MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Marcus92 on June 27, 2019, 12:50:42 PM
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Part of ESPN's ongoing series on programs that have "faced the challenge of moving on from a single historically revered coach":
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27010909/depaul-sad-journey-name-brand-ran (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27010909/depaul-sad-journey-name-brand-ran)
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Have to imagine that if NCST is on there we likely will be as well.
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Lunardi: The best "comp" for DePaul is Marquette (not Notre Dame). They are both urban, basketball-only schools formed by a lifelong legend (Ray Meyer, Al McGuire). But Marquette moved more quickly into the modern era in terms of conference affiliation, facilities, coaching profile and game experience. And even with all that, the ride was bumpy. Where are the Golden Eagles today without Dwyane Wade? Or if situated in a larger city or without a venue that's a short ride (or ambitious walk) from campus? Possibly not too far off the current state of affairs at DePaul. You want to blame all that on a coach or athletic director, go ahead, but it seems like a much bigger set of challenges to me.
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I saw that glib comment by Lunardi. The article was about coaches that followed legends.He failed to recognize the following :
1. All of the MU coaches post Al have had very good winning percentages , with the exception of the brief reign of Dukiet. So it was more than a D Wade thing.
2. MU fan base is highly loyal and large. 11,000 plus season tickets. So we have both student support and alumni and even community support.
3. Prior to Al MU had a respectable basketball history dating from the mid 40s.
4. Al's star shined much brighter than Ray Meyers ever did. There are still many people today who recognize Al's accomplishments as coach and remember him as an announcer.
5. MU has had good quality management in the athletic department post Al. DePaul has been run by incompetents.
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Part of ESPN's ongoing series on programs that have "faced the challenge of moving on from a single historically revered coach":
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27010909/depaul-sad-journey-name-brand-ran (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27010909/depaul-sad-journey-name-brand-ran)
DePaul's problems begin and end with three words -- Jean Lenti Ponsetto.
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DePaul's problems begin and end with three words -- Jean Lenti Ponsetto.
Actually, they began with Bill Bradshaw, who sabotaged Joey Meyer and DePaul’s relationships with CPL schools. JLP took it to another level.
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I saw that glib comment by Lunardi. The article was about coaches that followed legends.He failed to recognize the following :
1. All of the MU coaches post Al have had very good winning percentages , with the exception of the brief reign of Dukiet. So it was more than a D Wade thing.
2. MU fan base is highly loyal and large. 11,000 plus season tickets. So we have both student support and alumni and even community support.
3. Prior to Al MU had a respectable basketball history dating from the mid 40s.
4. Al's star shined much brighter than Ray Meyers ever did. There are still many people today who recognize Al's accomplishments as coach and remember him as an announcer.
5. MU has had good quality management in the athletic department post Al. DePaul has been run by incompetents.
Ray Meyer was pretty big back in the day, don’t kid yourself. He had a great run for a long time at DePaul.
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I saw that glib comment by Lunardi. The article was about coaches that followed legends.He failed to recognize the following :
1. All of the MU coaches post Al have had very good winning percentages , with the exception of the brief reign of Dukiet. So it was more than a D Wade thing.
2. MU fan base is highly loyal and large. 11,000 plus season tickets. So we have both student support and alumni and even community support.
3. Prior to Al MU had a respectable basketball history dating from the mid 40s.
4. Al's star shined much brighter than Ray Meyers ever did. There are still many people today who recognize Al's accomplishments as coach and remember him as an announcer.
5. MU has had good quality management in the athletic department post Al. DePaul has been run by incompetents.
His point is that DePaul could have been like Marquette had they made the right moves.
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DePaul's problems begin and end with three words -- Jean Lenti Ponsetto.
It always comes back to her, but despite sustained bad MBB performance she hasn't been fired. So it seems like at this point people would start aiming their ire a little higher. And maybe also reflect on why they are so focused on her.
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It always comes back to her, but despite sustained bad MBB performance she hasn't been fired. So it seems like at this point people would start aiming their ire a little higher. And maybe also reflect on why they are so focused on her.
Yeah I mean she’s probably doing what the leadership wants considering she’s been around so long.
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I saw that glib comment by Lunardi. The article was about coaches that followed legends.He failed to recognize the following :
1. All of the MU coaches post Al have had very good winning percentages , with the exception of the brief reign of Dukiet. So it was more than a D Wade thing.
2. MU fan base is highly loyal and large. 11,000 plus season tickets. So we have both student support and alumni and even community support.
3. Prior to Al MU had a respectable basketball history dating from the mid 40s.
4. Al's star shined much brighter than Ray Meyers ever did. There are still many people today who recognize Al's accomplishments as coach and remember him as an announcer.
5. MU has had good quality management in the athletic department post Al. DePaul has been run by incompetents.
1. You're in the fire Wojo camp and yet you admit he has a very good winning percentage?
2. Depaul had a highly loyal fan base for years. If you go back to the old attendance records they were a massive draw. We'd lose ours too with seasons like them.
3. MU had two winning seasons in the 40s 8-6 and 11-7. I believe you meant the mid 50s as the start of MU basketball
4 & 5 I Agree wholeheartedly.
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Ray Meyer was pretty big back in the day, don’t kid yourself. He had a great run for a long time at DePaul.
No debate from me - Ray was pretty big back then. But that's the key: Ray was "pretty big." Al was an icon.
Ray's pretty big got them two Final Fours and zero titles in 43 years. Al won more in 13 years at MU.
In addition to this significant difference, DePaul's biggest problem has been JLP. There was potential after Ray and Joey, but she squandered it with one bad decision after another. #sleepinggiant
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Actually, they began with Bill Bradshaw, who sabotaged Joey Meyer and DePaul’s relationships with CPL schools. JLP took it to another level.
PLUS TAX
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Ray was pretty big for a few years, thanks to Al.
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His point is that DePaul could have been like Marquette had they made the right moves.
While I see the similarities, I think Marquette does have some built in advantages DePaul does not. Access to a NBA arena not far from campus, less sports competition (no NHL team, no NFL team), less D1 competition in town & in the state. While I know DePaul has scoffed at following the "Marquette model" in the past, I'm not sure it would be as easy for them as just emulating the things we've done right.
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Part of ESPN's ongoing series on programs that have "faced the challenge of moving on from a single historically revered coach":
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27010909/depaul-sad-journey-name-brand-ran (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27010909/depaul-sad-journey-name-brand-ran)
I read the whole series of articles. MU not on the list, but has performed better than all on the list with the exception of UNC.
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While I see the similarities, I think Marquette does have some built in advantages DePaul does not. Access to a NBA arena not far from campus, less sports competition (no NHL team, no NFL team), less D1 competition in town & in the state. While I know DePaul has scoffed at following the "Marquette model" in the past, I'm not sure it would be as easy for them as just emulating the things we've done right.
DePaul had the opportunity to use the United Center rent free, and turned it down for a smaller arena further from campus. Granted, neither is as close to campus as the BC/FF to Marquette, but DePaul turned down a closer NBA arena for a more distant, lower profile venue. That's on JLP.
And while Milwaukee per se doesn't have an NFL team, the Packers are every bit as big a deal in Milwaukee (arguably even bigger) as the Bears are in Chicago. I recall MU games that coincided with Packer playoff games, and the BC was half empty...and many of the fans who did attend were watching the Packers in the concourse.
Yes, every situation is unique, but I don't think all of MU's "built in" advantages are as great as you think.
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Ray was pretty big for a few years, thanks to Al.
yes, but ray also wasn't one to miss a meal though either ;)
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DePaul had the opportunity to use the United Center rent free, and turned it down for a smaller arena further from campus. Granted, neither is as close to campus as the BC/FF to Marquette, but DePaul turned down a closer NBA arena for a more distant, lower profile venue. That's on JLP.
DePaul playing in the UC would have been laughable. They can’t even fill half the seats in Wintrust. At least the thought of a home court advantage is at least plausible at Wintrust.
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While I see the similarities, I think Marquette does have some built in advantages DePaul does not. Access to a NBA arena not far from campus, less sports competition (no NHL team, no NFL team), less D1 competition in town & in the state. While I know DePaul has scoffed at following the "Marquette model" in the past, I'm not sure it would be as easy for them as just emulating the things we've done right.
During the Al years the Packers played 3 games every season at Milwaukee County stadium; not sure when that stopped however.
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That stopped in 1994, which my first thought is "not that long ago" but then I do the math. :-[
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DePaul playing in the UC would have been laughable. They can’t even fill half the seats in Wintrust. At least the thought of a home court advantage is at least plausible at Wintrust.
This.
It has been said that DePaul either couldn't or wouldn't acquire land in Lincoln Park, but the obviously smart thing to have done would have been to acquire enough to build a nice 7,000-seat arena on campus. Then, if the program gets on solid footing again to where it is drawing lots of fans, they could play select games at the U.C.
That's the model of BEast teams such as St. John's, Nova and UConn.
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Ray was pretty big for a few years, thanks to Al.
Do you mean thanks to Al leaving MU? DePaul took off and began dominating Chicago recruiting as soon as McGuire retired from coaching.
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DePaul playing in the UC would have been laughable. They can’t even fill half the seats in Wintrust. At least the thought of a home court advantage is at least plausible at Wintrust.
I don't doubt that the UC would be mostly empty. But I was responding to brew's comment that MU has "natural advantages", and he listed playing in an NBA arena as one of them. So if simply playing in an NBA arena is an advantage, DePaul had the opportunity and turned it down.
The real truth is that playing in the BC/FF has been an advantage for MU because we have enough fans to turn them into real home courts, and thus use them as selling points for our program.
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The Aguirre/Cummings years were before I got to Chicago, but I've been told by many who know that DePaul basketball was much bigger than the Bulls back then. Sold out the Horizon every game, and the place was rocking. It looked like a dynasty in the making, but Joey couldn't keep things going.
There was a mini-renaissance under Cheatin' Pat Kennedy in the late-90s/early-aughts, with Richardson, Simmons and Williams. Though sellouts were rare (perhaps because fans remained skeptical?), crowds were much larger and louder.
The above anecdotes provide the fuel to the whole "sleeping giant" narrative. And while we like to laugh at that, what if they are able to hire a dynamic coach who can turn things around? Like any other fan base, Chicagoans love winners. The Blackhawks couldn't get 6000 fannies into UC seats for a few years there; then they start winning big and the place is hockeytown again.
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I Hate DePaul, Not like DePaul, but on the recruiting side we are also chasing ghosts
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" Like any other fan base, Chicagoans love winners."
one outlier though...da cubbies, eyna?
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Ray Meyer coached at DePaul for 42 years, from 1942-84. He didn’t achieve real success until the late 70s, when he landed two Chicago studs in Cummings and Aguirre. Go figure, that happened shortly after Al retired. He certainly had longevity, and he’s in the HOF, but it took three decades and the retirement of a better coach for him to get that program rolling. That ain’t too great, in my opinion.
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Ray Meyer coached at DePaul for 42 years, from 1942-84. He didn’t achieve real success until the late 70s, when he landed two Chicago studs in Cummings and Aguirre. Go figure, that happened shortly after Al retired. He certainly had longevity, and he’s in the HOF, but it took three decades and the retirement of a better coach for him to get that program rolling. That ain’t too great, in my opinion.
George Mikan says hi also why is it we all go nuts about the 1970 NIT championship for Al but for someone like Meyer we only base his success off NCAA appearances
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George Mikan says hi also why is it we all go nuts about the 1970 NIT championship for Al but for someone like Meyer we only base his success off NCAA appearances
Mikan was a frosh in Meyer's first season, so I suspect he was already coming to DePaul when Meyer was hired. And - go figure - Meyer's best seasons before the late 70s were with Mikan on the roster.
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During the Al years the Packers played 3 games every season at Milwaukee County stadium; not sure when that stopped however.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/d1/b5/51d1b5bcfa81c8b05d856000aa7e0141.jpg)
It stopped right here in 1994 when the greatest Packer QB of all time dove in to the end zone, securing the Packers a spot in the playoffs.
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Mikan was a frosh in Meyer's first season, so I suspect he was already coming to DePaul when Meyer was hired. And - go figure - Meyer's best seasons before the late 70s were with Mikan on the roster.
According to accounts I have read, Mikan was incredibly awkward and Meyer, in his first year, took a chance on him. Meyer invented the "Mikan Drill" just for big George, and teams from youth leagues up through college still use it today.
As Mikan matured into his body, he became a star, and he and Meyer went to a Final Four and won an NIT title back when it was at least as important as the NCAAs. It was decades before DePaul really made another national splash.
My son went to Ray's last 5 years of basketball camps up in northern Wisconsin. I went up there once for a few days just to see what it was all about. A very special environment for the kids.
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DePaul playing in the UC would have been laughable. They can’t even fill half the seats in Wintrust. At least the thought of a home-court advantage is at least plausible at Wintrust.
At the time Reinsdorf (owner of the Bulls & Sox and owns 50% of the UC, the Blackhawks own the other 50%) wanted to kill off Wintrust (as it was going to provide competition for the UC in booking concerts).
He offered Depaul the UC rent free, their own floor and was going to install a giant black curtain to close off the upper deck. The lower deck is about 12k and that would not make it look empty if the drew 6k to 8k (UC holds 22k to 23k for bball).
Rahm (Chicago Mayor) wanted Wintrust in a bad way and needed Depaul as an anchor tenant to sell the idea to the city council.
When Depaul was considering the UC offer, Rahm called them into their office, no one knows what was said or what pictures where shown, but the Depaul brass exited that meeting 100% behind Wintrust. The idea of UC died at that meeting.
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At the time Reinsdorf (owner of the Bulls & Sox and owns 50% of the UC, the Blackhawks own the other 50%) wanted to kill off Wintrust (as it was going to provide competition for the UC in booking concerts).
He offered Depaul the UC rent free, their own floor and was going to install a giant black curtain to close off the upper deck. The lower deck is about 12k and that would not make it look empty if the drew 6k to 8k (UC holds 22k to 23k for bball).
Rahm (Chicago Mayor) wanted Wintrust in a bad way and needed Depaul as an anchor tenant to sell the idea to the city council.
When Depaul was considering the UC offer, Rahm called them into their office, no one knows what was said or what pictures where shown, but the Depaul brass exited that meeting 100% behind Wintrust. The idea of UC died at that meeting.
Didn't Reinsdorf want all of the concession money? I don't know how much revenue that would lose. Wintrust was probably built by "city friendly" contractors, in the same way the city dragged their feet through the Cubs construction, cause they weren't city friendly.
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Blocking off the upper deck of the UC would still make it a cavernous arena and a terrible atmosphere for college basketball.
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At the time Reinsdorf (owner of the Bulls & Sox and owns 50% of the UC, the Blackhawks own the other 50%) wanted to kill off Wintrust (as it was going to provide competition for the UC in booking concerts).
He offered Depaul the UC rent free, their own floor and was going to install a giant black curtain to close off the upper deck. The lower deck is about 12k and that would not make it look empty if the drew 6k to 8k (UC holds 22k to 23k for bball).
Rahm (Chicago Mayor) wanted Wintrust in a bad way and needed Depaul as an anchor tenant to sell the idea to the city council.
When Depaul was considering the UC offer, Rahm called them into their office, no one knows what was said or what pictures where shown, but the Depaul brass exited that meeting 100% behind Wintrust. The idea of UC died at that meeting.
Blocking off the upper deck of the UC would still make it a cavernous arena and a terrible atmosphere for college basketball.
A broken clock is correct twice a day and DePaul made the right move by turning down United Center. United would have been a slightly better version of Rosemont, that is a not easily accessible by students empty tomb.
While not an on campus arena, Wintrust has the benefit of being easily accessible by public transit /school buses etc . So eventually, when the day comes that DePaul has a team that can inspire the students they will be able to get to the games. From recruiting standpoint it also shows well.
Also long term, again if DePaul has some success, the ease of getting to that arena for business related entertainment is easier, whether it be from the loop or people at trades shows looking to do something.
Bottom line, is if DePaul can win , Wintrust becomes a decent asset to their program. They should be able to get 7-8,00 people in the seats regularly which would make for a loud environment.
So far it looks like Wintrust has some success in booking concerts, WNBA, special events like NBA all star celebrity game etc. The place is getting known. So Rahms arena may have been a fiscal folly for sure, but operationally I think it is gaining traction.
I have heard from many who have gone to games that the concessions suck, but hopefully that can be worked out over time.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/d1/b5/51d1b5bcfa81c8b05d856000aa7e0141.jpg)
It stopped right here in 1994 when the greatest Packer QB of all time dove in to the end zone, securing the Packers a spot in the playoffs.
Bart Starr played for the Pack in '94?
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A broken clock is correct twice a day and DePaul made the right move by turning down United Center. United would have been a slightly better version of Rosemont, that is a not easily accessible by students empty tomb.
While not an on campus arena, Wintrust has the benefit of being easily accessible by public transit /school buses etc . So eventually, when the day comes that DePaul has a team that can inspire the students they will be able to get to the games. From recruiting standpoint it also shows well.
Also long term, again if DePaul has some success, the ease of getting to that arena for business related entertainment is easier, whether it be from the loop or people at trades shows looking to do something.
Bottom line, is if DePaul can win , Wintrust becomes a decent asset to their program. They should be able to get 7-8,00 people in the seats regularly which would make for a loud environment.
So far it looks like Wintrust has some success in booking concerts, WNBA, special events like NBA all star celebrity game etc. The place is getting known. So Rahms arena may have been a fiscal folly for sure, but operationally I think it is gaining traction.
I have heard from many who have gone to games that the concessions suck, but hopefully that can be worked out over time.
1. United center is very easily accessible. It's a short walk from the Ashland Green line.
2. Students at Depaul live all over. I know some that live at home in the far western burbs, some live down in Beverly. I've met some out in Forest Park. It's not like the "campus" mindset that Marquette or even Loyola has.
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2. Students at Depaul live all over. I know some that live at home in the far western burbs, some live down in Beverly. I've met some out in Forest Park. It's not like the "campus" mindset that Marquette or even Loyola has.
While Marquette and DePaul have some notable similarities, there are also very big differences. This might be the biggest.
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1. United center is very easily accessible. It's a short walk from the Ashland Green line.
2. Students at Depaul live all over. I know some that live at home in the far western burbs, some live down in Beverly. I've met some out in Forest Park. It's not like the "campus" mindset that Marquette or even Loyola has.
While Marquette and DePaul have some notable similarities, there are also very big differences. This might be the biggest.
I agree that the domiciles of DePaul students hot as homogeneous as MU. MU has on site housing requirements for most kids. Also agree that there is public transit to United Center. The fact is neighborhood at United Center, while improved from back in the day, is still lousy.
Wintrust is in a solid area that has vitality and the public transit access is one straight shot from the loop and Lincoln Park on the red line. Just overall makes a lot of sense for DePaul relative to the United Center.
The real key is for DePaul to put together a string of winning seasons and build their support base. Without that ,nothing really matters.
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I agree that the domiciles of DePaul students hot as homogeneous as MU. MU has on site housing requirements for most kids. Also agree that there is public transit to United Center. The fact is neighborhood at United Center, while improved from back in the day, is still lousy.
Wintrust is in a solid area that has vitality and the public transit access is one straight shot from the loop and Lincoln Park on the red line. Just overall makes a lot of sense for DePaul relative to the United Center.
The real key is for DePaul to put together a string of winning seasons and build their support base. Without that ,nothing really matters.
Agree on wintrust making more sense. But the area around the UC is just fine. There's three major breweries within walking distance, two or three fancy restaurants, a coupe concert venues. A park that hosts a major festival, relatively new housing all to the north of the UC to the El. I don't know how long it's been since you were there Hermain but it's gotta at least be 5-10yrs since the area was "lousy" as you put it. Not going to confuse it with Streeterville but it's not lousy.
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Agree on wintrust making more sense. But the area around the UC is just fine. There's three major breweries within walking distance, two or three fancy restaurants, a coupe concert venues. A park that hosts a major festival, relatively new housing all to the north of the UC to the El. I don't know how long it's been since you were there Hermain but it's gotta at least be 5-10yrs since the area was "lousy" as you put it. Not going to confuse it with Streeterville but it's not lousy.
Back in my day parking for Bulls and Blackhawks was kindly provided by the gentleman in the neighborhood for $2.50 and extra $2.50 for if you wanted "Supervision" ............
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The real key is for DePaul to put together a string of winning seasons and build their support base. Without that, nothing really matters.
This really sums it up. DePaul has finished last in the Big East 9 out of the past 11 years, with just 2 winning seasons since Dave Leitao's first go-round in Chicago 15 years ago. Their conference record during that period is 52-144 -- a winning percentage of just 26.5%. That includes a six-year stretch where DePaul managed a truly abysmal 11-98 (.101) Big East record.
When the product on the court is that bad, they could have the best on-campus arena in the country and still have trouble drawing decent crowds. How is watching terrible basketball, year after year, something that students and alumni want to spend their time and money on?
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1. United center is very easily accessible. It's a short walk from the Ashland Green line.
2. Students at Depaul live all over. I know some that live at home in the far western burbs, some live down in Beverly. I've met some out in Forest Park. It's not like the "campus" mindset that Marquette or even Loyola has.
Hmmmm....I wonder where that could have been...
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Hmmmm....I wonder where that could have been...
Don't suppose you'd believe me if I said Starbucks
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I agree that the domiciles of DePaul students hot as homogeneous as MU. MU has on site housing requirements for most kids. Also agree that there is public transit to United Center. The fact is neighborhood at United Center, while improved from back in the day, is still lousy.
Wintrust is in a solid area that has vitality and the public transit access is one straight shot from the loop and Lincoln Park on the red line. Just overall makes a lot of sense for DePaul relative to the United Center.
The real key is for DePaul to put together a string of winning seasons and build their support base. Without that ,nothing really matters.
This is false. MU only requires freshmen and sophomores to live on campus, and only if they aren't living with a parent or legal guardian.
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Students at Depaul live all over. I know some that live at home in the far western burbs, some live down in Beverly. I've met some out in Forest Park. It's not like the "campus" mindset that Marquette or even Loyola has.
My son has almost finished getting his degree at DePaul -- just 1 or maybe 2 more quarters to go. (He went back to school after taking a 10-year hiatus.) He lives in Lakeview with his wife; many of his classes are online. The only game he ever wants to go to is the MU game, because he's a Marquette fan. (Of course!)
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This is false. MU only requires freshmen and sophomores to live on campus, and only if they aren't living with a parent or legal guardian.
I put the words in most to cover what you are saying. To be specific there is a mileage radius for freshman and sophomores as well beyond which they have to live on campus. Many juniors and seniors take in University apartments or live close by. Bottom line is MU is not a commuter school.
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Don't suppose you'd believe me if I said Starbucks
That is an option, but I would guess Doc’s!
Currently I am partial to exit strategy.
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That is an option, but I would guess Doc’s!
Currently I am partial to exit strategy.
Haha that's a good guess though it's rare I leave O'Sullivans if someone manages to drag me down to Madison St. Only been to exit strategy once, I'll have to give it another shot. Have you checked out One Lake yet? Heard it looks awesome
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Bottom line, is if DePaul can win , Wintrust becomes a decent asset to their program. They should be able to get 7-8,000 people in the seats regularly which would make for a loud environment.
Five of DePaul's first nine home games in 2018-19 drew fewer than 1,000.
https://depauliaonline.com/38569/sports/feeling-emptier-non-conference-attendance-drops-in-wintrusts-2nd-year/
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Haha that's a good guess though it's rare I leave O'Sullivans if someone manages to drag me down to Madison St. Only been to exit strategy once, I'll have to give it another shot. Have you checked out One Lake yet? Heard it looks awesome
O'Sullivans!
One Lake is a beautiful spot-did a really great job with the inside; the deck up top is nice, though the view is not what I would have thought (b/c the view east is blocked by part of the structure). And it is a nice anchor for that corner of town.
Food was above average pub, beers are good, and it is a nice place for wife and daughter bc they prefer beers on the wheatier, lighter and lower abv side, and those are points of emphasis.
My favorite FP dive bar currently is the bar at Circle Lanes-we are in a once a month bowling league that runs other than the summer.
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A broken clock is correct twice a day and DePaul made the right move by turning down United Center.
So people are wrong when they use "playing in an NBA arena" as an asset for MU? Because I have seen it hundreds of times, here on Scoop and elsewhere.
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So people are wrong when they use "playing in an NBA arena" as an asset for MU? Because I have seen it hundreds of times, here on Scoop and elsewhere.
No they are not wrong. Playing in an NBA arena would be a positive for DePaul as well, but not under the conditions of what the UC was offering and the state of the DePaul program.
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So people are wrong when they use "playing in an NBA arena" as an asset for MU? Because I have seen it hundreds of times, here on Scoop and elsewhere.
Our NBA arena is within walking distance of campus and we have 11,300 season ticket holders. We also win the vast majority of our games. This dates back to the days at the Milwaukee Arena. The tradition and culture is a nice advantage for us. Also many of the NBA teams will practice at The Al . In some respects, we might be the only University with this kind of set up. The others that play in NBA arenas are not as proximate to the school.
The only school I am aware of that has anything even close to what we are is Creighton, where they play in what I would call an NBA style arena, that is withing sight-line of their campus. They too fill it up. Which I think partially explains their respectable basketball tradition.
Our set up allows us to compete with the P5 schools that have large on campus arenas.
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O'Sullivans!
One Lake is a beautiful spot-did a really great job with the inside; the deck up top is nice, though the view is not what I would have thought (b/c the view east is blocked by part of the structure). And it is a nice anchor for that corner of town.
Food was above average pub, beers are good, and it is a nice place for wife and daughter bc they prefer beers on the wheatier, lighter and lower abv side, and those are points of emphasis.
My favorite FP dive bar currently is the bar at Circle Lanes-we are in a once a month bowling league that runs other than the summer.
Nice, thanks for the info. I'll have to check it out now that I'm back for the time being. Still skeptical about the location and think it will be a detriment but who knows maybe it opens up that part of town a bit more.
Can't even remember the last time I was down at circle lanes!
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This is false. MU only requires freshmen and sophomores to live on campus, and only if they aren't living with a parent or legal guardian.
So ur agreeing they do have requirements.
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So ur agreeing they do have requirements.
But not for "most kids" as Herman claimed.
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But not for "most kids" as Herman claimed.
Once again conflating things. I said rather than go through the details I just said most. Here is the exact rule
Marquette University Residency Requirement
All unmarried first and second year students regardless of their academic classifications are
required to live in university residence halls. Exceptions are made only for those students
residing with a parent at their permanent address within a 35-mile radius of campus, students who
are 21 years of age, or those who graduated from high school at least two years prior to the start of
the semester.
All students who are required to live on campus and do not select a housing assignment will be
assigned one unless they have received an official written exemption from the requirement.
Then in the Junior years there are lotteries for the available on campus apartments, which typically sell out . Some students elect to live off campus.
Again the point being made is Marquette is not a commuter school.
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Once again conflating things. I said rather than go through the details I just said most. Here is the exact rule
Marquette University Residency Requirement
All unmarried first and second year students regardless of their academic classifications are
required to live in university residence halls. Exceptions are made only for those students
residing with a parent at their permanent address within a 35-mile radius of campus, students who
are 21 years of age, or those who graduated from high school at least two years prior to the start of
the semester.
All students who are required to live on campus and do not select a housing assignment will be
assigned one unless they have received an official written exemption from the requirement.
I had a few classmates who tried to scam that exception, using "relatives" within the radius (35 miles seems rather arbitrary) to get out of the on-campus housing requirement during sophomore year.
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Our NBA arena is within walking distance of campus and we have 11,300 season ticket holders. We also win the vast majority of our games. This dates back to the days at the Milwaukee Arena. The tradition and culture is a nice advantage for us. Also many of the NBA teams will practice at The Al . In some respects, we might be the only University with this kind of set up. The others that play in NBA arenas are not as proximate to the school.
So to paraphrase: MU’s advantages really come from a superior fan base and fortunate geography, and the NBA factor is just a red herring?
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So to paraphrase: MU’s advantages really come from a superior fan base and fortunate geography, and the NBA factor is just a red herring?
I think the first point is correct for sure. I think relative to your second point, the NBA in a vacuum is not a huge factor, however , taken in combination with point one and the historical relationship between the the organizations it adds a certain appeal into the equation. Makes for a longer list of good points at a minimum.
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https://twitter.com/evandaniels/status/1166870008548515846?s=21
https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status/1166852687863803904?s=21
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He's a basket case
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DePaul playing in the UC would have been laughable. They can’t even fill half the seats in Wintrust. At least the thought of a home court advantage is at least plausible at Wintrust.
I attended mu depaul games at the UC. Granted it was during the kennedy years and they had good teams but the crowds were no laughable
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https://twitter.com/evandaniels/status/1166870008548515846?s=21
https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status/1166852687863803904?s=21
That is a hige loss for duhpaul
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is anyone else surprised we didn't end up on this list? I mean they had UCLA, IU and UNC. We're chasing ghosts much more so than them
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is anyone else surprised we didn't end up on this list? I mean they had UCLA, IU and UNC. We're chasing ghosts much more so than them
(https://i1.wp.com/www.eximmexico.com.mx/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Captura-de-pantalla-24.png)
(https://pics.me.me/trc-troii-sns-sometimesi-see-dead-people-new-timberwolf-lazar-48740956.png)
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This.
It has been said that DePaul either couldn't or wouldn't acquire land in Lincoln Park, but the obviously smart thing to have done would have been to acquire enough to build a nice 7,000-seat arena on campus. Then, if the program gets on solid footing again to where it is drawing lots of fans, they could play select games at the U.C.
That's the model of BEast teams such as St. John's, Nova and UConn.
This is not true, they were offered the Finkl Steelyards area which is walking distance from campus. It was a once in a generation opportunity to buy a large chunk of prime real estate on the river, with amazing views of the city, and walking distance to campus and they declined. DePaul is the worst run school in the country if you ask me and I graduated there with my Master's.
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That is an option, but I would guess Doc’s!
Currently I am partial to exit strategy.
Good beer, especially the special brews. Food has always been hit or miss. More consistent at Wild Onion. Need to try One Lake, but agree with later comments the location might be tough with some OPers.
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This is not true, they were offered the Finkl Steelyards area which is walking distance from campus. It was a once in a generation opportunity to buy a large chunk of prime real estate on the river, with amazing views of the city, and walking distance to campus and they declined. DePaul is the worst run school in the country if you ask me and I graduated there with my Master's.
Didn’t know this. Obviously closer, but that’s still a long walk, especially in winter. Bonus though, get to walk by Sweet Mandy B’s to the game.
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Left unsaid...DU already has a big South Loop presence. If Chicago got the Summer Olympics, they would have also taken over the Olympic Village with UIC.
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DePaul had the opportunity to use the United Center rent free, and turned it down for a smaller arena further from campus. Granted, neither is as close to campus as the BC/FF to Marquette, but DePaul turned down a closer NBA arena for a more distant, lower profile venue. That's on JLP.
And while Milwaukee per se doesn't have an NFL team, the Packers are every bit as big a deal in Milwaukee (arguably even bigger) as the Bears are in Chicago. I recall MU games that coincided with Packer playoff games, and the BC was half empty...and many of the fans who did attend were watching the Packers in the concourse.
Yes, every situation is unique, but I don't think all of MU's "built in" advantages are as great as you think.
Chicago is way different. Distance is often not the point. One of the things I love about Milwaukee is that everything is a half-hour away from where you are. In Chicago, it takes that long to cross the street. And even if it was across the street, nobody from DePaul would walk to the United Center. Or take the bus there. Or want to park there. It is in the middle of the ghetto.
WinTrust Arena is about twenty minutes drive right down Lake Shore Drive from the DePaul campus. It takes about the same to get there on the El, which stops a couple blocks away. There i parking available, albeit expensive, and when the arena is not full, you can park on the street. And DePaul owns part of it, so they get to set the policies on it, get it when they want it, etc. It is a nice arena really. Great sight lines. Looks clean and bright. Nice graphics. And it can be a very nice place to watch a college game. Five thousand people in WinTrust looks and sounds much better than that many at the UC. if DePaul gets good enough to fill the place, it will be a good home court. And it is such a huge improvement on the Allstate Arena. People who had tickets in the past often did not use them because it was too much effort. Now they are showing up. it will take a while, but DePaul is on to something good.
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https://twitter.com/evandaniels/status/1166870008548515846?s=21
https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status/1166852687863803904?s=21
Addition by subtraction. Good enough player for a team like DePaul to take a flyer on. Good for them that they found out so quickly that it did not work.
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Do you mean thanks to Al leaving MU? DePaul took off and began dominating Chicago recruiting as soon as McGuire retired from coaching.
Goddamn Hank.
Let me have your attention for a moment:
Bitching about that Chicago recruit you lost...
Nice guy? I don't give a sh1t.
Good father? F#ck you, go home and play with your kids.
You know what it takes to coach elite Div I basketball? It takes brass balls to win championships.
Hank was handed one of the top 4 or 5 programs in college basketball. And he pissed it away.
Marquette was at an inflection point. Denny Crum said he would crawl on his belly to take over for Al. Digger begged for the job. Instead, Marquette chose Hank.
Marquette had the entire team coming back and Hank couldn't get past the first round against Miami of F#cking Ohio.
It's not that Hank didn't know basketball. The problem is that he didn't resonate with the recruits. He wasn't Al. Hell, he wasn't even Dick Vitale.
Into the void stepped Ray Meyer who started signing the Aguirres, Corbins, Cummings, and Garlands - guys who had been locks for Marquette (meanwhile, Denny Crum was signing the Darrell Griffiths, Derek Smiths, Milt Wagners, the McCrays, and Milt Thompsons on his way to ringing up championships.)
Biggest decision in Marquette's history and they chose Plan B: Caspar Milquetoast. Just a terrible decision.
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According to accounts I have read, Mikan was incredibly awkward and Meyer, in his first year, took a chance on him. Meyer invented the "Mikan Drill" just for big George, and teams from youth leagues up through college still use it today.
As Mikan matured into his body, he became a star, and he and Meyer went to a Final Four and won an NIT title back when it was at least as important as the NCAAs. It was decades before DePaul really made another national splash.
My son went to Ray's last 5 years of basketball camps up in northern Wisconsin. I went up there once for a few days just to see what it was all about. A very special environment for the kids.
Mike
The youth here don't realize that the NIT was actually the more prestigious tournament back in the day.
Great background stuff on Mikan, by the way.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/d1/b5/51d1b5bcfa81c8b05d856000aa7e0141.jpg)
It stopped right here in 1994 when the greatest Packer QB of all time dove in to the end zone, securing the Packers a spot in the playoffs.
David Whitehurst was QB'ing the Pack in 1994?
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This is false. MU only requires freshmen and sophomores to live on campus, and only if they aren't living with a parent or legal guardian.
in loco parentis
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I had a few classmates who tried to scam that exception, using "relatives" within the radius (35 miles seems rather arbitrary) to get out of the on-campus housing requirement during sophomore year.
What? They didn't want to live in the Vomitorium that was McCormick?
What astounded me was not just how so many weak bellied punks couldn't hold their liquor but how they thought puking in the Vator, the hallway, or, worse, the drinking fountain (Bubbler in Milwaukeese) was acceptable.
The drinking age was 18 back then. I guess at Georgetown Prep we learned how to handle our booze at all of those drug and booze-fueled Orgy Fests guys like Kavanaugh organized...
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This is not true, they were offered the Finkl Steelyards area which is walking distance from campus. It was a once in a generation opportunity to buy a large chunk of prime real estate on the river, with amazing views of the city, and walking distance to campus and they declined. DePaul is the worst run school in the country if you ask me and I graduated there with my Master's.
Although I still think the best place to put an arena would have been on the Children's Memorial Hospital property that since has been sold and will soon be an apartments/retail extravaganza, I did not know about the situation regarding the area you talk about here. Certainly intriguing, and if it really is within walking distance it would be better than being near McCormick Place IMHO.
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David Whitehurst was QB'ing the Pack in 1994?
Jimmy Del Gaizo.
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Goddamn Hank.
Let me have your attention for a moment:
Bitching about that Chicago recruit you lost...
Nice guy? I don't give a sh1t.
Good father? F#ck you, go home and play with your kids.
You know what it takes to coach elite Div I basketball? It takes brass balls to win championships.
Hank was handed one of the top 4 or 5 programs in college basketball. And he pissed it away.
Marquette was at an inflection point. Denny Crum said he would crawl on his belly to take over for Al. Digger begged for the job. Instead, Marquette chose Hank.
Marquette had the entire team coming back and Hank couldn't get past the first round against Miami of F#cking Ohio.
It's not that Hank didn't know basketball. The problem is that he didn't resonate with the recruits. He wasn't Al. Hell, he wasn't even Dick Vitale.
Into the void stepped Ray Meyer who started signing the Aguirres, Corbins, Cummings, and Garlands - guys who had been locks for Marquette (meanwhile, Denny Crum was signing the Darrell Griffiths, Derek Smiths, Milt Wagners, the McCrays, and Milt Thompsons on his way to ringing up championships.)
Biggest decision in Marquette's history and they chose Plan B: Caspar Milquetoast. Just a terrible decision.
You are not wrong. I also think Al was asked who should take over for him and Hank was his choice. They were going to listen to Al.
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Jimmy Del Gaizo.
Scott Hunter
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Goddamn Hank.
Let me have your attention for a moment:
Bitching about that Chicago recruit you lost...
Nice guy? I don't give a sh1t.
Good father? F#ck you, go home and play with your kids.
You know what it takes to coach elite Div I basketball? It takes brass balls to win championships.
Hank was handed one of the top 4 or 5 programs in college basketball. And he pissed it away.
Marquette was at an inflection point. Denny Crum said he would crawl on his belly to take over for Al. Digger begged for the job. Instead, Marquette chose Hank.
Marquette had the entire team coming back and Hank couldn't get past the first round against Miami of F#cking Ohio.
It's not that Hank didn't know basketball. The problem is that he didn't resonate with the recruits. He wasn't Al. Hell, he wasn't even Dick Vitale.
Into the void stepped Ray Meyer who started signing the Aguirres, Corbins, Cummings, and Garlands - guys who had been locks for Marquette (meanwhile, Denny Crum was signing the Darrell Griffiths, Derek Smiths, Milt Wagners, the McCrays, and Milt Thompsons on his way to ringing up championships.)
Biggest decision in Marquette's history and they chose Plan B: Caspar Milquetoast. Just a terrible decision.
How the hell did Ray resonate with the recruits?
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How the hell did Ray resonate with the recruits?
Slim
That's not the point. Look at outcomes. Whether it's warfighting, engineering, or building a winning team it's all about effects.
Fact is, when Al stepped down and Hank took over the flow of top talent dried up. Effects.
And the fact is, rather than sign with Marquette that talent started signing with DePaul. Maybe Ray Meyer paid better or simply had a better schtick. But the outcome was that top Chicago talent started signing with Ray Meyer and not Hank Raymonds.
By all accounts Hank was a real gentleman. But Marquette's fall from the pinnacle of college basketball happened on his watch. Because of him or despite him Marquette went from being the National Champion to out of the picture completely.
Hank Raymonds was a terrible decision for the University.
Imagine what would have been had Buck Raynor hired Cool Hand Luke. Marquette's standing as a Blue Blood challenging for National Championships would have continued.
About the only similarity between Hank and Crum was they both paced the sidelines with the program rolled up in one hand. Crum went to Final Fours and won Championships. Hank did neither.
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How the hell did Ray resonate with the recruits?
Actually it was Ray's son Joey who moved DePaul into the vacuum created by Al's retirement. He was Ray's lead (only?) recruiter. If Al had still been around my guess Joey wouldn't have had the balls to even call Aguirre or Cummings. But vacuums get filled and Joey and DePaul were in the right place at the right time.
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Scott Hunter
Oct 28, 1973
The Packers (2-2-2) travel to Tiger Stadium to take on the Lions (1-4-1). The teams had played to a 13-13 draw back in Sept.
Vegas had the game as a pick 'em.
Scott Hunter has a game to remember: 1/10 for -4 yards. Don't forget the interception and two fumbles. Let's not bring up the sacks.
Jimmy Del Gaizo comes off the bench and throws for 33 yards in the second half. All for naught as the Lions cover the spread 34-0.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/bf/36/6ebf369bad73020bffe256c53bf9c1a3.jpg)
How do Lynn Dickey and Chester the Molester not get a mention?
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You can beat our Packers, but you can’t lick our Dickey
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Although I still think the best place to put an arena would have been on the Children's Memorial Hospital property that since has been sold and will soon be an apartments/retail extravaganza, I did not know about the situation regarding the area you talk about here. Certainly intriguing, and if it really is within walking distance it would be better than being near McCormick Place IMHO.
Depaul's "problem" is they are in a very expensive neighborhood. A tear-down is $1.5 million. Decent homes are $2 to $3 million.
So Lincon yards (the old Finkl steel) is a billion-dollar project. The new apartment complex on the Children Hospital ground is several hundred million dollars.
For Depaul to put their arena at Finkl or the Children's hospital would cost more than their endowment.
And then there is the pushback from the neighborhood.
Lincoln Yards was going to build a soccer stadium seating about 15,000 just north of the Home Depot on North Ave (Ricketts was going buy a USSL franchise to put in it). The neighborhood went wild and marshaled their aldermen to kill it (Lincoln yards cover four wards and the aldermen from those wards banded together to kill it).
There is simply no possible way that a 10,000 to 15,000 seats arena was going to get zoning on Lincoln and Fullerton. And I think a stadium on the Finkl property would have met the same fate.
So it is nice to talk about the "what if" and say DePaul blew it. That's being lazy and ignorant. They were never ever ever going to get a stadium in either location, no matter how much they had.
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This is not true, they were offered the Finkl Steelyards area which is walking distance from campus. It was a once in a generation opportunity to buy a large chunk of prime real estate on the river, with amazing views of the city, and walking distance to campus and they declined. DePaul is the worst run school in the country if you ask me and I graduated there with my Master's.
They were never "offered" Finkl. They were asked to bid on it. Finkl is private property, no one was "giving it" to Depaul. And as I noted above, Sterling Bay is sinking $1 billion into the Lincoln Yards project. That is larger than DePaul's endowment. They were never getting it.
And Depaul is not one of the worst run schools in the country. Actually it is one of the better run major universities in the country.
Simple metric. Most universities are poorly run and they wind up killing the neighborhood they are in. Ever been to Hyde Park, Cambridge or New Haven. They are not good neighborhoods. (Northwestern is another well-run university)
But I get it, everyone here is lazy and judges a school by only one criterion, its win-loss in the Big East. Certainly that is how MU is judged.
By this logic, you probably think the ivy league is a collection of crappy schools because their basketball teams are not very good D1 programs.
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The CMH site plans were being developed 10+ years ago, when we lived 2 blocks away. Besides being uber-expensive like you said, I’m not sure how DePaul could have looked that far in the future.
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Did someone mention Henry Finkel?
https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_665109
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But I get it, everyone here is lazy
Yep, everyone is lazy except Smuggles. All hail Smuggles, the only hard-working Scooper!
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Oct 28, 1973
The Packers (2-2-2) travel to Tiger Stadium to take on the Lions (1-4-1). The teams had played to a 13-13 draw back in Sept.
Vegas had the game as a pick 'em.
Scott Hunter has a game to remember: 1/10 for -4 yards. Don't forget the interception and two fumbles. Let's not bring up the sacks.
Jimmy Del Gaizo comes off the bench and throws for 33 yards in the second half. All for naught as the Lions cover the spread 34-0.
Jerry Tagge?
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Did someone mention Henry Finkel?
https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_665109
I believe he is now known as Lt. Einhorn
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I believe he is now known as Lt. Einhorn
Classic
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Depaul's "problem" is they are in a very expensive neighborhood. A tear-down is $1.5 million. Decent homes are $2 to $3 million.
So Lincon yards (the old Finkl steel) is a billion-dollar project. The new apartment complex on the Children Hospital ground is several hundred million dollars.
For Depaul to put their arena at Finkl or the Children's hospital would cost more than their endowment.
And then there is the pushback from the neighborhood.
Lincoln Yards was going to build a soccer stadium seating about 15,000 just north of the Home Depot on North Ave (Ricketts was going buy a USSL franchise to put in it). The neighborhood went wild and marshaled their aldermen to kill it (Lincoln yards cover four wards and the aldermen from those wards banded together to kill it).
There is simply no possible way that a 10,000 to 15,000 seats arena was going to get zoning on Lincoln and Fullerton. And I think a stadium on the Finkl property would have met the same fate.
So it is nice to talk about the "what if" and say DePaul blew it. That's being lazy and ignorant. They were never ever ever going to get a stadium in either location, no matter how much they had.
From what I heard, they were offered a deal very similar to the wintrust arena deal by Sterling Bay, they desperately wanted a local connection to the area to appease the RANCH community. They weren't going to buy the whole development. They would be an anchor tenant of the arena in the lincoln yards. They still don't have any anchor tenants after Amazon and the new soccer team didn't work out. This was all before the wintrust deal. DePaul is most definitely a terribly run school in my opinion, you are free to have your own opinion. The AD and athletic department is just the tip of the iceberg of the overall terribleness of DePaul. It's fallen far in just like 15-20 years. It used to be a pretty solid place with a good reputation. It's all sullied now.
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Simple metric. Most universities are poorly run and they wind up killing the neighborhood they are in. Ever been to Hyde Park, Cambridge or New Haven. They are not good neighborhoods.
Hold on.
Are you seriously saying that poorly run universities "kill" the neighborhoods in which they are located? That is really an odd statement. So you think that Chicago, Yale and Harvard are "poorly run" because their respective neighborhoods suck, yet all of them are considered among the best universities in the world today. And then you have the opposite, schools like Barat College. They obviously must have been well run, they were in the middle of beautiful Lake Forest!!! Yet they closed...
I have no idea if DePaul is poorly run or not. But I do know that the fact that Lincoln Park is nice has nothing to do with it.
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They were never "offered" Finkl. They were asked to bid on it. Finkl is private property, no one was "giving it" to Depaul. And as I noted above, Sterling Bay is sinking $1 billion into the Lincoln Yards project. That is larger than DePaul's endowment. They were never getting it.
And Depaul is not one of the worst run schools in the country. Actually it is one of the better run major universities in the country.
Simple metric. Most universities are poorly run and they wind up killing the neighborhood they are in. Ever been to Hyde Park, Cambridge or New Haven. They are not good neighborhoods. (Northwestern is another well-run university)
But I get it, everyone here is lazy and judges a school by only one criterion, its win-loss in the Big East. Certainly that is how MU is judged.
By this logic, you probably think the ivy league is a collection of crappy schools because their basketball teams are not very good D1 programs.
What are you talking about? Hyde park is just fine. It's no Lincoln Park or Gold Coast etc but it's just fine.
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For those that know, what were DePaul's options when they made the hop to Rosemont?
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Hold on.
Are you seriously saying that poorly run universities "kill" the neighborhoods in which they are located? That is really an odd statement. So you think that Chicago, Yale and Harvard are "poorly run" because their respective neighborhoods suck, yet all of them are considered among the best universities in the world today. And then you have the opposite, schools like Barat College. They obviously must have been well run, they were in the middle of beautiful Lake Forest!!! Yet they closed...
I have no idea if DePaul is poorly run or not. But I do know that the fact that Lincoln Park is nice has nothing to do with it.
Yes, New Haven is a hell hole but in the couple of times in was in Cambridge, at least immediately around the Harvard campus, it seemed pretty nice.
Princeton, now that's a neighborhood and whole town that sucks.
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Yes, New Haven is a hell hole but in the couple of times in was in Cambridge, at least immediately around the Harvard campus, it seemed pretty nice.
Princeton, now that's a neighborhood and whole town that sucks.
You're wrong about New Haven.
I'm there a few times a week.
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The neighborhood right around Yale was always pretty nice. I haven't been there in quite a few years but I'll defer to somebody who knows -- MUFiC.
In that way, Yale/New Haven could be similar to MU/Milwaukee.
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You are not wrong. I also think Al was asked who should take over for him and Hank was his choice. They were going to listen to Al.
No. At the time Al said: "My only regret is Hank's not coming with me". If he didn't say it publically, I know he said it privately.
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No. At the time Al said: "My only regret is Hank's not coming with me". If he didn't say it publically, I know he said it privately.
Those can be two different things. He could have wanted him to leave, too, but also asked who should replace him in the event he wasn’t leaving. Not sure how those are inconsistent.
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The neighborhood right around Yale was always pretty nice. I haven't been there in quite a few years but I'll defer to somebody who knows -- MUFiC.
In that way, Yale/New Haven could be similar to MU/Milwaukee.
MU82 - You won't recognize the city you remember. New Haven is a hot city and growing.
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MU82 - You won't recognize the city you remember. New Haven is a hot city and growing.
Great to hear. Last time I was in New Haven it was bad news, a lot of crime and depressed economy. Had one of the worst crime rates in the state back then. At one point it was one of America’s most dangerous cities lost, but that was a few years back. Hope it has gotten better.
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Yes, New Haven is a hell hole
This isn’t anywhere close to reality. Also the whole notion that universities, the permanent residents of neighborhoods and cities, are the cause of wealth and urban challenges is silly. Even when New Haven had higher crime and less job momentum outside of school employment, it was not Yale’s fault.
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MU82 - You won't recognize the city you remember. New Haven is a hot city and growing.
Thanks for the info, MUFiC.
My dad worked at Olin in New Haven, and we went to the city fairly often to do stuff. My cousin managed the theater right on the square there; they used to have artsy flicks. I want to say it was called the York, but I might be mistaken. I was a big New Haven Nighthawks fan, went to many games. I even attended a few Giants home games at Yale Bowl the 2 years Yankee Stadium was being redone - saw the Jets beat the Giants in the first regular-season NFL game ever decided in OT.
Always enjoyed my time in New Haven, and it sounds like I'd enjoy it a lot more now.
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Thanks for the info, MUFiC.
My dad worked at Olin in New Haven, and we went to the city fairly often to do stuff. My cousin managed the theater right on the square there; they used to have artsy flicks. I want to say it was called the York, but I might be mistaken. I was a big New Haven Nighthawks fan, went to many games. I even attended a few Giants home games at Yale Bowl the 2 years Yankee Stadium was being redone - saw the Jets beat the Giants in the first regular-season NFL game ever decided in OT.
Always enjoyed my time in New Haven, and it sounds like I'd enjoy it a lot more now.
The Olin site and the neighboring Winchester Arms factory have been remodeled to upscale apartments and biomedical research labs. I believe the John Wayne statue is still there. The buildings are directly on the Farmington Canal trail. The trail is paved and runs from New Haven to Northhampton, Mass although there are still portions that are incomplete and pending including two blocks in New Haven that will take the trail to the waterfront and the brand new New Haven Boathouse.
Big changes at Yale Bowl. The installed artificial turf over the summer so for the first time in 105 years there will be no grass. They are supposed to put an inflatable dome over it also so they can use the bowl for other sports after football season.
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Cambridge, at least immediately around the Harvard campus, it seemed pretty nice.
HBS is on the other side of the river near the stadium. That is not a nice area.
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My cousin managed the theater right on the square there; they used to have artsy flicks.
Is this code?
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Is this code?
Yes. It's top-secret military code for the theater having once typically aired art-house movies.
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In 2011, New Haven was rated the 7th most dangerous city in the United States per FBI crime data.
In just released data, now 92nd most dangerous. That’s a big improvement in a short amount of years. Good for them.
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In 2011, New Haven was rated the 7th most dangerous city in the United States per FBI crime data.
In just released data, now 92nd most dangerous. That’s a big improvement in a short amount of years. Good for them.
New Haven is 1 small and 2 very partitioned. So even in that period the violence was hyper localized. IMO it would have been more likely for an MU student to see crime than the Yale student. On top of that, Yale is right downtown so that comment includes the business/center of the city. So while New Haven received that moniker, it was really 2-3 neighborhoods where the improvement was needed. So mayor/chief of police changed and it improved. The former new haven chief of police is an amazing guy who embodies cura personalis.
Edit: here is a link to an npr interview with him. Starts as news of a situation, then becomes about his life.
https://www.wnpr.org/post/departing-new-haven-police-chief-speaks-ministry-law-enforcement (https://www.wnpr.org/post/departing-new-haven-police-chief-speaks-ministry-law-enforcement)
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New Haven is 1 small and 2 very partitioned. So even in that period the violence was hyper localized. IMO it would have been more likely for an MU student to see crime than the Yale student. On top of that, Yale is right downtown so that comment includes the business/center of the city. So while New Haven received that moniker, it was really 2-3 neighborhoods where the improvement was needed. So mayor/chief of police changed and it improved. The former new haven chief of police is an amazing guy who embodies cura personalis.
Edit: here is a link to an npr interview with him. Starts as news of a situation, then becomes about his life.
https://www.wnpr.org/post/departing-new-haven-police-chief-speaks-ministry-law-enforcement (https://www.wnpr.org/post/departing-new-haven-police-chief-speaks-ministry-law-enforcement)
Milwaukee is 4th most dangerous
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Milwaukee is 4th most dangerous
Ok - I’m sure you can find out where they were in 2011 as well. My point is summed up by the quote below...which is what I was sharing about the new haven example you keep bringing up in this thread.
The FBI warns against simplistic analyses of its local crime data because the factors affecting crime rates are so complex and vary by area. “Valid assessments are possible only with careful study and analysis of the range of unique conditions affecting each local law enforcement jurisdiction,” reads the warning that greets every visitor to the Bureau’s website where the statistics are compiled.
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Ok - I’m sure you can find out where they were in 2011 as well. My point is summed up by the quote below...which is what I was sharing about the new haven example you keep bringing up in this thread.
The FBI warns against simplistic analyses of its local crime data because the factors affecting crime rates are so complex and vary by area. “Valid assessments are possible only with careful study and analysis of the range of unique conditions affecting each local law enforcement jurisdiction,” reads the warning that greets every visitor to the Bureau’s website where the statistics are compiled.
I was agreeing with you that a MU student statistically has a greater chance to be a victim of crime based purely on the data. I’m glad New Haven has improved, last I had been there it was not good, but quite sometime ago. Good for them
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I was agreeing with you that a MU student statistically has a greater chance to be a victim of crime based purely on the data. I’m glad New Haven has improved, last I had been there it was not good, but quite sometime ago. Good for them
Crime rates in and around campus have plummeted since MUPD became a real police force. Looks like the word is out that it's just about the worst place in Milwaukee to commit a crime with two separate police forces patrolling the area.
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Crime rates in and around campus have plummeted since MUPD became a real police force. Looks like the word is out that it's just about the worst place in Milwaukee to commit a crime with two separate police forces patrolling the area.
A buddy of mine was ticketed by one of Harold Brier's Finest for jaywalking.
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A buddy of mine was ticketed by one of Harold Brier's Finest for jaywalking.
That was a huge stereotype back in the day, but it's literally decades since I have heard that trope brought up.
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That was a huge stereotype back in the day, but it's literally decades since I have heard that trope brought up.
Call it what you will but Mike Wolfe was cited for jaywalking WI Ave. $5 fine.
Wolfie went on to become an attorney. I can only hope his run-in with the law set him on the path of true justice which resulted in his becoming an officer of the court.
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Call it what you will but Mike Wolfe was cited for jaywalking WI Ave. $5 fine.
Wolfie went on to become an attorney. I can only hope his run-in with the law set him on the path of true justice which resulted in his becoming an officer of the court.
I didn't say it wasn't true. I was saying it doesn't happen anymore.
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That was a huge stereotype back in the day, but it's literally decades since I have heard that trope brought up.
The police did that usually the first week of the school year to set a tone. They called it a nuisance or quality of life enforcement to give drivers access.
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I remember that the MPD Chief, Harold Brier, was notorious. And God help you if you were black or Hispanic.
Milwaukee was one of America's most segregated cities back in the day.
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I remember that the MPD Chief, Harold Brier, was notorious. And God help you if you were black or Hispanic.
Milwaukee was one of America's most segregated cities back in the day.
Still is.
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Still is.
We helped a parish on the south side. I recall the Monsignor telling us his funerals were in English and his baptisms were in Spanish.
That was the beginning of the era when Milwaukee's industrial base was decimated.
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The police did that usually the first week of the school year to set a tone. They called it a nuisance or quality of life enforcement to give drivers access.
With the improvements to WI Avenue and the barriers along the median jaywalking is no longer an option. Lord knows I did it plenty of times in my day.
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New Haven is 1 small and 2 very partitioned. So even in that period the violence was hyper localized. IMO it would have been more likely for an MU student to see crime than the Yale student. On top of that, Yale is right downtown so that comment includes the business/center of the city. So while New Haven received that moniker, it was really 2-3 neighborhoods where the improvement was needed. So mayor/chief of police changed and it improved. The former new haven chief of police is an amazing guy who embodies cura personalis.
Edit: here is a link to an npr interview with him. Starts as news of a situation, then becomes about his life.
https://www.wnpr.org/post/departing-new-haven-police-chief-speaks-ministry-law-enforcement (https://www.wnpr.org/post/departing-new-haven-police-chief-speaks-ministry-law-enforcement)
New Haven is 1 small - New Haven is only 20 square miles. Most of the cities on the FBI list it's compared to are 200 to 300 square miles and it's not really a fair comparison.
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With the improvements to WI Avenue and the barriers along the median jaywalking is no longer an option. Lord knows I did it plenty of times in my day.
Snow covered streets in Milwaukee had the Men of McCormick 8 skitching on the backs of city buses on WI Avenue. Bellies full of beer and a fool's courage but it was great fun.
The best was to come down the hill from 18th towards the lake. You could slide for at least a block.
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Call it what you will but Mike Wolfe was cited for jaywalking WI Ave. $5 fine.
Wolfie went on to become an attorney. I can only hope his run-in with the law set him on the path of true justice which resulted in his becoming an officer of the court.
My roommate.
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My roommate.
Marty??
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Marty??
No, 7 of us guys lived behind the Rec. Wolfie moved in senior year.
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No, 7 of us guys lived behind the Rec. Wolfie moved in senior year.
Jim,
Got it.
Wolfie is a great guy. Haven't talked to him in years. Tell him he never returned Neil Young Decade.
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DePaul sucks