MLB Hot Stove 2019-20

[buckchuckler]

Source?

Preller.  We made a deal that now he has to check in with me about every trade after the Tatis debacle. 

Apparently the gun was jumped a little on the whole Padres deal.  Seems like they are still a likely destination though.

[buckchuckler]

Ok I gave Preller the OK.  Now Clevinger is a Padre. 

[Jockey]

Indians must really hate Clevinger. Any post-season where you are throwing Bieber, Clevinger, and Carrasco is a series you have a very good chance of winning.


Long-term though, it could work out well. Just head scratching to give up a chance when it is right in front of you. The perils of being a small market team, I guess. Always looking to build for the future.

[Lennys Tap]

Indians must really hate Clevinger. Any post-season where you are throwing Bieber, Clevinger, and Carrasco is a series you have a very good chance of winning.


Long-term though, it could work out well. Just head scratching to give up a chance when it is right in front of you. The perils of being a small market team, I guess. Always looking to build for the future.

He became persona non grata with his shenanigans this year. And they still have Bieber, Carrasco, Civale, Plesac and that kid (currently pitching in relief) who strikes out guys at an astronomical rate. They've now traded Bauer, Kluber and Clevinger in the last two years and still have a good staff. Seems like the organization is pretty good at producing pitchers.

[JWags85]

Indians must really hate Clevinger. Any post-season where you are throwing Bieber, Clevinger, and Carrasco is a series you have a very good chance of winning.


Long-term though, it could work out well. Just head scratching to give up a chance when it is right in front of you. The perils of being a small market team, I guess. Always looking to build for the future.

The Indians are good, but they arent a top 3 team in the AL this year despite this hot streatch (Rays, White Sox, As imo), argument could be made they arent even top 5 (Twins, Yankees).  Clevinger is 29 on an EXTREMELY team friendly deal.  This was the first year he made 7 figures.  He's very good when hes on, but I don't know if he has top 2 ace stuff.  So they don't want to pay him the $15MM or whatnot he'll probably want, especially with his off the field BS this year.  So they get a really nice haul for him.  Its good business IMO

[shoothoops]

Albert Pujols passed George Brett yesterday for 6th all time in Doubles with 666. He is four away from top 5 all by himself. He is also two Home Runs away from top 5 all by himself.

[Jockey]

The Indians are good, but they arent a top 3 team in the AL this year despite this hot streatch (Rays, White Sox, As imo), argument could be made they arent even top 5 (Twins, Yankees).  Clevinger is 29 on an EXTREMELY team friendly deal.  This was the first year he made 7 figures.  He's very good when hes on, but I don't know if he has top 2 ace stuff.  So they don't want to pay him the $15MM or whatnot he'll probably want, especially with his off the field BS this year.  So they get a really nice haul for him.  Its good business IMO

You're not wrong. There are better teams. But the trio of Clevinger, Bieber, and Carracci/Plesac is good enough to get to the WS. Think what Scherzer/Streasburg did last year.

But I still might have pulled the trigger if I was Cleveland. Got a couple quality guys for the future.

[MUBurrow]

I think my favorite deals today had to be Miami picking up a new best player on an affordable deal but then promptly trading away their previous best player on an affordable deal.

[buckchuckler]

I think my favorite deals today had to be Miami picking up a new best player on an affordable deal but then promptly trading away their previous best player on an affordable deal.

Didn't think about it that way.  Hilarious.

[Dish]

If there wasn't that limestone in straight away center at Target Field,  that homer Luis Robert absolutely demolished may have gone 500'.

[buckchuckler]

If there wasn't that limestone in straight away center at Target Field,  that homer Luis Robert absolutely demolished may have gone 500'.

Crushed. 

[Lennys Tap]

Albert Pujols passed George Brett yesterday for 6th all time in Doubles with 666. He is four away from top 5 all by himself. He is also two Home Runs away from top 5 all by himself.

One of the greatest of all time, now (and for some time) not even a replacement level player. Good that he's on a terrible team going nowhere - his subpar play can't really hurt them. He's on the perfect team to limp after a few more milestones.

[shoothoops]

One of the greatest of all time, now (and for some time) not even a replacement level player. Good that he's on a terrible team going nowhere - his subpar play can't really hurt them. He's on the perfect team to limp after a few more milestones.

One of the game's best, he's had bad plantar fasciitis since his later Cardinals years. He has one more year on his contract next year. He is finishing out his career end milestones. He's also now 3rd all time in RBI's.

[Lennys Tap]

One of the game's best, he's had bad plantar fasciitis since his later Cardinals years. He has one more year on his contract next year. He is finishing out his career end milestones. He's also now 3rd all time in RBI's.

As I said, a once great player. But unless a major league team doesn't care about winning he doesn't belong on a roster. He's a sub replacement player who hurts his team.

[Dish]

Luis Robert is a legit MVP candidate, this season. What a clutch at bat.

[shoothoops]

As I said, a once great player. But unless a major league team doesn't care about winning he doesn't belong on a roster. He's a sub replacement player who hurts his team.

As was the case the final years of many all time greats, Mays, Aaron, Mantle etc...He isn't expected to be great now.  I posted about his milestones. He'll likely finish out his contract next season and retire.

[buckchuckler]

Luis Robert is a legit MVP candidate, this season. What a clutch at bat.

He is something else.  Just unreal.  But right now, I'd say he is 2nd at best (maybe 3rd), on the Sox in terms of MVP stuff.  The old man is just killing it, and had the biggest hit of the game.  This offense is ridiculous.  So fun.  A comeback win against the Twins seemed completely unthinkable for so long.

In case you want to see a man kill a baseball...

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/white-sox-vs-twins/2020/08/31/631247#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=videos,game=631247

[Pakuni]

As was the case the final years of many all time greats, Mays, Aaron, Mantle etc...He isn't expected to be great now.  I posted about his milestones. He'll likely finish out his contract next season and retire.

In the meantime, another year of prime Mike Trout lands in the crapper.

[buckchuckler]

In the meantime, another year of prime Mike Trout lands in the crapper.

The Angels have been absolutely brutal with pitching.  A complete wasteland.  Such a shame. 

[shoothoops]

In the meantime, another year of prime Mike Trout lands in the crapper.

That's more of a conversation for Arte Moreno, and perhaps, Mike Trout.

[Lennys Tap]

As was the case the final years of many all time greats, Mays, Aaron, Mantle etc...He isn't expected to be great now.  I posted about his milestones. He'll likely finish out his contract next season and retire.

Yes, Pujols isn't the first aging superstar to play out the string for a payday. But his record for futility plus cost is historic. His WAR for the past 4 years is as follows: 2017 = minus 1.9, 2018 = .8, 2019 =.5, 2020 = 0. So for negative .6 WAR the last 3+ years the Angels have paid 95 million. Next year another 30 million will go down the sinkhole and the chances of him contributing much are remote. The only good news? They saved 18 million or so because this year's season was cut short. Great guy, once great player, now a big albatross around the franchise's neck.

[shoothoops]

Yes, Pujols isn't the first aging superstar to play out the string for a payday. But his record for futility plus cost is historic. His WAR for the past 4 years is as follows: 2017 = minus 1.9, 2018 = .8, 2019 =.5, 2020 = 0. So for negative .6 WAR the last 3+ years the Angels have paid 95 million. Next year another 30 million will go down the sinkhole and the chances of him contributing much are remote. The only good news? They saved 18 million or so because this year's season was cut short. Great guy, once great player, now a big albatross around the franchise's neck.

Again, I posted some of his historic milestones as they are happening right now this week. It's a 20 year career.

I don't see Arte Moreno anywhere in your repeated posts. He's the owner. It's his spending. He writes the checks. His people make the contracts. Pujols is the player, the employee. Your posts seem oddly misplaced towards the player on a long term contract, and not the owner as well as management.

Fun fact: Mike Trout will be on the plus side of 40 when his contract ends with the Angels as well.

Like it or not, often times in sports, contracts and $ are often about what a player has already done (among other things) and not just about what they are going to do. If players such as Pujols (who was vastly underpaid vs the market throughout his career) can get fair market value, good for him. If Mike Trout can get $430 Million and have a contract into his 40's from one of the Billionaire owners, good for him. They are the talent.

[The Sultan]

Again, I posted some of his historic milestones as they are happening right now this week. It's a 20 year career.

I don't see Arte Moreno anywhere in your repeated posts. He's the owner. It's his spending. He writes the checks. His people make the contracts. Pujols is the player, the employee. Your posts seem oddly misplaced towards the player on a long term contract, and not the owner as well as management.

Fun fact: Mike Trout will be on the plus side of 40 when his contract ends with the Angels as well.

Like it or not, often times in sports, contracts and $ are often about what a player has already done (among other things) and not just about what they are going to do. If players such as Pujols (who was vastly underpaid vs the market throughout his career) can get fair market value, good for him. If Mike Trout can get $430 Million and have a contract into his 40's from one of the Billionaire owners, good for him. They are the talent.

It seems to me the best teams are the ones who avoid making those big contract mistakes. 

[shoothoops]

It seems to me the best teams are the ones who avoid making those big contract mistakes.

Multiple things here:

1) My post(s) were about an individual player's real time career milestones. They weren't about how does this affect the 2020 Angels roster. They were about the near the end of a 20 year career of an individual player. My post was not about constructing the Angels roster. We of course could have a separate thread on that over the years alone. Mentioning Pujols is about to be top 5 in Home Runs, Doubles, is top 3 RBI's, top 15 and climbing in hits etc..isn't about those other things. You and Lenny seem more concerned about that in your posts than Pujols' achievements. I am not.

2) Sure it's always better and helpful to avoid big contract mistakes. Some teams can and do simply spend even more money to amend that or those mistakes. Others can't or won't. That varies. Some also do it for short term gain/winning. Pujols' former team is well known for not making big contract mistakes too often. And despite what they like to appear to be, they aren't little sisters of the poor either. They have recently been among the most profitable team in baseball. Is that the goal or is winning the goal. Both is nice, but as a fan I'll take winning first. These sre Billionaires after all  His former team is roughly top 10 in spending. Good enough to compete most years, but no desire to outspend most of the time either. Yankeess fans and Dodgers fans etc...aren't all that concerned with "Value" etc as they are success and winning with or without value.

3) How many people do you know including yourself, have gone to their employers and said, you know what, I am overpaid, please pay me less?

Pujols' contract doesn't have anything to do with my post. The Angels have both the money and wherewithal to overcome that. And finally "Bad Contracts" are about ownership and management, not the player.

[The Sultan]

Pujols' contract doesn't have anything to do with my post. The Angels have both the money and wherewithal to overcome that. And finally "Bad Contracts" are about ownership and management, not the player.

Oh I agree.  I was commenting on your sentence "Like it or not, often times in sports, contracts and $ are often about what a player has already done (among other things) and not just about what they are going to do."

I was simply saying the best teams usually avoid this mistake.