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Author Topic: Well that was a waste  (Read 206365 times)

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #675 on: September 29, 2019, 11:32:57 AM »
Never fully bought into that stat.  There are a number of countries with terrible crime that should have more prisons, but because they don’t it skews the numbers by saying we have this chunk of the world population and prisoner population.  You should see the stats here in California the last few years since folks were let out early....crime way up as common sense folks knew would happen.
Politics.  As usual.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #676 on: September 29, 2019, 11:36:48 AM »
Politics.  As usual.

I responded to someone that brought it up first, of course as usual you pick and choose whom to attack especially when it doesn’t align with you worldly view.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #677 on: September 29, 2019, 11:39:12 AM »
Also, the Premier League, NHL, and Major League players get compensated more than their counterparts. Too bad that doesn’t happen in the NCAA example.

Ok, NCAA more people care about D1 then D2 or D3, or NAIA for that matter.  None of them are compensated...nor should they be.  Attendance bears out who cares more. 

Thrilled it doesn’t happen in the NCAA because it would ruin untold opportunities for non revenue sports and these kids are already getting a great deal.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

rocket surgeon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #678 on: September 29, 2019, 11:43:36 AM »
Politics.  As usual.

  you guys see politics where none exists.  you are using your insinuation to either start a political argument and/or shut the thread down because you have nothing as usual.  chicos point is an unfortunate fact; recidivism puts innocent people including police back into harms way
don't...don't don't don't don't

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #679 on: September 29, 2019, 01:09:54 PM »
From Sports Illustrated, August 31, 1987:

When the NFL announced last week that it would include Ohio state All-America wide receiver Cris Carter and Pitt running back Charles Gladman in a supplemental draft on Aug. 28, doomsday pronouncements were heard across the land.  Carter had been kicked off his team for taking money from an agent.  Goldman had been thrown off because he didn’t cooperate with an investigation into illegal agent payments.  In effect, the NFL was rewarding the two players for their alleged transgressions by letting them skip a year of college.  Some alarmed college coaches and officials darkly predicted that intercollegiate football would be harmed beyond repair.

Michigan coach Bo Schembechler was furious.  “I have never heard of Pete Rozelle doing anything for the benefit of college football,” he said.  “The message says to a college player, ‘Go ahead and rob, steal, cheat and kill.  Then as soon as you are declared ineligible, don’t worry, because then you get into the NFL.’ “ Pitt coach Mike Gottfried said, “This is the start of droves of guys leaving college for the pros.”



As we know, coaches and college administrators were proven correct and college football never recovered from the advent of early entry into the NFL draft
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TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #680 on: September 29, 2019, 01:13:04 PM »
I responded to someone that brought it up first, of course as usual you pick and choose whom to attack especially when it doesn’t align with you worldly view.
Bring up politics.  Then cry about being a victim.  Every. fricken. time.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #681 on: September 29, 2019, 01:13:49 PM »
  you guys see politics where none exists.  you are using your insinuation to either start a political argument and/or shut the thread down because you have nothing as usual.  chicos point is an unfortunate fact; recidivism puts innocent people including police back into harms way
I value your input, Boo Boo.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #682 on: September 29, 2019, 04:00:10 PM »
From Sports Illustrated, August 31, 1987:

When the NFL announced last week that it would include Ohio state All-America wide receiver Cris Carter and Pitt running back Charles Gladman in a supplemental draft on Aug. 28, doomsday pronouncements were heard across the land.  Carter had been kicked off his team for taking money from an agent.  Goldman had been thrown off because he didn’t cooperate with an investigation into illegal agent payments.  In effect, the NFL was rewarding the two players for their alleged transgressions by letting them skip a year of college.  Some alarmed college coaches and officials darkly predicted that intercollegiate football would be harmed beyond repair.

Michigan coach Bo Schembechler was furious.  “I have never heard of Pete Rozelle doing anything for the benefit of college football,” he said.  “The message says to a college player, ‘Go ahead and rob, steal, cheat and kill.  Then as soon as you are declared ineligible, don’t worry, because then you get into the NFL.’ “ Pitt coach Mike Gottfried said, “This is the start of droves of guys leaving college for the pros.”



As we know, coaches and college administrators were proven correct and college football never recovered from the advent of early entry into the NFL draft

That’s nice.  I can give you days worth of predictions from people who said changes were going to beneficial and turned out the opposite (of course the same 8 dudes will scream politics on each one).  But to use a sports example, the one year mandate to go to college for basketball was supposed to be a great rule and has been anything but.  The grad transfer rule when you were required to go to a school that had a degree program your undergrad program didn’t worked...then they cha he’s the rule and programs are getting hurt left and right.  The same SI has a good article about how that change has hurt mid majors.

All comes down to whose ox is being gored.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

MU82

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #683 on: September 29, 2019, 04:39:13 PM »
From Sports Illustrated, August 31, 1987:

When the NFL announced last week that it would include Ohio state All-America wide receiver Cris Carter and Pitt running back Charles Gladman in a supplemental draft on Aug. 28, doomsday pronouncements were heard across the land.  Carter had been kicked off his team for taking money from an agent.  Goldman had been thrown off because he didn’t cooperate with an investigation into illegal agent payments.  In effect, the NFL was rewarding the two players for their alleged transgressions by letting them skip a year of college.  Some alarmed college coaches and officials darkly predicted that intercollegiate football would be harmed beyond repair.

Michigan coach Bo Schembechler was furious.  “I have never heard of Pete Rozelle doing anything for the benefit of college football,” he said.  “The message says to a college player, ‘Go ahead and rob, steal, cheat and kill.  Then as soon as you are declared ineligible, don’t worry, because then you get into the NFL.’ “ Pitt coach Mike Gottfried said, “This is the start of droves of guys leaving college for the pros.”



As we know, coaches and college administrators were proven correct and college football never recovered from the advent of early entry into the NFL draft

Yep.

Ok, NCAA more people care about D1 then D2 or D3, or NAIA for that matter.  None of them are compensated...nor should they be.  Attendance bears out who cares more. 

Thrilled it doesn’t happen in the NCAA because it would ruin untold opportunities for non revenue sports and these kids are already getting a great deal.

Opinion, with absolutely no basis in fact.

Every change, big or small, that was viewed as potentially catastrophic to somebody -- free agency in pro sports, blacks being allowed to play pro and/or college sports, women getting athletic scholarships, a real college football playoff, the 3-point line, the shot clock, etc etc etc -- has proven to be nothing more than silly alarmism.

Hell, most recently, the NCAA fought stipends tooth and nail. Dead-set against them. Said scholarships should be more than enough. Predicted they'd alter the face of college athletics. Maybe some folks have heard cases of stipends causing some kind of horrific, landmark change to college sports, but I sure haven't.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #684 on: September 29, 2019, 04:45:42 PM »
Yep.

Opinion, with absolutely no basis in fact.

Every change, big or small, that was viewed as potentially catastrophic to somebody -- free agency in pro sports, blacks being allowed to play pro and/or college sports, women getting athletic scholarships, a real college football playoff, the 3-point line, the shot clock, etc etc etc -- has proven to be nothing more than silly alarmism.

Hell, most recently, the NCAA fought stipends tooth and nail. Dead-set against them. Said scholarships should be more than enough. Predicted they'd alter the face of college athletics. Maybe some folks have heard cases of stipends causing some kind of horrific, landmark change to college sports, but I sure haven't.

Maybe one of the times coaches and administrators say college sports and sham amateurism are doomed, it’ll really happen
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #685 on: September 29, 2019, 05:19:33 PM »
Yep.

Opinion, with absolutely no basis in fact.

Every change, big or small, that was viewed as potentially catastrophic to somebody -- free agency in pro sports, blacks being allowed to play pro and/or college sports, women getting athletic scholarships, a real college football playoff, the 3-point line, the shot clock, etc etc etc -- has proven to be nothing more than silly alarmism.

Hell, most recently, the NCAA fought stipends tooth and nail. Dead-set against them. Said scholarships should be more than enough. Predicted they'd alter the face of college athletics. Maybe some folks have heard cases of stipends causing some kind of horrific, landmark change to college sports, but I sure haven't.

It’s an opinion that more people care about D1 than D2 or D3?  LOL.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

MU82

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #686 on: September 29, 2019, 06:35:23 PM »
It’s an opinion that more people care about D1 than D2 or D3?  LOL.

No ...

it would ruin untold opportunities for non revenue sports

is an opinion. GAC.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #687 on: September 29, 2019, 11:47:30 PM »
No ...

it would ruin untold opportunities for non revenue sports

is an opinion. GAC.

Next time quote properly since you responded to multiple sentences.  And yes, that was an opinion as are most things on this forum. 

Free agency has been bad for pro sports except when they put in a salary cap and other mechanisms to offset the negative aspects of it.  It was killing the NBA until the latest CBA.  Surprised you didn’t know this.  MU Sports Law program has done several excellent research articles on this.  Would you like access to them?

Up transfers have increased 5X per SI in college hoops from mid majors since 2012....with a number of programs decimated as a result.  Coaches losing jobs, etc, because of the grad transfer rule.  Just another example you don’t want to pay attention to, and yet it has had a negative effect on mid majors.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/03/14/college-basketball-transfers-cinderella-ncaa-tournament 

And before someone trots out Loyola Chicago as somehow proof it isn’t happening....look at the totality of mid majors and the impact it is happening with free agency.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 12:05:24 AM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #688 on: September 30, 2019, 02:19:11 AM »
Up transfers have increased 5X per SI in college hoops from mid majors since 2012....with a number of programs decimated as a result.  Coaches losing jobs, etc, because of the grad transfer rule.  Just another example you don’t want to pay attention to, and yet it has had a negative effect on mid majors.

For every "up transfer" there are 2 or 3 "down transfers." According to the NCAA, only 2.6% of men's basketball players end up grad transferring at all. Most of those drop a level.

And before someone trots out Loyola Chicago as somehow proof it isn’t happening....look at the totality of mid majors and the impact it is happening with free agency.

Since the grad transfer rule was relaxed (8 years), 4 mid-majors have made the Final Four. In the 12 years prior, 7 mid-majors made the final four. Increase to 18 years prior and 9 mid-majors made the final four. Of those 9, 5 have since joined high major conferences (Butler x2, Marquette, Louisville, Utah), 2 were Calipari coached cheaters (Memphis, UMass), and 2 didn't cheat and are still mid-majors today (VCU, George Mason).

Mid-majors have never been consistent contenders in March at least not since the Metro conference disbanded. The Power 6 have always been in power. The grad transfer rule has nothing to do with that.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 07:17:13 AM by TAMU Eagle »
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muwarrior69

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #689 on: September 30, 2019, 04:33:35 AM »
For every "up transfer" there are 3 or 4 "down transfers." According to the NCAA, only 2.6% of men's basketball players end up grad transferring at all. Most of those drop a level.

Since the grad transfer rule was relaxed (8 years), 4 mid-majors have made the Final Four. In the 12 years prior, 7 mid-majors made the final four. Increase to 18 years prior and 9 mid-majors made the final four. Of those 9, 5 have since joined high major conferences (Butler x2, Marquette, Louisville, Utah), 2 were Calipari coached cheaters (Memphis, UMass), and 2 didn't cheat and are still mid-majors today (VCU, George Mason).

Mid-majors have never been consistent contenders in March at least not since the Metro conference disbanded. The Power 6 have always been in power. The grad transfer rule has nothing to do with that.

Wait! Marquette and Louisville are mid majors?

MU82

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #690 on: September 30, 2019, 07:04:16 AM »
Next time quote properly since you responded to multiple sentences.  And yes, that was an opinion as are most things on this forum. 

Free agency has been bad for pro sports except when they put in a salary cap and other mechanisms to offset the negative aspects of it.  It was killing the NBA until the latest CBA.  Surprised you didn’t know this.  MU Sports Law program has done several excellent research articles on this.  Would you like access to them?

Up transfers have increased 5X per SI in college hoops from mid majors since 2012....with a number of programs decimated as a result.  Coaches losing jobs, etc, because of the grad transfer rule.  Just another example you don’t want to pay attention to, and yet it has had a negative effect on mid majors.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/03/14/college-basketball-transfers-cinderella-ncaa-tournament 

And before someone trots out Loyola Chicago as somehow proof it isn’t happening....look at the totality of mid majors and the impact it is happening with free agency.

The grad transfer rule has been a resounding success and repealing it would just be the lords stepping on the throats of the serfs. The serfs with actual degrees.

Otherwise, so much wrong in here, as usual. TAMU pounded down most of your garbage nicely. I won't pile on.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #691 on: September 30, 2019, 07:18:56 AM »
Wait! Marquette and Louisville are mid majors?

Not sure if you're joking but no they aren't. They were when they were in CUSA
TAMU

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Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #692 on: September 30, 2019, 07:41:59 AM »
Not sure if you're joking but no they aren't. They were when they were in CUSA

Back when we were in the CUSA, it was not as good as the BEast, but it was far from a mid-major conference. 

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #693 on: September 30, 2019, 07:48:35 AM »
Not sure if you're joking but no they aren't. They were when they were in CUSA


No.  The lines between high and mid major were much more blurred back then.  No one referred to Marquette as a mid-major when they went to the Final Four.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 07:56:27 AM by Fluffy Blue Monster »
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #694 on: September 30, 2019, 07:49:23 AM »
The grad transfer rule has been a resounding success and repealing it would just be the lords stepping on the throats of the serfs. The serfs with actual degrees.

Otherwise, so much wrong in here, as usual. TAMU pounded down most of your garbage nicely. I won't pile on.


If anything, this shows that the chicken little prognostications are a load of bunk.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #695 on: September 30, 2019, 07:55:42 AM »
Free agency has been bad for pro sports except when they put in a salary cap and other mechanisms to offset the negative aspects of it.  It was killing the NBA until the latest CBA.  Surprised you didn’t know this.  MU Sports Law program has done several excellent research articles on this.  Would you like access to them?



Yes.  Please provide these.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #696 on: September 30, 2019, 09:12:34 AM »
California governor signs bill allowing college athletes to profit off their likenesses.
Somehow Gene Smith's threat didn't cower the governor.

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #697 on: September 30, 2019, 09:19:33 AM »
For every "up transfer" there are 2 or 3 "down transfers." According to the NCAA, only 2.6% of men's basketball players end up grad transferring at all. Most of those drop a level.

Since the grad transfer rule was relaxed (8 years), 4 mid-majors have made the Final Four. In the 12 years prior, 7 mid-majors made the final four. Increase to 18 years prior and 9 mid-majors made the final four. Of those 9, 5 have since joined high major conferences (Butler x2, Marquette, Louisville, Utah), 2 were Calipari coached cheaters (Memphis, UMass), and 2 didn't cheat and are still mid-majors today (VCU, George Mason).

Mid-majors have never been consistent contenders in March at least not since the Metro conference disbanded. The Power 6 have always been in power. The grad transfer rule has nothing to do with that.

I guess just ignore all the coaches in the article saying otherwise, ignore what it did to the programs that lost, 1, 2, 3 players and the teams were never the same.....yup, like it didn’t happen.

No one is disputing there are more down transfers then up transfers, the point was up transfers have increased exponentially the last five years.  You and others are again focusing on the few, not the programs hurt because apparently it doesn’t matter.

I am curious why you didn’t bother to address the concerns of the coaches who have lost so many players that they took a chance on, developed, etc.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #698 on: September 30, 2019, 09:20:29 AM »
California governor signs bill allowing college athletes to profit off their likenesses.
Somehow Gene Smith's threat didn't cower the governor.

California continues to lose more citizens last five years.....they know what is best for the people and spending time on taking care of NCAA athletes must mean they have solved the worst homeless crisis in the nation.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #699 on: September 30, 2019, 09:21:46 AM »
Not sure if you're joking but no they aren't. They were when they were in CUSA

LOL.   OMG
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

 

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