Well that was a waste

[MU82]

So when members of a community express disgust and loathing for how they are portrayed in cinema is it still acceptable to laud the movie The Searchers as great art?

Natives, actually white people in ochre grease paint, are depicted as immoral, bloodthirsty savages lacking sophistication, depth, or dignity.

Isn't this racially offensive?

Respectfully, Crash, I do not see how this has anything to do with my real-life example.

[Pakuni]

I don't believe this to be true...otherwise we have no hope as a society to become more tolerant (which we have)

I'm not seeing the correlation between feelings and becoming more tolerant.
When I say feelings, I mean things like anger, joy, sadness, fear, anxiety, attraction. These feelings come from out lizard brains, occurring outside the realm of our conscious thought. We can't stop them from happening. We can only learn to better control them and how they affect us.

[Jon]

Respectfully, Crash, I do not see how this has anything to do with my real-life example.

It does, Mike.

If your FIL makes a comment about "coloreds", and if the "colored person" takes offense, is it not, at a minimum, racially insensitive? Even if that is not what your FIL intended?

In the same way, The Searchers portrays Native Americans in the most despicable manner. Discerning leaders from Indian Country have expressed outrage over that movie in particular, and the broader catalog of Hollywood inventory in general.

Does that not make it offensive?

The GE Spirit and Letter program which governs employee conduct is very explicit: It's not what you intended but how it was received.

A black person taking offense at the term colored person and Native Americans expressing outrage over The Searchers are the same.

Take a stand, Mike. Please.

[Pakuni]

It does, Mike.

If your FIL makes a comment about "coloreds", and if the "colored person" takes offense, is it not, at a minimum, racially insensitive? Even if that is not what your FIL intended?

In the same way, The Searchers portrays Native Americans in the most despicable manner. Discerning leaders from Indian Country have expressed outrage over that movie in particular, and the broader catalog of Hollywood inventory in general.

Does that not make it offensive?

The GE Spirit and Letter program which governs employee conduct is very explicit: It's not what you intended but how it was received.

A black person taking offense at the term colored person and Native Americans expressing outrage over The Searchers are the same.

Take a stand, Mike. Please.

Can art be great and also offensive, or does the latter inherently negate the former?

[rocket surgeon]

i think what frenn might be alluding to is, you know how certain words used to be the norm or ok, but over time, some chose to label them as offensive.  so without getting into specifics because i think most here know what i am talking about.  anyway, how did someone become offended by said word when it has been ot there as such for so long?  suddenly, to take one of the least offensive terms for example,  handicapped.  today, we have all these fill in the blank "disabilities".  you don't hear the word midget much anymore and so on.

  so what changed?  i seriously would like to know because i never sat here thinking up all these present day terms, or whatever and go, ya know what?  the word midget is offensive to me and start a campaign to make it offensive and come up with alternatives that essentially become mandated

[The Sultan]

i think what frenn might be alluding to is, you know how certain words used to be the norm or ok, but over time, some chose to label them as offensive.  so without getting into specifics because i think most here know what i am talking about.  anyway, how did someone become offended by said word when it has been ot there as such for so long?  suddenly, to take one of the least offensive terms for example,  handicapped.  today, we have all these fill in the blank "disabilities".  you don't hear the word midget much anymore and so on.

  so what changed?  i seriously would like to know because i never sat here thinking up all these present day terms, or whatever and go, ya know what?  the word midget is offensive to me and start a campaign to make it offensive and come up with alternatives that essentially become mandated

Words evovle.  It's really no big deal.

[Pakuni]

i think what frenn might be alluding to is, you know how certain words used to be the norm or ok, but over time, some chose to label them as offensive.  so without getting into specifics because i think most here know what i am talking about.  anyway, how did someone become offended by said word when it has been ot there as such for so long?  suddenly, to take one of the least offensive terms for example,  handicapped.  today, we have all these fill in the blank "disabilities".  you don't hear the word midget much anymore and so on.

  so what changed?  i seriously would like to know because i never sat here thinking up all these present day terms, or whatever and go, ya know what?  the word midget is offensive to me and start a campaign to make it offensive and come up with alternatives that essentially become mandated

Language evolves, as do societal norms.
Welcome to civilization.

[Lennys Tap]

Language evolves, as do societal norms.
Welcome to civilization.

So (for example) did people decide (change their minds) that "handicapped" was offensive or did our cumulative lizard brains make that determination? If we have no control over our feelings it would have to be the latter.

[Pakuni]

So (for example) did people decide (change their minds) that "handicapped" was offensive or did our cumulative lizard brains make that determination? If we have no control over our feelings it would have to be the latter.

Are you conflating one's feelings with one's opinions? (Edit: Perhaps beliefs is a better word here than opinions).
If not, I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here.
Changing one's mind over whether a term is offensive is not a "feeling," at least not in the way I clearly defined it.

[Cheeks]

If a Native American isn't offended by the term Redskin, that's fine.  OTOH, you don't have to be Native American to be offended by the term Redskin.

Very true, but don't use the excuse that it should be stopped because Native American are offended, when they aren't.  The virtue signaling is out of control.

We are at the point now if someone says God Bless America here, it requires removal as someone is offended.  All it takes is one now. 

[The Sultan]

Very true, but don't use the excuse that it should be stopped because Native American are offended, when they aren't.   

Native Americans aren't a homogenous group where everyone has the same beliefs.  Some are offended.  Some are not. 

[Cheeks]

Can art be great and also offensive, or does the latter inherently negate the former?

Define art.   Crucifix in a jar of urine?  German swastika in a portrait?  Painted picture of Mutilated white kids?  Painted picture of mutilated elderly minorities?  What if the creators say it is art, is that all that matters?  They are the arbiters?

I only ask because somewhere is this hidden cabal of elitists that are deciding what is and isn't, and it seems to change daily....is there a website so we can all program ourselves to understand the latest and why? 

[jesmu84]

It does, Mike.

If your FIL makes a comment about "coloreds", and if the "colored person" takes offense, is it not, at a minimum, racially insensitive? Even if that is not what your FIL intended?

In the same way, The Searchers portrays Native Americans in the most despicable manner. Discerning leaders from Indian Country have expressed outrage over that movie in particular, and the broader catalog of Hollywood inventory in general.

Does that not make it offensive?

The GE Spirit and Letter program which governs employee conduct is very explicit: It's not what you intended but how it was received.

A black person taking offense at the term colored person and Native Americans expressing outrage over The Searchers are the same.

Take a stand, Mike. Please.

Is this what you believe and how you live your life?

[rocket surgeon]

Are you conflating one's feelings with one's opinions?
If not, I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here.
Changing one's mind over whether a term is offensive is not a "feeling," at least not in the way I clearly defined it.

i might be able to help here-when did someone's FEELINGS become hurt and/or when did "they" determine the word "handicapped" had out lived it's usefulness and we evolved when they heard the term handicapped?  opinions?  i don't think it has anything to do with an opinion though.

welcome to civilization?  what the f*** does that have to do with anything?  unforced error pak man.  the condescending schit doesn't help the conversation. 

[The Sultan]

i might be able to help here-when did someone's FEELINGS become hurt and/or when did "they" determine the word "handicapped" had out lived it's usefulness and we evolved when they heard the term handicapped?  opinions?  i don't think it has anything to do with an opinion though.

welcome to civilization?  what the f*** does that have to do with anything?  unforced error pak man.  the condescending schit doesn't help the conversation. 

What usually happens:

1.  A word is used to describe someone
2.  For a variety of reasons, such as being used as an insult or being considered an incomplete definition, people propose a new word or phrase.
3.  That word/phrase is adapted and you go back to #1.

It's why we have gone from "imbecile" to "retarded" to "person with developmental disabilities." 

I don't understand why this is a problem.

[Pakuni]

Define art.   Crucifix in a jar of urine?  German swastika in a portrait?  Painted picture of Mutilated white kids?  Painted picture of mutilated elderly minorities?  What if the creators say it is art, is that all that matters?  They are the arbiters?

I only ask because somewhere is this hidden cabal of elitists that are deciding what is and isn't, and it seems to change daily....is there a website so we can all program ourselves to understand the latest and why?

I like this definition:
"The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power."

Pretty sure it wasn't a hidden cabal of elitists who tried to shut down the Mapplethorpe exhibit, have banned classic books from schools, protested "The Last Temptation of Christ" or issued a fatwa for Salman Rushdie.

[Cheeks]

Native Americans aren't a homogenous group where everyone has the same beliefs.  Some are offended.  Some are not.

Fair, but not really the point.  All it takes is one.  I assume we are all Americans on this message board, but placing God Bless America in a signature was a problem.  Literally.  Maybe it was an atheist upset.  Maybe it was someone just not liking America.  Who knows, but all it takes is one now.

[The Sultan]

Fair, but not really the point.  All it takes is one. 

No not really.  If all it takes is one, the Washington Redskins would have changed their name by now.  But even a critical mass of people haven't been able to compel the name to change.

[MU82]

It does, Mike.

If your FIL makes a comment about "coloreds", and if the "colored person" takes offense, is it not, at a minimum, racially insensitive? Even if that is not what your FIL intended?

In the same way, The Searchers portrays Native Americans in the most despicable manner. Discerning leaders from Indian Country have expressed outrage over that movie in particular, and the broader catalog of Hollywood inventory in general.

Does that not make it offensive?

The GE Spirit and Letter program which governs employee conduct is very explicit: It's not what you intended but how it was received.

A black person taking offense at the term colored person and Native Americans expressing outrage over The Searchers are the same.

Take a stand, Mike. Please.

Well, I haven't seen The Searchers. Unlike some here (not saying you), I try not to comment on things I don't know enough about.

But sure, it would be hard to blame a person of a given race for being offended by an old movie that expresses what today is deemed racist.

I still don't think your example is the same as a real person referring to another real person a racially-offensive term in today's real world, but whatevs.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I'm not seeing the correlation between feelings and becoming more tolerant.
When I say feelings, I mean things like anger, joy, sadness, fear, anxiety, attraction. These feelings come from out lizard brains, occurring outside the realm of our conscious thought. We can't stop them from happening. We can only learn to better control them and how they affect us.

Due to ignorance, lack of exposure or other you can have a feeling when you hear a word or are around people and that can in fact change in life.  If you choose to immerse yourself in understanding, gain more exposure or grow as a human you can change the way you feel about being around different people or situations.  If having a better understanding of how certain words impact someone else, you can change your feelings about certain words. 

My point is there is a way to change your feeling about or reactions to anything.  That of course can be a good thing or a bad thing. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

i think what frenn might be alluding to is, you know how certain words used to be the norm or ok, but over time, some chose to label them as offensive.

I am not referring to this.

[TheyWereCones]

Anger is a choice.  Being offended is a choice.  Do I really have to give examples?

[brewcity77]

i think what frenn might be alluding to is, you know how certain words used to be the norm or ok, but over time, some chose to label them as offensive.

The term "Jay" used to be an insulting term meaning someone was an idiot or feeble-minded. It's where the term "Jaywalking" came from. Now no one would care if they were called a Jay or even know that etymology. You'd just assume maybe they were Creighton fans. That's just the nature of language, and part of being a functioning member of society is adapting to those changes.

[Pakuni]

Anger is a choice.  Being offended is a choice.  Do I really have to give examples?

Anger isn't a choice. It's the result of eons of evolutionary programming and occurs outside your conscious mind.
How you respond to or act upon your anger is a choice, but the emotion itself isn't.
Source: Science.

[TheyWereCones]

Anger isn't a choice. It's the result of eons of evolutionary programming and occurs outside your conscious mind.
How you respond to or act upon your anger is a choice, but the emotion itself isn't.
Source: Science.

I'm sure eons of evolutionary programming is why Marquette fans get angry when we lose to Wisconsin.