The Athletic: Marquette Preview

[brewcity77]

Good read from Brian Hamilton.

https://theathletic.com/1181126/#click=https://t.co/oUUMYyPHiQ

[MUfan12]

Two things stand out from what I thought was a really even-handed look at things-

On Symir-
"But will we see Torrence much, if at all, this winter? The inevitable playing time crunch creates a discussion for the coaching staff: Despite Torrence’s apparent comfort level, do they burn a year of his eligibility on minuscule minutes? Or is it wiser to effectively shift him back into the 2020 class, while he continues to progress during practices?"

You're gonna need a third ballhandler, and he's stronger with the ball than Dex/Greg/Sacar. I'll be very disappointed if they redshirt him.

On recruiting-
"Marquette has had its share of recruiting wins during Wojciechowski’s tenure. Appropriate levels of optimism followed each of those wins. The primary issue facing the program at the moment is that only one of those wins truly lasted, and that otherwise the wins were scarce or non-existent for two entire cycles, which has put a premium on player development in the extremely near term of this preseason as well as notching some fairly significant victories in the Class of 2020.

To review: Three top-100 players arrived in 2016: Howard, Bailey and Sam Hauser. Only one of them, Howard, hits the exacta of still being on the roster and producing in a significant way throughout his career. In the ensuing two seasons, one top-100 player signed, and Joey Hauser now resides in East Lansing, Mich. Only one of the four 2017 signees, John, has made inroads as a legitimate Big East player. If we’re to be brutally honest about it, there are mostly gaping holes where the talent accrued over two entire cycles should be."

He's absolutely right about this, and the transfers have helped paper the cracks. But these are the top-150 composite guys Woj has brought in-

Ellenson- 9
Cheatham- 75
Carter- 127
Heldt- 136
Bailey- 92
S. Hauser- 83
Markus- 68
Cain- 145
J. Hauser- 52
Torrence- 75

You can argue about Henry's impact, but the only two that were hits out of that group so far were Sam and Markus... and Sam ain't here.

[brewcity77]

I thought the recruiting comments were both accurate and fair. The lauded 2015 class saw only one player, Sacar, finish his eligibility. Wojo needs guys like Bailey, Cain, and Torrence to start delivering on the promise they bring. Long term success is typically built on high school recruits rather than the Carlino, Reinhardt, Rowsey, Morrow, McEwen types that have had success but simply aren't here long enough to create a continuity of success.

[MU82]

I thought the recruiting comments were both accurate and fair. The lauded 2015 class saw only one player, Sacar, finish his eligibility. Wojo needs guys like Bailey, Cain, and Torrence to start delivering on the promise they bring. Long term success is typically built on high school recruits rather than the Carlino, Reinhardt, Rowsey, Morrow, McEwen types that have had success but simply aren't here long enough to create a continuity of success.

Agreed.

I do think the transfers "count" (and you didn't say otherwise), but I also think this current recruiting class is very important. It's off to a good start, but we need more.

[Galway Eagle]

I thought the recruiting comments were both accurate and fair. The lauded 2015 class saw only one player, Sacar, finish his eligibility. Wojo needs guys like Bailey, Cain, and Torrence to start delivering on the promise they bring. Long term success is typically built on high school recruits rather than the Carlino, Reinhardt, Rowsey, Morrow, McEwen types that have had success but simply aren't here long enough to create a continuity of success.

Held teas part of that class and finished his eligibility as well. If the 2015 and 2016 classes had all stuck around/not been on a mission we'd be looking at two ridiculously good years back to back. Oh what could've been

[muguru]

Two things stand out from what I thought was a really even-handed look at things-

On Symir-
"But will we see Torrence much, if at all, this winter? The inevitable playing time crunch creates a discussion for the coaching staff: Despite Torrence’s apparent comfort level, do they burn a year of his eligibility on minuscule minutes? Or is it wiser to effectively shift him back into the 2020 class, while he continues to progress during practices?"

You're gonna need a third ballhandler, and he's stronger with the ball than Dex/Greg/Sacar. I'll be very disappointed if they redshirt him.

On recruiting-
"Marquette has had its share of recruiting wins during Wojciechowski’s tenure. Appropriate levels of optimism followed each of those wins. The primary issue facing the program at the moment is that only one of those wins truly lasted, and that otherwise the wins were scarce or non-existent for two entire cycles, which has put a premium on player development in the extremely near term of this preseason as well as notching some fairly significant victories in the Class of 2020.

To review: Three top-100 players arrived in 2016: Howard, Bailey and Sam Hauser. Only one of them, Howard, hits the exacta of still being on the roster and producing in a significant way throughout his career. In the ensuing two seasons, one top-100 player signed, and Joey Hauser now resides in East Lansing, Mich. Only one of the four 2017 signees, John, has made inroads as a legitimate Big East player. If we’re to be brutally honest about it, there are mostly gaping holes where the talent accrued over two entire cycles should be."

He's absolutely right about this, and the transfers have helped paper the cracks. But these are the top-150 composite guys Woj has brought in-

Ellenson- 9
Cheatham- 75
Carter- 127
Heldt- 136
Bailey- 92
S. Hauser- 83
Markus- 68
Cain- 145
J. Hauser- 52
Torrence- 75

You can argue about Henry's impact, but the only two that were hits out of that group so far were Sam and Markus... and Sam ain't here.

I hate to keep harping on this, but this is what I have been saying for awhile now...though everyone here seems to get giddy like school girls whenever MU lands a top 150 kid, I have been saying, the higher up you go in the rankings, the LESS chance you have of a bust..these numbers bare that out. So when people get on me about wanting MU to land kids higher up the top 100 list..well, you can see why. It shouldn't shock anyone that Carter, Heldt and Cain, who were all ranked outside the top 100, were the three least impactful players from this list.

It's so key to land highly ranked kids(that will stay all 4 years) to avoid the "bust" factor as much as possible, and to HELP with continuity. Kids below 100 and the further out you go from there, the bigger the bust factor becomes..I would rather they fill open schollies with transfer(s), then make a reach on a kid ranked much outside the top 100.

[Its DJOver]

I hate to keep harping on this, but this is what I have been saying for awhile now...though everyone here seems to get giddy like school girls whenever MU lands a top 150 kid, I have been saying, the higher up you go in the rankings, the LESS chance you have of a bust..these numbers bare that out. So when people get on me about wanting MU to land kids higher up the top 100 list..well, you can see why. It shouldn't shock anyone that Carter, Heldt and Cain, who were all ranked outside the top 100, were the three least impactful players from this list.

It's so key to land highly ranked kids(that will stay all 4 years) to avoid the "bust" factor as much as possible, and to HELP with continuity. Kids below 100 and the further out you go from there, the bigger the bust factor becomes..I would rather they fill open schollies with transfer(s), then make a reach on a kid ranked much outside the top 100.

People don't get on you for wanting top recruits.  People get on you when you immediately dismiss any recruit that we show interest in that is outside the top 100.  There have been many recruits where we offer when they are outside the arbitrary top 100 cut-off, that later enter the arbitrary top 100, both Osa and Davis fit this mold, and I (and I assume you as well) would be very happy to get both of those players.  Yes I'd still love to get Suggs and Garcia too, but casting a wide net is not a bad thing, and there are many examples that support this.   

[jesmu84]

People don't get on you for wanting top recruits.  People get on you when you immediately dismiss any recruit that we show interest in that is outside the top 100.  There have been many recruits where we offer when they are outside the arbitrary top 100 cut-off, that later enter the arbitrary top 100, both Osa and Davis fit this mold, and I (and I assume you as well) would be very happy to get both of those players.  Yes I'd still love to get Suggs and Garcia too, but casting a wide net is not a bad thing, and there are many examples that support this.

And then also getting mad that our staff doesn't find the diamond-in-the-rough Jarrett Culvers of the world.

[MU82]

And then also getting mad that our staff doesn't find the diamond-in-the-rough Jarrett Culvers of the world.

Yep. It's like getting mad when we only hire mid-major coaches or assistants, and then asking why we couldn't get Chris Beard.

[WhiteTrash]

Trying to evaluate Wojo before 10 years is foolhardy and unfair considering the rebuild he is facing. Let's regroup after 2024; before then 'wins no matta'. 

[muguru]

And then also getting mad that our staff doesn't find the diamond-in-the-rough Jarrett Culvers of the world.

I don't get mad at the staff that they can't find these types, i get mad that the staff RELIES on these types, and hope some of them work out like Culver did. You prevent ever having to be in that situation by upping your recruiting to a level where it's not necessary to have guys like that become a necessity for your program. If your recruiting is good enough to begin with, and the bottom end of the roster guys develop like that, that's great, if they don't..no big deal. That's been MU's problem, they bring in guys like that and HOPE/THINK/Pray they develop to the level they NEED them to be at. That's not going to work consistently. Land better recruits and this never becomes an issue.

[brewcity77]

I don't get mad at the staff that they can't find these types, i get mad that the staff RELIES on these types, and hope some of them work out like Culver did.

You get mad about virtually everything except winning, which you are oddly ambivalent about.

[muguru]

You get mad about virtually everything except winning, which you are oddly ambivalent about.

There's actually lots of things I don't get mad about. I'm incredibly easy going to be honest...as far as winning goes..I will answer that with a few great quotes "“Winning takes precedence over all. There’s no gray area. No almosts.”- Kobe Bryant...“If you’re going to play at all, you’re out to win. Baseball, board games, playing Jeopardy, I hate to lose.”- Derek Jeter...“The person that said winning isn’t everything, never won anything.” -Mia Hamm; “Winning solves everything.”- Tiger Woods; “Show me a gracious loser and I’ll show you a failure.”- Knute Rockne... “Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.”- Vince Lombardi and finally..the grand slam of all quotes...sums me up perfectly...“Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next.” -George Steinbrenner

[WhiteTrash]

Nothing sums it up better for me than:

"The ceiling is the roof": Michael Jordan.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

There's actually lots of things I don't get mad about. I'm incredibly easy going to be honest...as far as winning goes..I will answer that with a few great quotes "“Winning takes precedence over all. There’s no gray area. No almosts.”- Kobe Bryant...“If you’re going to play at all, you’re out to win. Baseball, board games, playing Jeopardy, I hate to lose.”- Derek Jeter...“The person that said winning isn’t everything, never won anything.” -Mia Hamm; “Winning solves everything.”- Tiger Woods; “Show me a gracious loser and I’ll show you a failure.”- Knute Rockne... “Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.”- Vince Lombardi and finally..the grand slam of all quotes...sums me up perfectly...“Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next.” -George Steinbrenner

Why do you make every post about you and your victimization? No one really cares.

[Galway Eagle]

Nothing sums it up better for me than:

"The ceiling is the roof": Michael Jordan.

"The roof is on fire" Master Scott & the Dynamic Three

[jesmu84]

I don't get mad at the staff that they can't find these types, i get mad that the staff RELIES on these types, and hope some of them work out like Culver did. You prevent ever having to be in that situation by upping your recruiting to a level where it's not necessary to have guys like that become a necessity for your program. If your recruiting is good enough to begin with, and the bottom end of the roster guys develop like that, that's great, if they don't..no big deal. That's been MU's problem, they bring in guys like that and HOPE/THINK/Pray they develop to the level they NEED them to be at. That's not going to work consistently. Land better recruits and this never becomes an issue.

Hmm...

...This has maybe been the biggest problem. When has it ever happened for MU where they bring in a kid like a Ja Morant?? So under the radar, yet, turns into an absolute stud??...