USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball

[Cheeks]

Thanks Pak. Looks like the NCAA really showed USC!

You have to hand it to the NCAA. They’re very smart business people. While they could levy real penalties against cheaters, they don’t want to ruin the programs who make them the most money. Truly astute business acumen.

Good Lord...almost none of the football revenue doesn’t go to the NCAA. 

The NCAA revenue comes from the men’s basketball television contract and NCAA championship ticket revenue.  So I guess penalizing the USC football team really hurts the NcAA.....except it doesn’t because they don’t earn revenue off of USC football.   

[Uncle Rico]

Amaker took over a crap program that George Blaney had run down. He got them to the Sweet 16. He took over at Michigan as the sanctions were handed down.

And Michigan went 11 seasons without a tourney appearance thanks to the sanctions.

Ellerbe doesn’t get the job permanently without the run through the Big Ten Tournament.  I’ve followed Michigan basketball since the 80’s.  Ellerbe was a caretaker after Fisher got canned because he had prior head coaching experience.  He also didn’t have any sanctions placed on him or the program while he was coach.  The program was bad while he was there because he wasn’t a good coach.

Michigan lost 1 scholarship during the sanctions.  1 scholarship didn’t keep them out of the NCAA Tournament, Tommy Amaker simply didn’t get it done. 

Michigan State missed the tournament in ‘93-‘94 and were a 3-seed a year later in Jud Heathcote’s final year.  They had plenty of talent.  They missed the next two years as they transitioned to under Izzo.  By the end of the decade, they were making Final 4’s

[Cheeks]

Ellerbe doesn’t get the job permanently without the run through the Big Ten Tournament.  I’ve followed Michigan basketball since the 80’s.  Ellerbe was a caretaker after Fisher got canned because he had prior head coaching experience.  He also didn’t have any sanctions placed on him or the program while he was coach.  The program was bad while he was there because he wasn’t a good coach.

Michigan lost 1 scholarship during the sanctions.  1 scholarship didn’t keep them out of the NCAA Tournament, Tommy Amaker simply didn’t get it done. 

Michigan State missed the tournament in ‘93-‘94 and were a 3-seed a year later in Jud Heathcote’s final year.  They had plenty of talent.  They missed the next two years as they transitioned to under Izzo.  By the end of the decade, they were making Final 4’s

I would suggest reading where Matteen Cleaves was strongly considering attending until Michigan began investigating their program.  Cleaves was on UM’s campus on his official visit the night with Michigan players when Taylor lost control of his car after being at Ed Martin’s house....that’s what started the whole downfall.

Michigan’s investigation and following penalties drove some of the top recruits always from Michigan and to Michigan State.

[Uncle Rico]

I would suggest reading where Matteen Cleaves was strongly considering attending until Michigan began investigating their program.  Cleaves was on UM’s campus on his official visit the night with Michigan players when Taylor lost control of his car after being at Ed Martin’s house....that’s what started the whole downfall.

Michigan’s investigation and following penalties drove some of the top recruits always from Michigan and to Michigan State.

Wow, I never knew that Cleaves was in that car 🙄

It’s a shame for Michigan not having him as an alumni.

It took 6 years for sanctions to be levied.  Brian Ellerbe was a terrible coach and worse recruiter.  Sanctions had nothing to do with that.

[panda]

Good Lord...almost none of the football revenue doesn’t go to the NCAA. 

The NCAA revenue comes from the men’s basketball television contract and NCAA championship ticket revenue.  So I guess penalizing the USC football team really hurts the NcAA.....except it doesn’t because they don’t earn revenue off of USC football.   

Good lord ! You’re naive. And quite the shill for a sham organization.

“Sanctions” do nothing but punish the little guy (athletes) and protect the powerful entities (universities, ad’s, coaches etc.)

[Cheeks]

One year after the NCAA imposed sanctions, USC went 10-2 and finished ranked 6th in the country.
Three years after the NCAA imposed sanctions, USC went 10-4.
Six years after the NCAA imposed sanctions, USC went 10-3, won the Rose Bowl and finished ranked 3rd in the country.
Seven years after the NCAA imposed sanctions, USC went 11-3, played in the Cotton Bowl and finished ranked 12th.
Since sanctions, USC's athletic department annual revenue has gone from $76 million to $116 milliom.

Brutal.

Wow is this massively disingenuous.

Prior to the investigation and then sanctions, this was the annual finish of USC football in the computer rankings (remember, those were used by the BCS)

1st 2002
2nd 2003
1st 2004
2nd 2005
2nd 2006
4th 2007
2nd 2008
2nd 2009

THEN THE INVESTIGATION STARTED...Carroll lasted one more year.   What happened post investigation starting and then penalities?
20th
22nd
13th
33rd
21st

Yeah, that sure looks like the years prior to the investigation.  Yup, no impact.  Just a perfect correlation (I'll say causation because it was) when the investigation started, players stopped going to USC in the same level of talent and quantity, and then the penalties came through.  But you can pretend there was no impact if you wish.  The data, of course, doesn't lie.

USC's annual revenue increased because of the Pac 12 Network deal and other Pac 12 television deals that were split amongst all schools, nothing USC did on their own.  Guess what, Washington State who couldn't win if they tried....their income went up as well because of it.  Good try....massively disingenuous.  Massively.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I think the reason USC started to fall off after 2009 had mostly to do with Pete Caroll leaving for the Seahawks.

[Cheeks]

Wow, I never knew that Cleaves was in that car 🙄

It’s a shame for Michigan not having him as an alumni.

It took 6 years for sanctions to be levied.  Brian Ellerbe was a terrible coach and worse recruiter.  Sanctions had nothing to do with that.

He wasn't, nor did I say he was.  He was, however, at Ed Martin's house along with other Michigan players.  Taylor got in the car wreck, and when the school learned where he was (Uncle Ed's house) the investigation began.  That was the beginning of the end.  You seem to suggest that NCAA investigations going on don't  have an impact...they absolutely do, even before the sanctions are levied.  The black could over a program can hurt, as it did USC and Michigan. 

[panda]

Wow is this massively disingenuous.

Prior to the investigation and then sanctions, this was the annual finish of USC football in the computer rankings (remember, those were used by the BCS)

1st 2002
2nd 2003
1st 2004
2nd 2005
2nd 2006
4th 2007
2nd 2008
2nd 2009

THEN THE INVESTIGATION STARTED...Carroll lasted one more year.   What happened post investigation starting and then penalities?
20th
22nd
13th
33rd
21st

Yeah, that sure looks like the years prior to the investigation.  Yup, no impact.  Just a perfect correlation (I'll say causation because it was) when the investigation started, players stopped going to USC in the same level of talent and quantity, and then the penalties came through.  But you can pretend there was no impact if you wish.  The data, of course, doesn't lie.

USC's annual revenue increased because of the Pac 12 Network deal and other Pac 12 television deals that were split amongst all schools, nothing USC did on their own.  Guess what, Washington State who couldn't win if they tried....their income went up as well because of it.  Good try....massively disingenuous.  Massively.

Pretty much perennial top 25 even after debatably the best college coach of the decade leaves the program. The iron fist of the NCAA strikes again!!!!!

[Uncle Rico]

I think the reason USC started to fall off after 2009 had mostly to do with Pete Caroll leaving for the Seahawks.

That and the slow drain of assistants through the years.  Depth had begun to take a hit because of early entries as well.  Alabama has been pretty amazing for the decade avoiding a decline similar to it. 

[Uncle Rico]

He wasn't, nor did I say he was.  He was, however, at Ed Martin's house along with other Michigan players.  Taylor got in the car wreck, and when the school learned where he was (Uncle Ed's house) the investigation began.  That was the beginning of the end.  You seem to suggest that NCAA investigations going on don't  have an impact...they absolutely do, even before the sanctions are levied.  The black could over a program can hurt, as it did USC and Michigan.

What hurt the program was hiring Brian Ellerbe and not pursuing Rick Pitino over Tommy Amaker after realizing what a colossal disaster Ellerbe was.  After all, Pitino took over Kentucky after crippling sanctions and was in a Final Four in no time

[Cheeks]

Good lord ! You’re naive. And quite the shill for a sham organization.

“Sanctions” do nothing but punish the little guy (athletes) and protect the powerful entities (universities, ad’s, coaches etc.)

Yeah, NOTHING....they do  NOTHING to the powerful entities.  Yup...NOTHING.  And yea, those powerful coaches that get fired over this stuff....that's nothing, too.  How many examples do you want?  Look, you blew thinking the NCAA earns gobs of revenue from football, they don't.  I hear it all the time from people who have no idea what they are talking about.  Feel free to look up the NCAAs financial records and their sources of revenue.  Sorry, you were wrong on this one and the other items.  Sure, the athletes get punished and some are collateral damage, while some absolutely played the game and got caught.  But to think that no one else gets damaged is naive and absurd. 

USC has NOT yet recovered from the absolute juggernaut they were at the time.  Once again showing memories here are going quickly.  They were a top 4 team every year for nearly a decade until the investigations started and then the sanctions.  They paid a dear price, and they have yet to recover from it.

[Uncle Rico]

Yeah, NOTHING....they do  NOTHING to the powerful entities.  Yup...NOTHING.  And yea, those powerful coaches that get fired over this stuff....that's nothing, too.  How many examples do you want?  Look, you blew thinking the NCAA earns gobs of revenue from football, they don't.  I hear it all the time from people who have no idea what they are talking about.  Feel free to look up the NCAAs financial records and their sources of revenue.  Sorry, you were wrong on this one and the other items.  Sure, the athletes get punished and some are collateral damage, while some absolutely played the game and got caught.  But to think that no one else gets damaged is naive and absurd. 

USC has NOT yet recovered from the absolute juggernaut they were at the time.  Once again showing memories here are going quickly.  They were a top 4 team every year for nearly a decade until the investigations started and then the sanctions.  They paid a dear price, and they have yet to recover from it.

They would have had they hired Ed Orgeron instead of Steve Sarkisian

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

This desperation from Cheeks is hilarious. He really thinks the reason USC isn’t what they were before is because of sanctions?  And not a series of terrible coaching decisions by a couple of terrible athletic directors?

[Cheeks]

I think the reason USC started to fall off after 2009 had mostly to do with Pete Caroll leaving for the Seahawks.

Had a lot to do with it, and he left because the NCAA was crashing his corrupt program.  He got out of dodge.  The cheating was going to stop....it's weird, when the cheating stops and you cannot get the great players, nor have as many scholarships the program's fortunes change....which is exactly what happened to USC.

T.J. Houshmandzadeh said it best...Pete got out while the house was burning.

[panda]

Yeah, NOTHING....they do  NOTHING to the powerful entities.  Yup...NOTHING.  And yea, those powerful coaches that get fired over this stuff....that's nothing, too.  How many examples do you want?  Look, you blew thinking the NCAA earns gobs of revenue from football, they don't.  I hear it all the time from people who have no idea what they are talking about.  Feel free to look up the NCAAs financial records and their sources of revenue.  Sorry, you were wrong on this one and the other items.  Sure, the athletes get punished and some are collateral damage, while some absolutely played the game and got caught.  But to think that no one else gets damaged is naive and absurd. 

USC has NOT yet recovered from the absolute juggernaut they were at the time.  Once again showing memories here are going quickly.  They were a top 4 team every year for nearly a decade until the investigations started and then the sanctions.  They paid a dear price, and they have yet to recover from it.

Dude - Pete Carroll left. That’s the difference between USC as a top 5 team and USC as a top 25 team. Not the NCAA. C’mon man use your head.

[Cheeks]

Pretty much perennial top 25 even after debatably the best college coach of the decade leaves the program. The iron fist of the NCAA strikes again!!!!!

You again miss the point.  I said they never recovered from where they were, which is absolutely correct.  Some of you are trying to say that going 8-4 and still having a "winning record" is the same as going 11-1, 12-0 each year like they were doing prior to that.  Sorry, you are wrong.  Dropping down to barely a top 25 program after being literally one of the two best in the country for 8 years is not the same.

[Cheeks]

What hurt the program was hiring Brian Ellerbe and not pursuing Rick Pitino over Tommy Amaker after realizing what a colossal disaster Ellerbe was.  After all, Pitino took over Kentucky after crippling sanctions and was in a Final Four in no time

Hmm, totally ignoring that big time coaches didn't want to go to Michigan because....wait for it....wait for it....the NCAA was investigating them and about to slam them with penalties.  Why is this so hard for some of you?  Pitino took over Kentucky and "no time" was 4 years later....hell, Tom Crean did the same thing with MU and hearing some folks here he can't even chew gum and walk.  It's also a lot easier to turn around a basketball program than football, all you need is one or two studs and you are off and running. 

[Uncle Rico]

This desperation from Cheeks is hilarious. He really thinks the reason USC isn’t what they were before is because of sanctions?  And not a series of terrible coaching decisions by a couple of terrible athletic directors?

University of
Spoiled
Children

[Cheeks]

This desperation from Cheeks is hilarious. He really thinks the reason USC isn’t what they were before is because of sanctions?  And not a series of terrible coaching decisions by a couple of terrible athletic directors?

LOL.  No, I'll just ignore the facts and the expert opinions on how it went down, especially working with the Pac 12 on TV, Network and other areas the last 20 years here locally.  Yup, those sanctions and investigations had no impacts.  Coaches were lining up to take over a program that was banned, could only retain 44 scholarships instead of 85....lining up down the street.  LOL

[Cheeks]

Dude - Pete Carroll left. That’s the difference between USC as a top 5 team and USC as a top 25 team. Not the NCAA. C’mon man use your head.

Why did Pete Carroll leave....oh that's right, the NCAA was about to crush his program.  Which they did, despite the continued nonsense here that the penalities are never "harsh" enough. 

[Uncle Rico]

Hmm, totally ignoring that big time coaches didn't want to go to Michigan because....wait for it....wait for it....the NCAA was investigating them and about to slam them with penalties.  Why is this so hard for some of you?  Pitino took over Kentucky and "no time" was 4 years later....hell, Tom Crean did the same thing with MU and hearing some folks here he can't even chew gum and walk.  It's also a lot easier to turn around a basketball program than football, all you need is one or two studs and you are off and running.

Kentucky was looking at sanctions.  Louisville was looking at sanctions.  Michigan self-imposed 1-year ban when they were terrible and lost 1 scholarship.  The horror of overcoming that probably would keep any coach away.

James Franklin could have had any job and took Penn State, crippled by sanctions.  Nah, usc made disastrous hires.  That’s why they aren’t the 2000 USC teams.

I mean, FSU wasn’t the same as they were in the 2000’s as the 1990’s.  Texas hasn’t been the same since 2008.  Ohio State couldn’t replicate the 70’s in the 80’s.  Colorado hasn’t been the same since Bill McCartney left.  Florida is on their 3rd coach since Urban Meyer.  The common denominator is coaching, not sanctions

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

LOL.  No, I'll just ignore the facts and the expert opinions on how it went down, especially working with the Pac 12 on TV, Network and other areas the last 20 years here locally.  Yup, those sanctions and investigations had no impacts.  Coaches were lining up to take over a program that was banned, could only retain 44 scholarships instead of 85....lining up down the street.  LOL

Let’s be real. You’ve never shared one word about USC and NCAA sanctions with anyone at the PAC 12 network.

And you’re wrong anyway.

[wadesworld]

Why did Pete Carroll leave....oh that's right, the NCAA was about to crush his program.  Which they did, despite the continued nonsense here that the penalities are never "harsh" enough.

Maybe it was the $7M salary the Seahawks offered him to coach at the highest level of his profession in place of the $4.4M he was making at a place he’d already accomplished everything he could accomplish?

Anyways, SUPERBAR! But Cheeks wanted some attention so here it is, having nothing to do with Marquette basketball.

[Uncle Rico]

Let’s be real. You’ve never shared one word about USC and NCAA sanctions with anyone at the PAC 12 network.

And you’re wrong anyway.

He is.  USC lost ten scholarships.  They were down to 44 players because of transfers and dropouts.  That’s terrible roster management.  That’s on coaching