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Author Topic: Investing Thread  (Read 287248 times)

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1175 on: April 08, 2021, 07:11:45 AM »
NFT risk

"The debate over whether NFTs will have a lasting impact on the art market is still ongoing, but headlines are still being made by the man who stoked NFT mania. Anyone trying to profit from NFTs is "taking a huge risk," Vignesh Sundaresan announced in an interview, adding that "it's even crazier than investing in crypto." Sundaresan, also known by the online moniker MetaKovan, shelled out $69M last month for JPEG ownership and a hyperlink of Beeple's Everydays: The First 5,000 Days.

Waning sentiment can be seen in recent auctions. Average prices for NFTs tracked by NonFungible.com slumped almost 70% from a peak in February through early April. B.20, a token created by MetaKovan to allow "shared ownership of an open art project," has also fallen to around $5 from $23 since he won the Christie's auction for Everydays on March 11.

Why did he do it? "It's not primarily an investment," Sundaresan declared, saying his motivation was to support the NFT artist and showcase the technology. "I had this opportunity to be part of this very important shift in how art has been perceived for centuries," he added in another recent interview. To note, Sundaresan paid 42,000 Ether (ETH-USD) for the piece of art, which was probably worth a whole lot less when he first started investing in crypto in 2013.

Long-term outlook: Sundaresan described the technology as an continuing innovation that will permit a "new patronage movement" for artists and other content creators, though the hype around the highest-priced NFTs will likely fade. "I don't think NFTs will hold the same kind of hype forever around high-value items," he added. "The market will get divided. There will be very few high-value items and an infinite number of very low-valued items."

Source: Yahoo Finance
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

StillAWarrior

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1176 on: April 08, 2021, 07:14:54 AM »
I'm taking an informal poll to see how much you know or understand about any of this stuff. No right answer, this is more curiosity as to how deep you are into the crypto world. And a non-crypto investing thread might be the perfect place to ask.

Has anyone ...

* staked coins in liquidity pools?
* done any yield farming?
* store coins in a wallet (i.e., metamask) or cold storage (ie., ledger)?
* bought an NFT?
* traded through an AMM (automatic market maker)?
* borrowed against a coin on collateral?
* Used a futures contract like perpetual or synthetic?
* bought an ICO?

* Know what DeFi is?
* Know What Uniswap is?
* Know the difference between the Binance Smart Chain and the Ethereum Network?
* know what gas fees are?
* Know what layer 2 scaling solutions are?
* Know what ETH 2.0 means?
* Know what ERC-20 tokens are?
* Know what web 3.0/IPFS/Filecoin are and why I lumped them all together?

Why do I ask?  Because I believe the answer to the questions above represents the biggest thing that is about to happen to finance/banking ... maybe ever.  A massive earthquake is coming and everything we know about investing, banking, insurance, money, central banking, trust, estates, etc is about to massively change in ways we cannot begin to understand.

I'd be happy to answer your questions, but you'll have to put the bullet points in English first.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

SERocks

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1177 on: April 08, 2021, 09:05:21 AM »

I'm taking an informal poll to see how much you know or understand about any of this stuff. No right answer, this is more curiosity as to how deep you are into the crypto world. And a non-crypto investing thread might be the perfect place to ask.

Has anyone ...

* store coins in a wallet (i.e., metamask) or cold storage (ie., ledger)?
  Yes, I have a ledger wallet.
* know what gas fees are?  Yes.

That's it. The rest is greek to me.

Why do I ask?  Because I believe the answer to the questions above represents the biggest thing that is about to happen to finance/banking ... maybe ever.  A massive earthquake is coming and everything we know about investing, banking, insurance, money, central banking, trust, estates, etc is about to massively change in ways we cannot begin to understand.


I would be very interested in your comments on the above paragraph.  I too believe a massive change is coming, but know so little about it that all I have done is bought some coins and put them away.  I think I am going to invest in Coinbase once it is public as well, but beyond that not even sure what to look for.....
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 10:55:49 AM by SERocks »

Hards Alumni

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1178 on: April 08, 2021, 09:07:14 AM »

MU82

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1179 on: April 08, 2021, 09:46:34 AM »
“Even though I’m sort of a pro-crypto, pro-Bitcoin maximalist person, I do wonder whether at this point Bitcoin should also be thought in part of as a Chinese financial weapon against the U.S,” said Peter Thiel, noted tech investor, on how cryptocurrency threatens the U.S. dollar.  “China wants to do things to weaken it, so China’s long Bitcoin."
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Hards Alumni

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1180 on: April 08, 2021, 10:28:14 AM »
“Even though I’m sort of a pro-crypto, pro-Bitcoin maximalist person, I do wonder whether at this point Bitcoin should also be thought in part of as a Chinese financial weapon against the U.S,” said Peter Thiel, noted tech investor, on how cryptocurrency threatens the U.S. dollar.  “China wants to do things to weaken it, so China’s long Bitcoin."

Peter Thiel, noted trash bag human being.

Strange quote though.  Even stranger to post it.

MU82

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1181 on: April 08, 2021, 10:29:49 AM »
Peter Thiel, noted trash bag human being.

Strange quote though.  Even stranger to post it.

Strange to post a quote from a famous investor about an investment that lots of folks are talking about? OK.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Hards Alumni

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1182 on: April 08, 2021, 10:33:18 AM »
Strange to post a quote from a famous investor about an investment that lots of folks are talking about? OK.

Why Peter Thiel though?  There are quotes from hundreds of dopes that didn't understand bitcoin a few years ago that are in the process of loading their bags.

What is special about his quote?  That China is long on BTC?  That's asinine, China is long on China and has been for generations. 

JWags85

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1183 on: April 08, 2021, 10:59:22 AM »
Why Peter Thiel though?  There are quotes from hundreds of dopes that didn't understand bitcoin a few years ago that are in the process of loading their bags.

What is special about his quote?  That China is long on BTC?  That's asinine, China is long on China and has been for generations.

I mean, you can hate Thiel for his politics or his personal stuff, but dude co-founded PayPal (which was originally founded in cryptography) and was the first outside investor in Facebook.  He's basically one of the most reputable people to talk about Bitcoin/developments secure online payment/new tech.  Implying that he's some Johnny Come Lately jumping on the BTC train like everyone else is kind of silly.

Also, while I totally agree China is long China before anything else, that doesn't mean he's point is any less valid if they view BTC as a way to weaken the dollar and, as a result, the US.  That seems like exactly the sort of 4D chess that China would play.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 11:01:06 AM by JWags85 »

Hards Alumni

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1184 on: April 08, 2021, 12:02:25 PM »
I mean, you can hate Thiel for his politics or his personal stuff, but dude co-founded PayPal (which was originally founded in cryptography) and was the first outside investor in Facebook.  He's basically one of the most reputable people to talk about Bitcoin/developments secure online payment/new tech.  Implying that he's some Johnny Come Lately jumping on the BTC train like everyone else is kind of silly.

Also, while I totally agree China is long China before anything else, that doesn't mean he's point is any less valid if they view BTC as a way to weaken the dollar and, as a result, the US.  That seems like exactly the sort of 4D chess that China would play.

I didn't say he was a JCL.  If he truly believe what he says, he'd be dumping his reserves into BTC.  But that isn't what his comments were about.  His ideology/politics specifically impacts his view of BTC.  He is anti China.  And that is what was guiding his comments.  Elon Musk says that holding BTC is better than holding cash, and he is more wealthy, helped found PayPal, and currently owns Tesla and SpaceX.  He is even accepting it as payment for Teslas.  Should we listen to him more? 

JWags85

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1185 on: April 08, 2021, 12:14:39 PM »
I didn't say he was a JCL.  If he truly believe what he says, he'd be dumping his reserves into BTC.  But that isn't what his comments were about.  His ideology/politics specifically impacts his view of BTC.  He is anti China.  And that is what was guiding his comments.  Elon Musk says that holding BTC is better than holding cash, and he is more wealthy, helped found PayPal, and currently owns Tesla and SpaceX.  He is even accepting it as payment for Teslas.  Should we listen to him more?

I think both have valid voices and understandings and opinions that are worth weighing. If someone has understanding and experience with crypto, I’ll listen.  It’s the dinosaurs and slow adapters who I avoid, aka Charlie Munger.

I didn’t take anything from his comments to be anti-BTC.  Concern about Chinese influence, sure.  But I don’t think that automatically makes him a crypto skeptic or any less pro-BTC at its core than Musk.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1186 on: April 08, 2021, 12:28:40 PM »
I think both have valid voices and understandings and opinions that are worth weighing. If someone has understanding and experience with crypto, I’ll listen.  It’s the dinosaurs and slow adapters who I avoid, aka Charlie Munger.

I didn’t take anything from his comments to be anti-BTC.  Concern about Chinese influence, sure.  But I don’t think that automatically makes him a crypto skeptic or any less pro-BTC at its core than Musk.

Fair enough.

I forgot who was looking for a straight forward explanation of what DeFi is... here is one of the better ones that I have found.  If swear words offend you, don't click it.

http://galgitron.net/Post/DeFi-Defined

MU82

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1187 on: April 08, 2021, 12:38:49 PM »
Why Peter Thiel though?  There are quotes from hundreds of dopes that didn't understand bitcoin a few years ago that are in the process of loading their bags.

What is special about his quote?  That China is long on BTC?  That's asinine, China is long on China and has been for generations.

I just so happened to see the quote. So I posted it.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Not A Serious Person

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1188 on: April 08, 2021, 01:07:16 PM »
Why do I ask?  Because I believe the answer to the questions above represents the biggest thing that is about to happen to finance/banking ... maybe ever.  A massive earthquake is coming and everything we know about investing, banking, insurance, money, central banking, trust, estates, etc is about to massively change in ways we cannot begin to understand.


I would be very interested in your comments on the above paragraph.  I too believe a massive change is coming, but know so little about it that all I have done is bought some coins and put them away.  I think I am going to invest in Coinbase once it is public as well, but beyond that not even sure what to look for.....

A lot of the financial system, especially the banking system extracting rents from the economy while providing little value.  This, I believe is why banking/wall street is so hated.  They are perceived as taking a lot and providing so little.  This is not completely wrong.

This new world promises to replace all of this with permissionless systems via the use of a immutable blockchain and smart contracts.  If this promised is realized, and it is by no means guaranteed, everyone gets equal access for the same fee structure, no matter their size.  It is not possible to offer "special" deals or services to anyone else.

So, a lot of basic banking functions will switch to this.  This includes payments, money transfer (money transfers includes trading and settlement), collateralized lending and borrowing, basic insurance, lotteries, etc.

So this big parts of current "centralized" banks, brokerage, insurance, lotteries, exchanges, etc. go away.  The current banks, brokers, insurance  still exist, but they lose most of their business and are left with the stuff that cannot be automated in a permissionless system (such as unsecured lending, research services, complex insurance underwriting, etc).  They become small boutiques.

Here are some good videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-O3r2YMWJ4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTMR18fk-nI

Lastly, one of the worst sectors to invest in has been the banks/financial sector.  The bank index is back at 1998 levels ... 23 years and no gains.  The overall financial sector is back to its 2007 peaks, 14 years and no gains.

The markets are telling us the current financial system has been broken for decades.  That is why they have lagged so badly.  Now its replacement might be coming into focus.





« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 01:10:06 PM by Heisenberg v2.0 »
Western Progressives have one worldview, the correct one.

Skatastrophy

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1189 on: April 08, 2021, 09:49:53 PM »
“Even though I’m sort of a pro-crypto, pro-Bitcoin maximalist person, I do wonder whether at this point Bitcoin should also be thought in part of as a Chinese financial weapon against the U.S,” said Peter Thiel, noted tech investor, on how cryptocurrency threatens the U.S. dollar.  “China wants to do things to weaken it, so China’s long Bitcoin."

Funny timing, and not to dogpile but a headline from Marketwatch today was "China’s bitcoin crackdown contradicts Peter Thiel’s belief that it is a ‘financial weapon’ against U.S."

That being said the de-dollarification desire from Russia and Europe is real. There are non-trustworthy actors pushing crypto. Blockchain is still an interesting technology, though I don't believe it will disrupt the finance sector's big players all that much though it will become a part of the backbone of the industry.

Not A Serious Person

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1190 on: April 08, 2021, 11:03:03 PM »
Funny timing, and not to dogpile but a headline from Marketwatch today was "China’s bitcoin crackdown contradicts Peter Thiel’s belief that it is a ‘financial weapon’ against U.S."

That being said the de-dollarification desire from Russia and Europe is real. There are non-trustworthy actors pushing crypto. Blockchain is still an interesting technology, though I don't believe it will disrupt the finance sector's big players all that much though it will become a part of the backbone of the industry.

Interesting comments ... how does it become the back of the industry but not disrupt the big players?  I think these two ideas are inconsistent.  The only way it becomes the backbone is by being a major disruption to the business model of Wall Street.
Western Progressives have one worldview, the correct one.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1191 on: April 09, 2021, 06:21:16 AM »
Interesting comments ... how does it become the back of the industry but not disrupt the big players?  I think these two ideas are inconsistent.  The only way it becomes the backbone is by being a major disruption to the business model of Wall Street.

Agree.  Once people realize the cost savings, and safety of a smart contract it will upend the world far more than the smart phone every did.

Skatastrophy

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1192 on: April 09, 2021, 11:02:53 AM »
Interesting comments ... how does it become the back of the industry but not disrupt the big players?  I think these two ideas are inconsistent.  The only way it becomes the backbone is by being a major disruption to the business model of Wall Street.

My bad, I was using jargon. Technology backbones and the colloquial "backbone of an industry" are two different things. Swapping out a tech backbone does not disrupt core business model necessarily. Like, do customers really care if you're moving money via ACH, Wire, etc beyond speed and fees? No.

Customer acquisition is still king. Breadth of offerings is still king. Underwriting is still king. Capitalization of FIs is still king. Financial institutions are sales and marketing machines and the underlying technology is secondary to their success and growth.

Even the investing thesis of VCs playing in the crypto space believe that the future of these companies are to become service providers for global FIs. We'll see, though.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1193 on: April 10, 2021, 11:12:17 AM »
xrp has gone from $1.29 to 1.35 in last 5 minutes  up today from 1.06 (over 31%)
don't...don't don't don't don't

SERocks

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1194 on: April 10, 2021, 12:09:38 PM »
And I finally have a profit in XRP after all these years.

Sucks buying at a high.


rocket surgeon

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1195 on: April 10, 2021, 12:25:12 PM »
And I finally have a profit in XRP after all these years.

Sucks buying at a high.

  i bought some dennison mines, URR and cameco back in 2011-my 10 year hold is finally paying off...Dnn up from 0.50-$1.20 and cameco tickling 17  i was looking at about $25k loss, now they're all back to ground zero.  nothing is a loss until you sell obviously

waiting for xrp to settle and see a little sell of to buy some more,  a lot of speculation going on with this one as it has become the 4th most traded crypto.  think when bitcoin first came out
don't...don't don't don't don't

rocket surgeon

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1196 on: April 10, 2021, 07:35:37 PM »
  bought more at $1.26 a couple of hours ago...xrp $1.44
don't...don't don't don't don't

Marquette Gyros

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1197 on: April 10, 2021, 11:00:24 PM »
A lot of the financial system, especially the banking system extracting rents from the economy while providing little value.  This, I believe is why banking/wall street is so hated.  They are perceived as taking a lot and providing so little.  This is not completely wrong.

This new world promises to replace all of this with permissionless systems via the use of a immutable blockchain and smart contracts.  If this promised is realized, and it is by no means guaranteed, everyone gets equal access for the same fee structure, no matter their size.  It is not possible to offer "special" deals or services to anyone else.

So, a lot of basic banking functions will switch to this.  This includes payments, money transfer (money transfers includes trading and settlement), collateralized lending and borrowing, basic insurance, lotteries, etc.

So this big parts of current "centralized" banks, brokerage, insurance, lotteries, exchanges, etc. go away.  The current banks, brokers, insurance  still exist, but they lose most of their business and are left with the stuff that cannot be automated in a permissionless system (such as unsecured lending, research services, complex insurance underwriting, etc).  They become small boutiques.

Here are some good videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-O3r2YMWJ4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTMR18fk-nI

Lastly, one of the worst sectors to invest in has been the banks/financial sector.  The bank index is back at 1998 levels ... 23 years and no gains.  The overall financial sector is back to its 2007 peaks, 14 years and no gains.

The markets are telling us the current financial system has been broken for decades.  That is why they have lagged so badly.  Now its replacement might be coming into focus.

Say that I agree with all of this.

I get what to short.

What should I buy (in addition to BTC and ETH)?

Goose

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1198 on: April 13, 2021, 04:53:58 AM »
rocket

XRP at $1.62 this morning. Glad i as too lazy to sell it again last week. May as well hang on and see what happens.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Investing Thread
« Reply #1199 on: April 14, 2021, 11:49:07 AM »
Coinbase goes live today.  $250, but valuation was closer to $355 last I checked.  I'm in for a bunch.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 02:05:58 PM by Hards_Alumni »