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Author Topic: Well that was a waste  (Read 44547 times)

cheebs09

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #425 on: September 20, 2019, 05:09:55 PM »
Is it?  Self has been linked to the NBA for years or he could just get a job in TV.  The media will rehab him regardless.

Kelvin Sampson received one in 2008 and is now “well-respected” at Houston after turning that program around.  Sampson got his show cause while at Indiana and still found a college job.  Self may wander a bit but if he wanted, he’d back in the college game at some point and I bet some people would take him here.

I meant from a Kansas perspective. I’m sure they’d get a lot of good candidates, but being forced to remove your coach seems to be a significant penalty. I’d hope there’s more on top of it.

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #426 on: September 20, 2019, 05:14:28 PM »
Is it?  Self has been linked to the NBA for years or he could just get a job in TV.  The media will rehab him regardless.

Kelvin Sampson received one in 2008 and is now “well-respected” at Houston after turning that program around.  Sampson got his show cause while at Indiana and still found a college job.  Self may wander a bit but if he wanted, he’d back in the college game at some point and I bet some people would take him here.

Sampson was out of the college game for a number of years...and yes someone would probably take Self just as some businesses would take a flyer on a top salesman who is a drunk and abused his expense account.  That’s hardly new.

Mike Rice is still out of college coaching.  Todd Bozeman was for years, and now at a much lower level.  The list goes on and on.  But yes you can always find a few that will line up with any argument.
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #427 on: September 20, 2019, 05:15:44 PM »
I meant from a Kansas perspective. I’m sure they’d get a lot of good candidates, but being forced to remove your coach seems to be a significant penalty. I’d hope there’s more on top of it.

Ah, gotcha.  Honestly, if I were Kansas, I’d cut the cord now.  That’s just me, though.  If Louisville could get Chris Mack, there’s no reason Kansas couldn’t land a top candidate.  Be a great landing spot for Billy Donovan.  Come in, expect the worst, low early expectations and still be at Kansas
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #428 on: September 20, 2019, 05:18:21 PM »
Sampson was out of the college game for a number of years...and yes someone would probably take Self just as some businesses would take a flyer on a top salesman who is a drunk and abused his expense account.  That’s hardly new.

Mike Rice is still out of college coaching.  Todd Bozeman was for years, and now at a much lower level.  The list goes on and on.  But yes you can always find a few that will line up with any argument.

So your buddy hired Sampson at Houston.  Thoughts?

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #429 on: September 20, 2019, 05:19:00 PM »
Sampson was out of the college game for a number of years...and yes someone would probably take Self just as some businesses would take a flyer on a top salesman who is a drunk and abused his expense account.  That’s hardly new.

Mike Rice is still out of college coaching.  Todd Bozeman was for years, and now at a much lower level.  The list goes on and on.  But yes you can always find a few that will line up with any argument.
.

Mike Rice abused his players and didn’t win a lot at Rutgers.  Todd Bozeman had a sexual harassment case hanging over his head as well as paying players.  Completely different circumstances. 
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Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #430 on: September 20, 2019, 05:26:23 PM »
So your buddy hired Sampson at Houston.  Thoughts?

As stated, he is a well regarded basketball coach, and some of his violations are not even violations today based on the new rules.  Others still are and he left IU in a mess.  Not the guy would have hired, but to my knowledge it has worked out...he hasn’t been on shaky ground like Pearl and others that just cannot stop with the hand in the cookie jar.   You can use Google to get the complete reasons why on the hire.


 
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #431 on: September 20, 2019, 05:33:32 PM »
.

Mike Rice abused his players and didn’t win a lot at Rutgers.  Todd Bozeman had a sexual harassment case hanging over his head as well as paying players.  Completely different circumstances.

Bozeman’s show cause was related to paying Gardiner.  Any sexual assault allegation had zero to do with the show cause from the NCAA.

Mike Rice has great success at Robert Morris, the type of mid major that schools hire from.  What Mike did is what college and pro coaches did for years, before video was capturing it all.  Was it a terrible look...yup.  You should have gone to a KO practice...thank God people weren’t capturing video back then. 

Plenty of other examples...including Pitino who will never coach again at a NCAA D1 program. 
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #432 on: September 20, 2019, 05:37:08 PM »
Bozeman’s show cause was related to paying Gardiner.  Any sexual assault allegation had zero to do with the show cause from the NCAA.

Mike Rice has great success at Robert Morris, the type of mid major that schools hire from.  What Mike did is what college and pro coaches did for years, before video was capturing it all.  Was it a terrible look...yup.  You should have gone to a KO practice...thank God people weren’t capturing video back then. 

Plenty of other examples...including Pitino who will never coach again at a NCAA D1 program.

None of which has to do with Bill Self and Kansas.

Also, if Rick Pitino were ten years younger, he’d absolutely coach in the NCAA again at the D1 level
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 05:40:17 PM by Uncle Rico »
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Loose Cannon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #433 on: September 20, 2019, 05:45:40 PM »

I'll Wait.
" If you are in a vehicle traveling at the speed of Light and you turn the light on...What Happens"....Steven Wright.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #434 on: September 20, 2019, 07:12:21 PM »
Bozeman’s show cause was related to paying Gardiner.  Any sexual assault allegation had zero to do with the show cause from the NCAA.

Mike Rice has great success at Robert Morris, the type of mid major that schools hire from.  What Mike did is what college and pro coaches did for years, before video was capturing it all.  Was it a terrible look...yup.  You should have gone to a KO practice...thank God people weren’t capturing video back then. 

Plenty of other examples...including Pitino who will never coach again at a NCAA D1 program.

hows about a bobby knight practice?  hell, you didn't need to see his practices to see he was a tough coach.  just go to one of his chair throwing contests
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jesmu84

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #435 on: September 20, 2019, 07:29:23 PM »
Bozeman’s show cause was related to paying Gardiner.  Any sexual assault allegation had zero to do with the show cause from the NCAA.

Mike Rice has great success at Robert Morris, the type of mid major that schools hire from.  What Mike did is what college and pro coaches did for years, before video was capturing it all. Was it a terrible look...yup.  You should have gone to a KO practice...thank God people weren’t capturing video back then. 

Plenty of other examples...including Pitino who will never coach again at a NCAA D1 program.

Isn't that a sad commentary? Much like the Ray Rice tape. It's only bad enough for a punishment or severe punishment when there's video? Horrible.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #436 on: September 20, 2019, 07:42:03 PM »
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Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #437 on: September 20, 2019, 07:44:50 PM »
None of which has to do with Bill Self and Kansas.

Also, if Rick Pitino were ten years younger, he’d absolutely coach in the NCAA again at the D1 level

You have no idea if that is true, purely speculation.  You were the one that said these guys make it back, and not all of them do.
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #438 on: September 20, 2019, 07:47:00 PM »
Isn't that a sad commentary? Much like the Ray Rice tape. It's only bad enough for a punishment or severe punishment when there's video? Horrible.

Maybe, but there are also plenty of old timers that will say that's how it was, and that's what toughened people up.  It was a different time (not Rice's, but times earlier when this was normal).  Hell, ask my generation or older about spanking kids vs today....yet a lot of people grew up just fine after being spanked.  It's a different approach.  One is hard, one is soft.  Some people need hard, some people need soft.  There are former players that hated KO, hated Knight, hated Woody at OSU, and so many others during their time who now say it is what I needed.  Different strokes for different folks.  Maybe that's sad, maybe it isn't....depends on the person.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 07:49:26 PM by Cheeks »
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #439 on: September 20, 2019, 07:50:25 PM »
You have no idea if that is true, purely speculation.  You were the one that said these guys make it back, and not all of them do.

No, I said Bill Self would make it back.  And he will/would. 
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Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #440 on: September 20, 2019, 07:55:06 PM »
No, I said Bill Self would make it back.  And he will/would.

You also said if Pitino was 10 years younger he would....you don't know that.  MU82 is demanding facts only, not opinion.
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Uncle Rico

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #441 on: September 20, 2019, 07:58:15 PM »
You also said if Pitino was 10 years younger he would....you don't know that.  MU82 is demanding facts only, not opinion.

You don’t know Marquette will have to drop down levels if athletes get paid for their likeness but say they will. 

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Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #442 on: September 20, 2019, 08:01:48 PM »
You don’t know Marquette will have to drop down levels if athletes get paid for their likeness but say they will.

100% correct, it is my opinion!
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

brewcity77

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #443 on: September 20, 2019, 08:14:03 PM »
Would anyone really be that surprised if Pitino coached again? He didn't likely turn down Panathinaikos' offer to return after winning the championship in order to sit idly by in the US. I could see him getting one more shot.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #444 on: September 20, 2019, 08:18:28 PM »
Would anyone really be that surprised if Pitino coached again? He didn't likely turn down Panathinaikos' offer to return after winning the championship in order to sit idly by in the US. I could see him getting one more shot.

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jesmu84

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #445 on: September 20, 2019, 08:49:50 PM »
Maybe, but there are also plenty of old timers that will say that's how it was, and that's what toughened people up.  It was a different time (not Rice's, but times earlier when this was normal).  Hell, ask my generation or older about spanking kids vs today....yet a lot of people grew up just fine after being spanked.  It's a different approach.  One is hard, one is soft.  Some people need hard, some people need soft.  There are former players that hated KO, hated Knight, hated Woody at OSU, and so many others during their time who now say it is what I needed.  Different strokes for different folks.  Maybe that's sad, maybe it isn't....depends on the person.

That part, I understand.

I just mean about punishments, or the severity of punishment, is dependent on video evidence of the infraction. Ray Rice is just about the perfect example. Gets a hand-slap. Then video comes out. Then he's out of the league.

IMO, he should have been out of the league regardless of the video because of the infraction.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #446 on: September 20, 2019, 08:49:55 PM »
Even Baylor, who has had the harshest penalties in major D1 ball the last 20 years, returned to near the top of college basketball. And likely cheating too.

Don’t expect any sanctions for Kansas to have a lasting impact. Fans don’t care. Prospects don’t care.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #447 on: September 20, 2019, 11:22:15 PM »
That part, I understand.

I just mean about punishments, or the severity of punishment, is dependent on video evidence of the infraction. Ray Rice is just about the perfect example. Gets a hand-slap. Then video comes out. Then he's out of the league.

IMO, he should have been out of the league regardless of the video because of the infraction.

Because the video was evidence.  How many people wrongly charged by crazy people out for a buck that they also have to protect against.  It goes both ways.  Look at the videos out there showing someone claiming cop assaulted them or whatever and then the body cam shows person was full of crap.  Evidence needed.
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Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #448 on: September 21, 2019, 08:03:42 AM »

WhiteTrash

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #449 on: September 21, 2019, 08:25:35 AM »
Even Baylor, who has had the harshest penalties in major D1 ball the last 20 years, returned to near the top of college basketball. And likely cheating too.

Don’t expect any sanctions for Kansas to have a lasting impact. Fans don’t care. Prospects don’t care.
Baylor "returned to near the top of college basketball". When was Baylor ever near the top of college basketball?

Maybe I'm wrong but isn't this Scott Drew era by far the pinnacol of Baylor basketball?

You are correct, Baylor instituted a 'win at all cost' policy for sports to raise the profile of the school. And I believe one could say it has worked from a strictly financial perspective.

As for Kansas, I feel you are correct also. They have always cheated to win and always will. Business as usual.

 

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