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Author Topic: Well that was a waste  (Read 206281 times)

lawdog77

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #575 on: September 27, 2019, 05:35:21 AM »
Coaches leave for greener pastures all the time. Never have to sit out a year. just get richer and richer and richer. Buyout clauses are a joke.

Players? They are under "contract" and locked in. "That 18-year-old knew exactly what he was doing. Screw him! And no, his likeness belongs to somebody else, too!"
I think much of the "likeness" argument and hand wringing would go away if high schoolers were allowed to go straight to the NBA.

brewcity77

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #576 on: September 27, 2019, 05:56:17 AM »
Why do the mid major coaches disagree?

Because they are only focusing on themselves. When you are at an Oakland or Cleveland State and see your guys leaving, it feels like a one-way street because you aren't spending any time looking at what's happening a block over.

Also, I thought you were a proponent of saying the NCAA offers equal opportunities to all student athletes. If that's the case, what difference does it make if a guy is playing at UTSA or UCLA? If the NCAA is really doing so much to make things fair and equal under the current system, surely the only difference is the zip code.
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #577 on: September 27, 2019, 06:07:57 AM »
I think much of the "likeness" argument and hand wringing would go away if high schoolers were allowed to go straight to the NBA.

It’s not just a basketball argument but a football argument and quite frankly, an argument for all student athletes.  It isn’t just the 5% as some claim
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Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #578 on: September 27, 2019, 10:53:06 AM »
Why do the mid major coaches disagree?

Do mid major coaches believe they should have to sit out a year before moving on to another program?

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #579 on: September 27, 2019, 11:34:38 AM »
Do mid major coaches believe they should have to sit out a year before moving on to another program?

Mid major coaches are concerned that if immediate eligibility were allowed they would become a farm system for high majors.  It happens already with the year in residence requirement (Seth Curry, Rowsey) but imagine if guys like Damian Lillard, CJ McCollum or Steph Curry had been allowed to transfer and play immediately, high major coaches would rented apartments in those locales to recruit them away.
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brewcity77

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #580 on: September 27, 2019, 11:38:17 AM »
Mid major coaches are concerned that if immediate eligibility were allowed they would become a farm system for high majors.  It happens already with the year in residence requirement (Seth Curry, Rowsey) but imagine if guys like Damian Lillard, CJ McCollum or Steph Curry had been allowed to transfer and play immediately, high major coaches would rented apartments in those locales to recruit them away.

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Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #581 on: September 27, 2019, 11:46:25 AM »
Do mid major coaches believe they should have to sit out a year before moving on to another program?

Why are you conflating two different things?  One is an employee, the other is not...established in law.  You should know this, counselor.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #582 on: September 27, 2019, 11:47:23 AM »
Ohio State says it will not schedule California schools because of new law.  Love it.  Go Buckeyes. 



Ohio State AD: We Won't Schedule California Schools With NIL Bill

September 27, 2019


OSU AD Gene Smith doesn't see how California schools can remain NCAA members if the NIL bill passes

Photo: GETTY IMAGES
 
Ohio State AD Gene Smith will not "schedule games against California schools for dates after Jan. 1, 2023," if the state passes its Fair Pay to Play act, according to Steve Berkowitz of USA TODAY. Smith indicated that the "uncertainty surrounding a potential difference between California law and NCAA rules" should California Gov. Gavin Newsom pass the bill would lead him to that decision. That is because Smith does not see how colleges in the state "could remain NCAA members unless differences between the law and the NCAA's rules can be resolved." Smith said, "If the California law goes into effect in '23, and let's say the NCAA legislation, how ever it emerges, doesn't quite meet what California wants it to be and they continue to hold that law, who's going to play (California schools)? We're certainly not. They won't be members of the NCAA. I think that's going to be the problem." Smith added if Newsom signs the NIL bill, California schools are going to have a "model where they can almost pay for play -- not quite -- but I think they're going to be challenged to maintain their membership in the association because, as an association, we have the authority as a group to make our own rules and regulations, and they will be outside those rules and regulations."

TIME TO WORK THINGS OUT? Should Newsom pass the act, which passed a state legislature vote earlier this month, it would not be enacted until '23. Smith is co-chairing an NCAA working group to examine name, image and likeness, and he said, "What's fortunate is we have till 2023, and I'm hopeful that once our working group completes its work and the association goes through next year, we can get to a point where we mitigate this. But if it stands as it is, and other states create similar legislation, then we've got a big issue" (USA TODAY, 9/27).
 
 

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #583 on: September 27, 2019, 11:58:59 AM »
Ohio State says it will not schedule California schools because of new law.  Love it.  Go Buckeyes. 



Ohio State AD: We Won't Schedule California Schools With NIL Bill

September 27, 2019


OSU AD Gene Smith doesn't see how California schools can remain NCAA members if the NIL bill passes

Photo: GETTY IMAGES
 
Ohio State AD Gene Smith will not "schedule games against California schools for dates after Jan. 1, 2023," if the state passes its Fair Pay to Play act, according to Steve Berkowitz of USA TODAY. Smith indicated that the "uncertainty surrounding a potential difference between California law and NCAA rules" should California Gov. Gavin Newsom pass the bill would lead him to that decision. That is because Smith does not see how colleges in the state "could remain NCAA members unless differences between the law and the NCAA's rules can be resolved." Smith said, "If the California law goes into effect in '23, and let's say the NCAA legislation, how ever it emerges, doesn't quite meet what California wants it to be and they continue to hold that law, who's going to play (California schools)? We're certainly not. They won't be members of the NCAA. I think that's going to be the problem." Smith added if Newsom signs the NIL bill, California schools are going to have a "model where they can almost pay for play -- not quite -- but I think they're going to be challenged to maintain their membership in the association because, as an association, we have the authority as a group to make our own rules and regulations, and they will be outside those rules and regulations."

TIME TO WORK THINGS OUT? Should Newsom pass the act, which passed a state legislature vote earlier this month, it would not be enacted until '23. Smith is co-chairing an NCAA working group to examine name, image and likeness, and he said, "What's fortunate is we have till 2023, and I'm hopeful that once our working group completes its work and the association goes through next year, we can get to a point where we mitigate this. But if it stands as it is, and other states create similar legislation, then we've got a big issue" (USA TODAY, 9/27).

The department with a budget bigger than some countries has a problem with a players getting a piece of the pie. That’s rich, pun intended. 

I mean, the AD that hired Urban Meyer commenting on anything and then letting them bring Kevin Wilson aboard does not have players interests in mind whatsoever
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #584 on: September 27, 2019, 12:14:21 PM »
The department with a budget bigger than some countries has a problem with a players getting a piece of the pie. That’s rich, pun intended. 

I mean, the AD that hired Urban Meyer commenting on anything and then letting them bring Kevin Wilson aboard does not have players interests in mind whatsoever

If you want to go there, the value provided today for these student athletes is more than many people in some countries make over an entire LIFETIME.   
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #585 on: September 27, 2019, 12:19:20 PM »
Because they are only focusing on themselves. When you are at an Oakland or Cleveland State and see your guys leaving, it feels like a one-way street because you aren't spending any time looking at what's happening a block over.

Also, I thought you were a proponent of saying the NCAA offers equal opportunities to all student athletes. If that's the case, what difference does it make if a guy is playing at UTSA or UCLA? If the NCAA is really doing so much to make things fair and equal under the current system, surely the only difference is the zip code.

Can be as simple as one team is primed to have a chance to win it all so the student athlete leaves as he is poached to be the final piece.  The cascading domino impact as everyone feeds of each other would be very bad for college sports.  There is a reason why this isn’t allowed in pro sports....this the great irony of some here wanting to make these kids like pros, yet even the pro leagues are smart enough not to allow this insanity.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #586 on: September 27, 2019, 12:20:13 PM »
If you want to go there, the value provided today for these student athletes is more than many people in some countries make over an entire LIFETIME.

Most of those athletes at Ohio State could also maximize earning potential while being Buckeyes.  And I’ll confidently say a good chunk of the athletes at Ohio State are being shuffled through the easiest academic path they can be so as to not interfere with winning games.

Gene Smith is a garbage human being
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #587 on: September 27, 2019, 12:40:24 PM »
Mid major coaches are concerned that if immediate eligibility were allowed they would become a farm system for high majors.  It happens already with the year in residence requirement (Seth Curry, Rowsey) but imagine if guys like Damian Lillard, CJ McCollum or Steph Curry had been allowed to transfer and play immediately, high major coaches would rented apartments in those locales to recruit them away.

In other words, mid-major coaches fear dealing with the consequences of their players having the same freedom of movement they enjoy.
And while they have zero problem putting their former schools in a bind by bailing whenever it's in their best interests, they can't stand for facing the same bind themselves.
We agree.

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #588 on: September 27, 2019, 12:42:49 PM »
Ohio State says it will not schedule California schools because of new law.  Love it.  Go Buckeyes. 



Ohio State AD: We Won't Schedule California Schools With NIL Bill


Gene Smith - Defender of Virtue in College Athletics.

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #589 on: September 27, 2019, 12:45:28 PM »
Why are you conflating two different things?  One is an employee, the other is not...established in law.  You should know this, counselor.

Yeah, that's totally irrelevant, satellite television sales guy.

TallTitan34

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #590 on: September 27, 2019, 12:46:40 PM »
I can’t even begin to imagine the chaos of having every player being a free agent each year.  If you thing the recruiting scandals are bad now wait until you start all of the tampering scandals.


Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #591 on: September 27, 2019, 12:47:24 PM »
In other words, mid-major coaches fear dealing with the consequences of their players having the same freedom of movement they enjoy.
And while they have zero problem putting their former schools in a bind by bailing whenever it's in their best interests, they can't stand for facing the same bind themselves.
We agree.

Not to be negative, but if the best argument you have for free agency is fairness vis a vie coaches than it’s not that compelling.

There is a real case for increasing comp and or benefits for b-ball players.  IMO Those should all though be viewed through the lens of improving the competitiveness and attraction of the sport.  Otherwise any gains made by players will be short lived.

In my opinion, the proposals with the most energy on this site (free agency & selling likeness) have the most likelihood of benefitting few vs many (both schools and players)

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #592 on: September 27, 2019, 12:49:13 PM »
If you want to go there, the value provided today for these student athletes is more than many people in some countries make over an entire LIFETIME.   


I doubt you would use the same logic to cap CEO pay.
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Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #593 on: September 27, 2019, 12:50:01 PM »
I can’t even begin to imagine the chaos of having every player being a free agent each year.  If you thing the recruiting scandals are bad now wait until you start all of the tampering scandals.

Every player already is a free agent every year. The only question is whether or not he/she has to sit out a year.
Do you ever wonder why the NCAA imposes that rule only on some of its athletes?

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #594 on: September 27, 2019, 12:50:12 PM »
I can’t even begin to imagine the chaos of having every player being a free agent each year.  If you thing the recruiting scandals are bad now wait until you start all of the tampering scandals.


I would only advocate for one immediately eligible transer per career.  And most "recruiting scandals" wouldn't exist if players could profit off their image.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #595 on: September 27, 2019, 12:54:24 PM »
Not to be negative, but if the best argument you have for free agency is fairness vis a vie coaches than it’s not that compelling.

That's not my best argument. My best argument is that college football, basketball, baseball and hockey players deserve the same right as all other college athletes, as well as all other college students, to attend the university of their choice, unimpeded by arbitrarily established and enforced rules that exist only to serve the interests (read: bottom lines) of athletic departments.

But I'll go along with Fluffy's one-time only rule. That seems a reasonable compromise.

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #596 on: September 27, 2019, 12:57:59 PM »
Most of those athletes at Ohio State could also maximize earning potential while being Buckeyes.  And I’ll confidently say a good chunk of the athletes at Ohio State are being shuffled through the easiest academic path they can be so as to not interfere with winning games.

Gene Smith is a garbage human being

Ah yes, OSU and their 30 sponsored sports, over 1000 student athletes....”good chunk” being shuffled...sure, some are....just as there are OSU students doing that on their own that don’t wear the crimson and grey. Lots of people choose the easiest path in life.   

Whether he is a garbage human being, I have no idea.  He did go to Notre Dame. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #597 on: September 27, 2019, 01:01:44 PM »
In other words, mid-major coaches fear dealing with the consequences of their players having the same freedom of movement they enjoy.
And while they have zero problem putting their former schools in a bind by bailing whenever it's in their best interests, they can't stand for facing the same bind themselves.
We agree.

Lots of things college graduates get to do that non college graduates cannot.  Including actions as an employee, which coaches are, vs student athletes who are not employees.  Life has all kinds of rules.  Conflating them is a loser’s errand.

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

lawdog77

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #598 on: September 27, 2019, 01:02:23 PM »
That's not my best argument. My best argument is that college football, basketball, baseball and hockey players deserve the same right as all other college athletes, as well as all other college students, to attend the university of their choice, unimpeded by arbitrarily established and enforced rules that exist only to serve the interests (read: bottom lines) of athletic departments.

But I'll go along with Fluffy's one-time only rule. That seems a reasonable compromise.
how about 1 transfer with a buyout...say 100K to the former school

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #599 on: September 27, 2019, 01:03:23 PM »
Yeah, that's totally irrelevant, satellite television sales guy.
[/quote

It is irrelevant that one is an employee and the other is not?  LOL.

You have my occupation incorrect, but that’s ok.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

 

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