care facilities, prisons, etc. IOW, places where people are sick and vulnerable, or have some sort of communal living arrangement.
Interesting. That certainly makes sense. Thanks for the correction.
In a way it feels surreal to be at this point. Despite being vaccinated, I still feel a bit weird being out and about without a mask.
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That may be what you read, but that's not how its going to be in real life.
Interested to hear why you think it wouldn’t be how it’s going to go in real life. The science backs it up and the CDC now recommends it, what else do we need to see?
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I mean, no place is going to ask for proof of vaccine. My guess is that you are going to see people largely maskless regardless of their vaccination status by July 4.
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Actually it sounds like the "most circumstances" are everything but long-term care facilities, health care facilities, prisons, etc. IOW, places where people are sick and vulnerable, or have some sort of communal living arrangement.
Masks need to be worn in busses, planes, trains, airports, bus stations. Anywhere that federal, state, local rules and regulations require a mask, including local businesses and workplaces.
But people don't actually read, they just hear what they want to hear.
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Masks need to be worn in busses, planes, trains, airports, bus stations. Anywhere that federal, state, local rules and regulations require a mask, including local businesses and workplaces.
But people don't actually read, they just hear what they want to hear.
Planes, airports, and different mass travel situations I can see this being enforced. God luck everywhere else, just words on paper at this point.
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Masks need to be worn in busses, planes, trains, airports, bus stations. Anywhere that federal, state, local rules and regulations require a mask, including local businesses and workplaces.
But people don't actually read, they just hear what they want to hear.
Sorry. Next time I’ll quote the actual text. But the point I was addressing is that it does not include large, indoor crowds. Like a sporting event.
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Sorry. Next time I’ll quote the actual text. But the point I was addressing is that it does not include large, indoor crowds. Like a sporting event.
It's all good. I was trying to add to your statement, not argue. In the future, I'll argue so that it's more clear.
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https://twitter.com/MollyBeck/status/1425924483676884992?s=19
Republican lawmakers are circulating a bill that would allow workers to collect unemployment if they quit a job over a vaccine mandate.
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Huh, I thought unemployment payments incentivized laziness. It’s real tough to keep up.
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Waste of time. Evers will never sign it.
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Huh, I thought unemployment payments incentivized laziness. It’s real tough to keep up.
Backdoor way of trying to punish employers who mandate masks. Absurd, but points for creativity. Dirty pool at its finest
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Backdoor way of trying to punish employers who mandate masks. Absurd, but points for creativity. Dirty pool at its finest
How would that punish employers? I am not deeply familiar with unemployment laws so apologies if that is a dumb question.
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How would that punish employers? I am not deeply familiar with unemployment laws so apologies if that is a dumb question.
All employers pay unemployment insurance. Firing for cause (violated company policy, no vaccine, no unemployment paid) is far cheaper than layoff (no vaccine, unemployment paid).
Also why I suggested earlier that many employers will choose to put unvaccinated employees on unpaid leave. If they choose to quit after that, no unemployment disputes.
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All employers pay unemployment insurance. Firing for cause (violated company policy, no vaccine, no unemployment paid) is far cheaper than layoff (no vaccine, unemployment paid).
Also why I suggested earlier that many employers will choose to put unvaccinated employees on unpaid leave. If they choose to quit after that, no unemployment disputes.
Again, sorry if dumb question, but don't employers pay into the system based on employee headcount, and actual unemployment payments are made at the state level to the actual unemployed person?
If I understand correctly you are saying employers have to pay for the unemployment based on how many people they layoff?
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If I understand correctly you are saying employers have to pay for the unemployment based on how many people they layoff?
Yes, they do. Let me google that for you:
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2020/article/the-cost-of-layoffs-in-ui-taxes.htm
States use two primary methods for determining an employer’s UI tax rate.3 In both methods, when an employer lays off a worker, all of the UI benefits received by that worker are assigned back,4 on the basis of specific rules for assigning benefits, to the employer’s experience-rating formulation. The first method, called the reserve-ratio method, is used by 30 states, Puerto Rico, and the District of Columbia; the second method, called the benefit-ratio method, is used by 16 states.
In reserve-ratio systems, an employer’s “experience rate” is a decreasing function, whereby the difference between all taxes paid and all benefits assigned (from laid-off employees) is divided by the employer’s average covered payroll. Taxes paid and benefits assigned are usually summed over all past years of the employer’s existence, and average payroll is typically the average for the last 3 years. Each year, the previous year’s amounts of benefits assigned and taxes paid are incorporated into the employer’s “reserve balance,” and a new reserve ratio is derived. When the amount of benefits assigned exceeds the amount of taxes paid, the employer’s reserve balance decreases and its UI tax rate goes up. Conversely, when the benefits assigned are lower than the taxes paid, the employer’s reserve balance increases and its tax rate goes down.
In benefit-ratio systems, an employer’s experience rate depends only on the ratio of the benefits collected by laid-off employees to the level of the employer’s taxable wages (both benefits and taxable wages are calculated for the last 3 years). When the benefits assigned to the employer increase, the employer’s benefit ratio goes up, and so does the corresponding tax rate.
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Again, sorry if dumb question, but don't employers pay into the system based on employee headcount, and actual unemployment payments are made at the state level to the actual unemployed person?
If I understand correctly you are saying employers have to pay for the unemployment based on how many people they layoff?
As an employer, your unemployment tax rate increases when you have claims. So its not like you're directly paying cash to the employee, but your tax liabilities increase so it does directly affect your cash flow/bottom line
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Yes, they do. Let me google that for you:
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2020/article/the-cost-of-layoffs-in-ui-taxes.htm
Using the interwebs! No fair.
Ah, they old "if you actually use this insurance we'll increase your rates" game.
Thanks to you and JWags for the answers.
Hmmm, totally talking out of my ass here, but I would think that the calculus is that any additional unemployment insurance an employer has to pay is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of even a single COVID-caused hospitalization, at least for self-insured employers...and even fully-insured employers that would face a huge spike in rates after a catastrophic claim or two.
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Using the interwebs! No fair.
Ah, they old "if you actually use this insurance we'll increase your rates" game.
Thanks to you and JWags for the answers.
I just re-read your question, and JWags was more correct in answering that layoffs (and not firings) affect your insurance rate - it's not an actual payment to employees. But over time it affects the bottom line - sometimes significantly.
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I just re-read your question, and JWags was more correct in answering that layoffs (and not firings) affect your insurance rate - it's not an actual payment to employees. But over time it affects the bottom line - sometimes significantly.
Yep. My company's old CFO explained it to me, paraphrasing..
"Companies fight you on unemployment claims, not because of you specifically, but because of how your claim can affect them in the future. Its like if you have an acrimonious break up with a GF, if you can convince them and everyone else that THEY were the instigator of the breakup, you come off better in appearance in your future dating opportunities"
Not a perfect analogy, but I got it and it made me smirk.
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Yep. My company's old CFO explained it to me, paraphrasing..
"Companies fight you on unemployment claims, not because of you specifically, but because of how your claim can affect them in the future. Its like if you have an acrimonious break up with a GF, if you can convince them and everyone else that THEY were the instigator of the breakup, you come off better in appearance in your future dating opportunities"
Not a perfect analogy, but I got it and it made me smirk.
Curious question how does the rating effect an employer that is seasonal? Landscaping, construction, etc where the entire labor force goes on unemployment seasonally?
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Curious question how does the rating effect an employer that is seasonal? Landscaping, construction, etc where the entire labor force goes on unemployment seasonally?
Most seasonal employers have very high unemployment insurance rates. The seasonal employee is, however, required to look for work. They aren't supposed to sit around and collect unemployment until next season.
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So currently WI Republicans want more people living off government welfare and not working, and also want to interfere with private business decisions?
Hmm maybe it's not about policy...
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Most seasonal employers have very high unemployment insurance rates. The seasonal employee is, however, required to look for work. They aren't supposed to sit around and collect unemployment until next season.
Right, supposed to. Basically call their Union hall and get put on the work list. They'll never get called back out until spring though.
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Right, supposed to. Basically call their Union hall and get put on the work list. They'll never get called back out until spring though.
Most seasonal jobs are not union.
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Most seasonal jobs are not union.
Probably, I'm coming from a construction slant where they are mostly union.
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Dane Co resumes indoor mask mandates.
70% of the county is vaccined, 20% is under 12.
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Dane Co resumes indoor mask mandates.
70% of the county is vaccined, 20% is under 12.
Cases have been flat for the last two weeks. Wonder if it's a preemptive move with kids coming back to UW.
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Cases have been flat for the last two weeks. Wonder if it's a preemptive move with kids coming back to UW.
It's because they can.
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Stupid as stupid does...
Dude with co-morbidities like him should really be more careful.
Sen. Andre Jacque of De Pere hospitalized after testing positive for COVID-19
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/17/sen-andre-jacque-hospitalized-after-testing-positive-covid-19/8156902002/
'Sen. Andre Jacque, a Republican from De Pere, said Monday evening he and some family members tested positive late last week and that he was at the hospital with pneumonia. He did not say whether he had been admitted.
In recent months, Jacque has been one of most outspoken lawmakers against COVID-19 vaccine mandates and has authored legislation that would bar government officials or business owners from requiring Wisconsinites be vaccinated against COVID-19 or show proof of vaccination to access services.
Jacque said he has had pneumonia previously but did not immediately say whether his new bout was diagnosed as COVID-19 pneumonia.
He did not immediately say whether he had been vaccinated against COVID-19."
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Dane Co resumes indoor mask mandates.
70% of the county is vaccined, 20% is under 12.
Seems like a great plan to protect the health and well-being of that 20% that cannot be vaccinated yet.
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Dane Co resumes indoor mask mandates.
70% of the county is vaccined, 20% is under 12.
AND, how many have had and recovered from this nasty little critter?
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AND, how many have had and recovered from this nasty little critter?
Again, it doesn't matter. CDC still recommending vaccination regardless if you had it or not.
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Good to see Dane County putting the needs of the unvaccinated children over the needs of the virus.
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Again, it doesn't matter. CDC still recommending vaccination regardless if you had it or not.
once again, the cdc is still not the end all, be all..."recommending" is ok. they have proven time and again to be wrong
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Dane Co resumes indoor mask mandates.
70% of the county is vaccined, 20% is under 12.
So only ~9% a$$holes. Not bad
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once again, the cdc is still not the end all, be all..."recommending" is ok. they have proven time and again to be wrong
The CDC is better than a dentist with Google whose been consistently wrong for the last 18 months.
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Good to see Dane County putting the needs of the unvaccinated children over the needs of the virus.
It’s an order that doesn’t make much sense honestly.
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It’s an order that doesn’t make much sense honestly.
Tower was ready to throw on a mask when he was in his house around his kids because the eXPerTs said so…..orders that make sense don’t really pertain to ol Tower.
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So only ~9% a$$holes. Not bad
mostly minorities, so if that's how you feel, watch out or Mysogonist Mike will call you racist.
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mostly minorities, so if that's how you feel, watch out or Mysogonist Mike will call you racist.
There’s meds for OCD.
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The CDC is better than a dentist with Google whose been consistently wrong for the last 18 months.
there, that's gotta make ya feel good. only 18 mos? if you rely on CDC and WHO for that matter you're more of a sheople than i thought. i have multiple sources i can point you toward showing how inaccurate both have been, but you're a big boy. you can find them if you want to
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There’s meds for OCD.
racist!!
"New York City data shows the city's vaccine uptake is lowest among certain demographics, particularly Black residents that account for the lowest, with only 31% reported as fully vaccinated. Latinos fare a bit better at 42%, while White residents are 46% fully vaccinated. By comparison, more than 67% of Native Americans and 71% of Asians or Pacific Islanders are fully vaccinated."
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-minorities-could-become-collateral-damage-in-ny-cs-new-vaccine-policy-211758935.html
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there, that's gotta make ya feel good. only 18 mos? if you rely on CDC and WHO for that matter you're more of a sheople than i thought. i have multiple sources i can point you toward showing how inaccurate both have been, but you're a big boy. you can find them if you want to
OOoooo, you have sources? Can you point me to the one that has the peer reviewed study on the effectiveness of HCQ that you keep touting? Thanks in advance.
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racist!!
"New York City data shows the city's vaccine uptake is lowest among certain demographics, particularly Black residents that account for the lowest, with only 31% reported as fully vaccinated. Latinos fare a bit better at 42%, while White residents are 46% fully vaccinated. By comparison, more than 67% of Native Americans and 71% of Asians or Pacific Islanders are fully vaccinated."
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-minorities-could-become-collateral-damage-in-ny-cs-new-vaccine-policy-211758935.html
As an advocate for all lives matter, I’m glad you’re doing your part to make sure all get vaccinated
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It’s an order that doesn’t make much sense honestly.
I suspect the order was issued to circumvent the state legislature's over ride of the UW Regent attempt to require masks for UW students.
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There’s meds for OCD.
why do you support a misogynist slanderer (libeler?)?
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I suspect the order was issued to circumvent the state legislature's over ride of the UW Regent attempt to require masks for UW students.
I think you are right.
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I think you are right.
Students returning and UGM at Epic.
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It's because they can.
If you want to see what Madison/Dane Co will do, just watch New York and wait a week.
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Good on WI breaking down the numbers between vax & unvax:
https://www.wbay.com/2021/08/19/covid-19-wisconsin-dhs-compares-vaccinated-unvaccinated-case-numbers/
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https://www.wuwm.com/2021-08-23/waukesha-is-only-wisconsin-school-district-to-opt-out-of-federal-free-meals-program
🤡
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https://www.wuwm.com/2021-08-23/waukesha-is-only-wisconsin-school-district-to-opt-out-of-federal-free-meals-program
🤡
1. Not covid.
2. Idk, the "its every local jurisdiction's responsibility to get as much federal money as they can because its free" thing always seems a little strange to me. I get there is no downside becuase the district doesn't have to pay the money back, and I'm generally pretty left leaning, but means testing some of these things doesn't immediately strike me as some tragic injustice.
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https://www.channel3000.com/state-sen-jacque-reportedly-on-ventilator-as-he-remains-hospitalized/
presented without comment.
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https://www.channel3000.com/state-sen-jacque-reportedly-on-ventilator-as-he-remains-hospitalized/
presented without comment.
I can muster sympathy only for the people he likely infected.
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I can muster sympathy only for the people he likely infected.
Praying for your soul.
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Praying for your soul.
Equally useful tots and pears to you , too.
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Try not to get too sick in Wisconsin, hospitals are inundated
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2021/12/03/covid-wisconsin-hospitals-turning-away-patients-cases-climb-staffs-struggle/8855404002/
> On Friday, the Wisconsin Hospital Association reported 1,457 patients were hospitalized with COVID-19, the most so far this year. Of those, 393 patients have been admitted to an ICU.
It's the unvaccinated people, staying longer, with more acute illness causing problems. Rural hospitals aren't equipped to treat anything serious so they're used to xferring these cases to big city hospitals, but there's not room left for transfers.
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Just a few weeks behind Minnesota and Michigan. Fun fact, our ambulance attendants (understaffed, underpaid) are now actually offering COVID treatments to patients in their houses to avoid transporting them to already overwhelmed hospitals. It is quite disconcerting the first time you see an EMT trying to talk someone out of transporting.
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Just a few weeks behind Minnesota and Michigan. Fun fact, our ambulance attendants (understaffed, underpaid) are now actually offering COVID treatments to patients in their houses to avoid transporting them to already overwhelmed hospitals. It is quite disconcerting the first time you see an EMT trying to talk someone out of transporting.
What treatments are EMTs allowed to offer in home?
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https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2021/12/michigan-paramedics-are-making-house-calls-to-treat-covid-positive-patients-with-antibody-infusions.html
This one is a little older....
https://www.medstarambulance.org/2021/09/28/mich-medics-administer-monoclonal-antibody-therapy-in-patient-homes/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=mich-medics-administer-monoclonal-antibody-therapy-in-patient-homes
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Try not to get too sick in Wisconsin, hospitals are inundated
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2021/12/03/covid-wisconsin-hospitals-turning-away-patients-cases-climb-staffs-struggle/8855404002/
> On Friday, the Wisconsin Hospital Association reported 1,457 patients were hospitalized with COVID-19, the most so far this year. Of those, 393 patients have been admitted to an ICU.
It's the unvaccinated people, staying longer, with more acute illness causing problems. Rural hospitals aren't equipped to treat anything serious so they're used to xferring these cases to big city hospitals, but there's not room left for transfers.
To suggest this is only or even primarily the unvaccinated being hospitalized is not true at all. More often then not when I’m talking to staff on Covid units they are saying the majority of patients are vaccinated but not boosted.
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Try not to get too sick in Wisconsin, hospitals are inundated
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2021/12/03/covid-wisconsin-hospitals-turning-away-patients-cases-climb-staffs-struggle/8855404002/
> On Friday, the Wisconsin Hospital Association reported 1,457 patients were hospitalized with COVID-19, the most so far this year. Of those, 393 patients have been admitted to an ICU.
It's the unvaccinated people, staying longer, with more acute illness causing problems. Rural hospitals aren't equipped to treat anything serious so they're used to xferring these cases to big city hospitals, but there's not room left for transfers.
Hospitals are definitely bursting at the seams but we’re still about 50% of what we were last year at this time as far as Covid hospitalizations. I was at a hospital today though that had to take 4 inpatient units and condense them down to 2 cause if staffing issues. More then 1 reason as to why hospitals are having to turn patients away.
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To suggest this is only or even primarily the unvaccinated being hospitalized is not true at all. More often then not when I’m talking to staff on Covid units they are saying the majority of patients are vaccinated but not boosted.
Per usual, you are absolutely wrong. Even when you account for the fact that 2/3 of the state is vaccinated, they doesn't make up for this disparity.
https://www.wbay.com/2021/11/15/covid-19-wisconsin-unvaccinated-had-5x-more-infections-15x-more-deaths-october/
"In October, for every 100,000 vaccinated people -- which is the majority of people in Wisconsin -- there were 456.4 cases, 12.2 hospitalizations, and 1.8 deaths.
For every 100,000 unvaccinated or not-fully vaccinated people, there were 2,255.1 cases, 132 hospitalizations, and 27.3 deaths.
A fully vaccinated person was 5 times less likely to be infected, 11 times less likely to need a hospital bed, and 15 times less likely to die than a person who was partially or never vaccinated."
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Per usual, you are absolutely wrong.
https://www.wbay.com/2021/11/15/covid-19-wisconsin-unvaccinated-had-5x-more-infections-15x-more-deaths-october/
"In October, for every 100,000 vaccinated people -- which is the majority of people in Wisconsin -- there were 456.4 cases, 12.2 hospitalizations, and 1.8 deaths.
For every 100,000 unvaccinated or not-fully vaccinated people, there were 2,255.1 cases, 132 hospitalizations, and 27.3 deaths.
A fully vaccinated person was 5 times less likely to be infected, 11 times less likely to need a hospital bed, and 15 times less likely to die than a person who was partially or never vaccinated."
Fluffy just passing along what I’m being told. Well past worrying about being right or wrong, frankly exhausted by the constant dick measuring with this stuff but figured since I’m one of a couple people posting on scoop who are actually in hospitals and on these units figured it might be helpful to pass along what I’m hearing.
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Per usual, you are absolutely wrong. Even when you account for the fact that 2/3 of the state is vaccinated, they doesn't make up for this disparity.
https://www.wbay.com/2021/11/15/covid-19-wisconsin-unvaccinated-had-5x-more-infections-15x-more-deaths-october/
"In October, for every 100,000 vaccinated people -- which is the majority of people in Wisconsin -- there were 456.4 cases, 12.2 hospitalizations, and 1.8 deaths.
For every 100,000 unvaccinated or not-fully vaccinated people, there were 2,255.1 cases, 132 hospitalizations, and 27.3 deaths.
A fully vaccinated person was 5 times less likely to be infected, 11 times less likely to need a hospital bed, and 15 times less likely to die than a person who was partially or never vaccinated."
The data from your link was from October. Might still be the case here in December but the numbers from a macro level in Wisconsin have gotten dramatically worse in the 5-6 weeks since October.
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Fluffy just passing along what I’m being told. Well past worrying about being right or wrong, frankly exhausted by the constant dick measuring with this stuff but figured since I’m one of a couple people posting on scoop who are actually in hospitals and on these units figured it might be helpful to pass along what I’m hearing.
The problem is that you think anecdotal stories trumps actual data. Smart people don’t do that.
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The problem is that you think anecdotal stories trumps actual data. Smart people don’t do that.
This is true it is just a bunch of anecdotal feedback, not sure if stories is the right word. Will be interesting to see if the data you linked to stays the same as the year wraps up or if it shifts to match the feedback I’ve been hearing. Hopefully they continue to update!
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Three quarters of hospitalized COVID patients in Michigan are unvaccinated.
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Three quarters of hospitalized COVID patients in Michigan are unvaccinated.
I’ll take your word for it, no idea.
Vermont which has something like a 90% vaccination rate has never had higher Covid hospitalizations so everything seems to be a mess. Except Florida, deathsantis has that thing rolling!!
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That anecdata does not match with the report of a monoclonal antibody infusion staff I heard from today.
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That anecdata does not match with the report of a monoclonal antibody infusion staff I heard from today.
He’s a liar
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That anecdata does not match with the report of a monoclonal antibody infusion staff I heard from today.
What are they seeing? Closer to 3 to 1 like tower said in Michigan?
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He’s a liar
And I’m not convinced you’re a real person.
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What are they seeing? Closer to 3 to 1 like tower said in Michigan?
They didn't cite numbers, but said their unit and the hospital they staff was "overwhelmingly" treating unvaccinated people.
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I’ll take your word for it, no idea.
Vermont which has something like a 90% vaccination rate has never had higher Covid hospitalizations so everything seems to be a mess. Except Florida, deathsantis has that thing rolling!!
In Vermont, the hospitalization rate is four times higher for the unvaccinated.
https://vtdigger.org/2021/12/03/vermont-ends-november-with-record-breaking-streak-of-severe-covid-outcomes/amp/
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He’s a liar
I don't believe he is in hospitals, no medical professionals say the things he claims they are telling him.
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I’ll take your word for it, no idea.
Vermont which has something like a 90% vaccination rate has never had higher Covid hospitalizations so everything seems to be a mess. Except Florida, deathsantis has that thing rolling!!
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/98/65/4b/98654b0cfc7e150e19c01546be586185.jpg)
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I don't believe he is in hospitals, no medical professionals say the things he claims they are telling him.
Not the first thing you’d be wrong about my friend, it’s ok.
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In Vermont, the hospitalization rate is four times higher for the unvaccinated.
https://vtdigger.org/2021/12/03/vermont-ends-november-with-record-breaking-streak-of-severe-covid-outcomes/amp/
Is their vaccination rate 90%+?
Do they have record hospitalizations?
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Is their vaccination rate 90%+?
Do they have record hospitalizations?
Yes. Mostly unvaccinated in the hospitals. Which goes against more of your anecdotal nonsense.
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Delta ravages the unvaccinated and causes more breakthrough cases. Duh.
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The data from your link was from October. Might still be the case here in December but the numbers from a macro level in Wisconsin have gotten dramatically worse in the 5-6 weeks since October.
I would say 80-85% unvaccinated in my large hospital in Wisconsin.
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I would say 80-85% unvaccinated in my large hospital in Wisconsin.
You work at a hospital? You’ve probably met space arrow
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You work at a hospital? You’ve probably met space arrow
If he hasn’t meet arrow, he probably is lying about working in a hospital.
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looks like the numbers don't bear out your fantasy/troll/sealion/anecdata, Pace:
"About a quarter of Bellin's hospital beds are filled by COVID-19 patients, Mead said, and it gets graver inside the ICU, where 50% of the patients are sick with COVID-19. None of the COVID-19 patients in the ICU are vaccinated. Across the hospital, 75% of the COVID-19 patients are also unvaccinated, he said."
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2021/12/03/covid-wisconsin-hospitals-turning-away-patients-cases-climb-staffs-struggle/8855404002/
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I'M JUST TELLING YOU GUYS WHAT I HEARD!
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Some people are saying...
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Facebook should never be used as a source.
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Fluffy just passing along what I’m being told. Well past worrying about being right or wrong, frankly exhausted by the constant dick measuring with this stuff but figured since I’m one of a couple people posting on scoop who are actually in hospitals and on these units figured it might be helpful to pass along what I’m hearing.
Guys guys guys, please stop dick measuring (pointing out when I'm glaringly, hilariously wrong).
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Fluffy just passing along what I’m being told. Well past worrying about being right or wrong, frankly exhausted by the constant dick measuring with this stuff but figured since I’m one of a couple people posting on scoop who are actually in hospitals and on these units figured it might be helpful to pass along what I’m hearing.
You need to stop doing this.
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You need to stop doing this.
The transparent rhetorical technique of "I've heard," or "I'm passing on what I'm being told," or famously employed *constantly* by someone of prominence who has been reduced to a somewhat less prominent role of late "many people are saying" is so blatantly a tell for "I'm making up the thing I'm about to say but want to couch it in plausibly deniable language so that it doesn't seem quite like I'm making it up, but obviously I'm making it up."
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The transparent rhetorical technique of "I've heard," or "I'm passing on what I'm being told," or famously employed *constantly* by someone of prominence who has been reduced to a somewhat less prominent role of late "many people are saying" is so blatantly a tell for "I'm making up the thing I'm about to say but want to couch it in plausibly deniable language so that it doesn't seem quite like I'm making it up, but obviously I'm making it up."
Or maybe it’s just simply what someone is being told. There’s of course no way for me to confirm each patients vax status so it is admittedly nothing more then the anecdotal feedback I’m hearing.
Take the Bellin example that was referenced earlier. Zero vaccinated patients in the ICU, all unvaxed. But then overall 25% of patients hospitalized at Bellin are vaxed. So if I were meeting with a Covid unit that is not the ICU at Bellin there’s a pretty good chance a nurse without getting into actual specifics might say generally the breakdown she’s seeing on her unit is 50/50 for vaxed vs unvaxed.
Maybe it’s 60/40 but it’s not some huge stretch for a nurse on that Covid (non critical care) unit to say it’s pretty much using Bellin’s own numbers they reported for that story. Not everything is some big nefarious scheme, sometimes it is just what it is.
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Or maybe it’s just simply what someone is being told. There’s of course no way for me to confirm each patients vax status so it is admittedly nothing more then the anecdotal feedback I’m hearing.
Take the Bellin example that was referenced earlier. Zero vaccinated patients in the ICU, all unvaxed. But then overall 25% of patients hospitalized at Bellin are vaxed. So if I were meeting with a Covid unit that is not the ICU at Bellin there’s a pretty good chance a nurse without getting into actual specifics might say generally the breakdown she’s seeing on her unit is 50/50 for vaxed vs unvaxed.
Maybe it’s 60/40 but it’s not some huge stretch for a nurse on that Covid (non critical care) unit to say it’s pretty much using Bellin’s own numbers they reported for that story. Not everything is some big nefarious scheme, sometimes it is just what it is.
That’s fine. The issue is then taking that statement and using it to try and apply it to a global landscape. You’ve been trying to use that one nurse’s experience to say, just as many vaxxed people are hospitalized as unvaxxed.
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Watch now: Rural Wisconsin hospitals 'burning on the inside' with COVID-19 surge
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/health-med-fit/watch-now-rural-wisconsin-hospitals-burning-on-the-inside-with-covid-19-surge/article_5a8c8486-e99d-5f41-ac6b-f1443ccab90e.html
"MEDFORD — Leaders at Aspirus Medford Hospital gathered this week to assess their situation: 19 patients, double the regular load. Twelve with COVID-19, 11 of them unvaccinated. Three on ventilators, with another likely needing ventilation soon.
Hospitals around the state are overwhelmed by another surge of COVID-19 patients and an influx of people needing other care, and rural hospitals are especially stretched to the limit, administrators say. With flu season starting, holiday gatherings ripe for spreading illness and the emerging omicron variant of the coronavirus showing signs of unprecedented transmission, the situation could soon become even more dire.
In Medford, a city of 4,300 people where many jobs involve making windows, cheese or frozen pizza, hospital workers feel frustration from being in the county with the state’s lowest COVID-19 vaccination rate. Just 34.5% of residents in Taylor County had received at least one dose as of Friday, compared to 61.3% statewide and 79.9% in Dane County.
Many of the COVID-19 patients in Medford are in their 30s, 40s or 50s, younger than during the surge a year ago, before vaccines became available and were widely adopted by older adults.
“It’s saddening and frustrating to see so many people here who might not have had to be here if they had been vaccinated,” Woelfel said. “I personally haven’t had a person yet who says they wish they had been vaccinated. I’m waiting for that day.”
Since the pandemic began, 26 of the hospital’s COVID-19 patients have died. As of Friday, 106 of the 137 COVID-19 patients at Aspirus’ 17 hospitals in Wisconsin and Michigan’s Upper Peninsula were not fully vaccinated, including at least 39 of the 43 in intensive care.
But Faude said many people in the area distrust health care workers. Some demand that their loved ones be treated with ivermectin, an anti-parasitic livestock pill that doctors say is not suitable for humans with COVID-19, she said. Skepticism of vaccination seems entrenched, she said.
“They feel like it’s this big hoax that the government is trying to push on people, and so they don’t trust where the vaccine’s coming from or the intentions behind it,” Faude said.
CEO Dale Hustedt also sees denial in the community. “They refuse to accept that COVID is here and that it’s real and that people are dying from it,” he said."
~~~
So congrats to Fox and the stupid unnatural carnal knowledgeing anti-vaxxers here and everywhere.
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Watch now: Rural Wisconsin hospitals 'burning on the inside' with COVID-19 surge
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/health-med-fit/watch-now-rural-wisconsin-hospitals-burning-on-the-inside-with-covid-19-surge/article_5a8c8486-e99d-5f41-ac6b-f1443ccab90e.html
"MEDFORD — Leaders at Aspirus Medford Hospital gathered this week to assess their situation: 19 patients, double the regular load. Twelve with COVID-19, 11 of them unvaccinated. Three on ventilators, with another likely needing ventilation soon.
Hospitals around the state are overwhelmed by another surge of COVID-19 patients and an influx of people needing other care, and rural hospitals are especially stretched to the limit, administrators say. With flu season starting, holiday gatherings ripe for spreading illness and the emerging omicron variant of the coronavirus showing signs of unprecedented transmission, the situation could soon become even more dire.
In Medford, a city of 4,300 people where many jobs involve making windows, cheese or frozen pizza, hospital workers feel frustration from being in the county with the state’s lowest COVID-19 vaccination rate. Just 34.5% of residents in Taylor County had received at least one dose as of Friday, compared to 61.3% statewide and 79.9% in Dane County.
Many of the COVID-19 patients in Medford are in their 30s, 40s or 50s, younger than during the surge a year ago, before vaccines became available and were widely adopted by older adults.
“It’s saddening and frustrating to see so many people here who might not have had to be here if they had been vaccinated,” Woelfel said. “I personally haven’t had a person yet who says they wish they had been vaccinated. I’m waiting for that day.”
Since the pandemic began, 26 of the hospital’s COVID-19 patients have died. As of Friday, 106 of the 137 COVID-19 patients at Aspirus’ 17 hospitals in Wisconsin and Michigan’s Upper Peninsula were not fully vaccinated, including at least 39 of the 43 in intensive care.
But Faude said many people in the area distrust health care workers. Some demand that their loved ones be treated with ivermectin, an anti-parasitic livestock pill that doctors say is not suitable for humans with COVID-19, she said. Skepticism of vaccination seems entrenched, she said.
“They feel like it’s this big hoax that the government is trying to push on people, and so they don’t trust where the vaccine’s coming from or the intentions behind it,” Faude said.
CEO Dale Hustedt also sees denial in the community. “They refuse to accept that COVID is here and that it’s real and that people are dying from it,” he said."
~~~
So congrats to Fox and the stupid unnatural carnal knowledgeing anti-vaxxers here and everywhere.
Thin the herd
-
Watch now: Rural Wisconsin hospitals 'burning on the inside' with COVID-19 surge
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/health-med-fit/watch-now-rural-wisconsin-hospitals-burning-on-the-inside-with-covid-19-surge/article_5a8c8486-e99d-5f41-ac6b-f1443ccab90e.html
"MEDFORD — Leaders at Aspirus Medford Hospital gathered this week to assess their situation: 19 patients, double the regular load. Twelve with COVID-19, 11 of them unvaccinated. Three on ventilators, with another likely needing ventilation soon.
Hospitals around the state are overwhelmed by another surge of COVID-19 patients and an influx of people needing other care, and rural hospitals are especially stretched to the limit, administrators say. With flu season starting, holiday gatherings ripe for spreading illness and the emerging omicron variant of the coronavirus showing signs of unprecedented transmission, the situation could soon become even more dire.
In Medford, a city of 4,300 people where many jobs involve making windows, cheese or frozen pizza, hospital workers feel frustration from being in the county with the state’s lowest COVID-19 vaccination rate. Just 34.5% of residents in Taylor County had received at least one dose as of Friday, compared to 61.3% statewide and 79.9% in Dane County.
Many of the COVID-19 patients in Medford are in their 30s, 40s or 50s, younger than during the surge a year ago, before vaccines became available and were widely adopted by older adults.
“It’s saddening and frustrating to see so many people here who might not have had to be here if they had been vaccinated,” Woelfel said. “I personally haven’t had a person yet who says they wish they had been vaccinated. I’m waiting for that day.”
Since the pandemic began, 26 of the hospital’s COVID-19 patients have died. As of Friday, 106 of the 137 COVID-19 patients at Aspirus’ 17 hospitals in Wisconsin and Michigan’s Upper Peninsula were not fully vaccinated, including at least 39 of the 43 in intensive care.
But Faude said many people in the area distrust health care workers. Some demand that their loved ones be treated with ivermectin, an anti-parasitic livestock pill that doctors say is not suitable for humans with COVID-19, she said. Skepticism of vaccination seems entrenched, she said.
“They feel like it’s this big hoax that the government is trying to push on people, and so they don’t trust where the vaccine’s coming from or the intentions behind it,” Faude said.
CEO Dale Hustedt also sees denial in the community. “They refuse to accept that COVID is here and that it’s real and that people are dying from it,” he said."
~~~
So congrats to Fox and the stupid unnatural carnal knowledgeing anti-vaxxers here and everywhere.
Yeah, but some anonymous interwebs poster has anecdotal evidence that the above isn't true. And really, who are we supposed to believe?
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During Covid times .. bottoms up, Wisconsin.
https://wispolicyforum.org/research/a-sobering-trend-alcohol-deaths-up-sharply-in-wisconsin/
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During Covid times .. bottoms up, Wisconsin.
https://wispolicyforum.org/research/a-sobering-trend-alcohol-deaths-up-sharply-in-wisconsin/
I mean, are they deaths from alcohol or did they have underlying conditions? This is the government trying to control you, open your eyes sheeple
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During Covid times .. bottoms up, Wisconsin.
https://wispolicyforum.org/research/a-sobering-trend-alcohol-deaths-up-sharply-in-wisconsin/
From booze or with booze?
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I mean, are they deaths from alcohol or did they have underlying conditions? This is the government trying to control you, open your eyes sheeple
Honestly, the cause of 100% of deaths is cardiac and respiratory arrest coincident with a cessation of neurological function. Any other mechanism that contributes to those three factors is merely coincident or contributing, but not causative.
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The local sewage district that has been tracking coronavirus in the wastewater since the beginning of the pandemic, has seen a pretty distinct drop-off in the past week. That mirrors the state's positives, which have also decreased the last few days.
Looks like good news.
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The local sewage district that has been tracking coronavirus in the wastewater since the beginning of the pandemic, has seen a pretty distinct drop-off in the past week. That mirrors the state's positives, which have also decreased the last few days.
Looks like good news.
I haven't researched deeply, but this research seems to be pretty good in terms of following trends. I think Connecticut or another northeast state has been doing it thoroughly since the beginning
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I haven't researched deeply, but this research seems to be pretty good in terms of following trends. I think Connecticut or another northeast state has been doing it thoroughly since the beginning
It seems like a pretty good leading indicator.
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I haven't researched deeply, but this research seems to be pretty good in terms of following trends. I think Connecticut or another northeast state has been doing it thoroughly since the beginning
Connecticut, yes. Yale scientist discovered the procedure.
There has been a huge drop in the last week plus of monitoring so they feel the wave is subsiding very quickly.
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Do you guys have any charts/graphs demonstrating sewage and how it trends to cases/hospitalizations/deaths?
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I haven't researched deeply, but this research seems to be pretty good in terms of following trends. I think Connecticut or another northeast state has been doing it thoroughly since the beginning
Our local city has been doing it as well. Major drop this week as well. It has previously tracked pretty close before as a good leading indicator. Will look and see if they have a chart.
Updated - chart here:
https://loxahatcheeriver.org/wastewater-surveillance/
Story here:
https://cbs12.com/news/local/raw-sewage-indicates-covid-likely-retreating
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Do you guys have any charts/graphs demonstrating sewage and how it trends to cases/hospitalizations/deaths?
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/wastewater.htm
Wisconsin has a really nice site where you can compare data to cases in that sewer district.
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Do you guys have any charts/graphs demonstrating sewage and how it trends to cases/hospitalizations/deaths?
Bet you thought you'd never be typing that.
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Dane Co is mask free starting March 1.
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Dane Co is mask free starting March 1.
2025 or were they slightly more rational than you expected?
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Wow, now we know for sure when covid is officially over. Shockin', tymed perfectly to coincide with da State of da Onion address dat FD Joe will stumble thru dat evenin', hey?
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OK roqqet
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Wow, now we know for sure when covid is officially over. Shockin', tymed perfectly to coincide with da State of da Onion address dat FD Joe will stumble thru dat evenin', hey?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftpc4fwcDfk
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Dane Co is mask free starting March 1.
One of these days, you're going to start believing me.
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OK roqqet
Do we know if they are related?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftpc4fwcDfk
And republicans are now demanding that Joe take a mental competency test? Where the h@ll were they the last 5 years?
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Wow, now we know for sure when covid is officially over. Shockin', tymed perfectly to coincide with da State of da Onion address dat FD Joe will stumble thru dat evenin', hey?
throwin smoke for cankles and her roomie, eyn'a?
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And republicans are now demanding that Joe take a mental competency test? Where the h@ll were they the last 5 years?
They’ve been looking at Melania’s nudes
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https://mobile.twitter.com/MikeCurkov/status/1494371365323001866
Such a weird hill to die on for so many for so long.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/MikeCurkov/status/1494371365323001866
Such a weird hill to die on for so many for so long.
If your point is that cloth masks don't work as well as n95s... Well no kidding. Especially against Omicron.
You're trying to have a debate with people who don't disagree with you, and that is what is truly weird.
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And republicans are now demanding that Joe take a mental competency test? Where the h@ll were they the last 5 years?
Dead on - Joe should have taken the test 5 years ago and saved us all this agony.
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Dead on - Joe should have taken the test 5 years ago and saved us all this agony.
It should be something everyone who runs for POTUS has to do.
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Dead on - Joe should have taken the test 5 years ago and saved us all this agony.
Agony? LOL...OK.
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It should be something everyone who runs for POTUS has to do.
Right after they disclose their taxes.
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If your point is that cloth masks don't work as well as n95s... Well no kidding. Especially against Omicron.
You're trying to have a debate with people who don't disagree with you, and that is what is truly weird.
which was known and obvious from day 1. For the n95s to have the efficacy you're suggesting the wearer needs to be professionally fit tested and those things are awful to wear. If you're suggesting thats what you want kids to be doing, good luck with that.
There were a few people on here for the last 18 months who were railing against these school mask mandates suggesting they don't make a lick of difference. We were called mouth breathing conspiracy theorists and now that there is data proving we were right you just shift the talking points to, "well duh n95s are preferred". Talk about intellectual dishonesty, goodness.
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If your point is that cloth masks don't work as well as n95s... Well no kidding. Especially against Omicron.
You're trying to have a debate with people who don't disagree with you, and that is what is truly weird.
Also is the Omicron variant somehow a smaller enveloped virus then delta, alpha, and the other variants. Not sure what pointing out Omicron specifically has anything to do with the mask filtration efficacy.
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which was known and obvious from day 1. For the n95s to have the efficacy you're suggesting the wearer needs to be professionally fit tested and those things are awful to wear. If you're suggesting thats what you want kids to be doing, good luck with that.
There were a few people on here for the last 18 months who were railing against these school mask mandates suggesting they don't make a lick of difference. We were called mouth breathing conspiracy theorists and now that there is data proving we were right you just shift the talking points to, "well duh n95s are preferred". Talk about intellectual dishonesty, goodness.
Lord are you dishonest. Talk about shifting the goalposts. The reason no one takes you seriously is because you are a liar.
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Lord are you dishonest. Talk about shifting the goalposts. The reason no one takes you seriously is because you are a liar.
Change your screen name to Ned Price.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/MikeCurkov/status/1494371365323001866
Such a weird hill to die on for so many for so long.
These are the dumbest studies, either way. Your experimental group is literally at home being exposed by family members without a mask for up to 18 hours a day/ 24 on the weekend. It says nothing about school transmission.
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which was known and obvious from day 1. For the n95s to have the efficacy you're suggesting the wearer needs to be professionally fit tested and those things are awful to wear. If you're suggesting thats what you want kids to be doing, good luck with that.
There were a few people on here for the last 18 months who were railing against these school mask mandates suggesting they don't make a lick of difference. We were called mouth breathing conspiracy theorists and now that there is data proving we were right you just shift the talking points to, "well duh n95s are preferred". Talk about intellectual dishonesty, goodness.
I going to go back to one of my favorites.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
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If da teecher izant teechan, da student kant luren, aina?
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If da teecher izant teechan, da student kant luren, aina?
You ever hear the phrase, "don't waste your breath?"
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Try as hard as you want, you'll never be able to teach a pig calculus
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Pigs got know bizniss beain' inn calculus klass, hey?
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which was known and obvious from day 1. For the n95s to have the efficacy you're suggesting the wearer needs to be professionally fit tested and those things are awful to wear. If you're suggesting thats what you want kids to be doing, good luck with that.
There were a few people on here for the last 18 months who were railing against these school mask mandates suggesting they don't make a lick of difference. We were called mouth breathing conspiracy theorists and now that there is data proving we were right you just shift the talking points to, "well duh n95s are preferred". Talk about intellectual dishonesty, goodness.
paceman- there are going to be more things coming out that the heavy breathers here are going to have to walk back, but they won't. too many knee jerkers here, taking morning joe, doc fettucine, CDC, cnn and msnbc, nytimes and WHO for gospel while the real science was being shut down. in order problem solve, we need an open dialogue. with this virus, which was carelessly handled (to be very generous)out of the wuhan lab being so unique, we needed full on science without the advocacy groups
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paceman- there are going to be more things coming out that the heavy breathers here are going to have to walk back, but they won't. too many knee jerkers here, taking morning joe, doc fettucine, CDC, cnn and msnbc, nytimes and WHO for gospel while the real science was being shut down. in order problem solve, we need an open dialogue. with this virus, which was carelessly handled (to be very generous)out of the wuhan lab being so unique, we needed full on science without the advocacy groups
8 of 10 on the Buffon scale. Lack of ellipses is disappointing.
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paceman- there are going to be more things coming out that the heavy breathers here are going to have to walk back, but they won't. too many knee jerkers here, taking morning joe, doc fettucine, CDC, cnn and msnbc, nytimes and WHO for gospel while the real science was being shut down. in order problem solve, we need an open dialogue. with this virus, which was carelessly handled (to be very generous)out of the wuhan lab being so unique, we needed full on science without the advocacy groups
Heavy breathers? You have multiple chins, so chill out.
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paceman- there are going to be more things coming out that the heavy breathers here are going to have to walk back, but they won't. too many knee jerkers here, taking morning joe, doc fettucine, CDC, cnn and msnbc, nytimes and WHO for gospel while the real science was being shut down. in order problem solve, we need an open dialogue. with this virus, which was carelessly handled (to be very generous)out of the wuhan lab being so unique, we needed full on science without the advocacy groups
It is astonishing that no matter how many times you make a fool out of yourself, no matter how many times you bring up moronic conspiracy theories, and no matter how many times you predict "things coming out" which never do, you still show not even a scintilla of embarrassment or self-reflection.
The Pooba of Buffons.