MLB Hot Stove 2019-20

[shoothoops]

Oh I agree.  I was commenting on your sentence "Like it or not, often times in sports, contracts and $ are often about what a player has already done (among other things) and not just about what they are going to do."

I was simply saying the best teams usually avoid this mistake.

We can take the Pujols example if you'd like. Albert signed a 7 year $100 Million deal with the Cardinals in 2004. It was a very team friendly contract. As he neared his next contract, two World Series Titles later, several playoffs and dominant regular seasons etc...he wasn't close to being one of the game's higher paid players during that time.

Danny Lozano was his agent. And unlike a Scott Boras, whom the Cardinals have had a good working relationship with for several players, they didn't as much with Lozano. Lozano was in Albert's ear to get a top of the league deal.

The Cardinals, well aware of Pujols' team friendly value over the years were prepared to give him decent/good money but not top of the game type money at that 2011/2012 time. Over the years there has often been a running joke called The Home Team Discount, meaning several players were willing to take a little less money over the years to play in STL because the teams won a lot and were often good. (In today's game, while you still see The Home Team Discount, fair market value decisions have vastly increased with Stl players as they would elsewhere)

The longer negotiations went, the more Lozano influenced, and there is often that one team or those few teams seeking to make a splash. At the time Miami and Anaheim were those teams.

It's a give and a take in some situations, instead if just letting someone walk.....Pujols an iconic franchise player the team wanted to keep for a variety of reasons....meeting in the middle seemed plausible and perhaps ideal but the Cardinals had their hard line number limit and Anaheim vastly surpassed that. The Cardinals were well aware of his Plantar Fascitis issues. They knew their offer was overpaying for a current/future contract, but, part of the offer was a reward for past accomplishments. I believe many fans are conditioned to think that all contracts are about future performance. They aren't. This of course is not Pujols specific nor baseball specific.

So, he is wrapping up an all timer career. He has a long term post career $ contract with Anaheim as well, but I'm sure he'll figure something out to be associated with the Cardinals, get his image on the outfield wall, number retired, statue etc...even though the Cardinals are pretty strict on who gets those. (There are about half a dozen MLB Hall of Famer players who played most of their career in Stl who have still not yet had those honors yet along with those that have)

So I don't believe it is a mistake to reward past under valued performance in contracts sometimes. It isn't always about having all of the best team friendly deals. It's more of a give and take, meet in the middle thing sometimes
Some fans get caught up in Value and the business side of it. Often times, they are fans of smaller and mid market teams. I really don't care if Billionaires have to cough up more money for mistakes. It's not as if they pass the savings down to fans and their game attending experience costs as well as tv viewing costs.

[CTWarrior]

Again, I posted some of his historic milestones as they are happening right now this week. It's a 20 year career.

I don't see Arte Moreno anywhere in your repeated posts. He's the owner. It's his spending. He writes the checks. His people make the contracts. Pujols is the player, the employee. Your posts seem oddly misplaced towards the player on a long term contract, and not the owner as well as management.

Fun fact: Mike Trout will be on the plus side of 40 when his contract ends with the Angels as well.

Like it or not, often times in sports, contracts and $ are often about what a player has already done (among other things) and not just about what they are going to do. If players such as Pujols (who was vastly underpaid vs the market throughout his career) can get fair market value, good for him. If Mike Trout can get $430 Million and have a contract into his 40's from one of the Billionaire owners, good for him. They are the talent.

Mantle was a great hitter until the day he retired (145 OPS+ his last season despite the .237 average.  Pujols hasn't done that well in any season with the Angels).  Mays only one season 1973 where he was subpar, and Aaron only his last two years in Milwaukee and even then, he was a league average hitter.  Pujols has been a well below average hitter for four years now.

Big difference is the long term contracts today, as you say.  I certainly don't begrudge Pujols one penny of the money.  The Cardinals were unpopular but shrewd in not re-signing him.  They got his best for relatively low money, with the Angels paying a fortune for his decline.

In addition to his milestones, he did dip below a .300 career average this past year.  Mantle always lamented that his last year or so cost him his career .300 average.  But people don't care about average now like they used to.

[Lennys Tap]

Hall of Famer Tom Seaver dead at 75. RIP

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Hall of Famer Tom Seaver dead at 75. RIP

Oh no.  I was at his pre-300th win luncheon in Chicago. 

The game was against the Yankees.  A young don mattingly snuck out as soon as lunch was over due to lack of interest!

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Tom Seaver passes away at age 75.

[Jockey]

He has had medical issues for the last few years.

Alzheimer's, I believe.

[shoothoops]

He has had medical issues for the last few years.

Alzheimer's, I believe.

MLB reported he died of complications of COVID-19. He announced last year that he had Lewy Body Dementia.

[tower912]

One of the all time greats.  Another childhood hero.

[CTWarrior]

Hall of Famer Tom Seaver dead at 75. RIP

Great, great pitcher.  I will always remember that dirty knee from his full extension on release. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

He announced last year that he had Lewy Body Dementia.

Robin Williams struggled with that if I remember correctly

[shoothoops]

Robin Williams struggled with that if I remember correctly

Yes he did.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Oh no.  I was at his pre-300th win luncheon in Chicago. 

The game was against the Yankees.  A young don mattingly snuck out as soon as lunch was over due to lack of interest!

I decided to go back and take a look at this, and it had to be a POST-300th win celebration luncheon for Yankees to be present (we were in Chicago).  It must have been when they came to town the next week.

It was such an odd event with a handful of young Sox and Yankees attending.  I distinctly remember a nun bringing up a celebratory cake and cutting it for Tom.  Then they declared the lunch over and everyone rushed forward for autographs. 

[Jockey]

Devin Williams has a  7.75 Strikeout/Hit ratio. No pitcher in MLB history - even in as few innings as Devin has pitched has ever even come anywhere close to that.


except,...

What makes it interesting is that there is a guy this year who has been so dominant that his ratio is "Infinity". Because he has faced 47 batters without giving up a single base hit.

[The Sultan]

Devin Williams has a  7.75 Strikeout/Hit ratio. No pitcher in MLB history - even in as few innings as Devin has pitched has ever even come anywhere close to that.


except,...

What makes it interesting is that there is a guy this year who has been so dominant that his ratio is "Infinity". Because he has faced 47 batters without giving up a single base hit.

Yet still managed to blow a save last weekend.

[buckchuckler]

Yet still managed to blow a save last weekend.

He blew a save?  What a bum. 

[The Sultan]

Blowing a save, when you start an inning, without giving up a hit is quite an accomplishment.

[buckchuckler]

Blowing a save, when you start an inning, without giving up a hit is quite an accomplishment.

Tell that to Andy Hawkins!

For those that don't know...everyone... Andy Hawkins thew 8 no hit innings on the road, and lost the game.  He doesn't even get credit for a no hitter as he only threw 8 innings, as there was no bottom of the 9th.  That sucks.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Brewers designate Justin Smoak. So he'll have gotten paid $39,682 per plate appearance. Nice work.

[HutchwasClutch]

Brewers designate Justin Smoak. So he'll have gotten paid $39,682 per plate appearance. Nice work.

Davis Stearns offseason is a big fat F. And I like Stearns very much.  I hope this was an aberration. 

[BM1090]

Davis Stearns offseason is a big fat F. And I like Stearns very much.  I hope this was an aberration.

Smoak was a failure. Way too early to judge Garcia, Narvaez, etc.

[MUBurrow]

The strategy of signing a bunch of replacement level players to form composite characters who were more than the sum of their parts didn't pan out in this weird season.  Over a full season, where depth is more important, etc., who knows. But it was a fine year to take a crack at it, and certainly better than making big salary commitments the season before covid and on the eve of labor strife.

I liked the Smoak signing at the time - he profiled well for Miller Park. But yeah that didn't work out. I'm pretty bearish on Narvaez because he's never made good contact and he isn't a good pitch framer.  But someone has to catch, so meh. I'm going to withhold judgment on Lindblom - I think there could be something there, and even if its as a multi inning reliever, the money is right.

[buckchuckler]

Smoak was a failure. Way too early to judge Garcia, Narvaez, etc.

As a Sox fan, I told myself it was too early to make a call on Garcia for a couple seasons.  He is tantalizing with the flashes he shows, but he just never really fails to disappoint.

[cheebs09]

As a Sox fan, I told myself it was too early to make a call on Garcia for a couple seasons.  He is tantalizing with the flashes he shows, but he just never really fails to disappoint.

Sounds a bit like Carlos Gomez before he put it together.

[BM1090]

Sounds a bit like Carlos Gomez before he put it together.

Two of Garcia's last 3 seasons have been good/excellent as well. It's not like he hasn't put it together for long stretches. He was a great player in 2017 and a good one in 2019.

[Jockey]

Two of Garcia's last 3 seasons have been good/excellent as well. It's not like he hasn't put it together for long stretches. He was a great player in 2017 and a good one in 2019.

Avi is just a guy.

9 years in the league. 8.0 WAR

Blah