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Author Topic: Well that was a waste  (Read 206407 times)

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #775 on: September 30, 2019, 03:02:05 PM »
so, this cheeks guy is talking out of his cheeks?

I also said there are more down transfers than up transfers....but down transfers don’t hurt programs, up transfers do.

When a guy is sent down to the minors does the big club get hurt? 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #776 on: September 30, 2019, 03:07:02 PM »

If they are just fine and will remain fine, why are so many concerned?  I’m just curious why they have so much fear and I am also curious what you tell the team that loses three players in on season that were supposed to come back...are they just fine?  Are these coaches all liars and making this up?  Is Sports Illustrated making stuff up along with USA Today and others saying it is HURTING some programs?

Any time a good player transfers, regardless of circumstances, the program he leaves is hurt.
So what?

And if ensuring  that no program ever gets hurt is your priority here, why are you OK with player like Joey Hauser being allowed to transfer? Joey likely would have had three more productive years at Marquette. His departure hurts MU way more than Duane Wilson's grad transfer, yet you're fine with one and not the other.

lawdog77

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #777 on: September 30, 2019, 03:07:54 PM »
Seriously?  If they have to sit out a year, less will transfer.  That’s why.  Thus not leaving as many high and dry.  It also curtails poaching and tampering.  That is why. Maybe you are fine with that behavior, I am not. 

It is a disincentive, like a tax.  That’s exactly right.  It is there for a reason.  Why are we penalizing schools for investing in kids, developing them and they just leave on a whim? 

You love to keep making employee comparisons...you realize how many companies if you invest in education or training require a payback or non compete (sit out for a few years)? 

We reap what we sow, all the grad transfer situation has done is penalize mid majors, made high majors into vultures who tamper and poach...what a great outcome.
cheeks. Your last paragraph.  All the grad transfer situation...

muwarrior69

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #778 on: September 30, 2019, 03:57:36 PM »
Then again:

The bill prohibits the NCAA from barring a university from competition if its athletes are compensated for the use of their name, image or likeness beginning in 2023.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-30/college-athlete-endorsement-deals-ncaa-california-law

Here is Mark Cuban's take:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/mark-cuban-ncaa-players-profit-implode

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #779 on: September 30, 2019, 04:13:05 PM »

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #780 on: September 30, 2019, 04:16:31 PM »

If they are just fine and will remain fine, why are so many concerned?  I’m just curious why they have so much fear and I am also curious what you tell the team that loses three players in on season that were supposed to come back...are they just fine?  Are these coaches all liars and making this up?  Is Sports Illustrated making stuff up along with USA Today and others saying it is HURTING some programs?

No they aren't making things up. It is possible for something to hurt, but the person it hurt to also be fine. The grad transfer rule isn't forcing mid/low majors programs to shut down their basketball programs. And rescinding the grad transfer rule wouldn't lead to a bunch of mid-majors suddenly becoming major players or making final fours regularly. With or without the grad transfer rule, mid/low-majors would be exactly where they are right now, getting beat by high majors 95% of the time and getting beat 99% of the time in Elite Eight, Final Four, and National Championship games.
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #781 on: September 30, 2019, 04:51:20 PM »
Next state up:

https://twitter.com/mlahammer/status/1178775523159347200?s=21

Poor Barry Alvarez won’t be able to schedule anyone
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

muguru

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #782 on: September 30, 2019, 05:29:08 PM »
Next state up:

https://twitter.com/mlahammer/status/1178775523159347200?s=21

Poor Barry Alvarez won’t be able to schedule anyone

There's going to be a lot of ineligible players/teams for postseason.
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #783 on: September 30, 2019, 05:30:51 PM »
There's going to be a lot of ineligible players/teams for postseason.

There will be zero teams ever made ineligible over this issue
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

muguru

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #784 on: September 30, 2019, 07:54:35 PM »
There will be zero teams ever made ineligible over this issue

So you think...tell me who exactly is going to stop a private organization(NCAA), from enacting their own rules?? If the Kansas and Arizona governments both pass bills soon saying "under this bill, the NCAA can not punish the state University basketball programs from postseason for any rules violations they commit", would you say then that means the NCAA can't punish Kansas and Arizona for violations or rules they broke as members of the NCAA?? There is ZERO chance that would hold up in a court of law if the NCAA pursued it, neither would this..if the NCAA pursues it, there is NO way a state can pass a law that tells a private organization that they can't enforce the same rules for their state that they have for all other 49 states.
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

jesmu84

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #785 on: September 30, 2019, 07:59:06 PM »
So you think...tell me who exactly is going to stop a private organization(NCAA), from enacting their own rules?? If the Kansas and Arizona governments both pass bills soon saying "under this bill, the NCAA can not punish the state University basketball programs from postseason for any rules violations they commit", would you say then that means the NCAA can't punish Kansas and Arizona for violations or rules they broke as members of the NCAA?? There is ZERO chance that would hold up in a court of law if the NCAA pursued it, neither would this..if the NCAA pursues it, there is NO way a state can pass a law that tells a private organization that they can't enforce the same rules for their state that they have for all other 49 states.

I think what he's trying to say, and perhaps backed up by the NCAAs recent statements, is that the NCAA will cave/change before it becomes a state law vs NCAA issue.

muguru

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #786 on: September 30, 2019, 08:04:36 PM »
I think what he's trying to say, and perhaps backed up by the NCAAs recent statements, is that the NCAA will cave/change before it becomes a state law vs NCAA issue.

I really don't think they will...as you can see already, conferences are already coming out against it. One of the ways they can MAYBE come to some sort of compromise is IF then the student athlete signs a BINDING agreement that ties him to that University for his tenure. You sign a "rights" agreement with "Joe bob's furniture shop" that's fine but then you are tied to this University for 4 years. Period, no transferring etc.
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #787 on: September 30, 2019, 08:25:37 PM »
I really don't think they will...as you can see already, conferences are already coming out against it. One of the ways they can MAYBE come to some sort of compromise is IF then the student athlete signs a BINDING agreement that ties him to that University for his tenure. You sign a "rights" agreement with "Joe bob's furniture shop" that's fine but then you are tied to this University for 4 years. Period, no transferring etc.

Again, multiple states are pursuing similar legislation.  The NCAA can choose to fight all of these states and declare a bunch of their members ineligible or they can come up with a solution. 

In a nation where nothing is bipartisan, legislators are reaching across the aisle in support of these bills. 

“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #788 on: September 30, 2019, 08:37:18 PM »
Again, multiple states are pursuing similar legislation.  The NCAA can choose to fight all of these states and declare a bunch of their members ineligible or they can come up with a solution. 

In a nation where nothing is bipartisan, legislators are reaching across the aisle in support of these bills.

As most here have said, the FBI investigation was the tipping point. The cartel of the NCAA and its members, apparel manufacturers and media companies damaged itself fatally. The longer they fight, the worse their case because of those wiretaps.This all started with the stream of of money already being paid under the table to athletes...and the NCAA response.

Again, if Bill Self worked in any of our companies, he would have been fired in a New York Minute.

brewcity77

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #789 on: September 30, 2019, 09:08:15 PM »
JFC this is over. The only thing left is for the NCAA to come out with details that satisfy the states that have passed or are close to passing legislation.

This is NOT a question of if. It's when. Period.
This space reserved for a 2024 National Championship celebration banner.

muguru

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #790 on: September 30, 2019, 09:39:02 PM »
JFC this is over. The only thing left is for the NCAA to come out with details that satisfy the states that have passed or are close to passing legislation.

This is NOT a question of if. It's when. Period.

Oh I'm not questioning that "likeness" compensation will become a thing, I'm sure of that. What I'm wondering about is truly how much the NCAA will cave on this..If they have the support of the conferences, and in turn the individual Universities(which I'm fairly certain they will), then what?? The NCAA can't cave to the majority to please the few. They can dig their heels in on this. I mean what happens(and I can see a scenario where this occurs), if the Universities themselves decide to make the players ineligible?? Nothing stopping them from doing that. Or the Universities decide to only give them partial scholarships because they will be making money off their likenesses??

I just think there's many layers to this that have to be peeled back yet. If the NCAA doesn't/won't under any circumstances support this, and the Universities(the NCAA membership) don't support it(which I'm sure they won't), then what??
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #791 on: September 30, 2019, 09:45:59 PM »
I just think there's many layers to this that have to be peeled back yet. If the NCAA doesn't/won't under any circumstances support this, and the Universities(the NCAA membership) don't support it(which I'm sure they won't), then what??

Then the California universities follow the state law, because they have to.
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MU82

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #792 on: September 30, 2019, 09:51:02 PM »
Again, multiple states are pursuing similar legislation.  The NCAA can choose to fight all of these states and declare a bunch of their members ineligible or they can come up with a solution. 

In a nation where nothing is bipartisan, legislators are reaching across the aisle in support of these bills.

Yep.

The vast majority of Americans believe that college athletes should be able to profit off their own likenesses. It's 2-to-1 in favor.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #793 on: September 30, 2019, 09:51:40 PM »
JFC this is over. The only thing left is for the NCAA to come out with details that satisfy the states that have passed or are close to passing legislation.

This is NOT a question of if. It's when. Period.

Until the mess has to be cleaned up because this wonderful “solve” didn’t work...and it won’t. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

muguru

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #794 on: September 30, 2019, 10:06:31 PM »
Then the California universities follow the state law, because they have to.

But what does the law say?? It says athletes in the state of Cali can profit off their likenesses, and it says the NCAA can't deem them ineligible for competition(I'm still not sure they can legally dictate that, but whatever), but there is NOTHING that says the conferences themselves or the Universities themselves can't make the athletes ineligible. We already know the Pac -12 issued a statement against it, I'm sure that wasn't done without all the members approval, which means they don't support it either.

I mean there's a State law that says I HAVE to wear a seat belt, but no one can force me to do it, if I choose not to. I didn't read the bill, but what exactly is California going to do to the NCAA(or the Universities) if they choose NOT to follow their law?? Fine them??
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

MU82

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #795 on: September 30, 2019, 10:41:44 PM »
But what does the law say?? It says athletes in the state of Cali can profit off their likenesses, and it says the NCAA can't deem them ineligible for competition(I'm still not sure they can legally dictate that, but whatever), but there is NOTHING that says the conferences themselves or the Universities themselves can't make the athletes ineligible. We already know the Pac -12 issued a statement against it, I'm sure that wasn't done without all the members approval, which means they don't support it either.

I mean there's a State law that says I HAVE to wear a seat belt, but no one can force me to do it, if I choose not to. I didn't read the bill, but what exactly is California going to do to the NCAA(or the Universities) if they choose NOT to follow their law?? Fine them??

Be patient, grasshopper.

This is just the first volley. When 15, 20, 25 states - or more, because elected officials of both parties are in favor of this - the NCAA and its conferences will have to decide if it wants to make athletes in half the country (including most of the highly populated states) ineligible or if it wants to come up with a compromise that makes sense.

I mean, if say, California, Oregon, Washington and Colorado all pass laws similar to this - and they very well might - the Pac-12 is going to make athletes from 9 of its institutions ineligible? Pac-3, here we come?

Stay tuned, my friend. This has only just begun, and it's about time.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

WhiteTrash

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #796 on: September 30, 2019, 10:43:01 PM »
Again, multiple states are pursuing similar legislation.  The NCAA can choose to fight all of these states and declare a bunch of their members ineligible or they can come up with a solution. 
The NCAA does not have to fight any state.

The NCAA has the right to continue business as usual.

The states have the right to pass laws that make their student athletes ineligible under NCAA rules.

What happens if California passes a law prohibiting gender division of sports because it is not PC to restrict people because of their gender? Are you cool with MU's women's v-ball team playing a Stanford team of all men in the NCAA tournament?

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #797 on: September 30, 2019, 10:47:26 PM »
The NCAA does not have to fight any state.

The NCAA has the right to continue business as usual.

The states have the right to pass laws that make their student athletes ineligible under NCAA rules.

What happens if California passes a law prohibiting gender division of sports because it is not PC to restrict people because of their gender? Are you cool with MU's women's v-ball team playing a Stanford team of all men in the NCAA tournament?

Oh you just wait for that last question to be answered....we already know by answers here that it is super cool for women to lose NCAA and high school championship races, wrestling matches, etc....their rights be damned....their rights get trumped by other rights....so I have no doubt some here would be just fine with your hypothetical because they have already supported similar situations in actual events.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #798 on: September 30, 2019, 10:54:41 PM »
Oh you just wait for that last question to be answered....we already know by answers here that it is super cool for women to lose NCAA and high school championship races, wrestling matches, etc....their rights be damned....their rights get trumped by other rights....so I have no doubt some here would be just fine with your hypothetical because they have already supported similar situations in actual events.

Examples, please.
Also, I didn't know people had a right to win wrestling matches. Must have slept that day in Constitutional law.

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #799 on: September 30, 2019, 11:06:37 PM »
Dan Wetzel crushes the chicken littles.
(Ad hominems to follow?)


This is painfully ridiculous. Start with this, Pac-12 schools have billions in operating expenses and cash on hand to easily afford, if it so chooses, to field teams in dozens and dozens of sports. Stanford has its $24.7 billion endowment, after all. A dozen softball scholarships isn’t going to break them.
What the league is saying is that it doesn’t value those sports or those athletes. Essentially, Stanford, or USC or Arizona State, doesn’t want to pay for a softball team. Yes, they have the money to, but they are acknowledging that it doesn’t make much sense for a university to fund.
As such, they would stop (or lower) the funding unless they can continue to have football and men’s basketball players to pay for them based on those athletes not getting their own endorsement deals. It’s like a forced donation to the athletic department.
If those players get their money, the schools are saying, then they shut down the Olympic sports. But if the schools don’t care about those sports, why should the football and basketball stars care? Why is that their obligation?
Really, though, if the Pac-12, or anyone else, really cared about scholarship opportunities for Olympic sports (men or women), then they would have worked over the years to increase the NCAA limits on the amount of full rides that can be offered. The more scholarships the better, right?
College sports have been booming of late, with television money filling and refilling the coffers. Yet there has been very little movement on increasing the number of athletes (male or female) who receive scholarships.
Almost all teams run at a deficiency. It’s not uncommon for a women’s soccer team to have 30 players on the roster. Yet the NCAA allows just 14 scholarships, forcing the deals to be divided up. Same with baseball or track or swimming or so on.
Instead the administrators just spent all the new billions on themselves. In 2010-11 — just this decade — the University of Michigan employed 253 people (coaches and administrators) at an average salary of $73,382, according to school records. By 2018-19, it was up to 388 and $101,137. So almost no new scholarships for the players and their families, but 53.3 percent more employees are making 37.8 percent more money.
And college administrators want to claim they care about Olympic sports and female athletes?
When the arguments go that off-kilter and that far from reality, you know one side has nothing to stand on.
That was the IOC in the 1980s. That’s the NCAA today.
Whatever happens with SB 206 and name, image and likeness, the world will survive. Doomsayers be damned.



https://sports.yahoo.com/why-ncaa-should-embrace-free-market-for-college-athletes-in-wake-of-california-state-bill-206-000714957.html

 

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