Womens Soccer Championship.

[RJax55]

Now those who are put off by the team's public displays are sexist and don't want strong women?
What gibberish. These women have been and are role models for my daughters and millions of young ladies. I would expect better representation for the country and hope for good examples on how to act in the public eye. Why can't we just be proud of their accomplishments without the crudity and politics. There is enough of that crap everywhere else.

I'm a casual observer, but I thought these ladies represented themselves and the U.S. perfectly fine.

[tower912]

Made me proud.   

[WellsstreetWanderer]

If that is where you set the bar I have no quarrel.  What American was not proud of their on pitch performances.

[tower912]

I saw the world's best celebrating success in creative ways.  Personally liked the polite golf clap the best, a sarcastic response to their critics. 

[The Sultan]

Now those who are put off by the team's public displays are sexist and don't want strong women?

For the most part, yes.

What gibberish. These women have been and are role models for my daughters and millions of young ladies. I would expect better representation for the country and hope for good examples on how to act in the public eye.

They were great both on the pitch and off.

Why can't we just be proud of their accomplishments without the crudity and politics. There is enough of that crap everywhere else.

So why should they be exempt from that?  Sports and politics have been intertwined forever.

[tower912]

I think about some of the elaborate touchdown celebrations in the NFL.   Particularly ironic when you just cut the lead to 31-14.    I think about the celebrations in men's soccer.    I think about the flexing that goes on when a particularly vicious dunk is one of 30 baskets scored in a game.    I think about the elaborate handshakes in rituals in a dugout after a home run.     Then I think about how the best women's soccer team in the world celebrated their 26 goals (most ever) en route to a World Cup in which they never trailed.   And I think...'meh.   Why is everybody getting their knickers in a twist?'     And then I decide the problem must reside in the hearts of those getting upset.   

[MU82]

I think about some of the elaborate touchdown celebrations in the NFL.   Particularly ironic when you just cut the lead to 31-14.    I think about the celebrations in men's soccer.    I think about the flexing that goes on when a particularly vicious dunk is one of 30 baskets scored in a game.    I think about the elaborate handshakes in rituals in a dugout after a home run.     Then I think about how the best women's soccer team in the world celebrated their 26 goals (most ever) en route to a World Cup in which they never trailed.   And I think...'meh.   Why is everybody getting their knickers in a twist?'     And then I decide the problem must reside in the hearts of those getting upset.

This.

Go Rapinoe!

[CTWarrior]

I think about some of the elaborate touchdown celebrations in the NFL.   Particularly ironic when you just cut the lead to 31-14.    I think about the celebrations in men's soccer.    I think about the flexing that goes on when a particularly vicious dunk is one of 30 baskets scored in a game.    I think about the elaborate handshakes in rituals in a dugout after a home run.     Then I think about how the best women's soccer team in the world celebrated their 26 goals (most ever) en route to a World Cup in which they never trailed.   And I think...'meh.   Why is everybody getting their knickers in a twist?'     And then I decide the problem must reside in the hearts of those getting upset.

I do not like soccer and did not watch one second of the tournament and didn't care at all whether we won.  The people I do know who love soccer are the people I work with in Europe and South America (male and female) and they didn't watch any of it and didn't care, either.  During the men's world cup people were going into conference rooms with telepresence and hooking into the feed of South Korea vs. Nigeria or whatever to watch the games, but I didn't hear a peep about the women's world cup.

FWIW, I have no trouble with winning by 13-0.  It is a tournament where goal differential can matter after all, and doing your best shouldn't be a crime.  I do have a problem with elaborate, over the top celebrations when you're ahead 9-0, though.  No need to rub it in.  As mentioned above I have the same problems when men playing the sports I love do it.  I had parents and coaches browbeat sportsmanship into me since I was a little kid.  "Act like you've been there before.  How would you like it if your nose was rubbed in it like that."  Of course I also had a coach tell me, when I had the audacity to wear tube socks with stripes that were different from our team colors during a basketball practice, to never do it again because I "wasn't playing for the Puerto Rican Olympic team."  So it was a different time in both good and bad ways.

I realize that world has passed me by and I know idiots from my generation like Mark Gastineau did stupid stuff that really got it rolling.  I understand it, but don't like it.  You hear all the time about the evils of disrespect of others nowadays (and rightfully so) that it is weird to me that we often encourage/applaud it on our sports fields.

[shoothoops]

19 page thread. Can't answer every post but I can pick out a few things I read to offer my two cents. In no order:

1) I have read some say the men's team is better so why do the women deserve equal pay etc...But many have missed a key point: "Entertainment Value."

Take women's tennis. Many people who own and run some tournaments, sponsors, fans, players, believe the women's game offers high entertainment value. Would the women defeat the men? Nope. But that isn't what it's about. Some still have trouble understanding and appreciating women's sports as its own separate entity.  Those that know tennis know the top women's players would not defeat even the top few hundred men's players. Or in soccer, the Boys 16's teams have defeated the women's national team with regularity over the years in privately held matches. Many believe the U.S. women's soccer team etc...has brought high entertainment value over a long period of time to warrant better pay.

2) Popularity, ratings etc...any World Cup etc...will get higher ratings men or women in the U.S. if it is played in a U.S. friendly time zone.

3) Celebrations. The leash is deservedly longer for women because they have been suppressed for a very long time in many ways. To soccer die hards, choreographed late goal celebrations in a 13-0 type of win isn't great etiquette. It's like running up the score in American football. The difference is running up the score in American football has been going on for a very long time. Some say run it up or play defense or stop the team. Others say running up score is not good etiquette etc...but this was a new thing for the women this year. If it had been going on for years and decades then maybe there is a bigger discussion.  Also, there are unfortunately some sexist and misogynistic men out there that are threatened by strong female personalities and/or demonstrative displays of strength.

The Women's World Cup was great for everyone, especially women and young females, but really everyone.  I believe one of the better ways to capitalize and build a future successful pro league in the U.S. is to get MLS teams to also have a women's team and share resources. This approach has had some success in Europe recently where 7 of the 8 women's quarterfinalists were European countries for the first time ever. (Also it has worked well in some markets that share NFL resources with MLS.)

[Billy Hoyle]

The Women's World Cup was great for everyone, especially women and young females, but really everyone.  I believe one of the better ways to capitalize and build a future successful pro league in the U.S. is to get MLS teams to also have a women's team and share resources. This approach has had some success in Europe recently where 7 of the 8 women's quarterfinalists were European countries for the first time ever. (Also it has worked well in some markets that share NFL resources with MLS.)

Portland is a perfect example of this. The Timbers and Thorns are owned by the same individual and operated nearly equally in terms of resources. It shows in the record. Houston is also owned by the same group that owns the MLS team.

[Lennys Tap]

I do not like soccer and did not watch one second of the tournament and didn't care at all whether we won.  The people I do know who love soccer are the people I work with in Europe and South America (male and female) and they didn't watch any of it and didn't care, either.  During the men's world cup people were going into conference rooms with telepresence and hooking into the feed of South Korea vs. Nigeria or whatever to watch the games, but I didn't hear a peep about the women's world cup.

FWIW, I have no trouble with winning by 13-0.  It is a tournament where goal differential can matter after all, and doing your best shouldn't be a crime.  I do have a problem with elaborate, over the top celebrations when you're ahead 9-0, though.  No need to rub it in.  As mentioned above I have the same problems when men playing the sports I love do it.  I had parents and coaches browbeat sportsmanship into me since I was a little kid.  "Act like you've been there before.  How would you like it if your nose was rubbed in it like that."  Of course I also had a coach tell me, when I had the audacity to wear tube socks with stripes that were different from our team colors during a basketball practice, to never do it again because I "wasn't playing for the Puerto Rican Olympic team."  So it was a different time in both good and bad ways.

I realize that world has passed me by and I know idiots from my generation like Mark Gastineau did stupid stuff that really got it rolling.  I understand it, but don't like it.  You hear all the time about the evils of disrespect of others nowadays (and rightfully so) that it is weird to me that we often encourage/applaud it on our sports fields.

I watched and cheered some. Other than that, my feelings exactly.

[tower912]

Watching the Atl DC game yesterday.    Watched the celebrations after the goals in a MLS game.    Compared them to the celebrations in the world cup.    Wondered what the big deal was.

[Jockey]

Watching the Atl DC game yesterday.    Watched the celebrations after the goals in a MLS game.    Compared them to the celebrations in the world cup.    Wondered what the big deal was.

Just think of who is doing the complaining. That explains everything.

[JWags85]

Watching the Atl DC game yesterday.    Watched the celebrations after the goals in a MLS game.    Compared them to the celebrations in the world cup.    Wondered what the big deal was.

If Rapinoe had taken and missed one of her penalties in the manner that Martinez did yesterday, that section of the internet may have imploded.

[CTWarrior]

Watching the Atl DC game yesterday.    Watched the celebrations after the goals in a MLS game.    Compared them to the celebrations in the world cup.    Wondered what the big deal was.

Did one of the teams score to go ahead 9-0 and celebrate like crazy?  I'm guessing no.  Call anyone complaining an old fogey or whatever all you want, there is no reason other than douchebaggery to rub it in when you are annihilating a vastly inferior team and the game has long ago been decided.  That's true if it is a 5 year old t-ball game or an international competition.  I honestly don't get the defense of it.

[Its DJOver]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTNIWbGmzGU

How many of their tongue out dunks, alley oops, or no look passes were done after the result was no longer in doubt?  How much trash was talked?  How much were they criticized?  How much were they celebrated?

Extremely dominant group of players going out there and destroying their vastly inferior competition, and having fun with their teammates while doing it.  Which team did I just describe?

[Jockey]

Did one of the teams score to go ahead 9-0 and celebrate like crazy?  I'm guessing no.  Call anyone complaining an old fogey or whatever all you want, there is no reason other than douchebaggery to rub it in when you are annihilating a vastly inferior team and the game has long ago been decided.  That's true if it is a 5 year old t-ball game or an international competition.  I honestly don't get the defense of it.

When the Yankees are ahead 10-0 in a game, should all batters be told to leave the bat on their shoulders and just strikeout?

[CTWarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTNIWbGmzGU

How many of their tongue out dunks, alley oops, or no look passes were done after the result was no longer in doubt?  How much trash was talked?  How much were they criticized?  How much were they celebrated?

Extremely dominant group of players going out there and destroying their vastly inferior competition, and having fun with their teammates while doing it.  Which team did I just describe?

Didn't like that, either.

[Its DJOver]

Didn't like that, either.

So if you know that you're going to win, what is the correct amount to win by?  If you're up by 20 in bball or 4 in soccer do you just take shot clock violations/ pass the ball around?  Is it not the entertainers job to entertain?

[CTWarrior]

When the Yankees are ahead 10-0 in a game, should all batters be told to leave the bat on their shoulders and just strikeout?

I have no complaint about them scoring goals when ahead 10-0 and I said that earlier.  Just the celebration.  (10-0 is not insurmountable in baseball by the way.  I've seen my Red Sox blow a 10-0 6th inning lead.  A 10-0 lead in soccer is akin to maybe 30-0 in baseball.  Would you think it was OK if someone hit a 7th inning home run to put their team up 30-0 and jumped around and showed off for the crowd like that?  People went ballistic about the bat flip by Bautista to break a tie late in a do-or-die game and it wasn't 1/10th what the US did in a preliminary game to go up 9-0).  As I said, I never watched the tournament.  Saw the celebration to put them up 9-0 on the news and was very turned off by it, as was whatever local newscaster that was showing it.  I understand others feel differently, but for the life of me I can't understand why someone would behave that way.

[tower912]

You are opposed to gratuitous, over the top celebrations in any blow out.   That is a fair position to take.   

[JWags85]

Did one of the teams score to go ahead 9-0 and celebrate like crazy?  I'm guessing no.  Call anyone complaining an old fogey or whatever all you want, there is no reason other than douchebaggery to rub it in when you are annihilating a vastly inferior team and the game has long ago been decided.  That's true if it is a 5 year old t-ball game or an international competition.  I honestly don't get the defense of it.

Its the first game of a new WC.  Rapinoe, for all of her press, was basically out of the USWNT discussion for a long stretch in between World Cups.  She had some injury issues and she's well beyond her prime.  There was likely some jubilation to not only be back in the WC with the national team but scoring goals, hers put them up 9-0.

And then at 11-0, you have Mal Pugh, in her first World Cup, scoring a goal and fulfilling a childhood dream.  So criticizing a 21 year old on the biggest stage in the sport celebrating her biggest moment is lame to me.  Morgan and Lloyd's later goals weren't wildly celebrated, just a high five or two.

People act like they were power sliding and Ronaldo jump-celebrating every goal.  Also, saying Bautista's bat flip was 1/10th of a US goal celebration is INSANITY.  They ran to the sideline and posed/jumped a bit.  Bautista didn't just pimp, watch it, or bat flip.  He glared, spiked his bat defiantly, and gesticulated.  Compared to most baseball reactions, it was WAYY over the top (and amazing).  If it wasn't 9-0, their celebration wouldn't even merit discussion as over the top.

I bet you drool with pride over Barry Sanders simply handing the ball to the ref. 

[tower912]

I bet you drool with pride over Barry Sanders simply handing the ball to the ref. 

I did when he was THE reason to watch a Lion's game.

[CTWarrior]

So if you know that you're going to win, what is the correct amount to win by?  If you're up by 20 in bball or 4 in soccer do you just take shot clock violations/ pass the ball around?  Is it not the entertainers job to entertain?

My apologies, here.  I didn't even look at the video, since it was blocked when I tried.  Based on your description, I assumed it showed the US team trash talking teams against whom they were up by 40 or something, so I said I didn't like that, either.  IIRC correctly, Barkley may have some of that.  (Weirdly, I find Barkley amusing)  If it was just them scoring in spectacular ways in an already decided game, I'd have less of a problem with that. 

Most coaches empty the bench when the game is a blow out which generally helps hold down the romp.  In the case of the dream team, the bench was not really much different than the starters, so emptying the bench just meant you had fresher bodies to stomp the other team with.  In soccer there isn't much you can do to empty the bench, so it is difficult to avoid running up the score unless you want to play keep away.  Consequently, I understand the margin is going to be big.  You don't have to celebrate like you scored the go ahead goal in an elimination game every time you tack on another meaningless goal in a blowout, though.

[CTWarrior]

You are opposed to gratuitous, over the top celebrations in any blow out.   That is a fair position to take.

Yup, that is basically it.