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Author Topic: MU Coaching Candidates  (Read 63629 times)

JWags85

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1200 on: March 01, 2021, 05:48:48 PM »
Moser had a Final Four (yeah, it was an unusual set of circumstances, but still...) , has his team ranked and they play both ends of the floor very well. I like that they look so good on the court.

Have you watched them?

 

Stylistically, his teams are grinders.  That’s a definite fear for me.  There could be a lot of ugly basketball as he implements his program.  I’m talking nights where 50 is a big mountain for the team to climb in regards to scoring.

He is an excellent defensive coach, and his teams are very disciplined in that regard, but he’s had 1 team at Loyola in the top 200 in scoring, and that was the FF team at 175.  They can be downright brutal, and that’s talking about a “good” team this year that is ranked.  They don’t look good on the offensive end. Disciplined without a bunch of TOs? Sure. But it’s not usually pretty.

The risk with teams like that is lesser teams can stay in the game cause you’re rarely blowing people out cause you’re not scoring enough. Outside of Bennett’s very best teams, it happens with UVA plenty.

Uncle Rico

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1201 on: March 01, 2021, 05:55:35 PM »
Have you watched them?

 
He is an excellent defensive coach, and his teams are very disciplined in that regard, but he’s had 1 team at Loyola in the top 200 in scoring, and that was the FF team at 175.  They can be downright brutal, and that’s talking about a “good” team this year that is ranked.  They don’t look good on the offensive end. Disciplined without a bunch of TOs? Sure. But it’s not usually pretty.

The risk with teams like that is lesser teams can stay in the game cause you’re rarely blowing people out cause you’re not scoring enough. Outside of Bennett’s very best teams, it happens with UVA plenty.

Yup.  Majerus lost a game at SLU 49-20 to George Washington.  We’ve seen low tempo Badger teams score 32 points in a tournament game.  Winning cures a lot of that but you’d have to understand those types of games could always be lurking
How many

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1202 on: March 01, 2021, 06:43:35 PM »
Have you watched them?

 
He is an excellent defensive coach, and his teams are very disciplined in that regard, but he’s had 1 team at Loyola in the top 200 in scoring, and that was the FF team at 175.  They can be downright brutal, and that’s talking about a “good” team this year that is ranked.  They don’t look good on the offensive end. Disciplined without a bunch of TOs? Sure. But it’s not usually pretty.

The risk with teams like that is lesser teams can stay in the game cause you’re rarely blowing people out cause you’re not scoring enough. Outside of Bennett’s very best teams, it happens with UVA plenty.

His current team on O is 68th. MU fans would have to get used to his style of play. Wojo is a much better offensive coach but his D scheme is bad. ACC Finesse doesn't play in the adjustment-driven BE.

onepostdavis

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1203 on: March 01, 2021, 07:50:51 PM »
For the "if we fire Wojo, we're gonna lose our players" crowd:

First off, you just don't let that affect your willingness to make a coaching change.  At all.  Second, I was with someone close with Cam Marotta this weekend, they talk every week.  The topic of MUBB came up, as we were getting our asses kicked by UCONN, and it was mentioned that "half the players can't stand Wojo".  Which surprised me, since it seemed like despite our awful season, there was still buy-in from guys.  I experienced that firsthand.  But it was passed along that the postgame videos after a road win, North Carolina win, are always more performative.  Don't shoot the messenger.  But I don't think a change would make as much of a difference there as people think.

Would presumably cost us Jonas Aidoo and Stevie Mitchell, which would be a bummer, but at this point that's putting a band-aid on a bullet wound.  The problems are systemic and can only be fixed with a coaching change: player departures be damned.

5DollarPitcher

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1204 on: March 01, 2021, 07:55:46 PM »
For the "if we fire Wojo, we're gonna lose our players" crowd:

First off, you just don't let that affect your willingness to make a coaching change.  At all.  Second, I was with someone close with Cam Marotta this weekend, they talk every week.  The topic of MUBB came up, as we were getting our asses kicked by UCONN, and it was mentioned that "half the players can't stand Wojo".  Which surprised me, since it seemed like despite our awful season, there was still buy-in from guys.  I experienced that firsthand.  But it was passed along that the postgame videos after a road win, North Carolina win, are always more performative.  Don't shoot the messenger.  But I don't think a change would make as much of a difference there as people think.

Would presumably cost us Jonas Aidoo and Stevie Mitchell, which would be a bummer, but at this point that's putting a band-aid on a bullet wound.  The problems are systemic and can only be fixed with a coaching change: player departures be damned.
I’m going to choose to believe everything in this post because it basically confirms everything I’ve thought about Wojo and it makes the condescending know-nothing “good guy” Scoopers look like morons.

JWags85

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1205 on: March 01, 2021, 08:00:27 PM »
I’m going to choose to believe everything in this post because it basically confirms everything I’ve thought about Wojo and it makes the condescending know-nothing “good guy” Scoopers look like morons.

He can still be a good guy, but just an ineffective coach and leader which would not endear itself after awhile to top tier very competitive athletes who love to win

hairy worthen

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1206 on: March 01, 2021, 08:09:42 PM »
For the "if we fire Wojo, we're gonna lose our players" crowd:

First off, you just don't let that affect your willingness to make a coaching change.  At all.  Second, I was with someone close with Cam Marotta this weekend, they talk every week.  The topic of MUBB came up, as we were getting our asses kicked by UCONN, and it was mentioned that "half the players can't stand Wojo".  Which surprised me, since it seemed like despite our awful season, there was still buy-in from guys.  I experienced that firsthand.  But it was passed along that the postgame videos after a road win, North Carolina win, are always more performative.  Don't shoot the messenger.  But I don't think a change would make as much of a difference there as people think.

Would presumably cost us Jonas Aidoo and Stevie Mitchell, which would be a bummer, but at this point that's putting a band-aid on a bullet wound.  The problems are systemic and can only be fixed with a coaching change: player departures be damned.
If you ever played on any kind of team you know it's not unusual for half the players to hate the coach. It's a normal team dynamic, and not indicative of anything. The players obviously still have buy in to Wojo.

panda

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1207 on: March 01, 2021, 08:12:22 PM »
If you ever played on any kind of team you know it's not unusual for half the players to hate the coach. It's a normal team dynamic, and not indicative of anything. The players obviously still have buy in to Wojo.

Is it though?

CountryRoads

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1208 on: March 01, 2021, 08:12:37 PM »
I’m not reading too much into the “half the players can’t stand wojo” comment. Over half the players have had abysmal seasons and are hardly getting in the games. Would guess those are the ones who can’t stand him. The fact that the ones who likely “can’t stand” him aren’t even high major players to begin with is the bigger problem, IMO.

hairy worthen

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1209 on: March 01, 2021, 08:19:20 PM »
Is it though?
Yes it is. It doesn't mean the team is dysfunctional. As s coach you are not going to make everyone happy, nor should you. Having said that Wojo needs to go,

panda

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1210 on: March 01, 2021, 08:24:45 PM »
Yes it is. It doesn't mean the team is dysfunctional. As s coach you are not going to make everyone happy, nor should you. Having said that Wojo needs to go,

There’s a difference between players being unhappy with their roles and hating the coach.

Although then again, that probably goes hand in hand on a grossly underachieving team like
MU this year.

hairy worthen

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1211 on: March 01, 2021, 08:25:51 PM »
There’s a difference between players being unhappy with their roles and hating the coach.

Although then again, that probably goes hand in hand on a grossly underachieving team like
MU this year.
Agree

MUfan12

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1212 on: March 01, 2021, 08:27:47 PM »
This is a big nothingburger. Happens on every team.

It's more concerning if there are issues between players. We've seen what that does.

hairy worthen

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1213 on: March 01, 2021, 08:30:51 PM »
I’m not reading too much into the “half the players can’t stand wojo” comment. Over half the players have had abysmal seasons and are hardly getting in the games. Would guess those are the ones who can’t stand him. The fact that the ones who likely “can’t stand” him aren’t even high major players to begin with is the bigger problem, IMO.
Yes agree. If you are going to recruit one or two and dones then you have to recruit a team to go with them. The quality depth on this team is lacking and that's the problem.

NickelDimer

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1214 on: March 01, 2021, 08:31:43 PM »
For the "if we fire Wojo, we're gonna lose our players" crowd:

First off, you just don't let that affect your willingness to make a coaching change.  At all.  Second, I was with someone close with Cam Marotta this weekend, they talk every week.  The topic of MUBB came up, as we were getting our asses kicked by UCONN, and it was mentioned that "half the players can't stand Wojo".  Which surprised me, since it seemed like despite our awful season, there was still buy-in from guys.  I experienced that firsthand.  But it was passed along that the postgame videos after a road win, North Carolina win, are always more performative.  Don't shoot the messenger.  But I don't think a change would make as much of a difference there as people think.

Would presumably cost us Jonas Aidoo and Stevie Mitchell, which would be a bummer, but at this point that's putting a band-aid on a bullet wound.  The problems are systemic and can only be fixed with a coaching change: player departures be damned.
I don’t find this hard to believe whatsoever. I don’t see Wojo as some magnetic, likable personality at all. Now of course I don’t see him behind closed doors so I could be off base.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 08:34:19 PM by NickelDimer »
G.T.S.T

WithoutBias

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1215 on: March 01, 2021, 08:50:12 PM »
So a guy who got $0.00 in scholarship money to be a full time rag doll for the scholarship players under Wojo for 4 years and then decided he liked Wojo enough through all of that to become his GA is going around telling his buddies how much the team absolutely despises Wojo?

I'm picking up what you're putting down for sure.

JWags85

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1216 on: March 01, 2021, 09:02:49 PM »
So a guy who got $0.00 in scholarship money to be a full time rag doll for the scholarship players under Wojo for 4 years and then decided he liked Wojo enough through all of that to become his GA is going around telling his buddies how much the team absolutely despises Wojo?

I'm picking up what you're putting down for sure.

FWIW, I’m pretty sure Cam would have taken the same path if it was Buzz, Crean, or Mike Deane at the helm. He is born and bred Marquette running through his veins

WithoutBias

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1217 on: March 01, 2021, 09:07:10 PM »
FWIW, I’m pretty sure Cam would have taken the same path if it was Buzz, Crean, or Mike Deane at the helm. He is born and bred Marquette running through his veins

I agree, which is why I find it even harder to believe he’s telling company secrets that the team hates their coach.

Pakuni

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1218 on: March 01, 2021, 09:09:11 PM »
So a guy who got $0.00 in scholarship money to be a full time rag doll for the scholarship players under Wojo for 4 years and then decided he liked Wojo enough through all of that to become his GA is going around telling his buddies how much the team absolutely despises Wojo?

I'm picking up what you're putting down for sure.

Yeah, I'd 100 percent believe the statement that Wojo isn't universally beloved by his players. That's probably true for every coach.
I very much doubt Cam Marotta is going around telling that to randos.

onepostdavis

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1219 on: March 01, 2021, 09:11:15 PM »
I’m not reading too much into the “half the players can’t stand wojo” comment. Over half the players have had abysmal seasons and are hardly getting in the games. Would guess those are the ones who can’t stand him. The fact that the ones who likely “can’t stand” him aren’t even high major players to begin with is the bigger problem, IMO.

Bit of any oxymoron here, no?  Conflating fact with guesses and likelihood?  Then again that's Message Board 101.

Could it be that the players having "abysmal" seasons blame, in part, the coaching that has played an integral role in said abysmal season?

I'm not saying the entire team despises Wojo, but I was taken aback that a good number have genuine disdain for him as a coach: which lends to the opinion that this team wouldn't unanimously jump ship if he was ousted.

onepostdavis

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1220 on: March 01, 2021, 09:27:30 PM »
So a guy who got $0.00 in scholarship money to be a full time rag doll for the scholarship players under Wojo for 4 years and then decided he liked Wojo enough through all of that to become his GA is going around telling his buddies how much the team absolutely despises Wojo?

I'm picking up what you're putting down for sure.

I won't attempt to get into his mindset here, but if his endgame is to get into college coaching, being a GA for his alma mater/former coach is almost always someone's best bet.  I went to grade and high school and am good friends with Taylor Stormberg who walked on at Creighton years ago.  He had an offer and was going to GA with McDermott had he stayed in basketball.  I had a buddy who didn't enjoy student managing for Wojo at the tail end of his time at MU: and had he not decided to leave basketball entirely, would have gone the same route as Danny Mads and Cam solely out of practicality and convenience.

And simply because he played/works for a guy doesn't mean he can't be critical or honest about the current state of affairs.  This isn't North Korea...that we know.

This person and Cam are really close.  I think he's able to give an honest assessment of what's going on to someone he's closer with than his boss.

WithoutBias

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1221 on: March 01, 2021, 09:44:27 PM »
I won't attempt to get into his mindset here, but if his endgame is to get into college coaching, being a GA for his alma mater/former coach is almost always someone's best bet.  I went to grade and high school and am good friends with Taylor Stormberg who walked on at Creighton years ago.  He had an offer and was going to GA with McDermott had he stayed in basketball.  I had a buddy who didn't enjoy student managing for Wojo at the tail end of his time at MU: and had he not decided to leave basketball entirely, would have gone the same route as Danny Mads and Cam solely out of practicality and convenience.

And simply because he played/works for a guy doesn't mean he can't be critical or honest about the current state of affairs.  This isn't North Korea...that we know.

This person and Cam are really close.  I think he's able to give an honest assessment of what's going on to someone he's closer with than his boss.

Yeah and if his endgame is to get into college coaching he’s probably not going to be doing himself any favors by being a GA that is telling people who are going to let it get on MUScoop how much the players he’s working with hate his boss.

I don’t doubt that there are some players who don’t agree with how Wojo has treated them. That’s life with uber competitive athletes. They want to win and they want to play. The numbers game makes it impossible for everyone to achieve both of those things. Some kids will be unhappy. This is hardly earth shattering for Marquette. We were supposed to have a mass exodus when the Hausers left because everyone hated Wojo then too. Turned out only the Hausers left.

I’m also not buying that a bunch of 18-22 year old hyper competitive dudes are sitting around the locker room sulking after a road win and then some social media intern walks in and is like, “okay guys, Wojo is on his way to the locker room, let’s get a good one for the gram!” And the team’s like “Oh yeah you got it Timmy! Where’s my water bottle to spray the guy I hate?!” If it were me and I hated Wojo and I was asked to act up fake excitement, there’s 0.00% chance of that happening. But maybe this team is different.

5DollarPitcher

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1222 on: March 01, 2021, 09:54:38 PM »
Yeah and if his endgame is to get into college coaching he’s probably not going to be doing himself any favors by being a GA that is telling people who are going to let it get on MUScoop how much the players he’s working with hate his boss.
Isn’t it a fairly common (lazy) rebuttal here that MUScoop is an entirely inconsequential platform and no one with any connection to or decision making ability in or around the program is even aware of its existence? This statement would not be consistent with that fact pattern. You need to choose one.

onepostdavis

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1223 on: March 01, 2021, 10:44:44 PM »
Yeah and if his endgame is to get into college coaching he’s probably not going to be doing himself any favors by being a GA that is telling people who are going to let it get on MUScoop how much the players he’s working with hate his boss.

I don’t doubt that there are some players who don’t agree with how Wojo has treated them. That’s life with uber competitive athletes. They want to win and they want to play. The numbers game makes it impossible for everyone to achieve both of those things. Some kids will be unhappy. This is hardly earth shattering for Marquette. We were supposed to have a mass exodus when the Hausers left because everyone hated Wojo then too. Turned out only the Hausers left.

I’m also not buying that a bunch of 18-22 year old hyper competitive dudes are sitting around the locker room sulking after a road win and then some social media intern walks in and is like, “okay guys, Wojo is on his way to the locker room, let’s get a good one for the gram!” And the team’s like “Oh yeah you got it Timmy! Where’s my water bottle to spray the guy I hate?!” If it were me and I hated Wojo and I was asked to act up fake excitement, there’s 0.00% chance of that happening. But maybe this team is different.

I don't think passing comments along to a friend is some indictment on Cam himself.  The fact that this game of telephone made it to me and from me to Scoop is more a comment on me as a person than it is Cam.  I can guarantee you when it was shared it wasn't with the foresight "man this is gonna whip MUScoop into a frenzy in two weeks".  People are fed up with the program and willing to further share that kind of secondhand news.

Just because no one else immediately left when Sam and Joey left doesn't mean things were all rainbows and sunshine.  Guys were convinced to stay another season by people not named Steve Wojciechowski. Just months later, Ed Morrow literally told Wojo "unnatural carnal knowledge you" in the middle of a practice during the season, left the gym, and didn't say another word to the coaching staff.  Brendan Bailey turned down an opportunity for a starring role on this team when everyone knew his pro prospects were nonexistent.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe he's even playing basketball right now.  Could be because he's a new father.

Again, don't shoot the messenger.  I don't know the dynamics of their postgame interactions more than what was shared with me.  But simply a call for the crowd on here, who thinks because Wojo is giving spirited high fives that show up on Instagram that guys would crawl through broken glass for him, to pump the brakes.

JWags85

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Re: MU Coaching Candidates
« Reply #1224 on: March 01, 2021, 10:54:21 PM »
I’m also not buying that a bunch of 18-22 year old hyper competitive dudes are sitting around the locker room sulking after a road win and then some social media intern walks in and is like, “okay guys, Wojo is on his way to the locker room, let’s get a good one for the gram!” And the team’s like “Oh yeah you got it Timmy! Where’s my water bottle to spray the guy I hate?!” If it were me and I hated Wojo and I was asked to act up fake excitement, there’s 0.00% chance of that happening. But maybe this team is different.

Have you ever had teammates on a team you didn’t particularly loved? I played soccer with a dude that was a complete douche that I was often at odds with. But one time he hit me with a perfect cross that I angled into a goal for a late winner. I tackled him in a celebration that was as joyous and full of happy emotion as celebrating a huge Marquette win with a close friend. The joy of winning can temporarily buffer less than positive feelings.

So a big locker room celebration doesn’t have to mean they love the guy. Sometimes you just put your negative emotions aside and celebrate a win cause it’s fun and feels good. They don’t hate him to the level of not trying or transferring mid season. So it’s not crazy to think they can put stuff aside in certain moments