How concerning is this?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I have no problems at all with MU trimming a little fat.  It might also make those who remain work a little harder to make sure they're not candidates for the next round.  Also, for all of those which were non-tenured teaching positions, it enables those who remain to pick up more classes and make more money themselves thereby improving efficiency.

As for positioning, I was drawn to MU many years ago because they drew for me a straight line through University to getting a good job.  As I recently went through the selection process with my eldest son, I have to say that the ONLY universities that were on his list that did this were DePaul, Santa Clara and Houston.  The remainder were so focused on turning 4 years into 5 (you don't have to have a major in your first year, undecided is OK and all of that faff) that they were entirely unappealing.  MU was also on the border of this "revenue increasing" strategy - encouraging undecided kids to remain undecided so they waste a year and end up staying for 5.  As a parent who's paying for it, I found this to be bad business from ALL the universities that have it as part of their strategy. 

MU as a tuition dependent university needs more attendees, not less, so it needs to contain costs AND have attractive programs.  The biggest focus - and area for improvement - needs to be connections to industry and the path to a good job. 

I have worked in higher education for nearly three decades, at multiple public and private institutions, and I have never been part of a strategic conversation where we are trying to tell students to be at the school for more than four years.  (Unless their major calls for it.)  I really doubt that is happening at MU.

The reason why MU is telling students this is because it is actually harder to get out in four years if they have to switch majors than it is if they are undecided. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Is it now normal for kids to start taking major classes as freshmen? My recollection of freshman year was I took core and required classes (Phil, Math, Science, English 001, Spanish, Dr. Naylor’s Western Civ) and no major classes until sophomore year, and I made it out in 4 years easily.

I took major classes in my freshman year back in 1986.  Anyway yes schools want students exposed to their major early because it usually helps with retention.  And if they switch, those classes would usually fill some sort of requirement anyway.

[StillAWarrior]

...The remainder were so focused on turning 4 years into 5 (you don't have to have a major in your first year, undecided is OK and all of that faff) that they were entirely unappealing.  MU was also on the border of this "revenue increasing" strategy - encouraging undecided kids to remain undecided so they waste a year and end up staying for 5.  As a parent who's paying for it, I found this to be bad business from ALL the universities that have it as part of their strategy.

It wasn't available for my daughter due to her field of study, but Purdue is the only school that I've seen actively marketing "Degree in 3" approach.  For someone looking to study Liberal Arts, it's not a bad idea.  I suspect that some other schools do the same thing, but I haven't come across it.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It wasn't available for my daughter due to her field of study, but Purdue is the only school that I've seen actively marketing "Degree in 3" approach.  For someone looking to study Liberal Arts, it's not a bad idea.  I suspect that some other schools do the same thing, but I haven't come across it.

A lot of schools do stuff like this to keep costs down.

https://madisoncollege.edu/uw-madison-transfer

[warriorchick]

It is also the sign of more focused recruitment efforts.  Perhaps too focused.  But acceptance rate is largely meaningless as a measure of quality.

FTR , USNWR has dropped acceptance rate as a criterion and focused more on graduation rates.

[swoopem]

Bring back FFP!!!

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Yep.

Both daughters got a $16k/year scholarship offer from MU, but even with that, Marquette couldn’t compete with good state schools. D1 went to U of MN-Twin Cities (our in-state school), and D2 went to Mizzou for Journalism. Both got educations as good as or better than they would have gotten at MU, and saved tens of thousands of dollars.

At this point I would only suggest a kid go to a private school if they had a ginormous  scholarship, or if there was some truly unique or superior program at the private school.

Sounds exactly like my daughter ($16k/yr schloraship offer) except off to a rival Big East school due to an incredibly more generous scholarship offer.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Herman

I agree.  I’ve stated in the past that touchpoints matter to some kids and parents.  Kids don’t pick a school based on a college fair appearance or a brochure, but it doesn’t hurt either.  In fact, for some it may peak their interest to learn more.  A picture, especially to kids these days, is worth a lot.

Some of the mail that arrived today for my daughter.  Have to tell you, the 40 page DePaul booklet was the big winner.  Syracuse sent something earlier this week along with USC that also were extremely impressive.  I have to think $7 to $10 in cost which is expensive in the direct mail game.  Yeah yeah, I get it...only a pretty brochure....but I tell you it was so well done compared to the rest that it stood out.  For some people that may make a difference to take the next step, apply and who knows...attend if it works out.  I wish MU would be more visible in certain areas....comes down to money and return.  Hopefully they are A B testing the hell out of their approaches and continuing to see what works and doesn’t....traditional, digital, in person, etc.  Have to our hustle.

Both my daughters were deluged by Tulane!
My younger daughter wants to go there even though they don't have Nursing as a major.

[warriorchick]

Sounds exactly like my daughter ($16k/yr schloraship offer) except off to a rival Big East school due to an incredibly more generous scholarship offer.

Sadly, this will continue to happen as long as Marquette alums refuse to donate to scholarship endowments for reasons like "They changed our nickname to the Golden Eagles" or "I paid plenty of money to Marquette when I was a student".

Everyone has a right to choose what they do with their money.  However, it's pretty disingenuous to complain how Marquette hasn't kept up with other schools, but  do absolutely nothing to help solve the problem.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Sadly, this will continue to happen as long as Marquette alums refuse to donate to scholarship endowments for reasons like "They changed our nickname to the Golden Eagles" or "I paid plenty of money to Marquette when I was a student".

Everyone has a right to choose what they do with their money.  However, it's pretty disingenuous to complain how Marquette hasn't kept up with other schools, but  do absolutely nothing to help solve the problem.

It has much more to do with how Marquette structured their scholarship program for the Class of 2019.

[brewcity77]

The most concerning stat I see for Marquette is that it's acceptance rate is really high - like 85%. This is noticeably higher than peer institutions (De Paul, 70%, SLU 65%, Butler 73%, Xavier 69%, Gonzaga 67%) and WAY higher than "aspirational" peers (Villanova 29%, Notre Dame 19%, Georgetown 17%,  Boston College 31%, Duke 11%). Basically it means Marquette really struggles to fill its classes and is very sensitive to any downturn in student demand. I.e. it's not like there is a big pool of students that would come if only MU would lower standards and let them in. As 53% of Marquette's operating revenue comes from student fees a big fall in numbers has a decent hit on keeping the lights on.

Wouldn't it only mean that if the entirety of that 85% was also choosing to attend Marquette? If there's 2500 in a freshman class and we had an 85% acceptance rate, that doesn't mean there were only 2941 applicants. There could've been 6000 applicants and only half of the approved ones ultimately picked Marquette. There could've been thousands more. They could fill the same 2500 with 4000 or 20000 applications.

[warriorchick]

I have worked in higher education for nearly three decades, at multiple public and private institutions, and I have never been part of a strategic conversation where we are trying to tell students to be at the school for more than four years.  (Unless their major calls for it.)  I really doubt that is happening at MU.

The reason why MU is telling students this is because it is actually harder to get out in four years if they have to switch majors than it is if they are undecided.

It is not.  In fact, getting out in 4 years is a major marketing point for Marquette.  They let students know that unlike some public institutions where it is common to have stay an extra semester or two because you can't get into your required classes, you can graduate from Marquette in four years. Exception to this would be  switching majors relatively late or flunking a bunch of your classes.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It is not.  In fact, getting out in 4 years is a major marketing point for Marquette.  They let students know that unlike some public institutions where it is common to have stay an extra semester or two because you can't get into your required classes, you can graduate from Marquette in four years. Exception to this would be  switching majors relatively late or flunking a bunch of your classes.

And Marquette does offer some programs, such as the MS in Applied Economics which is normallying a two year program, where you can get both your BS and your MS in five years. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Sadly, this will continue to happen as long as Marquette alums refuse to donate to scholarship endowments for reasons like "They changed our nickname to the Golden Eagles" or "I paid plenty of money to Marquette when I was a student".

Everyone has a right to choose what they do with their money.  However, it's pretty disingenuous to complain how Marquette hasn't kept up with other schools, but  do absolutely nothing to help solve the problem.

I agree. However, are those excuses just excuses and Marquette's administration should share the blame on how they communicated with alumni? Two aforementioned administrations on top of the church scandal alienated a large swath of alums in that there was no trust or credibility.

My last alumni reunion I wrote a check so that we weren't the only class who didn't hit their giving goal...and it was a embarrassingly modest goal.  Many reunions were going on outside of MU...which is why they changed it up.

Frankly, this is why basketball is so critical as it is the one thing that unites us.  But, understand, those simple excuses run much deeper for many.

[Herman Cain]

It is not.  In fact, getting out in 4 years is a major marketing point for Marquette.  They let students know that unlike some public institutions where it is common to have stay an extra semester or two because you can't get into your required classes, you can graduate from Marquette in four years. Exception to this would be  switching majors relatively late or flunking a bunch of your classes.

Your point above reinforces one of my contentions, which is that MU has  a number of many strong educational and value deliverables, I just believe they are not being marketed well enough.

One of my prescriptions is reallocation of resources .  Invest in multiple Admissions Officers and put them on the road . Meet year after year with top public schools in targeted metro areas. Having MU name on the school visit list. Kids may or may not show up but the key is the meeting with guidance department. Need to have a much larger applicant pool. That is hard work  for sure but work worth doing and being committed to.

Educating the guidance department is the way to identify live prospects. Guidance department loves to be able to tell students and their parents how close they are to XYZ University Admissions and that Young Johnny and Susie is a perfect fit for XYZ.  Then go heavy on personalized communication to those pre qualified  prospects. Not junk mail stuff, actual solid individualized letters etc.Keeping the guidance department in the loop.  Everyone wants to feel unique and special, especially the parents.

Over the years, I have advised a number of families on school choices and have found that, if the base receptivity to an urban school is there, MU advantages end up making it a compelling choice. In our area, the schools I see most often as direct competition for MU are Boston University and Fordham. MU gets the win more often than not but it does require a good amount of time to make the case, but that is the same for any school not withing driving distance .  That is why visibility and having year after year commitment to recruiting process is so important.   

[jsglow]

It's very expensive to maintain a continuous presence Herman, especially through paid employees.  MU is working hard to get greater involvement through dedicated volunteers in these efforts.  Things have improved significantly since my kids were 'recruited' back almost 10 years ago. Back then it was poor at best. Better now but there's still work to do.

[Cheeks]

I have worked in higher education for nearly three decades, at multiple public and private institutions, and I have never been part of a strategic conversation where we are trying to tell students to be at the school for more than four years.  (Unless their major calls for it.)  I really doubt that is happening at MU.

The reason why MU is telling students this is because it is actually harder to get out in four years if they have to switch majors than it is if they are undecided.

Thank you for this response.  I also have never been pitched on the 5 year stuff with my kids.  Utah did tell my son that many kids take five years, but that is complicated by Mormon missions.

[Cheeks]

Sadly, this will continue to happen as long as Marquette alums refuse to donate to scholarship endowments for reasons like "They changed our nickname to the Golden Eagles" or "I paid plenty of money to Marquette when I was a student".

Everyone has a right to choose what they do with their money.  However, it's pretty disingenuous to complain how Marquette hasn't kept up with other schools, but  do absolutely nothing to help solve the problem.

Should change the name back to Warriors then!!   

[WhiteTrash]

Should change the name back to Warriors then!!   

+1,000,000,000

[1SE]

Wouldn't it only mean that if the entirety of that 85% was also choosing to attend Marquette? If there's 2500 in a freshman class and we had an 85% acceptance rate, that doesn't mean there were only 2941 applicants. There could've been 6000 applicants and only half of the approved ones ultimately picked Marquette. There could've been thousands more. They could fill the same 2500 with 4000 or 20000 applications.

I’m sure the data is out there for Marquette, but typically schools have a rough idea of matriculation rate. Knowing that you know how many offers you have to make in order to fill a targeted class size. The “wait list” is the buffer for year on year variation in matriculation rate.

So if Marquette knows they have a 10% matriculation rate, and they want a class of 2500, they have to make 25000 offers. If they have 50000 applicants that means an acceptance rate of 50%. If they have 32,000 it’s an acceptance rate of 85%. So, as a basic rule, higher acceptance rate means fewer applicants since most schools are targeting a class size.

And yes, it’s not perfect, but I’m sure there’s a pretty strong correlation between acceptance rate and school ranking

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I’m sure the data is out there for Marquette, but typically schools have a rough idea of matriculation rate. Knowing that you know how many offers you have to make in order to fill a targeted class size. The “wait list” is the buffer for year on year variation in matriculation rate.

So if Marquette knows they have a 10% matriculation rate, and they want a class of 2500, they have to make 25000 offers. If they have 50000 applicants that means an acceptance rate of 50%. If they have 32,000 it’s an acceptance rate of 85%. So, as a basic rule, higher acceptance rate means fewer applicants since most schools are targeting a class size.

And yes, it’s not perfect, but I’m sure there’s a pretty strong correlation between acceptance rate and school ranking

One of the issues hampering schools is that students are applying to more schools than ever.  So these rates are getting smaller and harder to predict.

[mu_hilltopper]

Should change the name back to Warriors then!!   

I will donate $2m of Wayne Sanders' money to get the Warrior name back.

[Galway Eagle]

MU moves up to 84 for this years us news rankings. First time we actually moved up under Lovell right?

[StillAWarrior]

MU moves up to 84 for this years us news rankings.

And my son’s school tied MU in its first year in the national ranking.

[WhiteTrash]

MU moves up to 84 for this years us news rankings. First time we actually moved up under Lovell right?

Any ranking that doesn't have UW-Madison #1 is obviously bogus.

I was told half the students had Harvard as their safety school (the other half had Princeton).