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Author Topic: Help on the way for 19/20?  (Read 74381 times)

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #250 on: April 26, 2019, 04:55:10 PM »
I don't understand your logic here at all.  The reason people want him fired is because they want to win and they think we aren't going to win with Wojo.  That is not the same as wanting him/MU to lose.  You can want him fired and still root for Marquette and hope you are wrong and I think most people who want him fired are in that boat.

I agree.  Thinking he’s not the one and rooting for him to fail are two concepts.  If folks are saying that, fine to call them out specifically. 

MUfan12

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #251 on: April 26, 2019, 05:53:16 PM »


Nah, play angry, hey?

Don't be dismayed, hey?

NickelDimer

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #252 on: April 26, 2019, 07:50:07 PM »
I think the point is that the most ardent wojo haters would rather see the team flop and recruiting flop this year to oust wojo rather than see the team be respectable enough to buy him another year. Nobody in their right mind is claiming that you are actually rooting against MU.
With exception of a couple of grossly irrational fans, no
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #253 on: April 26, 2019, 08:00:29 PM »
I don't understand your logic here at all.  The reason people want him fired is because they want to win and they think we aren't going to win with Wojo.  That is not the same as wanting him/MU to lose.  You can want him fired and still root for Marquette and hope you are wrong and I think most people who want him fired are in that boat.

Absolutely correct. I'm not one of the "Fire Wojo" group, but I don't for a minute think they want him/MU to lose. That's ridiculous.

Cheeks

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #254 on: April 26, 2019, 08:08:49 PM »
Because they want the best for their team. They’re not mutually exclusive. Even the most anti Wojo fans of Marquette would love nothing more than for him to suddenly become John Wooden and win multiple NCAA Championships. To think otherwise is silly

When some of those fans flat out say I hope we lose to get rid of him, that contradicts your claim.  You didn't say that, nor am I claiming you did.  There are fans that do.  Just as their are fans that wanted McCarthy and Packers to lose so he would get canned.  To think otherwise is silly.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #255 on: April 26, 2019, 08:11:20 PM »
A little help for you...here is the official definition of mediocre:

mediocre
[ mee-dee-oh-ker ]
|

adjective
of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate:
not satisfactory; poor; inferior:

So I think it's 100% fair to say, it's how one personally defines it. "not satisfactory" pretty much sums it up I'd say.

So making the tournament isn't good but mediocre, even though less than 20% of teams make it.  See, this is the problem.  I say making the NCAA tournament is good.  You call it mediocre....thus proving again that the definition you are using is ridiculous.

I didn't realize the NCAA tournament was accepting not good or bad teams, but merely mediocre teams....in fact, barely adequate.  Interesting....and we disagree.

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

tower912

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #256 on: April 26, 2019, 08:33:45 PM »
So making the tournament isn't good but mediocre, even though less than 20% of teams make it.  See, this is the problem.  I say making the NCAA tournament is good.  You call it mediocre....thus proving again that the definition you are using is ridiculous.

I didn't realize the NCAA tournament was accepting not good or bad teams, but merely mediocre teams....in fact, barely adequate.  Interesting....and we disagree.
A 24 win season is never mediocre. 
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Cheeks

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #257 on: April 26, 2019, 08:40:05 PM »
A 24 win season is never mediocre.

100% agree, but clearly not everyone defines things the same way.  Apparently it is barely adequate, thus mediocre.  I find that preposterous.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #258 on: April 26, 2019, 09:34:40 PM »
When some of those fans flat out say I hope we lose to get rid of him, that contradicts your claim.  You didn't say that, nor am I claiming you did.  There are fans that do.  Just as their are fans that wanted McCarthy and Packers to lose so he would get canned.  To think otherwise is silly.

Has someone said that? I remember one poster saying he hoped we lose during the last year of the Buzz era because it would force Buzz to sit Derrick and start Dawson, but I honestly don't remember anyone saying it during the Wojo era.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #259 on: April 26, 2019, 10:20:24 PM »
Has someone said that? I remember one poster saying he hoped we lose during the last year of the Buzz era because it would force Buzz to sit Derrick and start Dawson, but I honestly don't remember anyone saying it during the Wojo era.

Of course nobody has said it, buy if Chico says it often enough he'll call it a fact!

Herman Cain

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #260 on: April 26, 2019, 10:59:40 PM »
I don't understand your logic here at all.  The reason people want him fired is because they want to win and they think we aren't going to win with Wojo.  That is not the same as wanting him/MU to lose.  You can want him fired and still root for Marquette and hope you are wrong and I think most people who want him fired are in that boat.
I agree with this analysis.
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MU82

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #261 on: April 26, 2019, 11:05:49 PM »
When some of those fans flat out say I hope we lose to get rid of him, that contradicts your claim. 

chicos, you're gonna have to provide proof when you make such a claim. I do think there will be plenty of Scoopers screaming "I told you so" if Wojo fails, but that's not the same thing you are charging.

Maybe your memory is right, but if you're going to make such a wild accusation, you're obviously gonna get called on it, so you'd better be ready to provide evidence.
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Cheeks

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #262 on: April 26, 2019, 11:12:51 PM »
I think you guys need to reread what I said. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #263 on: April 27, 2019, 12:16:15 AM »
I think you guys need to reread what I said.

This is the only thing I am questioning.

When some of those fans flat out say I hope we lose to get rid of him, that contradicts your claim.  You didn't say that, nor am I claiming you did.  There are fans that do.

So are you saying that someone on scoop posted that? Or have you heard it off of scoop? Or are you just guessing that there are people who have flat out said this?
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brewcity77

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #264 on: April 27, 2019, 12:36:36 AM »
While I don't think anyone is saying that specifically, I do think there are fans rooting for Marquette but against Wojo. While it's contradictory on its face, I don't imagine they ever root for MU to lose in a game, but they want results that lead to his firing.
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bilsu

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #265 on: April 27, 2019, 03:32:43 AM »
A 24 win season is never mediocre.
It is if you are Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky or Kansas.

NickelDimer

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #266 on: April 27, 2019, 08:58:51 AM »
When some of those fans flat out say I hope we lose to get rid of him, that contradicts your claim.  You didn't say that, nor am I claiming you did.  There are fans that do.  Just as their are fans that wanted McCarthy and Packers to lose so he would get canned.  To think otherwise is silly.
I’d agree if there are those saying that plainly. I haven’t seen that. Otoh there are those that want him fired today, but if retained will root for him tomorrow
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 09:00:22 AM by NickelDimer »
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Cheeks

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #267 on: April 27, 2019, 09:47:30 AM »
I’d agree if there are those saying that plainly. I haven’t seen that. Otoh there are those that want him fired today, but if retained will root for him tomorrow

And with every loss will scream for more firing and with every win will be silent as church mice.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #268 on: April 27, 2019, 09:54:49 AM »
If you want him gone, and have categorically made up your mind he is not the guy and can never be the guy....there are a number that have publicly stated that here....then the only way to potential success as fast as possible is him leaving or being fired.  That means wanting him to fail because getting fired as soon as possible means having little success.... if you are so convinced he cannot be the guy, any bit of success only kicks the can down the road so people can then say,I TOLD YOU SO when a truly mediocre season happens.

We all know anyone saying I want him fired, but will cheer for success is full of crap IF they are convinced he can never be the messiah they want.  Now, if they want him fired, but also cheer for success in the hopes he can be the guy....that is different.  That is not how everyone in the fire Wojo camp is aligned and their own words here bear that out.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Lennys Tap

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #269 on: April 27, 2019, 10:23:25 AM »
If you want him gone, and have categorically made up your mind he is not the guy and can never be the guy....there are a number that have publicly stated that here....then the only way to potential success as fast as possible is him leaving or being fired.  That means wanting him to fail because getting fired as soon as possible means having little success.... if you are so convinced he cannot be the guy, any bit of success only kicks the can down the road so people can then say,I TOLD YOU SO when a truly mediocre season happens.

We all know anyone saying I want him fired, but will cheer for success is full of crap IF they are convinced he can never be the messiah they want.  Now, if they want him fired, but also cheer for success in the hopes he can be the guy....that is different.  That is not how everyone in the fire Wojo camp is aligned and their own words here bear that out.

Total, unmitigated BS.

I knew Bob Dukiet wasn't the answer pretty early on. Thought is was pretty much inevitable the powers that be would eventually come to the same conclusion. But I cheered for MU in every one of those games that REGRETTABLY proved me right, all the while hoping to be proven wrong.

I believe you're projecting here. If you're looking for anyone on this board to whom being right (or at least be able to argue the point) trumps everything - look in the mirror.

brewcity77

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #270 on: April 27, 2019, 10:33:55 AM »
Total, unmitigated BS.

I knew Bob Dukiet wasn't the answer pretty early on. Thought is was pretty much inevitable the powers that be would eventually come to the same conclusion. But I cheered for MU in every one of those games that REGRETTABLY proved me right, all the while hoping to be proven wrong.

I believe you're projecting here. If you're looking for anyone on this board to whom being right (or at least be able to argue the point) trumps everything - look in the mirror.

This is a better description of what I meant. Well said, Lennys. Cheering for the team to win while knowing the guy in charge isn't the one you want.
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willie warrior

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #271 on: April 27, 2019, 11:57:51 AM »
When some of those fans flat out say I hope we lose to get rid of him, that contradicts your claim.  You didn't say that, nor am I claiming you did.  There are fans that do.  Just as their are fans that wanted McCarthy and Packers to lose so he would get canned.  To think otherwise is silly.
Was Rodgers one of those fsns.
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Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #272 on: April 27, 2019, 12:10:43 PM »
Total, unmitigated BS.

I knew Bob Dukiet wasn't the answer pretty early on. Thought is was pretty much inevitable the powers that be would eventually come to the same conclusion. But I cheered for MU in every one of those games that REGRETTABLY proved me right, all the while hoping to be proven wrong.

I believe you're projecting here. If you're looking for anyone on this board to whom being right (or at least be able to argue the point) trumps everything - look in the mirror.

Spot on Lenny, chicos is an agitator only.  No original thoughts, nothing of value to add,  just a acomplete dbag at every turn
Political free board, plz leave your clever quips in your clever mind.

Cheeks

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #273 on: April 27, 2019, 12:24:55 PM »
Total, unmitigated BS.

I knew Bob Dukiet wasn't the answer pretty early on. Thought is was pretty much inevitable the powers that be would eventually come to the same conclusion. But I cheered for MU in every one of those games that REGRETTABLY proved me right, all the while hoping to be proven wrong.

I believe you're projecting here. If you're looking for anyone on this board to whom being right (or at least be able to argue the point) trumps everything - look in the mirror.

Then you didn't read what I said.  You fall into the latter group, not the former.

IF you know the guy is absolutely NOT the guy and will NEVER be the guy, why on earth would you want him to continue to damage the program and keep us from being elite, or whatever dream sequence people are thinking? Why?  It makes no sense. You would want it to end as soon as possible to get the next guy in, otherwise you are just perpetuating "mediocrity" or whatever ridiculous statement of the current program. 

It was like watching some IU fans pissed off that Crean won the Big Ten his second to last year, because it meant he was sticking around.  And of course those same fans bitching nonstop at his replacement and wanting him out now.  It's like watching some Americans pissed off at good economic news because it might mean a leader they hate sticks around.  This happens, a lot more than you care to admit. 

Now, if you think he might not be the guy, but you aren't sure....and you want the team to win in the hopes that you are wrong...that's different.  But logic defies someone that is absolutely convinced that the guy cannot get it done, thinks and DEMANDS we be better than we are and desires a change to also be cheering on the team knowing any success protracts the inevitable justice that fan deserves they are entitled to.  And all the while, those fans that want him out, will be silent or give golf claps during success, but will howl, bitch, complain and roll out the firing nonsense when things aren't great.

This is why ultimately those that want Wojo out will probably get their way, because he will see this, probably already feels it and will move on rather than put up with that crap.  Then we cycle through again and again and again and again.  So much fun.  We want stability, we have no patience for it and we cannot wait to kill off anyone that tries.  What a fanbase....we deserve our instability quite frankly.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 12:26:52 PM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #274 on: April 27, 2019, 12:30:44 PM »
This is a better description of what I meant. Well said, Lennys. Cheering for the team to win while knowing the guy in charge isn't the one you want.

That's different than what I am saying.  Not the guy you want, vs believing in all your core fiber that the guy cannot get it done and is only damaging the program that you think not only is better but should be better, why bother?  Why put the emotion investment, financial investment, etc....if you are so convinced he cannot get it done and any success just means he stays around longer...why?  Why would one put an ounce of energy into that....UNLESS they are also hopeful they are wrong, and he pulls it off?

This will turn out like it always does.  Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.  Final Four wasn't good enough because of how we lost.....to a wild swing of We cannot win unless the AD and President capitulate to the coach and can do whatever he wants.  Stability....who needs that.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire