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Author Topic: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20  (Read 119942 times)

Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1600 on: September 16, 2020, 12:37:12 AM »
White Sox are 22-5 since that bad doubleheader.

I still am behind Mazara and Encarnacion leaving town.

Could you do a post on how bad my life sucks?

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1601 on: September 16, 2020, 11:06:57 AM »
After moving into 5th place all by himself on the all time MLB Doubles list last night, Albert Pujols ties Willie Mays for 5th place all time in MLB Home Runs with 660.

https://twitter.com/FabianArdaya/status/1305259238457917441?s=09

He is also top 5 in RBI's and Total Bases.

The only thing more depressing than watching a once great player stumbling his way towards “landmarks” is listening to a fanboy who’s obsessed by the sad spectacle.

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1602 on: September 16, 2020, 11:45:21 AM »
White Sox are 22-5 since that bad doubleheader.

I still am behind Mazara and Encarnacion leaving town.

You'll probably get your wish on the latter, as Andrew Vaughn is coming for his spot.
I'd guess a Mazara/Engel platoon is here for at least another year.

Anyhow, if Kopech becomes who we think he'll become, a starting rotation of Giolito, Keuchel, Cease, Dunning and Kopech is going to be mighty tough for the next few years.

shoothoops

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1603 on: September 16, 2020, 01:12:29 PM »
The only thing more depressing than watching a once great player stumbling his way towards “landmarks” is listening to a fanboy who’s obsessed by the sad spectacle.

Your psychological projection is showing. For someone not interested in the topic, your posting about it half a dozen times recently in this thread is an interesting way to show it.

Speaking of Albert Pujols:

In MLB news, Yadier Molina is 10 hits away from becoming the 8th catcher in MLB history to reach 2,000 hits. 👍
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 01:19:51 PM by shoothoops »

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1604 on: September 16, 2020, 01:21:10 PM »
Your psychological projection is showing. For someone not interested in the topic, your posting about it half a dozen times recently in this thread is an interesting way to show it.

Speaking of Albert Pujols:

In MLB news, Yadier Molina is 10 hits away from becoming the 8th catcher in MLB history to reach 2,000 hits. 👍

Molina is a baby that doesnt understand that if you put your mitt over home plate, it's going to get hit by a bat.

His temper tantrum last night was so precious.
And I am not frightened of dying. Any time will do, I don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying? There's no reason for it – you've got to go sometime.    — Gerry O'Driscoll

shoothoops

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1605 on: September 16, 2020, 01:30:52 PM »
Parochial, Povincial, Tribalist Identity Fragility at MU Scoop is alive and well with some.  Lol. Amazing. Sad, but, amazing. There's help for that. 👍

Perhaps the few of you can list all of your favorite teams, schools, geographies, food, etc...so everyone else can simply post from the tribal list to make things easier for you. 






« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 01:43:08 PM by shoothoops »

cheebs09

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1606 on: September 16, 2020, 01:45:30 PM »
Parochial, Povincial, Tribalist Identity Fragility at MU Scoop is alive and well with some.  Lol. Amazing. Sad, but, amazing. There's help for that. 👍

Perhaps the few of you can list all of your favorite teams, schools, geographies, food, etc...so everyone else can simply post from the tribal list to make things easier for you.

I kind of thought everyone outside of St. Louis thought Molina was a whiner. Maybe he just has his blow ups in Milwaukee as he seems to be good for one or two a season.

shoothoops

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1607 on: September 16, 2020, 02:31:18 PM »
I kind of thought everyone outside of St. Louis thought Molina was a whiner. Maybe he just has his blow ups in Milwaukee as he seems to be good for one or two a season.

I do appreciate you illustrating my point, right on time. Thank you.

No actually, when I lived in NYC or L.A. or wherever else USA or World, it strangely doesn’t come up. 

I’ve lived in some places, I’ve been a lot of places, there will always be good, bad, indifferent fans, and/or aspects to a team, a sport, a geography, etc...no geography is excluded in the world.

I don’t really know the rooting interests or geographies of most people who post here, which is amusing if I somehow post something that triggers someone. But I’m sure if I guessed the same frequently triggered people here, are probably Cubs or Brewers fans or something like that. WI/IL.....as 3/4 of Marquette is just that. And with that, it is often the same 20% of those people doing the 80% of being triggered. Most others seem to enjoy life.

Every market has these types of people. Although these are among the few locales that seem to do it more with St. Louis. It makes sense in baseball for example, they have won a lot since the 1800’s. Had they been bad a lot. it would probably be met with indifference. And, the Brewers ones seem to have only been around since the Brewers switched leagues. Funny how that works. I certainly get it.

If you actually read the content of my posts, most are matter of fact laid back, without any emotion, regardless of topic unless it is typed supportive of something Marquette related more than likely.

The other stuff just isn’t my thing. I don't even dislike Notre Dame or Madison, or the Cubs or Brewers, or WI or IL etc...I've had good times at all of those places. So you aren't likely to see too many negative posts from me about them.

I’m sure I’ll still post about schools, sports, geographies, athletes, etc...that may inadvertently somehow trigger some select few. That probably says more about those people. There’s a big World out there to enjoy.




« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 02:39:51 PM by shoothoops »

MUfan12

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1608 on: September 16, 2020, 02:39:04 PM »
So what does this have to do with Yadi acting like a little bitch?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 02:40:53 PM by MUfan12 »

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1609 on: September 16, 2020, 02:44:59 PM »
Say what you want about Yadi.  He is the best all around catcher since Ivan Rodriguez.  Who was a cheater.  Before him, I don't know, Gary Carter?  He has been among the best defensive catchers in baseball since his debut, and made himself a good offensive player in the process.
Their= possessive of they
They're= slightly shorter than "they are"
There= the opposite of here

shoothoops

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1610 on: September 16, 2020, 02:47:40 PM »
So what does this have to do with Yadi being a little bitch?

Thank you for illustrating the point. 👍✌️

"Exercising my right not to walk."

-Dead Poets Society

I think it does bother the select few (there's some in every group) that I don't get triggered by these things, but again, perhaps it's more frustration that they do.

Maybe come up with some "Bitches for Yadi" Tee Shirts and raise money for the humane society. 👍

Or maybe order a Wainwright/Molina 2020 Tee shirt for charity.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 02:50:14 PM by shoothoops »

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1611 on: September 16, 2020, 02:49:28 PM »
Say what you want about Yadi.  He is the best all around catcher since Ivan Rodriguez.  Who was a cheater.  Before him, I don't know, Gary Carter?  He has been among the best defensive catchers in baseball since his debut, and made himself a good offensive player in the process.

Joe Mauer, Buster Posey > Yadier Molina.

WI inferiority Complexes

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1612 on: September 16, 2020, 02:56:29 PM »
Joe Mauer, Buster Posey > Yadier Molina.
I really hate Molina, but I really disagree.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1613 on: September 16, 2020, 03:00:26 PM »
St Louis fan fragility.   So typical.
And I am not frightened of dying. Any time will do, I don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying? There's no reason for it – you've got to go sometime.    — Gerry O'Driscoll

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1614 on: September 16, 2020, 03:03:36 PM »
I really hate Molina, but I really disagree.

It's really not close.

Career WAR:
Mauer - 55.3
Posey - 41.8
Molina - 39.9

WAR7:
Mauer - 39.0 (5th all time for catchers)
Posey - 36.6 (9th all time)
Molina - 28.8 (24th all time)

WAA:
Mauer - 27.6
Posey - 25.6
Molina - 16.0

Top 10 MVP:

Mauer - 4 (1 win)
Posey - 3 (1 win)
Molina - 2 (0 wins)

shoothoops

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1615 on: September 16, 2020, 03:10:30 PM »
Joe Mauer, Buster Posey > Yadier Molina.

I am not all that interested in specific player comparisons. I am definitely someone that doesn't believe in "Goats" in sports etc because all players and teams can't play in all eras. Therefore, I root for whom I root and wish everyone else well.

With your post here, I believe a challenge for Mauer is he is barely in the top 150 of games caught as a catcher as he shifted positions midway through his career, and, he may keep falling down from that. Molina for example, is 6th, and he will easily be in the top 5 all time, so that really is apples to oranges. Joe Torre was also a very good player who was a catcher but shifted positions midway career. Good luck to Mauer and others.

I'll just enjoy success and entertainment. I was happy for Ted Simmons getting into the Hall of Fame recently as well as non-catcher Larry Walker.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 03:13:52 PM by shoothoops »

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1616 on: September 16, 2020, 03:25:40 PM »
With your post here, I believe a challenge for Mauer is he is barely in the top 150 of games caught as a catcher as he shifted positions midway through his career.

While I disagree with the premise that games caught is important in determining the better player, i'll just note that two-thirds of Mauer's MLB starts were as a catcher. The comp to Torre - who made less than half his MLB starts as a catcher - doesn't really hold up.
If the question is which player had healthier knees, Molina wins hands down. But Mauer was still a much better player. The objective data isn't close.

shoothoops

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1617 on: September 16, 2020, 03:28:00 PM »
It's really not close.

Career WAR:
Mauer - 55.3
Posey - 41.8
Molina - 39.9

WAR7:
Mauer - 39.0 (5th all time for catchers)
Posey - 36.6 (9th all time)
Molina - 28.8 (24th all time)

WAA:
Mauer - 27.6
Posey - 25.6
Molina - 16.0

Top 10 MVP:

Mauer - 4 (1 win)
Posey - 3 (1 win)
Molina - 2 (0 wins)

Actually, Molina has I believe a 54.3 WAR according to Fangraphs. They added pitch framing etc...I believe you are using dated numbers from elsewhere, perhaps baseball reference?

Anyway, it is just one example of some of the things that are or are not included/measured that go into being a catcher.


« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 03:34:00 PM by shoothoops »

shoothoops

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1618 on: September 16, 2020, 03:33:19 PM »
While I disagree with the premise that games caught is important in determining the better player, i'll just note that two-thirds of Mauer's MLB starts were as a catcher. The comp to Torre - who made less than half his MLB starts as a catcher - doesn't really hold up.
If the question is which player had healthier knees, Molina wins hands down. But Mauer was still a much better player. The objective data isn't close.

Games caught matters because it is much more difficult to hit playing catcher every day as opposed to a field position or DH.  It matters a lot actually.

Again, I wish other players well, but I will be happy for Yadi when he enters MLB HOF. It will be well earned, just as his recent Roberto Clemente Award was well earned.

Spotcheck Billy

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1619 on: September 16, 2020, 03:48:01 PM »
Games caught matters because it is much more difficult to hit playing catcher every day as opposed to a field position or DH.  It matters a lot actually.

Again, I wish other players well, but I will be happy for Yadi when he enters MLB HOF. It will be well earned, just as his recent Roberto Clemente Award was well earned.

Were you a catcher at the rec center at some point in time or something?

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1620 on: September 16, 2020, 03:50:42 PM »
It's really not close.

Career WAR:
Mauer - 55.3
Posey - 41.8
Molina - 39.9

WAR7:
Mauer - 39.0 (5th all time for catchers)
Posey - 36.6 (9th all time)
Molina - 28.8 (24th all time)

WAA:
Mauer - 27.6
Posey - 25.6
Molina - 16.0

Top 10 MVP:

Mauer - 4 (1 win)
Posey - 3 (1 win)
Molina - 2 (0 wins)

If you use fWAR, the numbers look different.  Yadi is at 54.3, Buster at 52.7 and Mauer at 52.5.  I think you also need to consider that Mauer played literally half his games at C, and the other half at 1B/DH (921 at C, 603 at 1B and 310 at DH).  Not exactly an even comparison.  Mauer didn't play really at all the last 5 years of his career.  Posey has also played more than a season's worth of games (229) at 1B, and another 30 at DH.  Yadi has a combined 49 games at those two positions.  I don't think there is any doubt that playing C is far tougher on your body than playing 1B or obviously DH. 

Both Mauer and Posey have had much better seasons than Yadi, again, there is no doubt there.  Posey had 28.8 bWAR in a 5 year stretch.  Pretty amazing.  Great no doubt.  I'm honestly ashamed I didn't include him in my post.  Mauer too, had 28.9 bWAR in a 5 year stretch.  Yadi never reached those lofty heights.  That is for sure.  His best bWAR stretch was 22.6.  But he really stands out on defense, and fWAR looks at defense differently than bWAR. 

I think there is debate between Posey and Yadi.  Mauer just played too much 1B for me.  Posey, at his peak was obviously the better player, really driven by being an elite offensive player, something Yadi could never claim. But even for Posey, Molina has caught about 1000 games more.  I think that is quite an achievement.  Though I know some like to discount longevity as a benefit in these cases.  To me, it says that even though he is 37 years old, he is still capable of manning the most demanding position on the diamond day in and day out.  And that means something. 


Edit:  haha.  Other people added much of what I was trying to say.  I guess I should read everything before replying.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 03:52:30 PM by buckchuckler »
Their= possessive of they
They're= slightly shorter than "they are"
There= the opposite of here

shoothoops

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1621 on: September 16, 2020, 03:57:00 PM »
Were you a catcher at the rec center at some point in time or something?

I'm not quite sure what this means, but I in baseball I was a shortstop and pitcher when I played.

But one doesn't need to play baseball, to enjoy it or discuss it. Anyone and everyone is welcome. Great sport, like so many others. 👍

Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1622 on: September 16, 2020, 05:04:16 PM »
If you use fWAR, the numbers look different.  Yadi is at 54.3, Buster at 52.7 and Mauer at 52.5.  I think you also need to consider that Mauer played literally half his games at C, and the other half at 1B/DH (921 at C, 603 at 1B and 310 at DH).  Not exactly an even comparison.  Mauer didn't play really at all the last 5 years of his career.  Posey has also played more than a season's worth of games (229) at 1B, and another 30 at DH.  Yadi has a combined 49 games at those two positions.  I don't think there is any doubt that playing C is far tougher on your body than playing 1B or obviously DH. 

Both Mauer and Posey have had much better seasons than Yadi, again, there is no doubt there.  Posey had 28.8 bWAR in a 5 year stretch.  Pretty amazing.  Great no doubt.  I'm honestly ashamed I didn't include him in my post.  Mauer too, had 28.9 bWAR in a 5 year stretch.  Yadi never reached those lofty heights.  That is for sure.  His best bWAR stretch was 22.6.  But he really stands out on defense, and fWAR looks at defense differently than bWAR. 

I think there is debate between Posey and Yadi.  Mauer just played too much 1B for me.  Posey, at his peak was obviously the better player, really driven by being an elite offensive player, something Yadi could never claim. But even for Posey, Molina has caught about 1000 games more.  I think that is quite an achievement.  Though I know some like to discount longevity as a benefit in these cases.  To me, it says that even though he is 37 years old, he is still capable of manning the most demanding position on the diamond day in and day out.  And that means something. 


Edit:  haha.  Other people added much of what I was trying to say.  I guess I should read everything before replying.


Excellent post, Buck.

Also, let me add that I really love Shorthoops outlook on sports.

shoothoops

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1623 on: September 16, 2020, 05:57:17 PM »

Excellent post, Buck.

Also, let me add that I really love Shorthoops outlook on sports.

Why thank you. Very kind. 👍✌️

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1624 on: September 16, 2020, 06:07:45 PM »
You all make fair points, but not enough to sway me (sorry, I'm sure you're broken up about that).

Especially the "games caught" argument. Again, two-thirds of Mauer's MLB starts came as a catcher. He wasn't a part-time player there. And all of his best seasons came when he playing cztcher nearly full time.
Longevity isn't meaningless, but it's a poor measure for greatness.

 

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