wojo extended for 5 years

[Goose]

dgies9156

Sadly, I believe your feelings are not completely shared by the university. I think the road to becoming a big time program has gotten a lot longer. There are folks on here that can stomach another five years of maintaining, and/or rebuilding, and seeing what the program looks like. Time will tell if MU made the right decision. I believe, they are 100% confident that whatever they do, will be accepted by 95+% of the fan base. They have no need to make radical decisions, which is a good thing because I do not believe they one person capable of making an intelligent basketball related decision.

Lastly, I agree with your entire post.

[muguru]

Really?  So Head Coach Guru, are you going to keep the player on the team that is literally stealing from the other players?

Tell us again about how you KNOW things that others don't.

This is so laughable...I DO get info from time to time from rock solid sources...I have been trying to get people to connect dots as to what happened with the Hauser's(because I do have ROCK SOLID) info about it, but everyone just dismisses it. Now you spit this out (Mayo stealing), like it's FACTUAL and yet, if I try to give out info(or others do) here, NO ONE believes it can possibly be true. Whatever, I don't give a sh*t. No wonder so many people leave this board.

[wyoMUfan]

Maybe already mentioned, but I think this move is less about Basketball results and more about culture/program building. Wojo and Markus Howard appear to be building a culture at Marquette. I'm struggling to explain, but i'm not on the court everyday to have that insight. It appears to me that Wojo coaches with alot of empathy (e.g. Matt Heldt speech) and team leaders like Markus Howard really buy into that. Millennials really buy into that approach, perhaps why Greg Elliott was so (apparently) happy with the team this year. If the players felt the sky was falling or they didn't like their environment more would have left.
I think Sam and Joey didn't want to be part of this experiment and took their talents elsewhere.
Let's see how it shakes out, culture is everything and if Wojo is on to something it may be the start of a special run.
anyway my 2 cents...my first reaction was WTF Marquette...?!?!?!?!

[MUBBau]

This is so laughable...I DO get info from time to time from rock solid sources...I have been trying to get people to connect dots as to what happened with the Hauser's(because I do have ROCK SOLID) info about it, but everyone just dismisses it. Now you spit this out (Mayo stealing), like it's FACTUAL and yet, if I try to give out info(or others do) here, NO ONE believes it can possibly be true. Whatever, I don't give a sh*t. No wonder so many people leave this board.

Are you giving people info or making them figure it out (connect the dots) on their own?

[muguru]

Are you giving people info or making them figure it out (connect the dots) on their own?

Well when I have posted stuff, people cry about "who's your source" etc. Like that's going to happen?? It's like nobody here believes, that other posters here actually have legit info, and I'm not sure why.

[Galway Eagle]

Well when I have posted stuff, people cry about "who's your source" etc. Like that's going to happen?? It's like nobody here believes, that other posters here actually have legit info, and I'm not sure why.

Because when 10 different people all have a legit source that are saying different things then how do we distinguish who's legit. Plus each source has its motives, let's say your source is golfing with daddy Hauser. That's cool but do you think his perspective is neutral or you're getting a spun story? Same with those who might be neighbors with Stan, probably getting a version spun for the Hausers to look soft.

[Cheeks]

dgies9156

Sadly, I believe your feelings are not completely shared by the university. I think the road to becoming a big time program has gotten a lot longer. There are folks on here that can stomach another five years of maintaining, and/or rebuilding, and seeing what the program looks like. Time will tell if MU made the right decision. I believe, they are 100% confident that whatever they do, will be accepted by 95+% of the fan base. They have no need to make radical decisions, which is a good thing because I do not believe they one person capable of making an intelligent basketball related decision.

Lastly, I agree with your entire post.

Impossible to prove a negative.  Time cannot prove it in my opinion.

If they make a change, who do they get? How can anyone know how the other person does?  They cannot...thus impossible to prove.  There will be endless opinions, but it truly is impossible because of the variables.  The same is true for the Hausers, if they stayed and it meant 2 or 3 players leaving and bad chemistry....are we better...worse?  No one knows these answers and cannot know with 100% certainty.

[Cheeks]

Well when I have posted stuff, people cry about "who's your source" etc. Like that's going to happen?? It's like nobody here believes, that other posters here actually have legit info, and I'm not sure why.

The fact you said you have a source on one hand, but at same time say questioned why Mayo was removed from the team is, quite frankly, at diametric odds involving logic and the laws of physics.  How do you square those?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is so laughable...I DO get info from time to time from rock solid sources...I have been trying to get people to connect dots as to what happened with the Hauser's(because I do have ROCK SOLID) info about it, but everyone just dismisses it. Now you spit this out (Mayo stealing), like it's FACTUAL and yet, if I try to give out info(or others do) here, NO ONE believes it can possibly be true. Whatever, I don't give a sh*t. No wonder so many people leave this board.

Well when I have posted stuff, people cry about "who's your source" etc. Like that's going to happen?? It's like nobody here believes, that other posters here actually have legit info, and I'm not sure why.

Because Guru, you don't have rock solid info on the Hauser situation. No one does other than maybe Sam, Joey, and the coaching staff....and each one of them would give you a very different answer even if they were being 100% truthful. So if the people directly involved can't agree on what happened, how could any of us know when at best we are getting info from 4th, 5th, and 6th hand sources?

[Billy Hoyle]

Really?  So Head Coach Guru, are you going to keep the player on the team that is literally stealing from the other players?

Tell us again about how you KNOW things that others don't.

Mayo is an example of a player who should have never been in an MU uniform representing our university.

I cannot speak on him stealing from teammates but there were plenty of other issues that most coaches would have kicked him off the team for, but not Buzz.

Vander as well.

The MU administration wants to be a top program, but not at the expense of doing harm to the reputation of the University (which happened under the previous staff). There is no more "win at all costs" attitude in Zilber Hall. It's win, but do it without putting the university's reputation at risk. Crean did that, Wojo is doing that, Deand did that, KO did that.

[Cheeks]

Please reread my post. I clearly referred to "one person" (OK, technically "on person") and clearly stated "I have forgotten who that was". Anyway, I just spent a fair amount of time to find the post but was unsuccessful.

I think you qualify as a person "who defend(s) Wojo no matter what" so perhaps you would answer my question. I respect your opinions although I do not always agree with them, so I am not trying to be difficult. Is my question not fair?

Understood and I am also not trying to be difficult.

I do not defend him no matter what and can provide examples where I don't. Including the day he was hired and to this day I am still concerned about what I said 5 years ago.  I just think when you say posters (plural) that just shrugged off the collapse, which is what it was, that isn't being fair or accurate.  I don't know a single person here that was happy or shrugged off the end of the season.  Now, there are people that took it in different degrees.  Iowa has a very similar collapse and lost games by 20 points and lost at home to Rutgers, etc.  We were losing close games, at the end, etc.  Got jobbed in the Big East tournament....but it was still a collapse.

I brought up in Jan and Feb guys playing too many minutes, maybe resting Markus more or even posing the question of sitting him due to an injury....of course that was wildly dismissed as absurd at the time.   

[dgies9156]

dgies9156

Sadly, I believe your feelings are not completely shared by the university. I think the road to becoming a big time program has gotten a lot longer. There are folks on here that can stomach another five years of maintaining, and/or rebuilding, and seeing what the program looks like.

Then I fear for what our university is becoming.

When we were a Blueblood, the basketball program did two things. First, it created visibility for what formerly was a local to regional Roman Catholic university in Milwaukee. It diversified the student body, attracted a new set of students and gave Marquette visibility in circles where I firmly believe it never would have been noticed otherwise.

Quite simply, "We aren't DePaul!"

Second, it brought in money -- lots of it. How much, I do not know. But having little Marquette at or near the top of the basketball world brought pride to our alumni and made it easier for the AMF to ask for more money -- and get it. We were a powerful small institution with a chip on our shoulder and it showed in everything we did.

Our student athletes haven't always been angels, I get it. But I would note, ahem, that in our Blue Blood era, all our players were graduated except two. The vast, vast majority have gone on to lead lives reflecting Men and Women For Others. People like Ulice Payne, Lloyd Walton, PhD and Jerry Homan DDS clearly are near the top of the list. It sometimes is harder now, since we have more competition, but the key is in choosing and vetting a coach as best we can. Gonzaga, Duke and Villanova all proved it can be done.

Excellence is not a sometimes thing. It has to be pervasive in everything you do. Talking about "hey, we're getting better," is a poor substitute for being an elite program.

[Cheeks]

Mayo is an example of a player who should have never been in an MU uniform representing our university.

100000000% agree.  Mind boggling

[Lennys Tap]

Understood and I am also not trying to be difficult.

I do not defend him no matter what and can provide examples where I don't. Including the day he was hired and to this day I am still concerned about what I said 5 years ago.  I just think when you say posters (plural) that just shrugged off the collapse, which is what it was, that isn't being fair or accurate.  I don't know a single person here that was happy or shrugged off the end of the season.  Now, there are people that took it in different degrees.  Iowa has a very similar collapse and lost games by 20 points and lost at home to Rutgers, etc.  We were losing close games, at the end, etc.  Got jobbed in the Big East tournament....but it was still a collapse.

I brought up in Jan and Feb guys playing too many minutes, maybe resting Markus more or even posing the question of sitting him due to an injury....of course that was wildly dismissed as absurd at the time.

I think this is fair. I don't think any MU fans totally shrugged off our late season collapse.

The other fair side of this same coin is that zero Marquette fans are rooting for the Warriors to lose because they don't think Wojo is the answer as a coach.

Let's agree that the nonsense from both sides should stop.

[Cheeks]

I'll ask again...name the true blueblood or elite programs.  There are very few and the differences are vast.  Does being a dominant program for 12 years make one a blueblood or elite?  Nope.  Decisions made decades ago put us on that tract away from that. 

There is one cold weather school that is a blueblood.  Michigan State.  What happens when Izzo retires?

There is only one private school that is a blueblood...Duke. 

Every other blue blood is from a P5 conference, public, warmer weather, large school, large alumni base, CONSISTENTLY performed decade after decade the last 30 to 40 years.

[Lennys Tap]

Mayo is an example of a player who should have never been in an MU uniform representing our university.

I cannot speak on him stealing from teammates but there were plenty of other issues that most coaches would have kicked him off the team for, but not Buzz.

Vander as well.

The MU administration wants to be a top program, but not at the expense of doing harm to the reputation of the University (which happened under the previous staff). There is no more "win at all costs" attitude in Zilber Hall. It's win, but do it without putting the university's reputation at risk. Crean did that, Wojo is doing that, Deand did that, KO did that.

Actually the guy who was stealing from teammates was Pat Hazel (Crean recruit).

I agree that Mayo didn't belong at Marquette, disagree on Vander.

Lot's of TC's guys who never should have been here, too. Hazel, "Manchild" Mathews, Mortenson, Amoroso and Mason come to mind off the top of my head. I'm sure there were others. Enough with the idea that Crean's recruits were all boy scouts, altar boys and honor students.

[Silent Verbal]

And that's fine, but that's not how it wa portrayed especially by Research Report....the irony in the name "research".

What I actually said is most people aren't buying that we've made "tremendous progress".  That's a ridiculous overstatement on MU's part considering we haven't won an NCAA game in the Wojo era and just lost 2 of our 3 best players to transfer (and possibly to our arch rival, to boot).  Even Wojo's most ardent supporters on here would likely balk at the words "tremendous progress".

My point was essentially the same as Oregon Warrior's.  Are fans commenting on Twitter just a half of a half of a half of those who actually watch Marquette basketball?  Yeah.  But the anti-Wojo crowd isn't limited to some small corner of the Internet.  Many people I've spoken with who care about MU ball are either frustrated or, worse, apathetic about the current state of the program.

I don't intend to stop watching Marquette games or attending as many as I can.  If I ever get to that point, it won't be out of anger, but apathy.  A few more mediocre seasons and I might stop being as excited for games as I once was, might choose to just stay home and watch on tv even though I could attend, etc.  I hope it never gets to that point, but I'm not sure how I'll feel if we have to endure another five years of this. 

[Lennys Tap]

What I actually said is most people aren't buying that we've made "tremendous progress".  That's a ridiculous overstatement on MU's part considering we haven't won an NCAA game in the Wojo era and just lost 2 of our 3 best players to transfer (and possibly to our arch rival, to boot).  Even Wojo's most ardent supporters on here would likely balk at the words "tremendous progress".

My point was essentially the same as Oregon Warrior's.  Are fans commenting on Twitter just a half of a half of a half of those who actually watch Marquette basketball?  Yeah.  But the anti-Wojo crowd isn't limited to some small corner of the Internet.  Many people I've spoken with who care about MU ball are either frustrated or, worse, apathetic about the current state of the program.

I don't intend to stop watching Marquette games or attending as many as I can.  If I ever get to that point, it won't be out of anger, but apathy.  A few more mediocre seasons and I might stop being as excited for games as I once was, might choose to just stay home and watch on tv even though I could attend, etc.  I hope it never gets to that point, but I'm not sure how I'll feel if we have to endure another five years of this.

I don't pretend to know what the comments or the "likes" on Twitter, Instagram, etc., mean.

I only can comment on what my friends and fellow alums are saying. Non scientific, anecdotal, etc., but the ones most enamored with Wojo are those who follow the team/program only a little. Those who are fervent fans are at least concerned that Wojo isn't the guy. Many are convinced of it. I'm in the concerned group - this year is very important.

[Goose]

I believe I have quite a good sample size of MU fans in my personal life and there is not much excitement/optimism regarding the program. Apathetic is probably the most common feeling with folks I know.

[Pakuni]

Well when I have posted stuff, people cry about "who's your source" etc. Like that's going to happen?? It's like nobody here believes, that other posters here actually have legit info, and I'm not sure why.

Are you new to Scoop?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What I actually said is most people aren't buying that we've made "tremendous progress".  That's a ridiculous overstatement on MU's part considering we haven't won an NCAA game in the Wojo era and just lost 2 of our 3 best players to transfer (and possibly to our arch rival, to boot).  Even Wojo's most ardent supporters on here would likely balk at the words "tremendous progress".

We've definitely made progress during the Wojo reign, that's inarguable. Whether or not it has been tremendous I suppose is a matter of opinion. If you want to spend time arguing vocabulary, go for it.

[NickelDimer]

I don't pretend to know what the comments or the "likes" on Twitter, Instagram, etc., mean.

I only can comment on what my friends and fellow alums are saying. Non scientific, anecdotal, etc., but the ones most enamored with Wojo are those who follow the team/program only a little. Those who are fervent fans are at least concerned that Wojo isn't the guy. Many are convinced of it. I'm in the concerned group - this year is very important.

Yep. I haven't talked to a single fan that thinks Wojo earned this is any way. Many understand (hope) it was done for recruiting optics.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yep. I haven't talked to a single fan that thinks Wojo earned this is any way. Many understand (hope) it was done for recruiting optics.

Who cares if he earned it? It's about what is best for the program.

[Billy Hoyle]

Actually the guy who was stealing from teammates was Pat Hazel (Crean recruit).

I agree that Mayo didn't belong at Marquette, disagree on Vander.

Lot's of TC's guys who never should have been here, too. Hazel, "Manchild" Mathews, Mortenson, Amoroso and Mason come to mind off the top of my head. I'm sure there were others. Enough with the idea that Crean's recruits were all boy scouts, altar boys and honor students.

Vander only due to what he did while at MU.

Hazel was sent on his way

Remember, all of those guys you mentioned during Crean were told to hit the road - zero tolerance. Brandon Bell was a model citizen before MU, he did something bad, and even though it hurt Crean to do it considering the relationship he had with the family, he made Brandon leave.

What did Mason do, other than think he was the second coming of Wade?

[NickelDimer]

Who cares if he earned it? It's about what is best for the program.

Ok? I'm commenting on the fan base's read on Wojo based on the fans I know