New NCAA policy regarding agents & "testing the waters"

[forgetful]

It's not a bad idea to require a prospect to consult with an agent that is somehow qualified.  It's just that having a certification process that is different than the one the NBPA uses is non-sensical.  Rich Paul is one of the top agents in the NBA right now.  Yet he cannot advise a student athlete of their draft status because he doesn't have a college degree.  That makes no sense, and just incentiviizes behavior to undermine the rules. 

The NCAA yet again managed to f*ck up a process that should be fairly easy and straight-forward.

Would you prefer the NBPA one, where everything is basically the same, except they have a completely arbitrary caveat where at their sole discretion they can violate the 4-year degree rule.

Not to mention Rich Paul, runs and is part of Klutch Sports, an agency. He can simply hire other agents to work at his agency that do meet that rule and then advise them anyways. You know, kind of like law firms, and just about every other certified profession, where the young guys do grunt work to sign clients to their agency.

Seriously, the people attacking the NCAA here are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, simply because they don't like the NCAA and want athletes paid.

[wadesworld]

Would you prefer the NBPA one, where everything is basically the same, except they have a completely arbitrary caveat where at their sole discretion they can violate the 4-year degree rule.

Not to mention Rich Paul, runs and is part of Klutch Sports, an agency. He can simply hire other agents to work at his agency that do meet that rule and then advise them anyways. You know, kind of like law firms, and just about every other certified profession, where the young guys do grunt work to sign clients to their agency.

Seriously, the people attacking the NCAA here are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, simply because they don't like the NCAA and want athletes paid.

I don't want NCAA athletes to get paid.

This is a very dumb rule.

[Pakuni]

Seriously, the people attacking the NCAA here are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, simply because they don't like the NCAA and want athletes paid.

Or maybe we see this as yet another clumsy attempt by the NCAA to consolidate power and authority over revenue-producing sports (read: revenue producing athletes). And if you're a fan of the college game, you should be opposed to this, because ultimately it threatens to drive more of the top players overseas or into MarJon Beauchamp/Darius Bazely situations.

Could you perhaps explain why the NCAA needs different agent and eligibility rules for basketball players than the ones it has hockey and baseball players? Is there something inherently different about basketball players that I  don't understand?
(Note: "The NCAA can make whatever rules it wants" is not an answer to this question.)

[The Sultan]

Would you prefer the NBPA one, where everything is basically the same, except they have a completely arbitrary caveat where at their sole discretion they can violate the 4-year degree rule.

Not to mention Rich Paul, runs and is part of Klutch Sports, an agency. He can simply hire other agents to work at his agency that do meet that rule and then advise them anyways. You know, kind of like law firms, and just about every other certified profession, where the young guys do grunt work to sign clients to their agency.

Seriously, the people attacking the NCAA here are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, simply because they don't like the NCAA and want athletes paid.

I always prefer rules that aren't absolute. So if the NBPA has a reason to not require a bachelor's degree for a particular reason, I trust their process.

[brewcity77]

The Rice Commission is a example of making as little change as possible, while basically maintaining the status quo.  It was a disaster.

If her name wasn't attached, I think they might have scrapped the entire thing by now. It was a disaster, but because they put such a high profile person in charge, they seem to believe they have to try to make it work.

[MU82]

Or maybe we see this as yet another clumsy attempt by the NCAA to consolidate power and authority over revenue-producing sports (read: revenue producing athletes). And if you're a fan of the college game, you should be opposed to this, because ultimately it threatens to drive more of the top players overseas or into MarJon Beauchamp/Darius Bazely situations.

Could you perhaps explain why the NCAA needs different agent and eligibility rules for basketball players than the ones it has hockey and baseball players? Is there something inherently different about basketball players that I  don't understand?
(Note: "The NCAA can make whatever rules it wants" is not an answer to this question.)

Perfectly stated.

If her name wasn't attached, I think they might have scrapped the entire thing by now. It was a disaster, but because they put such a high profile person in charge, they seem to believe they have to try to make it work.

Agreed.

[WhiteTrash]

Seriously, the people attacking the NCAA here are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, simply because they don't like the NCAA and want athletes paid.

"Mountain out of a mole hill"? Are you crazy? This rule will effect possibly in excess of 10 people out of the 400,000,000 plus people in the US. And to add salt to the wound, most of them are in the "1%" or soon will be.

Your disregard for social injustice is disgusting.

[forgetful]

Or maybe we see this as yet another clumsy attempt by the NCAA to consolidate power and authority over revenue-producing sports (read: revenue producing athletes). And if you're a fan of the college game, you should be opposed to this, because ultimately it threatens to drive more of the top players overseas or into MarJon Beauchamp/Darius Bazely situations.

Could you perhaps explain why the NCAA needs different agent and eligibility rules for basketball players than the ones it has hockey and baseball players? Is there something inherently different about basketball players that I  don't understand?
(Note: "The NCAA can make whatever rules it wants" is not an answer to this question.)

Except your first premise has no groundings in objective reality.

The latter is easy. Maybe it is because they were trying to actually craft a rule that benefits and protects student athletes.

The rule you are talking about for baseball applies only to high schoolers. Even then, they can only hire an advisor, and have to pay for all services and expenses out of their own pocket. Once they actually enroll in college they are not eligible to be drafted until they have completed their junior year. Then, they are not allowed to sign with an agent. They can get an advisor, that they have to pay, they can receive no compensation, if they want to retain eligibility for their senior year. Some aspects of the differences in draft are because of the MLB not requiring an athlete to "affirmatively state a desire to be in the draft," so technically they could be drafted without ever asking to be...kind of a big difference.

The Basketball rule, allows any student regardless of age (not just Juniors and Seniors) to get professional advice. More importantly, they can accept compensation, do not have to pay the advisor/agent for agent services, and still retain the ability to be eligible. All of these are exceptionally beneficial to the student-athlete, and vastly more beneficial to them than the Baseball Agent rules. The only factor that anyone can twist to the negative (and people here are doing so), is the requirements for the "AGENT" not the athlete. Those rule, quite clearly, are to benefit the athlete, by removing predatory agents that will fiash money at the athletes, and potentially ruin their college career, by looking out for their own selfish interests.

Honestly, I cannot see how anyone can rationally look at this as anything but a major win, for the athlete.

And I am a fan of the game, and encourage any player that thinks their long term career is better served by taking the Beauchamp/Bazley route. They should do what is best for them. That doesn't mean that their decisions should be banned from any consequences. 

[NYWarrior]

good perspective //https://twitter.com/JimMcIlvaine/status/1159451029244698626

[Pakuni]

Except your first premise has no groundings in objective reality.
The latter is easy. Maybe it is because they were trying to actually craft a rule that benefits and protects student athletes.

Is that you, Mr. Emmert?
You can't seriously mean either of these things. And if you're naive enough to believe the NCAA acts to benefit and protect student athletes, I'm not sure there's any point in continuing this discussion.

As for the rest, I'll just note that your recitation of the different rules wholly fails to answer why different rules are needed.
Again, what's the difference between basketball players and hockey/baseball players that requires a different set of rules?
You're a smart person. I'm sure you can figure it out. (Hint: There's an old saying about what you should follow).

[forgetful]

I don't want NCAA athletes to get paid.

This is a very dumb rule.

The rule is to protect athletes from predatory agents, like what happened with Zion Williamson this year. He signed with a predatory agency, and faced a $100M lawsuit. Honestly, he should lose this lawsuit, but likely will win because of a North Carolina agent law that would protect the athlete.

The NCAA law is expressly designed to limit predatory practices, that even the best, and best advised athletes can fall victim to.

[Pakuni]

good perspective //https://twitter.com/JimMcIlvaine/status/1159451029244698626

Someone should inform Jim that the vast majority - if not all - of those shady agents had college degrees.
Laughable that some seem to think a college degree is some sort of shield against unethical behavior.
Alan Eagleson and Tank Black, probably the most notorious sports agents of all time, both had college degrees. Eagleson also had a law degree.

[forgetful]

Is that you, Mr. Emmert?
You can't seriously mean either of these things. And if you're naive enough to believe the NCAA acts to benefit and protect student athletes, I'm not sure there's any point in continuing this discussion.

As for the rest, I'll just note that your recitation of the different rules wholly fails to answer why different rules are needed.
Again, what's the difference between basketball players and hockey/baseball players that requires a different set of rules?
You're a smart person. I'm sure you can figure it out. (Hint: There's an old saying about what you should follow).

Pakuni, you are better than the bolded. That is essentially saying that you are biased against the NCAA, so you will view any NCAA action in the worst light possible. That isn't a rational approach to analyzing anything.

You are mis-examining the latter. You are assuming the difference has to be in the "basketball players and hockey/baseball players," rather the difference can be, and is in this case, in the rules and operations of MLB and the NBA.

MLB does not have an "affirmative consent" rule for being in the draft, meaning you can be in the draft pool without wanting to be. That means athletes will need to have an avenue of maintaining eligibility if drafted without any action on their own. Also, it leads to advisory issues if you are drafted in determining what is best for you.

The NBA has an "affirmative consent" rule in regards to the draft. That means you have to declare and affirmatively indicate your desire to remain in the draft to be draft eligible. That is a massive difference. The agent rules now in place go to great lengths to provide a platform of advice and advocacy that is beneficial to the athlete. Is it perfect? No, because people aren't perfect, but to assign an ulterior motive to the NCAA is without evidence.

Both sets of rules are crafted towards the professional league rules/regulations (which differ). They are also designed to benefit the athletes. The new basketball rule, is far more beneficial to the athlete than any other NCAA agent rules...yet they are still being vilified for it.

[wadesworld]

I find it laughable that the NCAA pretends that a 4 year degree is a way to prevent shady people from taking advantage of these student athletes.  Because NCAA athletics are so clean!  As we know because Chicos points it out at every chance, the NCAA requires its employees to have 4 year degrees, almost every school requires their coaches to have 4 year degrees, etc.  Thank goodness corruption could not possibly get into NCAA athletics because everyone is educated!

Not to mention, in order to leave school without your degree and become a millionaire you must consult with someone who does have a degree to save you.  Because guys like Rich Paul aren't smart enough to do any good for his clients...

[forgetful]

I find it laughable that the NCAA pretends that a 4 year degree is a way to prevent shady people from taking advantage of these student athletes.  Because NCAA athletics are so clean!  As we know because Chicos points it out at every chance, the NCAA requires its employees to have 4 year degrees, almost every school requires their coaches to have 4 year degrees, etc.  Thank goodness corruption could not possibly get into NCAA athletics because everyone is educated!

Not to mention, in order to leave school without your degree and become a millionaire you must consult with someone who does have a degree to save you.  Because guys like Rich Paul aren't smart enough to do any good for his clients...

I agree with your assessment that it is laughable to think that having a 4-year degree prevents shady actors.

That doesn't mean that the NCAA wasn't trying to act in the best interest of the athletes. No set of rule will ever be perfect in their design.

Also, the combined rules of the NBPA and NCAA, makes it really hard for "fly-by-night" predatory agents to take advantage of athletes. I think it is specifically those that the NCAA is targeting. Rich Paul, who is a unique outlier, was essentially hit in the crossfire.

[WhiteTrash]

good perspective //https://twitter.com/JimMcIlvaine/status/1159451029244698626

What the hell does Jim know about the NCAA, college basketball, agents and getting drafted? Garbage.

I trust internet posters and Op-ed pieces. The NCAA is a bunch of idiots and racists who hate student athletes. Anyone who thinks the college presidents in the NCAA are smart enough to spell C-A-T is an NCAA apologist.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison and Michael Dell need not apply.  And Steve Jobs if he were still alive.

[wadesworld]

What the hell does Jim know about the NCAA, college basketball, agents and getting drafted? Garbage.

I trust internet posters and Op-ed pieces. The NCAA is a bunch of idiots and racists who hate student athletes. Anyone who thinks the college presidents in the NCAA are smart enough to spell C-A-T is an NCAA apologist.

You are literally the only person who has brought up race. And now you've done it twice. 🤔  There is nothing better in an argument than the person who is screaming about how disgusting it is that racism is being brought into the discussion...when literally nobody has said a word about racism or race.

Not to mention you're right.  Jim speaks for all student athletes.  Because nobody who has played in the NCAA and NBA in the last decade has spoken out about this at all. 🙄

[forgetful]

Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison and Michael Dell need not apply.  And Steve Jobs if he were still alive.

None of these people could be either, lawyers, doctors, CPAs, architects, or a vast number of professions that have certification rules/regulations dictating who is qualified to serve in those professions either.

[WhiteTrash]

Someone should inform Jim that the vast majority - if not all - of those shady agents had college degrees.
Laughable that some seem to think a college degree is some sort of shield against unethical behavior.

FACT: 100% of people guilty of medical malpractice have medical degrees.

I'll take my chances on getting my medical care from someone with a degree and support the educational requirements to practice medicine. 

Just because there are crooks and scumbags in all walks of life; that's no reason to eliminate standards. 

[The Sultan]

"Mountain out of a mole hill"? Are you crazy? This rule will effect possibly in excess of 10 people out of the 400,000,000 plus people in the US. And to add salt to the wound, most of them are in the "1%" or soon will be.

Your disregard for social injustice is disgusting.

This isn't a social justice issue so nice try.

It's the continued defense of the amateurism model which is foolish and outdated.

[Dr. Blackheart]

None of these people could be either, lawyers, doctors, CPAs, architects, or a vast number of professions that have certification rules/regulations dictating who is qualified to serve in those professions either.

And neither can certified agents in the professional field who don't have bachelors.  It's like the NCAA saying a bagel is an acceptable benefit but cream cheese isn't.  Stupid

[The Sultan]

None of these people could be either, lawyers, doctors, CPAs, architects, or a vast number of professions that have certification rules/regulations dictating who is qualified to serve in those professions either.

There are exceptions to the above though. The University of Michigan doesn't require a bachelors degree to attend law school and the state bar doesn't require one either. 

[Pakuni]

Pakuni, you are better than the bolded. That is essentially saying that you are biased against the NCAA, so you will view any NCAA action in the worst light possible. That isn't a rational approach to analyzing anything.

No, what it is saying is that the NCAA exists only to serve the interests of its member institutions, not its labor force. Its labor force is just a means to its end, i.e. enriching its members. I make no value judgements about that. It is what it is. The NCAA is a business like any other.
I just find it truly laughable that some wish to portray the NCAA not as a business, but as some sort of benevolent high-minded institution that cares about and wants to protect its labor and provide them with an education. That narrative is not only naive, but provably false. If you want, I'll list off a dozen ways the NCAA shows little regard for the well-being and academic success of its labor force (like, say, Tuesday and Wednesday night football games during mid-terms).

That is my approach to analyzing anything the NCAA does ... that it, like any other business entity, will act in its own interests. Any other analysis ignores the reality of what the NCAA is and why it exists.

And since you don't want to say it, I will. The NCAA has different rules for basketball players because NCAA members are enriched through the labors of its basketball players. And it is therefore in the NCAA's interest to exert as much influence and control as it can over its basketball players.

[Pakuni]

None of these people could be either, lawyers, doctors, CPAs, architects, or a vast number of professions that have certification rules/regulations dictating who is qualified to serve in those professions either.

But the NCAA isn't requiring agents to have a degree specifically tailored to serving as a sports agent, or anything close to it.
According to the NCAA, a person with a degree in English lit or women's studies is more qualified to serve as a player agent than Rich Paul.
How does that make sense to you?