Tomorrow's game is sold out

[jesmu84]

1. Isn't this the case 99 percent of the time?
2. False choice fallacy.
3. Time allotted to them = years of NCAA eligibility = dumb logic.
The time allotted to Jae is the rest of his life.

But doesn't that affect APR?

[Cheeks]

Is Jae worse off because he hasn't gotten his degree?? Nope, not one bit. sIs MU as a University worse off because he didn't?? Not one single bit. No harm, no foul. Jae is a great representative of the University and in fact, I'd wager MU has benefited from his fame.

Then let's stop the facade that we want kids to earn degrees or at least make progress toward them in the hope of graduating within the APR mandated time period since it doesn't matter apparently. 

Sure we benefit from guys in the NBA and the publicity that comes with it.  The university has also benefited from all kinds of graduates, too.  That isn't the point.  MU made the appropriate change for a reason....they remembered we were an institution of higher learning first and had an athletic program / basketball program that serves at the discretion of the university, not the other way around.

[MU82]

If the rules did not permit Buzz to offer Jae a scholarship, he would not have recruited Jae.

The rules now apparently prevent Wojo from offering an athlete/student like Jae a scholarship. So he won't.

Not sure how this is a complicated thing.

All a coach can do is operate under the rules -- both those of the NCAA and of the institution -- at the time he is coach. Al used the rules to the benefit of the program and the athlete/students, as has every Marquette coach since.

[panda]

Then let's stop the facade that we want kids to earn degrees or at least make progress toward them in the hope of graduating within the APR mandated time period since it doesn't matter apparently. 

Sure we benefit from guys in the NBA and the publicity that comes with it.  The university has also benefited from all kinds of graduates, too.  That isn't the point.  MU made the appropriate change for a reason....they remembered we were an institution of higher learning first and had an athletic program / basketball program that serves at the discretion of the university, not the other way around.

Then they took Henry and Wally Ellenson. Those two embodied the quote from Cardale Jones as he famously said, "We ain't come here to play school."

Are all Juco players bad? Absolutely not. Are all players out of high school angels? Absolutely not. The fact the administration is forcing athletics to eliminate evaluations and going after juco talent is wrong and goes against the universities mission.

[The Sultan]

Then they took Henry and Wally Ellenson. Those two embodied the quote from Cardale Jones as he famously said, "We ain't come here to play school."

Wally earned a degree from Marquette.

[#UnleashSean]

Then let's stop the facade that we want kids to earn degrees or at least make progress toward them in the hope of graduating within the APR mandated time period since it doesn't matter apparently. 

This is exactly what we've been trying to tell you.

[#UnleashSean]

Then they took Henry and Wally Ellenson. Those two embodied the quote from Cardale Jones as he famously said, "We ain't come here to play school."

Are all Juco players bad? Absolutely not. Are all players out of high school angels? Absolutely not. The fact the administration is forcing athletics to eliminate evaluations and going after juco talent is wrong and goes against the universities mission.

But wally graduated. Dumb argument.

[The Sultan]

But wally graduated. Dumb argument.

As did Cardale from OSU.

[panda]

Wally earned a degree from Marquette.

And he did everything he possibly could to not accomplish that. Rereading the previous posts, I may have slightly misinterpreted the discussion. However my point is that Wally "earned" a degree as a non Juco kid while he had to be begged to go to class and barely passed his cherry picked curriculum to succeed. Henry leaves campus the day after the season ends with no intention of completing any remaining school work.

Knowing all of this and maintaining Jucos are inherently toxic is wrong.

[jesmu84]

And he did everything he possibly could to not accomplish that. Rereading the previous posts, I may have slightly misinterpreted the discussion. However my point is that Wally "earned" a degree as a non Juco kid while he had to be begged to go to class and barely passed his cherry picked curriculum to succeed. Henry leaves campus the day after the season ends with no intention of completing any remaining school work.

Knowing all of this and maintaining Jucos are inherently toxic is wrong.

Has that been said by anyone here? By the admin or AD's office at MU?

[The Sultan]

And he did everything he possibly could to not accomplish that.

Lol...what?  That makes no sense.

[panda]

Lol...what?  That makes no sense.

Wally ain't come to Marquette to play school...

[panda]

Has that been said by anyone here? By the admin or AD's office at MU?

Not overtly but when was the last time we've been involved with a Juco?

[The Sultan]

Wally ain't come to Marquette to play school...

But he did with his degree as evidence. As did the guy you are quoting.

[The Sultan]

Not overtly but when was the last time we've been involved with a Juco?

We have been mentioned with a couple. Including one who took an official a couple years ago but went to Wichita instead.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not overtly but when was the last time we've been involved with a Juco?

Last spring Wojo and co was scouting a couple.

There is no ban on recruiting JUCOs, that is a myth. The reason we haven't seen many JUCOs is because there are very few JUCOs that are good enough at basketball to earn a scholarship at the Big East level.

[Pakuni]

As did Cardale from OSU.

But not in the all-important "allotted time."

[Pakuni]

But doesn't that affect APR?

Maybe?
So can kids leaving early for the pros. Better not recruit anyone with that kind of potential.
So can transfers. Better not recruit anyone who might transfer.

[WhoaJoe2020]

Last spring Wojo and co was scouting a couple.

There is no ban on recruiting JUCOs, that is a myth. The reason we haven't seen many JUCOs is because there are very few JUCOs that are good enough at basketball to earn a scholarship at the Big East level.

Then things have seriously changed in a short period of time.

[Herman Cain]

Last spring Wojo and co was scouting a couple.

There is no ban on recruiting JUCOs, that is a myth. The reason we haven't seen many JUCOs is because there are very few JUCOs that are good enough at basketball to earn a scholarship at the Big East level.

Here is a list put together by an observer of the JUCO scene on last years top 100 . It would be an interesting to see how their performance has been  this year. We know Galen Alexander got booted from Georgetown.

https://www.jucorecruiting.com/2019-juco-basketball-top-100-rankings

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Then things have seriously changed in a short period of time.

Not really. Buzz was just very well connected in the JUCO scene and got the best ones a few years in a row. It gave us an exaggerated sense of how much talent there is in that pool. Now that D1 is so large there is a place for almost everyone coming out of high school who has the talent to play at the D1 level.

[BallBoy]

Our supposed mission is to educate people with the purpose of getting a degree or at least the opportunity to get it if they put the work in.  We have often been above what the NCAA's bar of requirements have been, and that is a good thing.  The idea of renting someone that has no chance at that opportunity whether in the immediate timeframe while playing or years later if they comeback to finish that degree is squirmy at best.  I expect that from some schools. 

We have taken / recruited all kinds of kids to MU over the year with one ABSOLUTE guarantee...you do the work, pass your classes you can earn a degree from MU.  When that is made impossible, that is plain wrong.  Are we a university or something else?

Cheeks - this isn't a true statement or a correct interpretation of the events. Jae was given bad advice in that he went to a non-accredited school. Meaning his credits where meaningless but he used up two years of his eligibility playing ball.

He was recruited by Marquette and he was there for two years getting credits that got him closer to his degree. At any point after those two years he could finish up his degree and MU would not have had to charge him for it.

To say it was impossible to get while still eligible to play is one thing but not impossible to get period.

I would not be surprise to hear that Hutch did not pay Marquette to finish his degree.

If we truly look at the situation and say that is squirmy then Jae would not have been recruited by any school and he would not be in the NBA right now. The fact he got to play for MU exposes his talents to the NBA and he can always come back to get his degree.

[jesmu84]

Maybe?
So can kids leaving early for the pros. Better not recruit anyone with that kind of potential.
So can transfers. Better not recruit anyone who might transfer.

I was under the impression that if a player leaves early for the pros it does not affect APR at all.

Is that accurate?

[brewcity77]

1. Isn't this the case 99 percent of the time?
2. False choice fallacy.
3. Time allotted to them = years of NCAA eligibility = dumb logic.
The time allotted to Jae is the rest of his life.

1. Sure
2. Based on the actions of Marquette & the responses in here, clearly not.
3. Time is allotted by APR. You can say the rules are dumb & I won't disagree, but that doesn't poof them out of existence.

I love Jae. He was a great player and represents Marquette well. I embrace him as an alum. But the NCAA created a system that rewards players who are able to get on a graduation track during their scholarship time. Schools have been punished and given postseason bans because of APR. Marquette decided to make that a priority.

JUCOs are welcome as long as they are academically on track and have the skills to play at this level. As TAMU notes, those guys are rare. That's why Marquette worked so hard with Jameel McKay and why they have continued to occasionally recruit JUCOs like Darrall Willis.

[Dr. Blackheart]

1. Sure
2. Based on the actions of Marquette & the responses in here, clearly not.
3. Time is allotted by APR. You can say the rules are dumb & I won't disagree, but that doesn't poof them out of existence.

I love Jae. He was a great player and represents Marquette well. I embrace him as an alum. But the NCAA created a system that rewards players who are able to get on a graduation track during their scholarship time. Schools have been punished and given postseason bans because of APR. Marquette decided to make that a priority.

JUCOs are welcome as long as they are academically on track and have the skills to play at this level. As TAMU notes, those guys are rare. That's why Marquette worked so hard with Jameel McKay and why they have continued to occasionally recruit JUCOs like Darrall Willis.

Jae was the last JUCO to play basketball at Marquette. One of the (many) rubs between McKay and Buzz was Buzz wanted Jameel to redshirt to catch up on Larry's new academic requirements. Jae was cleared by the NCAA after summer school work and was approved independently by MU Admissions, which after Crean, student athletes' admissions were moved out of the AD. There are no JUCOs on any sports team at MU, nor have been for years when there was before. There were basketball JUCOs who were recruited to Oregon, Kansas, Louisville, Virginia and hey, even Georgia the last two years, among many other top basketball schools.

Draw your own slant.