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Author Topic: Well that was a waste  (Read 206329 times)

forgetful

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #600 on: September 27, 2019, 01:03:42 PM »
That's not my best argument. My best argument is that college football, basketball, baseball and hockey players deserve the same right as all other college athletes, as well as all other college students, to attend the university of their choice, unimpeded by arbitrarily established and enforced rules that exist only to serve the interests (read: bottom lines) of athletic departments.

But I'll go along with Fluffy's one-time only rule. That seems a reasonable compromise.

When college students transfer, often times many of their credits don't transfer, and they are retaking classes to complete their degree, delaying their overall graduation. The process of determining which classes will transfer, or count towards a major is often somewhat arbitrary.

When graduate students transfer, often none of their progress towards a graduate degree will transfer, so they have to start over again from scratch.

Don't be so quick to say that they are being treated differently than any other college student, similar rules/regulations exist for just about any other student, where it can impact them in similar ways as the college athlete. The fact you are unaware of this, doesn't make it any more real.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #601 on: September 27, 2019, 01:10:57 PM »
nm
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #602 on: September 27, 2019, 01:18:02 PM »
Ah yes, OSU and their 30 sponsored sports, over 1000 student athletes....”good chunk” being shuffled...sure, some are....just as there are OSU students doing that on their own that don’t wear the crimson and grey. Lots of people choose the easiest path in life.   

Whether he is a garbage human being, I have no idea.  He did go to Notre Dame.

Thanks for admitting athletic departments have no problem not looking out for the athletes best interest to help win games and make more money for the athletic department by not giving them the best possible education, refuting the idea they are getting an invaluable educational experience.

This isn’t unique to Ohio State, of course.  It happens in places like Madison and Ann Arbor who like to hold their noses above Ohio State academically.
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #603 on: September 27, 2019, 01:22:43 PM »
When college students transfer, often times many of their credits don't transfer, and they are retaking classes to complete their degree, delaying their overall graduation. The process of determining which classes will transfer, or count towards a major is often somewhat arbitrary.

When graduate students transfer, often none of their progress towards a graduate degree will transfer, so they have to start over again from scratch.

Don't be so quick to say that they are being treated differently than any other college student, similar rules/regulations exist for just about any other student, where it can impact them in similar ways as the college athlete. The fact you are unaware of this, doesn't make it any more real.

These are not at all analogous circumstances.
It would be more akin to a school telling a physics major he can transfer, but has to take a year of philosophy before getting back to work on his/her degree.

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #604 on: September 27, 2019, 01:28:16 PM »
how about 1 transfer with a buyout...say 100K to the former school

Careful. That would be an admission that the labors of college athletes have significant financial value to schools.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #605 on: September 27, 2019, 02:22:41 PM »

I would only advocate for one immediately eligible transer per career.  And most "recruiting scandals" wouldn't exist if players could profit off their image.

If you want to do this right, players should be able to transfer at the end of every semester as many times as they want to until they graduate.  I have been beaten down.  I’m pro student athlete now.

lawdog77

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #606 on: September 27, 2019, 02:45:10 PM »
Careful. That would be an admission that the labors of college athletes have significant financial value to schools.
I think they should be paid a salary, and treated like employees. I just don't think the "likeness" angle is the way to do it. That is a pandora's box, in my opinion.

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #607 on: September 27, 2019, 03:32:17 PM »
Thanks for admitting athletic departments have no problem not looking out for the athletes best interest to help win games and make more money for the athletic department by not giving them the best possible education, refuting the idea they are getting an invaluable educational experience.

This isn’t unique to Ohio State, of course.  It happens in places like Madison and Ann Arbor who like to hold their noses above Ohio State academically.

I admitted no such thing.  I know too many men and women that work tirelessly with student athletes of all walks of life at major programs like OSU as well as small programs like USD..... that care deeply for the student athlete and their well being.  They cannot force a major on a kid, and if a kid has only one goal, what are they going to do?  Fortunately that isn’t the case for the vast majority of those 1000 kids at OSU.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #608 on: September 27, 2019, 03:34:55 PM »
I’m looking forward to other major schools doing the same thing.  #BoycottCalifornia #GoodForTheSoul

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

rocket surgeon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #609 on: September 27, 2019, 03:54:44 PM »
Yeah, that's totally irrelevant, satellite television sales guy.

all due respect cheeks, but this was funny-good one pakman!!
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #610 on: September 27, 2019, 03:59:27 PM »
I’m looking forward to other major schools doing the same thing.  #BoycottCalifornia #GoodForTheSoul

I am sure the B1G won’t miss their Rose Bowl/Football Playoff cash and will walk away from its contractual obligations.

WhiteTrash

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #611 on: September 27, 2019, 04:32:17 PM »
I am sure the B1G won’t miss their Rose Bowl/Football Playoff cash and will walk away from its contractual obligations.
I'm no fan of OSU or the B1G but I hope MU does the same thing if California schools obtain an unfair recruiting advantage. (I realize a lot of California schools are opposed to the law but regardless will benefit in recruiting).

And if this plays out to California having it's own version of the NCAA, than any games against say UCLA will not count towards our Tourney resume so why play them?

FWIW, I fully support California's right to form its own "NCAA". Who knows, maybe someday it will overtake the current NCAA. In the meantime, I despise the notion that the NCAA should dictate California law or that California should dictate NCAA rules. 

brewcity77

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #612 on: September 27, 2019, 04:44:39 PM »
Singling out California seems silly. South Carolina, Washington, Colorado, Maryland, and North Carolina are all either looking into similar legislation or changing tax codes to allow something similar. Over the next 4 years, that will likely be the tip of the iceberg. By the time we get to 2023, there will almost certainly be more than a dozen states (and that's probably a conservative number) with different rules all their own. Is the NCAA going to ban a quarter or more of the country?

There is only one answer to that question. The NCAA must come up with their own model to allow players to earn money off their likeness rights. Though I'm curious how we got here when this was about the sanctions coming then not coming now coming again but not in the time promised and probably not to the extent promised and OH MY GOD LOOK OUT GEORGIA TECH!!!
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MU82

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #613 on: September 27, 2019, 05:12:22 PM »
My best argument is that college football, basketball, baseball and hockey players deserve the same right as all other college athletes, as well as all other college students, to attend the university of their choice, unimpeded by arbitrarily established and enforced rules that exist only to serve the interests (read: bottom lines) of athletic departments.

But I'll go along with Fluffy's one-time only rule. That seems a reasonable compromise.

Yessir.

And frankly, I don't believe Gene Smith. The ball is rolling on this. Soon, he would have to pledge to not play a huge chunk of the country. Cool, if the hypocrite wants to play it like he claims he will.
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Shooter McGavin

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #614 on: September 27, 2019, 05:22:51 PM »
Can’t go with fluffys rule of only one transfer without having to sit a year if you are a real believer in the cause. Has to be unlimited transfers without consequences.   A real free agency where there is a bidding war every semester for these student athletes services.   Nothing less will satisfy either the goal of freedom of movement and payment for likeness.   

79Warrior

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #615 on: September 27, 2019, 05:28:45 PM »
I’m looking forward to other major schools doing the same thing.  #BoycottCalifornia #GoodForTheSoul

I don't think CA give a sh## if OSU boycotts the state. You on the other hand should quickly move your family away. Can't believe you would work in such a state.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #616 on: September 27, 2019, 05:33:41 PM »
I am sure the B1G won’t miss their Rose Bowl/Football Playoff cash and will walk away from its contractual obligations.

If there’s one thing the Big Ten plus 4 loves more than anything, it’s that sweet cash.  Winning, graduating, alumni success all takes a back seat to that sweet cash.
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #617 on: September 27, 2019, 05:39:33 PM »
I admitted no such thing.  I know too many men and women that work tirelessly with student athletes of all walks of life at major programs like OSU as well as small programs like USD..... that care deeply for the student athlete and their well being.  They cannot force a major on a kid, and if a kid has only one goal, what are they going to do?  Fortunately that isn’t the case for the vast majority of those 1000 kids at OSU.
.

I also know people.  I knew the girl who did a lot of the schoolwork for the ‘98 Badgers Rose Bowl team, at least the defensive side.  aMaTeUrISM
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

forgetful

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #618 on: September 27, 2019, 05:43:23 PM »
These are not at all analogous circumstances.
It would be more akin to a school telling a physics major he can transfer, but has to take a year of philosophy before getting back to work on his/her degree.

No it is not "more akin" to that. In fact, your "more akin" scenario is nothing like either case whatsoever.

What it is like is saying that there are things that negatively impact all students that transfer, and that each is specific to that individual field. Athletes are not being treated differently than any other transfer, the way they are treated, like everyone else, is specific to their field/discipline.

Even exactly similar scenarios exist. For instance many opportunities (career specific), such as internships, research, etc., require satisfactory completion of core courses. Often times, these core courses may not transfer, meaning a student who transfers between universities needs to establish essentially a year in residence, completing the similar courses, in order to participate in their career-specific opportunities (e.g. athletics).


The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #619 on: September 27, 2019, 08:07:56 PM »
Can’t go with fluffys rule of only one transfer without having to sit a year if you are a real believer in the cause. Has to be unlimited transfers without consequences.   A real free agency where there is a bidding war every semester for these student athletes services.   Nothing less will satisfy either the goal of freedom of movement and payment for likeness.   

Don’t be absurd. No one is arguing that no rules should exist.

But I guess if that’s what you have to resort to...
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #620 on: September 27, 2019, 08:10:06 PM »
No it is not "more akin" to that. In fact, your "more akin" scenario is nothing like either case whatsoever.

What it is like is saying that there are things that negatively impact all students that transfer, and that each is specific to that individual field. Athletes are not being treated differently than any other transfer, the way they are treated, like everyone else, is specific to their field/discipline.

Even exactly similar scenarios exist. For instance many opportunities (career specific), such as internships, research, etc., require satisfactory completion of core courses. Often times, these core courses may not transfer, meaning a student who transfers between universities needs to establish essentially a year in residence, completing the similar courses, in order to participate in their career-specific opportunities (e.g. athletics).



Really dumb comparison.  How and why academics don’t transfer has nothing to do with athletics.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #621 on: September 27, 2019, 08:11:20 PM »
Athletes are not being treated differently than any other transfer, the way they are treated, like everyone else, is specific to their field/discipline.

Orwell would be proud.

oldwarrior81

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #622 on: September 27, 2019, 08:17:03 PM »
Most of those athletes at Ohio State could also maximize earning potential while being Buckeyes.  And I’ll confidently say a good chunk of the athletes at Ohio State are being shuffled through the easiest academic path they can be so as to not interfere with winning games.

Gene Smith is a garbage human being

speaking of academics at tOSU, anyone remember linebacker Andy Katzenmoyer?

He needed to get his grades up to be eligible in the Fall.   He took summer classes in Golf, Sexual Awareness and Music Appreciation.
The joke out of Ann Arbor was his final exam must have been watching the movie Caddyshack.


forgetful

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #623 on: September 27, 2019, 08:34:37 PM »
Really dumb comparison.  How and why academics don’t transfer has nothing to do with athletics.

Actually, it has a ton to do with it. One of the reasons for the year in residence is for students to acclimate to the new environment to keep them on track to graduate while they are still a student athlete.

Part of that acclimation is adapting to differences in degree tracks, and catching up on any credits that didn't transfer. So the original reasons for why athletes sit out a year has a ton to do with athletics. It also has a lot to do why graduate transfers can be immediately eligible. The same doesn't apply, in terms of catching up, adjusting, when you are starting over from scratch.

You can stick your head in the sand and ignore these obvious aspects, but then all you are doing is deciding what you believe in and denying any reality that disagrees with your preconceived notion.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #624 on: September 27, 2019, 08:44:05 PM »
Actually, it has a ton to do with it. One of the reasons for the year in residence is for students to acclimate to the new environment to keep them on track to graduate while they are still a student athlete.

Part of that acclimation is adapting to differences in degree tracks, and catching up on any credits that didn't transfer. So the original reasons for why athletes sit out a year has a ton to do with athletics. It also has a lot to do why graduate transfers can be immediately eligible. The same doesn't apply, in terms of catching up, adjusting, when you are starting over from scratch.

You can stick your head in the sand and ignore these obvious aspects, but then all you are doing is deciding what you believe in and denying any reality that disagrees with your preconceived notion.

Nah.

Your lame arguments are easily shot down once it is pointed out that the NCAA doesn’t require a year in residence at the D2 and D3 levels. Nor do they require it in most D1 sports.

So it really has nothing to do with academics.

Any other softballs that I can bang out of the park or are you heading to the showers?
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

 

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