Chasing Ghosts: DePaul's sad journey from name brand to also-ran

[Marcus92]

Part of ESPN's ongoing series on programs that have "faced the challenge of moving on from a single historically revered coach":

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27010909/depaul-sad-journey-name-brand-ran

[Galway Eagle]

Have to imagine that if NCST is on there we likely will be as well.

[Avenue Commons]

Lunardi: The best "comp" for DePaul is Marquette (not Notre Dame). They are both urban, basketball-only schools formed by a lifelong legend (Ray Meyer, Al McGuire). But Marquette moved more quickly into the modern era in terms of conference affiliation, facilities, coaching profile and game experience. And even with all that, the ride was bumpy. Where are the Golden Eagles today without Dwyane Wade? Or if situated in a larger city or without a venue that's a short ride (or ambitious walk) from campus? Possibly not too far off the current state of affairs at DePaul. You want to blame all that on a coach or athletic director, go ahead, but it seems like a much bigger set of challenges to me.

[Herman Cain]

I saw that glib comment by Lunardi. The article was about coaches that followed legends.He failed to recognize the following :
1. All of the MU coaches post Al have had very good winning percentages , with the exception of the brief reign of Dukiet. So it was more than a D Wade thing.
2. MU fan base is highly loyal and large.  11,000 plus season tickets. So we have both student support and alumni and even community support.
3. Prior to Al MU had a respectable basketball history dating from the mid 40s.
4. Al's star shined much brighter than Ray Meyers ever did. There are still many people today who recognize Al's accomplishments as coach and remember him as an announcer.
5. MU has had good quality management in the athletic department post Al.  DePaul has been run by incompetents.

[dgies9156]

Part of ESPN's ongoing series on programs that have "faced the challenge of moving on from a single historically revered coach":

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27010909/depaul-sad-journey-name-brand-ran

DePaul's problems begin and end with three words -- Jean Lenti Ponsetto.

[Billy Hoyle]

DePaul's problems begin and end with three words -- Jean Lenti Ponsetto.

Actually, they began with Bill Bradshaw, who sabotaged Joey Meyer and DePaul's relationships with CPL schools. JLP took it to another level.

[79Warrior]

I saw that glib comment by Lunardi. The article was about coaches that followed legends.He failed to recognize the following :
1. All of the MU coaches post Al have had very good winning percentages , with the exception of the brief reign of Dukiet. So it was more than a D Wade thing.
2. MU fan base is highly loyal and large.  11,000 plus season tickets. So we have both student support and alumni and even community support.
3. Prior to Al MU had a respectable basketball history dating from the mid 40s.
4. Al's star shined much brighter than Ray Meyers ever did. There are still many people today who recognize Al's accomplishments as coach and remember him as an announcer.
5. MU has had good quality management in the athletic department post Al.  DePaul has been run by incompetents.

Ray Meyer was pretty big back in the day, don't kid yourself. He had a great run for a long time at DePaul.

[The Sultan]

I saw that glib comment by Lunardi. The article was about coaches that followed legends.He failed to recognize the following :
1. All of the MU coaches post Al have had very good winning percentages , with the exception of the brief reign of Dukiet. So it was more than a D Wade thing.
2. MU fan base is highly loyal and large.  11,000 plus season tickets. So we have both student support and alumni and even community support.
3. Prior to Al MU had a respectable basketball history dating from the mid 40s.
4. Al's star shined much brighter than Ray Meyers ever did. There are still many people today who recognize Al's accomplishments as coach and remember him as an announcer.
5. MU has had good quality management in the athletic department post Al.  DePaul has been run by incompetents.

His point is that DePaul could have been like Marquette had they made the right moves.

[THRILLHO]

DePaul's problems begin and end with three words -- Jean Lenti Ponsetto.

It always comes back to her, but despite sustained bad MBB performance she hasn't been fired. So it seems like at this point people would start aiming their ire a little higher. And maybe also reflect on why they are so focused on her.

[The Sultan]

It always comes back to her, but despite sustained bad MBB performance she hasn't been fired. So it seems like at this point people would start aiming their ire a little higher. And maybe also reflect on why they are so focused on her.

Yeah I mean she's probably doing what the leadership wants considering she's been around so long.

[Galway Eagle]

I saw that glib comment by Lunardi. The article was about coaches that followed legends.He failed to recognize the following :
1. All of the MU coaches post Al have had very good winning percentages , with the exception of the brief reign of Dukiet. So it was more than a D Wade thing.
2. MU fan base is highly loyal and large.  11,000 plus season tickets. So we have both student support and alumni and even community support.
3. Prior to Al MU had a respectable basketball history dating from the mid 40s.
4. Al's star shined much brighter than Ray Meyers ever did. There are still many people today who recognize Al's accomplishments as coach and remember him as an announcer.
5. MU has had good quality management in the athletic department post Al.  DePaul has been run by incompetents.

1. You're in the fire Wojo camp and yet you admit he has a very good winning percentage?

2. Depaul had a highly loyal fan base for years. If you go back to the old attendance records they were a massive draw. We'd lose ours too with seasons like them.

3. MU had two winning seasons in the 40s 8-6 and 11-7. I believe you meant the mid 50s as the start of MU basketball

4 & 5 I Agree wholeheartedly.

[GooooMarquette]

Ray Meyer was pretty big back in the day, don't kid yourself. He had a great run for a long time at DePaul.

No debate from me - Ray was pretty big back then. But that's the key: Ray was "pretty big." Al was an icon.

Ray's pretty big got them two Final Fours and zero titles in 43 years. Al won more in 13 years at MU.

In addition to this significant difference, DePaul's biggest problem has been JLP. There was potential after Ray and Joey, but she squandered it with one bad decision after another. #sleepinggiant

[Loose Cannon]

Actually, they began with Bill Bradshaw, who sabotaged Joey Meyer and DePaul's relationships with CPL schools. JLP took it to another level.

PLUS TAX

[Goose]

Ray was pretty big for a few years, thanks to Al.

[brewcity77]

His point is that DePaul could have been like Marquette had they made the right moves.

While I see the similarities, I think Marquette does have some built in advantages DePaul does not. Access to a NBA arena not far from campus, less sports competition (no NHL team, no NFL team), less D1 competition in town & in the state. While I know DePaul has scoffed at following the "Marquette model" in the past, I'm not sure it would be as easy for them as just emulating the things we've done right.

[Herman Cain]

Part of ESPN's ongoing series on programs that have "faced the challenge of moving on from a single historically revered coach":

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27010909/depaul-sad-journey-name-brand-ran

I read the whole series of articles.  MU not on the list, but has performed better than all on the list with the exception of UNC.

[GooooMarquette]

While I see the similarities, I think Marquette does have some built in advantages DePaul does not. Access to a NBA arena not far from campus, less sports competition (no NHL team, no NFL team), less D1 competition in town & in the state. While I know DePaul has scoffed at following the "Marquette model" in the past, I'm not sure it would be as easy for them as just emulating the things we've done right.

DePaul had the opportunity to use the United Center rent free, and turned it down for a smaller arena further from campus. Granted, neither is as close to campus as the BC/FF to Marquette, but DePaul turned down a closer NBA arena for a more distant, lower profile venue. That's on JLP.

And while Milwaukee per se doesn't have an NFL team, the Packers are every bit as big a deal in Milwaukee (arguably even bigger) as the Bears are in Chicago. I recall MU games that coincided with Packer playoff games, and the BC was half empty...and many of the fans who did attend were watching the Packers in the concourse.

Yes, every situation is unique, but I don't think all of MU's "built in" advantages are as great as you think.

[rocket surgeon]

Ray was pretty big for a few years, thanks to Al.

yes, but ray also wasn't one to miss a meal though either

[Ellenson Guerrero]

DePaul had the opportunity to use the United Center rent free, and turned it down for a smaller arena further from campus. Granted, neither is as close to campus as the BC/FF to Marquette, but DePaul turned down a closer NBA arena for a more distant, lower profile venue. That's on JLP.

DePaul playing in the UC would have been laughable. They can't even fill half the seats in Wintrust. At least the thought of a home court advantage is at least plausible at Wintrust.

[muwarrior69]

While I see the similarities, I think Marquette does have some built in advantages DePaul does not. Access to a NBA arena not far from campus, less sports competition (no NHL team, no NFL team), less D1 competition in town & in the state. While I know DePaul has scoffed at following the "Marquette model" in the past, I'm not sure it would be as easy for them as just emulating the things we've done right.

During the Al years the Packers played 3 games every season at Milwaukee County stadium; not sure when that stopped however.

[brewcity77]

That stopped in 1994, which my first thought is "not that long ago" but then I do the math. 

[MU82]

DePaul playing in the UC would have been laughable. They can't even fill half the seats in Wintrust. At least the thought of a home court advantage is at least plausible at Wintrust.

This.

It has been said that DePaul either couldn't or wouldn't acquire land in Lincoln Park, but the obviously smart thing to have done would have been to acquire enough to build a nice 7,000-seat arena on campus. Then, if the program gets on solid footing again to where it is drawing lots of fans, they could play select games at the U.C.

That's the model of BEast teams such as St. John's, Nova and UConn.

[WarriorHal]

Ray was pretty big for a few years, thanks to Al.

Do you mean thanks to Al leaving MU? DePaul took off and began dominating Chicago recruiting as soon as McGuire retired from coaching.

[GooooMarquette]

DePaul playing in the UC would have been laughable. They can't even fill half the seats in Wintrust. At least the thought of a home court advantage is at least plausible at Wintrust.

I don't doubt that the UC would be mostly empty. But I was responding to brew's comment that MU has "natural advantages", and he listed playing in an NBA arena as one of them. So if simply playing in an NBA arena is an advantage, DePaul had the opportunity and turned it down.

The real truth is that playing in the BC/FF has been an advantage for MU because we have enough fans to turn them into real home courts, and thus use them as selling points for our program.

[MU82]

The Aguirre/Cummings years were before I got to Chicago, but I've been told by many who know that DePaul basketball was much bigger than the Bulls back then. Sold out the Horizon every game, and the place was rocking. It looked like a dynasty in the making, but Joey couldn't keep things going.

There was a mini-renaissance under Cheatin' Pat Kennedy in the late-90s/early-aughts, with Richardson, Simmons and Williams. Though sellouts were rare (perhaps because fans remained skeptical?), crowds were much larger and louder.

The above anecdotes provide the fuel to the whole "sleeping giant" narrative. And while we like to laugh at that, what if they are able to hire a dynamic coach who can turn things around? Like any other fan base, Chicagoans love winners. The Blackhawks couldn't get 6000 fannies into UC seats for a few years there; then they start winning big and the place is hockeytown again.