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Author Topic: Terrap-le  (Read 10019 times)

brewcity77

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #150 on: December 02, 2019, 08:12:54 AM »
A few thoughts...

1) I love Markus, but man, those complete egg-layings are tough to watch.

2) Howard and McEwen remind me of Howard and Rowsey in 2017-18. Both can get hot, but it doesn't seem to happen at the same time.

3) How has Ed been here three years and the travel issue hasn't been fixed? Seriously, him dragging his pivot in the post is so predictable.

4) Wojo came in with a rep for developing bigs, but that's been a failing so far. From Fischer to Heldt to John to Morrow, I just haven't seen strides from those players.

5) Bailey and Anim were bright spots. If they can replicate that, even to a lesser level, when Howard and McEwen are average, we'll be a good team.

6) Anyone who has ever watched soccer knows that what Jalen Smith did to Jayce was intentional. No question.

7) The refs let them play today and that hurt us. Maryland didn't have to go into their bench and we didn't get as many chances at the line. As ugly as the reffing was Thursday and Friday, those games are better for the kind of team we have.

8) The first half, like the second against Wisconsin, was disastrous, but there were plenty of positives. Jayce looks like the best big. Sacar & Bailey. The team didn't give up and almost made a game of it.

9) When you are trying to dig out of a 20+ point hole, even mini-runs are soul-crushing. We would get it to 12 or 13, then Maryland would score, get a stop, and score again and suddenly a 5-0 run turned possible into insurmountable.

10) I hoped for 11-1 non-con, but 10-2 isn't terrible. Though anyone hoping to see us ranked will probably have to wait until January 6 at the earliest.

TSmith34

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #151 on: December 02, 2019, 08:21:17 AM »
LOL. Before today, you were mildly pleasant with your new name and account....mildly...still waiting to unleash your same crap you always do. 
The irony meter just broke
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #152 on: December 02, 2019, 08:28:44 AM »
The lack of development offensively with the bigs is puzzling to me.  Ed is not what I expected him to be.  Theo after three years has ZERO touch around the basket.  And Jayce is a rebounding machine, but again has no touch.

Not that I expect us to be feeding the post offensively, but it would be nice to be a threat enough offensively to draw a double team.
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We R Final Four

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #153 on: December 02, 2019, 08:35:05 AM »


6) Anyone who has ever watched soccer knows that what Jalen Smith did to Jayce was intentional. No question.

The Great Dan Dickitch said otherwise “so.......don’t @ me Marquette fan”

MU82

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #154 on: December 02, 2019, 08:36:18 AM »
A few thoughts...

1) I love Markus, but man, those complete egg-layings are tough to watch.

2) Howard and McEwen remind me of Howard and Rowsey in 2017-18. Both can get hot, but it doesn't seem to happen at the same time.

3) How has Ed been here three years and the travel issue hasn't been fixed? Seriously, him dragging his pivot in the post is so predictable.

4) Wojo came in with a rep for developing bigs, but that's been a failing so far. From Fischer to Heldt to John to Morrow, I just haven't seen strides from those players.

5) Bailey and Anim were bright spots. If they can replicate that, even to a lesser level, when Howard and McEwen are average, we'll be a good team.

6) Anyone who has ever watched soccer knows that what Jalen Smith did to Jayce was intentional. No question.

7) The refs let them play today and that hurt us. Maryland didn't have to go into their bench and we didn't get as many chances at the line. As ugly as the reffing was Thursday and Friday, those games are better for the kind of team we have.

8) The first half, like the second against Wisconsin, was disastrous, but there were plenty of positives. Jayce looks like the best big. Sacar & Bailey. The team didn't give up and almost made a game of it.

9) When you are trying to dig out of a 20+ point hole, even mini-runs are soul-crushing. We would get it to 12 or 13, then Maryland would score, get a stop, and score again and suddenly a 5-0 run turned possible into insurmountable.

10) I hoped for 11-1 non-con, but 10-2 isn't terrible. Though anyone hoping to see us ranked will probably have to wait until January 6 at the earliest.

Good stuff, brewski. A couple of thoughts on your thoughts ...

1. Markus has had 3 bad games, though the Robert Morris one seemed semi-intentional on Wojo's part. We were blown out in the other 2. Given that we have only played 7 games, that''s disturbing. We can't beat a good team with him getting nowhere near 20 points. It is up to him and Wojo to figure out how to prevent such things. Maybe they can't. We'll see.

3./4. My biggest concern is that even when they have a dunk, they take so long to get to the rim that they get contested. We lost 6-8 points yesterday when the game was still a game. Agree about Ed's traveling. It's so predictable. The refs even let him get away with it some time. Having said all that, though, Theo absolutely has developed; he has had plenty of good games to show as much. Unfortunately, he's not consistently good, and that's what we need out of him. If yesterday's game was a sign that Jayce finally is healthy and that's the kind of effort we'll get from him regularly, Theo and Ed will see their playing time decrease.

6. I really didn't think it was intentional, but I don't play soccer.

10. Even 9-3 wouldn't be disastrous, but 10-2 will be solid IMHO, and right about what I thought we'd be. Saturday's game will be big -- a chance to get a good road win.
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TFlegend

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #155 on: December 02, 2019, 08:49:03 AM »
As a resident of MD, I needed this one more than the average November game.  The no-show from Markus was especially troubling, yet all too predictable.  My neighbors/friends don't get what the hype was about.  They'd much rather have Cowans than Markus.  I think I would, too. 

Cheeks

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #156 on: December 02, 2019, 08:51:36 AM »
A few thoughts...


4) Wojo came in with a rep for developing bigs, but that's been a failing so far. From Fischer to Heldt to John to Morrow, I just haven't seen strides from those players.


Now even the middle age guys memories are going.  No stride from Heldt or John as freshmen as they advanced? Really?  Morrow has been wildly inconsistent, but will disagree with the others.  Are they elite players...absolutely not....they were never going to be.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/max-heldt-1.html

John more than doubled his assists, rebounds, blocks from freshman to sophomore year...almost points.



« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 09:14:48 AM by Cheeks »
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tower912

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #157 on: December 02, 2019, 08:51:58 AM »
Ed hunches over and actually makes himself smaller while traveling.   
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Cheeks

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #158 on: December 02, 2019, 08:52:09 AM »
The irony meter just broke

Still still still waiting on your investing claim....
"The desire to be right all the time, push buttons, get the last word in, etc.  Just not good...   UGH. Embarrassing."

MU82

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #159 on: December 02, 2019, 08:54:42 AM »
As a resident of MD, I needed this one more than the average November game.  The no-show from Markus was especially troubling, yet all too predictable.  My neighbors/friends don't get what the hype was about.  They'd much rather have Cowans than Markus.  I think I would, too.

Were the 40 and 51 also "all too predictable"? Last season, were his consecutive games of 45, 21, 27, 26, 45, 26, 8, 26, 53, 26, 24, 23, 31, 36, 17, 38, 36 and 28 "all too predictable"?

Do you think fans of USC, Buffalo, Kansas State and the numerous BEast teams he has torched think he's overrated?

Is he the only player in basketball history who is supposed to be immune to a bad game?
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma – which is living with the results of other people's thinking."

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tower912

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #160 on: December 02, 2019, 09:08:03 AM »


Is he the only player in basketball history who is supposed to be immune to a bad game?

Well, yes.   Like all Marquette players, he is supposed to be immune to ever having a bad game.    Just like our bigs are supposed to arrive fully formed and not need to develop.    Like our players should never get tired.    Our freshmen should be 110% game ready when they arrive on campus and then get better.     Just like our coaches are never allowed to miss on a recruit, mis-time a TO, and should arrive with the combined knowledge of Wooden, Knight, K, Izzo.     Marquette should never lose, and when they do, it is the apocalypse.     Duh. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

lawdog77

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #161 on: December 02, 2019, 09:13:06 AM »
Were the 40 and 51 also "all too predictable"? Last season, were his consecutive games of 45, 21, 27, 26, 45, 26, 8, 26, 53, 26, 24, 23, 31, 36, 17, 38, 36 and 28 "all too predictable"?

Do you think fans of USC, Buffalo, Kansas State and the numerous BEast teams he has torched think he's overrated?

Is he the only player in basketball history who is supposed to be immune to a bad game?
Agree. It's as if people are waiting in the wings for Markus to have an off game. It happens to shooters all of the time. I would say except for the second half of Wisconsin, I do not think the "off Markus" is the same as it was years past. He did not shoot us out of this game.

skianth16

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #162 on: December 02, 2019, 09:25:55 AM »
Well, yes.   Like all Marquette players, he is supposed to be immune to ever having a bad game.    Just like our bigs are supposed to arrive fully formed and not need to develop.    Like our players should never get tired.    Our freshmen should be 110% game ready when they arrive on campus and then get better.     Just like our coaches are never allowed to miss on a recruit, mis-time a TO, and should arrive with the combined knowledge of Wooden, Knight, K, Izzo.     Marquette should never lose, and when they do, it is the apocalypse.     Duh.

Some criticism is over the top, and it's best to be ignored. Lately, the number of posts lamenting the over the top criticism is getting to be as prevalent as the "losing is unacceptable" posts.

Critiques about development of big men, Markus laying eggs with some regularity this year, and the current offensive rollercoaster are far from out of bounds and make for great discussion. Getting bent out of shape about someone being out of shape doesn't make for good threads. Not aimed at Tower specifically, this is just an example.

TSmith34

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #163 on: December 02, 2019, 09:26:57 AM »
Still still still waiting on your investing claim....
Oh Hoopaloop.  You got the investing thread shutdown, you got the MLB thread shut down not once but twice, you've gotten a dozen or more other threads shut down.  Now you are complaining about banned posters coming back under new names.   

Astonishing, but not really considering it's you.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 09:28:42 AM by TSmith34 »
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skianth16

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #164 on: December 02, 2019, 09:30:20 AM »
Were the 40 and 51 also "all too predictable"? Last season, were his consecutive games of 45, 21, 27, 26, 45, 26, 8, 26, 53, 26, 24, 23, 31, 36, 17, 38, 36 and 28 "all too predictable"?

Do you think fans of USC, Buffalo, Kansas State and the numerous BEast teams he has torched think he's overrated?

Is he the only player in basketball history who is supposed to be immune to a bad game?

I think all fans fall into this trap. We typically only see opponents once or twice a year, and that game becomes the only truth we know. So for Maryland fans who heard all the hype about Howard and then have only Sunday's game as their example of how he plays, yeah, he'll seem overrated. They're wrong, and that game is an outlier, but for a lot of them, that's going to be the only game they get to see him play.

If (and hopefully when) we shut down Powell against SHU this year, I'm sure we'll have more than just a few comments about how he's overrated and really not all that good. We'll be as wrong as the Maryland fans mentioned above, but it's part of the gloating over a win process.

MU82

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #165 on: December 02, 2019, 09:31:52 AM »
I think all fans fall into this trap. We typically only see opponents once or twice a year, and that game becomes the only truth we know. So for Maryland fans who heard all the hype about Howard and then have only Sunday's game as their example of how he plays, yeah, he'll seem overrated. They're wrong, and that game is an outlier, but for a lot of them, that's going to be the only game they get to see him play.

If (and hopefully when) we shut down Powell against SHU this year, I'm sure we'll have more than just a few comments about how he's overrated and really not all that good. We'll be as wrong as the Maryland fans mentioned above, but it's part of the gloating over a win process.

Yep yep.
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#UnleashJayce

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #166 on: December 02, 2019, 09:38:11 AM »
still waiting to #unleash your same crap you always do. 


Fixed

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #167 on: December 02, 2019, 09:58:29 AM »
While I am not leading the Howard for MU GOAT parade, the kid had a bad game and this is it. Anyone that takes a one game snapshot is not making an intelligent assessment. Kind of like I would like to see BB and Johnson repeat yesterdays performances several times before getting too excited.

WarriorFan

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #168 on: December 02, 2019, 10:01:04 AM »
Porky concurs with everything except Ed.  When Ed is on he's solid , and has proven he can score when needed.  Yes he had a bad game today but this strikes Porky as unfair.  Now that we have Jayce, if his performance today is a harbinger of what's to come, Porky would start him over Theo, but Porky has also long thought Ed should start over Theo, since he's much more of a scoring option and today aside, still very good defensively.
While Porky's views are respected, we both know that only time will tell.  Ed may redeem himself one day / one game.  At the moment he is a negative.  IMHO it's because he's trying to be something he's just not.  Every time he spins to face the basket I just cringe.  He has never beaten anyone in his life and suddenly (and unfortunately repeatedly) he thinks he can do an Alan Iverson on dudes far bigger and more athletic.  If he would just do what he did in a few games last year  (Bang, board, putback, foul) then I would once again respect his effort despite his lack of skill.  If this were not the NCAA and I was the coach, I'd fine him $10,000 for facing the basket, $1000 for each dribble, and $100k for each shot farther than 6" from the rim. 

TAMU Garcia

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #169 on: December 02, 2019, 10:09:00 AM »
On the development of bigs. I think Wojo has shown the ability to get them from A to B. Luke became a better rebounder and defender each year. Matt went from a benchwarmer to a solid backup C. Theo went from a guy who looks like Tarzan to a guy who defends like Tarzan.

But none of them took the next step,  becoming a 5 that was truly feared in the post on both sides of the post. Could be playstyle, could be they didn't have that high of ceilings, but it would be nice to compliment our guards with a dominate post player.

Ed has been the biggest head scratcher to me.  Looks significantly less than what he was at Indiana
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #170 on: December 02, 2019, 10:13:15 AM »
Now even the middle age guys memories are going.  No stride from Heldt or John as freshmen as they advanced? Really?  Morrow has been wildly inconsistent, but will disagree with the others.  Are they elite players...absolutely not....they were never going to be.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/max-heldt-1.html



You think people's memories are going. Maybe you should read your own links. As pointed out, Matt Heldt arrived on campus as a top 100 recruit (rsci #96)What do you think would be a fair ranking in that same class at the conclusion of his senior year? 400? 600? How's that for strides?

brewcity77

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #171 on: December 02, 2019, 10:16:30 AM »
1. Markus has had 3 bad games, though the Robert Morris one seemed semi-intentional on Wojo's part. We were blown out in the other 2. Given that we have only played 7 games, that''s disturbing. We can't beat a good team with him getting nowhere near 20 points. It is up to him and Wojo to figure out how to prevent such things. Maybe they can't. We'll see.

While that's true this year, I'm not really talking about this year. This goes all the way back to Howard fouling out in 7 minutes against #1 Villanova his freshman year. Or the home games against top-10 Xavier and Villanova as a sophomore where we were close and him playing even average would've put us over the top. Or the St. John's games last year.

A couple times a season, often in marquee games, Howard completely lays an egg and we end up losing. I get that it's hard for anyone to be on every night, and there's the "3 games in 4 days" argument, but that didn't seem to hurt Cowan yesterday. That hasn't been a problem for guys like Ponds and Powell against us.

Maybe I don't scrutinize those guys games against other marquee teams, but I feel like it's a given with Markus that 2-3 times per year, we're going to have a big game and he's going to be absent. I love the kid and when he's on there's no one like him, but when he's off it's painful, and it's not a new thing.

Now even the middle age guys memories are going.  No stride from Heldt or John as freshmen as they advanced? Really?  Morrow has been wildly inconsistent, but will disagree with the others.  Are they elite players...absolutely not....they were never going to be.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/max-heldt-1.html

John more than doubled his assists, rebounds, blocks from freshman to sophomore year...almost points.

Heldt was a fine backup and never became more than that, even when he started. Low usage, solid efficiency, adequate defender, but never became even a fifth scoring option.

Theo also nearly doubled his minutes. He still leans in too much when defending (compare to how straight up Jayce usually is even when he jumps) and hasn't developed any reliable post moves, midrange ability (even 6-10 feet), or the ability to consistently finish with authority. As FBM noted, he takes too long to gather and get up with the ball. He's done that for 3 years now.

Also...using old metrics is a losing argument. Theo's advanced numbers were fairly flat. Assist rate from 3.7 to 4.4%, Offensive/Defensive rebounding from 8.2/15.9 to 11.1/16.2%. His raw numbers went up but as far as his advanced numbers, there was no jump from freshman to sophomore year and could be attributed as much to Matt Heldt NOT improving over 4 years as Theo improving.

MU82

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #172 on: December 02, 2019, 10:23:30 AM »
You think people's memories are going. Maybe you should read your own links. As pointed out, Matt Heldt arrived on campus as a top 100 recruit (rsci #96)What do you think would be a fair ranking in that same class at the conclusion of his senior year? 400? 600? How's that for strides?

If Matt Heldt really was the 97th best player available that year, it must have been one really, really bad year for recruits. I appreciate how hard he worked, but he never should have averaged more than 10 mpg for a team with serious aspirations, and one could tell that was his ceiling early on.
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MU82

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #173 on: December 02, 2019, 10:28:28 AM »
While that's true this year, I'm not really talking about this year. This goes all the way back to Howard fouling out in 7 minutes against #1 Villanova his freshman year. Or the home games against top-10 Xavier and Villanova as a sophomore where we were close and him playing even average would've put us over the top. Or the St. John's games last year.

A couple times a season, often in marquee games, Howard completely lays an egg and we end up losing. I get that it's hard for anyone to be on every night, and there's the "3 games in 4 days" argument, but that didn't seem to hurt Cowan yesterday. That hasn't been a problem for guys like Ponds and Powell against us.

Maybe I don't scrutinize those guys games against other marquee teams, but I feel like it's a given with Markus that 2-3 times per year, we're going to have a big game and he's going to be absent. I love the kid and when he's on there's no one like him, but when he's off it's painful, and it's not a new thing.

Agreed that we can't afford Markus to completely lay an egg like he did yesterday, especially in "big" games, and he should be able to avoid that now by finding other ways to score/help us. I mean, even when he drove to get to the FTL yesterday, he couldn't hit. It was a bad game for him, and painful to watch for us.

However, he has had long, long stretches without any such bad games -- including numerous games that I think we all would call "big" -- Nova, Creighton, Buffalo, K-State, Davidson, USC, X, Butler, St. John's, Providence, and on and on.

I wish he never had bad games, and I hope he can avoid having complete disasters in the future, as we have discussed. But I'll take his body of work, even in "big" games.
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Pakuni

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Re: Terrap-le
« Reply #174 on: December 02, 2019, 10:39:00 AM »
You think people's memories are going. Maybe you should read your own links. As pointed out, Matt Heldt arrived on campus as a top 100 recruit (rsci #96)What do you think would be a fair ranking in that same class at the conclusion of his senior year? 400? 600? How's that for strides?

Is a player's development, or lack thereof. solely on the head coach?
If so, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on Junior Cadougan (RSCI 47), Erik Williams (RSCI 67) and Jamail Jones (RSCI 74).

Or maybe - and just hear me out for a moment - recruiting rankings aren't the best indicator of a player's potential. And maybe different teenagers have different development curves, and where a kid is at 17 isn't necessarily where he'll be at 21.

Just tossing it out there. Please resume making the exact same arguments you guys have been making for the past 12 months. Looks fun.