USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball

[Pakuni]

Sure.  That was part of it, but feel free to ignore some of the harshest ncaa penalties in history as a result of his regime...like they didn't happen.  Further pretend, like you and others have, that it had no or limited impact to the coaches that followed.  Also ignore that he knew when to get out.

I mean, if I made the argument you are making you would be all over me...absolutely all over me.

Nobody's denying that there were penalties. But the fact you continue to deny is that the penalties had no significant negative effect on the USC program, either financially or on the field. And certainly whatever penalties the program did suffer pale in comparison to the  benefits it accumulated as a result of Carroll's success.
Put it to you this way:
In the 10 years before Carroll, USC went 65-52-3 (.555), with zero top 10 finishes and two top 25 finishes.
In the 10 years since Carroll and the imposition of sanctions, USC has gone 87-44 (.644), with two top 10 finishes and five top 25 finishes so far (and potentially six this year).

So, despite these extraordinarily harsh penalties you're telling us about, USC football has been better off in their aftermath than they were in the years before Carroll and before sanctions.
The moral of the story is that cheating pays and the NCAA is either too spineless to stop it or, more likely, complicit through its inaction.

[79Warrior]

Well because their success was much less relevant because it was over a decade earlier.  From 1990 to present, a span of 30 seasons, USC has largely been good - but not great.  The only exception to that was the Pete Carroll era when they were undoubtedly great.  From 1990 to when Carroll took over, they went 79-61-4 with two bowl appearances.

Coaching hires matter.

[MU82]

So, despite these extraordinarily harsh penalties you're telling us about, USC football has been better off in their aftermath than they were in the years before Carroll and before sanctions.
The moral of the story is that cheating pays and the NCAA is either too spineless to stop it or, more likely, complicit through its inaction.

The real proof that cheating pays is what Carroll was able to do while cheating.

Coaches like him (and the ADs/university presidents who support/condone) weigh the pros and cons and they know the pros far outweigh the cons. By the time they get caught -- IF they ever get caught -- they will have won big and enriched themselves financially. And, as you show, the "punishment" -- IF it ever happens -- doesn't hurt that badly.

USC was decidedly better off for having cheated. The NCAA was/is powerless.

[The Sultan]

Yeah it's not as though Pete Carroll is walking around with any black mark on his record.  It hasn't hurt his reputation in the least.

[Cheeks]

Yeah it's not as though Pete Carroll is walking around with any black mark on his record.  It hasn't hurt his reputation in the least.

Here in So Cal that isn't the case.  Also plenty of hits against him over the years as a cheater.  When he did an interview a few years ago about USC he got crushed for his role there.

[79Warrior]

Here in So Cal that isn't the case.  Also plenty of hits against him over the years as a cheater.  When he did an interview a few years ago about USC he got crushed for his role there.

That's your narrative dude. Hardly makes it true. You are not the only person who lives in So Cal. Los of alums and donors don't have the issues with Pete you spout. I worked in sports at ABC for years and he was well liked by many. He certainly had his detractors, but you keep shilling your stuff. Hope it makes you feel good.

[WhiteTrash]

That's your narrative dude. Hardly makes it true. You are not the only person who lives in So Cal. Los of alums and donors don't have the issues with Pete you spout. I worked in sports at ABC for years and he was well liked by many. He certainly had his detractors, but you keep shilling your stuff. Hope it makes you feel good.

I don't live in SoCal. Don't like or hate USC and I like the NFL more than college football. As a sports fan I can tell you I have heard that Pete cheated at USC and ran to the NFL to avoid the NCAA on national sports TV and radio at least 100 times since he left USC (more frequently since the FBI CBB scandal). True or not, its the national narrative about Pete.

[Pakuni]

I don't live in SoCal. Don't like or hate USC and I like the NFL more than college football. As a sports fan I can tell you I have heard that Pete cheated at USC and ran to the NFL to avoid the NCAA on national sports TV and radio at least 100 times since he left USC (more frequently since the FBI CBB scandal). True or not, its the national narrative about Pete.

Now you're just making stuff up.

On condition of anonymity, several current and former employees of the Seahawks with direct knowledge of events talked candidly this week with Sportspress Northwest about the rapid-fire decisions that led to the hires of Pete Carroll as coach and John Schneider as general manager, the men primarily responsible for having Seattle on the edge of its first major pro sports championship in 35 years.
The sources also sought to dispel what they viewed as myths surrounding the hires, notably that Carroll had advance understanding of the gravity of NCAA sanctions that were about to hit his employer, USC, over cash payments made by a representative of an agent to the family of star Trojans running back Reggie Bush.
As far as looking at another job, "Pete at the time was going nowhere," said one source with knowledge of the situation at USC. "He and (then-athletic director) Mike Garrett were certain the worst it would be, was some scholarship losses. They were planning around it for the next season.
"We called him. He didn't call us. He was king of LA."

https://crosscut.com/2014/01/how-seattle-seahawks-hired-pete-carroll-usc

Read the whole story. Contrary to your version of events, Carroll was not fleeing USC. He had to be convinced (with $33 million and complete control) to leave.

[Cheeks]

That's your narrative dude. Hardly makes it true. You are not the only person who lives in So Cal. Los of alums and donors don't have the issues with Pete you spout. I worked in sports at ABC for years and he was well liked by many. He certainly had his detractors, but you keep shilling your stuff. Hope it makes you feel good.

The statement made by Sultan was that "it hasn't hurt his reputation in the least."  That is simply not a true statement.

Yes, Pete is super well liked...his like ability isn't in questions.  I don't see anyone questioning his like ability.  All kinds of really nice, likable people that still do things that get their programs in trouble, etc.

You keep pretending St Pete wasn't CEO of the football program that got hit very hard by the NCAA including voiding a national title, forfeiting a number of games, huge scholarship reductions, post season bans, the Heisman trophy returned, etc, etc....St. Pete very nice, but get real. 

[Cheeks]

Now you're just making stuff up.

On condition of anonymity, several current and former employees of the Seahawks with direct knowledge of events talked candidly this week with Sportspress Northwest about the rapid-fire decisions that led to the hires of Pete Carroll as coach and John Schneider as general manager, the men primarily responsible for having Seattle on the edge of its first major pro sports championship in 35 years.
The sources also sought to dispel what they viewed as myths surrounding the hires, notably that Carroll had advance understanding of the gravity of NCAA sanctions that were about to hit his employer, USC, over cash payments made by a representative of an agent to the family of star Trojans running back Reggie Bush.
As far as looking at another job, "Pete at the time was going nowhere," said one source with knowledge of the situation at USC. "He and (then-athletic director) Mike Garrett were certain the worst it would be, was some scholarship losses. They were planning around it for the next season.
"We called him. He didn't call us. He was king of LA."

https://crosscut.com/2014/01/how-seattle-seahawks-hired-pete-carroll-usc

Read the whole story. Contrary to your version of events, Carroll was not fleeing USC. He had to be convinced (with $33 million and complete control) to leave.

Weird you didn't quote some of the players that said he got out while the house was burning.  Maybe TAMU will do an investigation on which articles you chose to quote or didn't.   

St Pete.  Carroll's cheating...  https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/14/pete-carrolls-own-cheating-could-make-it-harder-for-usc-on-appeal/

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Weird you didn't quote some of the players that said he got out while the house was burning.  Maybe TAMU will do an investigation on which articles you chose to quote or didn't.   

I noticed you ran away from that thread after my "investigation" (aka reading the article you linked in a post). I was simply giving you the opportunity to live up to your promise:

If I am wrong I will correct it.

You are always talking about how you wish people would admit when they make a mistake or are wrong. You still have the chance to walk the walk.

[WhiteTrash]

Now you're just making stuff up.

On condition of anonymity, several current and former employees of the Seahawks with direct knowledge of events talked candidly this week with Sportspress Northwest about the rapid-fire decisions that led to the hires of Pete Carroll as coach and John Schneider as general manager, the men primarily responsible for having Seattle on the edge of its first major pro sports championship in 35 years.
The sources also sought to dispel what they viewed as myths surrounding the hires, notably that Carroll had advance understanding of the gravity of NCAA sanctions that were about to hit his employer, USC, over cash payments made by a representative of an agent to the family of star Trojans running back Reggie Bush.
As far as looking at another job, "Pete at the time was going nowhere," said one source with knowledge of the situation at USC. "He and (then-athletic director) Mike Garrett were certain the worst it would be, was some scholarship losses. They were planning around it for the next season.
"We called him. He didn't call us. He was king of LA."

https://crosscut.com/2014/01/how-seattle-seahawks-hired-pete-carroll-usc

Read the whole story. Contrary to your version of events, Carroll was not fleeing USC. He had to be convinced (with $33 million and complete control) to leave.

I think you need to re-read my post.

[MU82]

The statement made by Sultan was that "it hasn't hurt his reputation in the least."  That is simply not a true statement.

Yes, Pete is super well liked...his like ability isn't in questions.  I don't see anyone questioning his like ability.  All kinds of really nice, likable people that still do things that get their programs in trouble, etc.

You keep pretending St Pete wasn't CEO of the football program that got hit very hard by the NCAA including voiding a national title, forfeiting a number of games, huge scholarship reductions, post season bans, the Heisman trophy returned, etc, etc....St. Pete very nice, but get real.

I will slightly amend Sultan's statement:

It has not materially hurt Carroll in any measurable way.

He is rich, highly regarded, successful, liked. He went to a better job and he has done very well in it. If he left the Seahawks to go back on the open market, he would have a deluge of huge-money offers.

Maybe some folks in Southern California feel betrayed by him or lost respect for him. Maybe some folks in other parts of the country feel the same. But we all should be as hurt as Pete Carroll was "hurt" by the aftermath of his time at USC.

[The Sultan]

It hasn't hurt his reputation.  Well maybe with some USC fans, but he has been considered a very good coach in the NFL for quite awhile now.  And even if the thought at the time was that he was running from USC when he went to Seattle, he rapidly proved that could succeed at the highest levels of the sport.

The NCAA penalties haven't hurt him or the USC program substantially.  What has hurt USC was a series of piss-poor personnel decisions.

[Cheeks]

Forbes listed Carroll as the top NFL cheater in 2016...leopard spots.

The college admissions scandal winding through the courts still, Rick Singer was the ring leader and good old Pete's org Win Forever was a strategic partner....interesting.

Carroll's defense of Reggie Bush and all of the "sports marketers" on campus was rightly blown out of the water by the NCAA in their final report, Pete knew that was coming as did most people out here.  The walls closing in.

In an amazing coincidence of timing, the NCAA began investigating USC that took several years and Pete quits prior to the leveled sanctions...talk about timing the market...he's good.  Seattle throws him a lifeline, he takes it...goes on to get busted no fewer that 5 times in Seattle by the NFL for cheating....but he is a very nice guy...people love him.  Reminds me of a certain basketball coach in Bruce Pearl, funny guy, good coach, life of the party, very charismatic, just cannot seem to avoid controversy with the damn rule book.

[The Sultan]

Forbes listed Carroll as the top NFL cheater in 2016...leopard spots.

Oh my.  However will he recover from THAT?

[Uncle Rico]

Oh my.  However will he recover from THAT?

How could the Seahawks keep him?  I bet if he wanted to, USC would never take him back.  Can't imagine any NCAA institution would touch him

[rocket surgeon]

Oh my.  However will he recover from THAT?

so, the moral(or lack thereof) of the story is...just win baby.  the means justify the ends?  got it.  hopefully, that isn't the accepted modus operandi of the most of us here

[Uncle Rico]

so, the moral(or lack thereof) of the story is...just win baby.  the means justify the ends?  got it.  hopefully, that isn't the accepted modus operandi of the most of us here

Some people think coaches punching players is fine as long as you win.  🤷🏼‍♂️

[lawdog77]

It hasn't hurt his reputation.  Well maybe with some USC fans, but he has been considered a very good coach in the NFL for quite awhile now.  And even if the thought at the time was that he was running from USC when he went to Seattle, he rapidly proved that could succeed at the highest levels of the sport.

The NCAA penalties haven't hurt him or the USC program substantially.  What has hurt USC was a series of piss-poor personnel decisions.

Maybe the coaches/staff that USC wanted would not take the job because of the NCAA investigation/sanctions. Its not always binary

[The Sultan]

so, the moral(or lack thereof) of the story is...just win baby.  the means justify the ends?  got it.  hopefully, that isn't the accepted modus operandi of the most of us here

Uh...no.  Please pay attention to the topic.

The point is that the NCAA violations had no impact on Carroll's success or his reputation outside of USC. 

[MU82]

so, the moral(or lack thereof) of the story is...just win baby.  the means justify the ends?  got it.  hopefully, that isn't the accepted modus operandi of the most of us here

The moral of the story, Boo-Boo, is that Yogi didn't know what he was talking about.

Despite your buddy's claim, cheating did not hurt Carroll, and, as others have pointed out, USC has performed much better post-Carroll cheating than it did pre-Carroll cheating.

This is not a thumbs-up for cheating. I wish nobody did it. It simply is your buddy making stuff up in his desperate attempt to prove points that aren't there. As usual.

[cheebs09]

Curious the cheating done by Carroll. Not challenging you, just hadn't heard of the five instances.

I'm surprised someone would have anyone other than Belichick at the top of that list.

[The Sultan]

Maybe the coaches/staff that USC wanted would not take the job because of the NCAA investigation/sanctions. Its not always binary

Well, Lane Kiffin was considered a "bold move."  He was a former NFL coach who was sitting coach of an SEC power at Tennessee who once was Carroll's offensive coordinator at USC.

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/sports/ncaafootball/13kiffin.html

Steve Sarkisian was a successful coach from Washington who had USC roots.  Apparently he was the second choice behind Chris Petersen, but according to AD Pat Haden "was the only one to be offered the job."  (Which I know is AD speak.)

https://www.espn.com/los-angeles/college-football/story/_/id/10068739/usc-trojans-hire-steve-sarkisian-washington-huskies-new-football-coach

Now Clay Helton was serving as interim when Sarkisian was put on leave.  According to this article they did a thorough search but who knows.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/14258891/clay-helton-named-permanent-coach-usc-trojans


So I don't think the evidence suggests anything but that Kiffin and Sarkisian were anything but two of their top choices.  And maybe Sark would have eventually succeeded had it not been for his alcohol issues.  Who knows about Helton.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Curious the cheating done by Carroll. Not challenging you, just hadn't heard of the five instances.

I'm surprised someone would have anyone other than Belichick at the top of that list.

The Seahawks and Carroll were disciplined earlier this week for violating league rules that prohibit excessive contact during offseason workouts. Seattle will be fined $400,000 and lose a fifth-round pick in the 2017 draft for a June 6 OTA session in which two players "banged heads" during a helmet-less practice. The team will also lose the first week of organized team activities next year and Carroll was slapped with a $200,000 penalty as well.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexreimer/2016/09/22/pete-carroll-not-bill-belichick-should-be-considered-the-nfls-foremost-cheater/#18523de1579f