USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball

[Uncle Rico]

Maybe it was the $7M salary the Seahawks offered him to coach at the highest level of his profession in place of the $4.4M he was making at a place he'd already accomplished everything he could accomplish?

Anyways, SUPERBAR! But Cheeks wanted some attention so here it is, having nothing to do with Marquette basketball.

My bad.  I'm done

[79Warrior]

This desperation from Cheeks is hilarious. He really thinks the reason USC isn't what they were before is because of sanctions?  And not a series of terrible coaching decisions by a couple of terrible athletic directors?

Cheeks is a joke.

[Pakuni]

I think the reason USC started to fall off after 2009 had mostly to do with Pete Caroll leaving for the Seahawks.

So you're saying that no longer having one of the best football coaches on the planet running the show had a negative effect on USC's program.
Cheeks begs to differ.
USC was a total juggernaut for the decade+ before Carroll arrived .. (checks record).
Oh

It's weird how every time Cheeks gets gutted around here he just happens to run into an anonymous expert who says he's totally right.

[panda]

So you're saying that no longer having one of the best football coaches on the planet running the show had a negative effect on USC's program.
Cheeks begs to differ.
USC was a total juggernaut for the decade+ before Carroll arrived .. (checks record).
Oh

It's weird how every time Cheeks gets gutted around here he just happens to run into an anonymous expert who says he's totally right.

No I really think it must be the NCAA sanctions that forced USC to fall out of the top 5. It had nothing to do with USC going from Pete Carroll to Lane Kiffin......LOL

[Cheeks]

So you're saying that no longer having one of the best football coaches on the planet running the show had a negative effect on USC's program.
Cheeks begs to differ.
USC was a total juggernaut for the decade+ before Carroll arrived .. (checks record).
Oh

It's weird how every time Cheeks gets gutted around here he just happens to run into an anonymous expert who says he's totally right.

It's also weird that the most serious NCAA penalities ever handed down to USC were a result of what happened when Carroll was there.  Hmm.  So odd, but heads go into the sand. 

Anonymous expert?  Nope.  All here for you to read...Feel free to read at your leisure.  Strangely, when you compete with 40% less scholarship players than your opponents it has a negative effect.  Who knew.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/la-sp-usc-ncaa-sanctions-20140608-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/11/sports/ncaafootball/11usc.html

https://reignoftroy.com/2013/10/22/usc-football-ncaa-sanctions-crippled-trojans-literally/

http://dailytrojan.com/2013/09/26/haden-meets-with-ncaa-discusses-football-sanctions/

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/recruiting/football/news/story?id=5271822

[Cheeks]

No I really think it must be the NCAA sanctions that forced USC to fall out of the top 5. It had nothing to do with USC going from Pete Carroll to Lane Kiffin......LOL

And Pete Carroll didn't leave because the NCAA was on his doorstep....talk about NAIVE.  And nope, going from 85 scholarship players to less than 50...that didn't have anything to do with dropping out of the top 5 either.  I mean...wow.  Seriously...wow.  They're giving out degrees at MU these days apparently.

[Cheeks]

Cheeks is a joke.

[🏀]

Cheeks is a joke.

He's the guy that doesn't know that everyone else in the office hates him.

Top shelf penis.

[rocket surgeon]

He's the guy that doesn't know that everyone else in the office hates him.

Top shelf penis.

  but do ya have anything to add to the argument aside from name calling and trying(and major fail) to take advantage of someone's grief...speakin of top shelf

[🏀]

  but do ya have anything to add to the argument aside from name calling and trying(and major fail) to take advantage of someone's grief...speakin of top shelf

Do you post other than in support of Cheeks?

[Cheeks]

He's the guy that doesn't know that everyone else in the office hates him.

Top shelf penis.

Nope, pretty much have a great working relationship with most in the office and have for a long time.  Evaluation ratings by anonymous peers and directs confirm that on an annual basis. 

Really would like to politely ask you to change your offensive avatar.  It's 2019, almost 2020...really is time to stop mocking LGBTQ for someone's crude humor fixations.  Thank you.

[Cheeks]

Do you post other than in support of Cheeks?

He does, often posting on many things that have nothing to do with me.  I'd invite you to read many of his postings, probably 99% that have nothing to do with me.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

  but do ya have anything to add to the argument aside from name calling and trying(and major fail) to take advantage of someone's grief...speakin of top shelf

OK, Boo Boo.

[rocket surgeon]

Do you post other than in support of Cheeks?

i'm still waiting for your response to chicos premise, cuz this i gotta hear.  if ya have nothing, you become the top shelf whatever.  if ya have something, throw it out there, but ya don't have to resort to name calling.  do you make fun of the homeless too?  or even better,  the homeless who are grieving the loss of a loved one? that should be right in your wheelhouse

[🏀]

i'm still waiting for your response to chicos premise, cuz this i gotta hear.  if ya have nothing, you become the top shelf whatever.  if ya have something, throw it out there, but ya don't have to resort to name calling.  do you make fun of the homeless too?  or even better,  the homeless who are grieving the loss of a loved one? that should be right in your wheelhouse

It wasn't Chico's best work of fiction that year. The story didn't quite resonate with me, wasn't sure if it was the characters or storyline.

[Billy Hoyle]

Ellerbe doesn't get the job permanently without the run through the Big Ten Tournament.  I've followed Michigan basketball since the 80's.  Ellerbe was a caretaker after Fisher got canned because he had prior head coaching experience.  He also didn't have any sanctions placed on him or the program while he was coach.  The program was bad while he was there because he wasn't a good coach.

Michigan lost 1 scholarship during the sanctions.  1 scholarship didn't keep them out of the NCAA Tournament, Tommy Amaker simply didn't get it done. 

Michigan State missed the tournament in '93-'94 and were a 3-seed a year later in Jud Heathcote's final year.  They had plenty of talent.  They missed the next two years as they transitioned to under Izzo.  By the end of the decade, they were making Final 4's

I too followed UM basketball since the Gary Grant/Roy Tarpley/Antoine Jobert days. Glenn Rice was an absolute hero to me for that 1989 title run.  I jumped so high I hit my head on the ceiling at my friends' house when Sean Higgins had the put back against the Flyin' Illini team in 1989.

Yes, MSU did have "plenty of talent" in future NBA players Shawn Respert (25 ppg) and Eric Snow along with role players. Only Respert was from MI and MSU took a chance on him after he tore up his knee in HS. They got Snow because his brother had been an All-America LB at MSU. MSU was getting shut out for the top players in MI - even the second tier guys were going out of state instead of to MSU (Vashon Leonard, Harold Eisley, Monter Glasper, David Washington).  Morris Peterson was the last recruit in Izzo's first class, a "let's take a chance on this guy" recruit. It wasn't until the investigation started that MSU started getting the MI kids that usually went to UM. The only exception was Lavelle Blanchard, and he went to HS across the street from Chrisler and the Big House. 

Since the investigation dragged on so long (mainly because the NCAA doesn't have subpoena power) UM couldn't attract a top coach nor top recruits.  The looming investigation and eventual sanctions crippled UM basketball for years.  You try and use the "well Pitino went to Kentucky" example but that was 1988 and Pitino was looking to get out of the NBA.

[Pakuni]

And Pete Carroll didn't leave because the NCAA was on his doorstep....talk about NAIVE.  And nope, going from 85 scholarship players to less than 50...that didn't have anything to do with dropping out of the top 5 either.  I mean...wow.  Seriously...wow.  They're giving out degrees at MU these days apparently.

Carroll left because the Seahawks offered him a $33 million contract; because he's an NFL guy at heart; because the Seahawks allowed him to pick his GM; because almost every coach would rather deal with pros than college kids; because he never had to sit in another living room and kiss up to a 17-year-old boy and his grandmother; etc.
The NCAA being on his doorstep is way down the list of reasons Carroll left. Had there been no NCAA issues, Carroll still would have left for all the reasons above.

[Dr. Blackheart]

You do realize the NCAA, frustrated by the inability to get Shapiro to cooperate but wanting to nail them so bad is what led to the botched investigation, right?

Ask Michigan basketball about the impact of sanctions.

You kinda make my point (but you won't ever agree).  The NCAA is a cartel, I maintain. The definition of a cartel is "a combination of independent commercial or industrial enterprises designed to limit competition or fix prices." (Like conference realignment deals with ESPN, no payments for images, etc).

In the Miami case, the NCAA guidelines prevented NCAA compliance with dealing with Shapiro and his lawyers which caused the case to collapse, while Yahoo could get to the depth of the corruption. There are the understaffed and underfunded compliance people and then there are the NCAA members who don't want to be held accountable in many cases.

What you get are obstinate member institutions and their coaches who claim innocence on every turn when caught (Self, Miller, Wade), obfuscate, or fight appeals. If member schools really wanted full compliance, they would fully fund the policing effort (not rely on self-policing).  As a result, you get this grey or black market economy where cheaters (see Pomeroy Top 50) are taught it pays to cheat.

I know you and Cheeks will disagree, but there really are only two choices for many of us: Fully fund and make independent NCAA compliance (read external) or professionalize the sports. 

The in-between status quo is simply not working. Fans, lawmakers, legal institutions and the press believe this. The member schools, though, continue to actively employ, defend, and promote these cheaters with a blind eye that would not be tolerated in almost all businesses and organizations. Why? They are a cartel. They protect their own members.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/3/27/4154708/ncaa-botched-miami-investigation-mark-emmert-donna-shalala

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/renegade-miami-football-booster-spells-213700753--spt.html

[rocket surgeon]

It wasn't Chico's best work of fiction that year. The story didn't quite resonate with me, wasn't sure if it was the characters or storyline.

you have some bad ice water running thru those veins man.  if you're skeptical of the "story", best ya leave that one alone. 

[79Warrior]

No I really think it must be the NCAA sanctions that forced USC to fall out of the top 5. It had nothing to do with USC going from Pete Carroll to Lane Kiffin......LOL

Who can forget the great USC years of Ted Tollner, Larry Smith and Paul Hackett that preceded  Pete. You are so right, coaching hires contributed big time to the demise of SC.

[Cheeks]

You kinda make my point (but you won't ever agree).  The NCAA is a cartel, I maintain. The definition of a cartel is "a combination of independent commercial or industrial enterprises designed to limit competition or fix prices." (Like conference realignment deals with ESPN, no payments for images, etc).

In the Miami case, the NCAA guidelines prevented NCAA compliance with dealing with Shapiro and his lawyers which caused the case to collapse, while Yahoo could get to the depth of the corruption. There are the understaffed and underfunded compliance people and then there are the NCAA members who don't want to be held accountable in many cases.

What you get are obstinate member institutions and their coaches who claim innocence on every turn when caught (Self, Miller, Wade), obfuscate, or fight appeals. If member schools really wanted full compliance, they would fully fund the policing effort (not rely on self-policing).  As a result, you get this grey or black market economy where cheaters (see Pomeroy Top 50) are taught it pays to cheat.

I know you and Cheeks will disagree, but there really are only two choices for many of us: Fully fund and make independent NCAA compliance (read external) or professionalize the sports. 

The in-between status quo is simply not working. Fans, lawmakers, legal institutions and the press believe this. The member schools, though, continue to actively employ, defend, and promote these cheaters with a blind eye that would not be tolerated in almost all businesses and organizations. Why? They are a cartel. They protect their own members.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/3/27/4154708/ncaa-botched-miami-investigation-mark-emmert-donna-shalala

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/renegade-miami-football-booster-spells-213700753--spt.html

It actually works fine, you are focusing on the tiniest of slivers where it is problematic.  For the vast majority of student athletes is works very well.

[Cheeks]

Who can forget the great USC years of Ted Tollner, Larry Smith and Paul Hackett that preceded  Pete. You are so right, coaching hires contributed big time to the demise of SC.

Who can ignore the great years under Carroll and the NCAA penalties that went with them...oh...you and others.  Just simply ignoring them.

Also ignoring John Robinson, McKay and other coaches that did great at USC.

[Cheeks]

Carroll left because the Seahawks offered him a $33 million contract; because he's an NFL guy at heart; because the Seahawks allowed him to pick his GM; because almost every coach would rather deal with pros than college kids; because he never had to sit in another living room and kiss up to a 17-year-old boy and his grandmother; etc.
The NCAA being on his doorstep is way down the list of reasons Carroll left. Had there been no NCAA issues, Carroll still would have left for all the reasons above.

Sure.  That was part of it, but feel free to ignore some of the harshest ncaa penalties in history as a result of his regime...like they didn't happen.  Further pretend, like you and others have, that it had no or limited impact to the coaches that followed.  Also ignore that he knew when to get out.

I mean, if I made the argument you are making you would be all over me...absolutely all over me.

[Dr. Blackheart]

It actually works fine, you are focusing on the tiniest of slivers where it is problematic.  For the vast majority of student athletes is works very well.

And therein lies the issue. The concept of NCAA purity works great for 253 D1 schools and all of D2 and D3.  But the NCAA is a utter, complete and abject failure for the Pomeroy Top 50 schools (who are the most profitable ones btw...coincidence?). 

Cheeks and Billy, you are good people: Look in the mirror and ask yourselves honestly, though, how can you seriously work with organization(s) who allow Dollar Bill Self, Liar Will Wade, and Slime Ball Sean Miller to still be in a position of power?  Answer me that, Riddler?

If, after listening to those wiretaps played in open, public court, you can defend the lack of NCAA and university inaction, you are dead to the board on credibility.  On a good day, Miller and Wade should have been fired long ago and Self should be on leave.

[The Sultan]

Who can ignore the great years under Carroll and the NCAA penalties that went with them...oh...you and others.  Just simply ignoring them.

Also ignoring John Robinson, McKay and other coaches that did great at USC.

Well because their success was much less relevant because it was over a decade earlier.  From 1990 to present, a span of 30 seasons, USC has largely been good - but not great.  The only exception to that was the Pete Carroll era when they were undoubtedly great.  From 1990 to when Carroll took over, they went 79-61-4 with two bowl appearances.