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Author Topic: Well that was a waste  (Read 206367 times)

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #325 on: September 10, 2019, 10:34:48 AM »
Did you read what the legislation does, or are you simply taking Cheeks' word for it?

First, this law has already existed for four years  kids up to 3rd grade, without apocalyptic consequences. This law only extends it through eighth grade.

Second, it does not prevent teachers from removing disruptive or defiant kids from class. It does not mean "no consequences." It just requires districts to do something other than keeping young kids - again, we're talking about grade schoolers here - home from school.  It changes nothing for high school kids.

Third, this has been the policy in the LA district since 2013, again, without  apocalyptic consequences. In fact, graduations have gone up ... though I'm not sure there's a proven causation there.

Fourth, this had the endorsement of state school administrator and parent-teacher organizations. The state teacher's union took no official stance.

I didnt read the legislation, no.  Thank you for your concern to set the record straight with bullet points

Madison schools have gone to a somewhat similar policy of not disciplining kids and the high schools are disasters.  No accountability for kids, paperwork nightmares for the teachers, violence in the classrooms, and the rowdy few are ruining things for the rest of the students.

God bless America.

Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #326 on: September 10, 2019, 10:39:00 AM »
I didnt read the legislation, no.  Thank you for your concern to set the record straight with bullet points

Madison schools have gone to a somewhat similar policy of not disciplining kids and the high schools are disasters.  No accountability for kids, paperwork nightmares for the teachers, violence in the classrooms, and the rowdy few are ruining things for the rest of the students.

God bless America.

Wait?, so u are telling me Chicos is completely talking out of his ass?
This is surprising to me.
Political free board, plz leave your clever quips in your clever mind.

brewcity77

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #327 on: September 10, 2019, 10:46:49 AM »
     many of us here want to know how you guys decide what and when something is offensive.

The Society to Nominate Offensive Words For Losers And Knackered Emotions (or SNOWFLAKE) meets in the Starbucks basement every Thursday at 4:20. Wine is provided, but you have to purchase your own Avocado Toast.
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Jon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #328 on: September 10, 2019, 10:56:23 AM »
Suspensions always have been, and continue to be bad forms of punishment. Kids that don't really want to be in school, being punished by being removed from school.

It's like punishing a person for eating junk food, by only letting them have cake for dinner.

The students are still being punished for creating disturbances, they are now just a more useful form of punishment.


Jon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #329 on: September 10, 2019, 10:57:57 AM »
The Society to Nominate Offensive Words For Losers And Knackered Emotions (or SNOWFLAKE) meets in the Starbucks basement every Thursday at 4:20. Wine is provided, but you have to purchase your own Avocado Toast.


4everwarriors

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #330 on: September 10, 2019, 10:59:59 AM »
So you are advocating for students to be able to yell at and talk back to their teachers?  No consequences?

Good luck to those kids in the job market when they graduate,  assuming they do graduate or apply for jobs.



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Jon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #331 on: September 10, 2019, 11:01:36 AM »
Did you read what the legislation does, or are you simply taking Cheeks' word for it?

First, this law has already existed for four years  kids up to 3rd grade, without apocalyptic consequences. This law only extends it through eighth grade.

Second, it does not prevent teachers from removing disruptive or defiant kids from class. It does not mean "no consequences." It just requires districts to do something other than keeping young kids - again, we're talking about grade schoolers here - home from school.  It changes nothing for high school kids.

Third, this has been the policy in the LA district since 2013, again, without  apocalyptic consequences. In fact, graduations have gone up ... though I'm not sure there's a proven causation there.

Fourth, this had the endorsement of state school administrator and parent-teacher organizations. The state teacher's union took no official stance.


Jon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #332 on: September 10, 2019, 11:04:00 AM »
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 11:05:36 AM by Jon »

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #333 on: September 10, 2019, 11:10:39 AM »
I didnt read the legislation, no.  Thank you for your concern to set the record straight with bullet points

Madison schools have gone to a somewhat similar policy of not disciplining kids and the high schools are disasters.  No accountability for kids, paperwork nightmares for the teachers, violence in the classrooms, and the rowdy few are ruining things for the rest of the students.

What you say is happening in Madison, Wisconsin high schools probably doesn't have much to do with what's happening in California grade schools, but thanks for the cool story.
Please continue with the hot takes on subjects you admittedly know nothing about.

muguru

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #334 on: September 10, 2019, 11:11:10 AM »
I mean...don't you HAVE to do something??

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Jon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #335 on: September 10, 2019, 11:12:00 AM »
Who is "you guys"?

Did those same "guys" weaponize the word 'snowflake'?

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Jon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #336 on: September 10, 2019, 11:14:04 AM »
What you say is happening in Madison, Wisconsin high schools probably doesn't have much to do with what's happening in California grade schools, but thanks for the cool story.
Please continue with the hot takes on subjects you admittedly know nothing about.


ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #337 on: September 10, 2019, 11:31:58 AM »
What you say is happening in Madison, Wisconsin high schools probably doesn't have much to do with what's happening in California grade schools, but thanks for the cool story.
Please continue with the hot takes on subjects you admittedly know nothing about.

I was explaining my frame of reference.  Please continue knowing everything about everything.  I bow down befor your superior knowledge. Master.

God bless America.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #338 on: September 10, 2019, 12:36:18 PM »
What you say is happening in Madison, Wisconsin high schools probably doesn't have much to do with what's happening in California grade schools, but thanks for the cool story.
Please continue with the hot takes on subjects you admittedly know nothing about.

so california grade schools are running just fine...nothing to fix there...a well oiled machine...love is in the air
don't...don't don't don't don't

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #339 on: September 10, 2019, 01:00:55 PM »
Did you read what the legislation does, or are you simply taking Cheeks' word for it?

First, this law has already existed for four years  kids up to 3rd grade, without apocalyptic consequences. This law only extends it through eighth grade.

Second, it does not prevent teachers from removing disruptive or defiant kids from class. It does not mean "no consequences." It just requires districts to do something other than keeping young kids - again, we're talking about grade schoolers here - home from school.  It changes nothing for high school kids.

Third, this has been the policy in the LA district since 2013, again, without  apocalyptic consequences. In fact, graduations have gone up ... though I'm not sure there's a proven causation there.

Fourth, this had the endorsement of state school administrator and parent-teacher organizations. The state teacher's union took no official stance.
So once again you are saying that Chicos is ignorant of the content of the links he himself posts?  Surprising.

And rocket happily gulped it down without bothering to learn anything about it? Doubly surprising
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 01:03:25 PM by TSmith34 »
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #340 on: September 10, 2019, 01:11:07 PM »
I was explaining my frame of reference.  Please continue knowing everything about everything.  I bow down befor your superior knowledge. Master.

God bless America.

Happy to help.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #341 on: September 10, 2019, 04:20:23 PM »
Did you read what the legislation does, or are you simply taking Cheeks' word for it?

First, this law has already existed for four years  kids up to 3rd grade, without apocalyptic consequences. This law only extends it through eighth grade.

Second, it does not prevent teachers from removing disruptive or defiant kids from class. It does not mean "no consequences." It just requires districts to do something other than keeping young kids - again, we're talking about grade schoolers here - home from school.  It changes nothing for high school kids.

Third, this has been the policy in the LA district since 2013, again, without  apocalyptic consequences. In fact, graduations have gone up ... though I'm not sure there's a proven causation there.

Fourth, this had the endorsement of state school administrator and parent-teacher organizations. The state teacher's union took no official stance.


1. so kids up through 8th grade are just harmless little dickens

2. so what does it do?  timeouts?  stand in the corner with your nose on a spot on the chalkboard?  write, i will stop giving mary and jack hinder-binders 1000 gazillion times

3. oh good, graduations are up and behavior is getting worse-super

4. sigh of relief the state admin expert, parent/teacher org and the kicker-teacher union loves it!  should have lead with #4 pakman-makes me feel so much better that we aren't spanking the kids again
don't...don't don't don't don't

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #342 on: September 10, 2019, 05:54:36 PM »

1. so kids up through 8th grade are just harmless little dickens

2. so what does it do?  timeouts?  stand in the corner with your nose on a spot on the chalkboard?  write, i will stop giving mary and jack hinder-binders 1000 gazillion times

3. oh good, graduations are up and behavior is getting worse-super

4. sigh of relief the state admin expert, parent/teacher org and the kicker-teacher union loves it!  should have lead with #4 pakman-makes me feel so much better that we aren't spanking the kids again

Why not actually read about what's happening before melting down over it?

Lennys Tap

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #343 on: September 10, 2019, 06:07:49 PM »
Suspensions always have been, and continue to be bad forms of punishment. Kids that don't really want to be in school, being punished by being removed from school.

It's like punishing a person for eating junk food, by only letting them have cake for dinner.

The students are still being punished for creating disturbances, they are now just a more useful form of punishment.

Forgetful,

Respectfully disagree. Removing chronically disruptive students from the classroom has several benefits. Teachers can teach and students can learn in at least a relatively peaceful environment. Other potential disruptors may be deterred when they see the consequences.

Re your junk food analogy, I think it's more like letting a child who wants to eat junk food (and who is allowed to by his parents) to eat junk food but not allow him or her to run the cafeteria.


Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #344 on: September 10, 2019, 06:11:16 PM »
Forgetful,

Respectfully disagree. Removing chronically disruptive students from the classroom has several benefits. Teachers can teach and students can learn in at least a relatively peaceful environment. Other potential disruptors may be deterred when they see the consequences.

This is true, but nothing about this California law prevents the removal of disruptive students from the classroom.


Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #345 on: September 10, 2019, 06:35:19 PM »
Did you read what the legislation does, or are you simply taking Cheeks' word for it?

First, this law has already existed for four years  kids up to 3rd grade, without apocalyptic consequences. This law only extends it through eighth grade.

Second, it does not prevent teachers from removing disruptive or defiant kids from class. It does not mean "no consequences." It just requires districts to do something other than keeping young kids - again, we're talking about grade schoolers here - home from school.  It changes nothing for high school kids.

Third, this has been the policy in the LA district since 2013, again, without  apocalyptic consequences. In fact, graduations have gone up ... though I'm not sure there's a proven causation there.

Fourth, this had the endorsement of state school administrator and parent-teacher organizations. The state teacher's union took no official stance.

Lol.  Kids below 3rd grade are not ones that cause problems of talking back.  The teachers union in this state is so far up Newsome’s ass and vice versa they scrub each other’s backs.  The fact they gave no stance should be an be an eye opener.  Usually they finish each other’s sentences. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #346 on: September 10, 2019, 06:36:26 PM »
I didnt read the legislation, no.  Thank you for your concern to set the record straight with bullet points

Madison schools have gone to a somewhat similar policy of not disciplining kids and the high schools are disasters.  No accountability for kids, paperwork nightmares for the teachers, violence in the classrooms, and the rowdy few are ruining things for the rest of the students.

God bless America.

Yup.  Nothing like teaching lack of accountability when they are young....get them started on the right foot.

And God Bless America.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

rocket surgeon

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #347 on: September 10, 2019, 07:01:28 PM »
Lol.  Kids below 3rd grade are not ones that cause problems of talking back.  The teachers union in this state is so far up Newsome’s ass and vice versa they scrub each other’s backs.  The fact they gave no stance should be an be an eye opener.  Usually they finish each other’s sentences.

exactly my sentiments cheeko.  there are so many ways the education people can play this.  first, they sound so level headed and reasoned.  you know, the dr spock approach to teaching.  second, the school systems get paid per body in the chairs.  third, they have their scapegoat when schmit hits the fan-but but but our hands are tied and we have to take all these kids that the private schools don't have to wa wa wa wa

     big reasons why private schools are more successful from an educational standpoint.  still wonder why "they" don't want choice schools even though their constituents have been screamin for them?
don't...don't don't don't don't

Lennys Tap

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #348 on: September 10, 2019, 07:13:54 PM »
Did you read what the legislation does, or are you simply taking Cheeks' word for it?


The only thing I saw on this was the article Chico linked.

Is there a link to the actual legislation available? If not, do you know what punishments are being substituted for suspensions? Any idea why Gov Brown vetoed this legislation twice? He doesn't impress me as being a hard liner.

Pakuni

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Re: Well that was a waste
« Reply #349 on: September 10, 2019, 07:59:28 PM »
The only thing I saw on this was the article Chico linked.

Is there a link to the actual legislation available? If not, do you know what punishments are being substituted for suspensions? Any idea why Gov Brown vetoed this legislation twice? He doesn't impress me as being a hard liner.

Link:
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200SB419

Contrary to how it's been described here, the bill does not prohibit suspensions, removals or other disciplinary consequences. It prohibits out-of-school suspensions.
I'd like to think most reasonable people can agree that an 11-year-old with behavioral issues is better off getting whatever help he/she needs from professionals in a structured environment than sitting at home playing Call of Duty and falling further behind on school work.

https://edsource.org/2019/california-to-ban-pushing-students-out-of-school-for-disruptive-behavior/617326